How SSD Technology Keeps Getting WORSE! - Intel 660p Review
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RightToArms yeah i mean pc building simulator required a lot more programming to be done
exw swag pc part picker is also very complex. It can compare compatibility between many parts, and even size based compatibility in some cases. I’m not arguing against you though, of building simulator makes sense or cost money, it’s a game.
@@ΔημοσθένηςΒαρνάς "to the stupidity and beyond"
this actually real true human
Nichsa 89 ?
Because it's a video game...
I actually really like the format of this video, and feel something should be said about it. The combination of being visually met with a person as well as explanatory images was done very well and very smoothly, I didn't feel that either aspect was over or underdone. I believe that the topic range of your videos can be more diverse and extensive with the inclusion of more of these kind of videos; not that I believe they should all necessarily be done this way. Great video!
Agreed. The editor of this video should be kept an eye on for promotion to a more senior position.
@surfitlive haha, this made my day
I agree in a way he explains the pros and cons while still putting a bit of salt on Intel and explain exactly how they did it and who this product is for. For me perfect for my itx build just for games. Perfect while it still has the same os/game loading speed as a crucial mx500
@surfitlive u smart guy lol
I think we found Linus' burner.
was considering this for my laptop's empty second nvme slot
I thought "oh no, back to searching"
but after watching the whole video, i think it'll be just fine for my steam folder
For a secondary drive, it should be fine.
@@cmdrnachoman5864 I'm considering one to replace both of my GL703VD's drives. One is a 256 GB M.2 (SATA3), the other is a 1 TB HDD.
@@cmdrnachoman5864 what about a boot drive with like 400gb of program files/games
@@bamcameback It would work, but you could probably get one just as cheap, or cheaper which performs better. Do you need a M.2 one specifically, or would a 2.5" SATA do the job, if so, they are probably better value.
Mac owners can only dream about having the option of installing a second drive. Or, in fact, being able to swap out their storage at all. Or, for that matter, having a decent Steam experience.Being inferior in just about every way, this is why they are so much cheaper.
Oh, wait.
Pff who needs SSDs when you have floppy drives
I can still fit tons of save games on my zip disks
RaptorG bruh who needs floppy drives when you've got punch cards
I have a blue one, it contains a 2 second midi compression of all star by smash mouth KappaHD
Floppy drives? Punch cards? Levers? Pneumatic valves FTW!! :D
Who needs floppies when you have The Selectron Tube?
"Progress bar going backwards"
A typical file: I don't feel so good
Time to upgrade from floppys!
Welcome to the back to future (1990's)
What's a floppy grandpa?
Nonsense! Tyvek still has a future!
John Galt kek, yeah, sorry, but I’ll stick to my 512 byte floppy disk and stick with my pentium one and voodoo GPU.
Come on! No one will ever need more than 1.44 MB, 3.5" HD.
Linus: This SSD sucks
The Laptop Industry: Its already inside
Except it doesn't suck. Nor does he claim it does. I can have all my games, including CoD, on an SSD just because i could buy a 2TB nvme qlc ssd on a sale for a price of 512GB samsung one (that hardly ever goes on a sale, coz it's a shiny samsung one).
It's not suck as he say... QLC are good for if you are going get archives files (only read), and still it's 200TB write show me a guy who can in normal descop use write 200TB of storage in 5y.
AND FOR LAST he use they workload as a exemple... THEY ARE IT COMPANY!!!
@@moonik665 I am downloading a movie at the 11MB/s limit with 1Gbps fiber because this disk is 100% usage. My computer is unsusable meanwhile. Ryzen 4800HS 16Gb Ram bloated with this piece of garbage. Yes it is "ok" for casual usage and gaming, but this thing hard-bottleneck this badass
I tried to transfer 1.3 TB of data to it last night and it was writing at 400mb/s due to my external SSD’s speed but suddenly dropped to 130mb/s after around 250gb of data.
@@treykeys2978 Like I say 250GB who normaly write 250GB of data.
I mean day to day.
Damn...I expected a weird intro...I am disappointed..
The 1 TB version of that drive was on sale for $90.99 on NewEgg today and I almost bought it. Then I remembered this review, and decided no.
I just picked one up lol got a newegg email saw it jumped on it
@@0mnikron702 I already have a 500GB WD Blue SATA3 SSD in my desktop and it's nowhere near full. Didn't see the need to go bigger or faster.
You should buy it, as he mentioned, despite all this compromise, there is no difference for day to day usage. When do you really need 3GB/s reading speed? Other hardwares in you system can't handle it. That what they are aiming for, cut the cost while most consumers can't tell the difference. Storage speed really doesn't mattar, for me any drive that doesn't break is a good drive becasue there are so many other bottlenecks in the system like CPU, GPU, memory, they make real difference. It's not like you are going to move 100GB of files everyday. The way I see it, it's a good product with unbeatable value.
Zack Schmiesing Im building a itx system i5 9600k with xpg 500 m2mnv for windows and this drive will be for games and storage I’m trying not to use cables keeping a clean look in the system on asrock itx z390 itx
Oscar Shen I went for it just came in yesterday waiting for my heat sink to come today so I can get this build going
Nice... So everything seems to be getting exorbitantly more expensive in the computer space.. From top line Intel CPU's going from $350 or so to $580.. To top line Nvidia GPU's going from $650 or so to $1,200.. But, I thought, "HEY, at least SSD's have been dropping..".. And now I hear this.... Damn... PC is a bit of a bitch lately.
Its only that expensive because people buy them
Do you need top of the line? My PC is 7 years old. I put a new 1070 in it a few months ago and it still runs everything I've thrown at it just fine.
@@Here_is_Waldo I was looking to VR stuff and UHD/4K stuff. Which demands top o da line.
@@bliglum I'm running an intel i7 2600k with my 1070 and can run the Vive without issue. SkyrimVR and Fallout4 VR both go fine.A new PC would no doubt run 4K with higher FPS, but personally I get enough frames that any more would hardly be noticeable. Get what makes you happy, but I'm still not sure the best is required.
@@Here_is_Waldo I was on a similar setup, 4770K and 980Ti.. Ran most without issue, but in racing sims like Assetto Corsa and Project cars (VR) I had to turn everything down to medum/low respectively, and still got judders... So, I just got a 1080Ti (waited for 20 series, but overpriced!) Apparently though, the 1080Ti is being slightly bottlenecked a bit by my i7. So, currently looking into the 6 core 8700K.
9:20 While 100GB per day is a lot that probably doesn't include write amplification. Considering how much caching is going on it may be significant. Also there are more data using programs, Chrome for example writhes at 0.5MB/s constantly when running.
do you wouldnt recommend the 660p?
Picked up a 660p 1TB drive for 115USD(NEW) to serve as my game library disk. Works like a charm and you can't beat the price.
