Thanks heaps Matt. I just bought a 1954 Martin Baritone on ebay from the US (I live in Australia) and have just disassembled it as I am having a go at learning how to do these sorts of things myself and your video was invaluable.
Many thanks for the sermon, Matt. That's not a pejorative, either. This is as true for clarinets as saxes, of course, with the vagaries of working with the wood as well. For those who love to get hands on, this was a good way to get your head right about how you think the mechanism works. The lapping compound lesson really helped drive it home - you have to think about the process of playing the horn from the viewpoint of the material that is grinding away in that tube.
Most certainly. I would guess that spring tensions could be improved, check that everything is in adjustment and sealing well, and perhaps a few changes to your adjustment materials (especially sliding linkages) could improve things as well. I go through a pretty intensive process for my "new saxophone setup" as described on my website under the "repairs" heading; if you want to read through it that might give you an idea of what you might want to have looked at.
Thanks so much for your video, Matt. I have an art deco-styled (ie beautiful) silver-plated alto sax made in Europe, probably as a stencil. Don't know who made it but it has the letters EB etched onto the top of the main tube. The word "World" is etched onto the front of the bell, along with an etching of a naked woman. (Try looking up World Saxophone on google!) I suspect it is quite old and after viewing your clip, I am determined to take better care of it. I had added sewing maching oil to the very spots you mentioned, and this improved its playability, but will get it properly serviced soon, thanks to your advice.
Hi Matt, next time you are changing out Mother of Pearls or Abalone key touches, could you make a video about it, especially the epoxy or cement that you use. Thanks.
Man you got deep at the end, I appreciate that. I have a professional horn from around 2001 (Yamaha) I just bought a late 60s beuscher tenor and I felt a connection to old school players when I play it. Hopefully my Yamaha can do the same to someone 60 years from now!
Thanks! No idea re: using motor oil- but I imagine if it was the right stuff that is what professionals would use, and we don't. The real stuff is cheap enough that for DIY purposes you can get a lifetime supply of heavy oil and pivot grease for $35, so I'd change over to that.
wow-wow, talk about right to the point, eye opening, truly educational....I can go on & on. Basically? The BEST 20 minutes of time I invested. To do this for little or nothing, I feel a 'Thank You" is the least that can be done...I'[m letting you KNOW Matt....Thank You, Truly eye opening....down to the weight of the oil? Magnificent. I am 60 years old been fooling around with this beautiful instrument about 20years now & if I understood more of the structure of music itself, I'd be a really decent player, I just cant get past those 5th's & 6th's....the art of matching notes & creating riffs. Do you have any kind of videos like that? I took accordian lessons when I was younger so I have a basic understanding of music but the further I went the harder its been. Im semi-retired so I have more time to devote to the sax, whatever you can help with I would really appreciate. Once again Matt, really buddy, TOP SHELF stuff.
Study music theory from books; find a beginners workbook to learn the language of it before going on to advanced material. Memorize the cycle of fourths, and know what sharps and flats are in every key. Jam on major scales, until you can make up melodies in every key, and pick out familiar tunes by ear. Play with the radio or recordings to get in tune with them. get some lessons. Get Mark Levine's book, "The Jazz Piano Book", to learn the structure of music. Whatever instrument you play, a musician should also take up piano. The layout of the notes is highly analogous to sax, so the two will help each other, and you can practice an electric keyboard (Yamaha p-45 is good, and for only about $400) late at night without disturbing anyone if you use headphones. It will also build up your hand coordination.
Thanks Matt, I read your website and your sequence is really exhaustive. I wish you were in the UK, but I'm sure my tech. will do a good job as the Selmer Alto which he set up, is perfect. All the Best, Chris.
Hi! If I send you some clear pictures of a tenor sax (Selmer Balance) I have an opportunity to purchase, can you tell me if it's re-lacquered? It would be a big investment for me, but if it's what I hope it is, it's totally worth all the ramen I'd be eating. Your evaluation/opinion would really help. Thanks, in advance, for considering my request and for all your great videos.
Hi, Matt! Excellent video! And I watched the whole thing without coffee. I guess you would call me a previous steward of this beautiful 1938 Selmer Balanced Action Alto. I really look forward to seeing more videos as you restore it. I sure know it ended up in the right hands. Willy Odell
Oh. OK. Great vid. Wondering about the possible health effects of using naptha, lighter fluid etc. entering through the skin. As you note, use in well-ventilated area, yet you are using the naptha with bare hands.
