Great vid! Been enjoying your stuff as a holy priest main (although I do a cheeky respec for Halfus haha). I'm extremely jealous of the divine aegis shenanigans disc gets to do on prepull! Our guild runs a lot of healers so I'm tempted to go full in on haste + shard of woe + archangel for that burst healing (yes, as holy). Mastery and crit are not looking too hot right now but I want to see how it goes on the harder heroics we haven't progressed on yet first. Something that made me a bit of a crit fanatic was the idea that PoH, CoH and Hymn got x5 (x6 if running CoH glyph) as much benefit from crit when compared to a single target spell but after a few weeks overhealing has been a real problem sadly.
hm i dont really understand the not using 4 piece part but i guess with that lvl of gear and not using haste it makes sense for some bosses. seeing all the ppl with full hc gear kinda makes me wanna quit my bad guild and do some real raiding but i feel like its already too late for that.
Never too late. Theres still firelands and DS. The problem with 4 piece is having to cast penance every 10s. You wont have 100% uptime but it is good on some fights. I swap it on and off depending on how much single target healing I will be doing.
No, @macdaddyswag has a decent guide video for rdruid. I might come out with one for the other healers at some point but my experience and knowledge is higher on priest/pally than the others.
Disc is very strong in 10m imo. I think your healer comp for 10m should be disc + rdruid/hpal + sham flex for third healer. Hpal is overhyped in 10m imo, radiance isnt that strong in 10m until like DS where every fight is fully stacked. The utility is nice but a good rdruid will higher hps than a pally in almost every fight and their profile is good for raid fights where people arent in radiance range of each other which compliments Discs profile. I would gear identically for 10m except id value the t11 4 set a bit higher as youll probably be doing more direct tank healing in 10m as there will be less incidental beacon type healing going into the MT with the lower healer count. Youll also end up doing ab it more atonement if you dont aggressively drop healers after prog, although bis disc can pbly solo heal a lot of t11.
hey DoubleZug - the 3% increased meta effect gem... what effect does it have as disc? I tried testing on heal crits and I didnt notice a difference. why do we run that > mana
Good question, I should have mentioned this in the video. They changed the int crit meta in cata to be crit effect not crit damage which does affect heals as well as your atonement crits. It also only requires red gems to activate so you 'gain' 40 intellect over the percent mana gem because you dont have to socket two yellow gems. You lose a small amount of mp5 but gain a decent chunk of throughput that also scales with our crit rating and our aegis. I personally would always run the crit% meta.
Im not sure about whether crit is better than mastery for holy. I havent played much with the spec. I imagine with Holy Concentration your highest priority is just ILVL and spirit.
Wow head is advising haste is 3rd stat. Do you think dropping well below the 12.5% haste breakpoint for 1 additional tick is worth it to stack crit? And what is your crit amount?
I wouldnt think about breakpoints at all for disc. The only thing that matters is hymn and you should be troll and casting hymn with the last global in your zerk (or casting it inside of lust/PI otherwise) which caps you on hymn ticks anyways without any haste. You should also basically never cast renew so break points on that dont matter at all.
Keep in mind this guide is specifically regarding how to heal parse as Disc, which is not how Disc is actually played optimally. Everything said here should be taken with that context in mind. Parse BiS is Troll/Crit+Mastery/Spamming PoH/never smiting/forcing your raid healers to overheal so your HPS goes up. Actual bis is Goblin/Haste+Crit/Never stop smiting.
They both have a niche in which theyre viable. Disc priest brings a bit more utility with PS/barrier and its absorbs. It also brings incidental healer damage with atonement. Disc does good raid and tank healing but its raid healing is limited by the constraints of POH. Holy has guardian spirit but lacks the raid damage reduction that barrier provides. It does strong raid healing but weaker tank healing. The renew playstyle, however, fits the same niche as rdruid but priest bring more utility. Its healing profile also compliments hpal/disc well and hpal/disc are going to be the core healers in any 25m. Disc is a bit stronger all things considered but both are viable.
another amazing video!! thanks!!! so with this gearing strategy, do u opt out of darkness haste talent totally? context: I'm playing 10m and i'm the only source of Inspiration...
