Nemesis not being in the Irredeemably Unsympathetic Tier is surprising. You know, because of committing genocide and using the victims bones as weapons. ..
Anankos did nothing wrong and is easily the most sympathetic of them all, i too would go insane if i was forced to hear azuras singing for all of eternity.
Anankos not only he bacame Mad but split his Spirit apart and recruit Heroes from another time to help Corrin finish him. Also he killed his best friend. "Why I am the One to surfer, why I am the One left to die?"
Definitely, although Anankos made a big 🤡 mistake with not taking off with his buddies when they left, but I don't remember what the reason was for Anankos staying
I still love making (almost but not really) jokes about how Ike is just an anti-human racist who blames humans for being racist but is nice to Soren and Laguz when they're racist. I guess it's okay to be racist when they're your friends/you wish you had claws like them???? Also the fact that at the end of FE10 he just leaves everyone and everything, including his own sister, who begged him not to leave her like their father did when he was killed. Absolute scumbag who only cares about the people he wants to make out with, and I'd definitely put him in an antagonist spot just to make people REEEEEEE.
@@charlettmoon2693 To be fair, the Laguz kinda had a point, so Ike siding with them makes sense. And from my knowledge, they were racist to the scumbags that led Begnion. The thing about him leaving though...... Yeah that was an oversight by the writers for sure.
My favorite antagonist is the pirate captain guy in FE7 that escorts you to the dread isle, because i spent a long fucking time trying to beat him only to find out it gives you a game over if you do. In my defense, he stated he likes a good fight. He's just a sore loser who dies when he's killed.
I’m actually one of the few people who has a soft spot for Rhea. Sure, her hoping Byleth would become the key in getting her mother back is questionable, but regarding her placing Sothis’s crest stone in Byleth as a baby, what other option did she have? Had she not done that, Byleth would’ve died right then and there. Really, her bigger blunder there was simply not being more upfront with Jeralt about what happened. Obviously telling him the full truth would involve divulging knowledge tying to the Nabateans, which she naturally doesn’t wanna risk. But even simply telling him she had to use a forgotten ritual or something like that at Sitri’s behest, or something along those lines, that would’ve likely been the wiser course of action than just dismissing any notion something happened altogether.
And let’s not also gloss over the face she’s basically Jesus to Sothis’ God. Like Sothis was a LITERAL GOD on earth. She’s not just trying to bring back mommy, she’s trying to resurrect an actual creation diety who shapes their world. This isn’t an Ulrick brothers situation this is a god is dead, we have killed him, how do we get him back situation.
My favorite comment thread in this video, yes this is the essense of fire emblem. Senile boomer with all their accumulated wealth takes arms against the youngins.
Not to mention he had a child with a manakete to potentially create a strong human-dragon hybrid, then instead uses the child as blackmail to force another manakete to be his mount. Truly hardcore!
Zephiel may be evil, but you've got to appreciate his commitment. When he wants so wipe out humanity, he is included. When he is defeated, he stalls so that Idunn can continue the genocide.
I always liked the story of Berkut because it's like a Shakespearian-style tragedy of a prince who gradually loses his grandeur and turns self-destructive trying to claw it back. Very edgy, very interesting.
Berkut is so gloriously beautiful! He was born with everything, but he lost everything to who he thought he was a mere peasant... but resulted to be a king instead xD. Fernand is also a great one ^^.
Sombron is the most sympathetic villain ever guys!!!! He brainwashed his children and use them as soldier in a war to conquer the world because when he was a childeren some guy has stolen his candy and I don't really know actually but come on he gave us a 1 our monologue about his backstory out of nowere how can I don't sympathise with him. I was crying when I learn that he lost his best friend because somthing and then some other thing and then Kaga emblem. Truly the moment of my life
On the topic of bosses, I would say King Garon of Nohr. If I recall, he was originally a kind man and when it was revealed that an evil dragon was attempting to destroy Nohr and Hoshido, he tried to make an alliance with Hoshido but he ended up getting controlled and starting a war with Hoshido anyways.
