Bad story by 60 minutes and bad research by these clowns making this video. China first learned to take off and land on aircraft carriers back in end of 1980's when Australia sold them HMAS Melbourne a aircraft carrier as scrap. they studied the landing deck and took it off and practised landing and take offs back then. then bought 2 other aircraft carriers also and did same and rebuilt the Ukrainian one that is now their 1st ever useable aircraft carrier of China. Is more to the story either true or made up US BS like US always does to get it's own way. He taught them more and all our Western combat air tactics or all made up..
@@crusty251 The alleged violation is for the Arms Control Export Act, which has an out if someone trains a foreign military with the permission of the US government. I'm am 100% certain that Boeing wouldn't have hired Gonky if they hadn't cleared it with the DoD.
It's not just the "training Chinese pilots" that he's in troubles for. He faces charges of conspiracy, arms trafficking and money laundering. US authorities found correspondence with Duggan on electronic devices seized from Su Bin a convicted Chinese defense hacker. Su Bin, arrested in Canada in 2014, pleaded guilty in 2016 to theft of US military aircraft designs by hacking major US defense contractors. He is listed among seven co-conspirators with Duggan in the extradition request. The training of pilots is just the juicy headline.
That's even easier to explain, if Bin was that involved in a Chinese spy operation then yes he'd be looking to make contacts with people to exploit them. Plus the alphabet guys are really adept at charging people
Those are likely trumped up charges, à la racketeering charges. Money laundering charge for transferring dollars to rand to rmb when that's where he was living?
Later in the 60 minutes interview they did state that he and his wife lived in China for a period of time after the South Africa gig, so there’s that. He also had contracts to help evaluate Chinese military pilots as they progressed through phases of training and they he taught combat tactics beyond “landing on carriers”…allegedly. I’m not saying he’s guilty or innocent, but does he really expect anyone to believe that he had no idea that the military aged Chinese dudes he was training in South Africa weren’t part of the military? As Joe would say, “Come on man.”
Add to that the fact that he renounced his US citizenship in the Beijing US embassy. Dude was shady af and did absolutely nothing to help his situation.
@@kmrtnsn lots of things have happened since 1946... the relationship has gone up and down. Chinese PLA used to train with USMC in Australia. Only a decade or so ago
@@RDEnduro They did, but you could also kick ass with a A-4 loaded with Sidewinder if you were trained as a fighter pilot. It is the training as much as the platform. (Also, I was just poking fun at Harrier pilots. 😆)
And at 6:30 Wombat goes from being a well loved guest on the show to MY NEW HERO!!! 😂🤣 Let's be serious: We all owe Wombat a beer because he is just brilliant. - Wombat... Thank you so much for your twisted acerbic humor. My day just got better!
What is missing s the type of flit school in South Africa we are talking about. Is it a military school? Was South Africa contracting to instruct Chinese military pilots?
Correct.. i knew a spanish ex Harrier driver and he told us he went throught the entire T-45 course with traps before moving to the Harrier.. aparently a requirement for naval aviators even if you are not suposed to trap later
Thank you for giving us another look into this, gives me something to ponder about what really is going on, we may never know the truth,..... I always enjoy when the 3 of you are together, I find myself laughing out loud! Again, thank you for all you do!
i love this show! wombat is growing on me, his view is slightly different but always quality. good show today. i seriously laughed, and thought.. cheers
As a former enlisted aircrew (Hunt for Red October) who 'knows things', retired in the 90s and I have no current intel in my head, there are still things I will NEVER do. One big one... I will never step foot in Russia or China. When Mr. Dugan stepped into China many years ago, you can bet he was surveilled and approached, even if he didn't realize it (and likewise when he came in close contact with a Chinese national in South Africa). Espionage 101. It never ends. Read KGB, The Inside Story, which was co-authored by a defector, about 800 pages. Our adversaries have bean counters of every stripe, including tracking people. He should have told his wife, NO, not doing it.
Up until recent years a lot of Cathay pilots were ex RAF, RAAF, RCAF etc living in Hong Kong. Difference between them and this Muppet was they weren't stupid and stayed in their lane and took the cash for flying A330s etc without exposing state secrets.
I m a Malaysian. Do you know that China recently brokered peace between Saudi and Iran. 1. USA, not China, is the threat of the world nations. Since the end of WWII to 2001, roughly 248 military conflicts occurred in 153 regions around the world, of which the US waged 201, accounting for 80 percent of all wars worldwide. China has traded with SE Asian for 2000 years. In those years, they had been the world’s biggest powers many times. Never once they sent troops to take our land. Admiral Zhenghe came to Malacca five times, in gigantic fleets, and a flagship eight times the size of Christopher Columbus’ flagship, Santa Maria. He could have seized Malacca easily, but he did not. In 1511, the Portuguese came. In 1642, the Dutch came. In the 18th century the British came. We were colonised by each, one after another. When China wanted spices from India, they traded with the Indians. When they wanted gems, they traded with the Persian. They didn’t take lands. The only time China expanded beyond their current borders was in Yuan Dynasty, when Genghis and his descendants Ogedei Khan, Guyuk Khan & Kublai Khan conquered China, Mid Asia and Eastern Europe. But Yuan Dynasty, although being based in China, was a part of the Mongolian Empire. Then came the Century of Humiliation. Britain smuggled opium into China to dope the population, a strategy to turn the trade deficit around, after the British could not find enough silver to pay the Qing Dynasty in their tea and porcelain trades. After the opium warehouses were burned down and ports were closed by the Chinese in ordered to curb opium, the British started the Opium War I, which China lost. Hong Kong was forced to be surrendered to the British in a peace talk (Nanjing Treaty). The British owned 90% of the opium market in China, during that time, Queen Victoria was the world’s biggest drug baron. The remaining 10% was owned by American merchants from Boston. Many of Boston’s institutions were built with profit from opium. After 12 years of Nanjing Treaty, the West started getting really really greedy. The British wanted the Qing government: 1. To open the borders of China to allow goods coming in and out freely, and tax free. 2. Make opium legal in China. Insane requests, Qing government said no. The British and French, with supports from the US and Russia from behind, started Opium War II with China, which again, China lost. The Anglo-French military raided the Summer Palace, and threatened to burn down the Imperial Palace, the Qing government was forced to pay with ports, free business zones, 300,000 kilograms of silver and Kowloon was taken. Since then, China’s resources flew out freely through these business zones and ports. In the subsequent amendment to the treaties, Chinese people were sold overseas to serve as labor. In 1900, China suffered attacks by the 8-National Alliance(Japan, Russia, Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary). Innocent Chinese civilians in Peking (Beijing now) were murdered, buildings were destroyed & women were raped. The Imperial Palace was raided, and treasures ended up in museums like the British Museum in London and the Louvre in Paris. In late 1930s China was occupied by the Japanese in WWII. Millions of Chinese died during the occupancy. 