CORRECTION: Alarielle's recursion is on a 4+, not a 3+! That means you're likely to successfully bring back 2 units per game on average. Also, the faction trait healing only works when the unit is wholly within 6". Alarielle's base is so big that she has to be partially on the Awakened Wyldwood's roots in order to be wholly within 6". So it's possible for her to benefit from the Lords of the Clan battle formation, but it's not easy.
wow a sylvaneth youtuber. Will definitely watch all of your vids. Although I'm strongly considering starting another army. Sylvaneth index is just a total disaster. Good thing I collected around 5k points of 'em end of 3rd😢
Thanks for watching! Hey, at least you have all those great-looking models to enjoy. Even if you lose, your army will look good doing it! Hopefully the Battletome fixes a lot of our issues. They may have broken the faction just so they can sell us the solution in the future, lol.
Came back for a second comment just to say that having now watched all your Sylvaneth videos I really like your content, have subscribed and will be recommending your videos! Keep up the good work!
Im getting a lot of 2.5k points of trees this sunday! Really excited, i have like 300 bucks of store credit at my LGS so im debating between krondys son of dracotion or an alarielle
GW really wants us to pay for that below average win rate in 3rd edition Also love that strike and fade is now strike, wait, get hit, then fade but only if you were bad at striking and are still in combat oh and also you have to be wholly within 6" of a tree down from 9"... Utterly gutted ability. Summoning trees is a huge pain, but it's not like they gave Skaven the ability to summon their faction terrain every single turn for free though, right? right?.. Does a single person at GW play Sylvaneth?
Yeah, Sylvaneth has really been crippled in 4th edition. But they're my favorite models, so they remain my favorite faction. I'm really interested to see what strategies people have success with, but I think we'll be in the lower tier factions for the whole edition. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
"Summoning trees is a huge pain, but it's not like they gave Skaven the ability to summon their faction terrain every single turn for free though, right? right?.." This in particular makes it more painful to see how gutted our trees/mobility got this edition.
@@falcogress1136 The entire reason I wanted to play Sylvaneth is because I wanted to summon cool trees and do sneaky cool strike and fade mechanics. That part of the army is absolutely gutted, and now we rely on running where we want and shooting. Heck half the time my trees benefit my opponent more, having them use them as free mobility via charge and then piling in to my units they normally couldn't reach with a charge. The only good list is Belthanos + Alarielle + 6 Bow Kurnoths + Durthu + whatever for tactics. We went from a tactical army to just using giant monster beatsticks that heal if they're not 1 shot. If I wanted to just run to enemies, hit them hard, and shoot, I'd have picked a different army.
Thanks, glad you like it! I was a big fan of this one too. This thumbnail was generated by AI. I stopped using AI because it's pretty divisive in terms of ethics and quality.
U forget that we can give run and charge via subfaction to bugs. And ur forget that we have fight first via abilities. One combo with scythes very well. Keep going looks good
Thanks for your feedback! IMO, if you're going to use the Run and Charge subfaction, you are much better off bringing Belthanos so up to 3 units can use Run and Charge regardless of their unit type. I mentioned that in another video, but you're right that I could have said that again here. As far as Fight First abilities, it's not that we don't have it at all, it's that it's just the one unit or the combo with the Branchwych. So we're generally only going to have one unit that has it compared to a faction like Idoneth Deepkin that gives it to their whole army on turn 3. Hope that clarifies my take! Thanks for watching!
Also fight last ability on the TLA, but none of them dependable, more like a threat to your opponent. Though that is perhaps the direction GW are going in for the design of these abilities.
@@gammafighter Definitely agree with the run & charge subfaction, and like you say, strike first/last are not major features of the army, even if we have some sprinkling of it across the list. This video is a really nice overview for people who are familiar with AoS and are perhaps e.g. looking to start a 2nd army. Great job!
I think Seed of Rebirth and the Run&Charge battle formation are the one-unit alternative to Alarielle’s recursion and Belthanos (any) 3 units run and charge. Clearly they are monsters that bring a lot of other value (combat+abilities), but the fact their coolest abilities can be somehow partially replaced makes me think if we can save points and avoid bringing them.
Great video mate! I have actually found AWW is not that effective in blocking movement and can be used by your opponent to reach our units, if they fall short with a charge - as faction terrain can now be charged.
I was afraid of that. Unfortunately, it creates some unintuitive movement options for our opponents. It's something unique about Sylvaneth for sure, but I think you're right that it's more of an liability than a benefit. Thanks for sharing!
