Thanks for this Kat. Reading between the lines, the change in the law does not seem to be directed at the vast majority of wild campers who are responsible, but at a different sector of society. It was very useful to have the change highlighted - and I was particularly interested to note that the "free for all" in Scotland does not apply to motorised vehicles. This was news to me!
You’re probably right, not that anyone would ever admit it. But they can’t create a law for one section of society, so we all need to be aware of it. And yes- Scotland confuses many people. Lots of incorrect info out there sadly.
Thanks for your reading of the law. It is of course subject to interpretation, but if I am asked to move, whoever asks me to move, I will do so. I do not wish any problems with locals, landowners and authorities.
I am hiring a camper van from my work and plan to wild camp but was quite concerned when I heard it was not actually legal to do. So this video was very well put and put me at ease with my plans. I was sent here from a link in the Kat at Wandering Bird email I’ve subscribed to 👌🏻
I must say for me I prefer the safety and security of a CL site for a few quid, only 5 vans allowed so you still get your peace and quiet, usually in an attractive location, facilities available for waste etc and no nighttime worries of being knocked up in the middle of the night or worse.
I bought a campervan, as I have Grade 4 cancer and I can get away LOVING 'Wild Camping' when I feel good so booking ahead is not an option for me. If anyone knocked on my door I would just smile and say I needed a few hours sleep and this lovely spot seemed perfect.
Nice 1 😊 thanks for the info and for not causing panic attacks! Leave no trace and for those that do you deserve to be penalised for being arseholes and spoiling it for the rest of us 🤨
Thanks for this Kat, I also thought that by wild camping I would be committing an offence. At first sight this seems to be pretty comprehensive, but, and I agree with Victor here, it does not define who is considered to be the necessary authority to request you leave. The Act appears to be in 2 parts, the first is definitive (with caveats) and the second seems to be subjective. I quote (The numbers and capitalisation are mine) : (1) The offence will be committed if a person who resides or intends to reside with a vehicle on land fails to leave the land or remove their property without reasonable excuse when asked to do so AND (2) they have caused, or are likely to cause, significant damage, disruption, or distress. As I read it, because of the AND in the clause, both parts need to be met in order to have committed an offence. Further, Para 3.1 states (in clarification), "two or more persons are trespassing". So a lone traveller cannot be deemed to be committing an offence under this Act. Just saying 😉. 😎
Thanks a lot I thought the same as you. I had to laugh when you said go to a campsite for a good nights sleep. I was on a site in Cheddar once and some first timers were playing loud music and drinking beer until 2am. Fortunately those situations are rare.
As a frequent traveller on the NC 500 ( my job takes me on it a lot 0 I am often surprised at the bare faced stupidity of some people, lst summer near smoo cave I parked overnight ( tacho break ) and awoke early in the morning to find a gaggle of motorhomes had commandeered the car park, that was ok until 2 of them decided to empty their toilet containers next to the bins, I noted their numbers and reported the matter to the police, I'm not sure of the outcome but fellow travellers please be respectful and the roads will be welcoming to us in the future🤮
If you are asked to move on would it be a defence to say you are really tired from driving and would be a danger to others until rested OR if you have had a drink could you say you are not fit to drive legally? Just asking for a friend… great advice by the way . It will be nice to get the Black Belt Lawyers views on this.
Great video thanks once again well worth a watch a good tip, maybe. I am thinking. But maybe If you would always to take a picture of where your van is packed and the surrounding area. when you leave, would be great if you moved and then took the same picture showing no mess whatsoever!! then that would be some proof if. somebody had taken your registration number, shall we say and decided to tell the police after the fact.????
Hi Kat, thank you for this video, my question is, when you are first requested to move on, MUST it be a police officer or can anyone request you to move?
good information Kat. My only comment is the application of the (and any) law or act by the police. You have pointed out the wording that should allow wildcamping to continue BUT some over enthusiastic cop will either find some other offence or give you a hard time. Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that.
