UPDATE. 2 days after this video: “To help new characters, we’ve added an opt-in to PvP safety option. This is available to non-combatants that are level 5 or lower, in the starting areas” Comment your thoughts and debate below. I will read through these in stream. (Also. Surely it wasn’t an editing error. I said it twice for emphasis 😏) AOC VoV Discord: discord.gg/tNHaDmqgTz
Ohh yes... Snowflakes are making a PvP game in 2024 and then when other snowflakes are logging in to get killed, BUT they are a streamer they get special treatment, which starts the avalanche of making the game totally PvE... How is making the starting zone a "PvP" suppression zone going to help? I can literally wait you outside that zone as a max level and just start a fight the moment you try to leave that... Btw anyone actually read 5:25 ? They already ruined PvP with that.... what the f is even the point of PvP, if only you lose on it? Just the movespeed decrease in self would be enough to lose easily and let me guess that if you kill a corrupted player you don't even get corrupted at all... This is the usual r******d design of so called """""PVP""""" games these days. Are you corrupted? Get ganged 10v1 any time. When this game will finally release you will not even lose XP on death... Always the same crap... PvP is already pointless and they will just keep making it even more pointless... Yeah i so want to do open world PvP in a game where i drop my gear on death... 10/10 awesome design. You are either EQUAL with everyone... no matter who is that... or you are not. This is clearly a game with 0 equality, 5:25 makes that clear. Btw tell me any time the benefit of doing PvP as a PK, i'm interested... and i bet there is literally non. Wtf call this crap a PvP game then?
@@lordcarl3094There is decent amount of PvP going on and I don't think I've seen a single corrupt player so far. You don't get corrupt for PvPing. You go corrupt for killing someone who doesn't fight back.
even if there is a corruption system, because they are killing him at level 1 that means they can just make a new character kill him then just delete and make a new character, it's a complete bypass of the corruption system, I'f i were them i would disable world pvp below level 4.
Its already dead, a 10 minute gankfest is all I needed to know. I have no interest in this now, it looked like a cool game too but all those griefers can have it and play the game alone.
@@smellykat6481 Relax, a lot of features have not been implemented yet and this is in alpha. It's a LITERAL testing ground and this situation shows that the testing ground works.
@@smellykat6481 It's just asmond gold that got this treatment. I've been playing for 3 weeks now, including the pre-alpha tests, and the only time I ever saw people actually go red was just before the wipe. I have currently seen some max level players running around after storing their gear and killing people which i think is an issue that needs to get addressed, but so far the pvp in this game feels fine.
@@rattlehead999 not relavent to what joshuaadkins9820 said GMs were telling the other players who were harassing Asmondgold to back off and let him play...and stupid sub room temp IQ players were ignoring it.They Fed around and they found out...players need to be held accountable for there actions...
I saw the griefing of the Bald One LIVE and it def made me Not want to play the game. Especially the XP-loss is a no go, i will not invest my time just to have my progress removed.
@@MrAngryMonkey100 Honestly some people dont even see banners cause the are so common but rarely ever have anything of subsatance or they dont provide any benefit. Secondly Thats abuse of power. The video is right on why the devs would do it but the underlying motivation doesnt make it not preferential treatment.
Why can people PVP in the STARTER ZONE??? There should be no PVP in the starter zone regardless if some one is flagged or not. In all PVP games there has to be some safe zones in specific areas. The starter zone being one of those areas...
@@driftaaa agreed. They are working on getting this implemented ASAP. I’m hoping it’s soon cause it can cause a negative experience if griefers are around. Sad that this is needed even in an alpha
Steven alluded to the reason on PirateSoftware's stream: he was HOPING that all the people who were invested enough in the game's future to spend $120 for access to alpha builds of it, who were logging in to a buggy, incomplete version of the game that was as ugly and broken as it will ever be, who had signed up to submit bug reports to try and make sure the game would launch in as complete a state as possible he was HOPING that those people might have the basic human decency and common fucking sense to not actively grief new players, brag about it in game chat, and respond to GMs saying "hey, stop griefing" with comments like "fuck off." This SHOULD have been a reasonable expectation. Instead, he had to permaban people, and I hope they're blacklisted to boot. Even after starter zones have PvP protection in place, as someone who played old school world PvP MMOs for years, the kinds of people who were featured in purple in this video don't deserve a spot. Anyone who genuinely needs to have the difference between PvP and griefing explained to them after being told what each term means doesn't belong in games with PvP.
I honestly don't think that's necessary out of all streamers/people this only happened to asmon this was an isolated incident not to mention the city guards seem to have done a good job at killing most of the players that were flagging this is a streamer problem not a game problem I think next time asmon tries to play he should have contingencies while on stream like having many of his fans/ friends guarding him with some look outs a bit distant from him to warn them of an approaching player ahead of time stream sniping is always an issue with open world pvp games EDIT: nvm I saw it was a cleric killing those guys they should make city guards kill flagged/corrupt players in starting area
Griefing low level players is one of the fastest ways to kill a game. I am all for open world pvp/pk but killing newbie players at starting area is moronic.
This only happens because he is a streamer and they are willing to pay the corruption price for doing it. You would never see this otherwise, corruption is too punishing, specially if you kill someone with a lot less level than you.
@@mubris9705 doesn't change the fact for it being stupid, literally givin away vibe tht it will happen to anyone. ur avg andy will not try to think oh its bcs he is a streamer, he sees newb being ganked on oh well guess i am out.
you clearly dont play pvp, when people gank you get stronger if that doesnt help for some reason get your buddies and grave camp them , if enough people do this no one would mess with you, if you say that only just started the game theres alot of solutions to this problem so it doesnt happen right off the bat.
Yeah buf if you try to base your game design on what some huge streamer's audience perception is gonna be, you are gonna be handcuffed for so many things. This will not be the only issue he will run into. Every caravan he'll run it will turn into a 500v500 battle, the castle he'll probably own will get sieged every month, the node he'll be mayor of same thing... Devs can't tailor the game for his extremely unique experience, and even Asmongold agrees with me on this. Sadly it's posible that it's not a game that big streamers can stream.
Thor from Pirate Software got stream sniped as well. Some people are just plain jealous of anyone that gets more attention then them, even though they worked hard for their audience. In Thor's case they waited until he was filling in a bug report to gank him so he couldn't fight back, he then called in his guild and put their guild on KOS. This guild then proceeded to spam the GMs in an attempt to get him banned resulting in Thor upgrading the KOS order to KOS IN PERPETUITY (aka permanent KOS) for engaging in out of game tactics.
it's funny seeing this. what's this going to accomplish exactly? either thor is going to fail because the other guild is bigger or has better players and they're forced to quit the game because the other guild has marked them with KoS, or the exact same will happen but the other way around. either way you're left with more and more people quitting the game because of bad game design.
Why in the love of god no one thought about implementing eve online security system to mmorpgs? Full pvp everywhere, but No security - caves, dungeons, high end locations. Kill everyone and everything. Maybe add some pvp and pk lowless factions and towns Low security - few roaming adventurer guards, few guards in settlements, outposts. Guards are killable with +2 party. No pk jail. Medium security - villages, small cities and outskirts. Roaming patrols, more guards in cities and towns. Roaming Guards are killable with a party of 6+. If you pk and caught - jail with medium time. High security - main towns and cities, capitals. Huge roaming patrols, guard towers, huge ammoung of guards in towns. Killable guards with raid party of 30+. If you pk - you are sent to jail for a long time. Max security - starting location and outskirts. Insane ammount of very powerfull guards. If you pk here your character is banned from high and medium locations, guards will attack on sight. Every npc in high and med sec loca will be hostile, no trade, no quests. (Add some secret quests for lowless chars for fun) Very long duration on this status, like a week irl.
Ye people that engage in player killing shouldn't have an easy way to clean it, they should be relegated to their own cities and have to try really hard to clean the corruption.
honestly they can just steal the system from L2 - free pvp everywhere (except safe zones like towns) - if you're flagged and you kill someone who is not flagged you become a PK character - you have karma which is reduced either by dying or receiving EXP from mobs - the more unflagged people you kill the faster you gain karma points - on top of that, when you're a PK character everyone can attack you without being flagged - add to this possibility to drop items when you're dying as PK
@smh- they already have that flagging system. And I think there should be outlaw towns in the ragged edges of developed areas. A more eve like system would be better.
PVP is not something they can turn on/off in just a part of the map. They have to edit the base code to make it even possible. Edit: to clarify for you low IQs that keep replying to me, I'm am not saying it is hard or anything to disable pvp at starter zone, I am only saying it was not something they had written the code to do. Yes having PVP in some places but not others does need extra code that they did not see the need for.
It's an alpha; it's here to test systems; it's fine. PvP is on in the starting zone. I've leveled four characters to around level 9-10 and have only encountered consensual PvP. It's really not Ashes' problem that Asmongold is a big streamer with a weird community.
yeah, im not gonna be playing this... Ive experience this in several games years ago... download a game start playing, got gank as soon as I leave safe zone, died couple times and uninstall the game... getting killed out of nowhere is not fun in any context and this game will remain a niche pvp game as it is design to be
I have a question, what exactly did you hate? The fact that you were getting killed by players who are ten levels above you and you can't do anything against them? Or the fact that you were just getting killed?
@@schwarzbrecht7624 Can't speak for OP (ofcourse), but I have similar feelings as they do when it comes to these sorts of things. To answer your question; For me, it's mainly the first point. I (and I'm sure many others) like to feel like they're making progress in the games they play. When mmo's have open world pvp (especially forced and early on) it deters a lot of players who primarily focus on pve (like myself). The unfortunate truth is place mostly anyone new to a game into an unfair situation that they cannot win (ie. cannot fight off much stronger players), and it'll naturally deter them from wanting to engage with the rest of the game and see what it has to offer. ------------------ This is why they say early game first impressions are very important, as they're the catalyst that makes that player decide if the game peaks their interest or if it isn't for them.
I'm not interested in any mmo that forces me into a system i hate and then penalizes me by wasting my time and rewards the jerk by validating them with killing my character. Never have never will play or invest in an open world pvp game with no pve only servers. I don't care how stale the market is, my time is valuable and i won't waste it in a game that validates people trying to ruin the small amount of escapism i get.
@@pvprangergod4024 if u zerg someone who cant really fight back in a game thats not really about mechanical skill you're not a pvp player. you're one of those pve players cosplaying as someone who likes pvp
@@pvprangergod4024 If you can't understand the distinction between real pvp and this sht, you might be one of these cringelord pvper mentionned. Another random hater trying to mess with ppl instead to move on and do something else
@@pvprangergod4024Never play games again. you have no idea how Marketaing works, or how customers come into your company (if you work) to give you money in the first place. Go dig ditches outside somewhere.
The corruption system is fine as a disincentive, what isn't is having an EXP loss inflicted from non-consensual PVP as that punishes the player over and above the annoyance of being killed.
You dont lose XP, instead you keep what XP you have, but instead to keep leveling up you must fill a second XP bar (About 4% of a 100%) before the XP you gain keeps adding to your main XP bar. according to piratesoftware its not a lot, at level 10 the death penalty is about a single 3-star mob worth of XP. There is also a cap on how much debt can be accrued.
Ya, you cant be punishing the player attacked. Certainly shouldn’t punish them more if they defend themselves. Why am i getting corrupted for not just standing there and taking it?
@@XxBearZeusxX That's still xp loss just in a different way dude, stop it. If it's taking you longer to level, whether you are losing it direct, or forced to earn more than you otherwise would have you are incurring an xp penalty. Yours is a semantic argument.
Yes I believe there should be safe zones where you can't PvP unless you have a bounty for that person. I also feel like PvP should be shut off until level 5 at least.
Perma ban deserved, some people will say its preferental treatment, but its only becasue the griefing is easily visible on stream when its recorded and broadcasted.
Simple, the troglodyte (asmon) can just play off stream. He's a public figure, he's infamous/famous its gonna happen. The fact he hasn't comprehended this in the years he's been a multimillionaire streamer shows you his IQ is low.
Need to make a self-sufficient starting zone without pvp, where you will be taught combat, professions, a caravan in some form, and then released into the open world
I think a starter level protection is an obvious choice. Cannot target, or be targeted for pvp until lvl 10. If anyone knows the game Tibia, I think it's mirrored a lot by AoC's corruption system, and it has a starter zone up to lvl 8 (last time I played years ago) where you can't pvp at all.
Starter level protection wont work, because people will just use lowlvl characters to spy and grief in other ways, since they can't be killed. What instead needs to be done is starter zone protection.
Without a doubt there are is a group of people inside the AoC community who dont want Asmon playing. They don't want Pirate software starting his mega guild, they don't want other people playing the game in the manor they would like it played. This is one of these situations where the AoC community are their own worst enemies. Imagine the arrogance of trying to shutdown or silence people wanting to play the game in the way they want!
Such a simple solution for them too... play on a different server. All the streamers are on the same server, very very easy to avoid them or their affect on the server by just playing on one of the other servers.
You give them far, FAR too much credit. From my experience they are often mentally handicapped or just kids, imagine monkey with a stick that does not get smacked back.. It's extremely primitive behavior.
I’ll say what I’ve said a few times. For now I think the AoC community is doing things that will hurt the game down the road. If people don’t get their act together we may be cooked
I remember watching a part of that stream, honestly the first thing that came to my mind after seeing Asmongold get killed in the starting area was "wow this game looks like trash" and then any thoughts of trying it myself evaporated. Non-consensual pvp is just a bad idea for any game, the only types of players it attracts are griefers who's only goal is to make other people have a bad time, and the only kinds of fights those kinds of people want are one-sided ones.
I disagree, if a game is made with open PvP in mind it's alright but there should be non-pvp or optional pvp servers for people like you who would prefer pve and Charlove.
Agreed, i played too many MMO's with open world PVP while they always start out good the PVP always devolves as players get board waiting for new content.
As a follow up, the corruption system doesn't do anything in a coordinated attempt at ganing. Get to 10 people to kill 1 person 1 time each. That person loses EXP 10 times and the individuals get 1 count of corruption. Double horse shit.
or, play in a group of 10 and have 2-3 people be the PK'ers and the rest are support healing the people tagged with corruption and protecting them from attackers. there's no easy way to solve this either. you could force sharing corruption with all players in a group, but then you're going to have people griefing their own teammates by randomly attacking/killing people. world pvp is just a bad idea in general. give us proper fair instanced matchmaking pvp.
