Good points. I prefer hank on but, I am a dinosaur. Had roller furling and got rid of it because of the painful nature of maintenance and broken parts....
If you receive this, please reply. I have a Hunter26 with roller furling and hate it. My previous boat was a MacGregor 22 with hank on. Hank on is easy to work with and does not break. I sail the Great Lakes on my Hunter 26. These are really fresh water seas. I want to convert the roller furling to to hank on. Any advice, please? Thanks.
Seems to me, the discussion of hank on vs roller furling is similar to the discussion about pretty much everything on a boat: There is a balance to be found for each sailor, for each condition, for each lifestyle and each budget. Like everything on a boat, you make choices about convenience vs reliability, maintenance vs ease of use, safety vs cost, etc etc, and you weigh them all vs the type of sailing you plan to do (single handed ocean passages, or party boat coastal cruising?) and finally your budget. While no one answer applies to all people and all situations, you guys have done a very nice job of discussing the pros and cons of each method to help people make their own informed decisions. Nice video, you guys are one of the best channels out there for your informative, helpful content and laid back style.
My dad had both. His boat was a Pearson 39-2 with a cabin that has a raised roof (he was 6'4" tall and it was built for him). It had tiller and wind vane steering (aux rudder). His bowsprit was wide enough to walk on and had two stays; and then also had a mid stay (that he could detach) that attached just forward of the upturned dingy position on the fore deck. He had single furling jib that wasn't all that large. Then hank on sails his genoa and storm sail. He had a "hammock bag" to store the hanked on sail on the deck, but it actually dangled above the deck if he desired. He had a second bag with an asymetrical spinaker that he also kept on deck in a very large bag for sailing in the trades. Dad had the philosophy that if he couldn't fix it himself . . . he didn't want it on his boat. He wanted to be able to inspect and fix everything. So, for instance, all the chain plates were exposed and all the connections for toe rails and such could be seen from inside the boat.
I worked in a sail loft in New Orleans for a few years. Every time a storm came by, three to four headsails would show up in the loft in the succeeding days. Like clockwork. The furling line for the roller furler would fail, the sail comes unfurled and the high wind would flog the leech to pieces. Easily remedied by furling the headsail until the sheets wrap it three or four times. And also replacing furling lines often. Although I think roller furlers are great, they make life easy and get people out there, but I never saw that problem with hank-ons. 😉
Great advice. I just bought a boat and am having the furler removed and the genoa recut for hanks. The sailmaker even had a stash of bronze piston hanks that he let me have for a song. Like new sail, far fewer headaches. Thanks for a sailing channel that is no BS, just straight talk and good avice.
You guys make sense, and I agree. I used to have a boat with hanks no furler, and I used to envy those with a furler, but there is one exception I think, if you are a solo sailor.
video is five years old but topic still lives. 1. usual reason for having a roller furling jib is that's what the boat was designed and built around and, even from an insurance perspective, changing away from that becomes a task. 2. Insurance in Australia. Your comment is wrong today and it was five years ago. "Ten year rule" prevails but having older rigging does NOT mean you can't insure your boat, - just that cover for some aspects of rigging is compromised. Another aspect, you are talking about ocean sailing and Australian companies avoid insuring for any sailing in international waters so the difference is moot anyway; insurance sailing coastal and in while in port is fine, just beyond 12 miles out it's not. 3. Huge trend for racing is to use foils and to drop sails and that's for performance reasons. Sailors are also making their headsails reefable while still using foils - extra cringles at luff and clew and pull the sail down a bit. If you need a storm sail instead, the biggest part of the sail is already down anyway. Also so many boats are designed to allow in-mast furling of the main so the weight of a furled jib is quite so big a deal. 4. changing trends for headsails, with more specialization, even without a cutter rig (which I'd love to have btw). I have more of a working jib but I'd rather replace it with a narrower one with a lower clew, but that I can sheet INSIDE the shrouds so I can point higher I think the day of the deck sweeping, big genoa have gone and having a bow sprit with something like a Code Zero has taken over. 5. downhaul issue with a furler - why not just have one but with a furler, for emergencies, if you want one? Overall 1. Huge trend is towards having all lines to the cockpit on cruisers and that incudes having furlers on both stays with cutter rigs and the training along those lines is hard to "re-direct". Huge inertia to change insurer's attitudes that way too. I think that "oh no - can't leave the cockpit" is the wrong mentality as sometimes you have to and being familiar with working on deck is important. At the same time, especially as I mostly single-hand when sailing passage, I am constantly concerned for the tendency of the bows to corkscrew in waves so that, one momemt you can be launched into space and, the next you come back down to find the deck is no longer below you. Overall 2.I have a furling headsail but if I had a hanked headsail the probably wouldn't have changed from that either.
Soft shackles hanks up to 50 footer, furling above that when short handed. Soft shackle hanks can twist, allowing the folds to stack flat on each other and take less space ( less windage) at the bottom of the stay, They are also lighter aloft , cheap to replace (Make them on board), do not corrode, do not stain the sail, do not pinch fingers,
Through sheer coincidence and/or luck, i have found the perfect channel. Your videos are just what i needed. I am taking my first steps in making the sailing dream a reality, humble beginnings, so this kind of info is priceless. Thank you
I had hanked on sails for ~5 years, and have had rolling furling for ~8. Like most sailors, most of my sailing is coastal, and I almost always sail alone. I love roller furling! I generally agree with the points in this video, but hanked on sails were a lot of work. I kept my sails in the v berth, and I was constantly dragging sails out on deck and changing them as conditions changed. I would see boats sailing under jib/genoa alone, and wondered why anyone would sail with such an unbalanced sail plan that couldn't point. Now I know. Roller furling is SO easy. I can just sit in the cockpit, and roll out the sail. In ten years, I have had trouble furling my headsail twice. Once on my boat, and once on a charter in the BVI. In both cases, it was due to furling in high winds. Herbie is right about this, and it was a hassle. But that's twice in ten years, and I have saved many, many hours of sail changes in that time. I have had no other problems with roller furling. Like anything else, it's a trade off.
Thanks for your years of insight! The sail changes were a hassle which is why we keep ours hanked on with a foredeck bag that protects them from the sun. We added a reef so instead of changing sails, we could just move the sheets. It’s still a huge hassle, and so much more work than a roller, but we don’t have to switch out sails and bags and hanks... It is all a compromise 👍
@@RiggingDoctor Hi there. That's a comment I do not understand: imagine you want to keep a Solent and a Bigger Genoa "standby" on deck in a bag. I guess you need two different forestays to enable that if you keep them both hanked, even when waiting, on deck? What's the best option in the end: two forestays like on Imocas with two hank on sails attached and waiting to get risen? Or one forestay and a second foresail in a bag ready to replace the first sail? Many thanks! Great video.
I can see the "selling" point in roller furling. The salesman will point out how easy it is to sail from the comfort of the cockpit with a martini in your hand. He won't mention the point you brought out about all the weight aloft when the sails are furled. I would prefer keeping as much weight close to the center of gravity. It just makes sense to me. Thank you!
After helping many friends working on rigs in yards - way out there cruising - the key issue with RF is hiding failures in the headstay. RF is fine IF you inspect the headstay and forestay once a year. Story: Helping a friend on a Cherubini 44 with a drooping bowsprit. Took down the headstay and RF. Found the strap toggle at the lower end cracked through from edge to hole. Another strong blow and the rig comes down. This was the Head Stay! Bummer cruise dude. BTW: Mast was custom Goetz carbon fiber, worth more than my whole boat. Inspect the RF rig every year! Meaning down and disassemble. RF: More work on the dock, less at sea. HO: More work at sea, less at the dock. Also RF adds a lot of windage forward when docking, especially if RF on code -0- & genoa & solent or staysail.
This has confirmed my reservations! I have hank on now, but have been coveting roller furling, and planning to "upgrade" my Venture 25 to furling at some point. My main reservation had been loosing the ability to sheet inside of the shrouds while flying the jib. I'm almost always single handed and do a lot of close tacking. I've all but given up on the Genoa. It's much harder to handle, and does not point to windward nearly as well. It's a nightmare close tacking with the Genoa through channels to avoid all the shoals in my home waters (Kentucky Lake). I was aware of some of the other potential pitfalls, but it's wonderful to have them so thoroughly explained. Thanks for the confidence booster to stick with hank on. Be a lot cheaper to add a down haul, and some sort of bag so I can keep it at the ready....
I've used hank on sails for decades on my venerable old Bristol, but have been telling myself that getting older, maybe it's time I go with roller furling. But after watching your discussion, adding a downhaul is the answer! Personally I love the joy of hoisting the headsail and don't want to start getting lazy now that I'm pushing 70! Also- thanks for your great dyneema splicing video- excellent.
I really wouldn’t go back to furling. We are young and have struggled harder than ever on friends boats when their furler failed. It was more of a struggle than we have ever had in a week of stormy sail changes!!
I totally agree! Plus, it is much quicker to get hank on sails down. In a night squall, 50 knot wind out of nothing, every second counts. Plus, the sail reduces its surface DOWN (instantly), not towards the middle (slowly). Plus, I can do it ten seconds after waking up. No brain needed. Plus, cheaper. Plus, all the points you mentioned already. My first boat had a roller, because of bow sprit. My second and third did not, missed not, even though last one was 30 metric tons. Now, my fourth boat (55 feet) I am taking off the roller before even going to sail one mile. Rollers are good for the companies making them. Never ask a hair cutter if you need a hair cut....
I have had my boat for 47 years and have watched the development of roller fueling head sails and their problems but never had a problem with Hank on sails. Hughes 38 with tall rig.
Coastal sailor here. I've had boats with both systems. I was always concerned about maintaining the roller system. My current boat is hank on. It was harder to sail single handed -until someone told me about downhauls. Duh. Now I run a downhaul all the way back to the cockpit and life is good and easy. It was such a cheap and easy fix.
When the sailmaker test fitted our jib, he thought the downhaul was a waste of time and effort. The wind picked up while the sail was up and the pressure on it would let it drop. Then it started flapping around the deck making it dangerous (even in the slip) to go forward and pull it down. The look on his face when I pulled it down with the downhaul that he said was unnecessary was priceless!
Hello, I agree it's a wonderful "trick" this downhaul but you still need to go ahead of the mast to tie the flapping jib down or stow it away in it's bag... and then it's in the way when you need to access the chain locker or the windlass or the ancor...
My wife and I have had 7 sailboats in over 40 yrs of sailing (not counting the Sunfish I sailed before we were a couple), and only 1 of them had roller furling. I don't enjoy foredeck work in rough weather, but nevertheless prefer hank on foresails...and I'm a coastal and Great Lakes sailor. Some proponents may point out the 'continuously variable' sail size advantage of roller furling, but I prefer to carry multiple headsails that each provide performance optimized for their respective wind ranges. I want a smaller, flatter foresail (and one that I have zero doubt can be doused) when the wind is strong. A related topic is the recent explosion of in-mast roller furling. Anyone who has experienced jamming of their furling line in the drum after deploying a roller furled jib can probably imagine the excitement that will ensue if a similar jam occurs with in-mast furling. I am beginning to shop for our next ('retirement') boat, and don't look seriously at those equipped with in-mast furling. I am reminded of a friend's maxim: Simplicity is the mother of reliability.
One of my friends got caught in a blow and the main jammed halfway into the mast. Shredded his sail because he couldn’t get it in! I’ve had my roller genoa furl up different sizes based on how much tension I had on the sheets as it rolled. I can’t imagine HAVING to have it an exact size or it will jam situation. One other thing, I have found me to be more cautious in heavy weather about putting up more headsail. We ran down the east coast from Charleston SC to Florida by going out in strong cold fronts. We made the passage with good speed using our trysail and staysail. I had times when I thought about adding the jib for some extra go! Walking up on the deck I quickly decided that I don’t want to come up here if it got worse to bring it down, so I just left the sailplan as is. Adding sail in 30+ knots would have been reckless and hank on kept me from doing something stupid! Thanks for sharing your experiences 👍
Don't throw the baby with the bath water, please. Both hank-on and furling have advantages and disadvantages. it depends what it's used for and how it's used. That's why ocean going race boats carry and use both types. The furling line jamming is no longer an issue with flat deck continuous line furlers or structural furlers with flat webbing strap. In any case if one has to use the winch to furl a head sail, then he's not doing it right.
Thank you for your comments, and in particular about the in-mast furling. I have always counseled against in-mast furling for the very reasons you mention. I am less concerned about in boom furling, since it can be lowered with a reasonable degree of certainty versus in mast furling. I also don't like the idea of all that weight up top. A few years ago while at the Annapolis Boat Show I spoke to a dealer about in mast furling and he said that it rarely fails, and that is true. I asked him if he ever had it happen and he said only twice in twenty years. Hmm, for me that is twice too often. Again, in coastal sailing/day sailing that is not likely to be an issue. For passage making I wouldn't risk it, especially given how accurate Murphy's law it! In all fairness, any system is fine if used properly, IF one recognizes the limitations and IF one has a reasonable work around. In case anyone is wondering, I have used both, and own both. Two of my boats have roller furling/reefing for the foresail, and one has hanked on sails. I like both systems, but recognize the unique character of both.
I agree with you, old school sailors were no dummies. I'm sure the idea was thought of years ago of rolling the sail up, but, practicality of it was not as sharp as the idea.
I've sailed with both and in my experience in a storm even with a downhaul that jib is going places and causing problems unless there is some way to bag it. Bouncing up and down in some heavy swell hanging on for dear life while trying to secure it is no fun. That said if the furler breaks in similar conditions it is an even bigger hassle but if it doesn't then you can furl from the cockpit and go on about your business. Ideally in either situation you shortened sail ahead of time and also ideally you keep up on your maintenance so the furler or your hanks are not as likely to be a problem. This is also an argument for a ketch/cutter rig since you have more options for less sail. Most are relying on weather reports and feeling pretty safe but if you are concerned about those not being sufficient then maybe consider other options. Nowadays you can also get furlers with 2 slots so you can change sails more readily.
I've never had roller furling but I don't mind the little bit of 'extra' work in hanking on a sail....in fact I kind of like it. It is part of sailing. I guess it is one of those things where at some point, "what is the point". I don't normally want to sit in the cockpit with a martini. I like to actually sail and be pat of every thing the boat is doing and feeling. I've never had a problem lowing a hank-on sail and don't mind going up to the bow. I live and sail on the outer west coast of Canada where winds change rapidly and dramatically at times so also have twin headstays and always keep a smaller sail on the resting stay for quick reefing if needed. I have sailed on other boats with roller furling and it sometimes feels like just going along for the ride. However, I also try not to motor into anchorages, but sometimes spend an hour or mores squeaking every last bit out of the wind and room to get there under sail. It all depends on what turns your particular crank really, but I can see no reason to switch to roller furling - for need or fun.
