From 2000 until 2005 I was the Proponent Sergeant Major for the Army Bands Career Field, Commandant of the Army Bands NCO Academy, and Army Element Sergeant Major at the Armed Forces School of Music. Indeed, I spent 13 of my 30 Army years at the School of Music -- attended the 6-month basic course, the Navy Intermediate Course (F-2), Army Advanced NCO Training, and served time as a theory instructor, then Percussion Branch Head, then 1SG of Student Company, only to return a few years later for my final five years as the sergeant major . For decades Army, Navy, and USMC musicians trained side by side, an experience I was fortunate enough to experience, both as a student and as instructor. The reasons for the Army's split from the Navy's 6-month curriculum are complex, mostly driven by Army demands stemming from combat operations beginning after 9-11. In short, the Navy's long curriculum did not meet time demands of high-level Army leadership. Indeed, the move to separate from the Navy curriculum started during my final years, and came to pass a few years after I retired. Personally speaking, I was saddened to see the split, but fully understand why it happened. In closing, I say THANK YOU for a detailed, and pretty danged accurate, explanation of the military services' music programs! This retired sergeant major picked up a few new bits of info himself!
Retired Navy musician here (MU3). Nice video. I would just add that there is intense competition for spots even in the fleet bands. I went in in 1989 straight out of high school. This was not that unheard of then. Now the amount of bands, and the size of the fleet bands themselves are significantly smaller. Almost all musicians entering the school of music today have a minimum of a BA, many with their Masters, and even a few PhD's. Can you imagine having a doctorate and scubbing toilets in boot camp? That said, promotion is sometimes achieved quicker with highly advanced musicians in the field with meritorious advancement programs (meaning you don't have to take the normal test to become an E-5 or E-6). Also, people generally stay in the military for a long time as musicians, especially in the Premiere Bands. So look in musician mags or online to be notified of openings. Sometimes travel is required to audition for an open spot.
Thanks for adding this info! I'm not going to change it since what I said is still at least officially true - you don't "need" a degree. But yes, I attended USASOM with a "doctor specialist" and I actually have a post-master's certificate so I see your point! Edit: I'll also add that while I was at USASOM there were definitely NAVSOM students who didn't have degrees, but this did seem to be more common among Marines than Sailors
@@alekwassermanjust to add on my point of view from currently being at NAVSOM and heading to my first fleet band in a couple of weeks. Out of the currently 15 sailors that are here right now 2 have DMAs, one is ABD on his DMA and the vast majority of others have a masters degree with 3 of us having only a bachelors (2 of them including myself were in the middle of their masters when they won their position) and 1 has 4 years of college but no degree. On the Marines side there is 30-40 of them with probably only 3-5 with degrees. There was tough competition at both of the Navy Fleet Band auditions I attended (at least for tuba) including many people with graduate and postgraduate degrees as well as some who have been finalists at premier band auditions and orchestral auditions. Not sure about the Army since they keep it fairly separated.
Good video - Retired from the USAR band system a while back - best part time job I ever had! I'll share it with some advice. Don't sign anything until you communicate with the band! I walked away from my first recruiter.
I would second that! I talked to my band before I ever talked to the recruiter, and they ended up putting me with a really awesome recruiter. Then I went to BCT and AIT and by trading stories figured out how lucky I was to have a recruiter who actually walked me through everything in my contract.
Great approach to a very heavy topic. And it's interesting to see it come from a guard guy. 1) Something that would be interesting to talk more about would be the promotion systems of each branch and what the typical trends are. For AD army (42r), it's wrapping up a fairly large cut of personnel and people typically like the job(people will stay in if they can). So there are very few promotions due lack of slots and you keep replacing the initial entry rank. And it should be fair to talk about how your musical ability directly helps in the process and, depending on what kind of person you are, you are probably not going to be playing much as you enter higher ranks (administration roles). I know in the navy you have to pass some sort of technical proficiency in order to advance in pay grade. 2) You kind of talk about it, but the different branches have their own approach to the music "entertainment". I would go a step further to discuss the culture. I've seen a lot of social media from various bands. Outside of maybe the musician level, I can't tell much of a difference between active duty air force regular regional bands and premier bands. Highly professional people who care about their craft and engaging their audience (ie show videos of the product - sometimes live). Army and Marines typically show people PCSing, awards, pictures, and doing more military things (not just the sweeping and waiting). Maybe end talking about the steady cuts and re organization of each branch. 3) Deployment Deep dive in how each branch approaches deployment. And maybe highlight the ones that actually have a impact (like the air force band performing through Pakistan). Maybe talk about overseas bands and navy fleet bands. They have a unique opportunity being US musical ambassadors. And not a topic, but could you lower the levels of the stick? It's much louder than your talking.