Hey Matt, huge fan of your videos! Im 23 years old, and I have overhauled (clean/re-pad) a 1932 conn naked lady. I think it would be pretty cool if you made a video on how you keep a horn organized when disassembling it during an overhaul. It would be very helpful for a lot of your viewers. (personal experience: I had the conn fully re-assembled with one key left, and I realized that it was the right-hand alt g# key LOOOLLL that sucked)
Hi Matt, Truth is, I never have change oil on my 85 alto horn, will do that after seeing Y video, tnx for tips! My base instr is trumpet, do Y work on those? PS! One guy wanted my old saxoph. He have sold those horns long ago, he wanted my horn for museum sort of, and he gave me a brand new John Packer china made Yanigasawa replica, no monney in betwin, so no oiling job for me, it looks to be a full days work?DS JohnnyDBergh
Where did you pick up that container you have the naphtha in. I got some naphtha at Home Depot and would like to put it in a more manageable container and the one you have is awesome
Hey Matt, thanks for the very helpful video. I am going to change my saxophone oil as well, but I don't know which brand oil is good. So, do you have some good advice for me! thank you.
i've seen him use the musicmedic dot com 'ultimax' system. he said he uses the low viscosity for rods and the 'pivot and roller' lubricant (which he said is 'sticky'). TimTools (on TH-cam) is a former teacher who plays a beautiful 'student' Buescher Aristocrat Tenor which he bought in the early 1970s said he uses just plain old 3 in 1.
I've heard that on smaller instruments that thinner oil is better, and for vintage instruments and larger instruments, thicker oil is better. What's the truth? Also, is grease ever used, outside of corks? Rollers?
Dear Matt, I've always wondered about your stance on Pad Savers. I have been told that they are essential to the health of my pads but I have also been told that they are bad for pads. What do you think about them?
I am a fan of a good pull-through swab, but the pad savers that don't drop hairs (most do, I think its the HW Pad Saver that doesn't but I'm not sure, ask someone who knows before buying) seem to be fine. The ones that drop hairs are pretty bad for the horn IMHO.
Hello, thankyou for the video. My recently professionally adjusted alto still has an annoying vibration going on that affects upper register notes played mod loud. The only thing I can figure now is to try oiling as you describe. Any ideas???
Hi Matt, Thanks for a very interesting video. I have a new Yanagisawa SC992 curved soprano. The tonality is fine but the action is clunky and seems stiff compared with my Selmers. Do you think that it could be improved by a visit to a good technician? Chris.
If I use my horn as a bong will the byproducts of combustion gum up the oil? 😂😂 Just kidding, thanks for the videos!!! Very much appreciated by a newbie who wants to do basic maintenance correctly. I just took apart and cleaned and reassembled my old student alto before seeing this and I have yet to oil it. This is very timely to know how to do it correctly. I also have a “birth year” YAS-21 and will clean it correctly. Grease? Like bicycle hub bearing grease? I bet a very thin coating of that stuff would be good.
@@tpark89 I have a Ferree's compact bench motor and also a modified Emco Unimat that I use most of the time. If you email me, I can send you more details and photos.
With old mechanical cameras, the flautist's "COA" (clean-oil-adjust) is called "CLA" (clean-lubricate-adjust) - because "oil" would kill the springs-gears-clockwork extremely fine mechanism in the sense it "glues" parts to each other or slows them down to the point it does not function properly. That said, my engineer grandfather taught me that you do not need to lubricate, preferably do not lubricate, a mechanism where two different metals are in contact or softer metals that lubricate through their own wear. Old clocks using steel axles with brass gears where the steel axles run on holes in brass plates are proof of this. Wrist watches running much higher bpm use "jewels" to seat these steel axles. With a steel rod in brass tubes, the latter is the case and I wonder if Selmer actually lubricates when they build these instruments. Because of this. Anyhow, if I did this CLA myself (without the A - that's for pros), I would definitely follow this approach completely. Mr. Stohrer's was a great video to watch!
@@jpdj2715 Certainly something to think about, research, that would “revolutionize” how a sax is put together. I think though, after over a century of saxophone, and other instruments, development the builders, designers, and repair persons would have figured this out. Maybe not lubing dissimilar metals is only in certain applications. Maybe on the saxophone the action would be too slow or too noisy.
I had to read this several times to figure out that flutes do not, in fact, have GEARS in them. For a minute, my mind was totally blown... _"How can this be?!? How could I have missed the GEARS IN FLUTES for MY ENTIRE LIFE?!?"_ On another note, I may have just invented a viable mechanism for gears in flutes.
Machine shops use scotch brite pads to remove to last little bit of material from metal parts. Using this goes against what you are talking about here in general. That grit you are removing is some dirt, but it is also metal particulate that has been removed from the shaft due to the grime circulating. When you clean it with scotch brite, you are removing probably just as much material. No free lunch I suppose..
