Do Road Tubeless Benefits Outweigh The Negatives?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2022
- Messy, expensive and compatibility issues, it’s a wonder tubeless is even being talked about in the road cycling world but do the benefits outweigh the negatives? If you’re pondering a tubeless upgrade it’s worth being aware of some of the pitfalls that might be waiting for you…
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Been tubless for the last 25000 miles, I've used 4 plugs in that time, one of those was for another rider.
Would never go back to tubes. Lost track of little punctures I've had and not had to stop for as the sealant worked.
do you continue to run the patched tyre or you just change to a new one when you get back home?
@@willytseng8504 I've Always run the tyre till its worn out.
Same here, but with sealant in tubes. No flats. No expensive tires bought.
Which tires are you using?
@instaminox I've tried most, but my 3 favourite are schwalbe one, conti gp5000 AS, and vittoria Corsa Pro.
Been tubeless 4-5 years now. Haven’t flatted in years. Comfort factor is big plus as well. Good review.
Goggle the blind test between tubeless and tubed, riders were sure they could tell the difference, and were wrong as much as they were right....the comfort factor is in the mind.....saleswork is what a lot of tubeless reviews are about. "buy this" no matter the cost.
@@bradsanders6954
Second this. I'm using Latex tubes and no flats the last years - Smooth rolling. (haven't had flats with butyl neither)
I assume the tires matters most.
I'm happy with tubeless on MTB and Gravel, easy installation and maintenance, but on a roadbike price and ease of (on tour) maintenance for non-pro-riders go tube-type.
It's not worth the hassle.
been tubeless for less than 2 month. got rear tire blowout on a flat paved surface when commuting to work
I'm on four years of riding tubeless on the road and I've never flatted. I have seen several punctures automatically seal while I'm riding, and many more have likely happened that I didn't even notice. Also, all of the complaining about installing tires is really only true the first or second time you do a tubeless setup. After you've developed a process, it's really only a little harder than installing a tubed tire. To check if you have sealant, just shake the wheel and listen. This is not a big deal. Lastly, the benefits of road tubeless: more grip, more comfort, less rolling resistance, fewer flats etc are not minor or negligible.
Me too. No brainer to go tubeless.
what do I listen to? whats the sound? lol
Totally agree
Needs more chemicals less environmentaly friendly though.
@@chriss6971 how so?, ur not manufacturing tunbes or throwing them in the garbage.
Very fair presentation. I’ve gone tubeless on my road bike for about a year. I’ve experienced some of these issues but my technique is getting better. I don’t think I will be going back, but a bit of a learning curve for sure.
I've gone tubeless about a year ago as well, not willing to go back any soon.
I’ve been running tubeless for the past two years, because I bought a bike with tubeless ready rims. I had the shop install tubeless tires, and that was that. I’m on my second set of tires. Both were different brands (Specialized and Pirelli), the second of which I mounted myself with no problem. (I’ve changed countless tubes over the years, and I found mounting tubeless tires a lot easier.)
When the first set came off, I could see all the little spots where I would have flatted if I was running tubes! I regularly refill the sealant (Orange) via a tube that fits snugly over the stem with the valve removed, so there’s little or no mess. I don’t know what the use case is where you have to pour in the sealant in before mounting, but that sounds like faulty product design or bad instructions.
In that two years, I’ve had zero punctures. I’m running 28mm tired, so pressure is not an issue. Downside is that tubeless tire are expensive! However, I’m never going back to tubes. The peace of mind and ease of use is totally worth it.
There's a new sealant from Silca which contains such large chunks of carbon fibre that you literally can't pump it through the valve stem. It's designed to help with punctures and holes >6.5mm. admittedly that's a limited use case, but there are reasons to add sealant to a tyre which hasn't been seated yet.
You said you had the shop mount the tires, but then you say tubeless tires are much easier to mount than tubed tires..............nobody thinks tubeless tires arent a tight fit to a rim............some are near impossible when new......if a person doesnt know the trick he will break tire levers quickly. there is no ease of use with tubeless. 1 oz of sealant in a tube works just the same with stopping flats.....................once you've had a major failure with tubeless it can become very clear, and it for sure happens. It can be a long old hike home.
Been tubeless on my road bike since 2017. Had a few issues with first Giant branded 25 mm tires. Always bring a tube - came to prefer bringing a small pump over CO2. Only pickup was when a spoke pierced the rim tape. Upgraded rim tape. Next flat came when tires were worn out and I had flat on a road that was chip sealed and several others also had flats. Put GP5000 28mm on - way tight fit! Shop helped. Worn rear out and switched to Perelli PZero TLR on some used Hunt rims. Way easier than lower end Giant rims. No issues.
@@bradsanders6954 I installed tubeless tires myself, with a floor pump and a milkit canister, a set of Schwalbe Pro ones (tire destroyed by a large screw) and a set of Pirelli Cinturato Velo (going strong thousands of km later with zero flats)
@@bradsanders6954 the OP said he had his LBS mount the first set of tires, but that he had changed them since. As far as getting a flat, and “a long walk home,” that’s a total non problem: ride tubeless and carry a spare tube for the off chance you have a failure. You get the benefits of lower pressure and better rolling resistance and you’re covered in case the sealant doesn’t seal a puncture.
I've given up on tubeless on my road and gravel bikes. I used tubeless on my road bike for 10 years, but the last few times I did puncture, the higher pressure meant sealant sprayed everywhere and the tire still went flat. And then there was the extended time once or twice a year to scrape off the dried sealant from the rim and tire (I didn't want to just keep adding more each time). On my gravel bike, I couldn't get a proper seal between the tires I chose (tubeless ready) and the rims. Overall, just too much hassle. So I went to the new, very light, TPU inner tubes. They're expensive, but my favorite thing with them is they lose pressure _very_ slowly. I now pump up my tires once or twice a week, compared to every day with tubeless.
I agree that tubeless is not worth it. Which brand of TPU inner tube? From the reviews, they all seem to have major issues.
@@shibaburn7725
Pirelli Cinturato SmarTUBE Gravel Tube for my gravel bike. Pirelli P Zero SmarTUBE 700c Road Tube for my road bike. Using them with Vittoria Corsa Control G2.0 Tires on both bikes.
