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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2024
- Whether you’d played Yu-Gi-Oh Master Duel, the TCG, or the OCG, or even if you’ve only played similar card games you’ve likely heard the horror stories of how long a turn can be in Yu-Gi-Oh. Turns out lack of mechanics between card games can cause serious damage. We look at Hearthstone for inspiration as well as what Yu-Gi-Oh has done right and wrong to undo this curse and find out Why are Yu-Gi-Oh turns so long?
Describing handtraps as the right to bear arms against turn 1 tyrants is the funniest description for them by far.
It truly is a glorious quote hahaha 🇺🇸🦅🦅🎆🎇
The old ressource system - and I mean the VERY old ressource system - was simply to have a quite limited set of actions you could do each turn.
Summon a monster, than maybe a second through its effects, place a trap or two, play a spell and you're done, turn finished.
With the power creep of Yu-gi-Oh came "action creep" so to speak, and that's where it went nuts.
you have to think it was bound to happen tho when there was never literally a resource system. we can't just play goats until the sun explodes. and frankly most people don't want to
@@YeahTheDuckweed Yeah, point is the effects got so nuts they re-wrote the game from the short turns where only a few cards if any are played due to the original rules of what could be played in a turn, to the modern hellscape of endless turns we have now due to breaking the "caps" on numbers of card you play each turn.
Put simply, what happened was that the few limits the game had were bypassed by creating more and more broken effects to go past the two most crucial limits to the "old yu-gi-oh" feel: 5+ Stars monsters requiring tribute, and a single summon per turn allowed.
The "ressources" were action limits, which they basically just created new rules to get around of. In a way, you could consider this easier to "corrupt" than mana, but I'm not sure; power-creep is sadly just in the nature of most card games' lifetime, and Yu-Gi-Oh has been around for a quarter century, so its state isn't surprising.
@@Akranejames what exactly was re-written? magical scientist ftk is 21 years old bro
@@YeahTheDuckweed I went to go read about that FTK.
Pretty much something that subverts exactly what I said in a weird way, and honestly that's quite simply just a really badly thought-out card when it comes to its potential combos. I mean, the thing is banned for a reason, mate. Don't be stupid.
I don't think you really understand what I said if you think an FTK wasn't a weird thing to have at the time, and that something that became available around 2005 isn't already at the edge of the period of time I was talking about.
@@Akranejames 2005 is honestly way better than 2003. in the game's infancy they made mistakes like magical scientist and a little bit of quick course correction developed into the fan-favourite goat control. i get it. i'm not stupid haha i'm just taking the piss a little bit
I think the Extra Deck being a third hand is the biggest factor. It started with Synchros building summon chains to climb the levels, but you were at least limited by the tuners on the field, and needing to match correct levels. And the following formats eased up on that a bit. You could upgrade XYZ, but usually only if you drew a rank up spell from your deck, with a couple of exceptions like Galaxy Eyes. Pendulum was really powerful, but you still needed to get said cards from your deck into your hand.
Then Links came out: where most of the small Links are made to summon other monsters to flood the field and build bigger Links. At that point the Extra Deck really did become a third hand: instead of the Extra Deck usually being where you house your boss monsters that your main deck is trying to make, it became mostly extenders. The Extra Deck became the mechanisms of the deck, and the Main Deck was only needed to provide a way into the card that will serve as the ignition to those mechanisms, with some tech cards splashed in. And since the ED is always there, you don't need to set it up and move the needed cards into it like the GY or the actual Hand. Not to mention how many Links are generic, making them accessible to any deck that floods monsters on the field: further rewarding the long chains of summons play style. Then when that became the norm, other decks needed to start doing the same to keep up.
Pendulums were very strong, but I will always maintain that Links were an overcorrection that harmed the game more than it helped in the long run. That and hand traps, because when you add a mechanic to just draw into a free negate that can't be removed, you're just asking for the other deck to start doing more effect activations to keep playing past it.
yeah links are just the final straw
Im "that guy" that actually likes links but I can agree that they printed too many overly generic Links. Now there HAS to be Generic links for people to even play them but there are too many easily played ones. Accesscode talker, Transcode talker, Avramax, and I:P Masqurina were all a Mistake imo.
@@ultrawinggaming9764I don't think Avramax is that bad but I:P, Accesscode, and Transcode need cyberse links to be fair and even then it would still not be enough to do it (also they need to be bookable at least)
what do you mean "third hand"? What's the second one?
@@Mateo-kf1ud The Second hand is what some people call the Graveyard. Because there are so many cards with effects in the grave that it becomes a place to get resources on its own.
Defending? Did you see the MBT video? He straight up agrees with him for the entire thing.
It was a joke, most of the stuff in this channel is meant to be a joke
@@PuchuKt
It's always a joke until it suits someone
Raran had some good points about card games in general and the barrier to entry for Yu-Gi-Oh. Maybe if the community was more welcoming of new players it wouldn't feel so toxic. That's what MBT was agreeing with
The reason he agreed is because he’s right
I was once in a losing side of a match after being hit with evenly match. They proceed to NS Aleister, do a shaddoll combo, then do a branded fusion combo then BOOM they lost by time out before completing their board😂
Was getting outplayed by a dude, but he was taking took long so when he entered his battle phase to finish me off, i started activating random effects to which he could respond too. He ended up running out of time while trying to respond to a random maxx c
This right here is the exact reason why I think the problem with Red-Eyes isn't that it's Fusion Spell is too restrictive. It's that the archetype doesn't use a "Towers" playstyle in order to facilitate a single Fusion per turn, and that's it. It should be given support that allows it to just use spell/traps more easily and to protect whatever boss monster you summon
I mean, both are true. At this time, the playstyle of Red-Eyes means REF is too restrictive, but future support can help shift the playstyle of the deck to make REF feel better.
I feel this as a red eyes player myself and if they just made red eyes fusion like neos fusion where you can save it for the end of your combo instead of either only having one summon or cheesing it with verte would make the archetype that much better especially in master duel where dragoon, the only red eyes fusion worth the current cost, is forever banned.
