Back in the 1970s, people would often ask me to knit a sweater for them. My answer was always, “The yarn will cost at least $100; I charge $20 an hour for my time, and the simplest sweater takes at least 20 hours to knit. I expect a deposit of $250.” No one ever took me up on it, which was exactly what I wanted, but I also wanted people to understand and appreciate what went into a hand knit sweater.
I make kippot. Generally, it takes me at least a solid five hours to make and block each kippah. Since I use luxury fibers (silk, camelhair, cashmere, yak, etc.), I charge at least $100 for my smallest size. I welcome custom orders and charge a little more because I drop every thing and make the order (I hate waiting and figure no one wants to wait). Invariably, clients ask for discounts on custom orders, even if they need a size double of the one they like at $100. Or they give passive aggressive comments that they are spending their child's college fund. They do give good reviews in the end, so likely I should not complain, but very few appreciate that my kippot cost that much because it takes me many hours and I'm not using RHSS. And I SHOULD charge more; I have 60+ years experience. Somehow, folks think that because this is my retirement supplemental income, I don't need a living wage.
This made me chuckle. I tell people there’s a three month wait list, they have to pay for the yarn in advance and it will cost at least 3000 kroner (about€300).
This. But nowadays there are stores like Babaa which actually charges about 400€ for a single sweater and nobody complains. They usually sell out quite fast. Hopefully the mindset is going to shift pretty soon.
Firstly: I work with intellectual property, patents and copyright. I have seen “designers” claim that they “designed ” something that is, for example, a simple cable hat that isn’t a creative work, it doesn’t need to be “designed” because we’ve been making cabled hats for centuries. Their free pattern says I’m not allowed to sell the items I make. It’s absolutely ludicrous. If I’m infringing their pattern, they are infringing the pattern of many people before them. Their ego is getting in the way thinking that they are a designer of something that’s been around for centuries. That goes for 99% of garments out there. I don’t need any pattern to make them, but their making these ludicrous claims is detrimental to artists as they are then put off and think they can’t make something or use it even though it’s actually “in the public domain.” The majority of designers are incredibly ignorant of IP law.
Well, I will say that for many new designers, even such a simple cable hat or some fair isle socks still means a mighty endeavour that takes hours upon hours. And I guess, then they kinda copy such phrases from other designers because they want to be protective of their work. I can kinda understand that. That being said, what you mention is precisely the reason why all my basic patterns & tutorials are for free. Yes, creating my plain vanilla sock tutorial and the video that goes along with it was VEEEEEEERY time consuming and expensive. Still, I learned the basis for free myself, so charging for that just feels terribly wrong.
@@AjaxAtax Send you all my love and thumbs up 👍 total agree with you, as a pensioner I must have been a naughty girl for breaking the rules for a long time. Just had a thought loads of women during war years were very bad for using the patterns handed out to knit hats gloves scarves warm socks etc etc. 🙏
I had to do some research on this a while back. Because I bought a book of crochet flower designs that I bought for some jewelry designs that I wanted to make. And in the book at the end it says the nothing that I make I can sell. So then I did research on what kind of copyright the author had gotten and all that she really had a copyright are her written patterns. I think sometimes designers do this so that other people aren't selling the same things that they make sell in their own shop. And I think it would make so much more sense if they just said that. Like with this designer as an example I would never use any of her flower patterns in jewelry the same way that she uses them in her own jewelry because we have very different design styles. But for her to claim that she has a copyright on things that I have made with my own hands is literally not even true and is a fundamental misunderstanding of copyright law.
Once I attended a knitting class where the instructor tore up someone’s pattern because it was a copy. They owned the book but copied to facilitate notes and highlights. This was way over zealous.
That’s insane! I photo copy many of the pages of my pattern book so I can mark them as I knit through them. I guess I have to be careful to not bring them in public places.
I would never write/highlight in a book, dog ear a page, etc. even if I own it. I would make a copy of a page in order to write on or highlight a page, or to avoid the possibility of losing my book. If I were taking a class and an instructor took it out of my possession and tore it up I would NEVER take another class from that person and would probably walk out of class. If I made a copy and gave it to someone else in class, which I wouldn't, but if I did and the instructor tore up both copies and lectured me about copy right infringement, I would just take my medicine.
@@angelm.bouchard3722 I do the same thing because I circle the sizes I need and if I need to flip pages back and forth , I put the pages together instead of messing up my book. If she would have snatched it out my hand I don’t know how I would have reacted on impulse but that was rude and embarrassing to do something like that in a room full of people. She could have handled that better even if she pulled her outside the room and had a conversation. Respect goes a long way .
I am a hairstylist( 55 years so far) - the only time I stopped working is during lockdown . I love styling. I love touching hair , running my fingers through , roots to tips . The same with raw wool, spun wool shop yarn.; not the same with acrylic ;; I spin and dye wool then enjoy the process of knitting . . . The connection is there : hair/ wool . Colouring hair or wool is exciting to me . Now, I am listening to your video , and staring in admiration at your hair at the same time . The colour is amazing . I would really love to congratulate your hairstylist . Truly magnificent . Thank you for your videos 💗
This reminds me of why Ed Sheeran won his case for getting inspiration from other people’ music., but not stealing anyone’s original work. A lot of modern knitwear designs are not unique enough. Also, just because you knit, doesn’t mean it NEEDS to be something you do for money! Especially in the US, people can’t seem to understand why it’s just a hobby for me at this time. Thanks for you videos. They are all absolute gold 👌
The key thing that designers are missing is that before they can tell others what to do with the items others make that look like theirs is that they have to first make sure they actually own the rights! It’s incredible how many designers think they own something when it’s actually in the public domain. In addition, garments are not copyrighted in the US in and of themselves. However, a feature that is unique enough to be copyrightable under the law is protected. You can then make the garment and Dow whatever you want with it, as long as you don’t include the component that rises to the level of an “artistic expression.” It’s very rare to see a garment with something that’s rises to a copyright under the law.
Yes, about 90% of the patterns I see about are very simple very basic tockinette jumpers with the exact same construction as many others. The design is copyrightable, but only if it's actually unique in some way (like say a unique ragland stitch detail etc)
I'm glad you brought this up. Some crafters sell goods they make. ETSY for example, sells patterns. Some sellers on the ETSY site will state in the description whether or not they allow sales of their made pattern. Some say no. Some say to mention them and give them the credit for the design.
I think it’s customary to give credit to the pattern maker , however, if I pay for a pattern, your not going to tell me I can’t sell what I made . In other words, the designer can make money but I can’t? . It’s just like buying a sewing pattern. Once I purchase the pattern it becomes mines , when I create a garment from that pattern it becomes my property to do as I please as long as I give credit to the designer. I’m all for giving credit where credit is due .
So if I make a amigurumi that is a free patten, once I make the amigurumi, can I sell it at a flea market? Or am I wasting my time? Please help me with this one. Also if I use a crochet or knit stitch and make a market bag or of it, can I sell then at a flea market?
Yeah I mean some designers are highly protective of their work. I do feel, to some degree you should respect that. But of course, the legalities look decidedly different in most countries.
@@NimbleNeedles The whole purpose of a pattern is to provide instructions for making something. It is illegal to sell a pattern someone else designed, but not to sell items made from the pattern, as I recall from a discussion about this on a sewing site some years ago.
Only if they own the copyright of the final object. Just because they wrote a pattern doesn’t mean they own copyright of the finished object. For sure they own components of the pattern (pictures and drawings, not the words of instruction), but absolutely not garments. It’s different with amiguri though. They might also own the copyright of the “sculpture” if it’s unique enough to warrant it.
Hello Norman , I found this post today purely circumstantial. Very sound information on a lot of topics. I never thought that copying a pattern from the ner could have so many pitfalls. I knit for myself and don't sell things knitted by me but I give away stuff sometimes. Also found out that you live in Austria. Funny that, I was born in Austria but left 50 years ago. I heard in your pronunciation that you are from a german speaking country but couldn't pinpoint if it was either Austria or Germany. I love your posts and get a lot of good tips , still learning at 76 years old. I am very glad to have found your channel. Good luck to you! ❤
Thanks! Norman, I appreciate you so much. Subscribed for some time now. Knitting is a universe and I am so grateful to learn about aspects of this universe that don't always directly involve yarn and needles (but am always grateful too when you teach about those!).
Well done. We deal with similar issues at work (heritage sector) and many people simply don’t want to understand copyright and ownership issues, quite apart from when it’s complicated they just switch off the second it’s mentioned. You did a really good job of both keeping complex ideas simple but also giving a good grounding in what sort of ideas are likely to be underpinning local legislation so your audience have a fighting chance of knowing what to look out for. Gold star!
Perhaps it’s because of my old age but the subject on what / how many copies etc etc why are so many people on TH-cam sharing their work/ patterns they are sharing and encouraging people to copy? Like someone mentioned a knitted hat pattern has been copied so many times with different designers why is that allowed? I have never seen any information on how many/ much you can copy from a book, also how does the resale of patterns in charity shops work? So many people around the world must have been breaking the law for such a long time how do you police it. ? 🙏
I want to commend you for giving help to people using your free patterns. You are completely within your rights to refuse to offer pattern support, and many designers do, on their freebies. You are also correct that most of those who are selling patterns, are making VERY LITTLE from their pattern sales, especially if printing and selling hard copies. The hours of development, testing, photography, and then pattern support, works out to less than minimum wages. I’m retired, and my income is quite limited, but I happily pay for patterns, to support the creative work of others. Yes, I do use free patterns, but get very annoyed with those who demand instant “customer service” from free patterns, and those who try to justify making and sharing copies of purchased patterns with their friends. If we don’t support those who are interested in designing and teaching, they will lose all incentive to do so, and we will all be losers. Be kind to one another!
actually you hit an important note there: Some of my friends publish their pattern for free precisely because they don't want to offer support. If that was a requirement, they probably wouldn't publish them at all.
Thanks for this information. I recently started teaching a beginner crochet class for kids. Someone suggested I photocopy pictures of the stitches from a book and hand it out. I didn't for the obvious reasons. I decided to give them the links to TH-camrs who have lots of beginner tutorials. Also recommended that beginner books on crochet should have pictures for each stitch or don't buy it.
If it's a free class, then it probably falls under research/education and you are free to go. If you charge for the class, it's possible saver to share links, etc.
@@carolkoussaya1543 the copyright is on the book and the pictures/text in it, not on the stitch. There's potential for an educational exception. Sttitches aren't copyrighted, but books and photos are.
