But Marco you gotta use all white gear, no weapons, Melee only, and only run into 4 man rogue groups blindfolded. Ya know, like the average player smh...
It doesn't matter what he does at this point, people are still going to make up shit to argue against it because they're trash and won't take responsibility for their own actions or their ability in the game and would prefer an easy ride over making effort and will come up with every excuse under the sun.
The Gaming Effect ™ They're* also the toxic players are ones who complain about shock turrets, call others trash repeatedly, clap or jumping jacks on your body after 12 people shot you etc
I've always stayed away from the dark zone until recently. The daily missions have me exploring the areas and learning that I stand a better than average chance in 1 v 1 pvp. It's actually opened up a large bit of "new" experiences for me and I now am quite fond of it. I still get ganked occasionally and steer clear of any groups whether they are rogue or not, but that is part of pvp.
I´m interested to see Skill Ups answer on this. I expect he is going to rethink his point of view like you did after the too easy PVE vid. Seeing the great discussions about the game on TH-cam it is really sad to see how much Massive is taking position in this game. Respect to you all Marco, Skill Up, Like Butter, Widdz, Upper Echolon gamers and soon. Without you the game maybe would really be dead. Thanks guys.
In your first video you took a less bias approach to the DZ problem. However, in this video, you went all out to try and make the argument of a large portion of the gamer base invalid. The sad thing is that through your own admission, in this video none the less, your skill was not able to overcome the gear gap. You then move the goal post by saying "well people should just farm better and get better gear". This video completely takes apart your argument that gear is not a factor in as much as skill. Moreover, without you knowing it, you proved that the gankfest in the DZ is so bad that you had to change DZ servers something like 3 times, just so you can farm alone and not get ganked. You did that so you can then come back and PVP. Brother, this is exactly the same as players asking for a PVE only DZ so they can farm, and then come to the PVP DZ to have a different kind of fun. You just validated this argument in spades, so I thank you for that. Lets get the devs to create that separate PVE DZ and let everyone enjoy this game to the fullest. Finally, you also unwittingly managed to prove Skillups point that those who INITIATE PVP (Rogues) have a massive advantage over those who are looking not to fight, as in your example when you couldn't help yourself and went rogue on the other guy waiting to extract. Your 2-3 second advantage is enough to put someone on the defensive, causing them to have to use their med/heal and begin at the losing end of the cooldown train. Once again though, you move the goal post by claiming that you can take down someone with average gear, but that wasn't the argument to begin with. I appreciate the time you take to make your videos and communicate your ideas to the public. However, I think you got completely sidetracked as to what the real issues are here, and inadvertently managed to prove almost every argument leveled against you by Skill up and the larger majority of this community. It's apparent that you like to PVP, and you don't feel the same amount of frustration from repeatedly getting ganked as do a lot of people. But brother, that's just your feeling, not everyone's. Simple solution is a separate PVE DZ until they fix the Rogue mechanic. Cheers!
Edwin R just think about a PVE DZ: 24 Agents rushing together through DZ6, pushing to be one of the lucky guys who hit the named ones to get loot befor the named is down (24 x Alpha Bridge!!!) to go to the extraction point and staying in th queue with the 24 agents to extract their Items... awesome... I repeat myself: leave the DZ as unfair as it is and add new content for players like you. Dont change the DZ a big part of the community loves, just add raids, open world events for PVP and ranked arenas for PVP. Why do you want to destroy a awesome expirience for us? I´m not saying the DZ is perfect but please dont make it "fair".
"this trend of wanting to turn the game into a giant care-bear zone on behalf of the players that are not willing to put the time in, but still want to get all the benefits and the rewards, that has to be shut down." Love it :)
Excellent points, well made. Other than the tips you touched on in this video, would you consider putting out more Skill Guides rather than Build Guides?
This is what people need to get better. Everything he takes for granted that he knows is what thousands of people haven't learned because it's not like it just jumps out at you. His solo PVP build guide hints at some of what you need to know to be better but a NOOB's guide to PVP would be great. To my knowledge nobody has made one. The skills that you master in PVE need to be thrown out the window in PVP and that's not as easy as some people make it out to be. Being killed over and over doesn't teach you about how to time skills and talents. I'm so sick of being told not to aim down sights when that's all you do in the rest of the game, but it is how it is. Maybe making hipfire do half damage would fix that. LOL
I got murdered in the beginning because I had no online PvP experience. I never gave up, kept practicing and kept coming. Now I can hold my own and love seeing my efforts pay off. And yes, I've seen my fair share of clapping players before I got better at it. Every player that dropped me thought me something, made me better and I'm thankful for them getting me fired up the keep pushing to kill them. I love DZ and all its unfairness.
Whilst that is true pvp is nothing to do with skill it's just having a glitchy, and or god build that you can only beat with the same build- And be the last to pop healing. Division pvp has nothing to do with skill, hell it's basically a different game than pve, as in pve you actually have to take cover. In pvp players just run around eachother.
mrdrebin123 if Division PVP takes no skill, go challenge some of the known better players to a 1v1 and beat them (no skills allowed just guns). Show them it takes no skill. Show them how talented you are and that they are all just good at popping heals and builds. Challenge them to a diversified build 1v1. That is, no 2, 3 or 4 piece sets. No named set pieces. Go beat a popular PVP player in a guns only 1v1 like that and show the world that The Division takes no skill
"Git Gud" - MarcoStyle. Haha. I honestly agree, in the Dark Zone's current form. Before 1.4, it was impossible, somewhat. But I gotta say, I have a wife of 7 years, a 4 year old son, and a very recently born daughter. And a full time job locally driving a propane truck around my city. But I have over 1700 hours on this game since launch. That's between PS4, and when I switched to PC in June. Like any other game, you do need to get better, and learn the ropes. Learn the maps, the boundaries of what you can do, and what you should do given the certain circumstances. But the high risk/low reward system now is terribly unbalanced. I do everything in this game, even PvP VERY rarely. But I do. It took some time for me to learn how to do it, but I did. And I've always had a min maxed build. From the decked out Golds, to maxed out Sentry, etc. I ran a 2 piece firecrest/4 Predators Mark in 1.3 and 1.4, as well as sentry obviously to stack over million head shot crit hits; but never the less I was always learning from This game, always taking away what worked and what didn't. It has a long and difficult learning curve, which has been drastically cut down by 1.4, but there is still a lot for newer or uninformed players to know. Actually putting a simple but somewhat detailed layout of how all gear works, etc in-game for newer players and ones coming back would go a long way I believe. Whatever 1.6 brings us, I'm ready. Cause after my family and 50-60 hours a week at work, I want to play The Division, and not any other game. Maybe WD2, but not really. Good videos Marco. I can see both sides of the view, and one last thing. I've always known what the DZ is. I've been ganked before, I've been 6v1''d before etc. But eventually like you said, you learn to fight against them, or better yet completely avoid them. I agree the DZ can be MUCH better than it's current form and NEEDS big changes. But I still have fun in the DZ. If you want to loot up really quick with no risk, I have 4 Alts, all looted from the LZ. HVTs, Dailies, UG, Survival, etc. I take my time and do it as time allows.
The complaining people are the ones who actually just want to get into a game and "kick ass". No learning, no approving just being awesome! Hey, they payed for the game so why should they have to do anything extra? INSTA GRATIFICATION CROWDS are the reason most games are shallow and dumbed down these days. There are plenty games out there with instant satisfaction value. There is no need to play a game with complex mechanics if you are not willing to invest some time. By the way: there wouldn't be a game industry these days without the dedicated players that kept the game market alive.
andre p i played this game since it came out and that is not true people get lucky getting god roll weapons and gear and got the best build possible while im still struggling getting what i need to get my build going. its not skill in the dz, its luck
andre p bro it was the same shit in street fighter 4. This character has something that's annoying. Capcom nerf plz! Resulted in a lot of characters getting nerfed when they were fine
Too many kids have a Call of Duty attitude in this game. Just showing up doesn't get you kills. Skill is actually required and most people are not skilled, they just use OP gear and cry when they get folded. Marco, you're giving the community WAY too much credit. lol Kids just want EASY kills. They don't want to actually put in effort.
that is why the division need arena for just pvp 12 vs 12 like that for any kind of build with any kind of skill use mobile cover shield smart cover sniper shotgun lmg smg pistol playstyle if not all you see in dz is a any build only with pulse + overdose.i start play it on this game start and boring on 1.3 and stop into dz any more
Using the tools and capabilities you have available to you in a game to their best advantage and at the best time is 'skill'. Something I've still got to teach myself is to hip fire more in this game. So, yes, hip firing is a skill (esp on console), so is using well placed grenades, using burst fire weapons and knowing to shoot in bursts to ensure the most percentage in hits rather than the weapon recoiling away from the target, etc.
First of all thank you Marco for going through all this hard work to prove a point with the ultimate goal of making "our" game and community better! No matter what game I play that envolves PVP people always find excuses other than "I am not that good!" "I didn't play that well" , "I still have a lot to learn". 0% accountability, always blame something else. It's so nice to have guys like you, widdz and Disturbedgaming f.e. to help us get better and to enjoy ourselves through your content. Keep up the great work.
BOOM! Thank god for you Marco! That's why you're the smartest player in the game. Bad players just need to stay away from the Dark Zone if they can't PVP. Or, just play Mass Effect LOL. You have no idea how happy I am about this video dude. Thanks!