Kinryuu everything is quick and without frame drops?, also what games do you play?
Picked it up for $88, you really can't beat the price at all!
@@zbigniewsmyk Everything is running buttery smooth. Playing mostly RoE, PUBG, Paladins along with some BDO, BF1/5 and GTA 5 at times these days.
@@verbosi7y275 Yeah, the price will ofc also differ from country to country. Here in Norway, everything is expensive.
F.eks a Samsung 970 plus 1TB is 340 USD here.
I got crucial 1tb ssd instead of this, i think it will be good too
4:30
>science time
>uses "exponentially" for literally linear growth
Rewatch the video. You interpreted Linus' statement incorrectly.
🤔
@@numbersix9477 his statement is just WRONG. The time to determine the voltage state of each cell grows linearly with the number of bits, for sure not exponentially. This is very very basic binary search and ADC operation principle. As others have already commented, you cut the search space in half by every read information you get.
@@numbersix9477 and yes, before you comment: Yes, Linus was indicating very clearly in the video that the time to determine the voltage level of a given cell (not the number of states) grows exponentially with the number of bits. Which is just very very wrong.
@@RandomUser2401
Rewatch the video.
My Crucial P1 uses the same flash, but more dram and such, and in the 1TB capacity for everyday use it's fast as hell, never runs out of cache. For sort of regular desktop use, and gaming.
I really appreciate the in depth, technical part about how SSD's function.
I don't know if they made a new revision, but over time my drive (over the course of about three months) went from having similar behaviours/performance to the one seen in the video, to slowing down to near USB 2.0 speeds at 28 MB/s after sustained writes (see installing Elder Scrolls Online on it) and spiking up to 1456 ms response time when it hits that performance wall. Also flushing the cache does almost nothing for me in my case as it brings back the high performance for only about 10-15gb of data which may seem like a lot, but keep in mind that my example of Elder Scrolls Online is a 110gb game install. And I know this drive is intended for the average consumer but it doesn't seem right for any SSD or HDD to slow down to near USB 2.0 speeds with a response time that can be measured in seconds especially a drive which uses the NVME protocol. (this is with about 300gb free on the 1tb model)
I bought a Samsung 840 PRO 128GB SSD in 2013, had 24 hours of power-on hours, so basically new. It's currently at 22,605 POH (equiv to 2.5 years). Total writes: 21TB. Quite less than 200.
This has been my main OS drive since 2013, and I'm finally retiring it for an NVMe drive.
Personally I am using the 1tb 970 EVO plus for for my main drive in systems, and the 2tb 660p as a media/file backup drive in my systems. Both work incredibly well in their intended use case. With about 500gb of space for the main and 1tb for the media drive as realistic usable space.
Yeah I believe it's the right way to use tlc and qlc drives
It's insane value for anyone who does casual computing. Anyone who does sequential transfers more than 16gb then this is not for them.
I will say that HDDs have the same lifetime issues as they get denser. I've still got a 500GB HDD from 2005 in my system, and I just put in an order to replace my Barracuda 2TB from, like, 4 years ago. That drive replaced a 1TB drive that was also only about 5 years old at the time when it was failing bad enough to make the system blue screen on the daily.
SLC flash is the stuff to buy if you can afford it. The one and ONLY problem with SLC is that it is often very expensive in comparison to the stuff you typically see in most stores. I will never allow the other makers to fool me with MLC and TLC or 3D nand (seems like a stacked MLC to me). I would still use them but I would just remember there is better stuff I might otherwise have bought if I had more cash sitting around. The one and only reason you don't see SLC flash devices in places such as Bestbuy is because they are trying to sell items most people can afford or are more likely to purchase because of a lower price. I have a 16 GB pseudo SLC memory card and while it is not true SLC memory it still has good speed and is also supposed to last longer than other memory cards (aside from the SLC memory). The one I got is a Swissbit from a site online which sells various electronic parts. I think it was Digikey, they sometimes have a good price. Those sorts of sites also list what type the memory is even for memory cards. That is very different from buying a Sandisk or Lexar card and not being able to find any clue as to what the memory is, it seems like they don't really want you to know what you are getting. Those two are not terrible brands but of course I seldomly buy them just because they are often somewhat over priced for what they are.
Load the test system with another 16GB of ram or more, load up PrimoCache, set level 1 cache to 10240MB or the full amount of extra ram you installed, make sure the ram is 100% stable, set block size to 4K, set for read and writes, set to defer writes for 10secs, prefetch the last cache and load at windows start up. And remember to set the cache for the drive you want to test it on, im my case the OS drive.
Test using time, time is the ultimate test for an SSD, see how quickly heavy real world tests take that use lots of reads, writes and CPU intensive tasks that requite lots of data throughput, PCmark etc is pretty good, but forget the throughput in MB/s etc, only look how long it takes to run the tests and the full test duration.
Check without the cache and with the cache.
I once did a blog post on the old OCZ website showing this and why its totally the way to test SSD and systems, BS MB/s shyte is exactly what i say...shyte, measure the time it takes for a pc to complete a huge task, using only time. Its a great way of testing SSD's and if you run the test with primocache running it will show you how to really speed up your system, AND reduce needless writes to your drives, so they last way longer ;-) If you are brave defer writes for 1hr, you need a massive cache for this though, i actually found 10secs gave 99% the performance of 60mins BUT the drive will sustain more writes and erases at 10secs, for drive longevity defer for 60 mins but flush the cache at shutdown. Remember drives do a lot more than just read and write, you have to take this all into account as you measure the time it takes to complete a large task....time measures everything the drive does during that task.
Primocache messes with windows update...so either update manually or switch it on and off as needed.
Linus, they said that SSD cache on QLC is at about 72 or 78 GB on sustained writes. They also said Samsung QVO 860 2TB and 4TB has higher cache but there's no one come out and put that on the real test.
Windows has Prefetch, that invalidates many tests. You think you read from your disks, but you read from RAM where your usually used app loads from (Windows learns your habits and pre-loads your app before you click on it).
Well some time ago i have ordered an Nvme SSD (not this one) but apparently the seller didnt have that specific one i wanted but instead he suggested me the 660p. After taking a look on the reads and writes i thought it would be a great deal so i got the 660p (256GB) for about 80 bucks. I had no idea about the QLC thing and SLC cache and thought it was just like every othem Nvme. After 2 years of use as a regular windows drive i can tell you that the performance was pretty descent. It was only getting slow when it was filled with junk and $H!T (We are talking for less than 10GB free space) but after a clean install everything was fine again. During the transfer of large files it would sometimes reduce the transfer speed from 400MB/s down to 100 or less with some spiking up to 400MB/s again but only after at least 75% of its capacity was filled.
I actually installed one of these recently in my gaming laptop. I'll come back with any bad experiences later.