@@un8548 $40/tube seems ridiculous. I'm tempted to order from a small brand from AliExpress for under $10/tube.
my experience is that not all sealant works well on all tyres. if it seals its great, if not its nightmare. 2nd thing is that tubeless only fix small punctures. i totally understand different people have drastically different experience.
I tried tubeless tyres and hated them. The main issues for me were, as David said, the difficulty of seating the tire (very difficult indeed), and especially the gooey mess. In addition, I like to run higher pressures; I know many people think this is a bad idea, but rolling resistance is actually a real thing. I found virtually no weight or performance advantages with a tubeless setup. Until they come up with commonly available tubeless tyres with no sealant requirement, that seat onto a wheel fairly easily, and can run 90 PSI without danger of blowing off the rim, I want nothing more to do with them.
Agree! I tried them and couldn’t stand them. Too much work and when they do fail on the road, good luck getting a tube to work.
Definitely depends on the rims and rider preference. I've had tubeless for years and had no problem seating the tire with a normal floor pump on my DT Swiss wheels. One factor though is that I'm pretty light at 64kg, I don't really need to run high pressures. Especially since rural roads here tend to be not so smooth so it's actually more optimal to ride at lower pressures here as you lose more speed from tanking bumps on the road than purely rolling resistance. This has been even tested where if the roads aren't velodrome smooth, you actually can end up faster running at lower pressures since you lose less energy from bumps.
I pump sealant directly to the valve so I don't get the mess issue and bring tire plugs to deal with bigger holes which I've only used once in my years of riding.
Converted to tubeless a few years back and enjoy it very much. The ability to run wider tires at lower pressures is great for me.
You can do just the same with a tube in it lol. If you feed in the tyre width and tyre type into the Silca settings app they result in more or less the same pressures for tubed or tubeless . lower pressures are faster only on rougher road surfaces where road vibration slow the rolling rates. On a track where they only go on very smooth tracks they only use 19 mm width and 150 lb or more on tubuler tyres. They have the timings to know which is fastest.
I love your videos. The most trustable cycling TH-camr who understands the average cyclist!
Yep, gotta say I’ve never had an issue running tubeless, apart from one occasion which was down to me over inflating my gravel tyres (forgot to change the setting on my pump from my roadie).
The foam inserts you mentioned did absolutely nothing, and my carbon rim on my Zipp 303 smashed into the tarmac.
As long as you keep on top of maintaining the sealant, they’re not an issue.
Exactly...
You nailed it. Most road riders dont work on their own bikes these days, maybe racers do. Most I talk to take their high dollar roadbike in to the shop to have all maintenance done................so they tend to have no idea whats really going on with their tires.
And why should they? Who wants to do all this crap with tires just to ride a bike? I'm sure racers really need tubeless for the imagined performance benefits.........that extra 0. 3456 % of less rolling resistance.............Ive had every tubeless failure there is, but I still run it on 2 out of 3 bikes. Mainly the mt bike is worth running tubeless.
@@bradsanders6954 nothing to do with performance.
Most of my puncture problems were down to small holes and pinch flats due to crappy/poorly maintained road surfaces.
Tubeless solved that for me.
But in fairness, I do a lot of my own work, and yes I do race, and yes four of my bikes are “high dollar” S-Works bikes, even my training bike (not S-Works), is running SRAM AXS & Zipp 303’s.
@@colinb8327 I just ride, 150 to 175 miles a week. Ive had enough tubeless failures and fixed others tubeless failures, I tend to wonder, why? Ive gone 3 years running sealant in tubes with no flats. ................Ive had tubeless tires lose the seal to the rim, and it all pukes out. Just not sure if its worth the hassle. And expense. It seems neat but no real advantage running tubeless on roadbike. Mt bike yeah its worth it.
@@bradsanders6954 it’s individual preference.
Only time I ever had an issue was through my own stupidity when I overinflated. Other than that, proper rims, with the correct tyre and size, and they aren’t a problem.
Tubeless would not be worth the hassle, cost, and mess for me. I've got 8 bikes - I like the variety of riding different bikes on different days. Converting all to tubeless would be a MAJOR hassle due to time and expense. Maintenance would almost be like a part-time job. My solution? Thorn resistant tubes. Yes, more expensive and heavier, but that just means a little more exercise. Haven't had a flat since converting and I have the ease and simplicity of using a tube.
What maintenance are you even talking about? Yea, topping off some sealant every few months is so hard.
@@adrianc6534 Yes, it is a pain... then multiply by 8 bikes.
Got a nail through a new GP5000 TR yesterday. It was topped up with sealant, but the hole was apparently too big to seal at ~2.5mm. I put in a plug, but as soon as it got to a rideable pressure, the plug blew out. I added more sealant and it held at 30psi for about 5 mins at a time, so I managed to limp home, but the tire is for the bin. Replaced with a tube option. I’ve used tubeless in my MTB and DH bikes for years, but this just doesn’t make sense for the road due to the higher pressures and lack of volume.
Finally honesty on the topic 👍, too much possible and not enough practical, for gravel and mountain bike it's great low PSI wide tires rides like a dream...for road a TPU inner tube or a good latex inner tube on a road bike is just easy and better
Wrong LOL.
Correct
Exactly. I had a lot problems runnin tubeless on my road bike but it's been awesome on my mountain bikes.
I ride only road bikes, and I'll stick with tubes. I recently installed a set of Asian-made TPU tubes into one of my road bikes for testing, and they seem to be working just fine. Even though I do a lot of my riding within a mile of my house (laps on a circuit), I've got another set in my seat bag, along with a CO2 inflation system. If I leave the neighborhood, I'm with a group and/or I carry my phone so I can call for a ride if I must. Finally, whom do you know who rides tubeless and _does not_ carry a tube anyway?
(hint) just run an oz or two of sealant in the tubes. Works great.
Almost every rider that I know? We just carry plugs, and if that fail we just dial transport to ferry us back.
With how reliable tubeless is, it makes little sense to carry tubes around. Id understand carrying a spare tube if I used tubes though; tubes have crap reliability and response to a puncture.
I have tubeless MTB tyres but for me it's a pain for road use.
Actually the same
Same experience for me. The biggest problem for tubeless on the road is the pressure is too high. MTB tubeless allows you to run low pressures for grip and not get pinch punctures.
