Not exactly important to know, but I'll still point out: if your Sage is running next to you between packs spamming E.Diagnosis, they're not bored or goofing, it's just fishing for the crit shield! It's a natural SGE behavior and indicates they are happy and content, like a cat curling it's tail, no need to worry.
I was told by many i am nothing but a green DPS. Unless people are under 20% i shouldn't be healing as a white mage. I... Completely disagreed with this mentality. If they hit 30% it's because either multiple people stood in the spill deadly Orange juice and it blitzed them while i was healing, They actived a move that drains hp. Or they ran out of range/around a corner while i was casting. Really the only times. I Dps between keeping the party alive until the last 1/5th of the mobs health. heals first then Comes DPS. Make sure your healer is like your backpack. behind you and secured in place.
@@CaetsuChaijiChthis hahahaha. As a white mage, I’m sad that there aren’t more mechanics that require me to use the lilies. I hate the feeling of just dumping them when running.
I feel that way about the Sage Balls too, at least we get mp for those, but something like Sch Energy Drain would be nice to feel like I'm not wasting Lilies/Adders.
@@koshi-dono I had 1 run where a healer died from trash aoes (probably because they either couldn't see or busy spamming their aoe). They died when we still had a nearly full, if not full, wall-to-wall pack. Careful management of cd with a last second holmgang. I laughed in the face of danger as bloodwhetting came off cd just as holmgang was about to drop off, went from 1 to full in a single hit. By the time they ran back, the pack was nearly dead.
being a tank main, the number 1 thing ive learned is to just trust the healer to do their job. especially in dungeons. just do your mit rotation and if it looks like youre gonna die, pop invuln. worst case you wipe to mobs, and then its just a learning experience for the healer. the only way to know your limits is to test them (or have someone test them for you lol) obviously different in higher tier content.
Idk I've learned to not trust the healers I keep getting ones that aren't good at their job and im a slow tank because I keep getting healers that seem to be unable to keep up especially after a "Just trust me bro"
@TetsuRiken in those instances you just gotta take advantage of the fact that you are the defacto "leader" of the party as the tank. a quick bit of communication with your healer can turn these situations around. they may be used to running with a tank they know so they just can't anticipate your actions. sometimes you have to adjust the amount you're pulling, or checking in with yourself that you're using absolutely every tool you have available to you. sometimes, I've honestly just given them a hearty pat on the back, a "you can do it!" and that bit of confidence boost can give them a proverbial level up.
@corwinchapman8270 Indeed, my typical approach to dungeons is to pull like I normally do. And if things go wrong because I pulled more than the healer can take, I just take the blame. Often, I have found the healers step up and want to try again after that! 😊
"You don't have to be scared of it. It just heals you." are the most reassuring words ive ever heard, as a newbie tank that gets jumpscared by any line that points at me, i definitely would have been like "uhhh i dont know this fight mechanic"
One note about sages, they can gain more toxicon charges by breaking an aoe/single target shield placed on themselves so they might pull ahead or intentionally stand in an aoe to force an additional stack and gain more damage. Pneuma is also often used as a damage option on trash whenever it's up so I wouldn't count on it for healing.
Both of those tricks make sense, and used smartly is a damage gain. However, I have honestly never seen a sage do either of those things! That doesn't mean sages won't do that, but more to say that they are the outliers rather than the norm, hence why I think expecting pneuma to be used for healing as a default makes sense! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Pneuma in dungeons runs *should* be used as close to on CD as possible. Damage wise it's a Toxicon with better reach, so using it on trash pulls is pretty common for most Sage mains (if it's an alt job for the player, they may not be thinking about it as a damage tool), then during bosses it's an easy heal without losing damage. In a random expert roulette it's not uncommon to get 7 or so uses out of it. So it really depends on how comfortable the player is with the rest of the kit
@@CaetsuChaijiCh some do that but I wouldn't do it deliberately in an alliance raid for instance, where AoEs can kill instantly. sometimes I throw the shields at the main tank and not my team's tank. anything to get that shield broken XD
I just tell people when tanking or healing. It's like a game of tag of war with your counterpart, but the goal isn't who can pull the other over. It's about keeping the rope marker in the middle. A tank and healer in sync with each other is a beautiful thing.
My most vivid memory of playing AST was in the last SB story dungeon (level 69) with a PLD tank I was vaguely acquainted with. Quickly noticed that they would start to use clemency when they hit 60% health. After the dungeon, the PLD chewed me out for not spamming benefic 1 to fish for benefic 2 procs during the trash pulls. I was so baffled, but I didn't argue since a friend continually sang the praises about how amazing this tank was and I didn't feel like making a big deal about it. I still remember that run every once and a while and all I can think is "but why??".
Proof of why we need videos like this. Even the best tank might have no idea how a healer actually works. It sounds like they're considered an "amazing" tank by virtue of not dying. For most people, not dying is kinda the baseline and how good you are depends on how much damage you do while not dying. Spamming Clemency will keep them alive, but it also makes the fight take longer and thus require more resources anyway.
I had someone once tell me that "warning healers isn't necessary any good healer knows when an invuln is up" and I feel like that's an incredibly toxic position to take. Sometimes shit on screen gets chaotic and you don't have time to stare lovingly at the buff list so warn your goddamn healers please, it takes 2 seconds to turn an invuln into a party chat macro with a sound effect and it saves both you and the healer time and panic thank you for coming to my TED talk
Not only that, but a lot of players don't even know what the buff icon for the invuln is! It's obvious when you have the action yourself of course, but not all healers have even leveled a tank 😅 As you say, it takes so little to give the warning!
Ngl i really enjoy the partnership with my healers and have a great time putting my life in their hands ❤ Also playing a tank has made me give zero effs about wiping. We just adjust and go again. Plus as a drk I'm not scared of dying...i do it on purpose at least once per dungeon lol
I think as a community, we should be more okay with wipes. if we were used to wiping more often in regular content, I think it would make trying to do ex or savage in pf less gruelling. fewer people would get discouraged by an early wipe and stay longer.
I noticed that a DRK tank is a joy to work with as a WHM as they are just so darn hard to kill and as a pure healer, Living dead isn't a concern as I know I have the heals to knock it out.
@@rifleman2c997 Hard to kill? A DK? Uh no. Darks as squish. They have less mitigation options than every other tank. Pala and War are the ones healers can legit turn their brain off while healing.
There is also a slight funny aspect to ARR, Heavensward and Stormblood content in that mobs and boss auto-attacks can crit. This is something removed from the game in Shadowbringers content onwards. It can produce sudden spikes in damage when the tank suddenly gets a chain of crits, especially noticeable on paladin because crits are unblockable. Combined with the lack of OGCs for healers in lower level content, can make for some very sudden moments the tank takes spike damage at completely random intervals. Usually a consistent healer will not have a problem with this, but a lazy or risk for more damage healer can make random tank death far more likely.
A borderline suicidal but somewhat noteworthy thing you'll occasionally see with particularly headstrong White Mages is them intentionally pulling a single mob off of you- they might be fishing for a few Liturgy of the Bell procs. Every time that healer gets poked by the annoying imp or jellyfish, the entire team (including the tank) gets a 400 potency heal- after 5 GCDs, it's like 2000 free heal potency. Rarely needed, but it's a fun thing myself and a few Free Company people do.
Another great video! I feel like this is important to watch even if you're not a tank. I can't tell you how many people do NOT give me the courtesy of stepping into my bubble :c They made the WHM one nice and big now but the AST dome is still pretty small and people NEVER step in
Thats just when you yoink them in with rescue tbh 😂 sometimes people just dont know whats going on esp in alliance raids. If they complain you just say you misclicked 🤫😉
This video came at a hysterical time. I came out if a roulette in solm al where a tank complained i wasnt healing enough as whm. I kept them around 1/3rd, used primarily benediction as the heal bc no lily dps refund. They kept doing wall pulls, never died, and kept fearfully running around outside of my giant asylum. We both had up to date SAVAGE gear, and i thought we were vibing with advanced big pulls. They ask me to heal them more, i say its okay bene is off cooldown. They still never die.... And for the rest of the dungeon they start using tank lb1 on mob pulls
I will be brutally honest to you. I see WHM that do what you do get kicked from groups if they don't listen and 'heal more'. Benediction often doesn't land when it should due to input lag/server lag, and the inherent time delay before the instant and when the effect itself goes off. I do not know a single tank that enjoys playing alongside WHM mains, because WHM lets their health sit far too low way too often.
@@crowdemon_archives If I see a WHM consistently letting me drop below half, I pop superbolide on pulls REGULARLY. This usually freaks out the healer enough they stop playing chicken with my health and the time for the party. You respect my time? I pull safe and fast. You try and ec out every last bit of your kit for all of 2% more efficiency over the course of a dungeon? Nope. I will pull slower, pop bolide, I will drive you insane on purpose. If a tank's HP ever drops below 50% you failed your job as a healer. ESPECIALLY as WHM or AST. You can keep 2 regeneration spells up 24/7 on a tank at no mana cost due to the freebie casts you have during regen times.
Healer main here, and dear lord I loved this breakdown. It's fairly concise for a semi-deep dive, goes over the main difference between the main class roles, and just generally would be a tool I would share for all my friends who play infrequently and wouldn't remember all the details.
I'm a savage WAR tank and a SCH healer for funsies. As a warrior, I see: WHM = I'm gonna get low so keep my own cooldowns on point, AST = same as WHM but try not to pop my good stuff when their good stuff is also about to go out, SCH and SGE = happy tank noises, I'll be fine unless something goes horribly wrong and even then I'll still probably be fine if I'm in level 60 content or higher. (I've solo'd a LOT of stuff as a warrior lately.) As a SCH, I prefer a WAR tank because I know they're basically immortal and it's all the more AoW I'll be able to do, but the only tank I get frustrated with are "cooldowns are for bosses only" types. Tanks, dear dear tanks, IT'S THE OPPOSITE. Bosses don't need cooldowns nearly as much as a pack of 10 angry trash mobs wailing on you do.
As a SCH main, it never ceases to amaze me just how much a difference basic skill levels are when it comes to tanking, perhaps never more pronounced than watching a GNB blow through all your mit cooldowns and is still dying like he's half naked.
This was interesting to watch too, *as* the healer main. Something to note about the healers for DKN, is that we often go through "pre-pull" healing setups, where we setup powerful GCD heals out of combat when they're not damage losses and/or powerful oGCD heals to get them on cooldown quicker and more often, so that we can delay how long into the pull we actually need to start healing. The exact prepull we can do will depend on the level cap, and I believe you loosely talked about it, but here's what I do as each healer at 90: AST- neutral sect + aspected benefic + intersection (big shield + regen, puts a large buffer on the tanks health) -> earthly star where the tank will stop, or macrocosmos if earthly is somehow on CD (powerful *delayed* heals with damage tied to them) WHM- regen + benison (strong regen + a shield) -> temperance if i have it, + either liturgy (big delayed heal with a varying amount of potency) or asylum (big regen). A small amount of the liturgy or asylum will go to "waste" because of the holy stuns, however they outlast the stun duration, and help stem the "all the mobs are autoing me in sync" damage. Usually by the time those expire, you've now got a lilly to work with SCH- protraction + fey + recitation + swift + adloquium, + excog if i have an aetherflow. Self explanatory, big fucking shield, the swift is bc I do it while running between pulls and out of combat, but juuust before the tank starts pulling so it actually gets eaten by the trash. Soil too if i have the aetherflow. Excog lasts 45s so it'll pop long after the shield is eaten and the soil expires, this setup *drastically* extends how long a SCH can deal damage for before needing to think about healing their tank SGE- zoe + eukrasian prognosis is all I use prepull tbh, SGE is its own busted one man swiss army knife mitigation plan in trash pulls. *This matters when planning your cd uses as a tank*. Here's the thing, I know how living dead works. If I don't know which pulls you're going to LD, especially if I haven't seen you use it yet all dungeon, I'm going to keep doing my prepull rituals. Your LD macro isn't going to make a difference if you use it mid pull after I've already primed an earthly star or macrocosmos or thrown out a liturgy. I see a lot of DKN complain about healers not letting their LD go off, but at the same time, as the healer, I see DKN using it at some of the worst times too. Best example is I'm just sitting there as a WHM blasting my holy stuns, or I've placed the prepull excog on them. At that point, it's as much the tanks responsibility for not knowing their healers abilities as it the healers responsibility to know what their tanks can do. Conversely, if I know *before* we start pulling (I ask, or the tank says well in advance), I can plan a different cooldown plan around what the tank wants to do for that pull. For example I had a Dead Ends the other day where the tank said something like "Ld on second and final pulls". I was on SGE, so what I did in response was actually move kardia *off* the DKN before those pulls, and didn't setup anything until well into the pulls until after the tank invulned. The DKN was easily able to get both LD off, and it was one of the smoothest Dead Ends I've ever had
A lot of great points indeed! Personally, if I am playing DRK and I plan to use Living Dead for a pull, having some extra setup from the healer beforehand isn't going to get much in the way, since I will simply use Living Dead later! I think the big concern is more if the healer starts to continue healing once Living Dead has been activated, or if the healer chooses to run themselves ragged trying to keep you topped when you are clearly waiting to use Living Dead! This is not to say this advice is bad, in fact, it is great!
As a tank i learned to sometimes go in raw when it comes to pulling with a WHM, they like to spam holy then heal you up in between it, so if you pop a strong mitigation right as your going into the end of the pull then more times than not the WHM is going to immediately stun everything and all that time being mitigated is going to be wasted on a long pause period of nothing hitting you, so when your WHM is prone to doing that, go in with weak or low cooldown skills then after they holy'd the enemies enough to where they are immune to stunning then pop your stronger ones.
it's why i like to pop divine benison on tanks before they sit down to burn the trash, gives them some early mit as i go to swift holy into PoM holy spam
As a WHM main I also use the wings spell at the start of the first and 3rd full pulls as it gives mitigation to everyone when nearby, the game seems to be built around 2 big pulls before boss then another 2 big pulls before another boss, using those big high level spells with long cooldown fits perfectly and usually finishes its cooldown before the boss room.
This is very true, and I usually try to focus on this particular observation when giving cooldown advice (especially for tanks and healers!) so that is a good practice!
I may not use it on bosses in dungeons - odds are pretty good the tank won't drop to the point where it will even trigger, even with a tankbuster in there, unless something has gone HORRIBLY wrong. And that's an aetherflow stack I can use for damage instead. But on trash pulls? Heck yeah, Excog is a perma buff on my tank. It just means more ground slapping.
Glad that it was mentioned that, while Scholar doesn't need to give up its pet healing to use its GCD heals, Sage loses Kardia any time it needs to GCD heal
I think one thing that tanks should know with barriers is that your mit greatly increases the the value of barriers. So dont wait for your health to go down to mit do it immediately once you stop to dps the mobs
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Yeah, should always have some sort of migration up, PLD at least has a proper cycle with them so theres always something up. But theres one tiny adjustment to make: In dungeons, if your healer is a WHM, delay starting that migration cycle by like 6 seconds so the first two holy stuns dont get wasted.
Actually it doesn't matter if you're mitigating damage done to your shield or your health. Barrier is just your health, effectively (if anything it's slightly *worse* to mitigate barriers, because they can theoretically expire unlike your health). It makes no sense to pop defensives to make barriers last longer. It's far more important to mitigate bursts of damage. Now using mitigation only when you go low is a noob signal, because it's what makes sense to do from an instinctual standpoint. But what you should be doing is pop your defensives before you know you will take a lot of damage (which prevents you from going super low in the first place). But this part requires experience as a tank and with the mobs/bosses you're dealing with, of course.
@@GameGod77 Nobody cares about freecure, we use Cure 1 sometimes if we are afraid that cure 2 isn't gonna make it in time because it casts slower. If dps has lost half hp then cure 1 will probably top him off and you have tiny bit more time to dps. But dps taking damage often means they are not going to stop taking damage so time is on the essence and regen wouldn't save them. That's especially in crystal tower raids in couple places when tanks aren't doing their job. On the record i've had cases where even Cure 1 didn't cast in time.
@@seonteeaika Preach! I spend most of my time in the Crystal tower raids Rezzing DPS and Healers in OTHER groups. I've had more then a few tanks forget to slap their Emnity effect on and it's led to issues. Though DPs dancing in AOE's is also a close second. Trying to avoid AOEs ourselves while doing heals and Damage is why so many people refuse to play healers now days on my server. They get stressed out. Having played healers in over a half dozen MMO's this is a unique issue with FF14's Culture.
