Excellent information Phil! I NEVER comment on any videos, but wanted you to know how much we appreciate the information you provide and the great scientific research you do and share here! Thank you so much!
Soooo helpful to my freeze drying journey! My dad and I are freeze dryers (not commercial, call it a passion/hobby) and we talk about all your great video. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOURSELF WITH US!!
Thank you for this information! I've only done cooked meats because I don't want to have to worry about food spoilage. I'm new to freeze drying and I've watched a lot of videos. Yours is the only one who has answered my questions regarding contamination from raw foods. I've only done 3 batches of various types of food so far.
Thanks for the video. It has given food for thought (not FD’d food though). I spoke with Harvest Right CS earlier and asked for any recommendations regarding the practice of FD raw chicken and they sent me an email with what I was already doing: _”Regarding your question about what we recommend when freeze-drying raw chicken. We say just slice the mean [sic] thinly - no bigger than 1/2 inch. Then trim the skin bone and fat as much as possible.”_ _”Also, please know that we do not recommend you use Windex on the door when cleaning it.”_
Another amazing video Phil and something I had been thinking about. I just used isopropyl alcohol 70% to clean mine. I decided to pour some down the drain also trying to disinfect that section as well out of an abundance of caution in case those bacteria could come back up during the vacuum stage when the valve is closed. Also I did the grove inside the seal and other parts of the seal. I am hoping it will not damage the rubber. I researched the higher concentrations of isopropyl and all indications point heavily to using 70% rather than the higher levels or lower. Keep up the amazing work you are doing!
This is excellent information. I was not aware I could use alcohol to clean my freeze dryer. Also bringing piece of mind when freeze drying raw meats or eggs. I have not done eggs yet, but I have freeze dried liver, heart, etc., for dog treats.
With my dryer, I run an anti-siphon system, and a bucket with lid that has an added barb that the hose is attached to. It will prevent any siphoning and will act somewhat as an air gap. I also wipe down the chamber after every defrost, and leave the door open. I had one cycle where mold began growing on the rack during the drying process after doing raspberries. It was mainly in the section of rack that had the berries, so they were the source. Gave the rack a good scrub with a foam brush and hot Dawn solution followed by a hot rinse. Did the chamber too, and haven't seen another problem. The braided nylon of the wiring harness can be another source, as it's almost impossible to clean. Many times I'll add a paper towel over the tray if I know things like to spatter in the dryer.
I found a really good brown (unbleached) parchment on Amazon and I cut several and wash/reuse them. Once my heating side of the trays had debris and I could feel it on them. It was difficult to get it all off with the alcohol but after that, I always cover my tray tops with the parchment. It really helps and is very much re-usable and washable. After this video I have added a step of alcohol spray to both sides after washing then hang them to drip dry with a towel underneath - which doesn't take very long.
Thank you for such great information. I have been taking out the tray unit Every time and drying the inside of the chamber and yes the unit is a little wobbly
Another great video, thanks Prof. Phil. I did a batch of green prawns that nearly cost me my marriage! Damn micro particulates! I used ISO to clean out the FD then had to leave containers of bicarb soda and white vinegar in the chamber for a week to get rid of the smell. Keep up the awesome content
What a good video! I only wish I'd know this a lot sooner! I don't do any raw chicken but I do a lot of eggs. They are fresh from here but now I worry about all my FD foods. I typically only clean my machine once a week on Fridays with Alcohol. Now I am rethinking everything. I typically self-defrost with a fan because it is quicker. I keep alcohol in a spray bottle so now I'm thinking after Defrosting I will spray the whole machine inside down with the alcohol. I notice 70% is good enough but I have been using 90%. I hope that is not too strong. I plan to use 70 when I re-fill spray bottle. Thank you SO much for doing these tests and sharing! AWESOME!
Whenever Phil touches food and then touches another surface, I cringe. Makes sense why his impulse sealer is gunky. He’s like that kid from Charlie Brown where messes travel everywhere he goes. Aside from that, I love these videos. Very informative. I’ve shared this with some friends. Thanks!