Hi, Thanks for bringing the discussion in. You also have to think of an in between solution used by most racing sailors. That is, the stay with an aluminium/plastic profile but without the furler drum. The profile normally has two tracks, allowing the feeding of 2 sails at the same time. Normally one up while the other is on the way down. Hank-on don’t give the best luff profile of the sail. And performance sails benefit from the interrupted luff line, that otherwise is always a bit baggy on the hank on sails. But yes the way of storing and setting sails in this set-up is very similar to hank-on sails. All the best, Carlos
Yep...I totally agree with you....long,long time ago I sailed with Dudley Dix in a few races,when he was still living in Cape Town.I worked the foredeck and it was only a pleasure to have a foil which could accommodate two sails side by side,by means of bolt ropes on the luffs of the sails. I could then hoist a sail inside a sail, before bringing the working sail down,thus not losing any boat speed whilst "changing gears" up front.Some times I worked as mastman and spinnaker flyer, gatherer and bagger. Happy memories..😊😊
I used to own a 20' laguna Windrose. It had hank on jib sail. I loved it. Never had a problem. The sail would drop fast every time. I now own a 30' Catalina with a roller furling. It is seized up. I'm thinking of taking the roller furling off and getting hanks put on my jib sail. Thanks for the video!
Good points to consider, at least on small to mid-sized boats. Actually, I always enjoyed hanking on the headsails, but it can be a dangerous situation if a squall makes up suddenly, and you have to go forward on a wet, pitching deck. Of course, as you pointed out, reef early, and avoid the drama. Thanks.
I have used both systems and definitely Hank on is best for reducing problems if things start to go wrong. Now I have rolling main and rolling Genoa. I’m happy with this solution day to day - but, it is necessary with regular maintenance. Prevent problems that you mention. Admittedly not 100% guaranteed problem free. But not bad. So what is my reason for being happy? Well if I had hank on I would need several sails and I have a family on board and the extra asymmetrical spinnaker is already moved around as we use different parts of the boat. More sails would be difficult. I actively use my cover for the rolled Genoa, so risk of wind unrolling is taken away and allows me to drop the UV protection on the sail. And always on board sail bungees in case the wind gets up and I want to give extra protection without too much time on the fore deck. In addition as I get older and the children complain more I can easily control the motion of the boat whilst sailing, no real effort and safe. If I was to race again - I’d use hank on - obviously ;-)
Kiss is the way to go when sailing and owning a boat!!Modernity dosen't suit always! OLDER SYSTEMS ive found are best especially when fitting out!Less is more!!Geez , don't get me started!!
I've always preferred hank on sails, I grew up sailing small boats with hank on jibs and tall ships with multiple hank on foresails (with downhauls). When I was younger it seemed like I'd want roller furler on my own next bigger boat, but having sailed a number of different yachts up to 45 feet or so, a few with roller furlers, in firmly in the hank on camp still :) I've raced a bit on a Luffe 4004 that had an under deck mounted furler with the entire stay rotated through a ball joint in the deck, with the furler line running under the deck to the cockpit in a curved tube. That was probably the most expensive furler I've used, and also the absolute worst one up use. We basically had to use a winch for the furling line even in very light breeze... It looked good though :p That boat also had a ~100sqm gennacker on an endless line furler, worked okey sometimes, but it was a lot of hard work to get it furled. And the one time we split the sail after pressing to hard after a rounding, it just didn't work to furl it.. I'll be going hank on self tacking jib on my Wasa 55 build, with 1 or 2 full battens (don't remember what the sail actually has) :). I'll be sure to have a downhaul and already have a sailbag for the job to stay on the forestay.
I love my roller furling sail, on my small 17 footer. Fantastic and easy single handing. I could see the issues with weight, ocean crossing, but I'm pretty sure I won't be doing that in an unballasted pocket yacht
I'm really glad you ran this vid. I have been considering getting a roller furling on my 25' C&C that I only said it about 10 times a year. I think I will stick with hanks.
I gotta say, the video really challenged my assumptions on a roller furling being the default way to rig a headsail. Your points were very compelling. I too have found a spinnaker staysail very easy to hoist and caught myself wondering why the jib should be any different. I will have to do some deep thinking before spec'ing a roller-furler in the future. Thank you!
I have a 38 ft cutter ketch with hank on sails. Years ago I bought a furler thinking to put it on the jib. Used fuller. It is still in the shed and will probably get sold. As per the Pardeys I rigged a downhaul on the jib. We put on Wichard hanks which are stainless and only require one hand. The boat has softeyes around the mast and I plan to replace aft lowers on the main with line so your videos are very helpful. Thanks so much. SV Shambala. Ann B 04 24 21
As a retired naval aviator who now sails I prefer hank on. To me having a roller furling is like flying an airliner, no fun. Hank on is like a fighter pilot, a real pilot.
Hello. Very many good points, good argumentation in favor of hank-on sails. And I agree with the notion that coastal sailing (at least near populated areas) means one has access to riggers and sail makers etc.... OK BUT: the problem with hank on sails, for me, is not the extra amount of work contrary to what you've mentioned right at the beginning of your presentation (1:18). The problem with hank on sails is the space the bags take up front when you're at ancor: having a cutter rig makes it even more cumbersome. Up front, you have the jib bag, the drifter in a bag, maybe a second jib of smaller size (if you don't have or don't want to have reef points on the jib: by the way, reefing properly a gib does mean you need to go up front when the weather is getting bad) and just back of that: another bag containing the stay sail.... When you want to pull your ancor in or just go and check for chafing on the ancor rode , those bags are in the way (especially on small boats) When you say that a downhaul makes it easy to pull the sail down, I don't agree that you can do all that standing near the mast: you still need to go to the front of the boat and bag the whipping sail in it's bag. Here's my combo: strong staysail on roller furling, a fairly small strong (heavy) well prepared (think foam padding and triradial panels) roller jib, code D on it's own stay nicely "folded" against the side front deck: I believe the weight of aparatus is largely compensated with ease of use and space on deck but to each his own. Have a good day.
We’re coastal sailors in British Columbia. Love the furler, works like a dream most of the time. But when the wind pipes up you can reef the Jenny only so far before the shape deteriorates. So we’re adding a removable Solent stay, just behind the forestry. When the wind picks up, we’ll attach the Solent stay to the deck fitting, hank on the heavy weather jib and raise it. Fingers crossed it all works. Really looking forward to the hanks and a deck bag, that system worked well on our previous old woodie with no furler. But overall, I’d say, furlers are great it’s kind of like having an extra person on the boat. But all your points are soooo valid….nothing is without a tradeoff.
You guys have a good system there! For coastal sailing furlers are convenient, and for ocean storms, you have a hank on storm jib. Sounds like a really nice compromise between the two setups 😎
I'm a novice sailor but Hank on to me just seems safer. Especially because my wife and I are planning blue water in our future. Anything complicated can become a big deal when on the water. Simple (design) is always safer and easier to fix in the middle of the water.
I recently acquired a Jim Brown trimaran set up for cruising, and equipped with a “superfurl” headsail system. I have sailed with both hank and roller headsails and I do enjoy the convenience of simply rolling up the headsail, especially when single handed. But I was reminded just yesterday, while hoisting a new headsail into the roller track, how a furlong system can cause serious problems when things go wrong. I had the sail half way up and the upper section of the foil track separated, leaving the sail impossible to get up or down without taking the entire system down. Fortunately this happened while on the morning ball, but the potential for damaging the entire rig was real. I’ve decided I won’t put the roller system back on the trimaran for a few reasons: the ability to run different headsails, the ability to douse the sail no matter what, and it will be easier and cheap to just put up a new forward stay.
i´ve always regarded hank on as a more efficient type of sail: better shape; less heeling; better overall performance. one quick look at the shape of a in mast furling main sail and, yeah, it catches wind, but that doesnt equate to sailing....properly. your question was about which one was better, but that is a matter of opinion. we can observe that hank on, thru shape, give better performance but is that the ultimate factor?! specially when your main crowd are cruisers, ie, not time/performance oriented. Sure, we all want and like efficiency but then confort, handling, crew (as someone also pointed out), come into play. Some people say, hank on is the proper way to go offshore, yet, another quick look at it and we would possibly see that the vast majority of cruising people use roller/furlers. are they wrong? personally what makes or breaks (also literally) is the kind of boat hull you decide upon, and your ability, because when things go pear-shaped it dont matter if you hank on, roll or furl, so long you know what you r doing and what must be done. there are also 2 kinds of people, the ones for whom any activity is work and the ones for whom its exercise ;)
I have replaced all the chainplates on my boat except for the Headstay plate, however I have not replaced the stays themselves. What would you recommend is the life expectancy for a Headstay chainplate as well as realistic life range of stays. Replacing stays every 10 years seems pretty short lived as long as they are inspected and don't show defects seems they should be good to continue use. Finally, does raking the mast back help keep the Headstay in better shape?
I'm usually suspicious of the word "better" and always suspicious of it when used to criticize something as widely used and accepted as roller furling. There's almost always a latent assumption that there is a best solution that fits all needs and that assumption is invariably wrong. I acknowledge that you recognize that roller furling has a place in coastal sailing but really that's entirely too limited a concession. To begin with most people don't have cutters. They're more common among cruisers of course for good reason but the reality is most boats aren't cutter rigged and for a variety of reasons a cutter rig isn't an option even for most offshore cruisers just because it's not the boat they have. Hank on sails are much more challenging for folks with one headsail. And the difficult is compounded for those who are older or otherwise less fit physically. That's true even with a cutter rig. A suit of purpose made hank on sails will give you a more efficient sail shape as you reduce sail than rollers but it is more physical work than a sensibly used roller. A whole lot more if you have one headsail. This means that for a lot of people -- even a lot of cruisers -- notwithstanding the problems you point out, rollers will be a better choice. I think your claim that bronze wing chafe stainless also should have at least a limited qualification. It's just not always the case, when metals rub against each other, that the softer one wears. In fact sometimes the opposite is true. Where there's any kind of abrasive in the picture it can become embedded in the softer metal and then the softer metal becomes something like an emery board. In dusty environments then -- especially if you let your hanks get grimy -- there could be chafe to the headstay. It's a non problem out at sea of course but at least possible along dusty coasts. In the end, as in most things, the right solution is the one that works for you and is inevitably going to depend on who you are. As for me, like you I have a cutter rig with hank on sails. Will that always be true? Ask me in twenty years -- I can't know now.
A bright guy once said, "Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler." Too many things are overengineered, such as your interminable post. You should always want rigging that minimizes fouling. When you find that you can no longer hoist a hanked-on jib, sail a Sabot and forget headsails. Stay aloof, mate.
I have sailed my old boat, for the last 18 year, with hanked on sails. I have 3 sails: 1 100%, a 120%, and a 140%. I mostly single hand, and have all the lines lead back to the cockpit. I used to have a down-haul rigged, but it would stick, so I usually just run up to the bow and pull it down. I store one sail in a "jib ready" bag on the deck, and can be ready to sail in minutes. My new boat came with a Stream Stay furler where the foil extrusion _is_ the fore stay. I am re-rigging the boat, and I am planning to install a furler. It makes it easier to single hand. It gives me the ability to reef (sure, the shape isn't as good, but it's better than nothing). I could talk for a long time about the trade-offs between these two. I have sailed with both. There isn't room here.
We have reef points in our headsails and they really are a pain to set. Usually if the job needs a reef, we just drop it and run the staysail. We have only put reefs into the headsails a handful of times. For single handing and general ease, you can’t beat a simple furling line ;)
This is a really helpful video. Thanks so much! Makes me think twice about heading offshore with a roller furler, especially an older furler. I think I’d rather set the capehorn and go forward to hank on the storm jib, even solo. Or better yet, have a staysail storm jib ready to go. Ha! You had me at downhaul and drifter :-) :-) :-)
Hi, loved your video on hank on sails versus roller furler. You may even like our set-up. We have only 3 headsails now down from 5 & all hank on. No 1 Lite out of 6.9oz Hydranet that reefs down to No1 Heavy, just a lace up reef & in a radial cut. This replaced a 5oz No1 Lite & a 12oz No1 Heavy both in dacron & cross cut. Of course they were old & the new sails way out preforms the old ones, 20% faster & with more ease & comfort. We have a 7 Ton loaded Lock Crowther 44' dagger board cat with a rotating mast & can now usually sail at not far below wind speed ie blowing 4 kns & we're doing 3kns. Our next sail is a square top, fully battened blade headsail that self tacks & is a real deck sweeper when not reefed, out of 9oz Hydranet, radial cut again, that is also reefable & covering an extra heavy No 1, No 2 & No 3, all sheet from approx the same place, give or take for tuning as the clew rises up as the sail reefs so this can occur & waves can pass under the sail as the wind gets up & the sea state worsens. On both sails we also use barber haulers when off the wind. All sails are cut for windward work as we don't want to be carrying too many heavy sails on a performance catamaran & feel even a bed sheet will go down wind so to speak. With the No1 Light hanking it on so doesn't have to pass over the Seagull striker like sails out on a prodder, so it can be sheetedvin in close, a proper forestay so great Luff tension & it's much easier to tack as it doesn't have to pass around in front of the fore stay. The square top blade is such that it will tack without getting hung up on the diamond's & having to drop it down a bit to facilitate tacking. The twist keeps all the power down low where it's just driving the boat forward & not driving the bows down & causing the yacht to hobby horse & in extreme conditions trying to bury the bows & put you end over end. Also as you reef the head sail, you are lowering the center of effort, the same as with your Main Sail so all your drive is down low where you want it. Our Main is also Square Top, fully battened & radial cut, 9oz Hydranet. Both the Main & the Blade head Sail drop into lazy bags with the head Sail bag being held up by the Seagull striker ie front beam stiffener come bridal & the mid & rear of the bag are held up be lazy lines that run through an eye at the Luff about a meter & a half above the 3rd reef & pulled up & down by a block & tackle that can also act as a down haul to get the sail down if things get a little out of hand. This has a cam cleat at the Seagull striker or can be lead back to the mast by a turning block & made off to a cleat so you can raise & lower the lazy bag when pulling reefs in & out. It just drops into the bag or pulls out no need to lace the sail up when you reef. The sheets just snap on & when changing the reef the lazy sheet just becomes the new sheet & is rethreaded. Our blocks can take 2 sheets & the next reef's clew can be reached while standing on the deck so you never have to drop the sail onto the deck to reef. Our next sail is our stand alone storm jib. The storm jib & the No 1 Lite/Heavy both have deck bags like the lazy bag so they can stay hanked on or attached to the trap tie offs with snap shackles or just be put down below via a big hatch. Being reefing sails they hold a much better shape than a roller furling sail, less weight aloft, lower center of effort & the best thing is you can easily check the forestay swage at anytime. We check our rig every time we go sailing as with the rotating rig we find it can go through rigging at a quicker rate than non rotating. We also have a 1/2oz symmetrical kite for lite down wind stuff & a 1oz Asymmetrical kite, that's great for taking down wind. You can almost reach with this sail in lite conditions. No screacher to come unfurled in a storm & have to fight like a wild Anaconda. Hanks Alot for your video & views, we couldn't agree more. Ian & Margie. Gotcha Covered
I bought a 20 ft trailer sailer this spring. My first sail boat. Sailing in the Swedish archipialago. It has hank on head sails. One 90% jib and a 130% genua, I guess. I go by the weather forecast and route. If it will be over 7 m/s, outside the islands or will change to worse later, I go by the jib. And keep i the whole day, if it not totally calm down. I am in no hurry. Only twice this summer, I had to change from genua to jib. One of them I just droped the genua and went with only the main sail the last few nm. As an outdoorsman (kayaking, hiking, mountaineering) I like solutions you can repair in field with few resources. The KISS rule always apply. Simple solutions = simple damages = simple repair. Everything with small springs, some plasic pegs, moving parts or batteries will eventually break and when they do it will be at the worst thinkable moment. No chance to find a new part or bring spares for everything. Simple solutions can be repaired with your shoe laces, a piece of wood, a tent peg and some tape. It will do for the rest of your holiday, until you come home.
