Fear and Madness | 5e Dungeons & Dragons | Web DM
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
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Keep it together, y'all because this week we're talking about FEAR, MADNESS and other negative mental conditions in 5e Dungeons and Dragons. But using these spells and conditions so they're fun, tense, and make fr good roleplaying can be tricky! Here's how we do it.
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Dresden Files rocks! Skin Game written and in the publishing steps!
Thomas H Peace Talks?
@@Phyco8 Yeah... I realized my mistake too late to fix it. I feel I lost a nerd card there
can you make a druid build where the druid wildshapes into a steed?
Episode idea: How to incorporate player secrets and inter-party drama without breaking the party up
Good one!
I think my absolute favorite reference to when it comes to imagination filling in the blanks is JAWS. For a good 45-55 minutes we are afraid of a camera underwater playing eerie music. Good video as always dudes!
Really empathetic episode, I appreciate the conversation about respecting mental health and your players feelings about it. It's really nice to hear casual destigmatization like that.
Thank you! It was important to us to talk about the potential issues that can come with these subjects. The end goal is fun, and that means not ruining someone else's so you can have yours.
One of my favorite boss battles i ever ran:
-Have a grid map but tell players there is a limited 15' visibility (sandstorm, hurricane, etc.), then take the boss figurine off the map when no one can see it, and watch the players go into a full-on panic.
- Chain devil is great for this because of illusions for fear and 4 telepathic chains that move independently. Use illusions to explore backstories. use the chains to grapple and tank.
- make the map challenge vertical. (Zigarot, spire, etc.) loose ledge traps, acrobatic jumps, and grapple chains in place.
- Not knowing which direction to run when afraid, all they could do is seize up.
in my battle, the wizard had to stand at the top of a spire and chant a ritual for 10 successful INT checks while trying not to choke in the sandstorm (CON save), AND, fighting off several quasits nipping at her heels. a party of savage Azer were waiting on the sidelines out of view, hooting and cheering. Since the chain devil was immune to fire, the Azer could never plunder the spire while the devil defended it. They cheered on the heroes to kill the devil so that they could hunt next. while Azer have a low CR, the party didn't know this and they look terrifying. The party eventually figured out they would have to split up to buy the wizard time to complete the ritual. while they hunted for the devil in the storm, they didn't know if/when the azer would attack. I've never seen my table more terrified to get separated when I say "you can't see the ground from here. the chain pulls your tank off the ledge and he disappears into the storm below you. what do you do?" lol
My favorite fear was self imposed. I decided at the start of the campaign that the first time I dropped to zero I would develop a fear to the creature that dropped me. Well, when my Tabaxi fighter/rogue fell to a dire rat, in a dungeon filled with rats, hilarity ensued.
You boys went full Full Hunter S. Thompson. Did my heart good to see it.
Ranger D. Twentyson
No D&D rules for Loathing?
Episode suggestion: psychedelics in D&D
Good suggestion!!
Myconoid spores are a prized commodity amongst druids...
The mushrooms make the barbarian rage
@@theapexsurvivor9538 Sure you can get the spores and have a decent trip, but have you tried joining one of their meldings? Shit's wack, yo!
for players or characters? :P
12:34 Or the Wizard who sometimes goes catatonic whenever he kills someone with fire because he's wracked with guilt over the fact that he was brainwashed into burning his family alive.......
Hmmmm.....sounds familiar... 😉
I have ran a Predator one-shot, and no one at the table realized it until the predator actually showed up. Next time I run it, it will be a gnome druid just screwing with the party.
Hahahaha awesome
I had one of my DMs use the madness table during one of our games. After reaching lvl19 my warforged fighter samurai watched almost every player in the party die to the big bad. My character finally snapped and went mad preceding to smash the villain into the ground. I had developed permanent madness where nothing was more important to me than my goals, my goals were to collect magic items for reproduction and to create a warforged. I then started to collect all of my dead party members magic items and start to walk out of where we were, while our rogue hid in the dark away from me. I like to think that he rules over a modron city having them collect magic items for him and trying to create a warforged population.
You know this is a perfect Lord of Blades storyline too.
I'll be honest. I go for the 80's B-movie type of fear in my players. It's mostly normal D&D, but at specific moments like new monsters or big bads, I use evocative language to describe what the new, unknown horror looks like *from their character's perspective.*
It works REALLY WELL. They get this little jolt of a visceral response that makes them cautious in that one moment, but after 2-3 rounds of combat it starts to go away. It's not crippling to the table, and future encounters with that monster rarely has the same effect. Then the players and their PC's overcome that terror and become better for it. Thus far, it's been a very satisfying experience on both sides of the screen.