Thank you for such a helpful video. I hesitantly ran 3 1/2 medium trays of raw eggs and 1/2 tray soup in a load. I chose a food that must be heated up to eat (not to eat straight out of the freeze dryer) and will label my bag as such. Do you think my 1/2 tray of soup is safe if it is heated to steaming or maybe boiling?
I just found this channel and I am very impressed so far. My quick google search says that salmonella is killed by heating at one hour at 131 degrees. Is there a video that shows that the heated tray temperature of 150 degrees doesn’t kill the bacteria sufficiently? Thank you
Just like pink chicken meat is close to the bone, it's hard to say how hot the chicken meat will be when the temperature is coming from the second tray down, from the center. The temperature probe is measuring the temperature of the heating pad, not the meat. But your thought is correct.
Hi Phil, I’m a really big fan of your freeze dry videos. Just spoke with tech rep from HR and asked about sanitizing of the machine. He said HR recommends soap and water and when asked about food safety after running raw eggs and chicken, he said HR does not have a policy. Planning on a follow-up discussion with them to ask more specific details. Would it be possible to discuss this issue with you in greater detail? Working on a basic freeze drying video for food preserver trainers. Shelley
1. My suggestions are based on basic food handling taught by most County Heath Departments. Soap and water can leave a "soap film". During sublimation that film could vaporize and become airborne landing on the food. Although the "soap" would be highly diluted, I feel it's an extra layer of quality control. Restaurants and other service kitchens are required to use a sanitizer after soap and water. 2. Most soaps are not PH neutral. The chamber of the FD is stainless steel. The chromium oxide coating on the surface could become damaged, over the long run, by non-neutral cleaners. 3. Isoproal alcohol is PH neutral, is approved by the FDA for food service surface cleaning, and doesn't require any rinsing. 4. Only 1 in 20,000 eggs could have salmonella. So is it really necessary to clean after FD eggs? Again it goes back to QC. 5. FD raw chicken meat has a much higher level of cross contamination. Any live bacteria will become dormant until rehydration.
I learn so much from you, and become more active in discovering and learning food safety and the freeze drying world. Tks. Curious how a handheld UV-c light would perform in sanitizing? I am concerned about the mesh around the tray's power cord. I would have preferred a simple sealed power cord.
Hi Phil, excellent video! Question; have you considered contamination within the vacuum and drain lines? When opening the bleed valve to relieve chamber vacuum, I can imagine bacteria particulates trapped within the drain line getting sucked back into the chamber and contaminating everything. During the cleaning process I pour some Isopropyl alcohol down the drain line, working the shut off valve a bit at the same time. I also clean the bucket after every batch…….But now I’m concerned about the vacuum line. I think I’ll remove it and give it a good clean as well!Thanks again for the level of detail and effort you put into making these videos.
The drain tube cleaning is a good idea. As far as the vacuum hose, that's a good question. The flow of air, during normal operation, is going away from the chamber. Next time I have my hose off I should swab it.
Apparently you are supposed to clean the interior drain line frequently. I already had bacteria in there after just 3 months (not running raw meats either)
@@T4nkcommander I have never cleaned mine! How do you even clean it? I do use alcohol and since I plan to spray the interrior more often I suppose that might help the drain too.
@@robynlay3917 Iclose the drain valve and fill it with vinegar from inside the FD, then let it sit for awhile. Follow up with a hot water rinse. This wasn't enough for me so I ended up getting a pipe brush to scrub off the obstinate residue.
Do you sterilize your food trays right before use or can they be in the cupboard until you use them. Do you have to wear gloves. I know canning has to be sterile right before use but I don't see anyone mentioning it for freeze drying. Great video!!
You are so helpful and generous with your information. I wanted to ask - could you put a UV light in the chamber, obviously with everything switched off to help kill the bacteria and disinfect the chamber?