I don't mind white mages letting my health get low before a bene, but please keep in mind that if you let it get TOO low, I could conceivably get killed in the time it takes for your button press to register in the game's netcode. Seen that happen too often lol
One small tip to also go by; NEVER trust your healer in any capacity when you play a tank, always have your own heals ready and or potions for emergency heal. (this also applies to friends who need sleep lol) as a long time player i can say that with certain.... just because your HP is nearly down with a whm fopr examble never expect em to actually pop a benediction lol especially if you play with randoms, try a regular pull to pull to see how well the healer does. and also how fast the enemies die.
A little DRK advice, don't pop TBN immediately when you've pulled all packs to wall if the healer is WHM. The stuns might not allow the TBN to proc from the Holy spam. Pop your rampart/shadow wall first when you get low use Abyssal Drain early. After the second holy's stun, your TBN will start proccing again. It's a good habit to use Drain early/first anyway due to the low cooldown. Also, if you're feeling squishy or out of mitigation, remember that arm's length paired with reprisal or oblation is really strong against trash. Since practically 99% of their DMG is auto attacks unless you don't dodge aoes or very occasionally interrupt or stun some attacks.
Hearing how each kind of healer works helps me understand why I gravitate towards scholar more overall than Astro. I like both, but scholar feels a lot more stable to me, and also plays to my tendencies as a healer as well. I also find it hard and uncomfortable to anticipate damage spikes a lot of the time, I've been trying to keep an eye on what mitigations the tank is using to see if that helps me, but so far things are inconclusive. Scholar does requires a lot more brain power for me to play though, so I can definitely see the "doesn't handle surprises as easily". I think at peak performance I'm better on Scholar than Astro, but Astro is the safer choice for me to play if I'm tired and just want to do some story or roulettes. Though there is no glee like the fat shields I can put on people, maybe that's what really makes scholar the winner in my heart.
Sometimes it's one kind of silly thing that makes it work! Personally I always played Scholar before sage came around, and what made me like sage even more was... Genuinely... That my favored ability sacred soil was even easier to use on sage as kerachole! Obviously other things stand out as well, but that was the initial turning point!😂
As a sage please don't grab the whole dungeon unless I'm ready, or run too far ahead of me, I cannot heal from across the map... I don't have many nuke healing options, so I have to be protactive in preventing the damage instead. Be kind to your local barrier healers
Also, SCH’s Adlo is a GCD cast! If you can wait the 3 seconds before pulling it takes to apply it, then the SCH won’t accidentally pull aggro or fall behind in the pull. I find I have to Swiftcast my adlos in Expert content because folks can’t be bothered to stop for a couple seconds to save many more.
That's true. Personally I don't find I need that swiftcast for anything else, so I tend to just recommend defaulting to swiftcast adlo myself 😊 but yeah if you had the extra seconds you could save that!
I just started to give them protraction and excogitation while running, then a sacred soil at the end of the pull. I only use Adlo during pulls when they get excog to pop. So far the tactic worked fine. Some tanks get a bit nervous though because they are in a party with a shield healer and don't have any shields on them at the beginning.
@@Nempo13 thats the issue with that tactic, since I put Excog on them while running instead of adlo, I let them fall below 50% for it to pop on purpose. Not having any gcd barrier cast on them during the pull tends to make them nervous. What I found however was that passive healing from the tanks themselves combined with fairy and sacred soil is enough to keep them afloat most of the time. They only need an Adlo maybe 20-30 seconds in after sacred soil wears off.
Basically, it's nice to play a bit a everything, so we can understand how healing works from a tank's pov, and same in reverse. One thing I should add is : Trust your WHM, and don't use your panic button "invu" if you didn't see the benediction pop. Nothing worse as a WHM to click on bene, then see the tank use invu 0.5s later, cause he was scared, and go back to 1hp.
As a healer i know why they do it.. but I just don't do it to people. I don't want to scare the shit out of a tank in a random unimportant dungeon just for the sake of uptime. It's silly. Just keep 'm nice and topped up...or at the very least above 50%. The difference is neglegable in random roulettes or you're running with random people. I did some tests with this and it really didn't make much of a difference at all. It made a difference when we ran it with a group of the same good people that knew how to run their classes... which in roulettes is rare. And the average tank really doesn't like this low hp stuff.. mostly because they don't know.
I do agree, and when I'm playing healer, I usually don't let the tank drop too far down either, exactly because it can have the effect that the tank starts playing unpredictably because they don't trust me 😅 this indirectly makes it suboptimal to greed too hard with this!
@@CaetsuChaijiChAt the same time; especially when running Unreal's the healers seem to greed a little too much. They want to keep uptime high and my health is usually pretty low,... but then as a tank I know another tankbuster or raidwide is going to come soon. I've died plenty of times because of this. I ended up tankswapping with a tank buddy all the time just to avoid us dying. It gets silly.
Speaking of Scholar or Sage, especially lower levels I like to say "I can heal or I can panic but I cannot panic heal so try to avoid cases were you drop fast"
Chain strategem somtimes... lol. as SCH is my main healer, i can confirm that i also use chain strategem somtimes. in fact, its CD is actually 2-3x longer than whats written on it. 🤣
I main sage. My dungeon plan is normally preshield before a pull > haima at the start while dpsing, when it expires you pop soteria (increased kardia healing) and keep dpsing, then when that expires you taurochole and keep dpsing
Sage's kit usage is very dependant on the content. At high levels I prefer pairing krasis and physis for a much thicker shield as a tank hits the last pack in a pull so I can start going AoE heavy while weaving kerachole and occasionally haima/panhaima in larger/more damaging pulls. In lower content soteria sees more use purely because you can't get thick shields as easily (sometimes only having occasional AoE as spam AoE is lvl 44)
For WHM, it's always worth clipping your GCD after Holy to use Assize. And I didn't see mention of the concept of dumping lily's between mob pulls for damage. I usually throw down a bubble for one pack, and use temperance for another. Most tools designed to mitigate aoe damage are always worth using for pulls since boss damage is a joke. (think Haima and Panhaima which both are useful for mobs)
I'm currently informing myself to start my first character as a healer! As a Monster Hunter Veteran, I noticed something specifically, DPS on all cost. Even if you're supporter or tank, in the end, DPS matters. In the end everyone want to spend less time doing an instant/raids what so ever, aslong everyone is alive, then the job has been done well. Great insight to the perspective of the tank and I'll try to keep them in mind! :)
Tbh when i have a WHM Healer or two WHM Healer in casual content, i expect to be always on the blink of death because no one will interrupt their Glare "Rotation"
They don't really have to, they've got buttons that dont require them to stop glaring. The real reason is probably as the video explains; efficiency. Benediction gets more value if you're low health, etc.
As a WHM, I do that because I don't know all the tank mits by heart (and especially not their cooldown time). Keeping the tank at about 40% is actually pretty safe if people are geared, gives the tank the chance to make use of anything that heals them, makes sure I'm not wasting any Regen effects, and if my Lily/Tetra crits, it'll heal about that much. The fact that it scares some less experienced tanks into using their mit at all is a bonus.
@@JayAshkevron Sure i know but i also have some _very_ bad experience with WHM.. like let you die in lvl 50 alliance raids where all Tanks still need healing to stay alive when they are MT (yeah even Warrior) or WHM that let me die (tbh the dps was also very low) even if i rotate all my mitigation etc. Tbh its more a trust issue.. some of the best healer i meet was WHM but also... "Please for the love of god play some DPS.. a Whitemage is a _Healer_ not a one button dps!"
@@kohlicoide2258 I believe that's caused by WHM being accessible since the other healers require 30 levels of ARC, Heavensward, or a level 70 job. They're disproportionately newbish. Kinda like how DRG got a reputation for being floor tanks because new players think it looks cool.
Huh... so I guess this explains why I encounter more wipes with other WHM/AST, some of ya'll are a little *too* cocky with the "don't worry I got this bro" last minute emergency healing, especially in lower level dungeons, lol.
As a Red Mage main, I'm watching EVERYTHING to make sure someone hasn't died unexpectedly or needs a quick extra hit of HP, all while doing my DPS rotation. When I tank I prefer WAR, because then I only need a Healer for the 17 seconds between Bloodwhetting wearing off and me being able to use it again, and for those times I have Equilibrium, Thrill of Battle, and Shake it Off to bridge the gap.
i feel like as a DRK main too many Healers see Living Dead get popped and when the Drk is at low Hp triggering Undead Rebirth and imediately hit the Oh shit Heal button you dont need to do that it makes the DRK lose thier Invuln early and with Endwalkers Release they made Undead Rebirth give 1500 cure potancy for Weapon Skills.
Undead rebirth is not the buff that heals you! Walking dead (the Grey hourglass) heals you. But once it becomes undead rebirth, you basically just have Holmgang, and since you're a dark knight, you don't have bloodwhetting, so if you drop low again after reaching undead rebirth, it's only the healer who will be dealing with that problem! 😅 However, I get what you meant, that healers have a tendency to react too soon to living dead, making it fail to function! 😊
As a low-level relatively new player, not to mention healer (All my time playing healer might add up to a day, with 70% spent playing white mage). I find some dungeon runs a breeze as Scholar, but it really depends on the Tank. Most wipes I had as a Scholar were thanks to tanks suddenly trying to do wall-to-wall pulls suddenly after the first boss, using sprint, and just running away without telling the group, when they first did two or three enemy group pulls. This frustrates me even more when it happens in Dungeons with a lot of corners and ups/downs with rocks or other things blocking vision. They just run to the wall, ignoring the Minimap, where it shows we can not keep up and I can not even heal the tank as he runs pulling mobs, thanks to the Corners and losing visions, so when I finally reach them, they have under 50% to 35% hp left. Mind you as it is in lower levels tanks do not have the Emergency button and as a scholar I have mostly slow regen-type heals, so I spam heals waste all my CDs, watch my tank die, and then we wipe to the huge group of mobs. As a white mage, I might have healed through it, but not as a Scholar. Maybe this is why I like Warriors more as tanks than Paladins, when playing scholars, as they can at least heal themselves in these pulls and do not rely on constant spam heals as Paladins do at lower level. Even more so since newer players like me do not know how to manage cooldowns right to take less damage as a tank. I know tanks suddenly doing wall-to-wall pulls means they trust me as a healer, but a heads up would be nice, so I know to activate sprint and follow to the invisible wall with you, and not get abandoned behind.
Yeah I get that! If the tank has been going slow and then suddenly flip to fast it would be nice with some sort of heads up! My best suggestion to try and do something in such situations is to use swiftcast to speed out an adloquium while running. Indeed, that will remove the option of raising the tank if they die, but then again, it might be a wipe if that happens anyway!
Use your swiftcast to put a shield on the tank when you catch up and then use your heal without the shield (it heals for more) in between shield applications. When their HP gets up drop a dome down down on them and it should work out for you. Shield healers require a different approach to things and remember that any heal that also applies a shield will heal for less than your heals that do not. So don't waste mana casting a 1k mana heal+shield over and over again as the barrier does not stack, you are over writing it. Cast that 400 mana heal in between the shield heals and you will see their health come back up much quicker. I normally save the aether charges for dome shields. Any tank that knows how to tank will stay inside your dome.
Try a shield on the tank like 1-4 seconds before the pull dies. You will have the mana back and they have a bigger hp pool. If your tank pops sprint wait for 3-ish seconds, or give them 15m headstart and press your own. Should help you get into the fight quickly. Heads up would obviously be nice but you gotta do what you gotta do. I always tell my team at the start of the dungeon that there WILL be running involved when I tank.
To be honest, it is hilariously silly how much a Scholar doesn't even really have to think about healing outside of dungeon bosses in dungeons like level 50 and below, I first tried Scholar with a Castrum run since it was already maxed thanks to Summoner leveling, and like, other than applying shields before pulls, I felt more like a DPS The scarier thing was the party saying they were shocked that was my first time playing healer due to how good I did my job
Only thoughts about healers as a warrior: White mage: Mald that Holy is a DPS loss for your Vengeance, Mald extra if the healer doesn't chain their Holy's back to back and you need to wait longer to press your button, potentially losing uptime as targets die before vengeance times out. Wish they were playing literally anything else. All other healers: Bloodwhetting is the only healer I need. B) Idgaf what the green DPS does with their time in the party.
i never want a white mage in my duty finder roulette's, atleast for dungeons. I don't need you and your stun actively harms me than anything else, granted i don't use vengeance till I need it for mitigation purposes, but wasting a bloodwhetting means that when the stun is finally over, i'm going to melt because mr white mage is basically wasting my resources. (granted, I just kite the enemy around so they have to move to me and buy me extra time for Bloodwhetting to return)
@@DarkDyllon Yeah, I think for me, especially for 90 content I've just found vengeance to be a bit redundant and I rarely need it, so I just slam it out aggressively about the time I use bloodwhetting if there's no white mage. Not the safest play, but I know I have the tools if things suddenly get spicy for w/e reason, and playing a healer a lot as well, I know in high level content, I'm just throwing CD's out to buffer or provide DR rather then because I actually need them. As a sage I can get through a whole dungeon without any CDs if I really need too, but its fun to use buttons, so. : ^) I do kind of hope dungeons are a bit tougher in Dawn trail, I know its supposed to be easy content, but it feels given the array of tools we have, the 80-90 bracket especially on a warrior is a bit silly, but also having 660 gear likely makes it even easier then it should be.
@@Zoltri yeah I get what you're saying, might throw vengeance in there aswell because why not. the difference in howmuch damage mobs do at the lvl 89 dungeon vs the lvl 90 dungeons is actually quite high, in the dead ends (i think, the lvl 89 dungeon) they actually hit enough that an healer can be seen as beneficial, even for a WAR using proper CDs, but everything after that is such a breeze, especially with max ilvl gear, even before that honestly, I honestly think the biggest issue is just simply how poorly they handle the ilvl sync, since even if you get synced down to max ilvl for that duty, you're far overgeared, generally at max ilvl for that raid tier and it feels completely off. either that or they need to adjust howmany packs there are, I honestly hope they kinda revert back to Stormblood dungeon design, where you can actually pull 3-5 packs and actually have to show some skill in order to survive, it's not the most difficult like savage or ultimate, but it's far harder than anything SHB or EW has thrown at us in terms of dungeon content. I remember the 1st time I went into the lvl 70 monk dungeon (1 of the 2 optional dungeons at the end of SB) as WHM and I was sweating to keep the tank alive (granted, tanks were way less powerful back then) It was honestly 1 of the best times I had playing the game, I wouldn't mind feeling like that again since the only times I feel anywhere remotely challenged is with Savage or Ultimate content, Extreme is a bit too easy for me at this point, but that's just my personal take, I know plenty of players who struggle with even Zeromus EX. I main tank (mostly WAR since why not) and most content is just kinda easy, with dungeons being completely braindead, it's also ridicilous that on WAR, an healer is completely optional and it's more beneficial to have a 3rd DPS rather than an healer.
@@DarkDyllonBut how can you see a WHM and open with bloodletting? Just delay it by 7 seconds. You know the Holy is comming. It's not that hard. Same with DRK. I have heard the complaint so often. Just....delay the skill. Or would you rather have the healer just do single target and loose out on a whole lot more dps?
@@yornam5391the weird thing with blood lilly in trash is it actually is a 5p damage gain per enemy on the falloff hits to just sit there and hit solace three times and then send the blood lilly. So you theoretically *can* sit there farming a blood lilly while your DKN LDs or your WAR uses their 30%, but the issue is that 1. you have no solace on the very first pull of the dungeon after that, and 2. farming blood Lilly's *out* of combat adds up to literal thousands of free potency over the course of a dungeon, so it's rare that you're going into a pull with a misery + full solace charges, unless you had a very very weird boss kill time where you decide to hold your blood lilly for trash if you say get the misery when the boss is at like 1% hp AND still have solace charges to boot when you kill. So yeah... just play around the holy lmao
Before I watch. The big thing for me is a tank and healer having a general idea of each other's kits and know how to use them to best support each other. Personally I prefer shield healers (especially when I play DRK) mostly because some tanks can have their mit rotation jumbled by WHM holy spam stunning things (DRK isn't taking damage for TBN or living dead) or thinking regen is enough (especially for non-WAR tanks that don't have the likes of raw intuition or bloodwhetting). AST is good if they can keep up with the chaos of healing and playing their cards as a good chunk of their ability heals also have shields attached. Most tanks have enough general self sustain that only a worst case scenario requires major healer intervention. Overall I agree with another comment; tank/healer synergy is a tug of war focused on keeping both sides equal in weight.
One other thing, sage's pneuma has a built in offensive line aoe that is a dps gain on their spammable aoe, so sages who know this tend to apprecoate a bit of a drop in hp early on before putting up their thick layer of mitigation.