The presence of madness is particularly interesting when it comes to Wizards, and not just because they've been exposed to Things Man Was Not Meant To Know. It's also just a possible byproduct of the wizarding lifestyle.
In order to be a wizard, you have to spend years studying texts, texts filled with esoteric knowledge. Learning the mathematics of magic - the arcane equations that tell you exactly the angles of a symbols in a pentagram or the exact number of times to repeat a chant during a ritual - requires mind-bending mental work. To learn wizardry requires utter dedication to the Art, especially because existing wizards would actively work to put up as many barriers to learning magic as possible. Both for the selfish reason of wanting to keep knowledge to themselves, and for the pragmatic reason of keeping the powers of reality warping out of the hands of the lazy, the stupid, the uncommitted, the impatient, and the insane.
Once you commit to the path of wizardry, you spend countless hours reading and practicing words and gestures of power. Staying up all hours of the night, because there's never enough hours in the day and there's SO MUCH yet to study. You perform gestures until your fingers are stiff, and you recite the words until your voice is hoarse, because a single error could spell disaster. Magic, in its natural form, is wild and unpredictable and highly symbolic; isolating the parts of magic that can be controlled, that can be used consistently, is an enormous task, fraught with peril. You must try to eliminate as many variables as possible, which can mean adopting any number of behavior patterns and quirks that, to the laymen, seem eccentric, but to the wizard are of critical importance (whether they really are or not).
This doesn't even cover what long absences from wider society can do to a wizard (there's no time to have a social life, when there's yet more magic to study). Humans are social creatures (and this can be assumed to be true also of most humanoid races), they are not meant to be alone for so long. It _does things_ to them. At the very least, it causes them to forget social niceties, and to develop habits that are, to put it mildly, strange and idiosyncratic.
Is it any wonder, then, that a wizard who comes out the other side can act a little mad?
I would Highly recommend reading the Dresden Files I try to do it at least once a year in october
Heck yes. Love love love the series
@@WebDM Peace Talks soon Jim finished writing it in july its at the editors now.
@@Ghastly_Grinner Wait, really?! Holy shit!
@@derekburge5294 yes sir! Check his Twitter
@@Ghastly_Grinner Fascinating! Thank you!
Darkest Dungeon has a brilliant stress to madness counter. Thinking of using it in future campaigns.
Intro not mumbly enough, but otherwise wonderful. Not enough gonzo in D&D.
Saying this here because it is Web DM's most recent video. Your content has inspired me as a player and now a first-time DM and enriched the experience of my personal gaming group immensely. I'll never be able to repay you for the part you've played in what is one of my favorite parts of my life but I've got nothing but love for you guys. Please keep up the videos, my gaming group may never know how important Wednesdays are for our shared experiences.
We were somewhere near Baulder’s Gate, on the edge of the Sword Coast, when the madness began to take hold.
Fear in the new 5th edition Vampire TM is tied into the new Bestial Failure and Critical systems I believe. You go about trying to accomplish something like render a mortal unconscious so you don't have to kill them, and you roll a bestial critical and all of a sudden that love tap turns into, I just killed someone on accident. The hungrier you get the more likely you are to roll bestial failures and criticals. Humanity is also still there in 5th as well. I think the fear in Vtm also stems from that fear of self, a what have I become kind of horror.
Even though I have no interest in 5e nowadays I still love this show. Btw that fear and loathing intro was solid 5/5
Fear. An interesting topic. In my experience, the best way to generate player fear is to watch their reactions to certain descriptions, and then build the right moment to introduce it. The right background music can help too, especially when it's unusual or off-putting in nature.
Fear is best used sparingly, because players will become desensitized to it. Less is more.
But when you have a moment where the correct stimuli us there (body horror, loss of agency, gruesome death, etc.), hit that cherry red button hard. Keep the tension high for a short time, and then let the players back off. After that, you need only hint at the same sort of event occurring and then they'll do the rest of the work.
Often times, Jim, you are quite correct: Nothing is scarier than when lives in the imaginations of the players. It may be something rather ordinary that's the source of their fear, but they'll come up with a whole raft of possible horrors that may be the source.
Great topic.
When your character has seen too many Fear and Madness: "Just an average Monday."
Fear and Madness of a Beholder: *Intense Reality Warping*
I love the fear and loathing intro
Have I mentioned how much I love your videos? Straight up binge them all the time, even ones I have seen before, if I need a refresher for some ideas. Thanks again for all your hard work and contributions.
Thank you so much!!
@@WebDM no, thank you sirs. :)
will never get tired of you guys mentioning DF. Two new books this year, i wonder how much theyll give you guys to talk about, on the show and off.
