John and Mark did a fantastic bike fit for me last year. After fits with different systems, the difference with Science2Sport is there approach aeound understanding the athlete and using their experience to acknowledge athlete limitations and apply this to the fit. Great to see John and Mark in action again on this video!!!
Issue I’ve always had with bikefit is that there is so much room for personal interpretation between different fitters. Having had a couple, some were great and made a huge difference, the other made things worse
@Darrin Grey A lot of bike fitters do this. Some of their reasons are just their thing, and don't really fall into the category of good practice. But should all be rooted in what's best for an individuals needs.
You can always do your own bike fit and tinkering around which will take you more long time to figure out whats best for you. Bike fitters will always have different take. Just like going to different doctors, their opinion varies. Go to the ones that provide rationale behind changes. Also most punters need changes on their body not more on the bike fit itself. Bike fit is not magic fix. If you want optimal then bike fit + work on your strength, mobility etc off the bike!
I've had 2 bike fits, 1 Guru and Retul. Both are worst, they say have go back and tell your fitter...they just slack and kept me on appointment which never happened. I fitted myself and I feel better. These fitter only fits you thoroughly if you're a pro.
Timely and awesome video, Tristan. Recently had a fit but some left knee pain emerged. Diagnosis: tight quadriceps and hamstrings.The fix: incorporate more targeted mobility work.
So your problem was nothing to do with fit and the solution was nothing to do with fit. Stretching and massage was the solution. Bike fits are for beginners to get started.
@@StClairCDN it's more along the lines my previous (more aero) bike fit is no longer optimal as I am getting older (and need to take better care of my body) - especially if I want to maintain a position from my earlier days.
Interesting video. I've been setting my bike up for a couple of months and the 2 main things I've done for the better is change the seat post ( no set back ) and pedal extensions to widen my Q factor, which im surprised didnt come up in this video. Yoga is a part of my daily routine.
I’ve been tinkering about this for quite sometime, narrower hip angle allows better glutes recruitment and more proper power output, but how you there are determined (and limited) by so manu factor, like flexibility, upper body mass and weight distribution, core strength, etc
Incredible! This is extremely important for anyone who rides or does and physical activity. Working on your mobility as you develop strength is the key to managing future injuries and improved performance to ultimately achieving your goals.
This is why I do it too, people don’t know what they don’t know. Often massive benefits to be had out of subtle changes. So glad I sold you that TCR all those years back bud, look at you go now brother you little weapon 🙌🏼🙌🏼
Man, this again one really interesting video! Bikefitting is something I always did, maybe because I came from a long athlete life in other sports. It's incredible how so small changes make a huge difference. Liked very much the approach of John and cool to see things that I haven't seen before in a bikefit!
I saw this video a few years ago it's now become a little bit relevant to me now that I'm waking up with the both hips sore in the mornings. I'm going to try and do some specific off the bike workouts to combat the issue
BMC needs to send you a tt bike too, you got 20,000 plus people and growing watching this beautiful BMC, seriously, better than pro teams and GCN and bike shops for advertising, tons of triathlon people too need to learn how to not be noobs
Two questions: 1) are you working on a documentary of your 3-stage race and win? 2) I purchased a used bike from an ex pro (Team DSM) and generally feel okay on the bike. However , the stem is slammed and 130mm reach. I’m fairly flexible but not a pro. I am getting better at working out a position for my shoulders and neck to avoid tightness and pain in that area, but my lower back starts to hurt after about an hour on the bike and intensifies when I push bigger gears in a seated position. I have seen bike fit videos where the fitter suggested external hip rotation and others suggested internal hip rotation. I’m bouncing in between the two depending on which alleviates the pain for the time being. All that being said, I am apprehensive to get a a bike fit cause I believe the biggest adjustment would be a slightly higher stem and maybe shortened reach, but buying a new fork and handlebar would be very costly. I do stretch almost every day and hope with more time in the saddle, my position and back get to a point where the pain is minimal until it’s time for a new bike and a bike fit is mandatory before making the purchase. What’s my question? Can subtle adjustments to saddle height, aft and fore position make enough of a change to postpone the possibly bigger adjustments to the front? (178cm, Scott Addict RC Pro, size M, 38cm bar, 130mm stem).
Hey man, this is a difficult one..I definitely understand the apprehension to buying a new fork and handlebar, but ideally if you’re having pain, having a bike fit and making those changes will be the biggest help. Even if it results in you needing to sell the current bike and buy a new one. I’m not a bike fitter and don’t want to give advice on exactly what to do, but I would say yes, subtle changes to the saddle height and fore/aft will help. Stretching will also help. But again - it’s worth speaking with a bike fitter about what the best solution is…they will always be able to give the correct advice.
