I am a confessional (1689) Baptist, and I really appreciate both you and Michael Vlach. I am premillennial, and I hold to a futurist interpretation of Revelation. Thank you for making these videos. Keep them coming!
Bruce Gore's Revelation series really brought so much clarity to my understanding!! Also, his church history videos, particularly the ones on dispensationalism.
Thank you so much Peter for another fantastic video. Also liked your shirt with the Shark (Greg Norman) logo. You play chess and golf? Great combination.
I may have missed it but the following verse is seldom included by Futurists: Revelation 1:19 (YLT) 'Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things’ This verse indicates that John had NO intentions of writing about the distant future. We can probably trust the time statements given to the original audiences.
@@thebiblesojourner Thank you for the response. I of course meant to write that John had NO intentions directed towards the distant future. Only the past, present and time about to come. This confirms the imminent statements you mentioned in Rev. 1:1,3; 22:6:10, the bookends of the prophecy. This was about the imminent judgment on mystery Babylon aka Old Covenant Israel the harlot who had become like God’s enemies Babylon, Egypt and Sodom. God bless you brother.
I don't believe you watched the whole video, brother. The Joel part explains. Joel uses language to indicate a "sooner rather than later" day of the Lord, and clearly, it wasn't... soon is a subjective term and statement for time, and I find it incorrect and in error to apply what you believe and see as "soon" to your hermeneutics. Not saying you're wrong, but just be careful with how you interpret things when it comes to subjective matters.
The chronological timeline through history follows the great statue of Gentile man's kingdom in Daniel. The split of the two legs which make up the kingdom of Rome happens in the 4th century. The ten kings/toes/horns follow in succesion. And out if which the very last kingdom of the little horn (power/kingdom comes to be brought to a close.
To my count, Paul references the Second Coming at least 80 times in his 13 epistles. Frequently, he is exhorting us to look for His coming in the clouds, to be ready for the Bema, to live in a way to receive rewards (one of which is a crown for eagerly anticipating and loving His appearing!), etc. The postmill form of preterism robs the believer of that blessed hope. Why are they so bent on denying the imminence of Christ's return?
Yes! Paul is very passionate about the imminence of Christ’s return. And to answer your question, I think some preterists mean well, and others are simply contrarian.
It’s not that we are trying to “rob anyone” of anything. It’s that we are trying to help you realize that we are in the Daniel 2 and Rev 11 kingdom of Christ right now, and act like it! :) for example John says: “John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.” Revelation 1:4-6 ESV This shows a couple of astounding things: 1.) John believe Jesus was already the “ruler of kings on earth” at the time of writing. Which means Rev 11’s 7th trumpet must have already sounded, and Jesus began to reign. 2.) John says that Jesus made them a Kingdom, and he and his audience were already priests to God. This is astounding because in Rev 5, the angel says that Jesus ransomed a people who will reign in the earth… which means that is a past event recorded in Rev 5 and John is writing after it. Far from robbing people of Christ’s return we are instead pleading for you to believe him when he said he was returning in the same generation as he lived. Hardly anyone believes him.
@@gregmahler9506 _"1.) John believe Jesus was already the “ruler of kings on earth” at the time of writing. Which means Rev 11’s 7th trumpet must have already sounded, and Jesus began to reign."_ You're trying to prove too much. I believe Jesus was the ruler of kings on earth at the time of Nimrod and Noah, but that's not the same as the prophecy of Revelation 11 when He comes to earth to rule and reign on David's throne. These are two different forms of His rule over the earth. _"2.) John says that Jesus made them a Kingdom, and he and his audience were already priests to God. This is astounding because in Rev 5, the angel says that Jesus ransomed a people who will reign in the earth… which means that is a past event recorded in Rev 5 and John is writing after it."_ Again, you are missing the fact that these are two different forms of ruling and reigning. _"...we are instead pleading for you to believe him when he said he was returning in the same generation as he lived."_ Genea almost always means "people group." Even Sproul pointed this out, saying that we need to be careful not to make genea mean something that it rarely means in Scripture (a period of time rather than a people group). You have to ignore all the proximal times Jesus refers to "this generation" as Israel as a whole. For example, He speaks of the ones who killed the prophets. It wasn't His contemporaries who killed the prophets, was it? No, it was their ancestors who killed the prophets; yet, Jesus can say to those standing in front of Him that "their wicked and perverse generation" killed the prophets. What He meant was that their people group, Israel, killed the prophets.
I don't have his email, but like you, he can be reached in various ways per his channel on youtube and his internet sight. He appears to have multiple avenues of contact. If you really want to make it happen. I have seen him pop up in chats on youtube, willing to have a discussion on his point of view.
Rev 3:11: Behold, I am coming QUICKLY! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. (Christ speaking to the church at Philadelphia, emphasis mine) Ok, Jerusalem destroyed in AD70, but Philadelphia is 600 miles away. If Christ "came" in AD70, what effect do preterists think this had on Philadelphia? Just seems so strange. In Gentry's eyes the 7 churches are tied in with AD70 in some way, but I don't get it.
Daniel was told to seal up his prophecy in Chapter 12 which was written about 1000 years before the events. Jesus told John not to seal up his prophecy in Chapter 22.... and yet we are still waiting for John's to come to pass? Why didn't Jesus tell him to seal it like the angel told Daniel? Hint: It's because it was REALLY about to take place.
The only reason we have all these different arguments and opinions is because everyone believes in the future physical return of Christ. BUT , why not see that Christ is come to and in His body, will continue to come, until we are all changed and Christ, Head and body, is made visible to creation. For creation is groaning for the manifestation of the sons of God.
....Daniel was about 600 to 550 years before Christ. In any case, Nero does not fit the criteria for the Beast in Revelation 13. Their c.v. do not match, the Great Tribulation wasn't in the first century and what follows in from the seven year Tribulation is the Millennium and that clearly has not happened, yet. @@gregmahler9506
Likewise, if a thousand years is like a day, then the Millennium of Christ Jesus could be seen to have been fulfilled in a single day! That is when the Lord came in glory, in judgement, at the resurrection of the just and the unjust, in AD70. All has been fulfilled. The old has passed, and the new has come. The Kingdom is here, if only we would see it and partake in it. The messiah's coming was missed by the majority back in Jesus' day, and so too his _parousia_ and kingdom has been missed by many since.
Christ would not tell Jacob His name in Genesis 32:29. In Judges 13:17-18 He told Manoah His name was secret. At the very end of the Book in Revelation 19:12, at Armageddon, He still has this unknown name. It is the name of God, His new name, that He will write upon us after He returns (Revelation 3:12). Which means this name cannot be found in the Bible. If Christ returned 1,954 years ago in 70AD, then surely by now at least 1 preterist should be able to tell us what this new name is....but none can. And if He returned 1,954 years ago in 70AD surely at least 1 preterist would call Him by this new name....but they do not. When a bride (church) takes her husband's (Christ) name it is not a forgettable moment, so why can't the 70 ADeists tell us this name? In Zephaniah 3:8-9 we read that at His coming we will serve Him with 1 consent & 1 pure language. If He came back in 70 AD, why have we had multiple consents (denominations) & multiple languages (doctrines) ever since 70AD? At Christ's return the 7th trumpet sounds & "there should be time no longer"....yet here we are 1,954 years later & preterists still use schedules, calendars, & alarm clocks. 1 Corinthians 11:26 says that we take communion until He comes again. So if He came back in 70AD why do preterists still take communion today? Christ said the tribulation would be like no other time in history. More Jews were killed in WW2 than during the 70AD siege of Jerusalem. Revelation 18:21 says that harlot city will be thrown down & never found again....but Jerusalem stands today. And archaeologists have been unearthing things related to the 2nd temple. Did the Bible lie or are preterists deceived? Jesus told Peter that we must forgive our brother until 70×7. This wasn't random numbers. God does not speak flippantly. These numbers were a direct reference to the 70 weeks prophecy. After 70 weeks we get new sinless perfect bodies at the resurrection/rapture. After that we won't need to forgive or be forgiven by our brother because we will be sinless. Are we sinless now? No. Are we still required to forgive our brother today? You better believe it. That means that 70×7 has not happened yet. It didn't happen at the cross & it did not happen at 70AD.