One of the coolest ideas regarding madness I've ever heard goes as follows:
After a PC has survived a particularly harrowing event, take the player aside and inform them that due to exposure to dark supernatural forces (or whatever), their character has acquired a new power. They can sense the true motives of those they encounter (or identify enemy agents or whatever). They just need to tell you they want to use this power, you'll make the die roll for them behind the screen and, should they succeed, you'll tell them what's _really_ going on.
Congratulations. You've just given a PC paranoid schizophrenia.
Very clever!
Just be sure that if you're not playing an outright horror game that you tell the player sometime shortly thereafter that their character is actually crazy. Depending on the person it could go sour if they find out and feel led on or lied to.
@@AGrumpyPanda Definitely agree that it's not appropriate for just any old campaign. I would say though that any sanity mechanic will, by it's nature, affect player agency. So if your players are cool with conventional mechanics for mental illness ...
At any rate, the idea comes from here:
theangrygm.com/driving-your-players-crazy/
I enjoy frightening my players, not full on fear. My main way for doing this is music and lighting.
The D20 Speakeasy same here. Although you have to strike a balance. Ran Death House as a one shot and my 8 year old was worrying about what happened to the baby for a week.
I run Ravenloft a lot and one of the ways I manage risk aversion is by explaining that all the evil beings want the PCs to suffer not die. So don't expect to be immediately attacked in most cases because the evil want's to savor their fear. When and if there is a fight the evil prefers the players get away so it can inflict hopelessness and despair on them. This generally lets them feel free to move around and while preserving the tension.
The only thing I fear in DnD is the Rust Monster.
#DawnbladesDontRust
Corpse collector is my homebrew vampire PCs biggest fear, aside from paladins.
Love that you guys are giving the Dresden files books love in your Audible ad. James Marsters does such a good job narrating those novels
Absolutely!
Fear and loathing in the forgotten realms
This had the best version so far of the product placement/advertisement. Much more "real" and unscripted which is what makes your show great and sets it apart. Get that money on the placement, honestly it's fun to see an ad that I'm actually interested in. Fantastic show guys.
The gibbering mouther scream can cause players to attack randomly upon a failed wisdom save
I play a bloodrager who only rages when a friend is hurt. She will still fight, but can't get mad unless someone hurts Zaka's friend. It's pathfinder, so then she grows large and pounds that person into the ground! NEVER HURT ZAKA'S FRIENDS!
Nice! I can see this being role played in D&D 5E as a barbarian. It would have to go along with the bonds, flaws and ideals mechanic but could be really fun!
When Vampire gets mentioned😁😁😁😁
I was sitting down looking for a new video to watch and I get this notification
Perfect timing.
Enjoy!
Your intros are stepping it up, nice job!
So happy you guys got Audible as a sponsor!
Thank you! We're stoked to rep them too!
I came up with something that worked pretty well. As my players were traveling between locations, I set up a set of five candles and told them that they were being hunted by something. Whenever they chose to rest, one candle went out. I had set up a bunch of encounters in the area that could also extinguish candles if they approached them without thinking. But not everything was detrimental, sometimes they were allowed to reignite one for covering their tracks or finding the correct path.
By the end they still had three candles left, but there was an almost palpable feeling of dread over the entire table. Would recommend trying out at your own table, though probably best done sparingly.
Nice timing, I was just thumbing through Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos for 5e.
Fear and loathing in Las Vegas. Great choice for an opening guys. I love playing mad characters. So much fun!
Gotta say, that intro was on point.
Absolutely love this show
Thanks so much!!
I worked in a haunted house for years and scaring people is an art.
eyebite is a great spell for a Hag Coven as its thematically powerful and memorable, but is actually kind of a weak enough use of a 6th level spell slot that it can be used against a 5/6th level party which i think it is a good level to fight a hag coven at.
Thanx for this! I'm just about to start a 5E campaign that leans heavily on Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos book.
Hag coven with sea hag + eyebite is pretty devastating
This is why i love you guys
We can't stop here, this is Ettercap country! (because those things are creepy)
Intro great as always! XD
I have an idea for a show topic. Probably a shorter video but I can see it being strung out to be a longer one depending on how deep you get.
Names! Naming your fantasy places, naming your people your NPCs, organizations. A name says a lot about each of those things and it helps ti make a good one.
That's an interesting suggestion!!! Thanks!