The sad fact is that, as usual, the minority spoil things for the majority. As a keen mountaineer I have been wild camping in a tent for some 50yrs in a time when no one else wanted to do it. In the last few years everyone else has started doing it and unfortunately they don't all respect the countryside code or the true nature of 'leave no trace'. I now see used nappies left in rivers along with empty drinks cans etc. From March next year I will be living and travelling full time in an A class motorhome but already I see more and more previously used park ups being closed off to van lifers with height restrictions and signs banning overnight stays. Unfortunately, and because we are now all being pushed into using campsites instead, the campsites are capitalising on this by charging extortionate prices in the UK. I wonder, will the police being moving on the gypsy travellers that often cause more damage and distress than anyone else who lives in a van or motorhome? My experience tells me not because they are afraid to get involved when they may encounter violence.
This Act was amended to help councils and land owners to evict travellers who typically make a mess and cause trouble/anti social behaviour to that area. For us free campers, a public car park with no restrictions, a lay-by or a grass verge, which we plan to spend one night, is not subject to this legislation because there's no trespassing. As a side note, supermarket car parks are a grey area. Yes they are public but theyre also owned by a company, so if staff ask you to move on, its best not to argue and do as they say and it could be subject to this legislation and they will likely call the police if you dont leave.
One person in a van travelling arouns sleeping where they stop, as an adventure is not a 'social problem. A group of them turning up on a housing estate stealing from peoples gardens and leaving piles of rubbish every where, is a social problem.
So the main difference between this amendment and the original Act is that if you cause trouble, or don't move on when told to it is no longer a civil offence but is now a criminal one (I.e. it doesn't require a private prosecution like it used to in the 1994 Act). So... 1994 Act if you fail to move on the police could do nothing. It was down to the landowner to prosecute privately. New amendment it is a criminal offence to not move on and no private prosecution is required to qualify for punishment. That seems to be the main difference I think. What has stayed the same for both laws is that if you move on when told to, no offence has taken place. Is that right?
All of this is true. But it is very hard to Police. The reason is because lorry drivers who sleep in their trucks. This country doesn't have enough amenities 4 trucks drivers. So most of them have to sleep any where (WILD CAMP) and a lorry driver cannot move on once parked.
I think maybe need to use common sense, if there's a chance you'll need to move during the night, be that police, landowners or undesirable behaviour, one driver needs to stay within the limit. Sensible? If on a campsite etc then fine, have a drink and fill your boots!
I noticed on the way back from Keswick that lots of lorries are parked in lay-bys for the night so do these laws apply to them too? And I mean a lot ie at least 4 or 5 in one lay-by
Lorries have a right to park up to sleep- which is fundamentally what we do when we're wild camping. It's not long stays- just enough to sleep and move on safely. I'm not sure on the laws regarding lorries specifically but they are allowed in laybys, as are motorhomes.
Ok I’m sure this has been asked….. I’m the best clean and behaved camper in my Motorhome BUT I’ve pulled up and had the knock on the door and asked to move and the dilemma is I’ve had a few glasses of vino before bed and maybe over the limit.
To be fair these law changes are aimed at gypsy travellers who do all of the above. Police now have the law on their side moving these people on. Especially when they are disrespectful and cause a mess. Although I hasten to add that not all gypsy travellers are disrespecting and cause a mess
makes you feel like a prisoner in your own country. Btw. What are these places that you mentioned, that allow you to camp for cheap. The sports centers etc?
An 'act' is not law - it's legal. The two are not the same. We have FOUR laws here in England and Wales. The rest is legal. Learn legalese while you're there. Laws can put you in prison and rightly so if you break one. Legal is "a request" or "guidance". Learn the difference between the two, how you can protect yourself, and take your power back. The police have no new powers than they had before. What Kat talks about here is common courtesy, pure and simple.
We don't think it helps sensible people when you get groups of van owners congregating in one area such as at the Blue John mine in Castleton. Sadly people publicising on their social media channels has made it a magnet for people in vans/motorhomes, especially at weekends. Sometimes it looks more like a travellers community there and just creates a bad impression
Sadly it's the tiny minority of bad people spoiling it for everyone else. I've already seen this used on travellers. Just a single caravan. They parked up late at night at the end of a cul-de-sac and the following morning 10am the police turned up and they moved on in less than 30 minutes. If the travellers understand they need to move on then and that there is no point arguing then we should do the same. Importantly if you park up record any rubbish that is already there so you can't get blamed for that rubbish. A 30 second recording on your phone could easily save you from a lot of hassle. I'm going to be fitting a 360 degree CCTV system that records 24/7 with audio to protect myself from false accusations from locals. With the added bonus of protection and knowing what's going on outside at night, without having to open/remove window covers.
