They are trying to pull the Victorinox but they are not Victorinox. Victorinox can have the same tools for 40 years and people will still buy it constantly. Leatherman can’t afford that. China is catching up to Leatherman at a fast pace and they have the biggest production of the world right now. I’m curious to see the situation evolve, in the end the client should be the winner, I hope. Genuinely don’t care if Leatherman gets the Gerber treatment and gets overlooked as a company in less than a decade.
@Clint Westwood completely agree, I had my mind set on a leatherman of some sort (probably surge) for a while. Lately though I've been leaning toward victorinox. Leatherman isn't doing anything to attract new customers, and tbh the Leathermans that I've owned in the past haven't been anything to write home about
Agreed. I’d love for Leatherman to explore something pocket sized (juice successor) that could potentially have variants with wire stripper heads and/or #11 Xacto blade holders. Even full sized models with different tools in them would be nice
Just take the surge tool set and make it juice size, so it doesn’t compete with either wave nor surge, but it’s better built than shitty SOG. Not so hard to do, instead of creating shitty SAKs competitors that are not even competitors lol
I agree. The thing with Leatherman is that they refuse to listen to us. That’s their Achilles heel. They do what THEY want to do and could care less what their customers want.
Agree. Leatherman is on the rope, and they are not Muhammed Ali. They can risk a knock out. I’m curious on how this will evolve. I’m still awed that Leatherman is letting SOG dominate the small/medium sized plier tool when they are using such low quality tool, Leatherman could take it so easily, but they look like a lazy company at this point, to me. Cheers.
Several of the contestants on the survival TV series "Alone" used a modified Leatherman Surge or Supertool 300 and I absolutely think Leatherman would sell a lot of those if they started making them at the factory in that modified survival / bushcraft form.
I’d take the leatherman juice xe6 for $39.99 during Black Friday anyday over this. By the way, love your videos! As a TH-cam maker, I think you have the best multitool videos by far!
I'm at the point where I refuse to buy a brand new Leatherman. Every Leatherman I bought in the last year has had some quality control issues. Stuck pliers heads, files bent from the factory, sloppy pliers, loose tools. If I can't buy it used and cheap I won't even bother anymore. It's annoying when you see videos of Leatherman saying how their tools will be made to keep up with the times but then you get a free p4 and they went crazy on adding flathead drivers. Flat heads are almost extinct no one uses them anymore. Then they raise prices while Chinese companies are making wave clones and the scarcity of the garage items. I'm dont try to collect leathermans anymore they're becoming and arrogant company while new companies are rising.
These are fantastic points. Making the target audience industry related would genuinely solve more problems than be simple cash grabs. They’ll get more innovation by efficiently solving problems. For civilians they could just allow us to customize from some base ‘frames’.
Great video as always! I think Leatherman primarily uses the Garage tools to explore new manufacturing options. For example, it looks like they used the DarkSide to learn more about DLC. The leaks the new Arc mention it incorporating DLC. I think the Batch 3/Parts was primarily used to research exchangeable blades -- I bet we will see that in future tools (if they thought it was viable). Of course, even if Leatherman is getting research value from the Garage I think it is mostly a tone-deaf branding misstep from a customer perspective. As they shift the conversation more towards Leatherman tools as super high-end collector's pieces they undermine the other features/perceptions of their brand that I think are more valuable such as the "useful", "for real work", etc.. That said, if Leatherm was to change the Garage to offering the product for a year (so anyone that wants it could get it) OR if they instituted a system where they sold the limited garage tools to their most loyal users who would actually use them and report back on their experience to further improve them, then I think the Garage could be a wildly successful R&D and branding effort for Leatherman. I can dream.
Couldn’t agree with you more . Besides the Mr crunch , the other special releases are a joke . Absolutely nothing that I would want on these except the chisel . Glad your doing well Ben . Love your channel pal .
I think anyone who watches this has already agreed with you. LM is great, carry a LM daily, but also feel them slipping in creativity. Will I still carry a LM a year from now? Probably. 2 years? Highly uncertain.
I guess they didnt make enough money on industry based tools. Also the swiss army knife they came out with is just stupid. They did a tool that Tim Leatherman wanted to avoid and improve on by creating Leatherman. Its fundamentally in contrast with the whole company in my opinion. Makes no sense at all.
I was thiiis close to buying the Bibury Pro Surge clone. In fact I placed the order on Amazon and cancelled it. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive, and it’s 40 bucks. I saw demo videos with the clone scissors easily outperforming those on the Surge, and it’s biggest advantage, for me at least, is its standard 1/4 bit driver. I think Leatherman would really do itself a great service by ditching the cheesy flat bits. Get rid of the small and large flat drivers to free up space and put in a 1/4 inch magnetic bit driver that accepts full sized double ended bits like the Wihas. Don’t see them doing it anytime soon though lol. In the end I will still get the Surge I think. I am looking for a multi tool that will spend most of its time in my gun tackle box for camping and trips to the range. For this purpose, the Surge may be overkill, but I like to have good stuff, and if I am gonna have one multi tool, I want the best there is.
Agree. Someone from reddit trimmed, literally, his wave, and called it micro wave. To be honest, had leatherman did that, I wouldn't think twice buying it.