Thank you - those are all great points! Unfortunately, it was just too difficult to go into great detail on all of those topics and keep the video to a watchable length. And I've gotten the same critique about the volume a few times. I don't think there's anything I can do to change it in this video but I'm pretty sure I've figured out how to fix it for the next one!
I would like to point out a few important things. I'm a retired warrant officer and I finished my career commanding an army national guard band. I started in a different state's NG band (which was full of band directors) while getting my music degrees and then spent 8 years as an active duty Air Force bassoonist before switching branches again and going to the tri-forces school at Norfolk to become a band master. I've also had many friends and former students in the various military bands. FIRST, let me repeat what others have said here. DO NOT TALK TO A REGULAR RECRUITER BEFORE TALKING TO A BAND! I had a first chair all-state tuba student who could have easily been accepted to an active duty army or marine band but the marine recruiter told him he was a cinch for the President's own and they would take care of the paperwork after he came in on an open contract! He was screwed and spent 4 years in the infantry. Secondly, active duty service is definitely better in the Air Force for musicians unless you can make a premier band. That's especially true if you're not keen on ceremonial music. Thirdly, there are multiple levels of quality and mission in army bands and marine bands and where you end up depends on your success at the school of music. AF band missions are much more music driven and they just take college trained musicians rather than schooling them up in Norfolk. I never fired a weapon in my 8 years in the Air Force and we slept two to a room in hotels rather than on armory floors or school gymnasiums. My 22 year career went by in a blur and my guard retirement is an excellent supplement to my teaching retirement. IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE. Anyone contemplating going this route should talk to a military musician they trust before signing any contract. Thanks for posting.
Hey Sir, thank you for the comment. It's really helpful to hear others' ideas on this subject, particularly the things that are outside of the very entry-level scope of this video. However, I will say all of my active duty classmates at USASOM already knew what unit they were headed to before they went to Basic Training, so the only way I could see AIT influencing what comes next is if someone were to fail out. And I went this year so this is fairly current info. From what classmates have told me, they base your placement on your audition AMPA score before enlistment. You may not get your first choice of unit, but if you score high enough to get into the band program in the first place you'll probably get at least your second or third choice.
@@alekwasserman Things have changed so much that I can't even keep up with the uniforms anymore. I retired from the guard in 1999 and all of my active duty time was in the 1980s. My last trip to Norfolk was in 1997 so I'm sure things are vastly different. The AF has less than half the number of bands than when I was in. My old band (Band of the US AF Reserve, stationed at AF Reserve headquarters in GA) was deactivated several years ago along with our bagpipe band that was comprised of players not in the jazz band. Being a bassoonist, I was given a set of pipes and a trainer and was playing all over the world within a year. We played for the Australian bicentennial in Darwin, Australia in 1988 and at the White House every St. Patricks day between 1992 and when the band was disbanded around 2016. I missed the White House performances and a trip to Russia after the wall fell because I got out in 1989, but I did get to perform for President Reagan and Pope John Paul and for the 20th reunion of the Apollo astronauts. There are two TH-cam videos of our band playing "Highland Cathedral" with the Mormon Tabernacle choir that you should check out. Unfortunately, I got out before the internet was much of a thing so there aren't any videos from my time. If you are still serving you should press on to retirement. Tri-Care and having a second pension are the only reasons I could retire from teaching at 60.
