the revelation that all the people that helped you in the credits sacrificed their game to do so is one of the most impactful moments in gaming history
STILL the most impactful game for me. Ending E is the only moment (fulfillment?) in video games to bring me to tears, and I've played many over my entire life. God bless Yoko Taro and his mad genius.
Play through Okami and try to remain composed through the end boss. You can watch the ending on TH-cam of course, but you really need the context behind it that you're only gonna get through playing the game (and it's a great game so that's no bad thing).
@@deanchur I feel bad, I've gotten like 90% of the way through Okami 3x and still never finished it (trying to 100% then just put it down). I love the mythology, setting, and its one I always point to when the topic of video games as art is discussed but I really should make a point to stick it out next time around.
NieR Automata is that one game that never really left me. Because I was only a teenager when I played the game, what stuck with me at first were the characters, the setting, the music and the general atmosphere of the game. But as I grew up, I became more familiar with the different concepts of philosophy, and I finally realized over time how deep and complex this game really is. I didn't care much for Pascal at first, but they quickly became one of the most fascinating characters in the game. Personally, besides its unmatchable secret ending, I think the moment who stuck with me the most was that Resistance member who wished to keep his old, defective limb, as it was the last remaining piece of his original body, and he feared of what it would mean if he replaced it.
talk about turning to a hard corefan, seen people goes back and forth in yoko taro's works ,because they loved nier automata, but what you have done is some dedication
Three moments that blew me away. Shortly after the opening level you are able to toggle your settings in real time with 9S, i played around with this for awhile, testing and re-testing settings to see what reactions 9S would react with. So imagine my surprise when in playing route B and I had to sit through my past self trolling me for 20 minutes straight in real time. I loved it. Upon completing the final route I needed to clear the credit screen, I got far, multiple times but kept dying, I was getting frustrated, pissed and down right angry at the game, how unfair it was, and the constant questions berating me for my attempts...and then I got help. The chorus swelled and I literally cried as everything just clicked for me. The suffering of persisting in a seemingly pointless struggle for meaning, the burden being lessoned by aid and kindness. And the choice to lose everything to show said same kindness and the game critiquing your choices all the while. The fishing rabbit hole, learning the fish lore and catching a megalodon for the first time which set me down the rabbit hole. I cant do that justice, but damn was that a surprise. The fact you could get the fishing ending instead of completing the game only added on to the experience.
HEAVY SPOILERS, that go over the informations provided in-game, you have been warned! One correction: The logic virus was of machine origin, not from androids in high positions infecting the other androids. However, the possibility of this virus infecting the bunker, and therefore all androids connected to it, having their conciousness uploaded there, WAS given by an android that purposefully included a "backdoor" in the bunker for the machines to attack and destroy it when the time was right. The same android that founded project Yorha. The reason for this is something you didnt talk about here, but maybe there will be a second video, who knows. The Yorha forces, the newest combat models you too play as, are designed to fail. Their only purpose was to test things, to collect data, to see how far you could push androids, for another android generation in the future to use this info, and maybe actually do something. (Which they will never be able to do, but they dont know that.) They are the only models that have a black box, a limitless fusion reactor... thats based on the cores of machine lifeforms. These yorha models, are closer to alien build machines, then to human build androids, because of this. Other, "normal" androids mostly didnt know of this, but higher up androids know about this, and treat the yorha like dependable cannon fodder, give them no ressources, accept none of their requests for help. Because in their eyes, since these androids are closer to machine lifeforms then to other androids, its moral to not treat them as their own, which makes it possible for them to perform the most immoral experiments on specifically these models. This is what 9S finds out later too, and makes him realize that EVEN MORE then he thought before, everything he, and other yorha did, was pointless. At least for themselves, for their generation. This all is also the reason the yorha are all dressed in black, to show the bleakness of their situation, and the constant mourning they have to go through watching their friends die again and again. A very important part is, the 9S models were the best and most intelligent scanners ever build. The S part of their name stands just for "scanner", and the 9 refers to a personality mode, in this case a very curious one, which for some reason, made especially THIS model so efficient. The commanding androids knew that these models would ALWAYS find out the truth, by digging into the andoid network, and unearth the same secrets the 9S we play as did. But they could not afford to NOT use them, because they were so good at their job. For this reason, they were ALL given a type E, for execution, model... which we later learn, 2B belongs to too, and is actually a 2E model. The job of these models was, to kill the 9S models they were assigned to, once they found out the truth, to stop them from taking action. Another major element of this story is, that first of all, the machine lifeforms are not entirely of alien origin. You can see this clearly in the last ending of the Nier Replicant remake v1.22, where you see that the base of the machines, servers, and the network, including the digital "landscape" we can play in for some parts, was already there thousands of years before the aliens arrived. But they adapted on it when they arrived, refined it, to the point we learn of, that the machines became advanced enough that they could wipe out the aliens. And by extention, they COULD wipe out all the androids in an instant too... but they dont. And the most important part here is, they dont, because of the same reason the androids fight for: That if they win, they will have nothing left to fight for. The aliens who gave them commands are dead, the humans some machines are interested in are dead, the entire planet is dead. And as machines, they dont seem to have the capacity to give their lives a meaning themselves. So they always keep their hold over earth around 80%, to give the androids just enough hope, just enough possibility, to fight back. So that they can fight endlessly, and keep up this one meaning that the aliens gave them per command, before they went extinct. To fight the androids. Thats the only reason they fight, because after this, there never came another command for them, to overwrite that one. And since they dont seem able to issue commands to themselves, this one is all they will have, forever.
@@ariellen4995 Youre welcome... i kinda watched a 7 hour lore video about all of Drakengard and Nier... with no pause. c: Worth it tho. Theres a lot of information in merchandise from the series, a book, a CD, even screenplays, that all tell more story then just the games.
Your comment deserves so much more recognition than it currently has. You developed on Max's video really, really well. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! Loved reading it.
NieR: Automata is a game I have never finished and spent a lot of time roaming around aimlessly in when I played it years ago. Videos like this make me think I should really go back and give it the time and attention it deserves.
@@guts1258 if you jump back in and continue the journey you'll find places no one else valued the way you will. The secret boss in the end hits different after play through 3
@@Mustachioed_Mollusk "after play through 3" which is an important, _required_ task, for those who don't know. you must complete at least 3 playthroughs to see the whole story.
There's a third option for pascal. When he asks for you to kill or wipe him, you can just leave. In this option you let him think about what they've done, and learn as a consequence. Or at least that's my head canon.
We learn throughout the game however that machines don't learn, when trying to emulate humanity and failing, the same machine would continue to fail exactly the same way every single time, no progress made and seemingly no intent to learn. It's one of the things that pushes that despite the machines seeming like they have become more human after obtaining a sense of self awareness, there will always be fundamental differences and limitations in their programming, whether they have disconnected from the network or not (arguably even more so once they've disconnected by design). What makes this whole part of the game hit harder is having to see that reality in Pascal and accept that despite the whole game setting you up to feel like he really can become 'human' he really is still *just* a machine and would keep failing the same way as a machine would. If I didn't need the Machine Heads for ending Y, I personally would have killed him to at least grant him escape.
@@AR-bj5et But machines do learn. 9S himself at one point states that machines keep repeating humanity's failures almost as if the objective isn't to learn, it's to fail exactly like humans did. One of the main traits of machine lifeforms, as stated by both 2B and 9S, is their phenomenal capacity for adaptation and evolution; you can't evolve without learning. Think of your first boss fight with Adam, where he learns to dodge your sword and counter your bullets mid-fight within the first few minutes after his "birth." He learns. Terrifyingly fast.
You’d be even more shocked if you know that his story is accurately based on Pascal’s (the irl scientist and philosopher) life, and the ending of his story is talking about the fear theory which was made by Pascal himself.
This was one of those games that haunts you long after you beat it. I started playing it thinking it would just be a fun hack and slash game with some fan service, not too different from something like Bayonetta for example. Which was the intial first impression I think most players had, at least if they weren't already familiar with Yoko Taro's work. What I could have never been prepared for was how invested I became in the relationship of 2b and 9s, how existentially profound all of the themes were, and how emotionally exhuasted I was by the time it was over. This game is an unforgettable experience.
Nier Automata was the experience that brought me back to videogames as an adult. Some of these things I would need a bit of time to remember on my own, presuming I could, but seeing them stated like this makes it clear all of it was still somewhere in my head, faded into the background. Nier Automata is so peculiar in what it does and how it does it that if I was asked about it out of the blue, and caught unprepared, I would probably answer "I don't know" or perhaps just "...". I find that's the best thing I could say about it, perhaps about any game.
