[High IQ] The two types of intellectual giftedness (high and low prenatal testosterone)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2019
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Blog with scientific studies on prenatal testosterone, brain, behavior and the 2D:4D digit ratio: bit.ly/2HlCQQx
In this video, the two types of intellectual giftedness, both highly intelligent but almost opposite at behavioral, social, emotional etc. levels, based on contemporary science concerning prenatal testosterone, and my own observations as an intellectually gifted person. Also a bit on convergent intelligence versus divergent intelligence, and the 2D:4D digit ratio.
At forty years of age, I discovered that I was intellectually gifted / high IQ during a supervised IQ test by Mensa, which changed a lot for me, also in unexpected ways. On this channel I share my personal experience and thoughts on intellectual giftedness - and other subjects. Thanks for liking and subscribing!
I am not intellectually gifted, but I appreciate people who can communicate effectively, regardless of IQ.
Why do you think you're not intellectually gifted? Maybe you are :) Have you checked my video on the two types of intellectual giftedness and prenatal testosterone? If your digit ratio is on the fringes it may be an indication of giftedness... th-cam.com/video/OmbEaBfzKFk/w-d-xo.html
@@Abel.Abelson Thank you I will look into that. I am terrible at math, but much better at verbal skills, creativity, etc.
@@MeadeSkeltonMusic That would be more typically feminine brain. It would also be typically feminine brain to underestimate oneself :)
@@Abel.Abelson no it isn't. Men are more creative.
@@MeadeSkeltonMusic That might point to a masculine-brained definition of "creativity" ;)
He talk so well that even youtube subtitles can understand him
Haha
I think the way digit ratio is measured is terribly inaccurate. It averages out statistically that men have longer ring fingers and women have longer pointers but where the crease in your hand is depends on how long the webbing is between your fingers. I’ve noticed it is highly variable where the crease starts on your hand for both men and women.
If I measure my digit ratio the normal way I get 1:1 which is really feminine but if I just lay my hand flat down on the table then my ring finger is almost a full fingernail length longer. Therefore I think studies should be done measuring from the all the way back to the knuckle at the base and checked for correlation where the fingers are straight and bent at a 90 degree angle to the palm. If I measure that way the ratio comes out to be about .905 when I use calipers. There is no data on measuring this way however so I can’t tell if the ratios would average out to be the same as digit ratios are measured currently.
I am curious however so can people reading this comment post your ratio measuring this way and your biological gender so I can get some data on this? Just bend your fingers so they form an L shape with your palm and measure from the back of your knuckles to finger tip. Then divide your ring finger length by your index finger length. Try to be as accurate and precise as possible. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks
Lucky for us he reiterates enough to eventually catch it all!
0:41 The Fetus is exposed to Prenatal Testosterone
1:30 Prenatal Testosterone influences The Brain 🧠
2D4D Ratio
3:28 0.998
5:24
Masculine -> Manly, Dominance, Agreession, Muscle, Mental Rigidity
6:33 Extreme Masculine Brain 🧠
High Testosterone, Low 2D4D Ratio
• Rules, Procedure
7:50
Systemizing & Empathizing
Engineering, Math/ Emotional Care
9:43 Intellectual Giftedness
• They come in different forms
• Divergant, Convergent
14:00
Excellent time stamp as always my guy
That Time Stamp Guy Thank you for your service.
I guess you would come under the heading of "systemizer", Zeitstempel. LOL!
I really want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I never understood my life in contrast to my peers or my family. You prompted me to take an online IQ test and while feeling like im guessing or not even understanding every question in english (as my third language) I scored 130 and Iml looking forward to do the official Mensa testing. It really explains why I suspected myself to be between BPD, ADHD and autism. I am currently looking for a diagnosis, since those things might co-exist with my IQ and make life even harder to sort for now. Thank you for giving me courage and helping a fellow human. Once I get my life financially sorted I want to make sure to buy your books and support you and your cause. Best regards to you!
Glad I could be of help! Have a great journey!
@@mujotomi Thanks for the answer. I arrived at this point too after a while. It was more my mother who was more or less forcing me to do it, cause otherwise its "imagining things" and she wouldnt believe me that I had problems. So I needed it in order to be left alone since I am still financially dependent on her and if you know bpd people they just fuck with your life a lot and cant easily shift perspectives etc. I was just tired of being on the verge of being kicked out of my home so I was looking for something official to keep my mother at bay and have enough time /energy to set up my own life. Otherwise I fully agree with you. I used psylocibin and LSD to raise my neuroplasticity and rewire my brain into a healthier shape, which is basically meditation on steroids right? Also I needed to confirm somewhat that the adaptation im striving towards makes sense for my personality. It confirmed that I decided for the right choices and changes without knowing much about bpd, ptsd or anxiety disorders. And knowing how capable I am gave me back my usual confidence, which was always heavily undermined by my mother, who projected all her laziness and other non-productive/inhibiting attributes onto me. I dont think I am comparing :D Its more about discovering my innate abilities in order to facilitate them according to my limits and break away from a toxic environment. On another note, I somehow managed to explain to my mother what bpd is and she signed up for therapy because she recognised herself in all the desriptions( and I guess its cause she probably too has a pretty high IQ its just inhibiting her because its combined with BPD). Now I dont need any certificate so she believes me. Nevertheless good advice :) All in all I agree that all these things do not define me, but they are useful tools to have at hand in order to make the best out of your life. At least thats how I see it!
@@marcinczapski8547 we must treat everyone based off their neurological situation- education is all that we need. I love you. My mom takes care of me too- I am 28 and just found out what Autism is.. I thought it was down syndrome my entire life. Now I know I am on the spectrum and I have been waking up with this Brian and Body my entire life.. confused.. tired.. frustrated... Along side help of this video explaining how testosterone affected me during development makes a lot of sense. I am blessed to have this body and would not change it for the world. This type of mind must be harnessed and controlled or else it will destroy itself and everything around it.. "With great power comes great responsibility." We need to hold ourselves responsible of learning how to harness the full power of our minds hearts and souls... we will be the movers and shakers of this reality till the end of time and they can never stop us once we learn how to control and protect ourselves from people that do not understand as they do not share the same IQ. Our differences give us strength if we work together.
Thank you. This cleared a lot of things up. I am a male with a more feminine divergent thinking brain. Index and ring finger are both exactly 73 mm. Lack of order, crazy adaptability, the constant deconstruction of myself, my abhorring of living in accord to a fixed repeated pattern... It all adds up. Now I know why I am this way. Much gratitude.
Glad I could be of help :) (I'd rephrase "lack of order" in a positive way by the way. It's rather that those others have overly rigid minds that can't handle a bit of chaos, randomness and change. Their brains can't do it. Yours can. That's a plus, not a lack of something. ;) )
ring and index are basically indentical in lenght, also fit the description. I think he's onto something here
@@arstans1777 me 3
Have you checked if you had ADHD?
@@sulaymanadham5760 why?
As a female, with a significantly longer ring finger, then index finger, and other characteristics that suggest hire testosterone levels, which were verified by a medical doctor, I thought, and wondered why this is so, and how atypical this might be of a female, who loves feminine things and he’s not a tomboy at all!
I have been accused of having an engineering mind and did very well in the math and sciences, but also in the English, foreign languages, and psychology.
I look forward to more videos on your channel.
Thank you for your excellent video and your very clear, concise, communication style. :-)
I'm so glad that I found your channel. Subscribed! This prenatal testosterone influence on the brain really explains a lot for me as a woman who doesn't think like most women. Most of my friends have been male too.
I appreciated this discussion very much and thank you sincerely for the information and the work it took to relay it in this post.
My observation is that your intellectual giftedness is linked to your awareness of divergence in yourself and the act of adding convergence. This was clear to me as you described that process.
For myself, my 2d4d ratio is very low and I fit into the traits relating to high-prenatal testosterone exposure. I have always been drawn to the social sciences and through the internal need to use convergence to systemize our world and human experience, my observations led to accepting the need for divergence in order to understand. I rigidly believe that by appreciating context and opening myself up to all life-pathways and situations I observe, my convergent mind is satisfied.
Your channel is really underrated
This is really quite uncanny the immense amount of similarities we share/relate. So much so I'm neither shocked, nor in disbelief, but fully content. I don't know how much this message will matter to you, and at which end these words sit true for you, but I think we owe it to ourselves to communicate in some capacity. Genuinely interested, and relieved to have found your videos. To be able to say (as wholehearted as watching your videos, and not having an actual conversationally conclusion goes) that we are seemingly near to like minded is unbelievable to me. Except that may not be the case... Either way, sorry this is long winded, I think you understand the context, haha. So yeah, thank you... I also bought your book, and that reinforced much of my conclusions. Cheers! -Colby
Fabulous! I you haven't already, do leave a review on Amazon ;), that would be great!