Brother, are you familiar with Irenaeus teaching about how and when to calculate the number ? Sorry if you mentioned it. Wife has the tv turned up and I'm having trouble trying to follow.😂
A little, very little, pejorative at times. Yes, we all have our views , world views, personal upbringing and context. But, we all strive for internal consistency in our own minds. Thank you for calling us preterists, friends. Love br. David - Canada.
After the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD and the coming of Christ, the concept of a physical "House of God" or "House of worship" lost its biblical significance. In the New Testament, Jesus emphasized that true worship is no longer tied to a specific location. In John 4:21-24, He teaches that "true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth," rather than in a specific building like the Temple. The early Church understood that the believers themselves were now the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16, Ephesians 2:19-22), making the idea of a physical building as "God's house" obsolete. Calling a building the "House of God" ignores the New Testament teaching that God’s presence dwells within His people, not in man-made structures. Therefore, attributing sacredness to church buildings reflects a misunderstanding of the spiritual nature of the Church post-Christ’s resurrection and the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple.
Do you believe Christ presently has a resurrected body? Scriptures say the church is His body so if we stay consistent with your interpretation of texts then we must believe Jesus no longer has a body and is just a floating head in heaven.
@@j7489 I don't have the answer. What physical body will you have in heaven if you get eaten by a Grizzly bear? Bear crap? Jesus had his wounds with his resurrection body.
One of the things that I am surprised that you did not bring up was the rebukes of the 7 churches as it would be 5-8 years after their establishments. There is no pattern of rebuking in the Old Testament that soon although there is towards the generation following. 20 some years after their establishments makes much more sense.
Good point. I tried to talk a little bit about that in the previous video, especially with some of the specific churches having circumstances that seem to require more time.
When futurists say that a pre 70 AD dating would not disprove their futurism, this is the single most disingenuous thing they could say that immediately robs them of their credibility. That is plainly and glaringly a signal of a commitment to a theological system rather than honest exegetical deduction. It does not have even the semblance of reasonableness to say that if it could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Revelation was seen and written in say 63 or 64 AD, that it is still likely that it was referencing events thousands of years in the future pertaining to a future temple even when the one right in front of them was still standing. That is desperate and shows that it really isn’t about trying to arrive at truth but about rescuing a theological system at all costs. If you stood to gain large sums of cash by placing a bet on what the truth of the matter was in such a scenario, and you didn’t have to tell any of your futurist friends how you got the money, we all know that you would be an absolute fool to bet futurist. Please stop with this particular line, it is bad faith. I’m willing to say as a (still) convinced preterist that my reading depends on the date, futurists should too.
I appreciate your comment my friend and will take it in good spirit. But are you saying you do not see the difference between the two ideas? It is completely different for a preterist because his position literally cannot exist if Revelation was written after 70 AD. But alternatively, it literally does not matter when the book was written for the futurist, because it was talking about the far future. The simple point (which I’m surprised you are missing) is that the preterist has his back against the wall with no flexibility. The futurist position does not depend on dating the book. Similarly, the idealist position does not depend on the dating of the book (because it is the symbol that matters not the timing). It truly is *only* the preterist position where the date truly matters. This is acknowledged by preterist and non preterist alike, so I’m unsure why this is such a sticking point for you. But I hope my comment will help clarify that. Blessings to you and may God help you grow into the likeness of Christ!
@thebiblesojourner I understand your point, and to be clear Peter, I have always appreciated your goodwill in interacting with us Preterist/Postmill/Theonomy guys. Please don’t take my tone wrongly, what I am saying is that the observation you are making is only TECHNICALLY true, but if our goal is trying to discern the truth as best we can, then this observation really is moot because I think it is as plain as the noon day sun that IF we could definitively demonstrate an early date to such a certainty that no one could rationally contend it, we all know that it would have undeniable implications. To try to put it another way, my annoyance with this particular talking point is it strikes me as something like this: Let’s say we we dug up a 1st century chest that had a copy of Revelation that scholars dated to 73 AD, and this particular manuscript contained the phrase in 1:9, “ I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos, sent thither by Nero because of the word of God and the witness of Jesus…” Now let’s say that was dug up in ancient Smyrna. Let us also press the story by saying that we found an even earlier copy in Jerusalem that scholars dated to 63 and it had the same reading with an additional comment in the side column stating, “the elders of the seven churches urge you all to flee the city in haste, the Lord’s parousia as spoken by our brother Matthew is at hand.” - I know, I know, just work with me. Finally, let’s say that we found a previously unknown letter of Iranaeus and in it he stated, “Some have misconstrued my meaning as to thinking I intended to convey John beheld his vision under Domitian, of course that is not my contention…” In this outlandish scenario I have made, for someone to say, “Well… TECHNICALLY futurism COULD still be true” would simply be incredible. Of course TECHNICALLY a proposition as it is stated can be true, but that is not how we think through things. There is more going on in making interpretive decisions. Yes, if we plug in the formula’s based on technicalities then Preterism inherently fails if the late date is established and futurism can stand if the early date is established. What I am saying is that is such a bad faith framing of the situation that I am shocked it’s even rolled out as a bolstering point. It doesn’t convey strength to me, it conveys the opposite honestly. Stick with legitimate arguments like Iranaeus, like deviant spellings of Nero, like the presence of Timothy in Ephesus etc. These are fair and have actual weight of consideration. But this business of “the late date is fine with an early date” just makes me say, “Okay, this is not a serious discussion anymore.” Thanks for your charity brother.
For people who comment like this I like to point them to my collection of evidence against them: -Jesus’s Testimony- “For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” - Matthew 16:27-28 “Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” - John 21:22 -Peter’s Testimony- “The end of all things is at hand…” - 1 Peter 4:7 “And after you have suffered A LITTLE WHILE, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will HIMSELF restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.” - 1 Peter 5:10 -John’s Testimony- “...the world is passing away along with its desires… it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.” - 1 John 2:17-18 -James’s Testimony- “Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord… Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door.” - James 5:7-9 -Paul’s Testimony- “…The Lord is at hand;” - Philippians 4:5b “This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away.” - 1 Corinthians 7:29-31 “Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.” - 1 Corinthians 10:11 “For he says, “In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.” - 2 Corinthians 6:2 “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet…” - Romans 16:20a -Revelation’s Testimony- “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that MUST SOON TAKE PLACE. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John… Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for THE TIME IS NEAR.” - Revelation 1:1-3 “And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what MUST SOON TAKE PLACE. And behold, I am COMING SOON. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book… And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for THE TIME IS NEAR… Behold, I am COMING SOON, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.” - Revelation 22:6-12 “He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am COMING SOON.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!” - Revelation 22:20
Peter, don't toss out resources that you recommend we research and then NOT provide the links to where we can find them! Who is Jeremy Sexton? Mishka? Give us a place to look where we can find their work! Thanks.
I am justly chastened! I have added links to website/social media profile to be able to track some of their stuff in the video description. Thanks, Fred!
The 7 kings of Revelation are not the only issue neither. The 10 kings who give their authority to the beast is probably a bigger issue. They at least try making the the 7 kings work though they epicly fail but there is no way they can ever tell us of a 10-king confederation that gave their authority to the beast anywhere between 66-70 AD. Neither can they tell us of the 3 kings uprooted by one.
Under Julius Caesar, Rome was still a republic, just as Rome was under Sulla who also held the office of Dictator. Dictator was an official position used during a time of upheaval in the period of the Republic. Augustus is most definitely the first Emporer fir which there were five of the Julian-Claudian dynasty. Augustus (aka Octavian), Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero. Thete there is the 'year of four emporers' of which the fourth is Vespasian who was the first of three emporers of the Flavian dynasty. Vespasian, Titus and Domitian.
A lot of scholars who hold to a symbolic view of revelation dated in the 90s or sometimes later because their system is not at stake, and the evidence clearly leads that way. Beale is a top notch scholar (though I disagree with him on many things).
