A couple of points. Fitting sockets on the skirting board was a fairly common thing back in the day, especially with rewires. The old 5 / 15 amp sockets were on the skirting boards and so the new socket would be fitted in the same place. The skirting boards were bigger in older properties, plus I always used to make sure a plug would fit ok in the new socket. Also many owners wanted as little mess as possible, so no cutting out above the skirting board. I remember the old light pendants were fitted to a wooden patress hence the new ceiling rose had to be big enough to cover the hole in the ceiling. Ancient history 🙂 Interesting to see old vir cabling, I’m surprised it’s still in use.
We are still pulling VIR conduit cables out in New Zealand. Oddly the best condition VIR cables I ever worked on had tags attached at the switchboard saying "Emergency War Grade". I don't know what was altered or left out - but it was as good as the day it was installed.
@@johnsimpson8263 That’s interesting, I wonder if the rubber mix was changed because of wartime shortages? In my experience the VIR I’ve seen ranged from ok( ish ) to awful. It’s just occurred to me that perhaps the climate of the country the VIR is installed in has any effect? Probably not, but it’s just a thought.Thanks for the reply
@@nigelmorse3909 Pulled out plenty of stuffed VIR. And sometimes there was a mix in the same installation of good and bad, though it was clearly installed at the same time. There must have been a variation in mixes from batch to batch. Bottom line, good to have it out.
@Felix McWick Hi. VIR was the forerunner to PVC cable. The insulation was made of vulcanised India rubber, hence the name. One of the drawbacks is that over time the rubber ( usually ) becomes hard and brittle thus rendering the cable useless. I think I’m correct in saying that it was used approximately from 1900s to 1950s. I hope this helps
@@nigelmorse3909 same as all the old wiring here in USA(probably Canada and South America too), especially anything above an ceiling light fixture which baked many years from incandescent bulbs\ or behind receptacles, which have been worn out for 30+ years and overheating! same for even older back to knob and tube, the rubber hardens and the cloth becomes brittle and when you try to flex it at all? Snap/Crumble/Pop bare wire.
I think one of the main reasons for socket outlets being installed on skirting boards was partly due to to them usually being rear cable entry and in older properties the wooden skirting boards were spaced off offering a easier route for installation of the cabling and fixing of the socket outlets. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
The reason for the plug sockets on the skirting boards, the old round plug and sockets were mounted on the skirting boards so when people rewired properties they put the new sockets over the old holes to cover the previous damage. The issue of the plug tops not plugging into the socket outlet on the skirtings nowadays has only come to fruit because of the new strain relief fitted to the plug tops
I would like to add to this discussion that it was easy enough to remove the skirting board and hide the wire behind it without doing too much Wall carving for cases of retrofitting electricity into houses that never had it before.
@@imark7777777 from past experience of carrying out rewires on properties like this the skirting boards haven’t been removed to chase out cables that would have been uneconomic these house all had electricity in the past and it was the norm that the old round three pin socket outlets were placed on the skirting board, so when the houses were rewired to save damage to the property the old round sockets were replaced with new square pin socket outlets on the skirting and the cables fed from under the floorboards into the socket which required no wall chasing
good tip moving washing machines etc , get some bacofoil kitchen stuff ,fold 4 into squares put one under each foot of the appliane they are great sliders !!!
Sockets in skirtings! When old houses had electricity installed back in the 1920's and 30's the old round pin sockets were fitted in the skirtings because it was easier to get a fixing in the timber skirting than the lath and plaster wall. When the house was rewired in the 70's and 80's they ripped out the old round pin sockets and fitted new square pin sockets in the same hole, because it was already there. Remember back in the 70's and 80's we used rewireable square pin plugs, that were a wee bit smaller than modern moulded on plugs, so the plugs from the 70’s fitted easily.
question from an american: Can you install the sockets upside-down? Like with the ground pin being on top? Seems like it would make the plugs easier to use with your standards. Here in North America, the sockets technically have no set orientation and can be installed any direction you see fit. We just usually have the ground on the bottom. Occasionally we'll put the ground on top to denote that that socket is controlled by a switch, but that's not required. (note that different states and counties can have their own laws that do specify, so some areas don't let you "flip" them, and some require that you do.) Edit: I forgot I can just look up laws elsewhere. Best I could find is: "A socket-outlet on a wall or similar structure shall be mounted at a height above the floor or any working surface to minimize the risk of mechanical damage to the socket outlet or to an associated plug and its flexible cord which might be caused during insertion, use or withdrawal of the plug." So if the ground being down would pose a hazard to the cable, then one should install it the other way. Either that, or move the socket, but then you have to patch a hole in wood, which isn't fun.
Hi Tom, In regards to the boiler covers, some boilers front casings form part of the combustion seals. In removing it you have compromised the room sealed integrity of the appliance. This seal should be checked when refitted to ensure it’s room sealed preventing any products of combustion entering the room. Most of the time it’s not an issue but it an ass covering exercise. Great work mate
Was literally about to post this. It's not as big an issue on new boilers as they're mostly negative pressure but older ones with positive pressure cases had the potential to spew CO back into rooms. The only time a sparks should be wiring in a boiler now is if the control board compartment is separate from the combustion seal (which is basically never, given how most of them are using the full front casing as the seal) otherwise they're contravening the gas regulations. Hopefully no one dies but until someone does and a sparks goes down for it most guys will carry on without a care in the world over it.
House pre 1966 didn't have CPC on lighting. In those days you had a single socket in each room . Life in those days were far less complicated than they are today. There was much call for power, mainly you had a radio a tv and lights that was all
Great video! Good to have you back! So whether or not you are allowed to remove the cover of the boiler depends on if the cover is just decorative or whether or not you are breaking the room seal to the combustion chamber. This varies from boiler to boiler. The gas safe register people have a pretty good explanation on this which is defo worth checking out.