300,000 Chinese died in Nanjing Massacre alone. Mao brought China together again from the shambles. There were peace and unity for some time. But Mao’s later reign saw sufferings and deaths from famine and power struggles. Then came Deng Xiao Ping and his famous “black-cat and white-cat” story. His preference in pragmatism than ideologies has transformed China. This thinking allowed China to evolve all the time to adapt to the actual needs in the country, instead of rigidly bounded to ideologies. It also signified the death of Communism in actually practice in China. The current Socialism+Meritocracy+Market Economy model fits the Chinese like gloves, and it propels the uprise of China. Singapore has a similar model, and has been arguably more successful than Hong Kong, because Hong Kong being gateway to China, was riding on the economic boom in China, while Singapore had no one to gain from. In just 30 years, the CCP have moved 800 millions of people out from poverty. The rate of growth is unprecedented in human history. They have built the biggest mobile network, by far the biggest high speed rail network in the world, and they have become a behemoth in infrastructure. They made a fishing village called Shenzhen into the world’s second largest technological centre after the Silicon Valley. They are growing into a technological power house. It has the most elaborate e-commerce and cashless payment system in the world. They have launched exploration to Mars. The Chinese are living a good life and China has become one of the safest countries in the world. The level of patriotism in the country has reached an unprecedented height. For all of the achievements, the West has nothing good to say about it. China suffers from intense anti-China propagandas from the West. Western Media used the keyword “Communist” to instil fear and hatred towards China. Everything China does is negatively reported. The West claimed China used slave labor in making iPhones. The truth was, Apple was the most profitable company in the world, it took most of the profit, leave some to Foxconn (a Taiwanese company) and little to the labor. The west claimed China underwent ethnic cleansing in Xinjiang. The fact is China has a policy which priorities ethnic minorities. For a long time, the ethnic minorities were allowed to have two children and the majority Han only allowed one. The minorities are allowed a lower score for university intakes. There are 39,000 mosque in China, and 2100 in the US. China has about 3 times more mosque per muslim than the US.
CV NATOPS is unclassified and my squad uses it in DCS. I actually started teaching then CV NATOPS way back during the Microsoft Flight Sim II Pacific Theater days starting in 1999.
One point that may be worth weighing.....if he did actually give away classified information - or at least proprietary information that's considered sensitive - it may not be in the charging documents because those could be released publicly. So maybe the carrier stuff is the only thing that was talked about for news to latch on to. That might be a reach, for sure, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
It's probably NOT a bad idea to check back with the services -- just in case. When former military guys are writing their memoirs or fiction based on their past experiences, there are definitely some clearances they have to pass and things they can't talk about -- at least not directly. You can't be giving out specs and flight envelopes for things like air to air missiles, for instance. Do you think Hollywood can produce films like TOP GUN without clearance from the federal government? You don't get to make the film WITH THEIR HELP unless you listen to them and make the script changes they "request"! That "request" may be THEIR demands that you give into unless you want to pay an extra $250,000 out of your pocket to CGI mock dogfights they may only charge you a $50,000 gas bill for! That's how this works...
Basically yes, military skills you recieved while in service to the US govt are covered, you are required to get permission from the department of state to use these skills in the service of a foriegn govt or organisation Also note this covers non military persons. I work with an american dual citizen, he spent a couple of years working at one of the big MIC on phased arrays. The knowledge he learned while working there is covered under itars. So if he does worked with phased arrays for any company he is required to get permission from the state department
Im just a normal non pilot viewer and it was relieving(and funny) to see you guys laugh when they mentioned carrier training, but also does that mean his charges are over the top?
Will always err towards trust of law but this one is curious… On the eve of selling a property to fund his defence, he was stopped, why won’t they let this guy have due process?
There's definitely more to it like was said. It can't just be teaching how to land. There are at least a hundred videos, some even from the U.S Navy, showing how aircraft land on carriers. from the Pilots to the LSOs and even down to all the sailors and equipment that make it possible. You can find tactics and procedures on TH-cam for every branch of the U.S military. The guy must have actually been giving sensitive information directly to China or something like that. The U.S must be unable to say exactly what he did because that would compromise security.
Hard to say for us if he actually did anything. Like they said in the video it could be someone with a vendetta and he didn’t really do anything, or it could be entirely legitimate and he’s a traitorous animal.
@@chadwells7562 I've seen other comments saying that he was in China at one point and was doing a lot more than just teaching carrier landings. This is the Internet though so who really knows besides the people directly involved. I'll do my own digging and see what I find. Easier than being wrong.
@@RedTail1-1 For sure the only way to even have any real idea is to do your own digging. I definitely don’t take the government and state media at their word that this guy is a POS when it could just be an axe to grind or using him to make a point. Common sense tells me that a dude who’s been out 10+ years and was a Harrier pilot can’t have known that much secret squirrel stuff so this is overblown. Would I train the Chinese enemy? No, but I don’t think a moral objection equates sending this dude to prison for 70 years.
@@kmrtnsn I know that they said they've discussed this guy before, but I wish for this video they didn't only selectively address a couple of short clips of the episode. Had they addressed the full episode, or atleast the key points, the fact that he was in China for several years would've been brought up, his renouncing of his citizenship, etc. They even said something about the fact that "had he been in China training pilots...." Well he literally was in China for several years, so one should definitely wonder what exactly he was doing there. There's also more to this than him "training" on carrier ops. What about engagement strategies, maneuvers, etc. There are a fair number of mil pilots that play DCS and they've mentioned how they have to be careful about how and what they do in the game so not to reveal combat strategies, etc.
@2:25 "unless you're in political office". Hahahahahaha. So sad but so true. And the "things my wife never said' also cracked me up. Wombat is en fuego today Also, @4:40 If he actually sold/spilled secrets, lock him up. But ANY MSM is a clown $hit show. 100% on team Gonky. And Gonky's 'I disinvite you" is 100% spot on. BEST. SHOW. EVER
This is the Australian equivalent of blowing up Nordstream. Two Aussies imprisoned indefinitely in the US Imperial Provinces pending a US extradition case...
It's far less of an issue because an engineering degree doesn't give one access to confidential or classified information. Also, you can get an engineering degree at a good European university.
