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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ธ.ค. 2022
- #oldiron #diesejl
Today on the channel we take a look at a diesel Ford 861 Powermaster that we are the proud new owners of! Not knowing the history, what will we find? Will it start?
Miss the previous videos in the series? Check them out here - • Diesel Ford 861 Powerm...
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Check your valves out. It looked like some of the rockers were not moving! Push rods or cam??
yes i noticed it too at min 24:00 to 24:20
I saw that too
Yes two in the middle wasn’t moving
That loader frame would look great back in the woods.
Before refitting the valve rocker shaft you should have checked the push rods were seated. I hope you have nit damaged the tappets.
Can't believe that thing ran!
This machine doesn't have glow plugs. It's basically a heat exchanger. It heats up the air inside that box. It's old school like 5.9 Cummins.
Also check the lifters I saw at least two maybe three valves that were not moving
If the rods have any play whatsoever, I mean this as a mechanic for at least twice the years you have lived, I am 73, did mechanics from the time I was too young to argue with my dad so have a feeling, that with all my heart, that you will trust me on some of this build. I can't see but what your moving around in that oil pan is metallic. That would be the material you and I for that matter, is your bearings. This engine requires being pulled out completely. Take off the head and all associated pieces and parts to this engine that is holding the crankshaft inside the block. I am not going to tell you that rings are a absolute necessity, but when doing something like this...... its going to stop a lot of diesel bypassing the rings and washing out the lubricity of your oil. Its normal for some to go by as its the nature of the beast, yet you know that something as cheap as a ring for four cylinders will not stop you from making a house payment, the person you sell to will not want a engine with these kind of issues or he/she is unaware of how much it does count to do the best you can. I seen you jiggle that rod on the shaft so figure on the crankshaft being beyond rebuilding. Now there are a good many options here as to fixing this tractor. One is to rebuild this engine here. Another is to replace with the same engine from another tractor. Its doubtful, but stranger things happen so maybe ford still stocks these engines. That is one that I would not go into their store with hopes for, yet they may know of a source of places that handle this type of engine. Unless stuck on keeping it stock and all the same pieces and parts... a alternative engine with a adapter to match it to this transmission might even be cheaper to buy. Its a very low horsepower engine to start with, I don't see it being a fifty horse engine, more like thirty or close as in brand new, a forty horse. Depending just what your going to use it for,, I really would consider say a subaru engine, I think they make diesels for tractors. I hate to see it go to gasoline, but if you did the exact replacement in gas, maybe those prices would keep you in the winning line and not turn this machine into just a parts machine. It is a nice looking tractor so if you were to part it out, do it smart or someone is going to leave you with a disabled machine that is too far to fix later and leave you with a machine that your not going to get your full investment back on it. Also think on how hard its going to be to find another crankshaft for this engine....... I'll be really surprised if this crank can be saved. Some builders who are less than reputable, will say sure.... "We can weld that shaft and have it like new"!! and then the hole in the side of the block will say different. Granted that its a slow turning engine, thats a very good thing and just might be something fixable. What ever thing that you are leaning on doing, take your time
Guy I worked with always kept a magnet on the tool box . After a oil change he swished it around in the oil , see if there was any filings in there . I asked him about lead and he told me that if there was any that it was to heavy to flow out , unless there was so much that you could see other signs of damage. I do agree that any visable rod play is a concern.
I think he should keep that engine if possible . Most others that he gets will not be industrial . Not sure about the Subaru . He should be able to source parts . I run tractors made way back from forties and can always get what I need
Should do a complete rebuild if it needs much , not a patch job . That little tractor will do him for a long time . I have friends still using them daily for utilities on farms
Have a nice day and keep passing on your knowledge. There are not many of the old school repairmen left
Love Your TH-cam Blog, I Had a 4000 ford Discel the Starter tore up 3 teet and would non't let turn over.
I Have a 871 GoldenDemenstator now will run would make a good youtube rebuilt I am the 3rd owner.
I had a jubilee 53 ..such nice tractors
My father knew a farmer that had an tractor oil pan full of what could only be described as machine shop bench clean off debris in the bottom. Perhaps you got an engine that skipped some factory cleanout stages. Or you have some major problems. While rebuilding my father's 1955 Ferguson 35 I found the oil pressure line had rotted off while sitting and puddled the garage floor with oil while I was checking the gauge pressure readout failing to read pressure. Whatever you were told for the length of time a tractor (or car) has been sitting, my rule is to double that figure and it's closer to actual. When you get the engine figured out, check the trans oil, often there are a few gallons of water in there. Replace any gear shifter and 3-point boot seals to stop that problem. Now, if your engine is beyond repairable ... look up the youtube project tractors that replaced factory engines with Harbor Freight Predator engines successfully. One guy did an Allis Chalmers B swapping the 20hp factory AC stuck motor for the smaller 6hp predator motor and took it out brush hogging his farm field and hauling 1500lb round bales. Others have used the 13hp predator in Farmalls.
