Edit: Preview Notes for the follow-up patch are out en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/132961-june-27-balance-follow-ups/ I'm not making a reaction / reading for these, but I may do another rundown like this one...maybe..depends on if I have time. It likely won't fix everything, but there's a kit if steps in the correct direction. (Almost like I predicted) To pre-empt some comments about various new build's performance, like Scourge, QuickZerker etc. I already know about the problems but the vast majority fixed with simple numbers changes. Imo the job of the big quarterly patches is to shake things up and introduce new design choices / build options, while the follow-up patch(es) exist to clean up the mess and fix the numbers. Whatever doesn't get fixed on the 18th, that's what you can get upset about. Until then it's the time to play with the new toys and watch the dust settle.
This has been my take as well. I really enjoy the new changes and the direction they are going but they were really stingy with numbers. I think finally giving build more options that can be balanced more easily is much more healthy for the game long term and I'm excited for the future!
True to a certain point, but missing the numbers way off doesn't really inspire something to be confident about in the future. More like serious lack of oversight.
ANet's never been good at eyeballing numbers or benching stuff internaly. It's happened many times before and it will continue to happen. They kinda rely on the mass testing and feedback of players to actually narrow this stuff down. As long as they fix it in a reasonable amount of time I don't have a problem with it
IMO, I love the Herald quickness change. The rotation now very similarly follows Alacrity Renegade. Whatever legend you are in, pop up your energy drainer and use weapon skills. This usually ends up with your energy being nearly gone and the legend swap is ready, its very smooth. Even better than Alacren because doing quickness doesn't drain massive energy in one go like doing Alacrity does.
the 8 sec shade nerf from what i heard was the dev saying they didnt want 3 of them up giving alac but whats funny to me is if you dont trait for it. its just a straight up nerf with no reason at that point lmao. i dont understand if thats what they wanted for that trait why not put it in the trait and not hurt other builds?
Those Druid changes are awful. It feels like these are numbers they worked out on a spreadsheet instead of implementing them in a play test. Even in an ideal setting where there's no damage, it is such a chore to reach the alacrity uptime I could with three spirits. It also limits your healing because you need to use celestial avatar as your source of alacrity instead of a source of healing, giving you much less flexibility overall that you had with the spirits. HAM just blows it out of the water now.
@@MarenAlu It's not a simple numbers problem. Grace of the Land is anti-synergy with healing and dps. It's a mechanic problem. Even if the ALAC duration was doubled it doesn't change the fact you have to spam CA skills on CD when they're supposed to be used as reactive support/heals for dangerous situations. Grace of the Land sharing a slot with Eclipse is also a big problem. It functionally makes it so if you choose to be ALAC druid you won't be a good support or dps.
I can the argument for druid, but you also still have all of Staff and all of your utility skills. Using your profession mechanic for boonupkeep was common even before this, it's the same thing Mech does. As for Alac DPS: They are supposed to loose a lot of damage compared to their full dps counterparts. That's by design and the case for all previous AlacDPS builds (currently broken stuff not withstanding). You still get the other two traits and a fully functioning core-Ranger dps setup. Beyond that it's speculating on the hypothetical damage numbers of a build, resulting from a hypothetical change, when we don't even have a current meta build or benchmark. Which is just silly.
@@MarenAlu Grace of the land shares a trait slot with Eclipse. If you take ALAC you are forced to CA on cooldown and spam skills which don't do any dmg at all. You'd be literally out-dpsed by a full celestial gear druid without ALAC. To call it "ALAC DPS" is a joke. Taking Grace of the land makes you not a viable support healer or dpser. It's not a viable option.
Well you're not a viable support without it that's for sure. And remember you still apply bleed on cc / immobe from Blood Moon (which applies to CA 3 & 5) and on hit from sharpened edges, so "no damage" is just blatantly untrue. It's not uncommon for Alac DPS to sacrafice upwards of 7k dps for the abiltiy to do Alac (that's what CondiRen is at right now). And if the numbers are to low, then you just buff Blood Moon and everything's fine
I actually like the Herald change a lot. I play quite a bit of Ren, but haven't gotten into Boon Herald since I didnt enjoy the spam. The new version actually makes it quite similar to power (alac) ren but also opens up other possibilities. While Glint seems to actually have came on top dps-wise based on updated Snowcrows build I imagine that switching to Jalis for stab over other boons or even to Ventari while still being able to keep Shiro is going to help the build immensely. Should also help condi quick herald that can't really give up Mallyx without not working at all. And sure, you're kinda forced into rhythmic stance changes, but that's Rev for you. Not really unlike being forced into weapon changes on other classes, is it?