If the pain and discomfort is at the top of your back ie traps, rhomboid etc then the drop and possibly reach is to low and to long. You need to either reduce drop or/and reach. So come up and also go shorter on the stem. If you unable to then an option would be to run the stem upside down so not in a negative position to try reduce drop. Lower back if this run across the back can indicate saddle height being to high and not having he range in the hamstrings, try lowering the saddle 5mm, ride and adjust as needed.
@John Wakefield measured saddle height yesterday, which was at 76cm. Based on Lemond method, I should start with 74.2cm 😯 Lowered it to 75cm on my indoor trainer and felt better in terms of power output and bum pressure. Once weather is better, i will see what it does on my road bike 🤞🏼
Very good video. You used numbers over the years . This I what we want to see , progress scientifically measured . Could you do kind of vid with running and cycling ? Subscribed
Hi Tristan, I have a question; since yesterday I have been trying to figure out who fit the sl8 for Roglic. According to all public info, Roglic is 177cm tall. He use to be a ski jumper, so unless he decided to never work on mobility Roglic is incredible flexible not by choice but he had too. He was not a chump, actually he was on track to be very successful in the sport of ski jump. Now to the main point, why did he put him on a size 52 and than put 20mm spacers under. I don’t really get it. Sl8 has a fake labeled 6 degree stem it’s 12 degree. Based on what I saw he put him on 110 stem. Size 52 frame has insignificant weight penalty to 54. So why did he put Roglic on 52? Are the riders bullshitting their hight or there is a different issue we don’t know about or at least nobody talks about… like hand position over handlebar on long rides!!!! I’m really curious.
Pro riders are all on very small bike (2-4 numbers lowers then the rest of us) with insane stem length (up to 16cm) . It puts them into very aggresive position...
@@nagasava8439 based on my question you should understand I am well informed and versatile on any matter related to cycling. They didn’t say he had a 52 size bike just based on the look of the bike I know it’s a size 52. I was hoping he gives us an answer. Sl8 54 slammed sits lower than the way he has this 52 set up. I was expecting the opposite answer to yours. I was hoping he gonna say, I don’t make riders fit on a bike I just find them the right bike. Aerodynamics are amazing benefit but Roglic is a GC rider who drafts most of the time behind his teammates. Comfort is more important for him than aerodynamic position over 80+ hours during TDF. I think it’s time where we debunk the myth of standard fitting and size recommendations based on height. Just like crankset arm length of 172.5.
Great video as always. There was no mention of cleat positioning. I am curious, is the ball of your foot over the pedal axle or is your cleat moved back so the ball is more forward?
It’s actually just a super simple stretch..there are loads of instructional videos and diagrams online. I just never knew I had tight hamstrings until this fit, so it’s something I’m aiming to work on.
@@tristantakevideo thank you! My hamstrings are very tight, also. It has been challenging to effectively stretch them out because my back and hips compensate for my hammies. I can easily touch my toes, but if I isolate my hamstrings they don't want to give much. Lol. Good luck with yours, though!
@@traversecitysufferclub Something you can try is the nordic hamstring exercise. Eccentric strength (basically control of the contraction) enables greater ROM and shows similar flexibility gains as stretching. It's important not just to be flexible but to be strong in that position or you'll be prone to injury.
probably the best bike fit clip I saw !!! bike fit is not just for your bike but usually more for the athlete (flexibility or mobility issues) !! wonderfull work bud!! 5mm plus a ton of time to strech !!
Thanks Charlie 🙏🏼 It hasn’t been an issue for me so far. Over the past few years I’ve spent plenty of time practicing relaxing my upper body, bending my elbows, taking the tension out of my shoulders and trying to rest my hands more gently on the bars by stabilizing my core instead. A lot of cyclists use locked elbows and tight shoulders to hold themselves up, which is generally what leads to pressure in their hands, whereas if you watch professional cyclists with a strong core and correct fit they don’t lock any part of their upper body. Not sure if this helps but it’s what has worked for me.
If you shoot John a quick email (or fill out the form on the site) he’ll be able to tell you. S2S has multiple fit options all tailored specifically to the rider, so as far as I understand it’s not a one-price-fits-all system.
How important is bike fit? I had a cannondale CAAD 10 Ultegra years back that was fit bad. Then I now have a few 80s and 90s steel bikes with proper fit and I can ride circles ALL DAY and then some comparing my performance between the bikes.