Im glad i saw this, i was JUST about to buy in but no thanks i dont like pvp i just want to get home from work and chill and zomb out not getting ganked by sweats.
Anyone who didn't see this coming is coping and the possibility of it happening to any player while they're casually chilling is going to be the #1 stress point that holds back this game from blowing up. Losing and thus wasting your limited time to play games is not going to sit well with the majority of the gamer base. If anything one idea is for there to be rotating zones where open pvp is allowed and the others being optional, otherwise it won't obtain the core population it takes to maintain in online game. Pvp activities that should be included instance battlegrounds, open and instance arenas, instance large scale maps where you can capture/siege/destroy castles, forts, towns, camps, etc. When thinking about the guild base creation system it would make sense to allow guilds to have two kinds of bases, a main one in a non open-pvp zone and outposts in open pvp zones allowing players to run supply missions between the two bases.
Steven is underestimating the people's need to grief regardless of how much you will punish them World PvP is super niche and as much as people say they want it, there is a reason a game with many millions of players decided to remove it completely, vast majority don't like it. All it takes it being in the wrong place at the wrong time farming, maybe having a bad day and deciding that you want to kill someone who is in your farm spot, and then that someone's guild has you on KoS list, good luck
"vast majority dont like it" yes, yes we do, Carebears like you come into a pvp game and demand they remove pvp. ITs tiring, go play something else if you dont like world pvp.
I still remember in Black Desert Online how people would PK me for simply walking through their farming/grinding area. I was never fighting "their mobs", and I was just running through the area to get to another destination. I essentially just became apart of their mob grind. 🙃
@@framinthor And it's fine, every single game doesn't need to appeal to people like you! I love having that pressure of high risk high reward where you went to the best grinding zone but with the risk of fighting people coming for you. It was also making life skilling much more interesting and some NPC location much trickier.
I was keeping an eye on AoC, but I'm not a huge fan of open world PVP. I don't care what systems they put in place, or how punishing they are, people will do this shit just for kicks. I'll pass on AoC.
Good luck to Steven and the crew. PvP always on mmo's have always ended up becoming gank boxes. There is, and always will be, players who are only there to ruin the experience for other players. They don't care about the game, they don't care about the company, they only care about themselves, and getting their rocks off killing people. I've played pretty much every mmo that has come out since 1999, and the ones that have open pvp always have this problem. Creating a safe zone for newbies doesn't fix it either. The psycho players are always outside of it waiting for you to step out. No matter how punishing the penalty is they will find a way around it. They will do whatever it takes, even if they have to delete their character and start over, just to make sure they can make as many people suffer as possible. Then the problem becomes do you ban them? If you do then it degrades the purpose of the pvp always on system. I have no idea how to fix it since it is a problem with people and their psychosis.
I am pretty sure banning people with tents outside PVP zones does not impact the rest of the system. Because said fools are actively not engaging in PVP, instead avoid it by preying on weak players. If the corruption element in the game does not cut it then still the pvp scene loses nothing by these people vanishing.
I've been playing mmo since 2000 (Tibia and and UO), and yeah.... Too many weird angry losers love pvpmmo for them to be a successful genre... Maybe back in the day when success was measure muuuuch differently... But with a budget like AoC, it's insane to think they wouldn't take realize that open pvp doesn't make it's money back because there are people playing the game who don't want it to make money, they don't want people to have fun. They want to prove they are the best at killing people and the best at killing games.
@@snazzydrew How many of the failed always on PVP mmo's had a box cost and a paid subscription? Wouldn't getting account banned be a pretty quick deterrent due to the cost of getting back in the game to continue to grief?
@@rtcmedic Ultima Online. My first MMO. Sadly I don't have the patience to explain the ecosystem of RMT and digital worlds to you... Just know that people who are really hardcore about open world pvp MMOs tend have weak morals.
you dont lose xp, instead you keep what XP you have, but instead to keep leveling up you must fill a second xp bar (About 4% of a 100%) before the xp you gain keeps adding to your main xp bar
@@XxBearZeusxX semantics. still have to either regain xp lost or clear a debt before more xp can be gained. Either case it shouldn't happen at all in a forced pvp game. Sure, make it a penalty for the corrupted players who eventually die, they can lose a chunk of xp I guess. But even that is iffy and will cause people to be turned off of the game regardless of how much or how little xp you 'lose'. Loss xp is still loss xp and time.
@@luuin you are missing the big picture, there is a difference if you get griefed or go through a heavy loss streak. with "debt" you cant reset your XP bar to zero, or go into the negatives, or lose levels. moreover debt has a cap, there is great leniency for dying while still making players care about not dying. Getting taxed for dying as it is implemented in AoC is far away from getting robbed of your XP by griefers, just because you can find some similarities does not mean these two things are the same.
Adds always on, non consensual PVP Bans players for non consensually PVPing adds system to punish people for non consensually PVPing WHY IS IT EVEN THERE?!
I personally dont even understand this from a design perspective. In absolutely NO reality do the pros outweigh the cons to have pvp enabled at the start of ashes of creation, it is a design no-brainer. A concept that should have been destroyed before ever even implemented by simply future proofing the concept inside a developers mind by imagining how people actually play the game.
asherons call had open pvp from the start. No guards. Game did well and is still hailed as one of the best mmos released. Carebears like you just cant handle pvp.
Asmongold aside, it's the age old issue with streamsniping. It's not "preferential treatment" that some people can't be stalked off-game and abused, it's correcting the imbalance of you're using an unfair advantage to target a specific person and always know where they are. Also, this is an alpha. This is not a game, nothing is fair, you'll die to a bug and you'll die to abusers just as often, people are not on equal standing.
I appreciate the efforts that Stephen is going to in order to counter griefing. It's going to be interesting to see how it actually plays out in the game. There is always a way around any system. Even in this one, when players have 4 max level alts, and probably multiple accounts, stream snipers are going to be able to grief. I commend Intrepid's goal of creating old school open world pvp vibes. The reason why that's old school and fondly remembered is because it's a bygone era. That player base, doesn't exist. Players are different. Technology is different. Streaming wasn't a thing back then. I really do hope that Intrepid figures it out. But they certainly have their work cut out for them in 2024.
My biggest issue is being able to unflag just before you die to get someone corrupted. That's what a bunch of people do. Once you flag and the player you attack flags you shouldnt be able to toggle it off unless one of you dies or you create a far enough distance between each other.
I started Ultima online with open pvp in 97 but we had safe areas in towns/moongates and that game was forced to split the servers to pve and pvp facets due to complaints. I wish them well but it's going to have issues.
There's a lot of negatives in this video for the casual MMO player. If they just want to have PvP players and no one else, this game will die on it's arse very very quickly.
Honestly it’s disgusting to see steven is amazing man he handled it perfectly; I love how he just talks and says it how it is. "I don't care if its asmond or a joe shmo." I respect steven for that answer, good to see
Ok to people who still dont get it... IF you turn on PVP with no choice to turn it off, you will ALWAYS have people doing this. Every other pvp mmo has/had peace mode in the strater zones. It's not about just killing 1 streamer, there will ALWAYS be people doing this. It gives some people a sense of superiority or they just enjoy it. Even with strict penalties, you can have a group of people flag and kill someone while swapping the kill shot so they can spread around Karma/corruption... Just look at BDO, even the Arsha/full pvp server/shard has peace zones. Outside of the peace zone everyone can kill you, which is kinda fun, but towns are always peaceful, otherwise it makes 0 sense...
So what? it's bad? in an mmo game? mmo is about communication, and it doesn't matter if it's friendly or hostile, it's a game about relationships. a gameplay design that requires both sides to turn on some PvP flag for the sake of PvP is terrible, If a player chops down my tree, kills spot mobs, if a group of players kill a world boss that drops legendary items once a week, should I just watch it?
@@schwarzbrecht7624 I fully agree that there should be pvp areas, but in certain areas like towns, starting areas, popular quest routes... it doesnt make a lot of sense, since the only reason you would pvp there is to grief. The way it was shown in the clip, it doesnt make sense. There should be guards that can 1 shot players like in archage and people who kill a lower players should become kill on sight for guards with the same faction as the player killed... There are awesome mechanisms that can make the game nice and prevent griefing, i dont know much about the game but the system shown in the clip is bad and will discourage people from playing. But they will probably change it, or their game will be very niche... which is fine as well, but they probably dont want that
@@Fuz2yman it's obvious that their game is going to be niche. - access to the CBT costs $100 - here you need to be in communication (you cant press the button waiting for the group and in a minute get into a raid dungeon on the mega-hyper boss)
What they did in Archeage is spread guards in certain areas (and all cities) to act as safe zones. If you attack a player near a guard you get pulled and 1 shot by them. So people would seek refuge near them if they didn't want to fight back. Adds to the immersion.
@pvprangergod4024 The immersion came from looking for the guards to protect you. They were not stationary and had a few roaming patterns. You could survive the 1 shot and escape, but it was a rare occasion.
World pvp just doesnt works. Way too many people just remember the old days and get nostalgia, but world pvp was always unfair. Back in mmo early days, one wouldnt mind because we had a lot of free time in our hands and because we didnt know better, but now we do. MMO pvp should always be between groups that want to do pvp. IMO the best way to do it is create a zone, put some incentives in it, and let those who like world pvp go crazy in it. The reason why sometimes you see those places empty is because most people just arent interested in getting ganked.
Recent MMO with a potential system for world pvp is Throne and Liberty where world bosses or world events sometimes spawn as a pvp conflicted zone (there is an ingame schedule you can check for this spawns so you can plan ahead be that to participate or to avoid) and massive dungeons also becoming a pvp zone during ingame night time (for 30min). Makes PVP engagement more spectacle than your random gank a weak person in the wilderness.
Absolutely not, who want to play pvp servers bring so much more exitement, struggle and thrill. I would never play pve over pvp server, been playing mmorpg's since 2000 starting ultimas and dransik.
@@cynthiahembree3957yes, most MMOs are playing boring theme park crap like WoW. There's plenty of those types of MMOs already, they can go and play one of them.
What harm does it do to the game to simply have a PVP Opt-In/Out option? In New World you got extra XP for opting in to PVP so you can incentivise players who either enjoy PVP or are simply prepared to take the risk. Games that focus on PVP seem to have less in the way of actual PVE content to sustain the game.
Because the point of this game is that the world revolves around conflict. Guilds control territories, resources can be limited, and things like bandits are incentivized by the system as a risk vs reward of trading. Also XP gains for opt-in PvP is an awful system. Literally everyone will prefer to just kill one more mob than paint the one-sided target on their back. New World is a shell of what it was originally planning to be. Opt in-opt out PvP is always neutered to the point it might as well not exist. I'd rather the game just not advertise having PvP if it's gonna come down to people needing to be permanently flagged to get PvP, but by being the one to flag you give the entire world the chance to jump you and never the other way around.
Taking away the danger takes away the excitement. And I say this as a mostly 'carebear' conflict adverse player. I was mildly looking forward to New World conflict. I told myself I'd keep PvP on but the reward wasn't worth the risk. I'm liking ashes currently. Corruption is far too much of a penalty for it to be worth even the occasional gank on most situations. Needs to be dialed down a smidge.
All it does is piss off greifers. There’s literally no reason to not have it. Or make a PVE server. They wouldn’t want that either because they know that’s where everyone would go and the greifers would have only themselves to canibalize.
I did warn about this several time but got backlash, whenever there is a possibility to harrass people will do it in so massive numbers that no customer service will be fairly able to handle the customer service tickets
To be fair, finding out there is pvp everywhere just turned me off the game completely. If theres PVE servers i might play, but that looks abusable as fuck.
@@Jovan654321 I just would you to clarify: are really trying to make someone believe AoC open world PVP (free for all, no guards or safe zones) with WoW? The Asmon drama made me reconsider AoC and drop it. So have fun ganking if you like that playstyle.
There is a difference between consentual PvP and enforced PvP. The former works perfectly, just flag yourself and have fun. However, if you don't flag yourself you must not be forced to PvP. That is archaic and besides myself it will cost the game lots of potential players. Just have a look at all the always-PvP MMO out there. What are they all, if they're not WoT-like games? Small and toxic. AoC may have been good, but this kills it for me.
Toxic is fun. You make friends, you make rivals, there's a bunch of politics - alliances, backstabbing, drama, etc. There's a whole other level of game to dive in - interpersonal relationships in a virtual setting. How many bots designed to be beaten in a frictionless, stakeless game can you stomach?
actually, as an avergae player, I encountered a bit of this the first day in, but I havent seen it once since. As far as I can tell, pretty much everyone leaves everyone else alone, unless they have a very good reason not to.
Thanks for showing us this video! Was very excited to play this game a few years ago. Seeing it pop up again now makes me very happy to know the cash grab is pvp only. So thankful i never bought into this crap lol. I'm sure the pv...i mean griefers will love this game though! Welp time to wait for another MMO to come out :P
The game aint a cash grab since the devs actually try making a good game n shiet, the problem is the balacing around pvp being non-existant which would most probably ruin the good aspects of this game.
@@crashthedarklordplays2668 I'd argue charging $$$ to have players playtest your alpha isn't a good look, but I digress. I do agree though that balancing the pvp does create issues. I (personally) don't think forced open world pvp works in mmo's, as it doesn't fulfill true pvp players (not those griefing) desires to have player vs player combat, and it deters pve players as they don't wish to engage or deal with it. PvP in mmo's always worked best when there were specific areas or zones that specifically catered to pvp. This allows devs to balance the pvp in these zones without affecting the rest of the world and game design.
@OwlskiTV tbh for me i consider rpg's and mmo's as a whole to be the shittiest slop to exist since they are just bad open world games to me but im trynna speak with the prespective of someone who would enjoy these typa games.
@@crashthedarklordplays2668 In regards to early access, that's a fair argument. There is both pros and cons to it, and I can't deny that. I personally think *modern* mmo's are poorly done. A lot of the modern ones often miss a key element which made a lot of the older mmo's shine; Taking the large/massive playerbase and utilizing it in more community and world building aspects. Too many new mmo's these days feel like that have a fairly shallow depth/experience to them, and focus too much on combat, rather than fleshing out an engrossing world in which players naturally want to explore and live in.
