I think it's situational. I had the marines charging and it worked out on a few occasions to let me maximize the amount of boyz I could get on them. Deathskulls invuln save helped more than I anticipated.
I love the presentation difference between the death guard "filling out the table" and the orks overflowing the table. Great videos, can't wait to keep consuming this awesome 9th content! P.S. Also, you guys keep saying Painboys are HQ. They're actually elite, unless there's some change coming. Might help you fit a warboss or another weirdboy in the lists you're spitballing.
Funny because I have both armies and it's hilarious. Wait until they do custodians haha mine take up a corner on the shelf while my orks take up 4 alone haha
Yeah! I am new to 40k and building a Ork deathskullz Army. And so am watching a lot of 9th edition Army building videos. But these guys keep putting elite units in the HQ slot. And they are using Meks with force fields (2 of them). And I think are now index or Legends. That could be wrong.
@@jasonarce5169 The mek w force field as an HQ is in saga of the wolf. It's a great resource and if you want to play competitively essential, but if you're playing for fun I'd wait to see if they announce the codex any time soon, because all the psychic awakenings seem like they'll be invalid when their army book comes out.
Unfortunately, this was made before the new points dropped.... Probably dropping a LOT of grots from my lists now. Hoping the codex finds some way to justify the increase (like giving them access to Kultures or a buff in some other way)
Never underestimate Ork Shooty Lists, they have so much Dakka for not that much points and with the right stratagems and Dakka Dakka Dakka they can hit very hard in the shooting phase !!!
Bad moons with 90 shoota boyz, 20 lootas, and a couple mek gunz are putting out absolutely huge volumes of dice but we're still orks so unfortunately most of them miss lolol
The trick is to also bring big vehicle units that make the enemy want to shoot their blast weapons at them instead of the boys. Me personally I'm bringing 2 battlewagons loaded with flash gitz, deff dreads and killa Kans
I could see a evil suns speed freak list working out pretty well since they are generally unaffected by blast weapons while benefiting from vehicles shooting in combat. Take a painboy on a bike and a kff bike, throw in deffkilla wartrike, dragstas, squigbuggies and have a madmax style list.
Evil Sunz Speed Freeks are good, but Deathskulls might be better for the universal 6++ b/c KFFs are gonna be rarer with fewer HQ slots. DS rerolls on low-shot buggies, like Shokkjump Dragstas is ace. Also DS Meks with objective secured, ablative grot oiler, and kustom mega-slugga with rerolls are cheap Elites slot fillers to get a brigade.
My daughter plays a Deathskullz Speed Freeks list. I was annoyed Outrider Detachments didn't get their points refunded, too. Or the others for that matter - she's also working on a Dred Mob (with her sights set on a Stompa Mob). Penalizing a really thematic list like Speed Freeks just sucks. It IS more CPs than she got in 8th, though. But with Imperial factions she usually faces off against getting more still, it's not an extra hurdle she should have to face. I hope they fix this. Giving the Deffkilla Wartrike a special ability ought to do it without letting everybody do it, thus continuing to reflect the special forces sort of feel I think they were going for.
As a New player to 40k, Picking Orks in 2019 and getting my start collecting box changed everything for me. From then on all I knew was WAGH! Still the learning curve of playing is an immense climb.
Guys when you talk about army builds like you do in these videos, it would be great if you could actually provide a detailed list of the army at the end of the video or maybe a link in the description. Keep up the great content.
I’d felt like your content had lagged in terms of releases the last year, especially when leaks and rumors started to come out, and it makes sense since you were busy play-testing 9th. Enjoying all the great informed and strategic content.
Ok so basically... Orks are screwed xD When you have to say 'its a trade-off' 'everyone takes a hit' and 'shadow nerfs' alot and have call out the stupid 'cut them down' strat (which only works for models within engagement range btw) as a great way to 'mitigate' the changes You know it's going to be tough one to swallow
Eh I wouldn't say that they're going to be weak by any means. Orks have a huge amount of options and are very versatile. Secondarily, since the missions really like to have lots of obsec bodies on points that are fearless, Orks as well positioned for that. Sure you'll have to change but I think Orks come out relatively similar based on how I'm seeing things shift up
@@alexanderkentopp3070 all those options got nerfed though... (Or better phrasing: were better in 8th) and those obsec bodies? Are cannon fodder now. 10 intercessors in cover will be much more resilient then 30 Boyz (and can even do stuff like shoot things) and by the way... Orks are not fearless....
@@adrianmcp92 Ah it's a L2P issue then. That's why Orks see such great representation in competitive... wait they don't. Watch the interviews with the top Ork players, they say the same thing REDN0AK is saying. They can't win a straight up fight, they have to push objectives against killy armies that are trying to get board control before taking objectives. Now in 9th edition MSU means there's more competition for board control since people don't have to shake in their boots against Knights at tournaments spamming Kill and Kill More with two overvalued killing secondaries. When these armies swap to MSU the boy spam is going to be even less viable than it was before, but Orks have no board control without it.
I think you're overvaluing Cut Them Down. Especially with the new Engagement Range rules, you're probably not going to get more than ten or so boyz in range of any given unit unless you have a really good charge roll. I also think death skullz monofaction is going to want to focus almost mostly on dakka. I don't think the assault units are going to quite make it. Partly because even with more terrain, you're not going to be able to hide thirty boyz entirely behind or on a terrain feature, and partly because they move slow and charge unreliably without the Sunz bonus (slightly better than a 50/50 on a 9 inch charge with 'Ere We Go). I think you want to keep just enough melee to react to opponents charging into you, and then focus the rest of your points into volume of fire.
@@adrianmcp92 think it's better to run then in squads of 20? Maybe I should try cramming them into battlewagons again. Sucks that 11+ proc full shots on blast discouraging 12 boys in trucks. Thinking of working outflanked trucks of boyz for objective nabbing to route enemies in multiple directions.