Perfect way of putting it. A cheaper/older/heavier/“slower” bike that is fit correctly will always outperform a new/expensive/light/“faster” bike that isn’t fit correctly.
Your fitting and adjustment focused a lot on pelvic rotation. Why was all your fitting performed on the hoods? Wouldn’t riding in the drops rotate your pelvis forward and put you in more aggressive position?
It would, and does, but most people (myself included) spend 90% or more of their time on the hoods so it’s more important to get the position correct there.
Nice video mate, very interesting and I have watched the whole thing! From the video it is showing that you got a leg length of 90cm, but that seems too long for your saddle height (685mm) with a 165mm crank. Just out of curious how the leg length was measured?
Good video and interesting. Make sure you get new cleats though. Don't learn the hard way like I did with play of worn down cleats. I came off while sprinting on a crest as foot came out of pedal. Landed on other side of road and luckily truck behind was alert and stopped in time. I came of worst with bruised back as I landed on my back. OK now but always check and update your equipment when needed. So easy to get complacent.
Hey mate, we didn’t do anything during the fit but I have a new set of Bont Cobra9 insoles on the way so hopefully they help. I’ll be going back to John soon for another check-in so will be interested to hear his thoughts.
This matches up pretty well with what my local shop owner/fitter always told me. And also the reason I'm hesitant to shell out for a computer/camera assisted fit. "Your numbers are good, the problem is in your head."
Ask a fitter who had jack all sleep and i can guarantee you there will be lapse in judgement, decision making and concentration when observing a rider. Not all fitters rely on another set of eyes aka technology. As if your eyes can capture mili second of deviation of knee going left or right.
@@PhiyackYuh it's not that I'm against a camera-aided fit. It's that, just like in the video, I have to fix the me before I can correctly fit the bike.
Im suprised he didnt tell you to raise your saddle considerably. Our height according to the Lemond method should be around 705-710. I used to have a 685 Saddle height also with the 165mm cranks. Ive raised that up now to 705 over the last few months and feel better at that height. Reckon you need a set of MTB Cleat and shoes for your Photo shoots 🤣. Bike looks awesome
The Lemond method of saddle height is based off the traditional method. We use the more updated and validated X-Y angle when measuring saddle height. Tristan had a static lower leg angle of 81.5 degrees and thigh angle of 67.3 degrees. Final outcome was was 31.2 for knee (range is 25-35) and a hip of 75 (71-83) going higher is not advisable due to hamstring range and also this will close hip angle. Remember that you need to take into account the clients physiological measurements like flexibility, leg length and so forth it's not a set value based on a method. Thank you John
If he has tight ham strings, why are you reducing the bar height when this may cause lower back pain, due to rider limitations. Surely, there would be an advantage in getting him to stretch before lowering the front end. In my mind, reduced pressure on the saddle is surely due to the increased pressure on his wrists?
I'm also perplexed by the cleat wear comment. Yes, the cleats are worn, but I had always considered the coloured areas sacrificial and separate from the function on the bike. I'm not trying to be controversial. And I have removed the part where I suggested that the bike fitter may be used to athletes that don't have the same issues as that was a bit baseless
I’ve never had lower back pain. You can see why when I do the sit-and-reach test..my lower back flexibility isn’t an issue. The lower bar height is about closing hip angle which I had room to do, within the limitations of my straight leg raise measurement. We went 10mm lower initially (shown in the video) and it was too far and my position became too aggressive for my limitations, but 5mm was an optimal balance. None of it was to do with my lower back though. There’s also no notable increase in the pressure on my hands from a reduced height of 5mm, as I’m not locked across my shoulders, in my elbows or in my wrists. The riding footage at 11:36 shows this.
@tristantakevideo Okay, sounds fair enough. That makes sense. I just wasn't sure if being at the edge of your current range of motion could have negative effects on comfort until you had sorted out your hamstrings. I suppose the 165mm cranks reduce the demand on your hamstrings, as it requires a reduced range of motion to maintain an aggressive position when compared to longer cranks? 🤔
@@johnwakefield7942 Thanks John for your reply. I was wondering reach from saddle nose to behind lever hood, but I understand you won't know all the numbers. Cheers
In some cases yes, you do run a leg length shim or in some instances run a shorter crank arm. With Tristan we didn't investigate the shim but upon final it was not needed. Knee and hip angle were good (slightly higher) but there was no hell drop or extended planter flexion. Pressure mapping also did not indicate any concerns in pressure changes to hot spots normally associated with the LL decrepency
I look at your ankle rotation, first eye they need a fix for that. Even other pro like Wout Van Aert don't rotate their ankles on a down stroke. It comes naturally.
