Few of you have mentioned that BUD boxes do not tap the screw holes and the screws are self-threading. This made me curious so I went back out and compared the screws from the latest box vs. the old BUD box and found the following: The new screw has a proper lead-in taper as you would expect from a self-threading screw. However, they are missing the thread cutting slot/cutting edges to properly form threads. The old screws are straight without a taper and are definitely not intended for self-threading. So it appears BUD changed the screws at sometime, but may have sourced incorrect screws. I am tempted to order another box just to see what screws are included. I truly enjoy having these discussions as everyone learns something from it. Thank you! 🙏
Good to see another video on the Cincinnati restore. I may have an opportunity to get one of these grinders if things work out, so these videos will be useful for me if that all goes to plan. For your phase converter you could make a robot leg with a 2 second kick and strap a steel capped work boot onto it. Then you can work on other stuff instead of kicking it all day long :)
Nice work, Yuchol. I loved the 360 shots. I don't think BUD Industries taps the holes in the boxes. At least I've never received one that was tapped. I think the screws they supply are tri-lobe self-tappers, which is fine, but they're also Philips heads, which are suuuuuper easy to strip when you have to form the threads.
Great job Yuchol. Always love to open something up and discover what some jackass thought was a good idea. My bet is on the fan making the noise in the phase converter.
It did get the best of you, it's just that Zombie Yuchol is still walking around. One thing I think you need to do is hit the column bellows with some Armor-All or other rubber preservative to halt the checking. Beyond that it's looking great!
I was worried you gave up on the old Cincinnati after all the setbacks you kept running into. They are actually real great machines. Last one we got at the company I was serving my apprenticeship looked spectacular all shiny and clean. That particular machine had a metal tag stating it was made in France! It was for are toolroom and was used to grinding very small poking pins for our cold heading production machines. When the owners moved our division to north San Diego area, they moved our machinery right next to their grinding department. We couldn’t believe our eyes as they had 12 Cincinnati tool and cutter grinders in their room! Any how welcome back chinggu!!!
Fascinating. A couple of years ago I bought a group of old motors at auction. Turns out half where big old 3 phase, ranging from 3/4 to 2 hp, like yours. All of those were 60 pounds each. Brands included PowrKraft, Marathon, Montgomery Ward. Some had frozen bearings, some bearings felt like they were made of rocks, some OK. When I looked at the brittle wires, I re-sold them all because I didn't want to take the time required to fix. That makes me really appreciate what you have done! And what you did with those wires is an excellent tutorial. Great job!
I have some experience replacing bearings in electric motors while working as a maintenance technician, so I wanted to say something about what the spring washer is for. The motors I have worked on are assembled with a spring washer between the rear bearing and bell housing. The rear bearing should be a snug sliding fit in the rear bell housing and the front bearing should be a light press fit in the front bell housing. As the motor heats up, the shaft expands and since it tends to get hotter than the shell of the motor, it will expand more than the shell does. When this happens, the spring washer allows the bearing in the rear bell housing to move to accommodate the expansion of the shaft without significantly increasing the axial preload on the bearings. If you assembled your motor without a spring washer in the rear bell housing (as it appears you have), I would be concerned that as your motor heats up, there is no room for the rear bearing to move and excess axial preload will build up on the bearings. This could eventually damage the bearings or at least cause vibration -- which you particularly don't want in a machine like this one. I have to say that I don't know why there would have been a spring washer in both bell housings. I've never seen a motor assembled that way, but I suppose it's possible. Maybe the manufacturer felt the need to allow room for a lot of shaft expansion. As for the shim washer, my best guess is that was there to ensure that the spring washer pressed only against the outer bearing race and did not make contact with the bearing balls.
Awesome video production/discussion/demonstration/repair….enjoyed your craftsmanship and levity…KOKO, funny we have the full size golf game and we play at family holidays…my daughter and as a team are undefeated
I would do all the electrical insulation on the motor terminals the exact same way you did. They do make this rubber tape that's about 1mm thick, for these sort of connections, that's typically applied first, this gets the insulation thickness up to the required level quick. Then the standard thickness electrical tape is applied over this softer rubber insulation tape, to protect it. The problem with that, is when you go to remove it, that rubber tape glues into a solid blob. So regular electric tape is good enough for these voltage levels, and is maintainable when needed. I've seen this same sort of maintenance on used motors I got surplus, where the bearings were changed, but the shields not removed, and then some maintenance guy flooded the interior with grease. I found this when I made one of these 5HP 3600RPM motors into a RPC. And I hated having to start it first, before I could run my 3P vertical mill. Worse was the constant noise of the motor running. So about 30 years ago, the price of VFDs came down to affordable levels, and still are. I've replaced single phase motors on all my machine shop tools and put a dedicated VFD on them. The benefit is a variable speed motor. Works slick on the drill press, where I leave the belts in a fixed mid reduction setting, and I program the VFD for 120Hz max to drive the 4pole motor to 3600RPM. Same for the lathe, where I want ultra slow spindle when I'm die threading or tapping. They also provide soft starts so I don't see the lights dim. I like your content and editing, I know this is lots of work to produce. Pretty fancy panning of the camera.