No, I still grab it. In 10m I would do inspiration and darkness and drop points in soul warding for one in strength of soul depending on the fight. You might also beenfit from droping two in darkness for short fiend depending on fight length (idk much about 10m heroic prog i mostly 25m).
great info, disagree with it heavily - if you want to spam PoH and spam bubbles then yeah your healing will be very high - its just sniping tho. In ur example you used Nef hc - and as far as im concerned after a crackle if everyone is alive as a disc uve done ur job, go back to atonement - contribute to dmg while the other healers top ppl off. Thats why il be going haste>crit>mastary.
If you want higher damage youre better off dropping a healer for an actual dps spec and having your disc play properly and pump hps than having a disc sit there twiddling his thumbs pressing smite doing half of a healer of hps and .2 of a dps.
your numbers are way off dude. With what you're advocating, you're losing 9k dps to get an extra 3k hps that would have been covered by your raid healers 99.9% of the time anyway, so you're essentially just losing 9k dps to have other healers overheal so you can top the healing meters. you're just fucking your own team over by playing disc that way
@@Alphastar69 There is zero chance you get within 3k hps of poh spam with full atonement ZERO Id ask you to post logs but you dont have any because its mathematically impossible "Covered by your raid healers" - This is a faulty assumption. You should DROP HEALERS to the point where very healer has to MAXIMIZE HPS in order to heal all the damage. dropping a healer for a dps is 30k extra raid dps which is WAY more impactful than 30 extra smites in a fight E.X we 4 heal alakir because our healers are actually good so we gain 60k rdps on most teams 6 healing the fight. This is massively more valuable than doing 6k more atonement dps and sandbagging hps forcing your raid to go up a healer.
You're putting a lot of emphasis on parsing. Disc priests primarily parse by taking healing away from the other healers, which rarely benefits raids as a whole, but merely the ego of the disc priest. Parsing has been a plague of classic wow and your arguments underline this perfectly.
@@doublezug7193I have watched it now and I understand that you're American, but I'll try to explain it in simple terms. You talk in absolutes, as in "healer dps is useless and if you're looking at that metric, you're wrong". It's a way of reasoning often found in people who are focused more on parsing (which you refer to as an objective metric, which is quite frankly laughable). Take my raid as an example: we clear heroic, doing most bosses with pally+disc (me). Paladins are garbage at doing dps while healing. Yes, I could spam poh on the raid and get a great parse, but what would that ultimately have resulted in? Well, several things, actually. My pally would have had much less to heal, probably leaving the fight with way too much mana left and phases where he'd be doing nothing but waiting for things to happen. Instead, I as a priest can sacrifice the oh-so-great parses and do much higher dps than him, lowering the kill time by a significant amount (>4%). What you don't seem to understand is that reducing the amount of healers in your raid works like haste breakpoints on hots. As long as you can't handle a heroic boss alone (which, on most bosses, you can't), you have to run double heal. In that situation, all unnecessary surplus healing time SHOULD be invested in dpsing and it's quite frankly the only right thing to do in that situation. Don't tell me you're solo healing all hard modes. When I was still actively world-first-raiding, we had one rule: screw the parses as long as we get the world first. Anything goes as long as the raid as a whole performs at its absolute best. Parses are ultimately an unhealthy metric in terms of overall raid performance and personal decision making, as is quite abundantly clear from the videos I've watched on this channel. You have very strong opinions on healing, but being strong doesn't make them right or valid.
I didn't know as a healer I must look at HPS and maintain it to achieve "correct" healing because my dumbass brain just thought being a healer is to make people alive during fights. Great explanation tho
Ive been on the crit mastery over haste train for disc for a minute now. I dont heal 25m tho only 10hc and idk i felt like i didnt really lose any throughput as well as i didnt spend mana as fast after reforging away from haste
omg, 2 people in group 3 is about to take 30k damage, better Prayer of Healing that group a few times so that they have a protective Divine Aegis applied for at least that amount! Surely this is good gameplay, it's the other's that are just trying to parse!
Doing high hps let's you drop healers and do more damage. Absorbs are healing just like every other type of healing. You lack basic understanding of how healing works.