Exactly!!!! Ever since I watched Lazy Peons video several years showcasing Ashes of Creation. And how detailed and complex this game is i knew then and their that this game would be the "WoW, ESO, GW2" Killer without a shadow of a doubt. At that time, Ashes of Creation did not have a stance on how the game will come out in terms of setting. I had to learn through this video that its an "Open World PVP" shit show I will not be spending a dime on it. I love PVP but when it comes to MMOs PVP its always one sided and gank fests occur. I used to play Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK WoW. Where that term was officially coined lol. Ik how it feels to be ganked over and over again. I can understand, if their was factional PVP like it is within WoW or ESO where you fight the opposite faction as you. But no, this game mandates you PVP with everyone in your server if their good or bad towards yourself. I always preferred PVE to PVP in MMOs anyway, but its a shame with this game because. I do not want to be forced to PVP while doing PVE content. They should be separate completely. I doubt they will ever change their stance, after doing simple digging. They only will have one server.
The people that have a problem with Asmon have their focuses misconstrued. It's the people that give him gold or grief that are the problem. Not him. I was also on during this time. It was frustrating to watch because Ashes has garnered such a supportive community, and then you get the bad eggs that go and ruin the game, the reputation of the community, and the experience for people who are interested or would potentially become interested in Ashes from watching someone else play. An unwritten rule for online games is to leave the real life shit out of it. Everyone who attacked Asmon didn’t do so for anything he's done within the game, it was what they don't like about him outside of the game. The people who tried defending themselves by saying "You made the game like this Steven" think their actions were justified because the game allows pvp 100% of the time. That's like saying because guns in America aren't 100% illegal, that means you can shoot whomever you want. It's such a blatently dumb argument. Glad people like this get banned.
The people that disagree with him don't actually know his osman's opinions because they don't watch his content. Some of these people justify their vitriolic hate to The point where they hate him as much as they think he hates them. When in actuality he couldn't care less and thinks you are entitled to your own opinion It's really crazy and this is a really good example of this: How he's still thinking of other people while still in the middle of being griefed not wanting these grifers to get unfair punishment because of what they're doing to him right that moment. Crazy
I tuned into his stream to tell him not to apologize for or defend the griefers, because all he did was try to showcase a game. I got there and he was literally defending the griefers. I hope he knows he's ALLOWED to be offended sometimes, especially when he's done nothing wrong. But then again, with an audience of tens of thousands watching him live, maybe he isn't.
It's been shown time and again that the majority of MMO players don't like non consensual PvP. There will be a lot of coping, but regardless of the corruption system in 3-6 months the game will be played by a minority.
This is a failure on the designers part. You need a start area that is for new players only, no pvp unless you flag yourself, and no high levels can come in and gank you. If you want help from a friend they need to make another character to join with you. A tutorial that teaches you the game with basic mechanics, lets you explore a bit, gives you a taste of questing, crafting, large and small NPC camps, a dungeon or two with bosses and maybe a physical arena that is free for all turned on. In fact I love the Path of Exiles pre-tutorial single player area before you are dropped into the first chapter bigger tutorial area with the rest of the starting players (I think Tera Online did this too). Albion Online has a GREAT system with tiered zones but it can be annoying with aggressive farmers in the green zones. Warhammer Online has an even better system in my opinion but I get what they are trying to do here. I used to play alot of Mortal Online and you need open world pvp for resource control. You just HAVE to have a non pvp starting area to give people a chance. Proof is obvious in this video. Yes its a pvp game but most online games have a anti- stream snipe policy.
They are designing this with the customers. That is what the Agile system is all about. Now they know this is something they need in place. Everyone can be wise after the event and say they knew it would happen, but they need to know for sure. I see a lot of people logging in who clearly haven't even tried to read what they are trying to do in Ashes. Global chat is full of people complaining about things missing that are slated for phase3. I'm absolutely loving it. I like that crafting is difficult. I love that it takes days to get mining to level 5. And there is hardly any content yet. It was a bad time to get Asmongold involved. He has his own agenda and it is a time we should be focusing on the game, not him. And the game is getting better and better every day. Confident we can hit the date for phase2.
there will be griefing at every boss, in every dungeon, You will be deep in a major battle, and you'll get griefed and laughed at as they take out your healer, or one shot you when you are low on health. Its like these devs have never played an mmo before.
I'm hyped for this game. It is indeed as you said, Asmongold being target inevitably will lead to less players in the game (because its obvious that he has a huge reach and players would know the game through his videos). And is a great dilemma between "not wanting to give him preferential treatment" and "wanting him to have a normal experience". I don't know the solution, I think that no one knows. Perhaps this is an unwinnable situation. I think that what we will get from Asmon is a review based on his off-stream experience with the game.
Its not preferential treatment, the dude was not being ganked for any resource, farming spot or anything, he was being ganked for being The Baldy. Griefing 101.
After logging off, he spent more time Just Chatting than he had spent logged into the game trying to explain to his chat that they shouldn't judge the game based on what they had just watched him go through. People in global chat were literally saying "we need to grief him off the server because he ruins everything he touches." I was one voice in the chorus of voices trying to explain that THAT TAKE is what ruins everything Asmon touches, and that the man himself has nothing to do with it. He just tried to play a video game and show it off to his audience. Random assholes were what made his time there seem toxic. Afterwards, Asmon spent time he didn't need to trying to do damage control, even basically DEFENDING the griefers' behavior. On the flipside, I'll bet money those selfsame griefers will not only pop up on Reddit playing the victim, but they'll blame Asmon.
@@pazPAPASIn general streamers do actually ruin servers that they play on simply because their large audience of drones only play the game because their streamers play as well, and once the initial hype train is over you are left with an empty server. Not to mentione they completely disrupt economy, social dynamics, pvp and so on.
@@Jovan654321dude this is the second completely insane stupid comment I've read from you.... You're a selfish, psycho gamer. I can tell straight up. Your logic is flawd but you seem like you think you know what you're talking about. You're worried about server economy.... The only people who do that are gold sellers and RMTers. Be worried if the game is fun.
I love everything about this game except for the one HUGE mistake of open world pvp. There’s a reason why nobody plays open world pvp servers/mmos when you compare it to pve
This is a very invalid opinion. Nearly half the systems in this game are tied to PvP, it doesn't work without it. There are like 50 other mmos you can play that suit you, I would consider playing one of those. We don't need another game that servers the PVE crowd at all corners. If you've been following this games development, you would know that PvP is one of the cores and its not gonna change.
@@Ghostzapper no, it is invalid. You losers always come into pvp games, pretending you want to pvp, then cry cry cry trying to get it removed and always make the statement "the pve players are the ones who pay for everything, we're the most important" You should go elsewhere because everything you want is catered to you in some other mmo.
This is absolutely false, if you look at older world of warcraft such as burning crusade there is double amount of PVP servers over PVE. In games where you lose no gear when someone kills you the corpseganking is only good deathpenalty.
The copium in that guy is seriously cringe. 1. "griefing cant happen because punishment" 2. Asmon gets griefed 3. Devs adds more punishment 4. Repeat step 1 Bruhhh
This is definitely not normal in game behavior, no normal player is going to have 30+ people be followed around and griefed for the whole time they play it’s just to keep gameplay normal and in my opinion I think there should definitely be a safe zone for the starter area even if that’s the only safe zone which would be fine as this is going to be a pvp based game
You say this, but I have played WoW since 2004. Death balls, gank squads, finding dead zones in places like ratchet, gadgetzan, etc. this is normal in an MMO. Yes, the degree of 30+ people may be noteworthy and unique. But people engage in this behavior all. The. Time. I can flash back to an uncountable number of times on WoW in which I had to deal with campers
@ yes you may occasionally encounter things like that happening but there is a vast difference in wow with pvp being limited and it isn’t happening the entire time you play from the time you spawn in for the first time until you get off the game, there’s nothing wrong with ganks and such happening but if it is such a scenario where half the server is following one player around this isn’t natural gameplay and clearly isn’t an intended design
I've been warning the devs and community for months that forced PvP will ruin the game. Asmondgold getting greifed is the first step to killing the game. Remove it, it's crap.
Open world PvP will always be toxic and in best case a chaotic zerg - likely with a lot of lag, so it's more ridiculous than anything else. When you don't lose anything, that's something you may still laugh about. But when you even just lose XP, that's stealing life time. The time you invested to get that XP is now just made worthless. For such things to work you need ironclad borders. Even the corruption system won't be enough. The thing is: a system powerful enough to get rid of griefing will likely just kill open world PvP all together. In the end the only halfway working way is to limit it by choice and/or area. So only those who want to PvP or go into areas which are seen as dangerous are taking part in it, so you can avoid it.
Delusional take. Asmongold is the only one who's getting hard greifed at the moment, that's gonna happen unless he gets a guild and doesn't try and play casually. The corruption atm makes it so fuckin punishing that no one who's not asmongold is just getting hard greifed. You die all the time in ashes and it takes 10 min to work off the exp debt. Losing the gear + being killable by all players + needing to grind off has will deter any max level on full realase. Asmongold isn't the rules he's the 50,000-1 acception
@@mazmundiegriefing is why I stopped playing archeage. I jumped into the game late in its life cycle so I didn’t think it was gonna be a problem. Was on my own doing quests and like 5 dudes just kept ganking me over and over again. I realized I wasn’t having fun and was instead wasting my time so I just uninstalled and decided to play something else.
@peterlopez2388 the punishment in ashes for going corrupt is so large that in the endgame of ashes it would equate to losing days of progress just to kill one person, as of current ashes that I'm playing 12 hours a day on the weekend days I'm currently seeing about 3 corrupted people a day, this is in early level testing phase with an upcoming wipe. I've heard people that have played that and other flagging games saying the punishment so far in ashes is exponentially worse. You may be right, but because of how it's currently tuned I don't think it will be the case
@@mazmundie so much effort put into punishing people for the PVP when you could just make it so players flag for it. Even then it still doesn’t dissuade people. So much for the corruption system.
@peterlopez2388 well the point of the game is resources are finite so if you can't control them then someone else will, it's not a game where pvp is tacked on. I've followed this game deeply over the last 4 years and all the systems are intertwined.
20 years ago I was in the beta for a niche game called Thread Space Hyperbol. Among the testers were some SA Goons who were friends with one of the devs. Being a player if the game since it's early conception myself, I was good enough at it to hold them back. But when the game finally launched, those players who had gotten incredibly good and who knew the perfect, cheap load outs, they relentlessly destroyed all the new players who had just bought the game on release. I don't think it lasted a week before the servers were empty.
I have been tester from the start , and I have to stay griefing low levels is very rare in Ashes, none ever attacked me to grief me , and I don't know anyone who got attacked and got bullied yet I am a part of massive guild that had to be split in two to accommodate everyone, true I was literary destroyed trying to get my caravan from A to B but that was different , that is a part of the game and expected, that why driving caravan is so nerve wracking, you literarily are the flag shouting come attack me and take my goods! and yes if you are lucky and do caravan in non-peak times and chose backward path where few players go you will make it!
@@Berndrwas looking forward to this game. I didnt go to this test because i dont feel the need to pay to quality test a game. Now after seeing what happened to baldy, I realised older and no lifers will always have the tool to screw me over and I cant do anything to prevent that. If someone doesnt like me, they can just bully me into quitting the game since I cant do anything. I thought all time pvp is also an exciting concept but I saw how abusive the players are and how easy it is to abuse.
Non-Consensual PVP = Griefing. The only 2 players that want it are griefers and those who see themselves as saviors that imagine themselves saving someone from getting griefed. And griefing has to be taking place in order for both to exist.
It's very obvious that Steven intends for the whole non-consensual pvp mechanic to be something that's immersive and makes sense in the confines of the game, but Steven also forgot about the kind of idiots that MMO's with perma-flagged pvp attracts. It doesn't matter how harsh the punishment is for the one doing the griefing, they will find ways to keep going it and never stopping. This will 100% make it so that this game will never be as populated as other MMO's, like Asmon said. If they are content with that then, go ham.
It might not be preferencial treatment but its a kind of special treatment no one else will ever receive, if a group of people decide they want to make the game hell for another person there won't be any GM involvement (see the Piratesoftware controversy) and I am fine with that but I don't think that the double-edged sword of being an influencer should mean the man receives any sort of free pass or whatever if he managed to grow a community that hates him so much they kill him on sight, or one that thinks this is just a "haha funny" thing and he will be fine with it then seems like his problem
@@Bananenbauer123 you could kill or farm the bots while they are out there, but if there is level protection until, let say, level 5 (and the bot detection is shit), you can't get rid of the bots in any way and they ruin the non-combat based economy. simple as that
@@ausoleil8269 i mean yea prob but atleast u could fight back then. im not talking about level 10 or so. maybe 10-20 levels from max or something like that.
A game where every where pvp is on WILL be ,any game that did this showed this, a GANK and GRIEF-Fest. Do they think they are special ? It wil be that way because humans are shitty without rules. But hey maybe they disprove a couple of thousend of years of human history and decades of game-history, maybe they are the chosen one OR it will not work and they will have PVP only for those that want that. That game suffers from "i know it better"-syndrom.
Not my type of game but can't you implement a way for players to make their own home base kinda like rust? You can limit base size, base capabilities, base location, base raidability etc all to your liking
02:32 that’s all anyone needs to see and to be said by another player that’ll drive most players away from trying your game. They should be banned to protect the product and the community. These pkers don’t stay long in the community before they move on to the next thing. However by the time they do move on the player base has shrunk to much where it can’t support the game or no one is playing the game. Now there are games that survived from these griefers. For example RuneScape and Warcraft. This is mainly due to them being the only mmo of their time. They also now have a sizable community that are loyal to the game. New games like this aren’t going to survive due to their being more choices in the mmo genre.
As a random dude that just happens to come across this video I can just say this doesn't appeal to me at all. Logging in to just chill and do some quests just to have 5 random dudes kill and loot me out of nowhere is not my definition of fun especially in a MMO. It sure sounds like fun reading about those kinds of MMOs in novels and manga but when that actually happens to you well most of the time you just quit and play something else. Having PvP always on is legit something that might prevent me and my friends from playing this as we feels we're just not sweaty enough for these games now that were in our mid 30s and ironically I'm the one always pushing for PvP games in my group such as Rust or Tarkov but even I don't see the appeal of this in an MMO.
the corruption system will solve nothing in terms of griefing. a higher level character in white gear is still going to stomp lower level characters, so the griefer meta will be to make a high level alt with trash gear so nothing is at risk. negative karma alts have been used to subvert PK pentalties for decades. even with higher level characters, you lose less materials if you retaliate before you die, so most ganks will count as "consensual pvp". the fact is that world pvp has never been done well and will never be done well. i get that they're going for an oldschool partial loot pvp system, but it's just always going to be a hellhole no matter what measures you take to mitigate it. there will be megaguilds who lock down entire raid zones, there will be max level alts with replaceable gear running around one-shotting noobs, and there will be nothing anyone can do to stop it.