Omg... Divergent thinker here always annoyed at IQ tests, “well this is the answer you want but the question is wrong and implies a possibility of this other thing being relevant or true...
Imagine a world where there is only one answer on the test-- Mind Blown.
Thank you so much!
You're welcome :) Thanks for letting me know.
Check out my books, there might be something for you there too ;) : amzn.to/3paQsmz
Born or trained yourself to think divergently? If trained how?
@@mandingomilk63 I definitely didn't train myself consciously to think divergently. And all the training I received basically was converging.
@@Abel.Abelson You should take the time to break down your thought process, and put into steps like scott young. I think that would a interesting video.
Wow🎉 this explains everything that I was trying to answer. I always knew I’m extremely empathising and etc. but when I watched this vid on lower pre test. you basically explained most of my brains characteristics (almost 1,1 ratio). Thanks a lot, for a man it’s very important to know!
In computer science, one of the golden rules: Favour abstractions over concretions. I find people fall into a similar spectrum. Also, didn't realize how low my 2D4D was until just now, thanks for the links to the studies!
I love this topic. Gonna watch more of your videos.
For me personally, it's interesting to see how you present your ideas, as a gifted + neurodivergent person. You sum up the 2D4D method in one sentence. But say, a neurotypical from the massmedia industry, for example, would have made a 3 minute animated video explaining - what the 2D4D ratio is - how to measure it (with a 20 second segment physically showing how to measure it) and - what the measurements mean, maybe with a personal story about their own measurements, and how their traits play out in everyday interations with other people. They would use a clickbait thumbnail saying something along the lines of "measure this to figure out your true personality!" or sth like this. I'm a gifted adult in marketing, and watching you made me ponder on what makes neurotypicals "tick" and what somebody can do to make something accessible and "engaging" (in a nutshell, concretize, which means to unpack abstract concepts into visual/time sequences -- this is what a Ted Talk is. Their main ideas can all be boiled down to 1 sentence, which I would personally prefer, but that won't work for the mass audience). Thank you! Lots of food for thought.
Oh, and I'll check out your book! Good luck!
thank you for the effort you commit to helping us understand..its difficult to walk this road alone without certainty.
I stumbled upon your video - it came up as I was delving into personality types. This makes so much sense for myself as a female that has actually been called weird by co-workers. My ratio is .92 - always looked very feminine but operate in a more typically masculine less emotional manner (95% of my co-workers are female)😅Kind of reassuring to know my “weirdness” is rooted in biology
I feel at home in this channel. Thank you so much.
There sure is a lot we're yet to learn regarding our implicit constructs and their relationships. Cool vid; I knew not of the digit ratio. My comments are mostly criticisms, though xD Constructive ones, I hope:
- Fellow, there are functinal (behavioral) measures of Systemathizing-and-Empathizing in which the relation among both construcuts is orthogonal. Relliably so.
- There are intelligence tests which go through the plurality path to get to the one g factor. Many seem (face-value) more "math-like" to avoid cultural/ecological biases. There are also many which actually are shaped in such "math-like" way and still gather said biases. Research goes on, and unbalanced versions whittle away.
- In the Rorschach test, one of the most common measures (used among different schools of interpretation) is so correlated which "g factor" that is understood as-such (an actual measure of fluid intelligence), and is a non-convergent (divergent) measure.
And a non-constructive one (for comparison xD):
- "Openness to experience" and "empathising" seem non-related. Just as "passive empathy" (a respondent behavior: such classifying groups between ally and enemy, victim and stronger, etc) and "deliberate empathy" (an operant behavior: such as clinical attention, ombusdmanship, etc). Different proxies for creativity(ies) and sexes, etc. The words we use traditionaly for classification (sexist, nationalist, racist, etc) are quite vague in operationalization. Still matter, but their "adjectivizing" is better used with caution. Or quotation marks.
In regard to idiosyncratic data, my 2D:4D ratio is 0.9375, but I maxed out on both "empathising" and "systemathizing" back when I looked into it (probably why I why I remember it). I seem to be too far in extreme for some pondered measures (back in psych grad, a "Battery of [different] Reasoning Tests" also resulted in a maxed-out in everything after hours of inputing data into it [it sure is bragging-material, but I was briefly utterly disconsolated after so many answers offered, coming face-to-face with a straight line where there should have been a graphic xD]) which are shaped with non-concurrence in data-gathering; it's cool to find such a simple index with correlations already in literature. It seems I'm "(manly) normal" at it (as per en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio#/media/File:Digit_ratio_visualization_according_to_data_from_Bailey_and_Hurd,_2005.png ).
My ratio is 1.0. I can relate to the mensa-experience. But I can't say I qualify for either type.... I'm more of an overlapping type, I would say, according to this. Love the "rabbithole-feeling" in this post😍👌
Thanks for the information Mr Magneto
Fascinating concepts. I think recognizing that tests with fixed answers are different than real life is a sign of intelligence itself. I fit the extreme masculine as a child physically and mentally (time and events have taken their toll). Emotionally it's much more complicated.
What I wonder most about is something related - from where does honesty come? Because I consider that my greatest source of intelligence. No one in my family values truth like I do, so it doesn't seem to be inherited or cultural. And I see very few people in the world value truth. They think they do, but they quickly reveal biases they cling to emotionally. I also don't regard authority figures as anything special - again, I seem to be radically different from the norm. I think that is at least somewhat tied to honesty, because it seems you really have to have blinders on to not see what people do with power. So, what's the origin of my values? I think it's spiritual, but, where is the physical track of it? Is there one?
I enjoyed the thinking process you have taken.
I would have to say I fall on the systematizing side and have a 2D:4D of 0.956.
When possible I prefer to work on established systems and try to improve on them. When put into playing games the analysts say it looks like how a power gamer would play - seeing the game/scenario like a series of processes, optimizing how those processes go together to get the maximum points. But there are instances where I have to improvise (in a new situation) and there are flashes of genius that can help with a solution. But usually the flashes of genius don't normally occur uncontrollably like inspirational thought or creative thought one after another for other people.
There are moments of worry when the processes, in real life, depend a great deal on other people eg work interviews, making deals, negotiation, collaboration. This is when the system may not work very well and the more adaptive genius could fare far better.
Fascinating talk. Thank you.
You're welcome! Thanks for letting me know!
Many thanks for your video !
You're welcome! Thanks for watching! (And check out my book amzn.to/1TXD8OK, if the video speaks to you, the book will probably even more).
Since you already know me from other comments, I'll begin this one saying thank you for having replied to all of them! I'm very interested in these topics and learning more about my potential, I appreciated that brief exchange.
So I watched this video and calculated my ratio, which is 0.98 (I'm female).
Looking back, I was always interested in reading tons of books, creating stories, drawing and playing music. I showed talent at those when I was little, but I never received a training because my parents refused. That was very depressing for me, so I saw no point in doing school assignments (I hated and feared maths with all my heart). I'd definitely say that my intelligence verges more on finding multiple solutions to things, "universal" empathy and trying to figure out all the perspectives possible in a situation.
While I wasn't interested in maths, this didn't prevent me to score high solving problems in different ways than they were meant to sometimes, which makes me think I can be flexible if I want to.
Especially you saying that once you figured out that IQ tests are directed to people with a convergent type of intelligence, made me understand the adaptable power of our brains.
If we force ourselves to figure out the only possible solution, we can work towards it, and this is something very important that I'm learning this year- refusing to think logically and in schemes, I closed myself to the patterns that before I used to take on instinctively purely due to my brain's nature, but only with subjects that interested me. With this new "technique" I want to give myself a chance to actually learn maths and physics, since they fascinate me and would make for a more ample cultural bank for my stories (I'm an aspiring comic artist).
Do you think that playing music is a skill that can be mastered by both intellectual types in the same way, or would people with a more masculine brain pick up better things like rythm and technique while feminine brains the emotional expression of music (so mood, I guess)?
Sorry for writing and questioning so much, but this is all very interesting.