Went tubeless on my BMC Roadmachine in 2016, and never had a flat, ever. Or maybe i had, but the sealant (Orange Seal Endurance) must have sealed it then i assume. Anyway, never noticed a thing.
Went tubeless two years ago. First six months or so were a learning process with spilled sealant, impossible to mount tyres, tyres that wouldn’t seal to the wheel, and leaky punctures, but I think I have it cracked now.
I've found the key is to be patient.
haha, You THINK lol.But you could just as well have lowed the pressures on the tubes ( with sealant added if you like ) and gone to wider tyres for the same benefit on ROUGHER road surfaces. The benefits of lower pressures and wider tryes only ever apply to rougher road surfaces.Smooth roads and track racing then easily the fastest is 19 mm tubuler and 150 lbs pressure..Nothing has changed .But you ve been sold more expensive gear and tyres whcih is the whole point of it all
Just refill my tubeless tires with more sealant (20ml). Remember to check your sealant levels after the summer. Depending on the heat and humidity, the sealant will dry out quicker
I live in a very dry area so I have to check all year around. I have a reminder every 2 months, on more humid areas every 4 or 6 months should be OK.
Even with that I will not go back to tubes
20 Mill is far to little. Put 100 mill in
@@topbanana4013 are you adding weight as you keep adding more sealant? 1 ml weighs about 1 gram.
Great stuff once again David! Love your channel bud 👊🏻👊🏻
Road tubeless since 2017, mostly with Stan’s sealant. Unfortunately, it didn’t seal well at road pressures on tires that had flatted, even with usable tread left. I just recently moved to Silca sealant. It’s much more effective! So much so that you have to pour it in. It would seal the injector!
I have a near-dead tire that would have been trash with Stan’s, but still runs (losing a few psi) with Silca.
One tip: set a calendar alert on your phone for three months after you add sealant. Keep up the maintenance. If you can avoid a bad flat, tire life goes way up.
I went tubeless in 2017 and never looked back. I’ve had tyres from Conti ( Ow my thumbs!) Schwalbe, Hutchinson, Giant and the F1 the same as yours.
I have had about 4/5 fails in about 5 years which is not too bad. When I say fails I mean ride ending fails-these have been a mix of :
*The hole/ slash has been too big to seal.
*Not getting the tyre off to fit a tube.
*Not being able to remove the valve as it’s seized up at the lock ring.
*Not having enough CO2 to get going again.
Some of that is my fault, so overall that’s not too bad. Tubeless has saved me a LOT of roadside tube changes as most punctures just fix themselves without me knowing.
And yes, I now carry a mini pump and check the valve lock rings regularly now!
I have ridden tubeless tires for the past season and I love it! I'm using continental GP5000TL in combination with Quasar QS55 wheels (home brand of my local bike shop in the Netherlands) and it works flawlessly. Have had 1 puncture seal so far and it did an amazing job sealing in no time.
I m using the same tyres, with tubes, with sealant and same lowered pressures because of the rougher roads I ride on.Lower pressures only apply for rougher surfaces.On smooth roads narrow rims 19 mm and 150 lbs pressure is far far faster as EVERY track rider knows .You have been fooled ?
I get maybe 350 miles on a GP5000 tire, for some reason they cut really easy and get thrown away, it must depend on the roads one rides on.
Tubes for me. Particularly because of the need to carry a spare tube in the saddle bag regardless of what type of tyre your using. Only takes me about 5 min to replace a tube. No problem.
as great as it is to ride tubeless, as expensive and dangerous as it can be. from my own long experience. usually you don't get holes through sharp objects (Nails) but on sharp edges of stones or broken glass. These usually larger cuts over 2-3mm+ in length are difficult to repair with hoseworms. I've already had the case twice that after braking or cornering on tar, the worm pullet out of the tire and the air was out in a matter of seconds. which is very dangerous especially on the front wheel when that happens. at best only the rim is for the garbage, even worse if you slide meter by meter over the asphalt or Gravel and the Carbo frame is also a case for the dustbin afterwards and You self ä case for the hospital. as soon as such a cut is in the tire, one is only usable and safe in the long run with a tube. Tubles is big business with small benefits but big risks and costs.I drive again with fun and tube
Did you try dynaplug?. That stuff is designed for motorcycles and there is a little version for cycling. More expensive than bacon strips but the thing stays in place
@@LainOTN Already tried. Yes, that holds. But the tire sounds and rolls as if the spokes were torn and from the second plug at the latest the tire is scrap. Absolutely only for emergencies to get home. But I'm talking about road and gravel tires here. I don't care about MTB tires.
Depends on the point of view:
If saying tubeless is expensive, one has to compare it with equivalent alternatives in terms of rolling resistance, comfort and speed: polymer inner tubes, latex tubes, tubulars. Probably latex tubes are the less costly way of those.
And speaking of messy, yes it can become a mess, but so can be installing a bottom bracket - not done carefully it totally wrecks your frame.
I.e. tubeless setups should be done dry first, than add the sealant for the last bit if air tightness.
And speaking of cost in general has to be done in relation to the total of the cost, e.g. the benefits of carbon frames and rims would never outweigh their weaknesses (litterally) and higher costs.
Latex tube will give you the same experience with lower cost. Tube or tubeless is really depends on individual luck. Many tube rider never had a flat for years, same goes to tubeless rider. In my experience i had seen many tubeless failed more than inner tube. So can i say tube is better? No, it will happen to inner tube too...end of the day, tubeless didn't live the HYPE.
@@departurexx1520 I agree with you about latex tubes. Otherwise totally missed my point but whatever.
For me the biggest issue with tubeless is the availability of the tires. Now especially with the hookless ones it is almost impossible to find size, tubeless and hookless at the same time.
And the ones you recommended Vittoria n.exts have 2018 rolling resistance numbers so they are out of question :s
I've been riding tubeless for about 3 years now on road, gravel and trail bikes. I've only had one issue on the gravel bike but I put that down to old sealant. It didn't seal the puncture properly and kept weeping out until I set my thumb on it and turned the so the puncture in down and it sealed up
Completed races, Gran Fondos and club rides without even knowing (at the time) I’ve punctured thanks to tubeless sealant. While not perfect, I’m definitely converted.
