That dorian mode with a raised 4th, Satie-scale, is called Maqam Nikriz in middle-eastern music. It's not something discovered by Satie. There are dozens of old musical pieces written on it.
@@cecilsproject6796 well i'm not aware of a precise definition of a scale. I use it as some set of notes that are musically very fruitful. Yeah perfect 4th as well as minor 6th and major 7th degrees are used, i just considered them as deviations from the main scale but i guess you can express the same thing with a different main scale and deviating notes. In my opinion raised 4th gives the main flavor of the piece, and i suspect that dorian with a raised 4th is quite a fruitful scale.
Loved the video and the analysis. Intermediate and advance learners will love this channel. Extra cheers for the comical exchange to explain how the three parts converse.
Like you the gnossienne is helping me to go through some difficult times, first I learned the number 1, I learned the gymnopedie in between and now learning gnossienne 3. Thank you for the video
Hoping to make another one soon, maybe even before the end of the year! These just take a lot of time and primarily I'm working as a freelance composer and teacher. But I do want to stay (at least somewhat) active on this channel and comments like these are very motivating, so thank you!
@@andynalysis looking forward to the new video! :) By the way I messaged you on your website to ask about harmony/music theory lessons. Let me know if you may be available for teaching! I am interested in understanding the harmonic progressions of modern songs that I like, and how they work, in order to learn them more easily than just by memory. For example, one song that I am interested in is Dust by Duval Timothy.
Thanks so much. I fell under the spell of #1 about 25 years ago and have been trying to master it on guitar ever since. The mood is magical. I must have played it many thousands of times by now and each time I want to play it again, and again . . . it wants to be looped forever. It stops time.
Excellent Really astonishing !!! My suggestion is that you can develop even more concerning the 3 personas dialogue, but should transcend analysis of Music and reach phenomenology of Music But great work you've done!!! Please, more vídeos!!! Don't give up! More videos!!
This was a great video and extremely well explained and helped me out a lot. I'd love to see similar simplistic and detailed analysis in the future :))).
If magic is real then gnossinne is magical for sure.. when i play it i just feel like I'm not in this world.. it feels sad and mysterious and dreamy .. horrifically beautiful
Never thought of it as a conversation... but now I can't unsee it; or unhear it I guess. With that said, I don't know if the choice of images was on purpose, but A sounds like and old man, B like an adult and C like a young man.
Nice analysis! Just as a little side note: the basic phrase of part A is 9 "bars" long, not 8 - which adds to its "exotic" flavour, sort of like a phrase of traditional (a.k.a. folk) music from somewhere "east of the west" ;)
That's true, thank you for pointing it out! I guess I just counted the 8 bars of melody and then forgot about the extra bar, I don't remember exactly, because it's already 3 years ago
I love your videos and the witty sense of your humor, keep it up, great channel. Also, Can u recommend us a good German books to learn Harmony? (I'm studying the Russian school, but I want to see other textbooks)
Thank you for the nice feedback, that means a lot! To be honest I don't know too many German theory books since I studied abroad. My analysis in this video is mainly based on the Berklee method (Jazz Harmony) - a good book to study that would be e.g. 'The Chord Scale Theory & Jazz Harmony' by Barrie Nettles and Richard Graf.
I know it's convention and this is ultimately just nomenclature, but I think the "Melodic Minor #4" is better thought of as a Lydian b3. I know it's a little hard to accept a major mode with a b3 when the ear wants to hear a minor scale but I have two reasons: 1) It makes it easier to remember because you only have to remember one alteration rather than two. 2) Theoretically, this is much more in line with the history of Western scales. Obviously, it's no secret that our 7 diatonic modes are based on a stack of 6 perfect fifths on top of each other with different pitches treated as the bass/root note. But what gets talked about less is how all of the "odd scales" that tend to be presented as ad hoc aberrations (like the melodic/harmonic minor) are also based on the same stack of fifths, just with one note altered chromatically. So the melodic minor for instance is just a mode of the same stack of fifths but with the second note raised a semitone (i.e. the Melodic Minor is the Dorian mode of the Lydian #5) Similarly, the Harmonic Minor is the Aeolian Mode of the Lydian #3. And as it turns out, a good deal of the other 'exotic' or 'auxillary' modes that have been used in the history of Western music are also just byproducts of this process. The so-called Acoustic scale adored by Debussy, the Hungarian minor, the Phrygian dominant, some of the weird nameless modes that Shostakovich used, etc. And we can give each and every one of them simple, unique names of the form "*conventional mode name* *chromatic degree*" as long as we keep the parent Lydian collection and its altered chromatic note in mind. But an important caveat is that these scales are the product of one and exactly *one* chromatic alteration to the stack of 5ths. For if we open the door with things like "Melodic Minor #4' we create the theoretical possibility of an infinite, arbitrary number of alterations. Why stop at two? Why stop at three? And we sort of overcomplicate what is otherwise, a very clean and simple set of transformation principles that relate a great deal of tonal music that might otherwise be obscured. Now obviously, it can't explain everything. We can't explain the whole tone or octatonic this way. They came about through different symmetrical processes. But it's still a very useful foundation as long as you can accept the possibility of major scales with flattened thirds or raised thirds (i.e. perfect fourths) or sometimes modes with flattened or raised roots.