I don't think there's *anything* that is mastered by the different brain types in the same way, including music. I am convinced that high prenatal testosterone goes together with a systemic, almost mathematical and also sort of competitive approach to music, while low PT is associated with a complete emotional approach. It seems that Liszt for instance, who was known for being a virtuoso, had a low 2D:4D ratio, while Chopin, a very emotional composer and musician, had a high 2D:4D ratio. There's an account of Chopin being very annoyed because Liszt played one of his pieces and killed it off by filling it up with virtuoso embellishments, taking all the emotion out of it. Orchestra players tend to be rather high PT, they perform the music as it is written, more in a systemic way (which doesn't mean they can't put "emotion" in it, according to what the partition demands). Chris Martin from Coldplay has a high 2D:4D (low prenatal testosterone) and has a very emotional, non-virtuoso approach. Obviously high PT people can bring emotional music too, and obviously they have a lot of strong emotions too, but they would tend to be less soft, less sentimental, less melancholic.
As an interpreter (eg. singer who doesn't write his/her own songs and only performs them) a high PT performer can also be guided by the composer or a coach to put more "soft" emotion in their music, so that kind of makes it difficult to make the distinction on the surface.
But on the whole I'm convinced that the approach would be completely different.
@Hananas wow i really relate to you! i'm a female w aspergers, i also loathed maths, only after going to secondary school though. but i would flabbergast the teacher, after leaving him waiting with doubtful eyes, by finding the correct answer in the 'wrong' way! i wonder whether i have a high or low ratio. the only good grade i got at school was A* in music.
@@Abel.Abelson i am a technically capable melismatic singer but do it with emotion. my technical skills are better when i'm feeling it. i play the violin with no notation or note aids, just by ear. although i got distinction for all types of theory. i suppose i would be the low one, which is more bothered with technicality and getting it right. but i like to think that i have emotion in my music. like mariah carey for example, she's technically very good , but well known for emotional music. i wonder if that would be the feminine or masculine one. i'm gonna go n spy on her fingers now....
if the high pt is technical, (left brained) and the low pt is emotional, yet people with high pt can be very emotional and people with low pt very technical, then what does this all even mean/indicate? is there a general pattern? i guess what you are saying is high pt people are generally less emotional. and the exceptions are just more rare?
are you saying females with a masc brain & males w a female brain is what makes the more intelligent ones?
@@purelight2025 I think both high and low PT are very much capable of emotions, but that it's different kinds of emotions. Like a different set or range of emotions, different types of emotionality. But the intensity is the same. And high PT can "convey", "represent" the emotions that are more typical for low PT, passing through technique. Like, for instance, Chopin is low PT according to me. A high PT concert pianist can convey Chopin's emotions, but he or she wouldn't write that kind of music. Something like that.
Maybe you can help clarify this?
Wow, simply amazing.
From what I understood from your video I must have a feminine brain. I have a high index ratio and have shared many of your views.
It has been particularly helpful as I never felt smart, but i am theoretically, and have always felt like I wasn’t living up to my potential. I have bad memory and I believed it had a heavy relation with intelligence. Now I know that I can also not have relation.
Thanks allot, you made me understand myself much better.
Thank you.
My left 2D4D ratio is 0.948 and right ration is 0.986 - Interesting!
Glad you mentioned the right hand. I compared and my left ring finger is indeed slight longer than my right, whereas both my index fingers were identical 😮
.86. However, I think I have a good balance between divergent and convergent thinking. I am direct and enjoy physical activity, but I also like the arts a lot. I think that the "nurture" aspect of this plays a large roll. I would never have become a book worm if my mother didn't make me read at a young age. I find that most things in life can bring a level of satisfaction, and nothing feels better than becoming proficient at a new skill.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing
I have both habilities.... theories or books I could read ? I made my career in IT and now I am studying law at collage. Im good at arts, music, sports, foreign languages and Ive been suspecting I may have autism (currently looking for a diagnosis). My mind works different for sure, just not sure what is it. Im 36 female. Im from Argentina. Thanks
This video really helped me to understand myself better. My digit ratio is 1.04 and it explains a lot about my preferences and struggles in life. My process of understanding is more intuitive than rule based - in order to understand I need to get a feeling for the concept first and then rationalize from there on. For all my life (I am in my late 30s now) I enjoyed everything that was accessible with my divergent and lateral mode of thinking like literature, history, philosophy, art but somehow I did have an almost romantic inclination towards math and science. The problem with these subjects has been that the way these are taught is not compatible with my brain. I don´t feel it, so I don´t understand it. Oftentimes I have to translate everything to a language my brain can connect to. In my professional life I am a Lawyer but I did struggle with the rule based approach immensly and to this day don´t really care about the law. What I care for is the process of arguing creatively, being flexible in my point of view and use the law in ways no one thought of to get what the client wants. Interestingly emphazising with other people overwhelms and drains me, so that I don´t like exposure to my clients. When I don´t get what I want or feel treated badly, I can get very confrontational - borderline destructive - but my normal mode is non competitive and I don´t know how to portray confidence outwardly. People that don´t know me well, tell my that I have low confidence, which is not true, I just can´t express it like my peers. My problem with IQ tests is the same as yours. The questions lead to an explosion of possibilities and it took me a long time to understand that instead of creating possibilities the test wants me to give exactly one solution and that as quickly as possible. I am very good at analogies, average to below average at spatial and rule based problems. Convergent thinking still feels uncomfortable and like a misuse of my brain though and I don´t get why solving banal problems in quick succession would be an indicator of cognitive ability. I don´t like socializing very much, am bad at power games, status driven behaviour and at understanding social norms. It´s not just that I don´t conforme to these, I don´t even see to what I should conforme. Girls sometimes think of me as not masculine enough and men sometimes mistake me for being gay. (I was bullied and misunderstood during school because of my "non typicalness".) Very interesting, it all comes together. (english is not my first language, so sorry if something is expressed badly)
When I want to enjoy math, it helps to read a biography of the mathematician that "discovered" the concept. I really enjoyed my time with Fermat´s last theorem after reading the biography of Andrew Wiles for example. I taught myself some advanced physics after reading lots of "feely" books about Feynman, Einstein, Dirac, Bohr etc.
Yes, very similar to me. Interesting, right :)
@@Abel.Abelson Very interesting indeed. I even have "feminine" facial features, like an oval shaped head, small and pointy jaw and a "soft" and not very loud voice. I am quite athletic (swimming, running and calisthenics) but my bone structure is feminine - narrow shoulders and hips that are not as narrow as they could be^^ My last girlfriend even made a comment about my skin, it would be softer than her´s :D
@@jimbeam4736 Yes, my wife tells me that too about my skin :) Also rather thin and somewhat feminine structure, and soft voice. Rather small torso compared to limbs also, compared with the typical macho beast :) I never did admire "manliness" in any way, actually, and see no special need or use for it, so I'm quite comfortable with all that, even content.
Thanks for this video! Explains quite a bit for me... My ratio is ~0,99, so also a feminine divergent brain and I think we share quite a few traits. I only found out about my giftedness at the age of 39 by accident. A friend of my girfriend got diagnosed and I looked up the character traits of intellectually gifted people which really hit home. I took an official test (WAIS-IV) some time later. I did take some online IQ tests many years ago but never scored particularly high because I didn't understand the tasks. Once I understood how those matrix questions are supposed to work, I found them pretty easy even and scored pretty high in that area. Before all this I thought something was wrong with me and I didn't know a single person that would really understand me or how I work. And since I don't come across as the typical scientific megabrain, not a single person ever suggested that my IQ might be higher than the majority. I always thought it was maybe a tiny bit above the average and my school and university grades reflected that. I just ignored the fact that I did almost nothing to achieve these goals (except for advanced mathematics in university...).
There are many mental illnesses out there whith which I identify as well... But they don't get to me 100% because I can think these things through and I've got a very high level of self control. I used to think that I'm emotionally cold and distant but in fact I have a very rich inner life and very strong emotions but I can control them. I just feel more of anything.
Yes, that all sounds like me indeed 🙂.
do you also happen to have rh negative blood type ?
You are correct I worked this out about 3 years ago from experience.
As someone born KS 47,XXY andupolody (low T, sterility Asperger's, ADHD) this makes sense. The intellectual problems with KS are totally misrepresented. It's executive functioning and sensory processing. Most of us, especially mosaics, are average and above average. I have never taken a test but I'm definitely a "super learner" autodidactic polymath. Totally addicted to learning and ceaselessly curious. Your first video about wanting to know the "why" and the higher abstraction. Philosophy and the why after learning the how, plus the empathy and anxiety over cold war icbm exchange and ecological disasters...that was me too! What kind of 8yo kid follows geopolitics and the asymmetrical warfare that resulted in the collapse of the USSR?