1:28 Why would a customer pick this over a Swiss Army Knife? SAKs are more popular in Europe than in the US. They have more tools, are more compact, and are cheaper.
Have to agree, Leatherman should focus back and stick to what they are good at, making robust multitools. If I want something like a pocket knife nothing beats victorinox, pretty sure that goes for most Europeans.
Or maybe Leatherman is just running out of ideas. I'm not a collector I just have one multi-tool the Leatherman Wave Plus Leatherman king of them all 😎
I'm fairly new to the multi took game, I started out with a gerber center drive. I loved it so much that when I broke the pliers "my fault" and didn't want to wait on warranty, i bought a second pair. Now I have 2. The only downside is the wire cutters they suck. Then I was gifted a lethermen surge it took me a while to admit it, but it was superior to the center drive. It became my edc for aproxamently 2 years. For Christmas my wife bought me a victorinox Swiss tool mx clip and let me tell you it's small but very capable and by far superior to both competitors its smooth as butter and all the tools on the outside make it awesome sometimes I find myself just playing with it lol
I fully agree. Leatherman and benchmade use to be my go to companies. Now they are my last resorts. The garage lines are stupid to say the least. They are over priced and then having them limited to one per customer only to see people on Facebook posting pictures of two or more.
New to this realm and been watching basically all of your videos. Leatherman Charge+ in the mail. I think something that doesn’t get discussed much / something I kind of stumbled upon is Leatherman’s incredible discount program. 30% off for students, teachers, military, first responders, and healthcare. With these discounts and the projected longevity of the tool (well built + warranty) I think the knockoffs are a hard sell. Like I said I’m new here so I can understand how die hard long time users may be jaded, but I thought it was worth bringing up.
I bought one of the chinese knock-offs - Ozark Trails Multi-force. It broke before I used any tool on it. I was simply opening and closing it to break in the stiff action when one of the stop tabs for the pliers snapped. Unless someone - anyone attempts to deliver real quality alternatives rather than smoke and mirrors, Leatherman has nothing to worry about. I don't hear much complaint over Victorinox pricing which is comparable to LM. Quality will always cost more up front.... but comes back in the form of durability and resale (if needed).
I feel like Leatherman should focus on making updates to existing tools, like simply putting the Tom Sachs scale tools into the Charge/Wave series and not wasting it on a "special" Garage release. The Batch 3 exchangeable blade could also be implemented into regular multitools instead of being part of a Garage release. Mr Crunch, imo was the only good Leatherman Garage release. Leatherman has made many amazing, innovative, and interesting tools like the Raptor, Free Series, and the Tread. I feel like they should take their time on the more unique and innovative tools and have a dedicated team that takes in customer feedback and try implementing new ideas/fixes onto existing platforms.
IMO People overthink a lot what LM is doing and where is going..... They can't just see an MT with some features and a special edition. Period. Nothing else to sell, just a bit more particularly. This is not to take people's money obviously, prices are inside the fair pay. LM is doing a sandbox and fans get crazy
Hello, Ben - excellent video, thanks! You are spot on concerning the LTG...a sad state of affairs...it is too bad that are letting the company die away by inches like this...perhaps if nothing is done, TL might want to step back in & put a fire in the belly of the organization & get it off the dime...& he would have the help of the consumer base, he would only have to ask...although the LTG in the past few years have taken little notice of the apparent intense loyalty the base has for the brand...most unfortunate...
I love the idea of the Leatherman Garage but I'd rather see them use it as a way to try new designs (good or bad) to see how the market reacts to ingenuity and innovation.
YOU HAVE NEVER SAID A MORE TRUE WORD - I TOTALLY AGREE !!!!! Well said , I think Mr Tim L needs to get his design team back round the boardroom table or he’s gonna be pushed out of business……… They really need to re-think their tool line up. AND QUICK TOO
When did Tim Leatherman go off the rails? I carried the original PST until WAVE came out, WAVE ever since. Now I see Leatherman can copy a Swiss Army Knife. Whoopie.🙄
I don't have anything from the Leatherman Garbage, but do have some Leatherman products. It seems they substituted price for quality. There is NO EXCUSE for having such terrible scissors! Loosen the plier head a bit, and tighten the scissors pivot.
Exactly. The Leatherman Garage is just a moneygab based of artifical scarcity. They only innovate with the garage, and will never translate those thop the production line. So us mortals only get the same old stuff, and TH-camrs get the cool stuff. It's also extremelly dumb in terms of business practices and marketing: The brand already has the brand awareness and recognition. They just need to actually innovate on their production lines and we would throw fists of cash onto them. But they hate money or business growth. Also non-modular multitools is another way to try to force users to choose specific models. As you Mention, the GOAT tool company is already breathing down their neck and Leatherman hasn't even realized. I can't wait for other companies to take the torch, and turn Leatherman into a stagnating memory.
I see this argument of "why pay $140 when you could less than half at Wal-Mart of from China?" I thought there was a pride element to the EDC/blue collar/bushcraft etc sphere? I paid full-price for both of my waves that I've had in my life and I'd pay full-price again. If it means I can carry an American-made multi-tool in my pocket instead of something from China or elsewhere I will. Am I alone here?
They're selling to scalpers who are ebaying to collectors. Which is unfortunate. And you're dead right about price. They need to come down, there is too much premium.