I think Orks are likely to be one of the weaker factions in 9th. Pretty much all competitive Ork lists were souping Evil Sunz with Bad Moons and/or Deathskulls. Given how easy it was in 8th to get to 3 battalions even at 1500 points Orks actually lost CP with the detachment changes and they are already one of the most CP hungry factions. So in terms of just output, their armies are now objectively worse than they were in 8th due to the loss of clan souping and CPs. With the addition of blast rules and the new terrain LOS changes it'll be even harder to keep your boys in unstoppable green tide range. It's looking like 9th is going to have Imperial factions totally unbeatable until we get new codecies. Ad Mech now can't be tagged since their roster is literally 90% vehicles so have lost the primary reason they souped with Knights. Imperial Guard can't be tagged and don't suffer on movement anymore so lost the primary reason they souped with Blood Angels. Space Marines were already loathe to soup plus got blast so it's just a win for them. Sororitas already had a strong shooting list and didn't typically soup. Custodes can now stack 1+ saves with the new Storm Shields going to 0+ in cover. Meanwhile Chaos soup is on life support while having most lists auto-lose vs. Grey Knights, Craftworlds now have to consider if souping with Harlequins is worth it and can no longer Supreme Command with Drukhari for CPs and stratagems, Tau battlesuits can now be tagged because they don't have the vehicle tag. 9th edition feels like yet another love letter to Imperials when they were already overwhelmingly dominating the meta. Buckle up, it's yet another year of every tournament list being dominated by all Imperial factions.
And Ynari is unplayable, GW wanted to stop people from shopping around for the best sauce. Which makes sense in a casual setting, but in competitive. I’ve had to remake my craftworld, it wasn’t too bad but there’s almost no reason to run aspect warriors other than dire avengers
Arrgh, the Orks have Quantity argument... again. Quantity does not beat Quality, as in the quality to actually survive a round of shooting against so many (non-Ork) armies that are so good at it. And now we have upgraded Blast weapons in 9th, hooray! Painboys, KFFs and screening units are not enough to offset the firepower coming your way, especially when your opponent gets to shoot first. (that turn one imbalance is another fish to fry) Killing units will still be important, even if it doesn't score you points. The attitude I've seen in over 20 years of playing is "if it's dead, it can't win, so kill it." So, I really don't see player attitudes changing that much in 9th. People will still build killy armies and tanky armies. How they use them, to score VPs will change, but not much else. I've been playing Orks for over 20 years, and I never enjoyed GW's attitude of "Boys before Toys" that informs so much of their decision making. The fact that the Troops options for Orks are still stuck in the 90s is laughably bad. Imagine if they did that to a MEQ army. I have a Freebootaz army that I'll be trying out first in 9th. It's built to try and do the impossible: survive an opponent's shooting phase. I'll have to take a Spearhead detachment, and eat the cost in CP, but it may be worth it? After that, I shall take on an almost Sisyphean task: Make Ghazgkull work in 9th edition. But, I do love playing the Orks. They may be stuck in the shallow end of the pool for another 25 years, but they're always fun to play. And how does that old Ork saying go? "Orks is never beaten in battle. We can always come back for another go!"
Ghazgkull Thraka is going to be the true BEAST in the middle field. With some support. And the rest of the army on offense. Right now with the current new codex out. Only Necrons seem to have new units that can hurt him faster.
Not with blast weapons being a thing. I am thinking of using boyz to protect nobz. In front lines. A small unit of grots to my back field point. To try to get a point each round guarantee.
How to play orks in 9th. Option A: Dont Option B: Wait for a codex with reasonable points. Option C: Spam the 6 units that can get a first turn charge as well as burna bommers and you might get lucky.
Option Z: Make a fluffy list, tell your space marine playing friends, to also bring fluffy lists. Problems solved. (as long your not a tournament player, which 99'% of the people in the commentsection are not) (they just love to cry and be negative) Even Space Marines got nerfed to oblivion. What comes on top is, Space Marines were a GARBAGE tier faction for about 6-7 of 9 editions, but since they get soooo many new releases (primaris) people just act like it's the same on the table. While it's not. Black Templars we're one of the weakest Space Marine factions in 8th which then even got nerfed in the transition to 9th. So don't put them all in one box. (if your SM-friend, brings 9 Eradicators, smash him in the face and look for a player to actually have FUN with). To be honest, Space Marines deserve to be top-tier for an edition or 2... And the amount of possiblities, will always be a big advantage. Still, I bet, harlequins are stronger than Space Marines in this edition, while harder to play.
When I started 40k I started with chaos space marines, now a few months later I know Orks will be my main army I love the kitbashing aspect and I find them easyer and more intuitive from a synergistic standpoint, just screen move, charge stack buffs from hq's psychic powers and grab some boys and units you think will synergise well, just won my first game with them today against salamanders, and I had 25 points less in my list, than his, feels good
Yes, so tanks can generally shoot into melee now, however: Heavy Weapons get a -1 to hit penalty within Engagement Range (but not for moving anymore). And Blast Weapons will be the only ones not being able to shoot into close combat at all. That makes all kinds of sponson weapons more valuable. You want all the Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters and similar you can possibly take. In 8th ed people usually didn't take them to shave off some points
The cut them down stratagem isn’t thaaat great. It won’t be 30 dice, you probably only have about 10 (maybe fewer now) in engagement range. This means you’re going to average only about 1 maybe 2 mortal wounds when you use it
@@alexanderwillis9473 Yeh, I get what you mean - it's always nicer to have rules that back up the fluff for the factions you're playing. I'm sure there's a way to make Ork soup lists viable, but I'm yet to play any 9th so it'll be trial and error for a while =)
Great video guys, I've been wanting to start Orks for a while, currently, I play Tyranids (far far too many models in my collection!) I hope you do a video on 9th Nids!
personal hunch. Since it's till dakka-hammer, shooting is easier with new terrain & stupid models that ignore LOS and huge range (i heard IG wyvern has heavy 4d6 blast 48" ignore LOS). Long story short 11+ models infantry unit is insane to work with. There are some units i like for 9ed: 1) I like *smasha mekgunz*, they have 3" movement to move safely into terrain on turn1 as vehicle and then shoot through. 40 pts per model, rumor says it has blast, a whacky T8 hole puncher. 2) a *dread waaagh!* special detachment (-1cp) relic shokk attack gun. It has heavy2d6 instead of 1d6. It's 2x da powah. 3) *scrapjet* has 4+BS to man two twin-heavy-shoota (assault12 str5 ap0 dmg1), some variable of str8 rocket launcha, 1 of them is 4+BS to vehicle. 110 per piece, able to get terrain obscure compared to dakkajet, but dakkajet has up to 18shots str6,ap-1,dmg1 and speed. 4) 5 stormboyz (12pts), 5 kommandos (9pts) & 1 deffkopta (25+10pts) are faster than 5pts grots at getting to an objective. Try to live with 15 lootas and more expensive grots under better firepower. It is more liability facing certain codex. Certainly the unit profile is not final, total accurate or conclusive.. I just get them from da internet.
