I'm a cyclist, no ebike. Seeing someone ride who might not otherwise because the motor assist makes riding plausible is one thing. Seeing some person under 30 trying to wiz past everyone because the motor allows him (normally a guy) to ride at speeds us roadies had to train to earn? It smacks differently.
Definitely bad form and that is enough to get shunned by the community. I'm mostly a MTB rider and love to be 10 miles out in the middle of nowhere with 2.5K feet of climbing left. This is a place of serenity and the few people I see, riding or running under their own power have my respect.
I’m 57 and ride MTB, I regularly see people 20-30 years younger than coming up a hill on single track and I pull over to let them finish their climb and they casually pedal past on their e-bike…that being said…there’s a reason there’s thousands of videos with people rationalizing owning an e-bike.
Nearly all teenagers in my area, if they are on two wheels they're on class 2 or 3 ebikes and specifically the kind that lean into full on moped territory. Some are on actual e-motos like the Surrons. My wife and I asked a few of these kids if they'd ever or would ever ride a regular bicycle and just for got this blank confused look from them lol. Sadly, it looks like the fully human powered bicycle is going to become very niche in a few more years. Some bike shops in my area have switched to carrying only ebikes and a couple others, the analog bikes are sitting there collecting dust.
@ just wow. Sad really. Building endurance and speed are truly exhilarating and build health. E-bike riding can increase riding which is good, but I’d think the physical development is slower.
Is it cheating? Yes and no… it’s complicated and depends what each person considers cheating. In a race, yes, it’s cheating just like doping because you are using an unfair method to obtain an advantage. For commuting, no, because you are using a motor as an alternative to get from point A to point B like a car. If you have a disability and need aid then an ebike will help those who normally can not experience the joy of riding get out and ride so e-bikes are not the problem, it’s the rider. Many ebike riders never rode analog bikes and never developed the skills and etiquette of cycling beforehand and can be rude to pedestrians and other riders by blowing by closely to them at 35 mph without any warning on small bike trails. They never ride on the streets like they are supposed to because they are scared of cars-again because they never cycle before-and bully their way on sidewalks. I see this everyday and witness more than enough close calls with people riding surrons with no helmet. All I can do is shake my head.
@cycologist7069 exactly. These "ebike" are more like escooters and until we have laws to properly classify them then they will continue to fall through the cracks. Surrons and Arial are only meant to be ridden off road but I see these on bike trails--both pave and unpaved--every day here.
I still occasionally ride regular bikes along with my e-bikes. It's never bothered me when an e-bike passes me while on a std bike. I don't get upset with motorcycles passing me, so why should an e-bike bother me.
At 3:03 you explain that your e-bike gives you help and makes it feel like you are in better shape than you actually are, which is why some think this is "cheating". In my experience all around Boulder, e-bike riders are some, but not all, of the most disrespectful and most dangerous riders. There are plenty of moms/dads picking up their kids after school or folks carrying their groceries from the store. I'm all for those folks. However, there are many of the others who make cycling even more dangerous than it already is. No helmets, no knowledge of the rules of the roads/paths, crazy, out of control fast.
I don't currently own an ebike but have test ridden a few and did a couple e-bike tours on vacation in Mexico. They are a blast for sure, but I personally still get more enjoyment and satisfaction riding a regular road bike. I think those perfectly able bodied people who ebike ONLY are missing out on that . To each their own. If I ever get one, it would be more for a replacement of car trips rather than a bike enhancement. I know a couple guys who work commute on an ebike but when they get home they throw on the spandex and hop on their analog road bike. Since you mentioned going up hill. I'm 63 and not super fit but working on it and getting better. When I'm climbing and an ebike rider passes me up I do get sort of annoyed. I know it shouldn't (the rider was not close passing me or riding recklessly in any manner) but it just does. When a better fit, skilled and faster rider passes me up on said hill, I'm more like "Atta boy (or girl)!!". Even if that cyclist is going faster than the ebike rider.