And yet no one seems to know of or speak of a very clear fulfillment of prophecy in our recent history. We (U.S.A.) are the ones who brought down fire from heaven in Aug. of 1945 and we are the ones that gave life to the image of the beast in May of 1948. Rev 13:13-15 (KJV). The prophecy, 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, Rev 13:13 (KJV) The fulfillment, The United States detonated two atomic bombs over the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on 6 and 9 August 1945, respectively. “In the sight of men”, means this was done on the world stage during WWII (the second “woe”). The prophecy, 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, …Rev 13:15 (KJV) The fulfillment, On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day. This was done using the power and prestige the U.S. earned by the act of bringing fire down from the heaven (sky). It is said that God will bless those who bless Israel, and this is true, but the following verses show us that the “Israel in the middle east is false” and is not to be blessed. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is PARTAKER of his EVIL DEEDS. 2 John 1:9-11 (KJV) AND 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9 (KJV) You can’t have it both ways, 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1:8 (KJV) 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. Matt 21:43-44 (KJV) And 15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: Isaiah 65:15 (KJV). The second beast of lies, saying “one nation under God” and “in God we trust”, indeed the “father of lies”, did bring fire from the heaven, (Greek Strong's Number: 3772...(through the idea of elevation); the SKY...), and did set up a false Israel in the middle east, (proven false by this verse among others 9 ...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, HE IS NONE OF HIS. Romans 8:9 (KJV)). This Israel has been and is the catalyst of “wars and rumors of wars” making it the image of the first beast of warmongering , Germany, who’s head was wounded in WWI(1st harvest, woe) and healed enough to bring about WWII(2nd harvest, woe). You couldn’t get a better fulfillment of prophecy. For these events to happen again would negate the prophecies altogether. And it is asinine to think these events are happenstance and ignored by the prophecies of God. No sir, either God’s timing is off or yours is. And this leaves only one “woe”(WWIII) left, the war that God hates (abomination), a war that makes the world desolate. 7th trump and bowl are simultaneous and plunge the world into 3½ yrs of great tribulation. If the truth were being told then the prophecy of Matt. 24:14 would have occurred years ago, shortly after the advent of the world-wide-web. This fact proves that the prominent teachers are false teachers. I suggest you forget all that you have been taught and come to the bible (KJV) with sincere want for truth, and not to consume it upon your lusts, but that you may do true worship and obedience to God, with a repentant heart, and with reason and logic the Spirit of God will teach.11 … in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11 (KJV) All glory to God. Amen
Consistent Preterism I really dont know what to say about the point of, if Revelation was written in ad90 that Preterism falls on its face. What I will say is, this can be said of any teaching. Let me explain, if you cannot contextually and hermeneutically, show a “gap” in Daniel 9 the 70 weeks, which you cannot show, then futurism falls flat on its face. So much I want to say on Revelation with every chapter showing unquestionable evidence that Revelation to written before ad70, yet because of the sheer volume and irrefutable “internal evidence” for the early date, and so much space here, I thought I would set the proper foundation, for understanding the entire book of Revelation. Hermeneutically you cannot take the letter as here in Revelation, from the intended Audience it was written to nor, “their” time statements, as we will see. Preterist will always start with Hermeneutics, the rules of interpretating scripture. The first rule is “Audience Relevance,” what revelance was it, to who it was written and handed too. Anything not logical so far? CH1, please take time to read and see how clear the message is, that it was written to the seven Churches in Asia, in fact names each one specifically. Revelation was written to them, for them, Rev1:1 is the referent passage for the entire book. In fact, this is the reason it was written, that is, to “tell them of things shortly to come.” Hermeneutics has a famous axiom: “If the plain sense makes good sense, seek no other sense.” How can anyone read chapter 1 and not see it was to them, for them, things they would shortly see? Notice all of the first generation fulfilled language as we go. Seven churches in Asia, telling “them” what things are shortly to come. This is, their time statements not ours, it is, not shortly to us, but shortly to them, Audience Relevance. If I showed you a letter I found from my great, great grandfather to my great, great grandmother where, In the late 1,800’s he was coming home, and will see her “shortly”, and I told you I was so excited, that I was about to meet him because, the letter clearly said, he’ll be here shortly, look for yourself. What would you think of me? I’ve lost my mind, right ? See this breaks the rules of interpretation, audience relevance, it was relevant for my great, great, grandmother, only and in her time, in the late 1,800’s. This is not for anyone else nor for another time frame. Does fulfilled still seem logical? Then Rev1:7 when He comes on the clouds, “ those who pierced Him will see Him.” Contextually seamlessly this goes Perfectly with, what Jesus said Matt 16:27, 28 “Some standing here will not die until they see His coming in power”, in fact contextually compare Scripture References: Revelation 1:7; Daniel 7:13; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 24:30; Matthew 4:17; Matthew 23:37-38; Acts 3:19-20; Acts 21:20; Revelation 22:12; Revelation 1:19 Let me stop, what could be said to make this more clear that those living in the first generation would see these events? Is the fulfilled camp not seeing something correct here, if not,then why not ? Are there any Roman soldiers that pierced Christ still living today? As I continue, for yourself, are the Fulfilled community, trying to make a verse say what it is not saying. Notice, V3 “at hand” Not our, at hand, it was to only be relevant when, they read it. What relevance was it to them? V9 John says, “your brother and companion in tribulation” The tribulation has started and John is comforting Them, and doing so by saying that, He is in this, with Them. Who is Jesus and John thinking of when He penned Revelation, Johns contemporaries. V19 “write the things which are” this is present tense. Things going on at the time of the writing. Then, “The things which are here after,”with hermeneutics in context, you have to connect things in the discussion to the only referent in the the same discussion. This would be, v1 the referent for the entire letter, “the things shortly to come”. Not shortly to us, it has to have relevance to the audience it was given too. Also it only makes logical sense, if starting with “things that are,” then the “things which are here after”would have to connect and be relevant for the intended audience, not a audience 2,000 years removed. It would make no logical sense within the discussion. We see so far, by the language that you have read, who was on Jesus and Johns mind when writing Revelation? To tell them of the things shortly to come, at hand, companion with them in tribulation that they were presently going through as John wrote to them, comforting them, could you ever see any relevance thus far ? It was Johns contemporaries the seven churches letter. I will send the next comment to finish the proper way to interpret Revelation
Next, a Question, what hermeneutical basis can any chapter be taken from these precious first generation Christians? These that were going through such persecution, beyond our imagination? You can study their persecution by internet, or many great books and I believe we owe them such study and gratitude. As for now, there isn't space to give it justice needed. Yet by a study of their persecution you can see, God by His love and mercy was giving these first generation christians a most needed, at that time in their lives when they needed it the most, He gave them insight on the events that was about to come upon them. I want to show that the physical events in this Book was for only, the first generation. Some try and teach that Ch1-3 was for these seven Churches in Asia but chapter 4 and on goes to us, or whoever knows they keep moving it everytime a war ends, a Nation’s Leader dies, etc. I ask, who is man to say it changes, where can man show the Book is taken away from the Audience. This question is the proof by scripture, it does not leave the intended audience of Ch1. If the Book was given to the seven churches, to show them Rev1:1 “the things that were to shortly come”, and Ch 2&3 was about, getting their house in order before these awful events, and, what they needed to repent of before the events take place, then, the question is, John did not start speaking of these physical events to come until Ch4, so the question is, how can you take the referent for the entire book from who it was given to, at any place, in any chapter where the events are being spoken of? The events are for, the seven Churches Ch1. You Hermeneutically cannot take the book from who it was written too, it is their book. Their physical events to see and face. I will send Ch 22 next showing from Ch1 the beginning and the end Ch22, the entire book is clearly seen fulfilled in first generation
