Just a quick update for folks - as of Dec 29th 2020, Wahoo has released a firmware update to fix the accuracy issues. More details here: th-cam.com/video/r7HQqP9y15I/w-d-xo.html
If you have a previous kickr, go to a hardware store and get some washing machine anti-vibration feet. They are just thick recycled rubber mats. You can put more or less under there depending on how much movement you want.
I'm 9 minutes into the review of a $1200 smart trainer, and the feature discussed so far is whether a rubber pod is compressing or not. And then Ray just closes this part with "tennis balls are probably a better option". I nearly choked on my dinner.
@@Dcrainmaker in fact, for me it was the decision maker towards the TACX Neo 2…many thanks indeed…I was looking exactly for this kind of upgrade to my existing 8 year old setup
Is possible know for you knowledge, for your opinion wich trainner is more accurate? and what really you recommended? Saris H3, Elite Suito, Wahoo kikr? i want to buy my first smart trainner and i dont know to much. i want not to veri high in price but one that really value the price. Thanks for you time and recomendation.
The whole reason why adapters exist is in order to EXTEND the compatibility through Interface 1 to also allow it through Interface 2. In the kickr’s case, the RJ11 port is entirely useless in and of itself - you HAVE TO buy the adapter in order to actually use the feature. It’s basically like buying a power bank that has an old serial port that you first need to buy a Serial2USB adapter for. Given that I would frankly refrain from calling this port an actual feature of the new kickr. The wired connectivity is a feature of the dongle - not the bike.
Correct. Usually a proprietry connection is used where a manufacturer wants to use their connection but an adapter can be used to convert to a different connection. In this case Wahoo are offering a connection that cannot be used by anyone unless extra cash is spent. Unless the RJ45 connection requires a significant cost per unit and so Wahoo are transferring that cost to only the customers that want it and not onto every single Kickr?
Great video as always. I don’t think that creak is your bottom bracket. You’ll notice that the creak is not there when your standing out of the saddle. Best to rule out the 1. seat post (remove, clean regrease with carbon paste) 2 Saddle rails clean, regrease and torque 3. Rear skewer remove clean and regrease I had this issue in my Canyonand it turned out to be both the saddle rails and rear skewer. Good luck.
A took recite of the new KICKR this morning. The KICKR broke, same way as the 2018 version first time I used it (or at least it sounds the same). I actually broke when I was trying to do some heavy gear efforts.
It actually looks like the compression is actually impacted mostly by the rubber at the back/bottom. thats where the roll comes from, the feet only stops it,
I just purchased a Kickr v5 and got it set up last night, coming from an Elite Direto that I've been training on for 4 years. A couple of things that have been troubling me that are different then the way the Direto functioned, wondering if I can work that out. I'm pairing with Apple 4k TV via Bluetooth and using Zwift. I did a quick test in ERG mode, first thing is that when I accelerate or spin up faster, the power or speed does not change in Zwift. I know ERG holds you to a certain power, but on the Direto it would show those changes (increase speed and power in Zwift) then average back down to the set power within a few seconds. Maybe this is something that can be changed in the APP? I haven't tried to play with the ERG mode smoothing or speed simulation yet. I'm hoping that will make it more like what I was used too. Second, the effort at a given power in ERG mode seams to be way off. I know the Kickr is suppose to be more accurate then the Direto, but this is like 15% - 20% difference. Example; Doing a Vo2 set of 5min x 5 ERG intervals, usually around 310w, I could barely get through the first one, and during the 2nd I had to drop the power to around 270w, and that felt more like what I was used too on the Direto. My last 20min FTP test on that trainer was 264w (2 weeks ago/ 56yrs old 77kg) which is up from 240w a few months ago. Maybe the Direto just sucked when it came to accuracy, and if that's the case I'll have to re-adjust all my workouts to match the lower power numbers that the Kickr is reporting, kind of sucks from a motivation stand point :-( My power numbers have improved outside on the bike too, but the funny thing is I've always been able to hold more power on the trainer then on the bike, a lot of people report the opposite.
The cassette isn’t great, it’s a standard sun race but I found mine was noisy on sprockets 2-4, this goes away if you fit an equivalent shimano 11sp. If you have a 2020 Giant TCR disc and a few other bikes from Trek and Canyon then the thru axle adapter isn’t Compatible with the dropouts on the frame so it won’t work with those bikes. The fix is to get a spare spacer and machine a few mm off the shoulder: or get your local machine shop to turn a new one for you from alloy bar stock. Otherwise I got my V5 at new year and enjoy using it, the ERG can be caught out if you freewheel for a few seconds when adjusting a shoe etc. but as noted in the video it resets if you let it spin down and start pedalling again.
I bought the V4 refurbished (its my first one) w/ 1 year warranty for 599€ the prices are too high for V6 and i was looking for V5 near my city but the most near is like 700 km away so... finally i just taked the V4 in the offical store.
I have a new KICKR purchased Aug 2022 and had a problem straight away with the Cadence tracking. It would jump all over the place during a workout, causing the resistance to constantly change as well - very frustrating. I just exchanged an email with support and they told me to do a Factory Spin-down. I plan to try this in the morning.
So far Direto XR seems best trainer out there considering it cost 500 eur less but has improved in max gradient, power accuracy and ability to broadcast BT and ANT+ simultaneously. Only thing it does not have is wired connectivity. Maybe Im missing smth obvious, but what's the point now of getting kickr or neo, when xr so much improved?
@@Dcrainmaker something similar happened to me last year, on a new Stages right-side power meter crank. In my case Stages (or Shimano) didn't install the crank bolts correctly or the spider wasn't tapped correctly. Every bolt was stripped out, so it was just a matter of time before the bolts gave way. It got wobbly on the way home from a ride then the small chainring came off. I'm glad I didn't crash. To their credit, Stages replaced it free of charge.
Has anyone tried to see if the thru-axle adapter from Tacx (part # S0040), works on the Kickr? I have a 2015 Diverge Carbon Comp that has a 135 x 12 thru-axle. So far it seems that a Tacx Neo 2T is the only trainer I can use. But I see from a number of folks the bearings keep going bad on them and Garmin doesn't care.