“And while it is always a good idea to communicate when you intend to drop low to use an invulnerability, it is especially important with Barrier Healers. If they blow all of their resources trying to save you when it wasn’t needed, it can mean that they have nothing left for you once your invulnerability wears off.” THANK YOU. I can’t even begin to tell you how frustrating it is to express this exact sentiment as a Scholar and to just be told that maybe I shouldn’t be spending my resources at the start of an encounter or that I should have zero issues healing them back up to full after the Gunbreaker hits Superbolide after I used Excog, Recitation, and Sacred Soil, as if healing them is the problem and not the fact that my resources are gone for no reason and it could’ve easily been solved by the tank COMMUNICATING and just letting me know that they were going to do that.
Haha, yeah I've had this problem too! The worst part is the only thing you can do is hope that the reason they aren't using anything is because they will invuln, and thats a 50/50 bet, because the other 50% of the time, they aren't using anything, and then they die xD
The main core problem with living dead is that it expects a lot more of the healer, and even with a description, the healer might be too focused on your low hp to see what you said! 😅 It is quite problematic and you can only do so much in the moment.
As a WHM main I have a simple bene macro to signal when I use it, since I use it for extra uptime and not just when the tank gets low I remember when I was leveling AST, tanks would always yell at me for not healing enough despite the fact that Essential Dignity has 900 potency if you wait for their HP to drop below 30%. This was especially annoying with PLDs who use clemency at 50% HP Though now that tanks have so many ways to heal themselves I feel like there is much less friction with HP levels
@@fluffyfang4213 heals tgat only truly should be used when a person is super low that not something that should happen in a normal dung unless the tank is new
As a healer main, tanks for the love of god please understand that 3/4 healers DONT have a gap closer (and the one only has 1 charge on a 45 sec cd) and nothing about a healers kit will help you if you jump from one pack to the next and run away from your healer like you are running away from your problems. Here is to hoping that DT brings more gap closers to healers. Edit: I would also like to add that running away from you healer also has the added down fall of putting your healer on the back foot and force them to have to play catch-up with the damage going out rather than them staying ahead of it, forcing them to spend precious CD's at the beginning of the fight instead of at the mid or end of a fight. This can also have the added negative of possibly slowing down the run as take for example with a WHM: If a WHM is forced to spend the start of a fight on healing you up that means they arent spending that time on holy spams which are best used at the begining of the fight BEFORE you take lots of damage and it can be difficult to slip into holy spam mid fight and if their ogcd's are already burned that means they have to spend MORE gcd's on healing you. This means LESS dmg going out from the WHM therefore slowing down the run.
wait, some tanks *don't* try to constantly run away from you and you're *supposed* to do damage at the start of the fight instead of trying to catch up to them? Preposterous!
Eh, I disagree. If both tank and healer are competent, they will have sprint on sync, the healer will have regens or shields flowing, and the tank can pull and group the enemies ahead while the healer DOTs each enemy on the way to the wall. I prefer my tanks go as fast as they possibly are able to, using every single gapcloser they have to start grouping enemies ASAP. The tank will NOT be dying by the time you catch up to them, as they will have popped their CDs and will have their healing options available while you take the added 2-3 seconds to catch up.
More often than not, I as healer am the one that's ahead of the tank and half the time taking aggro of the next mob right before they do. This is no issue, if a tank actually is fast in a dungeon, my sprint is always ready for synced use of their sprint, and I'm never far enough behind to be unable to heal them mid-pull.
I very much agree. I avoid using gap closers during a mass pull to avoid getting to far ahead of my healer so they can do what they planned instead on being stuck panicking as everything is suddenly crumbling around them. Learn the general aggro distance and sprint right before you end up 'face pulling' and in most dungeons you will make it to the last pack in a pull before the full 20s sprint duration (when used out of battle) ends. Dont forget the use of self healing for aggro generation if mobs start too spread out for a simple AoE to hit them all or they have a spawning animation (some packs during dungeons like Amaurot or Troia) before you can actually hit them (very useful for PLD clemency usage during pulls or even a WAR equilibrium)
If you're playing with randoms and not friends i don't think you should ever plan to fall low on hp to use the immunity. On avg there are 2 pulls between bosses and you should have enough def abilities to split between these 2 and keep the immunity for the case if the dps are slacking enough to run out of the def abilities. On the other hand as a healer you should not treat someone else's hp as a resource as their perception is just as important, if tank uses more than needed def abilities (or worse immunity into your full heal wasting immunity) you're making your life harder for the next pull. Tank's only last 1hp matters mentality is true only if tank has trust in you to not let them die and not use their own resources to survive.
It is difficult, because if the tank knows as much about how your job plays as you do, there is equally a possibility the tank is confused why you are trying so hard to keep them at high hp 😅 Ultimately the best you can do is adjust to your group, and see what works best. I've certainly had healers I didn't trust to let me drop low, and healers that seemed to know exactly what they were doing 😊 both cases with randoms!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh It's true that you judge everyone's vibe to decide the approach. But generally if i tank and i drop below 10% hp i'll always use the immunity as even healer's latency could kill me even if they seem trustworthy. On healer's side i'll keep stuff like benediction as the last oGCD to use which naturally results in tank never falling below 40%. On WHM I don't remember last time i used GCD to heal during a pull, 7 oGCDs plus stuns and regen is so much you most of the time don't even reach for Ben or Bell (and Assize tends to be accidental heal as main goal is dmg). Unless it's a warrior you should never let tank drop below 25% as this is the territory where human mind can ruin your plan (especially you don't test Gunbreakers with full heal as there is nothing more tragic than casting Ben into Superbolide to set hp to 1).
@@WikiED Every tank I know will start self healing at 50% as healers have so many skills in their kits (every tank I know ALSO plays healer) that there is literally no reason for a tank's health to drop super low outside of standing in stupid and vuln stacks that go along with that. If the healer gets pissy at that (and I have had a few ask in very pissy moods why I cast heals on myself mid pull as a paladin) I laugh and tell them I figured I had to do their job too as they seemed to check out and become a glare mage. Like 3/4th your skills are a heal of some sort...USE THEM.
First :depend on a dung but being out of mit for boss fight feel WRONG . Second: second as tank main i find it first INSULTING THAT A HEALER WOULD LET ME GET BELLOW 30% IN CASUAL CONTENT,second i died a ton of time by trusting my healer and most of them savage raiders doing dailys,third for me to press a mit i am unable to press a damage button so that dps lost.
I have said this before to some of my friends and received differing reactions Everyone who tanks ought to level a healer and vice versa. It's very helpful to know, even at a basic level, what resources each role and job has at their disposal.
I absolutely agree. Having tried every role, including each type of dps, can give a huge amount of insight and help you to play a lot better around your teams strengths and weaknesses as well! 😁
In terms of healer DPS, while playing some current 90 dungeons as a Sage, I can expect to be up to ~45% of the party’s damage depending on the party, but with my equivalently geared static members I’m about even with the higher DPS damage numbers at something averaging ~23% of the party damage. Not that I would have a way of seeing that or anything.
An addition to WHM is that they don't have that many damage-neutral healing tools at the start of a dungeon. So they like it when tanks don't need constant attention right at the start. Which leads me to a question. Spend lilies between pulls for the damage and be forced to use GCD healing if the tank needs more healing or keep lilies and actually heal with those? Kind of depends on the group, I guess, but what do you do?
You only toss lilies you know you won't need 😊 If you miscalculate and end up short as a result, you'll probably have to get creative. However in a group reliable enough that you think about tossing lilies in the first place, you probably will have tetra, an extra divine benison, and at least one lily generated during that particular pull itself to work with, which is often enough - at least in my experience! The key is that the white mage will have to make this calculation in advance, similar to how scholars often prefer to spend their energy drains while chain stratagem is up (which is often long before they get another batch of aetherflow!) It's about planning! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I tested it extensively. By extensively, I mean once with a group in PF that I felt I could trust to do mechanics. It kind of works, but it still feels weird for someone who spent lilies shortly before being capped out or as needed. I'll get used to to just spamming them between pulls, I suppose. Bonus for the group above: It was a Warrior that used their cooldowns and Bloodwhetting.
I tend to take the "If I'm not dead, I'm not worrying" approach as tank. I trust in my healers and if I do die, then I just reduce my aggressiveness when it comes to mob pulling.
So as someone newer to the game and that plays a healer often I find myself sometimes panicking because the tank loses 3/4 of their HP in the span of a single gcd (trash pull not a tank buster). Is there something I'm doing wrong or what because I often find myself needing to spam my big heal non-stop to keep them standing because I'll do the same content with a different tank and barely heal at all. Idk if there is really a question in there but it is so hard to know which situation you're in until it's a problem.
As you say you are a newer player, there can be a few different reasons: 1) in lower level content, you (and your tank) will have less tools to work with, which sometimes can lead to more spiky behavior, and you having to rely on spam healing. This is somewhat normal, especially in really large pulls, which are more commonly available in lower level content for some reason. 2) if the tank is spiking that hard, and it is NOT a super big pull, it is possible they are under geared. 3) if none of the above, then it is possible the tank is not using their defensives smartly. I talk a bit about this in my mirror of this video (tanks from a healers perspective), as it is perfectly possible it is not your fault if you are trying everything you can! If you are interested, here is a link to that other video: th-cam.com/video/qCR8b6YfAtI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YqawKAmItsbIx6vy
The tanks either aren't using their mitigation skills smartly. Or you are in Stormblood or below (anything under 70) content in which case mob and boss auto attacks can crit which can lead to unlucky chains where a tank will just get crumpled. While leveling, people can get under geared which is always noticeable on tanks first and healers second. Keeping geared as a tank will show immediately on their survivability. Healers will notice a huge increase in their heals with a few changes of gear. DPS will notice their numbers spike but the group at large will only notice it taking slightly longer to kill something and otherwise feel no danger so it isn't a big deal.
TBN always takes priority over sage shields, so it'll break first and your shield can stay on for the next big hit (or absorb more damage if it's a really big attack). :D The one tank skill I worry most about is LD, if you miss it going up, you might have already screwed it up for them ^^;;;
This is more general, but when I play tank or healer at the start of a dungeon I like to always check the other's main weapon level to get a sense of how familiar with the job they might be. It's not the be all end all but it's a good baseline to know what to expect before I communicate about big or small pulls.
One important thing about Astrologian, their regen Aspected Benefic has an initial heal attached to it. If your Astrologian likes to apply it to you before pulls, please take note of that and try not to gap-close into the next pack the very instant they do it, otherwise the enemies are gonna see that heal, aggro onto the Astrologian, run right past you, and attack them. White Mage technically works similarly, but without the initial heal on their regen, you have until the first regen tick to establish enmity on the enemies before they care and try to attack the White Mage.
They changed it. Regen ticks no longer generate aggro. Applying a buff still does, so putting Regen on someone the instant before they engage will grab aggro on the rest of the pack just like AST.
As Fluffyfang said, healing over time generates 0 enmity. However, buff application does generate enmity, which means that if you use Regen or Aspected Benefic (or any other spell or ability that applies any sort of buff in fact) just as the tank pulls, you will generate Enmity. ^^
@@CaetsuChaijiCh That's weird... I never pull aggro with White Mage's Regen but do all the time with Aspected Benefic. Like, I see Regen generate some enmity since the enemies pop up on my list, but the enmity indicators on the enemy list are all green, like the act of me putting Regen on the tank is somehow weighted less than them simply seeing the tank existing. But the instant I wait a split-second too long to put Aspected Benefic on the tank and they gap-close mid-animation, everything is red and the enemies are rushing past the tank to attack me.
@@HakureiIllusionpossibly you have just always managed to land regen right after the tank's aoe lands, locking all the mobs to them, because regen ticks indeed no longer generate enmity. But you're also not imagining that you draw more enmity on A. Benefic, because while regen TICKS no longer generate enmity, upfront heals that happen on application absolutely still do, because all healing generates aggro. This is functionally the same thing as if you, for whatever reason, decided to spend an afflatus solace on the tank while in range of mobs. It's also likely partly the fact that like damage aggro, the more you do, the more aggro you generate. Because Aspected benefic has that initial upfront heal while regen only has the enmity that results from buff application, it will naturally draw more enmity. As a side note, healing aggro is amplified by tank stance, which is why when on WAR, I regularly use equilibrium (1200 potency heal and 200 potency regen) like an aoe provoke to double lock the pack after my first aoe, and also to pick up any strays I may have missed with said aoe. It's also an extremely efficient counter to the situation you described, and instantly yanks all mobs right back to me lol
As a long time healer, my main target is always the tank, secondary targets are DPS, cast DOTs where I can if I'm able, and focus on party heals when necessary. Sage I found has more flexibility when it comes to damage output, for example if I cast a crit heal barrier on the tank, I can focus ether on the other party members, or push our my AoE attacks.
As a note and former Scholar main that moved to BLM, barrier healers will generally have shit planned out for about a minute in advance while keeping tools in their back pocket as an answer for shit going wrong. Good barrier healers expect their party to fuck up and plan accordingly
@@CaetsuChaijiCh kind of. Much like a healer, a black mage will treat their hit points as a resource to the point where I will say to healers that I know that the only mechanic that matters is the one that cuts my damage output. Meaning, if the mechanic doesn't one shot me or give me a damage down debuff, I will ignore it and rely on incidental healing to make up for the damage I take. Similarly, as a Scholar, I don't tend to concern myself with party wide damage that can easily be handled by my fairy simply due to the fact that worrying about it will cut into resources that can be used to keep everyone calm.
Think my one bane as a shield healer is Crit chance. I sometimes try to give my tank a strong pre-pull shield just fot crits to fail me several times in a row as we are running to next pull. Some dungeons It is a crit lollapalooza, and other times you'd think I was running around as a Det/Pie healer x.x
Could be coincidence, but crit shields seem to proc way more when tank is at low health. Just suddenly comes in clutch when I have to stop and do a life saving shield and you get to see that absurdly big yellow bar save the day.
@@cattysplat It is more along the line of 'Crits don't happen when I want them to' more than 'they don't seem to happen at all.' I was more or less being facetious rather than being serious. It's like the old idiom of watching paint dry or watching a pot you are waiting to boil. It is inevitable that it will happen, just seems to be less often when expected to happen.
@yornam5391 They are short for Determination and Piety. Attributes in the game FFXIV. The insinuation I was making was to say I felt like a healer prioritizing those stats in my build since critical chance didn't happen when I wanted it to.
I'm still learning how to make use of my invulnerability skills in dungeon packs. I have a macro to let the healer know I want to use it on the next pull. But maybe I should write something more specific.
Announcing you will use it is usually good enough. If the healer doesn't know what to do with the information, they probably wouldn't process a longer explanation in time anyway 😊 Sometimes it just won't work as a result, but it is a lot better to announce it than not!
I appreciate any video that does not use "x healers are reactive, and x healers are proactive" because it's misleading and wrong even on a general situation. Also, the "warn healers before doing Ult things" is for all healers. I'd also say you under-sold Excogitation. Level cap duties, many pulls can be done with Recitation Excog and nothing else. It's a stupid as hell tool.
Oh excog is insanely effective! The main reason I didn't want to oversell it is because I know Scholar mains that find it unhelpful simply due to how it can end up dudding at times! 😊
I find that if intentionally using Benediction as a planned ogcd heal in dungeons, waiting for an hp drop to about 25% and before the next set of enemy autoattacks connect is generally the best use of it.
Something like that should work well yeah! Waiting until the tank is actually about to die is typically too long, especially considering potential latency!
And remember, the number one thing to know about all healer classes- DON'T WALL TO WALL AND DRAG THE TRAIN INTO THE BOSS ROOM IN LOW LEVEL ARR CONTENT. I am always amazed when I see stuff like that. No one has their basic tools in ARR. Hell, monks don't even get the MIDDLE part of their Aoe combo until level 45 (they do, however, get the start and end of the combo- and they have to mix in attacks from the single target to get by). And that doesn't even get into the cruelty of doing this to someone that barely even picked up a healing job and have yet to master the art of menu micro management.
THIS OMFG THIS! One out of every Five tanks tries this crap (particularly in Aurem, Stone Vigil. Cutters Or either of the Ampadors) I finally got sick of hearing Healers Adjust and began shooting back Tanks Die and DPS Respawns.
im surprised you didnt mention critical healing or mitigation- where healing someone off deaths door (20% hp or less) or critical mitigation (using a defensive cd that stops you from dying) builds more limit break. so that "risky" healer thats green-dpsing may just be intentionally building limit
Want to know what builds it faster? They got a response from the devs in Japan and it is hilarious how messed up the thinking is in the west because we have a risk taking culture... If you keep the tank OVER 70% during pulls the limit gauge fills at a noticeable rate. A healer actually healing helps more than a healer DPSing for that gauge. As you use mana it also fills. So using your mana cost casted heals helps the gauge more than waiting till it is critical and using a freebie big heal skill will. There is a youtube vid out there where a group tested it. Yes, a healer that is obsessively healing and constantly over healing helps the gauge more than a healer that is DPSing or trying to death's door heal does. Direct Hits also help the gauge surprisingly well. Barriers being used up similarly help the gauge a good bit.