I was going to try and give a reasoned response to this, but you literally said "world pvp has never been done well and will never be done well," and I just... Yeah, no, you're right. Nothing has ever been done perfectly so we should all just give up and bomb ourselves into nuclear winter. That'll fix everything. o_o There are less offensive ways to say "I don't like PvP." Maybe just don't play the game.
Bruh, Asmon needs to use his celebrity to have a gank squad that follows him around. Help him gear up and level, he cannot have a normal experience because he isn't a normal gamer; he has celebrity. It sounds kind of lame but that is the nature of his position.
I think you're the only person that finally get it in this whole comment section this could've happened anywhere having a safe starter area wouldn't have solved anything
@@onyx4469 It could have, and it'd still be against ToS, mass griefing is harassment according to them, no corruption at that point, just a warning and then a ban. Stevens repeated this years ago. Freak incident and at some point people will get the message. You can grief and get corruption, but don't go thinking you're going to be allowed to non stop grief the same person by yourself or with a group, and if you do, well then enjoy your ban.
@@Nyce-Gaming PirateSoftware Doesn't have this problem because he does not foster that kind of crowd! You reap what you sow, He did this to him self with multiple choices made over a period of time . . . I do not advocate harming anyone! But when one provokes the public eventually " Like Prank TH-camrs " They get what's coming to them.
this sets a precedent, i will not be playing a game where i can't leave the starting zone without being killed by a loser who has nothing better in his life than spawn camp lvl1's
@@MrAngryMonkey100 That's still PvP, it means player vs player, asmongold is a player getting attacked by players. Whether it's stream sniping, griefing, harassment, it's still PvP at the end of the day. It may not be what they intended for the PvP to be like, but this was bound to happen where PvP is forced. Same thing would happen with safe zones, people will just wait outside the safe zone and punish players for trying to leave, seen that plenty of times in MMOs.
What I found strange is that not a single Mayer in any of the Nodes has decided to build a Market, Market is an Auction house for players to trade, so unless the Mayer of the node city build one none can trade at all, they build various workshops, yet we can't exchange /sell /buy resources and crafts anywhere but at the basic NPC vendor !
you'll end up on a dead server that way. after the release hype dies down, its usually the streamer servers that are the only ones with a decent sized population
Yea its a gankbox why can you even grief in the starter area? Game is gonna die within a year if they dont fix that shit, it shouldn't be actionable because it shouldn't be in the damn game
What Steven said about not giving Asmon preferential treatment is only partially true. I think he is being truthful in all he says about griefing not being welcome at about 7:12 - I think he believes those things and those statements are likely their goals. But the fact of the matter is that it was only probably noticed and acted on at all because it was a high-profile player. If s random community member was getting killed repeatedly and was complaining in global about it, the response probably would have been something like "that is what the corruption system is there for" and that they would review data and make tweaks as needed. I understand why they acted swiftly on Asmon getting griefed, but it's disingenuous to say that he didn't get preferential treatment.
@@TheDizzled32I think the preferential treatment argument is irrelevant. A 'celebrity' DOES get preferential treatment. Analogy wise... It's like a movie star having fans outside their hotel. People are giving them attention, so the hotel has to compensate. You could blame the hotel for hiring more security/limo for the celebrity, or the fans. But it's really neithers fault, just an aspect of being a celebrity.
Isn't griefing literally the point of non-consensual pvp? Rather than implementing some strange system that punishes people for pvp in an open pvp game.... why not just let people toggle pvp on and off? Seems to be needlessly complex to solve a problem that everyone else has already solved with a simple toggle.
I'm sad that this was Asmon's beginning experience. Seeing his smile fade should not be how anyone experiences Verra for the first time. Hopefully, he can get back on the horse and try again.
@@zometthecomet he was talking about murderers and people who want to do terrorism, sure he didn't clarify which are the bad ones but you hating him makes you evil and the wrong one.
I hate to say this. I really think the developers thought their players were better than this. That is the reason they hadn't implemented a lot of protections. They didn't think they would need too, especially in an Alpha where people played a decent amount of money to be there. They though that just the buy in would be enough to sort out bad actors. Unfortunately they were wrong. I wish they were right, but people are not always nice.
Do streamers deserve special privilege? Steamers do not deserve special privilege, however it does have benefits for marketing of the game. Where's the line between PvP and griefing? The line between PVP and griefing is something that defined by the developer through game design. Should the Stream Snipers be banned? Stream snippers should not be banned, the only case where it should be banned if it's in a competitive situation. Why has there been so much negative feedback on the new player experience and how should PvP be limited in the starter zone? Negative feedback comes from a bad player experience or design. The limitation of PVP in starter zone is a problem that was solved long ago... you just don't allow it. Drama with Asmongold It's part of his own community that fosters this type of behavior. I've watched countless of other streamers and everyone else had a way better experience. Creative Director Steven Sharif sat down with PirateSoftware Interview had a weird vibe. Good intention from both parties.
I used to be a red player in BDO long before valencia was a thing, penalties mattered little, there's ways to get around it (or you just suck it up) and the benefits are huge when competing for farming spots. Back then I would just show up and kill everyone on sight, holding the spot for my guildies. As long as a limited amount of ressources is shared between players, karma/corruption systems will always lead to abuses. If the system is too harsh people abuse the protection offered by the system to troll, if the system is too lenient the game just turns into a warzone. The idea that corruption can be balanced is a pipedream, you either go full pvp or no pvp at all.
Steven said it very well. Find another community. I personally think he should have started after a wipe and not stream until he’s level 10 or so. It’s not fair but that could have helped.
I dont think the issue is him being PvPed. Its him being stream sniped. I have not read the ahses tos but im sure it looks like any other mmo where that breaks tos if not im sure it will be added soon
@diggles27 that is stream sniping dummy Even ignoring stream sniping Asmon was being griefed, which does in fact break the TOS of Ashes. If you yourself are a griefer I hope you get perma banned just like I hope those that griefed Asmon are perma banned even for the full release. The Ashes community doesn't want griefers and stream snipers
@@diggles27 And what you just described is griefing, which is a ToS violation in every MMO. If you're dumb enough to break the rules for no reason, you deserve commensurate punishment.
if you ask me i think that at least some of the people that griefed asmon were the same type of people who are ddosing the game every weekend or who are in general salty af that people are enjoying the game
Love him or hate him he is simply someone with a large geeky (if not entirely toxic) following. Him showing evidence of the game being good (because it is) will be very good for the community. Steven has been excited by admin holds attention on ashes for years. He was looking forward to that stream. It makes sense to suspend. Ban seems harsh but they knew what they were doing and intrepid has been clear actionable offenses will be met with a firm hand in order to make boundaries clear.
Nah it's not Harsh to ban. It's 2024 Anyone with the ability to get into Alpha II (i.e. earn money) should have some idea how Marketing works and how important it is. Their momentary "fun" was literally taking marketing dollars from the devs. Those players should have been sued for that, not just banned. stop being a snowflake and start thinking about business. No excuse for not knowing how business works in 2024. get out.
@@craigcj5953sued in a video game lol stfu go touch some grass game looked like ass either way. Bunch of streamers grinding mobs with no direction. Alpha for multiple years cheek ass game
@@craigcj5953 “SEEMS harsh BUT” I think I ended my comment on the same page as you and still got called a snowflake and told to leave for not “knowing how business works in 2024.” Who’s the triggered snowflake here? 😂
as a developer , how can someone who developed this game , with such pvp systems and open world pvp , didn't expect this ? I am sorry but I am talking about streamer only , normal guilds and players , they will dominate the server and control who spawns and who don't spawn lol , people these days abuse too much in the game systems , I hope they really limite pvp and make complete safe zones
Yup I’m no game dev but I saw this coming. Some people just like to make others mad. It was naive to think this wouldn’t happen. I hope the team learns from this
I don't want to play on a server with a big streamer. It's cringe and unimmersive. Seeing all their simps follow them around, making everything trivial, and bending the server to their will. I'll just wait a month after release and then avoid all servers with streamers.
They need to learn from albion online. In that game there are blue zones: Towns and starting zones where PVP is disabled. Yellow zones: Flag pvp (No gear loss when dying). Red zones: Flag pvp full loot, you lose all your gear. Black zones: No flagging, no rules. Everyone PVPs. This flag system is just stupid.
Asmongold is huge, he can bring a lot of interest to the game. Hate him or love him, he can only BENEFIT ashes in the long run. I want this to be the next MASSIVE mmo, and everything I've seen during A2 leads me to believe it can be. To that end we gotta let these big content creators delve into the game, I'm 100% positive pirate software has been a huge PLUS to the game. For the long term health of the game guys, let them hit level 10 first xD
UPDATE. 2 days after this video: “To help new characters, we’ve added an opt-in to PvP safety option.
This is available to non-combatants that are level 5 or lower, in the starting areas”
Comment your thoughts and debate below. I will read through these in stream.
(Also. Surely it wasn’t an editing error. I said it twice for emphasis 😏)
AOC VoV Discord: discord.gg/tNHaDmqgTz
You are right, Asmongold does deserve to experience the game like a normal person. And he can: by playing the game off stream, like a normal person.
Ohh yes... Snowflakes are making a PvP game in 2024 and then when other snowflakes are logging in to get killed, BUT they are a streamer they get special treatment, which starts the avalanche of making the game totally PvE... How is making the starting zone a "PvP" suppression zone going to help? I can literally wait you outside that zone as a max level and just start a fight the moment you try to leave that... Btw anyone actually read 5:25 ? They already ruined PvP with that.... what the f is even the point of PvP, if only you lose on it? Just the movespeed decrease in self would be enough to lose easily and let me guess that if you kill a corrupted player you don't even get corrupted at all... This is the usual r******d design of so called """""PVP""""" games these days. Are you corrupted? Get ganged 10v1 any time. When this game will finally release you will not even lose XP on death... Always the same crap... PvP is already pointless and they will just keep making it even more pointless... Yeah i so want to do open world PvP in a game where i drop my gear on death... 10/10 awesome design. You are either EQUAL with everyone... no matter who is that... or you are not. This is clearly a game with 0 equality, 5:25 makes that clear. Btw tell me any time the benefit of doing PvP as a PK, i'm interested... and i bet there is literally non. Wtf call this crap a PvP game then?
@@lordcarl3094There is decent amount of PvP going on and I don't think I've seen a single corrupt player so far. You don't get corrupt for PvPing. You go corrupt for killing someone who doesn't fight back.
@@Monunator100,000,000,000,000,000% this.
even if there is a corruption system, because they are killing him at level 1 that means they can just make a new character kill him then just delete and make a new character, it's a complete bypass of the corruption system, I'f i were them i would disable world pvp below level 4.
If you can die in the starter zone, this game will die in 20mins after launch
Yup. Dumb af game design. It will die off before it even releases. Just being able to attack non flagged people is crazy especially in STARTER zones.
Its already dead, a 10 minute gankfest is all I needed to know. I have no interest in this now, it looked like a cool game too but all those griefers can have it and play the game alone.
@@smellykat6481 Relax, a lot of features have not been implemented yet and this is in alpha. It's a LITERAL testing ground and this situation shows that the testing ground works.
@@smellykat6481 It's just asmond gold that got this treatment. I've been playing for 3 weeks now, including the pre-alpha tests, and the only time I ever saw people actually go red was just before the wipe. I have currently seen some max level players running around after storing their gear and killing people which i think is an issue that needs to get addressed, but so far the pvp in this game feels fine.
@@EdenGardee perception is reality and the perception is now that its going to be like this. doesnt matter, this is the new reality.
that is quite literally a server notification saying "leave the bald one alone" LMAO
you can have custom strings in a notification.
@@rattlehead999 not relavent to what joshuaadkins9820 said GMs were telling the other players who were harassing Asmondgold to back off and let him play...and stupid sub room temp IQ players were ignoring it.They Fed around and they found out...players need to be held accountable for there actions...
@@MrAngryMonkey100 My point is that they can write whatever they want.
I saw the griefing of the Bald One LIVE and it def made me Not want to play the game.
Especially the XP-loss is a no go, i will not invest my time just to have my progress removed.
@@MrAngryMonkey100 Honestly some people dont even see banners cause the are so common but rarely ever have anything of subsatance or they dont provide any benefit. Secondly Thats abuse of power. The video is right on why the devs would do it but the underlying motivation doesnt make it not preferential treatment.
Why can people PVP in the STARTER ZONE??? There should be no PVP in the starter zone regardless if some one is flagged or not. In all PVP games there has to be some safe zones in specific areas. The starter zone being one of those areas...
@@driftaaa agreed. They are working on getting this implemented ASAP. I’m hoping it’s soon cause it can cause a negative experience if griefers are around. Sad that this is needed even in an alpha
Agree, but I think this kind of event will help Intrepid grow and learn better to improve the game and it's experience for players.
agreed but I dont think it would help in this case. Ppl will just wait and grief him the second he leaves the starter area.
Steven alluded to the reason on PirateSoftware's stream: he was HOPING that all the people who were invested enough in the game's future to spend $120 for access to alpha builds of it, who were logging in to a buggy, incomplete version of the game that was as ugly and broken as it will ever be, who had signed up to submit bug reports to try and make sure the game would launch in as complete a state as possible
he was HOPING that those people might have the basic human decency and common fucking sense to not actively grief new players, brag about it in game chat, and respond to GMs saying "hey, stop griefing" with comments like "fuck off."
This SHOULD have been a reasonable expectation. Instead, he had to permaban people, and I hope they're blacklisted to boot. Even after starter zones have PvP protection in place, as someone who played old school world PvP MMOs for years, the kinds of people who were featured in purple in this video don't deserve a spot.
Anyone who genuinely needs to have the difference between PvP and griefing explained to them after being told what each term means doesn't belong in games with PvP.