Well I was about to write a short essay extolling the virtues of hank-on sails when you mentioned that bit about motoring in circles to furl the sail back up and I just about fell over. It probably works for all I know, but just the thought of driving in circles for about 30 revolutions strikes me as hilarious.
Great discussion. I have used both. I will use Hank on when ever possible. My boats have all been hank on. I have used rol!refueling when on other boats than my own.
I personally prefer hanks over roller furling for offshore work, that said I have a furler with a 155 that has a foam luff. I'm probably going to go back to to hanks soon maybe this spring. I like having the correct sail on or no sail no windage. It is real easy to get lazy with a furler but when you need to change down or just take it down in a blow its a hand full, hanks are attached to the boat until you remove them it's a nice system and its old school.
single handed sailor i use hank on for ease and reliability, especially heavy weather, and a 150 hank on genoa is a bit more work, but i like it, massive amount of canvas which restricts vision in crowded areas, head upwind, let go the wheel, go forward and they are down in 5 seconds, hank on storm sails put up before the bad weather with downhaul to cockpit, fall off and back in business, no going to bow duckdiving through waves, I dont think furlings are made for waves, the foot of my stay is only 7 or 8 feet off the waterline, then there is the resistance applied to the stay in a rollover or knockdown from a roller furling
A word of caution to newbies, sailing is not for the faint of heart, I've know folks who bought a boat, had a scary day and nite at sea, and sold the boat. It's scary out there. sail on a large lake for a few years before you attempt to go out on the Big Blue Bitch. BTW, regardless of the rigging, if you don't know how to use it, it won't matter.
Thanks . Great and informative. I'm looking at a racer / cruiser which has twin groove Tuffluff and I was thinking of fitting a furler as I convert the Yacht into more of a cruiser / racer. Of course fitting a furler means dumping or altering all the headsails that come with the boat and purchasing a new genoa... listening to this you have convinced me to keep the Tuff Luff and sail with a mix of jibs .
Elevated weight STILL degrades righting moment, of course, but since you'll probably never get close to your "tipping point" anyway that weight aloft will just be stress on the standing rigging and little else. But then again,.. who wants stress?
When I rigged my previous yacht I set up a cutter rig with a twin forestay system with two sizes of yankee jibs permanently hanked on for ocean passages allowing for rapid sail changes and left the sails permanently on deck in long sausage bags that zipped along the top. Easy ,quick and tidy. Changed to roller after we returned home to NZ which was great for short sails around the coast but am now back to hanks on the new boat, no big deal on the foredeck and I'm 70 next birthday, keeps me fit.
I think you've under played the issue of storing a hank on jib/Genoa. I'd have liked to have heard more about it. You make great arguments for hank on, and but I'd have liked to hear more about storage.
We have a turtle bag on the deck and the sail is stowed stuffed into the bag on the deck and still hanked on. I just drop the sail, flake it, and roll it up; then stuff it into the bag 😎
Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a new to me Corsair F-31 with a hank-on jib. I'm used to a roller furling on my smaller Nacra 5.8 which I use fully deployed or fully furled, never reefed, and I always removed the sail at the end of the day which is a hassle. I am planning on changing the F-31's jib to a furled system but since the boat is already set up with the hank-on jib, we'll give it more consideration. If it works out we could save a bunch of money not converting it. I did find another video on how to reef a hank-on jib so we'll test that out too. Aloha, Cullen
In my view, roller furling is like having automatic transmission whereas hank-on is like manual. I agree that roller is good for coastal cruising, especially if you go out on relatively short jaunts single handed, where you deploy and take in the sail frequently. Many people use roller furling as a means of infinitely variably reducing sail area to meet wind conditions, which often results in a sub-optimal sail shape. Most people don't realize that for a typical genoa you should not furl it down more than 20 %, beyond which you severely distort the sail. If you need a smaller area, you should switch to a smaller headsail, and, like you said, that is a bear to change over on a roller furler in the conditions where you need to do so. That's where hank on sails really come into their own. Also, I note that die-hard racers prefer hank-on sails.
Im getting my standing rigging replaced next week. Im having the roller furler removed and switching to hank on. I just like the idea of it being mechanically more simple. No furler ropes to jam or break, no bearings or swivels to rust, no struggle to drop the jib in high winds. I just think the positives outweigh the negatives. Removing the furler is one less thing to maintain or break.
Yeah, I see what you're saying, but a lot of it boils down to, "too many people don't inspect or care for their furling units and expect them to work when the crap hits the ventilator." Rigging can still be inspected with a roller furler, too, you just have to take a look at it periodically. Hank-ons have their own problems. Going up front in a storm, getting bounced around and having waves break on you is sort of a pain and dangerous. Unless you've rigged a downhaul up through the hanks, pulling the sail down can be a real problem, too. Loaded up, the sail doesn't always come down quickly or easily. I've been knocked down by a sudden squall before on a hank on boat, and trying to get the genoa down by hauling on the foot was a nightmare. Much easier to shorten sail with a roller furler. I wouldn't look at a boat without one.
All good points, thanks for sharing! We always rig a downhaul up through the hanks and have never had a problem. Squalls do come on super fast, so it can be hard to prepare, but for regular storms, we tend to have our storm sail plan ready we'll in advance ☺️
I have a Furler with no Sail. I have Hank on Sails(a new to me Boat ) Now, after this video, I believe it would be much better for me to take the Furler off. My Wife and I are new Sailors,(I taught Sailing on 16 footers when young at a summer camp for three years ). Having instructors at our Marina we've become pretty good and sail many of our friends boats while they have cocktails and relax, we've not sailed our own boat yet, a 30 foot 1981 Seidleman. We are the third owners and the hank on sails. A storm and racing jib were stored by the first owner and never came out again. Until this video, I was going to have a sail made, but think it would be much better to use what we have. Thanks for the heads up, great points.
I have hank on sail on my boat. I've just bought it and it's my first sailboat. I haven't been able to set sail yet, I have some issues with one of my spreaders, and right now I have my hands full with other projects on the boat, so my TH-cam videos focuses on engine stuff at the moment. Then sail drive and basic electrical... After that I guess I'll get to my rigging, and all this time I've been looking at furling systems, I guess you guys just convinced me to give the hank on a try, that sure makes the budget look a whole lot prettier. Thank you so much.
How many sails do you tend to take with you? And how often do you find you have to reef the headsail? I've just bought a Vancouver 27... and I've never sailed a cutter. So do you just tend to drop the jib and run the staysail to reef?
Lin Pardey said it in a conference. Being how she is from NZ and sails in Australian waters, I didn’t verify it. Can’t find any info on it with a google search. Guess it’s not true.
Rigging Doctor she is a very credible source. All of my sailing at the moment is coastal 8 year old rigging and no issues getting insurance (in Oz) but I guess it could be a requirement for offshore sailing but haven’t heard of it. Anyway love the channel guys keep it up 👍🏼⛵️.
New subscriber here. Great vids with great explanations. Thanks for all that you do. I’m relatively new to sailing and about to upgrade from my ‘74 Pearson 26. Looking at Hunter 37C. The staysail boom is not available and it’s forestay and chainplate has been removed. Can I replace that forestay and add a hank on storm jib to supplement the roller jib? Thx
Welcome aboard! The setup you describe is a very common one. The inner forestay has a hank on storm jib while the headstay has a roller furling headsail. You literally get the best of both worlds! The ease of roller furling when you are sailing around, and the reliability of a hank on storm jib when it’s nasty out. One little trick, if you ever need to fly your storm jib, take a moment to put a few sail ties around the furled Genoa. If the furling line breaks for any reason, the sail ties will help hold the sail furled up to prevent a catastrophe. If you can reach the clew, a sail tie through the clew and around the furled sail will keep you golden during the storm 😉
Agree with everything you've said and can add this. I have a cutter rigged 33 footer and out of total of 6 hanked-on sails that i have, only one I've had made to size and paid a full price for. All others were in new conditions either donated by racers, where a smaller boat owner would give up a perfectly sized sail for my cutter stay or in other cases where I've paid the most $150 for. In all cases, I didn't ask for it - it was offered to me and I just couldn't pass. And to riff head sails, I just tack without releasing the wotking line, allowing it to backwind, letting the sail drop across the deck and then, hoist the other one on the opposite tack - it is very easy in pretty much any condition. Fair winds to all and please, riff earlier 🙏
Interesting, I come from mostly racing sailboats. Our new to us 1990 Van de Stadt 34, steel hard chine, came with a 30 year old roller from a Nederland Co. I kept it and had a 120 made for it. We love it. Bigger than 120? Roll it, and add a drifter with a sown-in dynema line (that serves as a stay) to the bow fitting, hoist it on the #2 halyard. Heavier weather? Roll in the 120 some. Heavier? Roll-up the 120, raise a small jib with dynema line sown in the sail, hooked on the bow fitting and hoist it on the #2 halyard. Real heavy? (40+ knots) Get the roller sail down and stored away with small jib up. I raced on boats where we carried 11+ headsails. With some lost efficiencies, I can do the same conditions with three sets of sails. The weight aloft, I agree, is significant. It is a simple triangulation calculation, one pound of meat 5ft from centerline at deck level vs. one pound of weight 5-10-30-50 up the mast. Know your boat. It is rarely the boat's fault. We sail the PNW. Cheers, a.
I’m taking care of my parents, health issues and dementia my dad was not a nice person so he has a evil dementia. They’re raising my nephew that just put only abuse financial and physical so I did something crazy I bought a sailboat. I always wanted to sailboat. My daughter said when she was a baby, but I totally forgot, the boat is a good the boat is a good diversion. I never sealed before. I don’t know what anything is just watching TH-cam videos and I have a great passion for it. I guess I always have, but I always do for others if I get myself I got a awesome deal on a Pearson 23 it has a sliding keel the sails had more holes on it then Holy roller I really like your videos. You’re a professional as a rigor. My boats been sitting out for 25 years and the ropes don’t look too good. I’m wondering if they are savable or it looks like a rats nest? How much rope would I need to re-rig the boat? I just discovered what a rolling Furler is. Lol we appreciate some help of possible. A caretaker was taken care of this person and things disappeared from the boat so I don’t even know if I have all the parts what’s your recommendation
On a boat that size, the replacement ropes will not be that expensive so I would definitely recommend starting fresh. Ropes are normally replaced every 10 years, so 25 years is a bit past the normal usable lifetime for the ropes. I would recommend talking to a local rigger to have them replace the “running rigging” and probably the “standing rigging” as well for you. Have them set it up so that you can use it and start off having fun instead of starting off by troubleshooting everything that breaks.
I'm still building my boat from a bare hull. It's a heavy displacement cruiser. Hank on is the only way to go off shore. I never thought of hoisting a smaller sail over the larger bagged genoa. Thanks .. keep the videos coming.
@@RiggingDoctor John Brandlmayr ... Spencer 42 .. I'm not in the water and so far loving my hank on. I've not sailed in anything stronger tha 15kts. I head into the wind to douse the sail. So far so good .. single handing. Biggest problem is keeping the boat pointed into the wind.
Been sailing for 48 years with hanked on headsails: Working jib, a drifter, a 130 genoa and last but not least a 210 genoa. When I drop the head sail I leave it hanked on and bag it or lash it to the rail. For years folks have been trying to get me to switch to roller furling and I politely say "No thanks". Because when all hell breaks loose... shit happens. I subscribe to the keep it simple stupid. By the way I'm 84 and when and if the day comes that I can't hoist the sails I'll pack er in
Hi guys, congrats to your channel,... I understand most of your comments on the topic and appreciate it very much. I am sailing on an Oceanis48 with a roller furler on the forestay and a hank on storm jib on a REMOVEABLE inner forestay.(which we leave permanently in action). I am planning right now to change the hanked on storm sail on the inner stay for a second roller furler,....but all your arguments bring me back to square one :-) The tensioning mechanism at the inner stay is about 120cm long, which makes it impossible to bring the hanked on storm jib on deck level. The foldet sail bunch stays some 170cm above deck level which is annoying. The idea with the downhaul is great, should help a bit and I will asap try it. I kindly ask for your opinion on how to avoid having the lowered storm jib "up in the air" Second question would be: what are "lazy sheets" ?? and what are they helping in that situation? Fair winds Christian
When we don’t have our staysail (same sail as your storm jib) up, we have it stretched long and tied to the toe rail to keep it out of the way. Lazy sheets only really play a role when heaving to, as the sheet that would normally be the lazy sheet becomes the working sheet to back the jib and help keep the boat stopped in the water at a good angle to the waves. I hope this answered your questions, and if it’s any help in your decision process, ours was also a removable inner forestay that I never removed and finally just made it a permanent stay since we always use it. The headstay was roller furler and the inner forestay was Hank on, and having the two I found that I preferred Hank on so I converted the headstay to Hank on as well.