You and SkillUp have such wonderful points of view on the DZ. both very convincing. I'm both subscribers to you guys. And seeing the diversity in opinions and things that need to be done about the DZ are excellent. I absolutely can't wait to see what Massive has planned. I may not be the "one percent" but I definitely enjoy pvp like anyone else and I know it needs improvements
"This trend of wanting to turn the whole game into a giant care bear zone on behalf of the players that are not willing to put the time in, but still wanting to get all the benefits and the rewards. That has to be shut down." Well put dude, I agree 100%. Good video man, sad that I missed the stream. Props man.
I really like this idea. Good job Marco, really well done. Really appreciated. Everyone who is crying about PvP and the dark zone should watch this video and learn!
A well done, practical example of the DZ rewarding 'player skill' not only when having a great build... Awesome vid Marco! Too many times since the release of the game I've seen people drop off of TD and blame many things, except their own skill. Usual case of the 'tradesman blaming the tools'. I know my own skill is not the best and even though I get frustrated as hell in the DZ when the team I'm running keeps going back to the better players (when we aren't grouped up, or ready, or don't focus fire, etc), and continually get melted, I know it's us that is the problem. When we do things right and choose our targets or hunt rogues, we can do an okay job, even me, and that is satisfying. I love The Division, as it gives me opportunity to look at own skill and not rely on crazy build power to fudge my way into thinking I'm good. The game gives me a challenge and I'm rewarded by having a great bunch of mates to run with, enjoy a joke or laugh, get frustrated and appreciation of finding there will always be better players than myself, yet I can still enjoy THE GAME. There are always things that can be improved, but the underpinning of what makes this game is great and doesn't really need any major changes, esp the DZ.
Salim B. it was widdz's idea to prove his point even further, widdz was folding 256 players with purple gear. I probably will never be as good as Marco and widdz but I do practice when I can
MarcoStyle I loved the video, and couldn't agree with you more when it comes to the skill gap. I left a pretty lengthy response to skill ups last video about this topic, and you covered all the points beautifully. I just feel that alot of the player base isn't taking skill ups montra to heart, as I read more comments about people crying, rather than getting good. Awesome video man keep it up.
Marco, I appreciate your efforts, and I really enjoy your build videos ,I am sure many others do as well, they are very informative. All of your video`s on the use of skills are second to none. I really like the reclaimer/medic build, No one on the internet that I could find, has done the testing that you and your friends have, concerning how the skills work (or don`t ) and recorded it for everyone`s benefit, all of the players that have watched your videos on how the medic skills work ect. owe you (and your friends) a thank you, for spending your time testing these skills and making videos for all of us to benefit from. So Thanks Marco and Friend`s. Believe it or not, this kind of help or really in depth information is actually, pretty rare. Most of the other channels that I have watched about The Division, are videos of DZ game play where the protagonist, is just trash talking or yelling into the microphone at people he killed, or people that killed him and there is no information to be gained by listening to that , so pretty much a waste of time to even go back to that channel because what can you learn about the game by watching some dude run around in a circle and call people bitches for an hour, I have played PvP in many , many games but sometimes when 4 of my best friends are all online, and on Teamspeak at the same time, we would rather coordinate our builds and take on a Heroic mission, as a group and have a ton of fun, instead of going into the DZ, Does this make us "Care Bears"? , IClubCareBears must be directed at PvE players and that`s fine Marco, except that the majority of players that may watch or use one of your builds other than Alpha Bridge, just might be PvE CareBears, so you could be shooting yourself in the foot by disrespecting half of your viewers by naming yourself, IClubCareBears, I dont really care but I think (please dont Gank Me)was a much better all around choice. No matter what you do, No matter how much purple only gear is used, the fact is, you can never enter the DZ and have no Idea where you are like a new player with purple gear, and no idea where to find caches, vendors or named elites, you can not erase your memory of the map, or the time that you put in playing many hard fought hours in PvP, and the ways to escape a group that you figured out by yourself, you did very well with purple gear in this example, there is no doubt that you know exactly what you are doing, this is not going to happen with someone who just bought the game, more than likely they would post a complaint on the steam forums that they ran into this guy name Iclubcarebears that was the same rank as them and he killed us all with a spoon he had in his back pocket so please.. don`t do this anymore Marco, because we all know you can overcome most situations , What we really need is a very good video of you soloing Clear Sky with one of your builds, you can turn it down to When it comes down to it, the 1.6 update will change PvP, we dont know how things will change just yet but.... I encourage you all who play The Division to have more respect for each other, because it does not cost you anything to say "Sorry Dude"
gear doesn't matter as much anymore though since it is so easy to come across. Also this game takes a different kind of skill than most shooters. Most shooters you use your twitch reflexes to land a couple of bullets. This game however is based on twitch reflexes, aiming consistency, prediction pathing, and pathing consistency. To kill a player with an ar in the game at the highest level you have to be able to land at least 2-3 full kits into that player's head. I know you can obviously kill players faster than this, but if you ever watch people like widdz and exuhz 1v1 people of equal skill it goes all the way down to 0 medkits because hitting a target who is doing a sprint cancel strafe at the right time is extremely hard even for players with god like aim.
The thing is Skill is not isolated to movement, aiming...and attacking people in the DZ... Skills are ALSO defined by.....How to farm without being engaged by other players. How to extract your loot. How to get out of a 4 man squad trying to jump you....etc etc..
Mercenary 1914 I don't consider any of those things to be skillful at all because they are so easy my 8 year old little sister can do it. She loves the dark zone and all the salty hate messages that comes with it.
You gotta understand Marco that everybody now a days is going to be hurt or offended if it's not their way. No matter how much you try to tell them "this is the way it is" they will not listen even if it is fact. I'm not trying to be mean or anything but it is the truth no matter how you look at it.
Great straight up and truthful video. One of the best content creators because of the vast knowledge and understanding you have of this game. Why massive doesn't take your videos and info more into consideration is beyond me? GGs Marco
Marco, can you make a "How to PvP" and go through the fundamentals and/ or advance techniques which you can do in PvP? This would help people like me, who do ONLY PvE who are trying to get into PvP without getting our ass kicked
Britz Fluffy I'll tell you how to. Learn to hipfire, learn to roll, and learn to use bleed procs to prevent people from running. That's some fundamentals right there.
Paul Masters what's your problem though with a PvE DZ? It just mean you will know face people who will want to PVP! Or do you NEED unwilling players to gank?
My problem is it's not necessary you can gear up way easier with the other forms of PvE but it takes players out of the only real form of PvP depopulating the DZ. The Dark Zone is meant to be for PvP not another loot grind/farm...
+Paul Masters +DJ1234 SR I think the essential point here is players want a more challenging PVE experience, and seeing this in the DZ i.e. saturated with more challenging NPCs that respawn quickly instead of daily, weekly or 4 hourly, chests that can be looted over and over, caches that can be looted from cases around the DZ with no real limitation. If the LZ was more like the DZ in this respect there would be no need for a dedicated PVE DZ (maybe the need to include Hard mode on the Tier levels for those wanting more of a challenge?). Those that like the DZ the way it is (me included), can still farm if we wish to find that piece we are seeking but we also have the excitement of PVP action around the corner. There will always be those that enter the DZ and it will not disappear, but adding more elements of a PVE DZ to the LZ would encourage those that have left the game 'because it is getting boring in the open world' something to do and enjoy till a story expansion etc.
Wow. I never comment on videos but this is one of the most thought out and highly educational content I have ever seen. Well done man. That is awesome!
the simple fact that he says skill is the biggest gap not gear but with all his skill and shitty gear he admits it's a struggle is exactly the point people make about the DZ your gear enhances your skill and until then your skill in the game can't overcome that gap
THANK YOU! Perfect this is what I been DYING TO SEE!!!! How it is done. I would love to see more vids by the 'others' out there doing the same thing, showing the moves and differences. Hmmmm. Okay, you have convinced me of what your saying, and your end statement makes alot of sense. Now I understand the "get good" comments by you 1% players whom do put in the honest effort for honest gain and why your viewing it that way. That there is 'tricks' to the game you have to skill into to gain the higher reward.
For every cry baby rage post about DZ pvp/ganking put up on Reddit or Ubisoft Division forums, I'm going to refer them to this video. Well done Marco, Bravo.
Really goes to show how wide the skill gap can be in this game. I like skill gap but it has to be reasonable and in the division the skill gap is not reasonable. PvP in the division is odd at best. Face tanking everything at point blank range while waiting for your opponent to run out of heals. Getting that stun grenade hit so you get a free kill. Using a signature to regen back to full health while still taking hits. It all adds up to a strange PvP experience that many players just don't care for. I think kill times are too long right now and there is too much healing and cover based combat is no where in sight. There is no denying that PvP is just a broken mess right now and it needs to be fixed. The devs wanted it to be a complete troll fest which they somewhat succeeded in but this only appeals to a very small minority of the player base and just runs off everyone else.
ThatOneGuy if that's the case elaborate how this guy just went manhunt purple gear and killed mid maxed players with purple gear. Skill gap is way bigger
Royal Solidus He knows the DZ inside and out. But that's what happens when you spend all your time in there. The only skill I can really think of is learning how to hipfire and roll.