You Left us hanging! Can not wait for the follow up Videos! Yea, the oil pan debris concerns me, the oil pressure could be as simple as a bad pressure Gage (or switch), but anyways I would be checking the Crank and cam shaft!
Thanks ! I won't waste my time .
There will be more videos on it… soon 😬
That's extremely clean for an "abandoned" tractor. Click bait annoys me.
Grew up on a Ford 861 gas my grandfather bought in 1961. Worked that tractor hard and it's still in the family. With a friend of mine, we bought a non-running 860 in 2010 which had been driven without oil. The owner had a branch go through the filter when he was in the woods and didn't realize what had happened until he got back to the barn. After replacing the filter and oil, he started it and there was no oil pressure, so he parked it, where it sat for 10 years. We bought it for $500 also. When I pulled the base, I found that the bearings were literally melted off the crank. As a friend told me, those cranks had so much metal in them that they were nearly indestructible. Took it to the shop and they polished it to true. Once I rebuilt the engine, I cleaned and painted the entire tractor. Since then, I've been in the transmission, where I found a 3/8" socket some had left there, the hydraulics, which still need some adjusting and the pump rebuilt, and am now installing power steering to save my shoulders. The tractor's been used for plowing, cutting and raking and baling hay, and moving snow, logs. and dirt. As a friend told, a lot of farms were paid for with these smaller Ford tractors. Well worth the time and effort to restore.
Yeah they’re amazing. We still use my grandpas 800 backhoe he built and never in my 30 year life do I remember it being broken. Crazy.
Great video
I had 961 diesel, which is row crop version, of the 861. Overhauled it , it was turning about 60 hp . I could mow hay for 3 or 4 days with before adding 10 gallons of fuel. And it would pull a 13 foot disc
I raked many of acres of hay on a 601 ford. Love these tractors
Big end shot, that's were your oil pressure is going. Engine out mate.
If I were you I would invest in a bore scope.
They are much more affordable than they were in the passed.
And with the injectors out, you can easily investigate the shape of the cylinders.
@17:25. She was talking to you... don't lie Tyler! 😂
I wish 💀🤣🤣
I'd clean those parts in some kerosene & diesel mixed fuel half& half mixture really good. It'll help break down all of that nasty stuff. I'd use A plastic bristle 🖌️ brush for that part.& Rinse them out with the fuel then lightly shake dry them out good inside A bucket of fuel mixture. Place the parts on towels to finish drying out more.
At 21:28 Note that this is not really a "glow plug" engine. The heaters on this engine are intake manifold heaters and not pre-combustion chambers glow plug heaters. There is a world of difference, starting fluid on this engine is not a problem.
Nice tractor
I'm rebuilding a Ford 641 diesel. Great tractors.
Iv got 801 - gasser -power steering and live pto 👌🏻
More than likely piston skirts look up from the bottom after it drains a little !! But yeah those center valves and rocker weren't working to good either maybe bent push rods but yeah good project 👍!! Hey got it running that's half the battle
Maybe, I feel like I’m at war with it right now 🤣
How about unsticking the 2 valves that are stuck??
With the injectors out you should have checked see if you had oil pressure then
Might drop pan and check rod and main brging if I’m keeping it
The oil pump is in the base of the sump on the 600-900 series Ford's? I think their is a screen on the pick-up tube. Could be clogged or the oil sending unit may be bad.
You can see in your Video the Valves on number 3 Cylinder are not opening and Closing. The Tappets have Failed. The Engine locked on the Camshaft. Good luck. Lots of hard work ahead.
Yea I seen that Thanks
I would check the oil pressure gauge and make sure it’s good. If it’s been sitting for a long time I think I’d try priming the oil pump and see what happens before I’d tear it down
i have the same tractor is the tee on the return line that threads int the head a check vale i think im getting fuel into motor thru it had the pump rebuilt already still happens or is there a check valve on return line somewhere
I want to wish you all a merry Xmas and happy new year..