I researched hypersonics few years ago wondering why USA was behind, when they usually are ahead. found good info even Australia is one of most advanced in hypersonics that no one speaks of. Anyway a Chinese guy is building a hypersonic aeroplane and he worked at NASA and returned to China and took a abandoned NASA project with him and how is building it. China claim of world fastest hypersonic wind tunnel is a stolen Australian Ray Stalker free piston shock tunnel design they claim they improved to make it world fastest. Australian's have world fastest scramjet at mach 12 and Ray Stalker Aussie is recorded as first to get essence of flight from scramjets. All these Aussies teach space and aeronautics at Queensland university where Chinese are one of Australia biggest trades. Yes we teach them it all in our universities. computer programming. cyber security, engineering. Australia, USA and UK have the highest levels of University rating in the world and we teach them everything. Ray Stalker tubes the hypersonic wind tunnel is at Universities in Australia students use to study technology lol.. Chinese students used these lol.
_60 Minutes Australia's_ post production must not understand that Harriers do not land on this [2:52] type of carrier. Was this Chinese *Su Bin* character (that was reportedly convicted for hacking) really Daniel Duggan's former business partner, _and_ did Duggan literally renounce his US citizenship while living in Beijing before returning to Australia? This whole story makes my brain hurt
Bunch of my buddies went and taught the Saudi's privately when they got out and made a fortune. It was well known career path after getting out of the RCAF. You could put on a decent training program with all the unclass stuff out there.
firstly Canada doesn't have any law preventing them doing so, same as the australian and UK pilots who did it. Note both AUS and UK bought in legislation to prevent their pilots doing this in the future. Also KSA is a an ally and its not difficult to get permission from the state department for american pilots to do training. Just like gronly when he was in Malaysia flying with them
The video just seems to be too vague to draw any kind of conclusions. I need to know 1) Exactly what information this man conveyed. 2) Was it labeled by the DOD as classified information? 3) who exactly did he tell that to? 4) Were they either representatives of, or directly connected to, the Chinese government? 5) What was his intent and purpose in passing this information on? If the United States government does intend to prosecute the man, they need to present this information to a grand jury per the terms of the fifth amendment in order to obtain an indictment against him. Again, by the terms of the fifth amendment, you cannot deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law. We need to remember that and act accordingly.
I doubt very much that the US government would go after someone to the extent that they are if there was not something to it. I doubt this guy is innocent, he gave up his US citizenship, who does that? Especially a Marine. There is a reason he did, likely to avoid extradition of an Australian citizen rather than as an American citizen. I hope we find out the full extent of what he is accused of and why. If there is one thing I hate more than anything, it's a traitor.
The company you keep says a lot about your intentions. Su Bin. None of us know all the details. If he was part of compromising US security than that speaks for itself. All for $$$. He loved the US so much that he renounced his citizenship when it was unnecessary to do so. Emotional appeals won’t save the lives lost if he did betray the trust.
Duggan did live in China between 2005 to 2014. Important stuff happened during those years in view of China's carrier aviation history. For instance, China had just acquired the Kiev from Russia in 2002. China had just started playing with carrier ops and was probably very interested to know anything about how the US operated it's aviation. The Kiev would become China's first operational aircraft carrier, refitted and renamed the Liaoning. China had acquired one WWII carrier, and two Soviet carriers which got renovated to become theme parks. What if Duggan was quite incapable of properly training carrier landings, not having the applicable experience, but the money on offer was really sweet so he decided to fake it since there was no need to really "make it". He could have looked really credible because he was actually a trained fighter pilot. He'd have totally looked like hot shit to civilians amped up on Top Gun. He could have easily drawn the attention of the Chinese Air Force even if he was "only" a Harrier pilot. Duggan could have chosen to be unethical on both fronts: to reveal military secrets to China, while actually being knowingly incompetent. It's kind of a hilarious way to be a jackass while making bank. From America's standpoint he is sharing his training which is an offense. From China's standpoint, he could have been way more credible back in the day when DCS didn't yet exist. Way back in 2005, Duggan could have looked like a really good source given that China had only one operational carrier acquired from Russia named the Kiev in 2002. China could have been so ignorant in carrier operations that Duggan was a relative expert. From Duggan's perspective he didn't feel that he wasn't sharing anything sensitive because he knew he wasn't actually a carrier pilot. Now in 2024 Duggan doesn't look like a credible carrier landing instructor. He looks like a goof, but to the Chinese, in 2010, he might have been the best that they could when they were more desperate to figure things out. They were pressured to start figuring things out because they were planning to lay the keel for their first indigenous carrier, Shandong, in 2013. When one is desperate for information they will pay for many sources. Including sources which aren't ideal. I sense that Duggan was probably a crap instructor for carrier landings, but he was the best that the Chinese could get at the time, right when they were looking to get into the carrier game. Duggan had probably talked to more actual US carrier pilots than China could find on Google so even as a 2nd hand source he was useful. In this context, I can see the US government deciding to make a stern warning out of Duggan to the myriad of pilots that the US trains: don't even think of thinking about training THE ENEMY. It is political, but only because Duggan is incompetent. If Duggan was competent then it would be clear that he was in violation, but maybe competence isn't really the point. The message is: Don't even think of sharing your training, of any kind, to non ITAR states. Even if you are incompetent.
@@ivantheteribul I got the names mixed up. The Varyag became the Liaoning, not the Kiev. The Kiev became a theme park. I think I got the years right though. China makes their first carrier landings on the Liaoning in late 2012, not long after Duggan started living in China in 2010. Just before in 2011, China starts practicing deck operations on a land emplaced built concrete carrier deck. I think the timing of events does allow for the possibility that Duggan provided training assistance to China during his residency in China. The timing of events isn't proof though. Maybe the contents of the communications from Su Bin provide the evidence that the US Gov is reasonably acting on.
Seems like this guy is being railroaded. Like the guys said, if he'd gone to China that would have been one thing, but working at a flight school in South Africa is another. He didn't even own the flight school as far as we know, he just worked there.
The CCP may not have a VTOL aircraft now, but that doesn't mean they aren't in the process of developing one. Also, there IS a process in place for determining what happened. It's called a trial.....
What could he possibly teach about landing a conventional navy aircraft aboard a super carrier without a conventional navy aircraft or a super carrier? I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the former U.S. Marine. Much of our own government are much bigger traitors. Also, true about DCS teaching more anyway.