I don't know if that was bad to have 10 mek gunz in 8th. But I think in 9th being a smaller map with more control markers. 2 or 3 guns with more units to rush the maps points. Is more important. And I think players we be moving their guns forward. Even if it's only 3" I think.
They changed the warscroll for the Big Mek with KFF. His invuln is now Klan-specific and works in melee too. As long as we don't get a FAQ or new codex, the KFF found on Morkanauts and similar are still the old version... so it's for ranged only but works on other Klans in a different detachment.
Yep! And as far as I can tell it is legit. I was waiting for it to get addressed but looks like we're good. As Monki mentioned though, its only on the mek on foot without mega armour
My biggest hope is for Thousand Sons becoming better as pure armies,Deathguard becoming better in general,World Eaters and Emporors Children getting their own codex's and getting Start Collecting boxes for other stuff too. Grey Knights,Custodians,Sisters of Battle etc. Thats all I want.
What about multiple units of 30 boys, all with unbreakable leadership (mob rule counting other nearby units mean Ld is going to be around 30, so they aren't going to fail any Ld tests) Then da jump a unit into charge range every turn, swamp the board and auto win? There's no way any army can remove 120+ boys with their tougness, invul saves and damage cancels.
That is literally what the green tide strategy is, and it was incredibly powerful at the beginning of 8th. The problem comes in because you need to be 9" from an enemy on all sides to jump in so if they castle up properly and dont give you that space there's nowhere for you to fit 30 boys other than directly in front of a massive gunline. Cross your fingers, hope you make the charge and kill 1 unit, because now you have 30 boys against their entire army. That being said it's still a wicked Distraction Carnifex
super informative and well done thanks guys! for an old 'ere we go' veteran ork player just newly coming back to the faction for 9th , I am super excited
Hey guys, love your faction guides for 9th edition. What's your opinion on Orkboyz in transports, like Trukks and Battlewagons for 9th? Do you think a mech Ork/Speedfreek army is going to be viable?
9.30. Where does everyone get this 30 dice roll from with the strategem? If the orks have been in combat they probably aren't 30 strong anymore, and with the new 1/2" engagement range they are highly unlikely to have everyone in range. It makes it sound so much better than it really is.
Right? its like those people that supposedly play in tournaments were never shot at and always have perfect engagements in melee and then are like ''melee is great what are you talking about''.
@@TheTexasDice I'm well aware of that, that's why I stated 1/2" range, the only way to even remotely have a chance of getting 30 attacks. But still extremely unlikely.
Great video as always! Just one question, you often talk about the new rules for ruins and how much line of sight that gives you. But since terrain is defined before the battle, couldn't you just say you need to be "through" the wall to be in the terrain? So that you are actually inside the ruin instead of just touching the wall?
I love the presentation, but you got too many things wrong for this to be considered a good video. - Painboys are elites and therefore not nerfed by the CP changes. - Supreme command detachments can't even be used by Orks in their current state. - New engagement range rules are the single biggest nerf to Orks, and you didn't even mention them.
Thanks for the feedback OverratedFool! I wouldnt be so quick to rule out Supreme command for orks, since we haven't seen if/what gains the SUPREME COMMANDER tag. New engagement rules aren't all bad for orks. Generally boyz are already not the killiest unit. New engagement means shorter charges up ruins, which is a massive plus for them.
If Orks even get a Supreme Commander. There's only 1 unit that has 1 the size, 2 the power, 3 the lore, 4 is the last HQ to get complete update in both rules and model. Ghazgkull Thraka.
Hoping on the WH40k Ork train. Good timing too with 9th dropping. I bought a start collect Ork set and some loota's and the 8th codex. Will be getting the saga of the beast with my friend who's running space wolves. Any advice or tips for how to start building my army and what should be must haves like loota's from what I've seen?
Even against Blast Weapons Orks are still good in large numbers... With the new KFF rules and maybe combined with a painboy 30 boys are a great thread...
Given that games will be more holding objectives based, how good do y'all think a walker heavy list would work? I'm thinking 3 Gorkanauts, 9 Deff Dreads, and 12 Killa Kan amount of walkers here; just max out all the heavy armour.
I playtested this and in a Tin 'Ead detachment, they are now absolutely bonkers good! But keep in mind that you need objective secured (Dis is Ours! Zog Off!) models, otherwise a single surviving enemy troop will just steal your objective. I recommend paying the CPs to get a detachment of Deathskullz. In there, every single Infantry model gets objective secured!
@@DerMitWieWoOhneNamen that's my main idea. I play mono Deathskulls anyway so having an extra detachment of infantry is the plan. The Deffs and Nauts clear out chaffe and can either charge forward and the infantry hold the poht or hold the point themselves and the infantry screen the enemy.
Use neopyhtes in trucks to get units on the table and bikes if you can afford it. Put acolytes and metamorphs in ambush along with primus and kellermorph. Figure out where you need to go and what you need to kill, ambush right there. Use that 2 point strat to show up 9" then either move D6 or shoot, use that with the metamorphs, move into range with the hand flames, then use the 3 point strat where you show up 3" but can't charge, use that one for the primus, re-roll wound rolls of 1 with hand flames. Burn the unit, charge, add one to hit roll with primus, re-roll hits of 1 with banner, re-roll wounds of 1 with primus. No primaris marine unit can with stand that. I've taken down Redemptors with that. Do the same with kellermorph and acolytes on your next turn. Keep your bikes and trucks moving, try not to engage enemies with them. You can switch out your ambush units with abberants and their leader dude. I've done it, it can work. Also, if you need to create a heavy support detachment of astra militarum using Basilisks and Hydra/Wyverns (Hydras for Eldars and Tau, Wyverns for Tyranids and Orks), like I said before, if you can afford it. Using this will create holes in their lines if the opponent has effective screening. After a turn of this shooting, they shouldn't have screening units anymore. In this case, lose any transports for your GSC. Units to get for GSC, lots basic troops, kellermorph and primus, anything artillery based, the GSC dune buggies with the jackal alpha and Astra Militarum artillery units I mentioned. Don't bother patriarchs or magus.