Thanks for this Kat. Reading between the lines, the change in the law does not seem to be directed at the vast majority of wild campers who are responsible, but at a different sector of society. It was very useful to have the change highlighted - and I was particularly interested to note that the "free for all" in Scotland does not apply to motorised vehicles. This was news to me!
You’re probably right, not that anyone would ever admit it. But they can’t create a law for one section of society, so we all need to be aware of it. And yes- Scotland confuses many people. Lots of incorrect info out there sadly.
Brilliant video Kat. Brings some clarity to what has been a confusing situation for far too long. Thank you.
You’re welcome. Glad you found it helpful
Wow thanks so much Kat for sound and sensible guidance with link and experts from the law. Phew what a relief 🙂
Thank you. I didn’t want to add to the ‘drama’.
Thanks for that video, helps a lot in terms of understanding the new law from a motorhome owners point of view.
You’re welcome. Glad it was helpful 😊
Hi Kat, I took this to mean exactly as you say, thank you for your clarity
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for your reading of the law. It is of course subject to interpretation, but if I am asked to move, whoever asks me to move, I will do so. I do not wish any problems with locals, landowners and authorities.
Very sensible.
Thanks Kat, you have made it very clear. As you said this only really applies to the bad wild campers. ❤️
Arguably the best post on this topic! Brilliantly presented and yes, you just got a new subscriber👍 thank you🙏🏿
Awww, thanks very much. I appreciate that and glad it was helpful. Thanks for the support.
I am hiring a camper van from my work and plan to wild camp but was quite concerned when I heard it was not actually legal to do. So this video was very well put and put me at ease with my plans.
I was sent here from a link in the Kat at Wandering Bird email I’ve subscribed to 👌🏻
Thank you- have a great trip 🙂
I must say for me I prefer the safety and security of a CL site for a few quid, only 5 vans allowed so you still get your peace and quiet, usually in an attractive location, facilities available for waste etc and no nighttime worries of being knocked up in the middle of the night or worse.
Totally get that and there’s no rule which says you must wild camp. Sadly, the CL sites often get booked up far in advance too
I bought a campervan, as I have Grade 4 cancer and I can get away LOVING 'Wild Camping' when I feel good so booking ahead is not an option for me. If anyone knocked on my door I would just smile and say I needed a few hours sleep and this lovely spot seemed perfect.
And you’d be fine. 🙃 have some epic adventures xx
Thanks for this video! Makes total sense and I agree its a good thing to stop the people who are determined to give us all bad names! 😁👍
Absolutely!!
Hi Kat, according to my local Council it is illegal to camp on your own land in a van without residencies planning permission.
Nice 1 😊 thanks for the info and for not causing panic attacks! Leave no trace and for those that do you deserve to be penalised for being arseholes and spoiling it for the rest of us 🤨
Thanks
Thanks for this Kat, I also thought that by wild camping I would be committing an offence. At first sight this seems to be pretty comprehensive, but, and I agree with Victor here, it does not define who is considered to be the necessary authority to request you leave. The Act appears to be in 2 parts, the first is definitive (with caveats) and the second seems to be subjective. I quote (The numbers and capitalisation are mine) : (1) The offence will be committed if a person who resides or intends to reside with a vehicle on land fails to leave the land or remove their property without reasonable excuse when asked to do so AND (2) they have caused, or are likely to cause, significant damage, disruption, or distress. As I read it, because of the AND in the clause, both parts need to be met in order to have committed an offence. Further, Para 3.1 states (in clarification), "two or more persons are trespassing". So a lone traveller cannot be deemed to be committing an offence under this Act. Just saying 😉. 😎
Thanks a lot I thought the same as you. I had to laugh when you said go to a campsite for a good nights sleep. I was on a site in Cheddar once and some first timers were playing loud music and drinking beer until 2am. Fortunately those situations are rare.
Oh, I know. Worst nights we've ever had were on a campsite- that's why we started staying off-grid. Everything has pros and cons I guess.
