You make an amazing point my friend. As a gymnast myself I’m seeing a decline as well here in Australia, my school along with many others have cut it. The main reason why I did it was because, well what I think every boy did it for… to backflip. I feel as though our club does a very good job at making it fun and enjoyable. I treasure the free time we get too work on our own stuff (parkour and tricking). But I have a small ounce of hope that it will make a comeback. Honestly though, it is probably a better career choice to branch off into parkour ect. But right now I’m enjoying gymnastics so I will continue to progress and see the new skills and feel and become stronger.
I don’t agree to be honest. To do gymnastics in a healthy way it requires a lot of physical and mental power. A lot of parkour athletes lack the knowledge that a good trainer provides for his gymnasts. A boring training has nothing to do with gymnastics. There are just a lot of trainers doing a shit job letting kids wait in lines to do one vault. I teach kids who prefer the elegance of a beam routine or the perfection of a switch leap as well as kids who like to do big jumps or creative vaults. There are less kids who match the requirements to do competitive gymnastics in a healthy way which is why it is less popular. Less than 1% of gymnasts have contact with the rules and guidelines so you don’t need to worry about the restrictions. If you understand the code of points you will discover all the unique and tactical decisions a gymnast makes to make their routine work. Most of the footage of that triple double is not a triple double.
@@drieslaukens I agree with this, there is a huge community now of gymnasts from all across the world on Instagram who are constantly pushing the boundaries of the sport and inspiring each other, the biggest issue within the sport now is the established institutions (fig, usag, etc) that stifle their athletes creativity and difficulty by making it less acceptable to do difficult skills and express their personalities during their routines, the athletes are trying to push and be more creative as tricking and parkour have been doing however the powers that be are trying to hold the sport back
I took gymnastics for a few weeks when I was around 8 years old, which was barely after I had taught myself how to do a backhandspring. One day I was in the level 1 and level 2 classes, and while our class was passing the springfloor on the way to the rings I decided to do a round off backhandspring just for fun. I thought my coach would think it was cool, but no. She just frowns at me and says "Calen, you're not allowed to do backhandsprings until you reach level 4. Please don't do it again." ... There's a reason I'm a Freerunner now. 🤷♂️😅👍👍 PS: I did backhandsprings everyday outside for a year before that moment so being told that I wasn't allowed to do a skill I was so consistent and comfortable in and had so much fun doing obviously made me feel like I was in an environment of restriction instead of progression.
There is also a reason why many (edited from most) young freerunners get dumb injuries. I'd love to see statistics of it compared to gymnastics with decent trainers. I love Freerunning though. It's just that, gymnastics basics are a must.
@@AfonsoOliveira12 you shouldn’t be many getting dumb injuries while free running, I haven’t heard of parkour people getting injured at much. You shouldn’t be doing stuff that you aren’t confident you can do.
@@AfonsoOliveira12 “the sun doesn’t have to do with the earth being warm” If you lack confidence but you have the ability to do it, you still could end up bailing, which causes the worst of injuries. Also, just not trying something you’re not confident in can be good because if you were to do it you could fail because you misjudged it. When I’m confident in something I know for a fact I can do it, any risk of injury from failure makes it a fat no for me.
As someone who has watched gymnastics her whole life (50 years), and discovered parkour a few years ago, I totally agree with you. The fun factor has to be strongly considered. I love your videos even though I'm a fat, middle-aged American woman who has never and will never actually DO parkour. You explain so much and bring great perspectives to your videos. I always look forward to your uploads. Thanks!
I’m with you @Orange Everything. Probably a bit late for me to leap off… well anything, 😁 but I have two you kids and I’d love to get them into Parkour. They already climb onto and jump off everything. Seems like it might be a good fit! Parkour seems like such a vibrant and welcoming community. Jimmy’s videos are fantastic and I love getting a little snapshot (from my armchair) of this sport as it grows.
Several groups offer Parkour classes aimed at the 50+ age group...never say never! I'm a 42 myself and I do parkour! th-cam.com/video/Uv-CiuftTDA/w-d-xo.html
The clip of simone biles she is just doing a full in and not the triple double. Her triple double is actually scored appropriately, it is her double double beam dismount and double pike vault that were downgraded.
I noticed same thing and started replaying the clip just to check my calculations lol. She just did a 1 twist 2 flip. Triple double has to be 3 twists 2 flips.
I was looking for this comment, because if it didn't exist I wasn't going to be able to stop myself from making it. I'm going to go try to get a life now.
As an American who is a collegiate distance runner, the explanation of Title IX is spot on. Funding goes directly to the popular sports and leaves us with scraps, thus the programs like Cross Country and Gymnastics struggle with retention
I don't see the problem within Title IX. Equal funding is important. But I the problem is the inequality of the funding in between the disciplines (in this case mens). Why does a sport like football that generates money even need funding? There should be al law to equalize the money in between the disciplines as well.
@@matthiasanderl9533 I completely disagree. American football and basketball actually generate profit, so benefits like scholarships to those athletes are important. They need to get the best athletes to get the best program to get the most viewership. If a college has only a certain amount of money to be put into a few sports, they should definitely put it into their most profitable sports.
@@matthiasanderl9533 Imagine an entrepreneur who owns 5 companies. If 2 of the companies are extremely profitable, the entrepreneur should put most of the capital into those 2 cause the others aren’t as possible
@@nicolasashbaugh2239 except schools shouldn’t be a business, university should be a place where young people go to get an education, the schools should focus on giving the students the best experience possible rather than trying to make the most money possible
@@nicolasashbaugh2239 sure that's what is economically best for a university. But at the moment we are talking about law we are talking about what's best for the country. Sure we could say mens football and basketball is our everything and all other sports aren't important (especially womens cause a lot less people watch that). But I think if a state funds sports, it wants to support sports that wouldn't be able to finance itself without that money. Yet with just a fund the uni would support only the lucrative sports in their program. Not because they are evil, but because they have to compete with the other unis which probably do spend this money on football and basketball. So in addition to that fund a state should enforce laws to force the colleges and unis to spend this money also on non profitable sport programms. Title IX actually does that but only in between genders not in between disciplines (especially mens) so it seems not enough (from my non US point of view). Maybe a law needs to be enforced that hinders these two sports from taking nearly all the money.
That point you made about gymnasts seeing freerunners at their gyms and wanting to try parkour instead is SPOT ON. I recently got a job coaching parkour and gymnastics at a hybrid gymnastics/parkour center, and the amount of both girls and boys who beg me to take them to the parkour area during their gymnastics classes is incredible. And they always looks so enthralled by the skills we use in parkour. It’s really quite beautiful to see. And sometimes sad, considering some of their parents seemingly force them into a discipline they’re not really happy with. :/ That being said I have also seen (less often) some parkour athletes that really thrive on having a clear sense of direction and rigidity to their training and find themselves favoring a more gymnastic style sport.
I think a great example of what gymnastics could be was Katelyn Ohashi's floor routine in 2019. She was doing so much unique movement and seemed to just be having fun, it was something that people really never see in the sport. I think it's okay that there are rules against tricking-style movement, it's okay for gymnastics to maintain its distinct style, but there needs to be more room for athletes to just have fun. I think it would make it much more enjoyable for the athletes and would make it infinitely more interesting to watch.
My mom always wanted me to do gymnastics, but then i discovered freerunning and she was very supportive of me doing that instead 10/10 would grow up again
One of the main reasons (at least in canada) is because a lot of the coaches would force their kids to do things that they didn’t want to do or were even downright abusive. My mom, who went on to compete in the olympics in trampoline, hated gymnastics as a kid because they would force her into the splits to “make her more flexible” and other things like that, so she quit and did trampoline instead. There have now been lots of athletes coming out about their previous coaches being abusive.
as a former gymnast, yes. the culture is just insanely abusive, and it's all inflicted on little kids who have a tiny tiny window to compete professionally. my interest switched to extreme sports bc of that- yeah it's still dangerous, but its free choice. nobody is taking children and forcing them to compete in bmx or skateboarding as far as i know
My daughter was a team GB gymnast and was ranked 3rd in Europe before she hung up her leotard Yes that's right I'm that bloody old anyway having lived over a decade around full time gymnastics I totally agree with everything you said in the video these days most of the quality kids sack off gymnastics and join Cirque du Soleil yes the pay is always a bonus but also because it's fun unlike doing the same floutines day after day and losing the will to live .
As somebody who came from a Gymnastics background competing at National level (Youth), I relate to this so much… I got bored of this Sport & the strict rules. Not many Sports kept my interest until I started Parkour. There’s a reason so many Athletes take interest in Pk coming out of other Sports! 🙌🏽 You can actually be an individual & create your own style.