In your idea for a freebooter list , why would you take the gork over the mork out of interest ? I would have thought the Mork with kustomjob to boost to BS4 off bat would be better plus the 5+ always a bonus . I have never had much luck using my gork as a gork in games in 8th ,
18:30, can you actually pre-measure in 9th edition?! I'm an oooold player (6th or 7th edition?) and am looking into getting my Greenies back into the fray again, so really appreciate your videos :).
You mention "Fights First" abilities here towards the end of the "Speculative Charging" section. There are some issues with this, since those armies that have "Fights First" abilities often have them worded as such: "This unit fights first. If your opponent has charged or both players have 'fights first' rules, alternate *starting with the player whose turn it is.*" Unless those wordings change, fights first won't get to fight first when charged.
@Adrian Phillips - Do you have any general positioning tips for orks or ork boyz? I’m new to the game and would love info or links to help keep my ladz from getting blasted off the table from shooty armies.
Love 40k. All i would recommend is seeing more of the models. Watching 2 men talk isnt really what i want to see its not very dynamic. Like battle reports where im seing a stripey shirt more than the units. Fair play anyway
It's hard for the souped up shokka to be bad at anything hehe. It's still great, but it is much easier for the enemy to put big targets behind obscuring cover. Though a tank heavy army will still run out of room
I doubt you still asking this question. But this video came out in 2020 almost 2 years exactly. But any one whom just watch this video. These guys just read the Codex. But without notice many of the rules changes at all. So many errors. Doing a whole section base on wrong information about a Big Mek Kustom force field(The KFF should do 6" of aura "that's a little more than 12" around the Men's base" which can be boosted with a extra 3" by big gob. And telling Orks not to charge. It was a lot of 8th edition thinking in a 9th edition meta.
Scale is incressed bruh to 3000. Small things like grots and termagants are now 5 but intercessors what are they like 20 plus weapons. ? Its all perspective
Im still planning to run an entire grot army with 180 grots in it. Is it stupid? Fuck yea. Is that gonna stop me from creating an army for Makari? Nope.
Itz simple. Ya bring da biggest dakka and da most boyz to start a propa WAAAGH!
Zog! Evin mo boyz!
You know it is bad when they say "let the space marine player charge you"
Yea I don't agree with letting your opponent charge your orks. That's like saying yes come kill my stuff lol.
I think it's situational. I had the marines charging and it worked out on a few occasions to let me maximize the amount of boyz I could get on them. Deathskulls invuln save helped more than I anticipated.
@Edward Chance Then you’re a terrible friend.
Can't wait for the video about Nids in 9th. Though I'm fully well anticipating it to be along the lines of How to play Tyranids: Don't
Tyranids, scary as demons in the fluff, on the table, myyeehh.
They haven't been good since Space Hulk
Yikes... you were right on that one. Nids look worse than the orks
Don't
But if you must
Gun line.... what have they done
I love the presentation difference between the death guard "filling out the table" and the orks overflowing the table. Great videos, can't wait to keep consuming this awesome 9th content!
P.S. Also, you guys keep saying Painboys are HQ. They're actually elite, unless there's some change coming. Might help you fit a warboss or another weirdboy in the lists you're spitballing.
Funny because I have both armies and it's hilarious. Wait until they do custodians haha mine take up a corner on the shelf while my orks take up 4 alone haha
Yeah! I am new to 40k and building a Ork deathskullz Army. And so am watching a lot of 9th edition Army building videos. But these guys keep putting elite units in the HQ slot. And they are using Meks with force fields (2 of them). And I think are now index or Legends. That could be wrong.
@@jasonarce5169 The mek w force field as an HQ is in saga of the wolf. It's a great resource and if you want to play competitively essential, but if you're playing for fun I'd wait to see if they announce the codex any time soon, because all the psychic awakenings seem like they'll be invalid when their army book comes out.
Unfortunately, this was made before the new points dropped.... Probably dropping a LOT of grots from my lists now. Hoping the codex finds some way to justify the increase (like giving them access to Kultures or a buff in some other way)
feeels bad but they are more powerful as screens now. Since you get no benefit from CP loss. Although I would love my grots to reroll advances...
The issue is the impact of blast on the boys and the fact that Marines have more dakka than any ork list
Never underestimate Ork Shooty Lists, they have so much Dakka for not that much points and with the right stratagems and Dakka Dakka Dakka they can hit very hard in the shooting phase !!!
Bad moons with 90 shoota boyz, 20 lootas, and a couple mek gunz are putting out absolutely huge volumes of dice but we're still orks so unfortunately most of them miss lolol
Since they've said you should not charge first anymore, the list better be shooty. Apparently
Orks are gunline now
@@RecklessFables 8th was also gunline...
The trick is to also bring big vehicle units that make the enemy want to shoot their blast weapons at them instead of the boys. Me personally I'm bringing 2 battlewagons loaded with flash gitz, deff dreads and killa Kans
I could see a evil suns speed freak list working out pretty well since they are generally unaffected by blast weapons while benefiting from vehicles shooting in combat. Take a painboy on a bike and a kff bike, throw in deffkilla wartrike, dragstas, squigbuggies and have a madmax style list.
thats about what I was considering for 9th
Evil Sunz Speed Freeks are good, but Deathskulls might be better for the universal 6++ b/c KFFs are gonna be rarer with fewer HQ slots. DS rerolls on low-shot buggies, like Shokkjump Dragstas is ace. Also DS Meks with objective secured, ablative grot oiler, and kustom mega-slugga with rerolls are cheap Elites slot fillers to get a brigade.
Kff bike is gone iirc
My daughter plays a Deathskullz Speed Freeks list. I was annoyed Outrider Detachments didn't get their points refunded, too. Or the others for that matter - she's also working on a Dred Mob (with her sights set on a Stompa Mob). Penalizing a really thematic list like Speed Freeks just sucks. It IS more CPs than she got in 8th, though. But with Imperial factions she usually faces off against getting more still, it's not an extra hurdle she should have to face. I hope they fix this. Giving the Deffkilla Wartrike a special ability ought to do it without letting everybody do it, thus continuing to reflect the special forces sort of feel I think they were going for.
Me whos used to seeing like 50 models at most on the table:
The table: I am now green
As a New player to 40k, Picking Orks in 2019 and getting my start collecting box changed everything for me. From then on all I knew was WAGH! Still the learning curve of playing is an immense climb.
