6 Great Tips for Mastering Tanking in FFXIV!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2024
- Here are 6 detailed tips for getting better at playing tanks in FFXIV! In some cases you can probably apply the tips more broadly to other jobs too! Even if you don't play Tanks, you may find knowing these tips helpful for understanding how another player might think!
If you found this video inspiring and now want to start playing a Tank yourself, you could watch my Tank Comparison to get a feel for what you want to try out first:
• FFXIV Tank Comparison!...
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Music Used:
FFXIV Endwalker - Cradle of Hope
#ffxiv #endwalker
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:18 1.a Before the Pull
01:22 1.b The Actual Pull
02:58 1.c How much to Pull and When to Stop
04:55 2.a Positioning in large pulls
05:59 2.b Positioning in Boss Fights
07:04 3.a Defensive Cooldown Cycling: The Math
08:30 3.b Example Defensive Order
10:03 3.c Job Specific Advice
11:09 4.a Co-Tanking: Whos Main Tank, what does that mean?
12:16 4.b What can the Off-Tank do to help?
13:13 5. All About Limit Breaks
14:53 6.a Playing to SURVIVE
15:44 6.b Kiting to survive longer
16:14 6.c What to do When Your Group Pulls FOR You
17.41 Fun Fact - เกม
![[FFXIV] How Tanks Work But From a Healer's Perspective](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qCR8b6YfAtI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[FFXIV] How Tanks Work But From a Healer's Perspective](/img/tr.png)
![[FFXIV] How Healers Work But From a Tank's Perspective](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PNhWwTHjXCU/mqdefault.jpg)
and remember to shirk to your dps or healer before a tankbuster! those hurt and you dont want to hurt!
Haha 😂
You know, it is a good thing sometimes it only transfers 25% enmity! 😁
😂😂😂
Don't do this 😂
If you're a healer don't forget to rescue the tank so tankbusters can be shared around, everyone should suffer together
always remember to shirk to that one ranged dps in your static if they walk into the mechanic 1 too many times getting distracted by their own maid dress. watching them getting torn limb from limb ;) will usually improve morale because it is objectively very funny.
The more you know about a raid or dungeon, the easier it is to tank, so the more you tank, the simpler it gets.
This is great advice! And an important part is also that while you can learn some things by watching others tank, the best way to learn is to do it yourself!
this the first run on Satasha was with abunch of people leveling other classes and they hated me 5 runs in and I'm pulling everything clearing fast ahaha
Might have been said before, but some more tips
- Play other roles. I mainly play tank but watching other tanks helps with tanking strategies. Keep note of things you like to see a tank doing as a DPS and Healer
- If you feel uncomfortable with big pulls say something, but If your healer says they got your back don't be scared to at least try.
- Don't be afraid to wipe. if it happens, it happens just try to learn from it. It's a free CD refresh so not all bad 🤷🏿♂
- Keep your gear up to date, important for all roles but really important for tanks.
- Last but not least, you are the Tank not the MC of the party. Everybody in the party is important, so don't let your pride get in the way of getting stuff done.
Very great tips! Thank you for adding them!
Indeed, to improve and truly master any role, you need to see others play it, too!
Came to say this. Switching from tank back to my other jobs gave me the opportunity to observe what works (and doesn't!) for other tanks.
Conversely, play healer. Knowing what the healer can and cannot do and how your mistakes as a tank impact the healer from first hand experience is valuable for a tank and vice versa.
I agree 100% with playing other roles. In my experience, the worst tanks are the ones who *only* tank - they have no idea what the healer or DPS want, nor have been exposed to how other people tank.
@tsbulmer that is a great way to put it! 😄👍
I prefer opening the first pull with Rampart instead of the 30% as everyone will have their 2min to burst stuff down quicker. Rampart usually comes back shortly after your 30% wears off in the 2nd pull where stuff usually takes longer to die. Also start with WAR if you're new. Once you get Raw Intuition, and become basically immortal, nothing scares you anymore.
Planning out your cooldowns can vary a lot from person to person. The general advice of using stronger cooldowns first stems from the fact that it means the stronger cooldown will be ready again sooner. But honestly the order isn't crucially important as long as you split them up. Sometimes the first pull is so overwhelmingly stronger than the second that you'd rather have the stronger defensive for that reason alone too!
Starting with warrior is a very good option, but having a tool as powerful as Raw Intuition may also teach you bad habits that causes you to never really learn how to use many of your other cooldowns due to its power! However, that of course depends on the player, too!
Additional for the shuffle/stutter stepping a pack to keep them tightly clumped up: your ninjas and summoners will love you if you keep stuttering around their ground dot. Mobs will naturally drift apart but when pulling they can be stacked on top of each other.
As for bloodwhetting and warrior their health bar is a resource that should be used up before popping BW, but as you're doing roulettes with randoms the healer just can't know if you suck at your job or are playing optimally. So letting them know about it should be considered good etiquette. This problem of course vanishes if you're playing with a friend who already knows.
Very good points!
Generally I just recommend using bloodwhetting extremely aggressively because in most cases the packs will be dead around the time your second bloodwhetting rolls around anyway. 😊 But if you communicate with the healer, you can certainly wait till you're low hp! 😁
One thing is that while you don’t want to *fight* your Co-Tank for the aggro lead, it is generally a good idea to be in a comfortable second place. So while you might not want to start with your stance on, even when co-tanking light it up after a couple of rotations. The difference in Emnity will be high enough you shouldn’t be in danger of ripping it from the other one, but it also will let you climb the latter and push the DPS and Healers behind you. Which can be really important in more difficult content that is expecting two tanks or for whenever your co-tank or you mess up and they drop. (It happens and it isn’t always their fault or the healers fault.)
Seeing them go down sucks, but not having a boss beat the shit out of the black mage for up to fifteen seconds while you climb the ladder is a better situation to be in all around.
