CORRECTIONS & THINGS WE MISSED: - 15:26 I meant to say the sweetness is a little higher. The 200s are definitely sweetness forward and the SSP MPs are more clinical. - Everyone may not want to do this but you can absolutely use this grinder sideways, making the rear dial a side dial and the workflow is still great (This was also mentioned by Adrian in the comments).
How can you all so quickly become my favorite coffee channel? Humorous, real, and just great reviews with details I haven't traditionally heard--but avoiding some details that I think are a little out of scope for all but the Hedricks of us. This grinder is absolutely on my list now.
I only watched this because my coffee grinder broke. After several days of obsessively watching grinder videos (of the coffee variety) I decided to get this mazzer philos. So I just had my first cup of coffee with this aptly named beast. I cannot believe it's the same coffee. It was so drastically different, in a good way, that I feel like I've discovered coffee for the first time.
Other than superior 3rd party burr support, is there any other advantage to purchasing say the Zerno/P64 over the Philos? Have you noticed any better tasting cups from either the P64 or Zerno over the Philos?
I have been a Mazzer fan ever since noticing their unique name plates on their Jollys and Majors, used in our local cafe (they make good espresso, too). They do make the Mazzer Mini by the way, which is aimed at the home market, but that grinder seems to have gotten left behind in the conversation, after the recent huge influx of other international players. Still, I love the design and robustness of their grinders. I hope this one is successful for them. Thanks for your thoughts on this one!
The mini isn't aimed at the home market, it's aimed at small cafes and for larger ones for decaf or b-options. The mini isn't that popular in the home market anymore because it wasn't designed for the home and the newer players make grinders that are way better optimised for home-use. I had one for years but it just doesn't work well in the home at least nowhere near as well as modern single dose grinder
Thanks Tom! Yeah it's a company that's built a really good reputation. The mini while found in some homes I would say still fits better in a small and definitely feels outdated in today's landscape of single dosing grinders. I'm definitely curious to see how it's received by home enthusiasts, given how saturated the market is.
@@aramse The dosered Minis were never meant for the home, but the doserless models were. They admittedly have quite a bit of dead space in the chamber, that is right. But the grinder itself is robust and high-quality. I would compare the Mazzer Mini E to the Rocket Fausto, which is also a home grinder. At least those are my thoughts on it. But no matter how you slice it, it’s a nice company that crafts stately grinders.
I had owned a Mazzer Mini for 17 years (and I bought it secondhand). It had never missed a beat and could have lasted my whole coffee journey. It wasn't perfect, mainly from a workflow point of view but there were lots of modders out there providing ways of improving the design. I converted it into a single doser for the last couple of years and then finally took the plunge into a dedicated single dose grinder and bought a Timemore Sculptor 078S. The Timemore shows that progress has been made over these years - adjusting grind setting is much easier, it is quicker to grind and is much quieter with less ground retention. I haven't noticed a massive taste difference so far, but the Timemore certainly fits my needs better. The Mazzer Philos certainly has its own charm in an over engineered, brutalist kind of way but seems pricey compared to its competition.
6:58 That's exactly what most grinder manufacturers are missing, they don't design the auger in conjunction with the burrs. Kudos to Mazzer for thinking that through and testing them in combination! those 200D higher clarity burrs are definitely interesting, I'm curious how they'll perform on other grinders too.
Ben, for the price this an amazing grinder - looking forward to your Rants. For once the UK gets a product earlier than the USA (key is now for sale!). great service from Mazzer buying direct.
@aramse Why does everyone say the adjustment dial is on the back. It works just great with the adjust dial at right side. Switch directly in front of me . Catch cup at left. Sits at the back of the workbench next to acs evo mk2, blending in perfectly colour wise. Unfortunately i cant add a photo here to show how it should be the way to use it not front to back!! Scales and tamper etc in front of it. Catch cup earthed by the magnet and the base combined with other materials means no static issues Best grinder in this price point and way above .
I just found you guys and this is a great review. Funny in a self-deprecating way, informative and with the right amount of detail. I just smashed the Subscribe button! Keep it up. Now a review of the Casa would be timely! ;)
According to Mazzer, the plate is actually foreseen to be a replacement, and it will be available as a spare part. Since i did not want it to be scratched, I covered the plate with adhesive conducting tape. I switched from a DF64 Gen1 and i love the Philos.
Great review! I'm pretty new to the speciality coffee world and I currently only own a 1zpresso k-max which I have been using for a little over a year. I enjoy the cups, but sometimes I wish I had an electric grinder especially when I'm making 4 double espresso shots in a row for family. I drink around 90% light roast filter coffee, 5% medium roast espresso, 5% milk based drinks. The philos is on my shortlist because I do love the build quality and the workflow. I see that you also reviewed the 1zpresso K-MAX. If I may ask; how would you compare the two taste wise?
My and my Philos did Like Your review and agree on Most of Your Points 😝 Got the i200d burrs and had a p64 before, i got bored of the p64 and hated the Static (and rdt) with rdt the beans Always got stuck and Made it a pain to use. With the auger of the Philos and no need for rdt im so Happy! The burrs create awesome modern light roast Espresso and the Haptic is amazing (except the cheap ass knocker 😅 ) For Filter i prefer my 078 and it isnt even Close imo! Im so glad that mazzer nailed the Philos and understand the Market, im Really looking Forward to the next new Releases 🥳
@@aramse Damn I was really hoping this would do great on filter too. I have already ordered mine. I have never tried the 78 but It has gotten alot of praise. Would you say the 78 is better than the ditting burrs for filter? Also how do the 78 differ from the i200D on filter?
@@aramse Hello. Please tell me how do you grind coffee beans in 078 for v60? At which click, what is the rotation speed, slow feed or not, do you tap the dust into the trash or into the grinding?
@@Persason tbh the 200s are really good on filter and very sweetness forward, which is great. As for the 78 vs the Ditting I haven't tried them but comparing to the SSP LS V2 I prefer the 78. More clarity but not fractured like the MPs and juicier brews. It's hard to describe really but if you had say 5 ingredients the 78 puts them together in the the most pleasing way to my palate.