.956 2D/4D. I enjoy poetry, art, theatre, music and deep conversations about ideas but I do have some rigidities. I don't enjoy sports but used to swing a hammer for a living so I suppose this neither validates or invalidates the theory. Nevertheless, still compelling, actually. I appreciate the work and resources. I especially appreciate your exposing the convergent bias for IQ metrics that really does hamstring those of us top out subtests but getting dragged down by a 2e condition.
I had the very same struggle that you describe with regards to finally "figuring out" the answers weren't "outside" the puzzle but actually there on the page. All of a sudden, the tumblers fell and it all became so much easier though I struggled terribly in the beginning, often running out the timer.
Cheers!
Thanks! Yes, same here...
Female, ratio of .94, got a very bad memory cannot memorize people’s names for crap. I am very good at empathizing and putting myself in other people’s shoes. I am very confident in myself and I also have low confidence sometimes and hate myself. I chalk up the hating myself and low confidence to a mental illness I should probably get help for. (Who needs help when you can just overthink ) I’ve been told that people who read a lot when they are younger are able to empathize more later in life, and I have read a lot as a child. I’m rather interested too see what aspects of myself are just I suppose naturally there and what others are because of my upbringing.
Your videos are brilliant, they show there are more to human intelligence than most people believe, simply a IQ score.Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You're very welcome, thanks for letting me know :) Check out my books, they might interest you too ;) amzn.to/3paQsmz
On your photo is Gerard Way, who has an equal 2D and 4D ratio.
I have the same type of divergent cognition as you. More so on the Feminine side of thinking. I am terrible with direction and smaller details but I am good at connecting the Macro pieces. My short term memory is bad. I think my creativity and investigative abilities are good though.
I am very empathic and flexible. I noticed that a lot of mensa fellow have a more convergent way of thinking compared to me that I'm more divergent. The theory of prenatal testosterone is fascinating; thank you, I am going to read the study! (:
Great! How is your 2D:4D digit ratio? Is your index finger smaller than your ring finger?
My index finger is equal to my ring finger
@@lillianzhang5531 Interesting! So you would have a more feminine (low prenatal testosterone) brain. Would be interesting for you to check your boyfriend's digit ratio :) And your fellow Mensans...
AbelAbelson my boyfriend digit have low 2d:4d ratio and Its seem to confirm the theory about masculine brain having a more convergent and systematic way of think
@@lillianzhang5531 Interesting! Did you read some of the studies? What do you think about it?
Great video! I have a low 2:4 ratio finger. Now I'm going to read the study!
Thanks Joseph! You'll see that there's a lot of research being done around this...
Have you read some of the studies? What do you think about it?
Fascinating post... I've not completed an IQ test for a few years, but did a few during my teens (the 1990s) and tended to score around 140 (the 'borderline genius' category). I'm currently trying to work out if I might be on the autistic spectrum - there's a lot that correlates, but certain aspects that just don't seem to fit. I've never heard about the effects of prenatal testosterone before... but glancing down to my right hand: my index finger is almost 1cm longer than my ring finger, I'd guesstimate a ratio closer to 1.1.
I feel like I might have quite a bit of reading ahead of me, but thank you for putting information like this out there. I'm finally getting the sense that 'I'm not the only one'...
That would be a very feminine ratio! Glad I could help!
wow, a pity i see this only now at 34.. this is so eye opening... i find myself at the feminine side and my best friend at the masculine. we are so different but we both always knew that we are both quite intelligent (both higher IQ test in youth also). On his part everyone sees it quite clearly because of the convergent logical thinking i always amdired (he is a chemicist). On my part it really is more hidden, and more of a creative intelligence. And i overcomplicate stuff.
He often told me though that he thinks I'm very intelligent in my own way, but I never investigated it.. Thank you so much!
Very fascinating
So interesting. I have always thought that I'm neutral in terms of masculinity and femininity since I have both characteristics, but my ratio is 1.045. I love to problem solve and think about every angle of a problem, so it's kind of cool to know that I'm a very feminine woman at heart. Fun video!
Great topic! I've interested on this for quite a while but I never considered the possibility that people could manifest their intelligence in different way if they had a more feminine brain.
Personally, I don't know the exact measurements of my fingers, but my ring finger is noticeably longer than my index finger (it actually looks more like my middle finger), to the point where when I was a child I thought that everyone had a longer ring finger like me. I definitely think in a more systematic way and I am low on empathizing (I don't think feelings are that important when looking into a decision compared to logic). That said, I do love to think outside the box for new solutions and I get bored quite easily.
I would describe my way of thinking as learning about many different (but sometimes related) subjects, but always having a mental "web" in which I connect all of them. For instance, I am currently studying marketing, but I am also interested in politics, so I connect marketing strategies to political propaganda, which are essentially the same thing. I am also interested in neuropsychology, like in this video, and how and why people think differently; this, then, influences their political opinions and what they are interested to consume or which form of advertisement works better for them.
Also, I've never been too interested in machines or engineering in general (although I do appreciate it and I love to see technological progress); I've always been more interested in the social sciences and I think Philosophy is the field which encompasses everything else.
Finally, is there any other concrete example or suggestion beside divergent thinking of a behavior which could characterize a more "feminine" intelligence? I will definitely reconsider the way I perceive people intelligence from now on.
I think self-doubt would definitely be typical for "feminine" brains, and a lack of desire to dominate. Adaptability also...
I very much agree with you this gift to be open minded and to never rule out a possible can be dangerous when not enough information is present to rule out a possibility leading to very extreme statistically low possibilities being considered sometimes accepted leading to a delusion
CAN I GET A HELL YEAH?!?! I've always known I was intellectually gifted, but wasn't properly acknowledged or treated as such in school...at least not consistently - my grades would change with my emotional states. It was always the more convergent, masculine/ testosterone-dominated students that were acknowledged as such. When I was younger, I'd test in the 90th, often 95th-99th percentile in most subjects (especially literature, the arts, and abstract thinking) on the yearly national assessments, but eventually failed miserably in school as the years passed, exponentially as I got older. I had such an incredible lack of confidence and an environment that would not support my intelligence and creativity. I've always seen myself as a divergent thinker. What was crucial and completely missing was any kind of emotional support and affection that was always vitally important to me. The most crucial fuel for me is to feel someone else's emotions and support, and for them to share that affection/ connection with me, yet my childhood (and to this day due to my lack of self-confidence) was completely devoid of that, with bouts of traumatic events in my childhood. To this day, it's a struggle for anyone to realize that because of our societal conditioning (I'm particularly thinking of men seeking out women in romantic relationships). More masculine women seem to be able to attract men far more easily, even if they may look feminine on the surface. It's the most frustrating position to be in in this world, to be and feel this rejected for your entire life. It feels so good to hear affirmation and scientific confirmation/ acknowledgment of this giftedness, when all my life I've felt trapped and in a dark place, knowing I could see more than anyone else could around me yet be constantly rejected in my foresight, and knowing deep down inside I am gifted, yet feeling extremely inferior and like the biggest failure for all of my life. 43 lonely, isolating, painful years feeling outcast and confused. I feel I live an entire life full of resistance and trying to adapt to a society that is the complete opposite of how I'm naturally built. An INFP (tested in 1997) in an ESTJ world. Thank you, Abel, for sharing this. Always feeling like I need to justify my own nature. This info helps me a lot. Made my day.
Hi Christine, I'm so glad I could be of help. You've been missing what's called "feeling felt", which is not uncommon, sadly enough, for neurodivergents. Which is why it's important to share. Check out my books, they're geared towards this same feeling felt: amzn.to/3paQsmz
@@Abel.Abelson, awesome. I will! Very excited to dive into more of your material. Do you have any videos discussing "feeling felt"? Or you have a particular book you recommend to start off with, and one that touches on the subject of "feeling felt"? Thanks again. 😎
I have been aware of this for some time. My pointer finger is about an inch shorter than my ring finger, I was a bit of a troublemaker as a child and I've had my share of risk taking as an adult. After reading of the 2d4d ratio about 5 years ago, I now routinely look at people's hands to understand them.
I look at people's hands always too now, but often it's hard to discern their digit ratio. Do you have any tricks for that by chance?
@@Abel.Abelson Hey Abel, I guess I only really check people who are interesting or extreme in their personalities. I have actually talked about the digit ratio studies with the person and they're always interested enough to present their hands for analysis. At least ones that aren't too extreme.