Yeah like if that was something we got to see or was properly explained like have people talk about what he was like in the past it would make Norh a lot less obviously evil since then we would actually have to wonder if Garon is doing what he does for a good reason as a kind man who knows when to harden his heart for the good of his people would look like a monster to Hosido but to Norh a tragic king who is only doing what he has to
@@TrueBladeSoulAgreed. It was sadly only touched upon, based on memories of a few others, but only that, because Fates’s writers said F it... If it was properly explained/delved into, I can see him being much higher on the list.
@@mihaimercenarul7467 something like that could have worked when he was dying but remember he was basically dead at this point only being animated and controlled by Anankos
I'd call Conquest Garon, Hans and Iago very sympathetic because they constantly make me crack up while reading Fates story which is a lot more than I can say about almost any other villain.
I'd argue Hans is irredeemably unsympathetic for me, since we flat out know he was a criminal in his past who was incarcerated for his crimes, and even after being given a second chance in joining the military, he never quit being a criminal and upgraded to war crimes instead, as well as disobeying his superiors on the regular. He really only gets away with it because Garon was already gone by then, replaced by the puppet Anankos put in his place, but the old Garon we hear about would've definitely put a stop to him very fast. Iago, on the other hand, comes across as somewhat unsympathetic to me. He really seems like someone who was super loyal to Garon and let that loyalty blind him to the point that, once Garon was replaced by Anankos' puppet, he had no problems continuing to do what Garon asked, even as those demands became cruel and evil. So naturally, he'd plan to ruin Corrin's day if Garon asked, and was correct (from his viewpoint of Garon still being there even though we know Garon was gone) to lash out against the siblings for their apparent betrayal. We never got to see the real King Garon. From what we know of him through supports and other such things, it seems that he would perhaps be a more sympathetic figure. A gentle father who just could not bring himself to leave all the women he loved, inadvertently, causing the death of a lot of them. I wonder when he died exactly? That would be interesting to figure out, since he is clearly a puppet by the time we first meet him in Fates.
I would put Rhea and Edelgard in the "Somewhat Sympathetic" tier, simply because both of them have the capacity for both love and compassion, but they take extreme actions they feel they must in order to preserve the world. Depending on the path and ending, both Rhea and Edelgard are perfectly willing to step down and leave the future of the world in someone elses hands. Rhea leaves the church to Byleth, and Edelgard honors her own system, and actually steps down as emperor for someone more "worthy" in some cases. It's of course very dependent on what path you look at, but even at their worst, i would say that Rhea would be the one who should be lowest on the list. So the fact that they can both show remorse, loyalty, honor and even love towards Byleth and others, make it seem unfair to paint them as irredeemable or unsympathetic...
I would like to add some context for Rudolph and Rhea. Rudolph rules a nation that is lacking in arable land. Rigel was suffering famine so he went to the sister kingdom of Zofia. King Zofia said " Ha! No" and continued to party and have unprotected sex with random women. Celica and her brother are his only surviving bastard children. Rudolph responded by finding the Falchion, killing Mila, then killing Zofia and his entire family. Rigel is raiding Zofia for resources. Rhea is very much like Medeus in that her people were massacred by Nemesis and his Elite. A lot of her more troubling actions make more sense with the understanding that her entire culture and race were destroyed, and she now has to live with the descendants of her oppressors. The same descendants that swing around the mutilated corpses of her kin and kill each other in droves. Edelgard additionally forces her out of her ancestral land in every route of Three houses.
@pandabanaan9208 They were homunculi they were never human to begin with. Rhea created artificial humans/Nabateans and then adopted and raised as her own children. There wasn't any human experimentation.
@@pandabanaan9208 You mean the hominculi she created for one specific purpose? Something like that isn’t exactly immoral considering that she makes them herself.