If he broke nda rules then charge him thusly. But if it is being conflated beyond that. Maybe not so cool at all. I think that is about it. If I speed and hit pulled over fora speed ing ticket. Give me the citation.But don’t use that stop to further investigate my self beyond that, etc.
Hmmm. So I am a professional with a non-transferable set of qualifications to the real world. Fighter Pilot. I get an opportunity to teach the fun part to anyone at a flying school in another country. Someone offers me a huge amount of money to do the same thing but that someone is not one of US - I am a traitor. Even though the practical fun bit is something ANYONE can learn from various flight schools in the US and Britain; John Boyd (Fighter Mafia) who DID write the book about modern fighter tactics - his report is unclassified and freely downloadable from the internet. NATOPS is unclassified and freely downloadable from the internet. If I approach the pension department of the US Military and say someone offered me a huge amount of money to do this so will you pay me the same amount to NOT do this? The cheque will be in the mail tomorrow? Gonky - all I can say is that it is a good thing that Malaysia is one of US or you would be in huge trouble. I am also sure that fighter tactics in aircraft from the 1950s and 1960s is very up to date and useful to today's modern fighter operations. BTW if you have the money ANYONE can sign up to the Empire Test Pilots School in Britain and they will teach you how to be a Test Pilot, that includes everything you would practically need to know on how to take any aircraft to the edge of the envelope - very useful when creating and modifying tactics.
@@kmrtnsn Renunciation is a lengthly bureaucratic process. I think he started the process in Australia, and make have met at the US embassy in Beijing if he was working there at the time.
One thing I found interesting is that Duggan didn't become a resident of Australia or even a dual citizen, he gave up his US citizenship. This video skipped over a lot of details. I guess that's what the trial will be for.
So a Harrier pilot taught Chinese pilots how to land on a carrier, without an actual carrier in South Africa, over 10 years ago? I know more about landing on a carrier by watching DCS videos on TH-cam than he would have been able to teach Chinese pilots flying Cessna's in South Africa. I don't think we're getting the whole story here.
I love Wombat; he brings great insight and beautiful rants to the channel. However, the shizat going on with China is not some political BS. The Chinese will tell you the tension between them and the US and our Pacific allies is because of bad behavior by the US, Australia, and the Philippines. Anyone with half a brain knows the source of the problems between the two sides is the result of frequent dangerous and provocative behavior by China over the years. Yet, maybe I don’t understand what Wombat was trying to say at the end of the discussion.
12yrs later? WTF is that all about and as the panel stated, what could he have done to justify going after him 12yrs later, let alone being a harrier pilot, WTF! Our government is so out of control!
"He's not exactly living in the land of freedom". The fact he lives in Australia has nothing to do with how the US decided to prosecute him. Plus Australia ranks higher on every freedom index than the US anyway and we have Margot Robbie so cope with that.
everyone in DCS, that made a video on landing on the boat is going to jail...
Sheeeet, that's me fcuked 😂🤣
I'm skipping town... BTW, wasn't merc Gonky and few other aviators giving us advice?!
Does fireball on the deck count as a landing?
Bad story by 60 minutes and bad research by these clowns making this video. China first learned to take off and land on aircraft carriers back in end of 1980's when Australia sold them HMAS Melbourne a aircraft carrier as scrap. they studied the landing deck and took it off and practised landing and take offs back then. then bought 2 other aircraft carriers also and did same and rebuilt the Ukrainian one that is now their 1st ever useable aircraft carrier of China.
Is more to the story either true or made up US BS like US always does to get it's own way.
He taught them more and all our Western combat air tactics or all made up..
@@crusty251
The alleged violation is for the Arms Control Export Act, which has an out if someone trains a foreign military with the permission of the US government. I'm am 100% certain that Boeing wouldn't have hired Gonky if they hadn't cleared it with the DoD.
It's not just the "training Chinese pilots" that he's in troubles for. He faces charges of conspiracy, arms trafficking and money laundering. US authorities found correspondence with Duggan on electronic devices seized from Su Bin a convicted Chinese defense hacker. Su Bin, arrested in Canada in 2014, pleaded guilty in 2016 to theft of US military aircraft designs by hacking major US defense contractors. He is listed among seven co-conspirators with Duggan in the extradition request. The training of pilots is just the juicy headline.
Then it is more serious than even the video tells. Whether he in particular is guilty, I cannot understand how a military member can commit such acts.
That's even easier to explain, if Bin was that involved in a Chinese spy operation then yes he'd be looking to make contacts with people to exploit them. Plus the alphabet guys are really adept at charging people
Those are likely trumped up charges, à la racketeering charges. Money laundering charge for transferring dollars to rand to rmb when that's where he was living?
Thanks!
Thank you for the support!!!
As a proud Aussie I for one was not offended by your "he got him a Margot Robbie"! You guys are the best humour in my week,
Certain politicians have done worse and still walking free.
I love it when you guys talk about stuff like this.
Later in the 60 minutes interview they did state that he and his wife lived in China for a period of time after the South Africa gig, so there’s that. He also had contracts to help evaluate Chinese military pilots as they progressed through phases of training and they he taught combat tactics beyond “landing on carriers”…allegedly. I’m not saying he’s guilty or innocent, but does he really expect anyone to believe that he had no idea that the military aged Chinese dudes he was training in South Africa weren’t part of the military? As Joe would say, “Come on man.”
At the time, China wasn't an adversary.
@@DollyRanchI don’t know where you’ve been living since 1946 but China has always been considered an adversary.
Add to that the fact that he renounced his US citizenship in the Beijing US embassy. Dude was shady af and did absolutely nothing to help his situation.
@@kmrtnsn lots of things have happened since 1946... the relationship has gone up and down. Chinese PLA used to train with USMC in Australia. Only a decade or so ago
@@DollyRanch Never, ever happened.
I’m an Aussie and I love you guys, you’re so cool in your discussions.
Keep up the good work. 😆😆
“My wife will never say that about me.” 😆
In no way, shape, or form is a Scarier pilot a Fighter Pilot.
“No offense to Harrier pilots.” 😝
Have you seen the Harrier footage of the Falklands war? Those pilots were doing it all
@@RDEnduro They did, but you could also kick ass with a A-4 loaded with Sidewinder if you were trained as a fighter pilot. It is the training as much as the platform. (Also, I was just poking fun at Harrier pilots. 😆)
And at 6:30 Wombat goes from being a well loved guest on the show to MY NEW HERO!!! 😂🤣
Let's be serious: We all owe Wombat a beer because he is just brilliant.
- Wombat... Thank you so much for your twisted acerbic humor. My day just got better!