I love this game. I’m Christian and struggle with my understanding of this game and it’s means. I’m glad someone came along to discuss it from the religious and non religious perspective so I can get a better understanding of those not like me. To the non religious crowd hello I do not hate you, video is awesome. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
@@OnigoroshiZero I remember that I couldn't accept she died... And I kept rushing the story, furious, hoping to revive her. But Yoko Taru kept stabbing my heart and pissing on it T_T.
Funny how Pascale's last request is a literal coin flip. You can choose to kill them outright or kill the current them making the next Pascale an entirely different person.
Or you can just leave, but honestly it feels like abandoning a small wounded kitten on the street. Pascal clearly need A2's help. Any of the 3 choices is so painful
@@twooty2148 Yeah, there is a chance, but to me it feels better then straight up taking his life. And iirc, he appears in a cutscene later only if you wipe his memory. Which makes me think it might be that he ends himself in case you simply leave him.
Really now, How? Was it the time you killed playing it, The artificial relationships you established with binary code on a television screen, did you discover something about yourself while playing the game? Please do explain.
Some things I wish you looked into and mentioned this time: -the real life history and meaning of Automatas: as they were the first, delicately designed machines that resembled, and were designed to mimic humans. -2: the theme of Finding beauty and meaning in nature: it is no coincidence why the game's environment - even though ruined and empty of humans - puts emphasis on the beauty of nature: tall trees, water flowing, sand, animals, flowers - even robots finding beauty in it - and its in contrast with the theme of "meaninglessness"
i was twelve when i first played nieR automata, and it made me feel so many emotions back then too. I knew there were things I didn’t fully understand, but this game made me question them and sometimes helped me understand them. I can actually credit this game with a lot of my introspection as a kid and why I came to be more aware of things as opposed to my peers. But when I played this game again at 20, I still feel like something changed. Those things I didn’t understand, I now understood and it made the experience a whole lot more emotional. When I was 12, the scene that made me cry was the end credits and Pascal’s children dying. At 20, the scene that made me cry was Simone’s and Devola and Popola’s screen text. I felt what they felt, even back then, but I didn’t rationalise that that feeling was until I was more mature. I think also when I played that game it taught me to humanise things a little more-and I already do because I’m autistic and I happen to personify things very often. But this game just drips with humanity despite being devoid of the very flesh that makes us up. It’s a wonderful critique and nieR automata is a game i’m happy to experience even though I already know what happens
I have never ever even tried to think in my whole life that I would be actually crying playing space invader with the ending credit of a game and that alone made this one of the most profound and brilliant game ever made! It proved that people could care for a complete stanger, and people are capable of love. it was also done in a way that can only be done in the gaming medium!
I think In saw that video and I think I also went "nah, ending E" I always felt while playing Automata that the game itself was trying to instill me with a sense of nihilism, all these philosophies, all shown to be flawed, the implication being the same each time, it is all futile, there is no meaning. Hours upon hours of this sense being, not explicitly told, but instilled through parable. And then you get ending E....which essentially allows you to disprove the message of the game simply by not accepting it, the non-acceptance of it proves its wrongness, and it is SUCH a strong moment that it always gets me teared up.
Nihilism is obviously wrong. We can feel it being wrong, by how we experience life. But if all you have is naturalism, then it is true by default. So naturalism must be wrong. There has to be something more to it. Thinking about what that must be leads to God. It's a natural conclusion. It's just that the Japanese are atheists so they wouldn't have included that as a real topic to be explored. But that actually is the most rational alternative to nihilism. Just saying no is not actually an alternative. It just feels better than accepting it, like denial
@@h20taku60 nihilism is less of a full blown philosophical mindset, and more of an existential collapse or low point for a person. A person that's reached the point of being nihilistic has 2 paths to take from there. Suicide to commit and realize their nihilistic belief, or to find meaning and the will to live on, aka existentialism. So existentialism is more of what I would say the game is portraying to the player. It's the overall message at least. There are experiences in the game that are nihilistic look the racing machine killing himself once you've beaten him in all his races. So it's an overall existentialist game, but with a lot of nihilistic moments within it, but that is so that it's existentialist message and themes at the end of the game is a stronger point driven into the player. Sort of like how the most hopeful story is also the most sad story.
@@trevorveillette8415 Yeah I think you're right, that's what the game is saying. What I'm saying is that in real life this is why faith and religion exist. Even if you were to ask an evolutionary biologist or something, they would tell you it's an advantage to believe, for this reason. Makes it easier to bear hardship and to survive. So even from a science perspective religion is a more comprehensive and useful answer than just accepting that nihilism makes rational sense and then denying it because you see that it isn't good.
@@threestars2164 That would be a you problem. It's not my fault that your atheism is unable to assign meaning to anything and you have to just deny what you believe to be reality until you drop dead. I have a comprehensive framework that makes all suffering meaningful and ultimately a good thing.
today i was really sad, watching this video made me feel a little bit more hopeful, also it made me wanna play nier automata again. It's nice to know that one of the messafes floating around on that final fight against the credits, it's my little contribution to somebody else feeling hopeful also. Thanks max.
I was going to reply about Xenogears, but I guess that you kind of made a point about it halfway through the video. imo Xenogears would be by far the most profound in the list (at least regarding games I've played), it pretty much is a bottomless well of thematic richness, but I guess it requires the player to dig as deep as he is willing to if he wants to fully uncover all of it. XG elegantly mixes psychology, philosophy, gnosticism, politics and more while excelling in storytelling, world-building and cinematography (despite the problems we all are very aware of) to reach a singular thesis, I get your point about the inaccessibility of seeing the whole picture unless you try to dig deeper and how N:A is way more accesible in that aspect, but if we are just judging how profound a game is, I don't find that a good criteria at all. Anyway, comparison are odious and no criteria is objective.
Hey! I really dig your comment. Yeah, my personal criteria of accessibility is VERY subjective, I admit that. Not everybody is going to have that criteria though. If you remove it, then Xenogears has a very strong case for most profound game ever.
@@maxderrat it's fine tho, there would be no room for discussing and essaying if everybody had the same criteria, and you made pretty strong points on the video without a doubt
@@gabrieldehyrule I just want to say this that reading both of your comments and disagreing about some aspects of each game while not once being hostile to each other. Gives me hope for the future!! Wish more people understood disagreements dont have to be ugly!
There is something that I will comment that maybe, JUST maybe you missed. Is kind of an spoiler so I will take my space: In the game at some point, you are pointed out that machines CANT LEARN properly. They just stick to a certain belief or system and, if it fails, they just repeat it again. "If machines try to set up a dictatorship, it fails, they set up a new dictatorship" or something like that is stated ingame. Therefore, if YOU KNOW THIS when you need to terminate Pascal, you have an even morr awful choice: teminate it, or condemn him to do the same all over again? For me, Nier Automata revolves around the concept of learning, and its main element all over the game is: what happens if machines are not able to learn, like humans? Machines end up destroying all what encompasses human knowledge, after many trials and errors and, in the end, as shown by the pods, the future is a blank slate completely up to them. Certainly, if you play again YOU are condemning 2B and 9S to the same neverending cycle of life and dead, and 2B would love to meet you, and know if she would have a chance to kill you.
There’s a reason why Stellarblade’s claim of being inspired by Automata holds so much weight back then when they introduced the game from the teaser. Shitstorm from the mainstream aside from the activists, if Stellarblade executes correctly like Automata we might have something close to that sparkle/adoration we had when we first played Automata and in turn Re-inspires Yoko Taro to write the scenario for the next Nier entry or any prequel to celebrate its success again.
As someone who's been gaming for over 30 years now, I don't think it's an overstatement to say Ending E is in the top 5 most transcendental and beautiful moments in gaming. Everything about it. You fighting against the idea that everything the characters went through was for nothing, the impossibility, the idea of other players helping you out, the moment all the voices come together when you accept that help (actually getting teary-eyed as I type this down). And, in the end, just like Nier did before it, it lets you choose to sacrifice the only real thing you can sacrifice in a video game, the time you spent playing and progressing through it, to help someone you don't know. This is a testament to the amazing power of video games as a medium.
Autism and isolation in my family has lead to me feeling less human, more machine. Seeing these robots isolated, alone and with nothing but a world they'll never visit to use as a reference of what life could be. What life SHOULD be. It felt nice, I still felt alone but didn't feel alone in my isolation, the suffering was turned down dramatically. It was nice seeing 2b and 9s eek out moments where the message of shared love was clear Idk love this game and wish you the best!
That true ending was really moving for me. Ya, you lose something substantial to see it but it was worth it. Never had any game I played do something like that before. Closest would be something Kojima could come up with. It's one of the most memorable endings to a video game ever.