My last fit was with the same guy who helps our (Danish) national team. That was about 300€, I think. I know he's done Søren Kragh Andersen's fit previously on private request, and I'd assume Søren pays the same as anyone else except the fitter might be paid more for additional feedback and follow-up(first follow-up is free).
wonder why he doesn’t mention any price range for his bike fitting services on his website…? for me this is usually a red flag but maybe there is a reason to that - do other bike fitters not mention it as well?
Not all bike fits will run for the same length of time or require the same adjustments. Some people come in and only need a saddle height adjustment, some people need a full fit from scratch. There’s no one size fits all so Science 2 Sport chooses to do it on a case by case basis.
i'm afraid you look like someone who was injured and came back too early. Use a sauna before you do any stretching exercises, this will help quicken your flexibility - i reduced my recovery by a third
John and Mark did a fantastic bike fit for me last year. After fits with different systems, the difference with Science2Sport is there approach aeound understanding the athlete and using their experience to acknowledge athlete limitations and apply this to the fit. Great to see John and Mark in action again on this video!!!
Issue I’ve always had with bikefit is that there is so much room for personal interpretation between different fitters. Having had a couple, some were great and made a huge difference, the other made things worse
I agree is it possible they make changes for change sake??
@Darrin Grey A lot of bike fitters do this. Some of their reasons are just their thing, and don't really fall into the category of good practice. But should all be rooted in what's best for an individuals needs.
You can always do your own bike fit and tinkering around which will take you more long time to figure out whats best for you. Bike fitters will always have different take. Just like going to different doctors, their opinion varies. Go to the ones that provide rationale behind changes. Also most punters need changes on their body not more on the bike fit itself. Bike fit is not magic fix. If you want optimal then bike fit + work on your strength, mobility etc off the bike!
@@darringrey4329 bike fitters are trying to make money, so yeah. Currently, it's not really a science.
I've had 2 bike fits, 1 Guru and Retul. Both are worst, they say have go back and tell your fitter...they just slack and kept me on appointment which never happened.
I fitted myself and I feel better.
These fitter only fits you thoroughly if you're a pro.
So what was the recommended hamstring exercises? Great vid as always, very informative & great delivery/editing.
Awesome! I guess this is the best bike fit I have ever seen. And I have seen a couple ;-)
Love this video. A bike fit is essential for any cyclist, but the extra concern shown for the athlete's body was fascinating. Good luck on your race!
Timely and awesome video, Tristan. Recently had a fit but some left knee pain emerged. Diagnosis: tight quadriceps and hamstrings.The fix: incorporate more targeted mobility work.
So your problem was nothing to do with fit and the solution was nothing to do with fit. Stretching and massage was the solution. Bike fits are for beginners to get started.
@@StClairCDN it's more along the lines my previous (more aero) bike fit is no longer optimal as I am getting older (and need to take better care of my body) - especially if I want to maintain a position from my earlier days.
Interesting video. I've been setting my bike up for a couple of months and the 2 main things I've done for the better is change the seat post ( no set back ) and pedal extensions to widen my Q factor, which im surprised didnt come up in this video. Yoga is a part of my daily routine.
great info..like the total concern of all the aspects of rider/ flexibility/ sensations etc and exact measurements
Great review of fit cause meet effect.
Thanks for the great video and sharing the expertise of this knowledgeable fitter.
I’ve been tinkering about this for quite sometime, narrower hip angle allows better glutes recruitment and more proper power output, but how you there are determined (and limited) by so manu factor, like flexibility, upper body mass and weight distribution, core strength, etc
Thanks for the interesting video. Nice benefit living in a place like Girona & having a great fitter available !
Thank you. This is one of the better videos explaining why. I definitely need to improve flexibility.
This is one of the most interesting and informative bike fit videos I've seen!
Incredible! This is extremely important for anyone who rides or does and physical activity.
Working on your mobility as you develop strength is the key to managing future injuries and improved performance to ultimately achieving your goals.
Mobility not bike fit. Right?
In the maglia azzurra on day one!!! Congratulazioni!!!!!!
This is why I do it too, people don’t know what they don’t know. Often massive benefits to be had out of subtle changes. So glad I sold you that TCR all those years back bud, look at you go now brother you little weapon 🙌🏼🙌🏼
The bike that started it all. Hope you’re well mate!
Love these videos they are so informative thanks Tristan keep up the good videos
super happy to see my coach in the video!
Thanks Tristan!
I think I must have missed it: please, what is the "ONE change = 7% MORE power" ??