Sorry I am readying through all the comments now and saw others had mentioned also - thank you again for your amazing video's I have learned so much :)
Thanks Phil. So I do clean my trays in the dishwaser, but I have not done the chamber a lot. I have a medium freeze dryer and a large. All my eggs are done in the medium one. I am just about to do 72 eggs. I will definitely clean my chamber and rack before. Now I worry about all the foods I have done between my eggs, I have no clue of it. Because I altenate processing btw the two. What do I do about the strawberries and bananas that I have done and ice cream sandwiches. No one has gotten sick in the last 5 years.. but I am concerned.. what do you think? I will continue doing my eggs in the med FD only as I always have and do the maintenance per your video.. This has been an awesome confirmation that has been on my mind but not acted on or fully realized. I wash my chamber with hot water, but I will change that. Thanks
I wouldn't worry. Only 1 in 20,000 eggs are found to be contaminated. (Raw chicken is worse). The chances are low. The "odds are forever in your favor"... and then there's prayer.
I would be curious if even cooked meats, or fruits and vegetables leave contamination behind? I clean my machine before every load to make sure I don't have bacteria jumping on to my food. I'm always nervous that if I clean after a load, but don't get something in again right away (I do leave my door open) that there could be bacteria in my machine that I don't want in my food.
Not only does fat not freeze dry. It can make a huge mess inside your freeze drier. I took some Jimmy Dean precooked sausage links and what a mess. I figured there would be some grease but grease was everywhere. On the trays, on the tray heaters and all around the freezing chamber. I had to remove the tray rack and wash it with a dish cloth with dawn liquid soap to cut the grease. Then I noticed that the grease was starting to collect in the drain line, so I used some really hot soapy water down the drain tube to clean it out. Anything like that in the future will get pressure canned first before freeze drying so I can remove all the fat.
I have done bacon successfully by slow cooking at 140 degrees for three hours. This is when fat begins to render. This may work with your sausage. I have also done Little Smokeys, Bratwurst, and peperoni. Add 8-10 hours extra dry time and vacuum pack with an OA.
Thanks, Phill, this is great information. I need to quit being lazy now. Question. You mentioned the vacuum chamber. Where did you get that one? I also wonder (not so much now) about freeze-drying raw and cooked meat in the same batch. Now it seems not to be a good idea. Thoughts?
@@Philat4800feet I already watched that video and saw your vacuum chamber but you didn't say where you got it or what's included. That is what I was wondering about. Thanks for the reply.
Awesome! Thanks Phil! One question...if completing many loads of dairy products in a row (several batches of milk, sour cream and yogurt, one after the other, do I have to clean the chamber everything? I did 2 loads of blend cream, then 2 loads of homogenized milk, and now need to do 2 loads of dour cream and 1 load of yogurt (all on sale, and ready to go into FD). I don't want to damage the wiring harness, but I also don't want cross contamination. What would you recommend that we do? Also, I would imagine that the top of the interior of the shelves where the heat mats are located also have to be decontaminated. What can we use that is safe the clean them off? I am concerned the the 70% Isopropyl Alcohol will damage them, so I wanted to confirm with you. Thanks.
In three years I haven't had any problems. I would use the alcohol sparingly. Since it's pH neutral, I think you'll be fine. You could use another pH neutral sanitizer and rinse (wipe down) after its use.
You can freeze dry foods Ready-to-Eat, those already cooked, or you can freeze dry food components, which are raw and cook the food after rehydrating. Ready to eat foods are the easiest. Depends on how, and what you want to cook. Freeze dried raw eggs have great potential.
I would like to better understand something that you mention in your video. You suggest cutting the isopropyl 70% strength with 50% water. So if I have a 16oz bottle x 0.5 water = 8oz water 16oz bottle x 0.5 (70% isopropyl) = 8oz of diluted isopropyl to 40%-50% strength?, is that right? So wouldn’t people need to do 16oz x 0.7 = 70% strength isopropyl and 16oz x 0.3 = water?
The 70% dilution came from the CDC during covid. This was the amount of water that could be added and still be used as an disinfectant and increased the flash point so it wouldn't be flammable. If I'm following you correctly just use 1 part alcohol and 1 part water.
The insulation on the shelving unit seems to be some kind of corrugated plastic. I'd imagine that the bacteria could set up home inside that as well. (?) ...and on the harness, any nook and cranny. I wonder if a product could be developed to "run" in the FD in order to kill everything everywhere.