I believe im also a divergent more feminine thinker. I resonate a lot with your experience in school, workplace settings and socially in general.. Have a scheduled meeting to look into various potential neurodivergent diagnoses i might have. Havent testet my iq but always done well in school without much effort. Love to learn new topics with a seemingly never ending interest of human beings and the world. Got a bachelor in philosophy and theology for such a reason. And i love psychology. But again, socially in comparison with peers i often think im stupid because i think differently than what i perceive others do.
These are the things that fascinate me. I don't have any measuring instruments handy, but to the naked eye, the index fingers on both hands are slightly (not even an inch) longer than the ring fingers when looking at the palm but shorter when looking at the back of the hand (I don't know what measurement is more accurate.) According to research, that digit ratio should correspond to a female brain (I am a biological female BTW) so you would expect normal pre-natal testosterone levels with typical female brain patterns (a higher capacity empathizing, for example.) I even tried my hand at childcare with a short work experience, but that career path just wasn’t for me; I’m much more of a techie than a people person and I’m not one to be “touchy-feely.”
I was a major tomboy growing up (I still am at 31.) I can be boisterous, overconfident and reckless. Feminine interests & pursuits don’t appeal to me as much as sports, mechanics, computers, etc. and sometimes, when growing up, I thought I was "weird" because of it (I didn’t even realize I had an official ASD diagnosis until last year when I read my childhood psychiatric paperwork.) I'm on the autism spectrum (PDD-NOS to be exact.) I scored 72 (high analyzing) and 14 (low empathizing) on the Empathizing-Systemizing test (I care about how people feel, I’m just not the greatest at recognizing it, especially if they’re not direct) and I achieved average to high marks in many "masculine" disciplines (mathematics, science, PE, etc.) in my high school days.
Growing up, I heard some people say things like I should "act, dress, think etc. more like a girl" as if to shame me for my personality or the way my brain is wired, but I can't change that. I also have polycystic ovarian syndrome, which causes the ovaries to overproduce androgens (research is coming out saying it may be prenatal androgen levels that mess with the ovaries in-utero.) I don't know your opinions on Myers-Briggs personality tests, but I consistently get ENTJ (The Commander) or INTJ (The Architect) and what I score depends on how I feel about interpersonal relationships at the time.
I am a gay woman with ratio of 0.93 😁. I have always felt different since I was a kid. I was always told that I am clever and very bright, never believed it, still I do consider myself somewhere little above average. I took some tests during the years and always got above 135 to 140. I am an extroverted introvert, communicate with lots of different people and never had my company of more than 5, 6 people at once. Always had social anxiety, but it varies depending on my mood and general vibe at the moment. I used to manage a team of people at work and what stroke me was how people who are Best give themselves the lowest marks at appraisals and vice versa. Other thing is that often I do not agree with what the majority thinks which confuses me to these days, I can not always be right, still I have so many contradictions with the point of view society holds on many topics. I play some instruments and have very low motivation on doing anything else but the things that I have interest in. I battle this all the time and try to bw more open and proactive.. Usually with no results. Finally, I used to hate math and excel at music and literature, but managed to work 7 years in IT succeasfully, without a formal education, as I am a bit nerdy.. I want to accept people more openly and not just feel bored by them the majority of time 😆. Thanks for the videos.
wow we are the same person this is wild
Eww
Measuring with centimeters, I'm around .95 to .97. I've never taken an IQ test officially. But I've been of the opinion that those types of tests are usually biased to a particular type of intelligence, as you eloquently expressed in your video. I believe that one's intelligence quotient is reflected in one's daily interactions and decisions. Thank you for going over the 2D:4D ratio, I've always wondered what that was all about.
Great explanation and theory! Though there seems to be one thing left out and that's the testosterone levels during puberty, which also affects the brain and it's development. I have a low 2:4d ratio and actually noticed the finger length difference as a child as opposed to other kids in my class and always wondered why that was. Years later I discovered it was also linked to ADHD/ADD which I have been diagnosed for. Even if you have been exposed to lower prenatal testosterone levels you can still "make up for that" during puberty. I believe you when you state that you've noticed two different types of intellectual giftedness, but even though I have the clear sign of high prenatal testosterone levels I've always been pretty much like how you describe yourself now. My personality is less flexible then my intellect. If that makes any sense? I always see many ways of solving a problem instead of just one. I've always been the kid in the back of the classroom, trying to stay undetected. But my brain has always been highly overactive and over analysing everything non-stop. But I was always able to keep full focus on things that interested me. I was like a nerd/geek, but without showing the social awkwardness. Because I was able to adept and blend in and hide it from others, while it was actually closer to my true nature. If I was getting teased I was able to play it off as a joke or by being witty and sarcastic and sometimes turn the tables on them without ever being mean or aggressive myself. So I feel like I fall in-between the two extremes of what you described and thought it might have something to do with puberty and being exposed to testosterone for a second time. I'm highly sensitive and emphatic while still having clear traits of the lower digit ratio. So I thought I would share that with you to see if anything makes sense with what you've learned about this subject. Since I haven't done my research on this subject like you, but I think I might start with it soon. ;) It's all very interesting. Thank you for the video!
Yes, there is also the influence of adolescent testosterone which has a big effect too, not so much on the "anatomy" of the brain (which parts are bigger, which smaller, how the connections work etc), but on the function and on behavior. You could see it like this, testosterone has two main effects: prenatally, when the brain is in full early development, it has an organizational effect. Later on in life, it's like a psycho-active or neuro-active substance, like a drug, that alters behavior. Furthermore, prenatal T "primes" the brain so that later on in life, T exposure has more effect. So the two (prenatal and postnatal) interact in interesting ways... And there is a big difference in personality traits and behavior between high prenatal T people who have high, or low, postnatal T.
@@Abel.Abelson Thank you for that clear explanation. I want to do some more research about this subject now. Very interesting stuff!
Mine is a 1, I have a super tough time with systematic jobs, but I Iove intellectual conversation, books, analysis, data, psychology, sociology, but I get bored quickly and lose focus. I really appreciate you any advice on focus because I’ve ruin a lot of my life on procrastination
That would be low prenatal testosterone. Or in other words, a more "feminine brain". That coincides nicely with your characteristics. Others ruin their lives running after competitive goals and material objectives. You ruin it on procrastination. It's more about a mindset than what you do, I think. I think nobody can ruin - or succeed for that matter - their life. Those verbs don't apply to the noun. If that makes sense... Life is not a cake you bake and that you either succes or ruin. It actually goes way beyond "you" and you just see a glimpse of it, consciously. And your level of control over it is a actually minute.
Ratio is 1. High IQ. Exact same as you man. Everything you said was spot on with me. It’s nice to hear why I am so different from other intellectuals.
That's great, glad I could be of help 🙂.
Interesting. I’m 16, and my ratio is somewhere between 0.91-0.92. I strive for structure, and have perfectionist inclinations. Even from early childhood, I would have hyper obsessive tendencies on unusual things, like physics and botany. My kindergarten teacher thought I had Asperger syndrome because she described me as a “little professor” (an example of being a “little professor” would be while other kids were playing, I would be chatting with the adults about various subjects like science or even politics). I never got tested though because I never had major problems interacting with other kids, which is a hallmark characteristic of Asperger syndrome. However, I’ve always been a bit strange and never resonated with the typical student crowds. I may have some further reading ahead of me as I find this topic quite fascinating.
Have you taken an iq test
Very interesting indeed!👍
I have low pre natal testosterone and believe I am highly intelligent, I’ve always felt like an IQ test wouldn’t do my type of intelligence justice or show that I’m high in intelligence, so I’ve never taken one, this explains a lot .
1.02. I felt the same thing about IQ tests. Did some of those in the internet, not the real ones. But I'm always over thinking about the problem. I go really far and when I finally solve it, it's very simple. Does it have something to do with sexual orientation? I read something about prenatal hormones and sexuality. Would like to know...
This is really interesting. On my right hand my ratio was around 0.98, my left was around 0.95. I can see how in a way I'm a little bit in the middle of these as well, however, I do tend to be more mathematically/systematically inclined.
If you're a girl, that's more of a low digit ratio, so rather high prenatal testosterone, which would logically coincide with more systemizing. For a boy it would be about normal/regular.
Yeah, I am a girl, so that makes sense.
I believe I think very much like you, but in a lot of ways I'm masculine in my thinking and my finger ratio too. I look at IQ tests the same way as you and often see more than one answer. I am reserved but also very confident in a lot of ways, but who knows whats real and what is my mind compensating for something. Maybe I'm truly reserved and try my best to believe I'm confident or maybe its the other way around.