Receptacles at baseboard level was done to provide clean looking walls. Also, since it wasn't required to have receptacles spaced at certain distances, extension cords were used quite commonly, and they are easier to hide/run when starting at ground level
Haha, yes one 15 amp socket on the landing and no sockets in the bedrooms. Why would they need a power socket in the bedroom? afterall each bedroom had a fireplace. Maybe a pendant 2way switch to turn off the light when in bed too.
As long as the boiler case you are removing does not break the combustion seal, then you can remove it, if it breaks the combustion seal of the boiler (like some actually do) then you need to be Gassafe registered.
@@dazl7954 I do alot of heating wiring and your lucky if the customer has the handbook for the boiler. Iv only ever needed a screwdriver so guessing not come across 1 yet 😂
@@trevorcrisp6263 it is always best to check with the manufactures tech line if no manual, and if google is no help etc. its a legal requirement that the gas appliance manual is left on site, and if its a condensing boiler that you break the combustion seal on, then it can be worse, as you need a Flue Gas Analyser to check it after any form of work is carried out, if this has not been carried out, then under the GIUSP the boiler is classed as unsafe. most electricians do not know this. I have seen many gas boilers wired up incorrectly, not to spec, and the combustion seal broke, but most times a "blind eye" is turned.
Hi there Thomas, I am a new watcher of your channel, it was recommended by Big Clive (when checking out your Milk Frother, and I am enjoy listening to the different terminology between our Countries, I live in Australia and you obviously the UK (I was born in Stoke-on-Trent (Western Coyney) a long time ago and came over as my Dad was an Underground Deputy in the Coal Mines). I, too, am a Leco by trade also, I worked in the Power Stations (Industrial) as well as Commercial and Residential as a side business (Contractor). But yes the old plaster board being a little more brittle than the new stuff, that as well as the way they used to frame a home, meant that when electricity became available to everyone, they put the power outlets on the skirting boards as the plaster board would never of held up to the Inserting and Removal of plugs, specially when people were not used to doing that. At least that's what I was told when I was a young apprentice. Oh, one other thing as you were installing new lights, and you mentioned there being no Earth wire, I was thinking WOW, as in Australia it has been the rule that you MUST Provide an Earth wire at every Light point, to allow for future changes. So I was surprised at that. Seeing as our Wiring Rules Bible was mimicked on the Irish Rules a long time ago, as they were some of the strictest rules about. So a little bit of trivia for you. I wish you and your business Well in the future. Regards, Gordon
Plugs used to be well less bulky & didn't have the massive plastic strain relief bits on, just a small flex, so could go pretty much right up to the skirting & be nicely hidden away
Tom try opening the washing machine door and using the top of the opening to slightly lift the front of washer while you drag it out. Makes it so much easier especially on vinyl which drags and rips easy.
@@paulmatthews5470 huge fun. Drink anyone under the table, tell great jokes and always up for the bag. It’s just I don’t go to children’s parties. I’m not fun at those.
a bit of hardboard i've found works to allow the feet to slide and its something you could carry with you (hell even one of them plastic carpet protectors cut down would work i guess)
I’m a 3rd year apprentice now as a spark. You spoke about removing the boiler cover. My boss has taught me to take the cover off for testing as majority of plumbers are think they can do a good job wiring it. That’s my view
Honestly that's not the best idea. Testing it from the spur is fine in proving an electrical circuit. Aside from the combustion chamber topic, anything goes wrong with the boiler, you get the blame. Seen many sparks come unstuck by leaving fridges and freezers unplugged in the noble quest of an insulation resistance test.
@@idi0tdetectioninprogress In my opinion the test should be done at the boiler in order to determine if it is earthed. I can understand testing at the spur. But in older homes nowadays it’s normally spurred off the ring final
@@idi0tdetectioninprogress Fair point. If you were to do the 2391 in the spec it says a test should be carried out at the appliance. Same for the cooker. Because you’re fully qualified doesn’t mean anything in my eyes. You’ve got your tickets well done. Don’t say apprentices are brain dead because you’ve been there as well as every other spark.
Some boiler cases are part of the combustion chamber and the seal can be damaged when removing the case. But the boiler in this video the case is not part of the combust chamber. If there is a rubber or foam strip on the case then that’s the combustion chamber. 👍👍👍👍 great content btw
@07:30 I think most sockets were positions to be 'out of the way' in the 50s + (until the 80s even?). Like it was considered an eye sore that a lamp, extension cored or vacuum was connected to but the electrical needs of then are different than now.
We take boiler covers off for r1+r2. We disconnect the earth inside the boiler so there's no parallel paths. But they are boilers we know, potterton and baxi, where the flue incoming and outgoing is internally sealed. However, my boiler is an ideal and when you remove the front cover, you notice the incoming flue is open inside the outer casing - the outer casing has a seal around it. So technically you're interfering with the flue of a gas appliance. Not sure on the exact regulations though.
I started work with the Post Office in the early 70,s. We didnt have electric drills let alone hammer drills in the early days. It was either a rawl chisel or hammer and chisel the plug the wall with wooden wedge. Any existing wooden surface that could be used was a godsend. Can only think the electricians of the day did the same and used the skirting. My best find was an extension bell screwed to a piano. I kid you not.
The V-Pro dimmers are trailing edge dimmers, ie. they chop off the end of the half-sine wave rather than the start of it. I don't know about other makes of "suitable for LEDs" dimmers.
Here in Russia we've got some newspeak stuff happening with American brands. Some internet stores and marketplaces portray these brands as if they're still somewhat made in America. Sometimes it is just something innocent like small letters somewhere down below "Birthplace of the brand USA". Although often it is just says that it is USA without any explanation whether it was made in USA or the brand belongs to holder in USA.
Cover on some boilers all to do with ventilation for combustion of gas. Think of it like a tiler taking off a socket off the wall then putting it back . No problem at all😅
Of course, when power sockets were installed in skirting boards is was often because the place was built before electricity was available. And the plugs were rewireable, so needed less space for the tail at the bottom.
