HANKED ON FORESAILS, and why everyone should consider them
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Ok so this is just my opinion and please feel free to let me know what you think, but basically, although roller furler's and foils like the Harken carbo or Tuff luff systems are great for cruisers and racers respectively, if you sail short handed or want to do a bit of both, hanks are the answer.
To my mind the only question is why dont more boats use them? - บันเทิง
![WHY Two Headsails? [Cutter vs Slutter vs Solent] | Sailing Wisdom](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hQf_dmMduV4/mqdefault.jpg)
As a blue water solo sailor, the thought of going forward in heavy weather to do anything (hank on, unzip a bag, change a sail) sends terror to my heart. I realize I give up a bit of speed, but I really like being able to reef (even if a bit inefficiently) from the safety of the cockpit. Your rationale from a performance point of view is spot on Ian, but performance for a cruising sailor is measured in different dimensions than a racer or day coastal sailor might measure performance. Thanks for a great, thought-provoking video. Looking forward to you getting back out on the water.
Hi Patrick
Yup as i mentioned, really if all you do is cruise its hard to look past a furler, the convenience is worth so much. That said hanks are pretty well full proof and furlers do go wrong, normally when the winds up. And as much as I wouldn't want to go forward to change hanks on a sail, that would be much more desirable than trying to sort out a half rolled up sail that has jammed, is flogging itself to death and or threatening the integrity of the boat. Just a thought and I can see why some people might want to use hanks when sailing long distances
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily
Hi Ian,
Couldn't agree with you more - here in the Australian trailer sailing world, the concept of a headsail furler is fantastic, but the reality is very different. Few experienced trailer yachties use rod furlers due to their price, weight and vulnerability to damage when raising & lowering the mast. However rod furlers are the most reliable by a long way, but still degrade windward performance very noticeably. We always hank our headsails on and would not use any other system for our small 25 ft trailer yacht. Cheers, Gavin
I’ve never had a furling jib jam, and even if it did it wouldn’t present the difficulty described here to cut the furling line if necessary and drop sail. The small chance of that happening is far outweighed by the inherent dangers of going on the foredeck regularly to raise and lower sails in serious weather. We replaced our hank on staysail with a furling rig!! Can’t agree with ya on this, sorry
@@LearnToSailMexico I've never had a furler jam. Drum & swivel headsail furlers often come unfurled in a blow without the line being released. Bit lively on a 25' trailer yacht foredeck when your No 1 genoa suddenly unfurls itself in a 50 knot blow and you can't re-furl it. Never had a rod furler come undone or jam. Cheers, G
Trailer Yacht that’s interesting...are you wrapping several turns with your sheets around the sail, and how are you cleating off the furling line? I’ve seen it happen to many derelict boats on moorings, but a sail in good shape on a quality furler with an appropriate line should be pretty fool proof as well. But i agree that would be no bueno in heavy winds to have her roll out on ya!
On my last boat I had hanks. I added a downhaul, attached to the next to last hank from the top, fed through the hanks and led back to the cockpit. I'd pop the halyard , pull down on the downhaul, and use the sheets to center it on the foredeck.
Easy as pie.
Hi James. Thats a good idea, thanks for sharing. Sea Horse had a comparatively small jib so it was easy to manage but as the sails get bigger any thing that keeps them under control and on the deck becomes very useful.
Right on, James. Been doing it that way for sixty years. FWFS
I'm a newbie sailor trying to decide whether to stick with hanks or buy a furler and convert my jib/forsail. But this idea is genius to get it down quickly without going forward. Not sure it increases the risk of tangles but worth a try!
I like the weight savings on the mast and the weight savings you can make on your keel. You ride much better in rough seas. Safer, too.
Very true!
im 71 sail a 44fter single handed many miles , loved the hanked sail when racing but with a well cut furler of 'good' material , it keeps me sailing ' fast' & young in mind & body , love your vids... I dont race now ( only when theirs another sail on the horizon )
Hi Bill
Yup each system has its place and I can see why you would prefer a furler. And i know what you mean about a sail on the horizon, we just cant stop ourselves can we :-)
A friend of mine sailed until he passed away aged 77.
His last boat had furling Genoa and main,he always sailed with the Bimini up so he didn't have to look at the shape of "that bloody awful main"
Hi Karl
Yup I'm not knocking furlers, they have there place, and good on your friend for not letting age get in teh way fo his sailing. It just amazed me, having been looking at a range of cruiser/racer designs recently, how few people seem to look at the benefits of something else.
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily He was a lifelong racing sailor,completed 15 fastnet races!and he totally hated his furling sails!
Haha I'm sure you know the saying, what do you call two sailboats on the same body of water?.......A race (or something along those lines)
I have a slab reefable hanked on jib. Lots of solo/shorthanded sailing. It's one less sail change. I use it regularly and the reefed sail shape is perfect.
Hi Rob
Yup we have a reefable jib as well, although to be honest we haven't found the need to use it in anger yet as its a no3 and we can hold it in anything upto around 30 knots with reefs in the main and after that we stay in port :-)
And you can add a second set of reef points from the original tack to the reef clew outhaul-a blast reef that keeps the full luff but lifts the clew and foot up so they cannot hold water in heavy seas.
I totally agree. Complicated mechanical stuff makes me shiver and things sliding in slots just the same.
I'm totally going for Hanks.
Easy and simple!
Very reliable
Hi ya
Thanks for the feedback, good to hear from you.
never thought the hanks on my little '87 hunter 22 was a desirable thing, but you are right regarding ease of use and quick bagging
Hi all , relatively new to sailing here in Australia, i have a triton 24 with hank on sails, i have been thinking about getting a roller furler, but just yesterday at the marina a 35 ft boat returned to the mooring in 15 knots with a half deployed foresail, my sailing carreer is short thus far and this is the fourth time i have seen this , for me i have 3 foresails and a new storm jib ,i.m stick with hank on , cheers from oz
It can happen. Our film isn't to say that furlers are bad just that there are pro's and cons to every system. And in your situation we would tend to agree. If what you have works then don't be in a hurry to change, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I have to agree with you, sir. I've been cruising with a friend and his furler blew up on us (we are both bike mechanics and were able to rebuild it below deck and reinstall it the next morning) -- but chasing down all the ball bearings on the deck at night was no fun. We had to drill a hole through the outer part of the furler just to access a hex-key fastener to fully disassemble it. I'm not doing it justice, but suffice it to say, bonus points for my friend for cruising with a proper toolset and supplies! It turns out that there was a ridiculous design or assembly flaw in the furler that we let the manufacturer know about and I believe they sent a replacement unit, but our repair was good and addressed the issue so well it was not needed.
Also, another acquaintance lost their jib out of the foil during a race. What appears to have happened is that they used Sailkote on the bead of the sail to lubricate it BUT installed it in the foil slot/track before the lubricant's "carrier" had evaporated fully. It reacted with the material the foil slot/track was made out of and softened it (there are special lubricants for plastic and rubber parts to prevent this kind of damage). The slot/track deformed and spread under the wind-loaded jib and it came out. The foil was, I believe, permanently damaged and had to be replaced. This is not a knock against Sailkote -- it was user error in not allow the lubricant to dry before feeding the sail into the foil.
As you say, foils and furlers have their advantages and disadvantages, but sometimes the tried-and-true design of hanks is the best way to go.
Great story Larry
I should have made much more of the problems you can have with foils and furlers and the bullet proof nature of hanks. So thanks for sharing your experience.