Leatherman have always been greedy, they could always supply a pocket clip with the wave instead of charging $10, same as the driver extension for a whopping $26. They just take the piss out of the punter;
I feel like leatherman lost their way. They forgot what they were suppose to be. A pocket friendly quick fix tool. They're trying too hard with making everything to where you'll never need a tool box. That's not gonna happen. Their tools are also becoming more of a gimmick. Stick with what you know, what you're good at and what works. Simple, pocket friendly quick fix tools.
I agree with your comments about how Leatherman needs to improve and take risks, I think a lot of what the produce is redundant, and could be optimized to specific use cases like the mutt. But, I disagree with your comments on the Leatherman Garage. Well, specifically the Europe 75. I think each item in the garage line is trying something new. Could they have put in a bit driver or other cool new tool? Yes. Would it make it a ton more useful? Yes, but they know that. The Europe 75 is all about the body. It’s totally new. It takes existing tools from the free line, but puts it in, what I consider, a far more comfortable handle, and makes something better than the free T4. I personally don’t love the tool selection of the Europe 75, but I love the look and handle. I ask you this. If Leatherman were to replace the free T4 with this body and a bit driver rather than the the corkscrew, and better fold out tools, would the the Europe 75 be worth it as a POC? I say absolutely Yes!
If Gerber didn't look so cheesey (to me) And They put locks in things that make sense to have a lock on, I would buy them. Until then i think I'll pass....
Is anyone familiar with the Orteig Prize? It's what Lindbergh won for his solo flight across the atlantic. Why not have Leatherman hold a design contest for a tool? Big prize, Leatherman gets the rights for X years to produce it. Win-win. We get an excellent tool, Leatherman makes money, and somebody gets to design a Leatherman tool. Tell me why not?
Couldn’t agree more. Money grabs. For a lot of us in other parts of the world, the Leatherman tool has been an even more expensive buy. Yet the following never dwindled. This Leatherman Garage scene with obscenely low runs is frankly very irritating! Why don’t they just do a limited time run instead? That way we could also get a piece of the action.
I'm carrying a curl or a wave in my pocket at work everyday. Along with an Anker flashlight, a flathead phillips tech pocket screwdriver, a sharpie and a paint pen for torque striping. But I agree the brand has lost its way. The garage program is a pathetic cool kid popularity contest where it could be used for real r&d product development.
Leatherman has seemed to stray away from their initial customers. Gone are the days of focusing on tradesman. Now the focus is on younger EDC people who want fidget toys and not real tools. If I had a multitool with a deployable razor blade, bit driver, tweaker screwdriver, and a set of small shears for cutting labels and such in the field I'd be so happy. As it is I haven't found such a tool. I'd be stoked if a company came out with a multitool with one half of it like the BitBar Inline.
Disagree. It takes a lot of time to go from Garage to production models. Anywhere from 1-2 years for an operation the size of Leatherman. The purpose of the Garage to me seems to be to test the viability of new materials, finishes, and implements in small manufacturing, to see how it will work on a larger scale. While they're at it, they might as well make some money off it too to help offset R&D.
Couple that with their quality control going down the toilet, I’ll just stick with gerber. At least they are innovating, and finally put a pocket clip on the armbars lol
Leatherman needs to design a crescent wrench/ quarter inch socket driver multitool. Give it a different toolset that complements the wave/charge tools, like this type of tool would, instead of more redundancies and your golden..especially if they came out with good multi sockets.
Totally agree. Only reason I didn't get a free series is because I think they went backwards on the tools. They should have kept the bit exchanger and i preferred the old can opener. I think the surge is their best all round multi tool but is a bit too heavy for edc. Would like if they combined the surge tool set with the free series i would definitely consider buying it. Just my 2 cents
I agree. I have been increasingly disappointed. I was excited about the idea of the garage and a chance to see some new prototypes. But what they have brought to the garage is not innovative at all. I was hoping for new tools geared towards the trades. Something actually useful, and not a Swiss Army knife with a cork screw!
I guess it's hard to get real money from 1000 pcs sale no matter the price, most probably its margin is negative, just because you put R&D resources into this and can't save on scale during production.
I suggest you watch some seal rescue videos in regards to the raptor rescue whatever shears. It may be called a seat belt cutter but damn there is so much more it can cut on the fly the the shears simply arnt capable of under the conditions. Honestly I would hope leatherman sponsors those guys. They obviously purchase a hell of a lot of them.
*Couldn't agree more!* Leatherman is my favorite multitool company for many years now. *But,* For the past few or more years now..they have been a *constant source* of disappointment. I don't know who's been whispering in their ear as of late, but they need to distance themselves *immediately!* There are those who will love *anything* Leatherman puts out, but they have to *know* that most people (imo) are unhappy with the general direction the company has gone. It seems they plateaued at the Wave+, and then went downhill from there. Not only are the designs not good (or even aesthetically pleasing)...but the quality of the implements themselves are horrible, but yet they still charge alot for them, and the actual good tools they have left..have gone dramatically up in price.. *without* adding *any extra value* to them! I understand things cost more now, but $70 for a Wingman, *$50* for a *REV!* (which I can't believe they brought back, aside from the plier head themselves...the rest is junk) it's ridiculous. They *are* going *backwards,* but charging even more, every year... It's sad to see really.