So that means that freeze drying raw meat for dogs isn’t any better than feeding it raw ? The bacteria just stays in the meat and reconstitutes when we add water again?
Correct, the bacteria just goes into dormancy, in addition, bacteria can "hang around" for the next several batches. I still freeze dry raw meat, including chicken, just clean your FD when done.
I wash the trays, the shelving unit and the drum with hot soapy water and pour some of it down the drain hole after each batch. Is hot soapy water as effective as isopropyl alcohol?
Sorry, but no. Your water would need to be 150 degrees for five minutes to kill bacteria. If not rinsed the soap would became a vapor and mingle with your food. Your detergent is most likely on the alkali pH scale.
Wouldn't consider frying raw meats. Not worth it. To cook the meat, then freeze them first, then freeze drying, that's the best, safest way for us to store meat. Taste is fine if you have some good recipes. Thank you, though, for testing these foods for people who want this option.
THIS MIGHT BE AN INTERESTING TEST: Alcohol below flash point say 75% water. Bring to boiling point. Place in freeze dryer DO NOTHING OR DEFROST or run heat on. Or... to evaporates 1 cup in dryer close door TEST FOLLOWING DAY... or 1 cup in dryer... add fan or small heater from outside. Thinking evaporation will coat walls I try to keep my machine running but there are times when it is OFF for weeks at a time. I second all comments about your presentations.
@@j.79 Good to know! I use spray mist of water with a small amount of vinegar to clean mine and now I see some internal crazing in the center of the door. Did not think it might have been such a mild solution but now I wonder.
The one thing you learn in Dental assistant class is, Alcohol is only a sterilizer if the item being cleaned is soaked in it for 24 hours. My suggestion is always going to be steam... from a hand held steaming machine... ie: " the shark " or a like minded brand...... Setting the freeze dryer aside,,,,,, the cross contamination started when you decided to handle the chicken @2:57 and then proceed to touch everything in sight while on your way to the freeze dryer. Just an observation but you would not be working in my kitchen....Because what you just did would not allow you to get a simple health card,, at least in this state..anyway.... BTW,,, I am not condemning Freeze drying at all....just in some ways it is carried out...
Excellent information Phil! I NEVER comment on any videos, but wanted you to know how much we appreciate the information you provide and the great scientific research you do and share here! Thank you so much!
I appreciate that
@@Philat4800feet What about diluted Everclear?
@@PreppingAngel I think it would work fine but what about the cost?
Soooo helpful to my freeze drying journey! My dad and I are freeze dryers (not commercial, call it a passion/hobby) and we talk about all your great video. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOURSELF WITH US!!
Thanks
Thank you for this information! I've only done cooked meats because I don't want to have to worry about food spoilage. I'm new to freeze drying and I've watched a lot of videos. Yours is the only one who has answered my questions regarding contamination from raw foods. I've only done 3 batches of various types of food so far.
As you often do for us - Thank you for providing us with valuable information!
This is the number one reason why I cook my food before FD'ing... That, and if I ever lose the ability to cook in the future, I'll be set. 😊
I always cook meat, too, thinking like you that later it only needs to be rehydrated (if that) to be eaten. 👍
That's the plus of having food Ready-to-Eat.
Thanks for the video. It has given food for thought (not FD’d food though).
I spoke with Harvest Right CS earlier and asked for any recommendations regarding the practice of FD raw chicken and they sent me an email with what I was already doing:
_”Regarding your question about what we recommend when freeze-drying raw chicken. We say just slice the mean [sic] thinly - no bigger than 1/2 inch. Then trim the skin bone and fat as much as possible.”_
_”Also, please know that we do not recommend you use Windex on the door when cleaning it.”_
Good to know
Another amazing video Phil and something I had been thinking about. I just used isopropyl alcohol 70% to clean mine. I decided to pour some down the drain also trying to disinfect that section as well out of an abundance of caution in case those bacteria could come back up during the vacuum stage when the valve is closed. Also I did the grove inside the seal and other parts of the seal. I am hoping it will not damage the rubber.