Absorbs let you drop healers and heal through higher burst damage than your total raw hps. If you think preshielding is worthless you dont understand how healing works at all.
To all the people arguing with logs and saying that doing as much hps as you could is your goal as a healer, you choose the wrong role, my friends. Especially if you want to play discipline priest. Its not s-tier cause of numbers. It’s s-tier due to damage reduction/prevention and smart healing with atonement while providing extra dps. I bet you use pi on yourself lol. And why would you reforge into spirit? It’s useless if you know what you are doing.
@@doublezug7193 Im not saying you shouldnt drop the 5th healer. Im just saying you are misundestanding your role as a disc priest. You are not build for heavy aoe healing. All the other classes will beat you on that. And if your details of whatever you are using show you are at the top regarding hps, thats because you prespam PoH. And in some cases that is the smart choice, but mostly the incoming damage wont one shot you and its the other healers' job to top everyone with rain, radiance etc.
@@tomasharcuba999 the only spec that can beat disc on aoe healing is hpal if the entire raid is pixel stacked or rsham if the entire raid is in healing rain and is below the threshold for guaranteed earthliving.
Imagine coming here to the disc that does the most HPS in the world (=HEALING...Quick reminder..thats the role people invite you for)...Shittalk him and talk about DPS..Oh boi..Braindamage done....YOU Smite spammers choose the wrong role “my friends”..If you want to dps and heal a bit while doing so, go shadow...Stop griefing your raids shitters!
@@JoeTrull-t2k wow, you really take this game seriously.. well, my perspective if that of someone who’s been clearing full hc cata content for the past couple of years on private servers with players’ damage and healing being reduced by 20% and bosses getting their hp buffed by a decent amount. That’s all I gotta say lol
@@bidu2331324 Because heal parsing is meaningless and spamming POH so hard that all your healers have at least 40%+ overhealing is inefficient as hell. Your niche as disc is tank healing through atonement. If you want to grief your holy paladins whose kit is actually set up for raid healing for a parse be my guest but this isn’t how disc should be played.
@@bidu2331324If you want to grief your holy paladins, whose kit is actually set up for raid healing so you can get a meaningless parse be my guest. Enjoy your 40%+ overhealing. I’ll be playing the class correctly and using atonement to heal the tanks like discipline is intended to be played.
@@bidu2331324 If you want to grief your holy paladins, whose kit is actually built for raid healing, so you can parse be my guest. I'll be playing the class correctly and using atonement to heal the tanks like discipline was meant to be played.
Stop spreading misinformation on stat priorities and how to play Discipline priest in Cataclysm, it's downright disgusting that you need to bleach your eyes
Haste crit mastery currently is the move, mastery will be higher near DS when we can cap aegis faster. Spirit is okay but imo it's behind haste and crit. Haste and crit should be around 1%, apart for best results.
Great vid! Been enjoying your stuff as a holy priest main (although I do a cheeky respec for Halfus haha). I'm extremely jealous of the divine aegis shenanigans disc gets to do on prepull!
Our guild runs a lot of healers so I'm tempted to go full in on haste + shard of woe + archangel for that burst healing (yes, as holy). Mastery and crit are not looking too hot right now but I want to see how it goes on the harder heroics we haven't progressed on yet first.
Something that made me a bit of a crit fanatic was the idea that PoH, CoH and Hymn got x5 (x6 if running CoH glyph) as much benefit from crit when compared to a single target spell but after a few weeks overhealing has been a real problem sadly.
hm i dont really understand the not using 4 piece part but i guess with that lvl of gear and not using haste it makes sense for some bosses.
seeing all the ppl with full hc gear kinda makes me wanna quit my bad guild and do some real raiding but i feel like its already too late for that.
Never too late. Theres still firelands and DS. The problem with 4 piece is having to cast penance every 10s. You wont have 100% uptime but it is good on some fights. I swap it on and off depending on how much single target healing I will be doing.
ty for not gatekeeping and sharing your tips and knowledge with us ♥ I was able to parse my first 99 this tier by watching your vids and adjusting!
gz
Do you have any guides for a resto Druid? Also what is your rotation for disc priest I’m having trouble healing as one
No, @macdaddyswag has a decent guide video for rdruid. I might come out with one for the other healers at some point but my experience and knowledge is higher on priest/pally than the others.