I would like to see a tool based on an adjustable wrench with some drivers added. So far I only seen one from Troika but they are not a serious toolmaker so i doubt the quality.
@@lifewasting For 48 euro you also get a bit driver, knife, file, saw and a can opener. A German company mostly doing all kinds of gadgets and Volkswagen merchandise.
We lost our homefield advantage when we allowed China to cannabalize our technology and industries with their predatory pricing. I recently bought 3 workpro folding, locking utility knives for $10 off Amazon, very similar to the blade you showed that you carry and love.
yes you are acknowledging GOAT cant wait for your review on them Tex/Ben, also what about modifying a Multitoll by installing a small Marlin Spike a Multi Tool for the Sailor, Mariner, Rigger, etc
Look I have owned Leatherman, Gerber, SOG, and Victorinox at various times. Loved the Victorinox and Leatherman the best out of the 4. My biggest issue with the Europe 75 is the fact that Leatherman basically made a Victorinox SAK. The problem is Victorinox has already been doing that form factor for a few decades and doing it better.
Add scales to all Leatherman tools that will allow you to slip in what you want. Does not require redesign of most tools to adapt a scale to them. Radical idea - what if Goat Tool licensed Leatherman to produce a version of their tool? I know that that walks all over Leatherman as a DESIGNER of multi-tools, but as Ben said, "adapt or die." Somebody please point out the holes in my argument.
Excellent video, with info on models I never paid any attention too. 20+ years ago, I bought a Bucktool and I still have it. I like the utility knife you have; I recently purchased two JerryRigEverything knifes for my wife and I. That is one of the best I’ve ever seen or owned.
It would be great to know the compatibility of tools from one Leatherman model to another. Thickness isn't as critical as the locking type, etc. For example, I'd like to install different implements in my Crunch, but I'm not sure which model's tools would interchange with it. If you could do a video on interchangeability, or post the info somewhere that would be great.
Industry and tradesman are a very demanding crowd who will scrutinize a new tool with no mercy. While this may sound like a bad thing it is actually the best quality control and research a company can have as long as they listen. Catering to the gadget of the week crowd is going to produce feedback all over the scale to the point of being meaningless. I feel this is what is happening with Leatherman and they no longer recognize their loyal customers and are just listening to the self created hype. This deaf dragon syndrome can turn around and bite the company in the profit margin very quickly. You know your competition (SAK, Milwaukee, Knipex, Klein, etc) is always listening cuz that is what made them the competition.
Leatherman is definitely falling off and I love my wave but there just not keeping up with times, I also have the tirant 2 and LOVE IT! Carry it everyday at work doing heavy construction and its an amazing knife!
I was considering an upgrading from a Fuse to a Charge TTi + but the scissors look like they haven't improved at all which has made me turn my head to Victorinox
Leatherman will never be forgotten. Nobody would be making these without them having come up with the idea first. I’m not concerned with anything else like a utility knife, etc from Leatherman.
i wish there was just an upgrade knife blade replacement for ALL the models even the sidekicks the leatherman blades are like shapened butter knives an hold an edge about as long, would love replacement upgrades..........
Leatherman has been skating along on their name for a while it feels
They are trying to pull the Victorinox but they are not Victorinox. Victorinox can have the same tools for 40 years and people will still buy it constantly.
Leatherman can’t afford that.
China is catching up to Leatherman at a fast pace and they have the biggest production of the world right now.
I’m curious to see the situation evolve, in the end the client should be the winner, I hope.
Genuinely don’t care if Leatherman gets the Gerber treatment and gets overlooked as a company in less than a decade.
China is getting ahead because people keep buying it, If people would stop lifting, China would stop rising.
Absolutely correct! Vicky does not have the QC problems that the LTG has at times... if they keep "skating along", it will come back & bite them...
@Clint Westwood completely agree, I had my mind set on a leatherman of some sort (probably surge) for a while. Lately though I've been leaning toward victorinox. Leatherman isn't doing anything to attract new customers, and tbh the Leathermans that I've owned in the past haven't been anything to write home about
Craftsman tried that and looked what happened to them they almost disappeared forever
That Darkside pivot should be on all charge models imo.
Yes it should!
When will the Arc become a reality you think?
@@txtoolcrib honestly..... I have a really hard time believing that Leatherman is even going to make it in the 1st place.
Agreed. I’d love for Leatherman to explore something pocket sized (juice successor) that could potentially have variants with wire stripper heads and/or #11 Xacto blade holders.
Even full sized models with different tools in them would be nice
Just take the surge tool set and make it juice size, so it doesn’t compete with either wave nor surge, but it’s better built than shitty SOG.
Not so hard to do, instead of creating shitty SAKs competitors that are not even competitors lol
We need one designed for the Ironworker, the carpenter, the painter, etc...
...gardeners, tailors
I agree. The thing with Leatherman is that they refuse to listen to us. That’s their Achilles heel. They do what THEY want to do and could care less what their customers want.
Couldn't care less* agreed tho
And their multitool scissors are atrocious, except for the Raptor. Why sell a multitool and the scissors can barely cut anything?!
Spot on Ben.
Agree.
