The purpose of the vanes is to stabilize the bolt (arrow) in flight. An archer must experiment with straight fletched and helical . What is more effective for YOU? That’s how you tell. This post is excellent and this TH-cam channel is Outstanding!
Firstly, love the content! Secondly, I've learned alot watching your channel. It has gotten me prepared for my first crossbow deer hunt for this fall. Keep up the great videos.
Well, that cinches it; offset it is! Off to place my order for Spynal Tapps. Thanks, Rich, for putting in the time and effort to bring us these results.
This debate has been going on since I first started shooting arrows in 1968. The debate included feathers vs vanes on top of what was discussed here. Size also was included. Whatever you decide that you prefer, keep it consistent with all your arrows. Don't go with a mixed bag of fletching and stay consistent with your hunting arrow and practice arrows. Same fletch, same weight tips and same weight arrows as best as possible. Site in your bow with them. That is where you will find your best consistency. When we shot aluminum we sometimes numbered them so if we had a flier we could identify if it was operator error or an arrow that didn't fly as well. Sometimes the shaft had a slight bend, or insert wasn't straight, bad fletching, ........ Practice as your equipment is most likely more accurate and consistent than what you can hold without it.
Think you're videos are great rich, 👍 I run one degree offset after lots of trial and error testing and found my zombie slayers turned into lazers with this combo, all up weight of 450, grains, love shooting long range, target only in the UK, you probably wouldn't believe the groups I get on a windless day, my farmer friend who's land I shoot on stands open mouthed when he loos through my spotting scope, 😊 keep up the good work mate 👍
I spent over 20 years traveling back-and-forth across the pond. My ex “trouble & strife” was from Manchester. I know that bow hunting is not allowed. But I didn’t know crossbows were commonly used? Which part of the UK do you hail from? And what type of crossbow are you using? Thanks!
Thanks for showing us the way you fletch arrows and how accurate they can be. Now, I'm off to fix some of my arrows I've ruined over the years. Hopefully, you have the equipment noted in your gear page.
Okay, so I got something to add to this debate or whatever you want to call it. I purchased some better bolts, no idea that they came with helical vanes until I received them. And they have the shorter 3 incher vanes. Which is cool, wanted to try them. Now my regular arrows are 4 in vanes. I'm shooting both with 150 grand field tips and the same lighted Knox. But my old arrows weigh out at 460 g and the new ones weigh out at 475 g. Old ones are shooting 1 inch groups at 30 yd. New ones are shooting half inch or better at 30 yards. Grouping so tight in fact, I can only shoot two at a time or risk wasting bolts by shooting on top of each other. And they are consistently driving deeper into the target by at least 8 in. Now the old ones are on the bullseye. The new ones are 2 in high but dead nuts Center. You would think the newer ones being heavier, would shoot a tad lower. Now the only way I can figure out, on how to find out what's happening, is to deflich a couple new bolts, and refletch them straight. It's possible there might be some difference between the 3-in vanes in the 4-in vanes. Not sure? Anyways, found all this interesting if nothing else. Have any thoughts??? Let me know. I'll add to this experiment, (an experiment I didn't expect, lol), once I re-vane the new ones.
@@Deathbybunjie they are a better arrows. But you would expect them to shoot lower, being heavier. Not two inches or so higher. But yes, they are far superior arrows. 😊
Which makes me wonder if it's a spin drift issue more commonly associated with firearms. The faster the arrow/bolt travels, the faster it spins, and the more pronounced the spin drift effect becomes. Prior to the advent of the really fast-shooting modern crossbows, perhaps the effect remained below the threshold where it would effect trajectory. Helical could be used without issue. Now that crossbows speeds are reaching - or even exceeding - that threshold, the negative impact on arrow flight has become noticeable. Just spit-ballin'...
@@JohnDoe-zl6qw I agree I have purchased the ten point havoc 450 and they don’t recommend using fixed broad heads because of how fast it shoots so I agree the faster bows these days definitely affect arrow flight
QUESTION FOR ALL: When taking your Excalibur deer hunting, how many EXTRA bolts do you carry in the quiver? Iv'e been bringing a total of 3 (2 in the quiver) I make sure all 3 hit within 1/2" point of impact at my target distance so no guesswork needed. So far I never needed more than 1 bolt so I was thinking about not bringing the quiver for less bulk and less weight. Just curious what everyone is doing.