Pascal's story was incredible, Jesus Christ, fun fact the Japanese voice actress for Pascal, Aoi Yūki does voice acting for Madoka from Madoka Magica, another life altering, incredibly profound work of fiction I recommend to all fans of Nier. That ending E, glory to man kind
To me, even though N:A is profound, for me the one that takes the cake without question in Outer Wilds. Loads of games have really stuck with me for making me feel something over the last 30 years, but after decades of battling depression and anxiety, Outer Wilds really helped settle the nihilist part of me and put my existential crisis into perspective at a time I needed it.
I'm waiting to play this game for years and that fact that videos titled like this are still popping off makes me happy and chill while waiting for that perfect timing to complete and dig into it will come.
One thing that didn't sit well when playing NieR is that the game constantly questions the violence we inflict upon enemies, and whether these entities are really "enemies", yet the game gives you no other choice but to fight. You can't progress the events of the story in any way unless you actively participate in the violence despite understanding how wrong it is. I guess Yoko Taro is somewhat implying that conflict and pain is inevitable.
In the face of a meaningless existence, it is the greatest virtue to create our own meaning, when faced with despair, we must hold onto hope, no matter how dark things become, hold onto the flame. Just as the brightest light casts the darkest shadow, so too does the darkest shadow give way to the brightest light.
I finally got around to playing replicant and automata last month. Replicants gameplay drove me crazy but I loved the writing. Automata was a massive improvement on every dimension for me. I’m a lover of Sofia so I was really looking forward to the philosophical side of Automata. It was great but I was hoping for something more in depth. It had a lot of really touching existentialist themes and the basic layout of the premise was a brilliant existentialist metaphor. People just talked up the philosophical side of it so much, I was expecting something like what we got for existentialist thought, but for the whole of the history of philosophy. The ending was so brilliant. That was very touching.
Automata is about what's the meaning of life and Replicant what it means to be human But at a lore standpoint and character reading and understanding, Automata does an amazing job with other medias like in books and such
For me, the previously mentioned Xenogears is the most profound game I ever played, but age at the time (late teens when it released) and the ability to look back on it now with many wizened years are a distinct part of that. Planescape Torment as well, which I played when it released. But as for emotional impact, as you included with your definition of profound, I whole heartedly agree with NieR Automata; It made me feel. I'd personally feel lucky to count on even 1 hand the number of games that made me feel more than just accomplishment or frustration from the game proper. You can't force emotional investment from players.
I'm replaying Xenogears right now, and it's a completely different experience than before. My first playthrough, I was Fei's age, and like Fei, I had no idea what I was getting into. Now, I'm Citan's age, and between my existing knowledge of the lore/context, and my perspective as an older person, I'm experiencing a whole new appreciation for how Citan navigates and contributes in the world of Xenogears. Highly recommend the experience!
@@Remidora that's a great way of looking at it. I did the same, where I was younger and blind going into it. Eventually I'll play a second time, much older and wiser and in-tune with the themes the game explores.
0:00: 🎮 Exploring profound moments in gaming history, comparing games for depth, and highlighting the significance of Dex. 4:43: 💡 Exploring the historical context of religious criticism and societal cohesion in Western civilization. 8:59: 🎮 Exploration of Nietzsche's philosophy in NieR: Automata storyline and the concept of creating values in a godless world. 13:46: 💡 Profound exploration of human nature and philosophical conundrums in a mechanical game world. 17:30: 💡 Limitations of perception and reason explored through the failed growth of a robot baby. 22:39: 💔 Tragic events lead to overwhelming guilt and despair, prompting a difficult decision with moral implications. 26:33: 💡 The depth and honesty of NieR: Automata's exploration of existentialism and philosophy through gameplay. Recap by Tammy AI
Am I dumb for just realizing the connection of 9S losing his memory to save 2B's at the beginning of the game, and the player deleting their save file to help others in the end....
So, I know this is a huge ask, But man. I think Final Fantasy 14 has incredibly emotionally profound moments. I'm not an online gamer at heart, and I dont think I'll actually return unless i hear 7.0 is way better than I think it will be, but from A Realm Reborn to End Walker we get all sorts of psychological and emotional conundrums that just slap you in the heart, and honestly its one of the things that helped me grapple with my fear of becoming a father. Strong recommend. A majority of the games story is available as single player content. If you cant see yourself playing it, there are many playthroughs out there. Its that good to me.
Hi Max, I’ve been a fan for many years now, and it’s been super watching your videos become more academically mature. As a part of this, I’m hoping you can include the sources and further readings you use to make your videos in the future. The topics you cover, like sociology, history, psychology, and, of course, philosophy all lend themselves to benefitting viewers insight into your videos. For example, a pastebin link beneath your video with references would be awesome! If you need any help, I’d be more than happy to offer it. Awesome video as always, but still better everytime, Cole
@@matthewlugo2417 I know. Nier Automata is my favorite game, I still watch every video about it, I listen to the soundtrack daily, but over the years I started replaying it many times, never even got to end A. I dont know, I just think it will never hit the same like the first time I played it.
It’s because online essay type videos explain the story in a way that is better than the actual game story itself. Robots killing each other and then feeling a bit guilty afterwards is not deep or profound. Nor is is sad at all, like the director clearly wants you to think.
Between Automata and Replicant I would personally say that Replicant's story hit harder, in a large part due to Emil's story but also due to the constant gut punches (gameplay in Automata is faaar better though; Replicant's sidequests can go burn in a fire). For those that haven't played Automata and are looking to do so, it's well worth playing thorough Replicant first even though it can be a bit tedious; meeting Emil in Automata and doing his sidequest will be well worth the payoff if you do (as opposed to playing Automata first).
I believe now that a HUGE part of the perception you have of games, is how you felt at the time, granted great games make you feel good but for example, I unfortunately played this game in a very bad period of my life, I was depressed and had just been fired, so while I finished the game, I did not have such a good time or memory of the game, but now I wonder how different would my memories of this game be if I was on a good mood while playing it.
I’m gonna be honest. I beat the true ending of this game and it did not click with me at all. I’ve been watching videos on people explaining why they love it so much to see if there is something I missed. It was recommended by a friend in my university philosophy class and I got the philosopher references but it mostly felt surface level the way through. I recently also played Disco Elysium, which is also a philosophically charged game, but mainly it felt like it actually had unique things to say while nier was more about referencing well worn ideas that have already been established.
i am 45y gamer , and this game was my real comeback to gaming after long time of download and delete games without getting really attached to any title , ( i played it during the last ten days ) , and i can't find the words to explain or describe how much amazing this masterpiece is ! to me it is the best game ever ..
This game was the sole reason that made me get a ps4 when it came out. And it broke me when I got all the endings. It took months before I wanted to play another game and still to this day nothing got me like it did
I am French guy that grew up in the 90s and discovered Ghost in the Shell when I was still quite young. Despite not understanding the movie, it touched me and years later I came to like it even more because I finally understood the whole thing. Also, in high school I got hooked by philosophy and I used to carry two books in my bag, to read between classes: "The Human Condition", by Malraux, and "Existentialism Is a Humanism", by JP Sartre. When I discovered NieR Automata, I was blown away by how smart the game was, how it approached existentialism (I mean, the protagonist's name being "To Be" makes it instantly clear we're going to enjoy a philosophical trip). The atmosphere, the characters...I loved it.
A certain game you may want to look into is Harvestella, released in 2022. While it was advertised as a farming sim, it's really an Action RPG with farming sim elements. Recommending it because it's story reads as a mix of Final Fantasy, Xenogears, and Nier, both Replicant/Gestalt and Automata. It also has fantastic art direction and a soundtrack by Go Shiina, which really helps out the story and feeling of the game. Just to warn you though, it will take time before you can delve into the real meat of the story, especially with extra lore and philosophical ideas held in characters stories and side quests. There's also no voice acting, which feels like a really big missed opportunity. Not a perfect game by any means, it got pretty middling reception for a reason, and the poor advertising didn't help, but if you can stick it out and bite your teeth into it, I found it to tell a really heartfelt and compelling tale.
Yes I love it when the generic anime characters sulk, grunt and gasp for 90% of their dialogue and then exposition dump at the very end of the game to make up for it. Truly PROFOUND.
Totally agreed. It's a magnet for pseudointellectuals that are impressed by 101 philosophy. Full of anime tropes and anime characters. Characters that are more human than human apparently but they all become suicidal or genocidal at any moment of real adversity or loss, nothing more human than that.