Same. Would be nice if anyone can tell us where to look in the video
I missed that too! It's still a great video as such, but since 7% more power is a huge leap, I wonder no one else has asked this sofar...
Pelvic angle, I reckon
@@user-qx4bp5rf3n That. Flexibility. So the ONE change would be more stretching of the concerned muscles, ni this case...
Man, this again one really interesting video!
Bikefitting is something I always did, maybe because I came from a long athlete life in other sports. It's incredible how so small changes make a huge difference. Liked very much the approach of John and cool to see things that I haven't seen before in a bikefit!
Thanks man. Super stoked you enjoyed it so much 🙌🏼
Great video !! Wow learnt heaps. Marginal gains for the weekend warriors !!
4:20 - oh, so cute, "slightly embarrassing backstory for me, i haven't had a bikefit in five years"
The only one time I am glad I have a quill stem. Adjusting height is so easy
I’ve been waiting on this video!! Now I need to figure out getting to Girona
Mate, you totally needed this to be done. He smelled your insole. LOL
What hamstring exercises were you given?
Do you have a stretching sequence that you can share or do a video on?
+1, im having the same tightness issue and want to learn from those who fixed it. 😂
I think you need to come back home and do an effort up Fitz Hills and see how the bike fit it, great video keep up the good work
Yet another great vlog. Interesting to watch. Wishing you all the very best
Thanks Simon, glad you enjoyed 🙏🏼
Highly informative and ultimately
very useful for any level of cyclist 👌
Super interesting video!!! Nice work Tristan, best cycling content ever!!
Thanks Marc! 🤝🏼
Super video! Thanks!
This was informative - and helped me understand my own fit better.
Thanks Cory 🙏🏼 Appreciate the feedback and glad it helped.
I saw this video a few years ago it's now become a little bit relevant to me now that I'm waking up with the both hips sore in the mornings. I'm going to try and do some specific off the bike workouts to combat the issue
Great video as usual!
BMC needs to send you a tt bike too, you got 20,000 plus people and growing watching this beautiful BMC, seriously, better than pro teams and GCN and bike shops for advertising, tons of triathlon people too need to learn how to not be noobs
🙌🏼
Another excellent video
Thanks Paul 🙏🏼
Two questions: 1) are you working on a documentary of your 3-stage race and win? 2) I purchased a used bike from an ex pro (Team DSM) and generally feel okay on the bike. However , the stem is slammed and 130mm reach. I’m fairly flexible but not a pro. I am getting better at working out a position for my shoulders and neck to avoid tightness and pain in that area, but my lower back starts to hurt after about an hour on the bike and intensifies when I push bigger gears in a seated position. I have seen bike fit videos where the fitter suggested external hip rotation and others suggested internal hip rotation. I’m bouncing in between the two depending on which alleviates the pain for the time being. All that being said, I am apprehensive to get a a bike fit cause I believe the biggest adjustment would be a slightly higher stem and maybe shortened reach, but buying a new fork and handlebar would be very costly. I do stretch almost every day and hope with more time in the saddle, my position and back get to a point where the pain is minimal until it’s time for a new bike and a bike fit is mandatory before making the purchase. What’s my question? Can subtle adjustments to saddle height, aft and fore position make enough of a change to postpone the possibly bigger adjustments to the front? (178cm, Scott Addict RC Pro, size M, 38cm bar, 130mm stem).
Hey man, this is a difficult one..I definitely understand the apprehension to buying a new fork and handlebar, but ideally if you’re having pain, having a bike fit and making those changes will be the biggest help. Even if it results in you needing to sell the current bike and buy a new one. I’m not a bike fitter and don’t want to give advice on exactly what to do, but I would say yes, subtle changes to the saddle height and fore/aft will help. Stretching will also help. But again - it’s worth speaking with a bike fitter about what the best solution is…they will always be able to give the correct advice.
If the pain and discomfort is at the top of your back ie traps, rhomboid etc then the drop and possibly reach is to low and to long. You need to either reduce drop or/and reach. So come up and also go shorter on the stem. If you unable to then an option would be to run the stem upside down so not in a negative position to try reduce drop.
Lower back if this run across the back can indicate saddle height being to high and not having he range in the hamstrings, try lowering the saddle 5mm, ride and adjust as needed.
@John Wakefield @tristantakevideo thank you both. I will start with adjusting Seat height and see if that improves things.
@John Wakefield measured saddle height yesterday, which was at 76cm. Based on Lemond method, I should start with 74.2cm 😯 Lowered it to 75cm on my indoor trainer and felt better in terms of power output and bum pressure. Once weather is better, i will see what it does on my road bike 🤞🏼
Congrats on the win!