I think this mentality is how I differ the most from other yugioh players
I think the Red-Eyes kind of design is fine, they have ways to recourse from the grave, do big damage, float when destroyed, even yoink opponent monsters with in-archetype cards
It's just that the environment around red-eyes is extremely toxic. I'm on the camp of bringing other deck's power down to the point they are more similar to what red-eyes does rather than buffing red-eyes until the point they have ways to have indestructible boss monsters on the field, because that's not fun or interactive at all.
@@LookingForTheTop nah fuck that I want five headed red eyes black chick dragon just like ignister have his link with 36645 arrows
The problem with Red-Eyes is that its core gameplan has been changed by Konami about 12 times. Right now it's in a position where if they leaned into its best gameplan, that being burn the deck would probably become an FTK powerhouse.
When you just want to complete your dailies but your opponent takes ten minutes to finish his turn. When he is done he practically locked you out of the game and wasted 10 minutes you can't get back.
I played someone like that today on MD - went away, put my food in the microwave, made a cup of tea just in time for the food to be ready (so a good 7 / 8 minutes) and they still took another 2 minutes after to finish that turn 😂
This is why turn timers for both players need to be limited to one minute and thirty seconds per turn
I've started using my own timer and once it goes past 4 minutes I just scoop and go next
@@Sigmaairav turn timers need to keep going during summon animations, card activations, and so on instead of pausing
I'm sorry to tell you this, but if you get full combo'd and you have no interruptions, it's on you to understand that you may need to just scoop and go next..
Master Rule 6: You can only Special Summon twice per turn.
Problem solved.
Branded despia would dominate
Infernity and six samurai become tier 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Unplayable with your new rule
Fun fact: Many cards allow you to normal summon more than 1 monster per turn :)
@@pedrofelipefreitas2666 Then that card give you your 3+ summons, then no more for the turn.
No more half-of-your-deck-in-one-turn combos!
@@A88mph
Floowandereeze: "Allow us to introduce ourselves."
Lack of a "resource" system is not the answer either. When you see MTG's legacy formats like Legacy or even Vintage, they still do a lot of broken combos, matches end in one or 2 battle phases and they barely spend any mane for anything.
IMO this is more of a fundamental desing flaw(s) in YGO card design. The push for every box to sell forces them to elevate the power curve more exponentially without track consideration on how balanced they can be.
Like, they allow things like Testament and Zodiac to happen, and they were fine with them.
To be fair, unless one player is playing a blue disruption deck, MTG Legacy and Vintage (and even Un-format) still allows for both players to do those broken combos.
YGO's flowchart is this:
Does player going second have enough hand traps?
If no, player going first plays a huge turn and locks player going second out of playing
If yes, player going second prevents player going first from playing their turn, and then plays a huge turn and locks player going first out of playing
Legacy and Vintage are not formats representative of MtG's design philosophy for sets. They are a rather niche game mode. You should be looking at Modern/Standard, or at least Draft, which is self-contained within each expansion.
I've noticed a lack of Xenolocks on the most recent meta decks. Stuff like Kashtira and Tearlaments which allows them to do crazy combos with wiggle room to make Abyss Dweller. I'm not saying they should all be Flower Cardians but generic combo access is an advantage for tech choices these meta decks do not deserver.
A good middle ground would be something like Arcjet Lightcraft where the Xenolock is a Continuous Effect - not a lingering restriction/effect. Meaning it would only apply while on the field. It can make for much more complex decisions by preventing pivoting to tech choices in the middle of xenolock combos but still allow them as an eventual option.
Kashtira do not ever play dweller because arise-heart is already a macro, I guess you are a MD player? If so you'll find out how xenolock doesn't really balance kash very soon.
@@azureblue99 dweller is prob in regards to tear
You can also have lighter locks, for example Tear locking you into fusions
Just don't make it hard archatype locks. Simple type locks would restrict the cards heavily while not locking away your options completely.
Xenolocks are rare in yugioh, at least for meta decks. I cant think of 10 tier 1 decks with hard xenolocks in them in all of yugioh. Also neither tear or kash have crazy combos, kashtira especially is about as simple as it gets.
People really just type things on the internet and press send huh
I’d argue the actual evolution they’ve taken with the main game is in the form of “our turn” decks.
Fewer decks are built around ten minute turn 1s, with more of them doing five minutes of plays on every turn instead… whether that’s better or worse is a matter of some debate.
It's definitely up to debate, on one hand It's make it possible for the player to interact with hard go second deck but on the other hand it make the already struggle deck struggle even more.
I'd argue it is an improvement over the past few years, at least at a more competitive level. Less non games, resulting in a more fun time playing the game. However, decks that can play on both turn often completely invalidate more casual decks that cant. In a few years itll likely be an unquestionably good thing, but for now, less sure
@@Jaeger460 if that's the case, legacy support should focus more on "our turn" for older archetypes
@@linuxblacksarena they probably will, and I expect we'll see the likes of that kind of gameplay for decks like DM, BEWD, cydra, hero etc within the next year or so, with more niche legacy support coming over time
Just what I want; escaping MtG's blue nonsense and going into Yugioh's turbo blue nonsense.
Yugioh used to be a game where your 5 starting cards _were_ your only resource in a turn. You'd even try not to use your entire hand so you wouldn't lose it all and have no follow up. The problem started when searching and mass draw effects became a thing. Even graveyard effects wouldn't be that bad of a problem if you only got 1 extra card go into play every 2 turns.
yeah in like 2002
I feel like this aspect is ignored a lot when diagnosing what's gone wrong with yugioh. It seems like every single card lets you search your deck for whatever it wants or needs, to the point where your entire deck may as well be face up in front of you for the entire game. Many cards let you search and immediately play a bunch of nonsense as well as having their own major effects, which would have been banworthy back when special summons were actually special. Little wonder why cards have so much text you can't read them, or why everyone is forced to play multiple copies of the same hand traps to counter everything.
Six back then now player one starts with 5 with how "balanced" the game is. 😂
Konami really has to make their 5-minute time limit absolute. Why even have a time limit if you're just gonna reset it every single time the player does something. People will literally abuse that gimmick and make the opponent rage quit.