The reason I didn't include this is because the amount of limit breaks used in a dungeon tends to be mostly the same, so forcibly generating extra gauge so we can sit at a full gauge sooner wouldn't be worth pursuing anyway 😊 Regardless of whether this is generated by healing from critical or keeping someone topped up 😊
as my old mate told me: everything over 1% hp is good enough. he was playing main tank but was a main healer in the addon before. what should i say.... it works :D also some tanks are such drama queens. "50% hp? i use clemency, just in case" - okey. seems like you want to tank AND heal yourself. fine by me. i have at least 2 DD's which are thinking that AOE's are swimmingpools. glad you helped me a little here and there :D
I gave Scholar a try after getting a lot of practice with White Mage. Was tricky to change my mindset for how it works. People told me that the fairy does most of the healing for you and it's easier than WHM. That was a lie.
Yeaaaah that suggestion that the pet does all the work mainly only applies in lower level content, and especially only if the tank isn't pulling massively! It is a huge switch in thinking between scholar and white mage, given that you plan very differently based on the very different toolkits!
stone vigil is ass for _any_ healer, because it level syncs to a level juuuust out of range of your best healing tools AND your AoE attacks, so you can't even help to kill things faster. And to add insult to injury, it's the level range where mob damage scales up, so you have more to deal with, with fewer tools. And tanks who haven't done their level 44-46 job quests and picked up their first set of artifact armor and upgraded accessories since like level 5 shred like wet tissue. It's the perfect mix of suckitude. That said, shield healing in general does need a different mindset, and as a tank main, I've found it helps to think very much like a tank. Just as my mits need to be applied during the cast/early in a trash pull _before_ the damage goes out, so should a shield healer's mits and shield be applied in the same way. You should already be doing this to some extent on WHM: divine benison, aquaveil, and the damage mit portion of temperance are all useless if you pop them _after_ the damage has already gone out. Shield healers just dial that side up some more; the bulk of their work happens before the damage; you don't have to heal, if you prevent the damage from happening in the first place lol. When I shield heal, I plan and split my mits very similarly to the way I split my mits on tanks: I have two planned sets of cooldowns that I cycle between (since almost all modern dungeons have a 2 wall pulls per boss format), and each set has at least 1 strong mit/shield that I stick on the tank either the moment they're done gathering shit and planted their feet (or after excog has gone off if I had excog up) something with a regen, something to top up with mid-pull when the first set of things have worn off and the tank has hit 50% again, and some other minor mit/shield/regen to put up after that if the pull is still going. At low levels before you get your actual tools though, it's pretty much gonna just be adlo/physick spam =P
I don’t know if I misunderstood the beginning but generally speaking barrier healers do not do healing over time, pure healers are the ones with healing over time. The heal potencies are roughly similar among all the healers but pure healers get HoT to accompany their heals and barrier healers get barriers to accompany their heals generally. (There are some exceptions ofc like AST getting some barriers through intersection and neutral sect)
@@yolahviing Depends on the job. If someone has to make a conscious effort to maintain it, then it's not really a DoT/HoT anymore. Embrace and Kardia take practically zero effort for the duration they apply for. Therefore, I'd consider them HoTs. I will say that if a SGE is changing Kardia targets every other GCD or so, then I'd maybe consider that to be a bunch of small single heals.
Sage has Kerachole (500 Potency over 15 seconds), Physis II (650 Potency over 15 seconds) and of course Kardia which actually works on most of the same features that all HoTs do, although that can be considered active healing. Scholar has Sacred Soil (100 Potency upfront + 500 Potency over 15 seconds), Whispering Dawn (560 Pet Potency over 21 seconds), and of course Embrace which is sort of not really a HoT but is technically equivalent to a permanent Regen on the team. White Mage has Regen (1500 Potency over 18 seconds, but only one target), Medica 2 (250 + 750 Potency over 15 seconds) and Asylum (800 Potency over 24 seconds) Astrologian has Aspected Benefic (250 + 1250 Potency over 15 seconds but only one target), Aspected Helios (250 + 750 Potency over 15 seconds), Celestial Opposition (200 + 500 over 15 seconds) and collective Unconscious (500 over 15 seconds assuming the player steps into the dome). Are you suggesting that Barrier healers are *not* making use of healing over time because they have one less healing over time option than the pure healers? In fact, when played optimally, there is a tendency that Barrier Healers make more use of their Healing over time than the pure healers, simply because the barrier healers have more often access to theirs through oGCDs where the pure healers tend to need to use GCDs. I feel like you are attaching to the wrong idea by trying to put barrier and pure healers in these kinds of boxes when every healer seems to reach across the table to have what the others are having ^^
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I didn’t realize barrier healers get that many HoTs (I still wouldn’t classify pet healing or kardia as a HoT personally but I get they kinda do the same thing so it really doesn’t matter) but I still think that pure healers are more identifiable for their HoTs that barrier healers are so it just came off weird that barrier healers were the ones mentioned as focusing on healing over time effects. I guess I base it on the generic healing buttons and not the OGCDs, if we take the OGCDs into account things get kinda murky with the designations in the first place as AST has a couple ways to apply barriers as well. The way I’ve always looked at the healers is that their designation is based of the additional effect their generic healing GCDs have added onto them and all the OGCDs are more job identity than role. Plus, according to your message, the potencies for pure healer HoTs seem to be much higher than the ones the barrier healers do get so wouldn’t that mean that they’re more important for the pure healers? I don’t mean to be rude or abrasive if it’s coming off that way btw I just honestly have never heard anyone associate barrier healers with HoTs before instead of pure healers (this is coming from an AST main who has not played any barrier healers so I’m not super versed in the specifics of barrier healer abilities aside from their general role in raids)
You'll tend to notice with Barrier healers the first pull they play cautious, then if theres no issues you'll notice them start to play chicken with your HP. I tend to gauge the DPS during the first pull if its good I rely on my passive healing and shields to get through pulls and just dps like crazy. Whats that? Yes i did just spam that shield for the crit, its my mana dont you judge me!
As WHM main, I actually just pop Medica II at the beginning of a fight, pop my dot on most mobs or just the tankiest ones, and then HOLY SPAM until BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY for OG Holy damage. I'll use Benison throughout, and also otherwise pop HoTs fairly regularly until the fights are over. However, I've definitely been caught off-guard by dungeons that crit for crazy amounts.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh So true. When I raided in savage I had to learn every mitigation a dps had so I can yell at them to use those specific abilities so we don’t get 1 shot by the boss >.>
It's hard to tell a good healer from a terrible healer up until the last second. Where the good healer will top you up just as keikaku and the bad healer is just starting to cast Cure II. Or at least that was the conclusion we got with a friend back in SB/early ShB. I guess things may have changed since then, but I've been healing since then so haven't had to think about it. What could this healer possibly have to do that's more important than healing? Watching the no thoughts head empty yoshi video.
This is actually an interesting counterbalance to the same thing I said about tanks from a healers perspective: Not using cooldowns to fall into the danger zone to get more value out of your invulns look exactly the same as a tank that doesn't know what they are doing. From that exact same logic, as you say, a healer who is letting the tank drop low to then heal them in bigger bursts, looks exactly the same as a healer who forgot to heal in the first place! ^^'
Thank you! That could be! Besides, these days it is almost impossible to escape the aether pact, so the advice here is actually more just for the tank players to not waste time! 😂
Am I like... one of the few white mages that heals obsessively if anyone is missing any HP or insta resurrects if even one person dies no matter who it is...?
@@TheGhostFart Dps craven tanks forget the purpose of a healer is to heal. Dps is when we're between healing the Dps for jumping in the spilled orange juice. If your running a warrior then most healers just leave you alone until your dropping below their safety limit. I've had tanks bitch i tossed out a rez on a DPS because they fell in battle due to sliding off the arena. Heals first DPS second. The white mage hate is hugely around either over healing or Holy spamming. This is why i am building up a greater refusal to contuine doing end content. After eighty people get much more obnoxious. Not even worth it half the time. Why heal when i could just live the easy life of DPSing.
I main a 90 scholar in end game content,i usually let my fairy do alot of the work and with aerherstacks i got an instant heal also dont think ive ever had a tank die on me lol actually the other night in expert 90 dungeons i had a dark knight that never needed healing they were juiced and had base 132k hp lol and self healed between my fairy and there self heal i was just a 3rd dps 😂😂
Unless I missed it you didn't mention benediction on WHM, which is a bit weird considering you did mention essential dignity on AST, with both encouraging the healer to let the tank drop as low as possible before healing them
Let me say as a Sage main I don't even like to let the tank get lower than 3/4ths hp. I don't care that some tanks can keep from dying they aren't going to get low enough to need those skills anyways. I use to have the mentality to allow tanks to have mini heart attacks knowing they could pop their pause death buttons but after enough times of sitting there wondering why the tank isn't popping their 'I am a god' button and then visiting the afterlife momentarily I have decided that I can't trust them enough so I am going to bitch slap them with all the shields and make sure they are fat on health.
SGE is a little different because none of the kit is conducive to easily healing up from 30%. The bulk of a SGE's kit is mitigation and shields, all of which are only useful in _preventing_ damage from happening in the first place. What few burst heals they have are tiny in comparison to what the other healers have, even SCH, as the other shield healer, has excog on a 40s cooldown and so will want to do some measure of yo-yo-ing with a tank's HP to make efficient use of their kit. SGE is the one healer who has nothing like that (closest is a soteria+zoe-pneuma I guess?), and their playstyle is very much control right from the get go.
@jessw2268 while yes a sage should control from the get go I have been in dungeons where for one reason or another I had to take attention off the tank for a dps here and there. For whatever reason they would suddenly drop to near death. My guess is they stood where they shouldn't have. In just the couple seconds to top the dps off the tank/s would start dropping. Moments like those don't happen often but when they do things stand out like a tank not popping their abilities to survive.
Speaking as a sprout who came from mobas: tanking feels incredibly good in this game. Most of the time, I can just walk into a pack and trust my healers to keep me alive. The only time I’ve ever gotten close to dying in a dungeon so far was when my healer started looting mid pull. Thaaaaat made me nervous
As a Warrior, I both love and hate tanking with WHMs. I have no braincells and I must use Bloodletting on cooldown, and overlapping it with Holy Stun is annoying. And obviously, i shouldnt be asking the WHM to delay his AOE so my fucking cooldown can work lol Nah, I just gotta activate one of my two neurons and remember to delay Bloodletting for like, 6 seconds.
Lol look on the bright side, at least you don't lose dps by wasting BW like that. Pity the DRKs who also smooth-brain insta-popped tbn. That shit costs mp, and you don't get the free refunded attack if that shield doesn't pop in time =P Personally, I also delay BW with all healers, because the heal from hitting a full pack of mobs is so strong, it is functionally a benediction on a 25% cooldown. This means that unlike all the other tanks, best way of rolling mits on WAR is to not pop anything at all after planting feet, wait until you're sub-50% hp, then Bloodwhetting to insta-heal to full, THEN use other cooldowns. If you're with a healer whom you know won't panic heal you in response, you can let yourself drop to 30%, or hell, holmgang. Think more like a WHM! Play yo-yo with your own HP!
My first healer was Scholar, which I played to 90 before trying any other healer seriously. I came to a realization: barrier healers are for the type of people who still have faith in their fellow FFXIV players, who believe the tank won't need saving every single pull because they use their mitigation correctly. Pure healers are for when you've given up and embraced the chaos, knowing you can save them no matter how few of their buttons they press.
As a Tank Main, I don't expect my healers to heal me, I'm for the most part self sustained. If anything the less healing they do the better, as long as the group is sustained.
![[FFXIV] How Tanks Work But From a Healer's Perspective](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qCR8b6YfAtI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FFXIV] How Tanks Work But From a Healer's Perspective](/img/tr.png)
![[FFXIV] Five Mistakes Healers Make!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h0vBZGWTCq0/mqdefault.jpg)
Not exactly important to know, but I'll still point out: if your Sage is running next to you between packs spamming E.Diagnosis, they're not bored or goofing, it's just fishing for the crit shield! It's a natural SGE behavior and indicates they are happy and content, like a cat curling it's tail, no need to worry.
Haha that is very true! 😁😂
Crit shield and toxi procs! Love sages cause you'll see them running INTO aoes to pop pre shields they put on themselves
@@purplefreedom1631dodging is a dps loss
as a sage main, i agree 😂
shhh dont give away our secrets
"What could a healer possibly have to do that's more important than healing?"
*standing off to the side snacking on a /riceball*
😂😂
These squats don't do themselves you know!
I was told by many i am nothing but a green DPS. Unless people are under 20% i shouldn't be healing as a white mage. I... Completely disagreed with this mentality. If they hit 30% it's because either multiple people stood in the spill deadly Orange juice and it blitzed them while i was healing, They actived a move that drains hp. Or they ran out of range/around a corner while i was casting. Really the only times. I Dps between keeping the party alive until the last 1/5th of the mobs health. heals first then Comes DPS. Make sure your healer is like your backpack. behind you and secured in place.
@@xenomorpher5458 As a Tank, i have to disagree with the last point. Dont stand behind me, please!
@@zordiark9673 not for the tank busters or sweeps of course.
@@xenomorpher5458 That sounds like a nice way to slow down dungeons and cause enrages.
WHM: My dear tank, You are nothing but food for the Bloodlilly. Now Get Hurt.
"give me reasons to Heal you" 😂
@@CaetsuChaijiChthis hahahaha. As a white mage, I’m sad that there aren’t more mechanics that require me to use the lilies. I hate the feeling of just dumping them when running.
I feel that way about the Sage Balls too, at least we get mp for those, but something like Sch Energy Drain would be nice to feel like I'm not wasting Lilies/Adders.
WAR: Who are you again? I don't need you. Get out of here! *bloodwhetting-decimate-decimate-decimate-primal rend*
@@koshi-dono I had 1 run where a healer died from trash aoes (probably because they either couldn't see or busy spamming their aoe). They died when we still had a nearly full, if not full, wall-to-wall pack. Careful management of cd with a last second holmgang. I laughed in the face of danger as bloodwhetting came off cd just as holmgang was about to drop off, went from 1 to full in a single hit. By the time they ran back, the pack was nearly dead.
being a tank main, the number 1 thing ive learned is to just trust the healer to do their job. especially in dungeons. just do your mit rotation and if it looks like youre gonna die, pop invuln. worst case you wipe to mobs, and then its just a learning experience for the healer. the only way to know your limits is to test them (or have someone test them for you lol)
obviously different in higher tier content.
This is very true. If you can stay cool and focus on what you can do, then that is often better than panicking and wasting cooldowns! 😊
Idk I've learned to not trust the healers I keep getting ones that aren't good at their job and im a slow tank because I keep getting healers that seem to be unable to keep up especially after a "Just trust me bro"
@TetsuRiken in those instances you just gotta take advantage of the fact that you are the defacto "leader" of the party as the tank. a quick bit of communication with your healer can turn these situations around. they may be used to running with a tank they know so they just can't anticipate your actions. sometimes you have to adjust the amount you're pulling, or checking in with yourself that you're using absolutely every tool you have available to you. sometimes, I've honestly just given them a hearty pat on the back, a "you can do it!" and that bit of confidence boost can give them a proverbial level up.
@corwinchapman8270 Indeed, my typical approach to dungeons is to pull like I normally do. And if things go wrong because I pulled more than the healer can take, I just take the blame. Often, I have found the healers step up and want to try again after that! 😊
@@TetsuRiken same here. Most of the healers are just green DPs on 70+ dungeons.
"You don't have to be scared of it. It just heals you." are the most reassuring words ive ever heard, as a newbie tank that gets jumpscared by any line that points at me, i definitely would have been like "uhhh i dont know this fight mechanic"
I'm glad it helps! I did list many of these kinds of effects specifically because they could be interpreted as something scary if you don't know! :D
One note about sages, they can gain more toxicon charges by breaking an aoe/single target shield placed on themselves so they might pull ahead or intentionally stand in an aoe to force an additional stack and gain more damage. Pneuma is also often used as a damage option on trash whenever it's up so I wouldn't count on it for healing.
Both of those tricks make sense, and used smartly is a damage gain. However, I have honestly never seen a sage do either of those things! That doesn't mean sages won't do that, but more to say that they are the outliers rather than the norm, hence why I think expecting pneuma to be used for healing as a default makes sense! 😊
Aye, it is rare to see them do this, but if used well can be beneficial.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Pneuma in dungeons runs *should* be used as close to on CD as possible. Damage wise it's a Toxicon with better reach, so using it on trash pulls is pretty common for most Sage mains (if it's an alt job for the player, they may not be thinking about it as a damage tool), then during bosses it's an easy heal without losing damage.