great video! i've actually coincidentally discovered the mel minor #11 variation of the satie on my own before by combining a hungarian minor tetrachord with a major tetrachord - apparently it's also called the lydian diminished scale? anyway, keep it up!
It's interesting that there are often several names for the same phenomenon. Shows that there are different ways of looking at it. On that note: Combining tetrachords also sounds like a great way to find "new" scales. I haven't thought of that before, thank you! :)
It looks like in the Ending A & C there is a part where the left hand chord plays a note F that is already supposed to be played by the right hand...can you help me understand how that's supposed to be actually played? I'm very much a beginner with reading sheet music, and I'd love to understand this.
Hi Jeff, the way I played it is that I shared that F Minor chord between both hands. So the f is played by the right hand as it is the end of the phrase and the left hand plays the other two notes. On the next beat the left hand plays the whole chord as before and the right hand rests. The f in the melody is indeed written as sustained, but it's note possible to hold the same note twice on a piano. I hope this explanation makes sense! :)
Not sure if this is true or not but apparently Satie did not want people to stop and listen to his pieces. They should be audible as " background " only..?
Well, I suppose I failed then. 😁 Indeed I read something like that once, and that Satie is kind of the father of elevator music in that sense, but I'd have to check again if that is true
He said so many things . Some of them meant rather whimsically . Who knows what he meant when he used the word " listen "....? Your work is of great value to many of us..!
Why create a scale? Did satie spoke about his satie scale.this is so not Satie. He goes across Fmin (harm mel) Dorian to Cm in (harm mel) Dorian. If you need theory. But mayen even you know what he composed it with his ears to fool us on purpose
Dude no joke.... what would you call those things in English I need to know...obviously I get the joke its typical English like I know its diff without the slur
Haha, I never noticed, that's pretty funny! Also, wow, my first hate comment (I guess?!) - that must mean that the channel is becoming more visible on TH-cam :D
@@andynalysis You are doing just great. I love this peace and it is one of the first peaces I like to master. So your explanation and analysis is very usefull to me. Thank you very much!
That debate among the Saties was intense.
Gnossiennes is my favourite piece of art in music. Every time I hear it, it creates memories never experienced
That's a nice way of describing it! A magical feeling for sure
What a great comment.
I adore these first 3 Gnossiennes of Satie. I am almost addicted to them as you can play them so many different ways according to how you feel !
How about the other 3 Gnossiennes?
This man really put the lick as his intro sound track.....legendary
oops, somebody noticed... :D :D
The conversation between a b & c was amazing
Definitely one of the most hauntingly beautiful peices of music ever written, great analysis
Gave me a huge giggle at that 'remove bar lines' part.. great video my friend! Thanks :-)
Glad you liked it :D
Great analysis. Your 3-way conversation analogy makes it super easy to remember the arrangement. Thanks.
That dorian mode with a raised 4th, Satie-scale, is called Maqam Nikriz in middle-eastern music. It's not something discovered by Satie. There are dozens of old musical pieces written on it.
Thanks for the insight! I didn't get a chance to research in that direction yet, but would love to at some point!
@A_peary_legal Yeah, you could be right. Thanks
I wonder if Satie had visited Algeria / North Africa at that time ? It was during the Colonial era ?
He may have heard something there ?
Why would you say its a raised 4th scale?
Chords are Fm cm BbM So the Bb exist fully.
You stopped listening at the first bars?
@@cecilsproject6796 well i'm not aware of a precise definition of a scale. I use it as some set of notes that are musically very fruitful. Yeah perfect 4th as well as minor 6th and major 7th degrees are used, i just considered them as deviations from the main scale but i guess you can express the same thing with a different main scale and deviating notes. In my opinion raised 4th gives the main flavor of the piece, and i suspect that dorian with a raised 4th is quite a fruitful scale.
Loved the video and the analysis. Intermediate and advance learners will love this channel. Extra cheers for the comical exchange to explain how the three parts converse.