If you tilt your hips forward aren't you transferring pressure off your sitz bones and onto your perineum?
Not if you til saddle nose down accordingly
@@MarkRiddellRacing There's only so much you can tilt your saddle before you start sliding and get increased hand pressure. It's gotta be done right.
Very good video. You used numbers over the years . This I what we want to see , progress scientifically measured . Could you do kind of vid with running and cycling ? Subscribed
Hi Tristan,
I have a question; since yesterday I have been trying to figure out who fit the sl8 for Roglic. According to all public info, Roglic is 177cm tall. He use to be a ski jumper, so unless he decided to never work on mobility Roglic is incredible flexible not by choice but he had too. He was not a chump, actually he was on track to be very successful in the sport of ski jump. Now to the main point, why did he put him on a size 52 and than put 20mm spacers under. I don’t really get it. Sl8 has a fake labeled 6 degree stem it’s 12 degree. Based on what I saw he put him on 110 stem. Size 52 frame has insignificant weight penalty to 54. So why did he put Roglic on 52? Are the riders bullshitting their hight or there is a different issue we don’t know about or at least nobody talks about… like hand position over handlebar on long rides!!!! I’m really curious.
Pro riders are all on very small bike (2-4 numbers lowers then the rest of us) with insane stem length (up to 16cm) . It puts them into very aggresive position...
@@nagasava8439 based on my question you should understand I am well informed and versatile on any matter related to cycling. They didn’t say he had a 52 size bike just based on the look of the bike I know it’s a size 52. I was hoping he gives us an answer.
Sl8 54 slammed sits lower than the way he has this 52 set up. I was expecting the opposite answer to yours. I was hoping he gonna say, I don’t make riders fit on a bike I just find them the right bike. Aerodynamics are amazing benefit but Roglic is a GC rider who drafts most of the time behind his teammates. Comfort is more important for him than aerodynamic position over 80+ hours during TDF. I think it’s time where we debunk the myth of standard fitting and size recommendations based on height. Just like crankset arm length of 172.5.
Great video as always. There was no mention of cleat positioning. I am curious, is the ball of your foot over the pedal axle or is your cleat moved back so the ball is more forward?
Hey Tristan
Wondering how the 685mm seat height you mentioned related to your inseam.?
Love the channel btw
Great video
I would love to see a video on how you approach making your hamstrings more flexible
It’s actually just a super simple stretch..there are loads of instructional videos and diagrams online. I just never knew I had tight hamstrings until this fit, so it’s something I’m aiming to work on.
@@tristantakevideo thank you! My hamstrings are very tight, also. It has been challenging to effectively stretch them out because my back and hips compensate for my hammies. I can easily touch my toes, but if I isolate my hamstrings they don't want to give much. Lol. Good luck with yours, though!
@@traversecitysufferclub Something you can try is the nordic hamstring exercise. Eccentric strength (basically control of the contraction) enables greater ROM and shows similar flexibility gains as stretching. It's important not just to be flexible but to be strong in that position or you'll be prone to injury.
probably the best bike fit clip I saw !!! bike fit is not just for your bike but usually more for the athlete (flexibility or mobility issues) !! wonderfull work bud!! 5mm plus a ton of time to strech !!
Power, aero, comfort. It depends what you're using the bike for. If you optimize one you'll sacrifice the others.
Really insightful video! Interested to know if the lower front end leads to any issues with hand pressure? And how you/one would deal with this?
Thanks Charlie 🙏🏼 It hasn’t been an issue for me so far. Over the past few years I’ve spent plenty of time practicing relaxing my upper body, bending my elbows, taking the tension out of my shoulders and trying to rest my hands more gently on the bars by stabilizing my core instead. A lot of cyclists use locked elbows and tight shoulders to hold themselves up, which is generally what leads to pressure in their hands, whereas if you watch professional cyclists with a strong core and correct fit they don’t lock any part of their upper body. Not sure if this helps but it’s what has worked for me.
Had my first advanced bike fit last year after too many years. Did wonders for my position on a new bike.
5:28 I already know and feel that I have tight hamstrings, but I am definitely more at about 80 degrees with that test
next time ask about the pricing, they dont have any info on their site.
If you shoot John a quick email (or fill out the form on the site) he’ll be able to tell you. S2S has multiple fit options all tailored specifically to the rider, so as far as I understand it’s not a one-price-fits-all system.
Good vid mate. Get on a proper race bike if you want to get all your watts into the road vs lose watts from road disc drag and weight.
Hey Tristan, great video and insight! Thanks for this.
