Loki's brothers, Odin's brothers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 เม.ย. 2021
- Both Loki and Odin are said to have two obscure brothers. Deepening the mystery is that one of Loki's brothers has a name (Helblindi) used also by Odin himself.
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawford.com/ (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
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Plot twist: Dr(engr) Crawford didn't even add the epic music, it just started playing on its own when he read the list of hel-words.
It’s true. I just read them, and it started for me too.
What awesome sorcery is this?!
What comes to mind for me for "bee foot", aside from literal interpretations of a bee's foot, is someone who walks among bees, perhaps someone who gathers honey.
Huh that makes sense. I mean, mead is made of honey, isn't it
I got the image of one who flees myself. Considering the forms "bee foot" and "bee dolphin" my first thought was some kind of frantic movement.
"Bee foot" made me think of "stepped on a bee"...
Why I've got a feeling that three brothers represents Aesir, Vanir and Jotun. Wotan - Aesir, Vili/Loki - Jotan and Vé/Hoenir - Vanir. Honey gatherer would correspond with whole Vanir/Nurturing nature thing.
That was so funny when the music came in during the listing of the hel- compounds
Oh man...totally...so very METAL 🤘
Hel is spooky.
Is it just me that finds language fascinatingly difficult....? Dr Crawford makes it seem so simple, lol. Respect to all of you who speak multiple languages.
People are good at different things; I find language (except Greenlandic where I live) easy, but math hard.
Oh, you ... when the music started I was [corpse] Oh, man, some website opened a tab I didn't want?! Well played, sir, well played!
Býleistr could of course be like one of many Finnic circumlocutions for a bear, honey-hand or honey-paw
Alternatively, what do you think of the theory that rather than (Bý)(Leistr) or (Bý)(Leiptr), it’s derived from an older form of the attested Old Icelandic “Bylr” meaning a sea-storm?
For me the reason why Snorri didn't say that they are identical is because there is a riddle for the reader/listener to solve.
Riddles are common in Germanic mythology and the riddle of Odin's and Loki's common past and ancestry should be the biggest of mysteries.
The third brother would of course be Hœnir.
That'd be dope as hell. I personally see them as brothers.
13:34 when mom says you can cuss
Couldn't it also mean death or dead eye since he "killed" his own eye? That seems more appropriate than half eye. Edit: Now I am thinking about Odin's spear Gungnir and never missing it's mark, maybe Odin was the original Deadeye..
Or blinded by Hel?
This makes total sense to me. Odin being a sort of lich like ruler over dead warriors and bringing them back really enforces the half dead half alive thing. The one eyed necromancer “Helblindi” also know as Odin, brother of Loki 😂
Music suddenly playing was great addition :D
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee-foot
Loki had brothers? I never knew, cool. 4:05 #releasetheCrawfordcut of Poetic Edda.
I am waiting for him to release his translation of the King's Book.
@@LooniJoose There's a king book?
@@AndrewMaksymBrainNectar Codex Regus can be translated as King’s Book though technically a codex is just a book bound with a spine as opposed to a scroll or some other rarer methods.
it depens on what sorce you read... and Sturlason wrote his sagas several hundred years after Scandinavia and Icland ( where Snorre Sturlason lived) was christened. Its hopeless to interprentend the old myths with nowadays minds. And the old norse myts are in several layers. First it was the vaner - who was long before Odin and Tor - who actualy came from the earia around the black sea.
Yo Professor Crawford I bought a copy of your Poetic Edda translation. Thanks for doing all this work.
Your videos are so fascinating, I love them
Another great video, sir!
Interesting to follow you.
thank you very much for sharing your work
If Helblindi MIGHT be Odin, could Byleister be Hoenir? Since you said it could mean a thin foot like a bird and Hoenir apparently has some connection with roosters and other fowl.
Interesting thought
I've often wondered about that myself; "hønur" means "hens" in Faroese, and "hanar" means "roosters".
Not to mention they're always together, wandering about like brothers. Loki, Odin and Hœnir.
Thank you for this information.. I would love to hear you and arith harger have a talk.
Thank you for sharing your education!
I know that Snorri does a lot of kenning explaining, but perhaps to him this one was so obvious he needn’t mention it.
Or he was just sleepy and thought he wrote it down but didn’t. (This happens to me all the time)
Wonderful video :D
You’re pretty close to me man I’m on fort Carson pretty crazy. I really enjoy your videos good to find some stuff that’s separated with actual historical basis an more modern stuff
Perhaps Beefoot is nothing more than a reference to a now lost story of that god stepping on a bee.
To me the names of Loke's and Odin's brothers looks like descriptive traits of Loke and Odin. Bee-foot for dancing/disturbing/harmful-useful and Helblindi for blind of death like in contempt of death. Vile - Will - and Vé - Sacred - for Odin.
Very interesting!
Wondered about this with the Gylfaginning. The figures High, Even-high, and the Third are clearly the three brothers, but their clear identities are hidden.
Always in a trio
I could listen to this all day, let me know if you want help from a graphic designer.
So many good metal band names at the Hel- part. Helskor sounds great,ha ha. There is band called Helheim from Norway.....