Glad to hear that running changes for reliability are on recent 2018 models --- I literally just unboxed my third 2018 unit. Both of my earlier units died the same way with no power/speed. My second one was also super noisy. A pain, but Wahoo's customer service was really good both times.
My Wahoo Bolt had a small blemish in the screen and I got ahold of their tech support, they sent another one right away once I sent mine back, Seemed like awesome service, they even let me choose a different colored one for the new one.
Enjoyed the review as always. Oh the joys of bottom brackets. Wouldn't be a press fit would it ? Maybe you could do a review of options available on the market ? Are your chainrings straight? The clip makes them look bent or are they oval ?
@@markstone5390 I suspect so, it's not that old a unit. I seems to have more play than it should this week. In looking down on it, there's clearly some lateral wiggle occuring. I'm not really a BB expert. Usually I just replace it and call it done.
Interesting, I guess when Wahoo says the tilt is 5 degrees total, they’re not joking, so it’s likely just tilt 2.5deg on one direction which pretty much looks like what’s shown in the video. I would think the reason why Wahoo didn’t make it go further is for compatibility with the Kickr Climb as tilt it further and you could really topple. Though perhaps this extra degree of movement is all what’s needed to improve the feel on the trainer for long rides without feeling like you’re rear end is bolted on a hard surface?
I’ve just bought one of these. Everything I own is pretty much Garmin, I cannot figure out a way to get my heart rate on any apps on my Apple TV or my iPad :(. I am using a Garmin HRM which i believe is Ant+ (Had it a few years) I assumed that the Garmin would talk to the kickr and the kickr would broadcast to the apple device, but it seems it doesn’t, it just talks to the apple device. How is ant+ / Bluetooth still an issue with anything not Garmin?? Can I just get it all to talk to my Garmin 820 instead and upload to training peaks that way? I really don’t want to have to fork out for a new HRM again, I had to give up with my Polar one years ago because that wouldn’t talk to any of my Garmin stuff!
Strictly speaking the HRM's dont talk to the kickr itself (what would it do with the data?). If you're on something like Zwift, then use the companion app to link all your stuff together. I use Zwift through Apple TV and its the companion app that links it all together. Just make sure that Apple TV is also on wifi if using that
Thanks for the video. So now extra sensors are needed? Just the heart rate sensor? The Wahoo Kickr gives power, speed, and cadence on its own while giving the right resistance?
When looking at the video from the rear, a lot of the play seems to be in the frame of the kickr itself, not in the feet. Both old feet and new feet showed a decent amount of flex overall, despite the new feet visibly compressing much more than the old feet. Is a test on the hardwood floor of an apartment with sound measurement from the unit below out of the question? Also plagued by wireless dropouts. Sufferfest always has far fewer dropouts than Zwift. Just gonna say that my technical issues with my kicker (purchased in December of 2019) seem to be more of a Zwift thing than anything else. I've definitely noticed a huge issue with power surges (like, I can feel my effort spiking dramatically compared to the numbers on screen). Would connecting my Vector3 pedals get a much smoother power response on races (and fewer/no dropouts when connecting to Zwift)? I like the feel of the kickr, but overall I'm kickng myself for not getting a different smart trainer.
Hey Dc Rainmaker love your videos, big fan! While testing the Wahoo Kickr v5 did you have any issues with compatibility with the Canyon ultimate cf sl?? I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and It says it's not compatible with the kickr.. do you have a solution maybe or a recomendation what to do? I've seen some that put washers or grind away a few milimiters from the wahoo kickr.. thanks in advance for the response :) Keep up the good work!
DC Rainmaker , thanks you for your review. I am conducting research on which smart trainer I will purchase. At this time it is between the Wahoo Kicker and Tac X neo. But the question I have or you is...........what is your thought on using a carbon fiber frame “I have a Scott foil” I’ve read it’s not recommended by some bike manufacturers.
Great in-depth review as always. Have you thought of winding the feet all the way in? The central foot appears to have a chamfer “v” profile between the grey and black material (are they different density rubber/plastic?) allowing the trainer to tip from side to side. With the outer feet wound all the way out, the outriggers are effectively taking proportionally more load, preventing the trainer from rocking. Im wondering if you wound in the outrigger feet, would it allow the central foot to take the weight and the outriggers to absorb the rock when you’re desired amount of “rock” is reached?
Yeah, I played a bit. If I pulled the feet in a bit, then I got rocking, but only because I was airgapped on both sides.So more bouncing than compression. In my case, I put the feet out all the way till they touched the ground solidly on both sides, which is supposed to be how it works. And, on concrete it does absorb more for sure.
Is there any noise issue again? Do I need to send it back again and again? The nightmare is happened repeatedly on my Kickr 4. I don't trust them and I won't recommend Wahoo's prodcut to my friends anymore.
Am I crazy or is your chain ring bent? When looking at it from the back while showing the Axis feature it looks like the chain ring has one side that isn't straight.
How does the noise and vibration compares to the Tacx Neo (any decibel figures?)? And how does it compare with it in terms of pedaling smoothness? Tried a Tacx Neo and it was fine, now doing some research about this Kickr 5 for the upcoming indoor season ;)
Brilliant run down on the Wahoo kicker, exactly the information i was looking for. I am interested to know if you made a similar tutorial on the Tacx Neo 2 im looking for a smart trainer and was wondering which one to go for so keen to see how the Tacx preform, noise level glitches if there are any and performance. i heard their customers service is not the best, is there any truth to this rumor? I am interested in dimensions of widths for both trainers when legs open as i have limited floor space. Can you help? Many thanks
For the wired connectivity, I’m thinking also for using the Kickr in situations like a spin gym or e-racing as you’ll have multiple Kickrs and you might have interference issues or linking annoyances. Not sure why they don’t just use Ethernet cable as it’s thicker and should prove more durable and able to do more things in the future
Yeah, this seems like a bizarre decision for them to have made. Like... why introduce the need for an adapter that people are going to have to pay for when you could have just used an ethernet cable. It's so silly. I'm guessing the next kickr circa 2022 will have this and it will be 'revolutionary'.
Well it's more than just "using an Ethernet cable." It requires an Ethernet adapter, with an onboard processor, MAC address, and other networking elements. I agree with the value of this, but I'm pointing out that there may have been constraints with size power and integration that didn't make sense given a projected low demand for that feature. To keep costs down and reliability up, they would want to reduce physical interfaces not expand them.