Thank you for the awesome review! I am very curious between this grinder and the Lagom P64. I see a lot of reviews talking about how you can taste a difference with 83 mm birds, but since I am coming from an old conical grinder, everything‘s going to be a massive improvement so I’m trying to narrow down what segment of flat burr grinder I want to go with. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks!
I would have bought the Zerno but between the wait time/availability and living in Germany it's really not an option for me, especially considering how much more customs would bump up the cost to basically $2,000.And buying SSPs for the Philos is still a way better deal. Not that the Z1 isn't an absolutely stunner but yeah 🤷♂ So I'm waiting for my Philos to come with baited breath. Hoping it compares to the Ditting KR804 which I owned before I left the US.
First time I've come across your channel. Very insightful analysis and easy to understand. Just bought a df64 v2 3 months ago but nothing wrong with watching you play with a grinder that makes me suffer buyer's remorse haha. Love your sense of humour too, liked and subscribed. Coffee connoisseur living in Hanoi, Vietnam, and yes I also watch Hoffmann, Hedricks, Sprometheus etc.
@aramse Excellent review, thanks! I've been playing around with my Philos for a week now and still not sure how I feel about the burrs (i200d). So I was wondering, if I swap to SPP Cast (not fan of MP) or Ode gen 2 (loved the burrs, hated the grinder), is alignment mandatory? Thanks!
RDT is definitely not required. WDT is a habit i cant shake (!) although it seems to help channelling . i fundamentally do not like the idea or RDT some grinders really do need it. (I have a weber key for sale if anyone is looking in the UK!) This definitely doesn't need RDT despite what you may have heard some "Influencer(S)" on different videos rambling on about along with lack of plasma generators. It definitely doesn't need one of those or even and ion generator for that matter which would be more fitting!. I purchased the Philos after reading so many good reviews on coffeetime forum. Its definitely well thought out and well worth the asking price. At the time i did not realise i was in the market for another grinder!! beware if you are in the UK. Make sure you purchase direct from Mazzer or you can easily be paying 50 to 80 percent price increase from some genuine looking web sites. cant name here, just be careful and trust Mazzer. great customer service and delivery from them as well.
Great video! I love your deadpan humor as well. 😀 I roast at home with the Kaffelogic Nano 7, and I think the Philos would be perfect for cafes with roasteries, where they need to single dose many coffees and trial roasts for cupping. Being able to quickly clean it between different beans reduces cross contamination is great, and it can do double duty on the counter for serving single origins and decafs, alongside a hopper filled with the house blend. I can hardly wait for it to arrive in the US. BTW, check out the Kaffelogic if you can. I could replace every piece of espresso gear that I own with some similar product and be happy, but the Nano 7 is the only home roaster that checks all the boxes for me. It’s worth a review. (I’m just a happy customer and I’m not affiliated with them.)
For sure. The ease of opening up and cleaning it quickly while maintaining grind size is great for cafes. Also I've heard great things about the nano 7. Roasting is something that I've consciously stayed away from cuz I don't think I have the time to get into another rabbit hole. haha.
Fortunately, roasting is not a money rabbit hole, but it does take some time, especially at first. Yes, the roaster is an up-front investment, but it cuts bean cost to about 25% for specialty coffee here in the US. With two people and four espressos a day, we paid it off in less than a year as an early backer. Regarding time, I needed a few months to develop my process. I’ll buy one kg of a new bean, make iterative 80g roasts, and do two or three cuppings. If it doesn’t “sing”, I’ll move on. If it does, I buy 5kg and give it a name. To make more, I do 160g batches (get the BOOST ring), and I can just put in the coffee, hit Play, and go about my business for the next 15 minutes. The Nano 7 is great in that it is electric, vents well under a standard kitchen hood, lets you program it or use stock profiles, and is 100% hands off for “production”. Clean up is just a matter of dumping the chaff into the garbage can. The quality is excellent, the repeatability is virtually perfect, and I get coffee roasted just as I like it. There is definitely an up-front investment of time and money, but now I get amazing coffee for about $5 a bag in about the same time that I would spend driving to the local roasters. Cheers!
I wonder if the catch cup from thie Philos would fit well under a Timemore Sculptor 078/078s. Do all the grinds tend to fall out without sticking to bottom/sides?
Great review! Always love the clear and concise way you communicate info. For fruit forward coffee, are you seeing significant performance gains between the 078s vs the philos? Wondering how much the auger gains in the cup
They present different profiles. The 78 is more punchy, jucier, clearer and just overall more cohesive. The 200 are more gentle, sweetness forward, good clarity and much nicer texture than the SSP MPs if you've tried those. TBH one would be happy with either. Also there are certain funky coffees that are just too intense on the 78 and the 200s tame them better. I'm not big on the funk but if that's something you're into then you may lean towards the 200s. As for the auger, both grinders have them and both seem to have a significant impact in the cup but the 78 definitely does more pre-breaking.
In terms of build quality and workflow absolutely yes. In the cup it depends on the burrs. If you're using the same burr set on both grinders then the Philos cups would have a little more clarity because of the auger.
@ Thanks for the reply! Were you able to compare the stock DF64 stock DLC burrs with the I200D burrs? Just wondering if the grinder is worth double the price of the DF64.
It looks really nice and Mazzer quality and support are well known, but for the money the Zerno just seems better overall. In addition to the SSP in the box, you get a smaller footprint, blind burrs, and a pre-breaker which are important to me. However, I would venture to guess that the Mazzer can will be delivered much faster, I've heard it can be rough trying to get a Z1. I haven't tried either one, however (maybe some day...) but would you say one has better build quality over the other?
3:49 Even just (but not only!) these subtle jokes make it worth watching your videos! 😂 3:57 “will grind happily chew through green beens for the connoisseur who enjoys their coffee raw” 😂 5:42 😂 10:21 “I take no responsibility if you taste notes of stainless steel in your next brew” 🤣 Etc etc.
Mazzer du make quality products that take some serious beating, but 64mm that are fine doesn’t entirely pull out the sort of dept and complexity of larger burr, I tried a large range of them and generally those are harder dial in than bigger, especially for light roast. I do think the price is high but not unreasonable so, here it’s still much cheaper than P64 so I reckon it’s okay if you value build over burr size. I would have liked it to use that real estate better for larger burrs.