Well I just had the forestay snap in high winds two weeks ago using the fuller on my Bayfield 25. Was a situation I don't want to repeat. The mast started coming over but we caught it in time, and the fulling system was being dragged on the port side of the boat. It's a heavy sail which actually seemed to slow the boat down in lght winds. I just got the new forestay connected up and decided to try the hankon jib I had. The boat performs a knot faster in light winds compared to the furling Genoa. I think I am going to really like it. Thank for your info. It was informative. You can check out my little Bayfield , Meet the Bayfield 25 on TH-cam
i've had my roller furler fail on me and now i'm considering going back to hanks. the inner forestay has always been hank on, but the previous owner put a roller furler on it for ease of use. a few things to consider on my boat - the sails are extremely heavy, trying to lug 40-50kg sails around is a pain in the arse. also, i need to tack bare-headed, as the jib would tangle up in the inner forestay and the staysail (with the exception of storm jib or yankee) will foul up on the tender, so my tacking procedure as it was with roller furling was as follows: decide to tack, furl up jib, drop staysail and reposition on the windward side, tack over, unfurl jib, hoist staysail, continue as usual. hanks would mean that i would have to manhandle the jib (or even worse, genoa) which both weigh between 40-50kg around the front of the inner forestay, in wind an waves. bearing in mind that almost all of my sailing is long distance, mostly offshore stuff, so tacks are relatively few and far between. i'm still young enough to be ok with running around up the pointy end, although i am still mindful of the safety concerns as i only really sail solo. either way i still need to go up for'ard but i guess it'd be more work with the hanked jib. any thoughts?
We have found that tacking the jib with the staysail works better than just the jib alone. We keep the staysail backed and that pushes the jib forward and into the slot. Once it’s over, we then tack the staysail. In your case, maybe flying the sails that don’t foul the dinghy as well as tacking the jib before the staysail might help.
Interesting. Your hank on discussion assumes stainless stays (and brass hanks). What are your thoughts about a dyaneema forestay or inner forestay? What hanks would be appropriate (brass on dyaneema)? I am a novice, so this may be a dumb question.
I appreciate your video very much for learning so much about the subject. I sold my C & C 32, which had a Harken furler. I worked well with the furler system with a 100% jib and the 130% genoa. The design of the boat is such that 60% of the power comes from the jib. So I used mostly the 130%, which I furled partially in winds of 17 knots and up... I just bought a newer boat, a 2006 C & C 115, which is mostly rigged for racing. I will receive and see the boat for the first time late next week... Obviously, I can't wait... I could not go see the boat because of the virus... Now, this new boat doesn't have a furler, and operates with hank on sails.... It'll be a learning experience. But I am sure I will prefer it, like you do. I am looking forward to give you further comments...
Thanks for your thoughtful vid mate... BTW I've owned yachts in Australia since the mid 1980's and here the most popular insurance company requires that to insure the rig as well as the boat, the standing rigging needs to be changed every 10 years. There isn't now, nor has there ever been any stipulation to change the foil or headstay every two years, so someone has misinformed you I'm afraid...
It appears to be so. I read it in a book, so either they have changed the rules since the time it was published or the author chose to sell the book in a place as far away from the sailing grounds listed in the book. 🫠
I’m in the process of purchasing a sloop with roller furling, but after over 40 yrs of off shore sailing including two circumnavigations and having had both hank on and roller the roller on the boat I’m buying will be coming off.
I have to say I'm still in the roller furling camp. Good arguments for hank on, but good luck doing these procedures alone with small kids. My dad took us sailing solo at 5, 7 and 9 years old and no way he could have single handed while spending so much time on deck. Speed and off shore cruising hank on, comfort and accessibility roller furling.
My previous yacht of 19years had hanked on headsails. I had a #1-2 and three. Whenever I set off on a voyage I would choose which headsail to hank on based on the forecast and go with that. Most of the time the sail choice would be fine and if not then I would just deal with it. My current yacht of 12years has a roller furling headsail but I still have a #1-2 and 3 set of headsails. The difference now is I generally sail with the number 2 most of the time and change to the 1 or 3 for really light or strong winds respectively. Using the #2 for most of my sailing can mean I’m slightly over pressed on occasion or under canvassed on others. If the wind is significantly stronger than anticipated I can roll some sail away to deal with it. In summary given my age now I prefer a roller furler over hanks as getting on the foredeck in heavy seas and strong wind to change sails is something I would prefer not to do. However I would not have a furler with just one headsail as so many people seem to have as that is just asking for trouble.
I always had hank on, but was envious of roller, mostly because it provided not hauling around 80 pounds of sail ( i so much prefer fractional rigs). My "perfect" mast head boat would have a sail locker in-front of the V-birth, but behind a dedicated chain locker. Take the sail down, stuff it in the sail locker...clean decks and no crazy work bagging and carrying the sail around. A feature i missed you say (maybe you mentioned it), When the SHTF, it is sooo easy to rip down the Genoa, and stuff it in the V-birth opening. Get it the heck out of the way, off the deck and have it not be a hazard. That is the massive advantage, when safety is on the line, how fast can I do it. I am a heck of a-lot less worried about how long it takes to get a sail up for a leisurely sail.... how fast can I make the boat safe when I am fighting weather, other boats, the depth under the keel or all of them at the same time. I always assumed Rollers would be a negative, but I have never used one. My cruiser has hank-on and my racer had hank-ons, the other race boats i have crewed on had hank-on.
That is a great point that we didn’t mention. Stuffing sails through a hatch makes them disappear! We just lash the sail on the deck and leave it there tied to the toe rail where it is out of the way and out of the wind.
If you go to sea on passages...... Hank On has always been my choice. Sailor of 75 started sailing 1956 regularly for over 50 years and still do sail, have had both. This all belongs to the owner of the vessel and what they are most comfortable with. Repairs in isolated areas with furling issues can keep someone stuck perhaps. Fair winds to everyone. like the Video!
I have a 7.5 mtr trailer boat designed in the eighties for harbour sailing, it is near flat bottom and a tender bows. I found it awkward to go forward to drop the jib which is a self tacker, so I fitted a down haul line. Because I wanted to sail up to moorings and or sail off the ramp I tried fixing the down haul 2/3s up the hanks on the fore stay and used It to reduce sail area effectively a jib reefing to help provide gentle power. It was first fitted to get the sail down without going forward.
But…we are spec’ing a HR 44 foot center cockpit. 40-50 y/o couple, no crew. Do you think for a certain length and above, hank on sails would be a bit too heavy of a job? It offers “under deck” roller furling system. Wondering if that offers any addition issues.
One option is to simply fly lighter sails. Being older and wiser, you probably don’t want a 120% Genoa in 20 knots of wind, so the bigger sails could be made of thinner (and lighter cloth) while the smaller sails will be heavier cloth. Under deck furlers have the issue of hiding a rope jam since it’s out of sight, it is as difficult/simple to fix as an above deck variety.
First, I LOVE LOVE LOVVVVVVVVVE you guys! I really do. You've taught me so much. I also want to tell you a story. I have a boat here in Washington, and last winter we had a powerful storm. Upwards of 90 knot gusts. And in the middle of the night as all hell was breaking loose, so were the headsails on peoples' boats! We saw probably 6 or 7 headsails on roller furlings that had unraveled in the strong winds. And that was just in our little corner of the marina. We were running around trying to furl them in for people. Almost every sail that came undone was ripped to shreds. :( And not only that but it acted as a sail (obviously) and pushed their boats harder into the docks. I have hank on sails on my old Ericson sailboat and i love them! Thank you guys again!
Yet another reason to feel bad for people who don’t live aboard. They have complicated boats and it seems that every time they come out to their boat, something else broke. Thankfully you all were there to bring in their sails so that they didn’t lose their entire rig in that mighty blow! Glad you keep it simple, it sure makes slide easier ;)
I have a wire forestay on my boat, that I can rotate with an endless furler. So I hank on my jib and at any time I can decide, If I want to take it back down or furl it away. The best of both worlds. When I sail into the harbour single handedly it is nice to be able to reduce speed by just furling away the jib.
My first boat 23 ft had hanks and I love them.Easy to pack the sail in the bag with all the hanks in a neat row at the bag opening. Nice and easy and quick. My new boat 31 ft has roller furl. I will launch it this summer and let you know.
Amen. I've limited experience with roller furling headsails; it's mostly been luff groove on larger racing boats and hank-on jibs on smaller ones. But the latter seem best for short-handed sailing and reliability.
My boat got a roller on the headstay, and a 2-position inner stay for hank-on's. I have a 170% flat cut genoa/"code zero" on the roller, a 100% hank-on jib for the inner stay in the solent position, + a knife jib and a storm jib for when the inner stay is moved towards the mast. I feel this gives me the best of both worlds: the largest and lightest sail on the roller , and only used in light winds. Hank-on sails for offshore sailing , effective high-aspect knife jib for tacking and the storm jib close to the mast.
I was considering a roller furler modification for my 9m catamaran. One concern was that the roller furler mechanism would be in a place waves get to it? Salt water would possibly jam the mechanism or in the long run corrode parts? After seeing this video I have decided to save my dollars and keep hank on headsails. Thanks for the informative video.
We have roller furling on our boat, but I sailed with both furling or hank on setup. Hank on is a great way when talking to changing the sails quickly or taking down. On the other hand - the classic way to get rid of the taken down sail is to drop it to the v-birth so it is not in the way when hoisting the new sail - so your v-birth becomes a messy sail locker in the end. Plus: how many boats have more than a jib+mainsail? Storm jib? hha, only one which left from the good old days when the boat was new (in the `80s). :) That said, the roller furler is the weak link in the rigging in my experience - they can jam up for many reasons... also, one can buy a decent sail for the price of a furler - so it is rather expensive. Plus: furled jib is out in the sun most of the time - uv damage is inevitable. All in all: hunk on is better/safer/cheaper in many ways, but roller is more practical for everyday life - like capsuled keel vs bolt on one. Most sailers use their boat for weekend sailing - for them, roller furling is more practical.
I sail club SJ 24th, coastal stuff, and we carry 3 foresails on each boat, 100% jib, 130% genoa and storm jib. Plus spinaker. Usually it is day sail, you just look at the weather forecast and choose one to start the day. The most (and I'd say for me the only) annoying part of hank on, is that I have to take down and pack the jib on return, where I would be rather already drinking beer.
For us small amateur racers, with just 1 or 2 crew, the debate remains but with very different arguments (lol). Roller furler pros:- A single setting provides what is always a very workable luff tension Setting, and stowing a sail, in less then 5 seconds. There is nothing more satisfying than being able to, as you round a mark, have the genoa dissapear at the same moment the spinnaker sets. Or vice versa. So keeping full power on throughout the manouevre. Keeping the foredeck as a clear working area. Hank on pros:- Clean luff causing less drag and turbulence over the sail. Being able to tweak the luff tension to get the very best out of the current wind state. Not having to compromise on the best headsail for the wind state. Etc, etc..... Regarding reefing, the same arguments apply as given in the video. However, in my personal case there is a very powerful argument for a roller furler. As a physically disabled person going up to the foredeck while at sea is NOT an option. But a roller furler enables me to sail single-handed and be able deploy and fully stow the genoa with a line to the cockpit.
That is a very true and wonderful feature of roller furling, it lets you do everything from the cockpit! I was just picturing in my head the swapping of headsails in 5 seconds as you round the buoy and that is an incredible feature that they offer!
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Good points. I prefer hank on but, I am a dinosaur. Had roller furling and got rid of it because of the painful nature of maintenance and broken parts....
If you receive this, please reply. I have a Hunter26 with roller furling and hate it. My previous boat was a MacGregor 22 with hank on. Hank on is easy to work with and does not break. I sail the Great Lakes on my Hunter 26. These are really fresh water seas. I want to convert the roller furling to to hank on. Any advice, please? Thanks.
@@suiterd62 got it. I sold my boat after I finished most of it.
im 70 been sailing since the 60s.done 10 atlantic crossings 9 solo. approx 60.000 miles offshore. ive never had roller furling
If Suhaili had furlers all those years ago, then I bet she'd still have them today. What works for you is what you stay with.
Seems to me, the discussion of hank on vs roller furling is similar to the discussion about pretty much everything on a boat: There is a balance to be found for each sailor, for each condition, for each lifestyle and each budget. Like everything on a boat, you make choices about convenience vs reliability, maintenance vs ease of use, safety vs cost, etc etc, and you weigh them all vs the type of sailing you plan to do (single handed ocean passages, or party boat coastal cruising?) and finally your budget. While no one answer applies to all people and all situations, you guys have done a very nice job of discussing the pros and cons of each method to help people make their own informed decisions. Nice video, you guys are one of the best channels out there for your informative, helpful content and laid back style.
You both are always answering my questions before I ask them out loud! Get outta my head you freaks 😜🤣
My dad had both. His boat was a Pearson 39-2 with a cabin that has a raised roof (he was 6'4" tall and it was built for him). It had tiller and wind vane steering (aux rudder). His bowsprit was wide enough to walk on and had two stays; and then also had a mid stay (that he could detach) that attached just forward of the upturned dingy position on the fore deck. He had single furling jib that wasn't all that large. Then hank on sails his genoa and storm sail. He had a "hammock bag" to store the hanked on sail on the deck, but it actually dangled above the deck if he desired. He had a second bag with an asymetrical spinaker that he also kept on deck in a very large bag for sailing in the trades.
Dad had the philosophy that if he couldn't fix it himself . . . he didn't want it on his boat. He wanted to be able to inspect and fix everything. So, for instance, all the chain plates were exposed and all the connections for toe rails and such could be seen from inside the boat.
Note: told dad I posted here. He said to say this, "the boat came with the furler, I tried it, then kicked it off the boat after 4 years.
Your dad and I think alike!
I worked in a sail loft in New Orleans for a few years. Every time a storm came by, three to four headsails would show up in the loft in the succeeding days. Like clockwork. The furling line for the roller furler would fail, the sail comes unfurled and the high wind would flog the leech to pieces. Easily remedied by furling the headsail until the sheets wrap it three or four times. And also replacing furling lines often.