Leatherman is on the rope, and they are not Muhammed Ali. They can risk a knock out.
I’m curious on how this will evolve.
I’m still awed that Leatherman is letting SOG dominate the small/medium sized plier tool when they are using such low quality tool, Leatherman could take it so easily, but they look like a lazy company at this point, to me.
Cheers.
Several of the contestants on the survival TV series "Alone" used a modified Leatherman Surge or Supertool 300 and I absolutely think Leatherman would sell a lot of those if they started making them at the factory in that modified survival / bushcraft form.
I’d take the leatherman juice xe6 for $39.99 during Black Friday anyday over this. By the way, love your videos! As a TH-cam maker, I think you have the best multitool videos by far!
That’s very much appreciated, thank you.
@@txtoolcrib your welcome! Your videos are a golden standard to us all. I just do them for fun. Look forward to more of them
Tradesman inspired multi - tools would be a great idea
I'm at the point where I refuse to buy a brand new Leatherman. Every Leatherman I bought in the last year has had some quality control issues. Stuck pliers heads, files bent from the factory, sloppy pliers, loose tools. If I can't buy it used and cheap I won't even bother anymore. It's annoying when you see videos of Leatherman saying how their tools will be made to keep up with the times but then you get a free p4 and they went crazy on adding flathead drivers. Flat heads are almost extinct no one uses them anymore. Then they raise prices while Chinese companies are making wave clones and the scarcity of the garage items. I'm dont try to collect leathermans anymore they're becoming and arrogant company while new companies are rising.
These are fantastic points. Making the target audience industry related would genuinely solve more problems than be simple cash grabs. They’ll get more innovation by efficiently solving problems. For civilians they could just allow us to customize from some base ‘frames’.
Great video as always! I think Leatherman primarily uses the Garage tools to explore new manufacturing options. For example, it looks like they used the DarkSide to learn more about DLC. The leaks the new Arc mention it incorporating DLC. I think the Batch 3/Parts was primarily used to research exchangeable blades -- I bet we will see that in future tools (if they thought it was viable). Of course, even if Leatherman is getting research value from the Garage I think it is mostly a tone-deaf branding misstep from a customer perspective. As they shift the conversation more towards Leatherman tools as super high-end collector's pieces they undermine the other features/perceptions of their brand that I think are more valuable such as the "useful", "for real work", etc.. That said, if Leatherm was to change the Garage to offering the product for a year (so anyone that wants it could get it) OR if they instituted a system where they sold the limited garage tools to their most loyal users who would actually use them and report back on their experience to further improve them, then I think the Garage could be a wildly successful R&D and branding effort for Leatherman. I can dream.
Couldn’t agree with you more . Besides the Mr crunch , the other special releases are a joke . Absolutely nothing that I would want on these except the chisel . Glad your doing well Ben . Love your channel pal .
Your videos are excellent quality, concise and informative. Thank you, please keep it going
I think anyone who watches this has already agreed with you. LM is great, carry a LM daily, but also feel them slipping in creativity. Will I still carry a LM a year from now? Probably. 2 years? Highly uncertain.
I guess they didnt make enough money on industry based tools. Also the swiss army knife they came out with is just stupid. They did a tool that Tim Leatherman wanted to avoid and improve on by creating Leatherman. Its fundamentally in contrast with the whole company in my opinion. Makes no sense at all.
I was thiiis close to buying the Bibury Pro Surge clone. In fact I placed the order on Amazon and cancelled it. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive, and it’s 40 bucks. I saw demo videos with the clone scissors easily outperforming those on the Surge, and it’s biggest advantage, for me at least, is its standard 1/4 bit driver. I think Leatherman would really do itself a great service by ditching the cheesy flat bits. Get rid of the small and large flat drivers to free up space and put in a 1/4 inch magnetic bit driver that accepts full sized double ended bits like the Wihas. Don’t see them doing it anytime soon though lol. In the end I will still get the Surge I think. I am looking for a multi tool that will spend most of its time in my gun tackle box for camping and trips to the range. For this purpose, the Surge may be overkill, but I like to have good stuff, and if I am gonna have one multi tool, I want the best there is.
Agree. Someone from reddit trimmed, literally, his wave, and called it micro wave. To be honest, had leatherman did that, I wouldn't think twice buying it.
1:28 Why would a customer pick this over a Swiss Army Knife? SAKs are more popular in Europe than in the US. They have more tools, are more compact, and are cheaper.
Have to agree, Leatherman should focus back and stick to what they are good at, making robust multitools. If I want something like a pocket knife nothing beats victorinox, pretty sure that goes for most Europeans.
Or maybe Leatherman is just running out of ideas. I'm not a collector I just have one multi-tool the Leatherman Wave Plus Leatherman king of them all 😎
I'm fairly new to the multi took game, I started out with a gerber center drive. I loved it so much that when I broke the pliers "my fault" and didn't want to wait on warranty, i bought a second pair. Now I have 2. The only downside is the wire cutters they suck. Then I was gifted a lethermen surge it took me a while to admit it, but it was superior to the center drive. It became my edc for aproxamently 2 years. For Christmas my wife bought me a victorinox Swiss tool mx clip and let me tell you it's small but very capable and by far superior to both competitors its smooth as butter and all the tools on the outside make it awesome sometimes I find myself just playing with it lol
I fully agree. Leatherman and benchmade use to be my go to companies. Now they are my last resorts. The garage lines are stupid to say the least. They are over priced and then having them limited to one per customer only to see people on Facebook posting pictures of two or more.