A very good point! Personally I turn on my tank stance after the initial burst, so that the main tank has a big chunky lead! Typically I manage the tank stance and turn it off again if I get too close, which can sometimes happen, but generally, having a strong lead over the dps and healers is very nice just in case the main tank dies - - or the tank buster happens to target based on enmity, and targets 2, which sometimes is the case!
I'm confused, if the main tank dies, when is it not his fault or the healer's??
@pointlessmike if the dps isn't doing enough damage in a large aoe pull, it is perfectly possible for the tank and healer to run out of resources before the pack has been dealt with 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh In this case he's talking about trials, not dungeons though
@pointlessmike oh my bad 😅
Right, there are a very select few casual fights where a tank switch is flat out required unless the group has absolutely incredible damage output. In those situations, the main tank could die without themselves or the healers being to blame 🤔
A specific example, although a normal raid and not a trial, would be cuff of the son where both brawler and vortexer are perfectly capable of one shotting a tank in somewhat quick succession given the right circumstances if you don't bother tank switching.
But this kind of scenario is rare in casual content! In savage content, if the tank switch isn't done when required it's obvious who would be to blame I imagine 😂
Active content creator, well thought out videos, helpful and aware of game meta without bowing to its altar. I think you earned my sub.
Thank you so much! I appreciate it! And I like that description too 😄😁
Showing so much of Pharos Sirius during your tips on pulls is probably more of a subtle genius editing move than most people will catch onto. That first pull was bad enough back when we were still in 2.x but these days? With the mindless sprint W2W pulls people do because "that's just how things are done" combined with all the abilities lost due to level sync and people's lack of knowledge about that dungeon, it's not all that surprising parties wipe more these days in that dungeon then back in 2.x. Getting this on the 50/60/70/80 roulette can trigger a panic attack for my WHM heart because (1) my best spells at this level are regens and my HW abilities are so close but out of reach, and (2) the odds that people remember the pulls and the dungeon mechanics are vanishingly small. Thanks for another great video! Your tips videos are like the mortar that fills in the content missed by other content creators who focus on the big bricks of information.
Thank you so much!
Yes actually I specifically choose Pharos Sirius for a lot of demonstrations because it has a bit of everything! Difficult pulls that always warrant proper defensive cooldown usage, things to interrupt, things worth stunning!
Again, thank you for the very kind words, it makes me really happy to hear that!
so glad you uploaded this. just got a sub again and started a new character on NA servers and am trying out tank now that i dont have to worry about latency. hopefully i can tank well!
That's awesome! 😄 I do hope you end up enjoying tanking in that case, Maagotto! 😊
Lord thank you for a calm easy explanation of why YPTP is not worth defending. Basically guarantees that you're GOING to struggle with the pull without them, instead of making an attempt.
Exactly 😁 I am glad to hear that you agree! 😄
first the Materia Video now i find a Great Tanking Guide from you...
Even i as Tank Main learned tricks here, espacially 2a Positioning in Mob Pulls. I always stay put for my meele DPS and never thought to move a little so all enemys cluster up :o
6c What to do when your group pulls for you: very good explanation of what one should do. I love that you didnt just said "deal with it" or "git gud" or something like that, what many other guides tell you, but give good ideas and even a way to dont see a non tank pull as ill or toxic behavior... sadly the truth is that there are people who will give a shit about how one thinks about tanking... for these its w2w or report/exclude from duty... or even bullying and hatespeech... bcs pulling only 1-2 packs is too slow for them.
But yeah the video is overall just so great and lovely done ❤
Thank you, Sharow!
It is true there are some really bad eggs, and the best you can do in those situations tends to be to report them after the fact if they go to far 😥
On a more positive note, I am very glad you learned some new tricks from the guide even as a tank main! 😄
Your last point is so important. Having the right mindset makes a huge difference in life. It’s difficult, but reframing something that can be very frustrating into an opportunity for growth is a very beneficial skill
Just started the game and this video made me understand a lot of things I needed since I plan on tanking most of the time. Tyvm
That's awesome! Welcome to Eorzea and I hope you enjoy your journey! 😄
Thank you, I need this for practicing my tanking skill
Awesome! I am sure you will do great! 😄
Nahhhh, first a awesome 50lvl guide SAM and now this awesome guide to take my tankxiety away, well done. Have my like again and now my sub my good sir, you're doing some gods work with your guides to me. Thank you and god bless.
Thank you so much, Wemerson Silva! I really do appreciate it! :D
A little late to the party here but I somewhat recently just really started to play and chose a tank role, so this has been pretty helpful on a bunch of points.
Mentioning the pulls and that sometimes it's okay to start slower was simply a nice thing to hear, as sometimes the pressure of performing for others can really get you.
Specifically for Warriors - using Bloodwhetting more frequently is something I hadn't really considered for some reason, even though the cooldown is so short and can easily be bridged with so many other things. I started to use it a lot more often (or Nascent Flesh in boss fights repsectively) to a point where it took an incredible amount of pressure off, that I talked myself into.
There's been more great points but those two really stuck out to me and had helped me in today's journey. The lower level sections were a bit "easier" but now being level 87 and certain skills being needed more frequently than before made me almost go for the classic "maybe I should stick to DPS" thoughts.
So thanks a ton for this, I'll be checking out more of the other videos. I've watched a few and I like the way you explain things a lot!
Thank you so much for the kind words!
I'm glad my guide helped you find the confidence to stick with tanking! 😁
as a gunbreaker i usually save 1 cartridge for fated circle to hit a pack with while running through and doing a pull, this usually gives me enough aggro to get to the end of short / medium paths without losing aggro, as for the not spending too long at a group if you plan to pull more is a per team basis, there were times in the past where if i stopped at all to attack everyone would start laying down all their stationaries.
That is a good tip, and often it can be enough!
And you are absolutely right some groups are very trigger happy with their stationaries 😅 it can be difficult, which is also why when I do my ranged pulling, I try to always continue running as I do it, to avoid the group thinking we are stopped!
Thank you for this guide! I'm still getting the hang of tanking fundamentals (and have yet to ever pull more than one pack, albeit partially because I'm experiencing these dungeons for the first time), so this guide will help me know what the heck I should be doing.
