“A historical figure doesn’t have to be a good person to be queer”. Good reminder that we don’t have to idolize every queer historical figure - but we should still respect their queerness. It’s okay to find comfort/validity in their queerness without hailing them a saint. Thanks for another awesome video and congrats on the new cat!
Even saints aren’t perfect, no one is. Beyond their comments about Jewish people, which was wrong but typical for the time, I don’t really see what they did wrong. You have to understand people for the context they lived in. That’s true of people alive today and those who have long passed. Take what lessons you can from them but always understand that they’re flawed human beings all the same.
In my eyes, d'Eon didn't lie about their AGAB, they just had the opportunity and a vast toolbox of vocabulary and understanding characters in novels, I believe they started to see themselves as a character in a novel.
Ah yes, when the fates present you with a cat. They are rarely a cat you would have chosen if you were choosing a cat, but they're usually more interesting. Plus karma points for accepting the fates cat.
My first cat I adopted and just fell in love with him after seeing pics and when I got to meet him he just flopped over like ‘you may pet me now’ and I knew he was for me😂my younger kitty I wasn’t even meant to get but we had to buy her there and then or lose out completely so we bought her and got all the kitten supplies on the way home 😂
My two cats just showed up one night as kittens. Would I have chosen them myself? Probably not. That said, I wouldn't give my babies up for anything. I love them more than I can express and have literal nightmares about them being hurt or lost. They chose me, and I'm eternally grateful for it.
Personally I don’t see what is so complicated about d’Éon’s gender identity. She didn’t want to wear women’s clothing and had good reason to want to continue wearing her uniform that she earned by serving her country, but she was pretty clear that she saw herself as a woman. Women’s clothing at the time was restricting, particularly for noble women, and it probably just didn’t suit her. We see other cis noble women who wear men’s clothing but still identify as women, as rare as it was. We see people like this today who just feel more comfortable presenting as they always have, but internally their sense of identity is different. They deserve respect all the same, not everyone has to transition or present like the societal ideal of their preferred gender identity. If I’m a downright fool, please feel free to tell me about it, but from where I stand it seems pretty clear cut.
my guess is that it’s only complicated in terms of 18th century standards; its most likely due to them not having ambiguity in clothing and only assigned certain clothing accessories to men and women, unlike today where we recognize clothing as just neutral that anyone can wear. i definitely see ur point tho bc that is exactly what i was thinking listening to that part xddd
Absolutely agree. As an NB person raised female, I can add an angle. I wear almost exclusively classically masculine clothes, but I tend to lean classically "feminine" in the way I speak, act, and interact with people. I still consider women "my people" as well as genderqueer folks. Despite my dress style and some very classically masculine habits of carrying myself, and despite identifying much more with women, I am neither. Your clothes are an accessory to your identity as a person, but may not have anything to do with your sexuality or gender. Clothes don't have a gender, because you don't have to have a certain body part to use them. Men can wear bras and skirts. Women can wear suits and pants. Clothes are accessories, nothing more.
true but the idea of heaven being a genderless sexless place does seem to tie into her views and perceptions of gender as well even tho she just wanted to exist out of the strict french gender norms of the era
I visited d'Eon's house a couple of years ago. In the little pamphlet I was given, the owners of the house (who I believe are the chevalier's indirect descendents), firmly denied the possibility of their transness, referring to d'Eon's apparent regret at donning women's clothes. I'm not surprised, as the chevalier complex identity defies the general population's understanding of transness, but it's really interesting to have the longer story from you, Kaz. Keep up the good work!
Yeah, all forms of deviancy, crossdressing or just any forms of gender expression or identity that were outside of the norms of the time will be judged by a modern lens that might not be solely accurate to the time Pretty much anything before the concept of transness was codified is a bit of a gamble with a lot of guess work
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I get what you're saying, but I think it's really unfortunate that stories like this one are so easily dismissed as being a misunderstanding of the time period. So much of our history has been erased, forgotten, or is just outright dismissed so I think considering stories like this as a potential part of our collective history is a good thing. Even if it's a complex story and we have no hard answers. There are many cishets historical figures we have to infer much about as well. This isn't a dig at you btw, just wanted to throw my opinion in the hat too.
@@jungtothehuimang oh yeah I agree with that, I wasn't trying to dismiss these trans stories and histories, they are intrinsic to understanding our experiences, I was mostly trying to be cautious about this, it's very easy for people to box themselves into a singular perspective and see the rest of the world through those lenses with little nuances I'm often reminded of a preserved mummy they found atop a mountain that was killed by an arrow to the back (Don't remember the name they gave him) because in a video talking about it someone commented "imagine if this guy burned down an entire village, someone ran after him for revenge, killed him with an arrow and now people are sympathizing with his corpse" Since we can't know for sure weather or not these people were trans(although we can make reasonable assumptions based on what they left behind) it's best to see this with an open mind
@@airplanes_aren.t_real you know, you brought up a good point that I never really thought of, about the man on the mountain. That's a perspective I never even considered before. Thanks for sharing it with me. With any history it is a bit of a guessing game and in truth there are things we simply won't ever know, and that's kind of what makes the past so fascinating to research. I think even if we can't ever know if a figure in history would have considered themself queer or not, it's still uplifting to know that centuries ago there were people out there who felt similar feelings and lived similar lives to us. Thanks for responding. Sorry if I came across in a rude way at all, it wasn't intentional.
I like the decree at 11:15 being called "The Transaction" because it can easily be read as "The Trans Action", ie the royal action that officially made d'Eon trans!
Not going to lie, hearing that D'Eon felt trapped by womens clothing after living for so many decades as a male but deep in there heart felt female was touching and sad in equal measure. Born in the right era to understand what they were, but too early to experience better rights for women. Seeing how everyone wrote about this individual to this day, trying to lock them in a nice little box and the horrible disrespect upon passing, it kinda made me tear up. (Also I've learned to not even check what historical figures thoughts are on Jews. Its like almost always bad. Looking at you William Lloyd Garrison)
d'Eon reminds me of many transfem eggs. "Women are just so cool, right!? Like they're sooo much better than men!" Also reminds me of trans women from conservative backgrounds (and have typically come out layer in life) who are shocked to discover that misogyny still exists and now affects them.