Quick heal herald feels horrible to play now, I hate having to drain all my energy and spam swap legends to upkeep my teams boons the old spamming of utilitys was much more comfortable.
@@tbone9474 I started playing with the release of PoF and I can't remember an instanced content situation where spamming isn't the answer (maybe just stab is situational)
@themooniscoming well rotations are always important for any MMO (except dnd online) but how can they defend popping stability and a rez as part of a normal rotation? Ridiculous
Chrono can upkeeep perma alscnor quick just by chancing the trait and nothing else. 0% extra boon duration. No shield. No utility chance. And No Continum split 😂
Yeah that's pretty nice, but it's not the only thing a SupportDPS needs. It's one of the reason you hardly see AlacWillbender. Chrono has no sources of Fury, Might or Protection making both AlacChrono and QuickChrono incompatible with many healpartners.
@@MarenAlu Chronomancer can pair with following healers: Mechanist, Tempest, Druid, Renegade and Catalyst. Firebrand, Herald, Scrapper, Harbinger, Scourge and Specter are missing 25 might and/or protection. Harbinger suffers the same problem as Chronomancer, only quickness and fury. Offensive support and Defensive support must provide: Alacrity, Quickness, 25might, fury, regen and protection. -Healer usually provides Healing, Regeneration and Protection. -Alacrity usually provides Alacrity, 25 might and Fury. -Quickness usually provides Quickness. Othre boons are quality of life and you look for specific healer/dps to get them.
I suppose that's true, the Quickness version is positioned better than I thought. Scourge got other problems rn and I totally forgot that they gave Ren a proper Fury source. Though most QDPSes either provide fury or have the option to do so, which takes a lot of pressure from most AlacHealer not named Druid. It's just AlacChrono that really can't keep up. If Cata is it's only viable partner, then it might as well not exist.
Just FYI, Dueling minor grandmaster trait gives fury (4sec) to nearby allies when you crit (8sec cd). You can also go runes of the pack to generate fury and some extra might. Chrono's shield skills also give protection (2.5 secs x2) Chrono also has some good ways to apply aegis which I feel balances out or can be situationally better than protection. With both the well of precognition providing 3 instances of aegis and mantra of concentration providing aegis (5sec) and 3 instances of stability (11 sec perma stability) Giving you two more options if needed.
Even if using Pack Runes you will not get to 100% fury uptime, you'd need to invest in additional concentration further compromising the damage you're already giving up for the runes. Similarly shield is 5 seconds per dual cast (which is long to begin with), even with CS, Ether Signet and Improved Alacrity this can't keep uptime on it's own. Not to mention that it's a 240 radius around the phantasm (not around you), making it very easy to just miss people without being able to do anythign about it. If these were improved or added to, that would be a great fix, but as is they are unfortunatly not enough. Chrono's general utility is amazing though, so I can see the Quickness Version being played for that benefit alone.
I mean, solid. There's not really a profession that's bad in its entirety and role diversity may be broader than ever. There's a couple things that are very over or undertuned as a result of the patch, but that's unlikely to stick around for long. That tends to happen with summer balance patches. If you want to know anything more, you'll have to be a bit more specific
I've been maining mesmer since launch. Chrono is probably in the best state it's ever been, and much simpler and more straight forward than previous renditions. Still continuem shift is the hardest learning curve in the game. Mirage is a little nerfed but it's extremely simple and low apm make it a good introduction style with large returns for the low investment. Virtuoso is just great, insane self sustain with a strong mix of condition and power dmg.
Edit: Preview Notes for the follow-up patch are out
en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/132961-june-27-balance-follow-ups/
I'm not making a reaction / reading for these, but I may do another rundown like this one...maybe..depends on if I have time.
It likely won't fix everything, but there's a kit if steps in the correct direction. (Almost like I predicted)
To pre-empt some comments about various new build's performance, like Scourge, QuickZerker etc.