@pandabanaan9208 When you get down to it Rhea creates artificial to revive her mother, but the life she creates is a new life, yeah she's disappointed but he reaction to that new life is to adopt it as far as her child and have it live out it's natural lifespan in such a way that people can't even tell the difference between her humunculous children and a regular human. That's why she's only made 12 in 1000 years. Is it messed up that she creates artificial life? Yes, but that's where it ends.
It also needs to be considered what she does during the game. She kills anyone who doesn't agree with her and is willing to harm innocent civilians to stop her enemies as seen in the endgame of CF.
Wow a tier list that actually managed to hold my attention throughout the whole thing, congrats. For me personally I like Ashnard a lot. I think if they had fleshed him out a little more to show a man who longed to set things right and slowly became what we see in the games from all his bloodshed he could have been one of the greatest villains in the series. Anankos is peak, his reasonings and machinations will be revealed when he returns in Rev 2
@@Speedwinghere Most people generally do not claim FE10 to have a good story, even with localization or extended script-changes. It was always about FE9 and the Blood Pact is very much something backwards-extended into the prior plot by the sequel.
@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast dude if blood contract didnt exist. silver hair maiden we wouldnt fight her. think of without brain chips for clones. it would ahd changed very different
I would argue Anankos does get some credit for taking steps to try and prepare the world to kill him after he goes mad, so that's a step above someone like Duma. Of course, there are no steps to go above, so he's in the right spot on the tier list, but just wanted to point that up.
I think you put nemesis a bit too high. He and a group of his buddies wiped out all but a handful of people by raiding them in the night while they slept. That and they yoinked the bodies literally turning them into weapons and drinking their blood to roid up. Plus if im remembering right three houses implies that the sacred weapons are kind of alive? (Pls correct me if im wrong on that)
Grima has some lore explored in post game shadows of valentia...and yes, fire emblem heroes. He basically hates humans because his creator betrayed him because forneus feared grimas power and sealed him away. Nothing spectacular but its something.
Quick thing to note about Nemesis, Edelgard and Seiros. Nemesis is given a backstory. He is a thief who killed Rhea's mother Sothis due to the prodding of TWSITD, and then committed genocide on all the Nabateans (rhea's people), feeding their blood to his elite commanders and using their bones as weapons. So yes, he is entirely unsympathetic. Fun villain, though. Rhea's backstory is that her whole race, who just wanted to help humans, was wiped out thanks to Nemesis, with the exceptions of Seteth and Flayn. In addition to this, the reason why she put Sothis's heart in Byleth is because Byleth's mother Sitri was on the verge of death and this was the only way of saving his/her life. Still does some messed up things, mainly in the last chapter of crimson flower, and it is kind of messed up that she never explained this to Jerald, but I would still bump her up a tier, maybe even two if you really want to push it. I don't have much to disagree with on Edelgard, just wanted to add that all she really had to do if she wanted to change the system was talk to Dimitri and Claude, both of whom she got along with, and the gaslighting done in Crimson flower significantly hurt my love for the game. She has one of the most sympathetic backstories, but due to her actions, yeah, she still goes in the bottom tier. So to summarize, Rhea should have been in somewhat sympathetic while Nemesis and Edelgard move to/stay in Entirely Unsympathetic.
Oh yeah because I’m sure if Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude talked then the church, which is the most powerful faction on the continent, would just roll over. Also what makes you think Claude and Dimitri would agree with her, chances are if she reveals who she is it ends the same way for Dimitri since he still thinks that somehow Edelgard killed his family, so at best she has the leister alliance on her side but even then I reckon Claude would be way more likely to side with the church as he does before. Also are you really saying that Crimson Flower is trying to “gaslight” you into finding Edelgard sympathetic, where does it gaslight you exactly?
@@sonofpears4691 First of all Church is NOWHERE near being "most powerfull faction". They don't even have conscripts nor it's united. Second when Empire dunked on their local branch Church, it did just rolled over. Rhea has zero influence in Empire ever since. Third I do agree that CF did not try gaslight anyone into finding Edelgard symphatetic. She is straighforwardly villain even in her own route and I think game was quite honest honest about it (well maybe except changing characterisation of such characters as Ferdinand, Caspar or Dorothea... I guess that counts?).