Let’s look at Rev22, to show from Ch1 to Ch22 all of Revelation is fulfilled. I must mentioned what I show isn't anything compared to what more can be said, in Ch1 and 22 alone, then with every chapter of Revelation being packed with fulfilled language, yet again for sake of time and space I will touch just a few points to show Revelation was a first generation of Christianity book. Rev 22:6 says “ shortly to come” V 10 it is “at hand”. V20 “Surely I come quickly” Remember Audience Revelance, the book was intended for the seven churches in Asia and Rev 1:1 is the referent for the entire book, the physical events that were come, it was to “show them things which must shortly come to pass,” so therefore what relevance did, all of the Book have for the intended audience in Ch1 ? This is the only hermeneutical, contextual way you can apply the physical events in Revelation. But let’s look at more. Notice things we read, yet we do not hear much said about these verses, as we look at them ask yourself, are these logical for the first generation of Christianity and if so then, why doesn’t anyone elaborate on them. V11 it was so short of a time, that Revelation was about to be fulfilled, that He said, “let the unjust stay unjust and the filthy stay filthy” Do we preach that today, if not why not? Futurist are saying Jesus meant for the filthy and unjust to stay that way for 2,000 years and counting? No, It had to be an extremely short time for this fulfillment, for God to say anything like this. If the book was finished in early to mid ad60’s and Rome began the siege months later…. then that verse makes sense. If not then there is a need to preach the pure Word of God and tell all Christians to let the unjust stay unjust and the filthy to stay filthy. Question before moving on, what kind of a cruel joke would God be playing on these poor Christians, to hand them a book, telling them it is for them, to read and understand it Rev1:3 write it in their apocalyptic language ( that should tell us everything we need to know concerning who the book was for) and by this Book, they were to know what was, at hand, coming quickly, shortly to come,…. but, Wait a minute,…. it really wasn't for them. To them, there’s no relevance, just empty words with no value for their situation they were in. To add, with so much persecution that history records they were in, in Ad60’s and, was about to come upon them, yet again, this was not for them. The things that were shortly to come, meant nothing to those it was addressed too. Remember Rev1:1 the referent for the entire book. Let’s stop to ask , is this Gods character? Would He hand them something that is meant to encourage them, and that He was about to come, shortly, quickly, at hand, and the writer is their companion in tribulation with them, yet, He knew, He really wasn't coming, shortly, Quickly or at Hand, it was going to be over 2,000 years later, just inspired John to write it, false hope, wrong crowd. Can I take one minute here, this book written to give a heads up to suffering Christians, but, was really to a group of believers, that live so comfortably today, I won’t get into all the statistics but just to show, less than 1% doesn’t have a Tv in their house, look at our vehicles, homes, Ac/Heat etc, social media on our phones in our pockets. Today with the comfort of 2.35 billion people in a world of 7.8 billion, that are confessing Christianity, that is 1/3 of the total population. Today we have over 66,000 people a day accepting Christ as their personal Savior, projected to be over 80,000 a day by 2045. So Revelation was not for this extremely small group that were being persecuted beyond our imagination, but, for Us today?! Even if those number are off some, do you see the point? Additionally, before the last points on Rev22, may I ask, would God inspire John, impress upon him to write all of this, address it to the seven churches in that generation, saying, these physical events were shortly, at hand, your brother in this tribulation, those that pierced Him will see Him too, yet, again, it had absolutely nothing to do with them. To the seven churches, the things YOU, Lord, are telling us is coming…..it’s not. Here is the truth, God cannot lie nor can He fail. By His Word, if He did not do “what” He said, and “when” He said it would happen, to “who” He told it would, then by His own words, Deu18:24 He is a false prophet. The Fulfilled Community can testify that God did “what” He said,…. And, when” He said it, to “who” He would see it. Coming quickly to them, is not 2,000 years, 50 generations removed and counting. Last on Rev22, Question, if God told Daniel to seal the scroll because it was to be, a long time before it would take place, which was, concerning the 70weeks,490 years , the question is, if God told John in Rev22:10 not to seal the prophecy of this Book because, the fulfillment was, at hand .… that is, it was about to happen , yet its been 2,000 years already and still going, ….wait a minute, something isn't adding up. Daniel, seal the scroll because 490 years is a long time, but John, leave the scroll open for 2,000 years, because that is, shortly, quickly, at hand? God even told Israel they would be in bondage for 70 years and said, that was a long time. Did you know, nowhere in scripture, nowhere does the futurist say, at hand, Shortly, quickly, the hour is now,it’s at at the door, means anything but immediate fulfillment to the audience it was given to except, Christ coming. Look at Jesus telling Judas John13:27 what he does, do quickly, what happened? Act2:7 the Angel struck Peter on the side and said to “stand up quickly” How does God know how to communicate in human terms quickly here but He doesn’t to His coming, or does He?! Also every place there is a long time it’s communicated by God perfectly in human terms, it’s just the Coming, they say. Yet Jesus in every place He mentions when He is coming, He specifically says it’s in His generation. Matt 23:27,28 Matt 24:33,34 Rev 1:7 to mention a few. Yet again all of these are incorrect predictions, Jesus must not have known the generation just because He said Matt 24:25 the father had the day and hour, yet right before v34 , He said He did know the generation. Revelation is packed with fulfilled scripture. I could on for hours on just Ch1&22... But It is like this in every chapter, irrefutable common sense biblical facts.
Can God tell time, or is He able to communicate it in human terms? Much has been said of many words in the Bible being meaningless, because God cannot tell time. I hear people say, words as near,at hand,quickly,He is at the door, the hour has come, has no relevance to the audience they were originally given too. I won’t get into hermeneutics and Audience Relevance, what relevance it had to who it was handed to which, in and of itself says enough to show they did mean what we think they do, and to the ones it was written too. But I thought even more so, what saith the scripture. Luke21:8 Jesus warned the disciples saying, there would be some that say, the end is near and told His disciples, to reject them, they are false prophets. And then in Matt 24:32-33 Jesus gave them signs that they could depend on to know that the end was near. So question is, does God understand what is near and what isn't? And if Jesus says someone is a false prophet when they say near, yet it isn't, then what does that make Jesus when He says something is near, and it isnt ? People like to use Peter’s statement out of context . Even though God Himself is Infinite and a 1,000 years isn't anything to Him but as a day, does that mean when He is speaking to humans in human terms, He does not know how to communicate to us in terms we can understand? Did you know, nowhere in scripture, nowhere does the futurist say, at hand, Shortly, quickly, the hour is now,it’s at the door, means anything but, immediate fulfillment to the audience it was given to, except, .… Christ coming. They change the definition. Look at Jesus telling Judas John13:27 what he does, do quickly, what happened immediately after? Does Jesus know what quickly means? Rev3:20 Jesus says He is at the door, is He ?Because James, speaking of Christ coming in judgment says, He is at the door, was He? How do we understand what being at the door means in one place, yet doesn't mean the same in the other? One we understand it means, immediately upon, the other is, who knows? What they say at least. Why did God inspire James, to even use the analogy of being at the door, a picture of nearness? Act2:7 what did “quickly” mean? Multitude of passages where every instance of, shortly, quickly, at hand, at the door meant exactly what, common sense tells you it means, …except His coming? Interesting to note, every place there is a long time being communicated by God, for some reason He communicates correctly in human terms. So all long term and all short term,… but His coming, God can communicates in Human terms. Yet Jesus in every place He mentions, when He is coming, He specifically says, it’s in His generation. Matt 23:27,28 Matt 24:33,34 Rev 1:7 to mention a few. Yet again all of these are incorrect predictions, Jesus must not have known the generation either,because He said Matt 24:36 the father only knew, the day and hour, yet right before v34 , He said He did know the generation. I believe if we lay all the scripture out where Jesus predicted His coming, we would see He is clearly saying, He is coming back in that very generation that He was speaking to His contemporaries in, but the day and hour of it, that was held only by His Father. With that said, Jesus disciples did know, what generation He was coming in, and God inspired them to write to their contemporaries in human terms, as, shortly, quickly, at hand, the hour has come, the Judge is at the door, because they knew the generation, and was only waiting for the Fathers day and hour to arrive. Next we’ll look at Israel, where they were punished for saying what God said was near, wasn’t. Do you know where that is?
I am a confessional (1689) Baptist, and I really appreciate both you and Michael Vlach. I am premillennial, and I hold to a futurist interpretation of Revelation. Thank you for making these videos. Keep them coming!
Thanks, at least we are having the conversation. See Bruce Gore and R. C. Sproul (last days according to Jesus videos), Ken Gentry. etc.
I greatly admire these men and Gary DeMar too….I listen to his podcasts every week…
Bruce Gore's Revelation series really brought so much clarity to my understanding!! Also, his church history videos, particularly the ones on dispensationalism.
Thank you so much Peter for another fantastic video. Also liked your shirt with the Shark (Greg Norman) logo. You play chess and golf? Great combination.
Indeed! Chess and golf are two amazing recreational activities!
Great work! Loved the breakdown of the 8 kings!
Appreciate the encouragement! I pray God will use it for His glory.
Thank you. This was very helpful and objective.
Your encouragement means a lot, thank you!
Fantastic as always!
Appreciate it my friend! It is very encouraging.
I may have missed it but the following verse is seldom included by Futurists:
Revelation 1:19 (YLT) 'Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things’
This verse indicates that John had NO intentions of writing about the distant future.
We can probably trust the time statements given to the original audiences.
That’s a good point. I do think that verse should be included in the case for futurism.
@@thebiblesojourner
Thank you for the response.
I of course meant to write that John had NO intentions directed towards the distant future. Only the past, present and time about to come. This confirms the imminent statements you mentioned in Rev. 1:1,3; 22:6:10, the bookends of the prophecy.