I would defs agree there is a skill gap (I'm taking a break before I dive back into the DZ, but in no way am I a skilled DZ player) and it's much bigger than the gear gap. However, Michael does have a point about kill times, as long as it takes so long to down a player, there's no incentive to use cover because people can just facetank and rely on aim skill and strafing. It's not necessarily bad, just prioritizes different skills in the game. It's really up to Massive whether or not they want to incentivize cover more, or leave that aspect of PvP as is.
I would like to see something like this: Backpack = Keep most items upon death (Ninja Backpack) Chest Piece = Prevents Shock Status Effect Mask = Run and use weapon while on fire (Ferros Mask) Knee Pads = Allows you to run faster while not rouge "Maybe +2 Speed?" Gloves = No lost keys if dies to a rouge Holster = Can still run while on bleed status
experience is the sole reason you progressed as far as you did so quickly. i just got back into it since i bought at launch and ran the same route you did with an experienced player i met at an extraction. got to were i mow npcs but lack pvp experience. but I'm workin on it!
honestdude I mean he even showed you how to exactly, essentially this is what solo plebs who have no skill in pvp have been complaining about. The fact of the matter, the indisputable truth is; you need actual player to player positioning and skill to play the darkzone.
Glad that somebody finally made a thorough video with multiple levels of proof to tear down the idea of completely changing the DZ. The community is split in half because of this, and I agree with skillup when he says that the divide is a bad thing. However, complaining about the Dark Zone and thinking that changing it is going to bring the community back together is not the right way to go about things, especially when he has such influence on the way people see the game. Great video and I hope that this changes some minds
The ending of this video was kinda all over the place. The original video was just you disagreeing with SkillUp's idea of going into the DZ with set gear so everyone is equal, however at the end of this you also threw in the idea of making the DZ a carebear arena needs to go. Some people that want PvE DZ aren't necessarily carebears. The LZ is just too big with too little mob density to efficiently farm it and still have fun. The DZ is the opposite. The mob density is just perfect, and the environment itself is just way better and more atmospheric than the LZ. I seriously can't see how the PvE DZ is a bad idea. It's the same as getting look in the PvE area, and if you want to try out your build in PvP, then you go do PvP DZ. There is a pretty big skill gap, yes, but there is also a huge build gap. Certain compositions of builds can make a team unstoppable, whether they are garbage players or not. As a mix player, I'd rather fight players of my skill level, because I'd rather not get shit on, or shit on other players because it just doesn't feel fun. With the PvE DZ, that most likely would be solved. PvE DZ would give all the lesser geared or PvE oriented players a place to go when their buddies aren't online, or when they just want a place to burn time, and the people in the PvP DZ would be more willing to actually do PvP, making the battles much more enjoyable and much more worth it. The amount of people I see get shit on in the DZ when trying to solo farm is unbelievable. It's no fun for anyone, and if you get fun out of killing solo farmers while in a group, you're awful. I can only see positives out of getting a PvE DZ.
So, let me see if I understand this video properly. You decked yourself out in purples with the intent of soloing the Dark Zone. Then, when you ran into trouble, you opted to match-make into an alternate Dark Zone where you were no longer experiencing the caustic PVP which was preventing you from extraction. You just proved the point of many of the people you're railing against. You' act as though queueing for an alternate Dark Zone is a genius maneuver no solo player has ever thought of. But first things first, people have to be able to escape the Dark Zone WITH the loot they had for changing instances to be worthwhile. There's an infinite number of factors (your position, rogue positions, land obstacles, knowledge of map, etc; etc;) that will contribute to whether or not another player can successfully escape an engagement. And, if those players outnumber and outgear you - forget it. What you proved was that you had to sneak out in order for your extraction to even be possible. Your escape had nothing to do with you being skilled or the other players being skilled. You were forced to use the game in a way that was not necessarily intended to avoid losing everything you had received during that play session. Was this the wise choice? Yes. Is it good game play? Hell no. Being forced into a specific play-style (hiding in the shadows and praying no one is behind you) isn't PVP. That's PVE with a bunch of people PVPing around you.
While this holds truth, he wanted to show that you can do it alone with shitty gear. And in a geargame you're not really supposed to beat players who are better geared than you let alone outnumber you. If you play solo with shitty gear he showed a fair way to still get loot and survuve.
Thats exactly what the dark zone is its a pve place with people pvping around u, thats the point its a different experience and a break from all the call of duty multiplayer normal pvp games
To be honest most of the fights are ability, medkit, grenade and roll spams. Then after that you are allowed to get a kill so long as you have the right OP gear, team mates, and the hit detection doesnt decide to fuck you.
Respect! Great vid with very valid points. I'm not that good in PVP Dark Zone and I've never cried about it. It's part of the game. I just practice and try to get better. You've earned a sub.
Your point is just a 10 minute video with the whole point basically being "get good bro" not everyone is good at games, not everyone has the capacity to learn and improve, not everyone has youtube channel showcasing skills on games. whether you like it or not you are in the 1% the dark zone is not fun, and needs fixing, it is not enjoyable when you are solo, and have medium gear or high end gear, the division community is the worst online gaming community I have ever been involved with and I'm 40 and have been around snce the first CODS. The toxic community has ruined the experience let's face it even rival division uploaders hate each other, troll each other, and make response videos, so when the community "leaders" don't get along what hope does the game have. It's full of cheaters hackers and gankers, that will than troll you with messages and clapping over your corpse, the %of pvp encounters where you lose and think "that was close gg" is low,which is a shame, I like the dark zone because it is not monotonous I'm facing elite enemies and danger at every turn,and to earn my rewards I have to face more danger by extracting, I don't want to grind out the same mission for 3 days straight, I'm a pve player, but I like pvp encounters, it is sadly not balanced, there should be a matchmaking option. PVE and PVP dark zone, a team based matchmaking option and a solo option,.
" 1% " is an excuse that entitled marxist millennial cunts throw around bc they suck, in game and at life.....and they suck precisely bc of that mindset. I assure you they stomp their feet and scream at anyone who has had more success than them in life, crying " lucky 1%...wahhhhhhh". You're 40, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's a disgusting parasitic mindset and it destroys entire nations. And BULLSHIT, everyone has the capacity to learn and improve, it's literally the engine of evolution, it's inherent to the design of life you miserable failure. Quit spreading your cancer.
Thank you for posting this marco! I was getting worried when skill up was doing his carebear crusade but im glad you understand what the division is and what the darkzone is. Too many people would rather bitch and whine to change the game rather than put in the time to get better at it.
+Fuchs Fred the point of the DZ is exactly what you dont like. That's why they made the PVE area drop gear like Candy. It was to appease people like you who don't like the fuckery in the DZ.... In all honesty....you can avoid all those things by avoiding people.. If you are in the DZ to farm...farm places like contaminated zones and underground....if you see rogues pinging in south, go farm up north..if there are rogues all over your map. Just server transfer. Call fake extractions... Play the DZ like it's end game...don't go in there half assing it. The DZ was supposed to be our end game along with incursions....but people cried so much...the DZ has become only a place to commit fuckery.
Kingserpent 101 I'm guessing because not everyone is really into PvP. I'm not really. but I still go in the dz just for laughs. I always enjoy the appreciation I get when someone kills me!!! ha ha. but luckily for me I have the cruisey attitude. you die in the dark zone rogue or not rogue you don't really lose anything. but I understand not everyone has a care free attitude so would like to just farm the dark zone without the grief. higher enemy density. different darker atmosphere. I'd kind of like the idea of a dark zone ( or another large area) with really hard enemies, a bit like in 1.3 where it was a real challenge.
I don't want the DZ to be some kind of care bear zone. I'm good at pve but suck at pvp. Even watching you pvp makes me cringe. I love your videos they're very informative but the crazy high sensitivity zig zagging, the ridiculous close quarters hip fire dance you do... Playing like that does not interest me. Even if I could kill everyone doing that shit I never would. The problem is the DZ isn't JUST a pvp zone. It has pve content and it's abundantly clear a big chunk of development time was spent on it. That's a problem because the overwhelming majority hate it as well. It's a big chunk of the game that most of the player base hates. That's an issue they need to take seriously going forward for the division 2.
Marco, your video means that if people play in dark zone for hundreds and thousands of time like hard core players like you, they will not die even with wearing purple gears. It does not make sense for average players. If you put one of your friends who can play The Division for 2 - 3 hours per day because of working and show if he can play like you, It would be better and more persuasive. I'm not saying you are totally "wrong." I agree that there is no huge problem in DZ at all. but its just your video tells that " just become hard core player " like you.
Finally someone that posts something exactly how I was thinking. How is a guy who plays the Division for fun, and not to be on youtube or Twitch and plays 2-4 hours a day supposed to even compete with people that play 8-12 hours a day? That is what is a bit frustrating with alot of these vids, they keep saying "Noob build", but they seem to forget what a real Noob build is or would be and have items no noob would have. A shame DZ is mainly gank, but will stick to the PvE areas myself since I am a total solo player.
I'm still new to The Division, but I definitely agree. Only recently have I delved into the dark zone and I have found it very enjoyable. If they were to simply take away the pve + pvp aspect as Skillup and many others are now requesting, I'm not sure what I would be grinding for right now. Keep up the good work, man.
Royal Solidus It just seems like he's just saying hey look at how good I am at the game. Don't just assume someone can't play the game just cause they make a comment it seemed like he was just stroking his ego. And I wasn't speaking to you so shut the fuck up.