Thanks Kat, that was really useful 👍
As a frequent traveller on the NC 500 ( my job takes me on it a lot 0 I am often surprised at the bare faced stupidity of some people, lst summer near smoo cave I parked overnight ( tacho break ) and awoke early in the morning to find a gaggle of motorhomes had commandeered the car park, that was ok until 2 of them decided to empty their toilet containers next to the bins, I noted their numbers and reported the matter to the police, I'm not sure of the outcome but fellow travellers please be respectful and the roads will be welcoming to us in the future🤮
The most common sense and clear explanation I have seen. Too many scare vlogs out there at the moment.
Thank you. I tried to be as factual as possible to not add to the chaos
If you are asked to move on would it be a defence to say you are really tired from driving and would be a danger to others until rested OR if you have had a drink could you say you are not fit to drive legally?
Just asking for a friend… great advice by the way .
It will be nice to get the Black Belt Lawyers views on this.
Great video thanks once again well worth a watch
a good tip, maybe. I am thinking. But maybe If you would always to take a picture of where your van is packed and the surrounding area. when you leave, would be great if you moved and then took the same picture showing no mess whatsoever!! then that would be some proof if. somebody had taken your registration number, shall we say and decided to tell the police after the fact.????
Thanks Kat! I just hope that vigilante private individuals don't interpret this change as a licence to bully people excessively.
Another great video with some good information
Hi Kat, thank you for this video, my question is, when you are first requested to move on, MUST it be a police officer or can anyone request you to move?
Police, land owner or a representative of the land owner.
@@WanderingBird many thanks, for that.
good information Kat. My only comment is the application of the (and any) law or act by the police. You have pointed out the wording that should allow wildcamping to continue BUT some over enthusiastic cop will either find some other offence or give you a hard time.
Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about that.
Offer them a cuppa they appreciate that 😊
I guess that applies to many laws. But if the police ask you to move on, you should do so.
Very helpful video. Thanks, Kat
You’re welcome. ☺️
Very good informative vid , would it be possible for you to put the highlighted sections of the law you talked about on a printable sheet ? thanks
Glad it was helpful. The link is to a printable guide so I guess you could print that if you wish.
The sad fact is that, as usual, the minority spoil things for the majority. As a keen mountaineer I have been wild camping in a tent for some 50yrs in a time when no one else wanted to do it. In the last few years everyone else has started doing it and unfortunately they don't all respect the countryside code or the true nature of 'leave no trace'. I now see used nappies left in rivers along with empty drinks cans etc. From March next year I will be living and travelling full time in an A class motorhome but already I see more and more previously used park ups being closed off to van lifers with height restrictions and signs banning overnight stays.
Unfortunately, and because we are now all being pushed into using campsites instead, the campsites are capitalising on this by charging extortionate prices in the UK.
I wonder, will the police being moving on the gypsy travellers that often cause more damage and distress than anyone else who lives in a van or motorhome? My experience tells me not because they are afraid to get involved when they may encounter violence.
This Act was amended to help councils and land owners to evict travellers who typically make a mess and cause trouble/anti social behaviour to that area. For us free campers, a public car park with no restrictions, a lay-by or a grass verge, which we plan to spend one night, is not subject to this legislation because there's no trespassing.
As a side note, supermarket car parks are a grey area. Yes they are public but theyre also owned by a company, so if staff ask you to move on, its best not to argue and do as they say and it could be subject to this legislation and they will likely call the police if you dont leave.
Thank you very clear information indeed. Have a nice day :)
Thank you- you too 🙂
One person in a van travelling arouns sleeping where they stop, as an adventure is not a 'social problem. A group of them turning up on a housing estate stealing from peoples gardens and leaving piles of rubbish every where, is a social problem.
Really interesting and useful 👍
Glad it was helpful!
So the main difference between this amendment and the original Act is that if you cause trouble, or don't move on when told to it is no longer a civil offence but is now a criminal one (I.e. it doesn't require a private prosecution like it used to in the 1994 Act).
So...
1994 Act if you fail to move on the police could do nothing. It was down to the landowner to prosecute privately.
New amendment it is a criminal offence to not move on and no private prosecution is required to qualify for punishment.
That seems to be the main difference I think.
What has stayed the same for both laws is that if you move on when told to, no offence has taken place.
Is that right?
Yup. But that only applies to England & Wales. Scotland didn’t sign up to that.
Thanks
2 time I did watched.