I honestly don't think that's necessary out of all streamers/people this only happened to asmon this was an isolated incident not to mention the city guards seem to have done a good job at killing most of the players that were flagging this is a streamer problem not a game problem I think next time asmon tries to play he should have contingencies while on stream like having many of his fans/ friends guarding him with some look outs a bit distant from him to warn them of an approaching player ahead of time stream sniping is always an issue with open world pvp games
EDIT: nvm I saw it was a cleric killing those guys they should make city guards kill flagged/corrupt players in starting area
Griefing low level players is one of the fastest ways to kill a game. I am all for open world pvp/pk but killing newbie players at starting area is moronic.
This only happens because he is a streamer and they are willing to pay the corruption price for doing it. You would never see this otherwise, corruption is too punishing, specially if you kill someone with a lot less level than you.
Safe zones was intended to be added in phase 2 (december), but due to this, they're hastening the process and adding it for this coming weekend.
@@mubris9705 doesn't change the fact for it being stupid, literally givin away vibe tht it will happen to anyone. ur avg andy will not try to think oh its bcs he is a streamer, he sees newb being ganked on oh well guess i am out.
you clearly dont play pvp, when people gank you get stronger if that doesnt help for some reason get your buddies and grave camp them , if enough people do this no one would mess with you, if you say that only just started the game theres alot of solutions to this problem so it doesnt happen right off the bat.
Yeah buf if you try to base your game design on what some huge streamer's audience perception is gonna be, you are gonna be handcuffed for so many things.
This will not be the only issue he will run into. Every caravan he'll run it will turn into a 500v500 battle, the castle he'll probably own will get sieged every month, the node he'll be mayor of same thing...
Devs can't tailor the game for his extremely unique experience, and even Asmongold agrees with me on this.
Sadly it's posible that it's not a game that big streamers can stream.
Thor from Pirate Software got stream sniped as well. Some people are just plain jealous of anyone that gets more attention then them, even though they worked hard for their audience.
In Thor's case they waited until he was filling in a bug report to gank him so he couldn't fight back, he then called in his guild and put their guild on KOS. This guild then proceeded to spam the GMs in an attempt to get him banned resulting in Thor upgrading the KOS order to KOS IN PERPETUITY (aka permanent KOS) for engaging in out of game tactics.
it's funny seeing this.
what's this going to accomplish exactly? either thor is going to fail because the other guild is bigger or has better players and they're forced to quit the game because the other guild has marked them with KoS, or the exact same will happen but the other way around.
either way you're left with more and more people quitting the game because of bad game design.
Why in the love of god no one thought about implementing eve online security system to mmorpgs?
Full pvp everywhere, but
No security - caves, dungeons, high end locations. Kill everyone and everything. Maybe add some pvp and pk lowless factions and towns
Low security - few roaming adventurer guards, few guards in settlements, outposts. Guards are killable with +2 party. No pk jail.
Medium security - villages, small cities and outskirts. Roaming patrols, more guards in cities and towns. Roaming Guards are killable with a party of 6+. If you pk and caught - jail with medium time.
High security - main towns and cities, capitals. Huge roaming patrols, guard towers, huge ammoung of guards in towns.
Killable guards with raid party of 30+. If you pk - you are sent to jail for a long time.
Max security - starting location and outskirts. Insane ammount of very powerfull guards. If you pk here your character is banned from high and medium locations, guards will attack on sight. Every npc in high and med sec loca will be hostile, no trade, no quests. (Add some secret quests for lowless chars for fun) Very long duration on this status, like a week irl.
Ye people that engage in player killing shouldn't have an easy way to clean it, they should be relegated to their own cities and have to try really hard to clean the corruption.
This system would be perfect
Honestly this would be awesome
honestly they can just steal the system from L2 - free pvp everywhere (except safe zones like towns) - if you're flagged and you kill someone who is not flagged you become a PK character - you have karma which is reduced either by dying or receiving EXP from mobs - the more unflagged people you kill the faster you gain karma points - on top of that, when you're a PK character everyone can attack you without being flagged - add to this possibility to drop items when you're dying as PK
@smh- they already have that flagging system. And I think there should be outlaw towns in the ragged edges of developed areas. A more eve like system would be better.
This did great harm to a chance of anyone on the fence about buying this game.
Hope the small chuckle was worth it.
Typical mmo player brain rot.
Lol didnt do that to me. I bought alpha key after this happened. They just trolled asmon and then they fixed this. Its rlly not that big a deal lol
There's absolutely no reason for pvp to be enabled in a starting zone
PVP is not something they can turn on/off in just a part of the map. They have to edit the base code to make it even possible.
Edit: to clarify for you low IQs that keep replying to me, I'm am not saying it is hard or anything to disable pvp at starter zone, I am only saying it was not something they had written the code to do. Yes having PVP in some places but not others does need extra code that they did not see the need for.
It's an alpha; it's here to test systems; it's fine. PvP is on in the starting zone. I've leveled four characters to around level 9-10 and have only encountered consensual PvP. It's really not Ashes' problem that Asmongold is a big streamer with a weird community.
@@Thorgon-Cross false
You're stupid, PVP is the best aspect of MMO
@@basilias_Ligyron if they wanna make money its a big issue lol
yeah, im not gonna be playing this... Ive experience this in several games years ago... download a game start playing, got gank as soon as I leave safe zone, died couple times and uninstall the game...
getting killed out of nowhere is not fun in any context and this game will remain a niche pvp game as it is design to be
I have a question, what exactly did you hate?
The fact that you were getting killed by players who are ten levels above you and you can't do anything against them?
Or the fact that you were just getting killed?
@@schwarzbrecht7624 Can't speak for OP (ofcourse), but I have similar feelings as they do when it comes to these sorts of things.
To answer your question; For me, it's mainly the first point. I (and I'm sure many others) like to feel like they're making progress in the games they play. When mmo's have open world pvp (especially forced and early on) it deters a lot of players who primarily focus on pve (like myself).
The unfortunate truth is place mostly anyone new to a game into an unfair situation that they cannot win (ie. cannot fight off much stronger players), and it'll naturally deter them from wanting to engage with the rest of the game and see what it has to offer.
------------------
This is why they say early game first impressions are very important, as they're the catalyst that makes that player decide if the game peaks their interest or if it isn't for them.
I'm not interested in any mmo that forces me into a system i hate and then penalizes me by wasting my time and rewards the jerk by validating them with killing my character. Never have never will play or invest in an open world pvp game with no pve only servers. I don't care how stale the market is, my time is valuable and i won't waste it in a game that validates people trying to ruin the small amount of escapism i get.
The really stupid thing is that this alpha is pay to play, why would you try to harm the success of the game?? Ban those idiots for life imo
@@pvprangergod4024 if u zerg someone who cant really fight back in a game thats not really about mechanical skill you're not a pvp player. you're one of those pve players cosplaying as someone who likes pvp
Yes making the game look shit for the 50,000 people watching asmon is hurting the game
@@pvprangergod4024 just stop cosplaying. i can tell u cant pvp for shit
@@pvprangergod4024 If you can't understand the distinction between real pvp and this sht, you might be one of these cringelord pvper mentionned. Another random hater trying to mess with ppl instead to move on and do something else
@@pvprangergod4024Never play games again. you have no idea how Marketaing works, or how customers come into your company (if you work) to give you money in the first place. Go dig ditches outside somewhere.
The corruption system is fine as a disincentive, what isn't is having an EXP loss inflicted from non-consensual PVP as that punishes the player over and above the annoyance of being killed.
You dont lose XP, instead you keep what XP you have, but instead to keep leveling up you must fill a second XP bar (About 4% of a 100%) before the XP you gain keeps adding to your main XP bar.
according to piratesoftware its not a lot, at level 10 the death penalty is about a single 3-star mob worth of XP. There is also a cap on how much debt can be accrued.
@XxBearZeusxX I'm aware of that but you are still losing experience only from what you will get rather than what you had.
Agree 100% XP loss should only happen if you die from PVE. Not from being ganked. This is just MMO 101.
Ya, you cant be punishing the player attacked. Certainly shouldn’t punish them more if they defend themselves. Why am i getting corrupted for not just standing there and taking it?
@@XxBearZeusxX That's still xp loss just in a different way dude, stop it. If it's taking you longer to level, whether you are losing it direct, or forced to earn more than you otherwise would have you are incurring an xp penalty. Yours is a semantic argument.
They definitely need a PVP-immune in the small starter area
Wouldn't help. As morons will follow him out of it and then same shit
Yes I believe there should be safe zones where you can't PvP unless you have a bounty for that person. I also feel like PvP should be shut off until level 5 at least.
PvP safe spawn areas... To prevent spawn camping pk'rs
steven said on piratesoftware stream today that in phase 2 and 3 we will see those systems come on
@@blueknight8709there just needs to be a level gap in what you can kill. Example a level 50 can’t attack a level 13. That’s just not fair.
Perma ban deserved, some people will say its preferental treatment, but its only becasue the griefing is easily visible on stream when its recorded and broadcasted.
Simple, the troglodyte (asmon) can just play off stream. He's a public figure, he's infamous/famous its gonna happen. The fact he hasn't comprehended this in the years he's been a multimillionaire streamer shows you his IQ is low.
I say permaban Asmongold. Streamer ruin every community they come into.
@@Wandering_Chemist literal brain rot take
@ **based
@@Wandering_Chemist bro go pvp in real pvp games. oh wait you suck at it thats why.
Need to make a self-sufficient starting zone without pvp, where you will be taught combat, professions, a caravan in some form, and then released into the open world
I think a starter level protection is an obvious choice. Cannot target, or be targeted for pvp until lvl 10. If anyone knows the game Tibia, I think it's mirrored a lot by AoC's corruption system, and it has a starter zone up to lvl 8 (last time I played years ago) where you can't pvp at all.
Starter level protection wont work, because people will just use lowlvl characters to spy and grief in other ways, since they can't be killed. What instead needs to be done is starter zone protection.
@@RomtimBS maybe follow runescape model no pvp area and pvp area
@@RomtimBS idk why even bother with these crazy workarounds. i'm a pvp-first player for 2 decades now and i can confidently say world pvp sucks.
Without a doubt there are is a group of people inside the AoC community who dont want Asmon playing. They don't want Pirate software starting his mega guild, they don't want other people playing the game in the manor they would like it played. This is one of these situations where the AoC community are their own worst enemies. Imagine the arrogance of trying to shutdown or silence people wanting to play the game in the way they want!
Such a simple solution for them too... play on a different server. All the streamers are on the same server, very very easy to avoid them or their affect on the server by just playing on one of the other servers.
Typical lefttars behaivior
They're idiots because big streamers playing is free advertising and more funds for development
You give them far, FAR too much credit. From my experience they are often mentally handicapped or just kids, imagine monkey with a stick that does not get smacked back.. It's extremely primitive behavior.
I’ll say what I’ve said a few times. For now I think the AoC community is doing things that will hurt the game down the road. If people don’t get their act together we may be cooked
I remember watching a part of that stream, honestly the first thing that came to my mind after seeing Asmongold get killed in the starting area was "wow this game looks like trash" and then any thoughts of trying it myself evaporated. Non-consensual pvp is just a bad idea for any game, the only types of players it attracts are griefers who's only goal is to make other people have a bad time, and the only kinds of fights those kinds of people want are one-sided ones.
I disagree, if a game is made with open PvP in mind it's alright but there should be non-pvp or optional pvp servers for people like you who would prefer pve and Charlove.
Agreed, i played too many MMO's with open world PVP while they always start out good the PVP always devolves as players get board waiting for new content.
It's not preferential treatment but a sensible treatment.
@@pvprangergod4024I don't really understand what you're arguing for here. Are you for or against ganking, or what?
@@allthatishere hes not old enough to be online lol
@@pvprangergod4024why are you even here?
@@pvprangergod4024 they banned a greifer good. For someone with pvp in your name you sure talk like a little pve bitch
@pvprangergod4024 are you 12?
As a follow up, the corruption system doesn't do anything in a coordinated attempt at ganing. Get to 10 people to kill 1 person 1 time each. That person loses EXP 10 times and the individuals get 1 count of corruption. Double horse shit.
or, play in a group of 10 and have 2-3 people be the PK'ers and the rest are support healing the people tagged with corruption and protecting them from attackers.
there's no easy way to solve this either. you could force sharing corruption with all players in a group, but then you're going to have people griefing their own teammates by randomly attacking/killing people.
world pvp is just a bad idea in general. give us proper fair instanced matchmaking pvp.
Im glad i saw this, i was JUST about to buy in but no thanks i dont like pvp i just want to get home from work and chill and zomb out not getting ganked by sweats.
Anyone who didn't see this coming is coping and the possibility of it happening to any player while they're casually chilling is going to be the #1 stress point that holds back this game from blowing up. Losing and thus wasting your limited time to play games is not going to sit well with the majority of the gamer base.
If anything one idea is for there to be rotating zones where open pvp is allowed and the others being optional, otherwise it won't obtain the core population it takes to maintain in online game. Pvp activities that should be included instance battlegrounds, open and instance arenas, instance large scale maps where you can capture/siege/destroy castles, forts, towns, camps, etc.
When thinking about the guild base creation system it would make sense to allow guilds to have two kinds of bases, a main one in a non open-pvp zone and outposts in open pvp zones allowing players to run supply missions between the two bases.
I appreciate the use of my songs in the video and the credit means a lot ❤ (songs: "A Song for Your Beloved", "I Do").
What's the name of the track? Love it!
@@Draxel Glad you love it! It's "A Song for Your Beloved" and "I Do". I'll ad the names to the comment above as well.
Steven is underestimating the people's need to grief regardless of how much you will punish them
World PvP is super niche and as much as people say they want it, there is a reason a game with many millions of players decided to remove it completely, vast majority don't like it.
All it takes it being in the wrong place at the wrong time farming, maybe having a bad day and deciding that you want to kill someone who is in your farm spot, and then that someone's guild has you on KoS list, good luck
"vast majority dont like it" yes, yes we do, Carebears like you come into a pvp game and demand they remove pvp. ITs tiring, go play something else if you dont like world pvp.