Also, Orange Seal was best of the bunch imo
Tubeless sealant really needs to improve before I try it again. I’ve found that more than half the time the hole doesn’t seal, even with small thorn punctures. I’m back on tubes because I don’t want to deal with the mess on the roadside. Tubes are easier to install when not dealing with the sealant mess! I’m interested in trying TPU tubes.
Another great vid. Thanks Dave
Been tubeless on the MTB for 8 years + and almost 5 on road (going from tubular's) , would never go back to tubes. But always carry a spare tube, just in case! 👍
What some may be forgetting is that not everyone is a do it yourselfer and also only own 1 bike. As a shop wrench I see customers that get frustrated having to constantly return when having tubeless issues and down time not being able to ride. If they have to replace a tire then it starts to seem expensive as they have barely put any mileage into that unrepairable tire. I don't see this with clinchers. The stability of clinchers works for the vast majority of people and it's not messy for people that hardly prepared to do their own repairs. Clinchers are still plenty reliable and quick to fix. Most will never even notice the difference in speed or comfort. Unless the industry gets this tech stable then it's clearly for those that want to spend money assisting in the R&D. I have personally used road tubeless without issues but I no longer have that wheelset. My riding about 60% clincher and 40% tubular(climbing bike). I think I want to try TPU tubes soon but perhaps next season.
I had tonnes of problems with the "tubeless ready" cheap Bonntrager wheels that came with my 2018 Domane. They caused lots of punctures where the rim pressed against the inner tube (on the inside). I had to line the inside with Gorilla tape and even that did not work with narrower tubes/tyres.
Honestly, I’ve not had a issue with tubeless. I cycle 5 days a week on my commute to work. Maybe only issue would be if the sealant doesn’t seal puncture immediately and ends up spraying up on you and the bike 😂
Tubeless is fine till its not, they're many things that can make tubeless not function at its best. The biggest problem is if the tier dismounts off the wheel, there is no way that sucker is going back on with a mini pump. If your commute its cold, wet, dark and maybe a little salt added to the mix, when (not if it will happen) you come to remove that valve, trust me those things can be very very hard to remove with cold hands making it very likely you also won't be getting a tube in either. I was stuck on a night ride well into the minus numbers in the middle of nowhere for 50mins trying to get a tube in one night. I was running tubeless for 10 years up until that point, never again! tubes on the road all the time now and my latex tubes have servied slices that would be ride-ending on a tubeless system. A quick boot in a clean tier and I'm off ridding again in 5 mins. For the everyday rider tubeless makes no sense at all.
If thats the only problem you’ve had in 10 years then I would say its a success. And I would say that the undoing a valve would be the same if it was a inner tube to be removed. But either way I’m quite meticulous and maintain it regularly. Tubeless for me is more comfortable and enjoyed every moment compared to an inner at 110psi.
I've given up on my commuter bike after having a sidewall cut one day, and fairly deep slash the next which Silca failed on both. Sure, my inner tube would have punctured but at least changing a tube would have been a clean affair.
The other issue is the constant leaking air. In my case, on Hunt alloy rims, the rims have a butted joint that's not flat and even though the sealant does an OK job of sealing it, it's not perfect. That leads to 2 issues: losing 10-20psi over the course of 24hrs and more annoying, the sealant's life being drastically reduced. Checking the supposedly holy grail sealant that is Silca (and what a PITA to keep popping the bead to refill) it ends up as a drying ball of latex and carbon strands.
Because I use Hutchinson Sector 32 I have enough height to chuck in an inner tube and run c.60psi. For some extra protection I've squired in 30ml of MilKit which is a synthetic latex, so it shouldn't dry up so easily. We'll see how it goes long term.
For my road bike I will be buying Mavic's Cosmic SLR rims. Carbon construction, so no leaky butt joint, and no spoke holes too so no rim tape. I'm hoping with a proper tubeless tyre and bead wax (ala Ride of Japan) you can get an airtight seal without using sealant. A puncture will be dealt with a Dynaplug or a tube out on the road.
Just my 2c worth...
I agree leave tubeless for offroad.
I weigh over 115kg and get a puncture every 2 years on 28mm tyres not even riding gingerly.
carrying a spare tube and minipump is really no real hassle honestly and easily good enough
I tried tubeless on my recumbent with 26” back and 20” front. The only tire I found with that dimensions was Schwalbe pro one. It was really hard to get on the rim. And I got several holes that the sealant couldn’t fix and the tire was to weak hold the tubeless plugs for the pressure. It was a really bad experience.
But on my road bike tubeless has worked better with no puncture the sealant couldn’t fix yet. But I do dread a bit when that puncture comes and you have to put in a tube on the road because the tires are so hard to get off and on even at home.
Loving it! LBS deals with the initial hassle. Use syringe to refill with Fillmore valves for the ease. Incredible to have a puncture and just go on as if nothing happened. 😅
Don t worry, it will eventually give way as the rubber ages and spreads
I run tubeless on both MTB and road bikes. No problems with either. I will say there was a learning curve, as with anything that is new to you.
You got to remember that the TPU tubes are changing the game, making tubeless even less relevant for road use
They are lighter (36g) than either latex or tubeless setup, provides the same rolling resistance and comfort benefits, have no trouble with keeping the pressure. And their cost is going down at the moment.
But you have to run them high tire pressures, no?
@@markay_ Pure marketing you can run tubes at lower pressure, I run my latex tubes @65 psi no problems and will drop to the 50's for the winter/wet roads. The problems come off-road with snake bikes.
TPUs are less robust ones unfortunaltely. Got 2 fresh Aerothans done in under 3 weeks. Poor me. What a waste of money.
Totally agree. We're going to end up coming back full circle and using tube tires again. I personally see tubeless tires as an overall net negative when you consider costs, and the fact you're still going to get punctures no matter what you do. The only reason, at this point, that anyone should be on tubeless is because they've been sold a tubeless set-up from buying a complete bike. Otherwise, investing all the time and money into tubeless when you already have tube tires is pointless - even more pointless if you're an amateur cyclist that doesn't compete.
@@fredericpressel1611 Try the Pirelli tpu tubes, they have been great. Have them on a gravel bike and road bike with thousands of miles and not a single flat yet. Definitely have gotten my moneys worth out of them, I believe so far
I seem to get a lot of punctures, even with Tubeless. I've had 2 flats requiring a tube this year,... BUT I've probably had 20 punctures that I know about. That would have been +20 flats this year with tubes at 4000+ miles. I remember double flatting multiple times on my tubed setup. I don't miss it.