I researched the higher concentrations of isopropyl and all indications point heavily to using 70% rather than the higher levels or lower.
Keep up the amazing work you are doing!
Good thoughts
I have not tried silica gel packs. I'll look into it.
And again Phil goes above and beyond. Thanks for doing this study!
Thanks
This is excellent information. I was not aware I could use alcohol to clean my freeze dryer. Also bringing piece of mind when freeze drying raw meats or eggs. I have not done eggs yet, but I have freeze dried liver, heart, etc., for dog treats.
Lucky Dog
I FD 72 eggs every 3 weeks. I wash my try after I rince them. You have alerted me to wiping my inside chamber ..
With my dryer, I run an anti-siphon system, and a bucket with lid that has an added barb that the hose is attached to. It will prevent any siphoning and will act somewhat as an air gap. I also wipe down the chamber after every defrost, and leave the door open. I had one cycle where mold began growing on the rack during the drying process after doing raspberries. It was mainly in the section of rack that had the berries, so they were the source. Gave the rack a good scrub with a foam brush and hot Dawn solution followed by a hot rinse. Did the chamber too, and haven't seen another problem. The braided nylon of the wiring harness can be another source, as it's almost impossible to clean. Many times I'll add a paper towel over the tray if I know things like to spatter in the dryer.
I found a really good brown (unbleached) parchment on Amazon and I cut several and wash/reuse them. Once my heating side of the trays had debris and I could feel it on them. It was difficult to get it all off with the alcohol but after that, I always cover my tray tops with the parchment. It really helps and is very much re-usable and washable. After this video I have added a step of alcohol spray to both sides after washing then hang them to drip dry with a towel underneath - which doesn't take very long.
Thank you for such great information. I have been taking out the tray unit Every time and drying the inside of the chamber and yes the unit is a little wobbly
Wonderful information, as always. Thank you!
Another great video, thanks Prof. Phil. I did a batch of green prawns that nearly cost me my marriage! Damn micro particulates! I used ISO to clean out the FD then had to leave containers of bicarb soda and white vinegar in the chamber for a week to get rid of the smell. Keep up the awesome content
But think how nice they will taste years from now.
What a good video! I only wish I'd know this a lot sooner! I don't do any raw chicken but I do a lot of eggs. They are fresh from here but now I worry about all my FD foods. I typically only clean my machine once a week on Fridays with Alcohol. Now I am rethinking everything. I typically self-defrost with a fan because it is quicker. I keep alcohol in a spray bottle so now I'm thinking after Defrosting I will spray the whole machine inside down with the alcohol. I notice 70% is good enough but I have been using 90%. I hope that is not too strong. I plan to use 70 when I re-fill spray bottle. Thank you SO much for doing these tests and sharing! AWESOME!
Weekly cleaning is good.
Great information thank you! Am sharing with my friend!
Great info!! Thank you for the testing you've done for this video!
Thank you!
Great learning video! Excellent
Thank you 🤗
Whenever Phil touches food and then touches another surface, I cringe. Makes sense why his impulse sealer is gunky. He’s like that kid from Charlie Brown where messes travel everywhere he goes. Aside from that, I love these videos. Very informative. I’ve shared this with some friends. Thanks!
I'm working on it:)
@@Philat4800feet lol, you’re a good man!
Very good info. Thank you
Phil, you are a treasure!
Ahh
Great info, thanks for all the work this took to put together that we can benefit from!
Glad it was helpful
Thank you
Thank you for such a helpful video. I hesitantly ran 3 1/2 medium trays of raw eggs and 1/2 tray soup in a load. I chose a food that must be heated up to eat (not to eat straight out of the freeze dryer) and will label my bag as such. Do you think my 1/2 tray of soup is safe if it is heated to steaming or maybe boiling?