Your RPC is about as noisy as mine. I wish I could dig a hole and bury it underneath my shop! I was starting to wonder what had happened to the grinder project. Glad you're back on it. Regards, Preso
Phase converter bearings and fan next on agenda! The non drive end bearing with the spring washer should be a close slip fit to allow the spring washer to preload the bearings and accommodate thermal expansion.
Crap news about the phase converter! Sorry you've got to deal with that hassel. Always seems to be something adding itself onto the end of our projects list. You've got enough going on with this project, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the phase converter problem turns out to be a simple one.
I have the same RPC, except in the 20hp size. My idler made the same sound so I sent a video to the American RPC guys. They told me it's normal for the first several hours of operation--and they recommended I could tap the end bell(s) with a dead blow hammer lightly to see if it would improve. I did that, it did improve it...and now I don't hear the same noise anymore. I have about 20-25 hours on the unit now and it works great.
Amazing restoration progress Yuchol! I recently purchased a rusty old MACSON tool & cutter grinder here in Australia, its a rebadged Cincinnati No2. Watching your restoration vid series intently as ill be going thru that shortly as well
Very helpful vids! I didn't have the best start to my restoration, broke an engine crane unloading grinder from trailer. 6hr ordeal to remove slide, grinding head and saddle on the trailer - so the grinder was light enough to lift with my other engine crane. Man its heavy!
Why most induction motors in North America don't have terminal blocks in the wire box but just loose wires most often covered in electrical tape? I looked for answer online multiple times but it seems like no one asked the question before. Even very old motors here in europe have terminal blocks that are clearly labeled and are very easy to work with.
My guess is that given the shield the bearing should have been unsealed so that the grease is contained in the fixture. So restoring it to original is inferior to the sks replacement nice choose . For historical purposes Timken would be the choose unsealed . Can not say that they would be better thou .
Steve Summers had a similar noise with his old phase converter. Ended up being the fan had some spot welds that let go. th-cam.com/video/SiF2OnNTQDo/w-d-xo.html
Few of you have mentioned that BUD boxes do not tap the screw holes and the screws are self-threading. This made me curious so I went back out and compared the screws from the latest box vs. the old BUD box and found the following: The new screw has a proper lead-in taper as you would expect from a self-threading screw. However, they are missing the thread cutting slot/cutting edges to properly form threads. The old screws are straight without a taper and are definitely not intended for self-threading. So it appears BUD changed the screws at sometime, but may have sourced incorrect screws. I am tempted to order another box just to see what screws are included. I truly enjoy having these discussions as everyone learns something from it. Thank you! 🙏
Great job on the motor,now let's go after the phase converter! Glad to see you posting more videos,missed you.
Good to see you back doing your grinder project Yuchol.
Thanks Mark!
Good to see another video on the Cincinnati restore. I may have an opportunity to get one of these grinders if things work out, so these videos will be useful for me if that all goes to plan.
For your phase converter you could make a robot leg with a 2 second kick and strap a steel capped work boot onto it. Then you can work on other stuff instead of kicking it all day long :)
You're giving me something to think about 😏
I love stuff other people messed with. 🙄 I am totally up for the phase converter forensic analysis!
Oh you know it’s coming 😁
Nice job on the grinder motor rebuild. And it’s just darn nice to see you.
Really appreciate it 😀
Yuchol is back! Great to see you!
Thanks!
best intro/outro jam on youtube... glad to see you're making videos again. Looking forward to seeing the cinci grind.
I like it too, but I am biased. Thanks my friend!
Nice work, Yuchol. I loved the 360 shots. I don't think BUD Industries taps the holes in the boxes. At least I've never received one that was tapped. I think the screws they supply are tri-lobe self-tappers, which is fine, but they're also Philips heads, which are suuuuuper easy to strip when you have to form the threads.
Thanks James. I will have to go look at the screws on my other BUD boxes now.
Great job Yuchol. Always love to open something up and discover what some jackass thought was a good idea. My bet is on the fan making the noise in the phase converter.
He's tanned, he's rested and he's ready to roll!