Played a fighter with severe PTSD that resulted in several phobias including confined dark spaces, especially underground or surrounded by rock. The entire 1st arc of the campaign was almost completely underground exploring sewers and caves. This led to several instances of me RPing him refusing to enter or becoming paralyzed with fear. At one point he spent most of session in a catatonic state being passively led around by the other party members. The DM and I had several long conversations about this, including me forewarning him before the PC went catatonic and how that would work using both RPing of a 'flaw' and using different mechanics as well.
I use this example often in discussions about ttrpgs as safe spaces to explore personal fears, etc.
With good communication and use of safety tools overcoming fears can make for wonderful story arcs with the PC as a stand in.
One of your better videos, you guys; and very timely! Thank you. Have a happy Halloween, a blessed Samhain, and a wonderful All Souls'. :)
22:24
Fear leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
Hate leads to suffering
I'll never look at those Dragon Minis the same way again.
Another amazing video. Thank you for the amazing content gentlemen. 😊
Thank you!!
Be a Warforged Juggernaut. Become immune to fear, intimidation, mind control, psychic attacks, and can actually get the chance to resist being moved by telekinesis.
**Laughs in Artificial Construct**
Combine a Warforged Juggernaut with Barbarian and Frenzied Berserker and you have an unstoppable killing machine that feels no exhaustion, needs no air to breathe, and has no no need for sustenance with the exception of an unquenchable blood lust.
It's also fun watching the party crap bricks as the final enemies go down and your character can't get out of Deathless Frenzy lol.
>I am a robot
>I have no emotions
>yet when I get angry I take less damage
Man, WoTC allowing any race to be any class is honestly stupid. It's too much. Way too much.
@@Goose_BW To say Warforged are completely emotionless is a bit far, in fact they're considering mechanical living beings with construct traits. They're just less in touch with their emotions than other living beings, but that doesn't stop them from having emotions and feelings.
I think a good example is The Lord of Blades from 3.5E Ebberon. LoB absolutely HATES anything organic, especially humans, and fights for Warforged Supremacy. He's essentially a Warforged Juggernaut / Artificer multiclass if I remember correctly.
Post Edit: For what it's worth, I absolutely hate 5e mechanics. The idea you take half damage because you're an angry boy makes no damn sense, along with classes having god damn MMORPG mechanics like taunting and forcing enemies to attack you is absolutely dumb. 3.5E was the best as far as mechanics go.
I don't mind doing things against my best intrest do to rp but that's how I have fun in my games
Probably my favorite intro ever
This show so good!
For some awesome ideas about magic and madness, I'd recommend Prospero burns from the horus heresy. The mages of the thousand sons describe magical predators hungry for the souls of powerful mages. I would love it for a high level wizard to have justified agoraphobia, because the protective runes in their tower are the only things keeping out hungry otherworldly forces seeking to devour their powerful soul.
I love Cause fear. Its a super useful spell.
This opening has convinced me to put a fear and loathing side quest in my game
I play a swarm keeper ranger (granny Gertrude) and her deal is anytime she sees children in danger/hurt she sees her grandkids in flames.. kinda like Caleb from critical role ... I had to see if their way to show trama was the best for her. I had to have a reason for an old lady to be adventuring
I'm surprised you guys didn't touch on the madness mechanic from Out of the Abyss. Great episode anyway! Loved the conversation on fear.
They did.
Holy shit, that was an amazing video.
D20 Cthulhu uses sanity and mythos to give a mechanism for tracking fear and madness. you must get the players on board with it, but it gives a stat for the players to keep track and to role play.
Jim! I gotta say man you're looking really well!
Pausing this during the discussion of violence in D&D to wonder if you've seen the new Star Trek show Picard? There's a wonderful sword fighter named Elnor who has a phrase he uses before battle "Please friends, choose to live." It feels very D&D to me.
Yoooo talk about eating the Dresden files I went through every book in 6 months. All audible lol I can listen to them at work
Yes! I would LOVE to have a game in which we play our flaws regardless of whether or not they are detrimental to the character.
21:42 Except when you've planted 4 Weeping Angels in the nearby vicinity. Then what's out there is probably worse than whatever the party is thinking of. I know this because I have done it and when the party realised what they were up against the players were terrified. It was great.
With the fear n loathing outfits, I thought you guys would cover fantasy drugs. That can be a contributing part of fear and madness. New episode idea??
Hey Pruitt stole my halloween costume!
The D&Dads are back♥️
Dark Heresy has some additions to fear and madness though phobias or though encounters with the demonic, two examples that come to mind is one of my player's character is afraid of insects due to the hive city he was based hat having horrific insects that butchered his old squad and another example was when I was a player and encountered a Deamon that was summoned by a cultist in the middle of a firefight between chaos cultists, a Genestealer cult and me and my friend.