What height are you? And your inseam is around 73-74cm?
How important is bike fit? I had a cannondale CAAD 10 Ultegra years back that was fit bad. Then I now have a few 80s and 90s steel bikes with proper fit and I can ride circles ALL DAY and then some comparing my performance between the bikes.
Perfect way of putting it. A cheaper/older/heavier/“slower” bike that is fit correctly will always outperform a new/expensive/light/“faster” bike that isn’t fit correctly.
Do you use the BRP of 70mm for the saddle? I had a bike fit but when i changed bikes the measurments were way out.
Very interesting video, If you have done stretch hamstrings, it would be interesting video. Stretching for Hamstring, pelvis and in general for biking
Your fitting and adjustment focused a lot on pelvic rotation. Why was all your fitting performed on the hoods? Wouldn’t riding in the drops rotate your pelvis forward and put you in more aggressive position?
It would, and does, but most people (myself included) spend 90% or more of their time on the hoods so it’s more important to get the position correct there.
Nice video mate, very interesting and I have watched the whole thing! From the video it is showing that you got a leg length of 90cm, but that seems too long for your saddle height (685mm) with a 165mm crank. Just out of curious how the leg length was measured?
It is measured in 2 parts. from the trochanter to the heel and then we do lower leg only additionally.
Tried to go to the website but it saying that it’s not secure/private.
It's back up now. The click-through rate from the video caused the server to crash..🤣
@@tristantakevideo 👍 hope you are feeling better.
Thanks mate 🙏🏼
A bike fit is absolutely essential. Ideally before you buy a bike. Most important are shoes that fit well.
Another informational video.
I run the same bmc carbon cockpit and wonder how the guy can remove the spacer without cutting either the hoses or the spacer? 🤔
The spacer is split..it clips together in the middle to allow for easy taking on and off.
😂 you re perfectly right didnt notice you can split them
Good video and interesting. Make sure you get new cleats though. Don't learn the hard way like I did with play of worn down cleats. I came off while sprinting on a crest as foot came out of pedal. Landed on other side of road and luckily truck behind was alert and stopped in time. I came of worst with bruised back as I landed on my back. OK now but always check and update your equipment when needed. So easy to get complacent.
Yeah I literally walked from the lab to the shop and got some new cleats. As I said in the video..it’s embarrassing how bad they were.
Use mountain bike shoes man. I race Div1 with them no probs. Best to live with shoes as well.
Why
Hi Tristan! What did you end up doing with your insoles regarding the pressure under the first met? I'm having similar issues... thanks!
Hey mate, we didn’t do anything during the fit but I have a new set of Bont Cobra9 insoles on the way so hopefully they help. I’ll be going back to John soon for another check-in so will be interested to hear his thoughts.
The website don't work
It's back up now
This matches up pretty well with what my local shop owner/fitter always told me. And also the reason I'm hesitant to shell out for a computer/camera assisted fit. "Your numbers are good, the problem is in your head."
Ask a fitter who had jack all sleep and i can guarantee you there will be lapse in judgement, decision making and concentration when observing a rider. Not all fitters rely on another set of eyes aka technology. As if your eyes can capture mili second of deviation of knee going left or right.
@@PhiyackYuh it's not that I'm against a camera-aided fit. It's that, just like in the video, I have to fix the me before I can correctly fit the bike.
Im suprised he didnt tell you to raise your saddle considerably. Our height according to the Lemond method should be around 705-710. I used to have a 685 Saddle height also with the 165mm cranks. Ive raised that up now to 705 over the last few months and feel better at that height. Reckon you need a set of MTB Cleat and shoes for your Photo shoots 🤣. Bike looks awesome
The Lemond method of saddle height is based off the traditional method. We use the more updated and validated X-Y angle when measuring saddle height. Tristan had a static lower leg angle of 81.5 degrees and thigh angle of 67.3 degrees. Final outcome was was 31.2 for knee (range is 25-35) and a hip of 75 (71-83) going higher is not advisable due to hamstring range and also this will close hip angle. Remember that you need to take into account the clients physiological measurements like flexibility, leg length and so forth it's not a set value based on a method.
Thank you
John
If he has tight ham strings, why are you reducing the bar height when this may cause lower back pain, due to rider limitations. Surely, there would be an advantage in getting him to stretch before lowering the front end.
In my mind, reduced pressure on the saddle is surely due to the increased pressure on his wrists?
Cheers for speaking on my behalf but literally all of the points in this comment are incorrect.
@@tristantakevideo explain why then?