I knit booties, baby cardies, baby singlets, baby blankets, circular shawls from copies i make from my grandmother's hardcopy patterns, some of which are probably 80 years old. One cost her ha'penny! Some are just in her handwriting, so i have NO idea who may have created it originally. And i sometimes make copies for friends...none of them are modern patterns, just old ones she bought as a young mother, that are no longer available in hardcopy or digital format. It seems that often the basic pattern (number to cast on, number of rows, when to inc/dec/ cast off) has remained unchanged for a hundred years. The fancy stitches (the lace patterns) she would change to suit her interest at the time, which is what i do also. I cannot see how that can be wrongful or illegal. I have seen on a site someone much younger than me claiming a circular baby shawl pattern was their creation, their IP, hilarious as i had knitted that pattern when i was about 18, and i remember my gran knitting it when i was 7...in 1973!
Tho be careful there. Just because you are unaware of a copyright doesn't mean you are allowed to copy at will. You as a consumer have to do the research. Not that I think you have anything to fear in these cases...but don't apply this concept to all aspects of life and law. That could be very dangerous 😅
@@NimbleNeedlesOh, I definately dont sell any of the patterns, and have only given copies to actual friends. Although i have sold booties I've made following that old 'base pattern' ...cast on 19sts...😁
Thank you so much for posting this! The "sharing" with friends aspect is why I do not publish my original patterns, and it has also kept me away from my LYS, a spot where affleunt hobbyists very casually steal designers' IP to "share" among their casual acquaintances, There are legitimate business reasons why the guilds of old safeguarded this type of information, reasons tied to the viability of their businesses. This is not a set of new issues, but the digital realm has certainly made theft effortless for those without a conscience or without respect for the designers they profess to admire. People, if you admire a designer's work, support their efforts rather than stealing the bread off of their table! Keep up the great work, NimbleNeedles! *hugs*
love the info shared here - as a knitter and crocheter who regularly sells what I make, I'm always appreciative of the time and effort designers put in to get the counts and measurements right - I've freehanded several designs and it always takes longer! I'm fortunate that in my local crafting/selling community, there's a wonderful variety in the styles and items that are made and there's definitely room for all - I'll even direct someone to another crafter if what they want is more the other person's style than mine 😊
Well done!! I think all beginner knitters that take a class or course should be reminded of some of these issues. Thanks for shedding some light on this important aspect of our hobby.
Thank you for using your channel for that. The knitting world needed that. Enough with that "you can't sell FOs from my patterns" thing. I've made some research about that in the last year and found some interesting info (similar to what you say) but I don't think a lot of people are aware of that. A lot of makers seem to rely on designers for legal questions and don't do further research. It doesn't make sense to tell people not to sell FOs from patterns. Can we ask the local baker to not sell any bread he's made from a baking book recipe? Can we ask artists not to sell their painting because they've learned how to paint the trees from a painting book? Can you ask the hairdresser not to reproduce any haircut from a hairdressing magazine because their clients will pay for that haircut? Can we ask yarn dyers not to sell their speckled yarn because they've learned their speckling technique in a book? I understand some designers may genuinely think they have the legal right to ask us not to sell items made with their patterns. But maybe some of them know they can't force anyone but still ask people not to do it. Maybe some of them don't want us to make a whole lot of money from their designs by making and selling let's say 100 sweaters. But is that a realistic fear? I don't see myself becoming a millionnaire anytime in my life by selling my handknit items, unless I'd sell them for a crazy high price and people would obviously not pay that much. Also maybe some would like more people to buy their pattern in order to get the FO but I'm pretty sure people who buy knit items are usually those who don't knit. Maybe people could speak with the designer and give them a bit more money for the design if they'd intend to make a profit by selling FOs from it. I dunno. But again, since there's apparently nothing illegal to selling FOs, it would have to be voluntary. Maybe I'd do it if I was in that situation. You know... just to make both parties happier. 🤷♀
actually you raise a very valid point here. The very idea that those selling those finished items would actually make a big profit is just preposterous. I mean sure, if Shein or Zara rolls in, that's a different matter. But Sue-Anne and here small Etsy shop....she probably isn't even profitable in the strictest sense of the word.
This is a really really useful video - thank you! I am not a knitter, I tend to crochet or cross-stitch but I have had incidents in the past where I needed some help understanding a pattern and have asked for advice. I think this is a video everyone who does a fibre craft should watch, even just as a moral benchmark for sharing. We also have something in the UK called the 'Angel law' or 'Angel rights' or something (colloquialism not referring to an actual written law...!), which is basically 'is the seller of a pattern allowing someone to sell their finished items?'. I didn't know that unless they put the check box acknowledgement, that it was kind of irrelevant if they said yes or no to that law! Great video :)
Norman, I never even thought about all these copyright issues. Thank you for taking the time to explain this important issue. I am an avid viewer and want to thank you for all this information. I will definitely keep you in mind in future to support your work.
Great info, Norman. The first two questions you covered are issues that I run into all the time. When family, friends or customers see knit and crochet ideas pop up in their social media feeds, they share the links with me, thinking the items would be cute for my small business. They mean well but getting them to stop has been a challenge. It's particularly hard for them to understand why I won't make items based on licensed characters when they see other makers doing so. I'm guessing they didn’t read the article where Disney or a similar large corporation hit some knitters and crocheters with licensing fees to continue selling the character likenesses. I don't have time or money for that headache!
You point on being kind, respectful and fair when making a complaint about a product, I can attest to that. The things I have accomplished with being nice, smiling and friendly is amazing. Like the time I ordered a knitting book and it arrived severely damaged, the spine was torn so badly that the page was falling out. I could see it had happened in shipping, but the shipping company just brushed off my complaint. Determined to have them held responsible I contacted the store and explained them the condition the book had arrived in and that the shipping company just brushed me off and expected to get away with. I asked the store if there was anything they could do to help me against this big international shipping company. I also send them pictures of the package and the book. To my surprise, they told me not to worry, leave it to them to deal with the issue, send the damaged book back using the prepaid shipping form in the attachment and they would send me a new copy. Next morning at 9 I had a courier on my doorstep with a new book. They had shipped it via overnight, express air mail across Europe.
It was a severe case, and in their e-mails to me they also stated that this was not how they wish their customers purchases being treated. I don't think it was the first time something like that had happened, and the next time I ordered something from them, they had changed shipping company.
Good idea to explain this. I knit allot o cowls and hats from Purl Soho. People in my senior apartment complex say so nice I should sell them. I have to explain to them these designs are copyrighted. When I had a website to sell my handmade jewelry designs and handknits, I made sure the scarves and hats were my own designs. Their was a knitter who designed a scarf. She gave permission to make it for sale. But, I decided to take the pattern and change it up to what I liked for me to wear. I’m an Artist, and like to come up with my own designs. It’s boring to do someone else’s designs to wear. I always took my own photos. You can never use other peoples photos.
Thanks! Excellent, well-researched video--thank you so much, Norman! I value well-written patterns, and I value my time. And that’s why I am willing to pay designers for their hard work. 😊
Thank you for clarifying some sticky points of copyright law. I always make a enlarged copy of any pattern I use (both free and purchased patterns) because I want to keep a pristine original and enlargement helps with my vision problems. I very much enjoy your site. After knitting for 68 years I am learning so much. Thank you so much.
From all the things i knit and crochet, and which i sell, i always give credit to the designers (if its not me, of course). Some designers, as you mentioned, don't want us to sell the product and that's fine by me.
Thank you so much for helping shed light on copyright questions as well as designers rights and how they earn their money. This is as important as chosing the stores we shop at based on their content and the content we wish to continue to purchase. I share this idea with my son when I purchase something at a store that I could purchase for less online. My financial decisions help create what I am wishing to have offered to me by a store, a designer or maker. Understanding how to make choices that support them is equally important. Thanks again!
Definitely. Here in Europe, so many people complain about old shops being replaced by big chain stores. But mostly, when you ask them "well, when did you last go into that old shop to actually buy something", the answer is..."maybe 10 years ago?". Well, go figure ;-)
Thank you for sharing this knowledge with us. I get asked why I don't sell anything I make. One is people don't want to pay for the yarn and time it takes. Second, I'm not always sure it is legal, Third, I like making the item and just give it to loved ones or for baby showers. I never thought about the free pattern idea of just giving copy away. From now on I will give my sister the link. I've not sold any patterns/ books I've bought in past. I usually have just given the pattern/book to someone.
Oh wow that always wondered about this .I have made loads but I gift them to friends n family , I made a coat before covid for a friend's 8 year old daughter. Another friend here in UK asked me for the pattern not realising she sells all her crocheted things , she actually sold a lot of the coats , now this was in the back of my head for all this time but now I know . Thanks again if a another unique content .
Another great video! I made this mistake when asking for advice on a free pattern and someone corrected me in the comments. Appreciate all the info as usual!
yeah, you see this very often and I will assume it was an honest mistake on your behalf with no evil intentions. Sadly, it often forms the perfect opportunity for those who have :( So glad, I could add some background info why this might not be something you want to do again.
In my many years of knitting, I’ve gained so much appreciation of the time and work that is involved in designing and publishing patterns. I’ve had friends ask to copy patterns I’ve purchased, and now I gently refer them to my Ravelry library, to have a look, where they can view the pattern source, and link to the many creative ways other knitters have interpreted the design. Hopefully, the many lovely variations will inspire them to purchase their own copy 😉 That said, some people are just looking to get something for free - they’re cheapskates and try to take advantage in all aspects of their lives 😂
I mean, I try to be frugal as well. But so many designers/knitters don't earn a minimal wage. So, I would say it's quite unethical to demand items for free
Thank you, Norman! That was very helpful! I especially appreciate that you talked about multiple countries and which things are likely to be the same or different.
Thank you for covering these legalities. I have been a member of several knitting and crochet groups on Facebook trying to warn people not to sell any knitted or crocheted items bearing sports logo, Disney characters or any other company logos, or resell patterns or sell things from patterns that do not give permissions. It is so frustrating people never listen or they will argue like crazy. I finally gave up and just let them do it and risk getting dragged thru the courts. I hope they take your advice. ❤
I appreciate this video and I am generally aware of coyrights. I often gift a pattern to a friend when she asks me to share my copy of a designers patterrn, that is I buy her her own copy because I love to support my favorite designers. I have favorite patterns I knitted many many times and gifted the knits, I feel quite ok with that, but it is the first time I realize it is not a good idea to share a free pattern. Thanks for making me aware of that, from now on I will share the link to the free pattern.