Joshua McClellan coming from some kid who says "it just seems" you literally hold zero merit here, because "what it seems" like is you can't wrap your head around anything he is saying. Get Good.
sir this whole video was made to prove the argument that skill actually provides a bigger gap between players than gear does, and if you are not comfortable with yourself enough to watch him use only his own skill to prove this point then you should not watch this video. simple as that.
Thank you for your video. It really gives me the confidence to step into the dz as a solo player. Getting loot and fighting mobs are no issue for me, but I think I have a preset mind set that if I don't have a perfect build that I can't fight. Thus I don't get practice, and thus I'm bad at the game. It's a vicious circle and I'm glad you broke it. Thank you again and as always I really enjoy your content.
Great video and break down. Most of my group has between 10 and 20 hours and we can shred in the DZ and of course get shredded. We're on PS4 and it doesn't matter if I am running a gold build, alpha, firecrest etc. I can play the way I want to play with the stats I want without taking a big hit to DPS or Toughness. Before patch 1.4 I wouldn't go into the dark zone solo and now I do it all the time. It does take time to learn how to engage multiple players solo or with a disadvantaged team but after a few hours of doing it someone can learn how to maneuver and when to use what items or skills. Keep up the good work bro.
I just can confirm everything you said. The DZ is fine - sure some finetuning would be fine, but I really like it as it is now. Because it gives me the feeling of real survival, because everything and everyone can (may, or may not) kill you. I watched the video and felt like I want to test this out. Got myself a pretty allrounded banshee-built, because I didn't want to lose money and yeah.. everything is just like you said: had really good solo extractions, teamed up with some random guy who left after a few minutes, had fights with some gankers, but could avoid,or lose them in the subways. was fun. I don't undestand what skill up is bugging so much, his ideas to "make the dz better" overshoot the target waaaaaay too far and some are exactly the opposite of what the DZ is about. I like your videos, man. Keep it up!
Man.... I was blown away with the hip fire kills and was so excited to get on and try it more than realized this was old. Oh how i miss the old hip fire =[
I watched the whole stream and I have to say that this was a perfect example of what an experienced player can do even with sub optimum gear. Skill over gear wins!!
Marco you did amazing job and that video is truly inspiring, however I am new to this game and I have been to DZ couple of times, so knowing that to do and where to go closes the gap also between you and other players, adding to that your godly reflexes and skills. So for mature player like me we do not even stand a chance. You do have a very valid/solid point that practice is a must and you must know your environment and also the game pretty well. Even playing the game +60 hours will not give me enough skills to match the 1% like you, your mamma ave birth to you on a mouse and keyboard, mine just gave birth in regular hospital. Keep up the good work bro.
I have to say I totally agree with you Marco. I have been playing this game since 1.2 and probably 80% of my time in the DZ was spent doing it solo and I learned that if I wanted loot the thing to do was play smart. I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't have moments that I was frustrated but most of those were because I didn't walk away when a group of Rogues were coming my way. Sometimes I would choose to PVP after spending time collecting loot and I have fun doing both activities. I am definitely not the top 1% but I do just fine for myself. Keep on my making good content.
I love it when people back up their arguments with hard proof that they can show to their audiences right there and then. People will always think they're right, and when they're proved wrong they can't ever seem to accept it right away. Being frustrated is part of almost any video game, and unless you understand that and accept it, you're not going to have a good time. A tip of my hat to you, Marco! 🎩👏
Diggin your videos and your gameplay. As much as this game can get on my last nerve, still one of my favs and I've sunk almost 40 logged days into my first character
It's good to see this vid, I play the game solo by myself I usually have bad luck with loot and other players, seeing the live stream and how you looted in dz6 makes me think about how I play. I spend nearly all my time in dz1 &2 but I think me going higher will make the game even more fun
CobaltRose249 but still missed if you consider the PvP to be fucking dire in this game and it's nothing to do with rewards, killing, dying, griefing etc. It's just fucking rubbish to play! Also, while he was 'going for the jugular' the video showed him zigzagging, spamming grenades at his own feet, circling, hip firing, waiting for cooldowns while doing all this for skills to come back up. Not knocking Marco, it's how the game must be played and he's exceedingly good at it, but that doesn't change the whole mechanics of it being shit.
Great video Marco. Having been a day one player since the beta i can say that unlike the dreaded pay gap, the skill gap is absolutely REAL and YUGE. Despite all the patches and gameplay changes i managed to farm to dz99 largely solo on my first character and always found it silly how all the whiners couldn't seem to figure out how risk assessment, situational awareness, map knowledge/escape routes, aggro pulling, various combat nuances, and general avoidance techniques are all integral to success in the DZ. Preach on brotha.
Great vid brother. this is why i sub you man. i am that solo player who doesnt understand build mechanics and plays on console. its hard at times sure. but i always leave your vids knowing a little more to help keep me alive that little bit longer dude. Thank you man
I applaud you bro 👊🏽 Love the video and that should put the point out, and I admit, I'm not that good in the DZ, but I still love it! The only problem I had was losing xp every time I got killed by rogues but I started running Banshee and that solved that problem. So theirs always a solution to something other then changing the entire game around non experienced players 👍🏽
omg fuk yea im subbing dude, i loved the point you made about people saying you couldnt do what you did with purple gear b.c you are the one percent...b.c this is exxxactly what i did to get up to tier 5 and how i got my first few set pieces...i went in there and grinded the dz all by my lonesome and extracted a shit ton of sealed caches lol^^ youre awesome man.
You said "care bear zone" that was awesome! I'm not as good as many players but I am trying to improve my skill, running different builds and engaging in PvP. Like you said, I'll never get better if I don't practice.
Could not agree more with everything you said in this video! I played solo since launch and knew that in my decision to do so the game was going to be very hard, not only can you do all the things you said 9/10 times someone is inviting you to a group so you're never solo for long. So sick of the community trying to baby the dark zone, you know what it is going in there and make the choice to do so
But Marco you gotta use all white gear, no weapons, Melee only, and only run into 4 man rogue groups blindfolded. Ya know, like the average player smh...
It doesn't matter what he does at this point, people are still going to make up shit to argue against it because they're trash and won't take responsibility for their own actions or their ability in the game and would prefer an easy ride over making effort and will come up with every excuse under the sun.
+1 :D
BleedRainbows hahahahahaha
Well said Chris Static... Becareful their gonna call you a "Toxic Player"
The Gaming Effect ™ They're* also the toxic players are ones who complain about shock turrets, call others trash repeatedly, clap or jumping jacks on your body after 12 people shot you etc
Well you're not wrong. It's actually nice to see that the division has a higher skill ceiling than I originally imagined.
I've always stayed away from the dark zone until recently. The daily missions have me exploring the areas and learning that I stand a better than average chance in 1 v 1 pvp. It's actually opened up a large bit of "new" experiences for me and I now am quite fond of it.
I still get ganked occasionally and steer clear of any groups whether they are rogue or not, but that is part of pvp.
When I first went into the dark zone I thought people could rip the gear you had equipped off your dead body so I was terrified.
MulberryDeer lol same
if this was the case, i would not make one step into that DZ
Ha ha, I put literally everything but what I absolutely needed into the stash because I thought the same thing.
That would actually be insanely fun though
@@rynewby3609 Not really but sure buddy
It's 2020 and this is still one of my favorite videos. Great job Marco.
im gonna copy this and make video Kappa
Nice vid duude
Marcostyle always make nice Vids kid, u dont need to say it, every one knows that
I'm gonna do the same in the next 2 or 3 days and post it to reddit so we can hopefully shut some people up.
I´m interested to see Skill Ups answer on this.
I expect he is going to rethink his point of view like you did after the too easy PVE vid.
Seeing the great discussions about the game on TH-cam it is really sad to see how much Massive is taking position in this game.
Respect to you all Marco, Skill Up, Like Butter, Widdz, Upper Echolon gamers and soon. Without you the game maybe would really be dead.
Thanks guys.
In your first video you took a less bias approach to the DZ problem. However, in this video, you went all out to try and make the argument of a large portion of the gamer base invalid.
The sad thing is that through your own admission, in this video none the less, your skill was not able to overcome the gear gap. You then move the goal post by saying "well people should just farm better and get better gear". This video completely takes apart your argument that gear is not a factor in as much as skill.
Moreover, without you knowing it, you proved that the gankfest in the DZ is so bad that you had to change DZ servers something like 3 times, just so you can farm alone and not get ganked. You did that so you can then come back and PVP. Brother, this is exactly the same as players asking for a PVE only DZ so they can farm, and then come to the PVP DZ to have a different kind of fun. You just validated this argument in spades, so I thank you for that. Lets get the devs to create that separate PVE DZ and let everyone enjoy this game to the fullest.
Finally, you also unwittingly managed to prove Skillups point that those who INITIATE PVP (Rogues) have a massive advantage over those who are looking not to fight, as in your example when you couldn't help yourself and went rogue on the other guy waiting to extract. Your 2-3 second advantage is enough to put someone on the defensive, causing them to have to use their med/heal and begin at the losing end of the cooldown train. Once again though, you move the goal post by claiming that you can take down someone with average gear, but that wasn't the argument to begin with.
I appreciate the time you take to make your videos and communicate your ideas to the public. However, I think you got completely sidetracked as to what the real issues are here, and inadvertently managed to prove almost every argument leveled against you by Skill up and the larger majority of this community. It's apparent that you like to PVP, and you don't feel the same amount of frustration from repeatedly getting ganked as do a lot of people. But brother, that's just your feeling, not everyone's. Simple solution is a separate PVE DZ until they fix the Rogue mechanic.