Depends on the "grit" of scotch brite you use how much comes off. I use the finest stuff I can find, which you can turn on a wheel in a bench motor against your skin and not get hurt. The stuff I see machine shops and other folks use is much more coarse, and would quickly remove skin and flesh if you tried the same thing. So while I suppose it could be removing some material, I would guess it is minute, and it is definitely not measurable with my micrometer, which goes to 1/10,000 of an inch.
Right, but any grit is still removing material. I suppose the loose mechanisms on old horns may be more attributed to the part with the hole in it, as it's softer than the steel shaft. Just making an observation, nice videos.
pretty sure that was my (at the time) 7 month old son giving my wife a hard time in another part of the house. shortly after this time period I bought an old Airstream camper and turned it into a repair shop, so I no longer work in the house!
You've obviously never driven the clapped out cars I've driven in the past. With most cars you stop for gas and check the oil I've owned cars you stopped for oil and checked the gas 🤣🤣🤣 my current trick had a bad leak for a while, took a quart every 2 days just to keep it on the stick.
Thanks Matt!
Very usefull!
As allways
Nice! Thanks very much. Makes total sense.
Thanks heaps Matt. I just bought a 1954 Martin Baritone on ebay from the US (I live in Australia) and have just disassembled it as I am having a go at learning how to do these sorts of things myself and your video was invaluable.
Seeing all of that dirt come off of the hinge tube is pure nightmare fuel. Great video.
Thanks. Just changed the oil on my Beaugnier baritone. It was the first time after 50 years i am afraid. What a difference!
how is the Baritone doing? would love to hear it! .....never mind...just found it on your channell! Awesome! : )
Many thanks for the sermon, Matt. That's not a pejorative, either. This is as true for clarinets as saxes, of course, with the vagaries of working with the wood as well. For those who love to get hands on, this was a good way to get your head right about how you think the mechanism works. The lapping compound lesson really helped drive it home - you have to think about the process of playing the horn from the viewpoint of the material that is grinding away in that tube.
Most certainly. I would guess that spring tensions could be improved, check that everything is in adjustment and sealing well, and perhaps a few changes to your adjustment materials (especially sliding linkages) could improve things as well. I go through a pretty intensive process for my "new saxophone setup" as described on my website under the "repairs" heading; if you want to read through it that might give you an idea of what you might want to have looked at.
Thanks so much for your video, Matt. I have an art deco-styled (ie beautiful) silver-plated alto sax made in Europe, probably as a stencil. Don't know who made it but it has the letters EB etched onto the top of the main tube. The word "World" is etched onto the front of the bell, along with an etching of a naked woman. (Try looking up World Saxophone on google!) I suspect it is quite old and after viewing your clip, I am determined to take better care of it. I had added sewing maching oil to the very spots you mentioned, and this improved its playability, but will get it properly serviced soon, thanks to your advice.
Hi Matt, next time you are changing out Mother of Pearls or Abalone key touches, could you make a video about it, especially the epoxy or cement that you use. Thanks.
Man you got deep at the end, I appreciate that.
I have a professional horn from around 2001 (Yamaha)
I just bought a late 60s beuscher tenor and I felt a connection to old school players when I play it.
Hopefully my Yamaha can do the same to someone 60 years from now!
Thanks!
No idea re: using motor oil- but I imagine if it was the right stuff that is what professionals would use, and we don't. The real stuff is cheap enough that for DIY purposes you can get a lifetime supply of heavy oil and pivot grease for $35, so I'd change over to that.
wow-wow, talk about right to the point, eye opening, truly educational....I can go on & on. Basically? The BEST 20 minutes of time I invested. To do this for little or nothing, I feel a 'Thank You" is the least that can be done...I'[m letting you KNOW Matt....Thank You, Truly eye opening....down to the weight of the oil? Magnificent. I am 60 years old been fooling around with this beautiful instrument about 20years now & if I understood more of the structure of music itself, I'd be a really decent player, I just cant get past those 5th's & 6th's....the art of matching notes & creating riffs. Do you have any kind of videos like that? I took accordian lessons when I was younger so I have a basic understanding of music but the further I went the harder its been. Im semi-retired so I have more time to devote to the sax, whatever you can help with I would really appreciate.
Once again Matt, really buddy, TOP SHELF stuff.