What is missing s the type of flit school in South Africa we are talking about. Is it a military school? Was South Africa contracting to instruct Chinese military pilots?
Does NATOPS cover and apply to Harrier's?
Given that there's a NATOPS manual for the Harrier, I would think that's a yes.
@3:06 All Harrier guys went through the strike fighter pipeline, which means they carrier qualed on the T-45
Correct.. i knew a spanish ex Harrier driver and he told us he went throught the entire T-45 course with traps before moving to the Harrier.. aparently a requirement for naval aviators even if you are not suposed to trap later
Thank you for giving us another look into this, gives me something to ponder about what really is going on, we may never know the truth,..... I always enjoy when the 3 of you are together, I find myself laughing out loud! Again, thank you for all you do!
i love this show! wombat is growing on me, his view is slightly different but always quality.
good show today. i seriously laughed, and thought.. cheers
As a former enlisted aircrew (Hunt for Red October) who 'knows things', retired in the 90s and I have no current intel in my head, there are still things I will NEVER do. One big one... I will never step foot in Russia or China. When Mr. Dugan stepped into China many years ago, you can bet he was surveilled and approached, even if he didn't realize it (and likewise when he came in close contact with a Chinese national in South Africa). Espionage 101. It never ends. Read KGB, The Inside Story, which was co-authored by a defector, about 800 pages. Our adversaries have bean counters of every stripe, including tracking people. He should have told his wife, NO, not doing it.
Up until recent years a lot of Cathay pilots were ex RAF, RAAF, RCAF etc living in Hong Kong. Difference between them and this Muppet was they weren't stupid and stayed in their lane and took the cash for flying A330s etc without exposing state secrets.
I m a Malaysian.
Do you know that China recently brokered peace between Saudi and Iran.
1. USA, not China, is the threat of the world nations. Since the end of WWII to 2001, roughly 248 military conflicts occurred in 153 regions around the world, of which the US waged 201, accounting for 80 percent of all wars worldwide.
China has traded with SE Asian for 2000 years. In those years, they had been the world’s biggest powers many times. Never once they sent troops to take our land. Admiral Zhenghe came to Malacca five times, in gigantic fleets, and a flagship eight times the size of Christopher Columbus’ flagship, Santa Maria. He could have seized Malacca easily, but he did not. In 1511, the Portuguese came. In 1642, the Dutch came. In the 18th century the British came. We were colonised by each, one after another.
When China wanted spices from India, they traded with the Indians. When they wanted gems, they traded with the Persian. They didn’t take lands. The only time China expanded beyond their current borders was in Yuan Dynasty, when Genghis and his descendants Ogedei Khan, Guyuk Khan & Kublai Khan conquered China, Mid Asia and Eastern Europe. But Yuan Dynasty, although being based in China, was a part of the Mongolian Empire.
Then came the Century of Humiliation. Britain smuggled opium into China to dope the population, a strategy to turn the trade deficit around, after the British could not find enough silver to pay the Qing Dynasty in their tea and porcelain trades. After the opium warehouses were burned down and ports were closed by the Chinese in ordered to curb opium, the British started the Opium War I, which China lost. Hong Kong was forced to be surrendered to the British in a peace talk (Nanjing Treaty). The British owned 90% of the opium market in China, during that time, Queen Victoria was the world’s biggest drug baron. The remaining 10% was owned by American merchants from Boston. Many of Boston’s institutions were built with profit from opium.
After 12 years of Nanjing Treaty, the West started getting really really greedy. The British wanted the Qing government:
1. To open the borders of China to allow goods coming in and out freely, and tax free.
2. Make opium legal in China.
Insane requests, Qing government said no. The British and French, with supports from the US and Russia from behind, started Opium War II with China, which again, China lost. The Anglo-French military raided the Summer Palace, and threatened to burn down the Imperial Palace, the Qing government was forced to pay with ports, free business zones, 300,000 kilograms of silver and Kowloon was taken. Since then, China’s resources flew out freely through these business zones and ports. In the subsequent amendment to the treaties, Chinese people were sold overseas to serve as labor.
In 1900, China suffered attacks by the 8-National Alliance(Japan, Russia, Britain, France, USA, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary). Innocent Chinese civilians in Peking (Beijing now) were murdered, buildings were destroyed & women were raped. The Imperial Palace was raided, and treasures ended up in museums like the British Museum in London and the Louvre in Paris.
In late 1930s China was occupied by the Japanese in WWII. Millions of Chinese died during the occupancy. 300,000 Chinese died in Nanjing Massacre alone.
Mao brought China together again from the shambles. There were peace and unity for some time. But Mao’s later reign saw sufferings and deaths from famine and power struggles.
Then came Deng Xiao Ping and his famous “black-cat and white-cat” story. His preference in pragmatism than ideologies has transformed China. This thinking allowed China to evolve all the time to adapt to the actual needs in the country, instead of rigidly bounded to ideologies. It also signified the death of Communism in actually practice in China. The current Socialism+Meritocracy+Market Economy model fits the Chinese like gloves, and it propels the uprise of China. Singapore has a similar model, and has been arguably more successful than Hong Kong, because Hong Kong being gateway to China, was riding on the economic boom in China, while Singapore had no one to gain from.
In just 30 years, the CCP have moved 800 millions of people out from poverty. The rate of growth is unprecedented in human history. They have built the biggest mobile network, by far the biggest high speed rail network in the world, and they have become a behemoth in infrastructure. They made a fishing village called Shenzhen into the world’s second largest technological centre after the Silicon Valley. They are growing into a technological power house. It has the most elaborate e-commerce and cashless payment system in the world. They have launched exploration to Mars. The Chinese are living a good life and China has become one of the safest countries in the world. The level of patriotism in the country has reached an unprecedented height.
For all of the achievements, the West has nothing good to say about it. China suffers from intense anti-China propagandas from the West. Western Media used the keyword “Communist” to instil fear and hatred towards China. Everything China does is negatively reported.
The West claimed China used slave labor in making iPhones. The truth was, Apple was the most profitable company in the world, it took most of the profit, leave some to Foxconn (a Taiwanese company) and little to the labor.
The west claimed China underwent ethnic cleansing in Xinjiang. The fact is China has a policy which priorities ethnic minorities. For a long time, the ethnic minorities were allowed to have two children and the majority Han only allowed one. The minorities are allowed a lower score for university intakes. There are 39,000 mosque in China, and 2100 in the US. China has about 3 times more mosque per muslim than the US.
