Thor's Love, Thor's Thunder
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2022
- A look at Thor's wife Sif, and at Thor's association with thunder.
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawford.com/ (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
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Jackson Crawford’s translation of Hávamál, with complete Old Norse text: www.hackettpublishing.com/the... or www.amazon.com/Wanderers-Hava...
Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Poetic Edda: www.hackettpublishing.com/the... or www.amazon.com/Poetic-Edda-St...
Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/The-Poetic...
Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Saga of the Volsungs: www.hackettpublishing.com/the... or www.amazon.com/Saga-Volsungs-...
Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/The-Saga-o...
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Yesterday was “ Thors Day “
Dr. Crawford, I know you do not typically care to engage "Norse pop culture" but I suspect continued efforts like this will increase your reach not only among "casual" enthusiasts who enjoy Marvel comics or certain video games, but among the more serious language and history buffs who are interested in these topics as well. Well done!
That's honestly fine by me, ( I enjoy some MCU movies btw ) I'd much rather watched Mr Crawford than watch any MCU Thor movie to be honest.
[ EDIT] - I know these are just my unnecessary thoughts, I was just responding to your comment.🙂✌🏾✌🏾
I’m always happy when my native language of Faroese gets a mention. Thanks for that. And yes, we spell silvur, hava, svøvnur (svefn) etc. with a v. And as you might have gathered, the Faroese name for Sif is Siv (read as seev).
Me too, I often feel somewhat neglected as a Faroese. But I have a quick question: Am I mistaken in my memory that a thunderstorm is the arrival of Thor, in our stories?
@@tordurhansen333 Its not a direct association, it's more like "And then, with a *thunderous* charge Thor arrived", to sort of put emphasis on his might.
@@hjalmarrsviakappa9666 Thats not what i remember though. Well it is, but not only that
I like how it’s uploaded on Thursday! or Thor’s Day.
can't decide what was more epic: the things you were talking about or your battle with them insects.
love your channel, thank you for teaching us. you are doing an incredible work.
This insect was Loki himself in disguise. He tried to corrupt a god job of Mr. Crawford like in the times when the dwarves has been forging the Mjolnir.
I remember in some past videos of yours you mentioned referring to the Norse Gods as Gods of anything in particular (God of Thunder, God of Fire etc) may not fully be accurate or do them justice. Their names seem more in reference to their personality or what they're associated with but they're so nuanced and multi faceted you can't really limit them to being Gods of a articular set of things. Thor's name seems more in reference to his energetic & bombastic nature rather then being an actual Thunder/Lightning God. Just like how he isn't a God of hammers haha. Anyway another great video Dr. Crawford!
If marvels Thor had accurate old world behavior and beliefs they would be horror movies.
You should review Mimir's tales in God of War! I'd like to know which are accurate and which take artistic liberties.
I've always loved the Marvel comics version of Thor, but it's always struck me as odd how little he resembles the mythological version from the surviving myths. It is a shame how much has been lost to time :(
Well he's more similar to the Netflix Ragnarok Thor than the myths.
Unfortunately Thor is a victim of character assassination from the MCU. The MCU's version of Thor hardly represents Norse Mythology. It's sad.
As Dr. Crawford pointed out, it's the characters that stand out more than the lore. The fact that the name "Thor" continues to stand out in modern pop culture suggests that he's very much alive in our modern myths.
ffs people, nobody thinks Marvel is trying to be accurate. They started with some comics that were only loosely inspired by the myths to begin with, then decades of writers iterated on that, and then a whole other set of people adapted those comics into films, again pretty loosely. At this point there is no reasonable expectation that the characters of the MCU would share anything beyond their names with any myth.
@@larry2281 actually, Thor in Thor Ragnarok is probably the closest to myth Thor we've seen on the big screen.
The assumption of a connection between Thor and thunder is strengthened by the fact that the Scandinavian word for thunder, Danish 'torden', Norwegian 'torden/toredøn(n)', archaic Swedish 'tordön', etymologically means "Thor-rumble".