Nemesis I think is possibly a bit sympathetic because if I remember correctly, he was manipulated by TWSITD, and while it is unclear how good of rulers the Nabateans were, we know that they used to govern each part of Fodlan, and he genuinely was just trying to free humanity from them. Still irredeemable though since the Nabateans probably weren’t bad beings and he still committed genocide. I agree with everything you said about Rhea, and I’d also add to that because as if Nemesis killing her kind wasn’t enough, she then had to paint the man who killed, and stole the bones of her family as a hero for the sake of not causing conflict with humanity since since Nemesis was thought to be freeing humanity from draconic creatures, and despite all that humanity has done to her, she still wants the world to be a better place for them as well (probably another reason she wants to bring Sothis back since Sothis would be able to lead the world better than she can, and not needing the corrupt crests system to keep things stable). For Edelgard, I kind of disagree with that. We’ve seen what happens when Edelgard tried to trust Claude. He potentially betrays her, comes off as sneaky and as someone whose smile doesn’t match his eyes as Byleth puts it, and it isn’t until Claude’s been at the officers academy for a while hanging with the students, and Byleth that he becomes a better person (not that he wasn’t good before, but he wasn’t completely innocent and to be trusted fully). Also, there is the fact that Edelgard would want everything to be ruled by her as she feels she needs to maintain order, while Claude would also want to rule over all for similar reasons. Also, Edelgard couldn’t trust Dimitri either because while he doesn’t seem to like everything the church does, he’s too loyal to the church and it would be hard for Edelgard to pursue him especially since Dimitri couldn’t be kind yet at the time, and Edelgard already having to work with TWSITD before the game starts. Also, there is no telling how much surveillance TWSITD have over Edelgard because we know that Thales can just show up and either brainwash Edelgard, or turn her into her Hegemon form. I think she deserves at least somewhat sympathetic.
21:10 nemesis, I believe, was established either in the DLC or the GW route, was supposedly just some bandit guy that happened to work well as a figurehead for the Agarthans to prop up as their pawn of revenge against the Nabataeans. So he’s probably just a pawn doing it for power, but idk.
Thales speaks of his people having been driven underground by Rhea's people in the past, but then he also just attacks everyone in sight and became a 'I shall conquer the surface world!' villain, even abducting children to replace them with shapeshifters. I believe it's also implied that it was his people that murdered Sothis and most of her children, then made their bones into The Heroes' Relics. Hell, the Sword of the Creator is Sothis' own spine and the Crest Stone is her actual heart, which he then gave to a powerful Thief King called Nemesis to go kill her daughter Rhea with! I understand his motivation but his evil is way past redemption. Nemesis then also had the nickname King of Thieves besides King of Liberation, so he was already evil before he became the warlord killed by Seiros/Rhea, also irredeemable.
In the DLC a Slither book reveals that the reason for his beef with the Nabateans is because the Slithers want to perform genocide in all surface dwellers (they had already wiped out several civilizations by them) and Sothis (being a goddess of life) took offense to that.
@@Waauugh This is incorrect, the book bright is referring to only states that the Agarthans began to fight with each other and attempted to overthrow Sothis resulting in the genocide of most of the civilization, thus implying that Agartha was the global power at that point. The desire to destroy all surface dwellers came afterwards as a result of them worshiping Sothis. I am not saying they didn't deserve what happened to them though, said book also references their "carnal nature" and proclivity towards violence.
@@Aleph3575 Ooyyy, so there's no good true good sides then. OR, this is just speculation on my part, we can look at the Agarthan technology. Maybe it was damaging the world and Sothis came down and went "Bro, stop."