@@NimbleNeedles, it was a great and timely video! I wish there was more public awareness of intellectual rights. I’m just now seeing notices on some of the knitting groups I belong to online about being careful not to screenshot an entire pattern when asking for help with instructions, along with a detailed explanation, as you gave, of what is acceptable and why. As a writer and former journalist, I’m unfortunately all too familiar with plagiarism; some of my friends have had entire books lifted, names changed, and re-pubbed, and fighting it is an absolute nightmare, even for best-selling authors, especially, same as with patterns, when it’s in a digital format. That really changed the game for all of us. I had my daughter email the photographer of a photo she wanted to use in a fourth-grade school PowerPoint research project, asking for permission to use his photo, and offering to send him a copy of the PP show. He wrote her a beautiful email thanking her for her awareness of intellectual property, granting her permission to use it, and saying he’d be thrilled to see her work, and then another encouraging note after he received her PP email. Apparently it was the first time anyone had bothered to write him for permission! She had an excellent understanding of the concept at age nine. I only wish adults had a similar respect for it!
Thank you for this great video. It's useful info that everyone should have. I think creators generally get a raw deal as the majority of people don't seem to respect copyright rights.
Thank you for sharing this video with us. It is very informative and I learned something new. I never share videos or pdfs of patterns. I teach my niece how to do a pattern without a video or sharing pdfs. Love your videos. Thank you!
I will often take a photo of a book pattern if i want to work on the project when I'm not at home. But I never share them, just reference them on my phone Norman, thank you for this video. Raised some issues that had never occurred to me, but now I'll be much more aware!
I’d like to think the vast majority of us in the knitting world are honest and hold good moral values. Supporting local yarn stores, supporting independent knitters, and following Norman’s advice regarding sharing patterns or fragments of patterns. Put yourself in the shoes of the designer. Use your common sense and if you are unsure if what you are about to do is allowed then email the designer. There are usually contact details on every design these days!
Timely topic. I chronicle my knitting activity on Instagram and Facebook because it’s easier than making a scrapbook about them. A friend really liked one of the projects I made and asked if she could buy it or if I could make it for her and she’d pay for it. I need to think twice about charging her if I were to oblige to her request. She wanted the item so she could give it as a gift for another friend. I paid for the pattern to be sure, and the designer didn’t specifically state that the finished product from the pattern cannot be sold.
I like very much the interesting information I would have never asked to receive, and I can tell that you are very knowledgeable of a whole area of knitting at home and as a business. Thanks a lot. I am only beginning knitting and will keep in mind what you have said.
Thanks for sharing this. I'm still a relatively new knitter, and these were topics I hadn't even thought about. I have several friends whose livelihoods either currently or used to depend on creative endeavors, so I've definitely heard the negative impacts of sharing creative works without crediting the artist. This video helped me conceptualize knitting (and the hard work from pattern writers) more as a creative art instead of just a hobby for me.
Thank you for this info - it gives a good guide of what one COULD encounter and what to possibly be aware of when embarking on copying, selling or passing on to friends, family etc. Very useful food for thought.👍
Thank you. Very informative and updated Info. I normally buy patterns to make items for me and make gifts to my family and friends. I love my craft hobby, but I don’t have the time for selling what I made (firstly not a fast knitter or crocheter)❤
@@NimbleNeedles So true! I’ve had people offer to pay me to knit them something I’ve made. I tell them they couldn’t afford to pay me. I knit for people I love - as long as I know they appreciate and will take proper care of knitted gifts. If I find out a lovely shawl is being used as a dog blanket…it’s the last hand knit item they will receive from me 😂
Thank you. Too many designers think hiding 'don't sell finished items' is valid. I don't want to sell finished items designers don't want sold, and if it is in the listing before purchase I think it should be honored. I personally choose to honor it by not purchasing those patterns. If it's hidden, that designer removed my ability to informed consent and tricked my into a situation I would not have agreed to if I had all of the data up front. I'm pretty sure that's why they hide it, they know people will not buy it if they include that stipulation and that is lying and stealing (particularly when it cannot be returned). If it's hidden I want to go out of my way to sell a finished item even if I didn't plan to originally.
I often alter patterns for better fit or change the stitch pattern. How much alteration is required before it becomes a new pattern/design? People fall within general size ranges. Stitch patterns have been knitted for generations. Thus it is likely that a pattern by a current "designer" has been created before, although in a different yarn and colour way. Considering knitting and crochet are worldwide crafts, it is extremely unlikely anyone is going to know where the pattern came from, unless the crafter splashes it all over social media.
Thank you, Norman, I've wondered about these issues...I was given two books by Cat Bordhi, and looked her up on TH-cam. She designed a new heal pattern, and teaches it online. The next time I searched for heals, because Cat got me addicted to experimenting, and found another woman teaching Cat's heal, without even giving her credit! It made me a bit angry, because it just isn't fair. Honestly though, I don't think I knit well enough to sell anything, it's mostly relaxing and the only way I can afford well made clothing! But you never know what's coming, so it's all good to know! Be well, Norman! You're channel is the best thing that covid inspired! 😸
@@lauriesmith7517 yes! I hadn't had my coffee yet, thanks! Also, the word heal has been a big much used word for me since I was in a bicycle accident two years ago and three months on pain pills did a number on my digestive tract! Be well!
Thank you very much for this video!! I am a (very) amateur, hobby knitter, so I admit I never even knew that issues pertaining to pattern rights etc were a thing! I suppose I should have realized that that would exist, as any artist or inventor would also be in that catagory! Thank you, I really appreciate the video!
Your glove pattern is awesome and I love all the tips. I wanted to thank you for sharing this so generously. However it’s a little beyond my experience. I did download it and as my skills improve I hope to try it.
Thank you, I've been trying to tell family and friends who have been telling me to sell a lot of the stuff I make, but I have to look at the legal side of things, just like anything else. They say nothing is going to happen, everyone sells knitted things and makes money off of them. BUT I know there's more to this then just the technique of how knitting is done and there are too many patterns that are the same, even if I made that pattern up myself. I've looked at the laws and things like that where I live and it's overwhelming and a lot, so for now this is my hobby and I'm happy with that ☺️ 💕💕💕.
My brother keeps telling me to sell my stuff but the amount I would have to crochet/knit to make that profitable is far more than my current output. Which is few and far between.
@@Fickji your brother is not alone, as there are many others who think everyone should monetize their hobbies. If I made my knitting hobby into a job, I'd have to find another hobby! Of course, I'd starve first.😂
@elsieb3176 that part, they don't know that when you do something as a hobby and then make it a business (unless that's what you want to do and not get tired of it) it turns unpleasant after awhile. Then you have to find something else to do that doesn't have to do with your business.
There definitely is more to it. Just because your knitting looks good, doesn't mean it's possible and/or viable 😓 Tho, there certainly are some who make it happen!
Thank you for your insight, research, and good information. It is straightforward in some areas and muddy in others simply because of so many variables. If. If, if. Helpful.
Great information Norman. I agree that many people would like to borrow patterns. It’s a simple thing to refer them to the place you bought or obtained the pattern from. I had to look up ‘fungible’ Norman. It’s a long time since I had occasion to use that word!
Thank you thank you for this very excellent explanation of why you should not share patterns. I particularly like the message that, once shared, the pattern is no longer accessible to you. You have given away the copy you bought. My particular pet peeve (I’m an historical researcher) is unsourced information. A fact is set forth but where did it come from? Sometimes after you track it down, it turns out that there was a typo in the original that completely changes the meaning. ALWAYS cite your sources. After you email a pattern, what happens to it? It can be emailed to more people. It can be taken by the second set of people and forwarded on - until thousands of copies are floating around, the source is lost or forgotten (NO hits on their website) and perhaps original creation begins to be disputed! It’s just a bad bad idea, whether you’re on a small private/personal scale or a large commercial scale. It starts out at bad manners and disintegrates into theft. I’m saving the link to this video and will have it handy when I see the question raised. Thank you thank you.
I have a coworker who is considering taking up knitting or crocheting, I made a play list of TH-cam videos for her. That way if she checks them out the person will get a click and hopefully a thumbs up.
I was just wondering why I was able to find a (free) TH-cam tutorial for making a specific granny square when the pattern was for sale on revelry for $5. And this video prompted me to see if this granny square had been around for decades as the name suggests “Retro Daisy granny square”. I know I recognized this square from somewhere! A tiktoker showing off their finished project using these squares gave credit to this paid pattern designer on revelry. Oh but the tutorials TH-cam did not! So, in this case what does one do?
Instructions cannot be copyrighted. They only can be patented or trademarked. If that is not the case, you are probably free to do a tutorial. However, in the times of social media, this might still create a backlash. I've seen it quite a lot lately - especially on TikTok. It's a bit ironic because most of the crochet designs I see with these super chunky or plush yarn are so easy it takes like 5 brain cells and no effort to design.
Another very interesting video, so very informative. We don't always have these considerations around crafts, and this could lead to many a mistake. Thank you, Norman! 😊
As a new knitter I would never go into a store buy my yarn and then pick up the same amount for a friend without paying? It would never happen and we would never think of doing this. So please respect those who work hard to bring us patterns and have respect for them. Pay for them!
Thanks for this I'm not a teacher as some in the comments I'm just love knitting, I don't use free patterns unless it's a promotion from a shop, or from a magazine i bought i just feel each pattern I buy is like a gift to me, I have patterns from the 1970s when I started knitting, I still use them in modern yarns as well as new patterns I buy ,I knit for family and friends and give as gifts even if they ask for something sometimes putting info of patterns and yarn , others have learned to knit by method,this was not intended but is a happy they buy their own patterns now and enjoy knitting,🌄
just one note here: There is nothing wrong with downloading a free pattern. There are many reasons why a designer may do that but almost all do it because they believe they will benefit more from it as opposed to a paid pattern. Still, your willingness to support designers is more than appreciated, Chris!
also another thing....selling finished projects of established characters like Mikey Mouse is a huge gray area. did the designer of that pattern get permission from the owner (in the case of Mickey Mouse would be the Disney Corperation) to use that character....same thing goes for trademarks and logs....like you buy a pattern or design a pattern yourself of logo of a baseball team (like the New York Mets) or a football team (like the New Orleans Saints).....same as a character, you must get permission from the owner of that trademark or logo
This is NOT a gray area!!! The Disney Corporation has sent legal letters to quilt makers and others for copyright infringement, especially when they enter their works in fairground type competitions or other public displays. Just because you can make a copy of an image like Mickey or Minnie Mouse, Star Wars characters, be aware that you are infringing copyright. I would assume that a knit or crochet copy of a character could receive the same attention.