Just picked mine up and done a couple of rides on New York. With zwift settings at MAX I have found that the resistance feels a bit wavy or grabby. This is when the gradient is not changing, feel it at 5%, 8% and up (to 17%). Anybody else experience this?
Hi DC Rainmaker, great vid, thx for that, short question re clearance. On my Taxc Neo 1 I cant ride in gear one as the cage on my 11 speed C is touching the plastic of the Neo. It looks that the Kickr V5 doesnt have the issue, can you confirm ? Same if you have disc brakes. Seen brakes touching the plastic cover too (currently not an issue for me as I have Rim Bs).
Hi Ray, great video as all of them! i’m an owner of the Kikr 2018; i was about to buy the new Trek Emonda 2021 and i’ve just red wahoo says Kikr is not compatible with new emonda. how you see this? do you think wahoo will implement something? thanks
That would be nice, I'm thinking even if it were possible, would Wahoo actually do it and potentially lose sales of the new Kickr. Then again, would someone buy a new Kickr (if they had the v4) just so they wouldn't have to perform a spindown?
@@paulinfrancis I know what you mean. I have the V4 also and the only reason I'd get a V5 is if / when this one dies (I'm actually on my 4th in 2 years) and the warranty is about to expire in December 2020. The V5 will need to be practically bulletproof for me to think about dropping not an insignificant amount of cash on it. But then again I also know people that have gone through multiple Tacx Neos. You'd think for the premium price tag the quality of these things would be so much better
Any idea why my new 2020 Kickr suddenly locks up? Riding Zwift the resistance fluctuates from nothing at all spinning out to too difficult to turn the cranks. It just started doing this the other day. Workouts in ERG mode, everything is fine. It's the free rides or races when the thing seizes up. And this is my second v5 from Wahoo (the first one had a rattling flywheel). Totally disgusted. Amazing Wahoo is still having issue with their trainers.
Do you know if Wahoo has stated if running this trainer hardwired will resolve the current issue with Wahoo trainers not being able to operate in the same room as each other ( due to excessive signal interference)? As an aside, this would be an interesting thing to add/evaluate in general reviews ( which brands can/can't operate next to another smart trainer) , as this fact was only advertised after contacting the Wahoo help line.
There's no issues with Wahoo trainers and interference. I've been to countless events with a dozen Wahoo trainers in the room without issue. ANT+ & BLE have their own unique ID's. I'm honestly not sure what on earth Wahoo support is talking about there (since they regularly hold events themselves with Zwift and other platforms...well...pre-COVID anyway).
Thanks, great video! I tried to change out the feet caps but only managed to yank off the rubber part. How do you change those? Also, my Kickr seems fairly loud, so I guess “quiet” is in the ears of the hearer. Some have suggested changing the cassette to a Shimano to reduce noise. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Another awesome video Ray! I am thinking of upgrading to eTap AXS 12 speed group set. Have you tried this on the kicker and what adjustments are required? Thanks and keep up the great work!
I haven't tried that, as I don't have an AXS bike (just a regular 11sp eTAP bike). That said, you'd simply need the Wahoo XD/XDR freehub (I think $59), and then a normal 12-speed AXS cassette. Quick and easy to swap.
Would you recommend the Tacx Neo T2 or the new Kickr, based on your experience? Looking to upgrade my old trainer, and is indecisive between the two. Both seem to have their flaws and strengths.
neo 2t have a bearing issue....search for it and youll see a great video. I was in the same boat as you and now for sure not getting the neo 2t. Itll be kickr or H3 for cheaper for me.
Very good review, i get a little lost with the data at the end is the over surge a real bad thing? would you recommend buying or is my money better somewhere else. stay well cheers
Not a major bad thing, but not ideal either. Sorta if one of your car windows got stuck 1cm from the top while trying to close. Probably not the end of the world, but not ideal if it dumps out. I suspect they'll get it sorted in short order.
Question, the % accuracy claims regarding power. What is this in reference to? Is it compared to some standardised test that all manufacturers adhere to and can perform? Or is just marketing claims with no real solid scientific basis. For example if you had a weight scale and said it was 99% accurate that should be against the international standard of what 1kg is. Is this
Hey; is there a way to avoid the bike moving forward during a hard sprint? Feels like some of my cyclist friends don’t have this problem. Is there a way to adjust the kickr axis feet so my bike doesn’t advanced into the Tv wall when I’m doing 800w for 15s? Thanks
I use a front wheel brace that has a rubber bottom and also unscrew the feet a little so they brace the trainer on the floor better. Mine doesn’t move an inch.
I am having issues with my new Kickr 2020. Already got the first unit replaced because of terrible humming noise/ vibrations. Now the replacement one is a lot better, but still makes audible humming noises and even worse the whole bike is vibrating every second or so. Really is tiring to feel through hands/ feet after half an hour or so. Coming from an original NEO I never had issues like that. Wahoo has not been responding for a week or so. Anybody else experiencing vibration/ noises with their new Kickr?
I am having the same problems with my kickr. But i havent got a new one or so. I raplaced Almost everything on the bike, but vibrations still there. Most on high gears
My third Kickr 2020 arrived a few days ago and I just got to test it for the first time. While it seems to be the quietest so far at warm up power, the issues are about the same while more intense training. I can instantly reproduce the worst sound/ vibration by dropping the cadence to around 60 and 150 watts and above. Overall the vibration I can feel on the bike is similar. Just the audible part differs to the other ones. No idea what to do now. Wahoo acknowledges the issues. But replacing it over and over does not fix it. I am an idiot for having sold the Neo...
I currently have a first Gen kickr which has been rinsed for about 80k km, so its started to feel really sluggish and the accuracy seems to have nosedived when I test it against my various powermeters (power is down by 20-30w compared to my 2 separate stages powermeters).. how much of a difference am i going to see upgrading to the V5 Kickr?
Hey @DCRainmaker you probably want to test Zwift in ERG mode as well, I’m pretty sure you’ll see the low cadence issue there as well as I have seen in my Kickr ‘18. Probably is Zwift rather than Wahoo that needs to fix the low latency issue? What do you think ?