OSes write more to storage than just what is downloaded and "saved." An example is swap memory, where the OS temporarily writes data to storage when it runs out of RAM.
Thanks for this. Newegg currently has on sale for $87. Was considering it until I wanted to know more. :)
Pretty good, pop in your machine, partition with GParted, mount, change mounted folder to have the Linux group with your username (if your username is Bob, the Bob group) to have read/write/execute recursively, unmount, log out, log in, and you are set (but you have to mount it once whenever you want to use it)
Pretty happy with it, I throw GNS3 VMs onto it to study with so I don't have to wait on storage medium, and laptop is waiting on me :)
Did you end up buying it?
@@kirbypodolan9285 Nah, passed on it.
@@chuckg3517 If you want a 1TB M.2 SSD that's reliable for what it is, it's not gonna get significantly cheaper unless you want to buy a manufacturer refurbished used up part that's been sold by a merchant as new 😂😂
This happens with all electronics now, so the longer you wait from the date of a product's release, the greater the likelihood this will occur. You can't really prove it when it happens, either, which sucks.
and if you think THAT drive is bad, there are worse NVME drives being bundled with HP desktops today. (120MB/s write speeds or worse)
2TB 660p will be $250 on newegg black friday. Probably going to grab one and make it my steam drive
Well if the amounts of rewrites are slow & limited, well then you are better off to store inportant stuff on it for once and for all and don’t bother with it , or use it as a backup drive.
It may be slower to read & write stuff on it but it’s cheaper then other ssd drives and does not get damaged once dropped unlike hdd drives!!!
The amount of users not understanding the expression "aggressive pricing" is _falalabbergasting_
I think they mean we are being abused aggressively by Intel prices....? So it's agressive pricing! I get it now!
9:15 I love this editor. lol
The worst part of my Samsung SSD drive failing was getting sent a used one as a replacement.
TLC stands for triple level cell, not triple layer. It makes it sound like you're talking about the number of layers in a 3D NAND pillar which is 64, 96 or 128.
Just imagine when PCIe 5.0 comes out, we need even more cache to keep up 😖
pci e 5.0 is out now
sort of
@@theUglyManowar the standard is finalized, no devices on the market yet and probably won't be until late 2020, or even 2021
Sweet, bought one of these on November 10th... and then I watch this today. Sounds like it should be ok for what I'm using it for though.
As I said yesterday in another video. A 2tb addition to my 1tb 660 was the only choice I 2ouldnt regret to some measure or another. The problem is, linus, is this is a consumer budget nvme... The first actually, the one that set the framework for qlc and thus competition to eventually lower prices. For gamers, if you put on your "peasant" thinking cap for a moment, was a brilliant move and customer conscsious for intel to make. It's not an nvme for creators man. Someday your well known aptitude for well rounded coverage and generally fairness will bite you in the ass 2heb people see you having some mind for the best and the most expensive. It's a hard thing to come back from 2brn you probably accidentally drop and break more in a good month than I make in a year, and the consumer tech worship we can't 3b3b mention making a move toward sustainability, let alone to think about the reprecussions for our children. But hey, maybe it's just the kids in Malaysia that will have tumors from all the ewaste burning, so what the hell. I'm. Sorry man I love you, I just have to vent. This vid is pretty old but things are only getting worse from the tech influencers, to the mafias that are making millions taking our plastic and electronics and scrapping two percent and illegally offing the rest. And the crap you gave intel when they were probably at one of their greatest heights of achievement, I hope you realize in hindsight was on many many many levels unfair to bordering on cyberpunk fqnboysism for militech. I love and too, buy I won't trash the king losing war and then kick him fifty ones while down when his battlefield prowess was not what waned.
If you keep your swap file on the SSD (which you should, for speed and responsiveness) you'll be surprised how much is written every day "behind the scenes". Same with browser cache, etc.
If you have 32GB of RAM or more (doable since Haswell) you can just turn the pagefile off and when you run into that one leaky game (eg FFXV, Fallout 4, etc) you'll get told about it by the OS.
@@LuisXGP I've found advice regarding SSD's are often ill-informed, because it doesn't take into account the underlying tech. Consumer SSD's in server's for example, often wear out after just 2 years. This is because the drives are TLC and not over-provisioned as much.
There's rarely any use for a RAM drive in a system, and most recommendations about RAM drives are not practical, since the same applications can be told to use more RAM in the first place (eg Photoshop.)
@@Kisai_Yuki Well, that depends on several things, but mostly how the app is designed.
You can already see a great improvement of web browsing by using a ramdrive or a ram caching program (like primocache) when using an HDD. Although the performance gain is not as great as using an SDD, it certainly helps reducing the wearing of an SSD.
Some may imply that the TBW is generally too big for the common user, the fact is that you dont need to wait to fill the TBW too see a decrease of performance on some SSDs, specially if there is no overprovisioning or even worse, if there is a lack of it.
Unfortunarly, althoguh win8/10 are more sensitive to move the temp folder, there is still gain of putting the web browser cache in a ramdrive, considering that a 8 hours cycle could easily be up for 2gb per cycle.
32GB is waaay more than you need to disable pagefile. In the past I ran a 2GB system without pagefile for years, then a 3.25GB system (4GB on XP) until fairly recently. Then my PC died thoroughly and I had to move to one with 2GB again. For that one I had to go back to using pagefile because the internet has gone to shit with the prevalence of horribly designed websites that use over a gig of memory if you try to open a few tabs at the same time. A couple of months ago I upgraded it to 6GB and immediately disabled pagefile and have not even come close to maxing out the RAM since. Hell, 4GB would be enough if you avoid opening bad websites and heavy games at the same time.
But that's on a PC with an integrated GMA 3150 GPU, for someone who plays recent demanding games 8GB is probably the minimum.
Also, I disabled the browser disk cache because it was constantly torturing my ailing 11 year old hard drive and I've not noticed any negative effects. I imagine any benefit of the cache was eliminated by the slow hardware.
In any case, my browser isn't really slow. So I definitely wouldn't reduce the lifespan of an SSD for a marginal improvement in browser performance.
On sale on Newegg right now. Trying to figure out if I should spend the $93 bucks for a 1TB 660p. Thanks for making this video!
Did you buy it?
@@kirbypodolan9285 nah I pulled out after watching this video.
Wish I would of watched this before picking up a 1tb one for 82 bucks. But my use case for it was only ever going to be as a game installation drive, so I don't feel too bad about it.
Background music was very distracting Linus. Dunno if it was just a matter forgetting to lower background audio. Great video tho
I still have my first 64gb ssd (when they first came out, I pre ordered one). Then i upgraded to a 128gb and now i have a 250gb. All still in the same system. All give the same boot speed. All feel the same. I doubt i'd notice anything about 500 mb read and write speed. So if they make it cheaper, all good for people like me!
