34:52 this is why I thought the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie was hot garbage. We’ve gotten so obsessed as a culture with propping up people for being victims, that it’s created a perverse incentive (aka the victimhood Olympics) I wish would really go away. If you could at least make a case from a clinical psychology standpoint that people proclaiming their victimhood from the mountain tops led to better mental health outcomes, then maybe we could consider that trade off; but reality appears to be the opposite of that.
It was exactly through a long line of people making their complaints known from the highest podium they could reach that changed conditions for many. Our progress on mental health care wouldn’t be what it is, civil rights movements, laws, even basic stuff like what you do and don’t buy. The Joker movie was good in that it showed exactly what happens when you take that in the wrong direction. When you start to equate victimhood with status, or to bolster what you feel you’re entitled to. The Joker wasn’t the good guy in that movie, not sure how you got to that conclusion.
Losing an arm because of a mistake. Having chronic pain for not taking care of your health. Overcoming something that still affects you is way harder than overcoming something that doesn't prevent you from enjoying your everyday experience.
Thank you for this podcast. I loved how you framed several things that I was struggling to formulate. Especially the "empathy can be bad" and the "where's the scarcity in the age of AI?" bits.
I think a critical distinction or discussion to be made (or had) is when does empathy become enabling. Those are two different distinct categories… and though I have not read the Bloom book, I would caution using only one book to posit a judgment regarding an emotion so complex as empathy. It is very easy to take in media of any kind that persuades a position.. in fact, most media over the past century has an objective to persuade a position; yet to think critically about a topic is to expose oneself to a variety of perspectives- especially with topics regarding psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc. as historically, positions change, more information becomes available, etc etc. Furthermore, as publishing has become easier (no judgment) there is such a wide variety of opinions that may or may not use sources and citations to make certain claims or fact check the author. Genres have blended between non-fiction and fiction .. it’s an ocean out there .. and historically.. some authors and orators are so persuasive that movements (both benign and banal) can be spurred quite easily as time in a persons life may not permit extensive research into the topic. Legacy media is but one example, e.g. a network paying nearly a billion dollars for information found to be incorrect and/or harmful to an individual. Think critically as best you can…
Empathy is that you think you understand how things are for someone but you may or may not be correct. For it to truly be helpful a person must take the next step and get to know how they really are.
HI, Mark! All that discussion about empathy and "effective altruism" made me think of this question: I have talked to people who have said they are against government social programs, and a lot of people share this sentiment, because of the idea that social programs encourage people not to work, and they don't want to help someone who doesn't need it. Why is this idea so widespread, despite the fact that rates of social program fraud are low and studies show that generally such programs not only don't discourage working but even help people to get work? Why do so many people feel like they would rather not help anyone at all than help a lot of people even if some of those people don't "need" it?
47:00 You guys should check out the indie web and neocities, those feel like the progenitor of what the "human" internet will be. They are places which shun the slimy involvement of corporations, and promote freedom and creativity.
I feel like the people with no regrets are those who are happy now with where they are in life. I have a big time regret of not dating someone who pursued me in my 20s, bc I later ended up with someone who was a great guy until the day we got pregnant. And then he thought I was locked in and became very abusive. I am free of that now, but it stole a LOT of years of my life, and caused me SO much stress (I had cancer this year... connected? IDK). And my kids grew up with an abusive dad and later without a dad. I am "ok" now, but I'd be a lot better if I had chosen a different partner. And I will regret that forever. Just one example. 😢 Mark is happy with his partner and has a successful career, so I feel like it's easy in that situation to say that you have no regrets and anything bad in the past led to where you are now. 🤷♂️
I am a big fan of Drew! Such an asset to Mark Manson's podcasts!
Good chemistry with them for sure
I turned 40 this year too! Happy birthday Drew 🎉
Hyy happy birthday ❤
Manson's theory on AI is extremely solid. Think community and in-person connection will definitely come back around in importance.
34:52 this is why I thought the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie was hot garbage. We’ve gotten so obsessed as a culture with propping up people for being victims, that it’s created a perverse incentive (aka the victimhood Olympics) I wish would really go away. If you could at least make a case from a clinical psychology standpoint that people proclaiming their victimhood from the mountain tops led to better mental health outcomes, then maybe we could consider that trade off; but reality appears to be the opposite of that.