Although I think roller furlers are great, they make life easy and get people out there, but I never saw that problem with hank-ons. 😉
Great advice. I just bought a boat and am having the furler removed and the genoa recut for hanks. The sailmaker even had a stash of bronze piston hanks that he let me have for a song. Like new sail, far fewer headaches. Thanks for a sailing channel that is no BS, just straight talk and good avice.
Thank you very much and I’m glad you will have a headache free sail!
You guys make sense, and I agree. I used to have a boat with hanks no furler, and I used to envy those with a furler, but there is one exception I think, if you are a solo sailor.
video is five years old but topic still lives.
1. usual reason for having a roller furling jib is that's what the boat was designed and built around and, even from an insurance perspective, changing away from that becomes a task.
2. Insurance in Australia. Your comment is wrong today and it was five years ago. "Ten year rule" prevails but having older rigging does NOT mean you can't insure your boat, - just that cover for some aspects of rigging is compromised. Another aspect, you are talking about ocean sailing and Australian companies avoid insuring for any sailing in international waters so the difference is moot anyway; insurance sailing coastal and in while in port is fine, just beyond 12 miles out it's not.
3. Huge trend for racing is to use foils and to drop sails and that's for performance reasons. Sailors are also making their headsails reefable while still using foils - extra cringles at luff and clew and pull the sail down a bit. If you need a storm sail instead, the biggest part of the sail is already down anyway. Also so many boats are designed to allow in-mast furling of the main so the weight of a furled jib is quite so big a deal.
4. changing trends for headsails, with more specialization, even without a cutter rig (which I'd love to have btw). I have more of a working jib but I'd rather replace it with a narrower one with a lower clew, but that I can sheet INSIDE the shrouds so I can point higher I think the day of the deck sweeping, big genoa have gone and having a bow sprit with something like a Code Zero has taken over.
5. downhaul issue with a furler - why not just have one but with a furler, for emergencies, if you want one?
Overall 1. Huge trend is towards having all lines to the cockpit on cruisers and that incudes having furlers on both stays with cutter rigs and the training along those lines is hard to "re-direct". Huge inertia to change insurer's attitudes that way too. I think that "oh no - can't leave the cockpit" is the wrong mentality as sometimes you have to and being familiar with working on deck is important. At the same time, especially as I mostly single-hand when sailing passage, I am constantly concerned for the tendency of the bows to corkscrew in waves so that, one momemt you can be launched into space and, the next you come back down to find the deck is no longer below you.
Overall 2.I have a furling headsail but if I had a hanked headsail the probably wouldn't have changed from that either.
Soft shackles hanks up to 50 footer, furling above that when short handed. Soft shackle hanks can twist, allowing the folds to stack flat on each other and take less space ( less windage) at the bottom of the stay, They are also lighter aloft , cheap to replace (Make them on board), do not corrode, do not stain the sail, do not pinch fingers,
Through sheer coincidence and/or luck, i have found the perfect channel. Your videos are just what i needed. I am taking my first steps in making the sailing dream a reality, humble beginnings, so this kind of info is priceless. Thank you
So glad you found us!! Don’t ever hesitate to ask questions
I had hanked on sails for ~5 years, and have had rolling furling for ~8.
Like most sailors, most of my sailing is coastal, and I almost always sail alone. I love roller furling! I generally agree with the points in this video, but hanked on sails were a lot of work. I kept my sails in the v berth, and I was constantly dragging sails out on deck and changing them as conditions changed. I would see boats sailing under jib/genoa alone, and wondered why anyone would sail with such an unbalanced sail plan that couldn't point. Now I know.
Roller furling is SO easy. I can just sit in the cockpit, and roll out the sail.
In ten years, I have had trouble furling my headsail twice. Once on my boat, and once on a charter in the BVI. In both cases, it was due to furling in high winds. Herbie is right about this, and it was a hassle. But that's twice in ten years, and I have saved many, many hours of sail changes in that time. I have had no other problems with roller furling.
Like anything else, it's a trade off.
Thanks for your years of insight! The sail changes were a hassle which is why we keep ours hanked on with a foredeck bag that protects them from the sun. We added a reef so instead of changing sails, we could just move the sheets. It’s still a huge hassle, and so much more work than a roller, but we don’t have to switch out sails and bags and hanks...
It is all a compromise 👍
@@RiggingDoctor Hi there. That's a comment I do not understand: imagine you want to keep a Solent and a Bigger Genoa "standby" on deck in a bag. I guess you need two different forestays to enable that if you keep them both hanked, even when waiting, on deck? What's the best option in the end: two forestays like on Imocas with two hank on sails attached and waiting to get risen? Or one forestay and a second foresail in a bag ready to replace the first sail?
Many thanks! Great video.
I can see the "selling" point in roller furling. The salesman will point out how easy it is to sail from the comfort of the cockpit with a martini in your hand. He won't mention the point you brought out about all the weight aloft when the sails are furled. I would prefer keeping as much weight close to the center of gravity. It just makes sense to me. Thank you!
After helping many friends working on rigs in yards - way out there cruising - the key issue with RF is hiding failures in the headstay. RF is fine IF you inspect the headstay and forestay once a year. Story: Helping a friend on a Cherubini 44 with a drooping bowsprit. Took down the headstay and RF. Found the strap toggle at the lower end cracked through from edge to hole. Another strong blow and the rig comes down. This was the Head Stay! Bummer cruise dude. BTW: Mast was custom Goetz carbon fiber, worth more than my whole boat. Inspect the RF rig every year! Meaning down and disassemble. RF: More work on the dock, less at sea. HO: More work at sea, less at the dock. Also RF adds a lot of windage forward when docking, especially if RF on code -0- & genoa & solent or staysail.
Ouch! Good thing he caught it while his stick was still up!!
I like the way you characterized RF vs HO as to where the work happens :)
This has confirmed my reservations! I have hank on now, but have been coveting roller furling, and planning to "upgrade" my Venture 25 to furling at some point. My main reservation had been loosing the ability to sheet inside of the shrouds while flying the jib. I'm almost always single handed and do a lot of close tacking. I've all but given up on the Genoa. It's much harder to handle, and does not point to windward nearly as well. It's a nightmare close tacking with the Genoa through channels to avoid all the shoals in my home waters (Kentucky Lake). I was aware of some of the other potential pitfalls, but it's wonderful to have them so thoroughly explained. Thanks for the confidence booster to stick with hank on. Be a lot cheaper to add a down haul, and some sort of bag so I can keep it at the ready....
Yeah, stay with hanks, it's the way to for most boats :)
I've used hank on sails for decades on my venerable old Bristol, but have been telling myself that getting older, maybe it's time I go with roller furling. But after watching your discussion, adding a downhaul is the answer! Personally I love the joy of hoisting the headsail and don't want to start getting lazy now that I'm pushing 70! Also- thanks for your great dyneema splicing video- excellent.
I really wouldn’t go back to furling. We are young and have struggled harder than ever on friends boats when their furler failed. It was more of a struggle than we have ever had in a week of stormy sail changes!!
I totally agree! Plus, it is much quicker to get hank on sails down. In a night squall, 50 knot wind out of nothing, every second counts. Plus, the sail reduces its surface DOWN (instantly), not towards the middle (slowly). Plus, I can do it ten seconds after waking up. No brain needed. Plus, cheaper. Plus, all the points you mentioned already. My first boat had a roller, because of bow sprit. My second and third did not, missed not, even though last one was 30 metric tons. Now, my fourth boat (55 feet) I am taking off the roller before even going to sail one mile. Rollers are good for the companies making them. Never ask a hair cutter if you need a hair cut....
The windage forward and high makes boats wiggle way more at anchor. Point 17....
Such good, well-intentioned advice from nice, smart and experienced sailors. Well done, you two!
Didn’t think, of the weight on top of the mast, with a furling head sail in stormy conditions. Good point! Thanks for the pointer.
Thanks for education. I’ve only had hank on and new boat I am buying has furler, which I will disassemble, sell and replace with hank on.
That’s what we did with our furler before going cruising. Hank on is bulletproof!
I have had my boat for 47 years and have watched the development of roller fueling head sails and their problems but never had a problem with Hank on sails. Hughes 38 with tall rig.
Coastal sailor here. I've had boats with both systems. I was always concerned about maintaining the roller system. My current boat is hank on. It was harder to sail single handed -until someone told me about downhauls. Duh. Now I run a downhaul all the way back to the cockpit and life is good and easy. It was such a cheap and easy fix.
When the sailmaker test fitted our jib, he thought the downhaul was a waste of time and effort. The wind picked up while the sail was up and the pressure on it would let it drop. Then it started flapping around the deck making it dangerous (even in the slip) to go forward and pull it down. The look on his face when I pulled it down with the downhaul that he said was unnecessary was priceless!
Hello, I agree it's a wonderful "trick" this downhaul but you still need to go ahead of the mast to tie the flapping jib down or stow it away in it's bag... and then it's in the way when you need to access the chain locker or the windlass or the ancor...
My wife and I have had 7 sailboats in over 40 yrs of sailing (not counting the Sunfish I sailed before we were a couple), and only 1 of them had roller furling. I don't enjoy foredeck work in rough weather, but nevertheless prefer hank on foresails...and I'm a coastal and Great Lakes sailor. Some proponents may point out the 'continuously variable' sail size advantage of roller furling, but I prefer to carry multiple headsails that each provide performance optimized for their respective wind ranges. I want a smaller, flatter foresail (and one that I have zero doubt can be doused) when the wind is strong.
A related topic is the recent explosion of in-mast roller furling. Anyone who has experienced jamming of their furling line in the drum after deploying a roller furled jib can probably imagine the excitement that will ensue if a similar jam occurs with in-mast furling. I am beginning to shop for our next ('retirement') boat, and don't look seriously at those equipped with in-mast furling.
I am reminded of a friend's maxim: Simplicity is the mother of reliability.
One of my friends got caught in a blow and the main jammed halfway into the mast. Shredded his sail because he couldn’t get it in!
I’ve had my roller genoa furl up different sizes based on how much tension I had on the sheets as it rolled. I can’t imagine HAVING to have it an exact size or it will jam situation.
One other thing, I have found me to be more cautious in heavy weather about putting up more headsail. We ran down the east coast from Charleston SC to Florida by going out in strong cold fronts. We made the passage with good speed using our trysail and staysail. I had times when I thought about adding the jib for some extra go! Walking up on the deck I quickly decided that I don’t want to come up here if it got worse to bring it down, so I just left the sailplan as is. Adding sail in 30+ knots would have been reckless and hank on kept me from doing something stupid!
Thanks for sharing your experiences 👍
Don't throw the baby with the bath water, please.
Both hank-on and furling have advantages and disadvantages. it depends what it's used for and how it's used. That's why ocean going race boats carry and use both types.
The furling line jamming is no longer an issue with flat deck continuous line furlers or structural furlers with flat webbing strap.
In any case if one has to use the winch to furl a head sail, then he's not doing it right.
Thank you for your comments, and in particular about the in-mast furling. I have always counseled against in-mast furling for the very reasons you mention. I am less concerned about in boom furling, since it can be lowered with a reasonable degree of certainty versus in mast furling. I also don't like the idea of all that weight up top.
A few years ago while at the Annapolis Boat Show I spoke to a dealer about in mast furling and he said that it rarely fails, and that is true. I asked him if he ever had it happen and he said only twice in twenty years. Hmm, for me that is twice too often. Again, in coastal sailing/day sailing that is not likely to be an issue. For passage making I wouldn't risk it, especially given how accurate Murphy's law it!
In all fairness, any system is fine if used properly, IF one recognizes the limitations and IF one has a reasonable work around. In case anyone is wondering, I have used both, and own both. Two of my boats have roller furling/reefing for the foresail, and one has hanked on sails. I like both systems, but recognize the unique character of both.
I agree with you, old school sailors were no dummies. I'm sure the idea was thought of years ago of rolling the sail up, but, practicality of it was not as sharp as the idea.
I've sailed with both and in my experience in a storm even with a downhaul that jib is going places and causing problems unless there is some way to bag it. Bouncing up and down in some heavy swell hanging on for dear life while trying to secure it is no fun. That said if the furler breaks in similar conditions it is an even bigger hassle but if it doesn't then you can furl from the cockpit and go on about your business. Ideally in either situation you shortened sail ahead of time and also ideally you keep up on your maintenance so the furler or your hanks are not as likely to be a problem.
This is also an argument for a ketch/cutter rig since you have more options for less sail. Most are relying on weather reports and feeling pretty safe but if you are concerned about those not being sufficient then maybe consider other options. Nowadays you can also get furlers with 2 slots so you can change sails more readily.
I've never had roller furling but I don't mind the little bit of 'extra' work in hanking on a sail....in fact I kind of like it. It is part of sailing. I guess it is one of those things where at some point, "what is the point". I don't normally want to sit in the cockpit with a martini. I like to actually sail and be pat of every thing the boat is doing and feeling. I've never had a problem lowing a hank-on sail and don't mind going up to the bow. I live and sail on the outer west coast of Canada where winds change rapidly and dramatically at times so also have twin headstays and always keep a smaller sail on the resting stay for quick reefing if needed. I have sailed on other boats with roller furling and it sometimes feels like just going along for the ride. However, I also try not to motor into anchorages, but sometimes spend an hour or mores squeaking every last bit out of the wind and room to get there under sail. It all depends on what turns your particular crank really, but I can see no reason to switch to roller furling - for need or fun.
Hi, Thanks for bringing the discussion in.
You also have to think of an in between solution used by most racing sailors. That is, the stay with an aluminium/plastic profile but without the furler drum.
The profile normally has two tracks, allowing the feeding of 2 sails at the same time. Normally one up while the other is on the way down.
Hank-on don’t give the best luff profile of the sail. And performance sails benefit from the interrupted luff line, that otherwise is always a bit baggy on the hank on sails.
But yes the way of storing and setting sails in this set-up is very similar to hank-on sails.
All the best, Carlos
Yep...I totally agree with you....long,long time ago I sailed with Dudley Dix in a few races,when he was still living in Cape Town.I worked the foredeck and it was only a pleasure to have a foil which could accommodate two sails side by side,by means of bolt ropes on the luffs of the sails. I could then hoist a sail inside a sail, before bringing the working sail down,thus not losing any boat speed whilst "changing gears" up front.Some times I worked as mastman and spinnaker flyer,
gatherer and bagger. Happy memories..😊😊
I used to own a 20' laguna Windrose. It had hank on jib sail. I loved it. Never had a problem. The sail would drop fast every time. I now own a 30' Catalina with a roller furling. It is seized up. I'm thinking of taking the roller furling off and getting hanks put on my jib sail. Thanks for the video!