I dont use SSD anymore, when they fail, its roasted, no recovery. At least a HDD starts hitting bumps and you have time to recover at least some files.
b/c of the WAN show, now I understand why he's joking about OCZ stock plummeting. 7:23
He had shares in that company before it got down. Nice one Linux
Take a look at the 665p, guys. Intel claims it has triple the TBW (600W) and 2gb/s speeds, even though it's still QLC. Think it'll be very interesting now for normal users.
In the beginnings of SSDs people were HORRIFIED by the fact that by its very own design SSD technology is made to last only a certain amount of writes, even if it was orders of magnitude higher than what the consumer would ever use (and thus almost always more durable than a HDD in practice due to mechanical deterioration of HDD moving parts). It was purely a psycological acceptance problem.
I wonder whether the same thing is happening now: i see a comment section full of people drawing the conclusion that modern SSDs are horrible, while the test data as Linus himself said show that the new technology works perfectly well except for edge cases you should never run into (completely filling your ssd so that it effectively has no room to use caching). And it allows for massively cheaper SSDs (as in, cost per GB). I would say it's a great technology tbh.
I plan for one of these to be my first SSD. Should still be a step up from mechanical.
Be aware! Just having chrome or firefox open wil use between 30 and 40GB of written data a day.
This is because they continuously save session data so in case of a crash you can restart the browser and it will reopen the tabs you had open before the crash.
At least on firefox you can set the interval between those session saves in the advanced settings (There are plenty of guides so if you want to change it just google it)
Chrome has no such option.
I've experienced this myself. After I got a windows warning that my Crucial M4 SSD (that had only 1.5 years of use on it) was running out of remaining life, I started monitoring the S.M.A.R.T. info using Crucial Storage Executive and found that Chrome was using up 17 Average Block-Erases a day on my crucial. (Which means that every cell on my SSD was erased 17 times each day)
The S.M.A.R.T. attribute 173 Average Block-Erase Count is currently at 2734. Windows errors began at 2700. 202 Percentage Lifetime Used is at 91% ( s 9% lifetime remaining)
I have moved the entire Chrome appdata folder to a HDD and linked it to the original location using the command line mklink command to link the new folder location using a symbolic link.
Since this change (over 2 months ago) en the average wear per day has dropped from 17 to less then 1 and Block Erase count is now 2768 which prior to the change it would have reached in a few days.
(Here is a link to an webpage on how to move the chrome folder: www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1044311-easier-way-to-move-the-location-of-google-chrome-cache-user-profile/ )
Thanks for the info, Robert. I use Chrome and had been dismayed that my C: drive was accumulating 8 - 12 GB of writes per day on days that I'd done little more than web browsing, more on heavy used days. Now I know why?
@@numbersix9477 Yes, Chrome is exactly why. And the more tabs you have open the more it writes.
are we going to notice this though. these drives are rapid, over 3 times faster and over 90% of reviews are brilliant. And the price is great.
as a 660p user, yes I do 100% notice it slow down, can see this often during certain game installs (Cyberpunk 2077 on Steam is especially bad, for some reason) and Valorant updates where my 660p is bottlenecking my 250Mbit/s internet connection. Once that SLC cache is filled up write speeds in particular drop to around 50MBps (so slower than a hard drive) on my 512GB model, and with increased access times, the whole system feels slow. That said, this is a problem exclusive to writes and as a general purpose SSD to boot off of or install smaller programs or games that take a more optimized approach when updating game files, it's still far better than a hard drive.
Still can't recommend you go out and buy a 660p though unless its cheaper (where you live) than some other popular TLC drives, like the WD SN570
Only reason i'm here is because my Kingston HyperX 128GB from the year 2011, died on me yesterday (RIP)! Was my OS Disc aswell...So now I'm looking to replace it, but i'm still unsure if i should replace it with an M.2 or an SSD, and which memory type has the longest lifespan. :)
"It goes up exponentially!" - shows a perfectly linear chart
Hej på dig
I think the X axis was exponential, which made the plot itself linear. Will check again and edit this
Edit: you're right, that one is totally linear.
Look at it closely, it’s exponential, not linear, if they gave a bigger graph and number, you’ll be able to see it clearer
Complexity goes exponentially (2,4,8,16 states) computation on the other hand is dependent on number of bits (1,2,3,4 bits).
The problem is that he did not make this distinction clear.
I don't know what's worse: That the "exponential" curve on the chart is linear, or that the audio/video sync after the chart in messed up.
i aint got time for 100 microseconds
You must be a busy man
hahha the irony. thanks
just your 2 cents i guess
GODDAMNIT do you know how many microseconds I have wasted reading this?
Ikr right, who would buy the 660p, defo not me...
"Intel not known for their aggressive pricing" *screams in CPUs*
Nahh Intel doesn't scream in cpu... They scream in 14 nanometers
Man if they pull of 7 nm people will shit a brick as they take back the market but due to Moore's Law CPUs will slowly lose their ability to get faster as transistors get smaller
@@Aragon1500 they arnt going to 10nm till 2021 by what quite a bit of people say. but staying at 14nm isnt going to get you any extra preformance. you can only push a node so far
@@albino_gringo1912 English is hard for some people....
High prices is not aggressive pricing, low pricing is.
This was a great example of what LTT does best - simplify extremely complex topics to be understandable to the normal consumer, while remaining interesting and in-depth enough for even advanced users, and giving a comprehensive and useful conclusion for all viewers.
Amazing stuff, this is why I love your work.
You left out "entertaining". I love Linus' presentations.
extremely complex huh
MisterPikol Whilst I find this stuff fairly simple, it's not hard to comprehend that people not working with it constantly will not. Much like Linus said in the last WAN show about phone users
This was a great example of name placement.
@@MisterPikol watch a episode of "nexus" reviews, the guy is hard core, great channel too if u want in depth discriptions, Linus is more for casual people who dont care about specifics and just want to know enough to make a decision to buy or not.
Finally, hard drives are faster than an SSD!
Wait what?
ROTFLOL! Thanks!
TessellatedGuy HDDs dip in performance too. Random writes on a HDD could drop it down to 20 mbs or worse
@@gareginasatryan6761 Yeah, no kidding. But then that makes perfect sense, given the mechanics of a hard drive. Assuming the drive isn't fragmented, if you're writing a single large file the drive gets to perform a single seek operation to find the starting point, then write continually, with at most the odd tiny repositioning of the head when it needs to change which track it's reading. (or the even smaller transition between different read/write heads).
When writing lots of small files, unless the OS organises them to be contiguous on the drive, it will need to seek to the new position, write a file, seek to the new position, etc.