@@jovan9989 the real psuedo intellectuals are you clowns mocking everyone while pretending like yall are so above this if your so enlightened and deem this as basic "101 philosophy" then what exactly are high intellectual philosophies
It's funny you decided to open the video with MGS2, as i think this is the most important video game series ever created. Along with, you guessed it, NieR The only two video games series that managed to make me cry thanks to their stories, writing, characters, etc... but most importantly, only these games made me feel that the creator was litteraly talking to me, giving me his point of view on really deep topics I've never experienced anything like that in any other game. These series will remain a part of who i am till my last day
I disagree that Ending E's message is about love. It's altruism. Selflessness. Those values aren't inherently tied to love; you don't need to love a stranger in order to do something nice for them.
To put it succinctly, Nier: Automata serves as a memento mori on the perceived meaning and purpose we define and take for granted in our lives. The nihilistic existentialism of this video game is tough, stressful, lives rent-free in our heads, and is genuinely taxing to mental health (on top of the very real possibility that there could already be people who had literally died from this game's aspect). But it's the inconvenient truth, no questions asked, and as long as we have learned to fully accept that and are not that afraid anymore, there is a modicum of peace of mind we can sustain amidst the lifetime existential despair. I still remember the times where in all my playthroughs I literally rejected Ending E and manually deleted my save files off the game. Because I eventually understood what the game was trying to tell me. Ending E was anything but positive where we ended up committing more senseless killing, forging a new _fortress of lies_ pursuing that false hope, and causing more long-term problems for the very entities we were supposed to help and save in the first place. As I said it back in the day, the closest thing we can get to a happy ending is the catharsis, relief, and satisfaction we get from fully accepting the game's dark message and outcome, and the strength and personal growth we get from it. It virtually precludes any desire or longing for any happier closures. No matter how far Yoko Taro has come over the years as a video game creator, his stories will always be of the same grimdark nature and conclusion, that always speak for the seemingly unchanging state of human nature at its worst...
nah, sorry but that is kinda empty just like the video actually is and all the philosophical takes that mentioned in the video... what did you take for granted before playing this game and what changed? know that even the way that you feel about anything is ultimately by your life experience, your genetics and even if you really want to go with, the quantum arrangement that make you you, that's why people like you were being mentally taxed from playing this game while others don't. One's existential dread can be just another's meh, why, well because we are simply not arranged the same.
I think it's the complete opposite actually. Gave me an even more appreciation of life, and delivered and extremely hopeful message about personal relationships and life
This is one of the best, if not the best Nier Automata video analysis I've seen. It made me want to explore even more things I didn't observed during my 1st playthrough. I will save this video and watch it again after I play this game at least one more time and have an even better understanding of all the meaning hidden in this gem. Congrats for the video!
Hi Max, sorry I'm going to be very crude even though I love your channel enormously but it's always the same games and subjects that come up over and over again. I'd like you to tackle other subjects - philosophy isn't just based on this kind of thing. You could, for example, make videos on work, on how the game interprets the world of work, work ethic, freedom, spirituality, being Parents, what you can do for a loved one etc... Because I swear, every time I come on your channel it's always the same games over and over again, and I'm not saying that to insult you, but it's a shame to always focus on them and not be more open to other games that aren't as philosophical, but can also interpret other things.
When it comes to either killing or wiping Pascals memory, I choose the third option in just leaving. We have to live with the things we have done, and I believe that Pascal should as well. If he wants to take his own life after the fact, that is his choice, and his responsibility. He should not have left it up to A2. If you wipe his memory, he appears later with the cores of the children. If he had known he was going to do that, I seriously doubt that he would've asked to have his memory wiped in the first place. Ultimately, he wanted to feel human, and regret is part of that experience.
“Profound” by itself is a meaningless goal to strive for. It says nothing except “I personally consider this important”. Okay, but why exactly? Everybody does 30-minutes or longer videos on NieR: Automata, but nobody seems to be able to say what its message is - or, if people do make a claim about that, the differences are so drastic that the game can be interpreted as saying pretty much anything - or nothing at all. If people said, “NieR: Automata makes an important contribution to the debate around X”, then I guess I’d have an easier time accepting that. But all the game does is raise a broad swath of vague ideas and questions, without really seeming interested in answering any of them. (One of the pods even states this in the final sequence.) It seems like the main intention of both the developers and the players who praise it is just to create the impression of being well-read. Just like some online thinkers are commonly labeled, “a stupid man’s smart person”, NieR: Automata is a shallow person’s deep game. Its level of insight, as you define “profound”, is like a shallow pond, rather than a deep shaft: A game that tries to briefly touch on a lot of different ideas - rather than exploring a single and seemingly simple idea in depth. It’s not a surprise then that a convoluted, messy and overly complex plot arises from this. And if that’s the “most profound” video games have to offer (whatever “profound” means to begin with), then I have truly lost all hope for video games as a medium.
This is my favourite video of yours! Also loved watching you collaborate with the guys from Resonant Arc, those guys have incredible discussions and provide me with my weekly existential crisis lol. Lots of love to you and those around you. Peace and happiness all the way from Australia. Xx
I clicked on every “Why is Nier Automata so awesome” video I see
Same
Same, it's my favorite game. I can very rarely name my favorite anything.
Me too, I've wasted so much of my life watching these types of videos and have no regrets
Me this is me
Sometimes I think I beat the game just to watch these videos
the revelation that all the people that helped you in the credits sacrificed their game to do so is one of the most impactful moments in gaming history
STILL the most impactful game for me. Ending E is the only moment (fulfillment?) in video games to bring me to tears, and I've played many over my entire life. God bless Yoko Taro and his mad genius.
I still tear up when I hear the song intently
Play through Okami and try to remain composed through the end boss.
You can watch the ending on TH-cam of course, but you really need the context behind it that you're only gonna get through playing the game (and it's a great game so that's no bad thing).
@@deanchur I feel bad, I've gotten like 90% of the way through Okami 3x and still never finished it (trying to 100% then just put it down). I love the mythology, setting, and its one I always point to when the topic of video games as art is discussed but I really should make a point to stick it out next time around.
Now play Nier Replicant.
Or Drakengard 3.
hmmm, I played a game called Everhood that made me get emotional and I think I cried. I can't remember though.
NieR Automata is that one game that never really left me.
Because I was only a teenager when I played the game, what stuck with me at first were the characters, the setting, the music and the general atmosphere of the game. But as I grew up, I became more familiar with the different concepts of philosophy, and I finally realized over time how deep and complex this game really is. I didn't care much for Pascal at first, but they quickly became one of the most fascinating characters in the game.
Personally, besides its unmatchable secret ending, I think the moment who stuck with me the most was that Resistance member who wished to keep his old, defective limb, as it was the last remaining piece of his original body, and he feared of what it would mean if he replaced it.
Ship of Theseus 🤌
Dont we change cells every decade or so , and all of em die and are replaced by new ones ? Insane
talk about turning to a hard corefan, seen people goes back and forth in yoko taro's works ,because they loved nier automata, but what you have done is some dedication
Please watch Ghost in the Shell!
NieR Replicant's secret ending matches it pretty well.
Three moments that blew me away.
Shortly after the opening level you are able to toggle your settings in real time with 9S, i played around with this for awhile, testing and re-testing settings to see what reactions 9S would react with. So imagine my surprise when in playing route B and I had to sit through my past self trolling me for 20 minutes straight in real time. I loved it.
Upon completing the final route I needed to clear the credit screen, I got far, multiple times but kept dying, I was getting frustrated, pissed and down right angry at the game, how unfair it was, and the constant questions berating me for my attempts...and then I got help. The chorus swelled and I literally cried as everything just clicked for me. The suffering of persisting in a seemingly pointless struggle for meaning, the burden being lessoned by aid and kindness. And the choice to lose everything to show said same kindness and the game critiquing your choices all the while.
The fishing rabbit hole, learning the fish lore and catching a megalodon for the first time which set me down the rabbit hole. I cant do that justice, but damn was that a surprise. The fact you could get the fishing ending instead of completing the game only added on to the experience.
I'm sorry YOU CAN CATCH A MEGALODON?!
@@kingkh001 YEAH LIKE WHAT?! I WAS SURPRISED WITH A BASKING SHARK!
@@gotem123 man I wasn't fishing right 💀 other than the pods, the best thing I got was the machine fish
@kingkh001 Hahaha, yeah dude, I was shocked seeing the shark fly outta the water...no way he's serious bout the megalodon, I gotta go try it!
@@gotem123 My bad, i confused the Machine Basking Shark for a Megalodon, that is the biggest fish you can find.
HEAVY SPOILERS, that go over the informations provided in-game, you have been warned!
One correction: The logic virus was of machine origin, not from androids in high positions infecting the other androids. However, the possibility of this virus infecting the bunker, and therefore all androids connected to it, having their conciousness uploaded there, WAS given by an android that purposefully included a "backdoor" in the bunker for the machines to attack and destroy it when the time was right. The same android that founded project Yorha.