I don't know about the tan, it rains every day here in the pacific northwest, but I am ready to roll!
It did get the best of you, it's just that Zombie Yuchol is still walking around.
One thing I think you need to do is hit the column bellows with some Armor-All or other rubber preservative to halt the checking. Beyond that it's looking great!
I was worried you gave up on the old Cincinnati after all the setbacks you kept running into. They are actually real great machines. Last one we got at the company I was serving my apprenticeship looked spectacular all shiny and clean. That particular machine had a metal tag stating it was made in France! It was for are toolroom and was used to grinding very small poking pins for our cold heading production machines. When the owners moved our division to north San Diego area, they moved our machinery right next to their grinding department. We couldn’t believe our eyes as they had 12 Cincinnati tool and cutter grinders in their room! Any how welcome back chinggu!!!
Great vid. and thanks for posting again.
At 7.00, I just call them springs, 😁.
Cool, thanks
welcome back Yuchol.
Thanks my friend, good to be back. 👍🏼
Fascinating. A couple of years ago I bought a group of old motors at auction. Turns out half where big old 3 phase, ranging from 3/4 to 2 hp, like yours. All of those were 60 pounds each. Brands included PowrKraft, Marathon, Montgomery Ward. Some had frozen bearings, some bearings felt like they were made of rocks, some OK. When I looked at the brittle wires, I re-sold them all because I didn't want to take the time required to fix. That makes me really appreciate what you have done! And what you did with those wires is an excellent tutorial. Great job!
Thanks Bob!
I have some experience replacing bearings in electric motors while working as a maintenance technician, so I wanted to say something about what the spring washer is for. The motors I have worked on are assembled with a spring washer between the rear bearing and bell housing. The rear bearing should be a snug sliding fit in the rear bell housing and the front bearing should be a light press fit in the front bell housing. As the motor heats up, the shaft expands and since it tends to get hotter than the shell of the motor, it will expand more than the shell does. When this happens, the spring washer allows the bearing in the rear bell housing to move to accommodate the expansion of the shaft without significantly increasing the axial preload on the bearings. If you assembled your motor without a spring washer in the rear bell housing (as it appears you have), I would be concerned that as your motor heats up, there is no room for the rear bearing to move and excess axial preload will build up on the bearings. This could eventually damage the bearings or at least cause vibration -- which you particularly don't want in a machine like this one. I have to say that I don't know why there would have been a spring washer in both bell housings. I've never seen a motor assembled that way, but I suppose it's possible. Maybe the manufacturer felt the need to allow room for a lot of shaft expansion. As for the shim washer, my best guess is that was there to ensure that the spring washer pressed only against the outer bearing race and did not make contact with the bearing balls.
I also have a strong opinion on how to do things. "Your own way is the best way" 🙂
That's right brother!
I'm glad I found this channel and get all notifications. Good stuff here 👍👍
Glad to hear it!
Awesome video production/discussion/demonstration/repair….enjoyed your craftsmanship and levity…KOKO, funny we have the full size golf game and we play at family holidays…my daughter and as a team are undefeated
Hi Chuck, that's awesome!
Very nice Job
Thanks man!
Good work. I guess chips - or is it sparks when it's a grinder - soon!
I would do all the electrical insulation on the motor terminals the exact same way you did. They do make this rubber tape that's about 1mm thick, for these sort of connections, that's typically applied first, this gets the insulation thickness up to the required level quick. Then the standard thickness electrical tape is applied over this softer rubber insulation tape, to protect it. The problem with that, is when you go to remove it, that rubber tape glues into a solid blob. So regular electric tape is good enough for these voltage levels, and is maintainable when needed.
I've seen this same sort of maintenance on used motors I got surplus, where the bearings were changed, but the shields not removed, and then some maintenance guy flooded the interior with grease. I found this when I made one of these 5HP 3600RPM motors into a RPC. And I hated having to start it first, before I could run my 3P vertical mill. Worse was the constant noise of the motor running. So about 30 years ago, the price of VFDs came down to affordable levels, and still are. I've replaced single phase motors on all my machine shop tools and put a dedicated VFD on them. The benefit is a variable speed motor. Works slick on the drill press, where I leave the belts in a fixed mid reduction setting, and I program the VFD for 120Hz max to drive the 4pole motor to 3600RPM. Same for the lathe, where I want ultra slow spindle when I'm die threading or tapping. They also provide soft starts so I don't see the lights dim.
I like your content and editing, I know this is lots of work to produce. Pretty fancy panning of the camera.
Thanks for sharing the info!
Don't let it beat you!
Never!