This maybe due to marketing, as the 64mm burr is the most common for home enthusiasts, and I can see them make a interchangeable larger burr carrier. Its a possibility...And a smart move on their part if they did plan for that. You keep the grinder and maybe buy a carrier for a few hundred.
@@philindeblanc Unlikely, Mazzer already have another 83mm low retention grinder, I think it’s a safe bet this is why the burrs are 64 and not 83mm as not to undermine the sales of the ZM. Also no there isn’t space for a larger burr inside, what we meant by it is the grinder size is so large they could have made it with 83mm by machining the grinding chamber larger, instead they have a huge chunk of metal around it which isn’t necessary to that degree
You've sold me on this one sir! Can't wait till it becomes available in India. To put it mildly/politely, I'm wired somewhat like you when it comes to finnickiness. And, I find going for the "has no explicit deal breaker in my book" option works best for me. This is it. So: 1. THANKS! (once again) 2. Could you share a ballpark 2 cup V60 grind size number for Indian light roasts (any from BCR, QBF & BT will do) on this grinder? I know launch is probably a couple of months away, but still. 😅
Still waiting for a Zerno. In theory the slightly tighter tolerances, auger that's also a prebreaker and the blind burrs should give it a slight edge in the cup but I'll have to wait to test that.
im torn between a mazzer I189, or DF83V with ssp lab sweet burs, used for both espresso and filter coffee. I like textured and sweet coffee. there is a decent price gap between the two, which makes the mazzer I189 a good choice.
I believe the 83V with SSP LS burrs will work out more expensive than the philos. Both good options though. The SSP LS is a better all rounder than the i189D.
i agree with reddit about the rear grind adjustment. i feel like 90% of home set ups will have this flush against a wall which is going to make this awkward.
am i the only one who uses i on a worktop under a counter turned 90 degrees to how you describe. ive added a video and expect only abuse in the comments!! its unfortunate you cant add a picture in these comments. i just found it natural to place it in front of me best grinder ive had, and ive had a few, including 2 at higher price point than this one. Anyone in the uk looking for a weber key? 🙂
@@adrianmichaelsmithi guess it depends on how much space you have managed to negotiate for your ‘coffee corner’ 😅 at least a front adjustment would satisfy both scenarios !
So Zerno Z1 or the Mazzer Philos for espresso only drinkers? The Zerno offers mulit speed and auger options. You sort of imply that the Zerno would be better? In my market the price is pretty much even between the two, where you indicate that the Zerno is more money.
I’ve heard great things about the Zerno and have used it very briefly at the SCA expo. Based on that, you get an overall more refined experience and theoretically “better” or tighter particle distribution due the blind burrs, auger and rpm. So if they are the same or similar price I’d probably get the Zerno although you can’t go wrong with either.
I think it’s great except it’s missing features like anti static, bellows or knocker, blind burrs. They designed prior to that stuff from what sprometheus said. Otherwise I think it’s an amazing grinder that will last forever
It kind of has anti static if you use the stock catch cup, bellows are not really necessary as retention is very low. You can tap the hopper lid if you like. It absolutely does have a knocker that works very well and you get the dose finisher to lower retention even more. Blind burrs are missing through.
@@aramse Isnt 6 micron per click pretty bad? I am hearing .05 micron on some grinders. With such a large dial, you would think it would be more precise.
these burr comparisons are funny but i think one of the most intruiguing questions is: is there a big difference between ssp mp and $30 copy from aliexpress? thx for a great video as always!
It is amazing how much reviewers talk about so much difference between burrs...Yes, I think there are, but there are so many variables, and by the time you swap burrs, or even pull another shot, you will need to do maybe 3-4 tastes to actually know if its the burrs....and are these new burrs vs worked in burrs, and how can you even match the optimal setting and pull time to the specific bean one is using?? AND then you have ONE person tasting it...LOLOL....its such a marketing to sell burrs in my opinion.
Best ends up being about the work flow after a certain point, and the money you spend more is a diminishing return. Take the 400 DF64gen2. Bretty dam great. Can you do better? maybe. I think after a cerain point you are paying for name, finish maybe some build, and the burr hype.
I'm here just for the flavour of my espresso in the cup.... I'd pay the extra for the Zerno if it's going to give me that (by the way in my market (Canada) the Zerno isn't that much more than the Philos, and the DF83v isn't that much cheaper. Which will make the espresso I want - I lean toward the traditional Italian style but sometimes enjoy a bit fruitier style (natural Panama giesha). You talk about these alternatives without saying which produces what flavour. As purchasers we can't buy a Philos and then 2 weeks later say - darn maybe I should have got the Zerno, or maybe variable speed would let me dial my coffee in more,...
More than the grinder the burrs will dictate how your coffee tastes. Using the 189D burrs from Mazzer should give you excellent espresso in the traditional style. The Zerno is a better grinder from a build and tolerance point of view. It’s carefully manufactured in very small batches and the alignment and auger should give you some gains in the cup. It’s got a really long wait time though. Both excellent grinders with minor differences in terms of build, size and post sales support.
no, if only i could post a picture here you would see how great it is at the back of the counter, dial on the right , switch directly in front of me and feed / cup on the left.. then loads of space for scales, tamping etc in front of it.
@@adrianmichaelsmith Yeah right, put it under a kitchen cabinet and come back and say how well it works, stop defending something that is so obviously wrong, are you involved with Mazzer? My daughter is an industrial designer and the first thing she said was that whoever designs the machine must have slept in class during the first 2 years of the training!
@@dejedejsson be very careful with you accusations. you are wrong on every statement and belief. i do not work in the coffee industry or anything even loosely related to it you should apologise to Mazzer. it fits perfectly under a cabinet. have added a video just for a fool like you to see. i expect to see your ridiculous comments! There's hope that in time and with experience your daughter will develop and realise first thoughts are not always correct. there's possibly no hope for you. This is an amazing grinder at this price point.
@@IamMotionMedia Ya, I appreciate good design, like this Mazzer, but a monitor stand for a grinder...Not gonna do it! I think its the worst looking one next to the fugly Niche....but that at least has a category it shines, in, the retro style. So I give that a pass. But this is just lazy design work for the Zerno.