In a random expert roulette it's not uncommon to get 7 or so uses out of it.
So it really depends on how comfortable the player is with the rest of the kit
Can confirm, I even queue with a dps friend in order to shield them between pulls and get even more stacks lol
@@CaetsuChaijiCh some do that but I wouldn't do it deliberately in an alliance raid for instance, where AoEs can kill instantly. sometimes I throw the shields at the main tank and not my team's tank. anything to get that shield broken XD
Good guides on "this is what's going through your teammates head" and frankly super useful if you don't play the other role
I just tell people when tanking or healing. It's like a game of tag of war with your counterpart, but the goal isn't who can pull the other over. It's about keeping the rope marker in the middle. A tank and healer in sync with each other is a beautiful thing.
That's a great way to put it! 😄
Alternatively, if the tank is WAR and healer is WHM, there's no rope to pull.
Just DPS.
@@crowdemon_archivesThere's a special kind of joy a WAR gets when a WHM holds Holy spam until after Bloodwhetting ends.
That feeling when you land a nice thiccc barrier on the tank and the tank does a lovely strong mitigation along with it :)
My most vivid memory of playing AST was in the last SB story dungeon (level 69) with a PLD tank I was vaguely acquainted with. Quickly noticed that they would start to use clemency when they hit 60% health. After the dungeon, the PLD chewed me out for not spamming benefic 1 to fish for benefic 2 procs during the trash pulls.
I was so baffled, but I didn't argue since a friend continually sang the praises about how amazing this tank was and I didn't feel like making a big deal about it. I still remember that run every once and a while and all I can think is "but why??".
Yikes >.< Thats really all I can say there!
sounds like the infamous cure 1 mage.
Proof of why we need videos like this. Even the best tank might have no idea how a healer actually works.
It sounds like they're considered an "amazing" tank by virtue of not dying. For most people, not dying is kinda the baseline and how good you are depends on how much damage you do while not dying. Spamming Clemency will keep them alive, but it also makes the fight take longer and thus require more resources anyway.
I had someone once tell me that "warning healers isn't necessary any good healer knows when an invuln is up" and I feel like that's an incredibly toxic position to take. Sometimes shit on screen gets chaotic and you don't have time to stare lovingly at the buff list so warn your goddamn healers please, it takes 2 seconds to turn an invuln into a party chat macro with a sound effect and it saves both you and the healer time and panic thank you for coming to my TED talk
Not only that, but a lot of players don't even know what the buff icon for the invuln is! It's obvious when you have the action yourself of course, but not all healers have even leveled a tank 😅
As you say, it takes so little to give the warning!
For DRK I used to use "I'm only MOSTLY dead! But you'll probably want to heal me in about 10 seconds...."
@@katarh "I'm not quite dead yet! I think I'll go for a walk!"
Ngl i really enjoy the partnership with my healers and have a great time putting my life in their hands ❤ Also playing a tank has made me give zero effs about wiping. We just adjust and go again. Plus as a drk I'm not scared of dying...i do it on purpose at least once per dungeon lol
That is a wonderful way to go about it! 😄
I think as a community, we should be more okay with wipes. if we were used to wiping more often in regular content, I think it would make trying to do ex or savage in pf less gruelling. fewer people would get discouraged by an early wipe and stay longer.
I noticed that a DRK tank is a joy to work with as a WHM as they are just so darn hard to kill and as a pure healer, Living dead isn't a concern as I know I have the heals to knock it out.
@@rifleman2c997man I want to know what theyre doing then. Im a drk main and I just melt in lvl 80+ dungeon pulls
@@rifleman2c997 Hard to kill? A DK? Uh no. Darks as squish. They have less mitigation options than every other tank.
Pala and War are the ones healers can legit turn their brain off while healing.
There is also a slight funny aspect to ARR, Heavensward and Stormblood content in that mobs and boss auto-attacks can crit. This is something removed from the game in Shadowbringers content onwards. It can produce sudden spikes in damage when the tank suddenly gets a chain of crits, especially noticeable on paladin because crits are unblockable. Combined with the lack of OGCs for healers in lower level content, can make for some very sudden moments the tank takes spike damage at completely random intervals. Usually a consistent healer will not have a problem with this, but a lazy or risk for more damage healer can make random tank death far more likely.
That is true! And a quite interesting thing that hasn't been retroactively changed yet 😅
Is that still the case for the re-done dungeons?
A borderline suicidal but somewhat noteworthy thing you'll occasionally see with particularly headstrong White Mages is them intentionally pulling a single mob off of you- they might be fishing for a few Liturgy of the Bell procs. Every time that healer gets poked by the annoying imp or jellyfish, the entire team (including the tank) gets a 400 potency heal- after 5 GCDs, it's like 2000 free heal potency. Rarely needed, but it's a fun thing myself and a few Free Company people do.
Another great video! I feel like this is important to watch even if you're not a tank. I can't tell you how many people do NOT give me the courtesy of stepping into my bubble :c They made the WHM one nice and big now but the AST dome is still pretty small and people NEVER step in
Thank you!
Yeah it's extra weird now because the ast bubble has two separate effects and only one of them is applied in a massive aoe 😣
@@CaetsuChaijiCh honestly I'm waiting for Dawntrail at this point cuz I don't even like EW ast anyway xD
Thats just when you yoink them in with rescue tbh 😂 sometimes people just dont know whats going on esp in alliance raids. If they complain you just say you misclicked 🤫😉
This video came at a hysterical time. I came out if a roulette in solm al where a tank complained i wasnt healing enough as whm. I kept them around 1/3rd, used primarily benediction as the heal bc no lily dps refund.
They kept doing wall pulls, never died, and kept fearfully running around outside of my giant asylum. We both had up to date SAVAGE gear, and i thought we were vibing with advanced big pulls.
They ask me to heal them more, i say its okay bene is off cooldown. They still never die.... And for the rest of the dungeon they start using tank lb1 on mob pulls
That is an incredibly strange tank 😅
Tank anxiety is a heck of a drug.
Meanwhile if I'm scared of dying I'd just hit invuln lmao
I will be brutally honest to you. I see WHM that do what you do get kicked from groups if they don't listen and 'heal more'.
Benediction often doesn't land when it should due to input lag/server lag, and the inherent time delay before the instant and when the effect itself goes off. I do not know a single tank that enjoys playing alongside WHM mains, because WHM lets their health sit far too low way too often.
@@crowdemon_archives If I see a WHM consistently letting me drop below half, I pop superbolide on pulls REGULARLY. This usually freaks out the healer enough they stop playing chicken with my health and the time for the party. You respect my time? I pull safe and fast. You try and ec out every last bit of your kit for all of 2% more efficiency over the course of a dungeon? Nope. I will pull slower, pop bolide, I will drive you insane on purpose.
If a tank's HP ever drops below 50% you failed your job as a healer. ESPECIALLY as WHM or AST. You can keep 2 regeneration spells up 24/7 on a tank at no mana cost due to the freebie casts you have during regen times.
Healer main here, and dear lord I loved this breakdown. It's fairly concise for a semi-deep dive, goes over the main difference between the main class roles, and just generally would be a tool I would share for all my friends who play infrequently and wouldn't remember all the details.
I'm very happy to hear that! Thank you! ^^
I'm a savage WAR tank and a SCH healer for funsies. As a warrior, I see: WHM = I'm gonna get low so keep my own cooldowns on point, AST = same as WHM but try not to pop my good stuff when their good stuff is also about to go out, SCH and SGE = happy tank noises, I'll be fine unless something goes horribly wrong and even then I'll still probably be fine if I'm in level 60 content or higher. (I've solo'd a LOT of stuff as a warrior lately.) As a SCH, I prefer a WAR tank because I know they're basically immortal and it's all the more AoW I'll be able to do, but the only tank I get frustrated with are "cooldowns are for bosses only" types. Tanks, dear dear tanks, IT'S THE OPPOSITE. Bosses don't need cooldowns nearly as much as a pack of 10 angry trash mobs wailing on you do.
As a SCH main, it never ceases to amaze me just how much a difference basic skill levels are when it comes to tanking, perhaps never more pronounced than watching a GNB blow through all your mit cooldowns and is still dying like he's half naked.
This was interesting to watch too, *as* the healer main. Something to note about the healers for DKN, is that we often go through "pre-pull" healing setups, where we setup powerful GCD heals out of combat when they're not damage losses and/or powerful oGCD heals to get them on cooldown quicker and more often, so that we can delay how long into the pull we actually need to start healing. The exact prepull we can do will depend on the level cap, and I believe you loosely talked about it, but here's what I do as each healer at 90:
AST- neutral sect + aspected benefic + intersection (big shield + regen, puts a large buffer on the tanks health) -> earthly star where the tank will stop, or macrocosmos if earthly is somehow on CD (powerful *delayed* heals with damage tied to them)
WHM- regen + benison (strong regen + a shield) -> temperance if i have it, + either liturgy (big delayed heal with a varying amount of potency) or asylum (big regen). A small amount of the liturgy or asylum will go to "waste" because of the holy stuns, however they outlast the stun duration, and help stem the "all the mobs are autoing me in sync" damage. Usually by the time those expire, you've now got a lilly to work with
SCH- protraction + fey + recitation + swift + adloquium, + excog if i have an aetherflow. Self explanatory, big fucking shield, the swift is bc I do it while running between pulls and out of combat, but juuust before the tank starts pulling so it actually gets eaten by the trash. Soil too if i have the aetherflow. Excog lasts 45s so it'll pop long after the shield is eaten and the soil expires, this setup *drastically* extends how long a SCH can deal damage for before needing to think about healing their tank
SGE- zoe + eukrasian prognosis is all I use prepull tbh, SGE is its own busted one man swiss army knife mitigation plan in trash pulls.
*This matters when planning your cd uses as a tank*. Here's the thing, I know how living dead works. If I don't know which pulls you're going to LD, especially if I haven't seen you use it yet all dungeon, I'm going to keep doing my prepull rituals. Your LD macro isn't going to make a difference if you use it mid pull after I've already primed an earthly star or macrocosmos or thrown out a liturgy. I see a lot of DKN complain about healers not letting their LD go off, but at the same time, as the healer, I see DKN using it at some of the worst times too. Best example is I'm just sitting there as a WHM blasting my holy stuns, or I've placed the prepull excog on them. At that point, it's as much the tanks responsibility for not knowing their healers abilities as it the healers responsibility to know what their tanks can do.
Conversely, if I know *before* we start pulling (I ask, or the tank says well in advance), I can plan a different cooldown plan around what the tank wants to do for that pull. For example I had a Dead Ends the other day where the tank said something like "Ld on second and final pulls". I was on SGE, so what I did in response was actually move kardia *off* the DKN before those pulls, and didn't setup anything until well into the pulls until after the tank invulned. The DKN was easily able to get both LD off, and it was one of the smoothest Dead Ends I've ever had
A lot of great points indeed!
Personally, if I am playing DRK and I plan to use Living Dead for a pull, having some extra setup from the healer beforehand isn't going to get much in the way, since I will simply use Living Dead later! I think the big concern is more if the healer starts to continue healing once Living Dead has been activated, or if the healer chooses to run themselves ragged trying to keep you topped when you are clearly waiting to use Living Dead!
This is not to say this advice is bad, in fact, it is great!
For the SCH part, I do the recit for the excog then Protrac>SC>Adlo just as the tank dives in. Grants me the time to dot spam.
As a tank i learned to sometimes go in raw when it comes to pulling with a WHM, they like to spam holy then heal you up in between it, so if you pop a strong mitigation right as your going into the end of the pull then more times than not the WHM is going to immediately stun everything and all that time being mitigated is going to be wasted on a long pause period of nothing hitting you, so when your WHM is prone to doing that, go in with weak or low cooldown skills then after they holy'd the enemies enough to where they are immune to stunning then pop your stronger ones.
it's why i like to pop divine benison on tanks before they sit down to burn the trash, gives them some early mit as i go to swift holy into PoM holy spam
As a WHM main I also use the wings spell at the start of the first and 3rd full pulls as it gives mitigation to everyone when nearby, the game seems to be built around 2 big pulls before boss then another 2 big pulls before another boss, using those big high level spells with long cooldown fits perfectly and usually finishes its cooldown before the boss room.
This is very true, and I usually try to focus on this particular observation when giving cooldown advice (especially for tanks and healers!) so that is a good practice!
same same, plus temperance actually buffs your heals so when you weave assize or have to use tetra/lilies it heals for extra hp
When I play scholar, there is never a time when excogitation is not on the tank. If I have the aetherflow, I'm slapping a page on the tank's face.
A very safe approach! 😊 Nothing wrong with that!
I may not use it on bosses in dungeons - odds are pretty good the tank won't drop to the point where it will even trigger, even with a tankbuster in there, unless something has gone HORRIBLY wrong. And that's an aetherflow stack I can use for damage instead. But on trash pulls? Heck yeah, Excog is a perma buff on my tank. It just means more ground slapping.
@katarh I don't really use my aetherflow for damage honestly. I mainly use it on healing, or the scholar bubble.
Glad that it was mentioned that, while Scholar doesn't need to give up its pet healing to use its GCD heals, Sage loses Kardia any time it needs to GCD heal
Indeed! It isn't something that comes up much so I can see why some would miss it! 😊
Loses kardia and the damage too. Making it especially painful.
@@cattysplat Anyone loses damage if they need to GCD heal though
I think one thing that tanks should know with barriers is that your mit greatly increases the the value of barriers. So dont wait for your health to go down to mit do it immediately once you stop to dps the mobs
Absolutely, I agree that mitigation should be used once you start to fight proper! 😁
Warrior tank: Disregard healer, heal self.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Yeah, should always have some sort of migration up, PLD at least has a proper cycle with them so theres always something up. But theres one tiny adjustment to make: In dungeons, if your healer is a WHM, delay starting that migration cycle by like 6 seconds so the first two holy stuns dont get wasted.
Actually it doesn't matter if you're mitigating damage done to your shield or your health. Barrier is just your health, effectively (if anything it's slightly *worse* to mitigate barriers, because they can theoretically expire unlike your health). It makes no sense to pop defensives to make barriers last longer. It's far more important to mitigate bursts of damage. Now using mitigation only when you go low is a noob signal, because it's what makes sense to do from an instinctual standpoint. But what you should be doing is pop your defensives before you know you will take a lot of damage (which prevents you from going super low in the first place). But this part requires experience as a tank and with the mobs/bosses you're dealing with, of course.
I trust my healers implicitly, unless I see cure 1 spam in above lvl 30 content. Then cowabunga it is.
Sometimes they run out of mana and need to fish for freecure, I've had to do that once.
It is a tell-tale sign of a newb healer tho.
@@GameGod77 mp is nonissue if you're using lucid anytime you drop below 7000 even at lower levels
@@TheGhostFart Unless they changed the calculation for piety in Endwalker, it's very much gear dependent, so low levels can still struggle
@@GameGod77 Nobody cares about freecure, we use Cure 1 sometimes if we are afraid that cure 2 isn't gonna make it in time because it casts slower. If dps has lost half hp then cure 1 will probably top him off and you have tiny bit more time to dps. But dps taking damage often means they are not going to stop taking damage so time is on the essence and regen wouldn't save them. That's especially in crystal tower raids in couple places when tanks aren't doing their job.
On the record i've had cases where even Cure 1 didn't cast in time.
@@seonteeaika Preach! I spend most of my time in the Crystal tower raids Rezzing DPS and Healers in OTHER groups. I've had more then a few tanks forget to slap their Emnity effect on and it's led to issues. Though DPs dancing in AOE's is also a close second. Trying to avoid AOEs ourselves while doing heals and Damage is why so many people refuse to play healers now days on my server. They get stressed out. Having played healers in over a half dozen MMO's this is a unique issue with FF14's Culture.
I don't mind white mages letting my health get low before a bene, but please keep in mind that if you let it get TOO low, I could conceivably get killed in the time it takes for your button press to register in the game's netcode. Seen that happen too often lol
Yeah indeed, that's also why I recommend not greeding TOO hard as a White Mage. I have also seen it happen too many times!
One small tip to also go by; NEVER trust your healer in any capacity when you play a tank, always have your own heals ready and or potions for emergency heal. (this also applies to friends who need sleep lol)
as a long time player i can say that with certain.... just because your HP is nearly down with a whm fopr examble never expect em to actually pop a benediction lol
especially if you play with randoms, try a regular pull to pull to see how well the healer does. and also how fast the enemies die.