DC Rainmaker I just got a new Kickr v5 and it’s defective straight out the box. The flywheel is untrue and rubbing the base. I’m contacting Wahoo to get a replacement 😒
One question. If this Kickr v5 is essentially the culmination of months of refinement, so an evolution, not a revolution, and the internals are essentially the same, then will the Kickr18 be getting a firmware update to include the autocalibration support that this v5 / 2020 model has?
I was wondering the same thing, but in terms of why the accuracy is suddenly so brutal in sim mode on this one if it's essentially the same as the "improved" Kickr18--is the auto-calibration throwing things off?
I'm really hoping they push a firmware update to do just that on the Kickr18. Not sure how that'd affect sales of the newer device, but it does look like most of the hardware from Kickr18 is used on this new V5, apart from the feet being included with a V5 purchase. With the Kickr18 and V5 prices being the same, you're effectively then just getting the new feet for free. So they shouldn't be creating a big Excess & Obsolete inventory problem and that firmware update would surely also restore some lost confidence in the Wahoo brand for those that have had warranty issues to deal with.
@@aiyaaz1 I don't think there are many kickr '18's in stock in most places anymore. I'm semi hoping that places try to clear them out though for the v5. Would be a good way to get a unit.
@@rishabhphukan8339 yeah definitely should be some deals to be had on Kickr18 units. I have one and love it. It is a very solid trainer and I feel no need to "upgrade" to V5 to be honest.
How does this trainer compare to a legacy Elite Real Turbo Muin in terms of feel? What is the current fastest responding trainer for erg mode intervals on zwift?
I've read that there is a way of identifying it through the serial number on the kickr. They dont seem to follow a typical format as my current one (my third) starts with 012019xxxxx (obviously not x's) which leads me to think it was made January 2019, my previous one started with 011838xxxxx which I think means it was made in either January 2018 or the 38th week of 2018 or batch 38 (in 2018)
@@STX600full Most of the noise or vibrations is coming from the drive train and not the kickr. With a perfekt drive train setup, and a good exercise mat, it should be fine, but you now how hard it is to get that ;-). And I have it now for a year with 135h, and the core is running fine. The kickr climb died after 90h and wahoo replaced it.
Just a quick update for folks - as of Dec 29th 2020, Wahoo has released a firmware update to fix the accuracy issues. More details here: th-cam.com/video/r7HQqP9y15I/w-d-xo.html
If you have a previous kickr, go to a hardware store and get some washing machine anti-vibration feet. They are just thick recycled rubber mats. You can put more or less under there depending on how much movement you want.
Great idea. Have anyone tried it out?
I'm 9 minutes into the review of a $1200 smart trainer, and the feature discussed so far is whether a rubber pod is compressing or not. And then Ray just closes this part with "tennis balls are probably a better option". I nearly choked on my dinner.
I almost cut it in editing...but, decided it was a keeper. :)
@@Dcrainmaker in fact, for me it was the decision maker towards the TACX Neo 2…many thanks indeed…I was looking exactly for this kind of upgrade to my existing 8 year old setup
When the Wahoo is a rocking don’t come a knocking.
Thanks for the laugh! lol
Thanks for watching! If you're looking for piles more accuracy data, hit up my full in-depth written review here: dcra.in/KICKR2020
Is possible know for you knowledge, for your opinion wich trainner is more accurate? and what really you recommended?
Saris H3, Elite Suito, Wahoo kikr? i want to buy my first smart trainner and i dont know to much. i want not to veri high in price but one that really value the price. Thanks for you time and recomendation.
The whole reason why adapters exist is in order to EXTEND the compatibility through Interface 1 to also allow it through Interface 2. In the kickr’s case, the RJ11 port is entirely useless in and of itself - you HAVE TO buy the adapter in order to actually use the feature.
It’s basically like buying a power bank that has an old serial port that you first need to buy a Serial2USB adapter for.
Given that I would frankly refrain from calling this port an actual feature of the new kickr. The wired connectivity is a feature of the dongle - not the bike.
Correct. Usually a proprietry connection is used where a manufacturer wants to use their connection but an adapter can be used to convert to a different connection.
In this case Wahoo are offering a connection that cannot be used by anyone unless extra cash is spent.
Unless the RJ45 connection requires a significant cost per unit and so Wahoo are transferring that cost to only the customers that want it and not onto every single Kickr?
This is still the definitive video on the kickr 5, really nice job.
Thanks!
Great video, I'm contemplating getting my first ever trainer, so this has been useful.
Which one did you get?
Great video as always. I don’t think that creak is your bottom bracket. You’ll notice that the creak is not there when your standing out of the saddle. Best to rule out the
1. seat post (remove, clean regrease with carbon paste)
2 Saddle rails clean, regrease and torque
3. Rear skewer remove clean and regrease
I had this issue in my Canyonand it turned out to be both the saddle rails and rear skewer.
Good luck.
Bottom bracket: “creaks”
Hambini: T R I G G E R E D
True!
😜👍
A took recite of the new KICKR this morning. The KICKR broke, same way as the 2018 version first time I used it (or at least it sounds the same).
I actually broke when I was trying to do some heavy gear efforts.
LOL! "...science, for the win!" Love it! Stay cool, man! Thank you, once again, for your dedication to providing information.
Thanks!
Dude... pushing out 250 watts without breaking a sweat in mid conversation.... 👍👍👍
It actually looks like the compression is actually impacted mostly by the rubber at the back/bottom. thats where the roll comes from, the feet only stops it,
very useful video!!!because i have study kickr 4th for a long time ,now it comes 5th .Thanks for your test!!
Thanks - appreciate it!
You always do a great job of explaining products and features. Thanks.
Thanks!
Well done on the review as usual and Congrats on hitting and passing 200k mark 🎊
Thanks man - appreciate it!!!