Sorry to me it is an overly large overstyled and ugly mess of conflicting shapes and angles, pointlessly big for a home use machine, and too small with no cooling for a commercial machine, too expensive and will not find a market for something that has so many competitors in the space.
Have you used it? Honestly it’s a very different experience in the flesh compared to images. But yeah looks are subjective and your opinion is just as valid as mine. As for how successful it’ll be we’ll have to wait and see. IMO the combo of the price and the brand actually make a very attractive option for the high end home market.
I did have a df83. Did, but this is far better. Build quality is next level in comparison. Theres no way you can say all 83mm are better than all 64mm. I still use the Duo for Decaf. That's also a great grinder.
Most of the 83s in this price bracket or below just aren't on the same level when it comes to build quality. If that's something you care about then it's not such a no brainer decision.
Im not sure if there's some official way to say what im about to say, this is aimed just at UK buyers. First though, @aramse great review. I just want to make the point that the Philos is available to purchase direct from Mazer for direct delivery to the UK. I have seen 4 or 5 retailers advertising this as in stock at prices from £1300 to £1500 . Direct price after import duty is £900. These are not scams either so my warning is simply buyer beware. they are doing nothing wrong, i guess ths is just the lottery of purchasing retail products in the UK. i've already been accused by one fool of working for Mazer. the only tenuous link i have to Mazzer is I have purchased Mazzer Philos, niche zero, niche duo, weber Key, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime, so you could say im a fan!
very typical "italian design" that it's this mix of crazy overdoing it in some materials and then having the parts that you touch every. single. time. you use it feel bad. Italian design for me means superficial instead of deeply engineered. In a cafe you usually change the grind setting a lot and want to do it quickly without needing both hands. It's a terrible design that totally misses the reality of how coffee works. Not to mention how it makes finding a spot that fits the grinder much harder. It's different for the sake of being different. Very Italian design.
Just used it in my cafe for two weeks. Works amazing. We usually offer 2 types of espresso and 2x V60. Using it mostly for those v60 or cuppings. As it’s advertised for a commercial use it’s not to huge I would say. Going smaller wouldn’t fit in that enviroment. I don’t know the coffee places you go to but I doubt you the the baristas touching the grindsetting more than 1-2x a day 🤔 (except grinding bags for customers- but that’s not where the grinder is meant for)
What a stupid thing to say. The wheel in the back is feels extremely natural after like two minutes, you'd know if you laid hands on it. It's a fantastic design, also it lets you clean and change burrs without interfering with grind setting mechanics
Then I need to pull out this tool to get no retention? How does a 400-600 grinder get this right...and its made in China, LOL. No variable spped? OK, no biggy, then plastic at the parts that we deal with daily? Hmm, I actually prefer the plastic over the stupid wood everyone uses, but a simple anodized or brushed aluminum would have been easy to do, or as in the review, better plastic. Also It does look pretty big for the home. Would hate it if its tower over my espresso machine...but thats OK if all is perfect. I dont know...Not sold. Still see the DF64gen2 or the V being well made, and 6 micron is actually a lot vs what I saw a review for...I cant remember which, but its .05 microns!! So...!?
@@philindeblanc Your 400-600€ grinder will fall apart in a year, variable speed is a gimmick which is simply not needed, the 'plastic parts' like the switch are due to food regulations, the rubber plastic on top is to avoid vibrations/dinging with the hopper, but most importantly, the Philos makes a much better cup than the DF64
CORRECTIONS & THINGS WE MISSED:
- 15:26 I meant to say the sweetness is a little higher. The 200s are definitely sweetness forward and the SSP MPs are more clinical.
- Everyone may not want to do this but you can absolutely use this grinder sideways, making the rear dial a side dial and the workflow is still great (This was also mentioned by Adrian in the comments).
SSP MPs are overhyped. Can you compare to SSP CV2?
How can you all so quickly become my favorite coffee channel? Humorous, real, and just great reviews with details I haven't traditionally heard--but avoiding some details that I think are a little out of scope for all but the Hedricks of us. This grinder is absolutely on my list now.
I only watched this because my coffee grinder broke. After several days of obsessively watching grinder videos (of the coffee variety) I decided to get this mazzer philos. So I just had my first cup of coffee with this aptly named beast. I cannot believe it's the same coffee. It was so drastically different, in a good way, that I feel like I've discovered coffee for the first time.
Which burr set do you use?
Paused and subbed the minute you said "It's a bit of a faff." A very entertaining and informative video - well done!
Other than superior 3rd party burr support, is there any other advantage to purchasing say the Zerno/P64 over the Philos? Have you noticed any better tasting cups from either the P64 or Zerno over the Philos?
I have been a Mazzer fan ever since noticing their unique name plates on their Jollys and Majors, used in our local cafe (they make good espresso, too). They do make the Mazzer Mini by the way, which is aimed at the home market, but that grinder seems to have gotten left behind in the conversation, after the recent huge influx of other international players. Still, I love the design and robustness of their grinders. I hope this one is successful for them. Thanks for your thoughts on this one!
The mini isn't aimed at the home market, it's aimed at small cafes and for larger ones for decaf or b-options.
The mini isn't that popular in the home market anymore because it wasn't designed for the home and the newer players make grinders that are way better optimised for home-use.
I had one for years but it just doesn't work well in the home at least nowhere near as well as modern single dose grinder
Thanks Tom! Yeah it's a company that's built a really good reputation. The mini while found in some homes I would say still fits better in a small and definitely feels outdated in today's landscape of single dosing grinders. I'm definitely curious to see how it's received by home enthusiasts, given how saturated the market is.
@@aramse The dosered Minis were never meant for the home, but the doserless models were. They admittedly have quite a bit of dead space in the chamber, that is right. But the grinder itself is robust and high-quality. I would compare the Mazzer Mini E to the Rocket Fausto, which is also a home grinder. At least those are my thoughts on it. But no matter how you slice it, it’s a nice company that crafts stately grinders.