CV NATOPS is unclassified and my squad uses it in DCS. I actually started teaching then CV NATOPS way back during the Microsoft Flight Sim II Pacific Theater days starting in 1999.
One point that may be worth weighing.....if he did actually give away classified information - or at least proprietary information that's considered sensitive - it may not be in the charging documents because those could be released publicly. So maybe the carrier stuff is the only thing that was talked about for news to latch on to.
That might be a reach, for sure, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
The only question should be does he want a blindfold or not
Do former military have to report to the govt if they're contracting for other countries?
It's probably NOT a bad idea to check back with the services -- just in case.
When former military guys are writing their memoirs or fiction based on their past experiences, there are definitely some clearances they have to pass and things they can't talk about -- at least not directly. You can't be giving out specs and flight envelopes for things like air to air missiles, for instance.
Do you think Hollywood can produce films like TOP GUN without clearance from the federal government? You don't get to make the film WITH THEIR HELP unless you listen to them and make the script changes they "request"! That "request" may be THEIR demands that you give into unless you want to pay an extra $250,000 out of your pocket to CGI mock dogfights they may only charge you a $50,000 gas bill for! That's how this works...
Yes they are required to get the OK from the US
Basically yes, military skills you recieved while in service to the US govt are covered, you are required to get permission from the department of state to use these skills in the service of a foriegn govt or organisation
Also note this covers non military persons. I work with an american dual citizen, he spent a couple of years working at one of the big MIC on phased arrays. The knowledge he learned while working there is covered under itars. So if he does worked with phased arrays for any company he is required to get permission from the state department
Didn’t Marine SNAs who tracked for Harriers go through T-45s and the CQ syllabus?
This guy is probably old enough to have gone through T-2s, and TA-4s, but yes, he would have have CQ in intermediate and advanced.
The US Govt does go after DCS players. Heard of Cap from Grim Reapers? They went after him for their vids.
Did you guys watch the full story before you recorded this? Doesn’t sound like it.
Yeah, they skipped over a lot...
9:40 Finally! Gonky said it! No need to please everybody it's impossible anyways.
It's a little bit of both, training the adversary AND hyperbole of what was trained
He was using simulators like DCS in south Africa.
Im just a normal non pilot viewer and it was relieving(and funny) to see you guys laugh when they mentioned carrier training, but also does that mean his charges are over the top?
Will always err towards trust of law but this one is curious… On the eve of selling a property to fund his defence, he was stopped, why won’t they let this guy have due process?
He would have been a T45 guy at some point? And did he pass any actual classified info?
And I think his school had a supersonic JL-9 (FTC 2000)
The spanish navy Harrier drivers definitily go throught the T-45 so im guessing the USMC (and Italians) does too
Great discussion.
There's definitely more to it like was said. It can't just be teaching how to land.
There are at least a hundred videos, some even from the U.S Navy, showing how aircraft land on carriers. from the Pilots to the LSOs and even down to all the sailors and equipment that make it possible. You can find tactics and procedures on TH-cam for every branch of the U.S military.
The guy must have actually been giving sensitive information directly to China or something like that. The U.S must be unable to say exactly what he did because that would compromise security.
Hard to say for us if he actually did anything. Like they said in the video it could be someone with a vendetta and he didn’t really do anything, or it could be entirely legitimate and he’s a traitorous animal.
I’m pretty sure the Chinese navy have had that figured out for a while. They don’t need an American teaching them
@@chadwells7562 I've seen other comments saying that he was in China at one point and was doing a lot more than just teaching carrier landings. This is the Internet though so who really knows besides the people directly involved. I'll do my own digging and see what I find. Easier than being wrong.
@@RedTail1-1 For sure the only way to even have any real idea is to do your own digging. I definitely don’t take the government and state media at their word that this guy is a POS when it could just be an axe to grind or using him to make a point. Common sense tells me that a dude who’s been out 10+ years and was a Harrier pilot can’t have known that much secret squirrel stuff so this is overblown. Would I train the Chinese enemy? No, but I don’t think a moral objection equates sending this dude to prison for 70 years.
He did move to China for a number of years. Just saying.. he also renounced his US citizenship
He renounced at the US Embassy in Beijing. That in itself is telling.
@@kmrtnsn I know that they said they've discussed this guy before, but I wish for this video they didn't only selectively address a couple of short clips of the episode. Had they addressed the full episode, or atleast the key points, the fact that he was in China for several years would've been brought up, his renouncing of his citizenship, etc. They even said something about the fact that "had he been in China training pilots...." Well he literally was in China for several years, so one should definitely wonder what exactly he was doing there. There's also more to this than him "training" on carrier ops. What about engagement strategies, maneuvers, etc. There are a fair number of mil pilots that play DCS and they've mentioned how they have to be careful about how and what they do in the game so not to reveal combat strategies, etc.
Didn't Gonky teach some things to the Malaysian air force? Come on Gonky, spill the beans 😁.
yes but betting he had permission of the state department. Its not hard permission to get when you going to allied countries
Just the open source info in Wiki is pretty damning of Duggan. He can rot in prison.
@2:25 "unless you're in political office". Hahahahahaha. So sad but so true. And the "things my wife never said' also cracked me up. Wombat is en fuego today
Also, @4:40 If he actually sold/spilled secrets, lock him up. But ANY MSM is a clown $hit show. 100% on team Gonky.
And Gonky's 'I disinvite you" is 100% spot on. BEST. SHOW. EVER
I've done carrier landings on Boeing's mobile F-18 simulator at airshows before, and the Boeing guys let anyone do it, even the asian kids.
We may know everything 60 minutes Australia knows, what else does the US know though... I'm guessing we'll find out soon enough.
does a harrier even have a arrestor hook? geez
Nothing about the F-35 crash in New Mexico the other day?????????
The show airs every Monday night live. If it happened after that, it’ll have to wait until the next show.
If he flew Harriers, he had to have been stationed at one time at MCAS Cherry Point.
This is the Australian equivalent of blowing up Nordstream. Two Aussies imprisoned indefinitely in the US Imperial Provinces pending a US extradition case...
wtf is up with Movers mic this episode? plz tell me he didn't censor himself?
Bigger story.. about all the Chinese nationals going to USA Colleges. Getting Aerospace engineering degrees.
It's far less of an issue because an engineering degree doesn't give one access to confidential or classified information. Also, you can get an engineering degree at a good European university.
@@helifanodobezanozi7689 It's not what you learn, it's who you meet...
@@AndyRRR0791 Soooo, you wouldn't meet people who are as equally important to the US (or our MANY allies) while attending an overseas university?