This was about the imminent judgment on mystery Babylon aka Old Covenant Israel the harlot who had become like God’s enemies Babylon, Egypt and Sodom.
God bless you brother.
I too am a preterist and it baffles me how folks read right over the straightforward time statements ❤
I don't believe you watched the whole video, brother. The Joel part explains. Joel uses language to indicate a "sooner rather than later" day of the Lord, and clearly, it wasn't... soon is a subjective term and statement for time, and I find it incorrect and in error to apply what you believe and see as "soon" to your hermeneutics. Not saying you're wrong, but just be careful with how you interpret things when it comes to subjective matters.
Excellent stuff! Thank you 👍
Thanks for watching! Appreciate the encouragement.
Just make sure you are Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit 🎉
Amen. Being saved is certainly the most important!
The chronological timeline through history follows the great statue of Gentile man's kingdom in Daniel. The split of the two legs which make up the kingdom of Rome happens in the 4th century. The ten kings/toes/horns follow in succesion. And out if which the very last kingdom of the little horn (power/kingdom comes to be brought to a close.
To my count, Paul references the Second Coming at least 80 times in his 13 epistles. Frequently, he is exhorting us to look for His coming in the clouds, to be ready for the Bema, to live in a way to receive rewards (one of which is a crown for eagerly anticipating and loving His appearing!), etc. The postmill form of preterism robs the believer of that blessed hope. Why are they so bent on denying the imminence of Christ's return?
Yes! And these imminence passages are throughout the "gentile" letters in the NT.
@@mikeyonce2323 Good point. Prophecy goes beyond just trying to persuade Jews concerning their Messiah.
Yes! Paul is very passionate about the imminence of Christ’s return.
And to answer your question, I think some preterists mean well, and others are simply contrarian.
It’s not that we are trying to “rob anyone” of anything. It’s that we are trying to help you realize that we are in the Daniel 2 and Rev 11 kingdom of Christ right now, and act like it! :) for example John says:
“John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.”
Revelation 1:4-6 ESV
This shows a couple of astounding things:
1.) John believe Jesus was already the “ruler of kings on earth” at the time of writing. Which means Rev 11’s 7th trumpet must have already sounded, and Jesus began to reign.
2.) John says that Jesus made them a Kingdom, and he and his audience were already priests to God. This is astounding because in Rev 5, the angel says that Jesus ransomed a people who will reign in the earth… which means that is a past event recorded in Rev 5 and John is writing after it.
Far from robbing people of Christ’s return we are instead pleading for you to believe him when he said he was returning in the same generation as he lived. Hardly anyone believes him.
@@gregmahler9506 _"1.) John believe Jesus was already the “ruler of kings on earth” at the time of writing. Which means Rev 11’s 7th trumpet must have already sounded, and Jesus began to reign."_
You're trying to prove too much. I believe Jesus was the ruler of kings on earth at the time of Nimrod and Noah, but that's not the same as the prophecy of Revelation 11 when He comes to earth to rule and reign on David's throne. These are two different forms of His rule over the earth.
_"2.) John says that Jesus made them a Kingdom, and he and his audience were already priests to God. This is astounding because in Rev 5, the angel says that Jesus ransomed a people who will reign in the earth… which means that is a past event recorded in Rev 5 and John is writing after it."_
Again, you are missing the fact that these are two different forms of ruling and reigning.
_"...we are instead pleading for you to believe him when he said he was returning in the same generation as he lived."_
Genea almost always means "people group." Even Sproul pointed this out, saying that we need to be careful not to make genea mean something that it rarely means in Scripture (a period of time rather than a people group). You have to ignore all the proximal times Jesus refers to "this generation" as Israel as a whole. For example, He speaks of the ones who killed the prophets. It wasn't His contemporaries who killed the prophets, was it? No, it was their ancestors who killed the prophets; yet, Jesus can say to those standing in front of Him that "their wicked and perverse generation" killed the prophets. What He meant was that their people group, Israel, killed the prophets.
Why not bring Don Preston on to talk this through? He seems to be open to talk. However those who don't agree with his position appear to dodge.
Good idea. I’d like to do something like that! If you have his email, send it to me through my website.
I don't have his email, but like you, he can be reached in various ways per his channel on youtube and his internet sight. He appears to have multiple avenues of contact. If you really want to make it happen. I have seen him pop up in chats on youtube, willing to have a discussion on his point of view.
Rev 3:11: Behold, I am coming QUICKLY! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. (Christ speaking to the church at Philadelphia, emphasis mine)
Ok, Jerusalem destroyed in AD70, but Philadelphia is 600 miles away. If Christ "came" in AD70, what effect do preterists think this had on Philadelphia? Just seems so strange. In Gentry's eyes the 7 churches are tied in with AD70 in some way, but I don't get it.
That’s an insightful point, Mike.
If A DAY is a THOUSAND YEARS to God, then saying SOON, can mean thousands of years.🎉
😂 good thinking.
Daniel was told to seal up his prophecy in Chapter 12 which was written about 1000 years before the events. Jesus told John not to seal up his prophecy in Chapter 22.... and yet we are still waiting for John's to come to pass? Why didn't Jesus tell him to seal it like the angel told Daniel? Hint: It's because it was REALLY about to take place.
The only reason we have all these different arguments and opinions is because everyone believes in the future physical return of Christ. BUT , why not see that Christ is come to and in His body, will continue to come, until we are all changed and Christ, Head and body, is made visible to creation. For creation is groaning for the manifestation of the sons of God.
....Daniel was about 600 to 550 years before Christ. In any case, Nero does not fit the criteria for the Beast in Revelation 13. Their c.v. do not match, the Great Tribulation wasn't in the first century and what follows in from the seven year Tribulation is the Millennium and that clearly has not happened, yet. @@gregmahler9506
Likewise, if a thousand years is like a day, then the Millennium of Christ Jesus could be seen to have been fulfilled in a single day! That is when the Lord came in glory, in judgement, at the resurrection of the just and the unjust, in AD70. All has been fulfilled. The old has passed, and the new has come. The Kingdom is here, if only we would see it and partake in it. The messiah's coming was missed by the majority back in Jesus' day, and so too his _parousia_ and kingdom has been missed by many since.
Christ would not tell Jacob His name in Genesis 32:29. In Judges 13:17-18 He told Manoah His name was secret. At the very end of the Book in Revelation 19:12, at Armageddon, He still has this unknown name. It is the name of God, His new name, that He will write upon us after He returns (Revelation 3:12). Which means this name cannot be found in the Bible.
If Christ returned 1,954 years ago in 70AD, then surely by now at least 1 preterist should be able to tell us what this new name is....but none can. And if He returned 1,954 years ago in 70AD surely at least 1 preterist would call Him by this new name....but they do not.
When a bride (church) takes her husband's (Christ) name it is not a forgettable moment, so why can't the 70 ADeists tell us this name?
In Zephaniah 3:8-9 we read that at His coming we will serve Him with 1 consent & 1 pure language. If He came back in 70 AD, why have we had multiple consents (denominations) & multiple languages (doctrines) ever since 70AD?
At Christ's return the 7th trumpet sounds & "there should be time no longer"....yet here we are 1,954 years later & preterists still use schedules, calendars, & alarm clocks.
1 Corinthians 11:26 says that we take communion until He comes again. So if He came back in 70AD why do preterists still take communion today?
Christ said the tribulation would be like no other time in history. More Jews were killed in WW2 than during the 70AD siege of Jerusalem. Revelation 18:21 says that harlot city will be thrown down & never found again....but Jerusalem stands today. And archaeologists have been unearthing things related to the 2nd temple. Did the Bible lie or are preterists deceived?
Jesus told Peter that we must forgive our brother until 70×7. This wasn't random numbers. God does not speak flippantly. These numbers were a direct reference to the 70 weeks prophecy. After 70 weeks we get new sinless perfect bodies at the resurrection/rapture. After that we won't need to forgive or be forgiven by our brother because we will be sinless. Are we sinless now? No. Are we still required to forgive our brother today? You better believe it. That means that 70×7 has not happened yet. It didn't happen at the cross & it did not happen at 70AD.
Brother, are you familiar with Irenaeus teaching about how and when to calculate the number ? Sorry if you mentioned it. Wife has the tv turned up and I'm having trouble trying to follow.😂
Really liking the eschatology content lately
Appreciate that. I try not to *only* to eschatological content, but it is very important. Especially because that is on the mind a lot these days.