Out of a dozen black eagle executioners I had 3 or 4 that didn’t group with the others so unless you spine index them you won’t know if it’s the fletching or the shaft!
You did a great job there Rich. I do think that maybe at ~8:15 you may have voided the Bulldog target warranty. I don't think it covers rain damage🤔. LOL
think of air as a fluid, an arrow with helical vanes will have to puch thruu more air than the one with straight vanes. the arrow with helical vanes gets energy into it from the air which pushes it to rotate therefore energy is lost to the rotation which means the arror will be slower. look from back or front of arrow and you will see that the vanes becpomes a sort of sail since you can see a tiny area front/back which might make some turbulence behind the vanes. so the sail effect and turbulence will slow it down, how much i dont know i am not a ballistic calculus guy, but i am logical thinking one. you will get a tiny amount of stability because of rotation, but a faster arror no freaking way. if you had a pretty long vertical see thruu tube 2-5 meter (6-15feet) you can experiment to see that arrow with helical vanes will be slower falling thruu water. one could try this in a deeper swimming pool. if it not in a pool one can use dye to see the turbulense.
@@vfonte218 good point, with broadheads (and I say that in video) they should help. But my broadheads fly like fieldpoints (Swhacker mostly) so I don't need that "help." In my case, the helical didn't fly as well as my offsets on either crossbow, with fieldpoints even, so just not for me. I'm sure they have their place, though.
In 1964 in school wood shop class I made a crossbow with a trigger kit the teacher had ordered. The limb was a cut down leaf spring from a Chevy car. It had to had a cocking tool it was so strong. It would shoot a 1/4” steel rod thru a cinder block like nothing. It would easily pass thru a 2x4 piece of wood. I have no clue where it went. Wished I still had it to play with. I’m betting there are carbon arrows that can handle a bow like that
@@Deathbybunjie no way now. Liberals and liability stuff. That was back when kids carried pocket knives everywhere and there were rifles in gun racks in the pickup truck in the school parking lot. And a teacher or coach would knock the crap out of you for causing trouble. Good days are gone FOREVER
It would have been nice if you tested fixed blades as well. I know you dont shoot them, but you allready had bolts that were helical fletched that you could have tested with. That would have produced a more complete test and results for this video.
I understand that, but keep in mind I was really just trying to see how they worked with my gear. People will have to run their own tests with their own gear.
I put 4 degree plastic vanes on a crossbow arrow and shot it thru my old Jennings Devastator. I had attached a whisker biscuit to the riser. As the arrow passed thru the whisker biscuit, all three vanes ripped off and came down to earth like pieces of confetti. The now naked shaft proceeded into no man's land never to be seen again.
I can’t remember if I told you yet…my husband surprised me with a Excalibur Mag 340! 😃I’m liking it with the Charger I bought for it. I’ve heard the new C2 Lite is not quiet when in gear, so that’s why I got the Charger. I might change my mind later if the C2 Lite is lighter..haven’t been able to find the new one yet. A few questions..the Excal is a dealer bow so it’s got all the sound dampeners on it. The bow is a little heavy for me, so I’m thinking of having the shop take off the air breaks. I’ve read this will reduce the nose weigh by 1/2 #. Would it make much difference in sound suppression with these off? Or would I be better off leaving them on and build up my old lady muscles😂? Also if I decide to reflech some Rhino nock Excal quills, how do I get it to seat in my JoJan fleatcher? The fletcher is 25-30 yrs old from my days of building aluminum arrows for my vertical bows. Enjoying your second book. Thanks MW
Ext is the one for GKW 💯 I don't think the lite one is as sturdy. I think removing the dampeners changes the tone but probably not volume too much, I say go for it. As for the fletching, you might need a jig for fatter xbow arrows...I fletch with nock removed but its a crossbow arrow specific jig...