@gammafighter I saw a great sylvaneth review on AoS coach with Michael Taune (may have spelt that wrong), he said it took about 15 games to learn how to place the trees. And that he found it a good idea to only try to place them the turn you need them, generally behind our troops but within range. The good thing with having terrain set-up guides is that we can kind of plan out where and when we might want to place trees - could even plan this for facing different army builds we may face...
@@gabethefish7585 Yes, I saw that! I'm planning a video to go over my takeaways from that interview and from Vince Venturella's review of 4th edition so far.
I'm confused about walk the hidden paths. Is it not possible to move after using walk the hidden paths and if so where do we see that in the rules? As far as I can tell you could use it at the start of your movement phase and then move and then charge after. I'm not an expert though.
Unfortunately, that would be way too strong. Walk the Hidden Paths is tagged with the Core keyword and you can only used one Core ability per phase. Moving is also a Core ability, so you can't do both. In 3rd edition, the rules were different, so we could move and then Walk the Hidden Paths, but we still couldn't move after teleporting. In 3rd the Spiteswarm Hive also gave +3 to charge rolls, so we only had to make a 6" charge after teleporting. This made teleport+charge much more reliable. Now the best we can get after teleporting is an 8" charge, which is just not reliable enough.
@@gammafighter that makes sense thanks! Could we teleport and then run? With belthanos (and special rules from my ptg campaign) certain units can run and charge, which seems like it would be very likely to make it (especially if we take the full run with a command point).
I have one question about the awakened Wyldwoods , where does it state in the core book about the 18’ of the caster ? I Can’t find anywhere Thanks in advance
It's in the Sylvaneth book, not the core rules. Under the Spell Lore on page 6: "If there are fewer than 3 friendly Awakened Wyldwoods on the battlefield, you can set up an Awakened Wyldwood wholly within 18" of the caster and more than 3" from all enemy units, objectives and other terrain features."
I still don’t see much value in walk the hidden paths outside of getting shooting units in range. It is unlikely to work well for most tactics because trees are likely not going to be on the flanks and edges of the board, but towards the middle so that you can fight near them. Strike and fade as an aggressive move also seems very situational to me, since you need to still be in combat to use it, the unit fading cant have killed anything it was fighting so you are only using fading aggressively if there is a more interesting target than whatever it was you were already fighting within an easy move+charge distance and your unit is still in fighting condition after having just fought on your opponents turn… I still see strike and fade being more useful to get your bowhunters out of melee or to give some breathing room for your monsters to heal if they are pinned down in a hard fight…
It all feels subtly anti-synergistic, like a writer had a solid first draft of raw ideas but never tested it in play. That's index life for you. But you can't expect a billion dollar company to employ a few blokes to play games and QA test rules, that would be ridiculous.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, overall I agree that Walk the Hidden Paths is super limited now. For Strike and Fade, maybe it depends on the level of play. I've seen it happen pretty often where a unit of Kurnoth Hunters gets tied down in combat on the opponent's turn and neither side is completely wiped. It's not ideal, but S&F'ing out can get you out of combat and potentially let you hit a juicier target. Getting Kurnoth Bows out of combat or even getting Tree Lords or Lady of Vines back to safety are all great uses. Don't know why I didn't mention that, lol!
Thanks for that correction. I was just reading the FAQ yesterday when I noticed that. Kind of crazy that they overlooked that when they wrote the "ignore Guarded Hero" rule.
@@gammafighter It's classic GW isn't it? "This unit ignores this special rule, but not this part of the rule, only parts of it, but we'll call it all the same thing for maximum confusion, and make no clarifications anywhere unless specifically asked for some bizarre reason. Stop playing it wrong." Enjoying your content so far man, giving some good insights into the army and AOS as a whole for a new player like myself.
@@DanMarston117 No, the FAQ question is "If an ability allows me to ignore the effects of the ‘Guarded Hero’ ability when picking targets" - the "picking targets" is the key here, as the example unit, Warlock Engineer, specifically let's them ignore the Guarded Hero *when picking targets*. Kurnoth have no such restriction or specificity, and thus ignores the whole rule.
@@DanMarston117 I wouldn't have noticed the difference if I hadn't just started playing Sylvaneth *and* just bought some Skaven, and actially looked at the difference between those two abilities. xD
Definitely, I should be more clear that Endless Growth healing with Alarielle is really restrictive. Even if you're in position to heal, if you pile in you're probably not going to be wholly within 6" anymore. I'll try to keep that in mind going forward! Thanks for the feedback!