Didn't see your comment before I commented... As far as gas is concerned just don't play with any ignition control or gas carrying parts! www.gassaferegister.co.uk/media/1449/who-can-legally-work-on-a-gas-appliance-factsheet.pdf
@@edc1569 Yes V-Pro are trailing edge by default. You can switch them to leading edge though I don't see why you would want to. There are also two trailing edge modes, though I struggled to see any difference between them and the instructions don't say.
Another thing with sockets in skirting boards is that of course no appliances came with fitted plugs, so there was no external molding where the cable left the plug - making it "more" practical for the cable to have a 90 degree bend immediately below the plug.
The reason I believe for sockets on skirting boards is that it was a good fixing( eg it may of been Lath and plaster) or if it was a stone wall they had to hack the box out with a hammer and bolster so much easier to fix to skirting plus no moulded plug tops back then.
Forget Stanley mate , buy Knipex cobra pliers once and you'll never go back , you'll actually wonder how you managed to do without it before , real talk 👍
Brick houses and hand tools meant that cutting channels was basically out of the question, which meant punching holes and hoping the wall was double brick. Often if you try to replace those wires you discover that they were put in as the wall was built and are now cemented in place. So often at the time the place was built outlets were put in skirting boards, and any reprofit often leaves or blanks non-skirting board outlets and even switches just because anything else is a huge pain. I have light switches in the frame of my front door where the wiring goes straight into the mortar between bricks - I dare not even touch them because there's no access to the screws on the terminals.
It isn't down to different rubber, its because of heat. You see it when you pull up floor boards and one piece of cable has pliable parts and brittle parts. The brittle parts tend to be where its running through the joists and close to hot pipes.
That seems to be about when it stopped, though it was already uncommon by that point in new construction. It was simply easier to put them there when buildings were retrofitted for electricity or extra outlets/circuits were added, especially with horse hair plaster in play. That stuff doesn't take kindly to being disturbed.
Some old houses in the US have the outlets in the floor. Great when they have a Bakelite face plate on them that breaks the first time someone accidentally sets a chair leg on it. The jackass that rewired my house, built in 1921, rewired in the 90s, left the outlet for the refrigerator in the floor. None of the other outlets were in the floor, just that one. On ceramic tile. After about the third time the faceplate got broken, I finally yanked that outlet and moved it into the wall where it should have been in the first place. Now there's a hole in the floor, but it's under the fridge, so screw it until the kitchen gets remodeled.
Good video Thomas, we'd love to come down and do a collab video with you, I've been watching you from the start, and you've inspired me to make my own channel which is doing well now. Keep up the great content again and great to see you making regular videos again!
i love your videos, at least you have when you work, after 35 years as an electrician in the states here, residential work is quite boring and frustrating at times, i prefer commercial work, thanks for the vids,..
Typically, LED dimmers are rated from 0 Watts up to whatever their range is, so are ideal for just one or two LEDs. Gas Safe told me there are two boiler types, one where the cover is part of the combustion chamber so has a seal as part of the cover, two is a cover that is not part of the seal. They said it's perfectly legal and safe to remove the latter but not the former, as that's gas works. Note that rubber multi core cables were TRS, whereas the singles were VRI, some of which contains asbestos, see: electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2021/84-march-2021/estimating-the-age-of-an-electrical-installation/
English TRS has an outer sheath, VRI woven cloth sheath = both use rubber insulation, go brittle and are well past their designed use by date! Australia TRS and VRI = VRI!
sockets in skirting boards? Saw one like that before, found some old newspapers behind the skirting and it was from 1903! So, don't think they cut those sockets out in the 80's. . . maybe the 1880's Also found out, the guys that used to run the bell wires around properties and that - like from Downton Abbey where they ring the servants - those guys were the first sparkies. . . whodathink 😁
Why is the red and yellow reflective strips necessary on your vans ? I can understand it on the bucket van where you’re doing highway works, but why is it needed on the other ones ? 🤔
Chevrons on the back of your van, Battenburg is the same as down the side of Vosa, Police, Ambulance & fire vehicles (Squares, like the Battenburg cake)
Sockets were on skiting as furniture was free standing and you only had a socket or 2 per room. It was easier to install a socket on the skirting, as there was a cavity behind.
I think the reason for the skirting sockets were that if they are close to the floor that they wouldn't be seen or hit my chairs as those old chairs and sofa's were all high off the ground.
theres a seal on the cover of some boilers and a swath of gas engineers think that everyone other than them is incapable of telling whether a seal is fucked or not.
NEST, oh look we can control it via our sheeple devices (sure, so can your hacker neighbors and half 1/3rd of the worlds population, if they see fit). some of us could majorly break things, but choose to work hard at curbing and correcting the stooge collegiate degree, very poorly made and broken products, preferably before they damage too much. but we're outnumbered heavily by idiocies. no worries, things will come into a major focus again sooner than later.
Hi Tom, with regards to the boiler.. i was told it is due to combustion in the boiler.. therefore I was told only gas safe registered engineers should remove a boiler cover.
The boiler housing is usually kept under negative pressure. When there is a fault, and poisonous carbon monoxide gas is formed, the negative pressure prevents it from leaving the boiler and leaking into the house. The gas is blowed out the chimney instead. Removing the cover is no big deal, but you have to make sure you put it back correctly such that there are no gaps. At least that is how it is done in the Netherlands. we don't have that strict regs here, but not a lot of accidents either.
Most outer boiler covers don't have an issue, and there's no problem in an electrician removing it to access the electrical connections. The issue is in identifying the boilers where removal does compromise the combustion seal. However there's plenty of ways to try and identify this. Internet search the make and model. Ask the client to get in touch with their Gas engineer. Use your engineering prowess, any electrician worth their salt, should have an idea on when somethings creating a seal or not. Seen plenty of outer covers not clipped back on properly after the Landlord Gas safety checks!!!
for that VIR cable, there's a gap in the market for any chemical engineer who can come up with an additive to restore its original mechanical properties.