Does this same advice apply equally to 10 man? I’m about to reroll disc for my guild. What do you think the best 10 man healer is?
Disc is very strong in 10m imo. I think your healer comp for 10m should be disc + rdruid/hpal + sham flex for third healer. Hpal is overhyped in 10m imo, radiance isnt that strong in 10m until like DS where every fight is fully stacked. The utility is nice but a good rdruid will higher hps than a pally in almost every fight and their profile is good for raid fights where people arent in radiance range of each other which compliments Discs profile.
I would gear identically for 10m except id value the t11 4 set a bit higher as youll probably be doing more direct tank healing in 10m as there will be less incidental beacon type healing going into the MT with the lower healer count. Youll also end up doing ab it more atonement if you dont aggressively drop healers after prog, although bis disc can pbly solo heal a lot of t11.
Amazing video yet again, thanks for uploading these awesome videos going more in depth!
hey DoubleZug - the 3% increased meta effect gem... what effect does it have as disc? I tried testing on heal crits and I didnt notice a difference. why do we run that > mana
In 4.3 the meta was changed from crit damage to crit effect and does affect heals.
Good question, I should have mentioned this in the video. They changed the int crit meta in cata to be crit effect not crit damage which does affect heals as well as your atonement crits. It also only requires red gems to activate so you 'gain' 40 intellect over the percent mana gem because you dont have to socket two yellow gems. You lose a small amount of mp5 but gain a decent chunk of throughput that also scales with our crit rating and our aegis. I personally would always run the crit% meta.
@@doublezug7193hey, wondering what name is this gem?
Are you gonna make a similar gearing guide for firelands?
Yeah, once ptr comes out ill post something. I cba to do pserver stuff.
Thanks! About time we had a high healer parser to do one of these vids. Tyty
Does this crit focus also apply for Holy Priests as well after they reach the first haste breakpoint?
Im not sure about whether crit is better than mastery for holy. I havent played much with the spec. I imagine with Holy Concentration your highest priority is just ILVL and spirit.
Wow head is advising haste is 3rd stat.
Do you think dropping well below the 12.5% haste breakpoint for 1 additional tick is worth it to stack crit? And what is your crit amount?
I wouldnt think about breakpoints at all for disc. The only thing that matters is hymn and you should be troll and casting hymn with the last global in your zerk (or casting it inside of lust/PI otherwise) which caps you on hymn ticks anyways without any haste.
You should also basically never cast renew so break points on that dont matter at all.
Keep in mind this guide is specifically regarding how to heal parse as Disc, which is not how Disc is actually played optimally. Everything said here should be taken with that context in mind. Parse BiS is Troll/Crit+Mastery/Spamming PoH/never smiting/forcing your raid healers to overheal so your HPS goes up. Actual bis is Goblin/Haste+Crit/Never stop smiting.
Damn, I'm over here throwing by leveling a goblin disc
@@chrisroberts5300 the difference between troll goblin and belf is pretty small for disc tbh
youre not trolling
What are The 3 points in Shadow ?? Haste or what is, how i can see ur Talent tree? u forget to post it
@doublezug7193 hey
what healing spec is better for preist in cata? Holy or disc?
They both have a niche in which theyre viable. Disc priest brings a bit more utility with PS/barrier and its absorbs. It also brings incidental healer damage with atonement. Disc does good raid and tank healing but its raid healing is limited by the constraints of POH.
Holy has guardian spirit but lacks the raid damage reduction that barrier provides. It does strong raid healing but weaker tank healing. The renew playstyle, however, fits the same niche as rdruid but priest bring more utility. Its healing profile also compliments hpal/disc well and hpal/disc are going to be the core healers in any 25m.
Disc is a bit stronger all things considered but both are viable.
another amazing video!! thanks!!! so with this gearing strategy, do u opt out of darkness haste talent totally? context: I'm playing 10m and i'm the only source of Inspiration...
No, I still grab it. In 10m I would do inspiration and darkness and drop points in soul warding for one in strength of soul depending on the fight. You might also beenfit from droping two in darkness for short fiend depending on fight length (idk much about 10m heroic prog i mostly 25m).