I researched hypersonics few years ago wondering why USA was behind, when they usually are ahead. found good info even Australia is one of most advanced in hypersonics that no one speaks of.
Anyway a Chinese guy is building a hypersonic aeroplane and he worked at NASA and returned to China and took a abandoned NASA project with him and how is building it.
China claim of world fastest hypersonic wind tunnel is a stolen Australian Ray Stalker free piston shock tunnel design they claim they improved to make it world fastest.
Australian's have world fastest scramjet at mach 12 and Ray Stalker Aussie is recorded as first to get essence of flight from scramjets.
All these Aussies teach space and aeronautics at Queensland university where Chinese are one of Australia biggest trades.
Yes we teach them it all in our universities. computer programming. cyber security, engineering.
Australia, USA and UK have the highest levels of University rating in the world and we teach them everything.
Ray Stalker tubes the hypersonic wind tunnel is at Universities in Australia students use to study technology lol.. Chinese students used these lol.
How many chicom pilots has L3Harris trained over the decades?
_60 Minutes Australia's_ post production must not understand that Harriers do not land on this [2:52] type of carrier. Was this Chinese *Su Bin* character (that was reportedly convicted for hacking) really Daniel Duggan's former business partner, _and_ did Duggan literally renounce his US citizenship while living in Beijing before returning to Australia?
This whole story makes my brain hurt
Bunch of my buddies went and taught the Saudi's privately when they got out and made a fortune. It was well known career path after getting out of the RCAF. You could put on a decent training program with all the unclass stuff out there.
firstly Canada doesn't have any law preventing them doing so, same as the australian and UK pilots who did it. Note both AUS and UK bought in legislation to prevent their pilots doing this in the future. Also KSA is a an ally and its not difficult to get permission from the state department for american pilots to do training. Just like gronly when he was in Malaysia flying with them
Now you you have to get a "Harrier guy" on the show.
Why would they call it "secret intel" and then tell everyone what that intel was? 🙃
based Gonky
The video just seems to be too vague to draw any kind of conclusions. I need to know 1) Exactly what information this man conveyed. 2) Was it labeled by the DOD as classified information? 3) who exactly did he tell that to? 4) Were they either representatives of, or directly connected to, the Chinese government? 5) What was his intent and purpose in passing this information on?
If the United States government does intend to prosecute the man, they need to present this information to a grand jury per the terms of the fifth amendment in order to obtain an indictment against him. Again, by the terms of the fifth amendment, you cannot deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law. We need to remember that and act accordingly.
Live in SA, tried to comment twice, both deleted within minutes. sad
Doesn't that make him a flying tiger?
Yep, we ain't the land of freedum XD
I doubt very much that the US government would go after someone to the extent that they are if there was not something to it. I doubt this guy is innocent, he gave up his US citizenship, who does that? Especially a Marine. There is a reason he did, likely to avoid extradition of an Australian citizen rather than as an American citizen. I hope we find out the full extent of what he is accused of and why. If there is one thing I hate more than anything, it's a traitor.
Hello! Eddie Gallagher?
The company you keep says a lot about your intentions. Su Bin. None of us know all the details. If he was part of compromising US security than that speaks for itself. All for $$$. He loved the US so much that he renounced his citizenship when it was unnecessary to do so.
Emotional appeals won’t save the lives lost if he did betray the trust.
With six kids , just goes to show that their is nothing worth watching on Australian Televisdion
Maybe he was giving them VTOL Info for a new Chinese VTOL Jet
Duggan did live in China between 2005 to 2014. Important stuff happened during those years in view of China's carrier aviation history.
For instance, China had just acquired the Kiev from Russia in 2002. China had just started playing with carrier ops and was probably very interested to know anything about how the US operated it's aviation. The Kiev would become China's first operational aircraft carrier, refitted and renamed the Liaoning. China had acquired one WWII carrier, and two Soviet carriers which got renovated to become theme parks.
What if Duggan was quite incapable of properly training carrier landings, not having the applicable experience, but the money on offer was really sweet so he decided to fake it since there was no need to really "make it". He could have looked really credible because he was actually a trained fighter pilot. He'd have totally looked like hot shit to civilians amped up on Top Gun. He could have easily drawn the attention of the Chinese Air Force even if he was "only" a Harrier pilot.
Duggan could have chosen to be unethical on both fronts: to reveal military secrets to China, while actually being knowingly incompetent. It's kind of a hilarious way to be a jackass while making bank.
From America's standpoint he is sharing his training which is an offense. From China's standpoint, he could have been way more credible back in the day when DCS didn't yet exist. Way back in 2005, Duggan could have looked like a really good source given that China had only one operational carrier acquired from Russia named the Kiev in 2002. China could have been so ignorant in carrier operations that Duggan was a relative expert. From Duggan's perspective he didn't feel that he wasn't sharing anything sensitive because he knew he wasn't actually a carrier pilot.
Now in 2024 Duggan doesn't look like a credible carrier landing instructor. He looks like a goof, but to the Chinese, in 2010, he might have been the best that they could when they were more desperate to figure things out. They were pressured to start figuring things out because they were planning to lay the keel for their first indigenous carrier, Shandong, in 2013.
When one is desperate for information they will pay for many sources. Including sources which aren't ideal.
I sense that Duggan was probably a crap instructor for carrier landings, but he was the best that the Chinese could get at the time, right when they were looking to get into the carrier game. Duggan had probably talked to more actual US carrier pilots than China could find on Google so even as a 2nd hand source he was useful.
In this context, I can see the US government deciding to make a stern warning out of Duggan to the myriad of pilots that the US trains: don't even think of thinking about training THE ENEMY. It is political, but only because Duggan is incompetent. If Duggan was competent then it would be clear that he was in violation, but maybe competence isn't really the point.
The message is: Don't even think of sharing your training, of any kind, to non ITAR states. Even if you are incompetent.
Their first aircraft carrier wasn't the Kiev, it was the Varyag, the one they dragged around Africa.
@@ivantheteribul I got the names mixed up. The Varyag became the Liaoning, not the Kiev. The Kiev became a theme park.
I think I got the years right though.
China makes their first carrier landings on the Liaoning in late 2012, not long after Duggan started living in China in 2010. Just before in 2011, China starts practicing deck operations on a land emplaced built concrete carrier deck.
I think the timing of events does allow for the possibility that Duggan provided training assistance to China during his residency in China. The timing of events isn't proof though.
Maybe the contents of the communications from Su Bin provide the evidence that the US Gov is reasonably acting on.