Thank you so much! Indeed a certain level of knowledge is needed, but then that's also part of the fun! ;)
Andy: Thanks for taking the time to put this together - this was well organized. I'm working on this for classical guitar. Greetings from NC, USA.
Thank you. Nice, especially the Satie-like composition part.
Like you the gnossienne is helping me to go through some difficult times, first I learned the number 1, I learned the gymnopedie in between and now learning gnossienne 3. Thank you for the video
That's great! I wish you all the best
I sometimes struggle with feeling call and response in classical music. The use of the 3 persons was amazingly clear! Danke
Happy to hear that! :)
i usually see the parts as different emotions/waves through a story, when I saw this part in the video i thought it was very clever :D
What a great analisys; this is really usefull! Thanks Andy 👍
This is such a clear and informative video. Thank you! Please make more like this if you have time and enjoy it (I definitely enjoyed it!).
Hoping to make another one soon, maybe even before the end of the year! These just take a lot of time and primarily I'm working as a freelance composer and teacher. But I do want to stay (at least somewhat) active on this channel and comments like these are very motivating, so thank you!
@@andynalysis looking forward to the new video! :) By the way I messaged you on your website to ask about harmony/music theory lessons. Let me know if you may be available for teaching! I am interested in understanding the harmonic progressions of modern songs that I like, and how they work, in order to learn them more easily than just by memory. For example, one song that I am interested in is Dust by Duval Timothy.
Thanks so much. I fell under the spell of #1 about 25 years ago and have been trying to master it on guitar ever since. The mood is magical. I must have played it many thousands of times by now and each time I want to play it again, and again . . . it wants to be looped forever. It stops time.
Thank you for watching! Your relationship with this piece sounds very intense, yet very fulfilling. And I imagine it must sound so nice on guitar
Thanks for the analysis, very helpful!
Ich hatte nur deinen Kanal gefunden! Es ist toll! Danke fur deinen Kontent
A thoughtful and erudite analysis, and very enjoyable viewing. I shall sub and look for more!
Thanks for the analysis!
Excellent
Really astonishing !!!
My suggestion is that you can develop even more concerning the 3 personas dialogue, but should transcend analysis of Music and reach phenomenology of Music
But great work you've done!!!
Please, more vídeos!!!
Don't give up! More videos!!
Thank you for the kind words and the helpful feedback! I will definitely keep it in my mind
than you so much for this analysis, very clear and comprehensive
Thank you! Great analysis.
What a great analysis, definitely will help me a lot in my studies. Hugs from Brazil!
I'm very happy to hear that! :) Wishing you all the best
Merci beaucoup !!!
This was a great video and extremely well explained and helped me out a lot. I'd love to see similar simplistic and detailed analysis in the future :))).
Thank you for your comment, I'm very happy to hear that! Currently working on Gnossienne No.2 should be out soon! ;)
Un très grand merci pour cette analyse éclairante.
At last, analysis that I can understand!
If magic is real then gnossinne is magical for sure.. when i play it i just feel like I'm not in this world.. it feels sad and mysterious and dreamy
.. horrifically beautiful
Very good video
Thank you!
Thanks so much this is really interesting!
Nice
Never thought of it as a conversation... but now I can't unsee it; or unhear it I guess.
With that said, I don't know if the choice of images was on purpose, but A sounds like and old man, B like an adult and C like a young man.
I hope you get more followers. Your content is cool.
Thank you!! Maybe it will happen :)
¡thanks a lot broh!
Very nice analysis 😃
Happy you liked it! :)
Nice analysis! Just as a little side note: the basic phrase of part A is 9 "bars" long, not 8 - which adds to its "exotic" flavour, sort of like a phrase of traditional (a.k.a. folk) music from somewhere "east of the west" ;)
That's true, thank you for pointing it out! I guess I just counted the 8 bars of melody and then forgot about the extra bar, I don't remember exactly, because it's already 3 years ago
I love your videos and the witty sense of your humor, keep it up, great channel.
Also, Can u recommend us a good German books to learn Harmony? (I'm studying the Russian school, but I want to see other textbooks)
Thank you for the nice feedback, that means a lot!
To be honest I don't know too many German theory books since I studied abroad. My analysis in this video is mainly based on the Berklee method (Jazz Harmony) - a good book to study that would be e.g. 'The Chord Scale Theory & Jazz Harmony' by Barrie Nettles and Richard Graf.
I know it's convention and this is ultimately just nomenclature, but I think the "Melodic Minor #4" is better thought of as a Lydian b3. I know it's a little hard to accept a major mode with a b3 when the ear wants to hear a minor scale but I have two reasons:
1) It makes it easier to remember because you only have to remember one alteration rather than two.