That’s what we did and it’s been problem free!
Good points to consider, at least on small to mid-sized boats. Actually, I always enjoyed hanking on the headsails, but it can be a dangerous situation if a squall makes up suddenly, and you have to go forward on a wet, pitching deck. Of course, as you pointed out, reef early, and avoid the drama. Thanks.
I have used both systems and definitely Hank on is best for reducing problems if things start to go wrong. Now I have rolling main and rolling Genoa. I’m happy with this solution day to day - but, it is necessary with regular maintenance. Prevent problems that you mention. Admittedly not 100% guaranteed problem free. But not bad. So what is my reason for being happy? Well if I had hank on I would need several sails and I have a family on board and the extra asymmetrical spinnaker is already moved around as we use different parts of the boat. More sails would be difficult. I actively use my cover for the rolled Genoa, so risk of wind unrolling is taken away and allows me to drop the UV protection on the sail. And always on board sail bungees in case the wind gets up and I want to give extra protection without too much time on the fore deck. In addition as I get older and the children complain more I can easily control the motion of the boat whilst sailing, no real effort and safe. If I was to race again - I’d use hank on - obviously ;-)
Well. Sounds to me like if the boat Comes with Hank On, I'll not Sweat getting a furler.
Indeed, enjoy the simplicity
Last week I bought a Ericson 41 with Hank On. I'm keeping it that way. And Lazy Jacks and Stack Pack.
Kiss is the way to go when sailing and owning a boat!!Modernity dosen't suit always! OLDER SYSTEMS ive found are best especially when fitting out!Less is more!!Geez , don't get me started!!
I've always preferred hank on sails, I grew up sailing small boats with hank on jibs and tall ships with multiple hank on foresails (with downhauls).
When I was younger it seemed like I'd want roller furler on my own next bigger boat, but having sailed a number of different yachts up to 45 feet or so, a few with roller furlers, in firmly in the hank on camp still :)
I've raced a bit on a Luffe 4004 that had an under deck mounted furler with the entire stay rotated through a ball joint in the deck, with the furler line running under the deck to the cockpit in a curved tube.
That was probably the most expensive furler I've used, and also the absolute worst one up use. We basically had to use a winch for the furling line even in very light breeze... It looked good though :p
That boat also had a ~100sqm gennacker on an endless line furler, worked okey sometimes, but it was a lot of hard work to get it furled. And the one time we split the sail after pressing to hard after a rounding, it just didn't work to furl it..
I'll be going hank on self tacking jib on my Wasa 55 build, with 1 or 2 full battens (don't remember what the sail actually has) :). I'll be sure to have a downhaul and already have a sailbag for the job to stay on the forestay.
Downhaul s are the secret to a happy life! It’s amazing that you have had all those experiences which makes you a valuable resource on the matter.
I love my roller furling sail, on my small 17 footer. Fantastic and easy single handing. I could see the issues with weight, ocean crossing, but I'm pretty sure I won't be doing that in an unballasted pocket yacht
The reasons you've presented for hank-on sails sound very logical!
I'm really glad you ran this vid. I have been considering getting a roller furling on my 25' C&C that I only said it about 10 times a year. I think I will stick with hanks.
Glad to have saved you a small fortune :)
Stick with hank
I gotta say, the video really challenged my assumptions on a roller furling being the default way to rig a headsail. Your points were very compelling. I too have found a spinnaker staysail very easy to hoist and caught myself wondering why the jib should be any different. I will have to do some deep thinking before spec'ing a roller-furler in the future. Thank you!
I have a 38 ft cutter ketch with hank on sails. Years ago I bought a furler thinking to put it on the jib. Used fuller. It is still in the shed and will probably get sold. As per the Pardeys I rigged a downhaul on the jib. We put on Wichard hanks which are stainless and only require one hand. The boat has softeyes around the mast and I plan to replace aft lowers on the main with line so your videos are very helpful. Thanks so much. SV Shambala.
Ann B 04 24 21
As a retired naval aviator who now sails I prefer hank on. To me having a roller furling is like flying an airliner, no fun. Hank on is like a fighter pilot, a real pilot.
Hello. Very many good points, good argumentation in favor of hank-on sails. And I agree with the notion that coastal sailing (at least near populated areas) means one has access to riggers and sail makers etc.... OK BUT: the problem with hank on sails, for me, is not the extra amount of work contrary to what you've mentioned right at the beginning of your presentation (1:18). The problem with hank on sails is the space the bags take up front when you're at ancor: having a cutter rig makes it even more cumbersome. Up front, you have the jib bag, the drifter in a bag, maybe a second jib of smaller size (if you don't have or don't want to have reef points on the jib: by the way, reefing properly a gib does mean you need to go up front when the weather is getting bad) and just back of that: another bag containing the stay sail.... When you want to pull your ancor in or just go and check for chafing on the ancor rode , those bags are in the way (especially on small boats) When you say that a downhaul makes it easy to pull the sail down, I don't agree that you can do all that standing near the mast: you still need to go to the front of the boat and bag the whipping sail in it's bag. Here's my combo: strong staysail on roller furling, a fairly small strong (heavy) well prepared (think foam padding and triradial panels) roller jib, code D on it's own stay nicely "folded" against the side front deck: I believe the weight of aparatus is largely compensated with ease of use and space on deck but to each his own. Have a good day.
The weight issue of having a furled headsail hanging on the stay never occured to me. I think I'm a convert to hank on lol! Nice vid guys, thanks 🍻
We’re coastal sailors in British Columbia. Love the furler, works like a dream most of the time. But when the wind pipes up you can reef the Jenny only so far before the shape deteriorates. So we’re adding a removable Solent stay, just behind the forestry. When the wind picks up, we’ll attach the Solent stay to the deck fitting, hank on the heavy weather jib and raise it. Fingers crossed it all works. Really looking forward to the hanks and a deck bag, that system worked well on our previous old woodie with no furler.
But overall, I’d say, furlers are great it’s kind of like having an extra person on the boat. But all your points are soooo valid….nothing is without a tradeoff.
You guys have a good system there! For coastal sailing furlers are convenient, and for ocean storms, you have a hank on storm jib. Sounds like a really nice compromise between the two setups 😎
I'm a novice sailor but Hank on to me just seems safer. Especially because my wife and I are planning blue water in our future. Anything complicated can become a big deal when on the water. Simple (design) is always safer and easier to fix in the middle of the water.
Precisely!
I recently acquired a Jim Brown trimaran set up for cruising, and equipped with a “superfurl” headsail system.
I have sailed with both hank and roller headsails and I do enjoy the convenience of simply rolling up the headsail, especially when single handed.
But I was reminded just yesterday, while hoisting a new headsail into the roller track, how a furlong system can cause serious problems when things go wrong.
I had the sail half way up and the upper section of the foil track separated, leaving the sail impossible to get up or down without taking the entire system down.
Fortunately this happened while on the morning ball, but the potential for damaging the entire rig was real.
I’ve decided I won’t put the roller system back on the trimaran for a few reasons: the ability to run different headsails, the ability to douse the sail no matter what, and it will be easier and cheap to just put up a new forward stay.
Wow, have fun with your trimaran adventures!
Rigging Doctor if you’re interested in checking out the Searunner Trimaran Wayfinder, it’s featured in a few of my recent videos :)
Looks cool! Nice parrot :)
Rigging Doctor I saw you guys have some cute birds too :)
i´ve always regarded hank on as a more efficient type of sail: better shape; less heeling; better overall performance. one quick look at the shape of a in mast furling main sail and, yeah, it catches wind, but that doesnt equate to sailing....properly. your question was about which one was better, but that is a matter of opinion. we can observe that hank on, thru shape, give better performance but is that the ultimate factor?! specially when your main crowd are cruisers, ie, not time/performance oriented. Sure, we all want and like efficiency but then confort, handling, crew (as someone also pointed out), come into play. Some people say, hank on is the proper way to go offshore, yet, another quick look at it and we would possibly see that the vast majority of cruising people use roller/furlers. are they wrong? personally what makes or breaks (also literally) is the kind of boat hull you decide upon, and your ability, because when things go pear-shaped it dont matter if you hank on, roll or furl, so long you know what you r doing and what must be done. there are also 2 kinds of people, the ones for whom any activity is work and the ones for whom its exercise ;)
I have replaced all the chainplates on my boat except for the Headstay plate, however I have not replaced the stays themselves. What would you recommend is the life expectancy for a Headstay chainplate as well as realistic life range of stays. Replacing stays every 10 years seems pretty short lived as long as they are inspected and don't show defects seems they should be good to continue use. Finally, does raking the mast back help keep the Headstay in better shape?
I'm usually suspicious of the word "better" and always suspicious of it when used to criticize something as widely used and accepted as roller furling. There's almost always a latent assumption that there is a best solution that fits all needs and that assumption is invariably wrong. I acknowledge that you recognize that roller furling has a place in coastal sailing but really that's entirely too limited a concession. To begin with most people don't have cutters. They're more common among cruisers of course for good reason but the reality is most boats aren't cutter rigged and for a variety of reasons a cutter rig isn't an option even for most offshore cruisers just because it's not the boat they have. Hank on sails are much more challenging for folks with one headsail. And the difficult is compounded for those who are older or otherwise less fit physically. That's true even with a cutter rig. A suit of purpose made hank on sails will give you a more efficient sail shape as you reduce sail than rollers but it is more physical work than a sensibly used roller. A whole lot more if you have one headsail. This means that for a lot of people -- even a lot of cruisers -- notwithstanding the problems you point out, rollers will be a better choice.
I think your claim that bronze wing chafe stainless also should have at least a limited qualification. It's just not always the case, when metals rub against each other, that the softer one wears. In fact sometimes the opposite is true. Where there's any kind of abrasive in the picture it can become embedded in the softer metal and then the softer metal becomes something like an emery board. In dusty environments then -- especially if you let your hanks get grimy -- there could be chafe to the headstay. It's a non problem out at sea of course but at least possible along dusty coasts.
In the end, as in most things, the right solution is the one that works for you and is inevitably going to depend on who you are. As for me, like you I have a cutter rig with hank on sails. Will that always be true? Ask me in twenty years -- I can't know now.
A bright guy once said, "Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler." Too many things are overengineered, such as your interminable post. You should always want rigging that minimizes fouling. When you find that you can no longer hoist a hanked-on jib, sail a Sabot and forget headsails. Stay aloof, mate.
I have sailed my old boat, for the last 18 year, with hanked on sails. I have 3 sails: 1 100%, a 120%, and a 140%. I mostly single hand, and have all the lines lead back to the cockpit. I used to have a down-haul rigged, but it would stick, so I usually just run up to the bow and pull it down. I store one sail in a "jib ready" bag on the deck, and can be ready to sail in minutes.
My new boat came with a Stream Stay furler where the foil extrusion _is_ the fore stay. I am re-rigging the boat, and I am planning to install a furler. It makes it easier to single hand. It gives me the ability to reef (sure, the shape isn't as good, but it's better than nothing).
I could talk for a long time about the trade-offs between these two. I have sailed with both. There isn't room here.
We have reef points in our headsails and they really are a pain to set. Usually if the job needs a reef, we just drop it and run the staysail.
We have only put reefs into the headsails a handful of times.
For single handing and general ease, you can’t beat a simple furling line ;)
This is a really helpful video. Thanks so much! Makes me think twice about heading offshore with a roller furler, especially an older furler. I think I’d rather set the capehorn and go forward to hank on the storm jib, even solo. Or better yet, have a staysail storm jib ready to go. Ha! You had me at downhaul and drifter :-) :-) :-)
Hi, loved your video on hank on sails versus roller furler. You may even like our set-up. We have only 3 headsails now down from 5 & all hank on. No 1 Lite out of 6.9oz Hydranet that reefs down to No1 Heavy, just a lace up reef & in a radial cut. This replaced a 5oz No1 Lite & a 12oz No1 Heavy both in dacron & cross cut. Of course they were old & the new sails way out preforms the old ones, 20% faster & with more ease & comfort. We have a 7 Ton loaded Lock Crowther 44' dagger board cat with a rotating mast & can now usually sail at not far below wind speed ie blowing 4 kns & we're doing 3kns. Our next sail is a square top, fully battened blade headsail that self tacks & is a real deck sweeper when not reefed, out of 9oz Hydranet, radial cut again, that is also reefable & covering an extra heavy
No 1, No 2 & No 3, all sheet from approx the same place, give or take for tuning as the clew rises up as the sail reefs so this can occur & waves can pass under the sail as the wind gets up & the sea state worsens. On both sails we also use barber haulers when off the wind. All sails are cut for windward work as we don't want to be carrying too many heavy sails on a performance catamaran & feel even a bed sheet will go down wind so to speak. With the No1 Light hanking it on so doesn't have to pass over the Seagull striker like sails out on a prodder, so it can be sheetedvin in close, a proper forestay so great Luff tension & it's much easier to tack as it doesn't have to pass around in front of the fore stay. The square top blade is such that it will tack without getting hung up on the diamond's & having to drop it down a bit to facilitate tacking. The twist keeps all the power down low where it's just driving the boat forward & not driving the bows down & causing the yacht to hobby horse & in extreme conditions trying to bury the bows & put you end over end. Also as you reef the head sail, you are lowering the center of effort, the same as with your Main Sail so all your drive is down low where you want it. Our Main is also Square Top, fully battened & radial cut, 9oz Hydranet. Both the Main & the Blade head Sail drop into lazy bags with the head Sail bag being held up by the Seagull striker ie front beam stiffener come bridal & the mid & rear of the bag are held up be lazy lines that run through an eye at the Luff about a meter & a half above the 3rd reef & pulled up & down by a block & tackle that can also act as a down haul to get the sail down if things get a little out of hand. This has a cam cleat at the Seagull striker or can be lead back to the mast by a turning block & made off to a cleat so you can raise & lower the lazy bag when pulling reefs in & out. It just drops into the bag or pulls out no need to lace the sail up when you reef. The sheets just snap on & when changing the reef the lazy sheet just becomes the new sheet & is rethreaded. Our blocks can take 2 sheets & the next reef's clew can be reached while standing on the deck so you never have to drop the sail onto the deck to reef. Our next sail is our stand alone storm jib. The storm jib & the No 1 Lite/Heavy both have deck bags like the lazy bag so they can stay hanked on or attached to the trap tie offs with snap shackles or just be put down below via a big hatch. Being reefing sails they hold a much better shape than a roller furling sail, less weight aloft, lower center of effort & the best thing is you can easily check the forestay swage at anytime. We check our rig every time we go sailing as with the rotating rig we find it can go through rigging at a quicker rate than non rotating. We also have a 1/2oz symmetrical kite for lite down wind stuff & a 1oz Asymmetrical kite, that's great for taking down wind. You can almost reach with this sail in lite conditions. No screacher to come unfurled in a storm & have to fight like a wild Anaconda. Hanks Alot for your video & views, we couldn't agree more. Ian & Margie. Gotcha Covered
I grew up sailing in the 70's, never knew what a furling was. The way you re-bag the sail makes hank on so easy.
