@@pennzilla57lol in a previous video he talked in depth about why Mihu does that that nobody does. Then he understood it’s to avoid early probe harassment.
Hey Artosis, I just wanted to mention you said something like "Sorry I'm sort of long winded with these explanations sometimes" around the 3:38 mark - I just wanted to say those long-winded explanations getting into the nitty-gritty minutia of Broodwar is exactly what I love about your content. Anways, thanks for all your work I love your Broodwar content!
Want to chime in this time to say that if you want to add extra analysis after the game any time, definitely go for it! It's cool for anyone who is interested and super easy to ignore for anyone who's not, so there's no downside to tagging on a little extra if it's something you want to do yourself anyway.
Think of it this way: if your army loses the fight, all the SCVs are dying anyway. If given the choice between losing the fight and losing all your SCVs, vs winning the fight and losing half of your SCVs, you pick the second option every time.
I was so impressed. So impressive. When the ai behaved like an ai I actually died from how impressed I was. When I unlocked my phone to call 911 I was so impressed. They were so impressed.
I can see this going one of three ways: 1) Flash really is this rusty and needs time to get back into form. 2) Flash is 5D chess trolling with weird builds in public ladder replays, and pulls out the real shit for tournaments. 3) The wildcard option. Flash playing 10D chess and has Scan playing with his hotkeys for the laughs 5Head
Artosis, your encyclopedic knowledge of competitive Brood War is what makes your SC content better than literally everyone else who does this. Be long-winded. Analyze everything. We're here for it.
I can't believe how Flash has so much. Those upgrades felt so fast and all. That said, this would have gone very differently with a bit better Reaver micro.
Dont forget he played vs 2300, went CC first, 3rd CC fast and literally got away with the greediest player ever try this vs same skilled players and ure dead
@@kevinf.2556 Are you talking about this game? Arty said near the beginning that DICNoob is "2500 - 2600 easy" and yes as John pointed out, this was a 15CC not a 14CC (CC first). They are quite different in my opinion and the opinion of many others, but yes your point is probably a greedy early expand opener, which it is. He even skips marines for a while without scouting opponent, so this is very greedy in my opinion. So yeah, he got ahead right from the get-go and 'holds' that lead for the early game until the Dragoon bust. Arty agrees with you though, that if you try this greedy build vs Best, Snow, Mini, Rain, etc., Flash is probably dead. I thought so too, he had so few units...that 3rd CC seemed like a bad call but as Arty analyzed, not sure how much more units he really could of had there...
I think the biggest factor this game for the attack at 7:08 was him floating his barracks for scouting. If he hadn't done that, or instead put a structure there, those dragoons would not have been able to get on top of the two tanks on lowground or get to the ramp.
Do more of these post game jump back-analysis plz. I often just end up doing it myself... pausing the video... going back... looking around. Asking "how did he do that?" "What could he have done Better?" Like in one of the first flash back games he goes for a fast drop ship vs reaver and vulture speed... Toss just expanding super fast 5 base... My Brain = "If this was Mind he would have put 2 tanks in that ship and be roaming with vultures looking to kill a nexus..." But Flash is the Goat... sooo... eh?
It is pretty hard to stop 3rd nexus anyway due to terran's poor mobility. Maybe countering it by taking your own third is the way, if you can pull it off against reaver.
Why do you need to stop the 3rd nexus when you have a 3rd CC that fast. Flash scouted everything perfectly, saw the early robo, saw the shuttle coming in
Love your casts, been fun watching Flash again Been watching your casts for a while, and I feel like you give more insight to Terran and Zerg than Protoss. Talking about their builds, timings, strength, weaknesses and what the players are thinking during the game. I would love to get more insight into Protoss as well to understand their side better if possible.
Flash is one of the only Terrans that truly uses Terran buildings as walls to close off areas of the map from frontal attacks + adds missile turrets to mine fields.
Really appreciate the post-game analyses. I've never even played SC1, so I really love the high level analysis of - this is the weakness of Upgrade Terran - this is what Flash is doing the same/differently - this is what he's trying to figure out/what he needs to figure out Super cool to hear about.
Those depots Flash made in the mineral base really had the desired effect. Look at the push at 13:50, during the fight the goons didn't even touch the tanks, and when it was pretty much over, then they to put to sleep one. Supply depots MVP. Also, it's nice seeing Arty drooling over Flash's play. Keep up the divine work.