Nice shooting at that distance if you're only shooting targets and not hunting , I preferably like to keep it safe! And keeping it at 40yards,,, just my opinion .
I have done quite a bit of testing with my lab radar chronograph. I can take 5 velocity reading out to 100 yards. There really isn’t much difference in velocity decay between varying degrees of offset. I have not tested helical fletched arrows. More offset seems to buck the wind better. I used to have a Deathstalker, the semi-rail less design is sensitive to cocking. You can influence the point of impact left or right by not cocking it evenly. I am guessing that is where your flier came from.
50% of them hit off to the right though, I did put that in the video where the fourth shot that I took just to make sure was actually as bad as the first shot LOL plus if it was a cocking problem the chances of that happening would have happened just as likely in one of the four offset shots I would think. It doesn't seem likely that it would have happened twice in four shots with the helicals but zero times in the same four shots with the offsets...
@@Deathbybunjie I think that was spin drift but it is weird not on ever arrow ?I get spin drift consistent enough to dope for it but I shoot aluminums still at 3D.(aluminums pull out of 18-1 target like butter)
I think the helical will shoot to the right the longer the shot. If you look at a prop on a boat motor and take your hands off the wheel it wants to steer right, same concept with the helical. Or at least that’s what I think
I'm assuming the tournament archers you are referring to us recurve... When it comes to helical, you are entering the compound bow world... Not mentioned was the left and right helical... Limb tiller and also the direction of string twist must be considered as well. Carry-on
No, I was talking about the compound guys. I don't follow it at all but Levi Morgan does use helical I think but a lot of the other guys don't. There's no consensus it seems.
Since the Blazer vanes are so short I’m guessing there shouldn’t be an issue with rail clearance. At least there doesn’t seem to be with my Excalibur micro 340. Since I shoot broadheads I want the most steerage I can get from my fletching, and I’m finding that on the Wyvern Creations Black Eagles I’ve tested thus far my 125g Magnus Black Hornets Ser Razors are flying just as good as with field points, at least out to 50 yds. Only thing left for me to do with these arrows is to number the vanes and start logging my shots since they’re not spine indexed. I’m still getting an occasional flyer. So far it hasn’t been any with my test Magnus head on, so I don’t know if it’s because of my head position with my progressive lens eyeglasses, or a spine issue.
Also shoot mag 340 with blazers.. Right helical and you can see inside rail where fletching touch the rail.. Now i prepare New arrows with 4 " straight vanes.. Will see how they fly
@@dryflyonly1 yes, I know there’s a little vane/rail contact but yet not convinced that’s what’s contributing to my flyers, especially since I’m shooting flat nocks. I absolutely can see how a half moon nock with lots of helical could end up inconsistent pressure on one of the vanes but who knows? Maybe it can occasionally even be an issue with flat nocks, but I won’t know until I number and test all my vane positions. I’m getting some really great shots with my my Magnus head and I figure Wyvern Creations knows his stuff. I do wish Black Eagle shafts were spine indexed like Victory Archery shafts are, though.
@@Deathbybunjie that’s where I was going to get them haha. But they are one of the websites that don’t attach fletching. They say for the whole build experience that they don’t attach them.
The stock zombies I get have the offset already stock. And you know I shoot big fixed broadheads and they shoot great. Don’t think we want helicoil vanes. I know I don’t. Tried em on my coumpound too and went back to offset on those too.
Yeah I'm off for changing things when it makes it better but if it doesn't make it better, then I'll stick with the offset too. Good luck down there George!
hey Rich I've trying to find information ona crank cocker, I have a axium like you would they fit them older axiom, I've got bad shoulders hard to cock with the rope cocker, thanks enjoy your segments
If it does fit the Axiom then it is going to need modifications but I don't think the modifications are all that hard to do. Call Excalibur and ask them. That is absolutely the best thing to do. They will sell you the right crank right over the phone. Good luck!
@@trevorsecord6854 I wouldn't hesitate to shoot 4 fletched arrows with my compound bow, but I wouldn't do that with a crossbow. As one fletch is going down the center groove of the rail, I want the other two fletchings to be angled away from it. Three accomplish that better than four.