Like that old tractor, keep it running 👍👍👍
You’ve got two valves not moving at all, check cylinder 3 for lifter operation, rocker 5 and 6 are not moving at all and you can hear the miss when cranking it over, 17:26 you’ll see what I’m saying. And again at 19:29 No operation of the valves,
I would pull injections pump and rebuild it plus pop test injector also
there should be like a notch after you move the throttle lever about 2" that is the start position on these tractors with that exact engine and injector pump.. mine is all original 1963 except paint and tires and clutch and it starts the second you touch the starter when throttle lever is in start position never ever had to use glow plugs.
Hopefully she starts good!!
you have a couple of valves that are not moving.
Oil pump is probably stopped up id put a new oil pump on it.
Just wanted to let you know that it would probably be a lot easier to work on the engine if the loader frame wasn’t on the tractor just saying
I’m not sure why the Algorithm waited this Long to Suggest your Channel to Me, I keep up on a Few other Creators here on TH-cam. I don’t do The Book of Faces or Instant Grams Either. The Important Thing is, I’m Here Now to Stay, Lord Willing for Future Notifications and just Possibly some Time to watch the BackLogged Content to get Me in The Know! Catch You on the Next One, Keep It Safe Out There Sir
Welcome aboard!
hey JL give Dave's workshop a yell out
The engine was locked up due to your bearings being in the bottom of the pan. That’s all those pieces of clock springs.
Two ways about it….keep it or sell it.
Either way, the engine has to come out.
First way…keep it:
Pull the engine out, and
Get a crank kit, with new bearings., hone the cylinders and put in new rings. Buy a new oil pump, and really clean out the oil passages.
The engine should produce oil pressure. And run a good long time.
Or
Have a look at the crank…it it REALLY rough? Or just scored a little. If it’s just scored a little, shine it up with Emory cloth, and just put new bearings in it.
Fix all the drivability problems…..and dump it on the next sucker.
She’s getting a full rebuild!
That seemed to be a lot of debris in the oil pan. From the small bits of video it looked like there was either a spun bearing or the bearing was completely gone. Pretty substantial rod knock there. Your intake and exhaust valves for one cylinder wasn’t moving at all. Maybe the push rods wasnt seated fully. Judging by the amount of debris in the pan I’d say your pick up screen is completely blocked which could be causing the lack of oil pressure.
At this point it looks to me this will need to be a complete rebuild which if you got it cheap enough and want to do the work it’ll be a good outcome! Keep your head up and looking forward to the next video!
A complete rebuild it will be!
Was the #3 cylinder rocker moving - it was hard to tell on the video but the others were obviously moving
Looked not moving to me too.
I didn't see movement either
Second Cylinder from the operator's seat I saw 2 valves not operating. if one or both stuck open, may be contributing to the hard-to-start condition, 'specially since it's a diesel. Also looked like a piston ring in the oil pan!😬
Could that have been intake valve not opening???
@@donvoll2580 I don't know if they are the same as my gas 860 but if it is I believe those are both exhaust valves for 2 and 3.
Starter bendix jammed into the ring gear?? Nice 👍 odyssey battery, sweet. They make a decent product next to Braille. I dig your 'temporary' tank LOL ether works you just gotta use it very sparingly or disconnect the glow plugs. Oil pressure gauge doesn't work hopefully or you've got bigger problems. I'd hook up an external gauge that's known good and see if that gauge is bad.
What do you think now, just a bad gauge? 🤣
@@dieseJL
No, not at all. LOL I was commenting before I watched the whole video. It's got some wear on the internals, no doubt about it. Maybe the oil pump is weak, but whatever it may be, I doubt a 'bearing roll' would simply fix it. Ya never know though, maybe the pickup strainer is full of RTV. LMAO. Still probably not a bad machine to pick up to fix or part out. 👍😁
Her look was priceless... after you explained the brakes. How didn't see that one coming 'see if you can stop it" I'm just glad no one was bruised. You must be in Michigan or have roots. No one else wears a Lie`downs sweatshirt. If you are in Michigan... Gov't Whitmer won't like you using Red Diesel for you YT.... I won't tell, promise
Lol right on!
For sure cylinder no 2 no valves are opening or closing g check you push rods are seated correctly
I'd check that oil pump screen out for being clogged up with anything inside of it. Along with cleaning the oil pan really good to. Check the O-ring around the oil pump could be harden up.,or split.,or cracked.,or even busted into. I'd check the oil pump tube it maybe clogged up as well from sludge.& Grime build from burnt motor oil deposits. I'd try running A coat hanger through it gently to see if that's plugged up possibly to. That will not allow motor oil to properly flow inside of the tractor engine.,or circulate through to the oil sending unit gauge also if that is your issues. It's supposed to flow through the engine block. From the oiler tube inside of the oil pump gallery.& Camshaft ⚙️ gear.& Crank journal together when the engine is turning over each revolution by it's timing geared marks.,or indication dots.,or slash markings. Hopefully this information might help you out some with your tractor issues your having possibly.