People will see this "corruption system" as a challenge to grief further everytime, idk what is he thinking with this design
I still remember in Black Desert Online how people would PK me for simply walking through their farming/grinding area. I was never fighting "their mobs", and I was just running through the area to get to another destination. I essentially just became apart of their mob grind. 🙃
@@OwlskiTV lol "a part of the mob grind" that's hilarious. but yea shit like that would just make me not wanna play anymore
@@framinthor And it's fine, every single game doesn't need to appeal to people like you!
I love having that pressure of high risk high reward where you went to the best grinding zone but with the risk of fighting people coming for you.
It was also making life skilling much more interesting and some NPC location much trickier.
That was literally harrassment, they got warned and got punished
Yet asmoncringe can do a call to action to his tens of THOUSANDS of mongoloid cronies to target someone is fine?
sorry but who let pvp on is dev XD
@echofnoiseechofnoise3888 but pvp is fine, the point is there are rules, harassment is not a pvp feature
I was keeping an eye on AoC, but I'm not a huge fan of open world PVP. I don't care what systems they put in place, or how punishing they are, people will do this shit just for kicks. I'll pass on AoC.
Good luck to Steven and the crew. PvP always on mmo's have always ended up becoming gank boxes. There is, and always will be, players who are only there to ruin the experience for other players. They don't care about the game, they don't care about the company, they only care about themselves, and getting their rocks off killing people. I've played pretty much every mmo that has come out since 1999, and the ones that have open pvp always have this problem. Creating a safe zone for newbies doesn't fix it either. The psycho players are always outside of it waiting for you to step out. No matter how punishing the penalty is they will find a way around it. They will do whatever it takes, even if they have to delete their character and start over, just to make sure they can make as many people suffer as possible. Then the problem becomes do you ban them? If you do then it degrades the purpose of the pvp always on system. I have no idea how to fix it since it is a problem with people and their psychosis.
I am pretty sure banning people with tents outside PVP zones does not impact the rest of the system. Because said fools are actively not engaging in PVP, instead avoid it by preying on weak players.
If the corruption element in the game does not cut it then still the pvp scene loses nothing by these people vanishing.
I've been playing mmo since 2000 (Tibia and and UO), and yeah.... Too many weird angry losers love pvpmmo for them to be a successful genre... Maybe back in the day when success was measure muuuuch differently... But with a budget like AoC, it's insane to think they wouldn't take realize that open pvp doesn't make it's money back because there are people playing the game who don't want it to make money, they don't want people to have fun. They want to prove they are the best at killing people and the best at killing games.
@@snazzydrew How many of the failed always on PVP mmo's had a box cost and a paid subscription? Wouldn't getting account banned be a pretty quick deterrent due to the cost of getting back in the game to continue to grief?
@@rtcmedic almost all of them had a sub/game purchase cost. Back in the day free to play didn't exist. It didn't deter anyone.
@@rtcmedic Ultima Online. My first MMO. Sadly I don't have the patience to explain the ecosystem of RMT and digital worlds to you... Just know that people who are really hardcore about open world pvp MMOs tend have weak morals.
Why do you lose xp for players killing you? It's experience for things you've already done...
Because it make death meaningful
you dont lose xp, instead you keep what XP you have, but instead to keep leveling up you must fill a second xp bar (About 4% of a 100%) before the xp you gain keeps adding to your main xp bar
@@XxBearZeusxXlol literally wrote all this as if its not the same fucking thing.
@@XxBearZeusxX semantics. still have to either regain xp lost or clear a debt before more xp can be gained. Either case it shouldn't happen at all in a forced pvp game. Sure, make it a penalty for the corrupted players who eventually die, they can lose a chunk of xp I guess. But even that is iffy and will cause people to be turned off of the game regardless of how much or how little xp you 'lose'. Loss xp is still loss xp and time.
@@luuin you are missing the big picture, there is a difference if you get griefed or go through a heavy loss streak. with "debt" you cant reset your XP bar to zero, or go into the negatives, or lose levels.
moreover debt has a cap, there is great leniency for dying while still making players care about not dying. Getting taxed for dying as it is implemented in AoC is far away from getting robbed of your XP by griefers, just because you can find some similarities does not mean these two things are the same.
Adds always on, non consensual PVP
Bans players for non consensually PVPing
adds system to punish people for non consensually PVPing
WHY IS IT EVEN THERE?!
I personally dont even understand this from a design perspective.
In absolutely NO reality do the pros outweigh the cons to have pvp enabled at the start of ashes of creation, it is a design no-brainer.
A concept that should have been destroyed before ever even implemented by simply future proofing the concept inside a developers mind by imagining how people actually play the game.
asherons call had open pvp from the start. No guards. Game did well and is still hailed as one of the best mmos released. Carebears like you just cant handle pvp.
@@jimmythecrow I like how my comment somehow means I dont like pvp because i dont blindly defend a failure of a system.
@@jimmythecrowimagine getting mad because people don’t want to waste their time getting ganked 😂😂😂
Asmongold aside, it's the age old issue with streamsniping. It's not "preferential treatment" that some people can't be stalked off-game and abused, it's correcting the imbalance of you're using an unfair advantage to target a specific person and always know where they are.
Also, this is an alpha. This is not a game, nothing is fair, you'll die to a bug and you'll die to abusers just as often, people are not on equal standing.
Alpha for multiple years by the way this is not a good look. Game looks like shit
I appreciate the efforts that Stephen is going to in order to counter griefing. It's going to be interesting to see how it actually plays out in the game. There is always a way around any system. Even in this one, when players have 4 max level alts, and probably multiple accounts, stream snipers are going to be able to grief. I commend Intrepid's goal of creating old school open world pvp vibes. The reason why that's old school and fondly remembered is because it's a bygone era. That player base, doesn't exist. Players are different. Technology is different. Streaming wasn't a thing back then. I really do hope that Intrepid figures it out. But they certainly have their work cut out for them in 2024.
lol go ahead and waste another 100+$
My biggest issue is being able to unflag just before you die to get someone corrupted. That's what a bunch of people do. Once you flag and the player you attack flags you shouldnt be able to toggle it off unless one of you dies or you create a far enough distance between each other.
after you flag it takes 1 minute to unflag to make sure you dont just trigger pk on the other person. and it is 1 minute from your last pvp hit.
You aren't able to manually flag or unflag.
'toggle force attack' is not flagged.
I started Ultima online with open pvp in 97 but we had safe areas in towns/moongates and that game was forced to split the servers to pve and pvp facets due to complaints. I wish them well but it's going to have issues.
Totally agree with Steve on intent of the system and greefers being banned after warning.
@@pvprangergod4024 Lol pvping is fine, mass griefing is not
@pvprangergod4024 there is a difference between PvP PK and just blatant retard with 4 brain cells seeking attention from a streamer.
greefers
@@pvprangergod4024 you're the human cancer that will kill this game. Have fun playing by yourself.
Dude your IQ is below zero. You cant even have a discussion
There's a lot of negatives in this video for the casual MMO player. If they just want to have PvP players and no one else, this game will die on it's arse very very quickly.
Honestly it’s disgusting to see
steven is amazing man he handled it perfectly; I love how he just talks and says it how it is. "I don't care if its asmond or a joe shmo." I respect steven for that answer, good to see
PvP games have no future imo. Making a game that has a major focus on this is doomed to fail.
Ok to people who still dont get it... IF you turn on PVP with no choice to turn it off, you will ALWAYS have people doing this. Every other pvp mmo has/had peace mode in the strater zones. It's not about just killing 1 streamer, there will ALWAYS be people doing this. It gives some people a sense of superiority or they just enjoy it.
Even with strict penalties, you can have a group of people flag and kill someone while swapping the kill shot so they can spread around Karma/corruption...
Just look at BDO, even the Arsha/full pvp server/shard has peace zones. Outside of the peace zone everyone can kill you, which is kinda fun, but towns are always peaceful, otherwise it makes 0 sense...
So what? it's bad? in an mmo game? mmo is about communication, and it doesn't matter if it's friendly or hostile, it's a game about relationships. a gameplay design that requires both sides to turn on some PvP flag for the sake of PvP is terrible, If a player chops down my tree, kills spot mobs, if a group of players kill a world boss that drops legendary items once a week, should I just watch it?
@@schwarzbrecht7624 I fully agree that there should be pvp areas, but in certain areas like towns, starting areas, popular quest routes... it doesnt make a lot of sense, since the only reason you would pvp there is to grief. The way it was shown in the clip, it doesnt make sense. There should be guards that can 1 shot players like in archage and people who kill a lower players should become kill on sight for guards with the same faction as the player killed... There are awesome mechanisms that can make the game nice and prevent griefing, i dont know much about the game but the system shown in the clip is bad and will discourage people from playing. But they will probably change it, or their game will be very niche... which is fine as well, but they probably dont want that
@@Fuz2yman it's obvious that their game is going to be niche.
- access to the CBT costs $100
- here you need to be in communication (you cant press the button waiting for the group and in a minute get into a raid dungeon on the mega-hyper boss)
@@schwarzbrecht7624 Fair enough, it might be good, but i still think if people can grief they will grief a lot, hope for the best though
What they did in Archeage is spread guards in certain areas (and all cities) to act as safe zones. If you attack a player near a guard you get pulled and 1 shot by them. So people would seek refuge near them if they didn't want to fight back. Adds to the immersion.
@pvprangergod4024 The immersion came from looking for the guards to protect you. They were not stationary and had a few roaming patterns.
You could survive the 1 shot and escape, but it was a rare occasion.
World pvp just doesnt works. Way too many people just remember the old days and get nostalgia, but world pvp was always unfair. Back in mmo early days, one wouldnt mind because we had a lot of free time in our hands and because we didnt know better, but now we do. MMO pvp should always be between groups that want to do pvp. IMO the best way to do it is create a zone, put some incentives in it, and let those who like world pvp go crazy in it. The reason why sometimes you see those places empty is because most people just arent interested in getting ganked.
Recent MMO with a potential system for world pvp is Throne and Liberty where world bosses or world events sometimes spawn as a pvp conflicted zone (there is an ingame schedule you can check for this spawns so you can plan ahead be that to participate or to avoid) and massive dungeons also becoming a pvp zone during ingame night time (for 30min). Makes PVP engagement more spectacle than your random gank a weak person in the wilderness.
Absolutely not, who want to play pvp servers bring so much more exitement, struggle and thrill. I would never play pve over pvp server, been playing mmorpg's since 2000 starting ultimas and dransik.
@@kutvisyou are the minority in that though. Most MMO players don’t play MMOs for PvP
@@cynthiahembree3957yes, most MMOs are playing boring theme park crap like WoW. There's plenty of those types of MMOs already, they can go and play one of them.
@@kutvis X to doubt...too many tourist pretending these days to trust what one person claims without proof...
What harm does it do to the game to simply have a PVP Opt-In/Out option? In New World you got extra XP for opting in to PVP so you can incentivise players who either enjoy PVP or are simply prepared to take the risk. Games that focus on PVP seem to have less in the way of actual PVE content to sustain the game.
Ruins the cohesion, immersion and internal logic of the world we're supposed to be inhabiting in game.
Because the point of this game is that the world revolves around conflict. Guilds control territories, resources can be limited, and things like bandits are incentivized by the system as a risk vs reward of trading. Also XP gains for opt-in PvP is an awful system. Literally everyone will prefer to just kill one more mob than paint the one-sided target on their back. New World is a shell of what it was originally planning to be.
Opt in-opt out PvP is always neutered to the point it might as well not exist. I'd rather the game just not advertise having PvP if it's gonna come down to people needing to be permanently flagged to get PvP, but by being the one to flag you give the entire world the chance to jump you and never the other way around.
Taking away the danger takes away the excitement. And I say this as a mostly 'carebear' conflict adverse player.
I was mildly looking forward to New World conflict. I told myself I'd keep PvP on but the reward wasn't worth the risk.
I'm liking ashes currently. Corruption is far too much of a penalty for it to be worth even the occasional gank on most situations. Needs to be dialed down a smidge.
All it does is piss off greifers. There’s literally no reason to not have it. Or make a PVE server. They wouldn’t want that either because they know that’s where everyone would go and the greifers would have only themselves to canibalize.
@@peterlopez2388 is all open world PvP griefing in your mind?
I did warn about this several time but got backlash, whenever there is a possibility to harrass people will do it in so massive numbers that no customer service will be fairly able to handle the customer service tickets
Asmongold baldly went where no bald man has gone before. You gotta respect that.
imagine spending this amount of money just to grief a mf in starting area and get BANNED for it LMAO
To be fair, finding out there is pvp everywhere just turned me off the game completely.
If theres PVE servers i might play, but that looks abusable as fuck.
The fact pvp is on everywhere and you lose xp for getting pk'd means this game is in the grave already.
This game is not made for you, it's fine if you don't want to play.
@@Jovan654321 Every game with open world pvp has failed, are you sure you still want no one to play the game?
@@coedeed World of Warcraft up to like BFA had open world PvP, and it was one of the best games that was ever created.
@@Jovan654321 I just would you to clarify: are really trying to make someone believe AoC open world PVP (free for all, no guards or safe zones) with WoW?
The Asmon drama made me reconsider AoC and drop it. So have fun ganking if you like that playstyle.
There is a difference between consentual PvP and enforced PvP.
The former works perfectly, just flag yourself and have fun. However, if you don't flag yourself you must not be forced to PvP. That is archaic and besides myself it will cost the game lots of potential players.
Just have a look at all the always-PvP MMO out there. What are they all, if they're not WoT-like games? Small and toxic.
AoC may have been good, but this kills it for me.
Toxic is fun. You make friends, you make rivals, there's a bunch of politics - alliances, backstabbing, drama, etc. There's a whole other level of game to dive in - interpersonal relationships in a virtual setting.
How many bots designed to be beaten in a frictionless, stakeless game can you stomach?
@@MATCHLESS789sounds like a headache. If I wanted that I’d just get into real world politics. I’m here to have fun playing a video game.
These devs are dumb as hell with their PvP idea… I called it months and months ago. This will happen to average people to not just streamers
actually, as an avergae player, I encountered a bit of this the first day in, but I havent seen it once since. As far as I can tell, pretty much everyone leaves everyone else alone, unless they have a very good reason not to.
It's the 3rd week and I only see this case XD
@@protobeing3999 imagine thinking your sample size of 1 means ANYTHING
@cloudnine5651 I can offer my experience. All personal experience is anecdotal. That is all. Also you're a loser.
@@cloudnine5651 mhm - continue
Join GRIM GRIEFERS! We are forming a guild to stop the pvp racisim!