"Long winded with these explanations". Artosis, if you ever read this, I want you to know, NEVER feel that way. I listen almost exclusively for your advice, tips, and explanations on the game. If anything, I want more explanations. Like, why my drones stop mining and go afk out of nowhere. Is it because there is too many drones on a single min patch?
It's not only Artosis that nerdgasms over Flash. The way he maximizes macro is crazy. He could have made 4 marines, but what for? And when we see that 4th CC floating, awaiting, almost made in advance. This is amazing to watch, I think Flash is having fun with Terran again, trying to figure out these new Protoss styles and Zerg dominance.
I LIKE your "over" explaining and post game analysis. I don't think you need to be sorry about it. Your deep game understanding (especially Terran) and enthusiasm and passion are big positives for your content in my opinion and I would sorely miss them if you started cutting back on those things. I hope you continue to nerdgasm, have chills, be super excited over small thing, and explain everything in as much detail as you like! Especially post-game analysis. The worst thing we could do is click away...and I can tell you I rarely have.
I like how you explain everything. Don't apologize about talking about builds . Since I started watching this channel my game play has improved. I am a terren player. Great work arty!
His macro is top notch from what I've seen from him, I don't understand why he has to stick to dumb protoss ape gateway man every time. "me make shooty spiders and laz-r punch man! yaaayy!1"
I like to see Flash trying to work against the meta. I trust he's eventually gonna find something new that works very well given his deep knowledge of the game and it's mechanics. It'll be awesome if we see a new meta emerge.
He floated the rax, had two marines in bunker, and no repair. If he had 4 marines in the bunker and more buildings choking up dragoons with svc repair I think that could have gone a lot better for flash as he was building 3rd cc. What do you all think?
Curious if just 2 more storms at the max supply push from DC_noob could have broken Flash's defense. Clearing the mines without zealots didn't look possible and using shuttles for zealot drops didn't seem feasible with the goliaths. Storm looks like the only option to me.
I once beat G5 as Protoss vs his Terran because he attacked me with 2 transports full of Goliaths and Siege Tanks. When my observer saw them coming, I shot them down with two Scouts and he rage quit and left the game without saying "GG". Less than a year later, he embarrassed BOXER on world-wide internet television. That same year, he also defeat GoRush by using Scouts to shoot down Terran transports. I'll say this ONE TIME. If Terran is EVER making Dropships, they are doing something wrong. This is for EVERY matchup. It's a complete waste of minerals and gas against someone like me. I also maintained a 90% win rate vs Gretorp in both 1vs1 and 3vs3 in 2009 in Broodwar and regularly won "1vs3 A+ only" challenges in both public forums and private "pro gamer only" channels.
im not sure i understand the question that the title poses, im sure upgrade terran can defend against reaver openings but to do that while also gooning is another matter
Flash willing to do and optimize builds no one is willing to do is why he will be the GOAT once more. This is just ladder Flash where the games don't matter, wait until we see him in ASL again.
Sheeeet this is getting more interesting by the day. Flash is out there making the impossible into preferable. Fucking 7 minutes 3rd CC. That being said, DicNoob did nothing with the reavers, I'd like to see this build against Snow, like Arty said at the end, it would be different, with Flash probably losing. GG
Not sure how much it would've helped but he could've had 2 more marines in that bunker at the first attack. I believe he only had 2 in there unless I missed it
This felt like maru tvz late game from min2 in bw. You have to sacrifice your shit into the Terran. Fair, flash got reset, but also got the protoss. So protoss doesn't get out of hand. He put perfect indirect economic pressure on the protoss. If p stays inactive it becomes harder to break, if p trads, t has economy and it still becomes harder to break.
The fact that Artosis kept talking about the huge worker disparity in the opening without realizing protoss was deliberately cutting tons of probes and going for an all-in type of attack with reaver + goons proves his poor understanding of the game. Man's got no clue what's happening right in front of his eyes.
I just don't understand how it's physically possible to be in such a good position in TvP. If i was the protoss player here I would genuinely think terran was cheating.