Well, it's not really a Grey area. For private uses, you are probably allowed to knit whatever you want. But as soon as things get commercial or public, things look decidedly different. The Grey area starts if you create art based on their characters (as opposed to copying existing images or parts thereof).
I play video games and fanart is a big part of those communities. The game I play the most is World of Warcraft and Blizzard has a very liberal fanart approach, which they explicitly state. Disney? Not so much. But the point is, since fanart is such a big part of some communities, there are companies that heavily encourage it, so it is worth a look at what the particular company says. :)
This was very interesting, although I have never encountered any of these specific situations. Occasionally I see a project made from an out of print pattern and wondered if it was possible to buy a copy from another knitter. Not clear on this if the pattern is digital, rather than in a book they own. If anyone here has experience doing this I would like your input (USA).
That's an interesting topic. Typically the owner holds the right to sell or cease selling. If the company doesn't exist anymore, and there is no obvious heir/new owner..hm. maybe you can. I dunno how and when that would expire.
I wish more people considered these issues. Although I think videos like the issue more top of mind. Thank you for talking about it. I'm curious of your opinion on a rather large subtopic. If you were to use a pattern that featured the image of another companies intellectual property could you get yourself in trouble. Like if you put Disney characters into a color work project then tried to sell that finished item.
Difficult and very complicated topic with many different layers. These images/characters are typically trademarked. But if you add comentary/satire and/or you surpass the threshold of originality, you might still get away with it. Might, definitely a case by case thing
How many people would think about the legality of sharing a pattern ? Luckily I am useless with techy stuff so I wouldn't think about passing patterns on digitally ! Thanks for bringing this to our attention. God bless. Sandi UK.
This is very helpful. I had recently started to consider selling some of my knitting, but I noticed on one of my patterns that it said not to sell items made from the pattern, so I thought I would only sell ones that didn't say that in the copyright section and give them credit, but I was so nervous about getting in trouble anyways.
I just paid 10 bucks for a pattern from a Dutch designer that was so poorly translated I to e glish I'd like to simply send it right back to her. I've delete so i never have to see it again in my files. The designer, sic, made me feel dumb, yay and was very unhelpful. I don't mind paying but please, get it right. I don't need stress, knitting is supposed to be pleasurable. Ciao...
I've wondered about this. On sites like Etsy and Ravelry, designers produce a pattern, then these sites begin to overflow with "new" patterns that are exactly the same.
A similar issue happens with sheet music of contemporary music. I used to find copyright a huge hassle and paying fees not feasible as a (at that time) poor student. But then I befriended someone who makes choir arrangements professionally and saw how much work those arrangements actually take, just like knitting patterns. Having another choir sell tickets and perform a pirated arrangement, quickly starts feeling really wrong when the arranger struggles for money. That would be equivalent to selling knitted items made from a copied pattern, even if it is for charity. So with that in mind I now try to be correct when it comes to knitting patterns, too (even if I don't sell the items because I wish I could knit that fast ;-)) Anyway, do you know how it works with libraries? Is it allowed to make a copy of a pattern from a library book? It should be allowed to borrow the book and knit from it, I would think, but it doesn't pay the designer directly.
Definitely ask the librarian, although I would think there shouldn’t be an issue with one pattern, because library books *generally* are bound differently than mass market-sold books (and cost quite a bit more than one sold to individuals), because they have to hold up to much more handling than a book that isn’t in circulation. I spent a decade on the board of a Friends of the Library group, explaining (a couple hundred times a year!) that books donated to the library didn’t go into circulation, but were sold by us at book sales to fund library needs. The librarians showed me the difference in the bindings; they’re far sturdier. In that case, the designer has been paid on the front end through the sale of the book. You’d need to check the copyright page of the particular book. I haven’t looked at newer ones, but some of the older ones had fair use language in them. I bought a couple of old stitch encyclopedias at one of the library sales. They’re only good for ideas for me; they’re made for right/wrong side, and I knit in the round, but when I was first learning how to knit lace and cables years ago, they were great for inspiration and practice swatches.
I was watching a podcast with a famous designer answering questions...she was asked if someone could sell items made from her patterns....answer: absolutely not!!!
@@NimbleNeedles I'm glad you know who I was talking about.... I was very taken aback at the comment. I'm less likely to purchase a pattern because of it.
Meanwhile, Etsy is so full of people selling PDF copies of vintage patterns of all kinds, that it can be difficult to even find physical patterns and books to buy.
Fascinating topic. As a sewer, I am guilty of taking apart old clothing to make a pattern, so that I can remake the item in new fabric. I guess I’m a criminal?
haha..I don't think you are. 1) you are not selling the pattern 2) even if you were, any registered copyright probably has already expired (depending on where you are located).
thanks for making clear an issue that has always seemed very fuzzy. I would also love to hear about your experiences as a designer and whether you've faced any issues with publishing a design that someone else thinks is too similar to their design
Thanks for the information on legal stuff. I wasn’t aware of some things and will be checking it out (here in Ontario, Canada). Funny story. One day my husband was driving me and my girlfriend to the wool shop and on the way we were talking. We kept saying Norman this and Norman that… Finally my husband said, “Who’s Norman?” It was almost like my girlfriend and I had this secret boyfriend…lol… I think he was relieved when we told him who you are.
Supposing I type out a pattern I have used from memory? And supposing I have altered something, say I put a different kind of collar on and knitted it without seams?
Wow Norman! You have been a busy man; all that research! Thank you for this very insightful post. Copywriting is certainly quite a quagmire. I do have a question for you: I have been caught forgetting I had bought a pattern only to find out that I had already bought it some time ago. I have then “gifted” my extra copy of said pattern to a like-minded knitter friend of mine. Am I in breach of the copyright act? I felt that I owned the pattern since I had bought it. What are your thoughts? I must say that every time I wear or gift an article I have knitted, I always give the origin or the name of the pattern writer. I do not give a copy of it to admirers! ❣️🌹
well, I guess this kind of depends if it's print or digital. If it's digitial, you probably kinda still are because the spare copy will still remain in your possession as you pass it along (for that very reason ravelry has a "gift this pattern" option). Remember, there are actually quite some reasons why someone would buy two copies of something. Say, a collector who wants to use one item and keep the one pristine for their collection. Or maybe you want to write on the margins in one book/use it for study, and the other one is placed in the pretty shelf. Or you are worried that it might break over time and you like a spare, etc. So, a court would not actually be interested if you bought 1 or 20. The fact would remain, that through sending an email or whatever you created digital copies of something and you were probably not allowed to do so. In reality, I am highly doubtful that someone would actually take you to court. After all, your intentions were good. At least, I certainly wouldn't :)
I do, too. I have people ask to buy my sock patterns, and patterns for a couple of shoulder bags over the years. Alas, I am bone lazy. I’ve never written a single one down. 😂 I’ve charted a couple of lace patterns out, but mostly just start at the toe, fit as I go, and finesse the chart to fit. I could probably go back and make a pattern for my size from the finished sock, but…again, too lazy to do other sizes. Same with sewing.
![The secrets to getting gauge and knitting perfect swatches [5 common mistakes]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ntK-ICmol2E/mqdefault.jpg)
![The secrets to getting gauge and knitting perfect swatches [5 common mistakes]](/img/tr.png)
Back in the 1970s, people would often ask me to knit a sweater for them. My answer was always, “The yarn will cost at least $100; I charge $20 an hour for my time, and the simplest sweater takes at least 20 hours to knit. I expect a deposit of $250.” No one ever took me up on it, which was exactly what I wanted, but I also wanted people to understand and appreciate what went into a hand knit sweater.
I make kippot. Generally, it takes me at least a solid five hours to make and block each kippah. Since I use luxury fibers (silk, camelhair, cashmere, yak, etc.), I charge at least $100 for my smallest size. I welcome custom orders and charge a little more because I drop every thing and make the order (I hate waiting and figure no one wants to wait). Invariably, clients ask for discounts on custom orders, even if they need a size double of the one they like at $100. Or they give passive aggressive comments that they are spending their child's college fund.
They do give good reviews in the end, so likely I should not complain, but very few appreciate that my kippot cost that much because it takes me many hours and I'm not using RHSS.
And I SHOULD charge more; I have 60+ years experience. Somehow, folks think that because this is my retirement supplemental income, I don't need a living wage.
Brilliant 😀
This made me chuckle. I tell people there’s a three month wait list, they have to pay for the yarn in advance and it will cost at least 3000 kroner (about€300).
This. But nowadays there are stores like Babaa which actually charges about 400€ for a single sweater and nobody complains. They usually sell out quite fast. Hopefully the mindset is going to shift pretty soon.
True! Always asked to knit socks. At eight hours per sock plus v cost of yarn, price will start at $160! No one has ever taken me up on that, either!
Firstly: I work with intellectual property, patents and copyright. I have seen “designers” claim that they “designed ” something that is, for example, a simple cable hat that isn’t a creative work, it doesn’t need to be “designed” because we’ve been making cabled hats for centuries. Their free pattern says I’m not allowed to sell the items I make. It’s absolutely ludicrous. If I’m infringing their pattern, they are infringing the pattern of many people before them. Their ego is getting in the way thinking that they are a designer of something that’s been around for centuries. That goes for 99% of garments out there. I don’t need any pattern to make them, but their making these ludicrous claims is detrimental to artists as they are then put off and think they can’t make something or use it even though it’s actually “in the public domain.” The majority of designers are incredibly ignorant of IP law.
Well said. 🙏
Well, I will say that for many new designers, even such a simple cable hat or some fair isle socks still means a mighty endeavour that takes hours upon hours. And I guess, then they kinda copy such phrases from other designers because they want to be protective of their work. I can kinda understand that.
That being said, what you mention is precisely the reason why all my basic patterns & tutorials are for free. Yes, creating my plain vanilla sock tutorial and the video that goes along with it was VEEEEEEERY time consuming and expensive. Still, I learned the basis for free myself, so charging for that just feels terribly wrong.
@@AjaxAtax Send you all my love and thumbs up 👍 total agree with you, as a pensioner I must have been a naughty girl for breaking the rules for a long time. Just had a thought loads of women during war years were very bad for using the patterns handed out to knit hats gloves scarves warm socks etc etc. 🙏
Absolutely. Stuff like this comes from ignorance AND piggery.