The shorter the files, the more time is spent seeking. And a read head seek is an operation measured in milliseconds, if not hundreds of milliseconds, which is an absolute eternity to a computer. So you might find the drive spends as much as half it's time getting in position to write the next file, but not actually writing anything, if not a lot more. (depends on the exact filesize - practical tests with file fragmentation show that defragmentation doesn't matter much past chunks of about 64 megabytes, which also gives a reasonable idea of where the transition between what would be considered a 'large' and 'small' file would be in practice...)
Quite frankly, I never thought that my WD Velociraptor was slow. I know it is not the fastest but better than most other drives that are not SSDs. I got a Silicon Power S55 240 GB drive in my laptop and it is also pretty good. I might get one more for my desktop. I already have 32 GB of ram and an FX 8350.
Ye, and the 1Tb 660p costs as much as a 8Tb hdd
Would be interesting to see a review of the Intel H10 SSD which is a combo of the 660p and an Intel Optane module on one M.2 SSD. The Optane memory is kind of used as a cache as well which might make up for the QLC SSD.
wow its halo's general heed
Just buy a better drive to begin with
My laptop came with a H10 32GB Optane/512Gb. Crystal Disk says it's faster than a evo 970
@Anders Scott bruh that’s creepy
*_this post was made by the hard disk gang_*
This post comes to you courtesy of the SSD paired with a hard disk gang.
if you love life back off the hard disk gang boi
????????
That HAMR tho
@Sam Don't make me whip out my WANG drive now... No "floppy" stuff or 3.5" limits here!
In the near future everything will be:
How fast is it?
It depends.
Well how big is it?
Well it changes its size.
WTF? What can you tell me for a fact?
Well it cost a lot.
How much?
Well it depends...
brain programming using lights forcing you to buy products
@@johnjonjhonjonathanjohnson3559 well, it depends
Underrated comment.
No worries, the only ones that can do that are Apple and maybe Nvidia to its fans, all others have sufficing competition to be bullied into being baseline pro-consumer.
Tell about life?
It depends...
This is a very informative video. I was wondering why some modern SSDs were being sold as consumer products. This is making perfect sense as to how they are making NAND flash storage less expensive over time. I would still use that Intel 660p drive for storing files like games, 4k movies, music, etc...
Thank you, Linus and team for this very informative video.
thank you linus very cool
Yep, it sounds like these drives are fine as long as you are not as Linus put it 'slamming' the hard drive insisting on writing the peak amount of data write every second of every single day.
Let us be real here: SSD's are not about being able to write things to them 24/7/365. That is a regular old hard drives or a specialized enthusiast SSD's limelight.
These are for people who want drives that:
1. Will pretty much last forever under the average use case.
2. Will keep your data on it near forever under average use case.
3. Is faster than a regular hard drive under average use case.
It's more like those NVME drive could be used for office use !
@Mohammad Taher I like your thinking about this. As an office storage drive for faster read and writes of small to medium files. Yup, this 660P drive would probably be perfect.
@Mekronid and wooudo. You two got into a great conversation there. I am glad you shared this space here. I do remember a lot of that technology as well. Truthfully, I was never a fan of CD/DVD/Blu-Ray, technologies. I have and always prefer digital mediums or streaming services. Thankfully, we have choices to locally store media via Hard Drives, spinning media, or to a cloud service of our choice.
Thank you all for the inputs you have added here. Well, done.
the way Linus emphasizes his words is perfect, it makes it easier for my brain to understand the complex things he's talking about
While the argument that 5 years of warranty gives you a peace of mind is reasonable at first glance, it is not entirely solid.
What gives peace of mind is backing up your data. A drive without data is just an empty, disposable thing. The data is what's truly valuable.
Backup your data no matter what!
@@nath042 Just moving the data to external drives is a million times better than not duplicating it anywhere at all. So your argument is not exactly solid, if I'm honest. It is better to have the data duplicated in multiple locations, surely, but it's not the only way of doing things.
@@nath042 Oh, I see. Thank you for the clarification.
@@nath042 Bro I've lost so many memories with my best friend who killed himself at the age of 16... So many movie like memories... Fucking sad. Nothing will ever compare to that. I always back my stuff now. Always.
I put my data on hard drive while only system and program on ssd
Which is I think everyone doing atm
@@nath042 TWO IS ONE! ONE IS NONE! Backup your data in AT LEAST 2 locations ASIDE from your primary drive.
"Intel's not generally known for their aggressive pricing".
Laughs in 2700X that's $200 cheaper than the 9900k.
and only 15% slower, 9900k is awful value
@@jm036 Nice name bro
@@jm036 I just gave your comment a thumbs up based on your TH-cam user name. I'd give your comment a thumbs up, too, but it'll only allow me to give one thumbs up. WTF? I have *two* thumbs? Damnit, us two-thumbed people have *rights* you know! Christ Almighty, there has to be a second way to give a thumbs up for those of us who have two thumbs! *I will have justice*!
I'm guessing you mean the AMD 2700x? And BTW for whoever like AMD Newegg.com is selling the AMD 2700 for $229 until 11/25
@@jm036 here in Germany/Austria the Ryzen 2700x Costs less then 300 Euro the 9900k Costs 600 Euro+ so 15% more power but for 100% more price
This video was very well done. I remembered reading some article about slc ssds being superior to the multi celled ones, and this video cleared up all my confusion surrounding that.
In terms of reliability and endurance yes, but from what I’ve read and from personal experience MLC is pretty reliable too.
But do you wanna pay 200 $ for 120 GB? SLC is more expensive to produce and you get less storage per drive
For Enterprise purposes, SLC and even MLC will be used if Optane isn't. However for the average user, these denser storage options will be just fine. Once upon a time a SSD took the entire shell of a 3.5" drive. Now when you crack one open, it looks like a shorter M.2 drive. That's thanks to multi-tiered storage. Eventually they'll reach a limit and instead have to improve caching or how data is stored altogether.
I watched the video and still do not understand your comment lol. Is there an SSD's for morons out there?
@James Oren: Are you looking for information on the architecture of them, or a buyer's guide?
Just for kicks, they should have included a magnetic HDD for comparison. He keeps saying "slower than a hard drive". I want to see how much slower.
You can look closely at the benchmarks when he's talking about cache flush he shows the drop from 1210 MB/s max read speed to 64 minimum, so slower than a hard drive which would likely be 100+ (150-200 for enthusiast: "Seagate has branded the new actuator technology as "Mach.2" and set a new record for a single hard drive with 480 MB/s of sequential throughput, which is more than twice the standard 235 MB/s of the speediest 7,200-RPM enterprise HDDs.")
My 2TB Barracuda does somewhere around 130MB/s sustained, so a bit over half of that. Having said that, I also have the 256GB 660p as my OS drive, and it's frickin snappy considering it was like $140 more than 2 years ago.