I had owned a Mazzer Mini for 17 years (and I bought it secondhand). It had never missed a beat and could have lasted my whole coffee journey. It wasn't perfect, mainly from a workflow point of view but there were lots of modders out there providing ways of improving the design. I converted it into a single doser for the last couple of years and then finally took the plunge into a dedicated single dose grinder and bought a Timemore Sculptor 078S. The Timemore shows that progress has been made over these years - adjusting grind setting is much easier, it is quicker to grind and is much quieter with less ground retention. I haven't noticed a massive taste difference so far, but the Timemore certainly fits my needs better. The Mazzer Philos certainly has its own charm in an over engineered, brutalist kind of way but seems pricey compared to its competition.
no issue with helping you fund your next vacation. love the discussion on the design
6:58 That's exactly what most grinder manufacturers are missing, they don't design the auger in conjunction with the burrs. Kudos to Mazzer for thinking that through and testing them in combination! those 200D higher clarity burrs are definitely interesting, I'm curious how they'll perform on other grinders too.
Absolutely. The 200s are very promising and a lot cheaper than the SSPs. I'll be putting these in the DF64 to see how they do. Should be interesting.
Ben, for the price this an amazing grinder - looking forward to your Rants. For once the UK gets a product earlier than the USA (key is now for sale!). great service from Mazzer buying direct.
Oh my gosh!! What a wonderful sense of humor.
Love your sense of humour, Aramse :-) Have a nice weekend!
Hey thank you!
@aramse
Why does everyone say the adjustment dial is on the back.
It works just great with the adjust dial at right side. Switch directly in front of me . Catch cup at left.
Sits at the back of the workbench next to acs evo mk2, blending in perfectly colour wise.
Unfortunately i cant add a photo here to show how it should be the way to use it not front to back!!
Scales and tamper etc in front of it.
Catch cup earthed by the magnet and the base combined with other materials means no static issues
Best grinder in this price point and way above .
Haha I realised this moments after publishing the video. You can absolutely orient this grinder sideways and have full functionality.
@@aramse for 90 percent of your video you very nearly have it in that orientation on your desk :-)
I just found you guys and this is a great review. Funny in a self-deprecating way, informative and with the right amount of detail. I just smashed the Subscribe button! Keep it up. Now a review of the Casa would be timely! ;)
Awesome, thank you!
According to Mazzer, the plate is actually foreseen to be a replacement, and it will be available as a spare part. Since i did not want it to be scratched, I covered the plate with adhesive conducting tape. I switched from a DF64 Gen1 and i love the Philos.
Good to know. That is definitely on of the weak points when it comes to the overall build
Great review!
I'm pretty new to the speciality coffee world and I currently only own a 1zpresso k-max which I have been using for a little over a year. I enjoy the cups, but sometimes I wish I had an electric grinder especially when I'm making 4 double espresso shots in a row for family. I drink around 90% light roast filter coffee, 5% medium roast espresso, 5% milk based drinks. The philos is on my shortlist because I do love the build quality and the workflow. I see that you also reviewed the 1zpresso K-MAX. If I may ask; how would you compare the two taste wise?
Does 200D burr have enough body to cut through milk for medium roast blend ?
My and my Philos did Like Your review and agree on Most of Your Points 😝
Got the i200d burrs and had a p64 before, i got bored of the p64 and hated the Static (and rdt) with rdt the beans Always got stuck and Made it a pain to use. With the auger of the Philos and no need for rdt im so Happy! The burrs create awesome modern light roast Espresso and the Haptic is amazing (except the cheap ass knocker 😅 )
For Filter i prefer my 078 and it isnt even Close imo!
Im so glad that mazzer nailed the Philos and understand the Market, im Really looking Forward to the next new Releases 🥳
Agreed on both fronts. The 78 on filter is hard to beat. You need to spend a lot more $$$ do better.
@@aramse Damn I was really hoping this would do great on filter too. I have already ordered mine. I have never tried the 78 but It has gotten alot of praise. Would you say the 78 is better than the ditting burrs for filter? Also how do the 78 differ from the i200D on filter?
@@aramse Hello. Please tell me how do you grind coffee beans in 078 for v60? At which click, what is the rotation speed, slow feed or not, do you tap the dust into the trash or into the grinding?
@@Persason tbh the 200s are really good on filter and very sweetness forward, which is great. As for the 78 vs the Ditting I haven't tried them but comparing to the SSP LS V2 I prefer the 78. More clarity but not fractured like the MPs and juicier brews. It's hard to describe really but if you had say 5 ingredients the 78 puts them together in the the most pleasing way to my palate.
Can you recommend a good hand grinder for home espresso? I have delonghi dedica and timemore right not
Thank you for the awesome review! I am very curious between this grinder and the Lagom P64. I see a lot of reviews talking about how you can taste a difference with 83 mm birds, but since I am coming from an old conical grinder, everything‘s going to be a massive improvement so I’m trying to narrow down what segment of flat burr grinder I want to go with. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks!
What gring setting range do you use for espresso?
Does anyone know when this will be available in the US?
I would have bought the Zerno but between the wait time/availability and living in Germany it's really not an option for me, especially considering how much more customs would bump up the cost to basically $2,000.And buying SSPs for the Philos is still a way better deal. Not that the Z1 isn't an absolutely stunner but yeah 🤷♂
So I'm waiting for my Philos to come with baited breath.
Hoping it compares to the Ditting KR804 which I owned before I left the US.
First time I've come across your channel. Very insightful analysis and easy to understand. Just bought a df64 v2 3 months ago but nothing wrong with watching you play with a grinder that makes me suffer buyer's remorse haha. Love your sense of humour too, liked and subscribed. Coffee connoisseur living in Hanoi, Vietnam, and yes I also watch Hoffmann, Hedricks, Sprometheus etc.
Hey welcome to the channel. Glad you enjoyed the video and thank you for the sub.
@aramse
Excellent review, thanks! I've been playing around with my Philos for a week now and still not sure how I feel about the burrs (i200d). So I was wondering, if I swap to SPP Cast (not fan of MP) or Ode gen 2 (loved the burrs, hated the grinder), is alignment mandatory? Thanks!
From what I've read the cast are very similar to the i200ds bur I'd like to know too
Great review, i am happy with my Philos, but iam wondering if you found any need for WDT/RDT?
No I haven’t needed RDT. WDT will still help for distribution.
RDT is definitely not required.