Cheers!
Edwin R just think about a PVE DZ:
24 Agents rushing together through DZ6, pushing to be one of the lucky guys who hit the named ones to get loot befor the named is down (24 x Alpha Bridge!!!) to go to the extraction point and staying in th queue with the 24 agents to extract their Items... awesome...
I repeat myself: leave the DZ as unfair as it is and add new content for players like you. Dont change the DZ a big part of the community loves, just add raids, open world events for PVP and ranked arenas for PVP.
Why do you want to destroy a awesome expirience for us? I´m not saying the DZ is perfect but please dont make it "fair".
"this trend of wanting to turn the game into a giant care-bear zone on behalf of the players that are not willing to put the time in, but still want to get all the benefits and the rewards, that has to be shut down."
Love it :)
Excellent points, well made. Other than the tips you touched on in this video, would you consider putting out more Skill Guides rather than Build Guides?
David Weir yeah that's what he should do, make a skill guide
Great idea!
This is what people need to get better. Everything he takes for granted that he knows is what thousands of people haven't learned because it's not like it just jumps out at you. His solo PVP build guide hints at some of what you need to know to be better but a NOOB's guide to PVP would be great. To my knowledge nobody has made one. The skills that you master in PVE need to be thrown out the window in PVP and that's not as easy as some people make it out to be. Being killed over and over doesn't teach you about how to time skills and talents. I'm so sick of being told not to aim down sights when that's all you do in the rest of the game, but it is how it is. Maybe making hipfire do half damage would fix that. LOL
thats a really good idea
if you want skills for PVP, watch How to become a PVP God by Widdz. Its 7 months old but still applies in 1.5
Honestly Marco, you are the only youtuber that makes me feel confident to go into the dark zone. Keep up the good work.
I love this man, crushing excuses of people who don't want to progress..
I got murdered in the beginning because I had no online PvP experience. I never gave up, kept practicing and kept coming. Now I can hold my own and love seeing my efforts pay off. And yes, I've seen my fair share of clapping players before I got better at it. Every player that dropped me thought me something, made me better and I'm thankful for them getting me fired up the keep pushing to kill them. I love DZ and all its unfairness.
michieltoebes man we need more players like you
Ali Dika you grow and learn from defeat. What's the point in an easy game is what I think.
michieltoebes people want easy kills and gameplay you can't get this in the dz this is why the division pvp is unique
Whilst that is true pvp is nothing to do with skill it's just having a glitchy, and or god build that you can only beat with the same build- And be the last to pop healing. Division pvp has nothing to do with skill, hell it's basically a different game than pve, as in pve you actually have to take cover. In pvp players just run around eachother.
mrdrebin123 if Division PVP takes no skill, go challenge some of the known better players to a 1v1 and beat them (no skills allowed just guns). Show them it takes no skill. Show them how talented you are and that they are all just good at popping heals and builds.
Challenge them to a diversified build 1v1. That is, no 2, 3 or 4 piece sets. No named set pieces. Go beat a popular PVP player in a guns only 1v1 like that and show the world that The Division takes no skill
"Git Gud" - MarcoStyle. Haha. I honestly agree, in the Dark Zone's current form. Before 1.4, it was impossible, somewhat. But I gotta say, I have a wife of 7 years, a 4 year old son, and a very recently born daughter. And a full time job locally driving a propane truck around my city. But I have over 1700 hours on this game since launch. That's between PS4, and when I switched to PC in June. Like any other game, you do need to get better, and learn the ropes. Learn the maps, the boundaries of what you can do, and what you should do given the certain circumstances. But the high risk/low reward system now is terribly unbalanced. I do everything in this game, even PvP VERY rarely. But I do. It took some time for me to learn how to do it, but I did. And I've always had a min maxed build. From the decked out Golds, to maxed out Sentry, etc. I ran a 2 piece firecrest/4 Predators Mark in 1.3 and 1.4, as well as sentry obviously to stack over million head shot crit hits; but never the less I was always learning from This game, always taking away what worked and what didn't. It has a long and difficult learning curve, which has been drastically cut down by 1.4, but there is still a lot for newer or uninformed players to know. Actually putting a simple but somewhat detailed layout of how all gear works, etc in-game for newer players and ones coming back would go a long way I believe. Whatever 1.6 brings us, I'm ready. Cause after my family and 50-60 hours a week at work, I want to play The Division, and not any other game. Maybe WD2, but not really. Good videos Marco. I can see both sides of the view, and one last thing. I've always known what the DZ is. I've been ganked before, I've been 6v1''d before etc. But eventually like you said, you learn to fight against them, or better yet completely avoid them. I agree the DZ can be MUCH better than it's current form and NEEDS big changes. But I still have fun in the DZ. If you want to loot up really quick with no risk, I have 4 Alts, all looted from the LZ. HVTs, Dailies, UG, Survival, etc. I take my time and do it as time allows.
Austin Spraggins Jesus man, you just wrote your life story 😂😂
Next dz with full green and white weapons and no skills. I don't even know if that's possible
The complaining people are the ones who actually just want to get into a game and "kick ass". No learning, no approving just being awesome! Hey, they payed for the game so why should they have to do anything extra? INSTA GRATIFICATION CROWDS are the reason most games are shallow and dumbed down these days. There are plenty games out there with instant satisfaction value. There is no need to play a game with complex mechanics if you are not willing to invest some time. By the way: there wouldn't be a game industry these days without the dedicated players that kept the game market alive.
andre p nice thinking
andre p i played this game since it came out and that is not true people get lucky getting god roll weapons and gear and got the best build possible while im still struggling getting what i need to get my build going. its not skill in the dz, its luck
andre p bro it was the same shit in street fighter 4. This character has something that's annoying. Capcom nerf plz! Resulted in a lot of characters getting nerfed when they were fine
Tony Gables rng is luck, everything else applies skill
When I want to just go kill stuff I do the underground on normal. Almost like a "warm up" for a gaming session
Too many kids have a Call of Duty attitude in this game.
Just showing up doesn't get you kills.
Skill is actually required and most people are not skilled, they just use OP gear and cry when they get folded.
Marco, you're giving the community WAY too much credit. lol Kids just want EASY kills. They don't want to actually put in effort.
that is why the division need arena for just pvp 12 vs 12 like that for any kind of build with any kind of skill use mobile cover shield smart cover sniper shotgun lmg smg pistol playstyle
if not all you see in dz is a any build only with pulse + overdose.i start play it on this game start and boring on 1.3 and stop into dz any more
but dz is made like that
no honor in dz
Lankey Bastard running round hip firing takes skill nowadays?cool
Tenzin Choeden way off the point dumbass
Using the tools and capabilities you have available to you in a game to their best advantage and at the best time is 'skill'. Something I've still got to teach myself is to hip fire more in this game. So, yes, hip firing is a skill (esp on console), so is using well placed grenades, using burst fire weapons and knowing to shoot in bursts to ensure the most percentage in hits rather than the weapon recoiling away from the target, etc.
so basically you just told SkillUP to get his SKILL UP.......;)
Marco you forgot to wait for the red flags before you PVP
lol
First of all thank you Marco for going through all this hard work to prove a point with the ultimate goal of making "our" game and community better!
No matter what game I play that envolves PVP people always find excuses other than "I am not that good!" "I didn't play that well" , "I still have a lot to learn". 0% accountability, always blame something else.
It's so nice to have guys like you, widdz and Disturbedgaming f.e. to help us get better and to enjoy ourselves through your content.
Keep up the great work.
BOOM! Thank god for you Marco! That's why you're the smartest player in the game. Bad players just need to stay away from the Dark Zone if they can't PVP. Or, just play Mass Effect LOL. You have no idea how happy I am about this video dude. Thanks!
Oi m8 don't you badmouth mass effect ... At least not the first 3 games
Epic points of view... absolutely 100% correct about everything you said in this video without a single comment too argue over. Excellent work Marco!
Dude, if I'll ever PvP, that'll be because of this video. Good job.
You and SkillUp have such wonderful points of view on the DZ. both very convincing. I'm both subscribers to you guys. And seeing the diversity in opinions and things that need to be done about the DZ are excellent. I absolutely can't wait to see what Massive has planned. I may not be the "one percent" but I definitely enjoy pvp like anyone else and I know it needs improvements
"This trend of wanting to turn the whole game into a giant care bear zone on behalf of the players that are not willing to put the time in, but still wanting to get all the benefits and the rewards. That has to be shut down."
Well put dude, I agree 100%. Good video man, sad that I missed the stream. Props man.
I really like this idea. Good job Marco, really well done.
Really appreciated.
Everyone who is crying about PvP and the dark zone should watch this video and learn!
Hehe Great stuff as always Marco!
A well done, practical example of the DZ rewarding 'player skill' not only when having a great build... Awesome vid Marco!
Too many times since the release of the game I've seen people drop off of TD and blame many things, except their own skill. Usual case of the 'tradesman blaming the tools'. I know my own skill is not the best and even though I get frustrated as hell in the DZ when the team I'm running keeps going back to the better players (when we aren't grouped up, or ready, or don't focus fire, etc), and continually get melted, I know it's us that is the problem. When we do things right and choose our targets or hunt rogues, we can do an okay job, even me, and that is satisfying.