I just purchased a Kickr v5 and got it set up last night, coming from an Elite Direto that I've been training on for 4 years. A couple of things that have been troubling me that are different then the way the Direto functioned, wondering if I can work that out. I'm pairing with Apple 4k TV via Bluetooth and using Zwift. I did a quick test in ERG mode, first thing is that when I accelerate or spin up faster, the power or speed does not change in Zwift. I know ERG holds you to a certain power, but on the Direto it would show those changes (increase speed and power in Zwift) then average back down to the set power within a few seconds. Maybe this is something that can be changed in the APP? I haven't tried to play with the ERG mode smoothing or speed simulation yet. I'm hoping that will make it more like what I was used too. Second, the effort at a given power in ERG mode seams to be way off. I know the Kickr is suppose to be more accurate then the Direto, but this is like 15% - 20% difference. Example; Doing a Vo2 set of 5min x 5 ERG intervals, usually around 310w, I could barely get through the first one, and during the 2nd I had to drop the power to around 270w, and that felt more like what I was used too on the Direto. My last 20min FTP test on that trainer was 264w (2 weeks ago/ 56yrs old 77kg) which is up from 240w a few months ago. Maybe the Direto just sucked when it came to accuracy, and if that's the case I'll have to re-adjust all my workouts to match the lower power numbers that the Kickr is reporting, kind of sucks from a motivation stand point :-( My power numbers have improved outside on the bike too, but the funny thing is I've always been able to hold more power on the trainer then on the bike, a lot of people report the opposite.
The cassette isn’t great, it’s a standard sun race but I found mine was noisy on sprockets 2-4, this goes away if you fit an equivalent shimano 11sp.
If you have a 2020 Giant TCR disc and a few other bikes from Trek and Canyon then the thru axle adapter isn’t Compatible with the dropouts on the frame so it won’t work with those bikes.
The fix is to get a spare spacer and machine a few mm off the shoulder: or get your local machine shop to turn a new one for you from alloy bar stock.
Otherwise I got my V5 at new year and enjoy using it, the ERG can be caught out if you freewheel for a few seconds when adjusting a shoe etc. but as noted in the video it resets if you let it spin down and start pedalling again.
I bought the V4 refurbished (its my first one) w/ 1 year warranty for 599€ the prices are too high for V6 and i was looking for V5 near my city but the most near is like 700 km away so... finally i just taked the V4 in the offical store.
Love watching your videos. Now biking around in Seattle WA but born and raised in Amsterdam
If three months from now I don't find hundreds of kickr v5 problem videos on youtube, i might consider it.
Omg, only at 14:44, when you open the website, I realized I was watching His Majesty, DC Rainmaker! 😱
I have a new KICKR purchased Aug 2022 and had a problem straight away with the Cadence tracking. It would jump all over the place during a workout, causing the resistance to constantly change as well - very frustrating. I just exchanged an email with support and they told me to do a Factory Spin-down. I plan to try this in the morning.
Thanks Ray. Another excellent review as always. However Confucius says buy last years model. It may be cheaper and just as good.
Excellent concrete analysis. I'll be watching for the next instalment 😂😎✌️🇦🇺
That's what I'm hear for! I mean, here.
THANKS DC Always love your stuff. Liked!
I just my original 2014 Kickr wasn't a boat anchor. Dropouts and spikes are the only thing it's good for.
So far Direto XR seems best trainer out there considering it cost 500 eur less but has improved in max gradient, power accuracy and ability to broadcast BT and ANT+ simultaneously. Only thing it does not have is wired connectivity. Maybe Im missing smth obvious, but what's the point now of getting kickr or neo, when xr so much improved?
I just ordered mine :-)
Can it be used with a 8 speed HG31
Can the directo XR be used with an 8 speed HG31
who uses 8 speed bike on trainer...come on...
Your bb/front chainring is messed up - you can see it wobbling even when your bike isn't swaying - 7:20 or so for example.
Yup, whole thing is all weird. Gonna take it all apart later this week.
@@Dcrainmaker something similar happened to me last year, on a new Stages right-side power meter crank. In my case Stages (or Shimano) didn't install the crank bolts correctly or the spider wasn't tapped correctly. Every bolt was stripped out, so it was just a matter of time before the bolts gave way. It got wobbly on the way home from a ride then the small chainring came off. I'm glad I didn't crash. To their credit, Stages replaced it free of charge.
Has anyone tried to see if the thru-axle adapter from Tacx (part # S0040), works on the Kickr? I have a 2015 Diverge Carbon Comp that has a 135 x 12 thru-axle. So far it seems that a Tacx Neo 2T is the only trainer I can use. But I see from a number of folks the bearings keep going bad on them and Garmin doesn't care.
at 8:30 do front chainrings normally run that much out? v5 definitely rocks more than v4 on the "hard" concrete !
No, I think it's tied to the BB issue causing the weird noises. Gonna take it all apart later this week.
Glad to hear that running changes for reliability are on recent 2018 models --- I literally just unboxed my third 2018 unit. Both of my earlier units died the same way with no power/speed. My second one was also super noisy. A pain, but Wahoo's customer service was really good both times.
My Wahoo Bolt had a small blemish in the screen and I got ahold of their tech support, they sent another one right away once I sent mine back, Seemed like awesome service, they even let me choose a different colored one for the new one.
the Wahoo support is really good. Just wish their kickr's wouldn't go faulty so often. Am on my third one in the 2 year warranty.
Enjoyed the review as always. Oh the joys of bottom brackets. Wouldn't be a press fit would it ?
Maybe you could do a review of options available on the market ? Are your chainrings straight? The clip makes them look bent or are they oval ?
Indeed, pressfit. Sigh. I hate bottom brackets. Will take it all apart later this week.
@@Dcrainmaker are the chainrings ok ?
@@markstone5390 I suspect so, it's not that old a unit. I seems to have more play than it should this week. In looking down on it, there's clearly some lateral wiggle occuring. I'm not really a BB expert. Usually I just replace it and call it done.
Interesting, I guess when Wahoo says the tilt is 5 degrees total, they’re not joking, so it’s likely just tilt 2.5deg on one direction which pretty much looks like what’s shown in the video. I would think the reason why Wahoo didn’t make it go further is for compatibility with the Kickr Climb as tilt it further and you could really topple. Though perhaps this extra degree of movement is all what’s needed to improve the feel on the trainer for long rides without feeling like you’re rear end is bolted on a hard surface?
It's about time to consider some hipmobility exercise Ray.
Probably!