I'm glad my guide can help you on your journey! I am sure you will get much better and more confident with more practice! ^^ It is perfectly understandable to pull carefully when doing a dungeon for the first time!
Thanks!
Also I cleared ARR's MSQ today and got into a Full Party for the first time during the Primal rematches (I know the endgame duties were originally Full Party until the rework turned them into Light Party or solo duties). I was able to follow your advice on how to be the off-tank, since the other tank activated their stance first since they weren't stuck in the cutscene, and I think it helped. Thank you for that!
Thanks man your guides are just insanely good. I’m leveling DK right now and love it. Scholars struggle to heal me though lol. I’m only on level 50s. It’s odd because I wateched scholar guides and I started healing big pulls no problems. Now everytime I have a scholar it’s going to be a wipe 9/10 times on a big pull.
Thank you!
I don't know why specifically scholars would have issue, but it is a job that especially in lower levels often can rely a bit too much on the pet for healing, so when a tank actually puts them to the test, they might not really know what to do! 😅
@@CaetsuChaijiCh I see alot of them casting physick
I'm a newbie tank (usually drawn to healer and ranged dps jobs) and still make a lot of mistakes... your videos are a great help!
it's funny when the healer is way more comfortable than I am. When I started running dungeons more regularly, I had one literally drag me to the next enemy group with a rescue. But in their defense, when I dared to pull more, they did a splendid job of keeping everyone alive and were overall really pleasant.
It can be scary when the healer is a bit too enthusiastic, but I am glad it ended well! I'm glad it sounds like your tanking journey is going well! 😄
I’m going to go to bat for the Tank Limit Break: Yes it flat out worse than the Limit Break 3 for other roles, but if you’re in a duty finder with a bunch of randoms who are struggling with dodging the boss mechanics or your party is practically on the brink of victory but find themselves out of position and unable to safely avoid a boss’ big attack that boost in Defense can be what pushes you over the edge of victory.
I just got done with the Alexander raids, and the tips in this guide helped me a lot. Thank you!
I have one small question about positioning, though. If the boss has an attack where they end up going to another corner of the arena and stay there for a while (e.g. A12's combo that starts with a stack marker), should the MT run over to that corner and try to get behind them quickly, or just stay where the boss used to be and wait for them to walk back over?
I'd recommend trying to position around where the boss decides to go! It's typically a bad idea to just stand and wait! 😊 But in fairness each fight is unique so sometimes you just have to decide on your feet! 😁 The important part is doing what seems to make most sense for everyone!
I am a simple man: Wall to Wall or not at all... unless I have to adjust down because my healer wants to be a Cure 1 mage in Vanaspati
And a friendly reminder that "You pull, you tank" is against ToS.
I just started getting into tanking, so this video came at the perfect time.
I hope you have fun with learning and mastering tanking! 😊
I wish you the best on your tank journey. Pull many and rejoice!
Im super afraid to tank... my first experience in satasha was... toxic and disheartening to say the least... but this guide was actully helpful and making me think i wanna try tanking again ^.^
I'm sorry your first dungeon was a bad experience 😞 MOST players are okay with taking it slower if you mention that you are new to the role, so hopefully your next go is better 😊
I am certain you can do it!
Thank you for sharing this with me! 😄
There are some awful players out there that expect everything to run completely smoothly and allow absolutely no learning or even fun to take place. If you run into a toxic player like that, just leave and let them yell at another tank. Keep on trying, queuing, learning from nice players, and ignore the others. You'll do great.
Tanking for npcs is the best form of tanking no more anxiety lol
It is an excellent way to build up confidence in the role! 😁
I usually go for the AoE attack for dungeon pulls, but I try to swing 2 of them before running to the next. It’s a bit tricky on console to switch targets for a weave(or maybe I just have dumb fingers 😂) If I don’t get all enemies with both swings, I usually get them back quickly with AoE spam at the end of pull, or with a ranged attack if they’re latched onto a Black Mage who decided to plant their feet in the far corner of Siberia
Yeah I could imagine target switching like that might be harder on a controller 😅
The black mage example is funny and very real 😅😂
Do you slip in damage rotations between defensive when in a party? I'm new to FF tanking. X)
Depends on the tank!
Since using defensives can be vital for survival they often take priority over offensive cooldowns. But played well, you should have planned out the order so that you don't trip over yourself trying to use too many things at once! 😊
Paladin and warrior have less offensive abilities (ogcds) so they typically have an easier time finding space to shove in a defensive where needed!
Tank LB can save a run if you’ve got good awareness. For example I play healer as main but was tanking Nidhogg EX Mine. We were a person short on the third Ahk Morn and low on heals. Tank LB3 saved the run and we got the clear. If you believe the party may die to damage to an up coming mechanic, use tank lb.
Just gonna put this here But your Invuln Skill IS USEFUL in Trash Mob Pulls... It works like your other mitigation... Don't forget the only useless ability is one you don't ever use... Plus your invuln means you need less healing and healer can do more damage...
This is absolutely true, and an even more effective way to use it is to announce that you will use invuln before a pack, so the healer can plan around it better 😊
But less skilled players will find having an invuln as a panic button to keep for emergencies reassuring 😊 once they feel comfortable using invulns aggressively I am sure they will 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh lol bully the mobs... pld invuln... then at 3-6 seconds arms length to apply that slow effect...
Recently My raid group has been experimenting with my paladin on cocystus Savage and avoiding a particular attack...
I have only just started a tank and i find it daunting especially on pad not enoigh buttons for your skills so its tricky having to swap between 2 bars of skills.
I can imagine 😅 unfortunately I think all roles will run into these issues since most jobs get a lot of actions 😅
@CaetsuChaijiCh true I have 2 hitbars set up it's just remembering what skills are where so I don't have to keep looking at them for my skills.