Finally!! Been finishing up my Orks for 9th. Still lots to do. Speed Freaks and tanks FTW!
Thanks for your great work on the different armies, really appreciate it!
Orks are the best, by far.
Guys when you talk about army builds like you do in these videos, it would be great if you could actually provide a detailed list of the army at the end of the video or maybe a link in the description. Keep up the great content.
I’d felt like your content had lagged in terms of releases the last year, especially when leaks and rumors started to come out, and it makes sense since you were busy play-testing 9th. Enjoying all the great informed and strategic content.
Ok so basically... Orks are screwed xD
When you have to say 'its a trade-off' 'everyone takes a hit' and 'shadow nerfs' alot and have call out the stupid 'cut them down' strat (which only works for models within engagement range btw) as a great way to 'mitigate' the changes
You know it's going to be tough one to swallow
Eh I wouldn't say that they're going to be weak by any means. Orks have a huge amount of options and are very versatile. Secondarily, since the missions really like to have lots of obsec bodies on points that are fearless, Orks as well positioned for that.
Sure you'll have to change but I think Orks come out relatively similar based on how I'm seeing things shift up
@@alexanderkentopp3070 all those options got nerfed though... (Or better phrasing: were better in 8th) and those obsec bodies? Are cannon fodder now. 10 intercessors in cover will be much more resilient then 30 Boyz (and can even do stuff like shoot things) and by the way... Orks are not fearless....
@@REDN0AK If you're boyz aren't effectively fearless you might need to work on positioning.
@@adrianmcp92 Ah it's a L2P issue then. That's why Orks see such great representation in competitive... wait they don't. Watch the interviews with the top Ork players, they say the same thing REDN0AK is saying. They can't win a straight up fight, they have to push objectives against killy armies that are trying to get board control before taking objectives. Now in 9th edition MSU means there's more competition for board control since people don't have to shake in their boots against Knights at tournaments spamming Kill and Kill More with two overvalued killing secondaries. When these armies swap to MSU the boy spam is going to be even less viable than it was before, but Orks have no board control without it.
Yeeees just what I wanted too see when I wake up and hopp on TH-cam : D 💚💚💚
I think you're overvaluing Cut Them Down. Especially with the new Engagement Range rules, you're probably not going to get more than ten or so boyz in range of any given unit unless you have a really good charge roll. I also think death skullz monofaction is going to want to focus almost mostly on dakka. I don't think the assault units are going to quite make it. Partly because even with more terrain, you're not going to be able to hide thirty boyz entirely behind or on a terrain feature, and partly because they move slow and charge unreliably without the Sunz bonus (slightly better than a 50/50 on a 9 inch charge with 'Ere We Go). I think you want to keep just enough melee to react to opponents charging into you, and then focus the rest of your points into volume of fire.
Yeah I think this is a good call. Most of my lists now run about 60 utility boyz, mostly for bodies, with a lot of dakka
@@adrianmcp92 think it's better to run then in squads of 20? Maybe I should try cramming them into battlewagons again.
Sucks that 11+ proc full shots on blast discouraging 12 boys in trucks.
Thinking of working outflanked trucks of boyz for objective nabbing to route enemies in multiple directions.
I think Orks are likely to be one of the weaker factions in 9th. Pretty much all competitive Ork lists were souping Evil Sunz with Bad Moons and/or Deathskulls. Given how easy it was in 8th to get to 3 battalions even at 1500 points Orks actually lost CP with the detachment changes and they are already one of the most CP hungry factions. So in terms of just output, their armies are now objectively worse than they were in 8th due to the loss of clan souping and CPs. With the addition of blast rules and the new terrain LOS changes it'll be even harder to keep your boys in unstoppable green tide range. It's looking like 9th is going to have Imperial factions totally unbeatable until we get new codecies. Ad Mech now can't be tagged since their roster is literally 90% vehicles so have lost the primary reason they souped with Knights. Imperial Guard can't be tagged and don't suffer on movement anymore so lost the primary reason they souped with Blood Angels. Space Marines were already loathe to soup plus got blast so it's just a win for them. Sororitas already had a strong shooting list and didn't typically soup. Custodes can now stack 1+ saves with the new Storm Shields going to 0+ in cover.
Meanwhile Chaos soup is on life support while having most lists auto-lose vs. Grey Knights, Craftworlds now have to consider if souping with Harlequins is worth it and can no longer Supreme Command with Drukhari for CPs and stratagems, Tau battlesuits can now be tagged because they don't have the vehicle tag. 9th edition feels like yet another love letter to Imperials when they were already overwhelmingly dominating the meta. Buckle up, it's yet another year of every tournament list being dominated by all Imperial factions.
And Ynari is unplayable, GW wanted to stop people from shopping around for the best sauce. Which makes sense in a casual setting, but in competitive. I’ve had to remake my craftworld, it wasn’t too bad but there’s almost no reason to run aspect warriors other than dire avengers
It's gonna be real funny seeing nothing but space marines duke it out at competitions, seeing as mankind is supposed to be unified.
its a trade off
everyone takes a hit
cut them down
shadow nerfs
yeah they slapped orks and nids again, hurraaaaaaay
Nah, 'nids are just back to monster-mash only... Which as a horde 'nid player pisses me off, but there's theoretically a win there?
@HappyandAtheist same, F for our diseased friends
Boss iz got a idea. We just bring even MOAR DAKKA!
Arrgh, the Orks have Quantity argument... again.
Quantity does not beat Quality, as in the quality to actually survive a round of shooting against so many (non-Ork) armies that are so good at it. And now we have upgraded Blast weapons in 9th, hooray!
Painboys, KFFs and screening units are not enough to offset the firepower coming your way, especially when your opponent gets to shoot first. (that turn one imbalance is another fish to fry)
Killing units will still be important, even if it doesn't score you points. The attitude I've seen in over 20 years of playing is "if it's dead, it can't win, so kill it."
So, I really don't see player attitudes changing that much in 9th. People will still build killy armies and tanky armies. How they use them, to score VPs will change, but not much else.
I've been playing Orks for over 20 years, and I never enjoyed GW's attitude of "Boys before Toys" that informs so much of their decision making. The fact that the Troops options for Orks are still stuck in the 90s is laughably bad. Imagine if they did that to a MEQ army.
I have a Freebootaz army that I'll be trying out first in 9th. It's built to try and do the impossible: survive an opponent's shooting phase. I'll have to take a Spearhead detachment, and eat the cost in CP, but it may be worth it?