Serious question: Are Flash’s builds being carried by his macro being so much better than everyone else? Seems like there are several games now where he is using older concepts that theoretically should be outdated, but he somehow gets so far ahead in production that he ends up overwhelming his opponent because they are caught off guard with the timings. No judgment on Flash, just feels like he is making things work because no one can keep his pace.
Partly that, partly that Flash is just smarter than everyone else. This particular build isn't optimized enough to win without player diff, but it's inches away from actually pulling it off. He managed to take what should have been a fatal blow and tread water until the gains from greeding out so hard overwhelmed Alt!Noob. It's not just rust at this point. He's refusing to accept the state of the meta and trying out ideas to break it, and I think he's going to succeed and it will deal Protoss a brutal blow when he does. He's done it before and I have no doubts he can do it again. It's why he's Flash.
33 probes by 6:38 is not good. Normally you get 30-32 probes by 5:30. For having not put up significant pressure on the bunker, and cutting that many workers to get the goon/reaver count to do that dive, P was kinda semi allin. Normally T is up by like 5-6 workers in that spot in their best case scenario, not 10. Now, the damage was dealt but losing the remaining goons instead of backing off with the lead let Flash take the 3rd, contested as it was. The game was kinda even-ish at that stage but P didn't time his attack well, no mine clearing through shuttle bombs, and Flash took a full defensive position with all the mines and supplies while P didn't secure a 5th.
Said it before, but Flash seems to push a build in attempt to dictate the game. It got hairy there for a bit. Noob is good, but not having those templars hurt; missed on some counters or some shuttle drops to wreck some scvs, but Flash in the end dictated the whole game.
![[ENG] SCSL S2 Ro.16 Match 1 (Hero vs Scan) - SCSL English (StarCastTV English)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LzeSsyy7O1M/mqdefault.jpg)
Flash: *makes 1 depot in the corner*
Artosis: omg...
Dude I thought the same thing. Arty will hype literally anything up.
Flash caughed. That's insane!
literal chills right now
@@pennzilla57lol in a previous video he talked in depth about why Mihu does that that nobody does. Then he understood it’s to avoid early probe harassment.
“I’m literally getting chills rn guys, going to have to watch this one again later” 😂
Flash: starts 5th scv
Artosis: Lisan Al Gaib
Hey Artosis, I just wanted to mention you said something like "Sorry I'm sort of long winded with these explanations sometimes" around the 3:38 mark - I just wanted to say those long-winded explanations getting into the nitty-gritty minutia of Broodwar is exactly what I love about your content.
Anways, thanks for all your work I love your Broodwar content!
Did we make RT self-conscious (lol)? The more exposition the better in my opinion.
6:49 Artosis being stunned by idea of making 3rd base a terran.
we seein some shit we aint never seen before
@@areallybigdwarf4560 Arty like "bro we gotta get one o doze bro"
If Arty tries that he will die to the Reaver bust and we can tell him Flash would have won.
Haha. I see what you did.
@@knirfjalmfao thats cruel
Flash comes back and Arty is going to nerdgasm each game.
Its nice.
Want to chime in this time to say that if you want to add extra analysis after the game any time, definitely go for it! It's cool for anyone who is interested and super easy to ignore for anyone who's not, so there's no downside to tagging on a little extra if it's something you want to do yourself anyway.
SPOILER BLOCK!
Ty, comment and keep it up
All my homies like GPT-X938
Artosis should empty video time, so we are not spoilerd about the length
@@meepwn952 hahaha "spoilerd". are you norwegian?
You spoiled the comments for me! 😅
the real untold story of this game are the upgrades
That post game analysis is WHY i'm subscribed
Same
I am always impressed how much FLASH thinks of SCV's as Combat Units.
100% convinced he factors that into his defense plans.
Yes, you must consider the whole unit and use the whole unit. Flash understands this.
Start using scv in this way and you will find holding rushes a lot more
Think of it this way: if your army loses the fight, all the SCVs are dying anyway.
If given the choice between losing the fight and losing all your SCVs, vs winning the fight and losing half of your SCVs, you pick the second option every time.
RT, *casts a flash game*,
*everybody loved that*
The way noob's dragoon tried to poke a shot on the bunker and got a faceful of tank shot was impressive and hilarious.
the siege mode was already waiting for it. hahaha.
Seriously too fast!
I was so impressed. So impressive. When the ai behaved like an ai I actually died from how impressed I was. When I unlocked my phone to call 911 I was so impressed. They were so impressed.