A little, very little, pejorative at times. Yes, we all have our views , world views, personal upbringing and context. But, we all strive for internal consistency in our own minds. Thank you for calling us preterists, friends. Love br. David - Canada.
Love my Canadian brothers! Thanks for watching and your respectful interaction.
The date of Johns death, should tell when the book of Revelation was written!
That is certainly an important factor in consideration!
After the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD and the coming of Christ, the concept of a physical "House of God" or "House of worship" lost its biblical significance. In the New Testament, Jesus emphasized that true worship is no longer tied to a specific location. In John 4:21-24, He teaches that "true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth," rather than in a specific building like the Temple.
The early Church understood that the believers themselves were now the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16, Ephesians 2:19-22), making the idea of a physical building as "God's house" obsolete. Calling a building the "House of God" ignores the New Testament teaching that God’s presence dwells within His people, not in man-made structures. Therefore, attributing sacredness to church buildings reflects a misunderstanding of the spiritual nature of the Church post-Christ’s resurrection and the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple.
Do you believe Christ presently has a resurrected body? Scriptures say the church is His body so if we stay consistent with your interpretation of texts then we must believe Jesus no longer has a body and is just a floating head in heaven.
@@j7489 I don't have the answer. What physical body will you have in heaven if you get eaten by a Grizzly bear? Bear crap? Jesus had his wounds with his resurrection body.
Another excellent episode with the promise of at least 2 future episodes😂. Great stuff with the kings
Haha, oh no! All these promises! You best pray God grant me length of life and sanity 🤣
Dr Andy Wood explains soon vs quick.
He does an 80 hour study on Revelation........which I have not finished.
He's a Dispensational believer. 😊
I have a lot of respect for Andy.
One of the things that I am surprised that you did not bring up was the rebukes of the 7 churches as it would be 5-8 years after their establishments. There is no pattern of rebuking in the Old Testament that soon although there is towards the generation following. 20 some years after their establishments makes much more sense.
Good point. I tried to talk a little bit about that in the previous video, especially with some of the specific churches having circumstances that seem to require more time.
When futurists say that a pre 70 AD dating would not disprove their futurism, this is the single most disingenuous thing they could say that immediately robs them of their credibility. That is plainly and glaringly a signal of a commitment to a theological system rather than honest exegetical deduction. It does not have even the semblance of reasonableness to say that if it could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Revelation was seen and written in say 63 or 64 AD, that it is still likely that it was referencing events thousands of years in the future pertaining to a future temple even when the one right in front of them was still standing. That is desperate and shows that it really isn’t about trying to arrive at truth but about rescuing a theological system at all costs. If you stood to gain large sums of cash by placing a bet on what the truth of the matter was in such a scenario, and you didn’t have to tell any of your futurist friends how you got the money, we all know that you would be an absolute fool to bet futurist.
Please stop with this particular line, it is bad faith. I’m willing to say as a (still) convinced preterist that my reading depends on the date, futurists should too.
I appreciate your comment my friend and will take it in good spirit. But are you saying you do not see the difference between the two ideas? It is completely different for a preterist because his position literally cannot exist if Revelation was written after 70 AD. But alternatively, it literally does not matter when the book was written for the futurist, because it was talking about the far future. The simple point (which I’m surprised you are missing) is that the preterist has his back against the wall with no flexibility. The futurist position does not depend on dating the book. Similarly, the idealist position does not depend on the dating of the book (because it is the symbol that matters not the timing). It truly is *only* the preterist position where the date truly matters. This is acknowledged by preterist and non preterist alike, so I’m unsure why this is such a sticking point for you. But I hope my comment will help clarify that. Blessings to you and may God help you grow into the likeness of Christ!
@thebiblesojourner
I understand your point, and to be clear Peter, I have always appreciated your goodwill in interacting with us Preterist/Postmill/Theonomy guys. Please don’t take my tone wrongly, what I am saying is that the observation you are making is only TECHNICALLY true, but if our goal is trying to discern the truth as best we can, then this observation really is moot because I think it is as plain as the noon day sun that IF we could definitively demonstrate an early date to such a certainty that no one could rationally contend it, we all know that it would have undeniable implications.
To try to put it another way, my annoyance with this particular talking point is it strikes me as something like this:
Let’s say we we dug up a 1st century chest that had a copy of Revelation that scholars dated to 73 AD, and this particular manuscript contained the phrase in 1:9, “ I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos, sent thither by Nero because of the word of God and the witness of Jesus…” Now let’s say that was dug up in ancient Smyrna. Let us also press the story by saying that we found an even earlier copy in Jerusalem that scholars dated to 63 and it had the same reading with an additional comment in the side column stating, “the elders of the seven churches urge you all to flee the city in haste, the Lord’s parousia as spoken by our brother Matthew is at hand.” - I know, I know, just work with me. Finally, let’s say that we found a previously unknown letter of Iranaeus and in it he stated, “Some have misconstrued my meaning as to thinking I intended to convey John beheld his vision under Domitian, of course that is not my contention…”
In this outlandish scenario I have made, for someone to say, “Well… TECHNICALLY futurism COULD still be true” would simply be incredible. Of course TECHNICALLY a proposition as it is stated can be true, but that is not how we think through things. There is more going on in making interpretive decisions. Yes, if we plug in the formula’s based on technicalities then Preterism inherently fails if the late date is established and futurism can stand if the early date is established. What I am saying is that is such a bad faith framing of the situation that I am shocked it’s even rolled out as a bolstering point. It doesn’t convey strength to me, it conveys the opposite honestly. Stick with legitimate arguments like Iranaeus, like deviant spellings of Nero, like the presence of Timothy in Ephesus etc. These are fair and have actual weight of consideration. But this business of “the late date is fine with an early date” just makes me say, “Okay, this is not a serious discussion anymore.”
Thanks for your charity brother.
They are not only wrong but they are the most wrong.
I would certainly agree. Inconsistency is a demonstration of a weak position.
For people who comment like this I like to point them to my collection of evidence against them:
-Jesus’s Testimony-
“For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” - Matthew 16:27-28
“Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” - John 21:22
-Peter’s Testimony-
“The end of all things is at hand…” - 1 Peter 4:7
“And after you have suffered A LITTLE WHILE, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will HIMSELF restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.” - 1 Peter 5:10
-John’s Testimony-
“...the world is passing away along with its desires… it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.” - 1 John 2:17-18
-James’s Testimony-
“Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord… Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door.” - James 5:7-9
-Paul’s Testimony-
“…The Lord is at hand;” - Philippians 4:5b
“This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away.” - 1 Corinthians 7:29-31
“Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.” - 1 Corinthians 10:11
“For he says, “In a favorable time I listened to you, and in a day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.” - 2 Corinthians 6:2
“The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet…” - Romans 16:20a
-Revelation’s Testimony-
“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that MUST SOON TAKE PLACE. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John… Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for THE TIME IS NEAR.” - Revelation 1:1-3
“And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what MUST SOON TAKE PLACE. And behold, I am COMING SOON. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book… And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for THE TIME IS NEAR… Behold, I am COMING SOON, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.” - Revelation 22:6-12
“He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am COMING SOON.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!” - Revelation 22:20
Peter, don't toss out resources that you recommend we research and then NOT provide the links to where we can find them! Who is Jeremy Sexton? Mishka? Give us a place to look where we can find their work! Thanks.
I am justly chastened! I have added links to website/social media profile to be able to track some of their stuff in the video description. Thanks, Fred!
@@thebiblesojourner You're just the best!
@ArmonBaptistiseurakunta 1:23:36
The 7 kings of Revelation are not the only issue neither. The 10 kings who give their authority to the beast is probably a bigger issue. They at least try making the the 7 kings work though they epicly fail but there is no way they can ever tell us of a 10-king confederation that gave their authority to the beast anywhere between 66-70 AD. Neither can they tell us of the 3 kings uprooted by one.
Excellent point. I should have brought that into the video, thank you for mentioning it.
Under Julius Caesar, Rome was still a republic, just as Rome was under Sulla who also held the office of Dictator. Dictator was an official position used during a time of upheaval in the period of the Republic.
Augustus is most definitely the first Emporer fir which there were five of the Julian-Claudian dynasty. Augustus (aka Octavian), Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero.
Thete there is the 'year of four emporers' of which the fourth is Vespasian who was the first of three emporers of the Flavian dynasty. Vespasian, Titus and Domitian.