Top intros of all time
Great episode. I especially liked Jim's comment on messing with the information flow. Maybe fear would impose disadvantage on perception and insight checks. Did I really hear something moving down that tunnel, or is it the noises in my head? Is the mayor really hiding something from me, or is that my paranoia? Might also deny players taking a short rest in areas with fear, as they're just too nervous.
Lotta Dessden files love, but honestly, I love his Codex Alara series more. That is some seriously good stuff.
I had a wizard with future sight madness. He saw things that at that time was multiple events that happened at that point so it might me “look at that bunny” and it hasn’t been there yet to weird things like “metal dragons dropping exploding eggs!!!”
Oh yeah one time he started talking about how many vegetables were around. Where they were standing was a future site for a grocery store.
i need to find a channel or something like Web DM where they talk about Cyberpunk, i've been obsessed with that TTRPG as of late
Have you seen Seth Skorkowsky? He doesn't focus on Cyberpunk or any other game exclusively, but he has a playlist on Cyberpunk 2020 and he just reviewed the Cyberpunk Red jumpstart kit, so there will probably be more videos on it coming out in the near future.
I got to break out the Madness tables in the DMG last night when my players attempted to nullify a Far Realm summoning circle. One was only paralyzed for 10 minutes (he rolled very well) but the other has amnesia for 100 hours, and he's their Arcanist. So they can't tap into his arcane knowledge for 100 hours.
Audible! Glad I now know about it!
lol Never heard of it. ;)
That's fucking nuts I was just looking into Madness for my game Im planning on running a Undead a invasion and over run of a duchy game with the PCs getting stuck in an over run city having to help survivors fortifying strong points and eventually dealing with the cause of the undead and thought that adding madness would be a fun way to represent the horrors of an undead filled city
Tangentially related; one of tbr first characters I played was a Gnome Bard who was just Raul Duke but a Forest Gnome. He ended up getting thrown in jail for bootlegging wine and paid off his bail by writing a book about how he ended up in jail.
Great video guys. 👍 Given your sensitivity to this and many other issues, I'd be very interested in your take on one specific issue: roleplaying with mixed ability groups.
That's not to say with inexperienced players, but rather with players who have something interfering with their ability to play the way we're used to. Like, a psychological condition, a language barrier etc. The goal of the session is not to be lesson or to provide therapy, it's just to have fun playing a game. However, barriers like these can put one player at a big disadvantage.
I'm currently DMing a group of mixed language speakers, where most players have more than good enough English to play, but one player is frequently lost because he didn't understand what we've been talking about. This doesn't usually affect the rest of the group too badly, but I'm sure you can imagine it does affect his play experience.
I can imagine a lot of similar barriers that could produce an alienating affect for other players too. I'd be very much interested in your thoughts on this.
Keep up the good work, guys. 👍
Make sure no ones feee fees are hurt.
The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge, and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.
The Alien RPG has some great fear mechanics, especially regarding contagious fear, doesn't come out till Dec10 though
In the original Vampire: The Masquerade the horror is the personal horror of what on has to do to live forever and not losing one's soul to the beast within. Additionally, the degradation of the character's soul can be seen by the other characters both pc's and npc's once it gets to a point.
Pandemonium and Limbo:
"I'm making you kaka for coco puffs"
I think a good inspiration for Fear and Madness in D&D is Darkest Dungeon, even go so far as using the narrator soundboard for effects :)
I can't speak to old mechanics, but in the Dragonlance novels I read recently at least the dragonfear is automatic.
We're most assuredly in bat country now folks.
Bat SHIT country... maybe? ;o)
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
I had a player who's character accidentally grabbed the attention of Ghaunadaur, and just him watching over her started giving her an unending hunger. It started with rolls to see if she woke up in the middle of the night with the munchies. Then as the campaign went on she went from wanting just food, to meat, then to raw meat, and then she started seeing slain monstrous enemies as food. I made her roll to see if she could resit just eating the innards of a monster. Then she saw slain humanoid enemies as food.
She didn't admit to the problem until one night she dreamed of consuming massive quantities of viscera in front of the feet of a robed figure. The other players woke up to see her with a deer that she had ripped open bare handed in her sleep. She was eating its entrails.
That's when everyone went hmmm lets get this checked out.
Gurps 3rd edition had a fear mechanic I used it quite a bit the best time was, a pc opened sarcophagus when he did the mummy or zombie whatever it was grabbed the pc. He rolled a crit fail not to be scared. after checking the chart he ends up aging 20! Years and his hair turns all white
i have played 7 characters with Alektorophobia and everytime it was epic
XCom reference! Hell yes!
Madness is so fun.