I love The Division, as it gives me opportunity to look at own skill and not rely on crazy build power to fudge my way into thinking I'm good. The game gives me a challenge and I'm rewarded by having a great bunch of mates to run with, enjoy a joke or laugh, get frustrated and appreciation of finding there will always be better players than myself, yet I can still enjoy THE GAME.
There are always things that can be improved, but the underpinning of what makes this game is great and doesn't really need any major changes, esp the DZ.
Well done Marco and nicely put.
Can't agree more. Finally a videos making sense of the DZ about what it should be and what player should do with it.
Wow skillup's video must've hit you really hard for you to put yourself through all of this to prove a point.
Salim B. it was widdz's idea to prove his point even further, widdz was folding 256 players with purple gear. I probably will never be as good as Marco and widdz but I do practice when I can
MarcoStyle I loved the video, and couldn't agree with you more when it comes to the skill gap. I left a pretty lengthy response to skill ups last video about this topic, and you covered all the points beautifully. I just feel that alot of the player base isn't taking skill ups montra to heart, as I read more comments about people crying, rather than getting good. Awesome video man keep it up.
Clearly it hit TH-camrs who saw that giant comments section and thought "gotta get in on this".
Marco,
I appreciate your efforts, and I really enjoy your build videos ,I am sure many others do as well, they are very informative. All of your video`s on the use of skills are second to none. I really like the reclaimer/medic build, No one on the internet that I could find, has done the testing that you and your friends have, concerning how the skills work (or don`t ) and recorded it for everyone`s benefit, all of the players that have watched your videos on how the medic skills work ect. owe you (and your friends) a thank you, for spending your time testing these skills and making videos for all of us to benefit from. So Thanks Marco and Friend`s.
Believe it or not, this kind of help or really in depth information is actually, pretty rare. Most of the other channels that I have watched about The Division, are videos of DZ game play where the protagonist, is just trash talking or yelling into the microphone at people he killed, or people that killed him and there is no information to be gained by listening to that , so pretty much a waste of time to even go back to that channel because what can you learn about the game by watching some dude run around in a circle and call people bitches for an hour, I have played PvP in many , many games but sometimes when 4 of my best friends are all online, and on Teamspeak at the same time, we would rather coordinate our builds and take on a Heroic mission, as a group and have a ton of fun, instead of going into the DZ, Does this make us "Care Bears"? , IClubCareBears must be directed at PvE players and that`s fine Marco, except that the majority of players that may watch or use one of your builds other than Alpha Bridge, just might be PvE CareBears, so you could be shooting yourself in the foot by disrespecting half of your viewers by naming yourself, IClubCareBears, I dont really care but I think (please dont Gank Me)was a much better all around choice.
No matter what you do, No matter how much purple only gear is used, the fact is, you can never enter the DZ and have no Idea where you are like a new player with purple gear, and no idea where to find caches, vendors or named elites, you can not erase your memory of the map, or the time that you put in playing many hard fought hours in PvP, and the ways to escape a group that you figured out by yourself, you did very well with purple gear in this example, there is no doubt that you know exactly what you are doing, this is not going to happen with someone who just bought the game, more than likely they would post a complaint on the steam forums that they ran into this guy name Iclubcarebears that was the same rank as them and he killed us all with a spoon he had in his back pocket so please.. don`t do this anymore Marco, because we all know you can overcome most situations , What we really need is a very good video of you soloing Clear Sky with one of your builds, you can turn it down to
When it comes down to it, the 1.6 update will change PvP, we dont know how things will change just yet but....
I encourage you all who play The Division to have more respect for each other, because it does not cost you anything to say "Sorry Dude"
Skills matters maybe less than other games but still it's a big factor !! GG Marco
Smeson Yes, but gear is also a big factor in this game.
Anonymous
gear doesn't matter as much anymore though since it is so easy to come across. Also this game takes a different kind of skill than most shooters. Most shooters you use your twitch reflexes to land a couple of bullets. This game however is based on twitch reflexes, aiming consistency, prediction pathing, and pathing consistency. To kill a player with an ar in the game at the highest level you have to be able to land at least 2-3 full kits into that player's head. I know you can obviously kill players faster than this, but if you ever watch people like widdz and exuhz 1v1 people of equal skill it goes all the way down to 0 medkits because hitting a target who is doing a sprint cancel strafe at the right time is extremely hard even for players with god like aim.
The thing is Skill is not isolated to movement, aiming...and attacking people in the DZ...
Skills are ALSO defined by.....How to farm without being engaged by other players. How to extract your loot. How to get out of a 4 man squad trying to jump you....etc etc..
Mercenary 1914 I don't consider any of those things to be skillful at all because they are so easy my 8 year old little sister can do it. She loves the dark zone and all the salty hate messages that comes with it.
this is a great video, and it changed my opinion on the dark zone as a whole. miss you marco!
You gotta understand Marco that everybody now a days is going to be hurt or offended if it's not their way. No matter how much you try to tell them "this is the way it is" they will not listen even if it is fact. I'm not trying to be mean or anything but it is the truth no matter how you look at it.
Great straight up and truthful video. One of the best content creators because of the vast knowledge and understanding you have of this game. Why massive doesn't take your videos and info more into consideration is beyond me? GGs Marco
Marco, can you make a "How to PvP" and go through the fundamentals and/ or advance techniques which you can do in PvP?
This would help people like me, who do ONLY PvE who are trying to get into PvP without getting our ass kicked
Britz Fluffy I'll tell you how to. Learn to hipfire, learn to roll, and learn to use bleed procs to prevent people from running. That's some fundamentals right there.
What advantage does bleed bring to the table? And should I consider predators mark?
Bleed makes a target unable to run(only applies to players). Have you never had bleed proc?
ThatOneGuy Barely, I never really noticed it all that much because I mainly play PvE and bleed only really matters when it's on you...
Britz Fluffy Well, bleed on players causes damage over time and makes you unable to sprint. Bleed on NPCs just applies DoT.
Just yes. Everything you said in this video is spot on!
This is spot on and i hope Massive never caves in to the horde of entitled whiny children that complain about having no skill in DZ...
Paul Masters what's your problem though with a PvE DZ? It just mean you will know face people who will want to PVP! Or do you NEED unwilling players to gank?
My problem is it's not necessary you can gear up way easier with the other forms of PvE but it takes players out of the only real form of PvP depopulating the DZ. The Dark Zone is meant to be for PvP not another loot grind/farm...
getting ganged up on is part of the DZ. dont like it? dont go in there. dont know why this concept is so hard for you pve carebears to understand
DJ1234 SR PvP is allowed ONLY in the DZ. You have 80% of the map to PvE, get out the DZ then. You dont even get the best gear in the DZ.
+Paul Masters +DJ1234 SR I think the essential point here is players want a more challenging PVE experience, and seeing this in the DZ i.e. saturated with more challenging NPCs that respawn quickly instead of daily, weekly or 4 hourly, chests that can be looted over and over, caches that can be looted from cases around the DZ with no real limitation. If the LZ was more like the DZ in this respect there would be no need for a dedicated PVE DZ (maybe the need to include Hard mode on the Tier levels for those wanting more of a challenge?).
Those that like the DZ the way it is (me included), can still farm if we wish to find that piece we are seeking but we also have the excitement of PVP action around the corner. There will always be those that enter the DZ and it will not disappear, but adding more elements of a PVE DZ to the LZ would encourage those that have left the game 'because it is getting boring in the open world' something to do and enjoy till a story expansion etc.
Wow. I never comment on videos but this is one of the most thought out and highly educational content I have ever seen. Well done man. That is awesome!
the simple fact that he says skill is the biggest gap not gear but with all his skill and shitty gear he admits it's a struggle is exactly the point people make about the DZ your gear enhances your skill and until then your skill in the game can't overcome that gap
THANK YOU! Perfect this is what I been DYING TO SEE!!!!
How it is done. I would love to see more vids by the 'others' out there doing the same thing, showing the moves and differences. Hmmmm.
Okay, you have convinced me of what your saying, and your end statement makes alot of sense. Now I understand the "get good" comments by you 1% players whom do put in the honest effort for honest gain and why your viewing it that way. That there is 'tricks' to the game you have to skill into to gain the higher reward.
For every cry baby rage post about DZ pvp/ganking put up on Reddit or Ubisoft Division forums, I'm going to refer them to this video. Well done Marco, Bravo.
Yes Marco! Love the shut down of the Care Bears at the end there too! Top man
Really goes to show how wide the skill gap can be in this game. I like skill gap but it has to be reasonable and in the division the skill gap is not reasonable. PvP in the division is odd at best. Face tanking everything at point blank range while waiting for your opponent to run out of heals. Getting that stun grenade hit so you get a free kill. Using a signature to regen back to full health while still taking hits. It all adds up to a strange PvP experience that many players just don't care for. I think kill times are too long right now and there is too much healing and cover based combat is no where in sight. There is no denying that PvP is just a broken mess right now and it needs to be fixed. The devs wanted it to be a complete troll fest which they somewhat succeeded in but this only appeals to a very small minority of the player base and just runs off everyone else.
Michael Vinson use cover if you don't see it often and you're forgetting this a a RPG/Mmo. Things like talents skills and armor come into play
Royal Solidus What he's saying is that nobody uses cover. There is a skill gap, but the biggest thing is a gear gap.
ThatOneGuy if that's the case elaborate how this guy just went manhunt purple gear and killed mid maxed players with purple gear. Skill gap is way bigger
Royal Solidus He knows the DZ inside and out. But that's what happens when you spend all your time in there. The only skill I can really think of is learning how to hipfire and roll.