WDT is a habit i cant shake (!) although it seems to help channelling .
i fundamentally do not like the idea or RDT some grinders really do need it. (I have a weber key for sale if anyone is looking in the UK!) This definitely doesn't need RDT despite what you may have heard some "Influencer(S)" on different videos rambling on about along with lack of plasma generators. It definitely doesn't need one of those or even and ion generator for that matter which would be more fitting!. I purchased the Philos after reading so many good reviews on coffeetime forum. Its definitely well thought out and well worth the asking price. At the time i did not realise i was in the market for another grinder!!
beware if you are in the UK.
Make sure you purchase direct from Mazzer or you can easily be paying 50 to 80 percent price increase from some genuine looking web sites. cant name here, just be careful and trust Mazzer. great customer service and delivery from them as well.
hello, I want to ask if it is possible to put in both philos and ssp burrs without problems?
Yes. We mention this in the review.
Is the Mazzer that good for pour over?
"I take no responsibility if you taste notes of stainless steel in your next brew". Best hahaha
Great video! I love your deadpan humor as well. 😀
I roast at home with the Kaffelogic Nano 7, and I think the Philos would be perfect for cafes with roasteries, where they need to single dose many coffees and trial roasts for cupping. Being able to quickly clean it between different beans reduces cross contamination is great, and it can do double duty on the counter for serving single origins and decafs, alongside a hopper filled with the house blend. I can hardly wait for it to arrive in the US.
BTW, check out the Kaffelogic if you can. I could replace every piece of espresso gear that I own with some similar product and be happy, but the Nano 7 is the only home roaster that checks all the boxes for me. It’s worth a review. (I’m just a happy customer and I’m not affiliated with them.)
For sure. The ease of opening up and cleaning it quickly while maintaining grind size is great for cafes. Also I've heard great things about the nano 7. Roasting is something that I've consciously stayed away from cuz I don't think I have the time to get into another rabbit hole. haha.
Fortunately, roasting is not a money rabbit hole, but it does take some time, especially at first. Yes, the roaster is an up-front investment, but it cuts bean cost to about 25% for specialty coffee here in the US. With two people and four espressos a day, we paid it off in less than a year as an early backer.
Regarding time, I needed a few months to develop my process. I’ll buy one kg of a new bean, make iterative 80g roasts, and do two or three cuppings. If it doesn’t “sing”, I’ll move on. If it does, I buy 5kg and give it a name. To make more, I do 160g batches (get the BOOST ring), and I can just put in the coffee, hit Play, and go about my business for the next 15 minutes.
The Nano 7 is great in that it is electric, vents well under a standard kitchen hood, lets you program it or use stock profiles, and is 100% hands off for “production”. Clean up is just a matter of dumping the chaff into the garbage can. The quality is excellent, the repeatability is virtually perfect, and I get coffee roasted just as I like it.
There is definitely an up-front investment of time and money, but now I get amazing coffee for about $5 a bag in about the same time that I would spend driving to the local roasters.
Cheers!
I wonder if the catch cup from thie Philos would fit well under a Timemore Sculptor 078/078s. Do all the grinds tend to fall out without sticking to bottom/sides?
I hate the sculptor catch cup, so much static
Great review! Always love the clear and concise way you communicate info.
For fruit forward coffee, are you seeing significant performance gains between the 078s vs the philos? Wondering how much the auger gains in the cup
They present different profiles. The 78 is more punchy, jucier, clearer and just overall more cohesive. The 200 are more gentle, sweetness forward, good clarity and much nicer texture than the SSP MPs if you've tried those. TBH one would be happy with either. Also there are certain funky coffees that are just too intense on the 78 and the 200s tame them better. I'm not big on the funk but if that's something you're into then you may lean towards the 200s. As for the auger, both grinders have them and both seem to have a significant impact in the cup but the 78 definitely does more pre-breaking.
@@aramse thank you so much for the response!
How would you compare this with the Timemore 078 (for filter, of course)?
THX...but, probably, I will have to wait for my 16kg 20yo major to fall apart...another decade or two...
Lol
Is this Philos a significant upgrade over the DF64gen2? Deciding if it's worth it.
In terms of build quality and workflow absolutely yes. In the cup it depends on the burrs. If you're using the same burr set on both grinders then the Philos cups would have a little more clarity because of the auger.
@ Thanks for the reply! Were you able to compare the stock DF64 stock DLC burrs with the I200D burrs? Just wondering if the grinder is worth double the price of the DF64.
Do the I200D burrs fit any other grinders and did you try them anywhere else?
They fit fine in the DF64 and the ode but you need the smaller Mazzer oring which I'm sure you can request for when you place the order.
Please make a video on the EG1 by Weber Workshop? Your thoughts and expertise are so needed! Thanks. Really love and admire your work 🫶
We'd need some more Patreon funds to justify buying one just from review. Haha. I will see if we can get one on loan.
Excellent review!
Thank you
Nice to see reviews starting to pour in. Very happy with my Philos so far.
Which burrs did you get and do you use it mostly for espresso or filter?
It looks really nice and Mazzer quality and support are well known, but for the money the Zerno just seems better overall. In addition to the SSP in the box, you get a smaller footprint, blind burrs, and a pre-breaker which are important to me. However, I would venture to guess that the Mazzer can will be delivered much faster, I've heard it can be rough trying to get a Z1.
I haven't tried either one, however (maybe some day...) but would you say one has better build quality over the other?
Does the i200 burrs fit on df64?
Also interested to know this
Yup fits perfectly but you will need to request Mazzer to ship their o rings as the ones that come with the DF are a bit too tall.
@@aramsecan you please tell me for which thing I have to ask specifically? Do you maybe have a link to that o ring ? I’m a noob…lol 😅
when can i purchase this? it just says coming soon and can't pre order
I think they plan t slowly release to other countries as stock becomes available....
The way it’s being reviewed, says a lot about you being an industrial designer.
3:49 Even just (but not only!) these subtle jokes make it worth watching your videos! 😂
3:57 “will grind happily chew through green beens for the connoisseur who enjoys their coffee raw” 😂
5:42 😂
10:21 “I take no responsibility if you taste notes of stainless steel in your next brew” 🤣
Etc etc.