A little DRK advice, don't pop TBN immediately when you've pulled all packs to wall if the healer is WHM. The stuns might not allow the TBN to proc from the Holy spam. Pop your rampart/shadow wall first when you get low use Abyssal Drain early. After the second holy's stun, your TBN will start proccing again. It's a good habit to use Drain early/first anyway due to the low cooldown.
Also, if you're feeling squishy or out of mitigation, remember that arm's length paired with reprisal or oblation is really strong against trash. Since practically 99% of their DMG is auto attacks unless you don't dodge aoes or very occasionally interrupt or stun some attacks.
As a tank, I do get a bit nervous when HP goes down to 25%.
Most ppl do in dung they are casuals that why the current sistem is bad
If my HP is 3 digits, I am doing a self heal, if those are CD then invul it is lol.
Hearing how each kind of healer works helps me understand why I gravitate towards scholar more overall than Astro. I like both, but scholar feels a lot more stable to me, and also plays to my tendencies as a healer as well. I also find it hard and uncomfortable to anticipate damage spikes a lot of the time, I've been trying to keep an eye on what mitigations the tank is using to see if that helps me, but so far things are inconclusive.
Scholar does requires a lot more brain power for me to play though, so I can definitely see the "doesn't handle surprises as easily". I think at peak performance I'm better on Scholar than Astro, but Astro is the safer choice for me to play if I'm tired and just want to do some story or roulettes.
Though there is no glee like the fat shields I can put on people, maybe that's what really makes scholar the winner in my heart.
Sometimes it's one kind of silly thing that makes it work!
Personally I always played Scholar before sage came around, and what made me like sage even more was... Genuinely... That my favored ability sacred soil was even easier to use on sage as kerachole! Obviously other things stand out as well, but that was the initial turning point!😂
As a sage please don't grab the whole dungeon unless I'm ready, or run too far ahead of me, I cannot heal from across the map...
I don't have many nuke healing options, so I have to be protactive in preventing the damage instead. Be kind to your local barrier healers
That last bit sounded a bit like a callout at my living dead shenanigans
Oh I am not sure if there is an outright correlation! 😂
Lmao
Also, SCH’s Adlo is a GCD cast! If you can wait the 3 seconds before pulling it takes to apply it, then the SCH won’t accidentally pull aggro or fall behind in the pull. I find I have to Swiftcast my adlos in Expert content because folks can’t be bothered to stop for a couple seconds to save many more.
That's true. Personally I don't find I need that swiftcast for anything else, so I tend to just recommend defaulting to swiftcast adlo myself 😊 but yeah if you had the extra seconds you could save that!
It's generally uncommon for someone to be one-shotted to death in a dungeon, so I tend to only spend swiftcast as SCH on prepull Adlo.
I just started to give them protraction and excogitation while running, then a sacred soil at the end of the pull. I only use Adlo during pulls when they get excog to pop.
So far the tactic worked fine. Some tanks get a bit nervous though because they are in a party with a shield healer and don't have any shields on them at the beginning.
@@ibidaxiuero Tanks only get nervous when the HP dips below 50%. You keep a tank above that mark? We feel nothing but joy at having you with us.
@@Nempo13 thats the issue with that tactic, since I put Excog on them while running instead of adlo, I let them fall below 50% for it to pop on purpose. Not having any gcd barrier cast on them during the pull tends to make them nervous. What I found however was that passive healing from the tanks themselves combined with fairy and sacred soil is enough to keep them afloat most of the time. They only need an Adlo maybe 20-30 seconds in after sacred soil wears off.
Basically, it's nice to play a bit a everything, so we can understand how healing works from a tank's pov, and same in reverse.
One thing I should add is : Trust your WHM, and don't use your panic button "invu" if you didn't see the benediction pop. Nothing worse as a WHM to click on bene, then see the tank use invu 0.5s later, cause he was scared, and go back to 1hp.
Thanks for doing this! Now I feel like I need to level every healing job to gain a better understanding 🤣 Cheers 🍻
Enjoy your journey leveling them! 😄
As a healer i know why they do it.. but I just don't do it to people. I don't want to scare the shit out of a tank in a random unimportant dungeon just for the sake of uptime. It's silly. Just keep 'm nice and topped up...or at the very least above 50%. The difference is neglegable in random roulettes or you're running with random people. I did some tests with this and it really didn't make much of a difference at all. It made a difference when we ran it with a group of the same good people that knew how to run their classes... which in roulettes is rare. And the average tank really doesn't like this low hp stuff.. mostly because they don't know.
I do agree, and when I'm playing healer, I usually don't let the tank drop too far down either, exactly because it can have the effect that the tank starts playing unpredictably because they don't trust me 😅 this indirectly makes it suboptimal to greed too hard with this!
@@CaetsuChaijiChAt the same time; especially when running Unreal's the healers seem to greed a little too much. They want to keep uptime high and my health is usually pretty low,... but then as a tank I know another tankbuster or raidwide is going to come soon. I've died plenty of times because of this. I ended up tankswapping with a tank buddy all the time just to avoid us dying. It gets silly.
Haha, imma healer main, i try to ride tank health at around 40-50%. Of course varies for which healer and which level dungeon.
Yeah, that makes good sense as a default! Some tanks heal more than others after all, so leaving a large span for them to work with is not a bad idea!
Whenever I bene my tank after letting them get to like 5%, it is totally on purpose and not because I forgot I was a healer....
Hey at least some players will think you planned it if you dont say anything! xD
Speaking of Scholar or Sage, especially lower levels I like to say "I can heal or I can panic but I cannot panic heal so try to avoid cases were you drop fast"
Chain strategem somtimes... lol. as SCH is my main healer, i can confirm that i also use chain strategem somtimes. in fact, its CD is actually 2-3x longer than whats written on it. 🤣
I main sage. My dungeon plan is normally preshield before a pull > haima at the start while dpsing, when it expires you pop soteria (increased kardia healing) and keep dpsing, then when that expires you taurochole and keep dpsing
Interesting, I tend to do a bit more than that, without losing any damage! 😊
Sage's kit usage is very dependant on the content. At high levels I prefer pairing krasis and physis for a much thicker shield as a tank hits the last pack in a pull so I can start going AoE heavy while weaving kerachole and occasionally haima/panhaima in larger/more damaging pulls. In lower content soteria sees more use purely because you can't get thick shields as easily (sometimes only having occasional AoE as spam AoE is lvl 44)
For WHM, it's always worth clipping your GCD after Holy to use Assize.
And I didn't see mention of the concept of dumping lily's between mob pulls for damage.
I usually throw down a bubble for one pack, and use temperance for another.
Most tools designed to mitigate aoe damage are always worth using for pulls since boss damage is a joke. (think Haima and Panhaima which both are useful for mobs)
I'm currently informing myself to start my first character as a healer!
As a Monster Hunter Veteran, I noticed something specifically, DPS on all cost.
Even if you're supporter or tank, in the end, DPS matters.
In the end everyone want to spend less time doing an instant/raids what so ever, aslong everyone is alive, then the job has been done well.
Great insight to the perspective of the tank and I'll try to keep them in mind! :)
To quote one of my guilds raid healers "Your fine, you have more than one hp, stop being needy"
The toxic healer mindset
Based healer mindset
Tbh when i have a WHM Healer or two WHM Healer in casual content, i expect to be always on the blink of death because no one will interrupt their Glare "Rotation"
They don't really have to, they've got buttons that dont require them to stop glaring.
The real reason is probably as the video explains; efficiency. Benediction gets more value if you're low health, etc.
As a WHM, I do that because I don't know all the tank mits by heart (and especially not their cooldown time). Keeping the tank at about 40% is actually pretty safe if people are geared, gives the tank the chance to make use of anything that heals them, makes sure I'm not wasting any Regen effects, and if my Lily/Tetra crits, it'll heal about that much. The fact that it scares some less experienced tanks into using their mit at all is a bonus.
can't hear you over the 8 seconds of holy mitigation i'm giving you
@@JayAshkevron Sure i know but i also have some _very_ bad experience with WHM.. like let you die in lvl 50 alliance raids where all Tanks still need healing to stay alive when they are MT (yeah even Warrior) or WHM that let me die (tbh the dps was also very low) even if i rotate all my mitigation etc.
Tbh its more a trust issue.. some of the best healer i meet was WHM but also... "Please for the love of god play some DPS.. a Whitemage is a _Healer_ not a one button dps!"
@@kohlicoide2258 I believe that's caused by WHM being accessible since the other healers require 30 levels of ARC, Heavensward, or a level 70 job. They're disproportionately newbish. Kinda like how DRG got a reputation for being floor tanks because new players think it looks cool.
Huh... so I guess this explains why I encounter more wipes with other WHM/AST, some of ya'll are a little *too* cocky with the "don't worry I got this bro" last minute emergency healing, especially in lower level dungeons, lol.
That is certainly possible 😂
That why healers in ffxiv are not your freind
THANK YOU! - All WHM in the game.
Thank you too!
As a Red Mage main, I'm watching EVERYTHING to make sure someone hasn't died unexpectedly or needs a quick extra hit of HP, all while doing my DPS rotation.
When I tank I prefer WAR, because then I only need a Healer for the 17 seconds between Bloodwhetting wearing off and me being able to use it again, and for those times I have Equilibrium, Thrill of Battle, and Shake it Off to bridge the gap.
i feel like as a DRK main too many Healers see Living Dead get popped and when the Drk is at low Hp triggering Undead Rebirth and imediately hit the Oh shit Heal button you dont need to do that it makes the DRK lose thier Invuln early and with Endwalkers Release they made Undead Rebirth give 1500 cure potancy for Weapon Skills.
this Is Mainly a DRK thing but it makes me not want to hit the invuln specificly if there is a White mage cause of Benedictiion
Undead rebirth is not the buff that heals you!
Walking dead (the Grey hourglass) heals you. But once it becomes undead rebirth, you basically just have Holmgang, and since you're a dark knight, you don't have bloodwhetting, so if you drop low again after reaching undead rebirth, it's only the healer who will be dealing with that problem! 😅
However, I get what you meant, that healers have a tendency to react too soon to living dead, making it fail to function! 😊
personally i throw TBN on when undead Rebirth hits cause it helps the healer out a bit.@@CaetsuChaijiCh
As a low-level relatively new player, not to mention healer (All my time playing healer might add up to a day, with 70% spent playing white mage). I find some dungeon runs a breeze as Scholar, but it really depends on the Tank. Most wipes I had as a Scholar were thanks to tanks suddenly trying to do wall-to-wall pulls suddenly after the first boss, using sprint, and just running away without telling the group, when they first did two or three enemy group pulls. This frustrates me even more when it happens in Dungeons with a lot of corners and ups/downs with rocks or other things blocking vision.
They just run to the wall, ignoring the Minimap, where it shows we can not keep up and I can not even heal the tank as he runs pulling mobs, thanks to the Corners and losing visions, so when I finally reach them, they have under 50% to 35% hp left. Mind you as it is in lower levels tanks do not have the Emergency button and as a scholar I have mostly slow regen-type heals, so I spam heals waste all my CDs, watch my tank die, and then we wipe to the huge group of mobs.
As a white mage, I might have healed through it, but not as a Scholar. Maybe this is why I like Warriors more as tanks than Paladins, when playing scholars, as they can at least heal themselves in these pulls and do not rely on constant spam heals as Paladins do at lower level. Even more so since newer players like me do not know how to manage cooldowns right to take less damage as a tank.
I know tanks suddenly doing wall-to-wall pulls means they trust me as a healer, but a heads up would be nice, so I know to activate sprint and follow to the invisible wall with you, and not get abandoned behind.
Yeah I get that! If the tank has been going slow and then suddenly flip to fast it would be nice with some sort of heads up!
My best suggestion to try and do something in such situations is to use swiftcast to speed out an adloquium while running. Indeed, that will remove the option of raising the tank if they die, but then again, it might be a wipe if that happens anyway!
Use your swiftcast to put a shield on the tank when you catch up and then use your heal without the shield (it heals for more) in between shield applications. When their HP gets up drop a dome down down on them and it should work out for you.
Shield healers require a different approach to things and remember that any heal that also applies a shield will heal for less than your heals that do not. So don't waste mana casting a 1k mana heal+shield over and over again as the barrier does not stack, you are over writing it. Cast that 400 mana heal in between the shield heals and you will see their health come back up much quicker. I normally save the aether charges for dome shields. Any tank that knows how to tank will stay inside your dome.
Try a shield on the tank like 1-4 seconds before the pull dies. You will have the mana back and they have a bigger hp pool. If your tank pops sprint wait for 3-ish seconds, or give them 15m headstart and press your own. Should help you get into the fight quickly.
Heads up would obviously be nice but you gotta do what you gotta do.
I always tell my team at the start of the dungeon that there WILL be running involved when I tank.
To be honest, it is hilariously silly how much a Scholar doesn't even really have to think about healing outside of dungeon bosses in dungeons like level 50 and below, I first tried Scholar with a Castrum run since it was already maxed thanks to Summoner leveling, and like, other than applying shields before pulls, I felt more like a DPS
The scarier thing was the party saying they were shocked that was my first time playing healer due to how good I did my job
I can imagine how that went!
"but I didn't do anything!"
Meanwhile your faerie cleaning her nails in the corner 😂
Yeah, definitely the fairy going off, I did have to do some, minor healing during bosses at least, but fairy MVP at low level lol
Only thoughts about healers as a warrior:
White mage: Mald that Holy is a DPS loss for your Vengeance, Mald extra if the healer doesn't chain their Holy's back to back and you need to wait longer to press your button, potentially losing uptime as targets die before vengeance times out. Wish they were playing literally anything else.
All other healers: Bloodwhetting is the only healer I need. B) Idgaf what the green DPS does with their time in the party.
i never want a white mage in my duty finder roulette's, atleast for dungeons.
I don't need you and your stun actively harms me than anything else, granted i don't use vengeance till I need it for mitigation purposes, but wasting a bloodwhetting means that when the stun is finally over, i'm going to melt because mr white mage is basically wasting my resources. (granted, I just kite the enemy around so they have to move to me and buy me extra time for Bloodwhetting to return)
@@DarkDyllon Yeah, I think for me, especially for 90 content I've just found vengeance to be a bit redundant and I rarely need it, so I just slam it out aggressively about the time I use bloodwhetting if there's no white mage. Not the safest play, but I know I have the tools if things suddenly get spicy for w/e reason, and playing a healer a lot as well, I know in high level content, I'm just throwing CD's out to buffer or provide DR rather then because I actually need them. As a sage I can get through a whole dungeon without any CDs if I really need too, but its fun to use buttons, so. : ^)
I do kind of hope dungeons are a bit tougher in Dawn trail, I know its supposed to be easy content, but it feels given the array of tools we have, the 80-90 bracket especially on a warrior is a bit silly, but also having 660 gear likely makes it even easier then it should be.
@@Zoltri yeah I get what you're saying, might throw vengeance in there aswell because why not.
the difference in howmuch damage mobs do at the lvl 89 dungeon vs the lvl 90 dungeons is actually quite high, in the dead ends (i think, the lvl 89 dungeon) they actually hit enough that an healer can be seen as beneficial, even for a WAR using proper CDs, but everything after that is such a breeze, especially with max ilvl gear, even before that honestly, I honestly think the biggest issue is just simply how poorly they handle the ilvl sync, since even if you get synced down to max ilvl for that duty, you're far overgeared, generally at max ilvl for that raid tier and it feels completely off.
either that or they need to adjust howmany packs there are, I honestly hope they kinda revert back to Stormblood dungeon design, where you can actually pull 3-5 packs and actually have to show some skill in order to survive, it's not the most difficult like savage or ultimate, but it's far harder than anything SHB or EW has thrown at us in terms of dungeon content.
I remember the 1st time I went into the lvl 70 monk dungeon (1 of the 2 optional dungeons at the end of SB) as WHM and I was sweating to keep the tank alive (granted, tanks were way less powerful back then)
It was honestly 1 of the best times I had playing the game, I wouldn't mind feeling like that again since the only times I feel anywhere remotely challenged is with Savage or Ultimate content, Extreme is a bit too easy for me at this point, but that's just my personal take, I know plenty of players who struggle with even Zeromus EX.
I main tank (mostly WAR since why not) and most content is just kinda easy, with dungeons being completely braindead, it's also ridicilous that on WAR, an healer is completely optional and it's more beneficial to have a 3rd DPS rather than an healer.
@@DarkDyllonBut how can you see a WHM and open with bloodletting? Just delay it by 7 seconds. You know the Holy is comming. It's not that hard.
Same with DRK. I have heard the complaint so often. Just....delay the skill.
Or would you rather have the healer just do single target and loose out on a whole lot more dps?