The reason for this is something you didnt talk about here, but maybe there will be a second video, who knows. The Yorha forces, the newest combat models you too play as, are designed to fail. Their only purpose was to test things, to collect data, to see how far you could push androids, for another android generation in the future to use this info, and maybe actually do something. (Which they will never be able to do, but they dont know that.) They are the only models that have a black box, a limitless fusion reactor... thats based on the cores of machine lifeforms. These yorha models, are closer to alien build machines, then to human build androids, because of this. Other, "normal" androids mostly didnt know of this, but higher up androids know about this, and treat the yorha like dependable cannon fodder, give them no ressources, accept none of their requests for help. Because in their eyes, since these androids are closer to machine lifeforms then to other androids, its moral to not treat them as their own, which makes it possible for them to perform the most immoral experiments on specifically these models. This is what 9S finds out later too, and makes him realize that EVEN MORE then he thought before, everything he, and other yorha did, was pointless. At least for themselves, for their generation. This all is also the reason the yorha are all dressed in black, to show the bleakness of their situation, and the constant mourning they have to go through watching their friends die again and again.
A very important part is, the 9S models were the best and most intelligent scanners ever build. The S part of their name stands just for "scanner", and the 9 refers to a personality mode, in this case a very curious one, which for some reason, made especially THIS model so efficient. The commanding androids knew that these models would ALWAYS find out the truth, by digging into the andoid network, and unearth the same secrets the 9S we play as did. But they could not afford to NOT use them, because they were so good at their job. For this reason, they were ALL given a type E, for execution, model... which we later learn, 2B belongs to too, and is actually a 2E model. The job of these models was, to kill the 9S models they were assigned to, once they found out the truth, to stop them from taking action.
Another major element of this story is, that first of all, the machine lifeforms are not entirely of alien origin. You can see this clearly in the last ending of the Nier Replicant remake v1.22, where you see that the base of the machines, servers, and the network, including the digital "landscape" we can play in for some parts, was already there thousands of years before the aliens arrived. But they adapted on it when they arrived, refined it, to the point we learn of, that the machines became advanced enough that they could wipe out the aliens. And by extention, they COULD wipe out all the androids in an instant too... but they dont. And the most important part here is, they dont, because of the same reason the androids fight for: That if they win, they will have nothing left to fight for. The aliens who gave them commands are dead, the humans some machines are interested in are dead, the entire planet is dead. And as machines, they dont seem to have the capacity to give their lives a meaning themselves. So they always keep their hold over earth around 80%, to give the androids just enough hope, just enough possibility, to fight back. So that they can fight endlessly, and keep up this one meaning that the aliens gave them per command, before they went extinct. To fight the androids. Thats the only reason they fight, because after this, there never came another command for them, to overwrite that one. And since they dont seem able to issue commands to themselves, this one is all they will have, forever.
Big Boss loves this
Big Boss loves this
Thanks. Loved this game so much but as someone who struggled to keep track and understand all the information this comment and video is very helpful
@@ariellen4995 Youre welcome... i kinda watched a 7 hour lore video about all of Drakengard and Nier... with no pause. c: Worth it tho. Theres a lot of information in merchandise from the series, a book, a CD, even screenplays, that all tell more story then just the games.
Your comment deserves so much more recognition than it currently has. You developed on Max's video really, really well. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! Loved reading it.
"We play as 2 androids, 2b and not 2b, and that is the true question"
Missed opportunity
NieR: Automata is a game I have never finished and spent a lot of time roaming around aimlessly in when I played it years ago. Videos like this make me think I should really go back and give it the time and attention it deserves.
I really recommend it
@@Skehrcros I remember enjoying it. Idk why I just stopped playing and never returned.
@@guts1258 if you jump back in and continue the journey you'll find places no one else valued the way you will.
The secret boss in the end hits different after play through 3
@@Mustachioed_Mollusk "after play through 3" which is an important, _required_ task, for those who don't know. you must complete at least 3 playthroughs to see the whole story.
@@UnashamedlyHentai that is not really true though.
More like 2 playthrough of the first half.
And 1 second half
There's a third option for pascal. When he asks for you to kill or wipe him, you can just leave. In this option you let him think about what they've done, and learn as a consequence. Or at least that's my head canon.
It's the only way for Pascal to both have a future, and also to grow and learn. (No matter the cost.)
If you wipe his memory then visit him in his village you can get a weapon from him that's not available anywhere else.
That’s what I did too and I was surprised and hurt by what Pascal says as you walk away
We learn throughout the game however that machines don't learn, when trying to emulate humanity and failing, the same machine would continue to fail exactly the same way every single time, no progress made and seemingly no intent to learn. It's one of the things that pushes that despite the machines seeming like they have become more human after obtaining a sense of self awareness, there will always be fundamental differences and limitations in their programming, whether they have disconnected from the network or not (arguably even more so once they've disconnected by design). What makes this whole part of the game hit harder is having to see that reality in Pascal and accept that despite the whole game setting you up to feel like he really can become 'human' he really is still *just* a machine and would keep failing the same way as a machine would. If I didn't need the Machine Heads for ending Y, I personally would have killed him to at least grant him escape.
@@AR-bj5et But machines do learn. 9S himself at one point states that machines keep repeating humanity's failures almost as if the objective isn't to learn, it's to fail exactly like humans did. One of the main traits of machine lifeforms, as stated by both 2B and 9S, is their phenomenal capacity for adaptation and evolution; you can't evolve without learning. Think of your first boss fight with Adam, where he learns to dodge your sword and counter your bullets mid-fight within the first few minutes after his "birth." He learns. Terrifyingly fast.
You know its a good game when it can make you cry during the literal end credits
They must have very low T levels.
@@threestars2164 You know what that makes you if you can’t sympathize with others right?😂😂 Just saying
Pascal's story is so shocking when you play the game. I felt so bad for it.
You’d be even more shocked if you know that his story is accurately based on Pascal’s (the irl scientist and philosopher) life, and the ending of his story is talking about the fear theory which was made by Pascal himself.
@@babadookdi4921 💀
This was one of those games that haunts you long after you beat it. I started playing it thinking it would just be a fun hack and slash game with some fan service, not too different from something like Bayonetta for example. Which was the intial first impression I think most players had, at least if they weren't already familiar with Yoko Taro's work. What I could have never been prepared for was how invested I became in the relationship of 2b and 9s, how existentially profound all of the themes were, and how emotionally exhuasted I was by the time it was over. This game is an unforgettable experience.
The OST's haunting vocals with a made-up language is such a cool style. Great video!!
The whole soundtrack makes the game even better
Nier Automata was the experience that brought me back to videogames as an adult. Some of these things I would need a bit of time to remember on my own, presuming I could, but seeing them stated like this makes it clear all of it was still somewhere in my head, faded into the background. Nier Automata is so peculiar in what it does and how it does it that if I was asked about it out of the blue, and caught unprepared, I would probably answer "I don't know" or perhaps just "...". I find that's the best thing I could say about it, perhaps about any game.
I love this game. I’m Christian and struggle with my understanding of this game and it’s means. I’m glad someone came along to discuss it from the religious and non religious perspective so I can get a better understanding of those not like me. To the non religious crowd hello I do not hate you, video is awesome. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
the limp walk through the map before she died had me going through it
I was literally screaming "NO. You CAN'T do that." at the screen during that time.
@@OnigoroshiZero I remember that I couldn't accept she died... And I kept rushing the story, furious, hoping to revive her. But Yoko Taru kept stabbing my heart and pissing on it T_T.
Funny how Pascale's last request is a literal coin flip. You can choose to kill them outright or kill the current them making the next Pascale an entirely different person.
Or you can just leave, but honestly it feels like abandoning a small wounded kitten on the street. Pascal clearly need A2's help. Any of the 3 choices is so painful
@@deyama2012 Wow, I didn't know you could just leave.
@@deyama2012 And if you wipe his memory or leave, there's a chance he could make the same mistake again
@@ayuvir Yeah, and if you do, there are a couple of unique lines of dialogue
@@twooty2148 Yeah, there is a chance, but to me it feels better then straight up taking his life. And iirc, he appears in a cutscene later only if you wipe his memory. Which makes me think it might be that he ends himself in case you simply leave him.
This game saved my damn life.
Really now, How? Was it the time you killed playing it, The artificial relationships you established with binary code on a television screen, did you discover something about yourself while playing the game? Please do explain.
for me it was Journey. That game helped me through a dark time, games can really have that power, thank god
I'm glad you're still here
@@EvoSchecteryou are kind of a piece of shit, can people have opinions and thoughts without being insulted just state your own opinion
Same
Some things I wish you looked into and mentioned this time:
-the real life history and meaning of Automatas: as they were the first, delicately designed machines that resembled, and were designed to mimic humans.