You buy an expensive pair of stanley pipe plier, they fail in two months. I bought a [air out of Lidl's, their Parkside brand, 3 years ago and I am still using them fine.
During my last assessment the issue of no cpc on the lighting circuit came up. I went with the class 2 fittings etc. No it wasn't permissible apparently. No cpc would hinder the operation of an RCBO. C2 fail no matter the fitting (Apparently)
Not always. The case cover can be a part of the flue system. If someone dies after sparky fiddles with case seal even though it's a separate fault that gasses the punter spark is gonna be doing time for manslaughter
7:40 a bit of a pathetic reason but at some point MK did make (unswitched) sockets that had the mating holes pushed as far up on the faceplate as possible, so that they'd be suitable for skirting board mounting. But, it's unlikely that they were used here. Electricians, why?
I tend to agree with the others - skirting-mounted sockets were most likely originally BS546 ones with straight plugs as opposed to the modern right-angle BS1363 plugs. Mounting the sockets low kept them out of sight and you didn't have to chase up the walls to install them. Bear in mind that chasing was likely done using a lump hammer and bolster chisel back then!
Exactly the same happened with my stanley fatmax, the smallest ones out of 3 sizes they have, got replacement. Not sure if its just brittle or not up to pressure if you squeeze it too much.
I think so, at least in historic properties. Accessibility regs. require sockets to be higher up in new builds there as well and since houses have been mostly stud walls in the US for decades there isn't a lot of chasing to do. Plastering (the proper kind, not skimming over plasterboard) has become a bit of a lost art in the US and owners of historic properties tend to perceive the original plaster as something magical that can't possibly be replaced so they tend to shy away from cutting any holes into plaster walls. Perhaps that's the main reason for keeping sockets at skirting height.
It's not common in the USA, except in really old houses where the owner doesn't want you to cut into the old plaster. Most outlets here are about a foot and a half above the floor.
The horse hair plaster the walls were made of also didn't take kindly to being cut into. It's a lot easier to drill a hole into a wood skirting board, especially if you're flush mounting the sockets. It would be hard to do that in horse hair without the hole crumbling to a larger than desired size.
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A couple of points. Fitting sockets on the skirting board was a fairly common thing back in the day, especially with rewires. The old 5 / 15 amp sockets were on the skirting boards and so the new socket would be fitted in the same place. The skirting boards were bigger in older properties, plus I always used to make sure a plug would fit ok in the new socket. Also many owners wanted as little mess as possible, so no cutting out above the skirting board. I remember the old light pendants were fitted to a wooden patress hence the new ceiling rose had to be big enough to cover the hole in the ceiling. Ancient history 🙂
Interesting to see old vir cabling, I’m surprised it’s still in use.
We are still pulling VIR conduit cables out in New Zealand. Oddly the best condition VIR cables I ever worked on had tags attached at the switchboard saying "Emergency War Grade". I don't know what was altered or left out - but it was as good as the day it was installed.
@@johnsimpson8263 That’s interesting, I wonder if the rubber mix was changed because of wartime shortages? In my experience the VIR I’ve seen ranged from ok( ish ) to awful. It’s just occurred to me that perhaps the climate of the country the VIR is installed in has any effect? Probably not, but it’s just a thought.Thanks for the reply
@@nigelmorse3909 Pulled out plenty of stuffed VIR. And sometimes there was a mix in the same installation of good and bad, though it was clearly installed at the same time. There must have been a variation in mixes from batch to batch. Bottom line, good to have it out.
@Felix McWick Hi. VIR was the forerunner to PVC cable. The insulation was made of vulcanised India rubber, hence the name. One of the drawbacks is that over time the rubber ( usually ) becomes hard and brittle thus rendering the cable useless. I think I’m correct in saying that it was used approximately from 1900s to 1950s. I hope this helps
@@nigelmorse3909 same as all the old wiring here in USA(probably Canada and South America too), especially anything above an ceiling light fixture which baked many years from incandescent bulbs\ or behind receptacles, which have been worn out for 30+ years and overheating!
same for even older back to knob and tube, the rubber hardens and the cloth becomes brittle and when you try to flex it at all? Snap/Crumble/Pop bare wire.
Johnny no neck features prominently in this video! I love it! 🤣
Oh. The guy saying Nice
Good to see more regular content mate! Good work
Cheers mate, we're slowly getting back to more regular content
I think one of the main reasons for socket outlets being installed on skirting boards was partly due to to them usually being rear cable entry and in older properties the wooden skirting boards were spaced off offering a easier route for installation of the cabling and fixing of the socket outlets. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
The reason for the plug sockets on the skirting boards, the old round plug and sockets were mounted on the skirting boards so when people rewired properties they put the new sockets over the old holes to cover the previous damage. The issue of the plug tops not plugging into the socket outlet on the skirtings nowadays has only come to fruit because of the new strain relief fitted to the plug tops
I would like to add to this discussion that it was easy enough to remove the skirting board and hide the wire behind it without doing too much Wall carving for cases of retrofitting electricity into houses that never had it before.
@@imark7777777 from past experience of carrying out rewires on properties like this the skirting boards haven’t been removed to chase out cables that would have been uneconomic these house all had electricity in the past and it was the norm that the old round three pin socket outlets were placed on the skirting board, so when the houses were rewired to save damage to the property the old round sockets were replaced with new square pin socket outlets on the skirting and the cables fed from under the floorboards into the socket which required no wall chasing
good tip moving washing machines etc , get some bacofoil kitchen stuff ,fold 4 into squares put one under each foot of the appliane they are great sliders !!!