I would defs agree there is a skill gap (I'm taking a break before I dive back into the DZ, but in no way am I a skilled DZ player) and it's much bigger than the gear gap. However, Michael does have a point about kill times, as long as it takes so long to down a player, there's no incentive to use cover because people can just facetank and rely on aim skill and strafing. It's not necessarily bad, just prioritizes different skills in the game. It's really up to Massive whether or not they want to incentivize cover more, or leave that aspect of PvP as is.
YOU ARE STUPENDOUS, BRO. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN.
A good Dark Zone is a dirty, challenging and obscure Dark Zone.
they should add "no dz keys lost" to the banshee 4 pc as well imo 😉
I would like to see something like this:
Backpack = Keep most items upon death (Ninja Backpack)
Chest Piece = Prevents Shock Status Effect
Mask = Run and use weapon while on fire (Ferros Mask)
Knee Pads = Allows you to run faster while not rouge "Maybe +2 Speed?"
Gloves = No lost keys if dies to a rouge
Holster = Can still run while on bleed status
experience is the sole reason you progressed as far as you did so quickly. i just got back into it since i bought at launch and ran the same route you did with an experienced player i met at an extraction. got to were i mow npcs but lack pvp experience. but I'm workin on it!
Congrats, you proved someone with 1000+ hours in darkzone can gear up in darkzone on a new character.
honestdude I mean he even showed you how to exactly, essentially this is what solo plebs who have no skill in pvp have been complaining about. The fact of the matter, the indisputable truth is; you need actual player to player positioning and skill to play the darkzone.
Royal Solidus You have to learn how to spray and pray, and how to roll. That's not skill, that's shitty design.
+ThatOneGuy lol and the lag is pretty bad
honestdude this yes
So your suggesting that when a player hip fires they are not aiming their shot?
See, that might be why you get folded.
Glad that somebody finally made a thorough video with multiple levels of proof to tear down the idea of completely changing the DZ. The community is split in half because of this, and I agree with skillup when he says that the divide is a bad thing. However, complaining about the Dark Zone and thinking that changing it is going to bring the community back together is not the right way to go about things, especially when he has such influence on the way people see the game. Great video and I hope that this changes some minds
The ending of this video was kinda all over the place. The original video was just you disagreeing with SkillUp's idea of going into the DZ with set gear so everyone is equal, however at the end of this you also threw in the idea of making the DZ a carebear arena needs to go. Some people that want PvE DZ aren't necessarily carebears. The LZ is just too big with too little mob density to efficiently farm it and still have fun. The DZ is the opposite. The mob density is just perfect, and the environment itself is just way better and more atmospheric than the LZ.
I seriously can't see how the PvE DZ is a bad idea. It's the same as getting look in the PvE area, and if you want to try out your build in PvP, then you go do PvP DZ. There is a pretty big skill gap, yes, but there is also a huge build gap. Certain compositions of builds can make a team unstoppable, whether they are garbage players or not. As a mix player, I'd rather fight players of my skill level, because I'd rather not get shit on, or shit on other players because it just doesn't feel fun. With the PvE DZ, that most likely would be solved. PvE DZ would give all the lesser geared or PvE oriented players a place to go when their buddies aren't online, or when they just want a place to burn time, and the people in the PvP DZ would be more willing to actually do PvP, making the battles much more enjoyable and much more worth it. The amount of people I see get shit on in the DZ when trying to solo farm is unbelievable. It's no fun for anyone, and if you get fun out of killing solo farmers while in a group, you're awful. I can only see positives out of getting a PvE DZ.
Marco, you are the LAW! Thank you very much for yours videos. I like it very bloody much. Greetings from Bulgaria!
I went from gs 185 to 202 in 2 hours playing underground
Great Job, great words and great Video. Like the last time you once again bring it to the point, there is nothing left to say.
Thx you so much !
So, let me see if I understand this video properly. You decked yourself out in purples with the intent of soloing the Dark Zone. Then, when you ran into trouble, you opted to match-make into an alternate Dark Zone where you were no longer experiencing the caustic PVP which was preventing you from extraction. You just proved the point of many of the people you're railing against. You' act as though queueing for an alternate Dark Zone is a genius maneuver no solo player has ever thought of. But first things first, people have to be able to escape the Dark Zone WITH the loot they had for changing instances to be worthwhile. There's an infinite number of factors (your position, rogue positions, land obstacles, knowledge of map, etc; etc;) that will contribute to whether or not another player can successfully escape an engagement. And, if those players outnumber and outgear you - forget it. What you proved was that you had to sneak out in order for your extraction to even be possible. Your escape had nothing to do with you being skilled or the other players being skilled. You were forced to use the game in a way that was not necessarily intended to avoid losing everything you had received during that play session. Was this the wise choice? Yes. Is it good game play? Hell no. Being forced into a specific play-style (hiding in the shadows and praying no one is behind you) isn't PVP. That's PVE with a bunch of people PVPing around you.
While this holds truth, he wanted to show that you can do it alone with shitty gear. And in a geargame you're not really supposed to beat players who are better geared than you let alone outnumber you.
If you play solo with shitty gear he showed a fair way to still get loot and survuve.
Thats exactly what the dark zone is its a pve place with people pvping around u, thats the point its a different experience and a break from all the call of duty multiplayer normal pvp games
I guess you missed the part where it only takes 5-10 minutes to rack up a full bag of loot.
To be honest most of the fights are ability, medkit, grenade and roll spams. Then after that you are allowed to get a kill so long as you have the right OP gear, team mates, and the hit detection doesnt decide to fuck you.
I don't even play the division nor do I watch it on TH-cam and yet I still find your videos entertaining. Bravo.
You just watched it on TH-cam.
True
I fucking hate hackers!
I miss marco's division videos. Hands down the best division TH-camr there is.
I don't pvp much, but I 100% agree with you : don't make the DZ a pve zone !
Respect! Great vid with very valid points. I'm not that good in PVP Dark Zone and I've never cried about it. It's part of the game. I just practice and try to get better. You've earned a sub.
Your point is just a 10 minute video with the whole point basically being "get good bro"
not everyone is good at games, not everyone has the capacity to learn and improve, not everyone has youtube channel showcasing skills on games.
whether you like it or not you are in the 1%
the dark zone is not fun, and needs fixing, it is not enjoyable when you are solo, and have medium gear or high end gear, the division community is the worst online gaming community I have ever been involved with and I'm 40 and have been around snce the first CODS. The toxic community has ruined the experience let's face it even rival division uploaders hate each other, troll each other, and make response videos, so when the community "leaders" don't get along what hope does the game have. It's full of cheaters hackers and gankers, that will than troll you with messages and clapping over your corpse, the %of pvp encounters where you lose and think "that was close gg" is low,which is a shame, I like the dark zone because it is not monotonous I'm facing elite enemies and danger at every turn,and to earn my rewards I have to face more danger by extracting, I don't want to grind out the same mission for 3 days straight, I'm a pve player, but I like pvp encounters, it is sadly not balanced, there should be a matchmaking option. PVE and PVP dark zone, a team based matchmaking option and a solo option,.
" 1% " is an excuse that entitled marxist millennial cunts throw around bc they suck, in game and at life.....and they suck precisely bc of that mindset. I assure you they stomp their feet and scream at anyone who has had more success than them in life, crying " lucky 1%...wahhhhhhh". You're 40, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's a disgusting parasitic mindset and it destroys entire nations. And BULLSHIT, everyone has the capacity to learn and improve, it's literally the engine of evolution, it's inherent to the design of life you miserable failure. Quit spreading your cancer.
Thank you for posting this marco! I was getting worried when skill up was doing his carebear crusade but im glad you understand what the division is and what the darkzone is. Too many people would rather bitch and whine to change the game rather than put in the time to get better at it.
7:53 is the exact moment, why ppl want a PvE DZ. This isn't fun.
Lmao dont play DZ then, that is exactly the point of the DZ, to fuck people.
Fuchs Fred be observant and stay away from that area, I run into solo players daily and just avoid them or wait for them to pass
+Fuchs Fred the point of the DZ is exactly what you dont like. That's why they made the PVE area drop gear like Candy. It was to appease people like you who don't like the fuckery in the DZ....
In all honesty....you can avoid all those things by avoiding people.. If you are in the DZ to farm...farm places like contaminated zones and underground....if you see rogues pinging in south, go farm up north..if there are rogues all over your map. Just server transfer. Call fake extractions...
Play the DZ like it's end game...don't go in there half assing it. The DZ was supposed to be our end game along with incursions....but people cried so much...the DZ has become only a place to commit fuckery.
Fuchs Fred you really think a pve darkzone would be fun that sounds so boring why would someone ever want that
Kingserpent 101 I'm guessing because not everyone is really into PvP. I'm not really. but I still go in the dz just for laughs. I always enjoy the appreciation I get when someone kills me!!! ha ha. but luckily for me I have the cruisey attitude. you die in the dark zone rogue or not rogue you don't really lose anything. but I understand not everyone has a care free attitude so would like to just farm the dark zone without the grief.
higher enemy density. different darker atmosphere. I'd kind of like the idea of a dark zone ( or another large area) with really hard enemies, a bit like in 1.3 where it was a real challenge.
Well done! If people don't understand this video there is no point of making another because you explained everything very very well...
I don't want the DZ to be some kind of care bear zone.