I wanted to do gymnastics for most of my life. It wasn't until I was 12 years old that I had the opportunity to join a gym and try it out. By this point I was already flexible and able to do many of the basics, cartwheels, handstands, roundoffs, etc, because of my background in martial arts. However, once I started gymnastics I was constantly told I was too old to start and was made fun of by others in the class. Cause I wanted to learn and condition, they all wanted to perform. I had no care for the sport of gymnastics I just wanted to learn how to move through a space and manipulate my body. So once parkour had started growing I inevitably found a gym where many people got together to practice parkour. What I found out is that I basically gained nearly all the skills I sought after in gymnastics, but without all the excess bs it was just 'let's learn something fun' and that was all I wanted.
If gymnastics could develop past the way it is right now then it wouldn’t be dying. The rules as you said are very strict and I think if gymnastics wants to survive as a sport it needs to catch up. It’s unfortunate that it’s that way as I love the sport. I’ve started teaching myself gymnastics and there’s a reason for that, I don’t want those rules restricting me. And I was saying whilst watching the BMX that gymnastics should also be marked off of uniqueness just as the BMX is.
I teach parkour at a gymnastics gym, and the owner has pretty much divided the classes between boys and girls. I always have gymnastics girls asking why I can't be their teacher instead, because they see the parkour classes as creative and fun. I've only ever had one student say he prefers gymnastics over parkour, and he's on track to be an Olympian.
I am in a similar boat to you here. While my parkour classes are open to girls as well, I have had plenty of past gymnasts in my classes and even the current ones in my gym are always interested in what I'm doing because it is so outside of their norm. Honestly if your pk classes were co-ed I bet your enrollment would rise, so from a business perspective that just doesnt make sense.
I coach gymnastics at a smaller gym so we don't have parkour. Please encourage him! We need more Men's Gymnasts at that level, especially with how our team has done recently!
It is not actually just the rules suffocating gymnastics, although they are a great part of it, its also the general culture surrounding it. I'm Dutch and I do a tumbling and am starting to take up freerunning for these exact reasons(I'm not that good tho) but the culture behind it is just.... the little girls at my club are drilled like they are in the army and literally brainwashed. The men's team has quite a lot of people who have a slight growth defect due to too much muscle gain too early on in their lives. The tumbling section isn't that strict and they literally look down on us for that. And to add to it, if you just look all the scandals that surround gymnastics, Olga Korboet has literally told the press she was broken bc of this, years after. Its just sad indeed
Great video man. As a gymnast myself I agree on most of the things you said. However the flip Simone does at the end of your video is not a triple double. It’s a full in I think. Also you seem to only focus on floor and ground tricks when talking about gymnastics but don’t forget there a 5 other disciplines in gymnastics. Which some are similar and some are very different.
wish you can also try parkour.. and perhaps its gymnasts like you who can water the rift that some hardcore parkour people are trying to ride on for the sake of opposing the norm
When I was 15 I tried to sign up for a gymnastics class. They told me I was too old to start now and would never be able to learn all the moves to become a gymnast. They only cared about winning competitions and not about teaching kids and teenagers how to flip, move and become better in doing it, just for the fun. After a friend showed me the Yamakasi movie and David Belle videos, we taught ourselves flips on old mattresses and sandpits. Years later I ended up running a Parkour class in the same gym, because the demand for Parkour classes was so high among male teenagers.
I watch all your videos. This is my favorite yet! Discipline is essential to progression but fun is the fuel for innovation. Love the message, yes to free expression with purpose and style.
Gymnastics just got too extreme... When I wanted to start at 8 years, they told me I'm too old... Others who made it earlier had training regiments so abusive at such a young age that they just didn't want to continue...
I am a gymnast, and I have grown a love for the sport, I still respect parkour and I won't mind going out to do some flips in town but I still think men's artistic gymnastics deserves respect for the discipline of perfecting moves to allow for great technique.
Man I absolutely love your content, I just found your channel a little over a week ago. I've watched so many of your videos already. Kind of feel like I'm an expert on parkour now lol, I really appreciate your content. You took something I new very little about (parkour/freerunning) and made it so interesting to me. Now I find my self diving down rabbit holes discovering new things, that's all your fault. You're absolutely one of my new favorite creators. Keep up all the hard work.
Gymnastics doesn't only have strict rules now, but you have to consider it's a much older sport than parkour. People have already done most of the things humanly possible within the rules. I'm curious to see how parkour evolves in 20 years from now. Glad there are people like Jimmy to document it's evolution as it happens.
They've done most of the things humanly possible?? Then why can't gymnasts do 99% of the tricks free-runners and trickers do? Why can't they use a diagonal roll which is safer and more connective than the spine-slamming roll they do? The rigid rule set is designed around allowing judges to score movement objectively. The whole sport is designed around producing Olympic athletes whose skill can be measured in numbers. You can see in the Art of Motion what happens when you don't have a rigid rule set but try to objectively measure any way. The judging is totally arbitrary and pretty much promotes whatever the judges personally "like" at the time. Free-running will never be Olympic for this reason. And that's a good thing in the long-term. Gymnastics show us what happens when you go down that road. You freeze in time and the initial surge in popularity is quickly forgotten. I hope free-running remains "free". Ironically PARKOUR actually is conducive to competitions. Skill is easy to measure in time, like with any other racing sport. Parkour is the one that should become Olympic because it can already be measured objectively, no rigid rule set required.
They may have done the majority of possible moves on the events that exist, but how long has it been since an event has been added or changed? The addition of a new event or category would certainly bring more eyes and athletes to the sport.
Well … part of the reason those tricks were banned from competition in gymnastics was that people we’re literally dying or breaking their necks during competition … but overall I agree. It’s the stifling creativity
This was a really interesting video. Wow. At first I was a bit skeptical when you started dissing gymnastics but ill be honest that your points made sense and were logical. I agree with you.
My middle child is an up and coming gymnast and its pretty sad that in the US there are only ~12 male collegiate programs left, and it is expected to go lower still. There are very few scholarships available now. They have to move on to cheerleading if they want a scholarship. It is a pretty sad end to 12 years of training or so, but hey, Ninja Warrior is always an option.
Gymnasts do fun stuff. The problem is that you just watch competitions, not their training, unlike parkour, where you mostly watch training aka having fun. Parkour competitions get as boring as gymnastics (if not more), at the same time gymnastics have some partially clear criteria for judging.
Yeah but problem is there is barely any training videos since there is this one rule of keeping routine practices a secret and well the athletes just do not post too much. I scoured the internet and I can barely see footage of gymnastics training sessions in the same vein as like Plan Zero. Just competition stuff.
Amazing! And I absolutely think you're right. As a girl, I've done 7 years of gymnastics because I always climbed in streetlights, jumped on everything, climbed in everything... But almost 1 year ago I started freerunning. I'm having a lot more fun now😊
Having rules in a sport is fine, until they start stifling creativity and self expression... In sports such as gymnastics especially. Gymnastics without creativity just becomes a box ticking exercise then. Did they complete this move, did they remember to point their toes etc.
I was a male competitive gymnast for 10 years and I think more the reason it’s decreasing In popularity is because it’s such an extreme sport on the body I couldn’t do it anymore even when I was reaching my peak in physique, I had to quit it was torture to keep up competitively. There’s sm other sports now that are easier, higher paid and have facilities more frequent. Another thing most male and a lot of female gymnasts that I grew up with all moved to tumbling instead of artistic which is another thing to consider. I also think now freerunning is become a more mainstream sport and seemed ‘cool’ compared to ‘gymnastics’ most talented boys/men who could go down the gymnastic route go down the freerunning/parkour route as it’s not so hated on
Another great video! We have only 1 Gym in my city, and they don't have any programm for adults to learn how to flip or anything else, because I think they have the mentality you talk about it, like they doesn't care about the fun part of the sport.
I’m actually one of the athletes that was affected by the rapid cutting of men’s programs. The Illinois-Chicago team was cut after my sophomore year (2019). I do think you make an interesting point here, I’ve loved transitioning from gymnastics to parkour and the creative freedom it’s given me, but I think that’s the thing. Parkour is more of an art and gymnastics is more of a sport. I loved gymnastics because of the pursuit of perfection and learning how to compete in super high pressure situations. I don’t think parkour offers that same appeal. Competing in the NCAA was definitely the highlight of my athletic career just because of that competitive/high pressure atmosphere. However, since more teams are getting cut every year you may very well have me cornered here haha
Hm, What about doing very intense risky jumps in parkour? The way I handle those is the same I handle competition pressure now. Do you know what I mean?