No noticeable difference to me but if I had to guess, if I did some kind of scientific test, I would expect the helical to be slightly louder. It catches more air, so it is doing more, and that probably translates into more sound. But I bet it's not much difference. Also, if I had to guess, the type of vane that is used probably has more to do with sound than the style in which it is applied if that makes any sense. That's my thoughts anyway.
It's akin to the spin of a bullet. Spinning a bullet too fast can cause accuracy issues, just as spinning too slow. Modern bows shoot faster, as such create more spin with less offset or helix. A much heavier, slower bolt will likely require more offset or helix to get the bolt to spin at a higher rpm. But, your probably talking in the range of going 240-250 fps or slower.
helical fletched arrows will be more accurate IF using fized blade broadheads. "tournament archers" use field tips NOT requiring the stabilization of the hunter that chooses to use fixed blade broadheads.
A good question, the answer is yes, if I didn't show it in this video, it's the same setup I use in every other video. For the rest I use a bog death grip tripod or a Caldwell Deadshot field pod depending on the crossbow.
@@Deathbybunjie No hiding from that 1/16" on the timing cables, is it 'good enough'? Maybe your/we're seeing that these modern high speed crossbows are too critical on setup?
@@sickgit66 it's not hard to fix the 1/16th though, just a twist. Takes 1 minute LOL But yeah there are tradeoffs, modern speeds require modern solutions...
Crossbows are not archery, their crossbows. Helical vanes on a xbow are dumb. I like the channel. I love xbows. I would not own your bows. Get a R10 and move on😂
Where did you get the no tread vanes?
amzn.to/3QU3YbC
Wish they had 'em in all colors LOL
The purpose of the vanes is to stabilize the bolt (arrow) in flight. An archer must experiment with straight fletched and helical . What is more effective for YOU? That’s how you tell.
This post is excellent and this TH-cam channel is Outstanding!
Firstly, love the content! Secondly, I've learned alot watching your channel. It has gotten me prepared for my first crossbow deer hunt for this fall. Keep up the great videos.
Thanks for this, and good luck!
Well, that cinches it; offset it is! Off to place my order for Spynal Tapps. Thanks, Rich, for putting in the time and effort to bring us these results.
I can't swear they're better on every crossbow of course but on my older slower and newer faster it was offset IMO GOOD LUCK WITH THE TAPPS OH YEAH!
One of the best hunting channels out there been watching for years keep it up!
Well thank you very much!
That Scorpyd is a sweet bow! Just got a mission sub 1 and it a tack driver too!
Very impressed with the OB at 20 & 60 yards with the offset vanes.
This debate has been going on since I first started shooting arrows in 1968. The debate included feathers vs vanes on top of what was discussed here. Size also was included. Whatever you decide that you prefer, keep it consistent with all your arrows. Don't go with a mixed bag of fletching and stay consistent with your hunting arrow and practice arrows. Same fletch, same weight tips and same weight arrows as best as possible. Site in your bow with them. That is where you will find your best consistency. When we shot aluminum we sometimes numbered them so if we had a flier we could identify if it was operator error or an arrow that didn't fly as well. Sometimes the shaft had a slight bend, or insert wasn't straight, bad fletching, ........ Practice as your equipment is most likely more accurate and consistent than what you can hold without it.
Great point, consistency and practice
Excellent job Guy's. Getting Ready
Think you're videos are great rich, 👍 I run one degree offset after lots of trial and error testing and found my zombie slayers turned into lazers with this combo, all up weight of 450, grains, love shooting long range, target only in the UK, you probably wouldn't believe the groups I get on a windless day, my farmer friend who's land I shoot on stands open mouthed when he loos through my spotting scope, 😊 keep up the good work mate 👍
I spent over 20 years traveling back-and-forth across the pond. My ex “trouble & strife” was from Manchester. I know that bow hunting is not allowed. But I didn’t know crossbows were commonly used? Which part of the UK do you hail from? And what type of crossbow are you using? Thanks!