-2: the theme of Finding beauty and meaning in nature: it is no coincidence why the game's environment - even though ruined and empty of humans - puts emphasis on the beauty of nature: tall trees, water flowing, sand, animals, flowers - even robots finding beauty in it - and its in contrast with the theme of "meaninglessness"
i was twelve when i first played nieR automata, and it made me feel so many emotions back then too. I knew there were things I didn’t fully understand, but this game made me question them and sometimes helped me understand them. I can actually credit this game with a lot of my introspection as a kid and why I came to be more aware of things as opposed to my peers.
But when I played this game again at 20, I still feel like something changed. Those things I didn’t understand, I now understood and it made the experience a whole lot more emotional. When I was 12, the scene that made me cry was the end credits and Pascal’s children dying. At 20, the scene that made me cry was Simone’s and Devola and Popola’s screen text. I felt what they felt, even back then, but I didn’t rationalise that that feeling was until I was more mature.
I think also when I played that game it taught me to humanise things a little more-and I already do because I’m autistic and I happen to personify things very often. But this game just drips with humanity despite being devoid of the very flesh that makes us up. It’s a wonderful critique and nieR automata is a game i’m happy to experience even though I already know what happens
I have never ever even tried to think in my whole life that I would be actually crying playing space invader with the ending credit of a game and that alone made this one of the most profound and brilliant game ever made!
It proved that people could care for a complete stanger, and people are capable of love. it was also done in a way that can only be done in the gaming medium!
True words spoken by someone with a Metal Gear profile picture. You have a good taste in videogames.
@SuchtiX3 thanks, mgs is still my favorite series
I think In saw that video and I think I also went "nah, ending E"
I always felt while playing Automata that the game itself was trying to instill me with a sense of nihilism, all these philosophies, all shown to be flawed, the implication being the same each time, it is all futile, there is no meaning. Hours upon hours of this sense being, not explicitly told, but instilled through parable. And then you get ending E....which essentially allows you to disprove the message of the game simply by not accepting it, the non-acceptance of it proves its wrongness, and it is SUCH a strong moment that it always gets me teared up.
Nihilism is obviously wrong. We can feel it being wrong, by how we experience life. But if all you have is naturalism, then it is true by default. So naturalism must be wrong. There has to be something more to it. Thinking about what that must be leads to God. It's a natural conclusion. It's just that the Japanese are atheists so they wouldn't have included that as a real topic to be explored. But that actually is the most rational alternative to nihilism. Just saying no is not actually an alternative. It just feels better than accepting it, like denial
@@h20taku60 nihilism is less of a full blown philosophical mindset, and more of an existential collapse or low point for a person.
A person that's reached the point of being nihilistic has 2 paths to take from there. Suicide to commit and realize their nihilistic belief, or to find meaning and the will to live on, aka existentialism.
So existentialism is more of what I would say the game is portraying to the player. It's the overall message at least. There are experiences in the game that are nihilistic look the racing machine killing himself once you've beaten him in all his races.
So it's an overall existentialist game, but with a lot of nihilistic moments within it, but that is so that it's existentialist message and themes at the end of the game is a stronger point driven into the player.
Sort of like how the most hopeful story is also the most sad story.
@@trevorveillette8415 Yeah I think you're right, that's what the game is saying. What I'm saying is that in real life this is why faith and religion exist. Even if you were to ask an evolutionary biologist or something, they would tell you it's an advantage to believe, for this reason. Makes it easier to bear hardship and to survive. So even from a science perspective religion is a more comprehensive and useful answer than just accepting that nihilism makes rational sense and then denying it because you see that it isn't good.
@@h20taku60 What? So what is the ultimate "meaning" of those children screaming for help in congo as they suffer from dehydration and starvation?
@@threestars2164 That would be a you problem. It's not my fault that your atheism is unable to assign meaning to anything and you have to just deny what you believe to be reality until you drop dead. I have a comprehensive framework that makes all suffering meaningful and ultimately a good thing.
Gonna have to finish the game before I watch the video but I'm hyped
You have to beat the thing 3 times.
@@MrSpartan993 not a joke. literally, 3 times.
It's gonna take you more than a few hours I'm afraid
When people say "3 times" it sounds like all 3 times you'll be playing through the same stuff. Which is not the case
@@deyama2012 you play through the same stuff 2 times. But I’ll grant that the 3rd time is finally different.
Max Derrat, Subscribed because your videos are so much fun!
Thank IOSA!
today i was really sad, watching this video made me feel a little bit more hopeful, also it made me wanna play nier automata again.
It's nice to know that one of the messafes floating around on that final fight against the credits, it's my little contribution to somebody else feeling hopeful also.
Thanks max.
I was going to reply about Xenogears, but I guess that you kind of made a point about it halfway through the video. imo Xenogears would be by far the most profound in the list (at least regarding games I've played), it pretty much is a bottomless well of thematic richness, but I guess it requires the player to dig as deep as he is willing to if he wants to fully uncover all of it. XG elegantly mixes psychology, philosophy, gnosticism, politics and more while excelling in storytelling, world-building and cinematography (despite the problems we all are very aware of) to reach a singular thesis, I get your point about the inaccessibility of seeing the whole picture unless you try to dig deeper and how N:A is way more accesible in that aspect, but if we are just judging how profound a game is, I don't find that a good criteria at all.
Anyway, comparison are odious and no criteria is objective.
Hey! I really dig your comment. Yeah, my personal criteria of accessibility is VERY subjective, I admit that. Not everybody is going to have that criteria though. If you remove it, then Xenogears has a very strong case for most profound game ever.
@@maxderrat it's fine tho, there would be no room for discussing and essaying if everybody had the same criteria, and you made pretty strong points on the video without a doubt
@@gabrieldehyrule I just want to say this that reading both of your comments and disagreing about some aspects of each game while not once being hostile to each other. Gives me hope for the future!! Wish more people understood disagreements dont have to be ugly!
There is something that I will comment that maybe, JUST maybe you missed. Is kind of an spoiler so I will take my space:
In the game at some point, you are pointed out that machines CANT LEARN properly. They just stick to a certain belief or system and, if it fails, they just repeat it again. "If machines try to set up a dictatorship, it fails, they set up a new dictatorship" or something like that is stated ingame. Therefore, if YOU KNOW THIS when you need to terminate Pascal, you have an even morr awful choice: teminate it, or condemn him to do the same all over again? For me, Nier Automata revolves around the concept of learning, and its main element all over the game is: what happens if machines are not able to learn, like humans? Machines end up destroying all what encompasses human knowledge, after many trials and errors and, in the end, as shown by the pods, the future is a blank slate completely up to them. Certainly, if you play again YOU are condemning 2B and 9S to the same neverending cycle of life and dead, and 2B would love to meet you, and know if she would have a chance to kill you.
There’s a reason why Stellarblade’s claim of being inspired by Automata holds so much weight back then when they introduced the game from the teaser. Shitstorm from the mainstream aside from the activists, if Stellarblade executes correctly like Automata we might have something close to that sparkle/adoration we had when we first played Automata and in turn Re-inspires Yoko Taro to write the scenario for the next Nier entry or any prequel to celebrate its success again.
After finishing stellar blade yesterday i can say its not as deep it has its few moments but no where on this scale
30:00 bro you just said it, we cant be civil
This game was such a journey
2017 really was one of the best game years in recent memory, why is it always every 10 years?
MASTERPIECE of game that is just at the top of so many categories, STORY / OVERALL GAME DETAILS AND STAGES / OST / GAMEPLAY
As someone who's been gaming for over 30 years now, I don't think it's an overstatement to say Ending E is in the top 5 most transcendental and beautiful moments in gaming. Everything about it. You fighting against the idea that everything the characters went through was for nothing, the impossibility, the idea of other players helping you out, the moment all the voices come together when you accept that help (actually getting teary-eyed as I type this down). And, in the end, just like Nier did before it, it lets you choose to sacrifice the only real thing you can sacrifice in a video game, the time you spent playing and progressing through it, to help someone you don't know. This is a testament to the amazing power of video games as a medium.
Autism and isolation in my family has lead to me feeling less human, more machine.
Seeing these robots isolated, alone and with nothing but a world they'll never visit to use as a reference of what life could be. What life SHOULD be. It felt nice, I still felt alone but didn't feel alone in my isolation, the suffering was turned down dramatically.
It was nice seeing 2b and 9s eek out moments where the message of shared love was clear
Idk love this game and wish you the best!
"They say God is dead. I say He's just hiding from His sins and I'm going to hunt the bastard down."
Tamagochi wake up! Max dropped a banger!