I taught parkour professionally in a gymnastics gym for 4 years, and the amount of times I heard gymnastics coaches and the owner of the gym say That parkour was just a way to trick boys into gymnastics is astounding! I think the difference is parkour seems cool and dangerous where like you said, gymnastics just seems lame. The little boys and even a lot of the girls just wanted to do flips and run up the walls, they didn't want to worry about where their toes were, and landing with a smile. They just wanted to have fun.
You speak my mind! We have some potentially cool sports like diving and gymnastics that are ruined by their strict rules on how to stand walk and move your feet. No room for style.
Interesting video, I think I might be the exception to your claim that people defect to pk/freerunning. I did pk when I was in my early teens but eventually lost my passion for it. I picked up gymnastics when I started university, I've done it for three years and have never found anything so fulfilling. I think discipline is rewarding to a certain extent, but I agree that it's not fun to be strangled by too many rules. I get huge satisfaction out of teaching myself Gymnastics, I find I hold myself to a high standard, without needing a coach to criticize my form. If you're in the UK and like the idea of Gymnastics, have a look for open gyms. I genuinely think it's the best way to experience the sport.
Elena Mukhina. TH-cam search it. That's the reason for the restrictions, the olympics don't want fatalities and tetraplegic young women on their live transmitions. If something is forbidden is because someone got really hurt for trying it, and young athletes will try if it gain points, no matter the risks.
My 9 year old son really wanted to try gymnastics after watching an event on tv. To give context - He is the most enthusiastic and energetic kid that loves everything! We went along to a local club for a few sessions. I can only describe the vibe as a group of grumpy, overweight middle aged women making children stand in lines for long periods of time. On the last session we picked up a flyer for the Parkour group that train in the same gym. He has been going for a year and loves it so much his younger brother and 12 of their school friends now go along to the club. It’s taken by a group of athletic young men who they all look up to and they really enjoy the atmosphere.
I think you overlooked calisthenics part in that topic. Im sure "domesticating" rings to the point of being mainstream alternative to weigh lifting didn't help if someone want to be gymnast to hang in weird position instead of jumping in weird position
As a gymnast I can understand why some people want the freedom to do whatever in there sport but for others such as my self the orderliness of gymnastics makes it appeal to me and others. I think you missed something though and that is a shift in American culture. Feeling pain or fear is normal for gymnastics but with a sport where starting young is crucial many parents don't want to let there kid go through that even though the hurt of worth the gain.
Stifling creativity is the exact same controversy at the heart of skateboarding competitions. But the difference is that skateboarding built a culture first before the competitions became the standard. Anyone who skates at competitions, are still compelled to do video parts. The creativity that comes from video parts keep judging in competition in check. If a trick becomes popular in video parts, expect to see it being graded fairly at a competition. Then there are best trick awards in tournaments etc. Even then, competitions can still be stifling. I remember watching Andy Anderson mixing freestyle and street tricks at Tampa Pro Ams and the judges had no idea how to score him. I thought he was entertaining but the judges didn't think entertaining and innovation was important. Now with skateboarding being the Olympics, I think it's a good avenue for skaters to make money. But I hope the chase for perfection, debates on how to judge a street part, won't stifle skateboarding.
Any sport or creative endeavor starts dying when it puts forward competition for an award in front of the fun. You may see similar process with martial arts with strict rules, like taekwondo etc
As someone who did parkour and a small bit of gymnastics I feel like gymnastics help getting down learning body control and form And then parkour is the creative and freedom side of things Like..both are equally important..I mean you can learn good form and body control in parkour but I feel like gymnastics may help push more on getting form and body control right because of as you said them being strict with rules and stuff
In ballet, you always start your en croix on the right side. We've known for about 450 years that this is a bad idea, creating imbalances, but if you want to "play the notes" you have to do it that way.
Jimmy…..that was a very, very interesting take on Gymnastics v Parkour/ Free Running…coming from a gymnastic background in my youth…I so wish Parkour….I so wish it’d be around in my 20’s…..I love watching Parkour …and have massive respect for it…and bizarrely bumped into two of the Storror crew outside my flat in Brighton yesterday..I introduced myself and had a fascinating chat with them both. Great job with this video Jimmy
@nicovanhole used to be 5 times belgian champion tumbling on the floor in his teens. Now he is world class parkour. Another great example like Tim and Ed! Great Video btw!
Jimmy the Giant has ruined gymnastics for me! Seriously, I love the Olympics, but I noticed how bored I was with gymnastics this year, and I wondered when Parkour would become an Olympic sport. The new additions of BMX, skateboarding, surfing etc. were genuinely fun to watch… the times are a changing 🥇
Skateboarding and bmx yes but surfing? The transmission I watched you saw one guy on a surf board for HOURS just WAITING for waves. Maybe the surfing highlights then, but it's really hard to follow a whole competition
Has someone who works in rehab and physical therapy I’ve seen some horrific gymnastic related injuries, it such a hard sport and there just very little incentive for such a grueling endeavor, a life of dedication and very little to show for it on the male side.
I don’t agree to be honest. To do gymnastics in a healthy way it requires a lot of physical and mental power. A lot of parkour athletes lack the knowledge that a good trainer provides for his gymnasts. A boring training has nothing to do with gymnastics. There are just a lot of trainers doing a shit job letting kids wait in lines to do one vault. I teach kids who prefer the elegance of a beam routine or the perfection of a switch leap as well as kids who like to do big jumps or creative vaults. There are less kids who match the requirements to do competitive gymnastics in a healthy way which is why it is less popular. Less than 1% of gymnasts have contact with the rules and guidelines so you don’t need to worry about the restrictions. If you understand the code of points you will discover all the unique and tactical decisions a gymnast makes to make their routine work. Most of the footage of that triple double is not a triple double.
While it may be true that a lot of us parkour guys don't have a multitude of knowledge when it comes to training, we're also not training to be competitive the majority of the time. I think a "boring" training does have a large part to do with why the sport is declining. The focus on perfection and scoring can hold kids back from progressing in a way that is fun and engaging and if they are not having fun, what is the point? Don't get me wrong, some kids absolutely excel in a very structured environment and that is great, but the appeal of that isn't there for everyone interested in movement like this. Shit teachers are also a problem, but I think that is a very different topic.
Although I follow freeruning, Jimmy seems like a guy that never did performance sports. I also follow gymnastics and although I never practiced it, I had gymnasts colleagues that were doing crazy movements. For example they were extremly strong in isometric exercises. But people that disconsider the sacrifices and rigouresness of professional athletes will not understand the beauty of building the character in an extreme competitive environment.
I understand the points he made, but I agree with you. A lot of the kids never start competing in gymnastics. But once they do, the lower levels are very structured, but the higher levels, as you said, can come up with their own routines as long as they follow the rules. Like you have to have at least one of each type of thing (e.g. On high bar release, front giant, back giant, in bar, and dismount) but you can choose what skills to do and how to string them together. If you watch routines, especially on floor, and rings, you can see each persons little flair they add. Like more tumbling, handstands, strength.
I know this is just good content bc i don't do free running or anyting (just climbing) and i still watch your video's. Even though I have never shown interest in free running before I have shown interest in good entertainment. Keep up the good work Jim :)
For someone like me,who practiced gymnastics for over ten years now (in italy tho) every single year i could see how men’s competition (from regional to national)started slowly dying,I have been in competition with more than 30 people but happend to find myself compeeting with like 5 or 6 others
Love the vid jimmy, you’ve totally levelled up your level of analysis- the rigidity of gymnastics over parkour leads me into thinking about other factors, like the Larry Nassar scandal/coverup, the abusive nature of some of the top coaching- gymnastics seems to have a cultural issue that is only out in the open now. Participation could slow down overall based on these factors, and other programs could suffer guilt by association. when you add the punishment for innovation it totally makes sense that a potential gymnast would pick parkour or tricking
I tend to watch these for his breakdowns and the educational purposes just cuz I love how Jimmy analyzes things but the humor aspect of it was so rich in this video. "Cheeky little weapons tucked up their arsenal" had me dying😂😂😂love ya jimmy. Keep doing you
A reason for gymnastics strict code of points is to make sure that judges scores are based on technical merit and not on subjective opinion of the routine. Each skill has a point value and rules for deductions. So every judges score should be fairly close together, with any outliers having to show why there score deviated from the norm (whether higher or lower). Ice Dancing had a big problem with this in the past during international competition where the judges could basically decide the outcome by all scoring the same in a large enough block to give certain pairs higher scores no matter how well anyone else did (barring a pair having a complete wipe out on the ice). That's because their judging was very subjective and nobody had to worry about a deviant score being questioned. As for mens gymnastics, I say get rid of the floor exercise and its ridiculous dance elements and just give them a long mat to go back and forth across making 4 or 6 tumbling passes. I mean... seriously, they don't even perform to music so why have the dance part.