As a mental health professional, I would say that the trauma experienced by Zephiel and Edelgard are vastly underrated in their placements on the list. Yes, trauma doesn’t excuse their actions but the tiers are measured in degrees of sympathy, not justification. First, with Zephiel, his father tried to have him killed on multiple occasions. With the last attempt, there is a detail that you don’t mention that makes Zephiel’s descent to madness a bit ironic. Despite his father being absolutely terrible as a father and the man himself implies he’s nothing special to look up to, Zephiel does because he is his father. In the moment where he is poisoned, Zephiel goes into it extremely hopeful that he has finally gained the respect of his father despite having no reason to believe as such. That is why his father’s betrayal is so hurtful. Zephiel had so much hope that the betrayal of said hope had such the extreme effect it had on him. On top of this he had to kill his father or risk yet another attempt on his own life which just further compounds his trauma. Next, with Edelgard, she literally witnesses her 10 siblings all die horrific deaths in front of her on top of the cruel experimentation done on her. She was taken as a political prisoner by the other nobles in the insurrection of the seven as well, which is what allowed the experimentation to take place. This is on top of everything else that is just messed up in Fodlan, take Hannemann as a good example of the horrors of the Crest system. You’re sympathetic towards characters like Lyon and Julius because they had no control over being possessed. Zephiel and Edelgard had no control over their circumstances either. Lyon and Julius were released from their pain since they lost themselves. Zephyrs and Edelgard had to live with their pain up until their respective deaths. Yes, these are all just video game characters at the end of the day, however, I was compelled to write this because of the very real issue mental health can be and how this is something we can all benefit from being more mindful of.
While tier lists are obviously based on opinion (literally the whole point), I also got frustrated a bit with how much Egg switched between sympathy and justification villain by villain.
@@brightlight8852 By that argument, Lyon should also be viewed as unsympathetic because he choose to try and bring his father back to life rather than embrace ruling Grado himself when Vigarde died which is what led to his possession.
@Aleph3575 Well yeah, ultimately Leon had a choice and he made the wrong one it's not wrong to hold it against someone for making the wrong choice when they weren't forced to do it.
Edelgards whole shtick seems to allign with Rudolf and Walhart. Despite being a pretty intelligent character, her plan is kind of dumb and demands lots of unnecessary sacrifice and she is undoubtetly the main instigator of the war that plaques Fodlan for over 5 years. Its really hard to say if Edelgard deserves to hang with the Rigel boys up in Somewhat symphathetic tier but remaining stuck with guys like the Gharnefs and Ashnard is maybe a bit disingenuous. Maybe being in Somewhat Unsympathetic tier suits her best, surrounded by similar warmongers with sad pasts like Gangrel, Zephiel and Arvis. And speaking of moving up, though Rhea did, in her own words, questionable things, she did suffer similar tragedy as Medeus, seeing almost her entire kin slaughtered and turned into makeshift weapons by humans but did not go to drastic genocide solutions like Medeus, Zephiel or Sephiran and instead ruled Fodlan for over thousand years in relative peace. That is to say, she should most likely sit next to Medeus in the tier. Of course, these things, especially the 3H cast, are highly subjective. Oh, but Nemesis definetly goes to evil tier. This guy slaughtered dozens of innocents and made weapons out of their bones. It does not get any nastier than this. Honestly, I am baffled that Rhea allowed the reveration of Nemesis and the Ten Elites in the history books, hell, making most of their descendants even into nobles, after what they did to her family.
To add to medeus' hatred, the founder of the kingdom of archanea, ardrah, removed the star spheres from the binding shield to sell for money, weakening the seal and making the earth dragons go crazy. He then used the money to sweep across the continent and start his kingdom, and used the gemless shield as his nation's crest, the fire emblem. This was mentioned in fe3 book 2, not the remakes. Really, if someone caused the insanity of my people to make money (even if indirectly), I would be pissed.