@@morosis82 man its crazy to compare m.2 prices over the past couple years. you payed $140 for 256gb 2 years ago and that was probably a pretty good deal at the time and now we can get a 1TB drive from the same product line for 2/3 of that.
@@atdurard yeah, it was an absolute steal at the time, and despite the conclusion of this video at the time it was great value for its performance.
@@atdurard YEAH MAN! I want to get one but when is the next price drop on them! GOD DAMN I'll prolly wait for black Friday.
16 voltage levels? We're getting close to analog SSDs bois
True Valve storage!
@@MrMediator24 false, true, cat, isotope, box... Tall goat
inb4 This Analogue SSD Stores Pristine Audio From Vinyls (Take A Listen)
Retro style ! :)
ILC (Infinite Level Cell) SSDs with built-in A/D conversion
$200 in amazon for the 2tb now is insane value though
I just ordered the 1tb for $95. No brainer for a light-duty gamer such as myself.
Edit: 2 weeks of daily use and it is very quick. Using it as a boot drive with whatever game I happen to have installed. Longest part booting up is the bios splash screen and in games good luck reading the tips in a loading screen.
I got one. I hope I don't regret it...
Just bought one as well, arriving tomorrow
@@roadrage212 thanks for sharing your experience . i've buy a ssd last week (samsung 860 QVO at 100€ ) without knowing a thing about QLC and other type of ssd
Now i know that QLC (my ssd is a QLC 3D type) , is not a great one , but it seem okay .
i wish i've seen this video earlier : )
I’m also in the same boat... was waiting for the Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB but it has been delayed, and then I realised the Intel 660p 2TB is about 2/3 of the price... given I’m not a heavy user and it’s just to help me keep my Steam library with me and photos (but not heavy R/W everyday), I’m debating if this is a better option at circa $400 AUD vs. $600 AUD for the 970 Evo Plus.
In today’s world, the 660p is the best price per GB NVMe drive you can get.
Yea right now on amazon its like what 170 bucks, you cannot go wrong with a purchase like that
Jacob Roland I saw it for ~50$ for 500GB, ~100$ for 1TB and ~200$ for 2TB, making it as cheap, if not cheaper than most SATA SSDs
@@nulossul9526 why not just get a Corsair mp510, it's 50$ more for nearly double the speed.
KIMI Because I’m taking about price per GB, not speed.
@@nulossul9526 I guess Intel 660p is better than Samsung 860 EVO for pure gaming now, am I right ?
Hey random person scrolling down the comments..
Have a pleasant evening :)
I am not a random person I am a human Bean!
Thanks man, you too. Err... I just assumed your gender. Can we just assume that "man" in this usage case means "fellow human being"... er... except then I am assuming your species.... can we then mean "man" in this usage case to be a friendly, non gender specific, non species specific way of specifying a living organism, capable of writing TH-cam comments, regardless of gender, race, or species? Whatever the hell you are... thanks, you too.
Well then xD
@@floorpizza8074 holy fuck you are pathetic. Lift some weights.
How did you know I would he reading this in the evening?
I have the 600p as my OS and main game drive, and I have to admit I'm 100% satisfied with the performance.
Same, already have it for 8+ months. Still powerful and fast.
how is it holding up now? im thinking of going for it, or maybe i should go for a fast sata ssd, any ideas?
@@mystic-edits9646 Go for it! I have mine since september 2019, yet no issues at all!! I have 70gb space left, I need another SSD asap 😂
Snewo Productions oh your ssd is nearly full, doesnt that slow performance down a lot though? Also are you using it for operating system or games or?
@@mystic-edits9646 Not at all! I'm using this SSD for everything and everything works perfectly fine and it's fast! I came from a laptop with a HDD storage, so any upgrade was great as you would notice the loading time (OS, games, etc.) difference between a HDD and a SSD!
The load times of my games are still the same as when the SSD was less empty!
Slower/cheaper cost for manufacturer and they charge HIGHER prices..
Aris Tormreported
Yeah, because the SLC drives were 128GB. TLC drives are 1-2TB. QLC is probably going to go to 4TB+. Why? Because they're smashing more and more of these things into a device. QLC is more expensive per module, you just need fewer modules. But you're not really getting fewer modules, instead you're getting the same number with the size benefits of doing that.
No, but I sure am
oof
You can't just use self-deprecation for all your video comments, bruh.
Yeah kREmit, Kermit is still doin pretty good
0:23 Wtf is that
SSDs come in MLC or TLC. Picture is of girl group TLC which has most notable songs "No Scrubs" and "Waterfalls"
Spice Girls
Atomic Kitten
TLC
No one. That's who.
TLC Don't go chasing waterfalls lol
MLC for me. Pricing has come down to the point MLC SSDs are very affordable.
Exactly this sound exactly like what Kingston did with their SSD's. When they were using High-quality controllers and baited and switched them after all the good yields ran out of the flash. So they had to swap back to really low-quality flash and they covered it up by swapping controllers. After doing research, I have no clue what independent research or Independent validation of claims they did before laying it on thick. Because everything they said in the beginning and at the end doesn't make any sense with the results. If it is worse performance than a hard drive. How is it supposed to outlast a hard drive? I have a 1 TB Seagate Barracuda hard drive that I had for 8 years and I have written countless terabytes to it and blanked it completely out, And it still averages 195MB/s
sustained writes and reads to. I use it for an Adobe cache and for games that I'm currently not playing but I rather not uninstall. Moreover, from my research, the latency is so ridiculous on these drives that it almost seems emulated like Intel coded these drives to have this much latency on actual tasks executed. It doesn't matter about the read and writes speed when the latency is 990 ms during loads of a normal person for comparative response time for system usage and if you just start moving files over without doing anything else the latency will be 23ms for the system. So I can only imagine on hardware that is not the greatest, how lagtastic of experiences this will be.
Is a Samsung 860 Evo TLC V-Nand based SSD safe to store semi-important files? Would it last longer than a standard 1TB WD Blue?
@@Phambleton Why would it not be safe? Samsung is one of many reputable SSD brands, so it's about as safe as it gets. Whether it will outlive a HDD is virtually impossible to answer, as SSD and HDD lifespans degrade entirely differently. Generally speaking though, today's SSDs can outlive HDDs. HDDs do however often take some time to die (while giving weird behavior or partially losing data) before they actually die.
As always though, if you don't like to wake up to a dead drive and lose these 'semi-important files', back them up. SSD or HDD, or any other media... they can always fail, and there are other possible ways to lose data too. like a house fire or robbery.
LMFAO good one! like the girl band xD
9:53 "...this is Intel we're talking about, they're generally not known for their aggressive pricing."