Regarding the Armed Forces School of Music and why the USAF Bands are exempt: He glossed over this, so I am guessing he doesn't know that in 1973, the USAF chose to focus on recruiting highly qualified musicians with college degrees in music (BA/BS/BM, MA/MM, and yes, even a few PhD/DMA holders), with less focus on recruiting good high school musicians who needed more core musical education in theory and aural training. With that, the USAF chose to leave the AFSM and instead use an on-the-job training mechanism consisting of private lessons with qualified senior musicians. That way, they could assign and deploy bandsmen sooner and, so they thought, more effectively.
Good to know, thank you! The only thing I could find in researching the video was that the Air Force didn’t do music school training, not the story behind it
I did get one thing wrong here: The US Air Force Academy Band is now enlisting at E3 for Basic Military Training and E6 upon reaching the unit, in line with what the US Air Force Band does. The reason for the mistake in the video was that when I researched the US Air Force Academy Band, I found biographies for E3-E5 personnel on their website, along with higher pay grades (so that bit of info in the video is now outdated).
@@AlexHand it would be impossible for me to answer with certainty since I’m not in the Air Force, but I will say as a relatively recent Army BCT grad that it probably wouldn’t be any different. On the Army side, they didn’t allow us to wear our rank until the very end of Basic and made no distinction between anyone E1-E4; we were all just “trainees.” The only difference was how much you were getting paid to be there.
You’re overall correct. The Academy Band was premiered in late 2019, BUT with that change, everyone currently in the band below E6 is required to audition for their position again. I was just there for an audition myself, I happened to find this out during the time leading up to it. As a civilian, I’d be going in as an E6 if I were chosen, but many of us auditioners were quite literally auditioning with current band members who’d like to stay and keep their job...not that I blame them of course 😆 Basically, eventually everyone in that band will ended up being E6, but merely because of audition/reaudition logistics, it’s gonna take a while.
Can you try out for both a premiere and an active duty band in the same branch? Or try for multiple branches? I wouldn't want to undersell myself, but also wouldn't mind having a backup offer
Thank you for this video!!! So much great content in this video that I couldn’t really find elsewhere. Question, does it hurt to audition for multiple bands? Specifically am I okay to try out for the presidents own before the Air Force band?
By no means would I be the authority on the special bands' priorities, but I can't see any reason that would hurt. Just keep trying until you find the right situation for you. I'd also look at regular active duty bands to keep your options open.
Not allowing military musicians to be officers is ruining recruitment. I don’t know why anyone who spent all that effort in music school would agree to be enlisted as a professional musician.
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It’s hard to say what “really good high school musician” means, and I’d say it also depends on the instrument. I’m of course biased because I play piano, but I fervently believe it’s harder to pass the piano AMPA (Army Music Proficiency Assessment) than it is to pass for most other instruments. They’re also pretty picky about voice, and oboe and bassoon have higher minimum scores than all the rest, although in my opinion they test those two for a more limited skill set. I’d say get in touch with your regional Army Bands liaison and take an audition. The worst case scenario is you have to hit the practice room again and try a second time
@@alekwasserman ok, I play trumpet and have placed close to the top of all state in my state in both jazz and concert, have you heard of people making it in the army bands right after high school?
@@b25trumpet There were I believe two active duty guys who were fresh out of high school in my AIT class, so it does for sure happen. It's not common, but if you want to do it, I'd say get with your regional Army Bands Liaison and go for it. I believe this link is the right place for you to get started: www.bands.army.mil/careers/audition
Sometimes. But it depends greatly on many factors that can be a bit fluid. Army Bands do deploy. Field exercises are not terribly common, but can happen.
In the Army, every male shaves their head at Basic Combat Training. Once you get to AIT, you can have other hair styles besides a buzz cut. I believe this is either the same or similar for other branches, but the authorized male hair styles are slightly different from branch to branch
From 2000 until 2005 I was the Proponent Sergeant Major for the Army Bands Career Field, Commandant of the Army Bands NCO Academy, and Army Element Sergeant Major at the Armed Forces School of Music. Indeed, I spent 13 of my 30 Army years at the School of Music -- attended the 6-month basic course, the Navy Intermediate Course (F-2), Army Advanced NCO Training, and served time as a theory instructor, then Percussion Branch Head, then 1SG of Student Company, only to return a few years later for my final five years as the sergeant major .
