All this debate is about definitions & translations. The commandment is not "Thou shall not kill" but "Thou shall not commit MURDER". Self defense / home defense / protecting your family is NOT murder. If an attacker dies because of HIS decision to steal or kill, the sin is his, NOT the person who resisted the evil. "Turn the other cheek" refers to an insult or minor incident LIKE GETTING A SLAP. Nothing life threatening there, so walk away. But if your life is in peril Jesus instructed us to sell our coat and buy a sword! The matter seems settled to me.
benthere422 your rong.kjv states thou shall not kill. New kjv is rong and impossible, how can there be a new kjv when king James has been dead for 100"s of years. It should be named after who ever created that book, so that by its self should make you question the new kjv's velitedy. With that being sead Check original text. You will find there is a clean translation from original text to English. In other words the original text clearly states thou shall not kill. There is a word in the original language for kill and one for murder. The original word was kill. Don't take my word. Look it up. Do your own research. Never I repeat NEVER take another man's word. Always test it. ( check it out). Very important your only dealing with your eternety, you only get one chance at this (no do over"s) Somebody tell you something always check it out (test the spirit) JESUS is the way. Now go and sin no more.
Topics Like these aren't very complexed atleast not in My opinion. If Your a grown adult You know the difference between right an wrong, and its pretty safe to say if someone's trying to put You're life or the Lives of You're family in Jeopardy Neutralize the threat. Obvouisly There is a Place for War, peace and Love, But being filled with the spirit Will help You a great deal in situations like these if they should arise an will Instruct You in how to handle an deal with them accordingly. But I don't believe in No way shape or form are You called by god to sit on You're hands an do nothing whether its You or You're family or the Weak an innocent. Especially Men, We are called To be strong an Courageous not to say women can't But as Men God expects more of us in Situations Like these. Anyways sry for the Long comment Yah bless brother's an sister's May Christ And the spirit be with all of You always 🙌.
I agree on many things that you pointed out but i will say that verse to sell your cloak for a sword in the original language the word sword used was actually not a sword for killing but a large knife for working.
1 Tim 5:8 “But if anyone does NOT PROVIDE (even safety) for his own,and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” THIS ALSO LOGICALLY APPLIES TO PROTECTING YOUR FAMILY !
This issue isn't tough at all. Jesus used hyperbole when he said, "Turn the other cheek." Jesus also said, "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out." So, Christian brother, why are you walking around with your right eye? Jesus was exaggerating - using an extreme example - to make a general point about not retaliating against people who use you or call you names. We are to pray for our enemies...and kill them if needed when they threaten the lives of our friends and families, or ourselves. Jesus also told the apostles right before he went to the cross, "Sell your cloak and buy a sword" Does that mean you're obligated to buy a weapon? No. But it does mean that self-defense is Biblical.
perfectly stated. I don't know why this subject has to be so difficult. Supposed smart and spiritual people who lack the ability or desire to defend the innocent,or heck, their neighbors...makes me scratch my head. It also makes me hope I never have them as neighbors. They'd be zero help in times of trouble!
I was 19 years old when 5 people entered my study room in a student residence. They put a black bag over my head. I struggled for several minutes to eventually get the choking hands and bag removed. Karae and Jujitsu helped me to knock two of them down and the rest fled. I recommend self-defence.
@@desmondj8812 Yes, I am and I quit martial arts completely around a year or two later because of my faith. Believe me, I hate violence with a passion and I strongly recommend to refrain from any form of martial arts practice. However, I am still happy that I could use self-defense skills to prevent evil people from destroying my life and other innocent victims.
So why do you recommend self defense but then say to refrain from martial arts practice not to get into a debate but i believe that luke 22:35 gives saints a right to practice and use martial arts in self-defense i dont believe that practicing and using self defense is a sin under the right circumstances
@@desmondj8812 I applaud your view and it is the right view according to the Word. I practiced martial arts from a very young age and it was all good to learn discipline, be fit and build confidence. However it changed later-on and became idol-worship. A Christian brother convinced me to stop completely, since he knew that it was not good for me anymore. In all cases, dependence on God's protection and prayer is the way to go. However the special case of being a witness to someone else came through this confrontation. One of the attackers was more than just an acquaintance and I decided to forgive and pray. I received clarity about the issue and realised that it was more of a prayer burden to me than it was about exposing the evil act. A couple of months later, I was led to this locked room late in the evening, loud music was playing as well. I saw the door was locked when I knocked and I decided to just peer through the window. This man was overdosing on drugs and was dying. I managed to get a few assistants to help me enter the room and take him to the hospital where they could treat him. He certainly would have died of overdose, that was his intention. At this foreign hospital, I also bumped into our neighbour's prodigal son, sitting in a wheel chair having continuous heart attacks. The utter surprise and happiness made him realise that it was not just coincidence, since we talked about the gospel approximately 1 year earlier. I could pray for him, but he died some time later of a heart attack. God's ways are not our ways and he used self-defense to reprimand and eventually reach the unreachable.
And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. Luke 22:36
She talks as a western Christian who has never been persecuted but living in the freedoms bought by those who shed there blood and the blood of others but yes God does protect.
I'm a Christian and i do have guns...I've had guns since i have been 18...when i turned 21 i bought hand guns...i have never shot or killed anyone and I'm 43...i keep a gun incase i need to hunt for food...or an animal decided it wanted to attack me...
Don't bring up turn the other cheek if you're not going to bring up the book of Luke when he said sell your garment for two swords. In Psalms it said it There's a time to kill so my understanding is not that he literally wants us to be a punching bag because in Luke he said get two swords. It confused me before but there are times when we have to let stuff go and endure attacks from the enemy and there are times we defend ourselves. If you have a burglar break into your house and you shoot him it's self defense not murder. Thou shalt not kill is based on intent. They shall not randomly kill someone in rage. Peace and blessings and let's get knowledge, wisdom and understanding.
@@maryellen6153 he rebuked them because prophecy must be fulfilled jesus had to go to the cross . Peter was fighting against Gods will. GOD is not against you protecting yourself
I believe that when Jesus said, "Turn the other cheek" we have to put that in the right context. I believe that Jesus was saying here that is someone offends you and attacks you personally, (Not physically) we must not let the temptation of our ego's and retaliation take over. When someone offends us we must let it go and not allow their personal attack on us drive us to sin. What comes to mind here is like when someone back hands you like in the old days when they would challenge you to a duel. A type of prideful challenge one would have to settle a score. I don't see this as someone physically assaulting you, your loved one, or your neighbor. I believe Jesus is telling us to turn the other cheek in humility and not allow their words to affect our spirit. I don't believe that Jesus was talking about never defending ourselves and as Christians being pacifists. We must not take this verse and turn it into a prohibition against self-defense. Even Jesus told the disciples to go buy a sword. Jesus knew that there would be times were we as Christians would have to take up a sword and defend ourselves. The sword (Gun) is not what is in question here and I believe it is more then biblical for Christians to defend themselves and others. What is in question here is the heart. The heart is the catalyst here. If the heart is pure then the defense is justified but if the heart is not pure then the defense is murder. Thank you for discussing this topic. I could go more in-depth with but this is just a brief summery on what I feel the bible says about Christians and guns/self-defense. For Gods glory. Travis Donnelly Full Armor Defense Faith Based Firearms Training "For when all you have is God and a gun"
Concisely how I read the verses in question, too (especially Matthew 5:38-42). Out of own life experience I can attest to the sentiment that nothing goods comes out of over-reacting to petty insults. If someone insults you, it's best to just let it slide, both in your behavior as well as in your mind. If you answer the insult, conflicts usually escalate with unknown and unforeseeable consquences. If you think too much about the insult, you allow evil to occupy your mind which otherwise could be used for good. But of course every Christian has the right and even obligation to protect his own. Unfortunately, there are offenders who are not only out to insult you or try to bamboozle you but to take your life. In these circumstances, even lethal force is allowed if there seems to be no other way to save yourself.
If you go with the literal meaning: If someone slaps you, turn the other cheek. Going with the literal meaning, you can't construct advocacy for uber pacifism.
The dude humble bragging about his guns being unloaded is a fool. An unloaded gun is not a gun that is useful for defense, which means he isn't defending anyone with a gun.
Well maybe the question should be; should the nice lady be a pastor in the first place but I guess that's another conversation. Having said that which I'm sure will fire up the feminist Christians. let me get to this topic. A person has a right to defend themselves and their family as well as their brethren and other innocent. When the Bible says turn the other cheek it clearly means we are to do our very best not to have to fight to walk away not to be a brawler. But if someone comes at us to hurt us or to hurt our loved ones we have an obligation to defend. If that person is killed it is not us taking their life but rather it's themselves that are responsible for their death.
Sorry...following that would mean Christians are duty bound to learn martial arts, gunmanship, have local church militia etc...So wut r u saying ...??? that we are only martyrs when we get surprise taken or out weaponed??? Theres not 1 even vague hint of any acts of violence by Christians in all the N.T....I mean show me even 1 out of all the apostles adventures. There should have been at least 11 swords with the apostles...but Jesus said 2 was enough...bc it was NOT about defense of the innocent. Do u believe u must defend the innocent whenever there are crimes against them ? Hmmmmm ...then get armed and get down to the nearest abortion house and begin your new ministry of defense! Give it some serious thought if u will.
+Dr. David M. Berman if had a duty to use deadly force to defend family members...i would also be bound to defend the unborn and all victims i know about...we cant pick & choose who we would be bound to protect...all people are owed our love. I have no wife or children...but thats beside the point. Are u ready to deliver the innocent unborn or partially born with deadly force?
Ben Joseph you are a pacifist. I respect that. I have no problem with that at all. I on the other hand am not. Shooting abortionists is counter productive to the proliferation movement. It does not move opinion our way. Opinion is moving our way. If someone tried to hurt my wife or children and I was forced to take their life. I would. I would not allow them to hurt my family. If you would then you and I disagree. I do however understand your view.
To ALL, I'm ex LEO and a devout follower of Our Lord Christ. Are you kidding? There is so much Christ said about these isues. Christ asked just before going to Getsemany. "Do we have any swords" (paraphrased). The Aposteles said "We have two Lord, Jesus said that is enough". Also He said, "The officerdoes not carry the sword for nothing." Also, The day will come when one will sell his coat to buy a sword" (Luke 22:36). "Do not throw your pearls to swine, for they will rip you assunder". My truth and my cheek are pearls! Christ Himself will return to destroy the wicked till the blood rises up to the bridles.(In Revelation). We are not to be whimpy christians according to Christ! If one does not care for his own he is considered a infidel. To turn the other cheek to a beast? No! I will to one who mighy respond to that like a fellow servant. People read "THE WORD", ALL of IT! Are you people kiding? It is a terible thing to land in the hands of an Angry God! I'm not going to say where in scripyure these writtings are. Find them. They are there, I assure you. Look them up!
hey criminals watching this,"None of my guns are loaded" guy, is a good victim to hit first. Of course I'm kidding. Fellow Christians and non Christians. Develop a plan in your home. Secure your firearms, but be ready. You may as well use your pistol as a club if it isn't loaded. My point being if it IS secure, then keep it in ready fire state! If evil comes to visit upon you and your family,you have an obligation to be ready. It doesn't mean we live in fear. On the contrary. It is a freeing,and empowering feeling to train,and be ready to the best of our abilities! We owe it to others to battle evil when the time comes.I find it annoying that some pastors feel the need to almost apologize like the man did here when he said none of his guns are loaded. If you are a member of his church,I would tell him,(With love and respect) you never have to worry about offending me for having guns in your home. You never have to worry about offending me about being a shepherd who loves his flock this way,if need be use deadly force! I suspect this hesitancy comes from criticisms he's heard from others. News stories,whatever. All of us need to stand with our pastors and support them this way. Stop being Milquetoast fools!