Hanked on, slab-reef headsails are extremely practical & deliver a properly-shaped sail at each reefing point.
You, sir, are a genius! I've only ever sailed with a hanked on jib and I consider anything else just expensive conveniences. But, apparently the sailing dinghy I now own originally came with roller furling and since my furling gear was evidently lost some years ago I'm left to figure out how to rig the jib on my boat. Obvious answer - hanking the jib onto the forestay. Too easy, although I expect this will require removal of the wire rope inside the luff of the replacement jib I acquired. At any rate, I'd almost come to feel that hanking my jib on was now considered a low form of McGyver'ing since it's so rarely seen anymore. Thank you, thank you for nicely explaining why the simplest and oldest solution is often the best solution. Beer's on me if we should ever meet.
Hi Jerry. Good to hear from you and nice to know that there we arnt the only ones that can see the benefits of hanking on sails.
I see no reason to remove the wire inside the luff of the sail, as long as its possible to mount hanks? :) I´ve sailed a lot in the past on small keelboats and big dinghys that had wire luffs sewn into the hanked on jibs. Not the most fun to work with but sometimes it can even make it easier to roll up the jib since the luff gets really stiff.
But, I cant say I've seen wireluffs in any sails made this millenium, but I'm sure they are still out there ;) Modern sailmaking materials probably negate the need for wireluffs? :)
The answer is a furling genoa, PLUS a furling jib on an inner forestay. Electric if possible, so the beer does not risk spillage.
Hi Gordon.
yup a cutter rig does address many of the problems
Meh, hanks are simple. Everyone says it's scary to change sail but not as scary as ignoring the need to reef.
I just heave-to if it's really rough:)
Couldn’t agree more.. love my hanks and troublefree
Cudos for sacrificing your time and energy to give your pros and cons on hanking jibs. Excellent job. All I've ever had experience with in my youth and still use it today. That being said, I may get a furler put on just because I am now old and kinda lazy.
Hi Carl. Yup there is nothing wrong with furlers, they have their place, I was just pointing out that they arent the only way and that hanks do have some advantages. Thanks for watching
Great video and interesting comparison.
On my daysailer (an O'Day 20), I sometimes add a downhaul for the jib that brings it all the way down to the deck. My boat has two headsails and I can re-use the jib cars for the unused sail for the jib downhaul so it comes back to the cockpit.
Hi Dave
Another vote for hanks, thanks and yes adding a downhaul makes them even easier to use. On Seahorse in anything under 20 knots it just falls down so we dont really need one
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily - Same with our Farr 7500.
The downhaul is a simple device to fit and helps keep your jib halyard from wrapping around the head stay. I use the halyard and downhaul in conjunction with a clutch. Makes dropping that headsail very easy. BTW I started sailing five years ago on an ODay Day Sailer.
Good article Ian, and a great perspective on the difference between each system. Thanks.
Hi Brian
Good to hear from you and thanks for the feedback
Brilliant mate! Excellent insight as to hanked on sails, which, of course will wear out the fittings- that just means you’re SAILING!
Thanks WineRob, glad you liked it, nice to hear from you
I suppose it really depends on your boat and its OVERALL Rig and how it is setup. Older boats with nice wide side decks, High toe rails (or even better Bulwarks) With a nice bow pulpit. A cutter Rig (OR a Ketch) which was designed to spread the sail area among two head sails the main ( and Possibly a Mizzen) Was Designed from its inception for Hank on sails. going forward to change a head sail is part of the deal and the deck was designed to allow you to go forward safely with good safty lines hand holds and Jack lines)
It was designed to have a staysail with reefing points, a highcut head sail like a yankee jib is used (especially going to wind) the first sail down when it starts to blow is that yankee but the full Staysail alone is now the equivalent of a reefed genoa This basic setup is often Augmented with a variety of Light air and down wind sails possibly a Genaker or drifter, a Code Zero or even a asymmetric spinnaker. and lastly but most important is STORM SAILS.
As for going forward in heavy weather well ya no one wants to do that BUT once you drop the yankee all the weight aloft and windage of the head sail is no longer on the forestay the remaining Staysail is lower and more centered then a partially reefed genoa on a roller furler. Also furlers themselves add weight aloft and The rolled sail has far more windage then a bare head stay. And if Rain is accompanying that weather now the rolled sails are WET rolled sails so add the weight of the water to your weight aloft. all this reduced weight aloft can actually allow you to carry MORE sail in higher winds. And you want to plan ahead if you think the wind is going to pickup (See a Squal on the horizon) then REEF down NOW don't wait until its on you already. .
And talking about sailing in heavy weather proper storm sails are far better then any partially rolled head sail. Safety at sea is NOT about stay in the Cockpit its about Seamanship and setting up your boat to sail in heavy weather. I would rather have to go and bring down a hanked on headsail in anticipation of heavy weather and run up a storm sail. ya I may be out on the bow for 5-10 min as I stow the staysail and switch to the storm jib But once Im done my boat is far more ready to ride out a blow then any roller furler equipped sloop with a crew to afraid to go forward to put a sail in a bag never mind switch to storm sails that are heavy and wont get torn to rags like a lighter weight genoa designed for light are coastal sailing.
Its simple Design If your Genoa is going to give you good sail performance in light air ITS NOT going to hold up long partially rolled being used as a storm jib when it starts blowing over 30knts and if its made heavy enough to hold up to heavy weather ITS going to be too heavy to stay full when its a light occasional 5knt breeze. So your going to be motoring not sailing. Both when its extreme light wind or extreme heavy wind you just wont have the right sail for the job. but with hank on sails its a easy job to switch to the Sail designed for those conditions. And you will spend MORE time sailing and less time Motor sailing.
And if your boat was designed and setup properly AND MOST OF ALL YOU are properly practiced in setting up and sailing your boat in ALL conditions hank on sails can serve you better then any roller furled be all sail. (And for the cost of the furlling gear you could spend the money on sail inventory that will make your passages faster and and safer.)
Over all its really what type of boat you have how it is setup and how it was designed. I am a bit of a traditionalist And I kind of agree with Ian for many of his reasons.
Excellent contribution to the discussion, thanks for taking the time to comment.
Thank you so much for this very informative video!
Hi John. No problem, glad you found it useful. be sure to read through the comments as well for tips that others have left.
We are a 35' cruising boat with hank-on foresails. We carry a full compliment of foresails with even some overlapping backups.
One more thing about hank-on sails is that we have totally dispensed with the Spinnaker, and instead run a big 155% hank-on drifter in 1.5 oz nylon which is so much easier to hoist and drop than an asymmetrical cruising chute, especially short-handed.
We have no pole, no snuffer sock, no BS. We just hank it on and raise it like the big genoa that it is.
Dropping it is not any issue either. It can even be done with a downhaul from the cockpit. It could be run without the hanks if one wanted, or a whisker pole but it behaves so well that is rarely ever necessary. Plus it will sail upwind too.
Hi ya
Good point, they do add so much versatility to your sailing that people. Although furlers have there place I wonder how many of the people that are knocking hanks have ever lived with them to understand their benefits, or had a real problem with their furler yet (which will happen) to make them realise they are not all good !
Superb, concise and informative. Really good video!