Your RPC is about as noisy as mine. I wish I could dig a hole and bury it underneath my shop! I was starting to wonder what had happened to the grinder project. Glad you're back on it.
Regards, Preso
Oh Mark, I feel your pain. The fan is the #1 suspect, will be taking it apart to see. I just needed a break from the grinder for awhile. 😆
Phase converter bearings and fan next on agenda!
The non drive end bearing with the spring washer should be a close slip fit to allow the spring washer to preload the bearings and accommodate thermal expansion.
It’s coming for sure!
The cooling fan for your phase converter is probably the noise your hearing.
The fan is the #1 suspect at the moment.
thanks . its good to see a little more of you
Appreciate that.
Lucky you're a clever Guy.
Crap news about the phase converter! Sorry you've got to deal with that hassel. Always seems to be something adding itself onto the end of our projects list. You've got enough going on with this project, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the phase converter problem turns out to be a simple one.
besides the engineering etc .. love your choice of grooves
Thanks, appreciate it.
Well done. Just for information, Bud boxes are supplied with self tapping screws, but using a tap is better than using the screws to form threads.
Interesting, I will look at my other boxes and see what screws they have. Thanks!
Excellent work keep up the good work like your channel awesome
Thank you.
Oh super cool! This is a great project :)
Thanks Phil!
I have the same RPC, except in the 20hp size. My idler made the same sound so I sent a video to the American RPC guys. They told me it's normal for the first several hours of operation--and they recommended I could tap the end bell(s) with a dead blow hammer lightly to see if it would improve. I did that, it did improve it...and now I don't hear the same noise anymore. I have about 20-25 hours on the unit now and it works great.
Thanks for sharing, but I don't like being their quality control. I plan to take it apart and make a permanent fix.
@@woodscreekworkshop9939 I guess that's my point: It sort of fixed itself...
Amazing restoration progress Yuchol! I recently purchased a rusty old MACSON tool & cutter grinder here in Australia, its a rebadged Cincinnati No2. Watching your restoration vid series intently as ill be going thru that shortly as well
I hope my videos are helpful for you!
Very helpful vids! I didn't have the best start to my restoration, broke an engine crane unloading grinder from trailer. 6hr ordeal to remove slide, grinding head and saddle on the trailer - so the grinder was light enough to lift with my other engine crane. Man its heavy!
Why most induction motors in North America don't have terminal blocks in the wire box but just loose wires most often covered in electrical tape?
I looked for answer online multiple times but it seems like no one asked the question before.
Even very old motors here in europe have terminal blocks that are clearly labeled and are very easy to work with.
Good question, I'd personally prefer a terminal block.
Yuchol, I like you, am VERY curious, as to what is going on with the phase convertor. I think it missed the balancing test stand???
We will find out soon enough, I will be taking it apart for sure. Can't live like this. 😆
That motor is identical to the one I removed from my machine (the one I sent you parts from) it's definitely the original.
Nice to hear you confirm this for me!
That noise sounds like the fan is loose or misaligned and scraping on the case housing. Just an opinion.
The fan is the #1 suspect at this point.
My guess is that given the shield the bearing should have been unsealed so that the grease is contained in the fixture. So restoring it to original is inferior to the sks replacement nice choose . For historical purposes Timken would be the choose unsealed . Can not say that they would be better thou .
Agreed!
Dude! I have an American Rotary Phase converter that is about a year old and making a whining noise. It stops when I tilt it.
Noisy converter owners unite!
Good progress, also why not ask American Rotary fix their motor ? Surely it's under warranty.
I suppose I reached the point where I just want to move on with less drama.
@@woodscreekworkshop9939 heh, says a lot about them and you're too nice.
Do I spy a roll of green platers tape on your bench?
Always have a roll near by just in case.
@@woodscreekworkshop9939 do you work in the electroplating industry?
Steve Summers had a similar noise with his old phase converter. Ended up being the fan had some spot welds that let go. th-cam.com/video/SiF2OnNTQDo/w-d-xo.html
Thank you
I love your refurb videos. Did you hear about Tom over at Hilltop Machine Works? Check out his latest video. Yikes!
Thanks Robert. I spoke with Tom today and his spirits are up. Definitely a wakeup call for all of us. Cheers!
"signs of rubbage" 😃
only in ohio you have electric motors who've sinned.
Failure. There is no such thing if you keep going. There just may be a few more steps than you were originally planning on.
Forge ahead!
it will beat you Yuchol, i didn't put a 100 on the Cincinnati for nothing. 😁
As long as I get a cut bro!
@@woodscreekworkshop9939 that's insider trading no? aha