Korbut's tricks are not banned, due to difficulty. They break up the flow of the routine. Triple double got a deduction due to not having a perfect landing (the risk of doing something difficult, is that it is harder to land). The only banned skills are roll outs on floor (break necks). The video is correct that today's rules really crack down on slight imperfections, but that is an effort to control the danger in the sport. If Parkour turns into a sport that is scored, then it will turn into the same. Parkour should not turn itself into a regulated sport. There isn't the culture and camaraderie that there is in Parkour. Gymnastics is an individual sport, in which the modern day version (not Greek) ironically starting as a team building sport for Eastern European militaries
as a former gymnast, although as a child, most of the boys were expected to leave before they reached high-school age, and there were 0 dudes above the age of 15. most guys didn't have a passion for gymnastics, just a passion for flipping and stuff.
I think u hit the nail on the head with the point that gymnastics rules are too strict and limit creativity. Personally, I don't find many small aspects of parkour interesting such as a lot of just jumps and stuff, but I appreciate the fact that there are no creative bounds on the sport and that's probably just the POV of someone who is more interested in tricking than parkour so I respect the opinion
Just a quick insight from some who's done gymnastics for 16 years. Every 4 years they updates the rules and change routines as well as a list of all authorized tricks. Since gymnastics rise the rules have become more strict and the list of authorized tricks gets shorter. Some of the the changes make sense, but in the end mens gymnastics is really restrictive. Womens gymnastics has more freedom than mens, everything from routine design to types of allowable tricks.
I would love to see a video with tips on how to find good spots in the future, because I struggle to find news ones and instead hang out at old spots which can get boring
As a gymnast my opinions may be a little subjectiv. But in this video you say that gymnastics has not evolved there past decads, well i would say that is wrong. In the rules departement it has evolved to become more boring, but some of the skills done today was thought imbossible 50 years ago. I think a problem is that a lot of instroctors is in an old mind set and they think there is only one way to learn gymnastics. But thank you for svinging light on this problem. Even dough it would have been nice if you tried to come up with some solutions.
Well, I'd claim that it's not gymnastics that evolved but the gymnasts. Gymnasts are stronger and more resilient now. But I feel the sport devolved. Less creativity now and the only avenue left to advance is just more twists, more flips. That's it
The ending of this video sums up the first 10 years of my life I didn’t want to do it I was forced down it as soon as I got my own say I quit n moved to freerunning it was torture and competitive level
I think the rules that are set in Gymnastics made it easier to assess the skills therefore easier to compare to others. However, it definitely limits a lot of other things coz it's bounded by rules. If they (maybe) open a creativity-driven category, that may save the sport (assuming they haven't). On the contrary, this is why it's harder to judge a Parkour competition as there aren't strict black and white guidelines. It's too free and judging becomes subjective. It can also be the main reason why it's harder to get to IOC. Both discipline/sports have fixes though :D
I couldn't agree with you more. I did gymnastics for about 4 years when I was younger and I finished because of that very reason. It was such a strict and uncreative environment. The only reason I kept it up for so long was because we used to get to class 20mins early and "mess about" on the equipment and the mats before the real class would start. Basically doing gym parkour, we just didn't know thats what it was
3:59 The Thomas Flip (invented by Kurt Thomas) was banned from Olympics too. Too much risk they say. Nowadays Skateboarding and BMX is part of the Olympics. That`s logic...
Bruh, literally the reason I gave up Gymnastics and moved to PK was because after nearly 10 years of gymnastics, I started doing variations of the Thomas flip, and was told I couldn't because it was illegal. Literally responded with the biggest ??? on my face and transitioned to PK not long after.
i love gymnastics, because of its diversity. I don't think it's the rules for the competition behind it, but more the training style. I was fortunate to have a fun team, who was going out after competitions, hanging out outside the training sessions etc. It's maybe forbidden to do these moves in comps, but no one prohibits you to train them for yourself. And same with parkour, training feels like a jam. If you're fortunate, your mates have more or less the same skill level and as soon as the first person gets the move, others will follow. Training for me is a fun and friendly competition. Just because it's old, it doesn't mean it has no justification to exist. You can't compare pears to apples (ballet still exists in spite of break dance). I agree that both should learn from each other
Hey Jimmy, you save me a lot of time 🙂 you are doing all they research that I would have done myself. I should start sending you my wish list. Greetings Sam
One misake I want to point out: Biles does the triple-double (triple-twisting double backflip), but the clip you use (for example at 15:50) is a simple full in (single twisting double backflip)
This is what I like about climbing as well. There are no style points. You are just given the challenge of getting to the last hold, and you get to do whatever moves or techniques you feel like to get there..
I do remember they always said the strict rules were there for the scoring, but then everyone always says the judges are a holes like in ice skating. They all have to do the same stuff so they can make sure the scores are all based off the same things. I dont know how you would make the scoring fair if everyone is doing differnt things. Maybe its also to ensure a standard of some kind. My cousins did gymnastics for decades. They were always so shredded. 6 pack abs and all that stuff. Me, i might as well wear a t-shirt that says i buy in bulk
I know that it's obvious most tricking passes would score poorly on a gymnastics judging panel, but I wonder just how badly it would score. If someone with experience judging gymnastics competitions could review a few clips from Shosei and Guthrie and put them side by side with some gymnastics clips with a breakdown of each score, I'd be more than happy to pay for that video
I stopped doing gymnastics when I aged-out of my local gym. I couldn't find any gyms that so much as had an open time when 18-year-olds could at least come practice
As a Swiss, looking over the pond as good as i can, i get the impression, that there is a lack of e.g. gymnastics clubs, which do it for the fun. Here in Switzerland a form of gymnastics is one of the biggest sports. We call it "Vereinsgeräteturnen" or VGT in short, basically club gymnastics. They have a bit a different rule set, so the extreme maneuvres like Simone Biles or Nikita Nagorny do, are not done. Because it's supposed to be a sport for everyone that wants. But don't get fooled into thinking they would be bad gymnasts. There are some clubs which are very competitive, while others are doing it purely for the fun and care less about the results. The biggest competition is every 6 years (smaller ones are every year), the Eidgenössisches Turnfest (federal gymnastics festival) where more or less all clubs in Switzerland compete in athletics, games and gymnastics. One part of the competition a club can choose is VGT. With this system, the numbers of active athletes who atleast partly do gymnastics are incredibly high. Just in 2007 there were 56'000 competitors at the event, 2013 it was 60'000 and 2019 there were 69'000 people. Just to show what this is all about, some clips in the links below. These are some of the best clubs in Switzerland. th-cam.com/video/8eE_tgciRLw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/I1ZwJ0Rkg-Q/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/8VwDCSVL_Tw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/Gu8Wr7DF76k/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/yJG1oj2R5xw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/RuE5GMxI4jQ/w-d-xo.html
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You make an amazing point my friend. As a gymnast myself I’m seeing a decline as well here in Australia, my school along with many others have cut it. The main reason why I did it was because, well what I think every boy did it for… to backflip. I feel as though our club does a very good job at making it fun and enjoyable. I treasure the free time we get too work on our own stuff (parkour and tricking). But I have a small ounce of hope that it will make a comeback. Honestly though, it is probably a better career choice to branch off into parkour ect. But right now I’m enjoying gymnastics so I will continue to progress and see the new skills and feel and become stronger.
Bro putring this kind of stuff in the comments is kinda tacky, especially since your comment is always at the top
I don’t agree to be honest. To do gymnastics in a healthy way it requires a lot of physical and mental power. A lot of parkour athletes lack the knowledge that a good trainer provides for his gymnasts. A boring training has nothing to do with gymnastics. There are just a lot of trainers doing a shit job letting kids wait in lines to do one vault. I teach kids who prefer the elegance of a beam routine or the perfection of a switch leap as well as kids who like to do big jumps or creative vaults. There are less kids who match the requirements to do competitive gymnastics in a healthy way which is why it is less popular. Less than 1% of gymnasts have contact with the rules and guidelines so you don’t need to worry about the restrictions. If you understand the code of points you will discover all the unique and tactical decisions a gymnast makes to make their routine work.
Most of the footage of that triple double is not a triple double.
@@drieslaukens I agree with this, there is a huge community now of gymnasts from all across the world on Instagram who are constantly pushing the boundaries of the sport and inspiring each other, the biggest issue within the sport now is the established institutions (fig, usag, etc) that stifle their athletes creativity and difficulty by making it less acceptable to do difficult skills and express their personalities during their routines, the athletes are trying to push and be more creative as tricking and parkour have been doing however the powers that be are trying to hold the sport back
Mate, morning Brew isnt even valid for us UK lot?? LOL?