Hi Stephen
Thanks, nice to know that you liked it
Hi Ian and the rest of your crew ,another bloody good vid mate ,and I just watched your little weekend cruise where you kept running aground great stuff ,looks like you are all having fun .Which is what its all about. My Jibs are allhanked on as well .Your sailing areas are a bit like ours on th Humber Mud Mud and mud everywhere. Great fun .
Hi ya
Nice to hear from you and glad to hear that your enjoying the films. And good to know that there is some one else out there with hanks. Thanks for commenting
I agree totally, A furler is nice in good weather I know I have one an a foam luff is nice as well yes I have that as well on a harken furler. For some time I've been talking about going back to hanks. I have a beautiful UK tape drive 155 and a perfect 100% jib that never goes up cause its a pain in my ass to change out head sails when there is one living on my forestay. I have to have hanks added to the inventory and a make a new forestay but I think its worth the money I do want to go with hank clips that you can do with one hand I also need to add a #4 and storm jib to the inventory. I do most of my sailing solo.
Good video thanks for posting it.
Hi Savavvah
Nice to hear from you and yes, its doesnt cost that much to convert and I think it would be worth it. Good luck
Reef Rite furlers in NZ have an interesting solution called Down Loader with Kiwi Slides. The best of both worlds perhaps?
Most yachts are used for relaxed cruising hence most are fitted with furlers ,they are easy to use and mostly reliable.End of story.Even more and more off shore race boats are fitting them now.Each to their own.
Hi Bevan
I dont disagree but there is a significant number of people that like to both cruise and race, hence the multitude of cruiser/racer boat designs that are on the market and although your right, a lot of larger offshore race boats use them now its because they have multiple sails fitted to multiple furlers. Even they dont want to be changing sails by feeding it up a foil in the middle of the southern ocean. But as you say each to there own.
Great video Ian. I myself sailed with both type of jibs. If I ever go cruising long distances, I'd definitely go with hanks. But for day sails with some land loving work colleagues I much prefer the furler. (Until it jams) :) my ideal setup eould be a cutter rig with both furling sails or a fuling Genoa and a second headstay for a hanked on storm jib as 2nd option.
Hi Jolie_Sailor
Yup at the end of the day you cant beat the conveniance of a furler for day sailing... or at least if all your doing is cruising for fun. Your right though a cutter rig would give you some more options
Great discussion here, Ian. I sail single handed a lot, this summer I may be racing alone too! A wise sailor suggested keeping a second foresail hanked on below an in-service foresail. So, if you have to change sails, at least one is already in place ready to go, after you have unhanked the first one. I’ll give it a go this summer, albeit probably not during a race. I had a smaller day sailor,a 17 foot Siren, and I did love that furler!
I always look forward to your videos, keep up the good work, all of you! 😊 ⛵️
Hi Kathryn
Nice to hear from you and yes, as you say hank on the second sail below the first and its ready to go. Thats the beauty of hanks in that you can always keep control of a sail. Its either in its bag or hanked on... no need to have loose sail flapping around on the deck
Best sailing book I have mentions that roller furlers add weight (up high) and windage. Both add to rolling at anchor and terrible in storms. I've been out on Lake Mead in 40 steady with 50 gusts and bare poles and skinny wire rigging (where the hanks go) was more than enough to make a good run. One boat I could have picked up for $1000 bucks was dismasted because the furler unrolled in 80 mph winds and snapped the mast. I agree with you. If its too rough/windy to go out on deck, I'm running main only (reefed) anyhow. When something goes wrong sailing, it is at the worst conceivable time. But then again, I'm poor, fix my own stuff/problems and like simple.
Hi Sailing Aeolus. Interesting story re the unfurled sail. I should have bought that up, every year we see two or three boats on our river loose there fore sails because they come unfurled on the mooring and are trashed before any one does any thing about it... and can well image that in the 80mph the mast goes as well. Thanks for the feedback,
Good points,i have a furler and when it's unfurled all the way it works perfect. When i reef it it all goes downhill, it looses its shape completely. Thanks cheers
Hi George
Exactly, they are good at what they do furlers but they are far from perfect
On my boat i brought the clew and leech of my foresail up directly in line with my mast. This prevents any need to adjust the foresail while tacking or gybing as the sail is free to fill on whatever side it so pleases to. All you gotta do is turn the wheel. Its also connected to a roller furler. It can be operated by a single halyard which is attached to the clew and passes through and electric winch which is controlled from the helm. This does limit my performance while sailing upwind or downwind but i very rarely sail upwind and never downwind. My boat is optimized to sail best on a reach.
Hi Josh. As you say what ever works for you.
There are also situations where roller furling won't work or is at least as much of a hassle as hanks. Like club-footed staysails on some cutters, especially the kind where the staysail boom isn't attached all the way down at the tack of the sail.
Plus, lose a hank or two and you'll probably be all right at least for a while. Lose a foil and you're liable to suddenly be trying to recover a jib or genoa-sized sea anchor.
Exactly, roller furling is a great invention but its not a perfect fit all. Hanks should always be considered.
I’ve always seen hanks as a pain in the stern - but only ever dealt with hanks on 150m2 Yankees or code 0’s. Never thought about for a cruising boat... kind of makes sense what you’re saying. ;)
Hi Ian
Thanks, they wont suit every occasion but for the kind of cruiser racer that we are looking for they are the best solution
Hi There. While at Peak Physical Fitness, and with at least one other on the Helm, Cruising, You can't beat Hank on Foresails and Traditional Mai sails. It's actually fun Bouncing around on the foredeck. I was going to start Racing, then the 1979 Fastnet Tragedy Struck, and my response was Screw that for a game of Soldiers, and .I've been daysailing and Cruising ever since, and frankly, becamevrather wary of Sailboats that had Racing aspirations. Now, I'm a lot older, disabled, and the only way I can keep with Sailboats rather than switching to Motorboats, involved having a serious rethink, if .I would like to Sail As Far as I want to, with liveaboard Cruising, so ease of use, and slight performance penalties are unavoidable. So in Mast Furling, with a battenless TriRadial Dacron Main, Offshore Soec, triradial means almost the same performance as a battened cross cut main, and .I get chafing and wear and tear almost completely eliminated, and sail coating means reliable furling and unfurling, with the final reef, equivalent to a staysail. A 125% Genoa, heavy cloth with oversized halyard and sheets to an oversized electric Winch, to get furling manageable down to Storm Sail size, and a furling Downwind Sail, that can be kept up furled if necessary. Not Racing, just Cruising, and avoiding trouble as much as possible. Everything's a Compromise, and different circumstances demand accepting different compromises. While missing foredeck action, being able to continue Sailing, More than Compensates. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍🙂
Nice to hear from you Bob and good to know that you haven't let lifes little setbacks get in the way of your sailing. The point of the film really wasn't to tell everyone that they had got it wrong rather to make everyone that wouldn't ordinarily even look around at options stop and think. Furlers for any sail are great, and for many people such as your self they are the right choice, its just that for others there may be alternatives worth considering.
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily
Agreed 100%. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍🙂
I also have an older (Bostrøm 31 Mk2 from 1978) boat in original condition that I bought two years ago. No self tailing winches, no auto pilot, no furling and all halyards at the mast... it's all pretty manual and I love it for that.
I haven't had to reef the head sail yet but am planning for the time I will have to do so. My plan in theory is to: 1 - move the lazy jib sheet to the reef clew. 2 - Tack and then heave to. 3 - move the other (now lazy sheet) onto the reef clew. 4 - Lower the halyard and connect the tack onto the deck. 5 - Use shock cord to tie up the loose foot of the sail. Would appreciate any constructive comments on this planned procedure. Cheers all!