Cause some archetypes that require that time to play specially with the slow af gameplay/animations its a core issues of the game not so much a time límite thing
@StokerGamer so just to make a few gimmick players happy, they make everyone else suffer. That makes alot of sense.
@@misterOrca4 wasnt so bad years back it's gotten to this point mainly thanks to powercreep, for Konami it some what makes sense whether it's good Game design or healthy for the player base it's another story
5 minuets is too long, make the timers 1 minute and thirty seconds, no more no less
@@Sigmaairavbro that's only enough time to physically play, that's not enough time to THINK
Ramen's video brought me back to how i felt on the realse of master duel
You know what’s funny? We have seen a format with a “mana system” - it’s called Turbo Duels from 5D’s. I really do like Speed World/Speed World 2 and the idea of Speed Spells and kinda wish we could get that as an actual format.
No one look Ikes that format besides blind 5Ds fan boys.
No one likes waiting to use spells and restrictions like speed counters makes spells unusable.
Every deck would be monster mash or trap heavy.
Turbo duels would only make trap heavy decks and floodgates cite decks stronger
@@soukenmarufwt5224 It was made for a slower game and the idea is remaking spells as Speed Spells for that format. (Basically take modern Speed Duels where they are printing cards for that format and just make all the Spells into Speed Spells and balance some of the broken ones a bit.
Also you’re the first person I’ve heard ever complain about the idea of the format. Everyone else hates modern Yugioh and wants it to be slower. This would at least be an interesting alternate format that could be explored… especially as Speed Duels is kinda a meh format.
@@soukenmarufwt5224 aw you sound mad. You can't live without Kashtira lol😆
Play speed duel. Everyone play trap cards instead of spell
@@Celestial_Wingwdym this just pushes monster combo heavier decks and kashtira would still be okay in such a format since all their monster have good effects. These rules wouldn't make the game slower but push monster heavier decks
In person, Yu-gi-oh has a lot more back and forth. I don't know if its because of different banlists, or because its more difficult to predict hand traps (in MD 90% of the time you can guess what hand-traps they have and 50% of the time what their back row is by when the game pauses) - but most games at my locals go on for at least a good 5 or 6 turns, even with meta decks that would 1-2 turn in MD.
most yugioh matches do last 5+ turns. the difference is on master duel people are more likely to scoop before the game gets dragged out to said turns.
@@BlindOracle00 I've been playing it from the start and (at least outside of the lower tiers where you see a lot of fun/rogue decks) 90% of my games have been OTKs in turns 1-3 even if you don't factor in the scooping.
Unless you end up against runick or Skystriker the vast majority of games will end in the first few turns naturally with the hyper-tuned meta decks everyone runs.
@@JimIBobIJones I swear to god I prefer being out of the game against kashtira than ever facing skytriker or salamangreat and suffer death by a thousand cuts and being grind out
my in person experience is different, playing against a rikka sunavalon deck that stalls, heals and wins in time
so in that example he is rewarded for stalling the game (waste 45 minutes and lose due to time rules)
@@scribdfukkyu9630 Stall decks are pretty scummy IRL. Sorta understandable (but still scummy) at higher level tournaments like YCS but anyone who brings them to locals are deplorable.
Another problem is "Special Summon". There is nothing special about it if it's happening so frequently. If anything, normal summoning is special
i get the frustration but it's just a word tbh
@@YeahTheDuckweedit's a rule, it serves a purpose, and ignoring that purpose is why the game fell apart.
I believe monsters that are summoned out of the extra deck into a zone NOT the extra zone or a zone a link Monster points to, should suffer a game mechanic similar to MTG’s SUMMON SICKNESS in which the monsters effect is negated and cannot attack on the same turn it is summoned. There can be ways to circumvent this with other effects and spell/trap cards to assist with that but that would require resources, considerably hindering what your deck is able to respond to if you focus on spamming a field.
@@ManofSteel4889 I've started playing Lorcana, and they have summoning sickness
The one key problem with the card design that went into both Branded and Swordsoul is that the reward is too good for how little investment there is to it. It doesn't fix the over all problem it just makes new players frustrated to see the opponent get a powerful set up for next to no effort while they're stuck hoping to either get something of the ground or the usual draw the out.
The difference is that Branded NEEDED that for being a Fusion deck, which is a mechanic notorious for minus-ing. Swordsoul didn't, and on top of that, their starters are essentially one card Synchros that doesn't use REAL Tuners.
not any sword soul card can make anything without another worm or ss in hand or grave there literlly all two card synchros which is very fair relitvly@@Grayewick
@@armormaster88 you really think having a Swordsoul card or a Wyrm monster, in a SWORDSOUL DECK, is a "requirement"? You're delusional.
I'd much rather it cut to the chase than be a 20 card combo to do the same thing. At least with swordsoul and branded I'm only frustrated with the power of the board.
@@mr.protagonist5639 Neat. A deck that lives or dies if they get their 1 card off.
And people wonder why the game is Rocket Tag.
I've played master duel since launch and i stopped. The restrictions on the card telling the player what the can summon isnt a gameplay restriction, but more of a deck building one. If youre going to spamming dark attributes from the extra deck, who cares about the restrictions set by one card
Yes, Branded Fusion locks you into only extra deck fusion monsters for the turn? Oh no, what ever will I do in my fusion deck that only runs 1 non-fusion monster in the extra deck, that I don't even need to summon turn 1 because one of the fusion monsters can just summon it on my opponents turn, and said fusion monster can also be summoned on my opponents turn as well.
"Even the most unknown, pack filler, only seen on a cultishly devoted youtube channel archetype that you can imagine probably has some one card combo setup that goes at least +3"
*Cries in Fortune Lady*
The game does not need a resource system, it needs legitmate balance, the new cards can seemingly make damn near free plays on either turn which drains a lot of the enjoyment of the game, especially when you get hit with that 3 minute play when its on your turn.
The problem isn't the resourcelessness. The problem is that every card is simultaneously 3 cards at once. Bequested Witch of Sangan doesn't just tutor when it leaves play anymore, it would now summon itself from hand when your opponent diddles their joystick, and banish itself from grave to tutor something else from deck to grave. Which means each player is effectively starting with 15 cards in hand. Also the Extra Deck is almost a second hand every player can access, and each of *those* cards is worth 3 cards simultaneously.