Derbyshire, ek 410, 👍
Years ago I would have my Compound set up with Helical Fletches back then we didn`t use Plastic Vanes like you see today on Arrows. Enjoyed it Rich.
Very informative... I can hardly wait for the season opener.
Thanks same here, good luck!
So crazy I just did mine yesterday morning and I wasn't sure about rubbing the rail...I had no problem what so ever.!
Learned a lot Rich, and loved the spiral bound journal! The final statistics will tell the story well! nice video
Yeah that journal's pretty sweet...you should get one 🤣🤣
@@Deathbybunjiemy journal is on my phone and in the cloud 😃
Thanks for showing us the way you fletch arrows and how accurate they can be. Now, I'm off to fix some of my arrows I've ruined over the years. Hopefully, you have the equipment noted in your gear page.
Thanks for data brother bungi
Very cool Rich! Great job 👍
Okay, so I got something to add to this debate or whatever you want to call it. I purchased some better bolts, no idea that they came with helical vanes until I received them. And they have the shorter 3 incher vanes. Which is cool, wanted to try them. Now my regular arrows are 4 in vanes. I'm shooting both with 150 grand field tips and the same lighted Knox. But my old arrows weigh out at 460 g and the new ones weigh out at 475 g. Old ones are shooting 1 inch groups at 30 yd. New ones are shooting half inch or better at 30 yards. Grouping so tight in fact, I can only shoot two at a time or risk wasting bolts by shooting on top of each other. And they are consistently driving deeper into the target by at least 8 in. Now the old ones are on the bullseye. The new ones are 2 in high but dead nuts Center. You would think the newer ones being heavier, would shoot a tad lower.
Now the only way I can figure out, on how to find out what's happening, is to deflich a couple new bolts, and refletch them straight. It's possible there might be some difference between the 3-in vanes in the 4-in vanes. Not sure? Anyways, found all this interesting if nothing else. Have any thoughts??? Let me know. I'll add to this experiment, (an experiment I didn't expect, lol), once I re-vane the new ones.
The new ones could simply be better arrows, maybe? Straighter, more consistent, etc.
@@Deathbybunjie they are a better arrows. But you would expect them to shoot lower, being heavier. Not two inches or so higher. But yes, they are far superior arrows. 😊
Lol i got the same blazer vanes and i also order both your books. The Helicals look great on bolts.
Great info! I like the more aggressive helical for a bow but crossbow just a few degrees offset works well! Nice video!
Which makes me wonder if it's a spin drift issue more commonly associated with firearms. The faster the arrow/bolt travels, the faster it spins, and the more pronounced the spin drift effect becomes.
Prior to the advent of the really fast-shooting modern crossbows, perhaps the effect remained below the threshold where it would effect trajectory. Helical could be used without issue. Now that crossbows speeds are reaching - or even exceeding - that threshold, the negative impact on arrow flight has become noticeable.
Just spit-ballin'...
@@JohnDoe-zl6qw I agree I have purchased the ten point havoc 450 and they don’t recommend using fixed broad heads because of how fast it shoots so I agree the faster bows these days definitely affect arrow flight
QUESTION FOR ALL: When taking your Excalibur deer hunting, how many EXTRA bolts do you carry in the quiver?
Iv'e been bringing a total of 3 (2 in the quiver) I make sure all 3 hit within 1/2" point of impact at my target distance so no guesswork needed.
So far I never needed more than 1 bolt so I was thinking about not bringing the quiver for less bulk and less weight.
Just curious what everyone is doing.
I think tomorrow's video will answer that question on our end!
@@Deathbybunjie Looking forward to it!
BTW im rockin an Excalibur 330 and it's been awesome!
Out of a dozen black eagle executioners I had 3 or 4 that didn’t group with the others so unless you spine index them you won’t know if it’s the fletching or the shaft!
Offset wasn't spine indexed either, but it cant fly better than 0" group at 60 yards...