Mazzer du make quality products that take some serious beating, but 64mm that are fine doesn’t entirely pull out the sort of dept and complexity of larger burr, I tried a large range of them and generally those are harder dial in than bigger, especially for light roast. I do think the price is high but not unreasonable so, here it’s still much cheaper than P64 so I reckon it’s okay if you value build over burr size. I would have liked it to use that real estate better for larger burrs.
This maybe due to marketing, as the 64mm burr is the most common for home enthusiasts, and I can see them make a interchangeable larger burr carrier. Its a possibility...And a smart move on their part if they did plan for that. You keep the grinder and maybe buy a carrier for a few hundred.
@@philindeblanc Unlikely, Mazzer already have another 83mm low retention grinder, I think it’s a safe bet this is why the burrs are 64 and not 83mm as not to undermine the sales of the ZM.
Also no there isn’t space for a larger burr inside, what we meant by it is the grinder size is so large they could have made it with 83mm by machining the grinding chamber larger, instead they have a huge chunk of metal around it which isn’t necessary to that degree
For me, this is the one.
You've sold me on this one sir! Can't wait till it becomes available in India.
To put it mildly/politely, I'm wired somewhat like you when it comes to finnickiness. And, I find going for the "has no explicit deal breaker in my book" option works best for me.
This is it. So:
1. THANKS! (once again)
2. Could you share a ballpark 2 cup V60 grind size number for Indian light roasts (any from BCR, QBF & BT will do) on this grinder? I know launch is probably a couple of months away, but still. 😅
I’m usually around 70-90 for a v60
How does it compare to the Zerno ?
Still waiting for a Zerno. In theory the slightly tighter tolerances, auger that's also a prebreaker and the blind burrs should give it a slight edge in the cup but I'll have to wait to test that.
I hate the look of the Zerno. Last thing I want is a mac monitor on my coffee bar.
2:16 Things can’t get too nerdy as far as I’m concerned 🤓
im torn between a mazzer I189, or DF83V with ssp lab sweet burs, used for both espresso and filter coffee. I like textured and sweet coffee. there is a decent price gap between the two, which makes the mazzer I189 a good choice.
I believe the 83V with SSP LS burrs will work out more expensive than the philos. Both good options though. The SSP LS is a better all rounder than the i189D.
I'm just sitting here, looking at my Niche Zero and asking myself if I need to replace it😅
I had 3 perfectly good grinders...... The Philos is in pride of place now.
I am here, thinking exactly the same
well for obscure places there are wingnut drivers
i agree with reddit about the rear grind adjustment. i feel like 90% of home set ups will have this flush against a wall which is going to make this awkward.
am i the only one who uses i on a worktop under a counter turned 90 degrees to how you describe.
ive added a video and expect only abuse in the comments!!
its unfortunate you cant add a picture in these comments.
i just found it natural to place it in front of me
best grinder ive had, and ive had a few, including 2 at higher price point than this one. Anyone in the uk looking for a weber key? 🙂
@@adrianmichaelsmithi guess it depends on how much space you have managed to negotiate for your ‘coffee corner’ 😅 at least a front adjustment would satisfy both scenarios !
So Zerno Z1 or the Mazzer Philos for espresso only drinkers? The Zerno offers mulit speed and auger options. You sort of imply that the Zerno would be better? In my market the price is pretty much even between the two, where you indicate that the Zerno is more money.
I’ve heard great things about the Zerno and have used it very briefly at the SCA expo. Based on that, you get an overall more refined experience and theoretically “better” or tighter particle distribution due the blind burrs, auger and rpm. So if they are the same or similar price I’d probably get the Zerno although you can’t go wrong with either.
Nice pot shot at the green bean grinder testers, " who like their coffee raw"... pearler!
Suggestion: get a dial indicator to test for alignment and dynamic stability. These cant be reviewed by just playing around with the grinder.
Any chance you’ll review the EK43?
Would love to. We need to try and get a hold of one
I AM AWARE I NEED HELP TOO :P SUPER VIDEO
I saw "The Beast" caption and automatically assumed Daigo of FGC fame was grinding coffee...slightly dissapointed by the video...
lol. Sorry to disappoint.
“I don’t know what that says about me …, so let’s just move on.”
I think it’s great except it’s missing features like anti static, bellows or knocker, blind burrs. They designed prior to that stuff from what sprometheus said. Otherwise I think it’s an amazing grinder that will last forever
It kind of has anti static if you use the stock catch cup, bellows are not really necessary as retention is very low. You can tap the hopper lid if you like. It absolutely does have a knocker that works very well and you get the dose finisher to lower retention even more. Blind burrs are missing through.
@@aramse Isnt 6 micron per click pretty bad? I am hearing .05 micron on some grinders. With such a large dial, you would think it would be more precise.
Stop wearing skinny jeans da. Nice review!
If it was
these burr comparisons are funny but i think one of the most intruiguing questions is: is there a big difference between ssp mp and $30 copy from aliexpress?
thx for a great video as always!
I'm pretty sure Lance would have tested that. Haha.
It is amazing how much reviewers talk about so much difference between burrs...Yes, I think there are, but there are so many variables, and by the time you swap burrs, or even pull another shot, you will need to do maybe 3-4 tastes to actually know if its the burrs....and are these new burrs vs worked in burrs, and how can you even match the optimal setting and pull time to the specific bean one is using?? AND then you have ONE person tasting it...LOLOL....its such a marketing to sell burrs in my opinion.
Hey can you post best espresso machine for home and grinder ?
ACS evo leva MK2 and Mazzer Philos grinder
Best ends up being about the work flow after a certain point, and the money you spend more is a diminishing return. Take the 400 DF64gen2. Bretty dam great. Can you do better? maybe. I think after a cerain point you are paying for name, finish maybe some build, and the burr hype.
@@philindeblanc thnks buddy I’m my Bridget this and about espresso machine good quality? At least pid there I want like life time
Excellent one and different to other channels, bring lagom01 for a deep review
Thank you so much! Need deep pockets to justify that purchase just for a review. Maybe if we get more support on Patreon.