I have often asked: " Do we love until it kills us or Love until we have to kill? " The real question is not what is _justifiable_ according to the city, state or country's law, or the Natural law of self-protection - but more in the eyes, or really the *_'Heart'_* of God. We are all forgiven and don't have to be concerned with whether or not it will be considered "justified and forgivable" by God, (it will) but more importantly - what are we called to do to be that sweet aroma of love for pleasing God, and isn't eternity where it all really matters? I imagine I'd utilize a .357mag pistol or 5.56 rifle to protect my dog from a wild animal, and in the heat of the moment would do the same to protect a family member, friend or innocent bystander, but what is right in the eternal course of God's sacrificial and obedient love when it come to *self* - defense? If God has promised to be "For us" and to provide _all our needs,_ then the question remains, *Do we love until it kills us - or - love until we have to kill?*
I'm a Christian and I Believe like Samson, David, Chuck Norris ETC..WHO ARE CHRISTIANS Who are warriors fighters in the faith! Let's put it in plain English! Face your fears love it and fuck the enermy or they will fuck you up period!
I believe that only applies to the Bible in their times nowadays a woman can be a pastor. My mom's friend is a pastor and you feel God their at her services.
My interpretation of the scripture, is not to allow someone to provoke you into a physical fight. Turning the cheek shows incredible courage and that you have the intellect to resolve differences without taking physical action, it also shows a commitment to loving your enemy. Now, should the offender strike you a second time. I believe that you have every right to defend yourself without using lethal force, you could decide to only block and deflect kicks and punches. Without any offensive strike's, God will see you are in a position to be harmed and yet still don't strike someone who has pitted themselves as your enemy. God could send good hearted people to your Aid and often the fight/altercation will be over. I too like the man in the Video, would hope and have prayed that I would never be tested in such a way. To take a life could very well change the nature of your very soul, But I would risk my life to save loved one's. The action would not be one of malice, nor one made with a hateful heart. I would be sorrowful and even mourn their lose and the lose of my Peaceful innocence. May God protect those who praise and worship with a true and pure heart, may our enemies always be placed far from our presence.
Killing isn’t justified. You can’t bend the word of GOD to suite the times we are even warned about this. GOD will protect us but ultimately we shouldn’t kill. We should never consider it an option.
If it's necessary to do that when any other option doesn't exist, you should be ready otherwise you will not be able to do your duty to protect your loved ones and the society when it's needed. To regret afterwards, losing someone you love because you have the wrong mindset, is too late. Remember, it is in the ten commandments to not kill other humans but God told the Israelites to eliminate their enemies as they entered the promised land, with no mercy. We have to know how to separate and understand what God means by that.
The Lord Christ has given the strictest of commands for his faithful brethren & sisters regarding self-defence and using violence. "38 You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the evil man [who injures you]; but if anyone strikes you on the right jaw or cheek, turn to him the other one too. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your undershirt (tunic), let him have your coat also. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two [miles]. 42 Give to him who keeps on begging from you, and do not turn away from him who would borrow from you. 43 You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy; 44 But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Matt 5:38-44 (AMP.BIBLE) They are not to use violence to any human being just as Christ warned Peter when he cut off the ear of one of the men attempting to arrest him. In fact, even soldiers, when becoming believers ask about their position before God. To which St. John replied: "14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, **Do violence to no man**, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages." Luke 3:14 (KJV) It's therefore impossible to obey Christ and become a gun totting police officer or a soldier in the military or any other occupation where the harming of human beings is concerned. "43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies: bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you, 45 That ye may be the children of your father that is in heaven:" Matt 5:42-45 (Geneva Bible) Harming your enemy is forbidden, even at the point of losing your life, along with those whom you love most dearly. "36 Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter." Romans 8:35-36 (ASV) Amen!
War is not murder, self defence is not Murder. Murder is pre meditated Evil. Law of Moses says, Deu 19 (NKJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ⁴ "And this is the case of the manslayer who flees there, that he may live: Whoever kills his neighbor UNINTENTIONALLY, NOT HAVING HATED him in time past-- … ⁶ lest the avenger of blood, while his anger is hot, pursue the manslayer and overtake him, because the way is long, and kill him, though he was not deserving of death, SINCE he had NOT HATED the VICTIM in time past.
Turning the other cheek applies specifically to when somebody slaps you, in Matthew it states its specifically when they smite your right cheek. That's what the Bible says.
YouthFreedomFighters ya but what if you get punched or if someone is gonna attempt to kill you and or your loved ones would go on the defense and besides that, even the Bible says that King David was a warrior king and had defended against isrials enemies.
Richard Haley ya , these people that preach that stuff are not Christian people they are something else. God threw Lucifer out on his ass . Big war In heaven right , why even fight if not ALLOWED. SEE they are dangerous and need to be out on his ass li ke Lucifer.
don't be legalistic about it, that's like saying you're supposed to forgive people 490 times because Jesus said to forgive people 70 x 7 times. He meant you forgive endlessly.
@@YouthFreedomFighters My point is if you take that verse literally you'll not only miss the entire point of what Jesus is saying but you open yourself up to more problems such as deciding what to do when someone punches you instead of slapping. Jesus didn't say anything about punching specifically so what does that mean. Do you get my point?
There is a tremendous amount of history in this question!! During the time of Jesus and the Apostles (when the NT was written approximately), Christians were a small minority group that was often persecuted by the state of Rome. -Almost snuffed out at times over the 200-300 years until Constantine made it legal! -Later, another emperor made it the "official Roman" religion (later in the 4th century?)... -Through the next 1200-1500 years of European history, church and state became inter-twined. -First with vaious Kings/Queens converting and leading (or demanding) their people to conversion, then, more democratic or representative democratic states appeared (maybe Dutch or English being among the first?)... When these rep democratic states appeared, they adopted various laws concerning themselves. Most of the laws they adopted were not new and in fact based on Judeo-Christian, Roman, or Greek laws from the past. These laws had to do with the empowerment of the state to protect itself (i.e., Romans 13 from Apostle Paul). Despite the fact that every one of those governments was or is flawed in some way, they are a meager attempt by Christians and Others to put in place governments that are tolerant of one another's ways and religions. Many younger people today would rather just let the representative constitutional government of the USA "go into the waste bin" of history rather than stand up and fight for its principles based on the value that they bring and have brought in the past to human societies as a whole. -I think this is a wrong attitude. We (present generation of humans) should understand that where we are today as a society is due to the often great price paid for us to be at this point (in terms of blood and treasure). It would be a shame if "next gen" just decides to not fight for their rights as US Citizens and instead takes a "as long as it doesnt affect me" stance on our basic freedoms. In the process of choosing not to fight for those freedoms, the generation that so chooses will be consigning their own generation and possibly many others to a life of slavery, because that is what Christians were subjected to during the 200-300 years during and after the lives of Jesus and the Apostles. So, time has passed and history had proven that there *are* fundamental human rights that should be and must be preserved even with our lives and at the expense of the lives of others if needed to prevent those rights from being violated. -It is never an easy thing for anyone to kill anyone else. But if the "anyone else" is threatening your life or the lives of others, and you are armed and have the ability to stop them (in a position to take an accurate shot), you would be amiss if you did not do so. -And you would regret your lack of decision to do so later on (maybe by losing your life or the lives of those you love). So based on teachings of scripture and almost 2000 years of development of Judeo-Christian culture in the west, we have rights to personally defend ourselves and to use violence to preserve those rights for ourselves and others if and when it is called for. We should never take lightly the responsibility that comes with the history and granting of those rights!
The thing is. Idk because the bible says not to lean towards your own understanding. but any disagreement that christians have, that have two sides that both use scripture is clearly a misunderstanding on one's part. so that means that you should probably not worry about it. And if you ever get into the debated situation as an Ambassador of Christ, then you might know the answer then. You will understand when god is ready for you to understand.
In your video contending for self desfense, thier is a command against actions towards people, Matthew 5:39 states plainly to not resist an evil person which will explain matthew 5 dealing with turning the other cheek and seeing Jesus and his disciples being an doormat while being beating and killed while not repaying the same action for thier visual example harmonizing with his verbal teachings. 1 pet 3:9, rom 12:17. And prov 20:22 says to not pay evil with evil,so obviously evil being done to you is harmful or lethal force in this case but also when talking about killing an burgler in your home in dueteronomy Jesus says to not demand back what is taken-stolen from you luke 6:30, so using force to stop the person from stealing is a demanding action When it comes to luke 22:36, it is true Jesus had no rebuke for us to have a sword or carry one but the application in Matthew 26:50-52 is contrary to His teachings which is why He rebuked peter for trying to protect Him and if it was not ok to lethaly protect God whom we put above all, how much more that we do not protect everything else with lethal or harmful violent force! Self,family,enemy,property and nations residing. He had no intention in using us for His protection because prophecy had to be fulfilled and He plainly stated that if He needed help He would call on 12 legions of angels to deal with the issue. Jesus commanded us to not resist because in John 18:36 He told Pontius Pilate that His Kingdom was no longer of this realm otherwise He would have us protect Him and the Kingdom with force. But also if what peter did was an isolated incident and it was ok to bare arms against people, Jesus would have only rebuked peter for again hindering Him from doing Fathers will as peter did the first time after he confessed Jesus was the Christ. Satan had persuaded Peter to rebuke Jesus for predicting that He must die. But Jesus rebuked peter for applying the sword unjustly because it was not commanded by Jesus period, notice the others asked Jesus if they should draw the sword knowing His teachings but uncertain of what to do knowing they were allowed to carry the swords. while Peter acted rashly with hatred and without permission. Jesus rebuked Peter and ALL those who whould act as Peter did that day in the heart and in action by living by such violence you will die by it, not just physically because many have lived by it but died naturally so He was strongly implying that they will die in thier sins. To live by violence can be in thought and action, sense Jesus studies and judges the heart a person could always be prepared to kill in defense without ever having to apply it and still be guilty of unjust anger being contempt towards life. We cannot perfectly be wrathful and take vengeance as God to still be just. When it comes to john the Baptist not addressing the soldiers, we must see that He was an Old Covenant Prophet and was just making the way for the Lord as Jesus was the fullness of Fathers Teachings and revealer of mysteries. what ever Father wanted Jesus to say He said according to His will, Jesus would be the New Covenant Prophet sense through His death the New Covenant was initiated. It is His teachings we would follow and His example we would imitate. When it comes to romans 13 let us pay attention to context of who the rod of anger is and what they must do to be used by God to punish and judge evil with the sword 1 coronthians 5:12-13. These agents of punishment must take revenge and pour out wrath, both of these attitudes we must put away and was not commanded of us in the OT dueteronomy 32:35;romans 12:19 and in the NT Ephesians 2:3-5,ephesians 4:31,colossians 3:8,galatians 5:20 and james 1:19-20 But i think the focus of non-violence is Romans 12:21 Romans 13:10 If you love your neighbor as yourself and do unto your neighbor as you would want unto you, you will not want to have contempt for life, nor putting ready in your heart to kill and harm but show love,mercy and compassion just as stephen had done before he died by his enemies. Nor Paul who after almost being beating to death never used his Roman privilages to do harm to them nor wielded a weapon in defense, chose out of love to address them again and plea with them for thier salvation. We should have the same attitude as Paul who with Gods sacrifical Love would seek to trade places with his condemned bretheren so they may live instead of putting it in our hearts that they may suffer even though just. There is no physical example of Jesus or His disciples that promote your view on war and defense, with all opportunities to record such "approved" actions if Jesus did advocate it, thier is not one moment any confrontation led to a christian to wield a weapon or use thier fists. The sword can simply be understood to help us hunt and or protect against aggressive animals-think about the areas they would be traveling in by foot or donkey-camel-the wilderness, i have been in situations as a non-violent christian towards people that i had to pick up a rock or draw a pocket knife to defend myself against stray dogs while walking around or doing ministry. The physical sword is for animals amd utility purposes while the spiritual sword is for demolishing strongholds to submit rebellion 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 Let us also look at the example of Matthew 22 where Jesus used the Roman empire as His army to judge israel in the fulfilled prophecy in 70AD, sense the hebrews were our enemy according to the gospel although elect according to the fathers, God would have used Christians amongst the Romans to punish the defiant hebrews in israel, but we were not amongst the ranks. if God allowed romans 13 to be binding also on the church, why do we not see historically christian soldiers attacking israel either through the roman army or through a Godly army? I hope you see my point, God does not teach that we can punish evil with the sword through government agencies because we are commanded to never take revenge and put away wrath
Joseph Kuzara I have been wondering about this and I belive your take Here at the end "God does not teach that we can punish evil with the sword through government agencies because we are commanded to never take revenge and put away wrath" is rightious and Godly!!