Thanks for showing us this video! Was very excited to play this game a few years ago. Seeing it pop up again now makes me very happy to know the cash grab is pvp only. So thankful i never bought into this crap lol. I'm sure the pv...i mean griefers will love this game though! Welp time to wait for another MMO to come out :P
The game aint a cash grab since the devs actually try making a good game n shiet, the problem is the balacing around pvp being non-existant which would most probably ruin the good aspects of this game.
@@crashthedarklordplays2668 I'd argue charging $$$ to have players playtest your alpha isn't a good look, but I digress.
I do agree though that balancing the pvp does create issues.
I (personally) don't think forced open world pvp works in mmo's, as it doesn't fulfill true pvp players (not those griefing) desires to have player vs player combat, and it deters pve players as they don't wish to engage or deal with it. PvP in mmo's always worked best when there were specific areas or zones that specifically catered to pvp. This allows devs to balance the pvp in these zones without affecting the rest of the world and game design.
@OwlskiTV Early access has always been both a good thing and a bad thing , SUBNAUTICA as an example of good and the day before on the opposite end.
@OwlskiTV tbh for me i consider rpg's and mmo's as a whole to be the shittiest slop to exist since they are just bad open world games to me but im trynna speak with the prespective of someone who would enjoy these typa games.
@@crashthedarklordplays2668 In regards to early access, that's a fair argument. There is both pros and cons to it, and I can't deny that.
I personally think *modern* mmo's are poorly done. A lot of the modern ones often miss a key element which made a lot of the older mmo's shine; Taking the large/massive playerbase and utilizing it in more community and world building aspects.
Too many new mmo's these days feel like that have a fairly shallow depth/experience to them, and focus too much on combat, rather than fleshing out an engrossing world in which players naturally want to explore and live in.
yeh good luck stoping griefing and ganking if its allowed, just change the system.
Will never play this game as long as players can kill me for no reason. Got killed over and over in the pre-alpha, fuck this game.
Exactly!!!! Ever since I watched Lazy Peons video several years showcasing Ashes of Creation. And how detailed and complex this game is i knew then and their that this game would be the "WoW, ESO, GW2" Killer without a shadow of a doubt. At that time, Ashes of Creation did not have a stance on how the game will come out in terms of setting. I had to learn through this video that its an "Open World PVP" shit show I will not be spending a dime on it. I love PVP but when it comes to MMOs PVP its always one sided and gank fests occur. I used to play Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK WoW. Where that term was officially coined lol. Ik how it feels to be ganked over and over again.
I can understand, if their was factional PVP like it is within WoW or ESO where you fight the opposite faction as you. But no, this game mandates you PVP with everyone in your server if their good or bad towards yourself. I always preferred PVE to PVP in MMOs anyway, but its a shame with this game because. I do not want to be forced to PVP while doing PVE content. They should be separate completely. I doubt they will ever change their stance, after doing simple digging. They only will have one server.
The people that have a problem with Asmon have their focuses misconstrued. It's the people that give him gold or grief that are the problem. Not him. I was also on during this time. It was frustrating to watch because Ashes has garnered such a supportive community, and then you get the bad eggs that go and ruin the game, the reputation of the community, and the experience for people who are interested or would potentially become interested in Ashes from watching someone else play. An unwritten rule for online games is to leave the real life shit out of it. Everyone who attacked Asmon didn’t do so for anything he's done within the game, it was what they don't like about him outside of the game. The people who tried defending themselves by saying "You made the game like this Steven" think their actions were justified because the game allows pvp 100% of the time. That's like saying because guns in America aren't 100% illegal, that means you can shoot whomever you want. It's such a blatently dumb argument. Glad people like this get banned.
The people that disagree with him don't actually know his osman's opinions because they don't watch his content.
Some of these people justify their vitriolic hate to The point where they hate him as much as they think he hates them. When in actuality he couldn't care less and thinks you are entitled to your own opinion
It's really crazy and this is a really good example of this: How he's still thinking of other people while still in the middle of being griefed not wanting these grifers to get unfair punishment because of what they're doing to him right that moment. Crazy
I tuned into his stream to tell him not to apologize for or defend the griefers, because all he did was try to showcase a game.
I got there and he was literally defending the griefers. I hope he knows he's ALLOWED to be offended sometimes, especially when he's done nothing wrong. But then again, with an audience of tens of thousands watching him live, maybe he isn't.
It's been shown time and again that the majority of MMO players don't like non consensual PvP. There will be a lot of coping, but regardless of the corruption system in 3-6 months the game will be played by a minority.
This is a failure on the designers part. You need a start area that is for new players only, no pvp unless you flag yourself, and no high levels can come in and gank you. If you want help from a friend they need to make another character to join with you. A tutorial that teaches you the game with basic mechanics, lets you explore a bit, gives you a taste of questing, crafting, large and small NPC camps, a dungeon or two with bosses and maybe a physical arena that is free for all turned on. In fact I love the Path of Exiles pre-tutorial single player area before you are dropped into the first chapter bigger tutorial area with the rest of the starting players (I think Tera Online did this too). Albion Online has a GREAT system with tiered zones but it can be annoying with aggressive farmers in the green zones. Warhammer Online has an even better system in my opinion but I get what they are trying to do here. I used to play alot of Mortal Online and you need open world pvp for resource control. You just HAVE to have a non pvp starting area to give people a chance. Proof is obvious in this video. Yes its a pvp game but most online games have a anti- stream snipe policy.
They are designing this with the customers. That is what the Agile system is all about. Now they know this is something they need in place. Everyone can be wise after the event and say they knew it would happen, but they need to know for sure.
I see a lot of people logging in who clearly haven't even tried to read what they are trying to do in Ashes. Global chat is full of people complaining about things missing that are slated for phase3. I'm absolutely loving it. I like that crafting is difficult. I love that it takes days to get mining to level 5. And there is hardly any content yet. It was a bad time to get Asmongold involved. He has his own agenda and it is a time we should be focusing on the game, not him. And the game is getting better and better every day. Confident we can hit the date for phase2.
there will be griefing at every boss, in every dungeon, You will be deep in a major battle, and you'll get griefed and laughed at as they take out your healer, or one shot you when you are low on health. Its like these devs have never played an mmo before.
I'm hyped for this game. It is indeed as you said, Asmongold being target inevitably will lead to less players in the game (because its obvious that he has a huge reach and players would know the game through his videos). And is a great dilemma between "not wanting to give him preferential treatment" and "wanting him to have a normal experience". I don't know the solution, I think that no one knows. Perhaps this is an unwinnable situation. I think that what we will get from Asmon is a review based on his off-stream experience with the game.
@@TheNerogarden yea I truly hope he plays off stream to get a genuine review or even goes with pirate software so he can have a lot of protection
Its not preferential treatment, the dude was not being ganked for any resource, farming spot or anything, he was being ganked for being The Baldy. Griefing 101.
After logging off, he spent more time Just Chatting than he had spent logged into the game trying to explain to his chat that they shouldn't judge the game based on what they had just watched him go through.
People in global chat were literally saying "we need to grief him off the server because he ruins everything he touches." I was one voice in the chorus of voices trying to explain that THAT TAKE is what ruins everything Asmon touches, and that the man himself has nothing to do with it.
He just tried to play a video game and show it off to his audience. Random assholes were what made his time there seem toxic.
Afterwards, Asmon spent time he didn't need to trying to do damage control, even basically DEFENDING the griefers' behavior. On the flipside, I'll bet money those selfsame griefers will not only pop up on Reddit playing the victim, but they'll blame Asmon.
@@pazPAPASIn general streamers do actually ruin servers that they play on simply because their large audience of drones only play the game because their streamers play as well, and once the initial hype train is over you are left with an empty server. Not to mentione they completely disrupt economy, social dynamics, pvp and so on.
@@Jovan654321dude this is the second completely insane stupid comment I've read from you....
You're a selfish, psycho gamer. I can tell straight up. Your logic is flawd but you seem like you think you know what you're talking about.
You're worried about server economy....
The only people who do that are gold sellers and RMTers. Be worried if the game is fun.
So, you confirm the game is a gankfest. That's all i needed to know.
I love everything about this game except for the one HUGE mistake of open world pvp. There’s a reason why nobody plays open world pvp servers/mmos when you compare it to pve
This is a very invalid opinion. Nearly half the systems in this game are tied to PvP, it doesn't work without it. There are like 50 other mmos you can play that suit you, I would consider playing one of those. We don't need another game that servers the PVE crowd at all corners.
If you've been following this games development, you would know that PvP is one of the cores and its not gonna change.
@@Tahiti02 Nothing about their opinion is invalid. You just don't like it.
@@Ghostzapper no, it is invalid. You losers always come into pvp games, pretending you want to pvp, then cry cry cry trying to get it removed and always make the statement "the pve players are the ones who pay for everything, we're the most important"
You should go elsewhere because everything you want is catered to you in some other mmo.
This is absolutely false, if you look at older world of warcraft such as burning crusade there is double amount of PVP servers over PVE.
In games where you lose no gear when someone kills you the corpseganking is only good deathpenalty.
@@kutvis This game isnt for you, move on.
The copium in that guy is seriously cringe.
1. "griefing cant happen because punishment"
2. Asmon gets griefed
3. Devs adds more punishment
4. Repeat step 1
Bruhhh
This is definitely not normal in game behavior, no normal player is going to have 30+ people be followed around and griefed for the whole time they play it’s just to keep gameplay normal and in my opinion I think there should definitely be a safe zone for the starter area even if that’s the only safe zone which would be fine as this is going to be a pvp based game
You say this, but I have played WoW since 2004. Death balls, gank squads, finding dead zones in places like ratchet, gadgetzan, etc. this is normal in an MMO. Yes, the degree of 30+ people may be noteworthy and unique. But people engage in this behavior all. The. Time. I can flash back to an uncountable number of times on WoW in which I had to deal with campers
@ yes you may occasionally encounter things like that happening but there is a vast difference in wow with pvp being limited and it isn’t happening the entire time you play from the time you spawn in for the first time until you get off the game, there’s nothing wrong with ganks and such happening but if it is such a scenario where half the server is following one player around this isn’t natural gameplay and clearly isn’t an intended design
I've been warning the devs and community for months that forced PvP will ruin the game. Asmondgold getting greifed is the first step to killing the game. Remove it, it's crap.
Open world PvP will always be toxic and in best case a chaotic zerg - likely with a lot of lag, so it's more ridiculous than anything else.
When you don't lose anything, that's something you may still laugh about. But when you even just lose XP, that's stealing life time. The time you invested to get that XP is now just made worthless.
For such things to work you need ironclad borders. Even the corruption system won't be enough.
The thing is: a system powerful enough to get rid of griefing will likely just kill open world PvP all together.
In the end the only halfway working way is to limit it by choice and/or area. So only those who want to PvP or go into areas which are seen as dangerous are taking part in it, so you can avoid it.
Delusional take. Asmongold is the only one who's getting hard greifed at the moment, that's gonna happen unless he gets a guild and doesn't try and play casually. The corruption atm makes it so fuckin punishing that no one who's not asmongold is just getting hard greifed. You die all the time in ashes and it takes 10 min to work off the exp debt. Losing the gear + being killable by all players + needing to grind off has will deter any max level on full realase. Asmongold isn't the rules he's the 50,000-1 acception
@@mazmundiegriefing is why I stopped playing archeage. I jumped into the game late in its life cycle so I didn’t think it was gonna be a problem. Was on my own doing quests and like 5 dudes just kept ganking me over and over again. I realized I wasn’t having fun and was instead wasting my time so I just uninstalled and decided to play something else.
@peterlopez2388 the punishment in ashes for going corrupt is so large that in the endgame of ashes it would equate to losing days of progress just to kill one person, as of current ashes that I'm playing 12 hours a day on the weekend days I'm currently seeing about 3 corrupted people a day, this is in early level testing phase with an upcoming wipe. I've heard people that have played that and other flagging games saying the punishment so far in ashes is exponentially worse. You may be right, but because of how it's currently tuned I don't think it will be the case
@@mazmundie so much effort put into punishing people for the PVP when you could just make it so players flag for it. Even then it still doesn’t dissuade people. So much for the corruption system.
@peterlopez2388 well the point of the game is resources are finite so if you can't control them then someone else will, it's not a game where pvp is tacked on. I've followed this game deeply over the last 4 years and all the systems are intertwined.
do they really ask 120$ to join the alpha? like beach what the actual fak ....
20 years ago I was in the beta for a niche game called Thread Space Hyperbol. Among the testers were some SA Goons who were friends with one of the devs. Being a player if the game since it's early conception myself, I was good enough at it to hold them back. But when the game finally launched, those players who had gotten incredibly good and who knew the perfect, cheap load outs, they relentlessly destroyed all the new players who had just bought the game on release. I don't think it lasted a week before the servers were empty.
I have been tester from the start , and I have to stay griefing low levels is very rare in Ashes, none ever attacked me to grief me , and I don't know anyone who got attacked and got bullied yet I am a part of massive guild that had to be split in two to accommodate everyone, true I was literary destroyed trying to get my caravan from A to B but that was different , that is a part of the game and expected, that why driving caravan is so nerve wracking, you literarily are the flag shouting come attack me and take my goods! and yes if you are lucky and do caravan in non-peak times and chose backward path where few players go you will make it!
@@Berndrwas looking forward to this game. I didnt go to this test because i dont feel the need to pay to quality test a game. Now after seeing what happened to baldy, I realised older and no lifers will always have the tool to screw me over and I cant do anything to prevent that. If someone doesnt like me, they can just bully me into quitting the game since I cant do anything. I thought all time pvp is also an exciting concept but I saw how abusive the players are and how easy it is to abuse.
@@saltylemonz258 none has attacked me at all , not even once ... people don't really seem to do it in this game asmogold was a special case
Non-Consensual PVP = Griefing. The only 2 players that want it are griefers and those who see themselves as saviors that imagine themselves saving someone from getting griefed. And griefing has to be taking place in order for both to exist.
It's very obvious that Steven intends for the whole non-consensual pvp mechanic to be something that's immersive and makes sense in the confines of the game, but Steven also forgot about the kind of idiots that MMO's with perma-flagged pvp attracts. It doesn't matter how harsh the punishment is for the one doing the griefing, they will find ways to keep going it and never stopping. This will 100% make it so that this game will never be as populated as other MMO's, like Asmon said. If they are content with that then, go ham.