I would say if you're worried about any bacteria wipe the trays down with vinegar
I just found this channel and I am very impressed so far. My quick google search says that salmonella is killed by heating at one hour at 131 degrees. Is there a video that shows that the heated tray temperature of 150 degrees doesn’t kill the bacteria sufficiently? Thank you
Just like pink chicken meat is close to the bone, it's hard to say how hot the chicken meat will be when the temperature is coming from the second tray down, from the center. The temperature probe is measuring the temperature of the heating pad, not the meat. But your thought is correct.
Hi Phil, I’m a really big fan of your freeze dry videos. Just spoke with tech rep from HR and asked about sanitizing of the machine. He said HR recommends soap and water and when asked about food safety after running raw eggs and chicken, he said HR does not have a policy. Planning on a follow-up discussion with them to ask more specific details. Would it be possible to discuss this issue with you in greater detail? Working on a basic freeze drying video for food preserver trainers. Shelley
1. My suggestions are based on basic food handling taught by most County Heath Departments. Soap and water can leave a "soap film". During sublimation that film could vaporize and become airborne landing on the food. Although the "soap" would be highly diluted, I feel it's an extra layer of quality control. Restaurants and other service kitchens are required to use a sanitizer after soap and water.
2. Most soaps are not PH neutral. The chamber of the FD is stainless steel. The chromium oxide coating on the surface could become damaged, over the long run, by non-neutral cleaners.
3. Isoproal alcohol is PH neutral, is approved by the FDA for food service surface cleaning, and doesn't require any rinsing.
4. Only 1 in 20,000 eggs could have salmonella. So is it really necessary to clean after FD eggs? Again it goes back to QC.
5. FD raw chicken meat has a much higher level of cross contamination. Any live bacteria will become dormant until rehydration.
I learn so much from you, and become more active in discovering and learning food safety and the freeze drying world. Tks. Curious how a handheld UV-c light would perform in sanitizing? I am concerned about the mesh around the tray's power cord. I would have preferred a simple sealed power cord.
It could work. There are many nook and cranny's that no single method is going to be perfect. We should just try to do all we can within reason.
Hi Phil, excellent video! Question; have you considered contamination within the vacuum and drain lines? When opening the bleed valve to relieve chamber vacuum, I can imagine bacteria particulates trapped within the drain line getting sucked back into the chamber and contaminating everything. During the cleaning process I pour some Isopropyl alcohol down the drain line, working the shut off valve a bit at the same time. I also clean the bucket after every batch…….But now I’m concerned about the vacuum line. I think I’ll remove it and give it a good clean as well!Thanks again for the level of detail and effort you put into making these videos.
The drain tube cleaning is a good idea. As far as the vacuum hose, that's a good question. The flow of air, during normal operation, is going away from the chamber. Next time I have my hose off I should swab it.
Apparently you are supposed to clean the interior drain line frequently. I already had bacteria in there after just 3 months (not running raw meats either)
@@T4nkcommander I have never cleaned mine! How do you even clean it? I do use alcohol and since I plan to spray the interrior more often I suppose that might help the drain too.
@@robynlay3917 Iclose the drain valve and fill it with vinegar from inside the FD, then let it sit for awhile. Follow up with a hot water rinse. This wasn't enough for me so I ended up getting a pipe brush to scrub off the obstinate residue.
Do you sterilize your food trays right before use or can they be in the cupboard until you use them. Do you have to wear gloves. I know canning has to be sterile right before use but I don't see anyone mentioning it for freeze drying. Great video!!
You are so helpful and generous with your information. I wanted to ask - could you put a UV light in the chamber, obviously with everything switched off to help kill the bacteria and disinfect the chamber?
Sorry I am readying through all the comments now and saw others had mentioned also - thank you again for your amazing video's I have learned so much :)
Make sure it's the correct UV light and I believe it needs to be in direct contact with the light.
Thanks Phil. So I do clean my trays in the dishwaser, but I have not done the chamber a lot. I have a medium freeze dryer and a large. All my eggs are done in the medium one. I am just about to do 72 eggs. I will definitely clean my chamber and rack before.