Wow I didn't even consider the strava thing until you mentioned it. I am guessing that's a big part of the stigma... In any case, I LOVE E-bikes, and I love seeing a lot of older people joining the cyclists again. As well as helping unfit people like me get back into fitness.
I would say if you are using the bike for some practical purpose like commuting it's basically commonsense. If an e-bike makes it possible for someone to get out there that otherwise couldn't , maybe join in with friends, that's fine too. My wife has been recovering from back surgery for several years now and when she was struggling with riding her bike, an E-bike was an option we were considering. Last spring she managed to join our son and I conventionally, but it seemed a solid choice for a long time.
I think you touched on something when you talked about speed on trails. I think the ebikes allow people to go faster than they should in certain circumstances. Many ebike riders are not experienced cyclists and they are not able to react properly with the faster speeds. This can cause situations where they are endangering other trail users. A regular cyclist that is going 20MPH probably knows how to handle it better than an ebike user that is going 20MPH and therefore more able to handle traffic and obstacles. In either case, going 20MPH on trails is not advisable for any cyclist. I always tell people that trails are the most dangerous places to ride because of other users; walkers, runners, dogs, etc. Unfortunately, irresponsible ebike users going 28MPH on the trails give a bad name to all of the responsible users and cause the non-cycling public to call for a ban on ebikes, which is bad for the sport we all enjoy.
It's been my observation😊 while mountain biking on my class one e-bike that beginners really don't come up on to the actual technical mountain bike trails. I do go uphill faster than I did on my manual bike, probably 3 to 5 mph rather than one mile per hour that I could do on my manual bike. Downhill speeds are the same. The big difference is I can keep mountain bike riding at my favorite area on my e-bike but I had to quit on my manual bike since it would take me a week to recover and it definitely was not fun or enjoyable or pleasant. As all my fellow riders, who are in their sixties and seventies say, it put the fun back in mountain biking and it keeps us out there instead of watching TV!😮
Road biker here without an e-bike. I don't get the hate or jealousy. You're correct on KOM"s, etc. but otherwise, who cares, ride your own ride imo. My cycling club allows ebikes and I think it's great if someone who otherwise won't join us can come have a good time. Granted, it's nice if they pull in headwinds to help us legs-only powered riders, ,lol.
I think there's worry from some that e-bikes will eventually make regular bikes obsolete or very niche. Whether or not that will happen remains to be seen, but it does kinda seem that way in my area. If that happens I'd be lying to say that wouldn't be disheartening.
There is ebike class races but the thing with that there are mods for ebikes that unrestricts the bike. I have not seen any pre ride inspection to see if there is modification of these ebikes.
I agree with your point of view. I'm 60 and will eventually get an eBike. But the only "cheaters" I see are the young guys on eBikes who talk like they are are "mountain bikers" and go on about how great mountain biking is and their accomplishments...blah, blah, blah. It actually takes time to learn the culture and how to be a cyclist. The best eBikers are the ones you don't realize are riding one. (unless you hear it).
Not cheating, but certainly not the same experience as analogue. Where I live (very hilly) an e-bike allows folks who wouldn't otherwise ride, ride. As a current analogue rider, I can support that, and if there comes a day where an e-bike is necessary to keep riding, i have no problem making that choice.
Go out on two separate, same temperature days for 3 hour rides one on an assist bike & one on a regular bike and compare the difference in the calories burned…
No excercise is a myth. I'm 70 and have lost 20kgs since I got my ebike. My health has improved beyond any expectations. I live in a hilly area and would not have been riding at all if on a normal bike.