I took gymnastics for a few weeks when I was around 8 years old, which was barely after I had taught myself how to do a backhandspring. One day I was in the level 1 and level 2 classes, and while our class was passing the springfloor on the way to the rings I decided to do a round off backhandspring just for fun. I thought my coach would think it was cool, but no. She just frowns at me and says "Calen, you're not allowed to do backhandsprings until you reach level 4. Please don't do it again."
...
There's a reason I'm a Freerunner now. 🤷♂️😅👍👍
PS: I did backhandsprings everyday outside for a year before that moment so being told that I wasn't allowed to do a skill I was so consistent and comfortable in and had so much fun doing obviously made me feel like I was in an environment of restriction instead of progression.
So your gymnastics coach saved you 😳
There is also a reason why many (edited from most) young freerunners get dumb injuries. I'd love to see statistics of it compared to gymnastics with decent trainers.
I love Freerunning though. It's just that, gymnastics basics are a must.
@@AfonsoOliveira12 you shouldn’t be many getting dumb injuries while free running, I haven’t heard of parkour people getting injured at much. You shouldn’t be doing stuff that you aren’t confident you can do.
@@jared4575 Confidence has nothing to do with competence.
@@AfonsoOliveira12 “the sun doesn’t have to do with the earth being warm”
If you lack confidence but you have the ability to do it, you still could end up bailing, which causes the worst of injuries. Also, just not trying something you’re not confident in can be good because if you were to do it you could fail because you misjudged it. When I’m confident in something I know for a fact I can do it, any risk of injury from failure makes it a fat no for me.
As someone who has watched gymnastics her whole life (50 years), and discovered parkour a few years ago, I totally agree with you. The fun factor has to be strongly considered. I love your videos even though I'm a fat, middle-aged American woman who has never and will never actually DO parkour. You explain so much and bring great perspectives to your videos. I always look forward to your uploads. Thanks!
Even you being Fay you shouldn't discourage yourself so much on not doing it
It's really cool
the fact you respond this way, given that you have 50 years worth of awareness to gymnastics, youre cool in my book
You should try some Parkour classes! You'd be surprised with what you can do =) Most coaches are very welcoming to any body type and age.
I’m with you @Orange Everything. Probably a bit late for me to leap off… well anything, 😁 but I have two you kids and I’d love to get them into Parkour. They already climb onto and jump off everything. Seems like it might be a good fit! Parkour seems like such a vibrant and welcoming community. Jimmy’s videos are fantastic and I love getting a little snapshot (from my armchair) of this sport as it grows.
Several groups offer Parkour classes aimed at the 50+ age group...never say never! I'm a 42 myself and I do parkour! th-cam.com/video/Uv-CiuftTDA/w-d-xo.html
The clip of simone biles she is just doing a full in and not the triple double. Her triple double is actually scored appropriately, it is her double double beam dismount and double pike vault that were downgraded.
I noticed same thing and started replaying the clip just to check my calculations lol. She just did a 1 twist 2 flip. Triple double has to be 3 twists 2 flips.
opps, it was taken from a different vid, I did wonder that myself but oh well! cheers for explaining
Thank God somebody noticed
I was looking for this comment, because if it didn't exist I wasn't going to be able to stop myself from making it. I'm going to go try to get a life now.
The triple double is actually the first clip of her in this vid
As an American who is a collegiate distance runner, the explanation of Title IX is spot on. Funding goes directly to the popular sports and leaves us with scraps, thus the programs like Cross Country and Gymnastics struggle with retention
I don't see the problem within Title IX. Equal funding is important. But I the problem is the inequality of the funding in between the disciplines (in this case mens). Why does a sport like football that generates money even need funding? There should be al law to equalize the money in between the disciplines as well.
@@matthiasanderl9533 I completely disagree. American football and basketball actually generate profit, so benefits like scholarships to those athletes are important. They need to get the best athletes to get the best program to get the most viewership. If a college has only a certain amount of money to be put into a few sports, they should definitely put it into their most profitable sports.
@@matthiasanderl9533 Imagine an entrepreneur who owns 5 companies. If 2 of the companies are extremely profitable, the entrepreneur should put most of the capital into those 2 cause the others aren’t as possible
@@nicolasashbaugh2239 except schools shouldn’t be a business, university should be a place where young people go to get an education, the schools should focus on giving the students the best experience possible rather than trying to make the most money possible
@@nicolasashbaugh2239 sure that's what is economically best for a university. But at the moment we are talking about law we are talking about what's best for the country. Sure we could say mens football and basketball is our everything and all other sports aren't important (especially womens cause a lot less people watch that). But I think if a state funds sports, it wants to support sports that wouldn't be able to finance itself without that money. Yet with just a fund the uni would support only the lucrative sports in their program. Not because they are evil, but because they have to compete with the other unis which probably do spend this money on football and basketball. So in addition to that fund a state should enforce laws to force the colleges and unis to spend this money also on non profitable sport programms. Title IX actually does that but only in between genders not in between disciplines (especially mens) so it seems not enough (from my non US point of view). Maybe a law needs to be enforced that hinders these two sports from taking nearly all the money.
That point you made about gymnasts seeing freerunners at their gyms and wanting to try parkour instead is SPOT ON. I recently got a job coaching parkour and gymnastics at a hybrid gymnastics/parkour center, and the amount of both girls and boys who beg me to take them to the parkour area during their gymnastics classes is incredible. And they always looks so enthralled by the skills we use in parkour. It’s really quite beautiful to see. And sometimes sad, considering some of their parents seemingly force them into a discipline they’re not really happy with. :/
That being said I have also seen (less often) some parkour athletes that really thrive on having a clear sense of direction and rigidity to their training and find themselves favoring a more gymnastic style sport.
I think a great example of what gymnastics could be was Katelyn Ohashi's floor routine in 2019. She was doing so much unique movement and seemed to just be having fun, it was something that people really never see in the sport. I think it's okay that there are rules against tricking-style movement, it's okay for gymnastics to maintain its distinct style, but there needs to be more room for athletes to just have fun. I think it would make it much more enjoyable for the athletes and would make it infinitely more interesting to watch.
Agreed I love how they can interact with their team/crowd and also the music choices are way more fun
😂
Watches viral video
“I’m an authority on gymnastics now”
My mom always wanted me to do gymnastics, but then i discovered freerunning and she was very supportive of me doing that instead
10/10 would grow up again
good parents. nice dude
One of the main reasons (at least in canada) is because a lot of the coaches would force their kids to do things that they didn’t want to do or were even downright abusive. My mom, who went on to compete in the olympics in trampoline, hated gymnastics as a kid because they would force her into the splits to “make her more flexible” and other things like that, so she quit and did trampoline instead. There have now been lots of athletes coming out about their previous coaches being abusive.
as a former gymnast, yes. the culture is just insanely abusive, and it's all inflicted on little kids who have a tiny tiny window to compete professionally. my interest switched to extreme sports bc of that- yeah it's still dangerous, but its free choice. nobody is taking children and forcing them to compete in bmx or skateboarding as far as i know
My daughter was a team GB gymnast and was ranked 3rd in Europe before she hung up her leotard Yes that's right I'm that bloody old anyway having lived over a decade around full time gymnastics I totally agree with everything you said in the video these days most of the quality kids sack off gymnastics and join Cirque du Soleil yes the pay is always a bonus but also because it's fun unlike doing the same floutines day after day and losing the will to live .
As somebody who came from a Gymnastics background competing at National level (Youth), I relate to this so much… I got bored of this Sport & the strict rules.
Not many Sports kept my interest until I started Parkour. There’s a reason so many Athletes take interest in Pk coming out of other Sports! 🙌🏽 You can actually be an individual & create your own style.
I wanted to do gymnastics for most of my life. It wasn't until I was 12 years old that I had the opportunity to join a gym and try it out. By this point I was already flexible and able to do many of the basics, cartwheels, handstands, roundoffs, etc, because of my background in martial arts. However, once I started gymnastics I was constantly told I was too old to start and was made fun of by others in the class. Cause I wanted to learn and condition, they all wanted to perform. I had no care for the sport of gymnastics I just wanted to learn how to move through a space and manipulate my body.
So once parkour had started growing I inevitably found a gym where many people got together to practice parkour. What I found out is that I basically gained nearly all the skills I sought after in gymnastics, but without all the excess bs it was just 'let's learn something fun' and that was all I wanted.
If gymnastics could develop past the way it is right now then it wouldn’t be dying. The rules as you said are very strict and I think if gymnastics wants to survive as a sport it needs to catch up. It’s unfortunate that it’s that way as I love the sport. I’ve started teaching myself gymnastics and there’s a reason for that, I don’t want those rules restricting me.