For decades Army, Navy, and USMC musicians trained side by side, an experience I was fortunate enough to experience, both as a student and as instructor. The reasons for the Army's split from the Navy's 6-month curriculum are complex, mostly driven by Army demands stemming from combat operations beginning after 9-11. In short, the Navy's long curriculum did not meet time demands of high-level Army leadership. Indeed, the move to separate from the Navy curriculum started during my final years, and came to pass a few years after I retired. Personally speaking, I was saddened to see the split, but fully understand why it happened.
In closing, I say THANK YOU for a detailed, and pretty danged accurate, explanation of the military services' music programs! This retired sergeant major picked up a few new bits of info himself!
Thank you, Sergeant Major!
Retired Navy musician here (MU3). Nice video. I would just add that there is intense competition for spots even in the fleet bands. I went in in 1989 straight out of high school. This was not that unheard of then. Now the amount of bands, and the size of the fleet bands themselves are significantly smaller. Almost all musicians entering the school of music today have a minimum of a BA, many with their Masters, and even a few PhD's. Can you imagine having a doctorate and scubbing toilets in boot camp? That said, promotion is sometimes achieved quicker with highly advanced musicians in the field with meritorious advancement programs (meaning you don't have to take the normal test to become an E-5 or E-6). Also, people generally stay in the military for a long time as musicians, especially in the Premiere Bands. So look in musician mags or online to be notified of openings. Sometimes travel is required to audition for an open spot.
Thanks for adding this info! I'm not going to change it since what I said is still at least officially true - you don't "need" a degree. But yes, I attended USASOM with a "doctor specialist" and I actually have a post-master's certificate so I see your point!
Edit: I'll also add that while I was at USASOM there were definitely NAVSOM students who didn't have degrees, but this did seem to be more common among Marines than Sailors
It makes one question their choice of degree I guess ...
@@alekwassermanjust to add on my point of view from currently being at NAVSOM and heading to my first fleet band in a couple of weeks. Out of the currently 15 sailors that are here right now 2 have DMAs, one is ABD on his DMA and the vast majority of others have a masters degree with 3 of us having only a bachelors (2 of them including myself were in the middle of their masters when they won their position) and 1 has 4 years of college but no degree. On the Marines side there is 30-40 of them with probably only 3-5 with degrees. There was tough competition at both of the Navy Fleet Band auditions I attended (at least for tuba) including many people with graduate and postgraduate degrees as well as some who have been finalists at premier band auditions and orchestral auditions. Not sure about the Army since they keep it fairly separated.
Good video - Retired from the USAR band system a while back - best part time job I ever had! I'll share it with some advice. Don't sign anything until you communicate with the band! I walked away from my first recruiter.
I would second that! I talked to my band before I ever talked to the recruiter, and they ended up putting me with a really awesome recruiter. Then I went to BCT and AIT and by trading stories figured out how lucky I was to have a recruiter who actually walked me through everything in my contract.
I was just talking about this at dinner with my family that I am considering this as a career. Amazing Resource!
Great approach to a very heavy topic. And it's interesting to see it come from a guard guy.
1) Something that would be interesting to talk more about would be the promotion systems of each branch and what the typical trends are. For AD army (42r), it's wrapping up a fairly large cut of personnel and people typically like the job(people will stay in if they can). So there are very few promotions due lack of slots and you keep replacing the initial entry rank. And it should be fair to talk about how your musical ability directly helps in the process and, depending on what kind of person you are, you are probably not going to be playing much as you enter higher ranks (administration roles).
I know in the navy you have to pass some sort of technical proficiency in order to advance in pay grade.
2) You kind of talk about it, but the different branches have their own approach to the music "entertainment". I would go a step further to discuss the culture. I've seen a lot of social media from various bands. Outside of maybe the musician level, I can't tell much of a difference between active duty air force regular regional bands and premier bands. Highly professional people who care about their craft and engaging their audience (ie show videos of the product - sometimes live). Army and Marines typically show people PCSing, awards, pictures, and doing more military things (not just the sweeping and waiting). Maybe end talking about the steady cuts and re organization of each branch.
3) Deployment
Deep dive in how each branch approaches deployment. And maybe highlight the ones that actually have a impact (like the air force band performing through Pakistan).