Yes. To elaborate
Tordön (the Rumble)
= Tor dunder (modern Swedish)
= Tor thunder
I tried to find out how old these words are without much success. However, these words for thunder are rather strong evidence of a connection between Thor and thunder.
I just love ❤️ this so much because I love to hear Thor pronounced so many times...uh, yeah, I've been accused of being a sound junkie. I just love the sound of the name! Thank you.
Audio books!!!!
I'm glad to see the TH-cam captioninh algorithm has finally realised he's not an "old nurse specialist" but an "old norse" one :)
So Thor is actually just the “god of manliness”?
neat
I'm using Dr. Crawford's work to help in my journey of Norse Paganism
What a chad
@@callisastapp7160 is that sarcasm or a pun?
I just realized that Thor was one of Santa's reindeer!
you mean Donner?
Looks like gnat season has hit your part of the country, too. We're getting chomped down here, and the horses are really suffering. How can something so small be such a big pest?
I wonder what they eat if you aren't around? We got some clothing from Insect Shield online. It all works great.
Maybe Thor can zap a gnat or two?
Wow... that's it for Thor's thunder? Following this logic, Frau Blucher is a goddess of thunder AND horses.
10:30 Loki in Florida, the new Disney plus show^^
Makes sense, we gotta get Mobius on that jetski somehow.
48 Sif á hó ...
This concept is pretty clear.
Thunder sounds like as if a hammer is pounding on the sky. Is that why Thor has a hammer? And Indra has a Vajra?
It certainly is! The Shinto god of thunder also has two hammers which he uses to strike a drum.
Perun, from slavic myths, is also often depicted with a hammer, or an axe (or a bow, for that 'striking from afar' aspect of thunder)
I've often wondered if there were any connections between Thor and thunder, other than his name of course. Thanks Dr Crawford.
So thankful for your content
Always appreciate the great lessons with the beautiful views.
The great courses lectures are available for free on audible until the end of the month.
I really like this approach to video topics!
I be in the high desert if Wyoming in a few days myself, perhaps contemplating Sif and Thor's fidelity.
Great stuff!
So is the old word for thunder in icelandic "þórdunur" (torden in danish/norw) a tautological word as the word dunur is the same word etymologically as þór ;)
Would love to see a video on bracteates. Whats the significance, what do the runes means, and why are theyre so many different styles?
"Vita man eg gátuna,
Eg sigi tađ fyrstu av teim:
Toran eitur sá reyđa trumma,
Iđ slær yvir allan heim."
Doesn't one of the other names for Thor, "Hlóriði" also mean something like "the thunderer?" Regardless, I agree that it's a mistake to assign domains to ancient gods, even ones more traditionally thought of like the Greek gods. Gods were worshipped, perhaps they had concentrations (say a prayer to Poseidon while crossing the sea, perhaps?) but in general they were no more "the god of X" than, say, saints. Sure, saints are patrons of certain people, but you generally pray to any of them for favorable intervention.
Also, Skaldaspillir ("The despoiler of Skalds" i.e. "the plagiarist") is probably my favorite nickname for a Skald.
That quiescence of the 'n' sound, is that a common morphing? Not uncommon in the growth of Semitic languages and now I'm wondering how widespread it might be.
Are the Eddas in the language that was current when Snorri penned them?
Could it be that the name Mjölnir, comes from the word/verb: mylja.
In english: mylja= to reduce in small fragments.
Ég mun mala þig mélinu smærra.
Dutch: malen
"Akafliga" could be directly translated "Åka-Flyga" (Going-flying) which is only achieved with great speed... in modern Swedish that would be "flög fram" which means the same thing. "Thruma" may be "tremor" I think, maybe even has something to do with modern day Swedish "Trumma" which means "to drum"... Since the Vikings gave the Russians their name (Ruser) prooving that the vikings where quite dominant in their exchange of cultures could it be that the Russian borrowed the word from vikings and used it as thunder instead of cloud and not the other way around? Their name for lightning "molnija" is very close to modern Swedish "moln/molniga" which means cloud/cloudy (never saw thunder without clouds).
fascinating!