And I was saying whilst watching the BMX that gymnastics should also be marked off of uniqueness just as the BMX is.
I teach parkour at a gymnastics gym, and the owner has pretty much divided the classes between boys and girls. I always have gymnastics girls asking why I can't be their teacher instead, because they see the parkour classes as creative and fun. I've only ever had one student say he prefers gymnastics over parkour, and he's on track to be an Olympian.
I am in a similar boat to you here. While my parkour classes are open to girls as well, I have had plenty of past gymnasts in my classes and even the current ones in my gym are always interested in what I'm doing because it is so outside of their norm. Honestly if your pk classes were co-ed I bet your enrollment would rise, so from a business perspective that just doesnt make sense.
I coach gymnastics at a smaller gym so we don't have parkour. Please encourage him! We need more Men's Gymnasts at that level, especially with how our team has done recently!
It is not actually just the rules suffocating gymnastics, although they are a great part of it, its also the general culture surrounding it. I'm Dutch and I do a tumbling and am starting to take up freerunning for these exact reasons(I'm not that good tho) but the culture behind it is just.... the little girls at my club are drilled like they are in the army and literally brainwashed. The men's team has quite a lot of people who have a slight growth defect due to too much muscle gain too early on in their lives. The tumbling section isn't that strict and they literally look down on us for that. And to add to it, if you just look all the scandals that surround gymnastics, Olga Korboet has literally told the press she was broken bc of this, years after. Its just sad indeed
Tumbling is really fun to watch, actually. So joy can still be found in parts of gymnastics.
Great video man. As a gymnast myself I agree on most of the things you said. However the flip Simone does at the end of your video is not a triple double. It’s a full in I think. Also you seem to only focus on floor and ground tricks when talking about gymnastics but don’t forget there a 5 other disciplines in gymnastics. Which some are similar and some are very different.
Yeah
wish you can also try parkour.. and perhaps its gymnasts like you who can water the rift that some hardcore parkour people are trying to ride on for the sake of opposing the norm
This video is basically Jimmy dissing gymnastics lmao
When I was 15 I tried to sign up for a gymnastics class. They told me I was too old to start now and would never be able to learn all the moves to become a gymnast. They only cared about winning competitions and not about teaching kids and teenagers how to flip, move and become better in doing it, just for the fun.
After a friend showed me the Yamakasi movie and David Belle videos, we taught ourselves flips on old mattresses and sandpits.
Years later I ended up running a Parkour class in the same gym, because the demand for Parkour classes was so high among male teenagers.
I watch all your videos. This is my favorite yet! Discipline is essential to progression but fun is the fuel for innovation. Love the message, yes to free expression with purpose and style.
Absolutely loved this analysis/breakdown Jimmy! 🙌🏻
Gymnastics just got too extreme... When I wanted to start at 8 years, they told me I'm too old... Others who made it earlier had training regiments so abusive at such a young age that they just didn't want to continue...
I am a gymnast, and I have grown a love for the sport, I still respect parkour and I won't mind going out to do some flips in town but I still think men's artistic gymnastics deserves respect for the discipline of perfecting moves to allow for great technique.
Man I absolutely love your content, I just found your channel a little over a week ago. I've watched so many of your videos already. Kind of feel like I'm an expert on parkour now lol, I really appreciate your content. You took something I new very little about (parkour/freerunning) and made it so interesting to me. Now I find my self diving down rabbit holes discovering new things, that's all your fault. You're absolutely one of my new favorite creators. Keep up all the hard work.
Thank you man
Gymnastics doesn't only have strict rules now, but you have to consider it's a much older sport than parkour. People have already done most of the things humanly possible within the rules. I'm curious to see how parkour evolves in 20 years from now. Glad there are people like Jimmy to document it's evolution as it happens.
They've done most of the things humanly possible?? Then why can't gymnasts do 99% of the tricks free-runners and trickers do? Why can't they use a diagonal roll which is safer and more connective than the spine-slamming roll they do?
The rigid rule set is designed around allowing judges to score movement objectively. The whole sport is designed around producing Olympic athletes whose skill can be measured in numbers. You can see in the Art of Motion what happens when you don't have a rigid rule set but try to objectively measure any way. The judging is totally arbitrary and pretty much promotes whatever the judges personally "like" at the time. Free-running will never be Olympic for this reason. And that's a good thing in the long-term. Gymnastics show us what happens when you go down that road. You freeze in time and the initial surge in popularity is quickly forgotten. I hope free-running remains "free".
Ironically PARKOUR actually is conducive to competitions. Skill is easy to measure in time, like with any other racing sport. Parkour is the one that should become Olympic because it can already be measured objectively, no rigid rule set required.
They may have done the majority of possible moves on the events that exist, but how long has it been since an event has been added or changed? The addition of a new event or category would certainly bring more eyes and athletes to the sport.
@@forasago i think u misread his comment
Well … part of the reason those tricks were banned from competition in gymnastics was that people we’re literally dying or breaking their necks during competition … but overall I agree. It’s the stifling creativity
This was a really interesting video. Wow. At first I was a bit skeptical when you started dissing gymnastics but ill be honest that your points made sense and were logical. I agree with you.
I really want someone to make it to the Gymnastics then do an insane tricking routine just to prove the point that gymnastic creativity is dead
I was thinking the same thing. That would make such a powerful statement
Sadly this is not going to happen
My middle child is an up and coming gymnast and its pretty sad that in the US there are only ~12 male collegiate programs left, and it is expected to go lower still. There are very few scholarships available now. They have to move on to cheerleading if they want a scholarship. It is a pretty sad end to 12 years of training or so, but hey, Ninja Warrior is always an option.
Gymnasts do fun stuff. The problem is that you just watch competitions, not their training, unlike parkour, where you mostly watch training aka having fun. Parkour competitions get as boring as gymnastics (if not more), at the same time gymnastics have some partially clear criteria for judging.
idk i think only parkour skill competitions are a bit boring. the freestyle and speed events in parkour competitions are much more hype to watch imo
Yeah but problem is there is barely any training videos since there is this one rule of keeping routine practices a secret and well the athletes just do not post too much. I scoured the internet and I can barely see footage of gymnastics training sessions in the same vein as like Plan Zero. Just competition stuff.
Amazing! And I absolutely think you're right. As a girl, I've done 7 years of gymnastics because I always climbed in streetlights, jumped on everything, climbed in everything...
But almost 1 year ago I started freerunning. I'm having a lot more fun now😊
Having rules in a sport is fine, until they start stifling creativity and self expression... In sports such as gymnastics especially. Gymnastics without creativity just becomes a box ticking exercise then. Did they complete this move, did they remember to point their toes etc.
Always delivering. Amazing man, keep doing this awesome videos!!!
I was a male competitive gymnast for 10 years and I think more the reason it’s decreasing In popularity is because it’s such an extreme sport on the body I couldn’t do it anymore even when I was reaching my peak in physique, I had to quit it was torture to keep up competitively. There’s sm other sports now that are easier, higher paid and have facilities more frequent. Another thing most male and a lot of female gymnasts that I grew up with all moved to tumbling instead of artistic which is another thing to consider. I also think now freerunning is become a more mainstream sport and seemed ‘cool’ compared to ‘gymnastics’ most talented boys/men who could go down the gymnastic route go down the freerunning/parkour route as it’s not so hated on
This video answers some questions I have been hoping you would answer for months, so thanks sir!
Another great video! We have only 1 Gym in my city, and they don't have any programm for adults to learn how to flip or anything else, because I think they have the mentality you talk about it, like they doesn't care about the fun part of the sport.
Great video as always! Keep up the good work!👍
I particularly feel your passion in this video since it's touching on a more personal topic
I’m actually one of the athletes that was affected by the rapid cutting of men’s programs. The Illinois-Chicago team was cut after my sophomore year (2019). I do think you make an interesting point here, I’ve loved transitioning from gymnastics to parkour and the creative freedom it’s given me, but I think that’s the thing. Parkour is more of an art and gymnastics is more of a sport. I loved gymnastics because of the pursuit of perfection and learning how to compete in super high pressure situations. I don’t think parkour offers that same appeal. Competing in the NCAA was definitely the highlight of my athletic career just because of that competitive/high pressure atmosphere. However, since more teams are getting cut every year you may very well have me cornered here haha
Hm, What about doing very intense risky jumps in parkour? The way I handle those is the same I handle competition pressure now. Do you know what I mean?