You did a great job there Rich. I do think that maybe at ~8:15 you may have voided the Bulldog target warranty. I don't think it covers rain damage🤔. LOL
🤣😅
think of air as a fluid, an arrow with helical vanes will have to puch thruu more air than the one with straight vanes. the arrow with helical vanes gets energy into it from the air which pushes it to rotate therefore energy is lost to the rotation which means the arror will be slower. look from back or front of arrow and you will see that the vanes becpomes a sort of sail since you can see a tiny area front/back which might make some turbulence behind the vanes. so the sail effect and turbulence will slow it down, how much i dont know i am not a ballistic calculus guy, but i am logical thinking one. you will get a tiny amount of stability because of rotation, but a faster arror no freaking way. if you had a pretty long vertical see thruu tube 2-5 meter (6-15feet) you can experiment to see that arrow with helical vanes will be slower falling thruu water. one could try this in a deeper swimming pool. if it not in a pool one can use dye to see the turbulense.
Any degree of offset is beneficial in the flight of an arrow or bolt. Spin creates great flight and accuracy.
Except they were less accurate lol
With broadheads?
@@vfonte218 good point, with broadheads (and I say that in video) they should help. But my broadheads fly like fieldpoints (Swhacker mostly) so I don't need that "help." In my case, the helical didn't fly as well as my offsets on either crossbow, with fieldpoints even, so just not for me. I'm sure they have their place, though.
In 1964 in school wood shop class I made a crossbow with a trigger kit the teacher had ordered. The limb was a cut down leaf spring from a Chevy car. It had to had a cocking tool it was so strong. It would shoot a 1/4” steel rod thru a cinder block like nothing. It would easily pass thru a 2x4 piece of wood. I have no clue where it went. Wished I still had it to play with. I’m betting there are carbon arrows that can handle a bow like that
I bet they can't build that in school these days!
@@Deathbybunjie no way now. Liberals and liability stuff. That was back when kids carried pocket knives everywhere and there were rifles in gun racks in the pickup truck in the school parking lot. And a teacher or coach would knock the crap out of you for causing trouble. Good days are gone FOREVER
It would have been nice if you tested fixed blades as well. I know you dont shoot them, but you allready had bolts that were helical fletched that you could have tested with. That would have produced a more complete test and results for this video.
I understand that, but keep in mind I was really just trying to see how they worked with my gear. People will have to run their own tests with their own gear.
I put 4 degree plastic vanes on a crossbow arrow and shot it thru my old Jennings Devastator. I had attached a whisker biscuit to the riser. As the arrow passed thru the whisker biscuit, all three vanes ripped off and came down to earth like pieces of confetti. The now naked shaft proceeded into no man's land never to be seen again.
Wow thats nuts, I laughed out loud on that, thanks for sharing, made my morning
Totally not laughing AT you of course, but it's just the best answer to a question ever: did it work? Hard NO lol
I can’t remember if I told you yet…my husband surprised me with a Excalibur Mag 340! 😃I’m liking it with the Charger I bought for it. I’ve heard the new C2 Lite is not quiet when in gear, so that’s why I got the Charger. I might change my mind later if the C2 Lite is lighter..haven’t been able to find the new one yet. A few questions..the Excal is a dealer bow so it’s got all the sound dampeners on it. The bow is a little heavy for me, so I’m thinking of having the shop take off the air breaks. I’ve read this will reduce the nose weigh by 1/2 #. Would it make much difference in sound suppression with these off? Or would I be better off leaving them on and build up my old lady muscles😂?
Also if I decide to reflech some Rhino nock Excal quills, how do I get it to seat in my JoJan fleatcher? The fletcher is 25-30 yrs old from my days of building aluminum arrows for my vertical bows.
Enjoying your second book. Thanks MW
Ext is the one for GKW 💯 I don't think the lite one is as sturdy. I think removing the dampeners changes the tone but probably not volume too much, I say go for it. As for the fletching, you might need a jig for fatter xbow arrows...I fletch with nock removed but its a crossbow arrow specific jig...
But overall congrats on the 340, that'll go down as one of Excalibur's all time greats I think. Good luck!
Can you recommend a crossbow specific jig?
Thanks
@@mwallace6540 sorry but I can't, I've never gotten into those at least not yet we'll see
Nice shooting at that distance if you're only shooting targets and not hunting , I preferably like to keep it safe! And keeping it at 40yards,,, just my opinion .