May you continue to persue peace, and Preach Fathers Peace to understand Gods purpose for His Loving Children. They will know Jesus Disciples by thier love for eachother and the Love we have and are to act upon is the same Love Jesus has towards us. In the end a better perspective of our non-violence is that God has appointed a day when He will take vengeance on all those who afflicted us. Selfless Love is so important that it is sums up Gods Law.
The eye for an eye reference is not about not punishing evil, per se. It was Jesus clearing up misconceptions. Go back and read it. He says,"You have heard it said..." He explained it was civil authorities' duty to administer justice of crimes committed against another person(and others,obviously). Not that you don't have a right to defend yourself. Taken out of context, this scripture often used as the benchmark for a quasi-spiritual,new covenant understanding of violence. read Proverbs 25:26 I believe it is all of our duty to not falter when facing evil. All decent citizens have an obligation to protect the innocent. But punishment for crimes directly against us, (For instance assault,rape,battery,slander )are not up to us individually(yes,in some cases misdemeanor crimes can be dismissed), rather the government of which we are subject to.If it were,we would have chaos.
+aneyesky christianity is a religion of peace yet God will reserve two prophets in Rev 11 to divinely warn the nations of Gods coming Wrath and to Trust and Glorify Jesus. But the rest of the church must abide in non-violence towards people. Our fight is not with flesh and blood but with Satan and his angelic army, our weapons against human rebelers and Satan is the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. In Matthew 5.39 Jesus says to not resist (#436 anthistemi) evil with violent force and in Romans 13.1-10, God commands us to not oppose (#498 antitassomai)any Government on earth with violent force and a militia because then we will be opposing( #436)God with the same force. God also said in Romans 13 that all the government's are agents used to punish evil with vengeance and wrath and because of this no Christian is granted any position within the Governments that uphold positions that lead to the death of anyone. Christians were never to partake in secular politics nor enforce the standards of God through the countries policies and penalties within such seats of authority. To influence a secular person to uphold justice and righteousness according to the Lord is one thing but it is not our jurisdiction to administer such decisions and execute penalties personally in any government or private office that requires it. As Christians we do not take vengeance in Romans 12:19 but also do not walk in wrath: Ephesians2.3-5; 4:31;Colossians 3:8;Galtians 5:20;James 1:19-20. And what is due to this government IF owed is only taxes,honor and respect, Not political, judicial and civilian defense services. Christians are only permitted by Jesus to flee persecution,lay our lifedown for our loved ones non-violently and use the government for our protection to thwart death of self or others. But every Christian but those two prophets must walk in non-violence towards People. Jesus set this example and the Apostles imitated and why when the Hebrew Nation and the Roman Empire waged war against us, no christian militia nor individual violent resistance was executed against these two government's, God used Rome to punish Israel in 70 CE and not the Righteouss. There are many christian cults whom profess Jesus and kill in Gods name the RCC and Islam being the two greatest whom present a false jesus and false works gospel from jesus. But true Christianity is blameless of this matter.
There should be nothing wrong with owning guns to protect yourself. I am peaceful however I would not think twice about shooting someone who is trying to kill me or others. It shouldn't be just about protecting your children. Its about protecting people in general . I don't even know why this is a topic of discussion. It's just common sense.
You know jesus spoke in metaphors and riddles mostly to convey principles rTher than to give specific instuructions.. how do youbread the bible and not go insane? You must know the God youbworship to know his heart and mind. What that verse means is that you shouldnt defend yourself out of Ego|pride.
We need to learn to be strong mentally and physically so that the evil doesn't opress us and waste our time. He wouldn't have created and allowed a law and enforcement system if it was not self defence. My question is, hoe must we react in a school or college bully situation? Surely God will send help or give us the way to escalate out of the situation. Some may say, we must complain to teachers, but it doesn't work everywhere, they just don't have that fear, for such situations, what must a christian student be doing? Where there is no momentary escape
Turning the other cheek is a Christ like disposition of humility... Do you folks think David lacked this ability? No, but there was a job at hand... If it were today, I bet he'd have a .45 . I just don't see how David can protect his animals, Defend the armies of God only to put his tools down if he were to be attacked at home. No,no,no.
It's alright for a Christian to defend himself, just look at lebanon, Christians have survived wars and persecution by being armed to the teeth, we fought isis, we fought Muslims in the Civil War trying to kick us out, we fought Palestinians that tried to kill us. We have 2 saints that fought the ottomans when they attacked churches. We won every wat they tried to wage on us, and here we are still living in lebanon, nobody till the Civil War tried to mess with Christians. We have heavy weapons under monasteries and churches, plus we have guns at home.
Matthew 5:38's context is on insults towards you. Not physical harm. But also to think God will protect us from all physical harm is foolish we live in a fallen world. Not to say he wont in many cases. But to think the odds are low that something wont happen to you is foolish. In Luke 22 Jesus even tells the desiples to ensure they get weapons if they do not already. To claim to be a Christ follower & be anti gun in this day and age is a moral failure to your neighbor. & how are we to rescue the week & needy from wicked people Proverbs 25:26 I say this not to say take up arms or whatever youd think. But because Christians are to be protectors, & messengers of this world. Other than that not bad on yalls end.
The bearded man at 2:13 has already denounced the instruction of the Lord Christ: "26 “If people come to me and are not ready to abandon their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as their own lives, they cannot be my disciples. 27 So those who do not carry their crosses and follow me cannot be my disciples". Luke 14:25-27 (GW) He admitted he would be willing to injure even kill any intruder if they broke into his home and were going to harm his family. Has he never read "36 Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter". Romans 8:35-36 (ASV) He and the rest have also forgotten: "Then some men came forward, took hold of Jesus, and arrested him. 51 Suddenly, one of the men with Jesus pulled out his sword and cut off the ear of the chief priest's servant. 52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword away! All who use a sword will be killed by a sword. 53 Don't you think that I could call on my Father to send more than twelve legions of angels to help me now? 54 How, then, are the Scriptures to be fulfilled that say this must happen?” Matthew 26:50-54 (GW)
I got into an argumentation w a girl bc before I got saved I sayed that she can't sing and then she started "insulting" me tbh i got anry and used words i shouldn't but i never insultef her I was just defending my opinion
Sadly the bearded man to his own condemnation loves his wife and family far more then he loves Christ. "He turned around and addressed them as follows: 26 "Anyone who wants to be my follower must love me far more than he does his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, or sisters-yes, more than his own life-otherwise he cannot be my disciple" Luke 14:25-26 (TLB) "20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, **Do not kill**, Do not steal" Luke 18:20 (KJV) "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt **do no murder**, Thou shalt not commit adultery...." Matt 19:17-18 (KJV) Christ REBUKED Peter for using a weapon on another human being: "Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." Matthew 26:50-52 (ANIV)
So how can you be a father or husband if you can't protect your family? I don't think he's saying he loves his family more than the Lord but he sure as heck loves them more than the person trying to harm them. He might be willing to love his attacker more than himself but clearly not more than his family. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’ Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.” “Look, Lord,” they replied, “we have two swords among us.” “That’s enough,” he said. Luke 22:36-38 NLT And how do you interpret these verses? Given the fact they showed him two literal swords I highly doubt it was a metaphor. And we all know how literally the disciples took what Jesus said. If they were metaphorical or spiritual swords I highly doubt the disciples would have understood that right away. And then Jesus' reply seems just as literal to their literal response.
And yet, Peter didn't die by the sword, but by being crucified upside down. Why did Jesus rebuke Peter for using the sword? After all, Jesus told him to go get one! Jesus was looking at Peter's heart, which was not in the right place. Peter had slept when he should have been praying, which led to his very carnal reactions during the arrest and trial. Peter was not acting out of love, but out of fear. Furthermore, Jesus had told them He was going to be betrayed and would die. And Peter had tried to correct Jesus. So Peter's reaction with the sword in the garden came out of that same spirit, which Jesus rebuked with "get thee behind me, Satan!" Is all "taking the sword" from that same spirit? Obviously not, since God not only approved of war, but actually commanded it! In fact, you'll find the Spirit of God came upon certain ones in Israel, in battle, giving them tremendous ability to kill enemies! That's the same Holy Spirit that fell on the Day of Pentecost, by the way. And God doesn't change. His standard of right and wrong, of moral compass, cannot change. God actually said that to fail to protect the defenseless, is wrong. It's listed alongside judging unjustly and accepting the persons of the wicked. Psalm 82:1-4
@@maryellen6153 stated: "Peter didn't die by the sword, but by being crucified upside down." As he obeyed his Lord thereafter and did not use it for harming human beings" Now, asked the many millions of professing Christians who recklessly died in the two World Wars for using the sword against the command of their Lord, and worst of all against their enemies. Which the Lord Christ has forbidden. "44 But I say unto you, LOVE your ENEMIES bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you, 45 That ye may be the children of your father that is in heaven:" Matthew 5:44-45 (Geneva Bible) And again we read: "12 Then came there Publicans also to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? 13 And he said unto them, Require no more than that which is appointed unto you. 14 The soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely, and be content with your wages." Luke 3:12-14 (Geneva Bible) And once again the Lord forbids violence even when personally attacked: “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to oppose an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn your other cheek to him as well." Matthew 5:38-39 (GW)
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332 And yet, if all that is true, then why are there so many true testimonials from those wars, telling of miraculous answers to prayer on the battlefields, divine assistance - sometimes visible angels - to defeat the enemy?