You are very kind and your work is very much appreciated!
I had to do some research on this a while back. Because I bought a book of crochet flower designs that I bought for some jewelry designs that I wanted to make. And in the book at the end it says the nothing that I make I can sell. So then I did research on what kind of copyright the author had gotten and all that she really had a copyright are her written patterns. I think sometimes designers do this so that other people aren't selling the same things that they make sell in their own shop. And I think it would make so much more sense if they just said that. Like with this designer as an example I would never use any of her flower patterns in jewelry the same way that she uses them in her own jewelry because we have very different design styles. But for her to claim that she has a copyright on things that I have made with my own hands is literally not even true and is a fundamental misunderstanding of copyright law.
Once I attended a knitting class where the instructor tore up someone’s pattern because it was a copy. They owned the book but copied to facilitate notes and highlights. This was way over zealous.
Wow! I don’t even know how to react to this story but it’s not like the person was giving it away it was for their own personal use .
That’s insane! I photo copy many of the pages of my pattern book so I can mark them as I knit through them. I guess I have to be careful to not bring them in public places.
I would never write/highlight in a book, dog ear a page, etc. even if I own it. I would make a copy of a page in order to write on or highlight a page, or to avoid the possibility of losing my book. If I were taking a class and an instructor took it out of my possession and tore it up I would NEVER take another class from that person and would probably walk out of class.
If I made a copy and gave it to someone else in class, which I wouldn't, but if I did and the instructor tore up both copies and lectured me about copy right infringement, I would just take my medicine.
Yes. Really. My sister was a librarian so we follow copyright. This was so over the top and we were stunned.
@@angelm.bouchard3722 I do the same thing because I circle the sizes I need and if I need to flip pages back and forth , I put the pages together instead of messing up my book.
If she would have snatched it out my hand I don’t know how I would have reacted on impulse but that was rude and embarrassing to do something like that in a room full of people. She could have handled that better even if she pulled her outside the room and had a conversation. Respect goes a long way .
I am a hairstylist( 55 years so far) - the only time I stopped working is during lockdown . I love styling. I love touching hair , running my fingers through , roots to tips . The same with raw wool, spun wool shop yarn.; not the same with acrylic ;;
I spin and dye wool then enjoy the process of knitting . . . The connection is there : hair/ wool . Colouring hair or wool is exciting to me .
Now, I am listening to your video , and staring in admiration at your hair at the same time . The colour is amazing . I would really love to congratulate your hairstylist . Truly magnificent . Thank you for your videos 💗
I'll make sure to pass it along! 🥰
Wow! I know you spent a huge amount of time researching this issue even as an overview. Good job!
Glad you appreciate my effort
This reminds me of why Ed Sheeran won his case for getting inspiration from other people’ music., but not stealing anyone’s original work. A lot of modern knitwear designs are not unique enough. Also, just because you knit, doesn’t mean it NEEDS to be something you do for money! Especially in the US, people can’t seem to understand why it’s just a hobby for me at this time.
Thanks for you videos. They are all absolute gold 👌
The key thing that designers are missing is that before they can tell others what to do with the items others make that look like theirs is that they have to first make sure they actually own the rights! It’s incredible how many designers think they own something when it’s actually in the public domain. In addition, garments are not copyrighted in the US in and of themselves. However, a feature that is unique enough to be copyrightable under the law is protected. You can then make the garment and Dow whatever you want with it, as long as you don’t include the component that rises to the level of an “artistic expression.” It’s very rare to see a garment with something that’s rises to a copyright under the law.
You raise a valid point. Not only customers/knitters need to make their due diligence...but also designers
Yes, about 90% of the patterns I see about are very simple very basic tockinette jumpers with the exact same construction as many others. The design is copyrightable, but only if it's actually unique in some way (like say a unique ragland stitch detail etc)
I'm glad you brought this up. Some crafters sell goods they make. ETSY for example, sells patterns. Some sellers on the ETSY site will state in the description whether or not they allow sales of their made pattern. Some say no. Some say to mention them and give them the credit for the design.
I think it’s customary to give credit to the pattern maker , however, if I pay for a pattern, your not going to tell me I can’t sell what I made . In other words, the designer can make money but I can’t? . It’s just like buying a sewing pattern. Once I purchase the pattern it becomes mines , when I create a garment from that pattern it becomes my property to do as I please as long as I give credit to the designer.
I’m all for giving credit where credit is due .
So if I make a amigurumi that is a free patten, once I make the amigurumi, can I sell it at a flea market? Or am I wasting my time? Please help me with this one. Also if I use a crochet or knit stitch and make a market bag or of it, can I sell then at a flea market?
Yeah I mean some designers are highly protective of their work. I do feel, to some degree you should respect that. But of course, the legalities look decidedly different in most countries.
@@NimbleNeedles The whole purpose of a pattern is to provide instructions for making something. It is illegal to sell a pattern someone else designed, but not to sell items made from the pattern, as I recall from a discussion about this on a sewing site some years ago.
Only if they own the copyright of the final object. Just because they wrote a pattern doesn’t mean they own copyright of the finished object. For sure they own components of the pattern (pictures and drawings, not the words of instruction), but absolutely not garments. It’s different with amiguri though. They might also own the copyright of the “sculpture” if it’s unique enough to warrant it.
Hello Norman , I found this post today purely circumstantial. Very sound information on a lot of topics. I never thought that copying a pattern from the ner could have so many pitfalls. I knit for myself and don't sell things knitted by me but I give away stuff sometimes. Also found out that you live in Austria. Funny that, I was born in Austria but left 50 years ago. I heard in your pronunciation that you are from a german speaking country but couldn't pinpoint if it was either Austria or Germany. I love your posts and get a lot of good tips , still learning at 76 years old. I am very glad to have found your channel. Good luck to you! ❤
Thanks! Norman, I appreciate you so much. Subscribed for some time now. Knitting is a universe and I am so grateful to learn about aspects of this universe that don't always directly involve yarn and needles (but am always grateful too when you teach about those!).
Oh wow! Thank you for supporting my work so generously!
Well done. We deal with similar issues at work (heritage sector) and many people simply don’t want to understand copyright and ownership issues, quite apart from when it’s complicated they just switch off the second it’s mentioned. You did a really good job of both keeping complex ideas simple but also giving a good grounding in what sort of ideas are likely to be underpinning local legislation so your audience have a fighting chance of knowing what to look out for. Gold star!
Perhaps it’s because of my old age but the subject on what / how many copies etc etc why are so many people on TH-cam sharing their work/ patterns they are sharing and encouraging people to copy? Like someone mentioned a knitted hat pattern has been copied so many times with different designers why is that allowed? I have never seen any information on how many/ much you can copy from a book, also how does the resale of patterns in charity shops work? So many people around the world must have been breaking the law for such a long time how do you police it. ? 🙏
I want to commend you for giving help to people using your free patterns. You are completely within your rights to refuse to offer pattern support, and many designers do, on their freebies. You are also correct that most of those who are selling patterns, are making VERY LITTLE from their pattern sales, especially if printing and selling hard copies. The hours of development, testing, photography, and then pattern support, works out to less than minimum wages.
I’m retired, and my income is quite limited, but I happily pay for patterns, to support the creative work of others. Yes, I do use free patterns, but get very annoyed with those who demand instant “customer service” from free patterns, and those who try to justify making and sharing copies of purchased patterns with their friends. If we don’t support those who are interested in designing and teaching, they will lose all incentive to do so, and we will all be losers. Be kind to one another!
actually you hit an important note there:
Some of my friends publish their pattern for free precisely because they don't want to offer support. If that was a requirement, they probably wouldn't publish them at all.
Thanks for this information.
I recently started teaching a beginner crochet class for kids. Someone suggested I photocopy pictures of the stitches from a book and hand it out. I didn't for the obvious reasons. I decided to give them the links to TH-camrs who have lots of beginner tutorials. Also recommended that beginner books on crochet should have pictures for each stitch or don't buy it.
I think it’s more the design that is copyrighted not the stitch itself. You can also take your own pictures of the stitches you make and use those
If it's a free class, then it probably falls under research/education and you are free to go. If you charge for the class, it's possible saver to share links, etc.
@@carolkoussaya1543 the copyright is on the book and the pictures/text in it, not on the stitch. There's potential for an educational exception. Sttitches aren't copyrighted, but books and photos are.
I knit booties, baby cardies, baby singlets, baby blankets, circular shawls from copies i make from my grandmother's hardcopy patterns, some of which are probably 80 years old. One cost her ha'penny! Some are just in her handwriting, so i have NO idea who may have created it originally.
And i sometimes make copies for friends...none of them are modern patterns, just old ones she bought as a young mother, that are no longer available in hardcopy or digital format.
It seems that often the basic pattern (number to cast on, number of rows, when to inc/dec/ cast off) has remained unchanged for a hundred years. The fancy stitches (the lace patterns) she would change to suit her interest at the time, which is what i do also.
I cannot see how that can be wrongful or illegal.
I have seen on a site someone much younger than me claiming a circular baby shawl pattern was their creation, their IP, hilarious as i had knitted that pattern when i was about 18, and i remember my gran knitting it when i was 7...in 1973!
Tho be careful there. Just because you are unaware of a copyright doesn't mean you are allowed to copy at will. You as a consumer have to do the research.
Not that I think you have anything to fear in these cases...but don't apply this concept to all aspects of life and law. That could be very dangerous 😅
@@NimbleNeedlesOh, I definately dont sell any of the patterns, and have only given copies to actual friends. Although i have sold booties I've made following that old 'base pattern' ...cast on 19sts...😁
Thank you so much for posting this!
The "sharing" with friends aspect is why I do not publish my original patterns, and it has also kept me away from my LYS, a spot where affleunt hobbyists very casually steal designers' IP to "share" among their casual acquaintances, There are legitimate business reasons why the guilds of old safeguarded this type of information, reasons tied to the viability of their businesses. This is not a set of new issues, but the digital realm has certainly made theft effortless for those without a conscience or without respect for the designers they profess to admire. People, if you admire a designer's work, support their efforts rather than stealing the bread off of their table!
Keep up the great work, NimbleNeedles! *hugs*
love the info shared here - as a knitter and crocheter who regularly sells what I make, I'm always appreciative of the time and effort designers put in to get the counts and measurements right - I've freehanded several designs and it always takes longer!