The notion of "cheating" while bicycling long predates e-bikes. When a casual rider ever decided to join a more racing oriented bike club, the basic concept they are first taught is that coasting is cheating your workout, and you must keep pedaling and keep the pace up to participate in "real" bicycling. In other words, what you get out of it is based on what you put into it. "Cheating" in that case means you aren't getting the workout needed to build your racing ability. That concept of cheating has always been around, and it's why pro bikers can get annoyed stuck behind casual riders who don't have the discipline to keep pedaling at pace. The same principle applies to e-bikes. If you set the pedal assist to its lowest setting, with basically enough powered input to compensate for the excessively heavy e-bike, you can still ride the bike as if it was a top notch carbon-fiber racing bicycle, - if you put in the work. It's all about keeping continuous pressure while pedaling, with intervals of high effort to lower effort just like you would on a regular bike. That way you can still get a similar workout. The net advantage to doing so is simply to have e-power on tap when one needs it, like at starts and stops, or at any other point in which one doesn't want to or can't struggle through a tough leg of the trip. This is why e-bike IMO are ideal for elderly people, it's ideal for aging bodies which can give out unexpectedly for no obvious reason. The powered aspect simply allows one to moderate the work and terrain to the level that is acceptable to an aging body. There is no cheating unless you are just joy riding rather than pedaling for exercise.
I fully agree with you. Where these bikes annoy me is when the casuals who are young and able bodied (unfortunately they are a majority here in Chicago) want to pull up to us, the roadies. It's very side eye inducing for me.
The cheating thing is so stupid cheating who? I ride for myself, not for anyone else . We are not racing each other so its not anyone else's business. I have 4 bikes and one emountain bike l just bought 3 weeks ago and it's fun . You made some good points in your video.
E-bikes are perfect for people who's fitness level isn't sufficient to ride a conventional bike. I say to each his/her own. It all comes down to what you want to get out of your ride... challenging yourself using a conventional bike can be good for weight management and cardio health.
I'm a cyclist, no ebike. Seeing someone ride who might not otherwise because the motor assist makes riding plausible is one thing. Seeing some person under 30 trying to wiz past everyone because the motor allows him (normally a guy) to ride at speeds us roadies had to train to earn? It smacks differently.
Definitely bad form and that is enough to get shunned by the community. I'm mostly a MTB rider and love to be 10 miles out in the middle of nowhere with 2.5K feet of climbing left. This is a place of serenity and the few people I see, riding or running under their own power have my respect.
I’m 57 and ride MTB, I regularly see people 20-30 years younger than coming up a hill on single track and I pull over to let them finish their climb and they casually pedal past on their e-bike…that being said…there’s a reason there’s thousands of videos with people rationalizing owning an e-bike.
Nearly all teenagers in my area, if they are on two wheels they're on class 2 or 3 ebikes and specifically the kind that lean into full on moped territory. Some are on actual e-motos like the Surrons. My wife and I asked a few of these kids if they'd ever or would ever ride a regular bicycle and just for got this blank confused look from them lol. Sadly, it looks like the fully human powered bicycle is going to become very niche in a few more years. Some bike shops in my area have switched to carrying only ebikes and a couple others, the analog bikes are sitting there collecting dust.
@ just wow. Sad really. Building endurance and speed are truly exhilarating and build health. E-bike riding can increase riding which is good, but I’d think the physical development is slower.
@@DamascusHarris For sure, but that’s just not how kids see it.
Is it cheating? Yes and no… it’s complicated and depends what each person considers cheating. In a race, yes, it’s cheating just like doping because you are using an unfair method to obtain an advantage. For commuting, no, because you are using a motor as an alternative to get from point A to point B like a car.
If you have a disability and need aid then an ebike will help those who normally can not experience the joy of riding get out and ride so e-bikes are not the problem, it’s the rider.
Many ebike riders never rode analog bikes and never developed the skills and etiquette of cycling beforehand and can be rude to pedestrians and other riders by blowing by closely to them at 35 mph without any warning on small bike trails. They never ride on the streets like they are supposed to because they are scared of cars-again because they never cycle before-and bully their way on sidewalks. I see this everyday and witness more than enough close calls with people riding surrons with no helmet. All I can do is shake my head.
These are great points!
If they are going 35mph, they are on something that's not legal. Or at least doesn't fall into any of the 3 classes.