You don’t like using either but my IH454 does not have flow plugs and it has a place for a either can to mount
Yeah I wonder why that didn’t last long term 🤔
Initial thoughts: why the heck would you even try working on the engine without first removing the loader!?
Try rebuilding the injection pump.and.injectors. they are.probaly weak and is not properly spraying the fuel
With 2 valves not working spread over 2 cylinders no wonders this thing didn't want to start and sounds like a 2 cylinder.. Though the end of the video suggests there's way more issues than just that to come lol looking fordward to this series..
Yeah waiting on parts from the machine shop currently, still haven’t heard whether or not I need a new crank 😬
I think if you would have drug it forwards and backwards in 4th or 5th gear ya'll would not have had to bar the flywheel.
How long did the atf/acetone soak before the engine broke loose? I have a 1964 ford 4000 diesel that is stuck and seeing your video GIVE ME HOPE!!! Thanks for sharing it.
Not too long… if you finished this video and watched the next though you’ll see it had much bigger issues.
I pulled my oil pan and the crankshaft looks good this engine is very clean on the inside but I did see that number one cylinder that is about top dead center the skirt is broken off on the piston. Do you think it would hurt if I started it after I get it free with the piston that way to check my oil pressure and evaluate its condition? Just your honest opinion .
If it were me I would tear the head off so you could get it freed up easier and then probably replace the one piston. If you can keep the lid on and not have to do any work on it where you have to take the crank out then you will be ok. You can even replace bearings with the crank in as long as the crank is ok. If you run it with a bad piston or spin a bearing then you are into a full on rebuild like I am…
@@dieseJL Thanks so much for the advice I pulled the head off and was able to get the engine freed up today.... I will replace the bad piston next and inspect the other 3 pisons and put new rings on them as well and install the new bearings. I convinced that if the engine didn't have the one broken piston i could put a new head gasket and it would run great.
It looks like you have 2 stuck vows It 24:17
Good luck that's a British engine fordson cones to mind , I think it was and they were hand built . Can't get parts for the thing. Nice idea we had the same thought yrs ago.
I thought our neighbour called them red tiger motor, I didn't think they were British! Thanks
Definately not a british engine,the Fordson Major tractor was one of the best starting tractors I worked with in 4o years as a mechanic,didn,t matter how worn they were ,push in the excess fuel button and they would start even in the middle of winter!
@@i.f.colville2497 Good day I am from Ont Canada Back in 70-80's a neighbour had fordson major 7 very cold & stormy, he needed next day so he left it run all night, wonder how much fuel it used. Thanks So they were good starter.
I assume the pieces were magnetic?
You had rockers not moving in the middle cylinders
Quoting my Dad again, He would look and listen to that engine, and say, It's like the Guy who drank his wages on friday night. Wakes up Saturday morning Piston Broke. Let you know his comments when he watches the video. Which he will. Happy CHristmas to you your Family.
Such a great tractor
Good job bro 👍
Check your push rods and cam the middle cylinder ain’t moving
Probably a bad gage put a temporary one on it
Its only running on 3 cylinders
2 stuck valve's
instead of starting fluid use highly flamable spray lube!!!!!!!!!!!
Injectors need rebuilding.
Cylinder number two not running
Il était pas abandonné. Juste pour faire une vidéo.
U shouldn't leave the bucket so it collects water in it b cause it'll rust out
Maybe but it’s made it 70 years so far 🤣
Better get rid that ether
Yea, that does ruin engines. Especially engines with glow plugs
Why would you want to roll the tractor over when it damaged metal work on it are you mean to see if it'll turn over is that what you're talking about turning the tractor motor over
If the tractor was abandoned... who did you pay $500 to?
Esetractorestamuienterito
I think you’re in over your head, trade for a good running Farmall
I’d rather have a non running ford 🤣
@@dieseJL I understand, you love your Ford tractors that’s cool
Cool tractor it could be the gauge or rings keep it real. Yours rat
America is the reason for expensive fuel.
I won't to buy the tractor
Why not tow the tractor in 4th gear with the good tractor...that way you would force the motor to turn over