I think you oversimplified rheas motivation significantly. It's not just the loss of her mother that she mourns. Humans, including the 10 heroes, murdered her entire species in a fully unprovoked war. She still had the compassion and farsight to establish the church, change history so that the murderers of her kind became known as the 10 heroes and tried her darndest to get humans to at least use the legacy of her kin, the crests, for a better future. Instead she had to babysit them for centuries while they use the crests to do horrible research on each other, kill each other, create crest beasts and have nothing better to do than murder each other just as senselessly as they murdered the nabatheans. Rhea is exhausted. She feels her sanity and her compassion slipping. She holds no love for humans after centuries of this nonsense and wants to revive her mother not only because of personal attachment, but also so that sothis can become the new archbishop and rhea can abdicate a position that has been slowy, but surely driving her insane. Imho she should at least be in the somewhat sympathetic tier
I don't think building a church in the middle of the continent to raise children in order to kill any opposition for possibly centuries is "babysitting" the world and trying to make a better future. I don't think it had anything to do with compassion. It's just my opinion, but considering how it was shown she didn't give a fuck about any of the past children and men she had children with in order to resurrect her mother, and that she started caring about Byleth ONLY when he became the first one to be THIS close to be the successful attempt she wanted, makes me think she's entirely selfish, and that she wouldn't have hesitated a SECOND to kill of Byleth and co. If they didn't awaken like the others, and if everything wasn't going to change anyways (depending on your route). She probably would have started all over again having other children with other dudes for that reason, and continue to assert her dominance on Fodlàn for generations like she did up to this point. Imo it really feels like she didn't lose any compassion or anything, but that she ALWAYS was self absorbed. Remember that the Rhea that INSTANTLY wanted to kill us and tear out our entrails when we side with edelgard is still the BASE Rhea we've seen up until this point in the first chapters, NOT the visibly religious maniac post timeskip in Edelgard's route. She did NOT hesitate a single second to want to kill us, while at this point of the story we were just siding with Edelgard to protect our pupil, not side with her for a war or anything.
Tbh, Zephiel is very selfconfirming. Roy goes to him saying "You are no better, you Hypocrite" and Zephiel just goes... "Yeah actually, that's true and kinda part of the whole idea. I am human, which is why I specifically do not want to rule, I only collect reign to pass it over later".
I mean if we are going to be real the FE7 dragon would fall under sympathetic, from it's perspective, it's just chillin, a portal opens, some guy is like "Hey come over here it's cool" so it does and they he is immediately attacked and killed after coming through the portal. Even if the player didn't do it, Nergal still planned on draining it.
Bruh. How are you gonna do Rhea dirty like that? Are we just going to ignore her people were massacred? Are we just going to ignore her people and her mom's remains were turned into WMDs? Are we just going to ignore the fact Nemesis worked with the people who had her people massacred with HER MOM'S REMAINS?! Are we just going to ignore that Rhea and Edelgard are perfect foils to one another? Are we going to ignore the fact that Rhea only put up the crest system and the 10 elites because politics forced her to? AND SHE GETS HIT WITH THE DRAGON DEMENTIA DEPENDING ON THE ROUTES YOU TAKE. This Rhea slander is wild. Literally every other villain that had a backstory got it told in detail. Rhea? "Her mom died, sucks to be her."
Personally, I would move Nemesis down a tier because just like the Gharnef archetypes, not knowing their motives does not excuse them. I would also move Edelgard and Zelgius up a tier. Zelgius because aside of his interactions with Greil and his family, he has conducted himself honorably on multiple occasions. An honorable person with an inexcusable motive goes into 'somewhat unsympathetic' for me. As for Edelgard, she falls into the 'relatable motive, bad methods' category, which would also be a case of 'somewhat unsympathetic'.
Edelgard also had very little choice. She has a couple years at most left to live thanks to her dual crests and would have been a powerless puppet emperor like her father helplessly watching her kids torment like he did had she not purged her court which would have already grabbed the church’s attention.
Something I do not agree with you is the fact that you state that Rudolph sent Berkut to fight Alm, HOWEVER, Rudolph was always against the idea of letting him enter the battlefield in the first place, and every time Berkut ass got handed by Alm's army, Rudolph always told him to not fight Alm, other than that, the video is fine
Honestly you should have put the Begnion Senators on the list. They are basically responsible for everything bad that happens in Tellius. Thankfully that makes them easy to rank irredemably unsympathetic.