@cycologist7069 exactly. These "ebike" are more like escooters and until we have laws to properly classify them then they will continue to fall through the cracks. Surrons and Arial are only meant to be ridden off road but I see these on bike trails--both pave and unpaved--every day here.
@@duyle557 I even see them on sidewalks.
I still occasionally ride regular bikes along with my e-bikes. It's never bothered me when an e-bike passes me while on a std bike. I don't get upset with motorcycles passing me, so why should an e-bike bother me.
At 3:03 you explain that your e-bike gives you help and makes it feel like you are in better shape than you actually are, which is why some think this is "cheating". In my experience all around Boulder, e-bike riders are some, but not all, of the most disrespectful and most dangerous riders. There are plenty of moms/dads picking up their kids after school or folks carrying their groceries from the store. I'm all for those folks. However, there are many of the others who make cycling even more dangerous than it already is. No helmets, no knowledge of the rules of the roads/paths, crazy, out of control fast.
I don't currently own an ebike but have test ridden a few and did a couple e-bike tours on vacation in Mexico. They are a blast for sure, but I personally still get more enjoyment and satisfaction riding a regular road bike. I think those perfectly able bodied people who ebike ONLY are missing out on that . To each their own. If I ever get one, it would be more for a replacement of car trips rather than a bike enhancement. I know a couple guys who work commute on an ebike but when they get home they throw on the spandex and hop on their analog road bike.
Since you mentioned going up hill. I'm 63 and not super fit but working on it and getting better. When I'm climbing and an ebike rider passes me up I do get sort of annoyed. I know it shouldn't (the rider was not close passing me or riding recklessly in any manner) but it just does. When a better fit, skilled and faster rider passes me up on said hill, I'm more like "Atta boy (or girl)!!". Even if that cyclist is going faster than the ebike rider.
Wow I didn't even consider the strava thing until you mentioned it. I am guessing that's a big part of the stigma...
In any case, I LOVE E-bikes, and I love seeing a lot of older people joining the cyclists again. As well as helping unfit people like me get back into fitness.
Thanks for watching 👍🏻
I would say if you are using the bike for some practical purpose like commuting it's basically commonsense.
If an e-bike makes it possible for someone to get out there that otherwise couldn't , maybe join in with friends, that's fine too. My wife has been recovering from back surgery for several years now and when she was struggling with riding her bike, an E-bike was an option we were considering. Last spring she managed to join our son and I conventionally, but it seemed a solid choice for a long time.
I think you touched on something when you talked about speed on trails. I think the ebikes allow people to go faster than they should in certain circumstances. Many ebike riders are not experienced cyclists and they are not able to react properly with the faster speeds. This can cause situations where they are endangering other trail users. A regular cyclist that is going 20MPH probably knows how to handle it better than an ebike user that is going 20MPH and therefore more able to handle traffic and obstacles. In either case, going 20MPH on trails is not advisable for any cyclist. I always tell people that trails are the most dangerous places to ride because of other users; walkers, runners, dogs, etc. Unfortunately, irresponsible ebike users going 28MPH on the trails give a bad name to all of the responsible users and cause the non-cycling public to call for a ban on ebikes, which is bad for the sport we all enjoy.
It's been my observation😊 while mountain biking on my class one e-bike that beginners really don't come up on to the actual technical mountain bike trails.
I do go uphill faster than I did on my manual bike, probably 3 to 5 mph rather than one mile per hour that I could do on my manual bike. Downhill speeds are the same.
The big difference is I can keep mountain bike riding at my favorite area on my e-bike but I had to quit on my manual bike since it would take me a week to recover and it definitely was not fun or enjoyable or pleasant.
As all my fellow riders, who are in their sixties and seventies say, it put the fun back in mountain biking and it keeps us out there instead of watching TV!😮
For this old guy, I'm cheating life and overcoming my declining max heart rate limits.