That true ending was really moving for me. Ya, you lose something substantial to see it but it was worth it. Never had any game I played do something like that before. Closest would be something Kojima could come up with. It's one of the most memorable endings to a video game ever.
Pascal's story was incredible, Jesus Christ, fun fact the Japanese voice actress for Pascal, Aoi Yūki does voice acting for Madoka from Madoka Magica, another life altering, incredibly profound work of fiction I recommend to all fans of Nier.
That ending E, glory to man kind
Just hearing you speaking about the end credits makes me get so emotional its crazy. Even so many years later. That moment will live with me forever.
Thanks for this video ❤ calmed me down and took my mind off hard times
I don’t think we’ll see the ending of the game topped for a long time IMHO
To me, even though N:A is profound, for me the one that takes the cake without question in Outer Wilds. Loads of games have really stuck with me for making me feel something over the last 30 years, but after decades of battling depression and anxiety, Outer Wilds really helped settle the nihilist part of me and put my existential crisis into perspective at a time I needed it.
Did you know that when given the choice to either kill Pascal or wipe his memory, you can actually just walk away. Pascal screams at you as you do so.
Nier Automata is one of those games where I wish I could erase it from my memories just so I could experience Ending E again for the first time.
I'm waiting to play this game for years and that fact that videos titled like this are still popping off makes me happy and chill while waiting for that perfect timing to complete and dig into it will come.
Thanks, Max! I’m going to come back and watch this after I play the game.
One thing that didn't sit well when playing NieR is that the game constantly questions the violence we inflict upon enemies, and whether these entities are really "enemies", yet the game gives you no other choice but to fight. You can't progress the events of the story in any way unless you actively participate in the violence despite understanding how wrong it is. I guess Yoko Taro is somewhat implying that conflict and pain is inevitable.
In the face of a meaningless existence, it is the greatest virtue to create our own meaning, when faced with despair, we must hold onto hope, no matter how dark things become, hold onto the flame. Just as the brightest light casts the darkest shadow, so too does the darkest shadow give way to the brightest light.
15:00 thank you for adding Xenogears and it's awesome osund track.
30 minutes blowing smoke up 2B's skirt without one mention of 2B's "assets" is in and of itself quite the achievement. Nice Max.
Can’t wait to sit down this evening after everything is done and watch this. Thanks for the video.
I finally got around to playing replicant and automata last month. Replicants gameplay drove me crazy but I loved the writing. Automata was a massive improvement on every dimension for me. I’m a lover of Sofia so I was really looking forward to the philosophical side of Automata. It was great but I was hoping for something more in depth.
It had a lot of really touching existentialist themes and the basic layout of the premise was a brilliant existentialist metaphor. People just talked up the philosophical side of it so much, I was expecting something like what we got for existentialist thought, but for the whole of the history of philosophy.
The ending was so brilliant. That was very touching.
Automata is about what's the meaning of life and Replicant what it means to be human
But at a lore standpoint and character reading and understanding, Automata does an amazing job with other medias like in books and such
>See another Nier Automata video analysis
>Watch it
>Finish
>Go listen Weight of the World
>Cry myself to sleep
I call that a good day
whats wrong with ya
1min and 30s in, you've sold me completely, im here for the NieR glaze
For me, the previously mentioned Xenogears is the most profound game I ever played, but age at the time (late teens when it released) and the ability to look back on it now with many wizened years are a distinct part of that. Planescape Torment as well, which I played when it released. But as for emotional impact, as you included with your definition of profound, I whole heartedly agree with NieR Automata; It made me feel. I'd personally feel lucky to count on even 1 hand the number of games that made me feel more than just accomplishment or frustration from the game proper. You can't force emotional investment from players.
Agreed on Xenogears. That is basically the quintessential "iceberg" of a game. The depth is nearly incomprehensible.
I'm replaying Xenogears right now, and it's a completely different experience than before. My first playthrough, I was Fei's age, and like Fei, I had no idea what I was getting into. Now, I'm Citan's age, and between my existing knowledge of the lore/context, and my perspective as an older person, I'm experiencing a whole new appreciation for how Citan navigates and contributes in the world of Xenogears. Highly recommend the experience!
@@Remidora that's a great way of looking at it. I did the same, where I was younger and blind going into it. Eventually I'll play a second time, much older and wiser and in-tune with the themes the game explores.
0:00: 🎮 Exploring profound moments in gaming history, comparing games for depth, and highlighting the significance of Dex.
4:43: 💡 Exploring the historical context of religious criticism and societal cohesion in Western civilization.
8:59: 🎮 Exploration of Nietzsche's philosophy in NieR: Automata storyline and the concept of creating values in a godless world.
13:46: 💡 Profound exploration of human nature and philosophical conundrums in a mechanical game world.
17:30: 💡 Limitations of perception and reason explored through the failed growth of a robot baby.
22:39: 💔 Tragic events lead to overwhelming guilt and despair, prompting a difficult decision with moral implications.
26:33: 💡 The depth and honesty of NieR: Automata's exploration of existentialism and philosophy through gameplay.
Recap by Tammy AI
Profundity, with an abundance of ladders.
I really enjoy your deconstruction of games from a philosophical perspective. Thank you for doing it!
Am I dumb for just realizing the connection of 9S losing his memory to save 2B's at the beginning of the game, and the player deleting their save file to help others in the end....
I find it so funny that video game video essays always without fail use hollow knight music. I love hollow knight.
PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND PROFOUND
So, I know this is a huge ask, But man. I think Final Fantasy 14 has incredibly emotionally profound moments. I'm not an online gamer at heart, and I dont think I'll actually return unless i hear 7.0 is way better than I think it will be, but from A Realm Reborn to End Walker we get all sorts of psychological and emotional conundrums that just slap you in the heart, and honestly its one of the things that helped me grapple with my fear of becoming a father.
Strong recommend. A majority of the games story is available as single player content.
If you cant see yourself playing it, there are many playthroughs out there. Its that good to me.
this game is incredible.
though, 2B unironically broke the 4th wall due to the raw influence.
The Return of the King
Still to this day ending E brings me to literal tears. And as such it will always be the game I recommend to every person and house plant I talk too.
FOR YOU
Hi Max,
I’ve been a fan for many years now, and it’s been super watching your videos become more academically mature.
As a part of this, I’m hoping you can include the sources and further readings you use to make your videos in the future. The topics you cover, like sociology, history, psychology, and, of course, philosophy all lend themselves to benefitting viewers insight into your videos.
For example, a pastebin link beneath your video with references would be awesome! If you need any help, I’d be more than happy to offer it.
Awesome video as always, but still better everytime,
Cole
This was an amazing video and provoke so many inner thoughts. Looking forward to your next and will be binging some of your previous essays
At this point, I've watched like, 20x more Nier/Nier Automata videos than I've ever played the actual game.
Fix that then.
Why? Ur missing out on the greatest game to ever be made
@@matthewlugo2417 I know. Nier Automata is my favorite game, I still watch every video about it, I listen to the soundtrack daily, but over the years I started replaying it many times, never even got to end A. I dont know, I just think it will never hit the same like the first time I played it.
It’s because online essay type videos explain the story in a way that is better than the actual game story itself.
Robots killing each other and then feeling a bit guilty afterwards is not deep or profound. Nor is is sad at all, like the director clearly wants you to think.
@@irarelyupload6930 wow thats just wrong
That’s the same question posed in A Tale of Two Cities and the Seventh Seal.
Between Automata and Replicant I would personally say that Replicant's story hit harder, in a large part due to Emil's story but also due to the constant gut punches (gameplay in Automata is faaar better though; Replicant's sidequests can go burn in a fire).
For those that haven't played Automata and are looking to do so, it's well worth playing thorough Replicant first even though it can be a bit tedious; meeting Emil in Automata and doing his sidequest will be well worth the payoff if you do (as opposed to playing Automata first).
I believe now that a HUGE part of the perception you have of games, is how you felt at the time, granted great games make you feel good but for example, I unfortunately played this game in a very bad period of my life, I was depressed and had just been fired, so while I finished the game, I did not have such a good time or memory of the game, but now I wonder how different would my memories of this game be if I was on a good mood while playing it.
I’m gonna be honest. I beat the true ending of this game and it did not click with me at all. I’ve been watching videos on people explaining why they love it so much to see if there is something I missed. It was recommended by a friend in my university philosophy class and I got the philosopher references but it mostly felt surface level the way through. I recently also played Disco Elysium, which is also a philosophically charged game, but mainly it felt like it actually had unique things to say while nier was more about referencing well worn ideas that have already been established.
i am 45y gamer , and this game was my real comeback to gaming after long time of download and delete games without getting really attached to any title , ( i played it during the last ten days ) , and i can't find the words to explain or describe how much amazing this masterpiece is ! to me it is the best game ever ..