New to this realm and been watching basically all of your videos. Leatherman Charge+ in the mail. I think something that doesn’t get discussed much / something I kind of stumbled upon is Leatherman’s incredible discount program. 30% off for students, teachers, military, first responders, and healthcare. With these discounts and the projected longevity of the tool (well built + warranty) I think the knockoffs are a hard sell. Like I said I’m new here so I can understand how die hard long time users may be jaded, but I thought it was worth bringing up.
You make an excellent point, and you are correct, it doesn’t get talked about enough.
Ben I’m so against leatherman after this bs. They are slowly but surely destroying their name.
I think you’re absolutely right!
I bought one of the chinese knock-offs - Ozark Trails Multi-force. It broke before I used any tool on it. I was simply opening and closing it to break in the stiff action when one of the stop tabs for the pliers snapped. Unless someone - anyone attempts to deliver real quality alternatives rather than smoke and mirrors, Leatherman has nothing to worry about. I don't hear much complaint over Victorinox pricing which is comparable to LM. Quality will always cost more up front.... but comes back in the form of durability and resale (if needed).
Haha my knock off broke just looking at it 🤣
I bought a Wave+ that came with a broken rivet that sprung out the first time I opened it. Good thing I checked everything in the store😢
The leatherman darkside doesn’t have the charge serrated blade with the “V” / gut shank. Kinda disappointed by that
I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this topic. 😎
🍿 🍿
I have the fixed blade Milwaukee/screw driver combo and that blows any leatherman out of the water. The 1/4” bit holder is tops.
Im hoping for a future leatherman squirt model
I feel like Leatherman should focus on making updates to existing tools, like simply putting the Tom Sachs scale tools into the Charge/Wave series and not wasting it on a "special" Garage release. The Batch 3 exchangeable blade could also be implemented into regular multitools instead of being part of a Garage release. Mr Crunch, imo was the only good Leatherman Garage release. Leatherman has made many amazing, innovative, and interesting tools like the Raptor, Free Series, and the Tread. I feel like they should take their time on the more unique and innovative tools and have a dedicated team that takes in customer feedback and try implementing new ideas/fixes onto existing platforms.
A multitool for tech work that implements 4mm bits.
Absolutely, great idea!
There is one. It's called the Cybertool, by Victorinox.
@@CharlesHeller I know. I have one. The point is that Leatherman should have something similar.
IMO People overthink a lot what LM is doing and where is going.....
They can't just see an MT with some features and a special edition. Period. Nothing else to sell, just a bit more particularly. This is not to take people's money obviously, prices are inside the fair pay. LM is doing a sandbox and fans get crazy
I’m waiting for my GOAT Multi-tool myself ! 👍
Hello, Ben - excellent video, thanks! You are spot on concerning the LTG...a sad state of affairs...it is too bad that are letting the company die away by inches like this...perhaps if nothing is done, TL might want to step back in & put a fire in the belly of the organization & get it off the dime...& he would have the help of the consumer base, he would only have to ask...although the LTG in the past few years have taken little notice of the apparent intense loyalty the base has for the brand...most unfortunate...
Meh
"Gone are the days..." INDEED. Latest release from the Garbage....errr... Garage is so unappealing.
I love the idea of the Leatherman Garage but I'd rather see them use it as a way to try new designs (good or bad) to see how the market reacts to ingenuity and innovation.
I'm glad you mentioned the goat tool because I am very curious to see how that plays out!
YOU HAVE NEVER SAID A MORE TRUE WORD - I TOTALLY AGREE !!!!! Well said , I think Mr Tim L needs to get his design team back round the boardroom table or he’s gonna be pushed out of business………
They really need to re-think their tool line up. AND QUICK TOO
I really enjoy your presentations! That Raptor is awesome!
Nice video mate 🥃
When did Tim Leatherman go off the rails? I carried the original PST until WAVE came out, WAVE ever since. Now I see Leatherman can copy a Swiss Army Knife. Whoopie.🙄
Tirant razor has been a game changer for me.
I don't have anything from the Leatherman Garbage, but do have some Leatherman products. It seems they substituted price for quality.
There is NO EXCUSE for having such terrible scissors! Loosen the plier head a bit, and tighten the scissors pivot.
Exactly. The Leatherman Garage is just a moneygab based of artifical scarcity.
They only innovate with the garage, and will never translate those thop the production line. So us mortals only get the same old stuff, and TH-camrs get the cool stuff.
It's also extremelly dumb in terms of business practices and marketing: The brand already has the brand awareness and recognition. They just need to actually innovate on their production lines and we would throw fists of cash onto them. But they hate money or business growth.
Also non-modular multitools is another way to try to force users to choose specific models. As you Mention, the GOAT tool company is already breathing down their neck and Leatherman hasn't even realized.
I can't wait for other companies to take the torch, and turn Leatherman into a stagnating memory.