It's functionally the equivalent in old yugioh of going "here's an alternate game mode, both of you just start with your entire deck in your hand. Have fun." in terms of both complexity and power.
That's the thing Yugioh still has resources. The resources in yugioh are essentially card effects.
Old style Yugioh is still somewhat possible.
Just have a friend to open random packs of the same set with and play with that.
Or just buy a speed duel box with pre-constructed decks
@@Kenneth-b7u Konami can make GOAT or Edison as official format and release new cards for them. It is better for player than Speed Duel. Player can use them as "practice" before playing the real modern YGO, or if they love it, they can stay too. It give more option for the player. While Speed Duel, it still very difficult to jump from Speed to Advanced format because both of them are very different.
I mean stun deck is basicaly still the same as old school stun deck
Also labrynt and traptrix deck is basicaly boils down to "set 5 card facedown and then i end my turn"
@@thaariqbinaziz2821if u setting 5 with traptrix and passing u either bricked or don't know what u doing.
@@thaariqbinaziz2821 Only noobs said Traptrix (and post AGOV Labrynth) is a set 5 deck. Hell, recent YCS Richmond proves that Salamangreat bring more floodgates than Labrynth.
If someone is using their turn to summon an entire deck I just out wait my turn later to make them sit and wait. Every 10th second a touch the screen so the duel continues. God, this game is broken and dysfunctional. -.-
For me yugioh is more of a puzzle game, usually about how can I destroy the opponent's board or stop them advance more by execute handtrap at the right time
The thing is you can make your own rule too. Me and my roommates play with limits on summons and only one direct attack per turn so that was can actually play out games.
nah i play at real tournaments so i have to play by real rules lol
I will just play anti-meta/paleo/labyrinthe and auto win.
I think they should put a limit to how many extra deck summons per turn to like 2 or 3 while special summons from the deck, hand and GY to a total of 3 to 5. So with a limit the player can't just fill up the field as easy and once the player reaches the limit that's it, finish the turn, wait till the next turn to do more instead of 10min on one bloody turn.
The problem is that it really cant be fixed anymore, yugioh isnt broken, its just that way. And even ED heavy decks like dragonlike would easily pull off things like hieratic seals + branded beast + regained + borreload savage +3 in hand
@@SaragossiDeer
Not being able to be fixed doesn't mean it's not broken. That means it's irreparably broken.
Rush duel: text is much shorter and easier to read. pretty much one effect per card in rush unlike master duel long text and hard to read pretty much can't read.
It's important to remember that the reason that Yugioh doesn't have a resource system is because it was a manga and anime first, and wasn't intended to be an actual game. Adding in a resource system like lands or energy or mana means a lot of book keeping. The yugioh anime would be garbage if you had to watch the characters track their mana and explain the costs of their cards and play a land or energy every turn etc. It doesn't have a resource system not because it was actually designed intelligently from the ground up with that environment in mind, but because it would be boring to watch on a screen or in a book.
The greatest irony is, a resource system normally exists to slow down the game and encourage a system where you ramp up and curve out. The yugioh anime and manga, despite not having a system like this for the sake of dynamic storytelling, still often has these heavy back and forth escalating duels where the biggest plays are the climax rather than up front. The system that the anime and manga excluded in order to facilitate dynamic and fun to watch duels, is precisely the same system that facilitates the gameplay style of dynamic and fun to watch duels. The game has no resource system because that would be a terrible viewing experience, and yet the duels in the series arbitrarily follow gameplay patterns only made possible by the same system they declined to use.
Having no resource system really affects yugioh pacing. I just rewatched the wcs 2023 and a lot of duels did last more than 3 turns and I can understand why people say modern yugioh still have a lot of back and forth. However, unlike other card games where they speed up after every turn, yugioh immediately slows down after turn 2.
"The yugioh anime would be garbage if you had to watch the characters track their mana and explain the costs of their cards and play a land or energy every turn etc."
Right, because surely that would never come up even for cards that have costs. Oh wait... "I TRIBUTE THREE MONSTERS TO SUMMON OBELISK THE TORMENTOR! THEN I TRIBUTE MY TWO OTHER MONSTERS TO USE ITS EFFECT, FIST OF FATE! THIS DESTROYS ALL MONSTERS ON YOUR SIDE OF THE FIELD AND DEALS 4000 DAMAGE TO YOUR LIFEPOINTS, WINNING ME THE DUEL!"
Also, turbo duels, the main focus of 5Ds, had speed counters.
Alot of power creep defense too like la jinn intentionally power creeping mechanical chaser is just wrong as both existed in the manga with the same stat line far before even showing up in the tcg
As far as im aware in the manga
The yugioh card game was not even a big deal orginally, it was just the pet game of kaiba who was intended as a one off enemy
Yugioh at least going by what the manga intended was just suppose to be many of the games featured in the story
Mokuba was a capsule monsters player in manga as example
The story more focused around week to week random games, one day they played dragon cards and another day it was dungeon dice monsters
Also bad argument
Peak only watched yugioh mentality
It can work in a anime to include resources afterall duel masters is a anime based on a card game of the same name which had a mana system
shoutout to chubbyemu
best medical/educational content on youtube by far
good video btw and great intro
The only thing konami needs to do for all the power creep is lower the text on cards put color bulletins for red for cost blue for effect on field, black for effect in grave, and purple for effect in graveyard
they are kind of doing this with Rush Duels, but yeah, the master rule games should also implement this
Most play yugioh because they dont want mana management bs they prefer play under restriction.
@@Siphakid what does that have to do with my post?
"Only one normal summon" -laughs in floowandereeze
as funny as floo is, they're basically special summoning. a rose by any other name smells as sweet
i feel like you also have to understand that a lot of these decks that make strong boards in such few summons is a way to mittigate the like turn skip that is maxx c.