Hi ya. Sounds like a good plan to me... once youve done it once you will find out whats wrong but I would say thats a good plan to start with
Quite simply, agreed.
Thanks Andy, good to hear from you
I've done a LOT of single-handed sailing (admittedly mostly in semi-protected waters and mostly cruising) and have had both hanks and furling. I much prefer the furling, but I can see the disadvantage when racing. My Solution for not having to go forward and change sails all the time is a heavy, 110% jib that performs "ok" in light air, but I can carry it up to 20 knots or so upwind. I put that on a furler so I can easily change from motoring to sailing if the wind is flakey.
Hi ya
Yup if you are mainly cruising then the convenience of a furler is very appealing, and as you say gets even more appealing if your for sail isnt to big, that way you can hold onto it for longer thus reducing the time you have to sail with a half furled, badly set sail.
Furled headsail, hanked solent. Everyone's happy except those who want to use the furling sail when lots of tacking will happen.
Yup cant argue with that
Hey Ian. I'm with you. Hanks on my boat because I single hand mostly. No one mentioned yet that with hanks, you can have battens on your head sails! Means you have to roll up to stow away. But who cares if sail shape is a must.
Hi Grant
Yup we have battens in both of our jibs that help in some ways as they keep the sail straight when you put it in its bag but hinder when you then want to fold the bag in half to stow it. We manage though, you just have to find a system that works
Hank on all the way little more work never hurt it’s what separates the men from boys or girls so to speak cheers from Texas oceancowboy
Hi ya
Another vote for hanks :-)
This choice depends a lot on boat size. On a dinghy (say 30 feet or less) sails are a manageable size and can be relatively easily dealt with on the foredeck. But when the boat gets bigger the head sails quickly become unmanageable. There is absolutely no way I would want to drag a 500 sq ft head sail up onto the foredeck in any breeze or chop and hank it on. It is much easier to push the button that runs the hydraulic furler. Frankly, if you must race, buy a dedicated racer that you can equip with hanked on or foil attached sails. No boat that is suitable for cruising will be an optimal racer even if you strip all the cruising gear off for the race. Finally if you maintain your furler and set it up and use it properly it won't jam. If you must have multiple sails, buy a cutter and rig multiple furlers. Of course on some cutters the slot between the two forestays is rather small making it virtually required to furl the jib to tack. That is particularly true if you are using a laminated high tech sail with carbon tape reinforcements where flogging against an inner stay can destroy a multi-thousand dollar/pound/euro sail in seconds.
I have a 20ft trailer sailer with hanked on jib and genoa. A simple downhaul to get the sail down on deck, tighten the sheet on the side it comes down on so it lays out along the deck,all done from the cockpit, then when things settle down bungee cord it along the toe rail. Would like a furler to shorten sail instead of dropping it completely, but a simple system with less to go wrong, which will do me for now.
Hi Phillip
Absolutely, that is the one thing I should have stressed but forgot. There is nothing much that can go wrong with hanks were as a furler can give you all kinds of problems, and that normally happens when the winds up!
Same goes for the main. Old school is my preference if you have ever had rollers/furlers fail at sea with storming.
Hi Thomas. We agree but as we have had little first hand experience of furling mains etc felt it unfair to comment on these. Nice to hear from you and thank you for contributing to the discussion.
Safety is the big issue why I choose hanked on sails. I don't have to worry about being over canvases when the furler jams. I can fix/replace hanks at sea - can't do a damn thing about a broken furler. Too much dependence on a single sail. If I blow out a sail, I've got others to get me home. I've had too much go wrong to depend on mechanical devices that can break. I keep it as simple as possible.
Hi Lucas. Great another vote for hanks. Thanks for watching
I hate to point this out but you can get a furler that is on a foil, they have been around for years. We love our foiled furler, best of both worlds PLUS we dont have to send anyone forward when the sea is up, great for short handing and it can all be done from the comfort and safety of the cockpit
Hi Mike
I do realise that, we used to have a Facnor furler on our SunFast 32i which would allow you to remove the drum for racing, so that you could use full length, deck sweeping sail when racing and then fit the drum and use a conventional sail for cruising. Sounds like the best of both worlds except its still a pain to change sails... which when your racing is important.
If your a cruiser, then a furler is perfect but for racing short handed racing, as many people do, I still think hanks are best
Our boat is designed as a mainsail-dominant boat, with a self-tacking jib as the only headsail. We only have one jib, so a roller furler makes sense for us. Our previous boat had hanked-on foresails, and as I'm almost always sailing solo, that caused a lot of hassle, especially in windy conditions. The sail wants to blow back up the forestay if your headed into the wind, making it very hard to de-power the headsail during a drop or sail change.
Our current roller furler is of a more basic design with the jib hanked on, and the entire forestay rotating. No track to feed it into.
A hanked on roller furler, now that sounds like a great idea, best of both worlds then. Can you tell me more?
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily Sure, but some would argue that our setup is more like the worst of both worlds, haha! In essence, the entire forestay has been cut off at either end to insert a heavy-duty ball-bearing swivel (at the top) and a similar swivel with a line drum for the furling line (led aft). The jib is hanked on, but our sail was made with thick webbing band flaps that go around the forestay, and lock with metal buttons. No brass hanks, although those could be used but would wear more on the sail when furled tight. The halyard is led up along the forestay, through a block mounted below the top swivel, and then back down along the stay. The jib is essentially only hoisted once per season, and the halyard secured at the bottom of the forestay, above the line drum. When the jib is rolled in, it wraps around both the forestay and the halyard. Our setup isn't optimized for quick sail changes, so our halyard takes a good while both to fasten and let go. Should the need to take the sail down often arise, we would have to make some kind of "quick release" for the halyard. As it is now, we keep the jib on all summer, with a proper cover (sewn by yours truly!) I plan to go sailing this weekend, so I could try to get a short clip of the furler in action and post here.
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily Got a short bit of video for you.
th-cam.com/video/td83f8nNH3U/w-d-xo.html
Sorry for the slow response, as it had a link in it TH-cam blocked the comment. Ive approved it now. And that's great, thank you for sharing
Thanks for this video.
You're welcome
Or you could get an Alado Furler two tracks. Has one halyard per track. Super easy to install and manage. I have installed one on last couple of boats.
Hi Tango Real. We have never tried that make but in our experience pulling sailing up and down furler tracks is never that easy. We had two tracks on the first couple of boats that we owned and never made use of the second track, but may be its different with that make. Thanks for watching and for contributing to the conversation
I had a Hank on Genoa on my Hunter 20. After 8 sail changes cruising solo round Plymouth in offshore winds, I couldn't get a furling Genoa soon enough! Never regret it whilst out for the day, the boat is small and very easily over canvassed. The speed I loose through lower performance is made up for since I'm likely to put more sail out sooner with the furler.
Hi Alex
Absolutely, if your just cruising the convenience of the furler will win everytime... until it goes wrong when its blowing a gail and its half unfurled, then you might reconsider :-)
I had hanks on my last boat. They worked great.