I'm fortunate that in my local crafting/selling community, there's a wonderful variety in the styles and items that are made and there's definitely room for all - I'll even direct someone to another crafter if what they want is more the other person's style than mine 😊
Well done!! I think all beginner knitters that take a class or course should be reminded of some of these issues. Thanks for shedding some light on this important aspect of our hobby.
Thank you for using your channel for that. The knitting world needed that.
Enough with that "you can't sell FOs from my patterns" thing. I've made some research about that in the last year and found some interesting info (similar to what you say) but I don't think a lot of people are aware of that. A lot of makers seem to rely on designers for legal questions and don't do further research.
It doesn't make sense to tell people not to sell FOs from patterns.
Can we ask the local baker to not sell any bread he's made from a baking book recipe? Can we ask artists not to sell their painting because they've learned how to paint the trees from a painting book? Can you ask the hairdresser not to reproduce any haircut from a hairdressing magazine because their clients will pay for that haircut? Can we ask yarn dyers not to sell their speckled yarn because they've learned their speckling technique in a book?
I understand some designers may genuinely think they have the legal right to ask us not to sell items made with their patterns. But maybe some of them know they can't force anyone but still ask people not to do it. Maybe some of them don't want us to make a whole lot of money from their designs by making and selling let's say 100 sweaters. But is that a realistic fear? I don't see myself becoming a millionnaire anytime in my life by selling my handknit items, unless I'd sell them for a crazy high price and people would obviously not pay that much. Also maybe some would like more people to buy their pattern in order to get the FO but I'm pretty sure people who buy knit items are usually those who don't knit.
Maybe people could speak with the designer and give them a bit more money for the design if they'd intend to make a profit by selling FOs from it. I dunno. But again, since there's apparently nothing illegal to selling FOs, it would have to be voluntary. Maybe I'd do it if I was in that situation. You know... just to make both parties happier. 🤷♀
actually you raise a very valid point here. The very idea that those selling those finished items would actually make a big profit is just preposterous. I mean sure, if Shein or Zara rolls in, that's a different matter. But Sue-Anne and here small Etsy shop....she probably isn't even profitable in the strictest sense of the word.
Thank you for doing the research and making the current state of copyrights as clear as it can be.
Heh..well, let's say clearER 🤣
This is a really really useful video - thank you! I am not a knitter, I tend to crochet or cross-stitch but I have had incidents in the past where I needed some help understanding a pattern and have asked for advice. I think this is a video everyone who does a fibre craft should watch, even just as a moral benchmark for sharing.
We also have something in the UK called the 'Angel law' or 'Angel rights' or something (colloquialism not referring to an actual written law...!), which is basically 'is the seller of a pattern allowing someone to sell their finished items?'. I didn't know that unless they put the check box acknowledgement, that it was kind of irrelevant if they said yes or no to that law!
Great video :)
Norman, I never even thought about all these copyright issues. Thank you for taking the time to explain this important issue. I am an avid viewer and want to thank you for all this information. I will definitely keep you in mind in future to support your work.
Great info, Norman. The first two questions you covered are issues that I run into all the time. When family, friends or customers see knit and crochet ideas pop up in their social media feeds, they share the links with me, thinking the items would be cute for my small business. They mean well but getting them to stop has been a challenge.
It's particularly hard for them to understand why I won't make items based on licensed characters when they see other makers doing so. I'm guessing they didn’t read the article where Disney or a similar large corporation hit some knitters and crocheters with licensing fees to continue selling the character likenesses. I don't have time or money for that headache!
You point on being kind, respectful and fair when making a complaint about a product, I can attest to that.
The things I have accomplished with being nice, smiling and friendly is amazing.
Like the time I ordered a knitting book and it arrived severely damaged, the spine was torn so badly that the page was falling out. I could see it had happened in shipping, but the shipping company just brushed off my complaint. Determined to have them held responsible I contacted the store and explained them the condition the book had arrived in and that the shipping company just brushed me off and expected to get away with. I asked the store if there was anything they could do to help me against this big international shipping company. I also send them pictures of the package and the book.
To my surprise, they told me not to worry, leave it to them to deal with the issue, send the damaged book back using the prepaid shipping form in the attachment and they would send me a new copy.
Next morning at 9 I had a courier on my doorstep with a new book. They had shipped it via overnight, express air mail across Europe.
oh wow! that's what I call dedicated customer service
It was a severe case, and in their e-mails to me they also stated that this was not how they wish their customers purchases being treated. I don't think it was the first time something like that had happened, and the next time I ordered something from them, they had changed shipping company.
Good idea to explain this. I knit allot o cowls and hats from Purl Soho. People in my senior apartment complex say so nice I should sell them. I have to explain to them these designs are copyrighted. When I had a website to sell my handmade jewelry designs and handknits, I made sure the scarves and hats were my own designs. Their was a knitter who designed a scarf. She gave permission to make it for sale. But, I decided to take the pattern and change it up to what I liked for me to wear. I’m an Artist, and like to come up with my own designs. It’s boring to do someone else’s designs to wear. I always took my own photos. You can never use other peoples photos.
Thanks! Excellent, well-researched video--thank you so much, Norman! I value well-written patterns, and I value my time. And that’s why I am willing to pay designers for their hard work. 😊
Thank you so much for supporting my work ❤️❤️
Thank you for clarifying some sticky points of copyright law. I always make a enlarged copy of any pattern I use (both free and purchased patterns) because I want to keep a pristine original and enlargement helps with my vision problems.
I very much enjoy your site. After knitting for 68 years I am learning so much.
Thank you so much.
You've helped me so much with my knitting. Thank you! Vielen Dank!
Oh wow. Thank you Holly for this more than generous contribution. 🥰🥰🥰 glad I can be part of your knitting journey!
From all the things i knit and crochet, and which i sell, i always give credit to the designers (if its not me, of course).
Some designers, as you mentioned, don't want us to sell the product and that's fine by me.
Thank you so much for helping shed light on copyright questions as well as designers rights and how they earn their money. This is as important as chosing the stores we shop at based on their content and the content we wish to continue to purchase. I share this idea with my son when I purchase something at a store that I could purchase for less online. My financial decisions help create what I am wishing to have offered to me by a store, a designer or maker. Understanding how to make choices that support them is equally important. Thanks again!
Definitely. Here in Europe, so many people complain about old shops being replaced by big chain stores. But mostly, when you ask them "well, when did you last go into that old shop to actually buy something", the answer is..."maybe 10 years ago?". Well, go figure ;-)
Thank you for sharing this knowledge with us. I get asked why I don't sell anything I make. One is people don't want to pay for the yarn and time it takes. Second, I'm not always sure it is legal, Third, I like making the item and just give it to loved ones or for baby showers. I never thought about the free pattern idea of just giving copy away. From now on I will give my sister the link. I've not sold any patterns/ books I've bought in past. I usually have just given the pattern/book to someone.
Oh wow that always wondered about this .I have made loads but I gift them to friends n family , I made a coat before covid for a friend's 8 year old daughter. Another friend here in UK asked me for the pattern not realising she sells all her crocheted things , she actually sold a lot of the coats , now this was in the back of my head for all this time but now I know . Thanks again if a another unique content .
Another great video! I made this mistake when asking for advice on a free pattern and someone corrected me in the comments. Appreciate all the info as usual!
yeah, you see this very often and I will assume it was an honest mistake on your behalf with no evil intentions. Sadly, it often forms the perfect opportunity for those who have :(
So glad, I could add some background info why this might not be something you want to do again.
In my many years of knitting, I’ve gained so much appreciation of the time and work that is involved in designing and publishing patterns. I’ve had friends ask to copy patterns I’ve purchased, and now I gently refer them to my Ravelry library, to have a look, where they can view the pattern source, and link to the many creative ways other knitters have interpreted the design. Hopefully, the many lovely variations will inspire them to purchase their own copy 😉 That said, some people are just looking to get something for free - they’re cheapskates and try to take advantage in all aspects of their lives 😂
I mean, I try to be frugal as well. But so many designers/knitters don't earn a minimal wage. So, I would say it's quite unethical to demand items for free
Thank you, Norman! That was very helpful! I especially appreciate that you talked about multiple countries and which things are likely to be the same or different.
Thank you for covering these legalities. I have been a member of several knitting and crochet groups on Facebook trying to warn people not to sell any knitted or crocheted items bearing sports logo, Disney characters or any other company logos, or resell patterns or sell things from patterns that do not give permissions. It is so frustrating people never listen or they will argue like crazy. I finally gave up and just let them do it and risk getting dragged thru the courts. I hope they take your advice. ❤
Well, they say karma is a bitch... 😅
I appreciate this video and I am generally aware of coyrights. I often gift a pattern to a friend when she asks me to share my copy of a designers patterrn, that is I buy her her own copy because I love to support my favorite designers. I have favorite patterns I knitted many many times and gifted the knits, I feel quite ok with that, but it is the first time I realize it is not a good idea to share a free pattern. Thanks for making me aware of that, from now on I will share the link to the free pattern.
glad I could add to your understanding, Nicole. It was one of the reasons why I created this video because I noticed this seemed to be a common gap.
Unusual video and useful too. This is stuff we seldom think of but should.
Glad you like it. I was quite unsure at first!
@@NimbleNeedles, it was a great and timely video! I wish there was more public awareness of intellectual rights. I’m just now seeing notices on some of the knitting groups I belong to online about being careful not to screenshot an entire pattern when asking for help with instructions, along with a detailed explanation, as you gave, of what is acceptable and why. As a writer and former journalist, I’m unfortunately all too familiar with plagiarism; some of my friends have had entire books lifted, names changed, and re-pubbed, and fighting it is an absolute nightmare, even for best-selling authors, especially, same as with patterns, when it’s in a digital format. That really changed the game for all of us. I had my daughter email the photographer of a photo she wanted to use in a fourth-grade school PowerPoint research project, asking for permission to use his photo, and offering to send him a copy of the PP show. He wrote her a beautiful email thanking her for her awareness of intellectual property, granting her permission to use it, and saying he’d be thrilled to see her work, and then another encouraging note after he received her PP email. Apparently it was the first time anyone had bothered to write him for permission! She had an excellent understanding of the concept at age nine. I only wish adults had a similar respect for it!
@@kattitude65 yeah, I too find these emails reassuring! 🥰
Thank you for this great video. It's useful info that everyone should have. I think creators generally get a raw deal as the majority of people don't seem to respect copyright rights.