Study music theory from books; find a beginners workbook to learn the language of it before going on to advanced material. Memorize the cycle of fourths, and know what sharps and flats are in every key. Jam on major scales, until you can make up melodies in every key, and pick out familiar tunes by ear. Play with the radio or recordings to get in tune with them. get some lessons. Get Mark Levine's book, "The Jazz Piano Book", to learn the structure of music. Whatever instrument you play, a musician should also take up piano. The layout of the notes is highly analogous to sax, so the two will help each other, and you can practice an electric keyboard (Yamaha p-45 is good, and for only about $400) late at night without disturbing anyone if you use headphones. It will also build up your hand coordination.
Very professional video, Thank you for uploading it!
Thank you for making this video,really hepful.
Amazing work.
Hi Matt- yes, we are the stewards of these instruments-well put!
Thanks Matt, I read your website and your sequence is really exhaustive. I wish you were in the UK, but I'm sure my tech. will do a good job as the Selmer Alto which he set up, is perfect.
All the Best,
Chris.
2024 now, whats the going price for a complete overhaul on an alto sax ....?🤔
Hi! If I send you some clear pictures of a tenor sax (Selmer Balance) I have an opportunity to purchase, can you tell me if it's re-lacquered? It would be a big investment for me, but if it's what I hope it is, it's totally worth all the ramen I'd be eating. Your evaluation/opinion would really help. Thanks, in advance, for considering my request and for all your great videos.
Hi, Matt! Excellent video! And I watched the whole thing without coffee.
I guess you would call me a previous steward of this beautiful 1938 Selmer Balanced Action Alto. I really look forward to seeing more videos as you restore it. I sure know it ended up in the right hands.
Willy Odell
Thanks for the information.
Oh. OK. Great vid. Wondering about the possible health effects of using naptha, lighter fluid etc. entering through the skin. As you note, use in well-ventilated area, yet you are using the naptha with bare hands.
Hey Matt, huge fan of your videos! Im 23 years old, and I have overhauled (clean/re-pad) a 1932 conn naked lady. I think it would be pretty cool if you made a video on how you keep a horn organized when disassembling it during an overhaul. It would be very helpful for a lot of your viewers. (personal experience: I had the conn fully re-assembled with one key left, and I realized that it was the right-hand alt g# key LOOOLLL that sucked)
The thickest that will work without making the keys sluggish is best- independent of the size of the instrument.
Suggestions for DIY at getting the harder to reach key screws on and off? Is there a special screwdriver repair technicians buy?
Great video !
Hi Matt,
Truth is, I never have change oil on my 85 alto horn, will do that after seeing Y video, tnx for tips!
My base instr is trumpet, do Y work on those?
PS! One guy wanted my old saxoph. He have sold those horns long ago, he wanted my horn for museum sort of, and he gave me a brand new John Packer china made Yanigasawa replica, no monney in betwin, so no oiling job for me, it looks to be a full days work?DS
JohnnyDBergh
Where did you pick up that container you have the naphtha in. I got some naphtha at Home Depot and would like to put it in a more manageable container and the one you have is awesome
Great video - thank you! :)
Thank You, You are awesome, Thanks for the vids!!!!
Super video! Really helped me out.
Awesome man!
Hey Matt, thanks for the very helpful video. I am going to change my saxophone oil as well, but I don't know which brand oil is good. So, do you have some good advice for me! thank you.
i've seen him use the musicmedic dot com 'ultimax' system. he said he uses the low viscosity for rods and the 'pivot and roller' lubricant (which he said is 'sticky'). TimTools (on TH-cam) is a former teacher who plays a beautiful 'student' Buescher Aristocrat Tenor which he bought in the early 1970s said he uses just plain old 3 in 1.
I've heard that on smaller instruments that thinner oil is better, and for vintage instruments and larger instruments, thicker oil is better. What's the truth? Also, is grease ever used, outside of corks? Rollers?
Dear Matt, I've always wondered about your stance on Pad Savers. I have been told that they are essential to the health of my pads but I have also been told that they are bad for pads. What do you think about them?
I am a fan of a good pull-through swab, but the pad savers that don't drop hairs (most do, I think its the HW Pad Saver that doesn't but I'm not sure, ask someone who knows before buying) seem to be fine. The ones that drop hairs are pretty bad for the horn IMHO.
Hello, thankyou for the video. My recently professionally adjusted alto still has an annoying vibration going on that affects upper register notes played mod loud. The only thing I can figure now is to try oiling as you describe. Any ideas???
Hi Matt,
Thanks for a very interesting video. I have a new Yanagisawa SC992 curved soprano. The tonality is fine but the action is clunky and seems stiff compared with my Selmers. Do you think that it could be improved by a visit to a good technician?
Chris.