I see this argument of "why pay $140 when you could less than half at Wal-Mart of from China?" I thought there was a pride element to the EDC/blue collar/bushcraft etc sphere? I paid full-price for both of my waves that I've had in my life and I'd pay full-price again. If it means I can carry an American-made multi-tool in my pocket instead of something from China or elsewhere I will. Am I alone here?
They're selling to scalpers who are ebaying to collectors. Which is unfortunate. And you're dead right about price. They need to come down, there is too much premium.
Leatherman have always been greedy, they could always supply a pocket clip with the wave instead of charging $10, same as the driver extension for a whopping $26. They just take the piss out of the punter;
The want to go the same directions same as victorinox....limited/special edition one after another...but charge you with insane price 😂
Leatherman could take a look at a company like Spyderco
Innovate, continue to improve, and listens/follows customer trends.
I feel like leatherman lost their way. They forgot what they were suppose to be. A pocket friendly quick fix tool. They're trying too hard with making everything to where you'll never need a tool box. That's not gonna happen. Their tools are also becoming more of a gimmick. Stick with what you know, what you're good at and what works. Simple, pocket friendly quick fix tools.
I agree with your comments about how Leatherman needs to improve and take risks, I think a lot of what the produce is redundant, and could be optimized to specific use cases like the mutt. But, I disagree with your comments on the Leatherman Garage. Well, specifically the Europe 75. I think each item in the garage line is trying something new. Could they have put in a bit driver or other cool new tool? Yes. Would it make it a ton more useful? Yes, but they know that. The Europe 75 is all about the body. It’s totally new. It takes existing tools from the free line, but puts it in, what I consider, a far more comfortable handle, and makes something better than the free T4. I personally don’t love the tool selection of the Europe 75, but I love the look and handle. I ask you this. If Leatherman were to replace the free T4 with this body and a bit driver rather than the the corkscrew, and better fold out tools, would the the Europe 75 be worth it as a POC? I say absolutely Yes!
If Gerber didn't look so cheesey (to me)
And
They put locks in things that make sense to have a lock on, I would buy them.
Until then i think I'll pass....
Is anyone familiar with the Orteig Prize? It's what Lindbergh won for his solo flight across the atlantic. Why not have Leatherman hold a design contest for a tool? Big prize, Leatherman gets the rights for X years to produce it. Win-win. We get an excellent tool, Leatherman makes money, and somebody gets to design a Leatherman tool. Tell me why not?
Couldn’t agree more. Money grabs. For a lot of us in other parts of the world, the Leatherman tool has been an even more expensive buy. Yet the following never dwindled. This Leatherman Garage scene with obscenely low runs is frankly very irritating!
Why don’t they just do a limited time run instead? That way we could also get a piece of the action.
I'm carrying a curl or a wave in my pocket at work everyday. Along with an Anker flashlight, a flathead phillips tech pocket screwdriver, a sharpie and a paint pen for torque striping. But I agree the brand has lost its way. The garage program is a pathetic cool kid popularity contest where it could be used for real r&d product development.
Leatherman has seemed to stray away from their initial customers. Gone are the days of focusing on tradesman. Now the focus is on younger EDC people who want fidget toys and not real tools. If I had a multitool with a deployable razor blade, bit driver, tweaker screwdriver, and a set of small shears for cutting labels and such in the field I'd be so happy. As it is I haven't found such a tool. I'd be stoked if a company came out with a multitool with one half of it like the BitBar Inline.
Disagree. It takes a lot of time to go from Garage to production models. Anywhere from 1-2 years for an operation the size of Leatherman. The purpose of the Garage to me seems to be to test the viability of new materials, finishes, and implements in small manufacturing, to see how it will work on a larger scale. While they're at it, they might as well make some money off it too to help offset R&D.
Couple that with their quality control going down the toilet, I’ll just stick with gerber. At least they are innovating, and finally put a pocket clip on the armbars lol
Leatherman needs to design a crescent wrench/ quarter inch socket driver multitool. Give it a different toolset that complements the wave/charge tools, like this type of tool would, instead of more redundancies and your golden..especially if they came out with good multi sockets.
Totally agree. Only reason I didn't get a free series is because I think they went backwards on the tools. They should have kept the bit exchanger and i preferred the old can opener. I think the surge is their best all round multi tool but is a bit too heavy for edc. Would like if they combined the surge tool set with the free series i would definitely consider buying it. Just my 2 cents
I agree. I have been increasingly disappointed. I was excited about the idea of the garage and a chance to see some new prototypes. But what they have brought to the garage is not innovative at all. I was hoping for new tools geared towards the trades. Something actually useful, and not a Swiss Army knife with a cork screw!
I guess it's hard to get real money from 1000 pcs sale no matter the price, most probably its margin is negative, just because you put R&D resources into this and can't save on scale during production.
Dam had no idea that Tom Sachs existed. Would love to have it, although I'm sure I wouldn't love the price.
You make a great point. I cannot believe that LM has discontinued the Juice and the Style and have not made replacements to fill that gap.
I suggest you watch some seal rescue videos in regards to the raptor rescue whatever shears. It may be called a seat belt cutter but damn there is so much more it can cut on the fly the the shears simply arnt capable of under the conditions. Honestly I would hope leatherman sponsors those guys. They obviously purchase a hell of a lot of them.