Big dogs and their hips…
I’ve just bought one of these. Everything I own is pretty much Garmin, I cannot figure out a way to get my heart rate on any apps on my Apple TV or my iPad :(. I am using a Garmin HRM which i believe is Ant+ (Had it a few years) I assumed that the Garmin would talk to the kickr and the kickr would broadcast to the apple device, but it seems it doesn’t, it just talks to the apple device. How is ant+ / Bluetooth still an issue with anything not Garmin?? Can I just get it all to talk to my Garmin 820 instead and upload to training peaks that way? I really don’t want to have to fork out for a new HRM again, I had to give up with my Polar one years ago because that wouldn’t talk to any of my Garmin stuff!
Strictly speaking the HRM's dont talk to the kickr itself (what would it do with the data?). If you're on something like Zwift, then use the companion app to link all your stuff together. I use Zwift through Apple TV and its the companion app that links it all together. Just make sure that Apple TV is also on wifi if using that
Top review may be tempted to get the feet adapters or tennis balls 🤔🤔
So what you're telling me is I need a tennis ball vs AXIS feet video?!?
That would actually be pretty cool 😉
Thanks for the video. So now extra sensors are needed? Just the heart rate sensor? The Wahoo Kickr gives power, speed, and cadence on its own while giving the right resistance?
Correct, when I'm Zwifting, I just now need the heart rate sensor. The kickr does all the other stats and the resistance (in ERG mode)
great review, as always.
Thanks!
When looking at the video from the rear, a lot of the play seems to be in the frame of the kickr itself, not in the feet. Both old feet and new feet showed a decent amount of flex overall, despite the new feet visibly compressing much more than the old feet.
Is a test on the hardwood floor of an apartment with sound measurement from the unit below out of the question?
Also plagued by wireless dropouts. Sufferfest always has far fewer dropouts than Zwift.
Just gonna say that my technical issues with my kicker (purchased in December of 2019) seem to be more of a Zwift thing than anything else. I've definitely noticed a huge issue with power surges (like, I can feel my effort spiking dramatically compared to the numbers on screen). Would connecting my Vector3 pedals get a much smoother power response on races (and fewer/no dropouts when connecting to Zwift)?
I like the feel of the kickr, but overall I'm kickng myself for not getting a different smart trainer.
Unfortunately I don't have any people I know with two-level wooden floor apartments at this point. Maybe soon...
If your using Bluetooth and have the option on a windows machine id def reccomend a good ant+ adapter
Hey Dc Rainmaker love your videos, big fan! While testing the Wahoo Kickr v5 did you have any issues with compatibility with the Canyon ultimate cf sl?? I have a Canyon Ultimate CF SLX and It says it's not compatible with the kickr.. do you have a solution maybe or a recomendation what to do? I've seen some that put washers or grind away a few milimiters from the wahoo kickr.. thanks in advance for the response :) Keep up the good work!
DC Rainmaker , thanks you for your review. I am conducting research on which smart trainer I will purchase. At this time it is between the Wahoo Kicker and Tac X neo. But the question I have or you is...........what is your thought on using a carbon fiber frame “I have a Scott foil” I’ve read it’s not recommended by some bike manufacturers.
Great in-depth review as always. Have you thought of winding the feet all the way in? The central foot appears to have a chamfer “v” profile between the grey and black material (are they different density rubber/plastic?) allowing the trainer to tip from side to side. With the outer feet wound all the way out, the outriggers are effectively taking proportionally more load, preventing the trainer from rocking. Im wondering if you wound in the outrigger feet, would it allow the central foot to take the weight and the outriggers to absorb the rock when you’re desired amount of “rock” is reached?
Yeah, I played a bit. If I pulled the feet in a bit, then I got rocking, but only because I was airgapped on both sides.So more bouncing than compression. In my case, I put the feet out all the way till they touched the ground solidly on both sides, which is supposed to be how it works. And, on concrete it does absorb more for sure.
I still don't get why they just didn't do a USB port so you could plug direct into your computer?
if you could recommend 1 trainer, which would you choose? Just cause it's more expensive make it better?
Is your chainring bent? Also are you going to cover the new found Neo 2T "Issue" found this week?
Is there any noise issue again? Do I need to send it back again and again? The nightmare is happened repeatedly on my Kickr 4. I don't trust them and I won't recommend Wahoo's prodcut to my friends anymore.
Am I crazy or is your chain ring bent? When looking at it from the back while showing the Axis feature it looks like the chain ring has one side that isn't straight.
How do you feel about the 2020 kickr vs the Tacx neo T2? Which one do you like better when comparing both?
I also want to know this
Are you going to release a 12 speed version of Shimano? I think this model is not compatible
It’d be great if Wahoo worked on their naming conventions. 🤦♂️
Also, over 900 watt sprint and you look super relaxed at 250. Dang, your biking is coming along 👏
@@mlegrand One of these days I'll break 1,000w. I mean, for realz, not just when a trainer over-commits. :)
A 911 is still a 911 :)
More impressed by the power high power you pushed without hearing you suffer.......
He his a 900 watt sprint for 8 seconds hardly something to tire over lol
How does the noise and vibration compares to the Tacx Neo (any decibel figures?)? And how does it compare with it in terms of pedaling smoothness?
Tried a Tacx Neo and it was fine, now doing some research about this Kickr 5 for the upcoming indoor season ;)
Why did they use an RJ11 port / chipset vs. an actual RJ45 network chipset? I'm curious why they did this from an engineering perspective.
It was faster to get through manufacturing to hit this timeframe/cycle/dates.
Great review, thanks you
If the price is the same, which one, this Kickr or Neo2T is better for reliability, tech support and fast response in ERG?...
A question, how do you brake to stop the rear part? Because you can’t use the bike brakes...
Brilliant run down on the Wahoo kicker, exactly the information i was looking for. I am interested to know if you made a similar tutorial on the Tacx Neo 2 im looking for a smart trainer and was wondering which one to go for so keen to see how the Tacx preform, noise level glitches if there are any and performance. i heard their customers service is not the best, is there any truth to this rumor? I am interested in dimensions of widths for both trainers when legs open as i have limited floor space. Can you help? Many thanks
Hi! Do you know if this version simulates different types of Roads?
For the wired connectivity, I’m thinking also for using the Kickr in situations like a spin gym or e-racing as you’ll have multiple Kickrs and you might have interference issues or linking annoyances. Not sure why they don’t just use Ethernet cable as it’s thicker and should prove more durable and able to do more things in the future
Definitely, lots of potential there.