If I use my horn as a bong will the byproducts of combustion gum up the oil? 😂😂 Just kidding, thanks for the videos!!! Very much appreciated by a newbie who wants to do basic maintenance correctly.
I just took apart and cleaned and reassembled my old student alto before seeing this and I have yet to oil it. This is very timely to know how to do it correctly. I also have a “birth year” YAS-21 and will clean it correctly.
Grease? Like bicycle hub bearing grease? I bet a very thin coating of that stuff would be good.
Bong water has the side effect of making your sax terrible, while also making you think it's wonderful. It's the double whammy.
Hi Matt, what kind of bench motor is that?
@@tpark89 I have a Ferree's compact bench motor and also a modified Emco Unimat that I use most of the time. If you email me, I can send you more details and photos.
Try zippo lighter fluid.
do a search for "grobet fluid dispenser" or "menda dispenser" and you'll find it.
hey Matt, Where did you get your container for the lighter fluid/ naphtha?
OPE, nvm I found it. dang, they aren't cheap hahaha
mine has lasted over 10 years and shows no signs of giving up
With old mechanical cameras, the flautist's "COA" (clean-oil-adjust) is called "CLA" (clean-lubricate-adjust) - because "oil" would kill the springs-gears-clockwork extremely fine mechanism in the sense it "glues" parts to each other or slows them down to the point it does not function properly.
That said, my engineer grandfather taught me that you do not need to lubricate, preferably do not lubricate, a mechanism where two different metals are in contact or softer metals that lubricate through their own wear. Old clocks using steel axles with brass gears where the steel axles run on holes in brass plates are proof of this. Wrist watches running much higher bpm use "jewels" to seat these steel axles.
With a steel rod in brass tubes, the latter is the case and I wonder if Selmer actually lubricates when they build these instruments. Because of this.
Anyhow, if I did this CLA myself (without the A - that's for pros), I would definitely follow this approach completely.
Mr. Stohrer's was a great video to watch!
Interesting. So you’re saying don’t lubricant the sax? The rods are tool steel and the tubes/keys are brass. ?
@@berkeleyboathouse7426 - I'm offering the question but don't know how "the industry" looks at it at the side of designers and manufacturers.
@@jpdj2715 Certainly something to think about, research, that would “revolutionize” how a sax is put together. I think though, after over a century of saxophone, and other instruments, development the builders, designers, and repair persons would have figured this out. Maybe not lubing dissimilar metals is only in certain applications. Maybe on the saxophone the action would be too slow or too noisy.
I had to read this several times to figure out that flutes do not, in fact, have GEARS in them. For a minute, my mind was totally blown... _"How can this be?!? How could I have missed the GEARS IN FLUTES for MY ENTIRE LIFE?!?"_
On another note, I may have just invented a viable mechanism for gears in flutes.
Thank
So how much does an oil change cost?
why are there only two right hand palm keys?
I had started working on the horn when I decided to make a video.
What about using Grafit
few if any owners are going to go tru this process even if its correct way to do this
Machine shops use scotch brite pads to remove to last little bit of material from metal parts. Using this goes against what you are talking about here in general. That grit you are removing is some dirt, but it is also metal particulate that has been removed from the shaft due to the grime circulating. When you clean it with scotch brite, you are removing probably just as much material. No free lunch I suppose..
Depends on the "grit" of scotch brite you use how much comes off. I use the finest stuff I can find, which you can turn on a wheel in a bench motor against your skin and not get hurt. The stuff I see machine shops and other folks use is much more coarse, and would quickly remove skin and flesh if you tried the same thing. So while I suppose it could be removing some material, I would guess it is minute, and it is definitely not measurable with my micrometer, which goes to 1/10,000 of an inch.
Right, but any grit is still removing material. I suppose the loose mechanisms on old horns may be more attributed to the part with the hole in it, as it's softer than the steel shaft. Just making an observation, nice videos.
That's a myth about the bridge painting.
Is that sound at 1:12 a cat asking for dinner in the background?
pretty sure that was my (at the time) 7 month old son giving my wife a hard time in another part of the house. shortly after this time period I bought an old Airstream camper and turned it into a repair shop, so I no longer work in the house!
Good show, but remind them about oil for the rollers. they can rust solid. )
You've obviously never driven the clapped out cars I've driven in the past. With most cars you stop for gas and check the oil I've owned cars you stopped for oil and checked the gas 🤣🤣🤣 my current trick had a bad leak for a while, took a quart every 2 days just to keep it on the stick.
There exists an argument that oiling is not good nor is it necessary... any takers???
I'll consider your argument as soon as you drain the oil out of your car's engine, and don't refill it.
Show what you do, not the sax.