3:31 what sucks about this is the graveyard used to be for only certain decks like Ligthsworn chaos etc. It was something cool and not every deck relied on it. Coming back 10 years later and its insane how every deck is identical 😂
Yes, but it was BS in those decks. Just because you played Lightsworn meant your chance of winning was automatically higher. Oh you mill 15, hmm four names, how many JD in Hand? You win man. Oh... you're playing darks too? You got BLS, oh cool. It was such a stupid mechanic because there was no other attribute that could do that. Then they came out with the Elemental Lords, each with their own gimmick. And some of them were utterly useless because they were based on their attribute gimmick. But none of them were even close to Chaos, or JD. And they had restrictions where the number in grave had to specifically be 5, not only that but if they were removed from field for any reason you lost your battle phase. You know who didn't have that restriction, Chaos and JD. Who could make problems dissappear Chaos and JD. If you went against lightsworn your only hope was that you opened the nutz, and beat them before they beat you, or they managed to mill all the JDs and Chaos monsters.
If Yugioh really made you feel like Yugi Muto you'd summon a crap vanilla then immediately start cheating.
And enlisting the help of ancient Egyptian magic and a pharoh as well
Nah, if anything it makes you feel like Kaiba.
"Did you just summon a bunch of monsters in one turn?"
"Yeah. So?"
"That's against the rules, isn't it?"
"Screw the rules -I have money- I'm playing a stupidly expensive meta deck that should never have been printed but Konami did anyway because it drives sales."
@@VestedUTuberthis is only half out of touch. tier 3 and worse decks often cost even more and take even longer to play. the meta is TIGHT
@@YeahTheDuckweed
Lower tier decks being even more expensive doesn't change the fact that the meta's still expensive.
@@VestedUTuber literally true!
Remember when a single cyber dragon getting dropped on you was the scariest thing you had to worry about?
Neither does Konami.
I never knew that I needed a ygo themed chubbyemu video till now.
7:26 if we do that, why not just use Duelist Kingdom rules by that point?
I mean that's essentially what Rush Duel already is
2:06 maaaaan why is it always my D/D/D deck being shown as the “complex example”, when there are decks like pend magish and Endymion that exist
I think its because it was the first super complicated combo deck that created the whole idea of combo spreadsheats and at the time of its release was the most convoluted.
Endymion's not complicated, you just need to spam spell cards and if you use it 3+ times, you can do something
@@blastmole299 Let me guess - you never actually played it. Endymion is a pretty complex deck, especially when trying to bait disruptions going second. I got multiple tops in the european challenger cups with endymion (including tear 0 format and the format afterwards dominated by spright and tear) and I can tell you its not as easy as it looks just watching the combos.
@@mcmisterhd1920 It's actually my main deck in MD, I guess that's why it's not complicated for me
@@blastmole299 🗿🗿
Most effects can't be activated more than once per turn so drawing more cards doesn't automatically mean playing more cards.
The problem is that it rarely doesn't mean that.
You either dont play yugioh or you play super casually, bc drawing cards in ygo is always good, and 90% of the time means playing more cards
@user-ml6sl4yx2d
You don't know what you're talking about.
Bro has negative idea of what he's talking about
Dark world would like to have a word with you
What killed yugioh, idk maybe the, standby phase to opponent, 50 chain effects, main phase 1, back to opponent 50 chain effects, battle phase, opponent 50 chain effects, end phase opponent needs another 50 chain effects. Opponents turn takes 45 mins to put out two cards and to finish just the first main phase.
burger king coupon is actually more useful than a second ash
At this point the normal summon is more special than the yhe special summons
I think two particular things worth noting that also affect the perception of YGO when you go a bit further into the game are negation as a mechanic and floodgates. There's a reason that the meme that saying no to your opponent is the most powerful tool exists, as being disabled from playing can feel very unfun and break the game for some. I'm not saying every deck out there is a negate-fest, and as far as I've seen, Konami is trying to slowly move away from that, though floodgates are questionable still, but in many levels, the interaction between players is hampered with both. There's an argument to be made that having the "skill" to rebound from negates and knowing _when_ to use negates is important, but I'm personally not really a fan of this design on a more fundamental level.
YGO is kind of insane when you think about it, as no other card game out there has effects as wild, but at the same time, it can be too chaotic for some. The game is absolutely way too fast, and I still stand that this can be seen in Trap cards. Modern "good" Trap cards need to be _very_ strong or have an immediate way to be activated to be viable (Solemn being in the ironic space that it's old but is a negation). Konami has been experimenting with them too via archetypes like Labrynth and Traptrix to... interesting results, but neither has really taken the competitive scene yet.
Eh, there's a reason I like to just watch the game and not play anymore lmfao.
OH ALSO. I still find hilarious that there were people running Dogwood to get some sacky timeout wins against i think Ishizu-Tear? I forget when it happened, but using the time limit like that is just stupidly funny to me.
As a person who gave up on yugioh and only shows up occasionally to see what new cards have come out, I can say that the turns being long is not as bad as what they end on.
The turns take long because the game is so imbalanced that people are afraid of what their opponent could be playing, so they make extra sure that they cant play so they can ensure they even get to play.
And for those who just enjoy doing super long combos, they dont realize that a combo deck is still a combo deck even if the combo takes a few turns to pan out.
Im not one of those guys that just wants yugioh to go back to how it was because it was never any better than it is right now.
But back to my original point, yugioh doesn't have boss monsters anymore. They just have extra deck extenders that lead into more extenders because nothing is worth summoning anymore unless it basically says you win the game.
You could argue that yugioh players are impatient, and that's true, but that doesnt stop the game from being filled with cards that enable them to just step on the gas and race beyond the finish line. The restrictions are flimsy, The effects are busted beyond belief for no reason, and apparently, the banlist doesn't exist.
The video does make a point that Konami is designing around this new speed, but that just means that soon, a normal summonable monster will just be a boss monster on its own.
I just wanna reach some kind of equilibrium where powerful cards dont have to be game winning, and weaker cards are integral to a strategy.
it's just a natural consequence of power creep more than anything because it took Konami too long to figure out how to sell cards without just making the new cards more and more busted every year.