Yeah, this seems like a bizarre decision for them to have made. Like... why introduce the need for an adapter that people are going to have to pay for when you could have just used an ethernet cable. It's so silly.
I'm guessing the next kickr circa 2022 will have this and it will be 'revolutionary'.
Well it's more than just "using an Ethernet cable." It requires an Ethernet adapter, with an onboard processor, MAC address, and other networking elements. I agree with the value of this, but I'm pointing out that there may have been constraints with size power and integration that didn't make sense given a projected low demand for that feature. To keep costs down and reliability up, they would want to reduce physical interfaces not expand them.
Just picked mine up and done a couple of rides on New York. With zwift settings at MAX I have found that the resistance feels a bit wavy or grabby. This is when the gradient is not changing, feel it at 5%, 8% and up (to 17%). Anybody else experience this?
There was no way they could fit a RJ45 connector there that is couple of mm wider than RJ11. Sure, option to sell a $99.99 adapter is a better option.
Hi DC Rainmaker, great vid, thx for that, short question re clearance. On my Taxc Neo 1 I cant ride in gear one as the cage on my 11 speed C is touching the plastic of the Neo. It looks that the Kickr V5 doesnt have the issue, can you confirm ? Same if you have disc brakes. Seen brakes touching the plastic cover too (currently not an issue for me as I have Rim Bs).
Hi Ray, great video as all of them! i’m an owner of the Kikr 2018; i was about to buy the new Trek Emonda 2021 and i’ve just red wahoo says Kikr is not compatible with new emonda. how you see this? do you think wahoo will implement something? thanks
i would call wahoo pandemic quarantine version :D
Man the rj11 instead of rj45 is puzzling
Will there be a firmware update to older Kickrs to do away with the spin down?
That would be nice, I'm thinking even if it were possible, would Wahoo actually do it and potentially lose sales of the new Kickr. Then again, would someone buy a new Kickr (if they had the v4) just so they wouldn't have to perform a spindown?
@@daveb5375 I fall in that category. I have the V4, but I’m not about to spend the money on a V5 just to not have to do a spin down once a week.
@@paulinfrancis I know what you mean. I have the V4 also and the only reason I'd get a V5 is if / when this one dies (I'm actually on my 4th in 2 years) and the warranty is about to expire in December 2020. The V5 will need to be practically bulletproof for me to think about dropping not an insignificant amount of cash on it. But then again I also know people that have gone through multiple Tacx Neos. You'd think for the premium price tag the quality of these things would be so much better
Not having a go ,this seems to happen on reviews with new equipment,first thing I want to know is the price
Hi I have the Rapid Axle Tech thru axle, will this work for the kickr?
Any idea why my new 2020 Kickr suddenly locks up? Riding Zwift the resistance fluctuates from nothing at all spinning out to too difficult to turn the cranks. It just started doing this the other day. Workouts in ERG mode, everything is fine. It's the free rides or races when the thing seizes up. And this is my second v5 from Wahoo (the first one had a rattling flywheel). Totally disgusted. Amazing Wahoo is still having issue with their trainers.
Hi would the old kickr feet work the the new v5 I don't like any movement i feel like it messes up my power coming from a a kickr core
Does this do a pedaling efficiency score like the WATT bike?
Do you know if Wahoo has stated if running this trainer hardwired will resolve the current issue with Wahoo trainers not being able to operate in the same room as each other ( due to excessive signal interference)?
As an aside, this would be an interesting thing to add/evaluate in general reviews ( which brands can/can't operate next to another smart trainer) , as this fact was only advertised after contacting the Wahoo help line.
There's no issues with Wahoo trainers and interference. I've been to countless events with a dozen Wahoo trainers in the room without issue. ANT+ & BLE have their own unique ID's. I'm honestly not sure what on earth Wahoo support is talking about there (since they regularly hold events themselves with Zwift and other platforms...well...pre-COVID anyway).
Thanks, great video! I tried to change out the feet caps but only managed to yank off the rubber part. How do you change those? Also, my Kickr seems fairly loud, so I guess “quiet” is in the ears of the hearer. Some have suggested changing the cassette to a Shimano to reduce noise. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Another awesome video Ray! I am thinking of upgrading to eTap AXS 12 speed group set. Have you tried this on the kicker and what adjustments are required? Thanks and keep up the great work!
I haven't tried that, as I don't have an AXS bike (just a regular 11sp eTAP bike). That said, you'd simply need the Wahoo XD/XDR freehub (I think $59), and then a normal 12-speed AXS cassette. Quick and easy to swap.
DC Rainmaker thanks so much for your quick response. Keep up the great work. Best- Fraser
Would you recommend the Tacx Neo T2 or the new Kickr, based on your experience? Looking to upgrade my old trainer, and is indecisive between the two. Both seem to have their flaws and strengths.
neo 2t have a bearing issue....search for it and youll see a great video. I was in the same boat as you and now for sure not getting the neo 2t. Itll be kickr or H3 for cheaper for me.
Cheers buddy! I just purchased the Kickr v5 yesterday actually. Did some more research and found that the 2T had too many flaws for me.
Very good review, i get a little lost with the data at the end is the over surge a real bad thing? would you recommend buying or is my money better somewhere else. stay well cheers
Not a major bad thing, but not ideal either. Sorta if one of your car windows got stuck 1cm from the top while trying to close. Probably not the end of the world, but not ideal if it dumps out. I suspect they'll get it sorted in short order.
Great video thank you! Are you going to do an in-depth review on the new Wattbike Atom Next Gen?
Yup! Just waiting on final firmware to fix some ERG mode issues I'm having.
Question, the % accuracy claims regarding power. What is this in reference to? Is it compared to some standardised test that all manufacturers adhere to and can perform? Or is just marketing claims with no real solid scientific basis. For example if you had a weight scale and said it was 99% accurate that should be against the international standard of what 1kg is. Is this
Wondering if they went RJ11 just to make *sure* folks didn't immediately assume it was a native ethernet port...
It sounds like the manuf/engineering cost was simpler there.
All the Spare RJ11 Mod heads lying around the manufacturers warehouse. “F*@! it, let’s get rid of these things”...lol
Is the pad at the back too solid therefore reducing the ability of the legs to compress?