It was exactly through a long line of people making their complaints known from the highest podium they could reach that changed conditions for many.
Our progress on mental health care wouldn’t be what it is, civil rights movements, laws, even basic stuff like what you do and don’t buy.
The Joker movie was good in that it showed exactly what happens when you take that in the wrong direction. When you start to equate victimhood with status, or to bolster what you feel you’re entitled to. The Joker wasn’t the good guy in that movie, not sure how you got to that conclusion.
Losing an arm because of a mistake. Having chronic pain for not taking care of your health. Overcoming something that still affects you is way harder than overcoming something that doesn't prevent you from enjoying your everyday experience.
Thank you for this podcast. I loved how you framed several things that I was struggling to formulate. Especially the "empathy can be bad" and the "where's the scarcity in the age of AI?" bits.
I think a critical distinction or discussion to be made (or had) is when does empathy become enabling. Those are two different distinct categories… and though I have not read the Bloom book, I would caution using only one book to posit a judgment regarding an emotion so complex as empathy. It is very easy to take in media of any kind that persuades a position.. in fact, most media over the past century has an objective to persuade a position; yet to think critically about a topic is to expose oneself to a variety of perspectives- especially with topics regarding psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc. as historically, positions change, more information becomes available, etc etc. Furthermore, as publishing has become easier (no judgment) there is such a wide variety of opinions that may or may not use sources and citations to make certain claims or fact check the author. Genres have blended between non-fiction and fiction .. it’s an ocean out there .. and historically.. some authors and orators are so persuasive that movements (both benign and banal) can be spurred quite easily as time in a persons life may not permit extensive research into the topic. Legacy media is but one example, e.g. a network paying nearly a billion dollars for information found to be incorrect and/or harmful to an individual. Think critically as best you can…
Happy Happy Birthday, Drew!!!! ❤
Great episode, my biggest regrets are not telling people how I feel. Also Happy Birthday Drew!
Happy birthday Drew!
I really needed that last segment about AI
I was having a day of getting a little crazy about it.
I need to learnd more
Happy late birthday, Drew! Looking pretty healthy for your age milestone! :)
Empathy is that you think you understand how things are for someone but you may or may not be correct. For it to truly be helpful a person must take the next step and get to know how they really are.
HI, Mark! All that discussion about empathy and "effective altruism" made me think of this question: I have talked to people who have said they are against government social programs, and a lot of people share this sentiment, because of the idea that social programs encourage people not to work, and they don't want to help someone who doesn't need it. Why is this idea so widespread, despite the fact that rates of social program fraud are low and studies show that generally such programs not only don't discourage working but even help people to get work? Why do so many people feel like they would rather not help anyone at all than help a lot of people even if some of those people don't "need" it?
47:00 You guys should check out the indie web and neocities, those feel like the progenitor of what the "human" internet will be. They are places which shun the slimy involvement of corporations, and promote freedom and creativity.
Happy birthday
I feel like the people with no regrets are those who are happy now with where they are in life. I have a big time regret of not dating someone who pursued me in my 20s, bc I later ended up with someone who was a great guy until the day we got pregnant. And then he thought I was locked in and became very abusive. I am free of that now, but it stole a LOT of years of my life, and caused me SO much stress (I had cancer this year... connected? IDK). And my kids grew up with an abusive dad and later without a dad. I am "ok" now, but I'd be a lot better if I had chosen a different partner. And I will regret that forever. Just one example. 😢
Mark is happy with his partner and has a successful career, so I feel like it's easy in that situation to say that you have no regrets and anything bad in the past led to where you are now. 🤷♂️
“Regret for wasted time is more wasted time” -Mason Cooley
We live in a deterministic universe, where cause > effect.. things happened in literally the only possible way they EVER could :D
society would change overnight if more people read the book Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki
REPELLENT
Society would change if people stopped making spam bots
"my brain is very good at justifying whatever I want".... Adhd personificação amigo
everything you believe might crumble if you read the book Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki
The chess board is set up wrong.
the truth feels dangerous, and that’s why the book Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki is ignored
they don’t want you to read the book Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki because it sets you free
the book Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki is what everyone avoids because it’s too real
Bot
@DrewBirnie-MM happy bday !
Happy Birthday Drew 🎂