Yeah. They were the reason why Sephiran planned an all put genocide of the entire continent of Tellius by evoking Ashera's Wrath all cause nearly his entire people of Heron Lagus were wiped out over a misunderstanding THEY caused. Yeah. I would understand why Sephiran skipped the Magneto Stage and went full Apocalypse.
I actually disagree on Jedah's placement, even through he's clearly a villain, his motivations aren't simply "haha I'm evil because yes", his devotion to Duma is more out of fear, as you can see from the convo he and Alm & Celica have before the final fight, Jedah would rather keep Duma alive even through he's gone fully mad because he can't imagine a world where mankind can live without the aid of gods, so even through he goes absolutely the wrong way about it, he's just a man that's too scared to live without a higher being watching over him, or at least, that was always my analysis of him.
Yeah he is meant to be the foil to Celica who believes everything will be fine as long as they have Mila's blessing. She eventually accepts that the time of the two gods' is over while Jedah never did.
There are a few more important details that need to be noted about Sombron 1. His world had all of the Fell Dragons attempt to rebel against the Divine Dragons of their time, resulting in his race being wiped out with the exception of Sombron, who was a child at the time. So instead they banished him to the Engage world, where they expected the Divine Dragons there to keep him in check 2. Sombron lived for years with only his Emblem to keep him company. The Emblem spirit abandons Sombron the moment he finds someone willing to talk with him, which Sombron seems to interpret as the Emblem abandoning him for needing to rely on others. Alear theorizes that the Emblem left because they knew Sombron would be fine now that he had a companion. Sombron was not fine. 3. Sombron’s goal is to search for his original Emblem so that his only parental figure could be proud of how strong Sombron had become since he started working on his own, and is completely apathetic towards the Engage world and any others he might end up going through. He essentially tells Alear to buzz off since Sombron wasn’t going to do anything further to Alear’s world anyways
So what you are saying is that Sombron is Toxic Masculinity personified. "Love and Kindness? Ew!! Thats for women and beta males. Nah, it's all about them gains!"
@@AzumarillConGafasBv for sure yeah, committed like every war crime. Its just annoying to see him get dismissed like the Gharnefs when he’s not a “literally exists to be evil” character
I'm glad to see my boy Lyon up in that tier. I played sacred stones for the first time when I was in 7th grade, I think. His story always made me feel so sad. I revisited recently as a 30 year old man and still feel the same way. And the way they do that flashback at the end of the game? I cry, dude.
I actually have a theory as to why dragons degenerate over time. I think what's happening is that dragons are SO powerful that a physical body is actually incapable of containing all that power so then their physical bodies deteriorate over time. However when dragons become spirits or find some way to supress or contain their power such as through the use of a conduit like a dragon stone they seem to be fine. Just a theory though.
Yeah it definitely feels like she went after the wrong target,if anything the church would have helped her destroy the agartgans,the church has issues but there’s a lot of way of going about fixing them ,also she tried to have the other 2 lords killed for no reason
The thing is, she didn’t exactly have the full picture so she got easily put in that situation. Claude was really the only one who pieced the entire puzzle together mostly because he had the most time and incentive to do so.
i never knew how many gharnefs were in this game's history lmao this makes me appreciate the twist of idunn being a victim and zephiel being the main villain even more because without the context that you get at the end of the game she is basically set up to be another gharnef like character
FE6 is very much a creative mirror of the Archanea games. Stuff like how the first chapter is a 90 degrees-turned version of FE1 chapter 1, but ends up playing a lot diffrently in practice. Or how both humans and dragons were major douchebags in both games' backstories, but Archanea focusses more on "The evil dragons! We must stahp them!", while FE6 parodies that direction at first, but ends up being more critical of the human side of the conflict in the end.