Now I worry about all the foods I have done between my eggs, I have no clue of it. Because I altenate processing btw the two. What do I do about the strawberries and bananas that I have done and ice cream sandwiches. No one has gotten sick in the last 5 years.. but I am concerned.. what do you think? I will continue doing my eggs in the med FD only as I always have and do the maintenance per your video.. This has been an awesome confirmation that has been on my mind but not acted on or fully realized. I wash my chamber with hot water, but I will change that. Thanks
I wouldn't worry. Only 1 in 20,000 eggs are found to be contaminated. (Raw chicken is worse). The chances are low. The "odds are forever in your favor"... and then there's prayer.
I would be curious if even cooked meats, or fruits and vegetables leave contamination behind? I clean my machine before every load to make sure I don't have bacteria jumping on to my food. I'm always nervous that if I clean after a load, but don't get something in again right away (I do leave my door open) that there could be bacteria in my machine that I don't want in my food.
That's understandable.
Not only does fat not freeze dry. It can make a huge mess inside your freeze drier. I took some Jimmy Dean precooked sausage links and what a mess. I figured there would be some grease but grease was everywhere. On the trays, on the tray heaters and all around the freezing chamber. I had to remove the tray rack and wash it with a dish cloth with dawn liquid soap to cut the grease. Then I noticed that the grease was starting to collect in the drain line, so I used some really hot soapy water down the drain tube to clean it out. Anything like that in the future will get pressure canned first before freeze drying so I can remove all the fat.
I have done bacon successfully by slow cooking at 140 degrees for three hours. This is when fat begins to render. This may work with your sausage. I have also done Little Smokeys, Bratwurst, and peperoni. Add 8-10 hours extra dry time and vacuum pack with an OA.
Thanks, Phill, this is great information. I need to quit being lazy now. Question. You mentioned the vacuum chamber. Where did you get that one?
I also wonder (not so much now) about freeze-drying raw and cooked meat in the same batch. Now it seems not to be a good idea. Thoughts?
Check out this link:
th-cam.com/video/CDj02lxBFiQ/w-d-xo.html
I wouldn't mix raw and cooked meats together.
@@Philat4800feet I already watched that video and saw your vacuum chamber but you didn't say where you got it or what's included. That is what I was wondering about. Thanks for the reply.
Great info! What about the drain tube? No contamination from that? Can I clean that w/isopropyl alcohol?
Yup, just pour it down the drain.
I have 90% isopropyl for gardening disinfectant. Can I use it straight or would it cause problems?
I should work fine. I try to add the issue with being flammable as a caution.
Awesome! Thanks Phil! One question...if completing many loads of dairy products in a row (several batches of milk, sour cream and yogurt, one after the other, do I have to clean the chamber everything? I did 2 loads of blend cream, then 2 loads of homogenized milk, and now need to do 2 loads of dour cream and 1 load of yogurt (all on sale, and ready to go into FD). I don't want to damage the wiring harness, but I also don't want cross contamination. What would you recommend that we do? Also, I would imagine that the top of the interior of the shelves where the heat mats are located also have to be decontaminated. What can we use that is safe the clean them off? I am concerned the the 70% Isopropyl Alcohol will damage them, so I wanted to confirm with you. Thanks.
In three years I haven't had any problems. I would use the alcohol sparingly. Since it's pH neutral, I think you'll be fine. You could use another pH neutral sanitizer and rinse (wipe down) after its use.
A papertowel sprayed with alcohol and manually applied to the harness wires works well I think.
Phil awesome vids - thank you! Question.. Is there any reason or advantage to FD'ing RAW meat vs Cooking it first the FD'ing? TIA
You can freeze dry foods Ready-to-Eat, those already cooked, or you can freeze dry food components, which are raw and cook the food after rehydrating. Ready to eat foods are the easiest. Depends on how, and what you want to cook. Freeze dried raw eggs have great potential.
I like to do raw foods/meat for my dog- especially the (nasty smelling) organ meats… very expensive to buy FD
...And then there are deep fried chicken nuggets.
I would like to better understand something that you mention in your video. You suggest cutting the isopropyl 70% strength with 50% water. So if I have a 16oz bottle x 0.5 water = 8oz water 16oz bottle x 0.5 (70% isopropyl) = 8oz of diluted isopropyl to 40%-50% strength?, is that right? So wouldn’t people need to do 16oz x 0.7 = 70% strength isopropyl and 16oz x 0.3 = water?