Maybe talk about overseas bands and navy fleet bands. They have a unique opportunity being US musical ambassadors.
And not a topic, but could you lower the levels of the stick? It's much louder than your talking.
Thank you - those are all great points! Unfortunately, it was just too difficult to go into great detail on all of those topics and keep the video to a watchable length.
And I've gotten the same critique about the volume a few times. I don't think there's anything I can do to change it in this video but I'm pretty sure I've figured out how to fix it for the next one!
I would like to point out a few important things. I'm a retired warrant officer and I finished my career commanding an army national guard band. I started in a different state's NG band (which was full of band directors) while getting my music degrees and then spent 8 years as an active duty Air Force bassoonist before switching branches again and going to the tri-forces school at Norfolk to become a band master. I've also had many friends and former students in the various military bands. FIRST, let me repeat what others have said here. DO NOT TALK TO A REGULAR RECRUITER BEFORE TALKING TO A BAND! I had a first chair all-state tuba student who could have easily been accepted to an active duty army or marine band but the marine recruiter told him he was a cinch for the President's own and they would take care of the paperwork after he came in on an open contract! He was screwed and spent 4 years in the infantry. Secondly, active duty service is definitely better in the Air Force for musicians unless you can make a premier band. That's especially true if you're not keen on ceremonial music. Thirdly, there are multiple levels of quality and mission in army bands and marine bands and where you end up depends on your success at the school of music. AF band missions are much more music driven and they just take college trained musicians rather than schooling them up in Norfolk. I never fired a weapon in my 8 years in the Air Force and we slept two to a room in hotels rather than on armory floors or school gymnasiums. My 22 year career went by in a blur and my guard retirement is an excellent supplement to my teaching retirement. IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE. Anyone contemplating going this route should talk to a military musician they trust before signing any contract. Thanks for posting.
Hey Sir, thank you for the comment. It's really helpful to hear others' ideas on this subject, particularly the things that are outside of the very entry-level scope of this video. However, I will say all of my active duty classmates at USASOM already knew what unit they were headed to before they went to Basic Training, so the only way I could see AIT influencing what comes next is if someone were to fail out. And I went this year so this is fairly current info. From what classmates have told me, they base your placement on your audition AMPA score before enlistment. You may not get your first choice of unit, but if you score high enough to get into the band program in the first place you'll probably get at least your second or third choice.
@@alekwasserman Things have changed so much that I can't even keep up with the uniforms anymore. I retired from the guard in 1999 and all of my active duty time was in the 1980s. My last trip to Norfolk was in 1997 so I'm sure things are vastly different. The AF has less than half the number of bands than when I was in. My old band (Band of the US AF Reserve, stationed at AF Reserve headquarters in GA) was deactivated several years ago along with our bagpipe band that was comprised of players not in the jazz band. Being a bassoonist, I was given a set of pipes and a trainer and was playing all over the world within a year. We played for the Australian bicentennial in Darwin, Australia in 1988 and at the White House every St. Patricks day between 1992 and when the band was disbanded around 2016. I missed the White House performances and a trip to Russia after the wall fell because I got out in 1989, but I did get to perform for President Reagan and Pope John Paul and for the 20th reunion of the Apollo astronauts. There are two TH-cam videos of our band playing "Highland Cathedral" with the Mormon Tabernacle choir that you should check out. Unfortunately, I got out before the internet was much of a thing so there aren't any videos from my time. If you are still serving you should press on to retirement. Tri-Care and having a second pension are the only reasons I could retire from teaching at 60.
@@MaestroTerry Being a new soldier and a public school music teacher myself, I understand all of that firsthand!
Regarding the Armed Forces School of Music and why the USAF Bands are exempt: He glossed over this, so I am guessing he doesn't know that in 1973, the USAF chose to focus on recruiting highly qualified musicians with college degrees in music (BA/BS/BM, MA/MM, and yes, even a few PhD/DMA holders), with less focus on recruiting good high school musicians who needed more core musical education in theory and aural training. With that, the USAF chose to leave the AFSM and instead use an on-the-job training mechanism consisting of private lessons with qualified senior musicians. That way, they could assign and deploy bandsmen sooner and, so they thought, more effectively.