Flash evolves faster than Z. Game 1 flash was like whats the meta
Game 3 understanding the meta
Game 5 i am the meta
I love the moment flash said "its flashing time" and flashed all over the place
I can see this going one of three ways:
1) Flash really is this rusty and needs time to get back into form.
2) Flash is 5D chess trolling with weird builds in public ladder replays, and pulls out the real shit for tournaments.
3) The wildcard option. Flash playing 10D chess and has Scan playing with his hotkeys for the laughs 5Head
Artosis, your encyclopedic knowledge of competitive Brood War is what makes your SC content better than literally everyone else who does this. Be long-winded. Analyze everything. We're here for it.
As well as his humor and his passion for the game
I can't believe how Flash has so much. Those upgrades felt so fast and all. That said, this would have gone very differently with a bit better Reaver micro.
This feels like all of the other games we have seen so far where a better player would have crushed Flash.
@@Picaroon9 lmao sure
Dont forget he played vs 2300, went CC first, 3rd CC fast and literally got away with the greediest player ever
try this vs same skilled players and ure dead
@@kevinf.2556 Gasless expand isn't CC first. He still made a barracks before CC.
@@kevinf.2556 Are you talking about this game? Arty said near the beginning that DICNoob is "2500 - 2600 easy" and yes as John pointed out, this was a 15CC not a 14CC (CC first).
They are quite different in my opinion and the opinion of many others, but yes your point is probably a greedy early expand opener, which it is. He even skips marines for a while without scouting opponent, so this is very greedy in my opinion. So yeah, he got ahead right from the get-go and 'holds' that lead for the early game until the Dragoon bust.
Arty agrees with you though, that if you try this greedy build vs Best, Snow, Mini, Rain, etc., Flash is probably dead. I thought so too, he had so few units...that 3rd CC seemed like a bad call but as Arty analyzed, not sure how much more units he really could of had there...
I think the biggest factor this game for the attack at 7:08 was him floating his barracks for scouting. If he hadn't done that, or instead put a structure there, those dragoons would not have been able to get on top of the two tanks on lowground or get to the ramp.
True but he recovered
Do more of these post game jump back-analysis plz. I often just end up doing it myself... pausing the video... going back... looking around. Asking "how did he do that?" "What could he have done Better?"
Like in one of the first flash back games he goes for a fast drop ship vs reaver and vulture speed... Toss just expanding super fast 5 base...
My Brain = "If this was Mind he would have put 2 tanks in that ship and be roaming with vultures looking to kill a nexus..."
But Flash is the Goat... sooo... eh?
Flash skipped mines/speed and builded no Vulture, that's how he can afford
It is pretty hard to stop 3rd nexus anyway due to terran's poor mobility. Maybe countering it by taking your own third is the way, if you can pull it off against reaver.
Why do you need to stop the 3rd nexus when you have a 3rd CC that fast.
Flash scouted everything perfectly, saw the early robo, saw the shuttle coming in
Love your casts, been fun watching Flash again
Been watching your casts for a while, and I feel like you give more insight to Terran and Zerg than Protoss. Talking about their builds, timings, strength, weaknesses and what the players are thinking during the game.
I would love to get more insight into Protoss as well to understand their side better if possible.
Appreciate the post-game analyses.
7:20 "aping his way in" lmao
Flash is one of the only Terrans that truly uses Terran buildings as walls to close off areas of the map from frontal attacks + adds missile turrets to mine fields.
NO MATTER WHAT RTS YOU CAST, BROOD WAR IS THE BEST
I'd like to see some Flash vs Snow games - that would be interesting.
Really appreciate the post-game analyses. I've never even played SC1, so I really love the high level analysis of
- this is the weakness of Upgrade Terran
- this is what Flash is doing the same/differently
- this is what he's trying to figure out/what he needs to figure out
Super cool to hear about.
Those depots Flash made in the mineral base really had the desired effect. Look at the push at 13:50, during the fight the goons didn't even touch the tanks, and when it was pretty much over, then they to put to sleep one. Supply depots MVP.
Also, it's nice seeing Arty drooling over Flash's play. Keep up the divine work.