I'm working on an essay proposal for my history methods class. It's on how people keep denying people like James Barry, Charley Parkhurst, and Billy Tipton as transmen and how disrespectfulit is to past and current transpeople. And how these transmen aren't cross dressers like Hannah Snell or Deborah Sampson who dressed as men to go fight in war. I came across d'eon but no offense to d'eon but they'd deserve more time and space than I had. Still seem like a dope subject to research. Also love the little meows in the back, it's so serotonin filling
Question is this essay going to also include Albert Cashier the trans man who fought the Confederacy under Grant and kicked ass? Cashier is interesting because at first glance it appears like a war cross dressing story, but then he just... stayed as a man after the war until he was near dying.
But Deborah Sampson's situation is interesting because we don't know that if she hadn't been found out whether she would have remained a man. I haven't read any thing she may have wrote on her feelings about the whole topic, but I've always found it a bit possible that she may have been more than just a crossdresser.
on a side note they fenced against Joseph Bologne twice once as a 'man' and once as a 'woman' which is quite remarkable and they even have a picture of them both fencing which is sort of a surprise for it's time. A Black Chevalier fencing with a Trans Chevalier is sort of something that seems very progressive and feels sort of fictional compared to this era, the sense that it is radical.
I want to say, as someone whose first language is french, that the topic of gender is even more confusing in situations like this than it seems for someone who comes from a gender neutral language like english. French is a HEAVILY gendered language. All inanimate objects even have genders and the gender of something alters the spelling of nearly every word referring to it in a sentence. There is no gender neutral pronoun in french and the idea of something being neither male nor female would be a concept particularly hard to grasp in the 1700s in France where even a chair is female. It is possible that the reason they wanted to be a woman despite not entirely feeling comfortable as one is because they knew they were not a man, and culturally, there was nothing else but those two options.
@emilyrln "on" is "us" or "we". Idk who taught you it was equivalent to one but they are wrong. It is synonymous with "nous", though used in different contexts, which is the first person plural.
@emilyrln The proper equivalent to "one" in the sense you are looking for would be "quelqu'un", which is masculine. In French, masculine is used when referring to someone of unknown gender or a crowd of people which comprises men and women. There isn't a separate gender neutral term or conjugations.
One of my favorite trans historical figures is Princess Seraphina (and not just because we share a name ^-^) because as far as history and social class go, she was kind of a nobody. The only records we really have of her are a court case where she (presenting as a man) sued a guy for stealing her masc clothes and a mention of her in a last confession. She lived with friends, a married couple she nursed through an illness, and among them she was herself and didn't have to wear this man persona society expected of her.
@ville__ Is this fulfilling? Is your life so nonexistent that you derive pleasure wasting your own time by copy+pasting this comment repeatedly thinking that you're dunking on trans and nonbinary people for showing us you're just like every other pathetic edgelord who's miserable? You're never getting your wasted time back.
your channel is literally my favorite rn, it means so much to learn about LGBTQ+ history and you tell it so well!!!! also not only queer but history as a whole, you always bring topics that enlighten so much about ages past that we don’t understand and/ or are full of misconceptions (looking at you victorians making shit up about the middle ages) keep it up ily please marry me
This! It's especially nice for me to have a queer Jewish perspective on history. It's common for Jew-hate to be brushed aside, and for historians to say, "That's just how it was!" even when they denounce other forms of racism. (Antisemitism is the last acceptable form of racism. I will die on this mountain.) For Kaz to not only focus on queer history, but to call hatred what it is, makes me very happy.
I first heard of the Chevalier from the videogame Assassin's Creed Unity. They're a quest giver and I always thought that it was cool the developers included their character but never dug more into it, so thanks for the video!! Great as always :))
My introduction as well. Which is why I was semi confused when Syndicate said they had the first trans character. I was like wait a minute doesn't Chevalier D'Eon count? Yes, yes they do.
I love that their mother accepted their gender, even if it meant lying about their assigned gender at birth. She was probably trying to be the best parent she could by accepting her child unconditionally.
It sounds to me like Lady Oscar from the manga/anime Rose of Versailles might have actually been more inspired by this person (and their retconned fictional autobiography) than the usually-speculated Julie Daubigny. Thank you for this overview, Kaz!
That was a very balanced and well researched presentation. I am am old fart, but I am not to proud to admit that there are a lot of young folk TH-cam educators, who really open my mind. My big gray boy cat is name Hercules Mulligan. I used to tease him about him being sans sacks, but now I realize he is valid and wonderful as he is. He is my big gray enforcer, pushing us around like a Pinkerton detective, who likes to cuddle a lot.
Congratulations on being chosen by the CDS! I love that your new baby just wants to be held. Or just wants to be on camera because she knows she’s a star? 😻
"Don't chew on that." I live with 3 cats, and I can tell you that you'll be saying "don't chew on that" a *lot.* Enjoy your new housemate! Also, the video was amazing as always!
I absolutely adore the chevalier, thank you for highlighting this amazing piece of trans history! And congratulations on the cat distribution system choosing you! My 18-year-old distribution system cat sends his love
An incredibly interesting topic, packed with questions and a historical figure I have never heard of, AND a cute cat? This show has it all! Thanks so much.
I'm glad this is a community of people who like history and aren't weird about it like the guys obsessed with world wars and civil wars I found Kaz on the western video and since then I have been loving this channel Great work Kaz!
I’m working on a game set in the 1820s with a friend and he keeps finding that people just have random portraits of the Chevalier d’Eon in their homes. Like, for no reason, they just thought they were neat. I knew about them but didn’t anticipate they were such a celebrity
I’m having such a crappy day today. I’m physically, mentally, and emotionally spent. Thank you for posting your always entertaining and informative content. I needed these 33 mins today.