No. This "åka-flyga" theory is wrong. You´re just choosing to cut a word up at some random place within the word and making up a meaning by yourself, finding something in swedish that fits.
Ákaflega/ákafliga in icelandic/old norse is an adverb that means intensely and it´s cut up ÁKAF-LIGA, and not "áka-fliga"
It comes from he icelandic/old norse adjective ákaf(ur) that in modern icelandic means intense/eager.
@@MrKorton nice with feedback, thank you so much! Please what is the etymology of the root word in Icelandic? Being a polyglot I often go by ”gut feeling” and that will often lead to wild speculations… more than once I have been wrong but more than once there was some grain of truth in the speculation. Note that im no expert in Norse nor Icelandic.
@Christoffer Jönsson Yeah actually this gut feeling can be spot on sometimes ;) but not always.
Well the word ákafi is made up by á ("on) and "kafi" which sort of means "that which is submersed" (actually in faroese snow is "kavi" but in icelandic "snjór"). The verb "kafa" means to dive.
In the icelandic etymology book it says it finds words in norwegian and swedish dialects:
Norwegian: "åkavt" and swedish "akaven " (+ ancient swedish "akafvin")
@@MrKorton wow awesome to learn so much! Thank you for taking the time to answer.
Who else here plays Sif? I personally prefer 4, but I'll still hop on Sif 5 and Sif 6 from time to time for conquest campaigns.
Great, I did not know that Thor and thunder were the same root. But I have som thoughts about the hammer (" mjölner " in Swedish). One source says it means "the crusher", and it makes sence since " mjöl" means flour. According to myth lightning was created when Thor throws the hammer into clouds. So there a connection to our word "moln" ( = cloud) ?
04:37 what is the name of the song,please people
On the changes that led to the formation of the English word "thunder," it struck me that I've heard the rolled "r" pronounced closer to American "d" by Mexican Americans who grew up bilingual or unilingual English speakers. The name "Henry" was common in the family, but they pronounced it "Hhen'-dree." There were quite a few words where the rolled"r" was pronounced as "dr-" or just "d." I wonder if the word "thunder" developed in a similar way?
In case it's relevant.....
The family was always native to Texas, but retained their traditional language and culture until the late 1970s. The '70s and later babies didn't learn Spanish, but spoke English with their relatives' accent. The 1930s-born huellita barely spoke English, and had a strongly rolled "r." Her 1950s kids had begun softening the roll, but learned English as a second language and had a distinct accent.
That makes sense phonetically.
There may be two reasons for that:
First, both of Spanish’s Rs (the tap "r" sound [ɾ], and the rolled "rr" sound [r]) are what’s called “alveolar”, because they are produced in the alveolar ridge, a section of your mouth right behind your teeth.
The Spanish "d" sound is [d̪], which is a dental sound, so made with the teeth.
HOWEVER, and this is where it gets interesting, the English "d" sound is [d], which is an alveolar sound! Just like the Spanish Rs.
For native Spanish speakers, or speakers who grew up only pronouncing [ɾ], [r] and [d̪], it may be very difficult to hear the difference between those Rs and the English [d].
Heck, I’m one of them, my mother tongue is Spanish and I speak English like a native, and I still struggle with the [d] sound sometimes!
And that is because, again phonetically, the [d] sound and the [ɾ] sound are REALLY close phonetically. That is also why for example in American English, "ladder" is not pronounced [lædɚ], but [læɾɚ]! (yeah, don’t ask about the vowels, they are a whole other can of worms)
The other factor, which is more prominent in examples such as Henry or Thunder, is that, after nasal sounds (so like [n] or [m]), stops are much more preferred than fricatives, taps and trills.
Now what does that mean, you ask.
A stop is a sound produced by holding air in a certain part of your mouth (hence stopping the airflow) and then suddenly releasing it. Examples of stops are [d], [d̪], [k], [b], [t] and so on.