I would agree with you ,but konami also noticed this issue and is now making great progress in card design to avoid that. Most meta Yu-Gi-Oh decks are more midrange with that make decent turn 1 board with superb fallowup (like unchained and purrely) rather than a do or die unbreakable combo board.
Don't get me wrong that does not mean such deck do not exist, there's this plant deck that recently won a very big event that does just that, and with one normal monster to add in salt to injury.
Thankfully this play style isn't that good because of existence of very strong singular cards that can destroy board like there's no tomorrow and tool built in the archytipe to help deal with such oppressive board, so decks that do all in going 1st have a good change of getting their board broke,the opponent comboes on top of the rumble and since you didn't leave any fallowup you can't beat their weak end board
@raykirushiroyshi2752 you're not wrong, but there are 3 problems with that idea. Unchained is automatically broken because it has the ability to use the opponent's play starter as material for their own nonsense, purrley's entire playstyle is a multi-negate xyz stack that refills your hand for said follow-up, and people can still play the same broken negate heavy nonsense they've always played because the banlist does not exist. Just because Konami has pulled away from it doesn't mean people actually want to use these decks, and even then, they're all still broken.
What yugioh should have done is:
Generic - toolbox monsters
Arch locked - negates, floodgates and towers
This system where any deck can make any extra deck monster that is relevant is absurd.
@@roncerjani9063 Archetype locked and heavily restricted. What are toolbox monsters again? I just wanna see if we have differing definitions.
Wow what you say at the end really summsrizes why i still like this game. Theres always the feel that the perfect one card can change the game. I just wish it wasnt always maxx c on master duel.
I think if the game was overhauled to use some kind of limiter mechanic, YGO would turn out a bit more fun. Perhaps instead of "summoning only one monster up to level 4" perhaps "summon up to 4 stars worth of monsters" might make some other cards more feasible. Or perhaps have gameplay determined by how many UR cards are in the deck (most/all of the METAs are composed of 50-75% UR cards I've noticed).
There's a game I played called "MYTHGARDE" who uses a good resource system called "Reforging." This means that a card from hand is selected to be reshuffled back into the deck to apply resource (mana/gem), and in doing so some cards get a benefit for being used as a resource having an added effect for being Reforged.
Maybe if they applied star levels to the spells as well (discard/sacrifice spells/traps to cast/set spell of choice).
yu gi oh needs to limit the amount of summons you can do in a damn turn
The REAL question should be instead, "why not?"
At some point, there's nothing else left to be done, but to do MORE. I do not get why people cannot get a grasp of this simple concept, that eventually, the things that they hate about the game now WILL have to be made anyway because it's the only thing left to do.
Don't even get me started on decks that use your turn for more chains
Not like that Vanilla YGH had cards that did exactly that aka traps and quick play cards.
That line about Jessie vs the kid with catapult turtle had me CACKLING ☠️
gotta love the chubbyemmu parody
THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING?!?! Why is all the comboing necessary?!?! I got the branded deck and thought it was strange that I don't make a million plays for my end board, but that's how it should be imo. If they could minimize the amount of plays necessary for your end board that would be greay
Been playing Pokémon tcg recently “I’m a yugioh player” and I would say that the energy isn’t wat slows down the game state at least not anymore it used to be that you can only attach 1 energy per turn from hand thus making it like 2-3 turns till ur able to attack but nowadays you have stuff like Charizard which wen summoned he automatically attaches 3 energy to himself wen he only needs 2 for his attack you could also just attach to any other pokemon instead
The part that slows down the game is evolution because you need to wait a turn to do so and you need either a rare candy to skip the middle evolution and go from basic stage 1 “charmander” to straight up Charizard so you have to wait a turn AND find ur combo pieces to evolve then ur cooking and u can just start swinging away if ur opponent hasn’t setup turn 2 it’s GGs it’s actually very much like yugioh where a winner is decided very early on unless both players setup field turn 2 then it gets interesting
@@zackdiaz6375Also, your most powerful enablers (Partner trainers, aka the game's NPCs) are true once per turn where they lock you from continuing, not like YGO where you use "hard" once per turn effects 10 times in a row.
@@N12015 yeah the support cards are once per turn, i really like the new item/ tool cards they just added in the most recent set it lets you Devolve your opponents pokemon I think that slows the game down if both players have evolution decks but if not then it’s a complete blow out 😂😅
And tus I am reminded of the DS games based on 5Ds with Turbo Duels and SO MANY SPELLS RETRAINED FOR SPEED WORLD!
The battery on my card died so I'm stick in New Game until Power Off...
Q_Q
I wish duel master was like ygo duel evolution or acceleration..where they would release cards slowly..giving us online only players time to learn and adapt to all these newer cards (starting from xyz or towards the end of synchron era)
Loved the (original Runescape) Al Kharid Old School Runescape music track !
If turns are shorter, then whatever allows for those shorter turns are despicable to go against.
Looking at you, Branded and Swordsoul.
The biggest problem Yugioh has, popularity wise, is that the formats that are the least accessibele and objectively fun to new players, are the ones that Konami keeps pushing new players into. It's a bold move to promote Advanced Constructed and Master Duel to novices while they'd probably have a better experience with Speed Duel or Time Wizard.
Rarran was invited by Farfa who basically wanted to poke fun of him for being bad at Master Duel which unsurprisingly didn't sway him, but when Cimo asked him to play a few games of Edison his mood shift couldn't have been bigger.
Yugioh actually took some thought in when to play certain cards and didn't rely on effect monsters to win duels ontop of top of attacking and summoning during attacking while able to attack still and keep attacking. I bet players would not be able to even win without having to use effect monsters. They need to make a rule where there is a limit per turn on special summons and sychro/link/xyz summons and limit the amount of effect monsters in a deck and less time per turn
Yugioh's lack of resource system wasn't a problem when the game was made, because you'd be limited to your hand, only one draw, and only one summon/set. Special summoning was special. An exception.
Which is why I'm of the opinion that draw-power, deck search, graveyard/banished interaction and even special summoning is ALL potentially game breaking if not designed carefully. Because all of that bypasses those core limiting mechanics of the initial game.