I already know about the problems but the vast majority fixed with simple numbers changes.
Imo the job of the big quarterly patches is to shake things up and introduce new design choices / build options, while the follow-up patch(es) exist to clean up the mess and fix the numbers.
Whatever doesn't get fixed on the 18th, that's what you can get upset about. Until then it's the time to play with the new toys and watch the dust settle.
This has been my take as well. I really enjoy the new changes and the direction they are going but they were really stingy with numbers. I think finally giving build more options that can be balanced more easily is much more healthy for the game long term and I'm excited for the future!
True to a certain point, but missing the numbers way off doesn't really inspire something to be confident about in the future. More like serious lack of oversight.
@@jordy3490 yeah Druid I think might have had it the worst lol. Basically just worse spirits
ANet's never been good at eyeballing numbers or benching stuff internaly. It's happened many times before and it will continue to happen. They kinda rely on the mass testing and feedback of players to actually narrow this stuff down. As long as they fix it in a reasonable amount of time I don't have a problem with it
I never comment on TH-cam videos, but I want to say that I(and I’m sure many others) appreciate your efforts and insight! Keep it up 👍
IMO, I love the Herald quickness change. The rotation now very similarly follows Alacrity Renegade. Whatever legend you are in, pop up your energy drainer and use weapon skills. This usually ends up with your energy being nearly gone and the legend swap is ready, its very smooth. Even better than Alacren because doing quickness doesn't drain massive energy in one go like doing Alacrity does.
Well I'm glad some people are enjoying it. As I said my anti-revenant bias is most definitely at play here
the 8 sec shade nerf from what i heard was the dev saying they didnt want 3 of them up giving alac but whats funny to me is if you dont trait for it. its just a straight up nerf with no reason at that point lmao. i dont understand if thats what they wanted for that trait why not put it in the trait and not hurt other builds?
Those Druid changes are awful. It feels like these are numbers they worked out on a spreadsheet instead of implementing them in a play test. Even in an ideal setting where there's no damage, it is such a chore to reach the alacrity uptime I could with three spirits. It also limits your healing because you need to use celestial avatar as your source of alacrity instead of a source of healing, giving you much less flexibility overall that you had with the spirits. HAM just blows it out of the water now.
Yeah it's really unfortunate, but that's a very simple numbers change so there's a very good chance they'll be addressed in the follow-up patch.
@@MarenAlu It's not a simple numbers problem. Grace of the Land is anti-synergy with healing and dps. It's a mechanic problem. Even if the ALAC duration was doubled it doesn't change the fact you have to spam CA skills on CD when they're supposed to be used as reactive support/heals for dangerous situations. Grace of the Land sharing a slot with Eclipse is also a big problem. It functionally makes it so if you choose to be ALAC druid you won't be a good support or dps.
I can the argument for druid, but you also still have all of Staff and all of your utility skills. Using your profession mechanic for boonupkeep was common even before this, it's the same thing Mech does.
As for Alac DPS: They are supposed to loose a lot of damage compared to their full dps counterparts. That's by design and the case for all previous AlacDPS builds (currently broken stuff not withstanding). You still get the other two traits and a fully functioning core-Ranger dps setup. Beyond that it's speculating on the hypothetical damage numbers of a build, resulting from a hypothetical change, when we don't even have a current meta build or benchmark. Which is just silly.
@@MarenAlu Grace of the land shares a trait slot with Eclipse. If you take ALAC you are forced to CA on cooldown and spam skills which don't do any dmg at all. You'd be literally out-dpsed by a full celestial gear druid without ALAC. To call it "ALAC DPS" is a joke.
Taking Grace of the land makes you not a viable support healer or dpser. It's not a viable option.
Well you're not a viable support without it that's for sure. And remember you still apply bleed on cc / immobe from Blood Moon (which applies to CA 3 & 5) and on hit from sharpened edges, so "no damage" is just blatantly untrue.
It's not uncommon for Alac DPS to sacrafice upwards of 7k dps for the abiltiy to do Alac (that's what CondiRen is at right now). And if the numbers are to low, then you just buff Blood Moon and everything's fine
I actually like the Herald change a lot. I play quite a bit of Ren, but haven't gotten into Boon Herald since I didnt enjoy the spam. The new version actually makes it quite similar to power (alac) ren but also opens up other possibilities. While Glint seems to actually have came on top dps-wise based on updated Snowcrows build I imagine that switching to Jalis for stab over other boons or even to Ventari while still being able to keep Shiro is going to help the build immensely. Should also help condi quick herald that can't really give up Mallyx without not working at all.