I think one of the major issues with road sealants is they don't quite work well with the higher pressures associated with road tires. They might work better once the formulas are tweaked a bit, but right now I'll just stick to my tubes.
Drop your pressure to 60 psi and use 28mm
Been riding tubeless road since the advent of hutchinson atom galactics and DT tricons...never had a problem, never looked back. Use stans race for all my tires whether it be MTB or Road (especially well suited with the higher pressures). Nuff said going riding!!
Since my girlfriend and I have started running tubeless set ups three years ago we've had very little flats. My girlfriend had one puncture that I was able to fix with a plug. Every puncture that I've had has sealed on its own except for the one time that my tire got slashed on the side wall.
I have been riding tubeless on all of my bikes for two years (road, gravel, and mtb). I have never had a flat in the past two years. I will never go back to tubes.
Tubeless setups are a must on mountain and gravel bikes and there is not much of an argument there and the main reason is these larger tires use much lower pressures which allows the sealant to do its job much better than high pressure road tire setups. After running tubeless on the road for the last 2 seasons I have found I get good results with tire pressure between 70 - 75 PSI. Although I have had punctures they all sealed and I was able to keep on riding with just a bit less pressure.
There are many annoying aspects of tubeless for road tires. But I gladly tolerate all of them because the roads where I live are horrible with debris. The month before I went tubeless, I had 5 flats. When I was waiting for a replacement tubeless tire to be delivered last month, I put a tube and clincher on and got a flat in the first 5 miles. And that happened while I was being much more careful than I am when I ride tubeless. First ride after putting the new tubeless on, another puncture, but it sealed right up without me even slowing down. Checked the pressure when I got home and I lost about 8 psi. I think it definitely helps that I have large volume rims with a 28mm internal width. So I run low pressures which I think helps when the sealant is attempting to seal the puncture.
Totally disagree that plugging a tubeless tire is harder than replacing an inner tube; I had a stretch that, mostly because of road glitter on my daily commute, where I was having a ton of flats; half-a-dozen in a two week span; I ended up going to a tubeless setup, which while it didn't end the puncture problem, eased it considerably, and the few times I needed a plug was really simple. I've not used them, but I've been told the bacon strip style of tubeless plug is finicky and doesn't always work well, but dynaplugs are fantastic.
Just upgraded to a new Defy. Bike came tubeless, which I was super excited about since I didn't have to spend the money or take the time to set it up.........THEN!!!! I got my first puncture....a gash that sealed initially and then blew out again!!! Ended up putting in a tube to get me back on the road. This is the exact reason I have avoided going tubeless, and will now be the reason I go back to tubes. If I rode nothing bu country side and mountains I would stay tubeless, but that's just not the case. Most areas I ride a littered with stuff ready to punch holes in tires.
Sweet logic. If you had tubes you would have also had a puncture that would require a new tube.
@@adrianc6534 Thanks for your smart @## reply. A puncture with a tube would not have sprayed sealant all over my legs and my bike. I would also not have had to deal with the rest of the sealant in the tire while fitting a tube. I had sticky crap all over my bike, my legs, AND my hands/gloves...... It also would have taken me less time to fit the new tube had I not had to deal with all the sealant. To each their own.......for me the tubeless does not tip the scale far enough to make it worth the trouble. Again, where I live you are dealing with multiple punctures a season. 2 years a go I had 2 separate punctures less than a mile apart!
I use Mavic's Tubeless in road and am very happy about them, nobody is or will be free from punctures and Tubeless in road really does reduce them, you're right there are still a ton of trouble (I have gone through two wheel rims indeed), but I learnt to take care of them, always get them to the right pressure before any ride, that way you will avoid so may troubles as well as keeping the pressure within proper limits
I am quite happy with my tubeless setup on my gravel bike - I am using Mavic UST rims and Schwalbe TLE tires with 40-622 dimension. I can go way lower in tire pressure which makes riding on gravel much more comfy and smoother. the only thing that I struggled with was getting the tire mounted on the rim, it was a pain in the ass and took almost an HOUR and killed several mounting levers (no joke!) - once it was attached I find the rest pretty easy - pump it up to make it go pop and then just milk it up - immediately go for a 1 hour ride and they are pretty much unbreakable from now.
Carry tubes. Ive had things go 100% pie shaped on a gravel bike with tubeless in middle of no where. Its real dramatic when it happens to you. It seems like it cant happen, but it can. A half inch cut and tubeless is all done.
@@bradsanders6954 I always carry tubes no worries - I just gone tubeless because I like the lower pressure and the comfort.
My road, gravel, and mtb are all tubeless. Never had any issues and have only used one plug in about three years and that was in a friend’s tire. And that plug fixed it right away. I’ve seen a few punctures that just seal up and we continue riding. Only times we sit and wait for flats nowadays are for the people still using tubes.
Good video.
Personally, Campy Bora WTO wheelset tubeless ready( no spoke holes ),,,, Pirelli PZero Race tlr tires,,,, sealant injector that goes through the stem and to the bottom of tire for installing and checking sealant.
Install by hand with a floor pump, inject sealant , quick as mounting a tube type tire.
Ride wonderful, no flats on 2 sets at 2500 miles per rear , much more for front of course.
Pirelli have adjusted the tires to be accurate width, my 700x28’s measure 28.3 mm on a 19 mm inner width rim even after 2000 miles.
One of the benefits never mentioned is that the tire is much more likely to stay on the rim and the air will escape slower after a large puncture.
I had a major crash 10 years ago when I hit a large pothole while descending at high speed, the tire blew and came off the rim. Lots of damage to me and the bike. I have been on tubeless or tubulars ever since.