The 70% dilution came from the CDC during covid. This was the amount of water that could be added and still be used as an disinfectant and increased the flash point so it wouldn't be flammable.
If I'm following you correctly just use 1 part alcohol and 1 part water.
The insulation on the shelving unit seems to be some kind of corrugated plastic. I'd imagine that the bacteria could set up home inside that as well. (?) ...and on the harness, any nook and cranny. I wonder if a product could be developed to "run" in the FD in order to kill everything everywhere.
Someone had the idea of placing liquid alcohol in the chamber and letting boil to a vapor. unknown what it would do to the pump.
UV sanitizer wands have fallen in price lately, may be worth a try to save time.
Could be a good idea
So that means that freeze drying raw meat for dogs isn’t any better than feeding it raw ? The bacteria just stays in the meat and reconstitutes when we add water again?
Correct, the bacteria just goes into dormancy, in addition, bacteria can "hang around" for the next several batches. I still freeze dry raw meat, including chicken, just clean your FD when done.
Also, DO NOT use alcohol on the plexiglass door! It will start to craze and become an implosion hazard!
How do you clean the drain hose and vacuum hose
Pour isopropyl alcohol through the lines. The vacuum line would need to be disconnected.
I wash the trays, the shelving unit and the drum with hot soapy water and pour some of it down the drain hole after each batch. Is hot soapy water as effective as isopropyl alcohol?
Sorry, but no. Your water would need to be 150 degrees for five minutes to kill bacteria. If not rinsed the soap would became a vapor and mingle with your food. Your detergent is most likely on the alkali pH scale.
@@Philat4800feet thank you! I'll start using the alcohol to clean and sanitize it.
Wouldn't consider frying raw meats. Not worth it. To cook the meat, then freeze them first, then freeze drying, that's the best, safest way for us to store meat. Taste is fine if you have some good recipes. Thank you, though, for testing these foods for people who want this option.
Good point!
THIS MIGHT BE AN INTERESTING TEST: Alcohol below flash point say 75% water. Bring to boiling point. Place in freeze dryer DO NOTHING OR DEFROST or run heat on. Or... to evaporates 1 cup in dryer close door TEST FOLLOWING DAY... or 1 cup in dryer... add fan or small heater from outside. Thinking evaporation will coat walls
I try to keep my machine running but there are times when it is OFF for weeks at a time. I second all comments about your presentations.
Alcohol has been reported to cause damage to the acrylic door, called crazing.
@@j.79 Good to know! I use spray mist of water with a small amount of vinegar to clean mine and now I see some internal crazing in the center of the door. Did not think it might have been such a mild solution but now I wonder.
Still, this was an interesting idea.
Could you pastreurize the freeze dried contents of a mylar bag by leaving it in strong sun? If so how long? Before storage, after, or both?
That might work with the contents of the bag, but the chamber would still be contaminated
What about the drain?
Kris in Orlando
When cleaning with alcohol. Pour some down the drain.
I have been cleaning my barrel and shelves with steramine. Should I use alcohol instead?
The pH of steramine is really high at 20 (alkali side). A little too much for me.
@@Philat4800feet so I shouldn't use it?
@@vickiebonano2092 I would not.
The one thing you learn in Dental assistant class is, Alcohol is only a sterilizer if the item being cleaned is soaked in it for 24 hours. My suggestion is always going to be steam... from a hand held steaming machine... ie: " the shark " or a like minded brand......
Setting the freeze dryer aside,,,,,, the cross contamination started when you decided to handle the chicken @2:57 and then proceed to touch everything in sight while on your way to the freeze dryer. Just an observation but you would not be working in my kitchen....Because what you just did would not allow you to get a simple health card,, at least in this state..anyway....
BTW,,, I am not condemning Freeze drying at all....just in some ways it is carried out...
i have been freeze drying a lot of raw beef and chicken it all turns out great
Do you vacuum or regular pack (bag or jar)?