After that, I shall take on an almost Sisyphean task: Make Ghazgkull work in 9th edition.
But, I do love playing the Orks. They may be stuck in the shallow end of the pool for another 25 years, but they're always fun to play. And how does that old Ork saying go?
"Orks is never beaten in battle. We can always come back for another go!"
The new vehicles were cool
Yup. The sheer amount of marine zero effort free force multipliers make relying on a KFF utterly senseless.
Ghazgkull Thraka is going to be the true BEAST in the middle field. With some support. And the rest of the army on offense. Right now with the current new codex out. Only Necrons seem to have new units that can hurt him faster.
How to actually play Orks in 9th edition: Put them on a shelf until 10th edition
Or optimistically a codex that buffs them
Still top in the charts of win rate
I feel like evil sunz are getting a decent buff, I heard ork vehichle are better in this edition, I really hope so!
Great analysis guys.
Looking forward to a Necron one :)
Sounds like 9th will come to be known as "Screenhammer".
Not with blast weapons being a thing. I am thinking of using boyz to protect nobz. In front lines. A small unit of grots to my back field point. To try to get a point each round guarantee.
Every single video you guys have put out since 9th dropped has been the best video about 9th
Thanks so much Dean! That's so good to hear :)
How to play orks in 9th.
Option A: Dont
Option B: Wait for a codex with reasonable points.
Option C: Spam the 6 units that can get a first turn charge as well as burna bommers and you might get lucky.
Option D: play 8th edition
Option E: Don't play anyone who brings space marines
Typhus, Herald of Nurgle Option F: Do play anyone who brings space marines, regret
Option Z: Make a fluffy list, tell your space marine playing friends, to also bring fluffy lists. Problems solved.
(as long your not a tournament player, which 99'% of the people in the commentsection are not) (they just love to cry and be negative) Even Space Marines got nerfed to oblivion. What comes on top is, Space Marines were a GARBAGE tier faction for about 6-7 of 9 editions, but since they get soooo many new releases (primaris) people just act like it's the same on the table. While it's not.
Black Templars we're one of the weakest Space Marine factions in 8th which then even got nerfed in the transition to 9th. So don't put them all in one box.
(if your SM-friend, brings 9 Eradicators, smash him in the face and look for a player to actually have FUN with).
To be honest, Space Marines deserve to be top-tier for an edition or 2...
And the amount of possiblities, will always be a big advantage.
Still, I bet, harlequins are stronger than Space Marines in this edition, while harder to play.
Dakka
Rhymes with chewbaca
And just in case it turns up "ere we go" is a football chant to the tune of Stars and stripes forever.
I noticed a Squiggoth, is that showing up in the battle report? :)
I damn sure hope so
A Squiggoth and a Gargantuan Squiggoth. Oh please please please feature them in a battle report
Oh I will make sure they do. Funny enough the big one actually did get better. Always take 2 supa lobbas which are heavy haha
Awesome analysis of the orks for this edition...haven’t had the chance to play nineth ed yet, but surely will try listing a different way.
Cool, what to you think of GW attitude to poo on all armies except speiz marihnez?
When I started 40k I started with chaos space marines, now a few months later I know Orks will be my main army I love the kitbashing aspect and I find them easyer and more intuitive from a synergistic standpoint, just screen move, charge stack buffs from hq's psychic powers and grab some boys and units you think will synergise well, just won my first game with them today against salamanders, and I had 25 points less in my list, than his, feels good
I really wish the hobby wasn't so expensive. I love all aspects from painting to the novels.
you can start small with Kill Team.
You should have tried collecting it 20 years ago before ebay 🤣🤣
This video is great:) thank you so much guys:)
Please do Genestealer Cult, I have a feeling we'll need it.
Oh absolutely, there's a ton to talk about with them!
Seems like ork trucks would be super powerful. They would allow putting large amounts of troops on objectives in turn 1.
I think they're very interesting!
I love piratey orks too! Could you make up a sample freebooter list of 1500-2000 points based on the 9th ed rules? Thank you!
Did I read blast can't shoot in engagement range, so at least tanks with blast can't shoot in cc
Yes, so tanks can generally shoot into melee now, however:
Heavy Weapons get a -1 to hit penalty within Engagement Range (but not for moving anymore). And Blast Weapons will be the only ones not being able to shoot into close combat at all.
That makes all kinds of sponson weapons more valuable. You want all the Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters and similar you can possibly take. In 8th ed people usually didn't take them to shave off some points
The cut them down stratagem isn’t thaaat great. It won’t be 30 dice, you probably only have about 10 (maybe fewer now) in engagement range. This means you’re going to average only about 1 maybe 2 mortal wounds when you use it
All true, but orks are better equipped to use it than most factions
You guys are killing it!
Gargantuan Squiggoth looks so sexy.
Also how would you make an Evil Sunz, Bad Moonz, and Goff army?
Trukks, Dakka and Boyz. Thats how you do it =)
@@CrimsonTusk i think he means with less detachments in 9th issue
@@alexanderwillis9473 Yeh, I get what you mean - it's always nicer to have rules that back up the fluff for the factions you're playing. I'm sure there's a way to make Ork soup lists viable, but I'm yet to play any 9th so it'll be trial and error for a while =)
Great video guys, I've been wanting to start Orks for a while, currently, I play Tyranids (far far too many models in my collection!) I hope you do a video on 9th Nids!
personal hunch. Since it's till dakka-hammer, shooting is easier with new terrain & stupid models that ignore LOS and huge range (i heard IG wyvern has heavy 4d6 blast 48" ignore LOS). Long story short 11+ models infantry unit is insane to work with.
There are some units i like for 9ed:
1) I like *smasha mekgunz*, they have 3" movement to move safely into terrain on turn1 as vehicle and then shoot through. 40 pts per model, rumor says it has blast, a whacky T8 hole puncher.
2) a *dread waaagh!* special detachment (-1cp) relic shokk attack gun. It has heavy2d6 instead of 1d6. It's 2x da powah.
3) *scrapjet* has 4+BS to man two twin-heavy-shoota (assault12 str5 ap0 dmg1), some variable of str8 rocket launcha, 1 of them is 4+BS to vehicle. 110 per piece, able to get terrain obscure compared to dakkajet, but dakkajet has up to 18shots str6,ap-1,dmg1 and speed.