Sockets in skirtings! When old houses had electricity installed back in the 1920's and 30's the old round pin sockets were fitted in the skirtings because it was easier to get a fixing in the timber skirting than the lath and plaster wall. When the house was rewired in the 70's and 80's they ripped out the old round pin sockets and fitted new square pin sockets in the same hole, because it was already there. Remember back in the 70's and 80's we used rewireable square pin plugs, that were a wee bit smaller than modern moulded on plugs, so the plugs from the 70’s fitted easily.
question from an american: Can you install the sockets upside-down? Like with the ground pin being on top? Seems like it would make the plugs easier to use with your standards.
Here in North America, the sockets technically have no set orientation and can be installed any direction you see fit. We just usually have the ground on the bottom. Occasionally we'll put the ground on top to denote that that socket is controlled by a switch, but that's not required.
(note that different states and counties can have their own laws that do specify, so some areas don't let you "flip" them, and some require that you do.)
Edit: I forgot I can just look up laws elsewhere. Best I could find is: "A socket-outlet on a wall or similar structure shall be mounted at a height above the floor or any working surface to minimize the risk of mechanical damage to the socket outlet or to an associated plug and its flexible cord which might be caused during insertion, use or withdrawal of the plug."
So if the ground being down would pose a hazard to the cable, then one should install it the other way. Either that, or move the socket, but then you have to patch a hole in wood, which isn't fun.
Forget the stanley grips and get knipex you wont regret it, theyre only about £30 anyway👍
Definitely agree, Knipex are the way to go
Indeed
Knipex have great quality!
Hi Tom,
In regards to the boiler covers, some boilers front casings form part of the combustion seals. In removing it you have compromised the room sealed integrity of the appliance. This seal should be checked when refitted to ensure it’s room sealed preventing any products of combustion entering the room. Most of the time it’s not an issue but it an ass covering exercise.
Great work mate
Agree. 90% the time he will be fine
Was literally about to post this. It's not as big an issue on new boilers as they're mostly negative pressure but older ones with positive pressure cases had the potential to spew CO back into rooms. The only time a sparks should be wiring in a boiler now is if the control board compartment is separate from the combustion seal (which is basically never, given how most of them are using the full front casing as the seal) otherwise they're contravening the gas regulations. Hopefully no one dies but until someone does and a sparks goes down for it most guys will carry on without a care in the world over it.
That’s fire rating disc is just an intumescent seal mate 👌🏼 your right it is that tho
2 videos in under a week - thanks tom!
House pre 1966 didn't have CPC on lighting. In those days you had a single socket in each room . Life in those days were far less complicated than they are today. There was much call for power, mainly you had a radio a tv and lights that was all
Great video! Good to have you back! So whether or not you are allowed to remove the cover of the boiler depends on if the cover is just decorative or whether or not you are breaking the room seal to the combustion chamber. This varies from boiler to boiler. The gas safe register people have a pretty good explanation on this which is defo worth checking out.
Receptacles at baseboard level was done to provide clean looking walls. Also, since it wasn't required to have receptacles spaced at certain distances, extension cords were used quite commonly, and they are easier to hide/run when starting at ground level
Haha, yes one 15 amp socket on the landing and no sockets in the bedrooms. Why would they need a power socket in the bedroom? afterall each bedroom had a fireplace. Maybe a pendant 2way switch to turn off the light when in bed too.
As long as the boiler case you are removing does not break the combustion seal, then you can remove it, if it breaks the combustion seal of the boiler (like some actually do) then you need to be Gassafe registered.
How can you tell if it forms part of the combustion seal or not?
@@trevorcrisp6263 1, the boiler manual, 2 google, 3 if you need a tool to remove it.
@@dazl7954 I do alot of heating wiring and your lucky if the customer has the handbook for the boiler. Iv only ever needed a screwdriver so guessing not come across 1 yet 😂
@@trevorcrisp6263 it is always best to check with the manufactures tech line if no manual, and if google is no help etc. its a legal requirement that the gas appliance manual is left on site, and if its a condensing boiler that you break the combustion seal on, then it can be worse, as you need a Flue Gas Analyser to check it after any form of work is carried out, if this has not been carried out, then under the GIUSP the boiler is classed as unsafe. most electricians do not know this. I have seen many gas boilers wired up incorrectly, not to spec, and the combustion seal broke, but most times a "blind eye" is turned.
@@dazl7954 OK thanks for the info I will take this in to consideration going forward 👍
Hi there Thomas,
I am a new watcher of your channel, it was recommended by Big Clive (when checking out your Milk Frother, and I am enjoy listening to the different terminology between our Countries, I live in Australia and you obviously the UK (I was born in Stoke-on-Trent (Western Coyney) a long time ago and came over as my Dad was an Underground Deputy in the Coal Mines). I, too, am a Leco by trade also, I worked in the Power Stations (Industrial) as well as Commercial and Residential as a side business (Contractor).
But yes the old plaster board being a little more brittle than the new stuff, that as well as the way they used to frame a home, meant that when electricity became available to everyone, they put the power outlets on the skirting boards as the plaster board would never of held up to the Inserting and Removal of plugs, specially when people were not used to doing that. At least that's what I was told when I was a young apprentice.
Oh, one other thing as you were installing new lights, and you mentioned there being no Earth wire, I was thinking WOW, as in Australia it has been the rule that you MUST Provide an Earth wire at every Light point, to allow for future changes. So I was surprised at that.
Seeing as our Wiring Rules Bible was mimicked on the Irish Rules a long time ago, as they were some of the strictest rules about. So a little bit of trivia for you.
I wish you and your business Well in the future.
Regards,
Gordon
With some old boilers the case forms part of the combustion seal
Plugs used to be well less bulky & didn't have the massive plastic strain relief bits on, just a small flex, so could go pretty much right up to the skirting & be nicely hidden away
Love you video's, nice seeing how different things are over there to us here in Aus
The skirting board thing is historic , pre 1940 stuff where done like that but the cable did not come out the bottom.