What about haliþ + blindi, hero-blinder, from proto-Germanic haliþaz (which gives us the Old English Haele, Haelend etc.)
Bee Foot?
Maybe he's a fast and quick-striking fighter?
"Kill'em with bug bites"
Byleister might be connected to bear since bears likes messing with bee's nests to get honey
Interesting!
So handsome🤩
Could a "bee foot" not be somebody who delivers a sharp kick, or perhaps wears pointed shoes?
Dr. Crawford, what do you think of Old Norse in the Netflix show Ragnarok?
What about "hel" meaning whole? Does that come from Old Norse? Helblind means wholly blind in modern Danish.
Go read “Loki” by Mr Melvin Burgess. It’s a brilliantly funny but introspective depiction of the Norse gods and heroes from the perspective of the trickster god himself - has an interesting description for lokis brothers that relate nicely to source material about bees…seriously this book is like my bible and re ignited my love for Norse mythology 🦊
15:37 Couldn’t the name potentially be a pun, at least originally? In that he’s hell blind but it almost sounds like he’s half blind?
Hmm, is there a video explaining how Loki and Odin ended up sworn brothers? From the few stories Ive heard, they werent exactly best pals. (Though I know very little about the criteria for becoming a sworn brother in the first place.)
@@williamcooke5627 Regarding having some reason to put of with Loki, it could just be that he saved Freya from the one who (with his horse Svadilfari) built Asgard's wall. Loki's part in that story also left Odin with Sleipnir. It's the only story at the top of my mind where Loki is particularly helpful, but it seems to show that he is sometimes an asset.
As far as I'm aware there's no preserved story about how they became sworn-brothers. Sources like Lokasenna in the Poetic Edda mention the oath as an established fact but there's no preserved myth as to how or why that came about.
maybe beefoot is someone unsteady, hyperactive and Helblindi is someoene unaware of dangerous situations. With Loki as trickster they would be the goonbrothers
Bee Dolphin? hell yeah, I like it
Do you have any videos on the Runes? Why did Odin have interest in them?
He has many videos on runes. Search Jackson Crawford runes, and I am sure something will come up.
If you dont look like Baldur from God of War under that Carhartt I'm going to be very disappointed.
Is it possible that -blindi could cause i-umlaut? *halblindi->helblindi?
what if its a kenning in the sense of he is blind in the same way that hela is half dead half alive? hel-blindi, hel blind, blind in a way reminiscent of hel
Býleistr = bee's foot = 'The bee's knees!' The Norse invented hippie slang!
... well, it depens on what sourse you read... and you will see that i canges all the time... some means that Frøya ( Freya -who was the mother god long before Æsene came with theyr maculine warrier beliefs) and Odin melted together and was diffrent aspects of the god - both male and female. But Sturlason was cristian and the priest didn like Freya. So origial the dead was split among Freya/ Frøyas Folkvang and Odins Vallhall. If you realy are interested in this subject read Britt - Mari Nasstrøm a proffesor in history of religion University of Gøteborg/ Gothenburg
Honestly the first thing that comes to mind when I hear 'bee foot' is a bear. Stick in paw, pull out bees and honey, nom.
(sorry, seems like I all I have to offer in the comments is name speculation supported by nothing but my imagination)
So there is where "svär-" prefix to brother, sister, father, mother and parents come from...
Checkout the terms on wiktionary to get more info on them. All of them seem to come from one and the same indo-european root, described as "-in-law" in english, though I would think "sworn-" or "swear-" would be better. Probably refereing to the oath/vows sworn/pledged/spoken during a marriage ("svära en ed" = "swear an oath"). That mean a "svärdotter" is a "daugther by sworn oath", and not by birth.
However "svåger" (brother-in-law) and "svägerska" (sister-in-law) is according to wiktionary borrowed from Old Saxon and Middel German. The norwegian form of "sviger", "svigerinne", "svigersøster" is interesting though as it is pretty close to the verb "viger" (which is the blessing/act that make a marriage official and legit but also meaning "dedication"). Not sure there is a connection though...
@@sirseigan
Yeah.
I just never made the connection in my 32 years of life.
But it makes perfect sense.
@@sirseigan I assume the word sworn-brother is a modern creation modelled on Old Norse to explain this concept that we no longer practice because it is not attested and the word is wed-brother in both Old and Middle English. The wording ___-in-law is old but I don't think it's in Old English. In Old English it seems they mostly did it how we still do it in Modern English. Brōþorwīf, brother's wife. Stēopmōdor, stepmother. Fōstermōdor, fostermother. Except for -in-law. Mother-in-law was sweger. Father-in-law OR cousin was swēor. Brother-in-law / son-in-law was āþum.
Middle English brother-in-law.
'a1375(1335-1361) WPal.(KC 13)4757 : [We] schul be samen hole frendes, lelli breþeren in lawe.
c1400(?a1300) KAlex.(LdMisc 622)4392 : He was Darries broþer-in-lawe; He hadde wedded Romidas, Darries suster.
a1450(c1433) Lydg.St.Edm.(Hrl 2278)421/421 : Hys brother-in-lawe..his massagerys hath sent.