4) 5 stormboyz (12pts), 5 kommandos (9pts) & 1 deffkopta (25+10pts) are faster than 5pts grots at getting to an objective.
Try to live with 15 lootas and more expensive grots under better firepower. It is more liability facing certain codex.
Certainly the unit profile is not final, total accurate or conclusive.. I just get them from da internet.
Hi Titans, are you guys planning to make a new video with updated codex?
You know The painboy is elite right? It sounds like you think he is an HQ.... Love The video btw :)
Please do a genestealer cults edition!!
Absolutely! We need to have a long talk about them haha
Which HQ was in your first Ork list from the Supreme Command Detachment that you mentioned?
Killsaws!!! Kills saws everywhere!!
Brian needs to run a kopta list!
Can you guys make a more in-depth terrain explanation video?
please make one of these for custodes!
Hope you guys do a harlequin one of these.
Fantastic video. Hope you guys make Genestealers next
lol both lists have 10+ mek gunz, laaaame
I don't know if that was bad to have 10 mek gunz in 8th. But I think in 9th being a smaller map with more control markers. 2 or 3 guns with more units to rush the maps points. Is more important. And I think players we be moving their guns forward. Even if it's only 3" I think.
Don’t disparage the mighty Goffs Da Boss is watchin’
Sadly we can't play "more bodies than enemy bullets" with point increase...
Bravo 👏👏👏
Wait... Kustom force field works in combat now?!
They changed the warscroll for the Big Mek with KFF. His invuln is now Klan-specific and works in melee too.
As long as we don't get a FAQ or new codex, the KFF found on Morkanauts and similar are still the old version... so it's for ranged only but works on other Klans in a different detachment.
Yep! And as far as I can tell it is legit. I was waiting for it to get addressed but looks like we're good. As Monki mentioned though, its only on the mek on foot without mega armour
And then the FAQ hit us
These guys think painboy are HQ. So don't give them to much credit.
From my very short experience, it seems it’s absolutely essential that you go first (which hasn’t happened yet)
Did I miss something?
My biggest hope is for Thousand Sons becoming better as pure armies,Deathguard becoming better in general,World Eaters and Emporors Children getting their own codex's and getting Start Collecting boxes for other stuff too. Grey Knights,Custodians,Sisters of Battle etc. Thats all I want.
Awesome stuff! Been loving your videos about 9th.
BTW, will there be an IG video up anytime soon?
What about multiple units of 30 boys, all with unbreakable leadership (mob rule counting other nearby units mean Ld is going to be around 30, so they aren't going to fail any Ld tests)
Then da jump a unit into charge range every turn, swamp the board and auto win?
There's no way any army can remove 120+ boys with their tougness, invul saves and damage cancels.
That is literally what the green tide strategy is, and it was incredibly powerful at the beginning of 8th. The problem comes in because you need to be 9" from an enemy on all sides to jump in so if they castle up properly and dont give you that space there's nowhere for you to fit 30 boys other than directly in front of a massive gunline. Cross your fingers, hope you make the charge and kill 1 unit, because now you have 30 boys against their entire army. That being said it's still a wicked Distraction Carnifex
23:54 "You have to be more Morka then Gorka" GORKAMORKA damn that got my panties wet *Subscribed
super informative and well done thanks guys! for an old 'ere we go' veteran ork player just newly coming back to the faction for 9th , I am super excited
The literally got so much wrong in this video forget about what they said. For 1 Painboyz are elites not HQ.
Hey guys, love your faction guides for 9th edition. What's your opinion on Orkboyz in transports, like Trukks and Battlewagons for 9th? Do you think a mech Ork/Speedfreek army is going to be viable?
9.30. Where does everyone get this 30 dice roll from with the strategem? If the orks have been in combat they probably aren't 30 strong anymore, and with the new 1/2" engagement range they are highly unlikely to have everyone in range. It makes it sound so much better than it really is.
Right? its like those people that supposedly play in tournaments were never shot at and always have perfect engagements in melee and then are like ''melee is great what are you talking about''.
Engagement Range is 1".
1/2 is only for the second rank, which has to be within 1/2" of a model that is within 1/2"
@@TheTexasDice I'm well aware of that, that's why I stated 1/2" range, the only way to even remotely have a chance of getting 30 attacks. But still extremely unlikely.
Such a great video my dudes!
Great video as always!
Just one question, you often talk about the new rules for ruins and how much line of sight that gives you. But since terrain is defined before the battle, couldn't you just say you need to be "through" the wall to be in the terrain? So that you are actually inside the ruin instead of just touching the wall?
I love the presentation, but you got too many things wrong for this to be considered a good video.
- Painboys are elites and therefore not nerfed by the CP changes.
- Supreme command detachments can't even be used by Orks in their current state.
- New engagement range rules are the single biggest nerf to Orks, and you didn't even mention them.
Thanks for the feedback OverratedFool! I wouldnt be so quick to rule out Supreme command for orks, since we haven't seen if/what gains the SUPREME COMMANDER tag. New engagement rules aren't all bad for orks. Generally boyz are already not the killiest unit. New engagement means shorter charges up ruins, which is a massive plus for them.
If Orks even get a Supreme Commander. There's only 1 unit that has 1 the size, 2 the power, 3 the lore, 4 is the last HQ to get complete update in both rules and model. Ghazgkull Thraka.
Hears 20 grot : Blast buffs come to mind ; Wait you say bring more grots per squad letting your enemies show more dakka???
What orange is that? Is it ryza rust or what?
It's Orange from Vallejo air on top of white airbrush
Grotz have a disgustingly resilient,? from what, a doc? That works on grotz? If so our ork players gonna love this.
Hoping on the WH40k Ork train. Good timing too with 9th dropping. I bought a start collect Ork set and some loota's and the 8th codex. Will be getting the saga of the beast with my friend who's running space wolves. Any advice or tips for how to start building my army and what should be must haves like loota's from what I've seen?
Even against Blast Weapons Orks are still good in large numbers...
With the new KFF rules and maybe combined with a painboy 30 boys are a great thread...
Wait till you see the point rise we get, lol.
Given that games will be more holding objectives based, how good do y'all think a walker heavy list would work? I'm thinking 3 Gorkanauts, 9 Deff Dreads, and 12 Killa Kan amount of walkers here; just max out all the heavy armour.