And sure, you're kinda forced into rhythmic stance changes, but that's Rev for you. Not really unlike being forced into weapon changes on other classes, is it?
Quick heal herald feels horrible to play now, I hate having to drain all my energy and spam swap legends to upkeep my teams boons the old spamming of utilitys was much more comfortable.
Anet just created boon rotations that promote spam over situational utility. Horrible patch
Not "just created". It has been this way for years.
@@themooniscoming not this badly though
@@tbone9474 I started playing with the release of PoF and I can't remember an instanced content situation where spamming isn't the answer (maybe just stab is situational)
@themooniscoming well rotations are always important for any MMO (except dnd online) but how can they defend popping stability and a rez as part of a normal rotation? Ridiculous
@@tbone9474 i see your point
Chrono can upkeeep perma alscnor quick just by chancing the trait and nothing else. 0% extra boon duration. No shield. No utility chance. And No Continum split 😂
Yeah that's pretty nice, but it's not the only thing a SupportDPS needs. It's one of the reason you hardly see AlacWillbender. Chrono has no sources of Fury, Might or Protection making both AlacChrono and QuickChrono incompatible with many healpartners.
@@MarenAlu Chronomancer can pair with following healers: Mechanist, Tempest, Druid, Renegade and Catalyst.
Firebrand, Herald, Scrapper, Harbinger, Scourge and Specter are missing 25 might and/or protection.
Harbinger suffers the same problem as Chronomancer, only quickness and fury.
Offensive support and Defensive support must provide: Alacrity, Quickness, 25might, fury, regen and protection.
-Healer usually provides Healing, Regeneration and Protection.
-Alacrity usually provides Alacrity, 25 might and Fury.
-Quickness usually provides Quickness.
Othre boons are quality of life and you look for specific healer/dps to get them.
I suppose that's true, the Quickness version is positioned better than I thought. Scourge got other problems rn and I totally forgot that they gave Ren a proper Fury source.
Though most QDPSes either provide fury or have the option to do so, which takes a lot of pressure from most AlacHealer not named Druid.
It's just AlacChrono that really can't keep up. If Cata is it's only viable partner, then it might as well not exist.
Just FYI, Dueling minor grandmaster trait gives fury (4sec) to nearby allies when you crit (8sec cd).
You can also go runes of the pack to generate fury and some extra might.
Chrono's shield skills also give protection (2.5 secs x2)
Chrono also has some good ways to apply aegis which I feel balances out or can be situationally better than protection. With both the well of precognition providing 3 instances of aegis and mantra of concentration providing aegis (5sec) and 3 instances of stability (11 sec perma stability) Giving you two more options if needed.
Even if using Pack Runes you will not get to 100% fury uptime, you'd need to invest in additional concentration further compromising the damage you're already giving up for the runes.
Similarly shield is 5 seconds per dual cast (which is long to begin with), even with CS, Ether Signet and Improved Alacrity this can't keep uptime on it's own. Not to mention that it's a 240 radius around the phantasm (not around you), making it very easy to just miss people without being able to do anythign about it.
If these were improved or added to, that would be a great fix, but as is they are unfortunatly not enough.
Chrono's general utility is amazing though, so I can see the Quickness Version being played for that benefit alone.
Herald was already played like this xD
So I just returned to the game and boosted a mesmer how are they now lol
I mean, solid. There's not really a profession that's bad in its entirety and role diversity may be broader than ever. There's a couple things that are very over or undertuned as a result of the patch, but that's unlikely to stick around for long. That tends to happen with summer balance patches. If you want to know anything more, you'll have to be a bit more specific
I've been maining mesmer since launch.
Chrono is probably in the best state it's ever been, and much simpler and more straight forward than previous renditions. Still continuem shift is the hardest learning curve in the game. Mirage is a little nerfed but it's extremely simple and low apm make it a good introduction style with large returns for the low investment. Virtuoso is just great, insane self sustain with a strong mix of condition and power dmg.