Road biker here without an e-bike. I don't get the hate or jealousy. You're correct on KOM"s, etc. but otherwise, who cares, ride your own ride imo. My cycling club allows ebikes and I think it's great if someone who otherwise won't join us can come have a good time. Granted, it's nice if they pull in headwinds to help us legs-only powered riders, ,lol.
I think there's worry from some that e-bikes will eventually make regular bikes obsolete or very niche. Whether or not that will happen remains to be seen, but it does kinda seem that way in my area. If that happens I'd be lying to say that wouldn't be disheartening.
There is ebike class races but the thing with that there are mods for ebikes that unrestricts the bike. I have not seen any pre ride inspection to see if there is modification of these ebikes.
I agree with your point of view. I'm 60 and will eventually get an eBike. But the only "cheaters" I see are the young guys on eBikes who talk like they are are "mountain bikers" and go on about how great mountain biking is and their accomplishments...blah, blah, blah. It actually takes time to learn the culture and how to be a cyclist. The best eBikers are the ones you don't realize are riding one. (unless you hear it).
Not cheating, but certainly not the same experience as analogue. Where I live (very hilly) an e-bike allows folks who wouldn't otherwise ride, ride. As a current analogue rider, I can support that, and if there comes a day where an e-bike is necessary to keep riding, i have no problem making that choice.
Go out on two separate, same temperature days for 3 hour rides one on an assist bike & one on a regular bike and compare the difference in the calories burned…
Probably would include some sort of effort qualifier too.
No excercise is a myth. I'm 70 and have lost 20kgs since I got my ebike. My health has improved beyond any expectations. I live in a hilly area and would not have been riding at all if on a normal bike.
That’s awesome to read! Well done!
The notion of "cheating" while bicycling long predates e-bikes. When a casual rider ever decided to join a more racing oriented bike club, the basic concept they are first taught is that coasting is cheating your workout, and you must keep pedaling and keep the pace up to participate in "real" bicycling. In other words, what you get out of it is based on what you put into it. "Cheating" in that case means you aren't getting the workout needed to build your racing ability. That concept of cheating has always been around, and it's why pro bikers can get annoyed stuck behind casual riders who don't have the discipline to keep pedaling at pace. The same principle applies to e-bikes. If you set the pedal assist to its lowest setting, with basically enough powered input to compensate for the excessively heavy e-bike, you can still ride the bike as if it was a top notch carbon-fiber racing bicycle, - if you put in the work. It's all about keeping continuous pressure while pedaling, with intervals of high effort to lower effort just like you would on a regular bike. That way you can still get a similar workout. The net advantage to doing so is simply to have e-power on tap when one needs it, like at starts and stops, or at any other point in which one doesn't want to or can't struggle through a tough leg of the trip. This is why e-bike IMO are ideal for elderly people, it's ideal for aging bodies which can give out unexpectedly for no obvious reason. The powered aspect simply allows one to moderate the work and terrain to the level that is acceptable to an aging body. There is no cheating unless you are just joy riding rather than pedaling for exercise.
I fully agree with you. Where these bikes annoy me is when the casuals who are young and able bodied (unfortunately they are a majority here in Chicago) want to pull up to us, the roadies. It's very side eye inducing for me.
The cheating thing is so stupid cheating who? I ride for myself, not for anyone else . We are not racing each other so its not anyone else's business. I have 4 bikes and one emountain bike l just bought 3 weeks ago and it's fun . You made some good points in your video.
E-bikes are perfect for people who's fitness level isn't sufficient to ride a conventional bike. I say to each his/her own. It all comes down to what you want to get out of your ride... challenging yourself using a conventional bike can be good for weight management and cardio health.
Totally agree...thanks for watching!
@@reicheld590 Some argue that if one doesn’t have the fitness, they should still ride regular bike and build up to better fitness.
Only cheating if your racing!
Ebikes for strolling is good.
when someone yells at you that's a cheater bike, just yell back a say their wife is a cheater.
😄😄😄