Cool, another vote for hanks :-) Nice to hear from you, thanks for commenting
My head sail waeighs 27 kilos. Lifting around the boat can be a hand full so a furler is the way to go for cruising and a sunday sail. Also it does not take up space below. I have 3 smaller sails with hanks for an inner fore stay. East to carry and lift and small to stow away. Also safety with the extra sails if the large headsail is damaged. Consider slugs that will fit into the furler and the hanks can fit into the slugs. You donot need many on the right sail. Maybe a yankee cut on furler and stay sail on the inner fore stay. Solves a big problem if you cant or dont want to use the big sail on the furler. Also second hand smaller hanked on sails are cheap and im many cases seldom used but have been in sail bin on a yacht for a few years.
Hi Denis. Your right, if you have, or can rig a second head sail then you can have the best of both worlds. My point really was that people think that a furler is a must have, yet on many boats, certainly on smaller ones or boats that want to race a bit, there are benefits to what people think of as old fashioned system. Thanks for watching and for contributing to the discussion.
I have hanks on my ‘73. I feel less complicated it is, the less that can go wrong 👍🏻
Hi Jerry
Absolutely, is should have written a script or something for this film as there are a lot of things, like less to go wrong, that i should have mentioned. So nice to hear from you and thanks for contributing with the discussion
i have a selden that has a split furling drum...when racing i carry a Heavy #1, Lt. #1 and a #3, #4 (if its honking or distance race) then for cruising I snp the furling drum on (10 min job) and have the #2 cut for the furler...best of both worlds
Hi Mike
Yes we had a Facnor removable drum fitted to our Sun Fast 32 and it as you say its a better system than just having a foil or conventional furler. You dont get the easy sail change benefits though of hanks and again as a shorted handed sailor thats a big draw back. Thanks for commenting though it is another option for people to consider
I can answer you question. Safety safety safety... if you are bluewater or short handed as you said you want and do it is a good way to go. I agree hank on sailing has a benefit but safety always comes first evan over performances. A rolling furled can have a safety issue if you dont do your maintaining and inspection.
For the genacker is better not to have on furler ? But with hoise down thing? Strumpa in Swedish .
Genoa furling and a stay sail för hard wind.
Great rant :)
Thanks Colin
You don't see them on bigger boats, but a zippered luff makes a nice racing shape combined with a lightweight furler so you can alternate with a spinnaker from the cockpit. Sail changes would only happen between races. But they could share the same forestay with a hank'd on set. Good video as always Ian.
Hi Ray
Nice to hear from you, zippered luff... not sure I know what you mean could you elaborate as it sounds like another good solution
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily You see them on catamarans 18 to 20 ft. Plastic zipper goes the full length of the luff. I guess the zipper doesn't handle the loads that you see on bigger boats.
ahh ok, ive seen things like that on dinghys as well although not on bigger boats. Same problem as foils though i guess in that all the time the sail isnt zipped on the forestay its effectively loose, and free to get into all kinds of trouble ;-)
i have the same system with hanks, except i have a double forestay, so before a trip/race i select 2 foresails i will/might use depending on the weather. I hank then in both and just select the right halyard at the mast for the sail i want to use. During the 2 years i use that system on my halcyon 27, i never met any difficulties changing the foresails.
Hi David
Cool another vote for Hanks, and I'm interested in the idea of a double forestay. Its never really a problem for me as when im racing I'll just chose to change the foresail when the spinnaker is up, so dropping the old and hoisting the new is never a problem. And when we are cruising a couple of minutes swapping hanks over isnt such a big deal... other than the time on the foredeck, which isnt ideal but to be honest we always rig on the side of caution when cruising so rarely have too worry.
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily i also go mostly solo in competition and i don't have to change sails on the forestay because both are there. Also i never spinnaker as i have a huge lightweather genua and a smaller genua2 for heavier weather (4+bft)
Sounds like a good system
Well put Ian, maybe you could do a follow up video talking about your sail wardrobe, racing v cruising
Hi Chris
Thats a good idea, I might just do that. When i have been looking at boats that are available, the first thing i look at are what sails it comes with so it might make another interesting discusion
Totally agree with you Ian. The only other style of forestay I have enjoyed was a double grooved headstay, not roller furled, which made changing headsails fun while cruiser racing in changing conditions. And all around the SE US Atlantic and Gulf coast when hurricanes hit us you can see pictures of well moored cruising boats with ripped and flogging roller jibs because someone forgot to take them off as weather was approaching. Even with good covers they can only take so much.
I was wondering about the shots of the windmills, how is the wind around them? Do you see much disturbed air downwind if them or are they spaced far enough apart that it doesn't matter? I assume they have an exclusion zone.
Hi Capt
Good to know thats another vote for hanks. Re the windfarms, I guess they must be doing something but although they seem to fill the horizon they are big, so in actual fact the blades are high up and a long way apart so ive never noticed any turbulence from them. Not that I have ever raced around them or anything, then i might have a different opinion
Cool, thanks.
I love Seahorse's steering, rig controls etc. Next boat I'm sure you'll incorporate many things you learned with this one.
Despite my style of sailing being to set the windvane steering at the start of the day and then touch nothing until I reach my destination just before the sun goes down, I'm going to agree with you on this one. I had always sailed boats with hanked on sails until I bought Serenity four years ago. For single handed sailing the roller reefing I have is great for cruising. However, I have no way of easily putting on a Storm Sail which is something I would like to carry. There are solutions to this on the market - but they all look very unwieldy.
I would have no problem going back to hanked on sails.
Hi Paul
I had a couple of sails adapted from a furler, to hanks for sea Horse (our cruising Dacron No3, and a Mylar racing No1) and in both cases it didnt cost that much and was a fairly easy job. Or at least its much easier than going the other way :-)
I use hank on on my Spencer 42. I'd love to see a video of you actually handling stowing the sail in it's bag on deck and deck bag designs. .. thanks
Hi Lowel. Good call and perhaps we should have made a film of that however the current boat has lazy jacks and a stack pack system on an overly high boom, like many other cruisers so we cant do it now.
Watching your commentary made me think of another potential disadvantage of furlers. If the angle of the jib halyard is wrong at the top, or you haven't tensioner it sufficiently, it can wrap around the forestay and snap it!. I speak from bitter experience, but as a cruiser family and often single handed, I still have it for the convenience.
Hi Grant
Thanks, your right. I should have made much more of the things that can go wrong with furlers. When they work they are great but when things go wrong they can go wrong badly. As it happens there is a boat on our moorings at the moment thats had a furler line fail, and in the 40 knots of wind that we have been experiencing this weekend it has shredded the sail before anyone could get a boat organised to sort it out
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily I feel for that skipper. Had a headsail unfurl on a swing mooring. Now I never leave the boat without tying a short length of rope around the middle of the head sail.
Yup we used to do the same back when we had a furler. In the winds we had this weekend we would have also wrapped a line around the boom and sail cover, just to control the flogging and protect against the worst.
I've gone back to the hanked on sail concept because the furled 150% that the boat came with was too much for the boat. The original jib is a standard jib, but I just bought a large drifter for light wind days. What would your thought be on managing the sheets for these two? Would it be ok to have a dedicated sheet and use a soft shackle to connect to the foot of a newly set jib, or would it be advisable to rerun sheets after each sail change?
Hi Ed. Not sure there is a wrong answer to that question. I do know though that modern ropes are way stronger than most people realise. I have connected jib sheets onto even large sails with just a bowline and some 4mm braided line before (in fact I still do!) and its never failed on me yet.