Seems to have been a long week waiting for this to drop nice one dude needed cheering up
I taught parkour professionally in a gymnastics gym for 4 years, and the amount of times I heard gymnastics coaches and the owner of the gym say That parkour was just a way to trick boys into gymnastics is astounding! I think the difference is parkour seems cool and dangerous where like you said, gymnastics just seems lame. The little boys and even a lot of the girls just wanted to do flips and run up the walls, they didn't want to worry about where their toes were, and landing with a smile. They just wanted to have fun.
You speak my mind! We have some potentially cool sports like diving and gymnastics that are ruined by their strict rules on how to stand walk and move your feet. No room for style.
Love the format of these types of videos, thanks to you I stayed up way too late. Larry
Interesting video, I think I might be the exception to your claim that people defect to pk/freerunning. I did pk when I was in my early teens but eventually lost my passion for it. I picked up gymnastics when I started university, I've done it for three years and have never found anything so fulfilling. I think discipline is rewarding to a certain extent, but I agree that it's not fun to be strangled by too many rules. I get huge satisfaction out of teaching myself Gymnastics, I find I hold myself to a high standard, without needing a coach to criticize my form. If you're in the UK and like the idea of Gymnastics, have a look for open gyms. I genuinely think it's the best way to experience the sport.
Elena Mukhina. TH-cam search it. That's the reason for the restrictions, the olympics don't want fatalities and tetraplegic young women on their live transmitions. If something is forbidden is because someone got really hurt for trying it, and young athletes will try if it gain points, no matter the risks.
The clip of Biles that you used is not her doing a triple-double. It's "just" a full-in.
Yup 😅
My 9 year old son really wanted to try gymnastics after watching an event on tv. To give context - He is the most enthusiastic and energetic kid that loves everything! We went along to a local club for a few sessions. I can only describe the vibe as a group of grumpy, overweight middle aged women making children stand in lines for long periods of time. On the last session we picked up a flyer for the Parkour group that train in the same gym. He has been going for a year and loves it so much his younger brother and 12 of their school friends now go along to the club. It’s taken by a group of athletic young men who they all look up to and they really enjoy the atmosphere.
I think you overlooked calisthenics part in that topic. Im sure "domesticating" rings to the point of being mainstream alternative to weigh lifting didn't help if someone want to be gymnast to hang in weird position instead of jumping in weird position
As a gymnast I can understand why some people want the freedom to do whatever in there sport but for others such as my self the orderliness of gymnastics makes it appeal to me and others. I think you missed something though and that is a shift in American culture. Feeling pain or fear is normal for gymnastics but with a sport where starting young is crucial many parents don't want to let there kid go through that even though the hurt of worth the gain.
Stifling creativity is the exact same controversy at the heart of skateboarding competitions. But the difference is that skateboarding built a culture first before the competitions became the standard.
Anyone who skates at competitions, are still compelled to do video parts. The creativity that comes from video parts keep judging in competition in check. If a trick becomes popular in video parts, expect to see it being graded fairly at a competition. Then there are best trick awards in tournaments etc.
Even then, competitions can still be stifling. I remember watching Andy Anderson mixing freestyle and street tricks at Tampa Pro Ams and the judges had no idea how to score him. I thought he was entertaining but the judges didn't think entertaining and innovation was important.
Now with skateboarding being the Olympics, I think it's a good avenue for skaters to make money. But I hope the chase for perfection, debates on how to judge a street part, won't stifle skateboarding.
Any sport or creative endeavor starts dying when it puts forward competition for an award in front of the fun. You may see similar process with martial arts with strict rules, like taekwondo etc
Andy is awesome! Love him!
As someone who did parkour and a small bit of gymnastics
I feel like gymnastics help getting down learning body control and form
And then parkour is the creative and freedom side of things
Like..both are equally important..I mean you can learn good form and body control in parkour but I feel like gymnastics may help push more on getting form and body control right because of as you said them being strict with rules and stuff
In ballet, you always start your en croix on the right side. We've known for about 450 years that this is a bad idea, creating imbalances, but if you want to "play the notes" you have to do it that way.
Jimmy…..that was a very, very interesting take on Gymnastics v Parkour/ Free Running…coming from a gymnastic background in my youth…I so wish Parkour….I so wish it’d be around in my 20’s…..I love watching Parkour …and have massive respect for it…and bizarrely bumped into two of the Storror crew outside my flat in Brighton yesterday..I introduced myself and had a fascinating chat with them both.
Great job with this video Jimmy
@nicovanhole used to be 5 times belgian champion tumbling on the floor in his teens. Now he is world class parkour. Another great example like Tim and Ed! Great Video btw!
Jimmy the Giant has ruined gymnastics for me! Seriously, I love the Olympics, but I noticed how bored I was with gymnastics this year, and I wondered when Parkour would become an Olympic sport.
The new additions of BMX, skateboarding, surfing etc. were genuinely fun to watch… the times are a changing 🥇
Skateboarding and bmx yes but surfing? The transmission I watched you saw one guy on a surf board for HOURS just WAITING for waves. Maybe the surfing highlights then, but it's really hard to follow a whole competition
Has someone who works in rehab and physical therapy I’ve seen some horrific gymnastic related injuries, it such a hard sport and there just very little incentive for such a grueling endeavor, a life of dedication and very little to show for it on the male side.
I don’t agree to be honest. To do gymnastics in a healthy way it requires a lot of physical and mental power. A lot of parkour athletes lack the knowledge that a good trainer provides for his gymnasts. A boring training has nothing to do with gymnastics. There are just a lot of trainers doing a shit job letting kids wait in lines to do one vault. I teach kids who prefer the elegance of a beam routine or the perfection of a switch leap as well as kids who like to do big jumps or creative vaults. There are less kids who match the requirements to do competitive gymnastics in a healthy way which is why it is less popular. Less than 1% of gymnasts have contact with the rules and guidelines so you don’t need to worry about the restrictions. If you understand the code of points you will discover all the unique and tactical decisions a gymnast makes to make their routine work.
Most of the footage of that triple double is not a triple double.
Damn he’s spitting facts tho
While it may be true that a lot of us parkour guys don't have a multitude of knowledge when it comes to training, we're also not training to be competitive the majority of the time. I think a "boring" training does have a large part to do with why the sport is declining. The focus on perfection and scoring can hold kids back from progressing in a way that is fun and engaging and if they are not having fun, what is the point? Don't get me wrong, some kids absolutely excel in a very structured environment and that is great, but the appeal of that isn't there for everyone interested in movement like this. Shit teachers are also a problem, but I think that is a very different topic.
Although I follow freeruning, Jimmy seems like a guy that never did performance sports. I also follow gymnastics and although I never practiced it, I had gymnasts colleagues that were doing crazy movements. For example they were extremly strong in isometric exercises. But people that disconsider the sacrifices and rigouresness of professional athletes will not understand the beauty of building the character in an extreme competitive environment.
I understand the points he made, but I agree with you. A lot of the kids never start competing in gymnastics. But once they do, the lower levels are very structured, but the higher levels, as you said, can come up with their own routines as long as they follow the rules. Like you have to have at least one of each type of thing (e.g. On high bar release, front giant, back giant, in bar, and dismount) but you can choose what skills to do and how to string them together. If you watch routines, especially on floor, and rings, you can see each persons little flair they add. Like more tumbling, handstands, strength.
I know this is just good content bc i don't do free running or anyting (just climbing) and i still watch your video's. Even though I have never shown interest in free running before I have shown interest in good entertainment.
Keep up the good work Jim :)
i really enjoy your work, thank you Jimmy!
For someone like me,who practiced gymnastics for over ten years now (in italy tho) every single year i could see how men’s competition (from regional to national)started slowly dying,I have been in competition with more than 30 people but happend to find myself compeeting with like 5 or 6 others
great vid man loving vison :)
Love the vid jimmy, you’ve totally levelled up your level of analysis- the rigidity of gymnastics over parkour leads me into thinking about other factors, like the Larry Nassar scandal/coverup, the abusive nature of some of the top coaching- gymnastics seems to have a cultural issue that is only out in the open now. Participation could slow down overall based on these factors, and other programs could suffer guilt by association. when you add the punishment for innovation it totally makes sense that a potential gymnast would pick parkour or tricking
Yup... You just earned a follower. Loved your content and you too. You and your personality + Info are Amazing.
I tend to watch these for his breakdowns and the educational purposes just cuz I love how Jimmy analyzes things but the humor aspect of it was so rich in this video. "Cheeky little weapons tucked up their arsenal" had me dying😂😂😂love ya jimmy. Keep doing you
Mate, you should get in touch with Nile Wilson, I think you two could do a mint collab
Honestly I would love to see them both have a discussion/debate about this.
Rules enable scoring, which enables ranking, which enables medals.