We won't be taking 60 yard shots on deer, don't worry!
I like your videos. But where are you going? I can shoot my R10, with Ravin bolts, all day Long, without any issues. What's the point?
Okay...
I have done quite a bit of testing with my lab radar chronograph. I can take 5 velocity reading out to 100 yards. There really isn’t much difference in velocity decay between varying degrees of offset. I have not tested helical fletched arrows. More offset seems to buck the wind better. I used to have a Deathstalker, the semi-rail less design is sensitive to cocking. You can influence the point of impact left or right by not cocking it evenly. I am guessing that is where your flier came from.
50% of them hit off to the right though, I did put that in the video where the fourth shot that I took just to make sure was actually as bad as the first shot LOL plus if it was a cocking problem the chances of that happening would have happened just as likely in one of the four offset shots I would think. It doesn't seem likely that it would have happened twice in four shots with the helicals but zero times in the same four shots with the offsets...
@@Deathbybunjie I think that was spin drift but it is weird not on ever arrow ?I get spin drift consistent enough to dope for it but I shoot aluminums still at 3D.(aluminums pull out of 18-1 target like butter)
I think the helical will shoot to the right the longer the shot. If you look at a prop on a boat motor and take your hands off the wheel it wants to steer right, same concept with the helical. Or at least that’s what I think
Interesting! I've sure had that with a boat 😄
So they basically hit the same POA!
Interesting, yes, but they didn't hold consistently from one shot to the next as well with the helicals for me.
I'm assuming the tournament archers you are referring to us recurve... When it comes to helical, you are entering the compound bow world... Not mentioned was the left and right helical... Limb tiller and also the direction of string twist must be considered as well. Carry-on
No, I was talking about the compound guys. I don't follow it at all but Levi Morgan does use helical I think but a lot of the other guys don't. There's no consensus it seems.
to straighten crinkled vanes try heat.like a hair dryer or something hotter lol
Maybe if you are shooting fixed blades you might benefit
lol. i went helix accept and keel show back in the day.🤘🤘🤘
Oh man that's old school right there!
@@Deathbybunjie guessing we both know a little old school. don't forget to stop in at dysarts next time you go to Maine. peace and Bunjie
What size vanes and bolts you use with your axiom? Also what brand vanes?
th-cam.com/video/A4W4x_zxtrE/w-d-xo.html
That video shows this year's pick. I like Blazer vanes, too. Thanks for watching!
@@Deathbybunjie thank you buddy
Since the Blazer vanes are so short I’m guessing there shouldn’t be an issue with rail clearance. At least there doesn’t seem to be with my Excalibur micro 340. Since I shoot broadheads I want the most steerage I can get from my fletching, and I’m finding that on the Wyvern Creations Black Eagles I’ve tested thus far my 125g Magnus Black Hornets Ser Razors are flying just as good as with field points, at least out to 50 yds. Only thing left for me to do with these arrows is to number the vanes and start logging my shots since they’re not spine indexed. I’m still getting an occasional flyer. So far it hasn’t been any with my test Magnus head on, so I don’t know if it’s because of my head position with my progressive lens eyeglasses, or a spine issue.
Also shoot mag 340 with blazers.. Right helical and you can see inside rail where fletching touch the rail.. Now i prepare New arrows with 4 " straight vanes.. Will see how they fly
@@dryflyonly1 yes, I know there’s a little vane/rail contact but yet not convinced that’s what’s contributing to my flyers, especially since I’m shooting flat nocks. I absolutely can see how a half moon nock with lots of helical could end up inconsistent pressure on one of the vanes but who knows? Maybe it can occasionally even be an issue with flat nocks, but I won’t know until I number and test all my vane positions. I’m getting some really great shots with my my Magnus head and I figure Wyvern Creations knows his stuff. I do wish Black Eagle shafts were spine indexed like Victory Archery shafts are, though.
Where did you order the arrow with vanes on them. Only place I can find these you gotta put everything on your self
Wyvern Creations, good folks
@@Deathbybunjie that’s where I was going to get them haha. But they are one of the websites that don’t attach fletching. They say for the whole build experience that they don’t attach them.