@@maryellen6153 You mean of Christians killing Christians in violent Wars and then thanking God for their glorious victories over their ENEMIES? What does the Lord Christ declare: "43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, **Love your enemies**: " How can anyone love them and then kill them at the same time? "Bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you, 45 That ye may be the children of your father that is in heaven" Matt 5:43-45 (GenevaBible) How can anyone bless and do good to enemies, yet hate and kill them at the same time?
Ok. This is not even a question. A Christian is not only able to but is commanded to defend his life and his family and other innocent people around them.
The Commandment is "Love others as I have loved you." (John 13:34, 15:12) Did He shoot you or kill you when you kept on messing up? It is a HIGH calling. If you won't even say you will trust Him in a hypothetical situation, you most certainly will not in an actual situation. Pastors who do not quote Jesus when answering questions are themselves highly questionable. "You are not mindful of the things of God but the things of man." (Matthew 16:23) You have non-hunting firearms, and you say, "I hope they will never be used." Try that line when your wife finds prophylactics in your pants pocket. Immediately, you know it's a lie, and you pretended you believed it because you REFUSED TO TRUST JESUS. A set-apart, peculiar people.
OKandNOWwhat Nobody is suggesting that you convert by sword. Self defense is the topic. Tell me, why does it say in Ecclesiastes that there is a time for peace and a time for war? Yet it also says that God will require of those who kill a man in Genesis? Why would God, who never changes, command the Israelites to wipe out the others in the promised land?
stupid issue! Do you still have to ask or make an issue out of what is obvious? Whether you are a Christian or not, you should defend your self from an intruder who will injure you and your love one. The problem with some Christian is they interpret the bible as it commands you to become a saint or a martyr.
God will also help those who help themselves... I know it's a personal thing whether to defend yourself or not... All I can tell you is your kung fu, or your baseball bat won't mean a thing when some Thug armed with whatever weapon he or she will choose, decides to break and enter. And If you don't care enough about yourself and family member's to properly protect them from many types of harm what kind of person are you anyway? God bless and good luck being a soft target...
The faithless using the Bible to justify their actions. God's will be done, rather or not you have a weapon is irrelevant. Saying your going to keep a gun to defend yourself is a total lack of faith and doesn't separate you from the non-believers. Defending can be done without harming or killing a man, and killing a man won't always defend you (legal/mental repercussions,etc.). I say this as a former member of the Georgia Army National Guard in the 1/121 (infantry unit) Headquarters and as someone who has seen what firearms can and will do up close, I hardly see how you can love you enemy whilst doing something so horrible to him. Using the excuse "I wanna defend my family" is silly. God can destroy heaven and Earth, but not keep you and yours save? True Christians are called to do what is seemingly impossible. Old testament verse that nobody seems to remember Daniel 3:23-25. Their FAITH in God saved them, not the sword. So to use Old Testament verses to try and justify self defense, is tantamount to saying all homosexuals should be put to death. Taking verses out of context is twisting the scriptures to your on way of thinking. "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. (Luke 6:27-31, NIV) If there were any "buts" or "ands" Jesus would have mentioned them. Give me a reasonable verse in the New Testament that promotes self-defense. The only time I've seen violence used was by Peter who was instantly rebuked by Jesus: "And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword."
He rebuked him because he was interrupting that which was necessary and planned by God- His crucifixion. He told His disciples to "go buy a sword" I suppose He meant to keep it in a glass case, report it to the government and only use it for hunting. Read the Bible instead of skimming it.
Zach Foxtrot, do be careful when you use scripture to support your thinking. In Luke 22:36 the sword was meant to fulfill prophecy which you would know if you continued reading. And even if it applied the word "sword" literally translates from a work knife and not a war sword which would be a necessity and would mean to be ready. And lastly we have a father in heaven why not just trust him instead of putting our trust in our own self
I believe it teaches us to resolve issues without violence, but when called up on to defend yourself and your family. A man must do what needs to be done, yet he must not take joy from his action nor do things that are heinous or malicious. The Bible doesn't tell us to surrender to our enemies, we are to trust that God will protect us and give us strength and guidance when we are called up on to be tested.
Tremendous number of examples in the old testimate, new testimate does not focus on empires, wars or kings like the old testimate but it is still valid for teaching and examples. King David killed his enemys.
While no one wants to be attacked and bullied, let alone wanting to see their loved one offended, there comes a time to 'turn the other cheek', and be self sacrificing. Being a martyr for Christ, for instance, is one!
Revelations 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death._ The fearful or Cowardly. If you think God would just have you stand or bow before your enemies so that they may take everything he has gave you namely your life, you have no idea what a Martyr is. A Martyr died because he stand up and defends the word of the Lord, God. Christian's will not go like sheep to the slaughter, our heart is Lion strong and our words are like the roar of a lion; for we speak the language of the law. Truth!!! I pray and hope the World never needs to call again on the Christians of the World to defend with Sword and blood to protect our rights and laws sent down to us by God. Hitler and Nazism fell to Hell by the might sword of Christianity. Who can stand against God, no one!!
Jon Brou It does not say martyr your family dummy . God threw Lucifer out on his ass . Big fight in heaven really A war. God kills evil.. You are A political activist you are not Christian. We are not Jesus And Jesus had big guns behind him u know all the power of the universe. JESUS NEVER GAVE UP POWER JESUS KEEPS ALL OF HIS POWER EVEN BUSTED IN TO HELL. JESUS WOULD HAVE OWNED AN AR15..FOR SURE. JESUS NEVER WANTS YOU TO GIVE UP YOUR POWER AND INDEPENDENCE. JESUS ROSE HE NEVER DIED I WOULD NOT MIND Dying if I could come back in a day I mean what the hell is that. JESUS was the king he wanted you to be A good person but to do what he did would be an insult to him. He knows u can't . And Jesus Protects his friends and family that's why u don't know about them...
Kenneth White Turning the other cheek is in the context of forgiveness, as the Lord is teaching believers how it is to live with all humbleness and meekness toward other people. Self-defense is another subject. A believer has the right to defend himself in a situation where he sees his life is threatened and that of others. A believer does not sin against God when defending himself and others in a situation where he feels his life is in danger. A believer can forgive those who persecute him, but not to turn his back against an attacker if he knows his life is in peril. In Exodus 22:2-3, If a thief broke into a house at night, he would have to fear the homeowner, who would not be able to determine an intruder’s intentions, whether he is after the property or harm to the occupants. The homeowner would not be at fault for killing the thief. Notice, however, that even the thief’s life was valued; because if a thief broke in during the daytime (when his intentions would be clear) and were killed by the owner, then the owner would be guilty of murder. While reasonable self-defense is recognized in Scripture, value for human life is the rule. And I believe it is a matter of judging the situation and/or circumstances that the act can be justified or not in the light of God’s moral standard.
Edgar Aleksanyan My friend, first of all; what we are discussing here is self-defense; not retaliation or getting even. The Lord is teaching us meekness and humbleness. We are even told to love our enemies and pray for them. We are not following the Lord’s teaching and commandments if we are to hurt our enemies. And just because they spoke bad things about us doesn’t mean we can do the same to them. Romans 12:21 says “Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.” The Bible is very clear in teaching us believers to be forgiving. And I believe that is not an easy thing to do when you are not living by the Spirit. Only a Spirit led person can do the Lord’s teaching, for example in Matthew 18:21-22. So, yes, you sin against God when you are not doing and following the Lord’s teaching and commandments- which is to love even your enemies.
@Colt Wayne If they repent of their sins and turn to God for forgiveness, they can still be forgiven (Matthew 18:21-22; Isaiah 1:18). Can you show one text in the Bible that says they can never be forgiven?
God's ten commandments are simple #6 thou shall not kill! If your a true believer and god is offering you eternal life it's a simple choice don't kill . America is a death culture and most Americans have forsaken God and replaced him with the false Gods of the founding fathers .
THESEADOG82 Sorry but the founding fathers are more quoted than the word of God today , on issues of death culture in America (Guns). Your feelings and facts are two different things .
All this debate is about definitions & translations. The commandment is not "Thou shall not kill" but "Thou shall not commit MURDER". Self defense / home defense / protecting your family is NOT murder. If an attacker dies because of HIS decision to steal or kill, the sin is his, NOT the person who resisted the evil. "Turn the other cheek" refers to an insult or minor incident LIKE GETTING A SLAP. Nothing life threatening there, so walk away. But if your life is in peril Jesus instructed us to sell our coat and buy a sword! The matter seems settled to me.
benthere422 your rong original text is a clean translation thou shall not kill. (Kjv) new kjv is impossible king James has been dead for 100's of years.that should raise? ???'s by it's self!!!before you jump on me DO THE RESEARCH (go back to the original text. strongs concordance will help)
All this debate is about definitions & translations. The commandment is not "Thou shall not kill" but "Thou shall not commit MURDER". Self defense / home defense / protecting your family is NOT murder. If an attacker dies because of HIS decision to steal or kill, the sin is his, NOT the person who resisted the evil.
"Turn the other cheek" refers to an insult or minor incident LIKE GETTING A SLAP. Nothing life threatening there, so walk away. But if your life is in peril Jesus instructed us to sell our coat and buy a sword! The matter seems settled to me.
benthere422 your rong.kjv states thou shall not kill. New kjv is rong and impossible, how can there be a new kjv when king James has been dead for 100"s of years. It should be named after who ever created that book, so that by its self should make you question the new kjv's velitedy.
With that being sead
Check original text.
You will find there is a clean translation from original text to English. In other words the original text clearly states thou shall not kill.
There is a word in the original language for kill and one for murder. The original word was kill. Don't take my word. Look it up. Do your own research. Never I repeat NEVER take another man's word.
Always test it. ( check it out). Very important your only dealing with your eternety, you only get one chance at this (no do over"s)
Somebody tell you something always check it out (test the spirit) JESUS is the way. Now go and sin no more.
Topics Like these aren't very complexed atleast not in My opinion. If Your a grown adult You know the difference between right an wrong, and its pretty safe to say if someone's trying to put You're life or the Lives of You're family in Jeopardy Neutralize the threat. Obvouisly There is a Place for War, peace and Love, But being filled with the spirit Will help You a great deal in situations like these if they should arise an will Instruct You in how to handle an deal with them accordingly. But I don't believe in No way shape or form are You called by god to sit on You're hands an do nothing whether its You or You're family or the Weak an innocent. Especially Men, We are called To be strong an Courageous not to say women can't But as Men God expects more of us in Situations Like these. Anyways sry for the Long comment Yah bless brother's an sister's May Christ And the spirit be with all of You always 🙌.
I agree on many things that you pointed out but i will say that verse to sell your cloak for a sword in the original language the word sword used was actually not a sword for killing but a large knife for working.
benthere422 are u dumb ir mentally stable even if u get slapped u should defend yourself i bet yoi tell your kids that
The turning of the cheek means to forgive. Not to walk away when your slapped. It means to do the person good if they do you bad.