I'm good at pve but suck at pvp. Even watching you pvp makes me cringe. I love your videos they're very informative but the crazy high sensitivity zig zagging, the ridiculous close quarters hip fire dance you do... Playing like that does not interest me. Even if I could kill everyone doing that shit I never would. The problem is the DZ isn't JUST a pvp zone. It has pve content and it's abundantly clear a big chunk of development time was spent on it.
That's a problem because the overwhelming majority hate it as well. It's a big chunk of the game that most of the player base hates. That's an issue they need to take seriously going forward for the division 2.
As a casual-core player, was really interested to see this video. Thanks for putting this together, Marco!
Marco, your video means that if people play in dark zone for hundreds and thousands of time like hard core players like you, they will not die even with wearing purple gears. It does not make sense for average players. If you put one of your friends who can play The Division for 2 - 3 hours per day because of working and show if he can play like you, It would be better and more persuasive. I'm not saying you are totally "wrong." I agree that there is no huge problem in DZ at all. but its just your video tells that " just become hard core player " like you.
Finally someone that posts something exactly how I was thinking. How is a guy who plays the Division for fun, and not to be on youtube or Twitch and plays 2-4 hours a day supposed to even compete with people that play 8-12 hours a day? That is what is a bit frustrating with alot of these vids, they keep saying "Noob build", but they seem to forget what a real Noob build is or would be and have items no noob would have. A shame DZ is mainly gank, but will stick to the PvE areas myself since I am a total solo player.
Just don't gear up in the dark zone if you aren't good at pvp, it's really not that complicated, come back when you have better gear
OMG Marco the way you ended this video had me in stitches!!!
Widdz did some 1vs1 with purple gear (204GS) against 256GS and won... LUL
I'm still new to The Division, but I definitely agree. Only recently have I delved into the dark zone and I have found it very enjoyable. If they were to simply take away the pve + pvp aspect as Skillup and many others are now requesting, I'm not sure what I would be grinding for right now. Keep up the good work, man.
Stop trying to stroke your ego.
Joshua McClellan elaborate, do you feel you can say that because despite what he was wearing he accomplished thing where your skill level cannot?
Royal Solidus It just seems like he's just saying hey look at how good I am at the game. Don't just assume someone can't play the game just cause they make a comment it seemed like he was just stroking his ego. And I wasn't speaking to you so shut the fuck up.
Joshua McClellan coming from some kid who says "it just seems" you literally hold zero merit here, because "what it seems" like is you can't wrap your head around anything he is saying.
Get Good.
sir this whole video was made to prove the argument that skill actually provides a bigger gap between players than gear does, and if you are not comfortable with yourself enough to watch him use only his own skill to prove this point then you should not watch this video. simple as that.
+Joshua mcClellan Stop trying to deceitfully dismiss legitimate positions while contributing nothing yourself.
Thank you for your video. It really gives me the confidence to step into the dz as a solo player. Getting loot and fighting mobs are no issue for me, but I think I have a preset mind set that if I don't have a perfect build that I can't fight. Thus I don't get practice, and thus I'm bad at the game. It's a vicious circle and I'm glad you broke it. Thank you again and as always I really enjoy your content.
Great video and break down. Most of my group has between 10 and 20 hours and we can shred in the DZ and of course get shredded. We're on PS4 and it doesn't matter if I am running a gold build, alpha, firecrest etc. I can play the way I want to play with the stats I want without taking a big hit to DPS or Toughness. Before patch 1.4 I wouldn't go into the dark zone solo and now I do it all the time. It does take time to learn how to engage multiple players solo or with a disadvantaged team but after a few hours of doing it someone can learn how to maneuver and when to use what items or skills. Keep up the good work bro.
I just can confirm everything you said. The DZ is fine - sure some finetuning would be fine, but I really like it as it is now. Because it gives me the feeling of real survival, because everything and everyone can (may, or may not) kill you. I watched the video and felt like I want to test this out. Got myself a pretty allrounded banshee-built, because I didn't want to lose money and yeah.. everything is just like you said: had really good solo extractions, teamed up with some random guy who left after a few minutes, had fights with some gankers, but could avoid,or lose them in the subways. was fun.
I don't undestand what skill up is bugging so much, his ideas to "make the dz better" overshoot the target waaaaaay too far and some are exactly the opposite of what the DZ is about.
I like your videos, man. Keep it up!
I've argued this skill gap point for a long time I just don't have a platform like you to articulate it. As always, fantastic job Marco.
Great video bro! I wasn't completely on your page till watching this and I completely agree now! Well done. Keep up the great work!!
Man.... I was blown away with the hip fire kills and was so excited to get on and try it more than realized this was old. Oh how i miss the old hip fire =[
Very well spoken and explained, I am a PvE player and even I can see your debate on SkillUps video is overwhelmingly sensible.
i dont get how you do so well with builds like this i just get instantly melted
I watched the whole stream and I have to say that this was a perfect example of what an experienced player can do even with sub optimum gear. Skill over gear wins!!
MarcoStyle is on point as usual!
Marco you did amazing job and that video is truly inspiring, however I am new to this game and I have been to DZ couple of times, so knowing that to do and where to go closes the gap also between you and other players, adding to that your godly reflexes and skills.
So for mature player like me we do not even stand a chance.
You do have a very valid/solid point that practice is a must and you must know your environment and also the game pretty well.
Even playing the game +60 hours will not give me enough skills to match the 1% like you, your mamma ave birth to you on a mouse and keyboard, mine just gave birth in regular hospital.
Keep up the good work bro.
I have to say I totally agree with you Marco. I have been playing this game since 1.2 and probably 80% of my time in the DZ was spent doing it solo and I learned that if I wanted loot the thing to do was play smart. I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't have moments that I was frustrated but most of those were because I didn't walk away when a group of Rogues were coming my way. Sometimes I would choose to PVP after spending time collecting loot and I have fun doing both activities. I am definitely not the top 1% but I do just fine for myself. Keep on my making good content.
I love it when people back up their arguments with hard proof that they can show to their audiences right there and then. People will always think they're right, and when they're proved wrong they can't ever seem to accept it right away. Being frustrated is part of almost any video game, and unless you understand that and accept it, you're not going to have a good time. A tip of my hat to you, Marco! 🎩👏
Diggin your videos and your gameplay. As much as this game can get on my last nerve, still one of my favs and I've sunk almost 40 logged days into my first character
It's good to see this vid, I play the game solo by myself I usually have bad luck with loot and other players, seeing the live stream and how you looted in dz6 makes me think about how I play. I spend nearly all my time in dz1 &2 but I think me going higher will make the game even more fun
My god marco, going for the jugular with that ending. Well done.
CobaltRose249 but still missed if you consider the PvP to be fucking dire in this game and it's nothing to do with rewards, killing, dying, griefing etc. It's just fucking rubbish to play! Also, while he was 'going for the jugular' the video showed him zigzagging, spamming grenades at his own feet, circling, hip firing, waiting for cooldowns while doing all this for skills to come back up. Not knocking Marco, it's how the game must be played and he's exceedingly good at it, but that doesn't change the whole mechanics of it being shit.
Great video Marco. Having been a day one player since the beta i can say that unlike the dreaded pay gap, the skill gap is absolutely REAL and YUGE. Despite all the patches and gameplay changes i managed to farm to dz99 largely solo on my first character and always found it silly how all the whiners couldn't seem to figure out how risk assessment, situational awareness, map knowledge/escape routes, aggro pulling, various combat nuances, and general avoidance techniques are all integral to success in the DZ. Preach on brotha.
Great video, Marco!
Too Many players out there thinking they are entitled to all the rewards with ,what they they see, is enough work.
Great vid brother. this is why i sub you man. i am that solo player who doesnt understand build mechanics and plays on console. its hard at times sure. but i always leave your vids knowing a little more to help keep me alive that little bit longer dude. Thank you man
@MarcoStyle You sir have outdone yourself this time. Cheers mate.
long live king Marco! ! great vid! like always.
Great job Marco, I have a new respect for you.
I applaud you bro 👊🏽 Love the video and that should put the point out, and I admit, I'm not that good in the DZ, but I still love it! The only problem I had was losing xp every time I got killed by rogues but I started running Banshee and that solved that problem. So theirs always a solution to something other then changing the entire game around non experienced players 👍🏽
Kudos just for making this video and actually proving a point behind your chit-chat.
This is a awesome black and white video!!! THANK YOU!
Good video dude, I really enjoy your streams as well. They are verry informative which is verry rare on twitch. Keep up the good work Marco! :)
I can't wait for the comment " but...but...but your purple build is better than my gold build"
omg fuk yea im subbing dude, i loved the point you made about people saying you couldnt do what you did with purple gear b.c you are the one percent...b.c this is exxxactly what i did to get up to tier 5 and how i got my first few set pieces...i went in there and grinded the dz all by my lonesome and extracted a shit ton of sealed caches lol^^ youre awesome man.
You said "care bear zone" that was awesome! I'm not as good as many players but I am trying to improve my skill, running different builds and engaging in PvP. Like you said, I'll never get better if I don't practice.
Could not agree more with everything you said in this video! I played solo since launch and knew that in my decision to do so the game was going to be very hard, not only can you do all the things you said 9/10 times someone is inviting you to a group so you're never solo for long. So sick of the community trying to baby the dark zone, you know what it is going in there and make the choice to do so
This is how we win an argument. Well played Marco