I find no convenience in a roller furler. Ever had one bird nest and have to go up on deck to unjamb it. Constantly, always when a front is coming over. Jib Downhaul is the answer to making hank on sails safer. I never have to go on deck during a blow with a jib downhaul. It also pins the jib to the deck and is very easy to unclip the hanks and roll the sail from the bow to the companionway into a bag because it naturally flanks itself with the jib downhaul. I don’t race period. A family cruiser sailing with my daughter whom usually is asleep down below!
Hi ya. Absolutely. My point for making this film was to show everyone that there are other, and for some people, better ways of handling a foresail than just the ubiquitous furler
Adding a downhaul to a hanked on jib seems the way to go but does it increase the likelihood of tangles or jams?
I enjoyed your perspective on the topic and for your usage, it makes sense. I also totally agree regarding compromised head sail shape with furlers...... sailors have become very lazy with head sail changes. Furlers were originally designed for the safety and convenience of quickly hoisting (unfurling) and dousing a head sail when it started to blow, not for one sail to become every sail! However, I was puzzled by your first point regarding the fact that most of the boats you've been looking at to buy, were not right because they had furlers?! You do realise that underneath the foil section of a furler is a regular forestay and that you can simply remove the furling drum and head stay foils and you're good to go..... well ok, it involves a little bit of effort but it shouldn't put you off the 'perfect' new boat just because it has a furling system.....
Hi Mark
Your absolutely right and that's what I would do, although i would probably get a new forestay made to save breaking up the old one. My point really was that it appears so few people ever look past a foil or a furler (seeing as none of the boats i looked at had anything different) and therefore there current owners at least are missing out.
Padded luff worked very well for me. Kept a good shape in force 5 plus. You are more race orientated so maybe need more performance. But the foam should not undermine performance when unrolled. You make good points though. I enjoyed having hanked sails. I guess furlers make life a bit easier but if I bought a boat without one I would not be rushing out to spend money.
Hi Directorstu
Yup if your a cruiser then they make perfect sense, id do the same... but for us that want to do a bit of racing then furlers are less and less appealing
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily indeed. I'm not a racer but I was foredeck guy as a kid and mine are getting to that age now. Nothing more satisfying than wrestling a flapping sail on a plunging foredeck.
I have recently bought a Bradwell 18 trailer sailer which came with a roller furler for the headsail but promptly disintegrated when the mast was being put up. To replace the furler would cost nearly as much the boat is worth. I was advised to use the existing sail which already has eyelets in it and attach piston clips so it can be hanked onto the forestay. What I am confused about is the deck fitting. I can't seem to find any information or photos of how the attachment at the bow should be and whether I need to upgrade the deck fittings at all. I don't suppose you would have any photos which might help me work out what I am meant to have? I am a newbie to all this so would appreciate any help anyone can offer.
Hi Sarah. No photo's I'm afraid but nothing to be afraid of. All the major forces go through the forestay so the fixing for the tack of the jib just needs to be strong enough to help the sail hold its shape. On Sea Horse the bow fitting had a vertical plate with two holes in it. The furthest forward had the forestay shacked to it and the one behind we attached the sail to. Hope this helps.
Thank you for your reply, very helpful! From your description it sounds like I have it set up correctly
I don’t find any convenience in furling sails. Had one on my Columbia 29. Problem was roller a genoa out to a small jib was never a good air foil.
Hanked on sails are great in the right situation, and I often wish i had them - but when you are young/fit/strong it's a lot easier! - when you're in the Artic in 4m waves - it's easier to furl!
Hi ya
Yup everything has its place, and they wont suit every occasion. That said if your in the arctic, in 4m waves in a building breeze and you need to shorten sail, what happens when the furler jams half way in, as they do, then you'd wish you had hanks!
You are so right . I crossed oceans run a daysailing for 15 years, mostly all single handed . Miles miles miles , sails up down up down ...
I
Loved my hanks . Best system , easy and SAVE . That sail is down in a second if needed and up and standing right too
Good show
Hi Marcell
Thanks, nice to hear from you and good to have another vote for hanks. I'm surprised, I was expecting more people to argue against. But in actual fact, although people rightly point out that cruisers like the convenience of furlers and that they have there place no one really has a bad word for hanks
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily Hi, I want to vote for a compromise for offshore cruising.
Best rig for cruisers in my opinion is the cutter rig. Handy sails for all wind directions and strengths. Especially with an overlapping genoa on a furling forestay, and a hank on staysail with an additional jiffy reef on the inner forestay. With that configuration (and a third reef in the main) you are ready for everything, that the seas might throw on you. Without carrying sails on deck and wet sails back into the cabin. With one exception: when entering the tradewinds you will use the second keep of your furling profile for a second genoa in order to have tradewind sails. On a furler you will adapt the sail area of this dubble genoa for sailing just below hull speed all the way.
My furler (Goiot) is now 34 years old. Never failed. I sailed 17.000 nm within the last three years. Transatlantic twice.
Hi ya
Absolutely, everything has its place. I'm looking more at the mass market and at the inshore, cruiser/racer, which lots of people buy and which would be much better boats if fitted with hanks
It all depends how much time you want to spend on deck and how much faff you are prepared to put yourself through for that extra 1/4 knot. Depends I suppose what sailing you are doing, transatlantic those 1/4 knots will add up! With my furler reefed I haven't noticed a huge drop off in speed or performance. My crew (the missus) reluctantly steps ashore with a rope and hanging fenders is her limit, help flake a sail spilt over the deck (the other video) or going forward to help with a hanked foresail - you must be joking! - If you race with a crew fine give them something to do but for short handed coastal cruising (not racing) why put yourself through all that? Great vids though, either side of the debate they are thought provoking.
Hi Adrian
Yup thats kind of my point really. Furlers have there place as do foils its just that the world seems to forget about hanks. For all the people that just do coastal sailing with the occasional race, as an awful lot of people do, hanks would seem to have a lot to offer
I only leisure on the water, so furler it is.
If it works for you then absolutely, the film is just to open peoples eyes to the options
Just watched your new film on Lazy jacks. Unfortunately the video police have blocked comments for it. Let's hope you get out sailing again soon.
Hi Grant
I know, its so frustrating. If any one knows of a way to contact TH-cam about this I would love to know how
Sorry you have not been well Hannah. I have watched the videos for some years.
Hi Great to hear from you and we are on the mend so will be back out on the water again this year. Thanks for your support.
Some thoughts. Wind needs to 'stick'/flow along backside of sail. Maybe having some distance between stay and sail makes wind turbulant, then it will not follow profile that well.
Hi Peter
Yup that is a factor and perhaps some one more informed could let us know how much effect it has... but that said foils have thickness to them that is all drag and they are also more weight aloft so I bet its a close run thing. Id lay odds that foils are better, but not by much
I've always thought it was more the 'lumpiness' at the leading edge that hits your efficiency more than the turbulence from the stay. Because there are a range of attack angles present rather than one fair twist all the way up. I've never sailed a boat with brand new sails, so maybe it's a function of that, but no matter how hard I tension the jib halyard I can't get the leading edge as smooth as with a foil jib.
I'm sure your right or the foil wouldn't have been invented, but how much worse is it. Id say, not much, and then when I factor in ease of use etc then for the short handed sailing the hanks win easily
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily No I wasn't disputing that foils are far more work. I do still use hanks after all.
Such a perfect size......what size is this.sail boat??
Hi ya
She is a 29ft Hanse 291, and they are great boats. She is for sale if your interested and local :-)
th-cam.com/video/7KmuZUOsZxs/w-d-xo.html
Sailing with the Foxwell Family 7
i have been very close to convert from roller to hanks. For good or for bad i managed to fix the furler so i left it there.