I'm just a man, not a miracle worker, haha! But seriously, Sylvaneth changed so much in 4th edition that the whole reason I started making videos was to answer that question: how can we win? If you already have a Sylvaneth collection, I think the best thing would be to take what you learn here, put together a bunch of different lists, and play a bunch of times. If you are still building your collection, I recommend playing on TableTop Simulator and just continue to collect the models you like the most. One of the good things about AoS is that a pretty big variety of lists are viable. I remember a lot of 3rd edition Sylvaneth lists that won tournaments were very different from each other. I did a video on sample army lists and I plan to make more. You can look to those videos for ideas.
I think they maybe gimped the old way the faction played because it was a horrible experience for new players. They were pretty balanced against experience players, but if you were new and didn’t understand how to stop them, you would get wiped and they wouldn’t lose any models. I reckon they’ll give a lot more of that back, but they wanna get people into the new addition first before making them feel bad.
That's exactly what I think too. The mechanics were fairly implemented, but people hated playing against it- especially new players. To be fair, it's hard for new players to pilot a Sylvaneth list as well.
From the recent GW teasers for the SCE & Skaven tomes, I find it doubtful that we'll get any additional spells or subfactions, given that those two aren't. At best, we can hope for a replacement of subpar subs or spells for something marginally better. I wish I could say that's the only thing Sylvaneth needed, but boy, the 4e tome better be a massive overhaul of the index, otherwise the trees are doomed to be one of the two worst factions in the game for the entire edition. _AGAIN._
Yeah, those two tomes are massively disappointing. One more spell lore and one more subfaction feel like the absolute minimum required. Let's hope that this is just because they are the first two. Sylvaneth need a lot of changes to help us out!
CORRECTION:
Alarielle's recursion is on a 4+, not a 3+! That means you're likely to successfully bring back 2 units per game on average.
Also, the faction trait healing only works when the unit is wholly within 6". Alarielle's base is so big that she has to be partially on the Awakened Wyldwood's roots in order to be wholly within 6". So it's possible for her to benefit from the Lords of the Clan battle formation, but it's not easy.
wow a sylvaneth youtuber. Will definitely watch all of your vids.
Although I'm strongly considering starting another army. Sylvaneth index is just a total disaster. Good thing I collected around 5k points of 'em end of 3rd😢
Thanks for watching! Hey, at least you have all those great-looking models to enjoy. Even if you lose, your army will look good doing it!
Hopefully the Battletome fixes a lot of our issues. They may have broken the faction just so they can sell us the solution in the future, lol.
Came back for a second comment just to say that having now watched all your Sylvaneth videos I really like your content, have subscribed and will be recommending your videos! Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! That really means a lot to me. Hope you continue to enjoy!
Im getting a lot of 2.5k points of trees this sunday! Really excited, i have like 300 bucks of store credit at my LGS so im debating between krondys son of dracotion or an alarielle
GW really wants us to pay for that below average win rate in 3rd edition
Also love that strike and fade is now strike, wait, get hit, then fade but only if you were bad at striking and are still in combat oh and also you have to be wholly within 6" of a tree down from 9"... Utterly gutted ability.
Summoning trees is a huge pain, but it's not like they gave Skaven the ability to summon their faction terrain every single turn for free though, right? right?..
Does a single person at GW play Sylvaneth?
Yeah, Sylvaneth has really been crippled in 4th edition. But they're my favorite models, so they remain my favorite faction. I'm really interested to see what strategies people have success with, but I think we'll be in the lower tier factions for the whole edition. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
"Summoning trees is a huge pain, but it's not like they gave Skaven the ability to summon their faction terrain every single turn for free though, right? right?.."
This in particular makes it more painful to see how gutted our trees/mobility got this edition.
I don't understand peoples disappointment and evaluations. Sylvaneth already had strong showings in tournaments.
@@falcogress1136 The entire reason I wanted to play Sylvaneth is because I wanted to summon cool trees and do sneaky cool strike and fade mechanics. That part of the army is absolutely gutted, and now we rely on running where we want and shooting. Heck half the time my trees benefit my opponent more, having them use them as free mobility via charge and then piling in to my units they normally couldn't reach with a charge.
The only good list is Belthanos + Alarielle + 6 Bow Kurnoths + Durthu + whatever for tactics. We went from a tactical army to just using giant monster beatsticks that heal if they're not 1 shot.
If I wanted to just run to enemies, hit them hard, and shoot, I'd have picked a different army.
@@kem9621 that's a very valid argument, I understand that. Sorry for you and other people who feel that way.
this thumbnail looks nice! where'd you find it, if you dont mind my asking?
Thanks, glad you like it! I was a big fan of this one too. This thumbnail was generated by AI. I stopped using AI because it's pretty divisive in terms of ethics and quality.
@@gammafighter Ah, that'll always stir the bees. I still like your style and plan to stick around!
thanks for the effort!