As someone who also plays on controller I'd like to point out theres a setting that allow you to hold both triggers to acess a second cross hotbar (hold left and then hold right at the same time for left side of the secondary hotbar and vice versa
@7ThShade yeah I tried that but I couldn't get it to work properly so have found a setup of skills that works just gotta click r1 and k iw where they are set. But it's pretty much I have action skills on the square, circle, x and triangle buttons and cooldowns and the huff type skills on the dead buttons so when I swap bars I don't get confused with my hands so much amd find it works out pretty good for me.
Hi, I have a question, So I got the “Shadowbringers” only, and I’m stuck at lvl 80, I have to buy endwalker too if I wanna get lvl 90? Please explain
Yes that is correct. Endwalker is required to progress beyond level 80. :)
1 year in and all tanks beyond level 70 and I'm still anxious about tanking, had lots of bad experiences when tanking
I'm especially afraid go get the burn, ghimlyt, or Amaurot, or that specific level 90 dungeons before the end of endwalker, in roulettes
Sometimes the anxiety of doing something like tanking never goes away. I am sure it stems from wanting to do a good job 😊
The Burn, Ghimlyt Dark, Amaurot and Dead Ends are all surprisingly difficult dungeons, so I understand why you would feel that way, too!
Remember, all you can do is try your best, and if your group is mean about it if you make a mistake, then thats their problem! 😊
I need the practice of use the LB3 and the conclusion B for the point 6c is ridiculously optimistic, but I get your point and that's happened to me a few times, but with healers telling me to wall to wall dungeons like mt.gulg
Just recently I did Mt. Gulg with a sprout healer, asked them about mega pull. They were uncertain. I said "worst that can happen is we wipe", and then we did it perfectly fine 😁
I know it's ridiculously optimistic, but it's better than the alternative 😊
Regarding LB3, I think I only have the LB button on a hot key for one of my tanks, so the hard part is learning what fights require it! 😄
mt. gulg is a pretty chill dungeon to w2w, healed for it in multiple occasions as a relatively newbie sage and did fine
honestly, beyond lvl 60 I don't think there's any dungeon you can't just w2w to the end
Just to be clear, the first pull of Mt. Gulg can be up to four or five packs if you wall to wall pull it. But the apparent walls are at every 2 packs or so, so that naturally causes a lot of groups to only pull two packs not knowing they can keep going.
The last part of Mt. Gulg also involves a walk way with three packs, two of which with unique raid wide damage mechanics and things like that.
For both if these, some players are more confident in their healing, even just starting, but I think it is reasonable to say both of these wall to wall pulls are considered very hard 🙂
Claiming something difficult is easy downplays the value of your achievement, it is better to view it as difficult and see the value in your ability, even when you just started playing sage! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh i only know your example in A12 and seat of sacrifice but in A12 you have a timer
@@june_005 well time to time the w2w of the begining and end of mt gulg give me anxiety like tank or healer but I already manage better than when I started playing a year ago, and that is thanks to play all jobs and cae help
your 30 % mitigation is fine of your dps is good but generally i get into lots of instances where the overall dps is bad so using rampart forst can let you cycle through.
so with gunbreaker i open heart of corundum. then rampart.
then camouflage + reprisal
heart of corundum on cooldown.
if the dps is still bad i arms length. and as a last resort on that first pull i use nebula.
but sometimes the dps is good enough where i will have nebula and arms length so next pull i can open with heart.
then nebula then arms length and by then my rampart will be ready to cycle through. sometimes if the damage is soo good though i only need rampart and heart for first pull. which in that case i can start next pull with heart then camouflage.
Gunbreaker is an interesting tank regarding cooldown cycling, as camouflage adds so much extra defensives that should a fight really drag out this much, if you open with shorter ones like rampart, then you can actually keep defensives rolling for long enough that they will become ready again in time! Which is very powerful when you need it, and I used to recommend cycling based on this 😊
The reason I recommend using 30% first is because using it earlier of course lets you use it again sooner. And unless your group is absolutely terrible (not just kind of bad), by the time you are through 30% and maybe reprisal, and things like heart of corundum, there's only a few mobs left and you can survive their damage with no cooldown 😊
But the most important thing about cooldown cycling is more that you do it, than precisely what order you use the cooldowns in, and I just suggest an order for those that want one 😁
1. Food is a crutch
2. Melds are a waste of money
3. If the second or third steps of your combo look cooler skip the steps before to get to the good part faster, and if your aoe rotation doesn’t look as good as single target ignore it completely
4. Enmity stance is for babies who can’t out-damage their dps
5. Save defensive cooldowns for emergencies, 20% hp or less is a good threshold to start popping all of them at once
6. Melees have true north so boss positioning doesn’t matter at all
Uhhhh is this a "wrong answers only" situation? 🤣
@@CaetsuChaijiCh the ‘food is a crutch’ part i actually heard completely unironically from someone in pf, so to some these could be considered perfectly viable.
@chrisfuerte1622 oh dear 🤣
@@chrisfuerte1622 Reminds me of progging Rubicante (extreme) (And a milder situation in Savage content, too): Had someone refusing to use buff Food in prog because it's "unneccessary". After people asking him to use it and telling him that the extra HP is pretty useful for maybe surviving a bit longer and making progging easier & faster, he responded with "Just play the mechanics correctly" - in a prog party.... Definitely an easy solution to just not get hit if you don't know the mechanics or need to practice them because you're not good at them lol
4:46 I feel like this is the most important thing to remember for not only new Tanks, but players who forget to be considerate of their party members. Wall-to-wall pulls are not required--they simply come with experience. I see too many people treating it like an absolute standard without regard to new players' skill level or comfort zone, despite the fact, that new players *are* an absolute standard.
12:09 While MTing bosses, I often find using Sheltron/Holy Sheltron, The Blackest Night, Heart of Stone/Heart of Corrundum, and Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting is *usually* enough to handle most tank busters (with some harder-hitting exceptions), but I won't disagree with using other GCDs--it's not like you'll need to save them for pulls in trials or NRs afterwards.
