Level mechanics suck! Mistakes in game design and thoughts toward fixing them
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- About mistakes in game design in table-top RPGs and especially video games. Applies to some degree to video games of different types as well, like FPS games. Could be useful to game designers and even writers of fiction.
The contents are divided into the following sections by main topic
(but see timestamps below):
1. Rules are the physics of the game world
Problems with level mechanics
2. Worldbuilding and story
Magic and equivalent tech
3. Weapons, armor, & other equipment
4. Video game mechanics
Games mentioned in this video:
- Elder Scrolls Online
- RuneQuest (RQ)
- Dungeons & Dragons (D&D)
- Gloomhaven
- HarnMaster
- Mount & Blade
- Seven
- Knights of the Old Republic
- Doom
- Horizon Zero Dawn
- Prey
In this video:
0:02:22 Rules are the physics of the game world
0:03:08 Characteristics
0:05:00 Hit Points and healing
0:08:16 Bleeding
0:10:06 Dying
0:12:41 Magic Points
0:14:22 Abuse of mechanics in D&D etc.
0:14:55 Problems with level mechanics
0:16:15 Compared to Skill-based mechanics
0:17:06 Levels only about fighting
0:18:16 Better ways to use level mechanics in video games
0:21:10 Level mechanics and training?
0:21:39 Level scaling is the worst!
0:23:28 NPCs should level up as well!
0:24:45 Mechanism for defending is required!
0:25:49 Level requirements for weapons are dumb
0:27:25 Worldbuilding and story
0:30:59 Open world and non-linearity are the way to go
0:33:09 Games are about choices that matter
0:37:53 Monster and monster race are dumb concepts
0:40:29 Spawning monsters is the worst!
0:41:34 Boss Monster is the dumbest idea ever!
0:44:21 Magic or equivalent tech (inflation)
0:47:20 Solution to inflation
0:49:16 Power sources
0:50:14 Capitalize on the mysterious! (Show, don't tell!)
0:51:10 SciFi should be based on science
0:52:07 How would magic/tech influence the world? e.g. Teleportation
0:54:19 Weapons, armor, & other equipment
0:57:08 One size fits all?
0:59:49 Enemies should have used lootable stuff
1:00:27 Constant use of all "boosters" sucks
1:01:49 Video game mechanics
1:03:12 Parrying should be the norm!
1:03:25 Interaction with terrain and objects is important
1:04:50 Stealth problems
1:07:48 Combat is usually boring (because unrealistic)
1:09:17 Enemies should not always fight to the death!
1:10:11 Daily events ruin suspension of disbelief
1:10:58 Save & Load Game are basic requirements!
1:11:20 1st person view is superior to 3rd person view
1:12:10 Bonus: simulate other senses in darkness
![[Re:all TREASURE] EP.6 in 방콕ㅣ🚩 쩡캠의 방콕 투어 빵 마이 와이 👍](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uyFw-nItA_s/mqdefault.jpg)
You seem to be assuming that the purpose of a game is a to simulate a world accurately, rather than a game with a sense verisimilitude. Yes, many of these things could be made to reflect like more. But saying a game improves by making it a better simulation is like saying model airplane would be better if it was full size.
No, I don't think accurate simulation is possible :)
Most games are just too far removed reality to give me any sense of verisimilitude. But some are closer to it than others. Pretty much any skill based system is better than a level-based one. A game that gas a mechanic for bleeding is better than one without. "Fast travel" is better than "teleportation", and so on.
@@jvilkka I think you are expressing a subjective opinion rather than subjective fact. no one system is better for everyone than another. some people want a level based system because levelling up is a fun experience, it wouldn't still be around otherwise. hit points are an easy abstraction as well to keep combat moving swiftly. I often imagine that hit points refer to my ability to avoid a mortal wound, sort of like a measure of how lucky I am that the sword misses my artery. Of course that is on a personal level, but my point is that everyone likes a different level of abstraction for different aspects of the games they play. some of the points made in this video could be valid improvements in a new system, but I don't think it warrants saying that it was a bad choice for the existing system.
@@roccoruscitti910 yes, my video is of course very subjective. It's my wishlist to game companies, essentially. 😀
Besides, I also like to play D&D games sometimes, especially if I'm feeling nostalgic or want to play a silly game. But if I want more serious RPG, as I nearly always did as a GM, I want a game that enables it. D&D-style games do not.
i like your realistic approach to ttrpgs.
i think if you were to make one it could be good. The way you think for some reason reminds me of gurps and i like gurps.
I like how you seem to put skill based systems above class based ones.
But i do believe that most players are not as hardcore as you might be. While i totally agree with most of your thoughts the majority of ttrpg players dont want a game that makes sense in any way.
because i guess games dont have to make sense? and how they desing ttrpgs , especially class based ones are very video gamey. That i find weird because ttrpgs are closer to books than video games. obviously because the earliest rpgs were based on dnd.
This is why i think that certain stories or genres or campaign concepts... etc and player groups require different systems. often rules light systems could work better if you have the right group.
the reason why games use class based systems mostly and ttrpgs could use skill based is the resources available. Developers cant make a system with 1000 skills and make them synergies.
but then there are better solutions to this problem in most games. games that dont have level as their primary progression shouldnt have levels at that point. (like assasins creed)
then ttrpgs shouldnt be limited where you can do that. The whole ttrpg scene is flawed because of DnD's monopoly
I've tried creating my own TTRPG twice, actually. It's not easy :)
I never really tried GURPS, only glanced at the rule book once. Heard good things about it, though.
The GM should pick the game (rules) that fit the kind of story they want. I've been in a group where the GM tried to make a serious, medieval style game, but used D&D. It didn't work well.
For computer games, look at the 1998 version of Thief: metal age, & Thief 2. If you can look past the old graphics, both games have excellent stealth mechanics. Avoid the 2014 version of Thief as it loses the magic of the original.
I've played all the Thief games, and the first I played several times. I rarely play any video game through more than once. I did like the new one as well, although once was enough for it :)
You are critical of game design conventions, but you’re not offering alternative suggestions.
If you want a game that simulates internal bleeding (for example) I’d be keen to see you come up with something that is 1) not unwieldy and 2) is fun.
I'd suggest Role Master, but it can be unwieldy (1), and doesn't meet all definitions of fun (2).
Precisely - Role Master was an evolutionary branch of RPG design that died off a long time ago because it failed to meet those two criteria.
Even modern games suffer against those benchmarks.
I would argue that Pathfinder 2 is a perfect example of a modern game that is not fun enough to support the additional complexity of it’s systems.
Perhaps I should make a video about some specific suggestions then?
You are right, those two criteria may be difficult to meet at once, especially because of different ideas of what is fun.
Absolutely! As some other comments have suggested - game mechanics vary depending on the intentions of the designer.
It would be interesting to see examples of mechanics that you would find fun, and that would satisfy the kind of experience you’re looking for.
@@user-yl9pc5dz7c I'll see what I can do 🙂
I am frustrated with nearly everything you have pointed out as well, I have found that when it gets to that point, then you probably have a unique idea of what you want to see in rpgs, have you thought about designing your own ttrpg / game from the ground up?
Tried it twice, gave up both times. I was more successful with some houserules for some games.
@@jvilkka I think it is worth exploring how to reimagine these concepts, the problem with ttrpgs is the modern mechanistic approach when creating systems; As for videos games… I think we will eventually have a set of programs that describe what you are thinking, but it will be awhile still sadly.
Ohh and good video btw, this is the first one I’ve seen and I just subscribed 👍