1 Tim 5:8 “But if anyone does NOT PROVIDE (even safety) for his own,and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
THIS ALSO LOGICALLY APPLIES TO PROTECTING YOUR FAMILY !
You added (even safety). How are going to add to God's Word?
This issue isn't tough at all. Jesus used hyperbole when he said, "Turn the other cheek." Jesus also said, "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out." So, Christian brother, why are you walking around with your right eye? Jesus was exaggerating - using an extreme example - to make a general point about not retaliating against people who use you or call you names. We are to pray for our enemies...and kill them if needed when they threaten the lives of our friends and families, or ourselves. Jesus also told the apostles right before he went to the cross, "Sell your cloak and buy a sword" Does that mean you're obligated to buy a weapon? No. But it does mean that self-defense is Biblical.
perfectly stated. I don't know why this subject has to be so difficult. Supposed smart and spiritual people who lack the ability or desire to defend the innocent,or heck, their neighbors...makes me scratch my head. It also makes me hope I never have them as neighbors. They'd be zero help in times of trouble!
Elenore Green ya , exactly but ,these people are veary Dangerous they are political activist not Christian At all.
Maybe not kill them but hurt them to the point that they aren't a danger to you.
The Christian Haxor, that’s probably justified, I agree
I was 19 years old when 5 people entered my study room in a student residence. They put a black bag over my head. I struggled for several minutes to eventually get the choking hands and bag removed. Karae and Jujitsu helped me to knock two of them down and the rest fled. I recommend self-defence.
Are you a born again christian sir
@@desmondj8812 Yes, I am and I quit martial arts completely around a year or two later because of my faith. Believe me, I hate violence with a passion and I strongly recommend to refrain from any form of martial arts practice. However, I am still happy that I could use self-defense skills to prevent evil people from destroying my life and other innocent victims.
So why do you recommend self defense but then say to refrain from martial arts practice not to get into a debate but i believe that luke 22:35 gives saints a right to practice and use martial arts in self-defense i dont believe that practicing and using self defense is a sin under the right circumstances
@@desmondj8812 I applaud your view and it is the right view according to the Word. I practiced martial arts from a very young age and it was all good to learn discipline, be fit and build confidence. However it changed later-on and became idol-worship. A Christian brother convinced me to stop completely, since he knew that it was not good for me anymore.
In all cases, dependence on God's protection and prayer is the way to go. However the special case of being a witness to someone else came through this confrontation.
One of the attackers was more than just an acquaintance and I decided to forgive and pray. I received clarity about the issue and realised that it was more of a prayer burden to me than it was about exposing the evil act. A couple of months later, I was led to this locked room late in the evening, loud music was playing as well. I saw the door was locked when I knocked and I decided to just peer through the window. This man was overdosing on drugs and was dying. I managed to get a few assistants to help me enter the room and take him to the hospital where they could treat him. He certainly would have died of overdose, that was his intention.
At this foreign hospital, I also bumped into our neighbour's prodigal son, sitting in a wheel chair having continuous heart attacks. The utter surprise and happiness made him realise that it was not just coincidence, since we talked about the gospel approximately 1 year earlier. I could pray for him, but he died some time later of a heart attack. God's ways are not our ways and he used self-defense to reprimand and eventually reach the unreachable.
I found this conversation so wrong...
Ever hear of king David.
And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. Luke 22:36
Yeah so He could fullfill His word when He told those who live by the sword will die by the sword.
Using a weapon once in self defense is no more "living by the sword" than having a glass of wine is living as a drunkard.
She talks as a western Christian who has never been persecuted but living in the freedoms bought by those who shed there blood and the blood of others but yes God does protect.
right lol someone else died so you have those freedoms.
Years ago, the Vatican said not defending your own life is akin to committing suicide.
Yes defend yourself and others.
I'm a Christian and i do have guns...I've had guns since i have been 18...when i turned 21 i bought hand guns...i have never shot or killed anyone and I'm 43...i keep a gun incase i need to hunt for food...or an animal decided it wanted to attack me...
Don't bring up turn the other cheek if you're not going to bring up the book of Luke when he said sell your garment for two swords. In Psalms it said it There's a time to kill so my understanding is not that he literally wants us to be a punching bag because in Luke he said get two swords. It confused me before but there are times when we have to let stuff go and endure attacks from the enemy and there are times we defend ourselves.
If you have a burglar break into your house and you shoot him it's self defense not murder. Thou shalt not kill is based on intent. They shall not randomly kill someone in rage. Peace and blessings and let's get knowledge, wisdom and understanding.
I wonder why Jesus told the disciples to go get swords, and then turned around and rebuked them for using one in the garden?
@@maryellen6153 he rebuked them because prophecy must be fulfilled jesus had to go to the cross . Peter was fighting against Gods will. GOD is not against you protecting yourself
@@faithfultheology what about Steven
I believe that when Jesus said, "Turn the other cheek" we have to put that in the right context. I believe that Jesus was saying here that is someone offends you and attacks you personally, (Not physically) we must not let the temptation of our ego's and retaliation take over. When someone offends us we must let it go and not allow their personal attack on us drive us to sin. What comes to mind here is like when someone back hands you like in the old days when they would challenge you to a duel. A type of prideful challenge one would have to settle a score. I don't see this as someone physically assaulting you, your loved one, or your neighbor. I believe Jesus is telling us to turn the other cheek in humility and not allow their words to affect our spirit. I don't believe that Jesus was talking about never defending ourselves and as Christians being pacifists. We must not take this verse and turn it into a prohibition against self-defense. Even Jesus told the disciples to go buy a sword. Jesus knew that there would be times were we as Christians would have to take up a sword and defend ourselves. The sword (Gun) is not what is in question here and I believe it is more then biblical for Christians to defend themselves and others. What is in question here is the heart. The heart is the catalyst here. If the heart is pure then the defense is justified but if the heart is not pure then the defense is murder. Thank you for discussing this topic. I could go more in-depth with but this is just a brief summery on what I feel the bible says about Christians and guns/self-defense. For Gods glory.
Travis Donnelly
Full Armor Defense
Faith Based Firearms Training
"For when all you have is God and a gun"
Concisely how I read the verses in question, too (especially Matthew 5:38-42). Out of own life experience I can attest to the sentiment that nothing goods comes out of over-reacting to petty insults. If someone insults you, it's best to just let it slide, both in your behavior as well as in your mind. If you answer the insult, conflicts usually escalate with unknown and unforeseeable consquences. If you think too much about the insult, you allow evil to occupy your mind which otherwise could be used for good.
But of course every Christian has the right and even obligation to protect his own. Unfortunately, there are offenders who are not only out to insult you or try to bamboozle you but to take your life. In these circumstances, even lethal force is allowed if there seems to be no other way to save yourself.
If you go with the literal meaning: If someone slaps you, turn the other cheek. Going with the literal meaning, you can't construct advocacy for uber pacifism.
way too much ha ha ha
and really very shallow touching on this question
greatly disappointed...
The dude humble bragging about his guns being unloaded is a fool. An unloaded gun is not a gun that is useful for defense, which means he isn't defending anyone with a gun.
Love your comment you are so right
Well maybe the question should be; should the nice lady be a pastor in the first place but I guess that's another conversation. Having said that which I'm sure will fire up the feminist Christians.
let me get to this topic. A person has a right to defend themselves and their family as well as their brethren and other innocent. When the Bible says turn the other cheek it clearly means we are to do our very best not to have to fight to walk away not to be a brawler. But if someone comes at us to hurt us or to hurt our loved ones we have an obligation to defend. If that person is killed it is not us taking their life but rather it's themselves that are responsible for their death.
Sorry...following that would mean Christians are duty bound to learn martial arts, gunmanship, have local church militia etc...So wut r u saying ...??? that we are only martyrs when we get surprise taken or out weaponed???
Theres not 1 even vague hint of any acts of violence by Christians in all the N.T....I mean show me even 1 out of all the apostles adventures. There should have been at least 11 swords with the apostles...but Jesus said 2 was enough...bc it was NOT about defense of the innocent.
Do u believe u must defend the innocent whenever there are crimes against them ? Hmmmmm ...then get armed and get down to the nearest abortion house and begin your new ministry of defense!
Give it some serious thought if u will.
Ben Joseph are you a pacifist? Do you have a wife and children?
+Dr. David M. Berman
if had a duty to use deadly force to defend family members...i would also be bound to defend the unborn and all victims i know about...we cant pick & choose who we would be bound to protect...all people are owed our love.
I have no wife or children...but thats beside the point.
Are u ready to deliver the innocent unborn or partially born with deadly force?
Ben Joseph you are a pacifist. I respect that. I have no problem with that at all. I on the other hand am not.
Shooting abortionists is counter productive to the proliferation movement. It does not move opinion our way. Opinion is moving our way.
If someone tried to hurt my wife or children and I was forced to take their life. I would. I would not allow them to hurt my family. If you would then you and I disagree. I do however understand your view.
check out Desmond Doss in Hacksaw Ridge.
To ALL, I'm ex LEO and a devout follower of Our Lord Christ. Are you kidding? There is so much Christ said about these isues. Christ asked just before going to Getsemany. "Do we have any swords" (paraphrased). The Aposteles said "We have two Lord, Jesus said that is enough". Also He said, "The officerdoes not carry the sword for nothing." Also, The day will come when one will sell his coat to buy a sword" (Luke 22:36). "Do not throw your pearls to swine, for they will rip you assunder". My truth and my cheek are pearls! Christ Himself will return to destroy the wicked till the blood rises up to the bridles.(In Revelation). We are not to be whimpy christians according to Christ! If one does not care for his own he is considered a infidel. To turn the other cheek to a beast? No! I will to one who mighy respond to that like a fellow servant. People read "THE WORD", ALL of IT! Are you people kiding? It is a terible thing to land in the hands of an Angry God! I'm not going to say where in scripyure these writtings are. Find them. They are there, I assure you. Look them up!
hey criminals watching this,"None of my guns are loaded" guy, is a good victim to hit first. Of course I'm kidding. Fellow Christians and non Christians. Develop a plan in your home. Secure your firearms, but be ready. You may as well use your pistol as a club if it isn't loaded. My point being if it IS secure, then keep it in ready fire state! If evil comes to visit upon you and your family,you have an obligation to be ready. It doesn't mean we live in fear. On the contrary. It is a freeing,and empowering feeling to train,and be ready to the best of our abilities! We owe it to others to battle evil when the time comes.I find it annoying that some pastors feel the need to almost apologize like the man did here when he said none of his guns are loaded. If you are a member of his church,I would tell him,(With love and respect) you never have to worry about offending me for having guns in your home. You never have to worry about offending me about being a shepherd who loves his flock this way,if need be use deadly force! I suspect this hesitancy comes from criticisms he's heard from others. News stories,whatever. All of us need to stand with our pastors and support them this way. Stop being Milquetoast fools!
Turning the other cheek is being forgiving. By all means protect yourself and family... teach them to shoot... war is coming.
What if the law says you're not allowed to carry anything for the purpose of self-defense? This is the law where I live.
Move somewhere that preserves your rights.
I have often asked:
" Do we love until it kills us
or
Love until we have to kill? "
The real question is not what is _justifiable_ according to the city, state or country's law, or the Natural law of self-protection - but more in the eyes, or really the *_'Heart'_* of God.