"Long winded with these explanations". Artosis, if you ever read this, I want you to know, NEVER feel that way. I listen almost exclusively for your advice, tips, and explanations on the game. If anything, I want more explanations.
Like, why my drones stop mining and go afk out of nowhere. Is it because there is too many drones on a single min patch?
absolutely LOVE the rewinding and going over the parts you feel were important. i dont even play and i still love to see this deep analysis
It's not only Artosis that nerdgasms over Flash. The way he maximizes macro is crazy. He could have made 4 marines, but what for? And when we see that 4th CC floating, awaiting, almost made in advance. This is amazing to watch, I think Flash is having fun with Terran again, trying to figure out these new Protoss styles and Zerg dominance.
I really like your in depth explanations because it helps me understans these tiny moments that mean a lot in a pro level
its so cool watching flash again
I LIKE your "over" explaining and post game analysis. I don't think you need to be sorry about it. Your deep game understanding (especially Terran) and enthusiasm and passion are big positives for your content in my opinion and I would sorely miss them if you started cutting back on those things.
I hope you continue to nerdgasm, have chills, be super excited over small thing, and explain everything in as much detail as you like! Especially post-game analysis. The worst thing we could do is click away...and I can tell you I rarely have.
Perfect morning upload. Thanks for all the Flash games!
I like how you explain everything. Don't apologize about talking about builds . Since I started watching this channel my game play has improved. I am a terren player. Great work arty!
Flash: takes 3rd before 7 minutes.
Artosis: this isn't reality...
I love your long winded explanations Arty! That's why I watch this channel. For dat insight.
I loved the more in depth analysis in the end!
thanks for the postgame analysis of that timing, cheers
Insane optimization by noob to be up 4 workers by 8:04
His macro is top notch from what I've seen from him, I don't understand why he has to stick to dumb protoss ape gateway man every time. "me make shooty spiders and laz-r punch man! yaaayy!1"
Love the post-gama analysis. Super interesting stuff
I like to see Flash trying to work against the meta. I trust he's eventually gonna find something new that works very well given his deep knowledge of the game and it's mechanics. It'll be awesome if we see a new meta emerge.
Extremely interesting narration ! 🦾🦾
Where can I get this replay?
You are such a flash fan boy, and so am i, this guy is amazing
Good to see it come back a bit
Please keep putting out the Flash ladder games!
He floated the rax, had two marines in bunker, and no repair. If he had 4 marines in the bunker and more buildings choking up dragoons with svc repair I think that could have gone a lot better for flash as he was building 3rd cc. What do you all think?
Wow so many shots missed that one tank on that little strip of high ground
long winded explanations are goat
when you kill dragoons directly with vultures haha you might be ahead in upgrades
"he is starting to aping is way in"
17:38 that was crucial~!
If you ain't goonin' brother you ain't livin
Curious if just 2 more storms at the max supply push from DC_noob could have broken Flash's defense. Clearing the mines without zealots didn't look possible and using shuttles for zealot drops didn't seem feasible with the goliaths. Storm looks like the only option to me.
Why Protoss don't use proxy Gates? maybe around 3d, towards right corner.
You can ez trick Terran when he scans you.
I once beat G5 as Protoss vs his Terran because he attacked me with 2 transports full of Goliaths and Siege Tanks. When my observer saw them coming, I shot them down with two Scouts and he rage quit and left the game without saying "GG".
Less than a year later, he embarrassed BOXER on world-wide internet television. That same year, he also defeat GoRush by using Scouts to shoot down Terran transports.
I'll say this ONE TIME. If Terran is EVER making Dropships, they are doing something wrong. This is for EVERY matchup. It's a complete waste of minerals and gas against someone like me. I also maintained a 90% win rate vs Gretorp in both 1vs1 and 3vs3 in 2009 in Broodwar and regularly won "1vs3 A+ only" challenges in both public forums and private "pro gamer only" channels.
If we're going for optimization, I wonder if keeping his rax next to his bunker is a better play rather than scouting for the shuttle above the nat
im not sure i understand the question that the title poses, im sure upgrade terran can defend against reaver openings but to do that while also gooning is another matter
If you aint goonin... if you aint shittin your pants... you aint livin brother
If noob went dark temps would he have won off the first attack?
what is upgrade terran ?
Flash willing to do and optimize builds no one is willing to do is why he will be the GOAT once more. This is just ladder Flash where the games don't matter, wait until we see him in ASL again.