Aww congrats what a gorgeous kitten!! I was actually denied adopting a cat just today! I’ve been a cat lady for 41 years and have worked in the vet field for 13 of those and have rescued 6 cats. I probably gave birth to that cat in a past life, they’re insane to deny me. Anyway, I’m glad a kitty showed up in your life and sorry for using your TH-cam comment section to vent. I love your videos, I feel smarter after watching them!😊
on the upside, it's generally not too terribly hard to find and trap a feral kitten in most places, just so long as you get the mama too to spay her, which I'm sure I don't need to tell you 🤭
I tried to adopt a dog, was refused, don't know why. I did find a puppy. She was my best friend and best dog ever. I had her for 13 of the best years ever. Maybe fate has a cat waiting for you.
@@Bildgesmythe I didn't think one could be refused without being given a reason, and I thought the reason would have to be an established policy, rather than the whim of whoever was working. Otherwise, people could be denied based on hair color or any number of personal biases. I'm really surprised to find out people can be denied without knowing why.
Even with the cat consuming your time, the fit is still immaculate, as always. I hope the cat also gets matching era appropriate outfits for every video. I demand vintage fancy cat!!! I will settle for pretty much anything else to be honest, like the occasional off screen meow. Demand is a strong word, but a vintage fancy cat is a strong concept.
I watched the anime very loosely inspired by d'Éon's life and it was not very historically accurate but definitely an incredible show!! highly recommend it. it made me look up the actual details and history of d'Éon and it was so interesting. thanks for covering this!
So glad to see you pop up Kaz! Congratulations on your new kitty. As I've just lost the Dog of My Life it feels good to see someone at the beginning of their journey together. Can't wait to dig into this video. Your in-depths have the best way of completely distracting me, and I need that now more than ever. Please don't ever doubt that what you do matters. It matters so much.
Hey, just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. Our fur babies are really special, and I hope you feel some comfort knowing you had the time together that you did. 💙
@@ashleyboots3386 Thank you Ashley. Grief being nonlinear, I've been shuffling through the emotions like a deck of cards. However because his ashes came home today it's made me feel a bit better, knowing he's back where he belongs -- with me. Thank you for being so sweetly supportive of a total stranger. It helps to remember that there are good people in this world. I really appreciate your kindness.💜
@@CleoHarperReturns I'm happy to have helped in any small way. My own pupper has canine epilepsy and myoclonus, and while she's thankfully 20+ months seizure-free and a very spoiled and happy being, I'm keenly aware she won't live as long as average. If possible, I plan to incorporate some of her ashes after she passes into tattoo ink, then get a tattoo of her over my heart. That way, when I too pass from this mortal plane and am cremated, we'll be together forever. I hope today grants you ease and happiness. 💙
Idea: supurrviser in a cat bed by or near your shoulder during your lecture segments. The bed (and maybe eventually the kitty too?) can sport thematic elements to your topic. Wonderful video as always. I adore and appreciate your dedication to describing not only the sources but the context in which the sources were made. As well as their treatment and context over time. For historical figures especially it’s so important to not only know what they did but how we interpreted what they did over time. Thank you for all your hard work! ❤
Yeeeeey. Ever since you did the Julia episode I've been hoping for a Chevalier D'Eon video. I mention this fascinating human so often when someone asks me about historical trans people. Hurrah Hurrah!
Oh my goodness, Mila (Meela? Mewla???) is so heckin cute. I love how chatty she is, like she hears her person make mouth noises and has to join in. Precious. Please consider matching costumes, I would die.
I also came into caring for a loud brown tabby girly and she hates being held but she's the best thing that has ever happened to me. Cats are the real heart of the home ngl. also love the video :)
Mila's commentary on this topic was insightful, poetic, and much appreciated. You should consider having her as a co-writer/researcher on a future video!
Kaz's cat! Congratulations, and welcome to your new life, Mila! I read about the Chevalier some time ago, fascinating story. I was wondering when you would cover it, so glad you did. History has so many surprises, doesn't it? Keep the stories coming, Kaz, you're doing a great job!
I just watched the PBS Origins video, then saw this. Honestly makes me wonder about YT logic, because I'm pretty consistent in my behaviors. Congrats on the kitty! Happy Birthday!
Sweet baby kitty! Congratulations! Also good video, I've been binging your videos while knitting this month and it's been great. Thank you for uploading. :)
Our brows have gone too long without their reefs. Why are there crowns for queens but not for you? The horns of sculpted Moses part the sea; a passageway believed and crossed by few. The sea denies it parted in the past- -thy forehead’s only felt rogue strands of hair that dampen in the shallows where we splash as humpback whales still pirouette somewhere. Thou, on the beach, the missing royal link, no resident to any beach-front house. Why walk the beach and wonder when to swim? our hallway in the sea conceals itself. But in the shallows, foreheads bead with drops. Ah, what those shining drops remind me of. - a sonnet i wrote just right now
Great video as always, side note, your new cat is almost identical to my sisters cat whom recently passed, her name was Beatrix and answered to Trixie, she was in her 20’s when she passed and may yours live longer than that giving you many happy years together.
Chevalier D'eon is one of my "go tos" when people ask why to bother to learn history. So much stuff echoes through time and the modern "debate" about trans rights shows how it's not so much about people actually wanting to constructively understand gender identity. They just want to force through what they think is proper gendered behaviors without consideration for their own hypocrisy and "queer" behaviors. A great example to me is the "Ship of Theseus" that is domestic cooking and how it's gone from something a man should shun to being unthinkable a man can't cook at least some food for his family.
I actually didn't know d'Eon was a real person, I read a manga about a fictionalized version of d'Eon when I was in middle school. It took the "girl whos parents forced them to live as a boy" angle, but still portrayed some complex gender feels.
is this referring to Rose of Versailles? because I know there's a whole anime that retcons Le Chevalier d'Éon's life by writing him as an identical twin to his late sister who sometimes possesses him when fencing people?? and she has past lovers that her brother gets tangled up with
Wow - that story was way more complex than I thought it would be. But it's good because it is so important to keep conversation going. Human nature is complex. Maybe it is time to stop trying to simplify us. Thanks for presenting this story so clearly. I really enjoyed this video! Your new cat is adorable!