Interestingly, Beale dates The Revelation in the 90s!
A lot of scholars who hold to a symbolic view of revelation dated in the 90s or sometimes later because their system is not at stake, and the evidence clearly leads that way. Beale is a top notch scholar (though I disagree with him on many things).
And yet no one seems to know of or speak of a very clear fulfillment of prophecy in our recent history. We (U.S.A.) are the ones who brought down fire from heaven in Aug. of 1945 and we are the ones that gave life to the image of the beast in May of 1948. Rev 13:13-15 (KJV).
The prophecy, 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, Rev 13:13 (KJV)
The fulfillment, The United States detonated two atomic bombs over the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on 6 and 9 August 1945, respectively. “In the sight of men”, means this was done on the world stage during WWII (the second “woe”).
The prophecy, 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, …Rev 13:15 (KJV)
The fulfillment, On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day. This was done using the power and prestige the U.S. earned by the act of bringing fire down from the heaven (sky).
It is said that God will bless those who bless Israel, and this is true, but the following verses show us that the “Israel in the middle east is false” and is not to be blessed.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is PARTAKER of his EVIL DEEDS. 2 John 1:9-11 (KJV)
AND
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9 (KJV) You can’t have it both ways, 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. James 1:8 (KJV) 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. Matt 21:43-44 (KJV)
And
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: Isaiah 65:15 (KJV).
The second beast of lies, saying “one nation under God” and “in God we trust”, indeed the “father of lies”, did bring fire from the heaven, (Greek Strong's Number: 3772...(through the idea of elevation); the SKY...), and did set up a false Israel in the middle east, (proven false by this verse among others 9 ...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, HE IS NONE OF HIS. Romans 8:9 (KJV)).
This Israel has been and is the catalyst of “wars and rumors of wars” making it the image of the first beast of warmongering , Germany, who’s head was wounded in WWI(1st harvest, woe) and healed enough to bring about WWII(2nd harvest, woe).
You couldn’t get a better fulfillment of prophecy. For these events to happen again would negate the prophecies altogether. And it is asinine to think these events are happenstance and ignored by the prophecies of God. No sir, either God’s timing is off or yours is.
And this leaves only one “woe”(WWIII) left, the war that God hates (abomination), a war that makes the world desolate. 7th trump and bowl are simultaneous and plunge the world into 3½ yrs of great tribulation.
If the truth were being told then the prophecy of Matt. 24:14 would have occurred years ago, shortly after the advent of the world-wide-web. This fact proves that the prominent teachers are false teachers.
I suggest you forget all that you have been taught and come to the bible (KJV) with sincere want for truth, and not to consume it upon your lusts, but that you may do true worship and obedience to God, with a repentant heart, and with reason and logic the Spirit of God will teach.11 … in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11 (KJV)
All glory to God. Amen
Consistent Preterism
I really dont know what to say about the point of, if Revelation was written in ad90 that Preterism falls on its face.
What I will say is, this can be said of any teaching. Let me explain, if you cannot contextually and hermeneutically, show a “gap” in Daniel 9 the 70 weeks, which you cannot show, then futurism falls flat on its face.
So much I want to say on
Revelation with every chapter showing unquestionable evidence that Revelation to written before ad70, yet because of the sheer volume and irrefutable “internal evidence” for the early date, and so much space here, I thought I would set the proper foundation, for understanding the entire book of Revelation.
Hermeneutically you cannot take the letter as here in Revelation, from the intended Audience it was written to nor, “their” time statements, as we will see.
Preterist will always start with Hermeneutics, the rules of interpretating scripture. The first rule is
“Audience Relevance,” what revelance was it, to who it was written and handed too. Anything not logical so far?
CH1, please take time to read and see how clear the message is, that it was written to the seven Churches in Asia, in fact names each one specifically.
Revelation was written to them, for them, Rev1:1 is the referent passage for the entire book. In fact, this is the reason it was written, that is, to “tell them of things shortly to come.”
Hermeneutics has a famous axiom: “If the plain sense makes good sense, seek no other sense.”
How can anyone read chapter 1 and not see it was to them, for them, things they would shortly see?
Notice all of the first generation fulfilled language as we go.
Seven churches in Asia, telling “them” what things are shortly to come. This is, their time statements not ours, it is, not shortly to us, but shortly to them, Audience Relevance.
If I showed you a letter I found from my great, great grandfather to my great, great grandmother where, In the late 1,800’s he was coming home, and will see her “shortly”, and I told you I was so excited, that I was about to meet him because, the letter clearly said, he’ll be here shortly, look for yourself. What would you think of me? I’ve lost my mind, right ? See this breaks the rules of interpretation, audience relevance, it was relevant for my great, great, grandmother, only and in her time, in the late 1,800’s. This is not for anyone else nor for another time frame. Does fulfilled still seem logical?
Then Rev1:7
when He comes on the clouds,
“ those who pierced Him will see Him.”
Contextually seamlessly this goes
Perfectly with, what Jesus said Matt 16:27, 28
“Some standing here will not die until they see His coming in power”, in fact contextually compare Scripture References: Revelation 1:7; Daniel 7:13; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 24:30; Matthew 4:17; Matthew 23:37-38; Acts 3:19-20; Acts 21:20; Revelation 22:12; Revelation 1:19
Let me stop, what could be said to make this more clear that those living in the first generation would see these events? Is the fulfilled camp not seeing something correct here, if not,then why not ? Are there any Roman soldiers that pierced Christ still living today? As I continue, for yourself, are the Fulfilled community, trying to make a verse say what it is not saying.
Notice,
V3 “at hand”
Not our, at hand, it was to only be relevant when, they read it. What relevance was it to them?
V9 John says, “your brother and companion in tribulation”
The tribulation has started and John is comforting Them, and doing so by saying that, He is in this, with Them. Who is Jesus and John thinking of when He penned Revelation, Johns contemporaries.
V19 “write the things which are” this is present tense.
Things going on at the time of the writing.
Then,
“The things which are here after,”with hermeneutics in context, you have to connect things in the discussion to the only referent in the the same discussion. This would be, v1 the referent for the entire letter, “the things shortly to come”. Not shortly to us, it has to have relevance to the audience it was given too.
Also it only makes logical sense, if starting with “things that are,” then the “things which are here after”would have to connect and be relevant for the intended audience, not a audience 2,000 years removed. It would make no logical sense within the discussion.
We see so far, by the language that you have read, who was on Jesus and Johns mind when writing Revelation? To tell them of the things shortly to come, at hand, companion with them in tribulation
that they were presently going through as John wrote to them, comforting them, could you ever see any relevance thus far ?
It was Johns contemporaries the seven churches letter.
I will send the next comment to finish the proper way to interpret Revelation
Next, a Question, what hermeneutical basis can any chapter be taken from these precious first generation Christians? These that were going through such persecution, beyond our imagination? You can study their persecution by internet, or many great books and I believe we owe them such study and gratitude. As for now, there isn't space to give it justice needed.
Yet by a study of their persecution you can see, God by His love and mercy was giving these first generation christians a most needed, at that time in their lives when they needed it the most, He gave them insight on the events that was about to come upon them.
I want to show that the physical events in this Book was for only, the first generation.
Some try and teach that Ch1-3 was for these seven Churches in Asia but chapter 4 and on goes to us, or whoever knows they keep moving it everytime a war ends, a Nation’s Leader dies, etc. I ask, who is man to say it changes, where can man show the Book is taken away from the Audience.
This question is the proof by scripture, it does not leave the intended audience of Ch1.
If the Book was given to the seven churches, to show them Rev1:1 “the things that were to shortly come”, and Ch 2&3 was about, getting their house in order before these awful events, and, what they needed to repent of before the events take place, then,
the question is, John did not start speaking of these physical events to come until Ch4, so the question is, how can you take the referent for the entire book from who it was given to, at any place, in any chapter where the events are being spoken of? The events are for, the seven Churches Ch1. You Hermeneutically cannot take the book from who it was written too, it is their book. Their physical events to see and face.
I will send
Ch 22 next showing from Ch1 the beginning and the end Ch22, the entire book is clearly seen fulfilled in first generation
Let’s look at Rev22, to show from Ch1 to Ch22 all of Revelation is fulfilled.