368 item level holy mother of god
25 man makes it rain with loot man. Like 6 items per boss. Insane.
Would you play this way in 10 man? Or more atonement
Depends on the fight and the healer count. Id still gear spirit/crit no matter what. PoH is still insane in 10m.
great info, disagree with it heavily - if you want to spam PoH and spam bubbles then yeah your healing will be very high - its just sniping tho. In ur example you used Nef hc - and as far as im concerned after a crackle if everyone is alive as a disc uve done ur job, go back to atonement - contribute to dmg while the other healers top ppl off. Thats why il be going haste>crit>mastary.
If you want higher damage youre better off dropping a healer for an actual dps spec and having your disc play properly and pump hps than having a disc sit there twiddling his thumbs pressing smite doing half of a healer of hps and .2 of a dps.
Smooth brain take
your numbers are way off dude. With what you're advocating, you're losing 9k dps to get an extra 3k hps that would have been covered by your raid healers 99.9% of the time anyway, so you're essentially just losing 9k dps to have other healers overheal so you can top the healing meters. you're just fucking your own team over by playing disc that way
@@Alphastar69wrong.
@@Alphastar69
There is zero chance you get within 3k hps of poh spam with full atonement
ZERO
Id ask you to post logs but you dont have any because its mathematically impossible
"Covered by your raid healers" - This is a faulty assumption. You should DROP HEALERS to the point where very healer has to MAXIMIZE HPS in order to heal all the damage.
dropping a healer for a dps is 30k extra raid dps which is WAY more impactful than 30 extra smites in a fight
E.X we 4 heal alakir because our healers are actually good so we gain 60k rdps on most teams 6 healing the fight. This is massively more valuable than doing 6k more atonement dps and sandbagging hps forcing your raid to go up a healer.
You're putting a lot of emphasis on parsing.
Disc priests primarily parse by taking healing away from the other healers, which rarely benefits raids as a whole, but merely the ego of the disc priest.
Parsing has been a plague of classic wow and your arguments underline this perfectly.
What’s the argument you’re making? That disc shouldn’t be smiting the boss?
Watch my latest video, it explains why hps matters and in what circumstances parses are useful.
@@doublezug7193I have watched it now and I understand that you're American, but I'll try to explain it in simple terms.
You talk in absolutes, as in "healer dps is useless and if you're looking at that metric, you're wrong".
It's a way of reasoning often found in people who are focused more on parsing (which you refer to as an objective metric, which is quite frankly laughable).
Take my raid as an example: we clear heroic, doing most bosses with pally+disc (me).
Paladins are garbage at doing dps while healing. Yes, I could spam poh on the raid and get a great parse, but what would that ultimately have resulted in?
Well, several things, actually. My pally would have had much less to heal, probably leaving the fight with way too much mana left and phases where he'd be doing nothing but waiting for things to happen.
Instead, I as a priest can sacrifice the oh-so-great parses and do much higher dps than him, lowering the kill time by a significant amount (>4%).
What you don't seem to understand is that reducing the amount of healers in your raid works like haste breakpoints on hots. As long as you can't handle a heroic boss alone (which, on most bosses, you can't), you have to run double heal. In that situation, all unnecessary surplus healing time SHOULD be invested in dpsing and it's quite frankly the only right thing to do in that situation. Don't tell me you're solo healing all hard modes.
When I was still actively world-first-raiding, we had one rule: screw the parses as long as we get the world first. Anything goes as long as the raid as a whole performs at its absolute best.
Parses are ultimately an unhealthy metric in terms of overall raid performance and personal decision making, as is quite abundantly clear from the videos I've watched on this channel. You have very strong opinions on healing, but being strong doesn't make them right or valid.
Maybe don't overheal the content if heals have nothing to do because of a disc priest
I didn't know as a healer I must look at HPS and maintain it to achieve "correct" healing because my dumbass brain just thought being a healer is to make people alive during fights. Great explanation tho
gz admitting your faults is the first step to self improvement
THANK YOU for putting the haste apologists in their place.