I prefere to carry a victorinox and a pair of cheap pliers and this combo outclass any of my leatherman (at least for me)
I hear that Victorinox is retiring a number of their models. Probably for the same reason.
Great wording, money grab for sure! Hope they wake up before it's to late.
Well said Ben, my hat's off to ya! Thanks and Cheers!
I’m so glad a channel of your size makes these videos. I wish leatherman would listen.
another feedback is the naming of leatherman models, aside from mutt and signal it seems like they are naming soda pops.
those are hand made, it takes longer than a year to perfect quality control on a mass level
They couldn’t give me anything like the GOAT.
Feels like leatherman has gone woke and live in ivory tower.
If they make the Arc it may address some of these issues.
The last two garage releases were a total joke.
Get the DL30 surge clone please
What do you think is next for the garage?
As long as it's not made in China is my policy.
Legendarily crappy QC and steel in China 🇨🇳 ....still.
…Sent from my iPhone
Best tool on the Raptor is the ring cutter.
I traded up for a victorinox evo.
*Couldn't agree more!*
Leatherman is my favorite multitool company for many years now.
*But,*
For the past few or more years now..they have been a *constant source* of disappointment.
I don't know who's been whispering in their ear as of late, but they need to distance themselves *immediately!*
There are those who will love *anything* Leatherman puts out, but they have to *know* that most people (imo) are unhappy with the general direction the company has gone.
It seems they plateaued at the Wave+, and then went downhill from there.
Not only are the designs not good (or even aesthetically pleasing)...but the quality of the implements themselves are horrible, but yet they still charge alot for them, and the actual good tools they have left..have gone dramatically up in price.. *without* adding *any extra value* to them! I understand things cost more now, but $70 for a Wingman, *$50* for a *REV!* (which I can't believe they brought back, aside from the plier head themselves...the rest is junk) it's ridiculous.
They *are* going *backwards,* but charging even more, every year...
It's sad to see really.
I would like to see a tool based on an adjustable wrench with some drivers added. So far I only seen one from Troika but they are not a serious toolmaker so i doubt the quality.
I would like to see a high quality adjustable wrench multitool tool also!
@@lifewasting For 48 euro you also get a bit driver, knife, file, saw and a can opener. A German company mostly doing all kinds of gadgets and Volkswagen merchandise.
We lost our homefield advantage when we allowed China to cannabalize our technology and industries with their predatory pricing. I recently bought 3 workpro folding, locking utility knives for $10 off Amazon, very similar to the blade you showed that you carry and love.
yes you are acknowledging GOAT cant wait for your review on them Tex/Ben, also what about modifying a Multitoll by installing a small Marlin Spike a Multi Tool for the Sailor, Mariner, Rigger, etc
Look I have owned Leatherman, Gerber, SOG, and Victorinox at various times. Loved the Victorinox and Leatherman the best out of the 4. My biggest issue with the Europe 75 is the fact that Leatherman basically made a Victorinox SAK. The problem is Victorinox has already been doing that form factor for a few decades and doing it better.
Victorianox is #1
Hi Ben. I agree with you.
The supertool 300 is my edc and if they come out with a Supertool300 with tweezers on it, I'll buy it immediately.
No one listens bro.
Add scales to all Leatherman tools that will allow you to slip in what you want. Does not require redesign of most tools to adapt a scale to them. Radical idea - what if Goat Tool licensed Leatherman to produce a version of their tool? I know that that walks all over Leatherman as a DESIGNER of multi-tools, but as Ben said, "adapt or die." Somebody please point out the holes in my argument.
Excellent video, with info on models I never paid any attention too. 20+ years ago, I bought a Bucktool and I still have it.
I like the utility knife you have; I recently purchased two JerryRigEverything knifes for my wife and I. That is one of the best I’ve ever seen or owned.
It would be great to know the compatibility of tools from one Leatherman model to another. Thickness isn't as critical as the locking type, etc. For example, I'd like to install different implements in my Crunch, but I'm not sure which model's tools would interchange with it. If you could do a video on interchangeability, or post the info somewhere that would be great.
Industry and tradesman are a very demanding crowd who will scrutinize a new tool with no mercy. While this may sound like a bad thing it is actually the best quality control and research a company can have as long as they listen. Catering to the gadget of the week crowd is going to produce feedback all over the scale to the point of being meaningless. I feel this is what is happening with Leatherman and they no longer recognize their loyal customers and are just listening to the self created hype. This deaf dragon syndrome can turn around and bite the company in the profit margin very quickly. You know your competition (SAK, Milwaukee, Knipex, Klein, etc) is always listening cuz that is what made them the competition.
Leatherman is definitely falling off and I love my wave but there just not keeping up with times, I also have the tirant 2 and LOVE IT! Carry it everyday at work doing heavy construction and its an amazing knife!
I was considering an upgrading from a Fuse to a Charge TTi + but the scissors look like they haven't improved at all which has made me turn my head to Victorinox
Leatherman will never be forgotten. Nobody would be making these without them having come up with the idea first. I’m not concerned with anything else like a utility knife, etc from Leatherman.
i wish there was just an upgrade knife blade replacement for ALL the models even the sidekicks the leatherman blades are like shapened butter knives an hold an edge about as long, would love replacement upgrades..........