I must mentioned what I show isn't anything compared to what more can be said, in Ch1 and 22 alone, then with every chapter of Revelation being packed with fulfilled language, yet again for sake of time and space I will touch just a few points to show Revelation was a first generation of Christianity book.
Rev 22:6 says “ shortly to come”
V 10 it is “at hand”.
V20
“Surely I come quickly”
Remember Audience Revelance, the book was intended for the seven churches in Asia and Rev 1:1 is the referent for the entire book, the physical events that were come, it was to “show them things which must shortly come to pass,” so therefore what relevance did, all of the Book have for the intended audience in Ch1 ? This is the only hermeneutical, contextual way you can apply the physical events in Revelation. But let’s look at more.
Notice things we read, yet we do not hear much said about these verses, as we look at them ask yourself, are these logical for the first generation of Christianity and if so then, why doesn’t anyone elaborate on them.
V11 it was so short of a time, that Revelation was about to be fulfilled, that He said, “let the unjust stay unjust and the filthy stay filthy” Do we preach that today, if not why not? Futurist are saying Jesus meant for the filthy and unjust to stay that way for 2,000 years and counting?
No, It had to be an extremely short time for this fulfillment, for God to say anything like this. If the book was finished in early to mid ad60’s and Rome began the siege months later…. then that verse makes sense. If not then there is a need to preach the pure Word of God and tell all Christians to let the unjust stay unjust and the filthy to stay filthy.
Question before moving on, what kind of a cruel joke would God be playing on these poor Christians, to hand them a book, telling them it is for them, to read and understand it Rev1:3 write it in their apocalyptic language ( that should tell us everything we need to know concerning who the book was for) and by this Book, they were to know what was, at hand, coming quickly, shortly to come,…. but, Wait a minute,…. it really wasn't for them.
To them, there’s no relevance, just empty words with no value for their situation they were in. To add, with so much persecution that history records they were in, in Ad60’s and, was about to come upon them, yet again, this was not for them. The things that were shortly to come, meant nothing to those it was addressed too.
Remember Rev1:1 the referent for the entire book.
Let’s stop to ask , is this Gods character? Would He hand them something that is meant to encourage them, and that He was about to come, shortly, quickly, at hand, and the writer is their companion in tribulation with them, yet, He knew, He really wasn't coming, shortly, Quickly or at Hand, it was going to be over 2,000 years later, just inspired John to write it, false hope, wrong crowd.
Can I take one minute here, this book written to give a heads up to suffering Christians, but, was really to a group of believers, that live so comfortably today, I won’t get into all the statistics but just to show, less than 1% doesn’t have a Tv in their house, look at our vehicles, homes, Ac/Heat etc, social media on our phones in our pockets. Today with the comfort of 2.35 billion people in a world of 7.8 billion, that are confessing Christianity, that is 1/3 of the total population. Today we have over 66,000 people a day accepting Christ as their personal Savior, projected to be over 80,000 a day by 2045. So Revelation was not for this extremely small group that were being persecuted beyond our imagination, but, for Us today?! Even if those number are off some, do you see the point?
Additionally, before the last points on Rev22, may I ask, would God inspire John, impress upon him to write all of this, address it to the seven churches in that generation, saying, these physical events were shortly, at hand, your brother in this tribulation, those that pierced Him will see Him too, yet, again, it had absolutely nothing to do with them.
To the seven churches, the things YOU, Lord, are telling us is coming…..it’s not.
Here is the truth, God cannot lie nor can He fail. By His Word, if He did not do “what” He said, and “when” He said it would happen, to “who” He told it would, then by His own words,
Deu18:24 He is a false prophet.
The Fulfilled Community can testify that God did “what” He said,…. And, when” He said it, to “who” He would see it. Coming quickly to them, is not 2,000 years, 50 generations
removed and counting.
Last on Rev22,
Question, if God told Daniel to seal the scroll because it was to be, a long time before it would take place, which was, concerning the 70weeks,490 years ,
the question is, if God told John in Rev22:10 not to seal the prophecy of this Book because, the fulfillment was, at hand .… that is, it was about to happen , yet its been 2,000 years already and still going, ….wait a minute, something isn't adding up.
Daniel, seal the scroll because 490 years is a long time, but John, leave the scroll open for 2,000 years, because that is, shortly, quickly, at hand?
God even told Israel they would be in bondage for 70 years and said, that was a long time. Did you know, nowhere in scripture, nowhere does the futurist say, at hand, Shortly, quickly, the hour is now,it’s at at the door, means anything but immediate fulfillment to the audience it was given to except, Christ coming. Look at Jesus telling Judas John13:27 what he does, do quickly, what happened?
Act2:7 the Angel struck Peter on the side and said to “stand up quickly”
How does God know how to communicate in human terms quickly here but He doesn’t to His coming, or does He?! Also every place there is a long time it’s communicated by God perfectly in human terms, it’s just the Coming, they say. Yet Jesus in every place He mentions when He is coming, He specifically says it’s in His generation. Matt 23:27,28
Matt 24:33,34
Rev 1:7 to mention a few. Yet again all of these are incorrect predictions, Jesus must not have known the generation just because He said Matt 24:25 the father had the day and hour, yet right before v34 , He said He did know the generation.
Revelation is packed with fulfilled scripture. I could on for hours on just Ch1&22... But It is like this in every chapter, irrefutable common sense biblical facts.
@@DWW1972refutation abounds.
As long as it’s a hermeneutically refutation otherwise I won’t chase a wild Wild West interpretation of scripture.
@@DWW1972
Amen my friend I agree with all you’ve said…. God bless you ❤
Can God tell time, or is He able to communicate it in human terms?
Much has been said of many words in the Bible being meaningless, because God cannot tell time.
I hear people say, words as near,at hand,quickly,He is at the door, the hour has come, has no relevance to the audience they were originally given too.
I won’t get into hermeneutics and Audience Relevance, what relevance it had to who it was handed to which, in and of itself says enough to show they did mean what we think they do, and to the ones it was written too. But I thought even more so, what saith the scripture.
Luke21:8 Jesus warned the disciples saying, there would be some that say, the end is near and told His disciples, to reject them, they are false prophets. And then in Matt 24:32-33 Jesus gave them signs that they could depend on to know that the end was near. So question is, does God understand what is near and what isn't?
And if Jesus says someone is a false prophet when they say near, yet it isn't, then what does that make Jesus when He says something is near, and it isnt ?
People like to use Peter’s statement out of context .
Even though God Himself is Infinite and a 1,000 years isn't anything to Him but as a day, does that mean when He is speaking to humans in human terms, He does not know how to communicate to us in terms we can understand?
Did you know, nowhere in scripture, nowhere does the futurist say, at hand, Shortly, quickly, the hour is now,it’s at the door, means anything but, immediate fulfillment to the audience it was given to, except, .… Christ coming. They change the definition.
Look at Jesus telling Judas John13:27 what he does, do quickly, what happened immediately after? Does Jesus know what quickly means?
Rev3:20 Jesus says He is at the door, is He ?Because James, speaking of Christ coming in judgment says, He is at the door, was He? How do we understand what being at the door means in one place, yet doesn't mean the same in the other? One we understand it means, immediately upon, the other is, who knows? What they say at least.
Why did God inspire James, to even use the analogy of being at the door, a picture of nearness?
Act2:7 what did “quickly” mean? Multitude of passages where every instance of, shortly, quickly, at hand, at the door meant exactly what, common sense tells you it means, …except His coming?
Interesting to note, every place there is a long time being communicated by God, for some reason He communicates correctly in human terms.
So all long term and all short term,… but His coming, God can communicates in Human terms.
Yet Jesus in every place He mentions, when He is coming, He specifically says, it’s in His generation. Matt 23:27,28
Matt 24:33,34
Rev 1:7 to mention a few. Yet again all of these are incorrect predictions, Jesus must not have known the generation either,because He said Matt 24:36 the father only knew, the day and hour, yet right before v34 , He said He did know the generation.
I believe if we lay all the scripture out where Jesus predicted His coming, we would see He is clearly saying, He is coming back in that very generation that He was speaking to His contemporaries in, but the day and hour of it, that was held only by His Father. With that said, Jesus disciples did know, what generation He was coming in, and God inspired them to write to their contemporaries in human terms, as, shortly, quickly, at hand, the hour has come, the Judge is at the door, because they knew the generation, and was only waiting for the Fathers day and hour to arrive.
Next we’ll look at Israel, where they were punished for saying what God said was near, wasn’t. Do you know where that is?