Cool review. @dc_rainmaker what is that speaker / traffic light looking device in the corner of the room with the green, red, and yellow smiley faces?
Hey; is there a way to avoid the bike moving forward during a hard sprint? Feels like some of my cyclist friends don’t have this problem. Is there a way to adjust the kickr axis feet so my bike doesn’t advanced into the Tv wall when I’m doing 800w for 15s? Thanks
I use a front wheel brace that has a rubber bottom and also unscrew the feet a little so they brace the trainer on the floor better. Mine doesn’t move an inch.
Still and always a fan
I am having issues with my new Kickr 2020. Already got the first unit replaced because of terrible humming noise/ vibrations. Now the replacement one is a lot better, but still makes audible humming noises and even worse the whole bike is vibrating every second or so. Really is tiring to feel through hands/ feet after half an hour or so. Coming from an original NEO I never had issues like that. Wahoo has not been responding for a week or so. Anybody else experiencing vibration/ noises with their new Kickr?
I am having the same problems with my kickr. But i havent got a new one or so. I raplaced Almost everything on the bike, but vibrations still there. Most on high gears
My second replacement is on they way - hope this one will work properly.
My third Kickr 2020 arrived a few days ago and I just got to test it for the first time. While it seems to be the quietest so far at warm up power, the issues are about the same while more intense training. I can instantly reproduce the worst sound/ vibration by dropping the cadence to around 60 and 150 watts and above. Overall the vibration I can feel on the bike is similar. Just the audible part differs to the other ones. No idea what to do now. Wahoo acknowledges the issues. But replacing it over and over does not fix it. I am an idiot for having sold the Neo...
Will a fw update enable auto calibration in 2018 Kicker?
I haven't heard anything yet.
I currently have a first Gen kickr which has been rinsed for about 80k km, so its started to feel really sluggish and the accuracy seems to have nosedived when I test it against my various powermeters (power is down by 20-30w compared to my 2 separate stages powermeters).. how much of a difference am i going to see upgrading to the V5 Kickr?
Hey @DCRainmaker you probably want to test Zwift in ERG mode as well, I’m pretty sure you’ll see the low cadence issue there as well as I have seen in my Kickr ‘18. Probably is Zwift rather than Wahoo that needs to fix the low latency issue? What do you think ?
Yup, I tested ERG mode pretty extensively, check out my full written review. It’s a Wahoo issue.
DC Rainmaker I just got a new Kickr v5 and it’s defective straight out the box. The flywheel is untrue and rubbing the base. I’m contacting Wahoo to get a replacement 😒
One question. If this Kickr v5 is essentially the culmination of months of refinement, so an evolution, not a revolution, and the internals are essentially the same, then will the Kickr18 be getting a firmware update to include the autocalibration support that this v5 / 2020 model has?
I was wondering the same thing, but in terms of why the accuracy is suddenly so brutal in sim mode on this one if it's essentially the same as the "improved" Kickr18--is the auto-calibration throwing things off?
I'm really hoping they push a firmware update to do just that on the Kickr18. Not sure how that'd affect sales of the newer device, but it does look like most of the hardware from Kickr18 is used on this new V5, apart from the feet being included with a V5 purchase. With the Kickr18 and V5 prices being the same, you're effectively then just getting the new feet for free. So they shouldn't be creating a big Excess & Obsolete inventory problem and that firmware update would surely also restore some lost confidence in the Wahoo brand for those that have had warranty issues to deal with.
@@aiyaaz1
I don't think there are many kickr '18's in stock in most places anymore. I'm semi hoping that places try to clear them out though for the v5. Would be a good way to get a unit.
@@rishabhphukan8339 yeah definitely should be some deals to be had on Kickr18 units. I have one and love it. It is a very solid trainer and I feel no need to "upgrade" to V5 to be honest.
@@aiyaaz1
My lbs has some. I'll ask!
Awesome review Ray. Now where can we get that rad shirt?
Thanks! Here ya go (though, the sizing shown on Amazon seems weird right now): amzn.to/2JLPJbe
I got the kickr v5. And its reading 20 watts lower than the kickr core. And 10 watts lower than quarq power meter. I hope I just got a messed up one..
Depending on the exact wattage, 10w lower than the Quarq would likely make sense due to drivetrain losses.
@@Dcrainmaker do you know specifically if the core reads higher than the v5?
@@yechielchli6769 No difference there.
How does this trainer compare to a legacy Elite Real Turbo Muin in terms of feel? What is the current fastest responding trainer for erg mode intervals on zwift?
Not even in the same league - this is so much better.
@@Dcrainmaker H3 or Kickr20 for ERG mode in Zwift?
Off topic, but is that Wattbike Atom V2 review you teased weeks back coming soon?
Daryl Mackie Yeh I’m interested to see that too
Yup - I'm waiting on a substantial firmware update to fix some ERG mode issues I can't get around. But, I might drop an audio video till then.
@@Dcrainmaker Thanks Ray - looking forward to it!
How do I set up power match on the wahho app?? I can't seem to see that option
the use 2 rubber balls and a piece of .5" pipe for full rocker motion.don't use the factory feet
Is this Better value for the money over the kikr core?
Is there a way to figure out when a KICKR 2018 was manufactured if buying used ???
I've read that there is a way of identifying it through the serial number on the kickr. They dont seem to follow a typical format as my current one (my third) starts with 012019xxxxx (obviously not x's) which leads me to think it was made January 2019, my previous one started with 011838xxxxx which I think means it was made in either January 2018 or the 38th week of 2018 or batch 38 (in 2018)
Thank you Wahoo, no reason to update from my Kick Core saves me money :-)
Hi, no problem with your kickr core ? what about the noise ? is it enough silent to ride in apartment ? thx :)
@@STX600full Most of the noise or vibrations is coming from the drive train and not the kickr. With a perfekt drive train setup, and a good exercise mat, it should be fine, but you now how hard it is to get that ;-). And I have it now for a year with 135h, and the core is running fine. The kickr climb died after 90h and wahoo replaced it.
@@wamote6867 Thank you! Sounds like the Kickr core is a good replacement for my tacx smart flow (wheel-on HT)... Now I need to find one !