Happy to do it. Thanks for watching!
U forget that we can give run and charge via subfaction to bugs. And ur forget that we have fight first via abilities. One combo with scythes very well. Keep going looks good
Thanks for your feedback!
IMO, if you're going to use the Run and Charge subfaction, you are much better off bringing Belthanos so up to 3 units can use Run and Charge regardless of their unit type. I mentioned that in another video, but you're right that I could have said that again here.
As far as Fight First abilities, it's not that we don't have it at all, it's that it's just the one unit or the combo with the Branchwych. So we're generally only going to have one unit that has it compared to a faction like Idoneth Deepkin that gives it to their whole army on turn 3.
Hope that clarifies my take! Thanks for watching!
Also fight last ability on the TLA, but none of them dependable, more like a threat to your opponent. Though that is perhaps the direction GW are going in for the design of these abilities.
@@gammafighter Definitely agree with the run & charge subfaction, and like you say, strike first/last are not major features of the army, even if we have some sprinkling of it across the list. This video is a really nice overview for people who are familiar with AoS and are perhaps e.g. looking to start a 2nd army. Great job!
I think Seed of Rebirth and the Run&Charge battle formation are the one-unit alternative to Alarielle’s recursion and Belthanos (any) 3 units run and charge. Clearly they are monsters that bring a lot of other value (combat+abilities), but the fact their coolest abilities can be somehow partially replaced makes me think if we can save points and avoid bringing them.
u got a sub great job!
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Great vid!
Btw, Alarielle recursion is on 4+ not 3+
My bad! I must have confused it with her impact hits! Thanks for pointing that out!
Thanks for watching!
Great video mate!
I have actually found AWW is not that effective in blocking movement and can be used by your opponent to reach our units, if they fall short with a charge - as faction terrain can now be charged.
I was afraid of that. Unfortunately, it creates some unintuitive movement options for our opponents. It's something unique about Sylvaneth for sure, but I think you're right that it's more of an liability than a benefit. Thanks for sharing!
@gammafighter I saw a great sylvaneth review on AoS coach with Michael Taune (may have spelt that wrong), he said it took about 15 games to learn how to place the trees. And that he found it a good idea to only try to place them the turn you need them, generally behind our troops but within range.
The good thing with having terrain set-up guides is that we can kind of plan out where and when we might want to place trees - could even plan this for facing different army builds we may face...
@@gabethefish7585 Yes, I saw that! I'm planning a video to go over my takeaways from that interview and from Vince Venturella's review of 4th edition so far.
I'm confused about walk the hidden paths. Is it not possible to move after using walk the hidden paths and if so where do we see that in the rules? As far as I can tell you could use it at the start of your movement phase and then move and then charge after. I'm not an expert though.
Unfortunately, that would be way too strong. Walk the Hidden Paths is tagged with the Core keyword and you can only used one Core ability per phase. Moving is also a Core ability, so you can't do both.
In 3rd edition, the rules were different, so we could move and then Walk the Hidden Paths, but we still couldn't move after teleporting. In 3rd the Spiteswarm Hive also gave +3 to charge rolls, so we only had to make a 6" charge after teleporting. This made teleport+charge much more reliable. Now the best we can get after teleporting is an 8" charge, which is just not reliable enough.
@@gammafighter that makes sense thanks! Could we teleport and then run? With belthanos (and special rules from my ptg campaign) certain units can run and charge, which seems like it would be very likely to make it (especially if we take the full run with a command point).
@@szucs2020 No, Run is also a Core ability unfortunately!
@@gammafighter how does that work though because you can move and run in the same turn? Sorry for all the questions
Oh I'm stupid run includes the move in it
I have one question about the awakened Wyldwoods , where does it state in the core book about the 18’ of the caster ? I Can’t find anywhere
Thanks in advance
It's in the Sylvaneth book, not the core rules. Under the Spell Lore on page 6:
"If there are fewer than 3 friendly Awakened Wyldwoods on the battlefield, you can set up an Awakened Wyldwood wholly within 18" of the caster and more than 3" from all enemy units, objectives and other terrain features."
@@gammafighter Thanks for that❤️ do you know maybe when the new book is coming out ?
I still don’t see much value in walk the hidden paths outside of getting shooting units in range. It is unlikely to work well for most tactics because trees are likely not going to be on the flanks and edges of the board, but towards the middle so that you can fight near them.