17:24 I'm not going to sit here and pretend a Healer/DPS pulled out of concern for the Tank's learning benefit. I understand trying to keep a positive attitude and want to have fun as much as anyone else, and while it doesn't affect me personally anymore as I'm confident in my tanking (or have been subjected to it enough to the point of jaded compliance) enough to deal with it--I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me watching the sprouts in my FC go through that same shit. It's not respect for anyone's skill level--not concern for anyone's growth--it's impatience. So I'm not too concerned if they're fond of me by the end of the dungeon--I'd take their U-Leave over a Commendation... if I were a lesser Tank anyway. It's a shame I'm good at what I do.
Indeed! What worries me the most with wall to wall pulls as the standard is that many of the first dungeons a player is met with, doing that is not always smart! (for instance you can technically pull everything up to the first boss in sastasha!)
In most normal content just using the short cooldown is plenty as you say, but if you have an extra to spare, it isn't a bad idea to add it! It's also worth considering in Harder content where multiple cooldowns might actually be necessary to survive! 😊
You are right that obviously the guy pulling for you is mainly doing it out of impatience. But they wouldn't pull it if they didn't genuinely believe the group can take it (even if the measuring method they used for that is "I want to finish sooner so they better be able to deal" 😂). Anyway, it still presents a learning opportunity for the tank player, if unintentional from the person pulling😊
And the part about caring if they like you is more if the dungeon requires any semblance of team work later down the line, but I get what you mean 😁
I just saw some players arguing last night about that lol one was defending inexperienced players, the other was being a total ass
@CaetsuChaijiCh What do you think of people pulling when the Tank doesn't like to pull more (wether they just don't want or even are not able to)?
Personally, when playing Tank, I always wait for the group to arrive before starting a w2w afterwards. If DDs get aggro a split second before me or while pulling, I'll take these as they come. But if someone pulls willingly while half of the party is not there or about to arrive, I'll let them run and maybe die if they don't come back, asking them not to and to wait until everyone is ready. If the Party is about to arrive, I'll most likely start about the same time or run along while the healer is just a little behind
It depends on the situation. Remember, a dungeon is a shared objective, and just because the tank doesn't like pulling big, doesn't mean the rest of the group can't have their vote heard 😊
That's why my advice on the subject is consider doing something else if the group fails at pulling big. But otherwise, try to learn from pulling big 😊
I don't really get the specific scenario you describe much do I don't really think much about it. I would probably try and help the dps and then run back towards my team 😅
One thing a DPS once said to me about The Blackest Night was, that I shouldn't use it alongside my Shadow Wall or Rampart. This is probably because there's a chance it won't wear off before its timer ends, and you don't get the free Flood of Shadow/Edge of Shadow. My reaction was maybe a little rude, because I said "Don't tell me how to tank", but I have always felt using a short cooldown alongside longer cooldowns whenever possible, including TBN, is better overall. The longer I can make use of the barrier, the better. It's not that big of a deal, if you don't get the free Flood of Shadow/Edge of Shadow, it can maybe be a slight loss in damage, but dealing damage is not the tank's main job.
I believe the reason for the "don't use TBN with other defensives" is related to boss fights, because once you know how much an attack does, you know whether you need more than TBN for a big attack☺️
i usually goes wt strat #2 since when running dungeon, I seems to pair up wt sprout healers or dps, and they usually cant keep up wt w2w pulling. But when I dont see any sprouts... then, I will pull all the way. I realise this is a nescessity since after I lvl up healer job & play dps for awhile... w2w pulling really is scary. especially if you're playing healer. so i understand a bit more on how much pulling i should do when running dungeon. As I usually does, I tested my party...in my head. " A test of your reflexes" and give them the w2w pull. if they can manage that 1st test... then I go wt strat #1 all the way.🤣
That is a very healthy approach to it! My typical strategy is to pull a bit more aggressively unless the healer outright requests less at the start. If we wipe, then we can adjust as necessary
It does depend on the dungeon though, many of the ARR dungeons I wouldn't want to do the full w2w simply because most healers can't handle it anyway! 😅
These certainly are great tips!
I'm glad to hear that, Chris! 😁 Thank you!
Appreciate it. Auto-generated CC is wonky at some points but easy to take an educated guess :)
Now if I can get rid of that stupid tankxiety..
I'm glad to hear that! 😊
I do have a video on the subject of tankxiety as well, although you may have already seen that one!
There are many different ways people tackle it, and just to name some, is that even considering to watch a guide like this is likely to suggest you are going to be above average at the role, so there should be nothing to fear 😅 unfortunately most of the rest is about building experience!
do I get more dmg as tank when i turn my back towards the enemys like with legacy camera mode and I walk away to pull more enemys?
Excellent question! No, you take the same amount of damage from all directions! In fact, you can parry equally well from all directions, and paladins can block attacks from any direction too!
The main motivation in getting all the enemies in front of you is mostly an issue once you reach your destination, and it is about them all being clumped close together for the rest of the group to hit them more easily! 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh oh thank you so much for the very fast answer, new to ff14 and completly new to tanking, thought gonna try something completly new this time :)
I'm glad I could help you! It is certainly not an obvious thing about tanking! 😊
I hope you enjoy the role! 😄
I'm still new to the game and once tried to help by using provoke when the other tank was at a sliver of HP and only got flamed for it in shout chat...
Always felt playing through ARR like the healer was always someone just leveling off jobs and trying to speedrun everything, pulling every pack and ignoring when people where watching cutscenes. They make playing content for the first time so unfun that I duty support every chance I get. They can die alone, I aint saving them.