Omg i can sooo much relate, thats insane. I am also a male with a low prenatal testosterone level, my finger ratio is about 1.05 or something like this, so very high. I am also that kind of person that think of much possibilities and more divergent then convergent. What you say about IQ test is ecactly the same I experienced. After i get this point like you, i was able to solving then much quicker and better. In real iq tests, before i got this point, my IQ was measured about 120 to 125. But here an example why that cant be accurate (I doesnt care because I think using intelligence is much more important then have them, so just for science).
My mathematical IQ was measured at 107, I was around 14. But 1 year later I went to university though school and learned higher mathematics (very fast what my tutor said) and found an mathematical theorem and was able to find a proof for it. My tutor was very surprised by my solution ways, that were definetly not convergent but very beautiful in the end (just the math is beautiful, someone who likes math knows what I mean). :D Mathematics is of course very analytical and logically (what i love), but has also a very artistic site. I also enjoy philosophy and computer science and are not that people guy. But I more underestimate myself then overestimate, but I work on it. I am also very competetive. So yeah, in the end thats not that easy and are really only directions you give.
I have the feeling, to activate my brain I need to feel comfortable but also very passionate about something or be in a critical situation, otherwise I am just not thinking and just guessing something, thats what needed for allday acitivity. So in school I was rarely seen as gifted, only when it comed to creative works. I cant work with structures from others and I need to see somtheing in what i learn, otherwise my brain cant do something with that.
Sry for bad english eventually. Greetings from Germany.
Yes, totally agreed. Glad you can relate! And thanks for the comment!
I cannot relate at all, my ratio is too low.
I was diagnosed with aspergers recently, had my IQ tested at 126 based off the wais test. I need one thing in specific that serves as meaning for my life, other people seem to distribute what they value, they care to some extent about everything/general aspects, whereas i care about one thing and neglect everything else, except for physical pain because i can't help but care to avoid physical pain. I need to find that obsession or I get depressed quickly. Say i had an obsession with collecting toy cars (just an example) and if i had to choose between losing those toy cars in order to have a well balanced life i. E you get alot of money, good health and social life ect, or i keep those cars and have an unbalanced life i. E poor income, poor health with no social life. Id choose to keep the cars. I get alot of satisfaction from creating systems, so I'm probably what you say, masculine oriented, a systemizer.
I don't constantly revolve around my obsession, but at the end of the day it's what i lean back on as a reason for caring about life. There's times i am impulsive and unfortunately i think i have to call myself an attention seeker, i enjoy competition alot, and i try to show off alot . I have moments where i have this strong urge to engage in some hard physical activity, i could be casually walking and here comes this urge to start sprinting, lift something heavy, debate/argue someone. Debating could sometimes be another form of aggression.
I'm not gifted per the IQ test (118 - some test by the people sort of involved with Cambridge Analytica, 125 - Mensa Norway) and I have a low 2D:4D ratio, which would indicate a masculine/testosterone-heavy brain. I would say that I am however not very rigid, or at least try consciously change the underlying principles of my worldview when exposed to new information, though I perhaps naturally tend to get stuck in rigid patterns - if general inertia and satisfaction with convenience can be conceived of as that. Getting stuck with nostalgia and vivid memories is definitely indicative of rigidity as you described it, so it's probable that this is an example of the T levels and cognition type aligning as per your explanation.
In any case, I think that having an open mind and being very flexible are more important for the brain, especially as neuroplasticity withers as one grows older. I hope to maintain mine as I continue to age.
This is a question I ask often; in a philosophical sense of thinking about it.
I am 17. 2/4 ratio of 0.926. Took iq test half a year ago with 131 as result. I have top grades in technical school. Great video, really explains a lot
Great, glad it was helpful!
Interesting I had the same measurements and a very similar IQ. I studied physics and engineering. I am now an engineer Building and inventing plasma reactors. I do get bothered by dominance hierarchy’s and tend to feel myself getting aggressive when I see that someone is not necessarily competent but they’re because of seniority or friendship.
My 2D-4D ratio is about .88. You explained my personality pretty well. I probably am over confident sometimes, my twin brother is the same way. I like combat sports and competition but I also like learning new things that are interesting, that's why I'm here. I don't like talking to people but I know how to. I also don't like when other guys try to display like they're dominant when I'm around. I just read certain body language and I get the urge to put them in their place, not exactly sure how I can put it. Interesting information. I also don't have asperger's.
I have the same exact digit ratio (0.888…9)as you and you’ve described me and how I am exactly. Personality wise and same interests as you as well. Do you have a deeper voice? I have a pretty deep voice so I’m curious if there is a correlation with this and 2D:4D ratio.
@@UnknownUser-nu8ny its true that low 2D:4D ratio will invokes super masculine traits such as dominance, deep voice and even bigger dick because of testosterone effects
Is it the left hand being measured?
Its weird because i have a low ratio on my left hand. long ring finger and shorter index finger. The right has more of a 1:1 ratio.. thoughts?
I have longer 4 th than 2nd, but not very significantly. I share the story with you of not feeling any superior to my peers, even though I exceled in school, so I believe I am not dominant/arogant type.
Moreover throughout life, though first I was at engineering, I finished degree in political science at 33 and became much more sensing - I basically feel/sense what other people have in minds rather than listen to their words.
I want to thank the TH-cam algorithm for giving me your video
Hi any videos from martin voracek,sanjay kumar,maharaj singh about dorsal measurment?
I have not known about this digit ration relative to testosterone levels in men and women. Will be doing my own research.
The finger test gives me a number of 1.04 indicating a feminine brain. How well your claims fit my personality, varies.
I've always found math easy, and right now I'm doing my PhD on that very subject. I was also easily recognised as gifted
when I was a child. The peers often found me a weird and maybe a bit too straightforward person. I also find myself more
of a logical rather than an emotional person.
I don't really want to assert dominance to others, or aggress them, but I'm not doubtful of myself either. Rather, I think I'm pretty
self-confident.
For evidence to support the femininity claim on myself, I also did decently on languages but not as well as math. I'm also interested
in the topic of how math should be taught to children and have considered a teaching career. Also I'm not that confident on some
social areas such as relationships, on the other hand in things related to expertise I rely on myself a lot, and I also have very strong
opinions on many things which I'm ready to say out loud.
Perfectly explained. Keep it up 👍 If you study all saints, you will find how they try to redirect our mind to the Higher Intelligence.
Hi Abel. First of all, thanks for this. I am ; indeed; as you put it, intellectually gifted. Such is the case, that, despite I had never thought about this in the words your using to share the idea here, I had already, quite easily, figured it out all by my self.
So right while watching your video I just measured my fingers as indicated and my digital ratio thing is more than one, 1,0123 more or less. Actually my fingers are very woman-like, as a matter of fact, most of women have wider and shorter fingers than mine lol. That also explains why girls don't feel sexually or romantically attracted to me.
On systematizing: I can do it, but it's like when you sink a beach ball into the water, you can do it through applying some effort, and maybe you can hold it on down there for a while, but at the very moment that you relax yourself a bit it will rush up to the surface as a super sonic rocket hahahah. So it's quite funny, I actually like to do it, but I have to be very careful because I can easily oversystematize and then it ends up being some infinite, self-sustaining super complex code-like web of concepts (or whatever) that nobody understands, but when I manage to understand the pattern that is supposed to be fulfilled, I do it quite good, although it depends on the level of complexity of that pattern, if it's too rigid, isolated, exclusive, superficial or foolish, then probably I'll have a bad time.
And well, you know, I had the typical feminine-brained boy problems, loneliness, drugs, low self-steem, lack of confidence, etc... But eventually and with some effort I was able to... mmm... how to put it?... to level up the character (me), so to speak. Now I don't feel the need for drugs, have a regular, healthy self -steem, am good socializing. I'm still a loner, but that's not a problem anymore. I entertain my self writing essays, novels and tales, watching youtube videos, series and movies, and so on, you know.
The other thing is that, I used to think that I was spiritually enlightened, you know? cause the way in which my mind works allows me to see the whole, so to speak. I can see the machine, so there's no space in me for believing or faith, or blind spots in my understanding, it implies that I can see that such thing as "I" doesn't exist as a real thing by itself (since the idea of "I" is a believe), and the awareness of that fact, I think, is what they call "enlightenment" (Not talking about the mainstream new age religion fashion of these days on internet, but about the real thing). Another thing about this is that if yes, it would only applied for the feminine kind of giftedness, since the masculine is more inclined towards fragmentation, and wherever there is fragmentation there will be an ego. So, I wonder, how normal, or how rare, is for a human being to exist without a sense of individual self or ownership of the body and mind (still possessing the natural, biological, socializing abilities), and does that have something to do with intelectual giftedness, or non intelectual giftedness?