We are all forgiven and don't have to be concerned with whether or not it will be considered "justified and forgivable" by God, (it will) but more importantly - what are we called to do to be that sweet aroma of love for pleasing God, and isn't eternity where it all really matters?
I imagine I'd utilize a .357mag pistol or 5.56 rifle to protect my dog from a wild animal, and in the heat of the moment would do the same to protect a family member, friend or innocent bystander,
but what is right in the eternal course of God's sacrificial and obedient love when it come to *self* - defense?
If God has promised to be "For us" and to provide _all our needs,_ then the question remains,
*Do we love until it kills us - or - love until we have to kill?*
I'm a Christian and I Believe like Samson, David, Chuck Norris ETC..WHO ARE CHRISTIANS Who are warriors fighters in the faith! Let's put it in plain English! Face your fears love it and fuck the enermy or they will fuck you up period!
I have to protect my little brother from streets mens. Can i ?
Yes..if only last resort and no other way..you can protect you and your family with lethal force.
Although I appreciate you bringing up the topic there is nowhere near enough scripture in your discussion. Praying for you
The hard question should be; Can this WOMAN be a PASTOR of the church?
No the Bible says no
I believe that only applies to the Bible in their times nowadays a woman can be a pastor. My mom's friend is a pastor and you feel God their at her services.
Rachelle Blan the Bible doesn’t change no matter what time
My interpretation of the scripture, is not to allow someone to provoke you into a physical fight. Turning the cheek shows incredible courage and that you have the intellect to resolve differences without taking physical action, it also shows a commitment to loving your enemy. Now, should the offender strike you a second time. I believe that you have every right to defend yourself without using lethal force, you could decide to only block and deflect kicks and punches. Without any offensive strike's, God will see you are in a position to be harmed and yet still don't strike someone who has pitted themselves as your enemy. God could send good hearted people to your Aid and often the fight/altercation will be over. I too like the man in the Video, would hope and have prayed that I would never be tested in such a way. To take a life could very well change the nature of your very soul, But I would risk my life to save loved one's. The action would not be one of malice, nor one made with a hateful heart. I would be sorrowful and even mourn their lose and the lose of my Peaceful innocence. May God protect those who praise and worship with a true and pure heart, may our enemies always be placed far from our presence.
Killing isn’t justified. You can’t bend the word of GOD to suite the times we are even warned about this. GOD will protect us but ultimately we shouldn’t kill. We should never consider it an option.
If it's necessary to do that when any other option doesn't exist, you should be ready otherwise you will not be able to do your duty to protect your loved ones and the society when it's needed. To regret afterwards, losing someone you love because you have the wrong mindset, is too late. Remember, it is in the ten commandments to not kill other humans but God told the Israelites to eliminate their enemies as they entered the promised land, with no mercy. We have to know how to separate and understand what God means by that.
The Lord Christ has given the strictest of commands for his faithful brethren & sisters regarding self-defence and using violence.
"38 You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
39 But I say to you, Do not resist the evil man [who injures you]; but
if anyone strikes you on the right jaw or cheek, turn to him the other
one too.
40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your undershirt (tunic), let him have your coat also.
41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two [miles].
42 Give to him who keeps on begging from you, and do not turn away from him who would borrow from you.
43 You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy;
44 But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
Matt 5:38-44 (AMP.BIBLE)
They are not to use violence to any human being just as Christ warned Peter when he cut off the ear of one of the men attempting to arrest him.
In fact, even soldiers, when becoming believers ask about their position before God.
To which St. John replied:
"14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them,
**Do violence to no man**, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages."
Luke 3:14 (KJV)
It's therefore impossible to obey Christ and become a gun totting police officer or a soldier in the military or any other occupation where the harming of human beings is concerned.
"43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you,
Love your enemies:
bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you,
45 That ye may be the children of your father that is in heaven:"
Matt 5:42-45 (Geneva Bible)
Harming your enemy is forbidden, even at the point of losing your life, along with those whom you love most dearly.
"36 Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
Romans 8:35-36 (ASV) Amen!
You better load your guns pastor
War is not murder, self defence is not Murder.
Murder is pre meditated Evil.
Law of Moses says, Deu 19 (NKJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁴ "And this is the case of the manslayer who flees there, that he may live: Whoever kills his neighbor UNINTENTIONALLY, NOT HAVING HATED him in time past--
…
⁶ lest the avenger of blood, while his anger is hot, pursue the manslayer and overtake him, because the way is long, and kill him, though he was not deserving of death, SINCE he had NOT HATED the VICTIM in time past.
Turning the other cheek applies specifically to when somebody slaps you, in Matthew it states its specifically when they smite your right cheek. That's what the Bible says.
YouthFreedomFighters ya but what if you get punched or if someone is gonna attempt to kill you and or your loved ones would go on the defense and besides that, even the Bible says that King David was a warrior king and had defended against isrials enemies.
Richard Haley ya , these people that preach that stuff are not Christian people they are something else. God threw Lucifer out on his ass . Big war In heaven right , why even fight if not ALLOWED. SEE they are dangerous and need to be out on his ass li ke Lucifer.
don't be legalistic about it, that's like saying you're supposed to forgive people 490 times because Jesus said to forgive people 70 x 7 times. He meant you forgive endlessly.
@@raneanubis Your point?
@@YouthFreedomFighters My point is if you take that verse literally you'll not only miss the entire point of what Jesus is saying but you open yourself up to more problems such as deciding what to do when someone punches you instead of slapping. Jesus didn't say anything about punching specifically so what does that mean. Do you get my point?
@ 3:08 "....none of my weapons are loaded...." The it is not a weapon. What is the point of having it?
There is a tremendous amount of history in this question!! During the time of Jesus and the Apostles (when the NT was written approximately), Christians were a small minority group that was often persecuted by the state of Rome. -Almost snuffed out at times over the 200-300 years until Constantine made it legal! -Later, another emperor made it the "official Roman" religion (later in the 4th century?)... -Through the next 1200-1500 years of European history, church and state became inter-twined. -First with vaious Kings/Queens converting and leading (or demanding) their people to conversion, then, more democratic or representative democratic states appeared (maybe Dutch or English being among the first?)... When these rep democratic states appeared, they adopted various laws concerning themselves. Most of the laws they adopted were not new and in fact based on Judeo-Christian, Roman, or Greek laws from the past. These laws had to do with the empowerment of the state to protect itself (i.e., Romans 13 from Apostle Paul). Despite the fact that every one of those governments was or is flawed in some way, they are a meager attempt by Christians and Others to put in place governments that are tolerant of one another's ways and religions. Many younger people today would rather just let the representative constitutional government of the USA "go into the waste bin" of history rather than stand up and fight for its principles based on the value that they bring and have brought in the past to human societies as a whole. -I think this is a wrong attitude. We (present generation of humans) should understand that where we are today as a society is due to the often great price paid for us to be at this point (in terms of blood and treasure). It would be a shame if "next gen" just decides to not fight for their rights as US Citizens and instead takes a "as long as it doesnt affect me" stance on our basic freedoms. In the process of choosing not to fight for those freedoms, the generation that so chooses will be consigning their own generation and possibly many others to a life of slavery, because that is what Christians were subjected to during the 200-300 years during and after the lives of Jesus and the Apostles. So, time has passed and history had proven that there *are* fundamental human rights that should be and must be preserved even with our lives and at the expense of the lives of others if needed to prevent those rights from being violated. -It is never an easy thing for anyone to kill anyone else. But if the "anyone else" is threatening your life or the lives of others, and you are armed and have the ability to stop them (in a position to take an accurate shot), you would be amiss if you did not do so. -And you would regret your lack of decision to do so later on (maybe by losing your life or the lives of those you love). So based on teachings of scripture and almost 2000 years of development of Judeo-Christian culture in the west, we have rights to personally defend ourselves and to use violence to preserve those rights for ourselves and others if and when it is called for. We should never take lightly the responsibility that comes with the history and granting of those rights!
The thing is. Idk because the bible says not to lean towards your own understanding. but any disagreement that christians have, that have two sides that both use scripture is clearly a misunderstanding on one's part. so that means that you should probably not worry about it. And if you ever get into the debated situation as an Ambassador of Christ, then you might know the answer then. You will understand when god is ready for you to understand.
In your video contending for self desfense, thier is a command against actions towards people, Matthew 5:39 states plainly to not resist an evil person which will explain matthew 5 dealing with turning the other cheek and seeing Jesus and his disciples being an doormat while being beating and killed while not repaying the same action for thier visual example harmonizing with his verbal teachings. 1 pet 3:9, rom 12:17. And prov 20:22 says to not pay evil with evil,so obviously evil being done to you is harmful or lethal force in this case but also when talking about killing an burgler in your home in dueteronomy Jesus says to not demand back what is taken-stolen from you luke 6:30, so using force to stop the person from stealing is a demanding action
When it comes to luke 22:36, it is true Jesus had no rebuke for us to have a sword or carry one but the application in Matthew 26:50-52 is contrary to His teachings which is why He rebuked peter for trying to protect Him and if it was not ok to lethaly protect God whom we put above all, how much more that we do not protect everything else with lethal or harmful violent force! Self,family,enemy,property and nations residing.
He had no intention in using us for His protection because prophecy had to be fulfilled and He plainly stated that if He needed help He would call on 12 legions of angels to deal with the issue. Jesus commanded us to not resist because in John 18:36 He told Pontius Pilate that His Kingdom was no longer of this realm otherwise He would have us protect Him and the Kingdom with force. But also if what peter did was an isolated incident and it was ok to bare arms against people, Jesus would have only rebuked peter for again hindering Him from doing Fathers will as peter did the first time after he confessed Jesus was the Christ. Satan had persuaded Peter to rebuke Jesus for predicting that He must die. But Jesus rebuked peter for applying the sword unjustly because it was not commanded by Jesus period, notice the others asked Jesus if they should draw the sword knowing His teachings but uncertain of what to do knowing they were allowed to carry the swords. while Peter acted rashly with hatred and without permission.
Jesus rebuked Peter and ALL those who whould act as Peter did that day in the heart and in action by living by such violence you will die by it, not just physically because many have lived by it but died naturally so He was strongly implying that they will die in thier sins. To live by violence can be in thought and action, sense Jesus studies and judges the heart a person could always be prepared to kill in defense without ever having to apply it and still be guilty of unjust anger being contempt towards life. We cannot perfectly be wrathful and take vengeance as God to still be just.
When it comes to john the Baptist not addressing the soldiers, we must see that He was an Old Covenant Prophet and was just making the way for the Lord as Jesus was the fullness of Fathers Teachings and revealer of mysteries. what ever Father wanted Jesus to say He said according to His will, Jesus would be the New Covenant Prophet sense through His death the New Covenant was initiated. It is His teachings we would follow and His example we would imitate.