Now, I do hear you guys when you say that "X mechanic has been a thing for a long time, it was just the natural development of the game, it's a part of what yugioh is".
And sure. It's a part of Yugioh is. Or rather, has become. By breaking apart from what it initially was. And if you like that, then fine, good for you. I just ask that you recognise that the game only became what it is today, by breaking what it was. Hence why I refer to those types of effects as "game breaking"
A fellow Chubbyemu enjoyer
Long combos are ok. Powerful boards are ok. Whats bad is the limited options of real disruption. Most traps oriented towards disruption nowadays are unplayable trash because they're too slow. Make more traps as fast and easy to use as Imperm or Ash (not a trap, but works as one). Make more quick-play spells like Book of Moon, capable of disrupting a play mid-combo by negating one monster effect.
Yeah, I want to buff labrynth too
Honestly having more trap cards that can be activated straight from the hand but have additional effects if you set them is something I’m surprised Konami hasn’t done more of.
ugh, resource systems are the bane of combo players existence. The one reason why I really dislike a lot of other card games.
I hate how I can’t play my cyber dragons.
And that my friends is why I moved to Pokemon tcg!
Set one pass style Boomer Yugioh is fun and I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
(I like more modern eras too though, it’s just a very different game now).
I disagree, I think it's incredibly boring
Really sad to see the Swordsoul/old Branded philosophy being abandoned. Even these decks are in the dust, the former left to be forgotten and the latter joining the combo piles.
ygo used to got 'restriction'. the better the card is (stat or effect), the harder it is to use. its used to be a game where player can only summon/set 1 monster per turn (via normal summon). used to be a game where LP and hand advantage were important. for these reason, special summon was indeed special years ago. old ritual monster and gate guardian is prime example to this 'restriction'. as time passes, effect monster begin to turn the game ugly as konami keep making monster that got multiple effect to the point someone can made a deck 90% monster
LP advantage has never mattered. Hand advantage still matters. Ritual was special because it was bad, needing 2 specific cards + tributes wasn't good even back then.
I agree people can make a 40-card deck with 36 monsters now though, it won't be a good deck and you could also do that 2 decades ago but you're right on that.
@@fnfgammer2014 LP advantage never matter? wall of revealing light + life equalizer were hit by banlist for it tho
there also time lp under 1000 give worries for that random gagaga cowboy
@@satyayana1399 I admit, I'm wrong. LP advantage still matters in some cases, even to this day. In formats where you go to time often, cards like Dogwood do see some play.
By the time CED was released special summoning was already pretty common, and that's only some 2 years into the game.
@@pedrofelipefreitas2666 trust me. by the time CED released you cant just halve you deck to summon 2/3 of your extra in a turn using regular deck
Loved the video, I'm already a fan of the channel!
I think questions like that are a bit misleading. Yu-Gi-Oh is fine as is. Remember, it's not a typical card game like others. It is NOT meant to be played turn by turn, with each player playing their turn while their opponent stands and watch. Rather, Yu-Gi-Oh is a card game based on player interaction. With that in mind, If your opponent takes a million hours to play a turn, chances are, your deck isn't very good, as it's unable to meaningfully interact with your opponent; you're playing the game incorrectly and need to revise it.
It's like trying to play football with your hands and then being frustrated that you are getting penalized for it and calling people good with their feet "meta sheep, tryhard losers". They're just playing the game as intended, it's YOU who's trying to force an ineffective playstyle on yourself and getting ANGRY because of it, just play handball instead! Saying things like "handtraps ruined the game" is objectively wrong, because the game is MADE to be interactive. If you don't like this, then you just don't like the game, BUT the game itself is JUST FINE for what it is, because guess what? The game actually is very balanced and its playerbase is the highest it has ever been!
This has always been the case. Trap cards, quick-play spells and monster quick effects are not a thing in other card games and those have existed since the game's inception. Card strength and your GY being "your second hand" isn't the problem if everyone can take advantage of those things. Tearlaments can be the best deck of all time, but it means jack shit if you can just nerf it until it's on par with other strategies. With that in mind, even if something does get out of hand, it is quickly fixed, restoring a relative balance (there's always going to be a best deck, it's inevitable).
Modern ygo is absolute crap. If you dont have a hand trap you lose. Heck, even with hand traps you lose after 7 minutes of watching your opponent set up the board with 5 plus cards
I think rush duel is the direction Konami wants yugioh to go in. Other Japanese CCGs have simplified card text , larger artwork, easy to understand rules (for the most part) while still maintaining the complexity of the game. The card games that come to mind when I say this is Cardfight Vanguard and One piece. It’s too bad that Konami doesn’t just make the standard yugioh products look like the rush duel cards. Would probably be able to get more newer players in
I wish turbo duels was added to yugioh game there spells cards had cost monster still unrestricted but i could slow down the game i wish i got more of time than just the 5ds ds games world champ 2009-2011
Dang bro, calling me out at the end was harsh! 😂
Man this guy really hates blackwings
6:17 That poor kid.
2:46 lab vs sky striker is truly of the duels of all time
These turns be too long for real, i'm on youtube while this guy still is doing there turn
This video only addresses Master Duel, so take this video with a grain of salt. Master Duel is inherently flawed, and I can give several examples why, but I will give two instead:
First is the Limited List, which I refuse to call a ban list because there are cards that should be limited/banned that aren't in Master Duel. As they say: Profits before Balance.
Second is the fact that Master Duel started as an OCG format with the OCG ban list from a couple formats previously. This was a very bad decision, since there is a big reason why the TCG and OCG have two separate banlists. We can't have nice things, and the first month of Master Duel was Rhongo Turbo and VFD Virutal World.
Those reasons are the major reason why Master Duel is failing as we speak, and using Master Duel as a litmus test of the state of the physical card game is inherent wrong and is a fallacy within itself.
Now, to fix Yu-Gi-Oh, there are a few steps that I defined and can be taken to make the game healthier. However, explaining them in this comment will take to long, so I will only mention the names of the steps.
Step 1: Banlist Reformation and Universal Format
Step 2: Alternative Formats
Step 3: Tournament Ready Structure Decks, Reprintings, and Boosters without much pack filler
Step 4: Tournament Reformation and other Logistics
This is all very true. I'm genuinely interested in your Step 3.