That letter to the other Chevalier is heartbreaking. To be a woman who was maybe not AFAB in the 18th century really was mostly a downgrade. My heart grieves that the Chevalier d'Eon had to sacrifice something either way.
Congrats on being chosen by the cat distribution system. Mila is gorgeous. Look in to something called Feliway. They have collars, wall plug in diffusers, sprays etc. It mimics a hormone their mothers produce. It helps keep them calm.
I first came to know about the Chevalier from an anime that takes a fantasy take of their life. Great video! Lucky you that you have been chosen for cat life 😊
Very interesting. I think it’s very much of note that in spite of the difficulties and limitations that d’Eon complained about in their experience of presenting as feminine, they still wanted to be recognised as female. I think that that definitely underlines the fact that living in a Transgender identity is neither easy nor a choice. I also like the discussions about “being Trans” and how people have for so long attempted to fit cases into clearly separated pigeonholes. Whatever d’Eon was, maybe it doesn’t need definition. They were what they were - and I’m fairly sure they knew themselves a darn sight better that any set of academics arguing over centuries old remnants and clues. Also, love the new trash baby! The cat distribution system has made the right choice!
Inversely I found their whole thing hella relatable cuz like I adore the feminine arts, feminine politics and feminine dress and yet I am a male. Like in my head. My brain tells me that my body is male should be male should have a penis etc. But I'm AFAB. 😶 it's a wild thing bc the day I accepted this part of myself was the day that the howling black hole in the back of my soul went quiet.
@@uarestrong76 that makes sense. Like all of these things, trying to live up to the expectations outlined by “disinterested observers” (those people that create the labels and definitions) can be incredibly harmful, while being allowed the time to look at one’s self and recognise what is actually there can bring great calm.
I just discovered your channel 4 days ago. I have literally watched all of your content… I know you’re tired but I’m gonna need you to pick up the pace… 😂 Love your content!
THANK YOU for this 💚 Also : Hi Mila ! Welcome here 💚 my cats were very intrigued by the meows. A friend of mine also has a tabby cat named Mila. They’re a very fierce cat, except when it’s Cuddle Time. Then they are a Big Purring Baby for like 30 minutes.
I named my first purry baby Mila, too 🥰 She was catnapped years ago, unfortunately. Now I have a sweet tortoiseshell rescue kitty that I named Galaxy 💖
How they retconned their past reminds me a lot about how many trans people speculate about how their lives would have been, if they had been able to live as their gender from they were young. E.g. people who have photoalbums made with the appearant gender been growing up, switched. It helps them heal.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
“A historical figure doesn’t have to be a good person to be queer”. Good reminder that we don’t have to idolize every queer historical figure - but we should still respect their queerness. It’s okay to find comfort/validity in their queerness without hailing them a saint. Thanks for another awesome video and congrats on the new cat!
I support queer rights and queer wrongs!
beautifully said
This still holds true, certain trans figures today are objectively terrible but still deserve to have their gender respected.
Even saints aren’t perfect, no one is. Beyond their comments about Jewish people, which was wrong but typical for the time, I don’t really see what they did wrong. You have to understand people for the context they lived in. That’s true of people alive today and those who have long passed. Take what lessons you can from them but always understand that they’re flawed human beings all the same.
True that. I’ve definitely learned that while researching Queen Kristina of Sweden.
I kind of love that their mom was like "Yep, definitely born a girl." That just feels ... supportive to me.
d'Eon straight up lying about their agab is kind of iconic tbh
All Gender Are Bastards
🏳️⚧️🩵🩷🤍🩷🩵🏳️⚧️
In my eyes, d'Eon didn't lie about their AGAB, they just had the opportunity and a vast toolbox of vocabulary and understanding characters in novels, I believe they started to see themselves as a character in a novel.
the moment d'Éon was treated as a woman she was labelled as too masculine - some things never change :/
*they. We don’t know their gender, or their sex
@user-i-like-Doctor-Who we do know their sex. They were still biologically male. Their gender is a different story.
@@user-hanging-at-the-hanged-man9lll po0p😊😅😅😅😅😊⁰
I'm a simple man. I see Kaz Rowe uploaded, I click.
It's that simple. Cheers!
Yeah!
Yepper ❤
time to get dressed in my finest couture and retire to the drawing room
Same.
Ah yes, when the fates present you with a cat. They are rarely a cat you would have chosen if you were choosing a cat, but they're usually more interesting.
Plus karma points for accepting the fates cat.
Yup, I was trying to get a different cat but the fates chose differently and gave me my purrfect kitten!
We have a thirty pound orange behemoth who was a present from the fates. We hadn't intended to get another cat, but we don't turn down the fates.
Truer words were never spoken.
My first cat I adopted and just fell in love with him after seeing pics and when I got to meet him he just flopped over like ‘you may pet me now’ and I knew he was for me😂my younger kitty I wasn’t even meant to get but we had to buy her there and then or lose out completely so we bought her and got all the kitten supplies on the way home 😂
My two cats just showed up one night as kittens. Would I have chosen them myself? Probably not. That said, I wouldn't give my babies up for anything. I love them more than I can express and have literal nightmares about them being hurt or lost.
They chose me, and I'm eternally grateful for it.