@@yornam5391the weird thing with blood lilly in trash is it actually is a 5p damage gain per enemy on the falloff hits to just sit there and hit solace three times and then send the blood lilly. So you theoretically *can* sit there farming a blood lilly while your DKN LDs or your WAR uses their 30%, but the issue is that 1. you have no solace on the very first pull of the dungeon after that, and 2. farming blood Lilly's *out* of combat adds up to literal thousands of free potency over the course of a dungeon, so it's rare that you're going into a pull with a misery + full solace charges, unless you had a very very weird boss kill time where you decide to hold your blood lilly for trash if you say get the misery when the boss is at like 1% hp AND still have solace charges to boot when you kill.
So yeah... just play around the holy lmao
Before I watch. The big thing for me is a tank and healer having a general idea of each other's kits and know how to use them to best support each other. Personally I prefer shield healers (especially when I play DRK) mostly because some tanks can have their mit rotation jumbled by WHM holy spam stunning things (DRK isn't taking damage for TBN or living dead) or thinking regen is enough (especially for non-WAR tanks that don't have the likes of raw intuition or bloodwhetting). AST is good if they can keep up with the chaos of healing and playing their cards as a good chunk of their ability heals also have shields attached. Most tanks have enough general self sustain that only a worst case scenario requires major healer intervention.
Overall I agree with another comment; tank/healer synergy is a tug of war focused on keeping both sides equal in weight.
One other thing, sage's pneuma has a built in offensive line aoe that is a dps gain on their spammable aoe, so sages who know this tend to apprecoate a bit of a drop in hp early on before putting up their thick layer of mitigation.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“And while it is always a good idea to communicate when you intend to drop low to use an invulnerability, it is especially important with Barrier Healers. If they blow all of their resources trying to save you when it wasn’t needed, it can mean that they have nothing left for you once your invulnerability wears off.”
THANK YOU. I can’t even begin to tell you how frustrating it is to express this exact sentiment as a Scholar and to just be told that maybe I shouldn’t be spending my resources at the start of an encounter or that I should have zero issues healing them back up to full after the Gunbreaker hits Superbolide after I used Excog, Recitation, and Sacred Soil, as if healing them is the problem and not the fact that my resources are gone for no reason and it could’ve easily been solved by the tank COMMUNICATING and just letting me know that they were going to do that.
Haha, yeah I've had this problem too! The worst part is the only thing you can do is hope that the reason they aren't using anything is because they will invuln, and thats a 50/50 bet, because the other 50% of the time, they aren't using anything, and then they die xD
I trust my healers, but still, I wonder why I die and why I can hardly use living dead despite stating its mechanics
The main core problem with living dead is that it expects a lot more of the healer, and even with a description, the healer might be too focused on your low hp to see what you said! 😅 It is quite problematic and you can only do so much in the moment.
And people usually don't factor in the 1 second delay between using actions
@@cdsbradley or remember that LD's effects has already been altered ages ago.
As a WHM main I have a simple bene macro to signal when I use it, since I use it for extra uptime and not just when the tank gets low
I remember when I was leveling AST, tanks would always yell at me for not healing enough despite the fact that Essential Dignity has 900 potency if you wait for their HP to drop below 30%. This was especially annoying with PLDs who use clemency at 50% HP
Though now that tanks have so many ways to heal themselves I feel like there is much less friction with HP levels
Those are for raids not casual content
@@anteprs7908 What are for raids only?
@@fluffyfang4213 heals tgat only truly should be used when a person is super low that not something that should happen in a normal dung unless the tank is new
@@anteprs7908 Ah. Clemency. Agreed. Though I will admit, even in Savage raiding, seeing the PLD use Clemency means things are going badly :D
@@fluffyfang4213 i was talking about healers instant heals that work when you are super low
As a healer main, tanks for the love of god please understand that 3/4 healers DONT have a gap closer (and the one only has 1 charge on a 45 sec cd) and nothing about a healers kit will help you if you jump from one pack to the next and run away from your healer like you are running away from your problems. Here is to hoping that DT brings more gap closers to healers.
Edit: I would also like to add that running away from you healer also has the added down fall of putting your healer on the back foot and force them to have to play catch-up with the damage going out rather than them staying ahead of it, forcing them to spend precious CD's at the beginning of the fight instead of at the mid or end of a fight. This can also have the added negative of possibly slowing down the run as take for example with a WHM: If a WHM is forced to spend the start of a fight on healing you up that means they arent spending that time on holy spams which are best used at the begining of the fight BEFORE you take lots of damage and it can be difficult to slip into holy spam mid fight and if their ogcd's are already burned that means they have to spend MORE gcd's on healing you. This means LESS dmg going out from the WHM therefore slowing down the run.
A very good point! Burst moving across the way will always lead to the healer falling behind! 😅
wait, some tanks *don't* try to constantly run away from you and you're *supposed* to do damage at the start of the fight instead of trying to catch up to them? Preposterous!
Eh, I disagree. If both tank and healer are competent, they will have sprint on sync, the healer will have regens or shields flowing, and the tank can pull and group the enemies ahead while the healer DOTs each enemy on the way to the wall. I prefer my tanks go as fast as they possibly are able to, using every single gapcloser they have to start grouping enemies ASAP. The tank will NOT be dying by the time you catch up to them, as they will have popped their CDs and will have their healing options available while you take the added 2-3 seconds to catch up.
More often than not, I as healer am the one that's ahead of the tank and half the time taking aggro of the next mob right before they do. This is no issue, if a tank actually is fast in a dungeon, my sprint is always ready for synced use of their sprint, and I'm never far enough behind to be unable to heal them mid-pull.
I very much agree. I avoid using gap closers during a mass pull to avoid getting to far ahead of my healer so they can do what they planned instead on being stuck panicking as everything is suddenly crumbling around them. Learn the general aggro distance and sprint right before you end up 'face pulling' and in most dungeons you will make it to the last pack in a pull before the full 20s sprint duration (when used out of battle) ends. Dont forget the use of self healing for aggro generation if mobs start too spread out for a simple AoE to hit them all or they have a spawning animation (some packs during dungeons like Amaurot or Troia) before you can actually hit them (very useful for PLD clemency usage during pulls or even a WAR equilibrium)
If you're playing with randoms and not friends i don't think you should ever plan to fall low on hp to use the immunity. On avg there are 2 pulls between bosses and you should have enough def abilities to split between these 2 and keep the immunity for the case if the dps are slacking enough to run out of the def abilities.
On the other hand as a healer you should not treat someone else's hp as a resource as their perception is just as important, if tank uses more than needed def abilities (or worse immunity into your full heal wasting immunity) you're making your life harder for the next pull. Tank's only last 1hp matters mentality is true only if tank has trust in you to not let them die and not use their own resources to survive.
It is difficult, because if the tank knows as much about how your job plays as you do, there is equally a possibility the tank is confused why you are trying so hard to keep them at high hp 😅
Ultimately the best you can do is adjust to your group, and see what works best. I've certainly had healers I didn't trust to let me drop low, and healers that seemed to know exactly what they were doing 😊 both cases with randoms!
@@CaetsuChaijiCh It's true that you judge everyone's vibe to decide the approach. But generally if i tank and i drop below 10% hp i'll always use the immunity as even healer's latency could kill me even if they seem trustworthy.
On healer's side i'll keep stuff like benediction as the last oGCD to use which naturally results in tank never falling below 40%. On WHM I don't remember last time i used GCD to heal during a pull, 7 oGCDs plus stuns and regen is so much you most of the time don't even reach for Ben or Bell (and Assize tends to be accidental heal as main goal is dmg). Unless it's a warrior you should never let tank drop below 25% as this is the territory where human mind can ruin your plan (especially you don't test Gunbreakers with full heal as there is nothing more tragic than casting Ben into Superbolide to set hp to 1).
@@WikiED Every tank I know will start self healing at 50% as healers have so many skills in their kits (every tank I know ALSO plays healer) that there is literally no reason for a tank's health to drop super low outside of standing in stupid and vuln stacks that go along with that.
If the healer gets pissy at that (and I have had a few ask in very pissy moods why I cast heals on myself mid pull as a paladin) I laugh and tell them I figured I had to do their job too as they seemed to check out and become a glare mage. Like 3/4th your skills are a heal of some sort...USE THEM.
@Nempo13i sint playing a healer and i agree
First :depend on a dung but being out of mit for boss fight feel WRONG .
Second: second as tank main i find it first INSULTING THAT A HEALER WOULD LET ME GET BELLOW 30% IN CASUAL CONTENT,second i died a ton of time by trusting my healer and most of them savage raiders doing dailys,third for me to press a mit i am unable to press a damage button so that dps lost.
I have said this before to some of my friends and received differing reactions
Everyone who tanks ought to level a healer and vice versa. It's very helpful to know, even at a basic level, what resources each role and job has at their disposal.
I absolutely agree. Having tried every role, including each type of dps, can give a huge amount of insight and help you to play a lot better around your teams strengths and weaknesses as well! 😁
In terms of healer DPS, while playing some current 90 dungeons as a Sage, I can expect to be up to ~45% of the party’s damage depending on the party, but with my equivalently geared static members I’m about even with the higher DPS damage numbers at something averaging ~23% of the party damage.
Not that I would have a way of seeing that or anything.
anytime you're almost half the party damage your dps are slacking badly
An addition to WHM is that they don't have that many damage-neutral healing tools at the start of a dungeon. So they like it when tanks don't need constant attention right at the start. Which leads me to a question. Spend lilies between pulls for the damage and be forced to use GCD healing if the tank needs more healing or keep lilies and actually heal with those? Kind of depends on the group, I guess, but what do you do?
You only toss lilies you know you won't need 😊
If you miscalculate and end up short as a result, you'll probably have to get creative. However in a group reliable enough that you think about tossing lilies in the first place, you probably will have tetra, an extra divine benison, and at least one lily generated during that particular pull itself to work with, which is often enough - at least in my experience!
The key is that the white mage will have to make this calculation in advance, similar to how scholars often prefer to spend their energy drains while chain stratagem is up (which is often long before they get another batch of aetherflow!)
It's about planning! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I tested it extensively. By extensively, I mean once with a group in PF that I felt I could trust to do mechanics. It kind of works, but it still feels weird for someone who spent lilies shortly before being capped out or as needed. I'll get used to to just spamming them between pulls, I suppose.
Bonus for the group above: It was a Warrior that used their cooldowns and Bloodwhetting.
I tend to take the "If I'm not dead, I'm not worrying" approach as tank. I trust in my healers and if I do die, then I just reduce my aggressiveness when it comes to mob pulling.
That is a good way to do it! If your healer has not failed to keep you alive there is no reason to assume they can't manage at least! 😁
So as someone newer to the game and that plays a healer often I find myself sometimes panicking because the tank loses 3/4 of their HP in the span of a single gcd (trash pull not a tank buster). Is there something I'm doing wrong or what because I often find myself needing to spam my big heal non-stop to keep them standing because I'll do the same content with a different tank and barely heal at all. Idk if there is really a question in there but it is so hard to know which situation you're in until it's a problem.
As you say you are a newer player, there can be a few different reasons:
1) in lower level content, you (and your tank) will have less tools to work with, which sometimes can lead to more spiky behavior, and you having to rely on spam healing. This is somewhat normal, especially in really large pulls, which are more commonly available in lower level content for some reason.
2) if the tank is spiking that hard, and it is NOT a super big pull, it is possible they are under geared.
3) if none of the above, then it is possible the tank is not using their defensives smartly. I talk a bit about this in my mirror of this video (tanks from a healers perspective), as it is perfectly possible it is not your fault if you are trying everything you can!
If you are interested, here is a link to that other video: th-cam.com/video/qCR8b6YfAtI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YqawKAmItsbIx6vy
The tanks either aren't using their mitigation skills smartly.
Or you are in Stormblood or below (anything under 70) content in which case mob and boss auto attacks can crit which can lead to unlucky chains where a tank will just get crumpled.
While leveling, people can get under geared which is always noticeable on tanks first and healers second. Keeping geared as a tank will show immediately on their survivability. Healers will notice a huge increase in their heals with a few changes of gear. DPS will notice their numbers spike but the group at large will only notice it taking slightly longer to kill something and otherwise feel no danger so it isn't a big deal.
The most fun I had as a SGE is checking out when I should pop a shield on the DRK (bc DRK wants their TBN)
TBN always takes priority over sage shields, so it'll break first and your shield can stay on for the next big hit (or absorb more damage if it's a really big attack). :D The one tank skill I worry most about is LD, if you miss it going up, you might have already screwed it up for them ^^;;;
Ah, don't worry about the shield.
Now, damage mitigations, on the other hand, will actually fuck with TBN.
This is more general, but when I play tank or healer at the start of a dungeon I like to always check the other's main weapon level to get a sense of how familiar with the job they might be. It's not the be all end all but it's a good baseline to know what to expect before I communicate about big or small pulls.
One important thing about Astrologian, their regen Aspected Benefic has an initial heal attached to it. If your Astrologian likes to apply it to you before pulls, please take note of that and try not to gap-close into the next pack the very instant they do it, otherwise the enemies are gonna see that heal, aggro onto the Astrologian, run right past you, and attack them.
White Mage technically works similarly, but without the initial heal on their regen, you have until the first regen tick to establish enmity on the enemies before they care and try to attack the White Mage.
They changed it. Regen ticks no longer generate aggro. Applying a buff still does, so putting Regen on someone the instant before they engage will grab aggro on the rest of the pack just like AST.
As Fluffyfang said, healing over time generates 0 enmity. However, buff application does generate enmity, which means that if you use Regen or Aspected Benefic (or any other spell or ability that applies any sort of buff in fact) just as the tank pulls, you will generate Enmity. ^^
@@CaetsuChaijiCh That's weird... I never pull aggro with White Mage's Regen but do all the time with Aspected Benefic. Like, I see Regen generate some enmity since the enemies pop up on my list, but the enmity indicators on the enemy list are all green, like the act of me putting Regen on the tank is somehow weighted less than them simply seeing the tank existing.
But the instant I wait a split-second too long to put Aspected Benefic on the tank and they gap-close mid-animation, everything is red and the enemies are rushing past the tank to attack me.
@@HakureiIllusionpossibly you have just always managed to land regen right after the tank's aoe lands, locking all the mobs to them, because regen ticks indeed no longer generate enmity. But you're also not imagining that you draw more enmity on A. Benefic, because while regen TICKS no longer generate enmity, upfront heals that happen on application absolutely still do, because all healing generates aggro. This is functionally the same thing as if you, for whatever reason, decided to spend an afflatus solace on the tank while in range of mobs. It's also likely partly the fact that like damage aggro, the more you do, the more aggro you generate. Because Aspected benefic has that initial upfront heal while regen only has the enmity that results from buff application, it will naturally draw more enmity.
As a side note, healing aggro is amplified by tank stance, which is why when on WAR, I regularly use equilibrium (1200 potency heal and 200 potency regen) like an aoe provoke to double lock the pack after my first aoe, and also to pick up any strays I may have missed with said aoe. It's also an extremely efficient counter to the situation you described, and instantly yanks all mobs right back to me lol
As a long time healer, my main target is always the tank, secondary targets are DPS, cast DOTs where I can if I'm able, and focus on party heals when necessary. Sage I found has more flexibility when it comes to damage output, for example if I cast a crit heal barrier on the tank, I can focus ether on the other party members, or push our my AoE attacks.
As a note and former Scholar main that moved to BLM, barrier healers will generally have shit planned out for about a minute in advance while keeping tools in their back pocket as an answer for shit going wrong. Good barrier healers expect their party to fuck up and plan accordingly
Yeah this sounds about right! 😁 I imagine that kind of mindset sort of matches with black mage as well, although in a different way! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh kind of. Much like a healer, a black mage will treat their hit points as a resource to the point where I will say to healers that I know that the only mechanic that matters is the one that cuts my damage output. Meaning, if the mechanic doesn't one shot me or give me a damage down debuff, I will ignore it and rely on incidental healing to make up for the damage I take.
Similarly, as a Scholar, I don't tend to concern myself with party wide damage that can easily be handled by my fairy simply due to the fact that worrying about it will cut into resources that can be used to keep everyone calm.
Imagine if FFXIV devs actually toon this much time to explain their game to their community. What a wonderful game it could be.
Remember what JoCat said: "The minimum amount of HP a tank needs is 1"
Finaly someone explains the tanks how we do things
Doing it wrong it seem
@@anteprs7908 if you're not spamming holy during trash pulls and using assize on cd as whm you're doing it wrong
@@anteprs7908 99% disagree with you on how a healer should be done.