2) Theoretically, this is much more in line with the history of Western scales. Obviously, it's no secret that our 7 diatonic modes are based on a stack of 6 perfect fifths on top of each other with different pitches treated as the bass/root note. But what gets talked about less is how all of the "odd scales" that tend to be presented as ad hoc aberrations (like the melodic/harmonic minor) are also based on the same stack of fifths, just with one note altered chromatically.
So the melodic minor for instance is just a mode of the same stack of fifths but with the second note raised a semitone (i.e. the Melodic Minor is the Dorian mode of the Lydian #5) Similarly, the Harmonic Minor is the Aeolian Mode of the Lydian #3. And as it turns out, a good deal of the other 'exotic' or 'auxillary' modes that have been used in the history of Western music are also just byproducts of this process. The so-called Acoustic scale adored by Debussy, the Hungarian minor, the Phrygian dominant, some of the weird nameless modes that Shostakovich used, etc. And we can give each and every one of them simple, unique names of the form "*conventional mode name* *chromatic degree*" as long as we keep the parent Lydian collection and its altered chromatic note in mind.
But an important caveat is that these scales are the product of one and exactly *one* chromatic alteration to the stack of 5ths. For if we open the door with things like "Melodic Minor #4' we create the theoretical possibility of an infinite, arbitrary number of alterations. Why stop at two? Why stop at three? And we sort of overcomplicate what is otherwise, a very clean and simple set of transformation principles that relate a great deal of tonal music that might otherwise be obscured.
Now obviously, it can't explain everything. We can't explain the whole tone or octatonic this way. They came about through different symmetrical processes. But it's still a very useful foundation as long as you can accept the possibility of major scales with flattened thirds or raised thirds (i.e. perfect fourths) or sometimes modes with flattened or raised roots.
it really helped me. thanks.
Very happy to hear that! :)
great video! i've actually coincidentally discovered the mel minor #11 variation of the satie on my own before by combining a hungarian minor tetrachord with a major tetrachord - apparently it's also called the lydian diminished scale?
anyway, keep it up!
It's interesting that there are often several names for the same phenomenon. Shows that there are different ways of looking at it. On that note: Combining tetrachords also sounds like a great way to find "new" scales. I haven't thought of that before, thank you! :)
do an episode about Richard Strauss and/or Carl Orff, please!
First interpretations by far are Reinbert de Leeuw's! everyone else goes too fast.
Hi, I've been binge watching your videos! :)
Do a Michael Nyman- big my secret analysis. I don't know if you are interested in his music
Wow, thank you so much! I don't know that piece actually, will check it out, thanks for the tip :)
@@andynalysis It's a track that is part of the piano soundtrack by Nyman
It looks like in the Ending A & C there is a part where the left hand chord plays a note F that is already supposed to be played by the right hand...can you help me understand how that's supposed to be actually played? I'm very much a beginner with reading sheet music, and I'd love to understand this.
Hi Jeff,
the way I played it is that I shared that F Minor chord between both hands. So the f is played by the right hand as it is the end of the phrase and the left hand plays the other two notes. On the next beat the left hand plays the whole chord as before and the right hand rests.
The f in the melody is indeed written as sustained, but it's note possible to hold the same note twice on a piano.
I hope this explanation makes sense! :)
Repetition legitimize, Repetition legitimize, Repetition legitimize....
Not sure if this is true or not but apparently Satie did not want people to stop and listen to his pieces. They should
be audible as " background " only..?
Well, I suppose I failed then. 😁
Indeed I read something like that once, and that Satie is kind of the father of elevator music in that sense, but I'd have to check again if that is true
He said so many things . Some of them meant rather whimsically .
Who knows what he meant when he used the word " listen "....?
Your work is of great value to many of us..!
@@2msvalkyrie529 Yes, Satie was quite the troll as we would say nowadays. :D
Thank you for the kind words!
Takes a German to understand good French music.
The g is silent
Why create a scale? Did satie spoke about his satie scale.this is so not Satie.
He goes across Fmin (harm mel) Dorian to Cm in (harm mel) Dorian.
If you need theory.
But mayen even you know what he composed it with his ears to fool us on purpose
Dude no joke.... what would you call those things in English I need to know...obviously I get the joke its typical English
like I know its diff without the slur
I'm not sure what you mean by your last sentence but it's just called acciacatura, I'm not sure if there is an English name for it
dudes english is so bad that the algorithm thinks hes talking german.
Haha, I never noticed, that's pretty funny!
Also, wow, my first hate comment (I guess?!) - that must mean that the channel is becoming more visible on TH-cam :D
@@andynalysis You are doing just great. I love this peace and it is one of the first peaces I like to master. So your explanation and analysis is very usefull to me. Thank you very much!