Personally I don’t see what is so complicated about d’Éon’s gender identity. She didn’t want to wear women’s clothing and had good reason to want to continue wearing her uniform that she earned by serving her country, but she was pretty clear that she saw herself as a woman. Women’s clothing at the time was restricting, particularly for noble women, and it probably just didn’t suit her. We see other cis noble women who wear men’s clothing but still identify as women, as rare as it was. We see people like this today who just feel more comfortable presenting as they always have, but internally their sense of identity is different. They deserve respect all the same, not everyone has to transition or present like the societal ideal of their preferred gender identity. If I’m a downright fool, please feel free to tell me about it, but from where I stand it seems pretty clear cut.
love this take
She would probably been considered a tomboy if she was alive today
my guess is that it’s only complicated in terms of 18th century standards; its most likely due to them not having ambiguity in clothing and only assigned certain clothing accessories to men and women, unlike today where we recognize clothing as just neutral that anyone can wear. i definitely see ur point tho bc that is exactly what i was thinking listening to that part xddd
Absolutely agree. As an NB person raised female, I can add an angle. I wear almost exclusively classically masculine clothes, but I tend to lean classically "feminine" in the way I speak, act, and interact with people. I still consider women "my people" as well as genderqueer folks. Despite my dress style and some very classically masculine habits of carrying myself, and despite identifying much more with women, I am neither. Your clothes are an accessory to your identity as a person, but may not have anything to do with your sexuality or gender. Clothes don't have a gender, because you don't have to have a certain body part to use them. Men can wear bras and skirts. Women can wear suits and pants. Clothes are accessories, nothing more.
true but the idea of heaven being a genderless sexless place does seem to tie into her views and perceptions of gender as well even tho she just wanted to exist out of the strict french gender norms of the era
I visited d'Eon's house a couple of years ago. In the little pamphlet I was given, the owners of the house (who I believe are the chevalier's indirect descendents), firmly denied the possibility of their transness, referring to d'Eon's apparent regret at donning women's clothes. I'm not surprised, as the chevalier complex identity defies the general population's understanding of transness, but it's really interesting to have the longer story from you, Kaz. Keep up the good work!
Yeah, all forms of deviancy, crossdressing or just any forms of gender expression or identity that were outside of the norms of the time will be judged by a modern lens that might not be solely accurate to the time
Pretty much anything before the concept of transness was codified is a bit of a gamble with a lot of guess work
@@airplanes_aren.t_real I get what you're saying, but I think it's really unfortunate that stories like this one are so easily dismissed as being a misunderstanding of the time period. So much of our history has been erased, forgotten, or is just outright dismissed so I think considering stories like this as a potential part of our collective history is a good thing. Even if it's a complex story and we have no hard answers. There are many cishets historical figures we have to infer much about as well. This isn't a dig at you btw, just wanted to throw my opinion in the hat too.
Like the Rose of Versailles, but backwards.
@@jungtothehuimang oh yeah I agree with that, I wasn't trying to dismiss these trans stories and histories, they are intrinsic to understanding our experiences, I was mostly trying to be cautious about this, it's very easy for people to box themselves into a singular perspective and see the rest of the world through those lenses with little nuances
I'm often reminded of a preserved mummy they found atop a mountain that was killed by an arrow to the back (Don't remember the name they gave him) because in a video talking about it someone commented "imagine if this guy burned down an entire village, someone ran after him for revenge, killed him with an arrow and now people are sympathizing with his corpse"
Since we can't know for sure weather or not these people were trans(although we can make reasonable assumptions based on what they left behind) it's best to see this with an open mind
@@airplanes_aren.t_real you know, you brought up a good point that I never really thought of, about the man on the mountain. That's a perspective I never even considered before. Thanks for sharing it with me.
With any history it is a bit of a guessing game and in truth there are things we simply won't ever know, and that's kind of what makes the past so fascinating to research.
I think even if we can't ever know if a figure in history would have considered themself queer or not, it's still uplifting to know that centuries ago there were people out there who felt similar feelings and lived similar lives to us.
Thanks for responding. Sorry if I came across in a rude way at all, it wasn't intentional.
I like the decree at 11:15 being called "The Transaction" because it can easily be read as "The Trans Action", ie the royal action that officially made d'Eon trans!
Yes! I literally came here to say that
it's so fascinating to see an 18th century religious framing of nonbinary gender feelings
ALSO love the kitty!!!
It's really an interesting philosophy but tragic that it's so entangled with antisemitism and misandry.
transness and queerness is so complex no matter what time period and that’s so interesting to me. lovely video as always!
Human beings are complex.
A video with a kitty?!?! It’s like the cat distribution system has blessed us all, too 🥰
Not going to lie, hearing that D'Eon felt trapped by womens clothing after living for so many decades as a male but deep in there heart felt female was touching and sad in equal measure. Born in the right era to understand what they were, but too early to experience better rights for women.
Seeing how everyone wrote about this individual to this day, trying to lock them in a nice little box and the horrible disrespect upon passing, it kinda made me tear up.
(Also I've learned to not even check what historical figures thoughts are on Jews. Its like almost always bad. Looking at you William Lloyd Garrison)
d'Eon reminds me of many transfem eggs. "Women are just so cool, right!? Like they're sooo much better than men!" Also reminds me of trans women from conservative backgrounds (and have typically come out layer in life) who are shocked to discover that misogyny still exists and now affects them.
I'm working on an essay proposal for my history methods class. It's on how people keep denying people like James Barry, Charley Parkhurst, and Billy Tipton as transmen and how disrespectfulit is to past and current transpeople. And how these transmen aren't cross dressers like Hannah Snell or Deborah Sampson who dressed as men to go fight in war. I came across d'eon but no offense to d'eon but they'd deserve more time and space than I had. Still seem like a dope subject to research. Also love the little meows in the back, it's so serotonin filling
I wish I could read your work when it's done! Good luck. That's a really important subject.
Question is this essay going to also include Albert Cashier the trans man who fought the Confederacy under Grant and kicked ass? Cashier is interesting because at first glance it appears like a war cross dressing story, but then he just... stayed as a man after the war until he was near dying.
But Deborah Sampson's situation is interesting because we don't know that if she hadn't been found out whether she would have remained a man. I haven't read any thing she may have wrote on her feelings about the whole topic, but I've always found it a bit possible that she may have been more than just a crossdresser.
on a side note they fenced against Joseph Bologne twice once as a 'man' and once as a 'woman' which is quite remarkable and they even have a picture of them both fencing which is sort of a surprise for it's time. A Black Chevalier fencing with a Trans Chevalier is sort of something that seems very progressive and feels sort of fictional compared to this era, the sense that it is radical.