The healer example is unfortunate. I don't see this happen much myself, but it SHOULD be rare at least 😕
If you let the group know you are new it tends to make them more likely to wait (because the sprout icon is not always enough of an indicator. Could be your second character)
For the tank case, that's another unlucky incident. Most of the time this shouldn't happen, however if you provoked to help, and the boss then starts positioning weird as a result I could imagine why. Not that that would make it okay
Target switching is extremely hard to pull off that accurately on Controller play especially if you are moving, thus the Pull strat is not Ideal for everyone playing tank, the game literally teaches you basics for tanking in the Hall of Novice, as long as you follow those teachings for most dungeons Tanking will be a breeze unless you get a Healer or DPS that don't know what they're doing, it's rare but it does happen and if you tank long enough or play those roles as well you can tell when someone doesn't know what they're doing. If you're not tanking and a mob in the pull aggros on you because the tank lost it simply run up to the tank provided they haven't forgotten their tank stance, it will happen, if the tank is using their AOEs in a pull instead of single target skills they should easily get aggro again
Step 1'
"you're him"
Tip number 0:
"oh by the way, that's you! You are the tank!"
1:53 - Don't waste your time with this. Ranged attack 1 mob, pull them to you and then AOE attack twice and keep running, watch your Enmity %'s and just range the ones you start to lose, which you shouldn't be losing any by the time you hit your next wall.
The point of the back to back ranged attack option is that it can, when done well, allow you to build all the enmity you need without ever stopping, which two aoe attacks would 😊 for four mobs it's a little bit challenging to do for some, but it is quite effective. Beyond four I do recommend the two aoe attacks strategy. 😊
I'm a new tank. Some guy in a dungeon told me that all my enemies should be in front of me, as I can't parry / block from behind. I guess this is wrong?
That is incorrect 😊 you can block and parry from all directions, however it is a very common misconception!
However you should still strive to get enemies bunched up, for example in front of you, because it makes it easier for both yourself, and other party members, to hit everything equally well 😁
I miss warrior cone aoe for the easy pulls
I get what you mean! the 8 yalm cone was very neat, and gave more options at times than the 5 yalm circle we have now 😅
I need this level of guidance for normal things in real life
I'm glad you found it helpful! 😄
I wish I could give this detailed guidance on real life things! 😅😊
2:55 by far not a tank main or even an experienced tank at all i got all tanks to 90 in endwalker and .. well thats it pretty much but most of the time i played dungeons ... i pull nearly always just with 1 aoe while sprinting through and start throwing range attack on them while running to the next group ... especially if you know the dungeon atleast a bit you will most likely know which target get hits in most cases from the dps and you can focus that with your hits ... if you cant do that just watch the hp of your enemys after the first throw ... the bar that drop the most you hit next .. its nearly impossible to lose the mobs to the dps even your aoe is strong enough to hold it for a few hits from the dps so you can throw something at him again ... unless maybe a dps go full burst mid pull with everything but most player never do that
2:50 I am that DPS, hello. And i'm here again to make my comment on all the things in the video.
While it is true that being a tank does not require pulling many tanks, you should at the very least pull 2 packs of mobs. That's what i consider the requirement. Especially after level 50.
You mention that it's important to temporarily turn off your tank stance during 2-tank fights. This is true, but I just want to make sure people understand that you only TEMPORARILY turn it off, or you'll end up with a DPS getting the boss if the tank goes down.
"If they are unwilling to give up main tank trying to take aggro can only make the problem worse." Well, there IS the option of reaching into the bag of disgusting cursed tech which makes it so that you can consistently always be the main tank as long as you deal higher damage than the other tank. Which, if they're bad, you will. But, I'm not going to mention these cursed strategies for aggro stealing here.
"Only use Tank LB when the boss mechanics require it" To comment on this, there's a few situations where tank LB'ing something else can be a good call. An example of this would be something like stack markers in dungeons when only you and the healer are left (can often save the healer from dying, thus allow them to recover.). Or, of course if you're the only one alive and you need it for a heavy hitting attack.
There's also using it to prevent a failed mechanic from wiping the party, this is less of a casual play tip and more for savage, where Tank LB3 is often used to skip some mechanics, or as a fail safe if someone screws it up.
THE OBSCURE SURVIVAL TECHNIQUES, STRAIGHT FROM POTD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED HECK YEAH.
Thank you for your contribution, Jet! 😊 I do agree on the amount of packs to pull, but I also understand some players improve a bit slower, or prefer to take the packs one at a time to learn what they do on a first go in a dungeon for example. The key thing is to understand that the target is to pull more, and that slower to learn tanks can get the opportunity to become good tanks 😁
Indeed, taunting when the other tank taunts is an excellent way to box the other tank out, if you can beat their aggro without taunting initially 😜
In regards to your point about using LB to save a tough spot, I suppose this fits in the breaking your limits section, if lb is what it takes, then that is a strategy! I decided to refrain from suggesting it because I have a feeling some tanks would decide LB is necessary too often if presented so readily as a tip! But you are absolutely right, I have myself used tank lb with specifically just the healer alive with me to survive in such a situation 😁
Dont know about stealing but just using shirk occasionally will ensure the other guy stays mt if you dont want to turn off tank stance.
I usually turn it on after one combo string which ends up working for me. If MT dies in the first 10 seconds of the fight (unplanned) its worth the reset anyway
Also definitely agree. You can use tank lb to practice one more stage of the fight while learning altough healer lb also works for this usually
Just a short remark on Reprisal. Don't use it if tankbuster cast already started - it won't work. Don't use it if zonewide AOE cast already started - it won't work. It needs to be already on a boss when he/she starts casting to take effect.
Casts snap shot (in general) when the cast finishes, so I highly doubt that 😊
You have to make sure that reprisal is on the boss before the cast bar is filled. If you use it after that point it is too late!
@CaetsuChaijiCh Thank you for the answer and info! :)) It's just what I was taught by our tanks... Also did some digging on Reddit... There's even a thing that it works when cast bar is at the beginning and doesn't work when castbar is over 75%. So, it all boils down to testing stuff myself:(
I wouldn't really recommend the "pulling with a ranged attack" method. A gap closer to the middle of the pack followed by a AOE attack is much simpler/safer and easier to get right. Then you still have your Provoke to pick up any strays. Sprinting to the middle and using an AOE is also good if you still don't have a gap closer yet(usually pre-50). Using single targets would be harder to manage specially if other party members are very active in damaging and healing at the start of the pull.