Good to know, thank you! The only thing I could find in researching the video was that the Air Force didn’t do music school training, not the story behind it
Lots of opportunity here for additional videos -- good first effort with this one! The audition process might be a video all by itself.
Thank you! I wasn't originally intending to make more military videos, but now I just might have to...
I did get one thing wrong here: The US Air Force Academy Band is now enlisting at E3 for Basic Military Training and E6 upon reaching the unit, in line with what the US Air Force Band does. The reason for the mistake in the video was that when I researched the US Air Force Academy Band, I found biographies for E3-E5 personnel on their website, along with higher pay grades (so that bit of info in the video is now outdated).
How is the experience different going through BMT as E3 vs no immediate rank?
@@AlexHand it would be impossible for me to answer with certainty since I’m not in the Air Force, but I will say as a relatively recent Army BCT grad that it probably wouldn’t be any different. On the Army side, they didn’t allow us to wear our rank until the very end of Basic and made no distinction between anyone E1-E4; we were all just “trainees.” The only difference was how much you were getting paid to be there.
You’re overall correct. The Academy Band was premiered in late 2019, BUT with that change, everyone currently in the band below E6 is required to audition for their position again. I was just there for an audition myself, I happened to find this out during the time leading up to it. As a civilian, I’d be going in as an E6 if I were chosen, but many of us auditioners were quite literally auditioning with current band members who’d like to stay and keep their job...not that I blame them of course 😆
Basically, eventually everyone in that band will ended up being E6, but merely because of audition/reaudition logistics, it’s gonna take a while.
@@jenniferhiemstra5228 Thank you for the first hand info!
@@alekwasserman No problem! I've been pursing this route for 3 years, I've gleaned A LOT of info just by osmosis!
Great video! TYFYS!
Thank you so much!
Space Force band... Where do you think Prince went? But that's classified.
Can you try out for both a premiere and an active duty band in the same branch? Or try for multiple branches? I wouldn't want to undersell myself, but also wouldn't mind having a backup offer
Thank you for this video!!! So much great content in this video that I couldn’t really find elsewhere. Question, does it hurt to audition for multiple bands? Specifically am I okay to try out for the presidents own before the Air Force band?
By no means would I be the authority on the special bands' priorities, but I can't see any reason that would hurt. Just keep trying until you find the right situation for you. I'd also look at regular active duty bands to keep your options open.
Not allowing military musicians to be officers is ruining recruitment. I don’t know why anyone who spent all that effort in music school would agree to be enlisted as a professional musician.
What kind of qualifications do we need to apply in the British army Band
Unfortunately, I am not British and I have no knowledge of their military band program. Thank you for commenting, though!
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How common is it for a really good high school musician to make it into one of the active duty bands?
It’s hard to say what “really good high school musician” means, and I’d say it also depends on the instrument. I’m of course biased because I play piano, but I fervently believe it’s harder to pass the piano AMPA (Army Music Proficiency Assessment) than it is to pass for most other instruments. They’re also pretty picky about voice, and oboe and bassoon have higher minimum scores than all the rest, although in my opinion they test those two for a more limited skill set. I’d say get in touch with your regional Army Bands liaison and take an audition. The worst case scenario is you have to hit the practice room again and try a second time
@@alekwasserman ok, I play trumpet and have placed close to the top of all state in my state in both jazz and concert, have you heard of people making it in the army bands right after high school?
@@b25trumpet There were I believe two active duty guys who were fresh out of high school in my AIT class, so it does for sure happen. It's not common, but if you want to do it, I'd say get with your regional Army Bands Liaison and go for it. I believe this link is the right place for you to get started: www.bands.army.mil/careers/audition
Do 42Rs go to the field?
Sometimes. But it depends greatly on many factors that can be a bit fluid. Army Bands do deploy. Field exercises are not terribly common, but can happen.
6:07 ....Everyone's favorite topic...CRINGE....I mean....MONEY.
do you have to shave your head?
In the Army, every male shaves their head at Basic Combat Training. Once you get to AIT, you can have other hair styles besides a buzz cut. I believe this is either the same or similar for other branches, but the authorized male hair styles are slightly different from branch to branch