In my eyes the furler has only two big advantages.
One. In moderate winds you can reef the sail in a blow when you know couple of miles further it will drop again.
Second. When you arive the sail is rolled on the forestay doesnt take any space on deck.
Hovewer hanks have multiple advantages.Ease of use, safety (nothing can really fail), and access to a huge amount of used sails..
Also in a race time to hoist a hank sail is maybe 1 minute less that hoisting a #5 luff....
fair winds
Hi Billaros
yup good point about the convenience of a furler in changeable conditions, I hadnt considered that... but we'll still be sticking with hanks :-) Nice to hear from you, thanks for the input into the channel
I don't know what size of boat you will be looking for, but a headsail of more than 30 sqm is not easy to handle with hanks. I have 35 sqm (100%) jib and it's on a furler. Unlike a big genoa, I hardly ever need to reef it. Only the main sail. Upwind a jib is as quick as a genoa and much easier to tack with single handed. Going off the wind I use a code zero.
Hi Brian
Yup I really dont like large overlapping foresails either. As you say a smaller jib has minimal performance loss but is much easier to handle and manoeuvre. We have a code zero as well, which I'm not a great fan of although we have ours in a bag so its more of a faff to use. I suspect if I had it permanently rigged on a furler I'd like it much more, but for us, its great at light wind reaching and fetching, but on any other point of sail a large head sail or spinnaker is better
Thanked on sails are great if you can lift them . My headship weighs 27 kilos. To heavy to start swapping and changing on a cruising yacht.
Hi Matea. Yup dont disagree, there does come a size of boat, and sail, at which its just not practical.
My point for making the film was really to highlight the fact that just because furlers have become common place, they aret the only solution and that for many applications there are actually better ones available. Thanks for watching and for contributing to the discussion.
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily I prefer a high cu
Some really good points there Ian. Tend to agree with you having raced, costal cruised and done ocean passages. We think it comes down to the type of sailing you do mostly. Comfort levels, Crew. But more, the type of foresail and rig set up. We looked at padded luff, furling foresails and foils. When we chose the boat we were going to sail away in, we wanted performance and also ease of sailing. The rig we have has a high aspect ratio foresail or blade jib. At 105% its small compared to conventional rigs with furling foresails of 120-130% or more. The effect of furling is much reduced when taking a furl. The main is bigger. The way this works is that the jib is set to optimum and the main then brought in to give a slot between them. The air off the jib in it's acelloration (traveling faster) then travels over the main on the leeward side. The lift created is phenomenal! A few points out and the boat is ordinary, get it right and Impavidus exceeds her hull speed and at 10 degrees of lean she is fast, very fast. We can sail at 28 degrees apparent and in 15 knots at that wind angle we are exceeding 7.5 knots. We do use a few tricks like pulling in the windward sheet (like an in fecker) to curve the shape for more lift in lighter winds on a beat. and other little tricks. The disadvantage is the smaller Jib downwind means you are relying on the main. Downwind sails are a must. On a beat in higher winds just reefing the main a little reduces the power in the big main. So its that we reef first and the jib is only reduced when we go below 50% main. It works for us but as you said it is all a compromise. Great video and it's good to see the thought you have put in to this. Not a rant! Sail safe. Ant & Cid (SV Impavidus)
Hi Guys
Nice to hear from you again and great comment. thanks for explaining your setup and what works for you. What type of yacht is Impavidus? And I agree with the whole smaller foresail argument. a small jib big main makes it much easier to balance the boat and as you say reefing using the furler is then, well, less horrible :-)
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily Hi Ian. Impavidus is a 2015 Bavaria 37. She modified in quite a few ways for our journey to the Med and onboard living. We have two boat tour videos up but they are not that good. Hoping to update them soon. Mean while this is a video that shows her on relaunching last March. th-cam.com/video/YhPAbAqJw50/w-d-xo.html . Ant.
Hi guys, great looking boat, thanks for sharing
I guess the furling proponents never had a furling line override or other failure with their genoa out when they really needed it in? That is real, happened to me on a 43' charter with a big genoa out. Then a grub screw loosened and the foil started to separate. That was fun. Ever see videos of boats out of control because they cannot furl nor drop their genoa. Then even better the sheets get jammed? then they hit something or have to cut the sheet. giant flogging genoa. these are real issues and events, not abstractions like "it is scary on the foredeck". cool thing = cutter rig with hanked on sails, downhauls and deck bags.
Hi ya
Yup I should have made much more of maintenance and reliability, thanks for your comment
Of course the sequence isn't usually like this, it's:
Crew, unused to power in large headsails, tries to ease out furler control line without a turn around something for control
Line leaps out of their hands & snarls up at the drum.
With all sail out & flogging skipper shouts for sheet to be hauled in.
Flogging sheet ends up with riding turn on winch.
Instead of turning downwind to stop flogging while a rolling hitch on a spare line can be set up-sail of the winch, it continues, testing the structure of the furling gear and the sail...
Exactly, great while they work but there are lots of ways they can go wrong, and that normally happens when the winds up and the loads are higher... exactly when you dont want to be up front sorting out a mess
Exactly when I don't want to be up there doing sail changes. The problems I described are just caused by lack of care, very much needed when the weather turns nasty..
Well put Ian. Hard weather requires crew to " hank on" solo sailing in hard weather furling from the cockpit is much safer. You know a lot more about racing than I do, catastrophically tried to race a 505 with my brother, great fun but too much time spent swimming, recovery. Sorry to hear about your recent issues with YT, yours is a great channel as they say in Latin " don't let the Bast**** grind you down". Thanks as always for sharing.
Hi Paul
I agree with the safety of a furler in principle and for day sailing they do make a lot of sense. I think if I was sailing around the world however I would still give hanks serious consideration. Its easy to hoist and drop from the cockpit and you only go forward then when your ready, and although going forward to tidy sails isn't ideal its still a lot safer than going forward to sort out the furler when it doesn't work with the increase wind... as can happen! Nothing can really go wrong with hanks but a jammed furler, thats half in, can be a disaster
rather boringly I also agree. furler no good for round the cans racing and foils can be tricky even with full crew. I'd choose furler for short-handed prolonged cruising and for offshore cruising to minimise the risk of work on the foredeck. I have a problem with in-mast and in-boom furling main sails which seem to be rather popular
Neil Reynolds. I wouldn’t touch an in mast furler with a barge pole but in boom furlers are great I have on on my yacht and have never had a problem. Hanks are definitely the way to go for single handed racing around the cans.
Hi Guys
Great to hear from you both and good to know that its a couple more people that think that hanks have there place... so why dont we see them on more boats?
Hi Ian. I think most sailors these days are a bit lazy and can’t be bothered with fine trimming their sails therefore they’d rather just roll a bit away to change down a gear or two.
Yup and if all you do is cruise then they do make perfect sense... but there are plenty of cruiser racers out there that would benefit from something better :-)
I’ve been sailing keel boats in Aus and NZ and have so say that most serious round the cans boats will have hanked on headies or foils. Haven’t come across many racers with furlers
Their more for racing to get the most out of the wind though. Most people cruising won't be that fussed about an odd sail shape when furled. It's a pay off of an easier life. Too be honest if its that windy most will be behind the bar lol
Hi Harley
Yup I agree, and as a said if all you do is cruise then it is the perfect solution, even given it faults. But there are plenty of cruiser racers out there that would benefit from hanks but just get fitted with the furler or foil with no thought given to the type of sailing it will really do.