Sheeeet this is getting more interesting by the day. Flash is out there making the impossible into preferable. Fucking 7 minutes 3rd CC. That being said, DicNoob did nothing with the reavers, I'd like to see this build against Snow, like Arty said at the end, it would be different, with Flash probably losing. GG
I don't see this Flash standing a chance against Snow
Feel like this could have worked much better with the regular 3 marines in bunker or 4 marines as an alternative
I think 2 extra marines for 3 fewer SuVs would have helped a bit. 2 in the bunker isn't as safe.
FINALLY MORE TVP!!!!!
0:49 I thought you were going to say, it's an apt name for protoss players :p
Next few month and Flash will be back to hes pride. Hes getting better and better.... They release beast !!!
Thing is Flash gonna play like this in ladder but then same game would happen in tournament , he defends perfect and enemy auto-loses in 10mins LUL.
Interesting. GGs.
That maxed attack on third was awful. No zealot pre-spread, no zealot run-through. Just a-move hoping for the best.
Not sure how much it would've helped but he could've had 2 more marines in that bunker at the first attack. I believe he only had 2 in there unless I missed it
chills @ 8:44
This felt like maru tvz late game from min2 in bw. You have to sacrifice your shit into the Terran. Fair, flash got reset, but also got the protoss. So protoss doesn't get out of hand. He put perfect indirect economic pressure on the protoss. If p stays inactive it becomes harder to break, if p trads, t has economy and it still becomes harder to break.
typical flash game, one second you think he might even be dead and 10 minutes later it looks like a mis match
The fact that Artosis kept talking about the huge worker disparity in the opening without realizing protoss was deliberately cutting tons of probes and going for an all-in type of attack with reaver + goons proves his poor understanding of the game. Man's got no clue what's happening right in front of his eyes.
Gracias por el video.
You should cast a couple games of dewalt VS killer series that just happened in rusia VS corea 2
I just don't understand how it's physically possible to be in such a good position in TvP. If i was the protoss player here I would genuinely think terran was cheating.
Good stuff
Good morning RT
Toss shat the bed on the attack on the 3rd and gg...
12:36 The word is "versus," not "verse."
Serious question: Are Flash’s builds being carried by his macro being so much better than everyone else? Seems like there are several games now where he is using older concepts that theoretically should be outdated, but he somehow gets so far ahead in production that he ends up overwhelming his opponent because they are caught off guard with the timings. No judgment on Flash, just feels like he is making things work because no one can keep his pace.
Partly that, partly that Flash is just smarter than everyone else. This particular build isn't optimized enough to win without player diff, but it's inches away from actually pulling it off. He managed to take what should have been a fatal blow and tread water until the gains from greeding out so hard overwhelmed Alt!Noob. It's not just rust at this point. He's refusing to accept the state of the meta and trying out ideas to break it, and I think he's going to succeed and it will deal Protoss a brutal blow when he does. He's done it before and I have no doubts he can do it again. It's why he's Flash.
33 probes by 6:38 is not good. Normally you get 30-32 probes by 5:30. For having not put up significant pressure on the bunker, and cutting that many workers to get the goon/reaver count to do that dive, P was kinda semi allin. Normally T is up by like 5-6 workers in that spot in their best case scenario, not 10.
Now, the damage was dealt but losing the remaining goons instead of backing off with the lead let Flash take the 3rd, contested as it was.
The game was kinda even-ish at that stage but P didn't time his attack well, no mine clearing through shuttle bombs, and Flash took a full defensive position with all the mines and supplies while P didn't secure a 5th.
rever?
8 dragoon push is nice
Snow would have won
Said it before, but Flash seems to push a build in attempt to dictate the game. It got hairy there for a bit.
Noob is good, but not having those templars hurt; missed on some counters or some shuttle drops to wreck some scvs, but Flash in the end dictated the whole game.
Isn't flash not attacking for the same reasons arty usually says "you can't just attack as terran"? lol
So Noob was just gooning?
Flash will cut 1 scv for 1 extra marine next game and stomp that attack, and win the next ASL while doing so.
Lol Artosis loves flash
more flash plz
nice
Flash would have won.
Hot take.... can we let Flash get good again before watching a ton of his replays?