When it comes to romans 13 let us pay attention to context of who the rod of anger is and what they must do to be used by God to punish and judge evil with the sword 1 coronthians 5:12-13. These agents of punishment must take revenge and pour out wrath, both of these attitudes we must put away and was not commanded of us in the OT dueteronomy 32:35;romans 12:19 and in the NT Ephesians 2:3-5,ephesians 4:31,colossians 3:8,galatians 5:20 and james 1:19-20
But i think the focus of non-violence is
Romans 12:21
Romans 13:10
If you love your neighbor as yourself and do unto your neighbor as you would want unto you, you will not want to have contempt for life, nor putting ready in your heart to kill and harm but show love,mercy and compassion just as stephen had done before he died by his enemies. Nor Paul who after almost being beating to death never used his Roman privilages to do harm to them nor wielded a weapon in defense, chose out of love to address them again and plea with them for thier salvation. We should have the same attitude as Paul who with Gods sacrifical Love would seek to trade places with his condemned bretheren so they may live instead of putting it in our hearts that they may suffer even though just.
There is no physical example of Jesus or His disciples that promote your view on war and defense, with all opportunities to record such "approved" actions if Jesus did advocate it, thier is not one moment any confrontation led to a christian to wield a weapon or use thier fists. The sword can simply be understood to help us hunt and or protect against aggressive animals-think about the areas they would be traveling in by foot or donkey-camel-the wilderness, i have been in situations as a non-violent christian towards people that i had to pick up a rock or draw a pocket knife to defend myself against stray dogs while walking around or doing ministry. The physical sword is for animals amd utility purposes while the spiritual sword is for demolishing strongholds to submit rebellion 2 Corinthians 10:3-5
Let us also look at the example of Matthew 22 where Jesus used the Roman empire as His army to judge israel in the fulfilled prophecy in 70AD, sense the hebrews were our enemy according to the gospel although elect according to the fathers, God would have used Christians amongst the Romans to punish the defiant hebrews in israel, but we were not amongst the ranks. if God allowed romans 13 to be binding also on the church, why do we not see historically christian soldiers attacking israel either through the roman army or through a Godly army? I hope you see my point, God does not teach that we can punish evil with the sword through government agencies because we are commanded to never take revenge and put away wrath
Joseph Kuzara I have been wondering about this and I belive your take Here at the end "God does not teach that we can punish evil with the sword through
government agencies because we are commanded to never take revenge and
put away wrath" is rightious and Godly!!
May you continue to persue peace, and Preach Fathers Peace to understand Gods purpose for His Loving Children. They will know Jesus Disciples by thier love for eachother and the Love we have and are to act upon is the same Love Jesus has towards us.
In the end a better perspective of our non-violence is that God has appointed a day when He will take vengeance on all those who afflicted us.
Selfless Love is so important that it is sums up Gods Law.
The eye for an eye reference is not about not punishing evil, per se. It was Jesus clearing up misconceptions. Go back and read it. He says,"You have heard it said..." He explained it was civil authorities' duty to administer justice of crimes committed against another person(and others,obviously). Not that you don't have a right to defend yourself. Taken out of context, this scripture often used as the benchmark for a quasi-spiritual,new covenant understanding of violence. read Proverbs 25:26 I believe it is all of our duty to not falter when facing evil. All decent citizens have an obligation to protect the innocent. But punishment for crimes directly against us, (For instance assault,rape,battery,slander )are not up to us individually(yes,in some cases misdemeanor crimes can be dismissed), rather the government of which we are subject to.If it were,we would have chaos.
+aneyesky christianity is a religion of peace yet God will reserve two prophets in Rev 11 to divinely warn the nations of Gods coming Wrath and to Trust and Glorify Jesus. But the rest of the church must abide in non-violence towards people. Our fight is not with flesh and blood but with Satan and his angelic army, our weapons against human rebelers and Satan is the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God. In Matthew 5.39 Jesus says to not resist (#436 anthistemi) evil with violent force and in Romans 13.1-10, God commands us to not oppose (#498 antitassomai)any Government on earth with violent force and a militia because then we will be opposing( #436)God with the same force. God also said in Romans 13 that all the government's are agents used to punish evil with vengeance and wrath and because of this no Christian is granted any position within the Governments that uphold positions that lead to the death of anyone. Christians were never to partake in secular politics nor enforce the standards of God through the countries policies and penalties within such seats of authority. To influence a secular person to uphold justice and righteousness according to the Lord is one thing but it is not our jurisdiction to administer such decisions and execute penalties personally in any government or private office that requires it. As Christians we do not take vengeance in Romans 12:19 but also do not walk in wrath: Ephesians2.3-5; 4:31;Colossians 3:8;Galtians 5:20;James 1:19-20. And what is due to this government IF owed is only taxes,honor and respect, Not political, judicial and civilian defense services.
Christians are only permitted by Jesus to flee persecution,lay our lifedown for our loved ones non-violently and use the government for our protection to thwart death of self or others. But every Christian but those two prophets must walk in non-violence towards People. Jesus set this example and the Apostles imitated and why when the Hebrew Nation and the Roman Empire waged war against us, no christian militia nor individual violent resistance was executed against these two government's, God used Rome to punish Israel in 70 CE and not the Righteouss.
There are many christian cults whom profess Jesus and kill in Gods name the RCC and Islam being the two greatest whom present a false jesus and false works gospel from jesus. But true Christianity is blameless of this matter.
You are a rare find brother. Continue to spread the truth of the Gospel.
There should be nothing wrong with owning guns to protect yourself. I am peaceful however I would not think twice about shooting someone who is trying to kill me or others. It shouldn't be just about protecting your children. Its about protecting people in general . I don't even know why this is a topic of discussion. It's just common sense.
So if a guy has a gun to my head, just let him shoot me and don’t defend myself and try to survive, I love god but I question this stuff a lot
Gods ok with self defense and protecting others just ask him for permission before you fight
You know jesus spoke in metaphors and riddles mostly to convey principles rTher than to give specific instuructions.. how do youbread the bible and not go insane? You must know the God youbworship to know his heart and mind. What that verse means is that you shouldnt defend yourself out of Ego|pride.
We need to learn to be strong mentally and physically so that the evil doesn't opress us and waste our time.
He wouldn't have created and allowed a law and enforcement system if it was not self defence.
My question is, hoe must we react in a school or college bully situation?
Surely God will send help or give us the way to escalate out of the situation.
Some may say, we must complain to teachers, but it doesn't work everywhere, they just don't have that fear, for such situations, what must a christian student be doing?
Where there is no momentary escape
Turning the other cheek is a Christ like disposition of humility... Do you folks think David lacked this ability? No, but there was a job at hand... If it were today, I bet he'd have a .45 .
I just don't see how David can protect his animals, Defend the armies of God only to put his tools down if he were to be attacked at home. No,no,no.
It's alright for a Christian to defend himself, just look at lebanon, Christians have survived wars and persecution by being armed to the teeth, we fought isis, we fought Muslims in the Civil War trying to kick us out, we fought Palestinians that tried to kill us. We have 2 saints that fought the ottomans when they attacked churches. We won every wat they tried to wage on us, and here we are still living in lebanon, nobody till the Civil War tried to mess with Christians. We have heavy weapons under monasteries and churches, plus we have guns at home.
Should a Christian defend himself or herself? You bet
Leave it to a corporate Christian who falsely believes to twist the word of God.
Turn the other cheek
Matthew 5:38's context is on insults towards you. Not physical harm.
But also to think God will protect us from all physical harm is foolish we live in a fallen world. Not to say he wont in many cases. But to think the odds are low that something wont happen to you is foolish. In Luke 22 Jesus even tells the desiples to ensure they get weapons if they do not already. To claim to be a Christ follower & be anti gun in this day and age is a moral failure to your neighbor. & how are we to rescue the week & needy from wicked people Proverbs 25:26
I say this not to say take up arms or whatever youd think. But because Christians are to be protectors, & messengers of this world.
Other than that not bad on yalls end.
The bearded man at 2:13 has already denounced the instruction of the Lord Christ: "26 “If people come to me and are not ready to abandon their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as their own lives, they cannot be my disciples.
27 So those who do not carry their crosses and follow me cannot be my disciples".
Luke 14:25-27 (GW)
He admitted he would be willing to injure even kill any intruder if they broke into his home and were going to harm his family.
Has he never read "36 Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter".
Romans 8:35-36 (ASV)
He and the rest have also forgotten: "Then some men came forward, took hold of Jesus, and arrested him.
51 Suddenly, one of the men with Jesus pulled out his sword and cut off the ear of the chief priest's servant.
52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword away! All who use a sword will be killed by a sword.
53 Don't you think that I could call on my Father to send more than twelve legions of angels to help me now? 54 How, then, are the Scriptures to be fulfilled that say this must happen?”
Matthew 26:50-54 (GW)
Why are they not loaded ???
Thought shall not kill. Tell that to the politicians that claim to be Christian but a start wars over religion
False brethren!
I got into an argumentation w a girl bc before I got saved I sayed that she can't sing and then she started "insulting" me tbh i got anry and used words i shouldn't but i never insultef her I was just defending my opinion
Sadly the bearded man to his own condemnation loves his wife and family far more then he loves Christ.
"He turned around and addressed them as follows: 26 "Anyone who wants to be my follower must love me far more than he does his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, or sisters-yes, more than his own life-otherwise he cannot be my disciple"
Luke 14:25-26 (TLB)
"20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, **Do not kill**, Do not steal"
Luke 18:20 (KJV)
"if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt **do no murder**, Thou shalt not commit adultery...."
Matt 19:17-18 (KJV)
Christ REBUKED Peter for using a weapon on another human being:
"Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:50-52 (ANIV)
So how can you be a father or husband if you can't protect your family? I don't think he's saying he loves his family more than the Lord but he sure as heck loves them more than the person trying to harm them. He might be willing to love his attacker more than himself but clearly not more than his family.
“But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels.’ Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.” “Look, Lord,” they replied, “we have two swords among us.” “That’s enough,” he said.
Luke 22:36-38 NLT
And how do you interpret these verses? Given the fact they showed him two literal swords I highly doubt it was a metaphor. And we all know how literally the disciples took what Jesus said. If they were metaphorical or spiritual swords I highly doubt the disciples would have understood that right away. And then Jesus' reply seems just as literal to their literal response.
And yet, Peter didn't die by the sword, but by being crucified upside down.
Why did Jesus rebuke Peter for using the sword? After all, Jesus told him to go get one!
Jesus was looking at Peter's heart, which was not in the right place.
Peter had slept when he should have been praying, which led to his very carnal reactions during the arrest and trial. Peter was not acting out of love, but out of fear. Furthermore, Jesus had told them He was going to be betrayed and would die. And Peter had tried to correct Jesus. So Peter's reaction with the sword in the garden came out of that same spirit, which Jesus rebuked with "get thee behind me, Satan!"
Is all "taking the sword" from that same spirit?
Obviously not, since God not only approved of war, but actually commanded it!
In fact, you'll find the Spirit of God came upon certain ones in Israel, in battle, giving them tremendous ability to kill enemies!
That's the same Holy Spirit that fell on the Day of Pentecost, by the way.
And God doesn't change.
His standard of right and wrong, of moral compass, cannot change.
God actually said that to fail to protect the defenseless, is wrong.
It's listed alongside judging unjustly and accepting the persons of the wicked.
Psalm 82:1-4
@@maryellen6153 stated: "Peter didn't die by the sword, but by being crucified upside down."