I want to say, as someone whose first language is french, that the topic of gender is even more confusing in situations like this than it seems for someone who comes from a gender neutral language like english. French is a HEAVILY gendered language. All inanimate objects even have genders and the gender of something alters the spelling of nearly every word referring to it in a sentence. There is no gender neutral pronoun in french and the idea of something being neither male nor female would be a concept particularly hard to grasp in the 1700s in France where even a chair is female. It is possible that the reason they wanted to be a woman despite not entirely feeling comfortable as one is because they knew they were not a man, and culturally, there was nothing else but those two options.
@Villealt So true, bestie 🔥🔥
That's an amazing point
Isn't _on_ gender-neutral? When I studied French, we were taught that it's equivalent to "one," as in "One would think."
@emilyrln "on" is "us" or "we". Idk who taught you it was equivalent to one but they are wrong. It is synonymous with "nous", though used in different contexts, which is the first person plural.
@emilyrln The proper equivalent to "one" in the sense you are looking for would be "quelqu'un", which is masculine. In French, masculine is used when referring to someone of unknown gender or a crowd of people which comprises men and women. There isn't a separate gender neutral term or conjugations.
Okay, the phrase 'Mila your womb is going to be so barren" is beyond amazing. You win.
“I have been chosen by the cat distribution system” bless
One of my favorite trans historical figures is Princess Seraphina (and not just because we share a name ^-^) because as far as history and social class go, she was kind of a nobody. The only records we really have of her are a court case where she (presenting as a man) sued a guy for stealing her masc clothes and a mention of her in a last confession. She lived with friends, a married couple she nursed through an illness, and among them she was herself and didn't have to wear this man persona society expected of her.
@ville__ Is this fulfilling? Is your life so nonexistent that you derive pleasure wasting your own time by copy+pasting this comment repeatedly thinking that you're dunking on trans and nonbinary people for showing us you're just like every other pathetic edgelord who's miserable? You're never getting your wasted time back.
@ville_ what the fuck
wtf@ville__
THE LITTLE MEWING IN THE BACKGROUND😭😭😭
🤫🧏♀️
your channel is literally my favorite rn, it means so much to learn about LGBTQ+ history and you tell it so well!!!! also not only queer but history as a whole, you always bring topics that enlighten so much about ages past that we don’t understand and/ or are full of misconceptions (looking at you victorians making shit up about the middle ages)
keep it up ily please marry me
This! It's especially nice for me to have a queer Jewish perspective on history. It's common for Jew-hate to be brushed aside, and for historians to say, "That's just how it was!" even when they denounce other forms of racism. (Antisemitism is the last acceptable form of racism. I will die on this mountain.) For Kaz to not only focus on queer history, but to call hatred what it is, makes me very happy.
I first heard of the Chevalier from the videogame Assassin's Creed Unity. They're a quest giver and I always thought that it was cool the developers included their character but never dug more into it, so thanks for the video!! Great as always :))
My introduction as well. Which is why I was semi confused when Syndicate said they had the first trans character. I was like wait a minute doesn't Chevalier D'Eon count? Yes, yes they do.
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez omg you're right!! I've never thought about it, that's weird
@@asstrid_ All in all it was a reasonably fair portrait of D'Eon going by Assassins Creed standards.
The Chevalier d’Eon anime makes so much more sense to me now!
I love that their mother accepted their gender, even if it meant lying about their assigned gender at birth. She was probably trying to be the best parent she could by accepting her child unconditionally.
It sounds to me like Lady Oscar from the manga/anime Rose of Versailles might have actually been more inspired by this person (and their retconned fictional autobiography) than the usually-speculated Julie Daubigny. Thank you for this overview, Kaz!
Oscar came to mind immediately!
That was a very balanced and well researched presentation. I am am old fart, but I am not to proud to admit that there are a lot of young folk TH-cam educators, who really open my mind.
My big gray boy cat is name Hercules Mulligan. I used to tease him about him being sans sacks, but now I realize he is valid and wonderful as he is. He is my big gray enforcer, pushing us around like a Pinkerton detective, who likes to cuddle a lot.
Congratulations on being chosen by the CDS! I love that your new baby just wants to be held. Or just wants to be on camera because she knows she’s a star? 😻
She wants her own channel, she's a cat.
"Parental unit speak, so I speaks!" 😂
The first time I learned about D' Eon was actually from Dress up Time Princess.
Finally a chevalier d'eon video. I feel like I've been asking for so long
"Don't chew on that."
I live with 3 cats, and I can tell you that you'll be saying "don't chew on that" a *lot.* Enjoy your new housemate! Also, the video was amazing as always!
I absolutely adore the chevalier, thank you for highlighting this amazing piece of trans history! And congratulations on the cat distribution system choosing you! My 18-year-old distribution system cat sends his love
An incredibly interesting topic, packed with questions and a historical figure I have never heard of, AND a cute cat? This show has it all! Thanks so much.
I'm glad this is a community of people who like history and aren't weird about it like the guys obsessed with world wars and civil wars
I found Kaz on the western video and since then I have been loving this channel
Great work Kaz!
Yet another interesting historical personality whom I would never have heard of were it not for you Kaz!
So glad the cat distribution system has brought you an adorable housemate! Thanks for the video, what a wild ride!
I’m working on a game set in the 1820s with a friend and he keeps finding that people just have random portraits of the Chevalier d’Eon in their homes. Like, for no reason, they just thought they were neat. I knew about them but didn’t anticipate they were such a celebrity
I may be stoned but "two can play that game, Gary" is now a meme in my headcanon
New Kaz video uploaded 20min ago AND i get rewarded with a new kitty in the first seconds?!?! The universe smiled upon me!
Ikr ❤
Hearing the baby in the background healed something in me. Thank you
I’m having such a crappy day today. I’m physically, mentally, and emotionally spent. Thank you for posting your always entertaining and informative content. I needed these 33 mins today.