I would love to read your opinion about this, thanks.
ad ,
Hi, I can relate to most of what you write there, it applies mostly to me too. In a strict sense, the lack of sense of individual self is not related to intellectual giftedness. Intellectual giftedness is simply scoring higher than 98% of the population on a specific test.
I've had these bouts of non-self, but I now think it's just the mind doing acrobatics. At the time, I had a Zen master, who simply said (and very truly I think): "yes, no problem, but it's not enlightenment, continue." I think we "feminine brained" people tend to have a very powerful imagination and a tendency toward psychosis. In the end, yes, of course, there is no self, but the self, of course, doesn't accept that, and that's how it is ;) No problem actually.
@@Abel.Abelson
Yes, you're right Abel, enlightenment (assuming that such a concept has conceptual validity) and intellectual giftedness are not (at least for the sake of pragmatic understanding) related in any way.
By the way, where are you from? I'm curious because of your accent.
Have you ever dabbled in Socionics? I got into personality theory for years and I have found it to be the best system for understanding myself with MBTI cognitive functions coming in second. It may be interesting for you to look into as it has descriptors for this masculine/aggressive aspect you are speaking of and just general categorizing of yourself which can be really helpful.
Categorising yourself is not the way towards self-knowledge, it's a way of avoiding nuance. Also, MBTI is a pseudoscientific oversimplification of Jung's original theory
My ratio is 0.89. But I feel more Identified with what you described as men with low prenatal testosterone levels. I'm very competitive and systematic but insecure and anxious at the same time, I'm also too lazy to memorize, I may have more memory than most people but I'm not like other autistic guys who know a ton of things about different topics. I don't think I'm intellectually gifted though, but I'm autistic and good at finding patterns.
Well thank you Abel. I'm at 130 iq, been researching on giftedness and premature birth, behavior.
i was a premature baby (34wk) and i have around a .88 or 87, would that have anything to do with it? i've heard older mothers produce more testosterone
My ratio is pretty low at 0.915 (2D = 75mm, 4D = 82mm) but I'd consider my brain to fall somewhere in the middle between masculine and feminine. My personality is pretty feminine though. My personality traits are the complete opposite of what he mentioned at 5:46. I haven't gotten my iq tested but I score between 130-140 according to some online tests. Very interesting
Maybe check how to measure it more accurately
When I do math problems I find myself more interested in the people being described than in the math. Seems like an example of diverging.
This is only one of many factors which influence how the brain develops and then what methods then develop In that brain as it learns how to think. For instance, it is easy to do a check to see which hand is dominant, but neglecting to notice what abilities the other hand currently has, could have, or if the other hand even exists. I can just as easily think convergent or divergent, interpolation or extrapolation, concrete or abstract. Yet my memory is terrible and so is my ability to predict what normal people might think, so it's just NOT so simple. But for SURE we would all love to know how this piece fits the bigger puzzle.
I see intelligence like the minds eye. Several factors can affect your vision like pressure or glucose levels. ( in the case of the mind hormones and neurotransmitters/receptors). Divergent and convergent thinking have to be balance in order to obtain maximum efficiency iq.... However I do believe there are powerful brains whose attention is regulated over a larger area (divergent thinker) which leads to great creativity and outside of the box thinking but not convergent thinking. If you are to rigid, as you said, there is a correlation with Autism and Aspergers. If you are to broad u can’t process effectively, hence we need 20/20 vision to be perfect. personality emotional stability can and will influence your results on iq test. Explanation is not all inclusive but that is what I have for now.
I have a slightly longer ring finger, but I relate to having a more feminine brain - empathizing, associative thinking, seeing things from many perspectives. I experience frustration talking deeply with rigid thinkers, no matter how genius. I think in pictures and lightening fast, but explaining how I got from point A to point B has been a challenge. Words have felt like a foreign language that I am constantly translating to.
I know a guy who is an extremely rigid thinker and is also extremely emotional (though he doesn’t see it!), he gets angered easily, especially when someone doesn’t see eye to eye with him. It is extremely exhausting to deal with him. He has a longer index finger (estrogen brain). I am a female with a longer ring finger and I can relate to how you describe yourself, I have a photographic memory, I am not very emotional (I have my highs and lows but they don’t run my life), I am more calm and I am empathetic in a practical manner (instead of comforting someone with hugs and sweet words, I will just quietly listen to them vent, or I will offer to help them with their chores for eg). I think testosterone brained people are more into stoicism and do not let their emotions dictate their actions, not that they lack empathy or creative thinking. Estrogen brain may be more sensitive and emotional, more people-oriented and much better at displaying emotional empathy (not that they are necessarily more empathetic).
Yes! Exactly, this is what I do with this knowledge.
I come from a more feminine brain, so I am developing my masculinity through choice, ie..
When I see a problem my brain scans as many possible solutions so I can use the best one, this is my femininity,
Now that i have developed that way of problem solving I now use it and trust it as best i can, to be assertive in my decision is the outcome, this is my masculinity.
The more I trust this, the more I hit my target.
An analogy is like walking, I don't say left right left right, I know this now, this process is in my subconscience, ie if I want to go here or there, I decide 'this is where I'm going' then I go and my legs work realy well, when I don't trust this process.. I trip.
0.91, i'm not intellectually gifted (115 iq) but i'm very creative and try to improve and understand my masculanity everyday to one day become a real man. I'm not that aggresive or into any combat sports but I do get competitive and over self-confident at times... I'm still 17 but one thing i learned so far is that aggressiveness doesn't take you anywhere, assertiveness does.
very good video mr abel. I measured my fingers according to your standards and the ratio was 0,92. However, visibly, from the top of the hand the ring finger seems way bigger than the index finger, when extending the fingers and just looking, so could it be that in my case the calculation could be different?
And I have a suspicion of light Aspergers, so it could go together.
0.96, I have always been very creative and I do a lot of both creative and systematizing work (software developing) every day. I feel like my brain is very flexible and perhaps would feel a bit limiting to think about it in a rigid & mutually exclusive way. Nevertheless, very interesting, thank you.
You're welcome, I'm glad you found it interesting. 0.96 is rather normal for a man... But prenatal testosterone is of course only one of many factors (and the digit ratio is just a noisy proxy of it). Still, in many cases it does make sense.
Man w. 0.986 of 2D/4D ratio... An aeronautical engineer that experienced an existential crisis even before finishing my college studies because I couldn't see any similarity with my colleagues.
i'm 7.7/8.7 = 0.885, whenever i took those online iq tests i got 140-150 ish range. Schooling never interested me even at so called "elite" college but I was able to do pretty well nonetheless without much effort. I remember writing a 120+ page senior thesis paper for my economics/mathematics degree in exactly 48 hours (I basically procrastinated for a whole year until it was due in 2 days and just sat down and wrote at page/30mins speed without eating or sleeping... somehow still got an A on that paper). I'm now 33 years old and pretty much bored with how life is like under this late stage industrialism/capitalism. But I see a massive change coming soon with advent of automation and AI technology that will make industrial epoch's principles that encoded our education, work, politics, religion, philosophy obsolete. I taught myself coding and am currently working on a project that may help people realize their true power and authentic work as human beings and why AI can not substitute us for that. I don't know how to find other people like me to work on this project together so I'm working on it alone. It's hard and maybe I need to give up for now because I have to participate in 'economy' to make money to survive. Like your criticism of schooling in another video, 'recipes' don't give me much help in structuring or concretizing some abstract thoughts like what it means to be a human or a better human. I kind of generalized some thoughts of mine in my website projectbloom2020.com
I'm not sure what made me to write such a long comment about myself but it makes me feel happy that I may not be alone after all. Thanks for your videos.
Hi there. The link you sent doesn't work.. Just wanted to inform you :)
Wow, The website is just incredible, I’m completely in line with your views
an interesting way to view different types of intelligence. This helped me understand the more feminine peoples way to express themselves better.
Great! Glad you liked it! Thanks for commenting :) What type are you?
@@Abel.Abelson Definitely the high testosterone type, i never done a real Iq tests (did some kind of test at a very young age that only measured to an iq equivalent of 125 and i got the max score. ) but i did the one on Mensa Dk 2 times and got 132 and 138, so i would assume i got some chance to join Mensa if i did the test.
I def have some problems with overconfidence tho, objectively speaking a i am pretty good at the things i do but i still tend to assume my ability is higher then what it actually is.