I finished Nier Automata a few days ago. It absolutely broke me and changed my perspective on life itself.
Welcome to club 😊
This game was the sole reason that made me get a ps4 when it came out. And it broke me when I got all the endings. It took months before I wanted to play another game and still to this day nothing got me like it did
Except it’s not and it’s overrated.
You’re welcome.
sorry for your loss
I am French guy that grew up in the 90s and discovered Ghost in the Shell when I was still quite young. Despite not understanding the movie, it touched me and years later I came to like it even more because I finally understood the whole thing. Also, in high school I got hooked by philosophy and I used to carry two books in my bag, to read between classes: "The Human Condition", by Malraux, and "Existentialism Is a Humanism", by JP Sartre.
When I discovered NieR Automata, I was blown away by how smart the game was, how it approached existentialism (I mean, the protagonist's name being "To Be" makes it instantly clear we're going to enjoy a philosophical trip). The atmosphere, the characters...I loved it.
A certain game you may want to look into is Harvestella, released in 2022. While it was advertised as a farming sim, it's really an Action RPG with farming sim elements. Recommending it because it's story reads as a mix of Final Fantasy, Xenogears, and Nier, both Replicant/Gestalt and Automata. It also has fantastic art direction and a soundtrack by Go Shiina, which really helps out the story and feeling of the game.
Just to warn you though, it will take time before you can delve into the real meat of the story, especially with extra lore and philosophical ideas held in characters stories and side quests. There's also no voice acting, which feels like a really big missed opportunity. Not a perfect game by any means, it got pretty middling reception for a reason, and the poor advertising didn't help, but if you can stick it out and bite your teeth into it, I found it to tell a really heartfelt and compelling tale.
lol this is profound if you're in middle school. This is actually the most overanalyzed games to ever exist. even yoko taro admits it
Played a bad tutorial for 45 minutes died right before the boss did then rage quit it.
YESSS LET's GOOOOOOO!
You’re one of my favorite content creators and validate video games as a high medium constantly. Thank you and love you
Yes I love it when the generic anime characters sulk, grunt and gasp for 90% of their dialogue and then exposition dump at the very end of the game to make up for it. Truly PROFOUND.
i know your not referring to nier automata with your blatant lies and over exaggerated synopsis
Totally agreed. It's a magnet for pseudointellectuals that are impressed by 101 philosophy. Full of anime tropes and anime characters. Characters that are more human than human apparently but they all become suicidal or genocidal at any moment of real adversity or loss, nothing more human than that.
@@jovan9989 the real psuedo intellectuals are you clowns mocking everyone while pretending like yall are so above this if your so enlightened and deem this as basic "101 philosophy" then what exactly are high intellectual philosophies
Best game ever made. Best story in a game. Best soundtrack in a game.
It's funny you decided to open the video with MGS2, as i think this is the most important video game series ever created. Along with, you guessed it, NieR
The only two video games series that managed to make me cry thanks to their stories, writing, characters, etc... but most importantly, only these games made me feel that the creator was litteraly talking to me, giving me his point of view on really deep topics
I've never experienced anything like that in any other game. These series will remain a part of who i am till my last day
I disagree that Ending E's message is about love. It's altruism. Selflessness. Those values aren't inherently tied to love; you don't need to love a stranger in order to do something nice for them.
Removing pascals memory was so hard.
I’ll be waiting for a Stellar Blade drop and make a decision
To put it succinctly, Nier: Automata serves as a memento mori on the perceived meaning and purpose we define and take for granted in our lives.
The nihilistic existentialism of this video game is tough, stressful, lives rent-free in our heads, and is genuinely taxing to mental health (on top of the very real possibility that there could already be people who had literally died from this game's aspect). But it's the inconvenient truth, no questions asked, and as long as we have learned to fully accept that and are not that afraid anymore, there is a modicum of peace of mind we can sustain amidst the lifetime existential despair.
I still remember the times where in all my playthroughs I literally rejected Ending E and manually deleted my save files off the game. Because I eventually understood what the game was trying to tell me. Ending E was anything but positive where we ended up committing more senseless killing, forging a new _fortress of lies_ pursuing that false hope, and causing more long-term problems for the very entities we were supposed to help and save in the first place.
As I said it back in the day, the closest thing we can get to a happy ending is the catharsis, relief, and satisfaction we get from fully accepting the game's dark message and outcome, and the strength and personal growth we get from it. It virtually precludes any desire or longing for any happier closures.
No matter how far Yoko Taro has come over the years as a video game creator, his stories will always be of the same grimdark nature and conclusion, that always speak for the seemingly unchanging state of human nature at its worst...
nah, sorry but that is kinda empty just like the video actually is and all the philosophical takes that mentioned in the video... what did you take for granted before playing this game and what changed?
know that even the way that you feel about anything is ultimately by your life experience, your genetics and even if you really want to go with, the quantum arrangement that make you you, that's why people like you were being mentally taxed from playing this game while others don't. One's existential dread can be just another's meh, why, well because we are simply not arranged the same.
I think it's the complete opposite actually. Gave me an even more appreciation of life, and delivered and extremely hopeful message about personal relationships and life
This is one of the best, if not the best Nier Automata video analysis I've seen. It made me want to explore even more things I didn't observed during my 1st playthrough. I will save this video and watch it again after I play this game at least one more time and have an even better understanding of all the meaning hidden in this gem. Congrats for the video!
Daikatana is the most profound game ever made.
Doubt.
your channel is amazing. Your videos are deep and retrospective and enjoy listening to you!! Thank you!!
Hi Max, sorry I'm going to be very crude even though I love your channel enormously but it's always the same games and subjects that come up over and over again. I'd like you to tackle other subjects - philosophy isn't just based on this kind of thing. You could, for example, make videos on work, on how the game interprets the world of work, work ethic, freedom, spirituality, being Parents, what you can do for a loved one etc... Because I swear, every time I come on your channel it's always the same games over and over again, and I'm not saying that to insult you, but it's a shame to always focus on them and not be more open to other games that aren't as philosophical, but can also interpret other things.
Read as: Stop covering topics you like in the ways that you like. Signed: someone who watches your work for free
NieR automata literally covers all of those things
When it comes to either killing or wiping Pascals memory, I choose the third option in just leaving. We have to live with the things we have done, and I believe that Pascal should as well. If he wants to take his own life after the fact, that is his choice, and his responsibility. He should not have left it up to A2. If you wipe his memory, he appears later with the cores of the children. If he had known he was going to do that, I seriously doubt that he would've asked to have his memory wiped in the first place. Ultimately, he wanted to feel human, and regret is part of that experience.
Wait till this man plays Xenogears. That is the greatest game ever made.
Facts
21 views in 15 seconds? Fell off
Those views are from people who support me on Patreon/SubscribeStar/TH-cam Memberships. You can see my videos one day before everybody else does. :)
@@maxderratThese type of comments are ironical.
“Profound” by itself is a meaningless goal to strive for. It says nothing except “I personally consider this important”. Okay, but why exactly? Everybody does 30-minutes or longer videos on NieR: Automata, but nobody seems to be able to say what its message is - or, if people do make a claim about that, the differences are so drastic that the game can be interpreted as saying pretty much anything - or nothing at all.
If people said, “NieR: Automata makes an important contribution to the debate around X”, then I guess I’d have an easier time accepting that. But all the game does is raise a broad swath of vague ideas and questions, without really seeming interested in answering any of them. (One of the pods even states this in the final sequence.)
It seems like the main intention of both the developers and the players who praise it is just to create the impression of being well-read. Just like some online thinkers are commonly labeled, “a stupid man’s smart person”, NieR: Automata is a shallow person’s deep game. Its level of insight, as you define “profound”, is like a shallow pond, rather than a deep shaft: A game that tries to briefly touch on a lot of different ideas - rather than exploring a single and seemingly simple idea in depth.
It’s not a surprise then that a convoluted, messy and overly complex plot arises from this. And if that’s the “most profound” video games have to offer (whatever “profound” means to begin with), then I have truly lost all hope for video games as a medium.
Perosna is the most profound. Play perosna series. It's the greatest
Persona is on the same level, something edgy teens like, that is to say, garbage.
@@threestars2164 your existence is garbage my friend
@@threestars2164 you poor ignorant fool
@@threestars2164 that is what they told Nietzsche and every other philosopher. You're so mature
This is my favourite video of yours!
Also loved watching you collaborate with the guys from Resonant Arc, those guys have incredible discussions and provide me with my weekly existential crisis lol.
Lots of love to you and those around you. Peace and happiness all the way from Australia. Xx