Turn the socket plate upside down, now shit fits.
With Nest it's best to use Open Therm if it's available on the boiler.
Tom try opening the washing machine door and using the top of the opening to slightly lift the front of washer while you drag it out. Makes it so much easier especially on vinyl which drags and rips easy.
Couple of old pool cues. Hike it up on them and roll it through and off.
Nagy your really spoiling us
Good to see you back Nagy. If you looking for a good set of pliers/grips, choose knipex.
Keep up the good work my man. Greetings from South Africa
Cheers pal
@@thomasnagy you're a worldwide superstar youtuber Tom
Great content Tom👍
Great video tho Mr Nagy! Glad to see more videos coming back
The Gaydio prank was class lol
No it wasn’t.
@@SeanDerwin1979 Bet you're fun at parties
@@paulmatthews5470 huge fun. Drink anyone under the table, tell great jokes and always up for the bag. It’s just I don’t go to children’s parties. I’m not fun at those.
@@SeanDerwin1979 cool
@@tx5530 here we go again… my on the register? What is one of those. Rhetorical, you lack the IQ for the subtleties.
Top tip for moving washing machines back under the units. Put some washing up liquid on the back two feet and it will slide straight in.
Tom the reason the plugs sockets are on the skirting is because pug For lamps or upside down on the old 3a
Squirt abit of washing up liquid on the washing machine feet and it slides in and out like a dream 👌
Never really thought of that before, I'll give it a try next time
Also can use a bit of furniture polish spray a little on the floor
@@thomasnagy and to pull the machine out in the first place, just open the door and put your hands inside the drum to get some purchase
a bit of hardboard i've found works to allow the feet to slide and its something you could carry with you (hell even one of them plastic carpet protectors cut down would work i guess)
Getting the apprentice to do it works well too
Another upload from the master of electrics? Nice!
I’m a 3rd year apprentice now as a spark. You spoke about removing the boiler cover. My boss has taught me to take the cover off for testing as majority of plumbers are think they can do a good job wiring it. That’s my view
Honestly that's not the best idea. Testing it from the spur is fine in proving an electrical circuit. Aside from the combustion chamber topic, anything goes wrong with the boiler, you get the blame. Seen many sparks come unstuck by leaving fridges and freezers unplugged in the noble quest of an insulation resistance test.
@@idi0tdetectioninprogress In my opinion the test should be done at the boiler in order to determine if it is earthed. I can understand testing at the spur. But in older homes nowadays it’s normally spurred off the ring final
@@lukegrocott1855 As you say, you're an apprentice, and well some of us are not!
@@idi0tdetectioninprogress Fair point. If you were to do the 2391 in the spec it says a test should be carried out at the appliance. Same for the cooker. Because you’re fully qualified doesn’t mean anything in my eyes. You’ve got your tickets well done. Don’t say apprentices are brain dead because you’ve been there as well as every other spark.
@@lukegrocott1855 Honestly, you need to speak with your tutors while you're still training. Benefit from it whist they are at your convenience.
Some boiler cases are part of the combustion chamber and the seal can be damaged when removing the case. But the boiler in this video the case is not part of the combust chamber. If there is a rubber or foam strip on the case then that’s the combustion chamber. 👍👍👍👍 great content btw
wow, hope those aren't in production anymore, sounds like a design flaw.
thats with mainly old commercial boilers though if im wrong no?
Some ideal boiler within the last few years have a seal on the cover
@@richardmckenna9702 well that's not... Ideal 😏
I apologise for that 😐
@07:30 I think most sockets were positions to be 'out of the way' in the 50s + (until the 80s even?). Like it was considered an eye sore that a lamp, extension cored or vacuum was connected to but the electrical needs of then are different than now.
We take boiler covers off for r1+r2. We disconnect the earth inside the boiler so there's no parallel paths. But they are boilers we know, potterton and baxi, where the flue incoming and outgoing is internally sealed. However, my boiler is an ideal and when you remove the front cover, you notice the incoming flue is open inside the outer casing - the outer casing has a seal around it. So technically you're interfering with the flue of a gas appliance. Not sure on the exact regulations though.
I started work with the Post Office in the early 70,s. We didnt have electric drills let alone hammer drills in the early days. It was either a rawl chisel or hammer and chisel the plug the wall with wooden wedge. Any existing wooden surface that could be used was a godsend. Can only think the electricians of the day did the same and used the skirting.
My best find was an extension bell screwed to a piano. I kid you not.
10:25 water pump pliers , had a one fail in the same way . Switched to the slip adjustable ones without the button .
I've had the same set of Record slip-joint pliers for the last 35 years, never given me an issue, once.
Ahh now that is the tom nagy style video we enjoy 🙂
More to come ;)
Nice
If you wet the floor, the washing machine should move much easier
Thanks for another video so soon !
The V-Pro dimmers are trailing edge dimmers, ie. they chop off the end of the half-sine wave rather than the start of it.
I don't know about other makes of "suitable for LEDs" dimmers.
Them Integral Evo fire fittings are double insulated even though they do for some reason run an earth wire to the fitting they are in fact class 2
Even here in the US, Stanley used to be decent quality, but now they're nothing but a name that old timers remember, slapped on to chinesium crap.
Here in Russia we've got some newspeak stuff happening with American brands. Some internet stores and marketplaces portray these brands as if they're still somewhat made in America. Sometimes it is just something innocent like small letters somewhere down below "Birthplace of the brand USA". Although often it is just says that it is USA without any explanation whether it was made in USA or the brand belongs to holder in USA.
Stanley are pretty soft stuff these days. Draper too. Should be given to small children, anyone else is too strong
Stanley merged with black + decker in 2010 and re now called "Stanley Black & Decker" they also own DeWalt
Cover on some boilers all to do with ventilation for combustion of gas.