@@aramse I am sure they can offer a good deal for this very good channel
I'm here just for the flavour of my espresso in the cup.... I'd pay the extra for the Zerno if it's going to give me that (by the way in my market (Canada) the Zerno isn't that much more than the Philos, and the DF83v isn't that much cheaper. Which will make the espresso I want - I lean toward the traditional Italian style but sometimes enjoy a bit fruitier style (natural Panama giesha). You talk about these alternatives without saying which produces what flavour. As purchasers we can't buy a Philos and then 2 weeks later say - darn maybe I should have got the Zerno, or maybe variable speed would let me dial my coffee in more,...
More than the grinder the burrs will dictate how your coffee tastes. Using the 189D burrs from Mazzer should give you excellent espresso in the traditional style. The Zerno is a better grinder from a build and tolerance point of view. It’s carefully manufactured in very small batches and the alignment and auger should give you some gains in the cup. It’s got a really long wait time though. Both excellent grinders with minor differences in terms of build, size and post sales support.
TLDW but from the thumbnail I thought that's a stick vacuum
We have detailed chapter markers so you can watch exactly what you’re looking for.
Having the grind setting on the back is a big design miss, period!
no, if only i could post a picture here you would see how great it is at the back of the counter, dial on the right , switch directly in front of me and feed / cup on the left.. then loads of space for scales, tamping etc in front of it.
@@adrianmichaelsmith Yeah right, put it under a kitchen cabinet and come back and say how well it works, stop defending something that is so obviously wrong, are you involved with Mazzer?
My daughter is an industrial designer and the first thing she said was that whoever designs the machine must have slept in class during the first 2 years of the training!
@@dejedejsson be very careful with you accusations. you are wrong on every statement and belief.
i do not work in the coffee industry or anything even loosely related to it
you should apologise to Mazzer.
it fits perfectly under a cabinet. have added a video just for a fool like you to see. i expect to see your ridiculous comments!
There's hope that in time and with experience your daughter will develop and realise first thoughts are not always correct.
there's possibly no hope for you.
This is an amazing grinder at this price point.
Got mine under a counter. Not been a problem for me at all.
@@dejedejsson You are an absolutely unpleasant character.
if you're considering 64mm grinder, just buy a Zerno....
It's a price big jump in price from the Philos to the Zerno though.
@@aramse my typical motto applies here - "cry once"
I cant! that thing is too ugly looking. last thing I want is a Mac monitor stand for my coffee bar!
@@philindeblanc speaks volumes as to the type of coffee you like and the coffee person u are you
@@IamMotionMedia Ya, I appreciate good design, like this Mazzer, but a monitor stand for a grinder...Not gonna do it! I think its the worst looking one next to the fugly Niche....but that at least has a category it shines, in, the retro style. So I give that a pass. But this is just lazy design work for the Zerno.
Sorry to me it is an overly large overstyled and ugly mess of conflicting shapes and angles, pointlessly big for a home use machine, and too small with no cooling for a commercial machine, too expensive and will not find a market for something that has so many competitors in the space.
Have you used it? Honestly it’s a very different experience in the flesh compared to images. But yeah looks are subjective and your opinion is just as valid as mine. As for how successful it’ll be we’ll have to wait and see. IMO the combo of the price and the brand actually make a very attractive option for the high end home market.
i love mine. does that make you wrong? to me, yes. to others, maybe not!
just get a 83mm for that price... Not even "competitive"
I did have a df83. Did, but this is far better. Build quality is next level in comparison.
Theres no way you can say all 83mm are better than all 64mm.
I still use the Duo for Decaf. That's also a great grinder.
Most of the 83s in this price bracket or below just aren't on the same level when it comes to build quality. If that's something you care about then it's not such a no brainer decision.
Im not sure if there's some official way to say what im about to say, this is aimed just at UK buyers.
First though, @aramse great review.
I just want to make the point that the Philos is available to purchase direct from Mazer for direct delivery to the UK.
I have seen 4 or 5 retailers advertising this as in stock at prices from £1300 to £1500 . Direct price after import duty is £900.
These are not scams either so my warning is simply buyer beware. they are doing nothing wrong, i guess ths is just the lottery of purchasing retail products in the UK.
i've already been accused by one fool of working for Mazer. the only tenuous link i have to Mazzer is I have purchased Mazzer Philos, niche zero, niche duo, weber Key, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime, so you could say im a fan!
very typical "italian design" that it's this mix of crazy overdoing it in some materials and then having the parts that you touch every. single. time. you use it feel bad.
Italian design for me means superficial instead of deeply engineered.
In a cafe you usually change the grind setting a lot and want to do it quickly without needing both hands. It's a terrible design that totally misses the reality of how coffee works. Not to mention how it makes finding a spot that fits the grinder much harder.
It's different for the sake of being different. Very Italian design.
Just used it in my cafe for two weeks. Works amazing. We usually offer 2 types of espresso and 2x V60. Using it mostly for those v60 or cuppings. As it’s advertised for a commercial use it’s not to huge I would say. Going smaller wouldn’t fit in that enviroment.
I don’t know the coffee places you go to but I doubt you the the baristas touching the grindsetting more than 1-2x a day 🤔 (except grinding bags for customers- but that’s not where the grinder is meant for)
Had mine 2 weeks. Best ive had. I use it turned 90 degrees to your description. Best grinder. Best workflow. No static.
What a stupid thing to say. The wheel in the back is feels extremely natural after like two minutes, you'd know if you laid hands on it. It's a fantastic design, also it lets you clean and change burrs without interfering with grind setting mechanics
Then I need to pull out this tool to get no retention? How does a 400-600 grinder get this right...and its made in China, LOL. No variable spped? OK, no biggy, then plastic at the parts that we deal with daily? Hmm, I actually prefer the plastic over the stupid wood everyone uses, but a simple anodized or brushed aluminum would have been easy to do, or as in the review, better plastic. Also It does look pretty big for the home. Would hate it if its tower over my espresso machine...but thats OK if all is perfect. I dont know...Not sold. Still see the DF64gen2 or the V being well made, and 6 micron is actually a lot vs what I saw a review for...I cant remember which, but its .05 microns!! So...!?
@@philindeblanc Your 400-600€ grinder will fall apart in a year, variable speed is a gimmick which is simply not needed, the 'plastic parts' like the switch are due to food regulations, the rubber plastic on top is to avoid vibrations/dinging with the hopper, but most importantly, the Philos makes a much better cup than the DF64