The dates are just about exact.
Hasn't DCS in Chinese servers already taught them how to land on aircraft carriers anyway?
nah they allready did with Battlefield 3
Seems like this guy is being railroaded. Like the guys said, if he'd gone to China that would have been one thing, but working at a flight school in South Africa is another. He didn't even own the flight school as far as we know, he just worked there.
he also worked in mainland china, When he renounced his american citizenship he did it at the american embassy in bejing
@@richardthomson4693 Ok, that wasn't mentioned, thanks. Might be something too this then.
maybe he was doing the Master Tang method of "We Purposely Trained (them) wrong.. as a joke" ?
Oh Hell! Wombat right on the money!!! 🤣
The CCP may not have a VTOL aircraft now, but that doesn't mean they aren't in the process of developing one. Also, there IS a process in place for determining what happened. It's called a trial.....
6 kids??? Geez this guy has been doing way too many live-fire exercises in conjunction with Australian forces clearly 😉
What could he possibly teach about landing a conventional navy aircraft aboard a super carrier without a conventional navy aircraft or a super carrier? I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the former U.S. Marine. Much of our own government are much bigger traitors. Also, true about DCS teaching more anyway.
If he broke nda rules then charge him thusly. But if it is being conflated beyond that. Maybe not so cool at all. I think that is about it. If I speed and hit pulled over fora speed ing ticket. Give me the citation.But don’t use that stop to further investigate my self beyond that, etc.
Where’s the evidence?
I posted a link to his indictment, read it.
So this guy was flying a BAC Strikemaster in South Africa on the land allegedly teaching some Chinese pilots how to land on a carrier, lol...
it was a t-2 buckeye as well, also some of his charges might be from this aircraft as it was illegally exported from SA to china in breech of ITARS
Oh boy
I am with team Gonky, 60 min is a Clown Show.
try carolina reaper
Hmmm.
So I am a professional with a non-transferable set of qualifications to the real world. Fighter Pilot.
I get an opportunity to teach the fun part to anyone at a flying school in another country.
Someone offers me a huge amount of money to do the same thing but that someone is not one of US - I am a traitor.
Even though the practical fun bit is something ANYONE can learn from various flight schools in the US and Britain;
John Boyd (Fighter Mafia) who DID write the book about modern fighter tactics - his report is unclassified and freely
downloadable from the internet.
NATOPS is unclassified and freely downloadable from the internet.
If I approach the pension department of the US Military and say someone offered me a huge amount of money to do
this so will you pay me the same amount to NOT do this? The cheque will be in the mail tomorrow?
Gonky - all I can say is that it is a good thing that Malaysia is one of US or you would be in huge trouble.
I am also sure that fighter tactics in aircraft from the 1950s and 1960s is very up to date and useful to today's modern
fighter operations.
BTW if you have the money ANYONE can sign up to the Empire Test Pilots School in Britain and they will teach you how
to be a Test Pilot, that includes everything you would practically need to know on how to take any aircraft to the edge of
the envelope - very useful when creating and modifying tactics.
Didn’t this guy renounce his citizenship in Beijing?
In Australia.
@@edwhlamNo, at the embassy in Beijing.
@@edwhlam oh right. I read that he moved his family to China for 6 years
@@kmrtnsn Renunciation is a lengthly bureaucratic process. I think he started the process in Australia, and make have met at the US embassy in Beijing if he was working there at the time.
He tried in Australia but wasn't given Australian citizenship.
Did you mean Australia is NOT EXACTLY the land of freedom.....really???
I thought I heard that too. Strange. Oh dear the US is selling Nuc subs to commie Aus the land of the unfree. 😂
Only one side of the story allowed, not the truth
“When I was flying on the carrier we used to say ‘Any landing you walk away from is a good landing’”
OMG YOU GAVE THE CHINESE OUR SECRETS!!!!
Note to self; If I ever find myself teaching someone carrier landings, do so for the Midway class.. Watch the alphabet soup guys twitch...
One thing I found interesting is that Duggan didn't become a resident of Australia or even a dual citizen, he gave up his US citizenship.
This video skipped over a lot of details. I guess that's what the trial will be for.
All the Chinese, and everyone else, need to do is watch footage right here on youtube taken from in cockpit cameras.
What about him and his whole family moving to China??!!! WTF
So a Harrier pilot taught Chinese pilots how to land on a carrier, without an actual carrier in South Africa, over 10 years ago? I know more about landing on a carrier by watching DCS videos on TH-cam than he would have been able to teach Chinese pilots flying Cessna's in South Africa. I don't think we're getting the whole story here.
Maybe read the indictment…….
Once a marine always a marine!! Even if you rennounce your US Citizenship
Piss on him, he just played a Marine.
What, he hit someone in the head with a boomerang or something?😂
I look at the list of DCS multiplayer servers with hundreds of them in Chinese, and have to laugh.
Follow the $$$$, he's got 8 mouths to feed
didn't mean to offend anyone, but if you offended, its your problem
I love Wombat; he brings great insight and beautiful rants to the channel. However, the shizat going on with China is not some political BS. The Chinese will tell you the tension between them and the US and our Pacific allies is because of bad behavior by the US, Australia, and the Philippines. Anyone with half a brain knows the source of the problems between the two sides is the result of frequent dangerous and provocative behavior by China over the years. Yet, maybe I don’t understand what Wombat was trying to say at the end of the discussion.
Team Gonky. 60 Minutes is nonsense propaganda.
margo robbie is a russian 4 per cousin andy
Has to be more to it Maaaaaate .......
12yrs later? WTF is that all about and as the panel stated, what could he have done to justify going after him 12yrs later, let alone being a harrier pilot, WTF! Our government is so out of control!
Yep, im a former marine too lol. Things my wife will never day about me lmao.
12 years ago is when he met his Chinese partner, since arrested in the U.S.
Aviators objectivity females ????? surely not lol
Well… I don’t know if he got a Margot Robbie, just sayin.
"He's not exactly living in the land of freedom". The fact he lives in Australia has nothing to do with how the US decided to prosecute him. Plus Australia ranks higher on every freedom index than the US anyway and we have Margot Robbie so cope with that.
I smell a big pile of BS
This reeks of upper deck BS.. REEKS..
Mover, did you make the title of this video "Ex Marine Fighter Pilot"? Shame on you!
Nope. Gonky runs the show here. He does all the thumbnails, titles, and uploads. I just comment every now and then. -Mover
First
🏆
So special.
Whole thing stinks of a stitch up.