Aww congrats what a gorgeous kitten!! I was actually denied adopting a cat just today! I’ve been a cat lady for 41 years and have worked in the vet field for 13 of those and have rescued 6 cats. I probably gave birth to that cat in a past life, they’re insane to deny me. Anyway, I’m glad a kitty showed up in your life and sorry for using your TH-cam comment section to vent. I love your videos, I feel smarter after watching them!😊
on the upside, it's generally not too terribly hard to find and trap a feral kitten in most places, just so long as you get the mama too to spay her, which I'm sure I don't need to tell you 🤭
What reason did they give for denying you?
I tried to adopt a dog, was refused, don't know why. I did find a puppy. She was my best friend and best dog ever. I had her for 13 of the best years ever. Maybe fate has a cat waiting for you.
@@Bildgesmythe I didn't think one could be refused without being given a reason, and I thought the reason would have to be an established policy, rather than the whim of whoever was working. Otherwise, people could be denied based on hair color or any number of personal biases. I'm really surprised to find out people can be denied without knowing why.
Even with the cat consuming your time, the fit is still immaculate, as always. I hope the cat also gets matching era appropriate outfits for every video.
I demand vintage fancy cat!!!
I will settle for pretty much anything else to be honest, like the occasional off screen meow. Demand is a strong word, but a vintage fancy cat is a strong concept.
hearing a cat meowing in the background of the video as a cat parent kept me giggle so much, adds to the video 100%. awesome vid as always!
Congratulations on your new baby!! 😻
I enjoyed Mila's contributions to the discussion of this very interesting figure of history.
I watched the anime very loosely inspired by d'Éon's life and it was not very historically accurate but definitely an incredible show!! highly recommend it.
it made me look up the actual details and history of d'Éon and it was so interesting. thanks for covering this!
At least it wasn't weird like Alexander anime
what's the shit called
So glad to see you pop up Kaz! Congratulations on your new kitty. As I've just lost the Dog of My Life it feels good to see someone at the beginning of their journey together. Can't wait to dig into this video. Your in-depths have the best way of completely distracting me, and I need that now more than ever. Please don't ever doubt that what you do matters. It matters so much.
Hey, just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. Our fur babies are really special, and I hope you feel some comfort knowing you had the time together that you did. 💙
@@ashleyboots3386 Thank you Ashley. Grief being nonlinear, I've been shuffling through the emotions like a deck of cards. However because his ashes came home today it's made me feel a bit better, knowing he's back where he belongs -- with me. Thank you for being so sweetly supportive of a total stranger. It helps to remember that there are good people in this world. I really appreciate your kindness.💜
I'm sorry about your pupper. (HUG) May his memory be a blessing. 💖
@@SewardWriter Aww, thank you so much. He was and will always be my greatest blessing.
@@CleoHarperReturns I'm happy to have helped in any small way.
My own pupper has canine epilepsy and myoclonus, and while she's thankfully 20+ months seizure-free and a very spoiled and happy being, I'm keenly aware she won't live as long as average. If possible, I plan to incorporate some of her ashes after she passes into tattoo ink, then get a tattoo of her over my heart. That way, when I too pass from this mortal plane and am cremated, we'll be together forever.
I hope today grants you ease and happiness. 💙
Idea: supurrviser in a cat bed by or near your shoulder during your lecture segments. The bed (and maybe eventually the kitty too?) can sport thematic elements to your topic.
Wonderful video as always. I adore and appreciate your dedication to describing not only the sources but the context in which the sources were made. As well as their treatment and context over time. For historical figures especially it’s so important to not only know what they did but how we interpreted what they did over time. Thank you for all your hard work! ❤
Yeeeeey. Ever since you did the Julia episode I've been hoping for a Chevalier D'Eon video. I mention this fascinating human so often when someone asks me about historical trans people. Hurrah Hurrah!
Loving the fact that you make better work about french history than some french videasts (youtubers ?) thank Kaz and welcome to your feral pet !
I love that you can hear the cat over the soundtrack!
Mila meowing periodically is so cute
Oh my goodness, Mila (Meela? Mewla???) is so heckin cute. I love how chatty she is, like she hears her person make mouth noises and has to join in. Precious. Please consider matching costumes, I would die.
currently eating mc donald’s in a elementary school watching kaz rowe
That sounds very nostalgic for some reason
Student or teacher ?
Living the best Life
😊
I also came into caring for a loud brown tabby girly and she hates being held but she's the best thing that has ever happened to me. Cats are the real heart of the home ngl. also love the video :)
I saw this AND you on the PBS Origins. Clicked both to watch back to back!
Welcome, Mila! My, what a lovely meow you have. 🐱
Yes! Those little "meow"s in the background are sooooo adorable. :)
Yoooo new Kaz video just dropped!!!
Mila's commentary on this topic was insightful, poetic, and much appreciated. You should consider having her as a co-writer/researcher on a future video!
Oh! When I was a little kid I read a fiction boom about them and completely forgot about it. Memory is restored!
I first learned of D’eon due to their ability as a fencer.
I literally named myself after d'Eon what an icon ty for this Kaz
OH NO NOT THE SECOND HALF OF THE VIDEO AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Kaz's cat! Congratulations, and welcome to your new life, Mila!
I read about the Chevalier some time ago, fascinating story. I was wondering when you would cover it, so glad you did. History has so many surprises, doesn't it? Keep the stories coming, Kaz, you're doing a great job!
This is literally the BEST birthday gift ever!!❤❤❤🎉🎉
So happy I get a new Kaz video to watch to calm down my nervous system after an overwhelming day. 😊
I just watched the PBS Origins video, then saw this. Honestly makes me wonder about YT logic, because I'm pretty consistent in my behaviors. Congrats on the kitty! Happy Birthday!
Kaz's Kat: "Meow meow meow meow meow!"
Me "ah, yes good point."
New cat mom! You get used to the gremlin energy. Great video!
TH-cam wanted me to rate your comment
Sweet baby kitty! Congratulations! Also good video, I've been binging your videos while knitting this month and it's been great. Thank you for uploading. :)
Our brows have gone too long without their reefs.
Why are there crowns for queens but not for you?
The horns of sculpted Moses part the sea;
a passageway believed and crossed by few.