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh, Linus, you're hilarious!
aggressive pricing means it's priced aggressive against competitors giving a better bargain towards the consumer
@@MaskOfCinder don't know about those clockspeeds, Intel still has that sweet 5ghz I guess. Also when talking more cores, it depends on what you're doing. Gamers don't need more than 8 core/8 threads or 6 core /12 threads. Unless you do productivity, all those extra cores aren't needed for something like gaming:)
I think in general productivity stuff like AMD is awesome because of it's cores, or for good budget builds. For gaming I would definitely go Intel, even if zen 2 releases, I don't think their singlecore performance will be beaten and still more games are optimized max 8 threads and for Intel CPU's as well. (Also don't take numbers of Intel and AMD keynotes too strict, both know how to make the other look worse as much as possible:P) If you edit a lot, go AMD:)
The problem about all that will be that QLC and TLC will not be staying on the market (consumer) as two separate product lineups, but TLC will be discontinued slowly because QLC offers either higher profits for the manufacturer or a lower price in order to saturate the market more. Same with MLC and TLC which is just sad: The 860 PRO is the only viable MLC model left.
I bought a single 860 Pro 4TB SSD to replace my mirrored 3TB HDDs.
With the samsung magician software turbo, it reads/writes at 5000.
and that's with it at 80% capacity full. (given I have 32GB of DDR3 RAM as cache)
@@KevinFelker excuse me as I am kind of an idiot, but did you set up your ram to work as the 860's cache, or is that simply the amount of ram you have on your computer? I'd assume just simply having the Ram on your computer wouldn't make your 860 Pro faster, but again I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff.
@@USACorrupted It's simply the sum of my RAM sticks.
The Samsung Magician software is where the magic happens. It creates a buffer using you RAM, so naturally the more RAM you have spare, the more room it has to maintain a buffer.
It can only do it on a single Samsung SSD in your system.
For example, I have a 1TB Samsung (for my OS) and a 4TB Samsung. Since the Samsung Magician software it a process that starts at windows boot, it won't accelerate my boot, so I applied it to my 4TB drive that I have all my games and movies stored on.
So true, this needs to be pinned.
No, MLC and TLC will still be used for higher-end SSDs.
If Linus shaves his hair off.
Will wires grow back in its place?
YES and they are USB-C Thunderbolt
@@jneydog2 ...... It made you so hard? 😥
yes
no yes no yes no
My Samsung Evo 850 has 3 years and I didn't even hit the 100 TBs. And it's life expectancy it's of 150 TBW. Let's be honest, the 660p it's an optimal choice for most who don't write 100GBs per day.
100GBs per day? That's a lot for each day.
Or you could just get a Samsung 860 Evo TB for $12 less...
Isn't the 660p faster as it's pci-e instead of sata? I went with the 660p because some benchmarks showed it loading things a sata SSD would load in half the time such as booting and some game maps. Half the time isn't much real time though still being seconds of difference.
Carlos Giovani that’s true actually, however, I think depending on the use case, it doesn’t really matter. Especially if you are writing a lot, then a Samsung would be better. Since it has a longer endurance, even if it’s just a little more
That's what I use. Samsung 860 Evo 500mb. Besides vnand and read/write I can't find specs though, even on its spec sheet.
Great drive though. Zero complaints.
This thread sponsored by Samsung
Today, yes. Next year, QLC will be correspondingly cheaper than TLC.
Well, you want cheap high capacity ssds.
That's how that works.
Single cell terabyte ssds would otherwise be unaffordable and we'd prolly go back towards 3.5 inch drives eventually
I usually like Linus but he missed the mark here: these drives are NOT meant to replace traditional NVME storage for editing and working on large files. Rather, they are designed to replace traditional SATA drives for things like boot drives and game storage. In other words, these drives are not designed for 90% of the use cases he brought up. Seriously at the time of this comment Intel's 660p drives are actually cheaper than most 2.5 inch SATA drives, which is kinda ridiculous.
Garrett Henze what SSD is good for work then i dont get it
@@nocodenoblunder6672 Samsung Evo 970 for example. Basically the NVME SSDs that use SLC or MLC instead of QLC like the 660p
He literally made half of the video talking about it
4:36 that doesn't seem like an exponential graph, more like a linear one
My thoughts exactly
But I guess he was talking that it'll increase exponentially after we increase the cache by a lot, idk
it's actually logarithmic vs the number of states, qlc stores 16 states (4 bits) on one cell, tlc 8 states, mlc 4, and slc 2 (0 or 1).
This was the most informative explanation of SSD tech that I've ever seen. Thanks!
So you will buy optane now?
@@andreasosowski7302 My laptop came with it (1tb) lmao
@@TsunaXZ you mean 1 TB HDD + intel optane
@@rishirajsaikia1323 No the default was 1TB optane with extra slot. I've added 2TB firecuda sshd afterwards.
Exponentially worse - proceeds to show a linear graph 🤔
they were sort of two different subjects.
Modern SLC gets upwards of 50,000 writes per cell, MLC does around 10,000, TLC gets more around 1,000, and now QLC is numbered in the hundreds.
It's bad.
Hopefully next year Samsung will start to offer SLC again at $0.50/Gig, which would still be profitable compared to TLC at the $0.08/Gig that is being rumored for 2019.
He addressed that in the video. The time grows linearly, but the number of states to sift through grows exponentially.
yea 2^1
I have this ssd, and im getting under 1 megabit per second download speed! It took me 4 days to install GTA V!
One of the best videos from LTT overall.
Kudos to Linus, Ivan, Alexandre, Brandon & everyone else involved in making this!
I can actually chime in with my own experience using the 660p for about two months now. I bought two of the 512GB drives to put in RAID 0 (that was the only size available at launch). They've been absolutely excellent for me (gaming, videos, programming, and mild file transferring are my use cases) and are showing an average of 14% speed decline on benchmarks at 62% full vs. 2% full when I first installed the system. Boot times are near instantaneous and have been the whole time. If you're a serious enthusiast looking for the best performance you can find, or you use your drives hard, these may not be for you, but for my more casual purposes, they've been absolutely excellent so far.
>Boot times are near instantaneous
WHAT
@@flameshana9 That one is, admittedly, not all on the drives, the motherboard has a fast boot setting that works wonders to avoid long POST times. Also I may have exaggerated a tiny bit for effect. It's actually about 1-2 seconds.
I picked one up over Black Friday. The 2TB for $250 couldn't believe my luck. Then I see this video...
But I don't plan to write 50+GB every day. Boot LITERALLY takes 6 seconds from the POST screen, and it's unbelievably fast at loading games and software. And this is coming from someone who was using 4 SSD's in raid 0 since 2013.
Are you using a PCIE adapter? I don't know too many boards with two m.2 slots.
@@UnrealZii ASRock Z370 Pro4 is the board I used. It's getting more common these days to have two M.2 slots, there were other options on that front as well.
I wouldnt use QLC, i'd only use it as an OS and APPs that don't write data much.