(?a1439) Lydg.FP (Bod 263)4.3307 : Tholome, Brother-in-lawe to Lysymachus, Fill on Seleuchus.
(1440) PParv.(Hrl 221)54 : Brodyr yn lawe: Sororius.
(1472) Paston5.159 : She sent her broder elaw to me.
?c1475 *Cath.Angl.(Add 15562)19a : A Broder elawe [Monson: Broder in law]: leuer.'
Middle English Wed-brother.
a1121 Peterb.Chron.(LdMisc 636)an.656 : Þa luuede se kining hit swiðe for his broðer luuen Peada and for his wed broðeres luuen Oswi.
c1275(?a1200) Lay.Brut (Clg A.9)16079 : Ga we nu to Yuni aʒan & to Iuore his wedde-broðere.
c1300 SLeg.Jas.(LdMisc 108)209 : Ake wed-breþerne huy bi-comen echon…heore treuþes huy pliʒhten alle bote on.
c1330(c1250) Floris (Auch)163 : We beþ wed breþren and trewþe ipliʒt.
a1350 Guy(3) (Add 14408)2043 : Tou me thy trouht plyht…and I the, An[d] wedbrether that we be.
c1400 Brut-1333 (Rwl B.171)120/26 : Haste þow my trewe wedbroþer [vr. wedded broþer] slayn.'
Is it possible "helblindi" could translate to "blind to death?"
@chelsea smith
Like as if he was bilnded and because of that couldn't survive?
👍🙋♂️🇧🇻
Do you sell merch
Maybe some of these names were inherited and mutated from some pre IE language
Maybe you can sell a shirt brødr from another mother
Nice
Byleistr is such a B-lister.... LOL.
I _low-key_ didn’t see that pun comin’.
Leave it to the professional to always source his argument with facts.
Is there any theories on why Loki is called Laufeys son? Is it not very unusual? I was wondering if it could relate to how pre-Christian Vikings had relationships. A man sometimes had both wife and friðla, and sons with both. Could calling a man son of his mother be a way to distinguish the blood ties that two men who have the same father have, by contrasting them? I have no idea if that was the case, just an honest question. Or could it be that Loki's father was dead or less prominent in his life than his mother, so he is called son of Laufey? Who calls Loki son of Laufey in the source material? Does it happen when Odin is present too? I thought they were just sworn brothers, but I started to wonder a bit when you considered if Borr and Fárbauti are the same. Would love a video on friðla and other terms and expressions related to how Norse society organized relationships and marriage.
(Side note: I love the Marvel movies, but half the fun as a Scandinavian is going "Seriously?!" every time a God gets a new parent...)
I dont know how legitimate this is but Laufey is (potentially) an Aesir while Farbauti is a Jotun, so maybe his Aesir heritage is more important?
That sounds possible.
He's called Loki Laufeyjarson in Lokasenna and in þrymskviða.
Laufey is a scandi spelling of Louhi.
I always just thought that "Loki Laufeyson" sounds better because of alliteration.
Hmmmm... Perhaps the answer to _'Helblindi'_ lies in Faroese?
In Faroese, due to gender/noun classes, there are at least three words for _half_ :
*Old Norse* -> *Norse* -> *Faroese*
_hálfr_ -> _halv_ -> m _hálvur_ | f _hálv_ | n _helvt_
That last one seems to match the pattern required, but I can't find anything on its etymology/morphology : C
As a sidenote the word _'halfblind'_ exists explicitly as _'hálvblindur'_ .
But you have watched the whole video, haven't you? He explaines why 'halfblind' does not fit as an explanation for the name.
sorry but i got distracted by the ground squizzle springing away at 0:40
Could Odin's 2 brothers be aspects of Odin?
The old Celtic gods and goddesses came in threes so there could be a parallel there.
It's a possibility. In Mesopotamia, the sky-father had three aspects, the northern hemisphere belonged to Enlil, the southern hemisphere belonged to Enki and the equator belonged to Anu. However the division of the heavens seems to have changed in Greek mythology where the night sky was associated with Ouranos, the daylight sky was associated with Zeus and the twilight with Cronus. If Odin was truly the sky-father, then perhaps his two brothers were only an aspect of him.
Sooo much lost to time.
Perhaps, or just riddles waiting to be solved.
A few of those names made Hel sound like a place of torment and suffering. I hope this is simply christianization in some way, and not that I have been wrong about Hel all this time.
Fortunately, regional and temporal variation is diverse enough that "Hel" was likely thought in some places and times, to be more or less about suffering than other places and times. The body of myth and folklore is pluralistic and thematic rather than canonical. That is, there is no centralized dogmatic narrative but rather a set of common themes and principles around which narratives were organized and created. I've always felt that understanding those themes and principles will tell us a lot more than dedication or openness only to specific narratives that we vibe with. If the Aesir have done anything with absolute certainty it is making sure that you don't get too attached to any particular narrative or interpretation in regards to them because like The Ase, Odin, what they are will change to the power and speed of your study. ;-)