Think of it like a tiler taking off a socket off the wall then putting it back . No problem at all😅
The Kangoo looks awesome
Cheers pal, the review will be coming soon ;)
Of course, when power sockets were installed in skirting boards is was often because the place was built before electricity was available. And the plugs were rewireable, so needed less space for the tail at the bottom.
Should use trailing-edge dimmers for LED lighting
pretty sure the V-Pros are trailing edge by default?
@@edc1569 installed a vpro in my house last week and it had it by default
Didn't see your comment before I commented...
As far as gas is concerned just don't play with any ignition control or gas carrying parts! www.gassaferegister.co.uk/media/1449/who-can-legally-work-on-a-gas-appliance-factsheet.pdf
@@edc1569 Yes V-Pro are trailing edge by default. You can switch them to leading edge though I don't see why you would want to. There are also two trailing edge modes, though I struggled to see any difference between them and the instructions don't say.
Another thing with sockets in skirting boards is that of course no appliances came with fitted plugs, so there was no external molding where the cable left the plug - making it "more" practical for the cable to have a 90 degree bend immediately below the plug.
The reason I believe for sockets on skirting boards is that it was a good fixing( eg it may of been Lath and plaster) or if it was a stone wall they had to hack the box out with a hammer and bolster so much easier to fix to skirting plus no moulded plug tops back then.
Had a pair of them Stanley's aswell. Useless. Knipex alligator two years still perfect
GOOD WORK TOM WERE SINGING FROM THE SAME HYMN SHEET
WHY ARE YOU SCREAMING?
Forget Stanley mate , buy Knipex cobra pliers once and you'll never go back , you'll actually wonder how you managed to do without it before , real talk 👍
Nice to see content resuming mate 👍
Glad you enjoyed
Brick houses and hand tools meant that cutting channels was basically out of the question, which meant punching holes and hoping the wall was double brick. Often if you try to replace those wires you discover that they were put in as the wall was built and are now cemented in place. So often at the time the place was built outlets were put in skirting boards, and any reprofit often leaves or blanks non-skirting board outlets and even switches just because anything else is a huge pain. I have light switches in the frame of my front door where the wiring goes straight into the mortar between bricks - I dare not even touch them because there's no access to the screws on the terminals.
It isn't down to different rubber, its because of heat. You see it when you pull up floor boards and one piece of cable has pliable parts and brittle parts. The brittle parts tend to be where its running through the joists and close to hot pipes.
In the states they also put the outlets in the baseboards, but only till the 60s, I think.
That seems to be about when it stopped, though it was already uncommon by that point in new construction. It was simply easier to put them there when buildings were retrofitted for electricity or extra outlets/circuits were added, especially with horse hair plaster in play. That stuff doesn't take kindly to being disturbed.
Some old houses in the US have the outlets in the floor. Great when they have a Bakelite face plate on them that breaks the first time someone accidentally sets a chair leg on it. The jackass that rewired my house, built in 1921, rewired in the 90s, left the outlet for the refrigerator in the floor. None of the other outlets were in the floor, just that one. On ceramic tile. After about the third time the faceplate got broken, I finally yanked that outlet and moved it into the wall where it should have been in the first place. Now there's a hole in the floor, but it's under the fridge, so screw it until the kitchen gets remodeled.
Good video Thomas, we'd love to come down and do a collab video with you, I've been watching you from the start, and you've inspired me to make my own channel which is doing well now.
Keep up the great content again and great to see you making regular videos again!
i love your videos, at least you have when you work, after 35 years as an electrician in the states here, residential work is quite boring and frustrating at times, i prefer commercial work, thanks for the vids,..
Good work Tom you are realy good and keep trying nomater what happens keep up the work
Thanks 👍
Most washing machines only have rollers at the back, you gotta get some lift on the front.
we’re M&E and the reason why the the gas engineers get a “hard on” with us sparks removing the cover on boilers. Is that some a a sealed unit
Typically, LED dimmers are rated from 0 Watts up to whatever their range is, so are ideal for just one or two LEDs.
Gas Safe told me there are two boiler types, one where the cover is part of the combustion chamber so has a seal as part of the cover, two is a cover that is not part of the seal. They said it's perfectly legal and safe to remove the latter but not the former, as that's gas works.
Note that rubber multi core cables were TRS, whereas the singles were VRI, some of which contains asbestos, see: electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2021/84-march-2021/estimating-the-age-of-an-electrical-installation/
English TRS has an outer sheath, VRI woven cloth sheath = both use rubber insulation, go brittle and are well past their designed use by date! Australia TRS and VRI = VRI!
Great videoI love watching TH-cam channel l have a pair of knipex and I put them to work and they still work fine
Two videos in a week😳 Give us a break Tom will ya, talk about overload 😂👍👍
I did like the autopsy of your coffèe frother on bigclives channel
sockets in skirting boards?
Saw one like that before, found some old newspapers behind the skirting and it was from 1903!
So, don't think they cut those sockets out in the 80's. . . maybe the 1880's
Also found out, the guys that used to run the bell wires around properties and that - like from Downton Abbey where they ring the servants - those guys were the first sparkies. . .
whodathink 😁
Why is the red and yellow reflective strips necessary on your vans ? I can understand it on the bucket van where you’re doing highway works, but why is it needed on the other ones ? 🤔
Usually means someone involved with the regulations has a company that sells reflective strips
The other vans might be required for highways work, makes sense to have them all done so any van can do any job
Chevrons on the back of your van, Battenburg is the same as down the side of Vosa, Police, Ambulance & fire vehicles (Squares, like the Battenburg cake)
Sockets were on skiting as furniture was free standing and you only had a socket or 2 per room. It was easier to install a socket on the skirting, as there was a cavity behind.
I think the reason for the skirting sockets were that if they are close to the floor that they wouldn't be seen or hit my chairs as those old chairs and sofa's were all high off the ground.
the lower the socket, the less wire 😂
just mount the sockets upside down and everything is fine :)
Those skirting boards are way older than 1970s. Maybe 1940s or 1950s, when it was the custom to mount power sockets in them.