As he obeyed his Lord thereafter and did not use it for harming human beings"
Now, asked the many millions of professing Christians who recklessly died in the two World Wars for using the sword against the command of their Lord, and worst of all against their enemies. Which the Lord Christ has forbidden.
"44 But I say unto you, LOVE your ENEMIES bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you, 45 That ye may be the children of your father that is in heaven:"
Matthew 5:44-45 (Geneva Bible)
And again we read: "12 Then came there Publicans also to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? 13 And he said unto them, Require no more than that which is appointed unto you.
14 The soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely, and be content with your wages."
Luke 3:12-14 (Geneva Bible)
And once again the Lord forbids violence even when personally attacked:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to oppose an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn your other cheek to him as well."
Matthew 5:38-39 (GW)
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332
And yet, if all that is true, then why are there so many true testimonials from those wars, telling of miraculous answers to prayer on the battlefields, divine assistance - sometimes visible angels - to defeat the enemy?
@@maryellen6153 You mean of Christians killing Christians in violent Wars and then thanking God for their glorious victories over their ENEMIES?
What does the Lord Christ declare:
"43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, **Love your enemies**: "
How can anyone love them and then kill them at the same time?
"Bless them that curse you: do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which hurt you, and persecute you, 45 That ye may be the children of your father that is in heaven"
Matt 5:43-45 (GenevaBible)
How can anyone bless and do good to enemies, yet hate and kill them at the same time?
Ok. This is not even a question. A Christian is not only able to but is commanded to defend his life and his family and other innocent people around them.
Where?
"study Roman culture on slapping the right cheek and walking a mile " there's an answer there. There discussion is incomplete
The Commandment is "Love others as I have loved you." (John 13:34, 15:12) Did He shoot you or kill you when you kept on messing up? It is a HIGH calling. If you won't even say you will trust Him in a hypothetical situation, you most certainly will not in an actual situation.
Pastors who do not quote Jesus when answering questions are themselves highly questionable. "You are not mindful of the things of God but the things of man." (Matthew 16:23)
You have non-hunting firearms, and you say, "I hope they will never be used." Try that line when your wife finds prophylactics in your pants pocket. Immediately, you know it's a lie, and you pretended you believed it because you REFUSED TO TRUST JESUS. A set-apart, peculiar people.
OKandNOWwhat Nobody is suggesting that you convert by sword. Self defense is the topic. Tell me, why does it say in Ecclesiastes that there is a time for peace and a time for war? Yet it also says that God will require of those who kill a man in Genesis? Why would God, who never changes, command the Israelites to wipe out the others in the promised land?
The world is not full of evil people but people why see evil and do nothing
What does the Bible say about women in the pulpit?
It says they suck
stupid issue! Do you still have to ask or make an issue out of what is obvious? Whether you are a Christian or not, you should defend your self from an intruder who will injure you and your love one. The problem with some Christian is they interpret the bible as it commands you to become a saint or a martyr.
God will also help those who help themselves... I know it's a personal thing whether to defend yourself or not... All I can tell you is your kung fu, or your baseball bat won't mean a thing when some Thug armed with whatever weapon he or she will choose, decides to break and enter. And If you don't care enough about yourself and family member's to properly protect them from many types of harm what kind of person are you anyway? God bless and good luck being a soft target...
Amen 🙏🏻
I do not trust the theology of a show that endorses women pastors
true
I don't either.I believe that women should never be religious leaders at all.I believe it's a man's world.
chutdiggadigga first thing I thought
That way of thinking is idiotic
Women are not aloud that I don't think true
The faithless using the Bible to justify their actions. God's will be done, rather or not you have a weapon is irrelevant. Saying your going to keep a gun to defend yourself is a total lack of faith and doesn't separate you from the non-believers. Defending can be done without harming or killing a man, and killing a man won't always defend you (legal/mental repercussions,etc.). I say this as a former member of the Georgia Army National Guard in the 1/121 (infantry unit) Headquarters and as someone who has seen what firearms can and will do up close, I hardly see how you can love you enemy whilst doing something so horrible to him. Using the excuse "I wanna defend my family" is silly. God can destroy heaven and Earth, but not keep you and yours save? True Christians are called to do what is seemingly impossible. Old testament verse that nobody seems to remember Daniel 3:23-25. Their FAITH in God saved them, not the sword. So to use Old Testament verses to try and justify self defense, is tantamount to saying all homosexuals should be put to death. Taking verses out of context is twisting the scriptures to your on way of thinking.
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. (Luke 6:27-31, NIV)
If there were any "buts" or "ands" Jesus would have mentioned them. Give me a reasonable verse in the New Testament that promotes self-defense. The only time I've seen violence used was by Peter who was instantly rebuked by Jesus: "And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear. Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword."
wrong ^^
It's a difficult one. Check out Hacksaw Ridge....
Δούλος του Ιησού Χριστού And yet what if God is to use you for judgement against someone?
He rebuked him because he was interrupting that which was necessary and planned by God- His crucifixion. He told His disciples to "go buy a sword" I suppose He meant to keep it in a glass case, report it to the government and only use it for hunting. Read the Bible instead of skimming it.
Δούλος του Ιησού Χριστού lol your full of it
Go buy a sword. We already have them. Summary of a conversation between Jesus and His disciples. Do you suppose they planned to hunt with them?
Zach Foxtrot, do be careful when you use scripture to support your thinking. In Luke 22:36 the sword was meant to fulfill prophecy which you would know if you continued reading. And even if it applied the word "sword" literally translates from a work knife and not a war sword which would be a necessity and would mean to be ready. And lastly we have a father in heaven why not just trust him instead of putting our trust in our own self
Just admit it: this is a problem on Christianity.
I believe it teaches us to resolve issues without violence, but when called up on to defend yourself and your family. A man must do what needs to be done, yet he must not take joy from his action nor do things that are heinous or malicious. The Bible doesn't tell us to surrender to our enemies, we are to trust that God will protect us and give us strength and guidance when we are called up on to be tested.
Sweety Loz Could you show were it says that?
Tremendous number of examples in the old testimate, new testimate does not focus on empires, wars or kings like the old testimate but it is still valid for teaching and examples. King David killed his enemys.
this isn't a problem if you trust and believe in god. Just do it and you'll believe it aswell.
While no one wants to be attacked and bullied, let alone wanting to see their loved one offended, there comes a time to 'turn the other cheek', and be self sacrificing. Being a martyr for Christ, for instance, is one!
but u dont address the case of non-persecution situations like attacking rapists etc. why?
+Bernard Popp
rape attacks
Revelations 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death._ The fearful or Cowardly. If you think God would just have you stand or bow before your enemies so that they may take everything he has gave you namely your life, you have no idea what a Martyr is. A Martyr died because he stand up and defends the word of the Lord, God. Christian's will not go like sheep to the slaughter, our heart is Lion strong and our words are like the roar of a lion; for we speak the language of the law. Truth!!! I pray and hope the World never needs to call again on the Christians of the World to defend with Sword and blood to protect our rights and laws sent down to us by God. Hitler and Nazism fell to Hell by the might sword of Christianity. Who can stand against God, no one!!
We arent talking martyrdom, were talking _Murder._ Youre not advancing the kingdom by letting yourself by butchered in your own home.
Jon Brou It does not say martyr your family dummy . God threw Lucifer out on his ass . Big fight in heaven really A war. God kills evil.. You are A political activist you are not Christian. We are not Jesus And Jesus had big guns behind him u know all the power of the universe. JESUS NEVER GAVE UP POWER JESUS KEEPS ALL OF HIS POWER EVEN BUSTED IN TO HELL. JESUS WOULD HAVE OWNED AN AR15..FOR SURE. JESUS NEVER WANTS YOU TO GIVE UP YOUR POWER AND INDEPENDENCE. JESUS ROSE HE NEVER DIED I WOULD NOT MIND Dying if I could come back in a day I mean what the hell is that. JESUS was the king he wanted you to be A good person but to do what he did would be an insult to him. He knows u can't . And Jesus Protects his friends and family that's why u don't know about them...
*WHAT ABOUT...*
Turning the other cheek?
Kenneth White
Turning the other cheek is in the context of forgiveness, as the Lord is teaching believers how it is to live with all humbleness and meekness toward other people. Self-defense is another subject. A believer has the right to defend himself in a situation where he sees his life is threatened and that of others. A believer does not sin against God when defending himself and others in a situation where he feels his life is in danger. A believer can forgive those who persecute him, but not to turn his back against an attacker if he knows his life is in peril. In Exodus 22:2-3, If a thief broke into a house at night, he would have to fear the homeowner, who would not be able to determine an intruder’s intentions, whether he is after the property or harm to the occupants. The homeowner would not be at fault for killing the thief. Notice, however, that even the thief’s life was valued; because if a thief broke in during the daytime (when his intentions would be clear) and were killed by the owner, then the owner would be guilty of murder. While reasonable self-defense is recognized in Scripture, value for human life is the rule. And I believe it is a matter of judging the situation and/or circumstances that the act can be justified or not in the light of God’s moral standard.
Raphael so this guy was talking and basically saying bad stuff about me, my friend wants to fight him for me, is that a sin?
Edgar Aleksanyan
My friend, first of all; what we are discussing here is self-defense; not retaliation or getting even.
The Lord is teaching us meekness and humbleness. We are even told to love our enemies and pray for them. We are not following the Lord’s teaching and commandments if we are to hurt our enemies. And just because they spoke bad things about us doesn’t mean we can do the same to them. Romans 12:21 says “Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.” The Bible is very clear in teaching us believers to be forgiving. And I believe that is not an easy thing to do when you are not living by the Spirit. Only a Spirit led person can do the Lord’s teaching, for example in Matthew 18:21-22. So, yes, you sin against God when you are not doing and following the Lord’s teaching and commandments- which is to love even your enemies.
Raphael ok thank you soo much 🙏
@Colt Wayne
If they repent of their sins and turn to God for forgiveness, they can still be forgiven (Matthew 18:21-22; Isaiah 1:18). Can you show one text in the Bible that says they can never be forgiven?
God's ten commandments are simple #6 thou shall not kill! If your a true believer and god is offering you eternal life it's a simple choice don't kill . America is a death culture and most Americans have forsaken God and replaced him with the false Gods of the founding fathers .
ThE BeSt ! NO!!!
THESEADOG82 Sorry but the founding fathers are more quoted than the word of God today , on issues of death culture in America (Guns). Your feelings and facts are two different things .
God said not to kill innocents.
but god allowed many Jews and prophets to kill intruders
for selfdefence
All this debate is about definitions & translations. The commandment is not "Thou shall not kill" but "Thou shall not commit MURDER". Self defense / home defense / protecting your family is NOT murder. If an attacker dies because of HIS decision to steal or kill, the sin is his, NOT the person who resisted the evil.
"Turn the other cheek" refers to an insult or minor incident LIKE GETTING A SLAP. Nothing life threatening there, so walk away. But if your life is in peril Jesus instructed us to sell our coat and buy a sword! The matter seems settled to me.
benthere422 your rong original text is a clean translation thou shall not kill. (Kjv) new kjv is impossible king James has been dead for 100's of years.that should raise? ???'s by it's self!!!before you jump on me DO THE RESEARCH (go back to the original text. strongs concordance will help)