Also my finger ratio is what you would assume it is going by the theory.
I also always had a hard time in social settings generally being more interested in things rather then people.
@@christoffersjostedt624 Interesting! It all does fit together in most cases, in my experience... (prenatal testosterone, digit ratio, characteristics, ...). Thanks for commenting!
It's literally yinyang and I love that
Thank you
0,97
I totally get what you said about endless possibilities and narrowing my view
Kia ora/hello! So my ratio came to be 0.986 after much remeasuring because they are almost identical in length. I can be overly empathetic that I can almost feel like I'm living another persons experience, and I have an insatiable passion for science. I have this weird connection to the land, certain areas give off different 'vibes' for me. Sometimes I think I'm tuned into an energy of a place or person. I suffer from depression and anxiety, and I'm apparently gifted (I took a test with an educational psychologist on the weschler test). I'm definitely divergent, with my testing I didn't know how to answer and gave almost every conceivable 'right' answer! On one question he asked there were 5 possible answers, and I gave all five. When I was pregnant with my daughter I swore I was carrying a boy, but after watching this video - yes, my dominant, confident, extremely intelligent, highly ambitious future leader of a daughter must have a masculine dominant brain. I'll have to ask her her ratio (she's away studying law). I'm an Indigenous Māori from New Zealand. Very interesting video 🙂👍
Hi there and greetings from the other side of the planet :) That's quite some neurodivergent stuff, interesting, thanks for sharing!
What I hear is that we should really do test for all kinds of intelligence and make a conclusion of that..and help children in school to evolve in areas that they are gifted in.
I think some people are told their whole lives that they're intelligent. Consequently, they feel the need to prove it - constantly. This is because they begin to tie their self worth to their intelligence. They'll do things such as decorating their sentences with sophisticated vocabulary in order to appear more intelligent (case in point haha), discussing rather abstract, and infamously mentally challenging topics as a way of signalling their superior intellect. This leads others to believe they're not intelligent when in proximity to the perceived "intelligent" person because said "others" may not be displaying traits that the "intelligent" person is expressing.
I was told from a young age that I was very "gifted". Because of this, and just a couple other big reasons, I got into the toxic game of competing with my peers to prove to them (and myself) in subtle ways that I am in fact "gifted" (since the age of 3 lmao - little shit!). And regardless of whether it's the case or not, it was a huge self esteem boost for a long time.
But then it gets exhausting. Eventually I let my guard down with it. Became more secure in what I believed. So I stopped such behaviors. I stopped playing that game. Eventually became like everyone else. More focused on what matters in life.
I actually became more tolerant of others slower learning speeds. I accepted that everyone marches to beat of their own drum :)
I'd see someone in classrooms throughout schooling, and I could often see these habits they were displaying. All the other kids would say "damn, _______ is really smart". Always was an eye roll that they'd fallen for such a stupid trick in my eyes. I'd end up spending time with this person to test them. I was always met with the same confirmation - it was all a facade. The type of person to tell you that they can "not study" and get full marks, is 100% of the time bullshitting. 100% of the time.
Do you really think that they can just figure out the mechanisms of evolution, or any other theory that took a lifetime worth of work from one of the brightest minds in history, with any prior knowledge of said concept, in an exam (where there's limited time, and lots of pressure), and then go and answer the exam questions flawlessly? The odds seem a little less likely now - I'd expect.
Then I ran into some really bright people. Friends now. For a long time I thought they were a lot brighter than me. I struggled with this idea (ego hurt). They displayed such intellect, always had something sophisticated to chat about, always radiating signs of intelligence.
It was only tonight, and as I'm typing this, that I realized they're still playing that game. That ego driven competition for self esteem. They're still fighting over it - little do they know. I don't think I'll ever say anything, but it was a profound epiphany for me - and yes, I am certain that this claim is correct and true.
Well I can confirm that a low ratio may be somewhat related. I have aspergers and and a low ratio of around 0.90-0.91
Very interesting! You recognize yourself in the general characteristics related to high prenatal testosterone?
Love you man...!
Thank you! 🙂
Have a look at the books too! amzn.to/3paQsmz 😉
@@Abel.Abelson Off course.
I’m very skeptical of this, very much feels like a lot of correlations being tied together. Granted I haven’t read or studied the papers being referenced. The point, I very much appreciate you stating these are your personal conclusions instead of treating these findings as a natural law.
Yes, exactly. It's very much under investigation, and hormones in general are still rather mysterious to science, let alone their effect on the brain, and even more, on mind and behaviour. Still, there's something there, somewhere...
Cool, the ratio between my fingers is about 0,98 and I'm highly empathic but otherwise rational. I recently learned about _affective_ and _cognitive_ empathy and perhaps that is something that relates to this topic. It's as straightforward as you'd imagine -there are two spots within the brain, one is for empathy called affective empathy and the other for sympathy called cognitive empathy. One feels what others feel, the other imagines what others would feel.
I've taken online iq-tests recently. When I do my result is anything from 108 to 147. I know that there is a mathematical formula or some rule to every puzzle but I'm not happy to go there and look for it. By default I look for any pattern and if it's good enough to serve then it's good enough for me. Their puzzles come designed with trapdoors for us to fall into so you have to keep that in mind and get good at finding out what they're looking for.
Yes, exactly, it's all about learning which kind of answer (of all the possible ones) they think is the only correct one :) While in reality, there are lots of very good answers that all serve in varying contexts around the same question. Kind of turning yourself into someone with really very little imagination and flexibility, who only can imagine one (very conformist and dull) context, and answering from that perspective. And do that quickly and consistently. Complete torture. I totally loathe IQ tests.
Yes, I know the two kinds of empathy, cognitive empathy is actually nothing else than being well-trained and executing nicely all the rules they stuffed in the head, without "feeling" why. Gives these creepy results of people smiling at you and being nice, with completely dead eyes - and they generally feel morally superior because they don't react very emotionally so they consider themselves to be the better robot, more according to the book :)
0.98 for a man is on the high ("feminine", low prenatal testosterone) side, but not extreme either. Still makes you a bit "off" probably, in terms of interests, ways of thinking and acting, etc.
@@Abel.Abelson Perhaps I am off, haha! Fair to say I'm an unusual sort I suppose. Not that I see anything unusual about myself but other people do and looking at it objectively I can accept that they are right.
It's not exactly an interest but I am quite invested in spirituality, working my way towards no-mind. It is not new-age or about any beliefs but to make the most out of this living experience and to discover something beyond the mind. And a real challenge at that!
There is a few naturally born super-geniuses who can make the journey without so much effort, but for most of us it takes months upon months of consistent meditation to overcome the mind.
I think that any "interests" that we have ironically makes less out of life, it is like a sidetrack. So I am interested in everything and nothing in particular...but try telling that to the guy next to you and he'll give you a funny look.
@@oscarl.3563 Yes, I exactly described it like that in my book too. Interested in everything but nothing in particular.
There's nothing wrong with your mind you know, no need to overcome it, just to get to know it. Which is enough of a challenge as it is :)
@@Abel.Abelson So how would you get to know it? By what method?
Our minds are like drivers. No-mind is to put the mind in the passenger seat where it rightfully belongs. You may still access it but something else takes the wheels and the drivers seat is but empty.
Emptiness is one of those things that can not be explained to someone who has not experienced it. What is an experience to someone who has not experienced it? Myth, perhaps. Nor does emptiness or no-mind appear valuable to the mind.
You can live an ordinary life with the mind reigning the wheels of your 'machine' but for those who become serious about living life beating the mind becomes their life's quest. Otherwise it will keep on interfering and you'll be lost in thoughts no matter what you do: sitting, standing, walking. Not to mention the negativity and worries.
@@oscarl.3563 How the mind gets to know the mind? By observing itself. There's no-one who can know yourself (your mind, the mind) as good as you, if you're up for it and ready to face the consequences.
But you need kindness and genuine interest. Like a really sympathetic therapist or friend, who truly tries to understand you, instead of change you. With the understanding change inevitably comes. Not the other way around.
While you're trying to beat and overcome, you'll never get any wiser about yourself because you won't be observing. You'll be trying to do something, to reach a goal, to succeed a change, and it will completely cloud your observation.
Personally I think one has to hit complete rock bottom before being able to do this. If not, you (your mind)'ll always try to squirm your/its way out of facing the truth. It has to be: truth or die, and life needs to have brought you right up to that point, with your bloody nose against the bottom of the ocean and a 6000 ton troll sitting on top of you squeezing the last breath out of your lungs and sticking its tongue in your ears for fun.