Makes sense! Within online circles, whenever we share patterns, it's ALWAYS the links! (Not the pdf/pattern itself.)
way to go!
Thank you for sharing this video with us. It is very informative and I learned something new. I never share videos or pdfs of patterns. I teach my niece how to do a pattern without a video or sharing pdfs. Love your videos. Thank you!
You can definitely share (links) to public videos tho in most cases 😄
I will often take a photo of a book pattern if i want to work on the project when I'm not at home. But I never share them, just reference them on my phone
Norman, thank you for this video. Raised some issues that had never occurred to me, but now I'll be much more aware!
as I mentioned in the video, making personal copies for your personal use is probably totally okay within your jurisdiction!
I’d like to think the vast majority of us in the knitting world are honest and hold good moral values. Supporting local yarn stores, supporting independent knitters, and following Norman’s advice regarding sharing patterns or fragments of patterns.
Put yourself in the shoes of the designer. Use your common sense and if you are unsure if what you are about to do is allowed then email the designer. There are usually contact details on every design these days!
thank you for taking the time to research, compare and summarize all the important information. your work is much appreciated. ❤
so happy to hear this, Katarina
Timely topic. I chronicle my knitting activity on Instagram and Facebook because it’s easier than making a scrapbook about them. A friend really liked one of the projects I made and asked if she could buy it or if I could make it for her and she’d pay for it. I need to think twice about charging her if I were to oblige to her request. She wanted the item so she could give it as a gift for another friend. I paid for the pattern to be sure, and the designer didn’t specifically state that the finished product from the pattern cannot be sold.
Do make sure to head to my blog. There's an article on how much to charge/selling knitting as well
Very useful video Norman. Thank you for all the research you've done and all the time you've put into this video.
you are very welcome, Mary!
Thank you Norman! This was very helpful. There is a new wave of knitting happening, and I am pleased that those who know are keeping it respectful.
I like very much the interesting information I would have never asked to receive, and I can tell that you are very knowledgeable of a whole area of knitting at home and as a business. Thanks a lot. I am only beginning knitting and will keep in mind what you have said.
I’m so proud of you, Norman.. so glad to be an annual supporter on Patreon. Love you 🥰
glad to have you, Trish!
Thanks for sharing this. I'm still a relatively new knitter, and these were topics I hadn't even thought about. I have several friends whose livelihoods either currently or used to depend on creative endeavors, so I've definitely heard the negative impacts of sharing creative works without crediting the artist. This video helped me conceptualize knitting (and the hard work from pattern writers) more as a creative art instead of just a hobby for me.
Thank you for sharing this timely information, Norman. ❤
My pleasure!
Thank you for this info - it gives a good guide of what one COULD encounter and what to possibly be aware of when embarking on copying, selling or passing on to friends, family etc. Very useful food for thought.👍
Thank you. Very informative and updated Info. I normally buy patterns to make items for me and make gifts to my family and friends. I love my craft hobby, but I don’t have the time for selling what I made (firstly not a fast knitter or crocheter)❤
It's difficult to earn enough to justify the time it takes to knit something for sure!
@@NimbleNeedles So true! I’ve had people offer to pay me to knit them something I’ve made. I tell them they couldn’t afford to pay me. I knit for people I love - as long as I know they appreciate and will take proper care of knitted gifts. If I find out a lovely shawl is being used as a dog blanket…it’s the last hand knit item they will receive from me 😂
Thank you. Too many designers think hiding 'don't sell finished items' is valid.
I don't want to sell finished items designers don't want sold, and if it is in the listing before purchase I think it should be honored. I personally choose to honor it by not purchasing those patterns. If it's hidden, that designer removed my ability to informed consent and tricked my into a situation I would not have agreed to if I had all of the data up front. I'm pretty sure that's why they hide it, they know people will not buy it if they include that stipulation and that is lying and stealing (particularly when it cannot be returned). If it's hidden I want to go out of my way to sell a finished item even if I didn't plan to originally.
Yeah, I mean, in a way I feel ones should kinda honor their wish ..but of course, they kinda need to be upfront with it
So thoughtful and informative for your and other knit designers’ property and intellectual rights.
Thank you.
I often alter patterns for better fit or change the stitch pattern. How much alteration is required before it becomes a new pattern/design?
People fall within general size ranges. Stitch patterns have been knitted for generations. Thus it is likely that a pattern by a current "designer" has been created before, although in a different yarn and colour way.
Considering knitting and crochet are worldwide crafts, it is extremely unlikely anyone is going to know where the pattern came from, unless the crafter splashes it all over social media.
That can only be decided case by case. But as a rule of thumb: when a stranger would say, thus us different
Thank you, Norman, I've wondered about these issues...I was given two books by Cat Bordhi, and looked her up on TH-cam. She designed a new heal pattern, and teaches it online. The next time I searched for heals, because Cat got me addicted to experimenting, and found another woman teaching Cat's heal, without even giving her credit! It made me a bit angry, because it just isn't fair. Honestly though, I don't think I knit well enough to sell anything, it's mostly relaxing and the only way I can afford well made clothing! But you never know what's coming, so it's all good to know! Be well, Norman! You're channel is the best thing that covid inspired! 😸
I think you mean heels?
@@lauriesmith7517 yes! I hadn't had my coffee yet, thanks! Also, the word heal has been a big much used word for me since I was in a bicycle accident two years ago and three months on pain pills did a number on my digestive tract! Be well!
Cat Bordhi, unfortunately passed away in 2020. She was an incredible designer.
@@cielvt I didn't know that! Yes, she was, best fitting socks I've knit were from her patterns, but she does make you do the math to get that fit!
@@bhards she wrote sweet tomato heels.
Thanks!
thank you so much for supporting my work, sandra
I had no idea about any of that! Even the free patterns wow good to know!
Thank you for this information. Well researched and presented
You are very welcome 🥰🧶
Thank you very much for this video!! I am a (very) amateur, hobby knitter, so I admit I never even knew that issues pertaining to pattern rights etc were a thing! I suppose I should have realized that that would exist, as any artist or inventor would also be in that catagory! Thank you, I really appreciate the video!
THANK YOU for making this video! It's VERY useful and informative! Happy Knitting!
Your glove pattern is awesome and I love all the tips. I wanted to thank you for sharing this so generously. However it’s a little beyond my experience. I did download it and as my skills improve I hope to try it.
I think this was really helpful and especially because of digital copies it’s things to think about. Thank you
This is great to know. Thank you for doing this video
Thank you, I've been trying to tell family and friends who have been telling me to sell a lot of the stuff I make, but I have to look at the legal side of things, just like anything else. They say nothing is going to happen, everyone sells knitted things and makes money off of them. BUT I know there's more to this then just the technique of how knitting is done and there are too many patterns that are the same, even if I made that pattern up myself. I've looked at the laws and things like that where I live and it's overwhelming and a lot, so for now this is my hobby and I'm happy with that ☺️ 💕💕💕.
My brother keeps telling me to sell my stuff but the amount I would have to crochet/knit to make that profitable is far more than my current output. Which is few and far between.
@@Fickji your brother is not alone, as there are many others who think everyone should monetize their hobbies. If I made my knitting hobby into a job, I'd have to find another hobby! Of course, I'd starve first.😂
@Fickji 💯% and I'm not a machine/ robot to be knitting 2000 stitches a min lol.
@elsieb3176 that part, they don't know that when you do something as a hobby and then make it a business (unless that's what you want to do and not get tired of it) it turns unpleasant after awhile. Then you have to find something else to do that doesn't have to do with your business.
There definitely is more to it. Just because your knitting looks good, doesn't mean it's possible and/or viable 😓
Tho, there certainly are some who make it happen!
Thank you for your insight, research, and good information. It is straightforward in some areas and muddy in others simply because of so many variables. If. If, if. Helpful.
Heh..yeah...it certainly involves a lot of ifs 😅🤣
Thanks!
Thank you so much for supporting my work. Glad you appreciate my channel
Great information Norman. I agree that many people would like to borrow patterns. It’s a simple thing to refer them to the place you bought or obtained the pattern from. I had to look up ‘fungible’ Norman. It’s a long time since I had occasion to use that word!
😅😆
Thank you thank you for this very excellent explanation of why you should not share patterns. I particularly like the message that, once shared, the pattern is no longer accessible to you. You have given away the copy you bought.
My particular pet peeve (I’m an historical researcher) is unsourced information. A fact is set forth but where did it come from? Sometimes after you track it down, it turns out that there was a typo in the original that completely changes the meaning. ALWAYS cite your sources.
After you email a pattern, what happens to it? It can be emailed to more people. It can be taken by the second set of people and forwarded on - until thousands of copies are floating around, the source is lost or forgotten (NO hits on their website) and perhaps original creation begins to be disputed!
It’s just a bad bad idea, whether you’re on a small private/personal scale or a large commercial scale. It starts out at bad manners and disintegrates into theft.
I’m saving the link to this video and will have it handy when I see the question raised. Thank you thank you.
thank you for adding this. It is exactly as you say. The one you forward to it may do nothing with it or that little snowball creates an avalanche.
I have a coworker who is considering taking up knitting or crocheting, I made a play list of TH-cam videos for her. That way if she checks them out the person will get a click and hopefully a thumbs up.
Way to go! Convenient and supportive!
Wow such a great research! I'm gonna try this maybe, I also have friends who are thinking about trying knitting!
I was just wondering why I was able to find a (free) TH-cam tutorial for making a specific granny square when the pattern was for sale on revelry for $5. And this video prompted me to see if this granny square had been around for decades as the name suggests “Retro Daisy granny square”. I know I recognized this square from somewhere!
A tiktoker showing off their finished project using these squares gave credit to this paid pattern designer on revelry. Oh but the tutorials TH-cam did not!
So, in this case what does one do?
Instructions cannot be copyrighted. They only can be patented or trademarked. If that is not the case, you are probably free to do a tutorial. However, in the times of social media, this might still create a backlash. I've seen it quite a lot lately - especially on TikTok. It's a bit ironic because most of the crochet designs I see with these super chunky or plush yarn are so easy it takes like 5 brain cells and no effort to design.
Another very interesting video, so very informative. We don't always have these considerations around crafts, and this could lead to many a mistake. Thank you, Norman! 😊
Thanks for explaining sharing free patterns. Some very good info to know.
It sounds like copyright laws are similar to plagiarism rules. Am I understanding this correctly
yes, these two topics are closely connected. Basically plagiarism = copyright infringment.