Sorry for the long comment, I am quite sold on the safety of tubeless :)
I went thru 6 months of roadbike tubeless hell (all DIY, including the sealant) and I'm here to say: it was completely worth it. Did it for the mountain bike years ago, but failed miserably on the roadbike back then. It's been a year and I'm not even sure I know how to properly change a tube any more lol. In Central Cal, I was getting so many goathead and glass flats that my tubes often had 6-8 patches before being retired due to a catastrophic puncture. No more. I still carry a tube just in case, though. Tip: Be absolutely meticulous with the rim tape if you''re converting from non-tubeless (Mavic USTs like the Ksyriums are practically tubeless-ready). And just buy tubeless tires for the setup. They're just safer and easier. If you're not ready to take the plunge or just have a lot of conventional tires, just buy tubes with removable valve cores and inject sealant in into the tubes after installation. They're 7 bux a pop on amazon. Adds bit of weight, but you won't feel it and it's so much cleaner, too, since the sealant is contained in the tube. Yeah, you'll sometimes get a flat. Just roll the tire around and pump and it should seal.
Store your bike indoors to have the sealant last longer! I’ve had little issues with tubeless and would never go back to tubes! There is a learning curve in the beginning but it isn’t that difficult
I have been on mtb since 2017 and runs tubeless only. Started road a couple years ago and been running tubeless on my road bike too. The Hutchinson performance TL tires are nice. I have no issues with them. Turned most of my friends to tubeless and have not had any issues yet. Yes it is messy if you have never set up tubeless but it’s not that difficult once you do it a couple of times. My local bike paths have a lot of shrubs with thorns and the tubeless tires works well for me.
The tubes could have had the messy sealant added if you liked if you were that worried about a puncture
I tried CushCore foam inserts. They made it nearly impossible to get the tire off the rim. So, they went straight in the bin.
Tubeless, no doubt about it. Yes, it has a cost if you want to upgrade, but if you’re getting a new bike, it’s not really a problem. As for the mess, do a bit of research and find out how to easily pour sealant in (some shown here in the video). A good sealant seals pretty much any hole that will keep your tire good for using it. Even with clinchers, I wouldn’t ride downhill at 70kph with a tire that had a big cut. I sympathize with the fact that not all tire/rim setups might not work properly. That is not the norm though. Long live the tubeless setup ;)
Like with disc brakes, it doesn't really matter what I think about road tubeless, it will eventually take over as the manufacturers seems to have decided that it's the future also for road bikes. With the wide tire trend (28 or wider) the sealants get an easier job too as it's easier to seal at lower pressures. I run tubeless on gravel since 2016. I did do tubeless for a while on road, but went back to tubes (latex and now also tpu) and will probably stay with that for at least a few more years. I get it those who ride in places where thorns are laying around in the street, but in my riding conditions punctures on road even with tubes is a non-issue, it's just so rare. And if punctures is not an issue, then tubeless doesn't add much value. If (when?) tubeless becomes good enough to be possible to run without sealant and hold pressure almost as good as a butyl tube (even when the tire is a bit older), then I think it would make sense to switch also for me. But now messing around with sealant when I don't get punctures with tubes anyway is just not worth it.
Got a new Giant TCR, so forced to go tubeless for the wheels. Key is finding the right mix, and be patient. Had a couple of big punctures, which would have ruined a tubed tyre.
I have tried the inserts. They keep the wheel on the rim but frankly an inner tube is easier and better. The vittoria tyres I mated them with were very porous and didn't seal with my rims. Frankly Tubeless is great when it works but for road bikes is too hit and miss at the moment.
Just built my gravel bike and first time tubeless user but still carry spare tube just in case. Never had issue with tubes either. Only thing I noticed about tubeless is on a quiet smooth asphalt road I can hear the sloshing of sealant which I thought puncture on multiple occasions, little annoying 😅
I had the same problem, ended up the sloshing was water that got between the carbon inner and outer part of the rim. I guess water can seep through the spoke ‘holes’. I had to remove the tire and drain the water through the valve stem hole.
Just started using tubeless on the road. Enve wheels with enve tires. Mounting the tires was a breeze. Then came the Silca sealant. What a mess! It can’t be injected. Had to get the pressure washer out to clean my drive off after the sealant dried on it. After finally getting them to seal and all cleaned up I love the ride feel. However, something tells me I’ll be back to latex tubes after these tires wear out.
Yeah, I've not had the greatest experience with Silca either. Cracking open the bead on a wide MTB tyre might be OK, but there's just not enough room on a thin road tyre IMO. It went everywhere trying to fill then re-seat.
I had been using Panaracer Gravel Kings for commuting but the back tyre just didn't want to seal properly and Iost a decent amount of pressure overnight. Once I had cracked open the tyre again, a lot of the carbon fibres were stuck between the tyre and rim, the rest had balled up into a latex lump. It's just too time consuming having to clean out the rim every time in order to try and get it sealed again.
Unless you can get a 100% seal consider you will have to top up the sealant more regularly than advertised. And popping off the bead isn't for me.
We need to be looking at ways to have a tyre seal without sealant and using plugs (and maybe sealant) as an emergency approach and then back home to perform a proper patched repair. IMO.
One could add that when tubeless is demonstrated, it's nearly always done with a perfectly clean rim, fresh rim tape (if the rim requires rim tape) with a new tire fresh out of the box. This minimizes the risk for problems. However, if you are a user that swap tires during the season etc so you refit older tires, then the risk of issues during install rises drastically.
Only had one flat since going tubeless. That was a 10mm+ gash that would have destroyed any tyre, with or without a tube. Tubeless setup is a bit of a hassle but the extra comfort due to lower pressures and lack of punctures is totally worth it.
I have been tubeless 18months and have only had to top up air twice while on ride, I have changed tyres no problem, and check sealant every few months, so simple with Giant syringe into valve and remove all sealant to check how much you have.
When fitting I use my compressor to inflate fast to pop onto rim, them remove air quickly while wheel hanging up and fill sealant with syringe and re inflate. I have had issues with air lose over night and check tyres before every ride, and had to fit new valves every so often with sealant clogging them up, but on the Revolt, the benefits have far out weighted the disadvantages if you could call them that, that’s just my personal experience to date.
For me, the reason to not use tubeless on my road bikes was the requirement to the sealant to fill holes at high pressure. Stans Race Sealant wasn't able too, Silcas product is. Now the only contra point is the extra effort and the mess, and that is worth it to me so far. Good Latex tubes get you pretty much the same result of damping and low resistance, but they loose air quick.