@@willdungeon7633 I didn't know they sold without fletchings...all mine came with...
@@Deathbybunjie yeah I was checking out their page further that have both options when you scroll through their categories. I finally figured it out.
The bolts I’m using this season have helical, and it rubs both sides of my vein channel. 0 change in accuracy for me.
That's great to hear, good luck!
The stock zombies I get have the offset already stock. And you know I shoot big fixed broadheads and they shoot great. Don’t think we want helicoil vanes. I know I don’t. Tried em on my coumpound too and went back to offset on those too.
Yeah I'm off for changing things when it makes it better but if it doesn't make it better, then I'll stick with the offset too. Good luck down there George!
hey Rich I've trying to find information ona crank cocker, I have a axium like you would they fit them older axiom, I've got bad shoulders hard to cock with the rope cocker, thanks enjoy your segments
If it does fit the Axiom then it is going to need modifications but I don't think the modifications are all that hard to do. Call Excalibur and ask them. That is absolutely the best thing to do. They will sell you the right crank right over the phone. Good luck!
@@Deathbybunjie thanks Rich I will!! thanks for taking time to answer me
so you like the helical veins and are going to hunt with them? No problems with neighbors as you're shooting within 300 feet of them?
I think they're interesting but offset shoots better on my crossbows....
@@Deathbybunjie got ya
Some shoot four fletch think depends more on the broadhead meant to be used.
@@trevorsecord6854 I wouldn't hesitate to shoot 4 fletched arrows with my compound bow, but I wouldn't do that with a crossbow. As one fletch is going down the center groove of the rail, I want the other two fletchings to be angled away from it. Three accomplish that better than four.
Any noise difference with helical vs 1 degree offset?
No noticeable difference to me but if I had to guess, if I did some kind of scientific test, I would expect the helical to be slightly louder. It catches more air, so it is doing more, and that probably translates into more sound. But I bet it's not much difference. Also, if I had to guess, the type of vane that is used probably has more to do with sound than the style in which it is applied if that makes any sense. That's my thoughts anyway.
Haha i do remenber helix !
R O C K Y O U !!! LOL
It's akin to the spin of a bullet. Spinning a bullet too fast can cause accuracy issues, just as spinning too slow. Modern bows shoot faster, as such create more spin with less offset or helix. A much heavier, slower bolt will likely require more offset or helix to get the bolt to spin at a higher rpm. But, your probably talking in the range of going 240-250 fps or slower.
Very interesting that makes sense to me!
helical fletched arrows will be more accurate IF using fized blade broadheads. "tournament archers" use field tips NOT requiring the stabilization of the hunter that chooses to use fixed blade broadheads.
They still make fixed blades? Lol
Are you shooting from a stable platform? That’s not in the video
A good question, the answer is yes, if I didn't show it in this video, it's the same setup I use in every other video. For the rest I use a bog death grip tripod or a Caldwell Deadshot field pod depending on the crossbow.
The neighbor kid was shooting his crossbow shirtless and somehow got his nipple ring caught in the string upon firing. Don’t shoot with no shirt rich!
Lol I won't have that problem haha
I would be curious to see a group without fletching.
That would be neat. My money would be on Bunjie, since that crossbow seems to be pretty content either way haha
C'mon Rich, the natural follow up to this test is a bareshaft!!!!!
Indeed 😆
@@Deathbybunjie No hiding from that 1/16" on the timing cables, is it 'good enough'?
Maybe your/we're seeing that these modern high speed crossbows are too critical on setup?
@@sickgit66 it's not hard to fix the 1/16th though, just a twist. Takes 1 minute LOL But yeah there are tradeoffs, modern speeds require modern solutions...
Crossbows are not archery, their crossbows. Helical vanes on a xbow are dumb. I like the channel. I love xbows. I would not own your bows. Get a R10 and move on😂
Well, okay!
Helical games are much noisier than straight fletch!
First
Oh yeah 😎
All hail helicals? LOL
Lol not for me haha