Strike and fade as an aggressive move also seems very situational to me, since you need to still be in combat to use it, the unit fading cant have killed anything it was fighting so you are only using fading aggressively if there is a more interesting target than whatever it was you were already fighting within an easy move+charge distance and your unit is still in fighting condition after having just fought on your opponents turn…
I still see strike and fade being more useful to get your bowhunters out of melee or to give some breathing room for your monsters to heal if they are pinned down in a hard fight…
It all feels subtly anti-synergistic, like a writer had a solid first draft of raw ideas but never tested it in play. That's index life for you. But you can't expect a billion dollar company to employ a few blokes to play games and QA test rules, that would be ridiculous.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, overall I agree that Walk the Hidden Paths is super limited now.
For Strike and Fade, maybe it depends on the level of play. I've seen it happen pretty often where a unit of Kurnoth Hunters gets tied down in combat on the opponent's turn and neither side is completely wiped. It's not ideal, but S&F'ing out can get you out of combat and potentially let you hit a juicier target.
Getting Kurnoth Bows out of combat or even getting Tree Lords or Lady of Vines back to safety are all great uses. Don't know why I didn't mention that, lol!
I'm pretty sure that, thanks to the FAQ on the AoS App, our Kurnoth Bows have a -1 to hit despite ignoring Guarded Hero.
Thanks for that correction. I was just reading the FAQ yesterday when I noticed that. Kind of crazy that they overlooked that when they wrote the "ignore Guarded Hero" rule.
@@gammafighter It's classic GW isn't it? "This unit ignores this special rule, but not this part of the rule, only parts of it, but we'll call it all the same thing for maximum confusion, and make no clarifications anywhere unless specifically asked for some bizarre reason. Stop playing it wrong."
Enjoying your content so far man, giving some good insights into the army and AOS as a whole for a new player like myself.
@@DanMarston117 No, the FAQ question is "If an ability allows me to ignore the effects of the ‘Guarded Hero’
ability when picking targets" - the "picking targets" is the key here, as the example unit, Warlock Engineer, specifically let's them ignore the Guarded Hero *when picking targets*. Kurnoth have no such restriction or specificity, and thus ignores the whole rule.
@@pederbergenwall Sometimes it takes an extra perspective to call into question one's reading comprehension.
@@DanMarston117 I wouldn't have noticed the difference if I hadn't just started playing Sylvaneth *and* just bought some Skaven, and actially looked at the difference between those two abilities. xD
Sylvaneth Is one of my army’s I like the least in 4. edition.
But like your channel so subscribe 🎉
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate that! Hope you continue to enjoy!
Endless growth is ww 6'', not just w 6'. So without standing on top of the lower roots of the trees, alarielle can't benefit from either battle trait
Definitely, I should be more clear that Endless Growth healing with Alarielle is really restrictive. Even if you're in position to heal, if you pile in you're probably not going to be wholly within 6" anymore. I'll try to keep that in mind going forward! Thanks for the feedback!
My point also stands for the entire army. All the battle traits are ww 6'', which complicates the usage a little
Can your next video be how to win with SLyvaneth
I'm just a man, not a miracle worker, haha!
But seriously, Sylvaneth changed so much in 4th edition that the whole reason I started making videos was to answer that question: how can we win?
If you already have a Sylvaneth collection, I think the best thing would be to take what you learn here, put together a bunch of different lists, and play a bunch of times.
If you are still building your collection, I recommend playing on TableTop Simulator and just continue to collect the models you like the most. One of the good things about AoS is that a pretty big variety of lists are viable. I remember a lot of 3rd edition Sylvaneth lists that won tournaments were very different from each other.
I did a video on sample army lists and I plan to make more. You can look to those videos for ideas.
I think they maybe gimped the old way the faction played because it was a horrible experience for new players. They were pretty balanced against experience players, but if you were new and didn’t understand how to stop them, you would get wiped and they wouldn’t lose any models. I reckon they’ll give a lot more of that back, but they wanna get people into the new addition first before making them feel bad.
That's exactly what I think too. The mechanics were fairly implemented, but people hated playing against it- especially new players. To be fair, it's hard for new players to pilot a Sylvaneth list as well.
From the recent GW teasers for the SCE & Skaven tomes, I find it doubtful that we'll get any additional spells or subfactions, given that those two aren't. At best, we can hope for a replacement of subpar subs or spells for something marginally better. I wish I could say that's the only thing Sylvaneth needed, but boy, the 4e tome better be a massive overhaul of the index, otherwise the trees are doomed to be one of the two worst factions in the game for the entire edition. _AGAIN._
Yeah, those two tomes are massively disappointing. One more spell lore and one more subfaction feel like the absolute minimum required. Let's hope that this is just because they are the first two. Sylvaneth need a lot of changes to help us out!
Not a lot of healing?!!?! Umm its tons 😅