I bought a 20 ft trailer sailer this spring. My first sail boat. Sailing in the Swedish archipialago. It has hank on head sails. One 90% jib and a 130% genua, I guess. I go by the weather forecast and route. If it will be over 7 m/s, outside the islands or will change to worse later, I go by the jib. And keep i the whole day, if it not totally calm down. I am in no hurry. Only twice this summer, I had to change from genua to jib. One of them I just droped the genua and went with only the main sail the last few nm.
As an outdoorsman (kayaking, hiking, mountaineering) I like solutions you can repair in field with few resources. The KISS rule always apply. Simple solutions = simple damages = simple repair. Everything with small springs, some plasic pegs, moving parts or batteries will eventually break and when they do it will be at the worst thinkable moment. No chance to find a new part or bring spares for everything. Simple solutions can be repaired with your shoe laces, a piece of wood, a tent peg and some tape. It will do for the rest of your holiday, until you come home.
Well I was about to write a short essay extolling the virtues of hank-on sails when you mentioned that bit about motoring in circles to furl the sail back up and I just about fell over. It probably works for all I know, but just the thought of driving in circles for about 30 revolutions strikes me as hilarious.
Is it as hilarious as you find people who are “stuck” somewhere because their engine won’t start?
@@RiggingDoctor That's more like schadenfreude ...
Sorry, I meant bow thruster, which is even more-so.
I sail in circles most days out. I love sailing but i am scared of the ocean so i never go too far. You should try it sometime LOL.
Great discussion. I have used both. I will use Hank on when ever possible. My boats have all been hank on. I have used rol!refueling when on other boats than my own.
I personally prefer hanks over roller furling for offshore work, that said I have a furler with a 155 that has a foam luff. I'm probably going to go back to to hanks soon maybe this spring. I like having the correct sail on or no sail no windage.
It is real easy to get lazy with a furler but when you need to change down or just take it down in a blow its a hand full, hanks are attached to the boat until you remove them it's a nice system and its old school.
👍
single handed sailor i use hank on for ease and reliability, especially heavy weather, and a 150 hank on genoa is a bit more work, but i like it, massive amount of canvas which restricts vision in crowded areas, head upwind, let go the wheel, go forward and they are down in 5 seconds, hank on storm sails put up before the bad weather with downhaul to cockpit, fall off and back in business, no going to bow duckdiving through waves, I dont think furlings are made for waves, the foot of my stay is only 7 or 8 feet off the waterline, then there is the resistance applied to the stay in a rollover or knockdown from a roller furling
Fully agree. The bow is such a harsh environment, keep it simple up there!
As a future novice sailer let me thank you for dashing my hopes of push button sailing!
Haha no worries!
Haha that was exactly what i was thinking.
A word of caution to newbies, sailing is not for the faint of heart, I've know folks who bought a boat, had a scary day and nite at sea, and sold the boat. It's scary out there. sail on a large lake for a few years before you attempt to go out on the Big Blue Bitch. BTW, regardless of the rigging, if you don't know how to use it, it won't matter.
@@charonstyxferryman I’ve heard most new blue water boats are sold in a year
Thanks . Great and informative. I'm looking at a racer / cruiser which has twin groove Tuffluff and I was thinking of fitting a furler as I convert the Yacht into more of a cruiser / racer. Of course fitting a furler means dumping or altering all the headsails that come with the boat and purchasing a new genoa... listening to this you have convinced me to keep the Tuff Luff and sail with a mix of jibs .
Keep the jibs. Partly furled sails are useless, particularly when it's windy.
I would think that furling on a cat or trimaran would be less of an issue due to the reduced heeling factor. Great discussion btw! Thanks
Elevated weight STILL degrades righting moment, of course, but since you'll probably never get close to your "tipping point" anyway that weight aloft will just be stress on the standing rigging and little else. But then again,.. who wants stress?
Windage aside, the insurance and other issues persist.
When I rigged my previous yacht I set up a cutter rig with a twin forestay system with two sizes of yankee jibs permanently hanked on for ocean passages allowing for rapid sail changes and left the sails permanently on deck in long sausage bags that zipped along the top. Easy ,quick and tidy. Changed to roller after we returned home to NZ which was great for short sails around the coast but am now back to hanks on the new boat, no big deal on the foredeck and I'm 70 next birthday, keeps me fit.
have you considered 2 roller furlers?
I grew up dinghy sailing - hank on every time for me - but single handed a roller furling is somewhat easier
I think you've under played the issue of storing a hank on jib/Genoa. I'd have liked to have heard more about it. You make great arguments for hank on, and but I'd have liked to hear more about storage.
We have a turtle bag on the deck and the sail is stowed stuffed into the bag on the deck and still hanked on.
I just drop the sail, flake it, and roll it up; then stuff it into the bag 😎
It's all about mantance and personal choice 😁
Thanks for sharing your experience. I have a new to me Corsair F-31 with a hank-on jib. I'm used to a roller furling on my smaller Nacra 5.8 which I use fully deployed or fully furled, never reefed, and I always removed the sail at the end of the day which is a hassle. I am planning on changing the F-31's jib to a furled system but since the boat is already set up with the hank-on jib, we'll give it more consideration. If it works out we could save a bunch of money not converting it. I did find another video on how to reef a hank-on jib so we'll test that out too.
Aloha,
Cullen
A big help with Hank on sails is a downhaul. It lets you pull it down without going up to the bow.
In my view, roller furling is like having automatic transmission whereas hank-on is like manual. I agree that roller is good for coastal cruising, especially if you go out on relatively short jaunts single handed, where you deploy and take in the sail frequently. Many people use roller furling as a means of infinitely variably reducing sail area to meet wind conditions, which often results in a sub-optimal sail shape. Most people don't realize that for a typical genoa you should not furl it down more than 20 %, beyond which you severely distort the sail. If you need a smaller area, you should switch to a smaller headsail, and, like you said, that is a bear to change over on a roller furler in the conditions where you need to do so. That's where hank on sails really come into their own. Also, I note that die-hard racers prefer hank-on sails.
Im getting my standing rigging replaced next week. Im having the roller furler removed and switching to hank on. I just like the idea of it being mechanically more simple. No furler ropes to jam or break, no bearings or swivels to rust, no struggle to drop the jib in high winds. I just think the positives outweigh the negatives. Removing the furler is one less thing to maintain or break.
Good for you!! We’re on a friend’s boat with a furler that has already given us issues!
Yeah, I see what you're saying, but a lot of it boils down to, "too many people don't inspect or care for their furling units and expect them to work when the crap hits the ventilator." Rigging can still be inspected with a roller furler, too, you just have to take a look at it periodically. Hank-ons have their own problems. Going up front in a storm, getting bounced around and having waves break on you is sort of a pain and dangerous. Unless you've rigged a downhaul up through the hanks, pulling the sail down can be a real problem, too. Loaded up, the sail doesn't always come down quickly or easily. I've been knocked down by a sudden squall before on a hank on boat, and trying to get the genoa down by hauling on the foot was a nightmare. Much easier to shorten sail with a roller furler. I wouldn't look at a boat without one.
All good points, thanks for sharing! We always rig a downhaul up through the hanks and have never had a problem. Squalls do come on super fast, so it can be hard to prepare, but for regular storms, we tend to have our storm sail plan ready we'll in advance ☺️
I have a Furler with no Sail. I have Hank on Sails(a new to me Boat ) Now, after this video, I believe it would be much better for me to take the Furler off. My Wife and I are new Sailors,(I taught Sailing on 16 footers when young at a summer camp for three years ). Having instructors at our Marina we've become pretty good and sail many of our friends boats while they have cocktails and relax, we've not sailed our own boat yet, a 30 foot 1981 Seidleman. We are the third owners and the hank on sails. A storm and racing jib were stored by the first owner and never came out again. Until this video, I was going to have a sail made, but think it would be much better to use what we have. Thanks for the heads up, great points.
Im so glad this video helped you make that important decision!!
Thank you!! Now I know about Hank on Sails:)
I have hank on sail on my boat. I've just bought it and it's my first sailboat. I haven't been able to set sail yet, I have some issues with one of my spreaders, and right now I have my hands full with other projects on the boat, so my TH-cam videos focuses on engine stuff at the moment. Then sail drive and basic electrical... After that I guess I'll get to my rigging, and all this time I've been looking at furling systems, I guess you guys just convinced me to give the hank on a try, that sure makes the budget look a whole lot prettier. Thank you so much.
So glad we could help! Also best of luck with your projects!
I switched from hank-on to roller furling. No need to go into a long story. I regret the switch. For ocean sailing, hank-on is what I would no prefer.
How many sails do you tend to take with you?
And how often do you find you have to reef the headsail? I've just bought a Vancouver 27... and I've never sailed a cutter. So do you just tend to drop the jib and run the staysail to reef?
Replace forestay every two years in Oz - don’t know where you got that one but that’s not right guys.
Lin Pardey said it in a conference. Being how she is from NZ and sails in Australian waters, I didn’t verify it. Can’t find any info on it with a google search.
Guess it’s not true.
Rigging Doctor she is a very credible source. All of my sailing at the moment is coastal 8 year old rigging and no issues getting insurance (in Oz) but I guess it could be a requirement for offshore sailing but haven’t heard of it. Anyway love the channel guys keep it up 👍🏼⛵️.
New subscriber here. Great vids with great explanations. Thanks for all that you do.
I’m relatively new to sailing and about to upgrade from my ‘74 Pearson 26. Looking at Hunter 37C. The staysail boom is not available and it’s forestay and chainplate has been removed. Can I replace that forestay and add a hank on storm jib to supplement the roller jib? Thx
Welcome aboard!
The setup you describe is a very common one. The inner forestay has a hank on storm jib while the headstay has a roller furling headsail. You literally get the best of both worlds! The ease of roller furling when you are sailing around, and the reliability of a hank on storm jib when it’s nasty out.
One little trick, if you ever need to fly your storm jib, take a moment to put a few sail ties around the furled Genoa. If the furling line breaks for any reason, the sail ties will help hold the sail furled up to prevent a catastrophe.
If you can reach the clew, a sail tie through the clew and around the furled sail will keep you golden during the storm 😉
Agree with everything you've said and can add this. I have a cutter rigged 33 footer and out of total of 6 hanked-on sails that i have, only one I've had made to size and paid a full price for. All others were in new conditions either donated by racers, where a smaller boat owner would give up a perfectly sized sail for my cutter stay or in other cases where I've paid the most $150 for. In all cases, I didn't ask for it - it was offered to me and I just couldn't pass. And to riff head sails, I just tack without releasing the wotking line, allowing it to backwind, letting the sail drop across the deck and then, hoist the other one on the opposite tack - it is very easy in pretty much any condition. Fair winds to all and please, riff earlier 🙏
Another excellent point. You can make almost any sail work on a headstay with hanks, not so much for a furler.
Interesting,
I come from mostly racing sailboats.
Our new to us 1990 Van de Stadt 34, steel hard chine, came with a 30 year old roller from a Nederland Co.
I kept it and had a 120 made for it.
We love it.
Bigger than 120?
Roll it, and add a drifter with a sown-in dynema line (that serves as a stay) to the bow fitting, hoist it on the #2 halyard.
Heavier weather?
Roll in the 120 some.
Heavier?
Roll-up the 120, raise a small jib with dynema line sown in the sail, hooked on the bow fitting and hoist it on the #2 halyard.
Real heavy? (40+ knots)
Get the roller sail down and stored away with small jib up.
I raced on boats where we carried 11+ headsails.
With some lost efficiencies, I can do the same conditions with three sets of sails.
The weight aloft, I agree, is significant. It is a simple triangulation calculation, one pound of meat 5ft from centerline at deck level vs. one pound of weight 5-10-30-50 up the mast.
Know your boat. It is rarely the boat's fault.
We sail the PNW.
Cheers,
a.
I have hank on sails and used to have roller furling. Agree completely.
I’m taking care of my parents, health issues and dementia my dad was not a nice person so he has a evil dementia. They’re raising my nephew that just put only abuse financial and physical so I did something crazy I bought a sailboat. I always wanted to sailboat. My daughter said when she was a baby, but I totally forgot, the boat is a good the boat is a good diversion. I never sealed before. I don’t know what anything is just watching TH-cam videos and I have a great passion for it. I guess I always have, but I always do for others if I get myself I got a awesome deal on a Pearson 23 it has a sliding keel the sails had more holes on it then Holy roller I really like your videos. You’re a professional as a rigor. My boats been sitting out for 25 years and the ropes don’t look too good.
I’m wondering if they are savable or it looks like a rats nest? How much rope would I need to re-rig the boat? I just discovered what a rolling Furler is. Lol we appreciate some help of possible. A caretaker was taken care of this person and things disappeared from the boat so I don’t even know if I have all the parts what’s your recommendation
On a boat that size, the replacement ropes will not be that expensive so I would definitely recommend starting fresh. Ropes are normally replaced every 10 years, so 25 years is a bit past the normal usable lifetime for the ropes.
I would recommend talking to a local rigger to have them replace the “running rigging” and probably the “standing rigging” as well for you. Have them set it up so that you can use it and start off having fun instead of starting off by troubleshooting everything that breaks.
I'm still building my boat from a bare hull. It's a heavy displacement cruiser. Hank on is the only way to go off shore. I never thought of hoisting a smaller sail over the larger bagged genoa. Thanks .. keep the videos coming.
Who is the designer?
Lot of wisdom in choosing a heavy displacement cruiser for offshore!
@@RiggingDoctor John Brandlmayr ... Spencer 42 .. I'm not in the water and so far loving my hank on. I've not sailed in anything stronger tha 15kts. I head into the wind to douse the sail. So far so good .. single handing. Biggest problem is keeping the boat pointed into the wind.