As a new knitter I would never go into a store buy my yarn and then pick up the same amount for a friend without paying? It would never happen and we would never think of doing this. So please respect those who work hard to bring us patterns and have respect for them. Pay for them!
Thanks for this I'm not a teacher as some in the comments I'm just love knitting, I don't use free patterns unless it's a promotion from a shop, or from a magazine i bought i just feel each pattern I buy is like a gift to me, I have patterns from the 1970s when I started knitting, I still use them in modern yarns as well as new patterns I buy ,I knit for family and friends and give as gifts even if they ask for something sometimes putting info of patterns and yarn , others have learned to knit by method,this was not intended but is a happy they buy their own patterns now and enjoy knitting,🌄
just one note here: There is nothing wrong with downloading a free pattern. There are many reasons why a designer may do that but almost all do it because they believe they will benefit more from it as opposed to a paid pattern.
Still, your willingness to support designers is more than appreciated, Chris!
also another thing....selling finished projects of established characters like Mikey Mouse is a huge gray area. did the designer of that pattern get permission from the owner (in the case of Mickey Mouse would be the Disney Corperation) to use that character....same thing goes for trademarks and logs....like you buy a pattern or design a pattern yourself of logo of a baseball team (like the New York Mets) or a football team (like the New Orleans Saints).....same as a character, you must get permission from the owner of that trademark or logo
This is NOT a gray area!!! The Disney Corporation has sent legal letters to quilt makers and others for copyright infringement, especially when they enter their works in fairground type competitions or other public displays. Just because you can make a copy of an image like Mickey or Minnie Mouse, Star Wars characters, be aware that you are infringing copyright. I would assume that a knit or crochet copy of a character could receive the same attention.
Well, it's not really a Grey area. For private uses, you are probably allowed to knit whatever you want. But as soon as things get commercial or public, things look decidedly different.
The Grey area starts if you create art based on their characters (as opposed to copying existing images or parts thereof).
Another good response.
I play video games and fanart is a big part of those communities. The game I play the most is World of Warcraft and Blizzard has a very liberal fanart approach, which they explicitly state. Disney? Not so much. But the point is, since fanart is such a big part of some communities, there are companies that heavily encourage it, so it is worth a look at what the particular company says. :)
This was very interesting, although I have never encountered any of these specific situations. Occasionally I see a project made from an out of print pattern and wondered if it was possible to buy a copy from another knitter. Not clear on this if the pattern is digital, rather than in a book they own. If anyone here has experience doing this I would like your input (USA).
I find vintage knitting books at the library :) Other than that IDK how they would've gotten it. Maybe a relative or friend who owns the book.
That's an interesting topic.
Typically the owner holds the right to sell or cease selling.
If the company doesn't exist anymore, and there is no obvious heir/new owner..hm. maybe you can. I dunno how and when that would expire.
I wish more people considered these issues. Although I think videos like the issue more top of mind. Thank you for talking about it. I'm curious of your opinion on a rather large subtopic. If you were to use a pattern that featured the image of another companies intellectual property could you get yourself in trouble. Like if you put Disney characters into a color work project then tried to sell that finished item.
Difficult and very complicated topic with many different layers. These images/characters are typically trademarked. But if you add comentary/satire and/or you surpass the threshold of originality, you might still get away with it. Might, definitely a case by case thing
Thank you Norman. You made me aware of things I never thought about before.
always happy to hear that, Gabriele!
How many people would think about the legality of sharing a pattern ? Luckily I am useless with techy stuff so I wouldn't think about passing patterns on digitally ! Thanks for bringing this to our attention. God bless. Sandi UK.
This is very helpful. I had recently started to consider selling some of my knitting, but I noticed on one of my patterns that it said not to sell items made from the pattern, so I thought I would only sell ones that didn't say that in the copyright section and give them credit, but I was so nervous about getting in trouble anyways.
I mean...yeah..you could...but it always kinda leaves you with a moral dilema! :(
I don't plan to sell from the pattern that says you aren't supposed to. Even if it's legal, it would feel disrespectful.
I just paid 10 bucks for a pattern from a Dutch designer that was so poorly translated I to e glish I'd like to simply send it right back to her. I've delete so i never have to see it again in my files. The designer, sic, made me feel dumb, yay and was very unhelpful. I don't mind paying but please, get it right. I don't need stress, knitting is supposed to be pleasurable. Ciao...
There are free patterns all over the world....I have downloaded many. The charity shops are reselling old patterns too.
Yes, that is certainly true...
I've wondered about this. On sites like Etsy and Ravelry, designers produce a pattern, then these sites begin to overflow with "new" patterns that are exactly the same.
Yeah...that happens quite often 🙈
Great topic, definitely lots of food for thought.
A similar issue happens with sheet music of contemporary music. I used to find copyright a huge hassle and paying fees not feasible as a (at that time) poor student. But then I befriended someone who makes choir arrangements professionally and saw how much work those arrangements actually take, just like knitting patterns. Having another choir sell tickets and perform a pirated arrangement, quickly starts feeling really wrong when the arranger struggles for money. That would be equivalent to selling knitted items made from a copied pattern, even if it is for charity. So with that in mind I now try to be correct when it comes to knitting patterns, too (even if I don't sell the items because I wish I could knit that fast ;-))
Anyway, do you know how it works with libraries? Is it allowed to make a copy of a pattern from a library book? It should be allowed to borrow the book and knit from it, I would think, but it doesn't pay the designer directly.
I don't know that. Possibly. But why not ask your librarian. They should know!
Definitely ask the librarian, although I would think there shouldn’t be an issue with one pattern, because library books *generally* are bound differently than mass market-sold books (and cost quite a bit more than one sold to individuals), because they have to hold up to much more handling than a book that isn’t in circulation. I spent a decade on the board of a Friends of the Library group, explaining (a couple hundred times a year!) that books donated to the library didn’t go into circulation, but were sold by us at book sales to fund library needs. The librarians showed me the difference in the bindings; they’re far sturdier. In that case, the designer has been paid on the front end through the sale of the book. You’d need to check the copyright page of the particular book. I haven’t looked at newer ones, but some of the older ones had fair use language in them. I bought a couple of old stitch encyclopedias at one of the library sales. They’re only good for ideas for me; they’re made for right/wrong side, and I knit in the round, but when I was first learning how to knit lace and cables years ago, they were great for inspiration and practice swatches.
Interesting and helpful. Thank you.
I was watching a podcast with a famous designer answering questions...she was asked if someone could sell items made from her patterns....answer: absolutely not!!!
Well...I heard that too and it left me puzzled and almost annoyed 😒
@@NimbleNeedles I'm glad you know who I was talking about.... I was very taken aback at the comment. I'm less likely to purchase a pattern because of it.
Meanwhile, Etsy is so full of people selling PDF copies of vintage patterns of all kinds, that it can be difficult to even find physical patterns and books to buy.
Well, I suspect for some of them there is no entity left to care. And that's why they get away with it...or they may even have acquired a license. 🤷
Fascinating topic. As a sewer, I am guilty of taking apart old clothing to make a pattern, so that I can remake the item in new fabric. I guess I’m a criminal?
haha..I don't think you are. 1) you are not selling the pattern 2) even if you were, any registered copyright probably has already expired (depending on where you are located).
I always enjoy your Videos, thank you
Glad to hear that! 🥰
thanks for making clear an issue that has always seemed very fuzzy. I would also love to hear about your experiences as a designer and whether you've faced any issues with publishing a design that someone else thinks is too similar to their design
i never had that problem. But i certainly noticed other designers stealing my idees and sometimes publishing pattern that were veeeery similar.
Norman, what can happen if you design, a garment, never seen a pattern and decide to sell it and then find out that there is a pattern out there?
I am no lawyer. But probably nothing if the pattern/design isnt patented or there is a trademark
You are allowed to sell your hand made clothes regardless if they are from a pattern or not.
Thanks for the information on legal stuff. I wasn’t aware of some things and will be checking it out (here in Ontario, Canada). Funny story. One day my husband was driving me and my girlfriend to the wool shop and on the way we were talking. We kept saying Norman this and Norman that… Finally my husband said, “Who’s Norman?” It was almost like my girlfriend and I had this secret boyfriend…lol… I think he was relieved when we told him who you are.
Haha..hope he doesn't get jealous 🙈🙈🙈
I need to forward to my son to print. I only use my phone making it necessary to forward in order to print.
Well, your son might probably count as family. Do know however, that a court might not really care whether you have no access to a printer or not.
Supposing I type out a pattern I have used from memory? And supposing I have altered something, say I put a different kind of collar on and knitted it without seams?
not sure what the question is. But minor changes typically don't mean you surpass the treshold of originality.
Wow Norman! You have been a busy man; all that research! Thank you for this very insightful post. Copywriting is certainly quite a quagmire.
I do have a question for you: I have been caught forgetting I had bought a pattern only to find out that I had already bought it some time ago. I have then “gifted” my extra copy of said pattern to a like-minded knitter friend of mine. Am I in breach of the copyright act? I felt that I owned the pattern since I had bought it. What are your thoughts?
I must say that every time I wear or gift an article I have knitted, I always give the origin or the name of the pattern writer. I do not give a copy of it to admirers! ❣️🌹
well, I guess this kind of depends if it's print or digital. If it's digitial, you probably kinda still are because the spare copy will still remain in your possession as you pass it along (for that very reason ravelry has a "gift this pattern" option).
Remember, there are actually quite some reasons why someone would buy two copies of something. Say, a collector who wants to use one item and keep the one pristine for their collection. Or maybe you want to write on the margins in one book/use it for study, and the other one is placed in the pretty shelf. Or you are worried that it might break over time and you like a spare, etc. So, a court would not actually be interested if you bought 1 or 20. The fact would remain, that through sending an email or whatever you created digital copies of something and you were probably not allowed to do so.
In reality, I am highly doubtful that someone would actually take you to court. After all, your intentions were good.
At least, I certainly wouldn't :)
@@NimbleNeedles Thank you for that Norman. Yes, it was a purchased digital pattern. No postage that way. 👍☺️
Yes this is why I design my own patterns when making my garments 🎉
I do, too. I have people ask to buy my sock patterns, and patterns for a couple of shoulder bags over the years. Alas, I am bone lazy. I’ve never written a single one down. 😂 I’ve charted a couple of lace patterns out, but mostly just start at the toe, fit as I go, and finesse the chart to fit. I could probably go back and make a pattern for my size from the finished sock, but…again, too lazy to do other sizes. Same with sewing.