Any reason in particular you're moving towards street lighting? I've always heard the jobs and the pay are crap for it.
Gaydio prank was funny, But 0:29 Tom humping a washing machine even came with sound effects lol.
theres a seal on the cover of some boilers and a swath of gas engineers think that everyone other than them is incapable of telling whether a seal is fucked or not.
I think its funny the customer is worried about budget but they are installing downlights and nest thermostats lol
That gets them higher rents. Safer wiring in the walls doesn't. It's all about the money.
NEST, oh look we can control it via our sheeple devices (sure, so can your hacker neighbors and half 1/3rd of the worlds population, if they see fit).
some of us could majorly break things, but choose to work hard at curbing and correcting the stooge collegiate degree, very poorly made and broken products, preferably before they damage too much. but we're outnumbered heavily by idiocies. no worries, things will come into a major focus again sooner than later.
Hi Tom, with regards to the boiler.. i was told it is due to combustion in the boiler.. therefore I was told only gas safe registered engineers should remove a boiler cover.
The boiler housing is usually kept under negative pressure. When there is a fault, and poisonous carbon monoxide gas is formed, the negative pressure prevents it from leaving the boiler and leaking into the house. The gas is blowed out the chimney instead.
Removing the cover is no big deal, but you have to make sure you put it back correctly such that there are no gaps. At least that is how it is done in the Netherlands. we don't have that strict regs here, but not a lot of accidents either.
Most outer boiler covers don't have an issue, and there's no problem in an electrician removing it to access the electrical connections.
The issue is in identifying the boilers where removal does compromise the combustion seal.
However there's plenty of ways to try and identify this.
Internet search the make and model.
Ask the client to get in touch with their Gas engineer.
Use your engineering prowess, any electrician worth their salt, should have an idea on when somethings creating a seal or not.
Seen plenty of outer covers not clipped back on properly after the Landlord Gas safety checks!!!
Are you going to install a twinflex system in the unit?
for that VIR cable, there's a gap in the market for any chemical engineer who can come up with an additive to restore its original mechanical properties.
Yeah, it's called tear it out and replace it, that shit ended it's life in the 1980's, if not before.
My Stanley grips did the same. Ended up buying Milwaukee ones
You buy an expensive pair of stanley pipe plier, they fail in two months. I bought a [air out of Lidl's, their Parkside brand, 3 years ago and I am still using them fine.
During my last assessment the issue of no cpc on the lighting circuit came up. I went with the class 2 fittings etc. No it wasn't permissible apparently. No cpc would hinder the operation of an RCBO. C2 fail no matter the fitting (Apparently)
tell them you will not work in a "drop and roll" slum, until after they've paid cleaners to empty and sanitize the dump.
for your own safety ;)
They will have taken the money out of the deposit for it anyway, so it's not unreasonable to want it cleaned before doing work in there
old skirting has a gap behind it..And they would of had only a radio and a table lamp to use, thats one radio for the whole house..
Recommend knipex cobras for grips tom 👍
The radio prank was brilliant 😂😂😂
Yes you can take the cover off a boiler its no big deal its just a plastic cover fore protection and the looks
Not always. The case cover can be a part of the flue system. If someone dies after sparky fiddles with case seal even though it's a separate fault that gasses the punter spark is gonna be doing time for manslaughter
7:40 a bit of a pathetic reason but at some point MK did make (unswitched) sockets that had the mating holes pushed as far up on the faceplate as possible, so that they'd be suitable for skirting board mounting. But, it's unlikely that they were used here. Electricians, why?
I tend to agree with the others - skirting-mounted sockets were most likely originally BS546 ones with straight plugs as opposed to the modern right-angle BS1363 plugs. Mounting the sockets low kept them out of sight and you didn't have to chase up the walls to install them. Bear in mind that chasing was likely done using a lump hammer and bolster chisel back then!
Blimey. Even Tom has the occasional visit from the "F ck up fairies", then!
Under the regulations if you remove the cover on a boiler you must be gas safe registered
Top tip my man....2 lines of fairy liquid in line with them stupid feet and it will slip in like a pro...oi oi
Exactly the same happened with my stanley fatmax, the smallest ones out of 3 sizes they have, got replacement. Not sure if its just brittle or not up to pressure if you squeeze it too much.
Electrician taking a cover off a boiler to do any electrical work is more qualified than a plumber,simple.
I thought the Baxi boiler (dependent) is Opentherm compatible but you just put the Nest in with regular switching.
I am going so they didn't have to chase out the walls as much. I believe they still do it in the USA.
I think so, at least in historic properties. Accessibility regs. require sockets to be higher up in new builds there as well and since houses have been mostly stud walls in the US for decades there isn't a lot of chasing to do. Plastering (the proper kind, not skimming over plasterboard) has become a bit of a lost art in the US and owners of historic properties tend to perceive the original plaster as something magical that can't possibly be replaced so they tend to shy away from cutting any holes into plaster walls. Perhaps that's the main reason for keeping sockets at skirting height.
It's not common in the USA, except in really old houses where the owner doesn't want you to cut into the old plaster. Most outlets here are about a foot and a half above the floor.
Digging those pants 🤣
The reason for sockets on skirting was easier to fix to a wooden back rather than drilling and chasing wall
Is the dimmer switch something I can do myself? I've replaced a socket before but I am a complete beginner.
Love binman trousers 👖
Sockets on the Skirting... To prevent damage to the very popular wall paper of the day..
The horse hair plaster the walls were made of also didn't take kindly to being cut into. It's a lot easier to drill a hole into a wood skirting board, especially if you're flush mounting the sockets. It would be hard to do that in horse hair without the hole crumbling to a larger than desired size.
The sockets were fitted on wood as hammer drills had not been invented, and the only method of fixing to solid wall was to use `a Rawldrill and hammer