I had thought a lot about going tubeless for more than a few years. After 3 years of have 0 flats on my road and gravel bike, and being able to squeeze the tire and go, to estimate the tire pressure and ride of with out pumping the tires every time I want to go for a bike ride. Is the reason why I will not go tubeless.
I foresee a "6 reasons you should switch to tubeless" by D. Arthur incoming next
Good idea! 🤣
Positives: "Punctures" I bicycled across the U.S. three times and got TWO flats. I found a wire both times, removed it, replaced tube, pumped it up, back on my way. 10 minutes total each time, including panniers off and on.
David -
I hope you get a chance to test and review the Vittoria Air-Liner Road system. There could be some simple and informative tests examining the effectiveness of that system. I have watched a few reviews but would appreciate yours in particular.
Great video, projecting honestly and thoroughly the + and - of tubeless. I don't believe that you mentioned how latex tubes made clincher tires so close to tubeless in terms of rolling resistance and comfort something tha hit me upside the head when switched to Tubolitos. Many thanks for the info that latex tubes lose air so quick. Honestly I thought I was doing something wrong!
I must confess I am a disbeliever (owner of a Dura-Ace WH-7850-C24-TL Road Tubeless wheelset + the 1st Specialized tubeless tires for 6 months only-after that the tires degraded to pieces) AND my fresh wheelset is clincher-only as Specialized JUST NOW made up her mind that tubeless is not evil........🤨
Finally a question that tortures me for so long: is tubeless really lighter than clincher way? (I think not, although you gain in lack of tube, tires are way heavier + the sealant???).
Tubeless tire is heavier, the sealant has weight, it depends on how much you want to spend..........Ive seen blind tests where an expert thought he could tell the difference between tubeless and tubed, and he was wrong....he couldnt guess right............so the performance advantage for an everyday guy? Its all in the head.............(sealant works fine in tubes)
Tubeless on my road bike, gravel and mountain bike. I did encounter problems to fit some tires, but found now the brands that fits (Schwalbe and Panaracer works well for me) no way back to tubes
I went tubeless on mu Giant road bike for a number of years. With mix feelings. Had to up date to a new road bike BMC and staying with tubes. Don’t miss the mess of the sealant going everywhere.
My new Canyon CFR came with tubeless ready DT Swiss wheels and GP 5000 S TR tires fitted with TPU tubes. After nearly a year of ownership and 5,500 miles I had no punctures on the front tire and 2 flats and one slow leak on rear. It was a pain to remove the tire and re install it after tube change. I also damaged countless TPU tubes trying to set the tire with leavers. The time came to replace the tires and decided to go tubeless again on GP5000 S TR 28mm tires. Only time will tell if it was worth it or not. So far two rides on tubeless and the first thing noticed is the comfort level.
Hi David, as always, great video. Honestly though, I don't full understand your thought on tubeless.
I have a gravel bike that I use as an all road bike and I'm deciding to buy a new pair of carbon wheels. I'm indecise between 2 sets, Parkour's Ronde that are clincher and Zipp 303 Firecrest that are hookless. With the first one I can go tubeless or keep using tubes, with the Zipp I'm almost forced to go tubeless, and I m not able to understand if there're really benefits in going tubeless for an all-round all-road use, or if it's better to stick with classic tubes.
Wondering when this generation will rediscover tubulars. Way better ride than those harsh riding clinchers, way less mess and hassle than tubeless (glue does not tend to explode), way safer when your front goes down suddenly, and way more fun to repair too!
No 😂 never go tubular . Piece of dated tech . It’s a messy to repair . I’m not getting those glue off
I use pirelli cinturato’s 28mm without any issues. Less than 28mm yes would be less than ideal, being the perfect size 30/32mm
Only sealant I've used is Slime in the tubes of my commute bike, bombproof paired with Marathon Greenguard's. Looks like the road tubeless tech is improving but I still prefer 25c tyres with tubes and 90-100 PSI on my road bike.
Yes me too but there is nothing stopping you lowering pressures on tubed.If you look at the Silca pressure app which started all this off you can see their setting for tubed and tubeless .for mine , 25 mm Tubed, weight 70 kgs on rougher roads they are 70 lb rear 68 front..very similar to tubeless. Defintely more comfy , not bothered if faster as I ve never timed myself . I was running 100 lb which was very vibrating which Silca discovered was that it slowed people down
I maybe odd but I like high pressure in my tubes I still run 110psi I like the road buzz feels nice. I did try running lower pressures with 28mm tyres when that was the rage but I didn't like the feel as much.
I love using tubeless for my MTB, but not for road. I did 12,000 miles in 2021 and 11,400 miles in 2020 with tubeless and they were no picnic. I have now gone back to clinchers and tubes. I had two flats that required me using my spare tubes anyway. Tubeless aren't too hard to set up, but does get messy in some situations and it takes more time to deal with in an event of a flat or if you're replacing tires. Clinchers are still easier to live with.
Really? Hard to believe... Either way, tubeless all the way! Almost no punctures or pressure losses but I do maintain all my sets of wheels in time and with proven products(Muc-Off mainly).
@@wsbygt i maintain mine as well. That doesn't mean you can"t get punctures. You just haven't. I had a set of Mavic Ksyriums which I sold as few months ago. They were clinchers that had around 27k miles on them with the original inner tubes since 2015. I just replaced the tires when needed. They never had a flat. I did replace the tubes when Isold them though. Seemed like a wise decision with 7 year old tubes
@@terbennett Like I said: I had "almost no punctures". The most dramatic ones just needed a few pumps to regain optimal pressure and sealant service at home. I never had tubes that made a full year on the wheel without patches. And let me say that I´m trying a set of Pirelli Cinturato´s tires and I dont even watch were they roll over anymore, ZERO pressure losses over hard terrains.
My tubeless experience on gravel bike is mixed. Besides the learning curve, mess, and maintenance, I've experienced issues with rim tape failing, both times on DT Swiss wheels. Apparently they install crap rim tape from the factory, on their tubeless-ready wheels.
Ive done 10,000 miles on latex tubes and not a single flat, ive cut tyres but not flatted those cuts long enough to be ride ending on tubeless. I have just gone over to tubeless to see if anything has changed and I must say the install was a breeze, reserve 40|44 and GP 5000s tr with so fingers are all pointing in the right direction, I finally took the plunge becasue the TR where actually cheaper than the clincher versions. The GP 5000s tr are clearly better made than the clinchers in the hands thats for certain. I ran them with latex tubes for a few days to get a feel for them and id happily run them that way. Fitting tubes was easy and no more difficult so dont really understand why reviews say fitting tubes in these is hard, but hey ho.