Oh, while we're on provoke, unless they've changed it, I know Provoke doesn't give you 2000 potency worth of enmity, it just places you on top of the enmity chart, so effectively highest enmity + 1.
The reason I recommend using ranged attacks is because all of the ranged attacks have a massive enmity multiplier, and you can start using it before you are in range, meaning the enemies don't get to swing at you, your team stays in decent distance of you, and you have plenty of time to target each thing individually.
The massive enmity multiplier means that most of these attacks do upwards of 700+ Potency of Enmity. Compared to the AoE attack which does typically around 100 Potency per target. Simply using your Ranged Attack will be like superglueing the enemy to you.
Provoke has, at least since Shadowbringers, both maxed out your enmity to whatever the highest is, and *then* adds 2000 potency worth of enmity. As of Endwalker, my tests (yes, I TESTED IT) suggest it is over 4000 Potency now.
Since Provoke is an oGCD, you can easily use Ranged -> Provoke -> Ranged in a smooth motion. If there are 4 mobs, often by the time your third ranged attack comes out, no one else has really done any substantial damage to the mobs anyway, and even if they did, the mob would've auto attacked someone once or twice, which isn't dangerous :-)
If you just use a single AoE attack and move on, the probability that the mobs will run wild if your DPS goes full blast (and sometimes they do) is much much higher. Whereas the Ranged attack option tends to be reliable in my experience, hence why I recommend it :)
7:46 typo? ment to put a 4 put a 5?
There's quite a lot of numbers on screen here at that time stamp but I can assure you I did not make any typos.
If you mean the end result of 56% damage taken, then that is also correct. Using both 20% and 30% damage reduction ultimately reduces damage by 44% which means you take 56% 😊
Or did you mean something else?
Around 3:30, he says it's always ok to pull one pack at a time. It is not. Single pulling is the equivalent of someone driving the minimum 60km/h on the highway. Any dps can single pull. You're a tank and you have mitigations. You will never learn to rotate them properly if you never have a reason to use them. Press sprint and pull everything, and don't worry too much about aggro. Whatever you've missed, the dps will drag back into your aoes when you finally stop at the next wall.
A dps may be able to single pull some packs, but they usually will require significant help from the healer 😊
A new player needs to have a chance to learn, so do you want to bully out all new tanks before they get a chance to learn, or is it OK to start learning slowly with single packs until you feel confident in pulling more and having to use proper defensive cycling to survive, rather than doing it symbolically to learn because the single pack probably won't kill you if the healer is helping 😊
You have to remember that you can't trust all the dps and healers to be good either! 😅
Edit: i would also rather compare big aoe pulls in this way with driving a car in general, not highway. Because on the highway it is actually dangerous to drive very slow. A new learning driver (as in a new learning tank) is always a lot more acceptable to drive a lot slower and make a lot of mistakes 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Calling it bullying is the root of the problem. Ff14 has one of the smoothest if not FLAT difficulty curve. Asking that someone learn to play the game they wanna play isn't bullying. And you're wrong btw about anyone else needing to be "good". Healers have like 3 buttons below lvl 60, and can just take everything else off their bar and still heal fine well into 90 dungeons. If we hopped into a dungeon rn and I single pulled on my drg, I'd press arm's length and bloodbath and you wouldn't feel the slightest difference as a healer than if I went tank and double pulled. You probably wouldn't even have to gcd heal at higher lvls.
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Apologies for commenting before finishing the video. I misjudged you. At the end there you tell tanks how to deal with dps pulling for them, and that's kinda what I was going at..
@pointlessmike apology accepted! 😊 Thank you for being honest!
🤢
🤔?
Nope.
DPS Pull on purpose, they die (*if it's an accident - the difference is often obvious, you can pick up).
If the healer steps in and tries to save the DPS putting themselves at risk saving the healer then is fine but the DPS need to god damn learn.
That said, especially if I'm on my WAR at the time I will typically even let the healer die if they exhibit this behaviour, and then handle the pull after to save the DPS.
Tanks pull, healers and healers decide the upper limit of what can be pulled between them, DPS are unimportant in casual content and chose to have no responsibility, and need to accept that.
Non-Tanks pulling is toxic behaviour, and often done to 'make the tank/healer take more', it's not ok and should not be tollerated.
Importantly; talk to your party when this happens. I have genuinely played with people who don't know this isn't ok.
And, sure, I have plenty experiences on all roles and can handle most situations as a healer, tank, or even a DPS in some situation and I can often 'save a party', but if the problem was caused by a bad faith action, if I allow that bad faith action to be rewarded.. they'll do it to sprouts that might not be so confident, attempting to force them into "Pull everything!!11oneone." That is absolutely not okay.
Naturally, attempt to do everything amicably and talk stuff out with your party but my gf was effectively tortured out of tanking by people trying to immediately force her into mass pulling, before she'd learnt the class fully.
Similar happened when she picked up healing, she unlocked sage the other day, her first dungeon was Sastasha, her second was WP HM, I was present for the second and she was trying to heal like a WHM/AST cuz she didn't understand.
The MCH in the party ignored us completely after I said we needed a second after the first pull because she couldn't keep up with the damage of big pulls and I wanted to explain a few things (we were doing this in party chat for their benefit, but the MCH kept pulling) eventually I just told her to ignore him and we let him die until he got the message; at which point he started engaging with us in chat and changed attitude after realising she was brand new to healing.
The final line was drawn when he pulled a boss which I then pulled out of the arena to reset.
Anyway. Don't pander to the 'PULL EVERYTHING NOW YOU ISNT RUNNING FULL TILT AND USIN YER CHARGE ALKTNLKAENHGLKEANGHEALK'.
It does NOT benefit our newer, less capable, casual players to let that crap permeate our community. For every person that you brute force into 'being a better player' you're likely to make someone else, quit the role.
Once again. Not okay.