The sea denies it parted in the past-
-thy forehead’s only felt rogue strands of hair
that dampen in the shallows where we splash
as humpback whales still pirouette somewhere.
Thou, on the beach, the missing royal link,
no resident to any beach-front house.
Why walk the beach and wonder when to swim?
our hallway in the sea conceals itself.
But in the shallows, foreheads bead with drops.
Ah, what those shining drops remind me of.
- a sonnet i wrote just right now
Great video as always, side note, your new cat is almost identical to my sisters cat whom recently passed, her name was Beatrix and answered to Trixie, she was in her 20’s when she passed and may yours live longer than that giving you many happy years together.
Chevalier D'eon is one of my "go tos" when people ask why to bother to learn history. So much stuff echoes through time and the modern "debate" about trans rights shows how it's not so much about people actually wanting to constructively understand gender identity. They just want to force through what they think is proper gendered behaviors without consideration for their own hypocrisy and "queer" behaviors. A great example to me is the "Ship of Theseus" that is domestic cooking and how it's gone from something a man should shun to being unthinkable a man can't cook at least some food for his family.
Your vest is rad, I always love your outfits!! And welcome to the Young One, the cat distribution system does what it do best
Ty for the video! :D
Love that *new cat smell*
lol.
I actually didn't know d'Eon was a real person, I read a manga about a fictionalized version of d'Eon when I was in middle school. It took the "girl whos parents forced them to live as a boy" angle, but still portrayed some complex gender feels.
is this referring to Rose of Versailles? because I know there's a whole anime that retcons Le Chevalier d'Éon's life by writing him as an identical twin to his late sister who sometimes possesses him when fencing people?? and she has past lovers that her brother gets tangled up with
@@wayfaringspacepoet Nope! It's literally called Le Chevalier d'Eon. It's a seinen manga by Ubukata Tow. My library had a few volumes of it.
There is an anime too
Lol the cat cries are on point. Mine does the same thing.
I Wondered when you would deal with d'Eon! Here it is; I'm so glad.
Wow - that story was way more complex than I thought it would be. But it's good because it is so important to keep conversation going. Human nature is complex. Maybe it is time to stop trying to simplify us. Thanks for presenting this story so clearly. I really enjoyed this video! Your new cat is adorable!
i recently saw a tiktok about Chevalier d'Eon and this has to be one of the most interesting people i have learned about recently.
That letter to the other Chevalier is heartbreaking. To be a woman who was maybe not AFAB in the 18th century really was mostly a downgrade. My heart grieves that the Chevalier d'Eon had to sacrifice something either way.
YESS i've been waiting for someone to talk about chevalier d'eon !!
Congrats on being chosen by the cat distribution system. Mila is gorgeous. Look in to something called Feliway. They have collars, wall plug in diffusers, sprays etc. It mimics a hormone their mothers produce. It helps keep them calm.
I first came to know about the Chevalier from an anime that takes a fantasy take of their life.
Great video! Lucky you that you have been chosen for cat life 😊
I watched that anime and fell into a rabbit hole after lol
Very interesting. I think it’s very much of note that in spite of the difficulties and limitations that d’Eon complained about in their experience of presenting as feminine, they still wanted to be recognised as female. I think that that definitely underlines the fact that living in a Transgender identity is neither easy nor a choice.
I also like the discussions about “being Trans” and how people have for so long attempted to fit cases into clearly separated pigeonholes. Whatever d’Eon was, maybe it doesn’t need definition. They were what they were - and I’m fairly sure they knew themselves a darn sight better that any set of academics arguing over centuries old remnants and clues.
Also, love the new trash baby! The cat distribution system has made the right choice!
Inversely I found their whole thing hella relatable cuz like I adore the feminine arts, feminine politics and feminine dress and yet I am a male. Like in my head. My brain tells me that my body is male should be male should have a penis etc. But I'm AFAB. 😶 it's a wild thing bc the day I accepted this part of myself was the day that the howling black hole in the back of my soul went quiet.
@@uarestrong76 that makes sense. Like all of these things, trying to live up to the expectations outlined by “disinterested observers” (those people that create the labels and definitions) can be incredibly harmful, while being allowed the time to look at one’s self and recognise what is actually there can bring great calm.
I appreciate your credits kitty time! Though I do love the old film clips you usually incorporate ❤
your cat is adorable aaaah (also excellent video as always!)
Also someone with an outsized personality: Kaz' adorable bundle of chaos
I had heard very minimal details, so I thought this person wasn't even real. This is such a cool episode. Long live D'eon!
Just when I thought I couldn't love your channel more, you pull my kitty-loving heart-strings! Congrats on being chosen, Kaz!
I just discovered your channel 4 days ago. I have literally watched all of your content…
I know you’re tired but I’m gonna need you to pick up the pace… 😂
Love your content!
THANK YOU for this 💚
Also : Hi Mila ! Welcome here 💚 my cats were very intrigued by the meows.
A friend of mine also has a tabby cat named Mila. They’re a very fierce cat, except when it’s Cuddle Time. Then they are a Big Purring Baby for like 30 minutes.
I named my first purry baby Mila, too 🥰
She was catnapped years ago, unfortunately. Now I have a sweet tortoiseshell rescue kitty that I named Galaxy 💖
Hi, Mila! Kaz of course comes out with a video to make me stop stressing over ww3.
hearing the little precious meows in the background !! ugh my heart 🥹🥹
Theres an awesome anime about this person so its fun to finally learn about the actual historical story of d'Eon
the baby making a huge fuss in the background is so cute hehe
How they retconned their past reminds me a lot about how many trans people speculate about how their lives would have been, if they had been able to live as their gender from they were young.
E.g. people who have photoalbums made with the appearant gender been growing up, switched. It helps them heal.
I wanted to talk about her in my channel but I'm too lazy to do it so THANK YOU I LOVE YOU
Ahh, I wondered when we'd get to The Chevalier d'Eon. It's an interesting topic. Glad you got around to it.
Also, I see you my fellow March baby. 😁