I just hope he recorded his gameplay on Verra so that we can still see him play the game.
@@AOC_Cultist yea hoping he plays offline and does a review
It might not be preferencial treatment but its a kind of special treatment no one else will ever receive, if a group of people decide they want to make the game hell for another person there won't be any GM involvement (see the Piratesoftware controversy) and I am fine with that but I don't think that the double-edged sword of being an influencer should mean the man receives any sort of free pass or whatever
if he managed to grow a community that hates him so much they kill him on sight, or one that thinks this is just a "haha funny" thing and he will be fine with it then seems like his problem
losers like u are the problem here
there should be level protection.
u cant get pvped until u reach level xx
that would fix alot
and now you have a massive low level botting problem
You would have the same problem at level xx+1.
@@qvick3280 that seems a bit strange. how was pvp going to "fix" botting
@@Bananenbauer123 you could kill or farm the bots while they are out there, but if there is level protection until, let say, level 5 (and the bot detection is shit), you can't get rid of the bots in any way and they ruin the non-combat based economy. simple as that
@@ausoleil8269 i mean yea prob but atleast u could fight back then. im not talking about level 10 or so. maybe 10-20 levels from max or something like that.
losing exp in MMORPG is the wors thing you can do in this type of games
A game where every where pvp is on WILL be ,any game that did this showed this, a GANK and GRIEF-Fest. Do they think they are special ? It wil be that way because humans are shitty without rules. But hey maybe they disprove a couple of thousend of years of human history and decades of game-history, maybe they are the chosen one OR it will not work and they will have PVP only for those that want that. That game suffers from "i know it better"-syndrom.
Not my type of game but can't you implement a way for players to make their own home base kinda like rust? You can limit base size, base capabilities, base location, base raidability etc all to your liking
02:32 that’s all anyone needs to see and to be said by another player that’ll drive most players away from trying your game. They should be banned to protect the product and the community. These pkers don’t stay long in the community before they move on to the next thing. However by the time they do move on the player base has shrunk to much where it can’t support the game or no one is playing the game.
Now there are games that survived from these griefers. For example RuneScape and Warcraft. This is mainly due to them being the only mmo of their time. They also now have a sizable community that are loyal to the game. New games like this aren’t going to survive due to their being more choices in the mmo genre.
As a random dude that just happens to come across this video I can just say this doesn't appeal to me at all. Logging in to just chill and do some quests just to have 5 random dudes kill and loot me out of nowhere is not my definition of fun especially in a MMO. It sure sounds like fun reading about those kinds of MMOs in novels and manga but when that actually happens to you well most of the time you just quit and play something else.
Having PvP always on is legit something that might prevent me and my friends from playing this as we feels we're just not sweaty enough for these games now that were in our mid 30s and ironically I'm the one always pushing for PvP games in my group such as Rust or Tarkov but even I don't see the appeal of this in an MMO.
the corruption system will solve nothing in terms of griefing. a higher level character in white gear is still going to stomp lower level characters, so the griefer meta will be to make a high level alt with trash gear so nothing is at risk. negative karma alts have been used to subvert PK pentalties for decades.
even with higher level characters, you lose less materials if you retaliate before you die, so most ganks will count as "consensual pvp". the fact is that world pvp has never been done well and will never be done well. i get that they're going for an oldschool partial loot pvp system, but it's just always going to be a hellhole no matter what measures you take to mitigate it. there will be megaguilds who lock down entire raid zones, there will be max level alts with replaceable gear running around one-shotting noobs, and there will be nothing anyone can do to stop it.
@@ElderSign32 you obviously haven’t played the game yet. Leveling is brutal you’re not just throwing together a level 20 instantly.
a pvp cooldown system is best, you shouldnt be able to engage in open pvp constantly
I was going to try and give a reasoned response to this, but you literally said "world pvp has never been done well and will never be done well," and I just...
Yeah, no, you're right. Nothing has ever been done perfectly so we should all just give up and bomb ourselves into nuclear winter. That'll fix everything.
o_o There are less offensive ways to say "I don't like PvP." Maybe just don't play the game.
YEP what they need to do is making dieing makes you lose the highest value stuff out of your bank.
:)
problem solved
Like deadman zone in osrs.
tell you never played a mmo with open world without telling me
Excellent thoughts on all this! It was nice to meet you a couple days ago in the highwaymen hills. Sorry it had to go down like that.
Bruh, Asmon needs to use his celebrity to have a gank squad that follows him around.
Help him gear up and level, he cannot have a normal experience because he isn't a normal gamer; he has celebrity.
It sounds kind of lame but that is the nature of his position.
not wrong here tbh. Its either this or play offline. Theres a reason PirateSoftware didnt have this issue on our server
I think you're the only person that finally get it in this whole comment section this could've happened anywhere having a safe starter area wouldn't have solved anything
@@onyx4469 It could have, and it'd still be against ToS, mass griefing is harassment according to them, no corruption at that point, just a warning and then a ban. Stevens repeated this years ago. Freak incident and at some point people will get the message.
You can grief and get corruption, but don't go thinking you're going to be allowed to non stop grief the same person by yourself or with a group, and if you do, well then enjoy your ban.
dont forget to suck him too... you seem to love him that much
@@Nyce-Gaming PirateSoftware Doesn't have this problem because he does not foster that kind of crowd! You reap what you sow, He did this to him self with multiple choices made over a period of time . . . I do not advocate harming anyone! But when one provokes the public eventually " Like Prank TH-camrs " They get what's coming to them.
this sets a precedent, i will not be playing a game where i can't leave the starting zone without being killed by a loser who has nothing better in his life than spawn camp lvl1's
If they don't want players griefing at the beginning of the game they shouldn't make it so they can be griefed.
not the point of this...and that was not PvP that was stream sniping and griefing btw know the difference...
@@MrAngryMonkey100 That's still PvP, it means player vs player, asmongold is a player getting attacked by players. Whether it's stream sniping, griefing, harassment, it's still PvP at the end of the day.
It may not be what they intended for the PvP to be like, but this was bound to happen where PvP is forced.
Same thing would happen with safe zones, people will just wait outside the safe zone and punish players for trying to leave, seen that plenty of times in MMOs.
they did it on purpose lol. you think this was an accident? they WANTED it to be like this. cmon ppl use your head
What I found strange is that not a single Mayer in any of the Nodes has decided to build a Market, Market is an Auction house for players to trade, so unless the Mayer of the node city build one none can trade at all, they build various workshops, yet we can't exchange /sell /buy resources and crafts anywhere but at the basic NPC vendor !
I won't play the game until i can confirm where the streamers are playing and not play there, I expect many others will do the same
@@XxXVideoVeiwerXxX ngl… for phase 2 wipe I’m doing the same
For now. Avoid Lyneth
you'll end up on a dead server that way. after the release hype dies down, its usually the streamer servers that are the only ones with a decent sized population
@@ElderSign32 Sounds like free transfers need to exist then.
@@Nyce-Gaming Is Lyneth the streamer one? I picked that on when the big release happened and haven't had much time to play.
@@michaeltingen1076 it would seem Lyneth is indeed the streamer server
Yea its a gankbox why can you even grief in the starter area? Game is gonna die within a year if they dont fix that shit, it shouldn't be actionable because it shouldn't be in the damn game
What Steven said about not giving Asmon preferential treatment is only partially true. I think he is being truthful in all he says about griefing not being welcome at about 7:12 - I think he believes those things and those statements are likely their goals. But the fact of the matter is that it was only probably noticed and acted on at all because it was a high-profile player. If s random community member was getting killed repeatedly and was complaining in global about it, the response probably would have been something like "that is what the corruption system is there for" and that they would review data and make tweaks as needed. I understand why they acted swiftly on Asmon getting griefed, but it's disingenuous to say that he didn't get preferential treatment.
Yeah dude is capping hard, he's only mad because it exposed their bad system.
@@TheDizzled32I think the preferential treatment argument is irrelevant. A 'celebrity' DOES get preferential treatment.
Analogy wise... It's like a movie star having fans outside their hotel. People are giving them attention, so the hotel has to compensate. You could blame the hotel for hiring more security/limo for the celebrity, or the fans. But it's really neithers fault, just an aspect of being a celebrity.
Isn't griefing literally the point of non-consensual pvp? Rather than implementing some strange system that punishes people for pvp in an open pvp game.... why not just let people toggle pvp on and off? Seems to be needlessly complex to solve a problem that everyone else has already solved with a simple toggle.
I'm sad that this was Asmon's beginning experience. Seeing his smile fade should not be how anyone experiences Verra for the first time. Hopefully, he can get back on the horse and try again.
Asmon is a piece of ****** seeing his smile fade away gave me life
I'm sorry that you have that much hate. Hopefully, things will get better for you.
@@Takagi_san I agree fuck that guy for saying the things he did about foreign people's . . .
@@zometthecomet he was talking about murderers and people who want to do terrorism, sure he didn't clarify which are the bad ones but you hating him makes you evil and the wrong one.
@@BloodDrenched-y6i Who said the word hate? Please try to read
I hate to say this. I really think the developers thought their players were better than this. That is the reason they hadn't implemented a lot of protections. They didn't think they would need too, especially in an Alpha where people played a decent amount of money to be there. They though that just the buy in would be enough to sort out bad actors. Unfortunately they were wrong. I wish they were right, but people are not always nice.
Do streamers deserve special privilege?
Steamers do not deserve special privilege, however it does have benefits for marketing of the game.
Where's the line between PvP and griefing?
The line between PVP and griefing is something that defined by the developer through game design.
Should the Stream Snipers be banned?
Stream snippers should not be banned, the only case where it should be banned if it's in a competitive situation.
Why has there been so much negative feedback on the new player experience and how should PvP be limited in the starter zone?
Negative feedback comes from a bad player experience or design. The limitation of PVP in starter zone is a problem that was solved long ago... you just don't allow it.
Drama with Asmongold
It's part of his own community that fosters this type of behavior. I've watched countless of other streamers and everyone else had a way better experience.
Creative Director Steven Sharif sat down with PirateSoftware
Interview had a weird vibe. Good intention from both parties.
I used to be a red player in BDO long before valencia was a thing, penalties mattered little, there's ways to get around it (or you just suck it up) and the benefits are huge when competing for farming spots. Back then I would just show up and kill everyone on sight, holding the spot for my guildies.
As long as a limited amount of ressources is shared between players, karma/corruption systems will always lead to abuses. If the system is too harsh people abuse the protection offered by the system to troll, if the system is too lenient the game just turns into a warzone.
The idea that corruption can be balanced is a pipedream, you either go full pvp or no pvp at all.
Steven said it very well. Find another community. I personally think he should have started after a wipe and not stream until he’s level 10 or so. It’s not fair but that could have helped.
I will never touch this game because of this. You need an alpha to understand this was a bad idea. This shows how incompetent the devs are
I dont think the issue is him being PvPed.
Its him being stream sniped.
I have not read the ahses tos but im sure it looks like any other mmo where that breaks tos if not im sure it will be added soon
No such thing as stream sniping, if you're dumb enough to broadcast your location then you handle with people coming to kill you
@diggles27 thanks for describing stream sniping
@diggles27 that is stream sniping dummy
Even ignoring stream sniping Asmon was being griefed, which does in fact break the TOS of Ashes. If you yourself are a griefer I hope you get perma banned just like I hope those that griefed Asmon are perma banned even for the full release. The Ashes community doesn't want griefers and stream snipers
@@diggles27 And what you just described is griefing, which is a ToS violation in every MMO. If you're dumb enough to break the rules for no reason, you deserve commensurate punishment.
@@diggles27 you admitting why you should be banned asap is hilarious. cry more plz
if you ask me i think that at least some of the people that griefed asmon were the same type of people who are ddosing the game every weekend or who are in general salty af that people are enjoying the game
Love him or hate him he is simply someone with a large geeky (if not entirely toxic) following. Him showing evidence of the game being good (because it is) will be very good for the community. Steven has been excited by admin holds attention on ashes for years. He was looking forward to that stream.
It makes sense to suspend. Ban seems harsh but they knew what they were doing and intrepid has been clear actionable offenses will be met with a firm hand in order to make boundaries clear.
Nah it's not Harsh to ban. It's 2024 Anyone with the ability to get into Alpha II (i.e. earn money) should have some idea how Marketing works and how important it is. Their momentary "fun" was literally taking marketing dollars from the devs. Those players should have been sued for that, not just banned. stop being a snowflake and start thinking about business. No excuse for not knowing how business works in 2024. get out.
@@craigcj5953sued in a video game lol stfu go touch some grass game looked like ass either way. Bunch of streamers grinding mobs with no direction. Alpha for multiple years cheek ass game
@@craigcj5953 “SEEMS harsh BUT” I think I ended my comment on the same page as you and still got called a snowflake and told to leave for not “knowing how business works in 2024.” Who’s the triggered snowflake here? 😂
as a developer , how can someone who developed this game , with such pvp systems and open world pvp , didn't expect this ? I am sorry but I am talking about streamer only , normal guilds and players , they will dominate the server and control who spawns and who don't spawn lol , people these days abuse too much in the game systems , I hope they really limite pvp and make complete safe zones
Yup I’m no game dev but I saw this coming. Some people just like to make others mad. It was naive to think this wouldn’t happen. I hope the team learns from this
I don't want to play on a server with a big streamer. It's cringe and unimmersive.
Seeing all their simps follow them around, making everything trivial, and bending the server to their will.
I'll just wait a month after release and then avoid all servers with streamers.
Just play the game lol. I mean I don't like it either. Anyhow, you can't suppress yourself cuz some cringe moments
They need to learn from albion online. In that game there are blue zones: Towns and starting zones where PVP is disabled. Yellow zones: Flag pvp (No gear loss when dying). Red zones: Flag pvp full loot, you lose all your gear. Black zones: No flagging, no rules. Everyone PVPs.
This flag system is just stupid.
Asmongold is huge, he can bring a lot of interest to the game. Hate him or love him, he can only BENEFIT ashes in the long run. I want this to be the next MASSIVE mmo, and everything I've seen during A2 leads me to believe it can be.
To that end we gotta let these big content creators delve into the game, I'm 100% positive pirate software has been a huge PLUS to the game.
For the long term health of the game guys, let them hit level 10 first xD