Been sailing for 48 years with hanked on headsails: Working jib, a drifter, a 130 genoa and last but not least a 210 genoa. When I drop the head sail I leave it hanked on and bag it or lash it to the rail. For years folks have been trying to get me to switch to roller furling and I politely say "No thanks". Because when all hell breaks loose... shit happens. I subscribe to the keep it simple stupid. By the way I'm 84 and when and if the day comes that I can't hoist the sails I'll pack er in
That’s a inspiration for us all! A 210 is a massive sail so there is no excuse for “the sail is too big to manage” rationale.
@@RiggingDoctor Right..with the 210 and main I've got around 1000 Sq ft and on reach my old Soverel 38 kicks ass.
Hi guys,
congrats to your channel,...
I understand most of your comments on the topic and appreciate it very much.
I am sailing on an Oceanis48 with a roller furler on the forestay and a hank on storm jib on a REMOVEABLE inner forestay.(which we leave permanently in action).
I am planning right now to change the hanked on storm sail on the inner stay for a second roller furler,....but all your arguments bring me back to square one :-)
The tensioning mechanism at the inner stay is about 120cm long, which makes it impossible to bring the hanked on storm jib on deck level.
The foldet sail bunch stays some 170cm above deck level which is annoying.
The idea with the downhaul is great, should help a bit and I will asap try it.
I kindly ask for your opinion on how to avoid having the lowered storm jib "up in the air"
Second question would be: what are "lazy sheets" ?? and what are they helping in that situation?
Fair winds
Christian
When we don’t have our staysail (same sail as your storm jib) up, we have it stretched long and tied to the toe rail to keep it out of the way.
Lazy sheets only really play a role when heaving to, as the sheet that would normally be the lazy sheet becomes the working sheet to back the jib and help keep the boat stopped in the water at a good angle to the waves.
I hope this answered your questions, and if it’s any help in your decision process, ours was also a removable inner forestay that I never removed and finally just made it a permanent stay since we always use it. The headstay was roller furler and the inner forestay was Hank on, and having the two I found that I preferred Hank on so I converted the headstay to Hank on as well.
Well I just had the forestay snap in high winds two weeks ago using the fuller on my Bayfield 25. Was a situation I don't want to repeat. The mast started coming over but we caught it in time, and the fulling system was being dragged on the port side of the boat. It's a heavy sail which actually seemed to slow the boat down in lght winds. I just got the new forestay connected up and decided to try the hankon jib I had. The boat performs a knot faster in light winds compared to the furling Genoa. I think I am going to really like it. Thank for your info. It was informative. You can check out my little Bayfield , Meet the Bayfield 25 on TH-cam
Glad it all worked out, and welcome to the easier way of doing things
i've had my roller furler fail on me and now i'm considering going back to hanks. the inner forestay has always been hank on, but the previous owner put a roller furler on it for ease of use. a few things to consider on my boat - the sails are extremely heavy, trying to lug 40-50kg sails around is a pain in the arse. also, i need to tack bare-headed, as the jib would tangle up in the inner forestay and the staysail (with the exception of storm jib or yankee) will foul up on the tender, so my tacking procedure as it was with roller furling was as follows: decide to tack, furl up jib, drop staysail and reposition on the windward side, tack over, unfurl jib, hoist staysail, continue as usual. hanks would mean that i would have to manhandle the jib (or even worse, genoa) which both weigh between 40-50kg around the front of the inner forestay, in wind an waves. bearing in mind that almost all of my sailing is long distance, mostly offshore stuff, so tacks are relatively few and far between. i'm still young enough to be ok with running around up the pointy end, although i am still mindful of the safety concerns as i only really sail solo. either way i still need to go up for'ard but i guess it'd be more work with the hanked jib. any thoughts?
We have found that tacking the jib with the staysail works better than just the jib alone. We keep the staysail backed and that pushes the jib forward and into the slot. Once it’s over, we then tack the staysail.
In your case, maybe flying the sails that don’t foul the dinghy as well as tacking the jib before the staysail might help.
Interesting. Your hank on discussion assumes stainless stays (and brass hanks). What are your thoughts about a dyaneema forestay or inner forestay?
What hanks would be appropriate (brass on dyaneema)?
I am a novice, so this may be a dumb question.
Not dumb at all! Our stays are all dyneema with chafe sleeves and for hanks we simply use dyneema soft shackles. It works great!
I appreciate your video very much for learning so much about the subject. I sold my C & C 32, which had a Harken furler. I worked well with the furler system with a 100% jib and the 130% genoa. The design of the boat is such that 60% of the power comes from the jib. So I used mostly the 130%, which I furled partially in winds of 17 knots and up... I just bought a newer boat, a 2006 C & C 115, which is mostly rigged for racing. I will receive and see the boat for the first time late next week... Obviously, I can't wait... I could not go see the boat because of the virus... Now, this new boat doesn't have a furler, and operates with hank on sails.... It'll be a learning experience. But I am sure I will prefer it, like you do. I am looking forward to give you further comments...
Thanks for your thoughtful vid mate...
BTW I've owned yachts in Australia since the mid 1980's and here the most popular insurance company requires that to insure the rig as well as the boat, the standing rigging needs to be changed every 10 years. There isn't now, nor has there ever been any stipulation to change the foil or headstay every two years, so someone has misinformed you I'm afraid...
It appears to be so. I read it in a book, so either they have changed the rules since the time it was published or the author chose to sell the book in a place as far away from the sailing grounds listed in the book. 🫠
I’m in the process of purchasing a sloop with roller furling, but after over 40 yrs of off shore sailing including two circumnavigations and having had both hank on and roller the roller on the boat I’m buying will be coming off.
I have to say I'm still in the roller furling camp. Good arguments for hank on, but good luck doing these procedures alone with small kids. My dad took us sailing solo at 5, 7 and 9 years old and no way he could have single handed while spending so much time on deck. Speed and off shore cruising hank on, comfort and accessibility roller furling.
My previous yacht of 19years had hanked on headsails. I had a #1-2 and three. Whenever I set off on a voyage I would choose which headsail to hank on based on the forecast and go with that. Most of the time the sail choice would be fine and if not then I would just deal with it. My current yacht of 12years has a roller furling headsail but I still have a #1-2 and 3 set of headsails. The difference now is I generally sail with the number 2 most of the time and change to the 1 or 3 for really light or strong winds respectively. Using the #2 for most of my sailing can mean I’m slightly over pressed on occasion or under canvassed on others. If the wind is significantly stronger than anticipated I can roll some sail away to deal with it. In summary given my age now I prefer a roller furler over hanks as getting on the foredeck in heavy seas and strong wind to change sails is something I would prefer not to do. However I would not have a furler with just one headsail as so many people seem to have as that is just asking for trouble.
I always had hank on, but was envious of roller, mostly because it provided not hauling around 80 pounds of sail ( i so much prefer fractional rigs). My "perfect" mast head boat would have a sail locker in-front of the V-birth, but behind a dedicated chain locker. Take the sail down, stuff it in the sail locker...clean decks and no crazy work bagging and carrying the sail around. A feature i missed you say (maybe you mentioned it), When the SHTF, it is sooo easy to rip down the Genoa, and stuff it in the V-birth opening. Get it the heck out of the way, off the deck and have it not be a hazard. That is the massive advantage, when safety is on the line, how fast can I do it. I am a heck of a-lot less worried about how long it takes to get a sail up for a leisurely sail.... how fast can I make the boat safe when I am fighting weather, other boats, the depth under the keel or all of them at the same time. I always assumed Rollers would be a negative, but I have never used one. My cruiser has hank-on and my racer had hank-ons, the other race boats i have crewed on had hank-on.
That is a great point that we didn’t mention. Stuffing sails through a hatch makes them disappear! We just lash the sail on the deck and leave it there tied to the toe rail where it is out of the way and out of the wind.
If you go to sea on passages...... Hank On has always been my choice. Sailor of 75 started sailing 1956 regularly for over 50 years and still do sail, have had both. This all belongs to the owner of the vessel and what they are most comfortable with. Repairs in isolated areas with furling issues can keep someone stuck perhaps. Fair winds to everyone. like the Video!
Very good points. I like to keep things as simple as possible but others may require the ease of setting sail
@@RiggingDoctor setting Sail is the ease of everything we do it for! To some I would say. The adventure begins even if for a day or months
Great argument! I've always coveted roller furlings for the ease. I agree with you completely though and I'm a day sailor. Thank you,
I have a 7.5 mtr trailer boat designed in the eighties for harbour sailing, it is near flat bottom and a tender bows. I found it awkward to go forward to drop the jib which is a self tacker, so I fitted a down haul line. Because I wanted to sail up to moorings and or sail off the ramp I tried fixing the down haul 2/3s up the hanks on the fore stay and used It to reduce sail area effectively a jib reefing to help provide gentle power. It was first fitted to get the sail down without going forward.
Necessity is the mother of all invention!
But…we are spec’ing a HR 44 foot center cockpit. 40-50 y/o couple, no crew. Do you think for a certain length and above, hank on sails would be a bit too heavy of a job? It offers “under deck” roller furling system. Wondering if that offers any addition issues.
One option is to simply fly lighter sails.
Being older and wiser, you probably don’t want a 120% Genoa in 20 knots of wind, so the bigger sails could be made of thinner (and lighter cloth) while the smaller sails will be heavier cloth.
Under deck furlers have the issue of hiding a rope jam since it’s out of sight, it is as difficult/simple to fix as an above deck variety.
First, I LOVE LOVE LOVVVVVVVVVE you guys! I really do. You've taught me so much. I also want to tell you a story. I have a boat here in Washington, and last winter we had a powerful storm. Upwards of 90 knot gusts. And in the middle of the night as all hell was breaking loose, so were the headsails on peoples' boats! We saw probably 6 or 7 headsails on roller furlings that had unraveled in the strong winds. And that was just in our little corner of the marina. We were running around trying to furl them in for people. Almost every sail that came undone was ripped to shreds. :( And not only that but it acted as a sail (obviously) and pushed their boats harder into the docks. I have hank on sails on my old Ericson sailboat and i love them! Thank you guys again!
Yet another reason to feel bad for people who don’t live aboard. They have complicated boats and it seems that every time they come out to their boat, something else broke.
Thankfully you all were there to bring in their sails so that they didn’t lose their entire rig in that mighty blow!
Glad you keep it simple, it sure makes slide easier ;)
I have a wire forestay on my boat, that I can rotate with an endless furler. So I hank on my jib and at any time I can decide, If I want to take it back down or furl it away. The best of both worlds. When I sail into the harbour single handedly it is nice to be able to reduce speed by just furling away the jib.
My first boat 23 ft had hanks and I love them.Easy to pack the sail in the bag with all the hanks in a neat row at the bag opening. Nice and easy and quick. My new boat 31 ft has roller furl. I will launch it this summer and let you know.
Keep me posted! I greatly value the opinions from those who have used both over strongly opinionated single-sided users.
Great video... people where trying to convince me to go roller ... because it was comftablento tack !! Thanks ..!!i keep my hanks !!
Yay! Good decision!
Amen. I've limited experience with roller furling headsails; it's mostly been luff groove on larger racing boats and hank-on jibs on smaller ones. But the latter seem best for short-handed sailing and reliability.
Indeed
My boat got a roller on the headstay, and a 2-position inner stay for hank-on's.
I have a 170% flat cut genoa/"code zero" on the roller, a 100% hank-on jib for the inner stay in the solent position, + a knife jib and a storm jib for when the inner stay is moved towards the mast.
I feel this gives me the best of both worlds: the largest and lightest sail on the roller , and only used in light winds.
Hank-on sails for offshore sailing , effective high-aspect knife jib for tacking and the storm jib close to the mast.
Very sweet setup!
I was considering a roller furler modification for my 9m catamaran.
One concern was that the roller furler mechanism would be in a place waves get to it? Salt water would possibly jam the mechanism or in the long run corrode parts?
After seeing this video I have decided to save my dollars and keep hank on headsails. Thanks for the informative video.
You are welcome! You just avoided many unnecessary headaches.
We have roller furling on our boat, but I sailed with both furling or hank on setup. Hank on is a great way when talking to changing the sails quickly or taking down. On the other hand - the classic way to get rid of the taken down sail is to drop it to the v-birth so it is not in the way when hoisting the new sail - so your v-birth becomes a messy sail locker in the end. Plus: how many boats have more than a jib+mainsail? Storm jib? hha, only one which left from the good old days when the boat was new (in the `80s). :) That said, the roller furler is the weak link in the rigging in my experience - they can jam up for many reasons... also, one can buy a decent sail for the price of a furler - so it is rather expensive. Plus: furled jib is out in the sun most of the time - uv damage is inevitable. All in all: hunk on is better/safer/cheaper in many ways, but roller is more practical for everyday life - like capsuled keel vs bolt on one. Most sailers use their boat for weekend sailing - for them, roller furling is more practical.
I sail club SJ 24th, coastal stuff, and we carry 3 foresails on each boat, 100% jib, 130% genoa and storm jib. Plus spinaker. Usually it is day sail, you just look at the weather forecast and choose one to start the day. The most (and I'd say for me the only) annoying part of hank on, is that I have to take down and pack the jib on return, where I would be rather already drinking beer.
For us small amateur racers, with just 1 or 2 crew, the debate remains but with very different arguments (lol).
Roller furler pros:-
A single setting provides what is always a very workable luff tension
Setting, and stowing a sail, in less then 5 seconds. There is nothing more satisfying than being able to, as you round a mark, have the genoa dissapear at the same moment the spinnaker sets. Or vice versa. So keeping full power on throughout the manouevre.
Keeping the foredeck as a clear working area.
Hank on pros:-
Clean luff causing less drag and turbulence over the sail.
Being able to tweak the luff tension to get the very best out of the current wind state.
Not having to compromise on the best headsail for the wind state.
Etc, etc..... Regarding reefing, the same arguments apply as given in the video.
However, in my personal case there is a very powerful argument for a roller furler. As a physically disabled person going up to the foredeck while at sea is NOT an option. But a roller furler enables me to sail single-handed and be able deploy and fully stow the genoa with a line to the cockpit.
That is a very true and wonderful feature of roller furling, it lets you do everything from the cockpit! I was just picturing in my head the swapping of headsails in 5 seconds as you round the buoy and that is an incredible feature that they offer!