All are unimportant
A reason for gymnastics strict code of points is to make sure that judges scores are based on technical merit and not on subjective opinion of the routine. Each skill has a point value and rules for deductions. So every judges score should be fairly close together, with any outliers having to show why there score deviated from the norm (whether higher or lower). Ice Dancing had a big problem with this in the past during international competition where the judges could basically decide the outcome by all scoring the same in a large enough block to give certain pairs higher scores no matter how well anyone else did (barring a pair having a complete wipe out on the ice). That's because their judging was very subjective and nobody had to worry about a deviant score being questioned.
As for mens gymnastics, I say get rid of the floor exercise and its ridiculous dance elements and just give them a long mat to go back and forth across making 4 or 6 tumbling passes. I mean... seriously, they don't even perform to music so why have the dance part.
Korbut's tricks are not banned, due to difficulty. They break up the flow of the routine. Triple double got a deduction due to not having a perfect landing (the risk of doing something difficult, is that it is harder to land). The only banned skills are roll outs on floor (break necks). The video is correct that today's rules really crack down on slight imperfections, but that is an effort to control the danger in the sport. If Parkour turns into a sport that is scored, then it will turn into the same. Parkour should not turn itself into a regulated sport. There isn't the culture and camaraderie that there is in Parkour. Gymnastics is an individual sport, in which the modern day version (not Greek) ironically starting as a team building sport for Eastern European militaries
as a former gymnast, although as a child, most of the boys were expected to leave before they reached high-school age, and there were 0 dudes above the age of 15. most guys didn't have a passion for gymnastics, just a passion for flipping and stuff.
I think u hit the nail on the head with the point that gymnastics rules are too strict and limit creativity. Personally, I don't find many small aspects of parkour interesting such as a lot of just jumps and stuff, but I appreciate the fact that there are no creative bounds on the sport and that's probably just the POV of someone who is more interested in tricking than parkour so I respect the opinion
Just a quick insight from some who's done gymnastics for 16 years. Every 4 years they updates the rules and change routines as well as a list of all authorized tricks. Since gymnastics rise the rules have become more strict and the list of authorized tricks gets shorter. Some of the the changes make sense, but in the end mens gymnastics is really restrictive. Womens gymnastics has more freedom than mens, everything from routine design to types of allowable tricks.
Probably the most solid argument I’ve seen for the subject in a long time 👍
I would love to see a video with tips on how to find good spots in the future, because I struggle to find news ones and instead hang out at old spots which can get boring
Amazing video man
Sent this to my mom because she always says I do gymnastics after I go out training
As a gymnast my opinions may be a little subjectiv. But in this video you say that gymnastics has not evolved there past decads, well i would say that is wrong. In the rules departement it has evolved to become more boring, but some of the skills done today was thought imbossible 50 years ago. I think a problem is that a lot of instroctors is in an old mind set and they think there is only one way to learn gymnastics. But thank you for svinging light on this problem. Even dough it would have been nice if you tried to come up with some solutions.
Well, I'd claim that it's not gymnastics that evolved but the gymnasts. Gymnasts are stronger and more resilient now. But I feel the sport devolved. Less creativity now and the only avenue left to advance is just more twists, more flips. That's it
The ending of this video sums up the first 10 years of my life I didn’t want to do it I was forced down it as soon as I got my own say I quit n moved to freerunning it was torture and competitive level
Great video!! 👏👏😎😎 Very informative and so true!! 🤦🤷
All good info on gymnastics. Never knew about how strict it was. That’s actually why I love parkour and free running. Because it’s freeing.
I think the rules that are set in Gymnastics made it easier to assess the skills therefore easier to compare to others. However, it definitely limits a lot of other things coz it's bounded by rules. If they (maybe) open a creativity-driven category, that may save the sport (assuming they haven't).
On the contrary, this is why it's harder to judge a Parkour competition as there aren't strict black and white guidelines. It's too free and judging becomes subjective. It can also be the main reason why it's harder to get to IOC.
Both discipline/sports have fixes though :D
I couldn't agree with you more. I did gymnastics for about 4 years when I was younger and I finished because of that very reason. It was such a strict and uncreative environment.
The only reason I kept it up for so long was because we used to get to class 20mins early and "mess about" on the equipment and the mats before the real class would start. Basically doing gym parkour, we just didn't know thats what it was
3:59 The Thomas Flip (invented by Kurt Thomas) was banned from Olympics too. Too much risk they say. Nowadays Skateboarding and BMX is part of the Olympics. That`s logic...
Bruh, literally the reason I gave up Gymnastics and moved to PK was because after nearly 10 years of gymnastics, I started doing variations of the Thomas flip, and was told I couldn't because it was illegal. Literally responded with the biggest ??? on my face and transitioned to PK not long after.
Hi Jimmy love the content
It seemed to be too expensive for my family, while I could go outside and learn flips and do almost the same things in the streets
i love gymnastics, because of its diversity.
I don't think it's the rules for the competition behind it, but more the training style.
I was fortunate to have a fun team, who was going out after competitions, hanging out outside the training sessions etc.
It's maybe forbidden to do these moves in comps, but no one prohibits you to train them for yourself.
And same with parkour, training feels like a jam. If you're fortunate, your mates have more or less the same skill level and as soon as the first person gets the move, others will follow.
Training for me is a fun and friendly competition.
Just because it's old, it doesn't mean it has no justification to exist. You can't compare pears to apples (ballet still exists in spite of break dance). I agree that both should learn from each other
Nice one again brother! you are a present to the sport
Another excellent vid. Thanks.
i’m in a class, and i messed up my move and flowed into something else, i think something like a wall spin, and i was congratulated 😂
Hey Jimmy, you save me a lot of time 🙂
you are doing all they research that I would have done myself.
I should start sending you my wish list.
Greetings Sam
One misake I want to point out: Biles does the triple-double (triple-twisting double backflip), but the clip you use (for example at 15:50) is a simple full in (single twisting double backflip)
This is what I like about climbing as well. There are no style points. You are just given the challenge of getting to the last hold, and you get to do whatever moves or techniques you feel like to get there..
I do remember they always said the strict rules were there for the scoring, but then everyone always says the judges are a holes like in ice skating. They all have to do the same stuff so they can make sure the scores are all based off the same things. I dont know how you would make the scoring fair if everyone is doing differnt things. Maybe its also to ensure a standard of some kind. My cousins did gymnastics for decades. They were always so shredded. 6 pack abs and all that stuff. Me, i might as well wear a t-shirt that says i buy in bulk
Good work man!
You haven't even watched the video yet
mans probably watched at *2x times speed* of the video 🤣
@@unkn0wnf0revah56 i watched in 2x speed and I barely finished it 😂
I know that it's obvious most tricking passes would score poorly on a gymnastics judging panel, but I wonder just how badly it would score. If someone with experience judging gymnastics competitions could review a few clips from Shosei and Guthrie and put them side by side with some gymnastics clips with a breakdown of each score, I'd be more than happy to pay for that video
Love ur stuff
I stopped doing gymnastics when I aged-out of my local gym. I couldn't find any gyms that so much as had an open time when 18-year-olds could at least come practice
Great & interesting topic -loved it👍🏼
@11:11 is that bay area movement/ sessions in San jose?! Yo I think it is.
As a Swiss, looking over the pond as good as i can, i get the impression, that there is a lack of e.g. gymnastics clubs, which do it for the fun. Here in Switzerland a form of gymnastics is one of the biggest sports. We call it "Vereinsgeräteturnen" or VGT in short, basically club gymnastics. They have a bit a different rule set, so the extreme maneuvres like Simone Biles or Nikita Nagorny do, are not done. Because it's supposed to be a sport for everyone that wants. But don't get fooled into thinking they would be bad gymnasts.
There are some clubs which are very competitive, while others are doing it purely for the fun and care less about the results.
The biggest competition is every 6 years (smaller ones are every year), the Eidgenössisches Turnfest (federal gymnastics festival) where more or less all clubs in Switzerland compete in athletics, games and gymnastics. One part of the competition a club can choose is VGT.
With this system, the numbers of active athletes who atleast partly do gymnastics are incredibly high. Just in 2007 there were 56'000 competitors at the event, 2013 it was 60'000 and 2019 there were 69'000 people.
Just to show what this is all about, some clips in the links below. These are some of the best clubs in Switzerland.
th-cam.com/video/8eE_tgciRLw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/I1ZwJ0Rkg-Q/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/8VwDCSVL_Tw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/Gu8Wr7DF76k/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/yJG1oj2R5xw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/RuE5GMxI4jQ/w-d-xo.html
Simone Biles should defect to freerunning 😂
He is back with another video 🔥