I mean obviously if someone simply isn't willing to negotiate at all, then there is little you can do. But leaning on the side of caution and assuming it is a mistake that they pulled for you the first time seems to be the most polite way to go about it. Remember, if you just let the dps die, AND THEN START negotiating, they might actually be less likely to want to given that you just let them die, and if they didn't pull for you intentionally, you're the bad guy in that situation 😅
The point i was making wasn't to say "thou must always mega pull" but more that, letting the ninja puller die will often leave you in a worse position if you are a sprout yourself, since you now are less players with the same too large pull 😅
I should also mention that intentionally playing in a way that is negatively impacting the groups completion of content (whether by ninja pulling or letting someone die), is actually something you can report. But if you let the ninja puller die as punishment, then you are both equally at fault. Being the better person and then using either your words, or if that fails, the support desk, is the better way for everyone involved. At least in my opinion 😊
@@CaetsuChaijiCh Whilst for a long time I agreed with the premise of 'fix the situ first then talk', I've found most of the time, especially with "Legend+" players, there is only one way to fix their behaviour. Firm lines.
For accidental pullers it's almost always obvious, they misjudge agro range they're not pushing into the pack, either stand still or back off, that kinda thing.
Since I started engaging a lot more with the sprouts around chaos and especially streamers and their communitys, I flatly refuse to pander to the vets who are disrespectfully charging down content.
I'd also argue letting them die is largely inconsequential to the clear as they are unimportant. There is no casual dungeon content that requires DPS (similarly, as long as you have a tank(that isn't a DRK) or healer, you can largely clear content).
What we're really debating here is how to handle the duty finder roulette peeps (most typically multi-year vets) that want to go through content as QUICKLY as possible so they can go back to being AFK in Limsa, to the detriment of the community at large and especially, weaker players.
If other vets don't stand up to that and it becomes the expected norm you'll see even less sprouts wanting to pick up the axe or the shield or the astrolabe, or what have you, and the DPS are already vastly in the majority just because of that reason; no responsibility, if they then make their business intentionally, making people who are taking on those responsibilities have a worse time, they need to be dealt with.
If pulling ahead of the tank is reportable I'll do that in every single dungeon it happens in from now on, but in the same way as I wouldn't expect a GM to get involved in an intentional death (how do you even prove that? maybe the tank was afk briefly?), I wouldn't expect them to react to a report like that.
It's simple consideration for others. It annoys me the most when fellow omni90s do it, because those people KNOW precisely how much extra work they're creating for the tank. Or, at least should.
I don't really wanna turn this into a rant or debate btw.. I appreciate your videos and refer them to sprouts fairly regularly, you make great content.
I just wanted to offer a differing perspective on the "I'm better than this content so imma walk my Ninja into a 6 pack pull without the tank in Gulg and expect two other people to sort out my mess." Whom, I think should clearly not be tollerated at all. In most other MMOs people who do that would immediately be removed from the party without requirement for discussion or 'reasoning with them'.
So much this. If you aren't the tank or the healer, or don't control the pace of the run. This is something very often left out of tank and healer videos. YOU as a team set the pace. Not the DPS. They're there for one thing, and one thing only, to poke things, sometimes they get to provide so off-spec actions like minor heals and party defensive abilities, but outside of niche circumstances those off-spec actions are negligible. The DPS attempting to dictate the pace are in the wrong, period. If doesn't matter if they think the party can handle more.
Anything without an enrage timer can literally be completed without DPS with just a tank and a healer (and with a high enough level warrior maybe even without a healer). And it's only in FF14 where people try to play off this toxic behavior as 'being helpful'. Pull as a DPS in WOW, SWTOR, GW2, or any other MMO and see how fast you get removed from the group. There isn't a discussion. There isn't a warning. The kick happens right there unless it was obvious it was an accident. A DPS pulling isn't 'less likely to work as a team because you let them die' they're already unwilling to work as a team.
You need to go out and touch grass. I have gotten toxic tanks like you banned multiple times for griefing.
Pulling ahead of the tank is not bannable. You know what is? Letting party members die. I hope you're unfortunate enough to try that BS in front of me one day.
1) Pop sprint just before pulling. Not the run up to the mobs.
2) Stop pulling at the the 2nd/etc mob pack. don't pull to the wall. This game spaz out when attacking moving enemies.
3) Dump all your mitigation on the mobs. Dungeon bosses don't need mit. Let healer deal with it.
4) Newbies just start with WAR. Ez life from lv57. Branch out when bored.
5) Don't run out of my doton.
6) Don't pull with provoke. Run in and AOE. Make sure to hit everyone.
7) Arm's length. Please use it.
8) Max potion is good in low level dungeon.
9) Please don't use clemency unless healer dead.
10) As off tank in normal content, your job is to provoke when mt is dead.
11) Do whatever you want.
On 6) the point of pulling with ranged + provoke is to add a large amount of enmity before moving on. If there's only 4 or so enemies you can easily hit each enemy once without stopping. This isn't necessary in all groups or all dungeons, but if there's a long run between two packs, or if your dps is trigger happy, a noodley overpower and maybe mythril tempest (requires you to stop) is not going to cut it 😊
On 3) this is too broad. There are dungeon bosses that have tank busters strong enough that using mitigation is still recommended 😊
On 10) your job is to assist the Mt, waiting to help until after the Mt us dead is incredibly inefficient 😅
On 9) clemency should be used sparingly, not necessarily only when healer is dead, but that is certainly a point where it is more reliably helpful.
On 1) the run up to the mobs *is* before the pull 😁
@@CaetsuChaijiCh good points
I don't know why noob tanks keep recommending running to mobs to AOE instead of using ranged with provoke. Probably learned it from other bad tanks.
And no, wall to wall pulling is standard unless you're new. If you're not new and you insist on just doing two packs per pull, you are getting kicked AND reported. Simple as that.
@belphegor_tv doing even one pull per pack is not illegal. Using the kick system maliciously can get you reported and banned yourself.
Intentionally hindering the progress of the group can be reported, but progressing slower than preferred is not that. 😅