One thing I will say, people that say tubeless is faster than latex tubes, it just isn't. Especially if you slop in 60ml of sealant and you can feel in the handling riding back to back. and you can see if you spin the tyre in the bike stand the wheel comes to a stop quicker. but you need at east 50ml to get a good seal. You cant run an everyday TR system on 20ml of selant that BRR test on.
I still havnt made my mind up if ill leave it this way or not but as I say the tyres and rims seem well matched and have stayed at 60spi now for 24 hr's. Orange seal by the way
I have gp5000s tr and road bike assistance so they come and bring me home if needed. Costs only 45€/year. The biggest benefit for me is comfort and handling.
You have the same setup as me, including road assistance 😀
I can’t see the problem with tubeless, I’m running Schwalbe pro one TLE with Mavic Ksyrium tubeless wheels and never had a problem. If you don’t want the fitting hassle do as I did, take it to you local bike shop who will do it for you for a few quid, well worth it for the lack of stress alone.
A foam insert sounds like its a good way to have a garbage ride. I guess we have to try it.
The standards is an issue, and it can be hard to match tires and rims. So far it’s been easy for me - haven’t had a flat in thousands of miles on my road bikes, and my new gravel bike I’m building is going to be tubeless, too.
I converted to tubeless about 2years ago in hopes that as a heavier rider I could run lower pressures and avoid all the pinch flats I would get using tubes; did exactly what I was hoping for. I will not go back to tubes if I can help it.
I’ve had a positive experience using tubeless on my road bike (love it). I know everyone has different experiences.
I've progressed to tubulars.
Haven't found any negatives. I switched away to tubeless and I'm never going back. It's fair to say there is a balance. It's a little more work obviously when you need to change tires, but three years going I have never had a flat. My road conditions are friendly enough, but I used to get at least 2-3 flats a year with clinchers. I am absolutely prepared to put a little more work in at home whenever it is time to change tires to avoid flats on the road. It is amazing. Add to that the better ride feel, ability to ride on lower pressures, better cornering, and it starts to feel like I am riding tubulars again (used to race on tubulars). I struggle to find the downside. I really can't find one. Yes, I invested in an air compressor (makes changing tires so easy), and yes, I spend a little longer changing tires at home, but it is amazing overall.
Riding at 65psi is such a big difference to comfort and speed it largely makes the other considerations low priority. Gp5000, plugs, silca sealant. Done.
you can ride at 65psi with a tube you know that right? If you ride 65psi on a tubeless setup you can still smack the rim and if hard enough you can still get a snake bite. It's not a problem that has just magically disappeared.
@@gaza4543 riding 65 psi on a tube is a time bomb for pinchflats. That's the main reason I switched to tubeless.
I tried tubless and didn’t like it. Couldn’t maintain enough tire pressure on long rides. Had to stop and inflate with a CO2. Got a puncture that didn’t seem that significant, but the sealant didn’t work. The tire slow leaked and I got sealant all over the bike frame before I could safely pull over. The remaining sealant made for one hell of a mess when trying to insert an inner tube. The valve was very difficult to remove with just my fingers. The dried sealant around the hole was the culprit.
Not worth it to me. I went back to using tubes.
Interesting to ponder whether tubeless benefits could conceivably be the reason road tires would widen to 32 among pros if the aero/weight penalty and fit variations are minimized. Seems to be happening here and there in the spring classics anyway. For the rest of us, 35?
odd how track racing which is timed to the 1000 th of a second race on 19 mm tubs and extremely high pressures over 150 lb s .They know whats the fastest on a smooth track.
Here is a question. I have tubeless, tubed, tubular. Like them all. But I saw recently that most sealants don’t seal well in the rain. I have noticed that they sealant is very easy to clean up with just water. Is it true that sealant is ineffective or largely ineffective if the road are really wet or if you get water into the system somehow? I’ve never had a flat with my tubeless tires but I do notice that I get more flats with tubed tires in the rain
40 mm Schwalbe G-One R´s on DT SWISS GRC Spline 1400 rims - fits perfectly well. Especially in a tubeless setup.
That's not road tubeless mate, that's gravel. A completely different kettle of fish so with the lower pressures you are presumably running, tubeless does make sense in this instance in my experience.
@@ashleyhouse9690 well seen
Compatibility, I gave away a brand new set of WTB tubeless tires that would not go on my wheels after every trick from the internet. Soapy water, tube first, heating, stretching out, laying flat in sun, nothing worked. So I walked into a bike shop and handed them to a mechanic and walked out.
I often change tyrez, also having multiple bikes which means that it may be weeks between using any specific bike.
I think a lot of the negatives you list are overblown. I do not find it difficult or messy to install tubeless tires and though I haven't done the math I believe tubeless is actually cheaper for me to use than tubes, especially if my time is included. Nearly 50,000 kilometers on my tubeless road wheels now and not one single flat! No way would I ever go back to tubes. Thanks for the vid!
Can I use the regular floor pump to pump it up or need a booster air pump to get it pump up?
Depends on the tyre/rim combo. I've had tyres that seat with a hand pump and others which didn't seat with a compressor. That's part of the problem with tubeless that David referred to, there's just no standards so it's a case of (expensive) trial and error.
I bought a Giant Defy that came set up tubeless 32mm Giant tyres. I expected great comfort from running low pressures but very disappointed. The ride felt very wooden so i changed to Pirelli Cinturato 28mm. They are better but no noticeable difference to the tubed tyres i run on other bikes. With tubes i can be confident i can fix any puncture on the road, with a tyre boot if needed. With tubeless I’m not confident. If the sealant doesn’t seal it seems a major headache. You need to carry tyre plugs, tyre boots, a tool to remove the tubeless valve, spare tubes and something to clean up the mess. Is it worth it?
do you have to use sealant? is it only for if you get a small puncture? I have motorcycles and cars that have never had sealant to run them, could you not run the tubeless bicycle set up with out sealant?
Yes, most tires will leak air without sealant. Even brand new tires. The bead will also not seal completely without sealant.