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily Maybe space as well? With hanks you need 2 or 3 sails to choose from and that is a lot of sail bags to fit in a small boat. I must admit I have never had a cruising boat with hanks so can't compare. I don't think it would bother me too much though as don't mind going forward as mainsail is hoisted at mast and occasionally fly a free flying lightweight which would be ideal with hanks to stop any chance of it going in the sea. I suppose modern boats are all set up to control without going forward at all, even mainsails reefing with no hooks.
Space does seem to be the most often quoted reason however once you accept that a sail that is reefed on a roller reefing system is no good, then it doesn't matter what system you have you need more sails. And if one sail is good enough then 1 hanked on is as well. We only have two that we routinely use, the No3 lives on teh boat as our goto sail and if it looks as though its going to be light then I take the No1 with me on the day. If we are cruising then speed doesn't matter and we just use the No3 for everything.
Beneteau First 345 or 34.7 they make a decent cruiser / racer.
Hi Fredrick
Yup they are the sort of boat we are looking at, we also like the look of the 36.7, bit bigger but the extra cabin would be useful for storage.
The Sadler Starlight boats make a pretty good racer
Hanked on foresails are the way to go. If you can;t handle a jib, sail a Sabot. Sorry about the ugly setting in which you sail. Looks dreary. Come to King Harbor in Redondo Beach, California. Most days it's sunny, 72 degrees, with 10-knot winds. Perfect.
Hi Jeff
Yup hanks and sailing in California both sound good to us :-) Thanks for watching
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily I love your videos. You're bright, articulate, and knowledgeable. Thanks for taking the time to produce these videos. Could I ask you to explain your deck organizers and jammers? Working from port to starboard, what lines do you have running through jammers to the cockpit. I'm trying to organize my running rigging on a Catalina 28. Cheers.
Hi Jeff.
We have sold that boat now I'm afraid and I'm not sure I can remember what went were. That said, lines were laid out to keep them from crossing and to run as freely as possible rather than a particular order in the cockpit.
We had main, genoa and spinnaker halyards. Two reefing lines, the outhaul and kicker (gnav) plus the pole uphaul all on clutches. With the pole downhaul and both jib cars led to cleats on both sides of the coach roof. Hope this helps
Ah! I remember them well. Hanks for the memories. Yeah I know, terrible joke ha ha.
Hi Tony
ummm terrible :-)
🦁⛵
:-)
never used a roller?
Oh by the way couldn't comment on that one which you have already mentioned .
Hi ya
yup comments seem to be working ok on new films, its just the 200+ old ones that arnt working yet. Hopefully TH-cam will do something about it soon
Furling mains are even worse yet so many go ocean sailing with them!
Hi Karl
I agree but that's a rabbit hole I'm not going down just yet
Watch the video on TH-cam call "Sailing from Galveston Tx to Gulfport Ms". At the 6 minute mark they are in the middle of the Gulf and their furler jammed up. Stuff like that simply does not happen with hanks.
Hi Damage Inc. Absolutely, great while they work but the potential for big problems when they don't is huge.
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily Yeah that about sums it up.
@@TOMVUTHEPIMP They got away with it as the weather was fairly benign but if they were reefing the jib because a storm was rolling in then sorting out that problem in big seas with flogging sail gets a whole lot harder to deal with
Hanks a lot!
:-)
It's so very difficult to run up to the bow with a GnT in hand to do something with things.
Much easier to pull on a line from the comfort of the settee..
Who needs performance at the cost of a palaver ?
If I wanted proper sailing I'd have been born in the 1800s, mate..
Hi ya
That is the difference between cruising and racing... racers drink beer which comes in handy cans that are fine for working on the fore-deck with :-)
(slaps forehead )
I knew there was a trick somewhere ..
On your latest videos you say to leave a comment , but comments are turned off.
Hi Peter. I know, sorry, it is extremely frustrating but the comments being turned off on the films is out of our control. To get around this we create a section on our community tab each week were people can contribute or otherwise leave a comment about each film. Nice to hear from you, thanks for watching
Bruv, where do I get a hat like urs?
:-)
Hi
Hannah bought it for me about 15 years ago but I'm afraid I cant remember the make. Its real leather, and made in Australia, so I imagine Google could help :-)
@@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily you'd think so, wouldn't you?😂
I think I'll just make my own hat. Another excuse to finally buy and learn how to use a sewing machine.
Your hat looks great, though. Doesn't deform even in 20kts wind?
Comments are back!
Hi Philip
They seem to be on new films, the 200+ old films arent working yet though :-(
The Feeling 39
Goes anywhere but not exactly a racer
the advantages of the Feelings for us would be a lifting keel, which as we sail on the east coast of England with all the shallow water and mud is very appealing. But from the racing point of view they just wouldn't quite cut it. I'm sure we would find something when the time comes however, but if we dont sell sea Horse, well then it doesn't matter because she is great at what she does.
In regards to everyone saying rollers are safer because they have to go forward, I have to disagree.
First of all, I see weekly on TH-cam people without jack lines and harnesses, so I'm guessing if you are afraid to go up on the fore deck in a blow, you are very likely one of these uneducated 'sailors', which is completely unacceptable in this age: before the loss of Guo Chuan, the culture was... split (not really: everyone acknowledged they should be clipped in, but what they said and what they did in private were two different things), but since his loss this behaviour has not been tolerated, and since the loss of John Fisher, sailors are expected to clip in even in the cockpit: there's just no excuse!
Now, the furlers I have experience with have been nothing but trouble; I've personally had jambs and furling line over runs (never had the bearings fall out oddly), and I'm glad that you folks haven't, but what happens if you experience one of the worse failure modes in a wind (yes I understand that there are better and worse furlers out there, and I'm sure my experience is with the latter, but everything mechanical can fail)? Then you're up on the bow anyways, but instead of performing a normal task on a small sail in a practiced way on a jack line, there's likely no jack line because you are used to all lines led aft; if there is, where did you bury your harness; are you ready to clip on and deal with a fully unrolled 140% in a screaming wind?
With hanks, it's zero failure. A powered sail becomes overloaded well before it becomes unmanageable unpowered on the foredeck. Thus it was safely stored and put below decks, and a smaller more manageable sail raised long before it becomes a crisis. Worst failure I can imagine is the clew blowing out and both sheets coming off, but since it's a small jib, and since you're already wearing you harness and it's already clipped on, you grab your small sail bag, check the tether, blow the halyard, go up front, secure the bag to a stanchions, pull down the sail, roll the sail up, grab the bag and put it over the sail, and release your hanks. And only slightly more difficult than the other thousand times you've done it.
Safe doesn't mean safe when it's working, safe means that when it fails, it fails in a safe manner, and seeing what I've seen with furlers I just can't agree on this one.
🍻
Hi Wilfred
Good argument well made.
Thanks for contributing to the conversation.
Simple, if you want to race, do not reef. Put it all up and job done. Luff a tadge during gusts and to keep her upright.
Hi ya
:-) nice idea, perhaps I should add race seriously. We can hold our No 3 right up to around 30 knots with reefs in the main etc but with the no 1 its great at say 10 knots, at 15 its getting hard really hard work and by 20 we would be stopped or flogging sails badly.