This is the kind of in-depth review that every system builder appreciates and needs!
no! it's not "WORSE"....it's good and cheap!
Oh God no. It has amazing value/money! The endurance still is more than good enough for 99.99% of the consumers... This is the ideal ssd to just skip the hdd in your system! And still way more reliable than hdd's. And if you're still paranoid. Just get a 970 evo plus as main drive and use this one as second drive!
Another issue that comes with increased density and is aggravated by multilevel cells is adjacent cell disturbance. This increases the requirements for error correction which also slows performance. Many enterprises SSDs have hardware ECC engines doing things like BCH or LDPC to solve this problem. Consumer drives that pick this task up with fimware take on quite a workload. Also higher end SSDs use DRAM for a cache which is much faster than using some NAND in SLC. This way you are not using your NAND channels for cache communications.
Not sure how it was 8 months ago, but many new SSDs use both. About 512MB to 1GB of DRAM cache and also using part of the capacity as SLC, because why shouldn't it be used as faster SLC if the capacity is not being used right now.
TLC's Nandfalls??
Don't go chasing Nandfalls. Please stick to the read and the write that you're used to
I know that you're gonna have it your way or nothing at all
But I think you're moving too fast…
Oh my god. This may be the funniest TH-cam comment ever made....
Lol, I see what you did there...
Still happy with my 860 Evo 1TB..
Considering the point of QLC (or at least should be) is getting larger drives down in price to make HDDs unnecessary even in budget situations, I find this sub-HDD performance unacceptable. It was ok back in the Intel X25-M with the small sizes, but if I am getting a 1TB SSD and imaging a 500GB-1TB HDD over to it as an upgrade, why on earth would I tolerate the SSD being the bottleneck?! Out of principle, I share Linus' discomfort... just... no. 200MB/s minimum sequential write speed on a large SSD or GTFO.
And then, we have the Adata's SX8200... performance-wise, this thing takes a giant dump on all other budget SSDs on the market for the same price. QLC SSDs need another generation to be worthy. Only 1TB plus, 200MB/s minimum seq. write, and significant savings vs TLC.
You misunderstand the point slightly: This isn't something to be fixed with time - It is an inherent flaw with adding additional memory layers: As shown by the delay increase linus showed being 25 microsec per added layer
@@bengrogan9710 False. This IS something that will be fixed with time. Increased parallelism (made possible by dropping the sub-TB capacities), combined with upcoming iterations of QLC, WILL improve sequential write speeds, as is ALREADY evident when you compare the 512GB models to the 1TB models.
I believe you have misunderstood MY point. There should be no performance benefits to owning a HDD over an SSD at this point. 100 microsecond latency on QLC vs 25 on SLC is neither here nor there when comparing to a HDD. If you are using a HDD or a QLC SSD for your main drive, anyway, with tons of hot data, you are doing it wrong. Big drives are often used for big transfers. There is no place for 100MB/s transfer speeds in a world where transfers can be measured in terabytes.
Well their 1TB SSD is $166 and the 512GB is $90. That's $60-100 cheaper than current drives and is insane considering it's Intel. I'd imagine Samsung or other manufacturers can nearly cut that price in third or half when they deploy similar tech. At that point for a drive/workload that doesn't require a ton of writing I can see this having potential. Only time will tell.
@@sergeantnathan6152 4 times the access latency per bit is far beyond the threshold of "Neither here nor there" as this video demonstrates.
The Samsung 970 pro for is a good example of this as it uses MLC rather than TLC specifically to avoid the issue shown in stark daylight here
But feel free to point me to which of the 4 levels of parallelisms that will somehow abate a quadrupling of access latency, which the drive manufacturers evidently don't see as they simply add a cache to push the issue outside of the most common use cases
Simply putting claims in BLOCK CAPITALS doesn't lend any credibility.
And as for There should be no benefit to a HDD over an SSD, I'm sorry for you being so far up yourself as to think that SSDs are some sort of dream technology with no drawbacks - Reality doesn't work that way
@@habirton While I would never pay out of pocket for the 512GB, I WOULD get swayed by the 1TB for the right price, for a specific use: games drive. Especially when empty, the transfer from the existing drive will transfer at full speed for a good chunk of the games. After that, sequential doesn't matter so much, as my internet connection will only be 300Mb/s (38MB/s... although gigabit internet users might be held back SLIGHTLY... that is if Steam's servers can feed it fast enough). But it's still a tough sell with the SX8200 being just a little bit more (which I already bought, so it's just for client systems now). We'll see how Black Friday changes things.
For everyday use, it's good enough. I'm keeping my EVO 860.
After getting realistic, lets get more realistic, and after that, even more realistic.... say whaaaaat ?
"I guess that's okay. Even if it makes me uncomfortable."
Nice video. The only thing missing is underwear.
Yeah, when you mentioned device life being lower.... first thing I thought was "yeah, but what is it for a real user?"
not too important for end users
so this is a good nvme then?
@@mystic-edits9646 yes!
This drive is actually really good. Yes, QLC is slower and has lower endurance and after about 70GB of continuous writes, the cache will run out and you will go down to sub-HDD sequential writes. BUT, none of that really matters to 99.9% of users. The endurance is still way more than 99.9% of people will ever need, you'll almost never sequentially write more than 70GB without a break at full speed, and the write speed is still 1.8GB/s. It's still MUCH better than a SATA drive (which itself is enough for almost anyone) and it costs the same as a SATA drive. That's what's amazing about this drive, it's the first NVMe drive that directly competes with SATA drives.
Stop! Let Linus rant
You know nothing about the actual endurance of QLC! 99.9% of people??
Than I am in those .1% lol
"the cache will run out and you will go down to sub-HDD sequential writes. BUT, none of that really matters to 99.9% of users." LOL that's the dumbest thing written on this entire page.
@@KodyXXVll No it's not. You all need to do more research. This is a very fast drive for it's intentended usage which is random writes/reads. I can pick a drive that's much faster in constant heavy writes but it will be slower for everyday tasks. Everything has tradeoffs and Intel has picked the right trade offs for general usage. If you have a need for heavy writes or workstation usage then sure this isn't good. 1TB version was $88 a few days ago, this is budget SSD pricing it's competing against.
F in chat for Stan lee
F
F
F
4:40 audio/video out of sync at this point? Feels like it too me at least.
Yea, looks like it went out of sync at that point.
maggru91 looks like ADR to me
I thought I was seeing things with the audio sync issue lol.
It's a subtle joke about latency, guys ;)
The videos was rendered using this drive hehehe.
I think it's more geared towards smartphones where you have even fewer writes, and high density is most important.
Ymi_Yugy true.
I do believe QLC will become the new entry level for PC SSDs, honestly. With MLC no longer being mainstream but 'enthusiast' grade now.
@@HazewinDog mlc has to stay around.