You are absolutely correct.
based
Ive been on the crit mastery over haste train for disc for a minute now. I dont heal 25m tho only 10hc and idk i felt like i didnt really lose any throughput as well as i didnt spend mana as fast after reforging away from haste
Does this work with Hpala aswell?
Hpal I would aim for radiance hot tick break points and then after that crit.
omg, 2 people in group 3 is about to take 30k damage, better Prayer of Healing that group a few times so that they have a protective Divine Aegis applied for at least that amount!
Surely this is good gameplay, it's the other's that are just trying to parse!
Doing high hps let's you drop healers and do more damage. Absorbs are healing just like every other type of healing. You lack basic understanding of how healing works.
Absorbs let you drop healers and heal through higher burst damage than your total raw hps. If you think preshielding is worthless you dont understand how healing works at all.
Looks up video for best absorb healer, bashes healer for absorbing, make it make sense
Easily the best disc guide without a doubt, everyone stacking haste quz wowhead tells them to, doing 40 logs wondering why they aint healing shit xd.
To all the people arguing with logs and saying that doing as much hps as you could is your goal as a healer, you choose the wrong role, my friends. Especially if you want to play discipline priest. Its not s-tier cause of numbers. It’s s-tier due to damage reduction/prevention and smart healing with atonement while providing extra dps. I bet you use pi on yourself lol. And why would you reforge into spirit? It’s useless if you know what you are doing.
How much damage do you gain from going from 5 healers to 4 healers?
@@doublezug7193 Im not saying you shouldnt drop the 5th healer. Im just saying you are misundestanding your role as a disc priest. You are not build for heavy aoe healing. All the other classes will beat you on that. And if your details of whatever you are using show you are at the top regarding hps, thats because you prespam PoH. And in some cases that is the smart choice, but mostly the incoming damage wont one shot you and its the other healers' job to top everyone with rain, radiance etc.
@@tomasharcuba999 the only spec that can beat disc on aoe healing is hpal if the entire raid is pixel stacked or rsham if the entire raid is in healing rain and is below the threshold for guaranteed earthliving.
Imagine coming here to the disc that does the most HPS in the world (=HEALING...Quick reminder..thats the role people invite you for)...Shittalk him and talk about DPS..Oh boi..Braindamage done....YOU Smite spammers choose the wrong role “my friends”..If you want to dps and heal a bit while doing so, go shadow...Stop griefing your raids shitters!
@@JoeTrull-t2k wow, you really take this game seriously.. well, my perspective if that of someone who’s been clearing full hc cata content for the past couple of years on private servers with players’ damage and healing being reduced by 20% and bosses getting their hp buffed by a decent amount. That’s all I gotta say lol
i would love to see your logs
Bidstan - whitemane
Great guide for heal parsing, not so much for the average person playing the class.
Why? Doing high hps is your job as a healer. Parses are only irrelevant in the context of groups with too high healer count.
@@bidu2331324 Because heal parsing is meaningless and spamming POH so hard that all your healers have at least 40%+ overhealing is inefficient as hell. Your niche as disc is tank healing through atonement. If you want to grief your holy paladins whose kit is actually set up for raid healing for a parse be my guest but this isn’t how disc should be played.
@@bidu2331324If you want to grief your holy paladins, whose kit is actually set up for raid healing so you can get a meaningless parse be my guest. Enjoy your 40%+ overhealing. I’ll be playing the class correctly and using atonement to heal the tanks like discipline is intended to be played.
@@bidu2331324 If you want to grief your holy paladins, whose kit is actually built for raid healing, so you can parse be my guest. I'll be playing the class correctly and using atonement to heal the tanks like discipline was meant to be played.
@@bidu2331324 "Doing high hps is your job as healer." Nope! Try again!
Way too much mana pool 😂😂😂😂
Stop spreading misinformation on stat priorities and how to play Discipline priest in Cataclysm, it's downright disgusting that you need to bleach your eyes
lol
Haste crit mastery currently is the move, mastery will be higher near DS when we can cap aegis faster. Spirit is okay but imo it's behind haste and crit. Haste and crit should be around 1%, apart for best results.
link logs
@@samuel0403 bubblefont-faerlina
@@samuel0403 Can't link for some reason