I playtested this and in a Tin 'Ead detachment, they are now absolutely bonkers good!
But keep in mind that you need objective secured (Dis is Ours! Zog Off!) models, otherwise a single surviving enemy troop will just steal your objective. I recommend paying the CPs to get a detachment of Deathskullz. In there, every single Infantry model gets objective secured!
@@DerMitWieWoOhneNamen that's my main idea. I play mono Deathskulls anyway so having an extra detachment of infantry is the plan. The Deffs and Nauts clear out chaffe and can either charge forward and the infantry hold the poht or hold the point themselves and the infantry screen the enemy.
I need one of this for GSC, because right now I have no clue
Use neopyhtes in trucks to get units on the table and bikes if you can afford it. Put acolytes and metamorphs in ambush along with primus and kellermorph. Figure out where you need to go and what you need to kill, ambush right there. Use that 2 point strat to show up 9" then either move D6 or shoot, use that with the metamorphs, move into range with the hand flames, then use the 3 point strat where you show up 3" but can't charge, use that one for the primus, re-roll wound rolls of 1 with hand flames. Burn the unit, charge, add one to hit roll with primus, re-roll hits of 1 with banner, re-roll wounds of 1 with primus. No primaris marine unit can with stand that. I've taken down Redemptors with that. Do the same with kellermorph and acolytes on your next turn. Keep your bikes and trucks moving, try not to engage enemies with them. You can switch out your ambush units with abberants and their leader dude. I've done it, it can work.
Also, if you need to create a heavy support detachment of astra militarum using Basilisks and Hydra/Wyverns (Hydras for Eldars and Tau, Wyverns for Tyranids and Orks), like I said before, if you can afford it. Using this will create holes in their lines if the opponent has effective screening. After a turn of this shooting, they shouldn't have screening units anymore. In this case, lose any transports for your GSC.
Units to get for GSC, lots basic troops, kellermorph and primus, anything artillery based, the GSC dune buggies with the jackal alpha and Astra Militarum artillery units I mentioned. Don't bother patriarchs or magus.
Orks!!!
R.I.P. Evil Sunz
Any chance that we could see a video for chaos space marines?
When are you guys going to do Aeldari?
Just now :)
In your idea for a freebooter list , why would you take the gork over the mork out of interest ? I would have thought the Mork with kustomjob to boost to BS4 off bat would be better plus the 5+ always a bonus . I have never had much luck using my gork as a gork in games in 8th ,
Nice video I hope Death guard gets one
18:30, can you actually pre-measure in 9th edition?! I'm an oooold player (6th or 7th edition?) and am looking into getting my Greenies back into the fray again, so really appreciate your videos :).
Can we just talk about how good this army looks? What colours are being used here may I ask?
Will you do Tyranids or GSC?
at 9:50 why does he say Grots dont get killed in overwatch? something i missed?
What LOS changes? I thought the LOS stuff worked like ITC?
So ITC rules are gone, making way for the new obscuring rule, which is a huge change for us ITC players
Daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka
You mention "Fights First" abilities here towards the end of the "Speculative Charging" section. There are some issues with this, since those armies that have "Fights First" abilities often have them worded as such: "This unit fights first. If your opponent has charged or both players have 'fights first' rules, alternate *starting with the player whose turn it is.*" Unless those wordings change, fights first won't get to fight first when charged.
honestly surprised they didnt just put in "if both units have the 'fights first' rule, both players roll a d6, highest roll goes first every turn"
@@meganobgutzkraka2398 they effectively have. The player whose turn it is decides the order things happen in if rules like this affect both sides.
@Adrian Phillips - Do you have any general positioning tips for orks or ork boyz? I’m new to the game and would love info or links to help keep my ladz from getting blasted off the table from shooty armies.
Love 40k. All i would recommend is seeing more of the models. Watching 2 men talk isnt really what i want to see its not very dynamic. Like battle reports where im seing a stripey shirt more than the units. Fair play anyway
Why are Souped Up Shokka first turn hits bad now?
It's hard for the souped up shokka to be bad at anything hehe. It's still great, but it is much easier for the enemy to put big targets behind obscuring cover. Though a tank heavy army will still run out of room
Are you guys going to make a video for “How to play Daemons in 9th edition?
How to play Daemons in 9t Edition: don't.
It's pretty easy:
1. Don't
2. Take you demon models and play Age of Sigmar with them.
I'm kidding I love their look and I will probably collect them anyway, it just doesn't look good for them rules-wise.
Adrian do you still expect Freebootas to be a competetive list with the point increase on Flash gits? 27% on 10 Flashgitz and Baddruk
Is the full Deathskulls list available somewhere? Building my first list and it's quite overwhelming so would appreciate the guidance.
Is this relevant for playing now? I just grabbed the codex and saga of the beast so idk much
>play orks
> gronts and artillery
yeah no
This so sad, the state of orks and 8th an 9th
how many points are grots and boys, between blast and point increases they may not be viable in fun blobs :/
I think the Ork bikes are gonna be amazing in 9th
Not when those sm bikes exist lmao
@@gravyjones9746 the max squad the primaris bikes can be is 3. I think the 15 or so Ork bikes will be ok lol
🤦..... And I like the model kit. But still...🤦
Why do you keep the units in 18" for KFF? Its only a 6" aura. Thanks for the information :)
I doubt you still asking this question. But this video came out in 2020 almost 2 years exactly. But any one whom just watch this video. These guys just read the Codex. But without notice many of the rules changes at all. So many errors. Doing a whole section base on wrong information about a Big Mek Kustom force field(The KFF should do 6" of aura "that's a little more than 12" around the Men's base" which can be boosted with a extra 3" by big gob. And telling Orks not to charge. It was a lot of 8th edition thinking in a 9th edition meta.
When's the GSC video?
5pts per grot is the dumbest shit I've seen GW do, balance wise, in a good while.
Scale is incressed bruh to 3000. Small things like grots and termagants are now 5 but intercessors what are they like 20 plus weapons. ? Its all perspective
Im still planning to run an entire grot army with 180 grots in it. Is it stupid? Fuck yea. Is that gonna stop me from creating an army for Makari? Nope.
@Meme Boi and smaller the base points were, higher the percentage changes are.
Percentage is not all-inclusive measurement. It's very faulty.
@@coltonlong7562 that sounds absolutely majestic. Shame they'll get a reiver squad and everything's dead lol