@@xenomorpher5458 yet in dung 90% ppl do it that way yt comment arent filled with casual players
Think my one bane as a shield healer is Crit chance. I sometimes try to give my tank a strong pre-pull shield just fot crits to fail me several times in a row as we are running to next pull. Some dungeons It is a crit lollapalooza, and other times you'd think I was running around as a Det/Pie healer x.x
Could be coincidence, but crit shields seem to proc way more when tank is at low health. Just suddenly comes in clutch when I have to stop and do a life saving shield and you get to see that absurdly big yellow bar save the day.
@cattysplat i think it is more that you notice it more when it does happen! 😁
@@cattysplat It is more along the line of 'Crits don't happen when I want them to' more than 'they don't seem to happen at all.' I was more or less being facetious rather than being serious. It's like the old idiom of watching paint dry or watching a pot you are waiting to boil. It is inevitable that it will happen, just seems to be less often when expected to happen.
What is a det/pie?
@yornam5391 They are short for Determination and Piety. Attributes in the game FFXIV. The insinuation I was making was to say I felt like a healer prioritizing those stats in my build since critical chance didn't happen when I wanted it to.
I'm still learning how to make use of my invulnerability skills in dungeon packs. I have a macro to let the healer know I want to use it on the next pull. But maybe I should write something more specific.
Announcing you will use it is usually good enough. If the healer doesn't know what to do with the information, they probably wouldn't process a longer explanation in time anyway 😊
Sometimes it just won't work as a result, but it is a lot better to announce it than not!
I appreciate any video that does not use "x healers are reactive, and x healers are proactive" because it's misleading and wrong even on a general situation. Also, the "warn healers before doing Ult things" is for all healers.
I'd also say you under-sold Excogitation. Level cap duties, many pulls can be done with Recitation Excog and nothing else. It's a stupid as hell tool.
Oh excog is insanely effective! The main reason I didn't want to oversell it is because I know Scholar mains that find it unhelpful simply due to how it can end up dudding at times! 😊
99% of the time, as long the party didn't wipe, everything is fine!
i love scholar.
so mutch utility.
and seamingly endless manapool.
rez 7, 2 min later 80% mp.
I find that if intentionally using Benediction as a planned ogcd heal in dungeons, waiting for an hp drop to about 25% and before the next set of enemy autoattacks connect is generally the best use of it.
Something like that should work well yeah! Waiting until the tank is actually about to die is typically too long, especially considering potential latency!
And remember, the number one thing to know about all healer classes- DON'T WALL TO WALL AND DRAG THE TRAIN INTO THE BOSS ROOM IN LOW LEVEL ARR CONTENT. I am always amazed when I see stuff like that. No one has their basic tools in ARR. Hell, monks don't even get the MIDDLE part of their Aoe combo until level 45 (they do, however, get the start and end of the combo- and they have to mix in attacks from the single target to get by). And that doesn't even get into the cruelty of doing this to someone that barely even picked up a healing job and have yet to master the art of menu micro management.
THIS OMFG THIS! One out of every Five tanks tries this crap (particularly in Aurem, Stone Vigil. Cutters Or either of the Ampadors) I finally got sick of hearing Healers Adjust and began shooting back Tanks Die and DPS Respawns.
im surprised you didnt mention critical healing or mitigation- where healing someone off deaths door (20% hp or less) or critical mitigation (using a defensive cd that stops you from dying) builds more limit break. so that "risky" healer thats green-dpsing may just be intentionally building limit
Want to know what builds it faster? They got a response from the devs in Japan and it is hilarious how messed up the thinking is in the west because we have a risk taking culture... If you keep the tank OVER 70% during pulls the limit gauge fills at a noticeable rate. A healer actually healing helps more than a healer DPSing for that gauge. As you use mana it also fills. So using your mana cost casted heals helps the gauge more than waiting till it is critical and using a freebie big heal skill will.
There is a youtube vid out there where a group tested it. Yes, a healer that is obsessively healing and constantly over healing helps the gauge more than a healer that is DPSing or trying to death's door heal does. Direct Hits also help the gauge surprisingly well. Barriers being used up similarly help the gauge a good bit.
The reason I didn't include this is because the amount of limit breaks used in a dungeon tends to be mostly the same, so forcibly generating extra gauge so we can sit at a full gauge sooner wouldn't be worth pursuing anyway 😊
Regardless of whether this is generated by healing from critical or keeping someone topped up 😊
as my old mate told me: everything over 1% hp is good enough.
he was playing main tank but was a main healer in the addon before.
what should i say.... it works :D also some tanks are such drama queens. "50% hp? i use clemency, just in case" - okey. seems like you want to tank AND heal yourself. fine by me. i have at least 2 DD's which are thinking that AOE's are swimmingpools. glad you helped me a little here and there :D
What did i learn as a tank about healers in General: "Everything above 1 HP is Luxury, deal with it."
I gave Scholar a try after getting a lot of practice with White Mage. Was tricky to change my mindset for how it works. People told me that the fairy does most of the healing for you and it's easier than WHM. That was a lie.
Yeaaaah that suggestion that the pet does all the work mainly only applies in lower level content, and especially only if the tank isn't pulling massively! It is a huge switch in thinking between scholar and white mage, given that you plan very differently based on the very different toolkits!
@CaetsuChaijiCh it was Stone Vigil. Not the easiest dungeon to start in.
stone vigil is ass for _any_ healer, because it level syncs to a level juuuust out of range of your best healing tools AND your AoE attacks, so you can't even help to kill things faster. And to add insult to injury, it's the level range where mob damage scales up, so you have more to deal with, with fewer tools. And tanks who haven't done their level 44-46 job quests and picked up their first set of artifact armor and upgraded accessories since like level 5 shred like wet tissue. It's the perfect mix of suckitude.
That said, shield healing in general does need a different mindset, and as a tank main, I've found it helps to think very much like a tank. Just as my mits need to be applied during the cast/early in a trash pull _before_ the damage goes out, so should a shield healer's mits and shield be applied in the same way. You should already be doing this to some extent on WHM: divine benison, aquaveil, and the damage mit portion of temperance are all useless if you pop them _after_ the damage has already gone out. Shield healers just dial that side up some more; the bulk of their work happens before the damage; you don't have to heal, if you prevent the damage from happening in the first place lol.
When I shield heal, I plan and split my mits very similarly to the way I split my mits on tanks: I have two planned sets of cooldowns that I cycle between (since almost all modern dungeons have a 2 wall pulls per boss format), and each set has at least 1 strong mit/shield that I stick on the tank either the moment they're done gathering shit and planted their feet (or after excog has gone off if I had excog up) something with a regen, something to top up with mid-pull when the first set of things have worn off and the tank has hit 50% again, and some other minor mit/shield/regen to put up after that if the pull is still going.
At low levels before you get your actual tools though, it's pretty much gonna just be adlo/physick spam =P
I don’t know if I misunderstood the beginning but generally speaking barrier healers do not do healing over time, pure healers are the ones with healing over time. The heal potencies are roughly similar among all the healers but pure healers get HoT to accompany their heals and barrier healers get barriers to accompany their heals generally. (There are some exceptions ofc like AST getting some barriers through intersection and neutral sect)
SCHs have a constant fairy heal and SGEs have Kardia. They technically do more heal over time than the pure healers during coordinated dungeon pulls.
@@fluffyfang4213 those aren’t HoTs those are bunch of small single heals. You wouldn’t call a DPS’s auto attacks a DoT would you?
@@yolahviing Depends on the job. If someone has to make a conscious effort to maintain it, then it's not really a DoT/HoT anymore. Embrace and Kardia take practically zero effort for the duration they apply for. Therefore, I'd consider them HoTs.
I will say that if a SGE is changing Kardia targets every other GCD or so, then I'd maybe consider that to be a bunch of small single heals.
Sage has Kerachole (500 Potency over 15 seconds), Physis II (650 Potency over 15 seconds) and of course Kardia which actually works on most of the same features that all HoTs do, although that can be considered active healing.
Scholar has Sacred Soil (100 Potency upfront + 500 Potency over 15 seconds), Whispering Dawn (560 Pet Potency over 21 seconds), and of course Embrace which is sort of not really a HoT but is technically equivalent to a permanent Regen on the team.
White Mage has Regen (1500 Potency over 18 seconds, but only one target), Medica 2 (250 + 750 Potency over 15 seconds) and Asylum (800 Potency over 24 seconds)
Astrologian has Aspected Benefic (250 + 1250 Potency over 15 seconds but only one target), Aspected Helios (250 + 750 Potency over 15 seconds), Celestial Opposition (200 + 500 over 15 seconds) and collective Unconscious (500 over 15 seconds assuming the player steps into the dome).
Are you suggesting that Barrier healers are *not* making use of healing over time because they have one less healing over time option than the pure healers? In fact, when played optimally, there is a tendency that Barrier Healers make more use of their Healing over time than the pure healers, simply because the barrier healers have more often access to theirs through oGCDs where the pure healers tend to need to use GCDs. I feel like you are attaching to the wrong idea by trying to put barrier and pure healers in these kinds of boxes when every healer seems to reach across the table to have what the others are having ^^
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I didn’t realize barrier healers get that many HoTs (I still wouldn’t classify pet healing or kardia as a HoT personally but I get they kinda do the same thing so it really doesn’t matter) but I still think that pure healers are more identifiable for their HoTs that barrier healers are so it just came off weird that barrier healers were the ones mentioned as focusing on healing over time effects.
I guess I base it on the generic healing buttons and not the OGCDs, if we take the OGCDs into account things get kinda murky with the designations in the first place as AST has a couple ways to apply barriers as well. The way I’ve always looked at the healers is that their designation is based of the additional effect their generic healing GCDs have added onto them and all the OGCDs are more job identity than role. Plus, according to your message, the potencies for pure healer HoTs seem to be much higher than the ones the barrier healers do get so wouldn’t that mean that they’re more important for the pure healers?
I don’t mean to be rude or abrasive if it’s coming off that way btw I just honestly have never heard anyone associate barrier healers with HoTs before instead of pure healers (this is coming from an AST main who has not played any barrier healers so I’m not super versed in the specifics of barrier healer abilities aside from their general role in raids)
You'll tend to notice with Barrier healers the first pull they play cautious, then if theres no issues you'll notice them start to play chicken with your HP.
I tend to gauge the DPS during the first pull if its good I rely on my passive healing and shields to get through pulls and just dps like crazy.
Whats that? Yes i did just spam that shield for the crit, its my mana dont you judge me!
As WHM main, I actually just pop Medica II at the beginning of a fight, pop my dot on most mobs or just the tankiest ones, and then HOLY SPAM until BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY for OG Holy damage. I'll use Benison throughout, and also otherwise pop HoTs fairly regularly until the fights are over. However, I've definitely been caught off-guard by dungeons that crit for crazy amounts.
I feel like all healers benefit from playing tanks or at least knowing the kit of each tank
Indeed. It actually helps a lot for any role to try the others to get their perspective! 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh So true. When I raided in savage I had to learn every mitigation a dps had so I can yell at them to use those specific abilities so we don’t get 1 shot by the boss >.>
It's hard to tell a good healer from a terrible healer up until the last second. Where the good healer will top you up just as keikaku and the bad healer is just starting to cast Cure II.
Or at least that was the conclusion we got with a friend back in SB/early ShB. I guess things may have changed since then, but I've been healing since then so haven't had to think about it.
What could this healer possibly have to do that's more important than healing?
Watching the no thoughts head empty yoshi video.
This is actually an interesting counterbalance to the same thing I said about tanks from a healers perspective: Not using cooldowns to fall into the danger zone to get more value out of your invulns look exactly the same as a tank that doesn't know what they are doing. From that exact same logic, as you say, a healer who is letting the tank drop low to then heal them in bigger bursts, looks exactly the same as a healer who forgot to heal in the first place! ^^'
Great video! Thankfully I haven’t experienced anyone running away from aetherpact. Maybe because it looks less menacing that dragoon’s old tether lol
Thank you!
That could be! Besides, these days it is almost impossible to escape the aether pact, so the advice here is actually more just for the tank players to not waste time! 😂
Am I like... one of the few white mages that heals obsessively if anyone is missing any HP or insta resurrects if even one person dies no matter who it is...?
no there's an obnoxious number of healbot whms
@@TheGhostFart Dps craven tanks forget the purpose of a healer is to heal. Dps is when we're between healing the Dps for jumping in the spilled orange juice. If your running a warrior then most healers just leave you alone until your dropping below their safety limit. I've had tanks bitch i tossed out a rez on a DPS because they fell in battle due to sliding off the arena. Heals first DPS second. The white mage hate is hugely around either over healing or Holy spamming. This is why i am building up a greater refusal to contuine doing end content. After eighty people get much more obnoxious. Not even worth it half the time. Why heal when i could just live the easy life of DPSing.
I main a 90 scholar in end game content,i usually let my fairy do alot of the work and with aerherstacks i got an instant heal also dont think ive ever had a tank die on me lol actually the other night in expert 90 dungeons i had a dark knight that never needed healing they were juiced and had base 132k hp lol and self healed between my fairy and there self heal i was just a 3rd dps 😂😂
Unless I missed it you didn't mention benediction on WHM, which is a bit weird considering you did mention essential dignity on AST, with both encouraging the healer to let the tank drop as low as possible before healing them
I mention benediction at 5:50 and I feel a majority of the white mage explanation revolves around this tendency to let the tank drop low as well 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiChyeah I missed it sorry
@tcoren1 no worries! 😊
Let me say as a Sage main I don't even like to let the tank get lower than 3/4ths hp. I don't care that some tanks can keep from dying they aren't going to get low enough to need those skills anyways. I use to have the mentality to allow tanks to have mini heart attacks knowing they could pop their pause death buttons but after enough times of sitting there wondering why the tank isn't popping their 'I am a god' button and then visiting the afterlife momentarily I have decided that I can't trust them enough so I am going to bitch slap them with all the shields and make sure they are fat on health.
Sage is pretty amazing as a tank healer. I'm always end up being the delicated tank healer during raids or if tank is MT on alliance raid.
SGE is a little different because none of the kit is conducive to easily healing up from 30%. The bulk of a SGE's kit is mitigation and shields, all of which are only useful in _preventing_ damage from happening in the first place. What few burst heals they have are tiny in comparison to what the other healers have, even SCH, as the other shield healer, has excog on a 40s cooldown and so will want to do some measure of yo-yo-ing with a tank's HP to make efficient use of their kit. SGE is the one healer who has nothing like that (closest is a soteria+zoe-pneuma I guess?), and their playstyle is very much control right from the get go.
@jessw2268 while yes a sage should control from the get go I have been in dungeons where for one reason or another I had to take attention off the tank for a dps here and there. For whatever reason they would suddenly drop to near death. My guess is they stood where they shouldn't have. In just the couple seconds to top the dps off the tank/s would start dropping. Moments like those don't happen often but when they do things stand out like a tank not popping their abilities to survive.
Speaking as a sprout who came from mobas: tanking feels incredibly good in this game. Most of the time, I can just walk into a pack and trust my healers to keep me alive. The only time I’ve ever gotten close to dying in a dungeon so far was when my healer started looting mid pull. Thaaaaat made me nervous
As a Warrior, I both love and hate tanking with WHMs. I have no braincells and I must use Bloodletting on cooldown, and overlapping it with Holy Stun is annoying. And obviously, i shouldnt be asking the WHM to delay his AOE so my fucking cooldown can work lol
Nah, I just gotta activate one of my two neurons and remember to delay Bloodletting for like, 6 seconds.
Lol look on the bright side, at least you don't lose dps by wasting BW like that. Pity the DRKs who also smooth-brain insta-popped tbn. That shit costs mp, and you don't get the free refunded attack if that shield doesn't pop in time =P
Personally, I also delay BW with all healers, because the heal from hitting a full pack of mobs is so strong, it is functionally a benediction on a 25% cooldown. This means that unlike all the other tanks, best way of rolling mits on WAR is to not pop anything at all after planting feet, wait until you're sub-50% hp, then Bloodwhetting to insta-heal to full, THEN use other cooldowns. If you're with a healer whom you know won't panic heal you in response, you can let yourself drop to 30%, or hell, holmgang. Think more like a WHM! Play yo-yo with your own HP!
My first healer was Scholar, which I played to 90 before trying any other healer seriously. I came to a realization: barrier healers are for the type of people who still have faith in their fellow FFXIV players, who believe the tank won't need saving every single pull because they use their mitigation correctly. Pure healers are for when you've given up and embraced the chaos, knowing you can save them no matter how few of their buttons they press.
As a Tank Main, I don't expect my healers to heal me, I'm for the most part self sustained. If anything the less healing they do the better, as long as the group is sustained.
You a warrior i guess
That works for Warrior but it does not work as for example Dark knight.
Greater than 40%: I am the invincible god of this video game.
Below 40%: HALP!