How is a Tournament Ready Structure Deck? Like, a rough idea of how it looks, and how it works.
@@joseruizdiaz9622 Step 3 would take the "3 Copies of (Structure Deck)" concept and realize it. To summarize, it would be ready to take to locals and has an opportunity to be successful at locals.
A good example of this would be the Soulburner Structure Deck. The deck would have 3 copies of the key cards like Salad Gazelle, Spinny, Balelynx, Wolf, Leo, etc. Also, it would have at 2 copies of the other Extra Deck Salads like Violet Chimera, Pyro Phoenix, Stallio, and Blaze Dragon.
Note that cards like Accesscode, Transcode, Splash Mage, Update Jammer, etc., wouldn't be a part of this deck. It would remain as pure as possible, but it has other cards that can help it be tournament ready. The other cards would either be a part of a different structure deck or in a booster.
Speaking of which, for boosters, they would be themed sets. Themes like Astral's Number Collection, 5Ds Legacy, Soldiers of the Pharaoh, I need a HERO!, Dragons of Light and Darkness, etc. These themed sets would have minimal to no pack filler, and the cards that people need to play certain decks will be more readily available. Also, these sets will artificially deflate the secondary market, allowing for more accessibility for new players or players with financial difficulty to get the cards they need.
@@rolandholmdahl797 The structure deck fix is exactly why I started to play Pokemon TCG just awhile ago. I guess that's where you also got your idea to begin with? As in PTCG there is Battle League Decks and Build & Battle decks that you just buy and start playing. And improve with other sets. And of course because of reprints, prices stay mostly at reasonable levels.
I haven’t played since 2013ish because this problem started to get out of hand
There should be a meta/system with a limit to the amount of actions that could be taken within one players turn. Not sure what that number would be, but time/normal summons is not a good enough variable, it should be a resource available to both players.
Also like 1000 more cards should be banned/limited to 1.
Always amuses me seeing YGO players talk about a lack of resources problem and how it affects the overall flow of the game, & compare it to something like MTG.
Ive only been out a few years, but all my experiences with MTG as far as any kind of competitive play goes is "turn 1, i set up a massive flood engine with 0 resources, and then i tribute half of them to kill you directly, and i save the other half to kill you directly just in case you manage to do anything about the first wave."
Its literally an apples and oranges deal from my perspective, which is why I've never declared 1 better over the other. Just different.
To me it's more fun to set up and work off plays in YGO. Or at least, it used to be.
Also, just to clarify, I'm not trying to downplay the power creep in YGO. Both are insane, I just get tired of seeing the same comparisons.
I remember when it was only really Infernities that took fifteen minute turns. What the actual fuck has happened to this game.
Also, old school Yugioh has picked up traction thanks to Cimo’s Yugioh Progression Series. Goat format has been a thing for over a decade, but formats like Edison and Tengu Plant and HAT have also been picking up popularity thanks to Cimo and Gage opening classic sets and playing with those classic cards.
I refuse to be called a yugi-boomer when my deck from 10 years ago is still kicking the ass from all the decks you mentioned in this video. (Not all wins. But I do can win more than once, them)
This is the second video that I watched that talks about a possible solution by adding a resource system to the game.
I think the only card game to got the OPT/HOPT part done RIGHT is Cardfight Vanguard. But thats mainly due to the fact that the card layout is more modern and allows for symbols/special reminder text boxes within the frame (or lack there of, due to the b-e-a-utiful idea that is full art cards). No longer did you have to waste precious space on a small card to fit the same line on literally 90% of cards since 2010. Hell, Yugioh FINALLY ripped another page out of MTG again, and replaced common game actions with a SINGLE WORD, or, KEYWORD. Example being Piercing (Trample from MTG, literally)
Very god explained and i agree the turns are to massive no wonder that are Existing "Anti-Meta" decks.
making UFO turtle format is all Konami needs if they want to bring in new players ngl
I'm more of a zombie turtle kind of guy, better targets.
During the light vs dark event played danger dark world and ran into a flower cardian user it was the longest 3 turn duel ever
Yugioh didt really need a resource system back in the day as they were the more slow paced game even compared to magic
Monster effects and spell effects not generally leading one another was a main reason
The game was fun when it had a resource system. When to summon better monster you need to have weaker monsters. Now there are just too many affects and types that you don’t need to tribute or anything like that
Bc of master duel for some reason they decided to have the card game with the longest turns ever have the longest animations too
The chubbyemu presentation got me to sub. Great video lmao
We should cut the timer in half, or like double the seconds speed each quarter. Or something i dunno, feels bad to sit then do nothing then lose.
These turns be too long this really kills the game, its like you are watching a duel instead of being in it
LMFAO a chubby emu parody, i love it, great video!
Mechanics bloat went too far. Heck MtG has the same problem if you play with literally all the cards like it does in these formats which allow the Power Nine. Even Hearthstone has this problem with FtK when you play the tavern mode that makes the health into a resource instead of the mana. Complexity and mechanics are a problem but flow is a problem too. When Yu-gi-oh first came out, the average turns for a game was between 5 and 8 and turns took anywhere from 20-60 seconds to do.
The only deck I've played that CAN take ages on a single turn is Pendymion. The other decks are just piloted by bozos who can't for the life of them remember their combos or how to reach it. What's lacking in ygo is brain power because I swear I've seen Nekroz players take 30 minutes for a turn that accomplishes basically nothing of value
and they call us CRAZY when we suggest they add a special summon limit in the MR
Imagine needing to pay life points to special summon. I really like that despia card because it creates meaningfull tradeoff like that, good design.
Masquerade? The one where your opponent pays 600 per card they want to activate? Card is toxic as hell lol. Make 2 copies of it and unless your opponent has Raigeki, Droplet, or Dark Ruler you auto win against a huge number of decks.
@@Binzob idk which is more toxic. taxing special summons, or just making a board full of negates. Either way you have an out or lose
You know there are OTKs on turn 2 in HS, right? It’s not exactly a huge argument.