I'm also perplexed by the cleat wear comment. Yes, the cleats are worn, but I had always considered the coloured areas sacrificial and separate from the function on the bike.
I'm not trying to be controversial. And I have removed the part where I suggested that the bike fitter may be used to athletes that don't have the same issues as that was a bit baseless
I’ve never had lower back pain. You can see why when I do the sit-and-reach test..my lower back flexibility isn’t an issue. The lower bar height is about closing hip angle which I had room to do, within the limitations of my straight leg raise measurement. We went 10mm lower initially (shown in the video) and it was too far and my position became too aggressive for my limitations, but 5mm was an optimal balance. None of it was to do with my lower back though.
There’s also no notable increase in the pressure on my hands from a reduced height of 5mm, as I’m not locked across my shoulders, in my elbows or in my wrists. The riding footage at 11:36 shows this.
@tristantakevideo
Okay, sounds fair enough. That makes sense. I just wasn't sure if being at the edge of your current range of motion could have negative effects on comfort until you had sorted out your hamstrings. I suppose the 165mm cranks reduce the demand on your hamstrings, as it requires a reduced range of motion to maintain an aggressive position when compared to longer cranks? 🤔
What knee angle did you end up with?
If those cleats are old and worn, mine are prehistoric 😆
Weirdly I have exact,y the same frame size, saddle height, setback and crank length as you 🤓 Out of interest, what is your reach?
depending where you take the value from it is 49cm. Note that this is not measured with traditional
@@johnwakefield7942 Thanks John for your reply. I was wondering reach from saddle nose to behind lever hood, but I understand you won't know all the numbers. Cheers
Hi, I noticed that one of your legs is shorter than the other. Often shims are recommended in these cases. Was this considered?
In some cases yes, you do run a leg length shim or in some instances run a shorter crank arm. With Tristan we didn't investigate the shim but upon final it was not needed. Knee and hip angle were good (slightly higher) but there was no hell drop or extended planter flexion.
Pressure mapping also did not indicate any concerns in pressure changes to hot spots normally associated with the LL decrepency
Just slam it!!!!!!
What gonimeter are you using with the digi-pas?
We build these ourselves from 3 parts. They not available to the public unfortunately
I look at your ankle rotation, first eye they need a fix for that.
Even other pro like Wout Van Aert don't rotate their ankles on a down stroke. It comes naturally.
Nice
What brand are your bib shorts?
They’re Attaquer - there’s a link in the description if you’d like to see more 👌🏼
size? Go smaller than larger.
What kind of budget is the pro fit ?
My last fit was with the same guy who helps our (Danish) national team. That was about 300€, I think. I know he's done Søren Kragh Andersen's fit previously on private request, and I'd assume Søren pays the same as anyone else except the fitter might be paid more for additional feedback and follow-up(first follow-up is free).
Great video...I am willing to bet 95% of your audience has tight hamstrings! Please show us the exercises! :)
Hello
Maybe I missed it, but what doesn't a fit like this cost if you're not a pro who gets it sponsored?
a lot
Probably around 500 USD
@@MaxRothFitness Our prices are not near that amount luckily
I saw some local prices (US) for about $280 for a complete assessment and fit.
wonder why he doesn’t mention any price range for his bike fitting services on his website…? for me this is usually a red flag but maybe there is a reason to that - do other bike fitters not mention it as well?
Not all bike fits will run for the same length of time or require the same adjustments. Some people come in and only need a saddle height adjustment, some people need a full fit from scratch. There’s no one size fits all so Science 2 Sport chooses to do it on a case by case basis.
this guy just seems like a computer
'88 Windows maybe
i think the bold look suits you brother.
You guys might want to explain what open or closed hips means instead of assuming that everybody who watches this video knows what that means.
Noted 🫡
Pontificating complexity .. I'll take provisional solutions
Don’t you think a bike fit is a provisional solution ?
@@beau2047 definitely not .. but way more effective than a bike fit
exactly who is riding the bike ? you, or the fitter ? ride lots, listen to your body and dont be afraid to make changes
Yep 👍🏼
i think t-shirt fits for both of you would be a start. LOL. depressing colours!
What do you recommend, Hugo? Sounds like you know a thing or two about fashion.
Bullshitt claim... on 20% climb bike fitting has nothing to do.... it is all about human power.
😂😂😂
i'm afraid you look like someone who was injured and came back too early. Use a sauna before you do any stretching exercises, this will help quicken your flexibility - i reduced my recovery by a third
What part of me looks like I’ve had an injury?
@@tristantakevideo your hamstring - what else -
Nice to know. Strange though given I’ve never had a single injury in either of my legs, ever.