A fricative is a sound produced when the airflow is not stopped, but rather restricted, so it occurs with turbulence. Examples of fricatives are [s], [f], [θ] (the "th" sound), [ʃ] (the "sh" sound), etc.
And you already know what tap and trills are, an example of a tap sound is the [ɾ] sound (like in Spanish “pero” or American English “ladder”); and trills such as Spanish [r] (like in “perro”).
Now another thing you’ve got to understand, is that humans will always look for what’s easier and faster. That is why groups of sounds that are different will try to get similar to eachother as time goes on. As an example, [k] is a velar sound, produced in the velum of your mouth, and so when you say a word like “bank”, the "n" in bank is not an alveolar [n] (which it normally is): since it is followed by a velar stop, the "n" becomes velar too, hence “bank” is actually pronounced [bæŋk] ([ŋ] being the velar nasal)
Well same thing with “Henry” for those Latino speakers: since they pronounce their Rs the Spanish way, “Henry” should be /hɛnɾi/, but remember that a nasal sound next to a tap is not the most preferable, hence they will tend to pronouce it with a stop instead.
And what is the stop sound most closely related to the alveolar tap [ɾ]? Exactly, the alveolar stop [d] !
(Sometimes, you’ll also see the cluster [dr] as well, it depends on the speaker :)
I then imagine something very similar must’ve happened in the case of Thunder, especially given that the "d" is an alveolar [d], and the "r" used to be an alveolar [ɾ]! (before it softened into the modern English /ɹ/).
Though I can’t 100% confirm this, just giving you my best theory of how it may’ve happened. Phonetics is fun!
Great vid, very timely ❤️ But you look a bit out of place on the plains. Back to the beautiful mountains!
Where are you from?
Could Loki be Ullr’s father?
Sadly, Lady Sif isnKt in the MCU much either.
I guess you ment Vetlanda and not Velanda.
Jackson, you have more clout than you think. Maybe you could get funding for a retelling of the Edda, and get a more balanced version of Norse mythology out there.
The real material is, if anything more exciting than the cliched hacks that we are used to. Marvel thor is a wafer thin 2D character compared to Alviss's riddler, Odins argument opponent and Thiassis cross-dressing Assailant. More psychologically rich, and sometimes even more shocking. Plenty there to grab the eye.
Maybe even multilingual versions of.
With the appropriate noggin, I'd love to do this myself, and would be rabidly eager to help.
I went to the drive in to see the latest installment of Marvel's Thor, but I am just not that excited about it. I really prefer the Netflix series Ragnarok, from Norway. It's a little bit Percy Jackson, but just so much more satisfying to see the character of Thor develop from an awkward teen with a learning disability into a young man finding his strength.
LoL next time bug spray or a termacell.
When people still believed in these gods ? ( I look disappointing at my feet )
Do a Patreon with Taika Waititi! Pleeeeeease!!!!
🙃
Åskan dundrar : )
Your quotatings of Old Norse feel hard to me, as I'm instinctively trying to understand them on the basis of my knowledge of Swedish. So close, but so far apart!
Sorry to say, but not really _that_ close...
Anyway, I'm still trying, even when I know it's 95% impossible.
@@Valerio_the_wandering_sprite I know, I know. But that doesn't stop my brain from trying.
Rather flat scenery in this video. Jackson has headed east to the Plains it seems.
Taika Watiti destroyed anything that was remotely good about the Marvel Thor movies. He practically makes parodies of them, and for some reason people seem to love them.
I'd much rather read the most dense old Norse myth or saga than watch that junk.
Curse all Marvel blending with my gods.
Молния -molniya, with the stress falling on MO. Etymology can be followed back to мльниꙗ and the root мльн is interesting, because we find it nowadays in many words connected to milling such as mill (млин - Ukrainian), grist (мливо - Bulgarian) or ground-down (смлян - Bulgarian), which is also used for badly beaten.