Thanks again
I’m confused. How is parking overnight on a road or public lay-by considered trespassing on private land?
How do you find the places you can stay the night
All of this is true. But it is very hard to Police. The reason is because lorry drivers who sleep in their trucks. This country doesn't have enough amenities 4 trucks drivers. So most of them have to sleep any where (WILD CAMP) and a lorry driver cannot move on once parked.
Also absolutely agree that those people causing damage, distress etc can be moved on.
Sadly these days causing distress to someone can be caused by just smiling at them.
I can see busy body vigilantes knocking on doors at 2am as you say who don't have any connection to the land and get a kick out of doing it....
Possibly. But they could do the same before. People who enjoy doing that aren't new, but thankfully aren't too common.
What happens if you've parked up, had a couple of pints, and can't move on?
I think maybe need to use common sense, if there's a chance you'll need to move during the night, be that police, landowners or undesirable behaviour, one driver needs to stay within the limit. Sensible? If on a campsite etc then fine, have a drink and fill your boots!
I would alway recommend you don't drink when wild camping. Just in case.
I noticed on the way back from Keswick that lots of lorries are parked in lay-bys for the night so do these laws apply to them too? And I mean a lot ie at least 4 or 5 in one lay-by
Lorries have a right to park up to sleep- which is fundamentally what we do when we're wild camping. It's not long stays- just enough to sleep and move on safely. I'm not sure on the laws regarding lorries specifically but they are allowed in laybys, as are motorhomes.
@@WanderingBird so we can park in laybys as long as it doesn’t say no overnight parking?
I’ve interpreted the Act just as you have Kat.
Interesting..
Once again the law will seem to apply to the van owners who disrespect where they think they have a right to stop.
Ok I’m sure this has been asked….. I’m the best clean and behaved camper in my Motorhome BUT I’ve pulled up and had the knock on the door and asked to move and the dilemma is I’ve had a few glasses of vino before bed and maybe over the limit.
Don’t drink while you’re wild camping. It’s a park up, not a campsite or aire and you could be asked to move on. That’s the easiest solution.
Wow, thats all im saying.......
To be fair these law changes are aimed at gypsy travellers who do all of the above. Police now have the law on their side moving these people on. Especially when they are disrespectful and cause a mess. Although I hasten to add that not all gypsy travellers are disrespecting and cause a mess
makes you feel like a prisoner in your own country. Btw. What are these places that you mentioned, that allow you to camp for cheap. The sports centers etc?
An 'act' is not law - it's legal. The two are not the same. We have FOUR laws here in England and Wales. The rest is legal. Learn legalese while you're there. Laws can put you in prison and rightly so if you break one. Legal is "a request" or "guidance". Learn the difference between the two, how you can protect yourself, and take your power back. The police have no new powers than they had before. What Kat talks about here is common courtesy, pure and simple.
Good info, But I'm happy staying in France 🙂
An Act IS Law
We don't think it helps sensible people when you get groups of van owners congregating in one area such as at the Blue John mine in Castleton. Sadly people publicising on their social media channels has made it a magnet for people in vans/motorhomes, especially at weekends.
Sometimes it looks more like a travellers community there and just creates a bad impression
Thanks for common sense.
You can wild camp to your hearts content here in Scotland just use some common sense
Whatsinnit b4u
The law is to stop Muppets parking on your property for 6 months
just do it...we are free and pay for the upkeep of this country through taxes.dont park on a persons driveway in front of their house :)
I just put my pikey irish accent on thick and the cops dtive off
Sadly it's the tiny minority of bad people spoiling it for everyone else. I've already seen this used on travellers. Just a single caravan. They parked up late at night at the end of a cul-de-sac and the following morning 10am the police turned up and they moved on in less than 30 minutes. If the travellers understand they need to move on then and that there is no point arguing then we should do the same. Importantly if you park up record any rubbish that is already there so you can't get blamed for that rubbish. A 30 second recording on your phone could easily save you from a lot of hassle. I'm going to be fitting a 360 degree CCTV system that records 24/7 with audio to protect myself from false accusations from locals. With the added bonus of protection and knowing what's going on outside at night, without having to open/remove window covers.
motorhome , is not camping , sorry .
There we go! I was beginning to think we'd avoided these comments. Took a couple of days but thanks for getting involved. ;)