As a content creator who has done a vid on this topic before this was a great watch to see a different opinion!!! Fantastic job, love this type of content! Edit: about Gharnef, they actually touch upon the darksphere and him and how it’s darkness took a hold in such a manner that he was even capable of surviving without corporeal form due to the influence of it. Now WHY he always bad is a mystery, but the amplification was proveniente from the sphere, which I think is cool little tidbit of lore.
Personally I would move Nergal down a tier because his means to accomplishing his goals (Dark/Elder Magic) were already known as a corrupting force and he had people trying help him stop. As for Sephiran, I'm fine with where he is but am tempted to move him up a tier, since on top of the Serenes Massacre, he was also witness to the fall of Beorc and Laguz relationships, including species infighting, and the rise of trafficking. Like that's a lot of atrocities to witness in real time.
Nergal and Lyon are like Darth Vader, what makes them the same is they try to accumulate power even if the source of that power is questionable in order to save what they value and love the most but accumulating so much power corrupted them as that what always happens for seeking to be more powerful, they always fall to the dark side, as cliche as it sounds "Absolute power corrupts" just like what Batman said. Such tragic characters makes interesting villains. You know they've fallen evil but you also understand why they did what they have done. Edit: I saw one of the comments suggesting that Valter should also be here too since he too is also a Victim that turned him into look like an irredeemable prick.
yea I say veronica is very sympathetic because she couldnt control her blood until way later. gullveig because well she was controlled and well... for embla... embla became evil due to jealously... freyja I do feel bad for her because she has loyal followers like plumeria. I dont know whats freyja reason why she attacks humans. I think Surtr probally ties in evil when compare to ashnard, the dark wizard new mystery emblem, and begion senator
5:25 In defence of Judah, there is a line in Echoes where Judah gives the impression that they believe it is impossible for humans to not live under a Dragon’s authority. An insane dragon is bad but if you believe no dragon means humans go bye-bye, I can see the logic of sticking with the insane dragon.
I may be making a very far-fetched statement but.. I think there was a reason why Zelgius killed Greil. We know that Zelgius isn't the type of man to unnecessarily kill people and he is also very calculating. If he killed for the sake of competition then he might have killed Skirmir, a Powerful lion laguz and proved his strength. But killing Skirmir would demolish his original intents of peace talk. Like I said very calculating. He also took many abuses from Begnion Senators without retaliating. He even accepted execution for upholding his honour. I am pretty sure when he met Ike he must have realised his potential. In fact, Ike could be the only one to thwart Ashnard's and Sephiran's mad plans. Maybe, in all his disguise, he planned to have Sephiran's plan thwarted. I'm saying this because it would've been impossible for Ike to become this strong if his father wasn't slaughtered..He gave Ike this motivation. I do not deny that he wanted to groom him into his father's equal but he may have done this because he already calculated the possibility that Ike may be the only one who can save world from destruction. Even if Zelgius didn't assist Sephiran, he would've still succeeded into awakening Ashera. But because of how loyal Zelgius is to Sephiran he found an indirect path to foil his plans without actually confronting his master. This could be possible because of how much Zelgius looked up to Greil. And he believed that Ike is the only one who can surpass Greil and be the one to save the world.
Lyon being very sympathetic is not right. Lyon literally goes Sicko mode just because he lost his Father and grado suffers earthquakes all the time(Which is very sad) does not justify throwing a nation's worth of army to their death just to try to resurrect a Dark God that easily 1v1 him. Also playing against Eirika's/Ephraim's psyche instead of trying to talk to them directly is also not OK. Lyon literally started a war over nothing because he wanted all the power and not wanted to win favors with diplomacy. I'll say that Somewhat unsympathetic is the most fitting because Lyon is a sympathetic villain, but his means are pure insanity, especially in the Ephraim Route.
Thales wanted to commit mass genocide upon the children of the goddess as revenge for being forced underground, but considering what the dlc has shown me the underground is kinda neat so hes a dumbass. 2/10 killed by boulder
@@grandarkfang_1482 Ashnard's battle convo with Ike also shows he is not just a badass, but also that he is dedicated to his beliefs. The one where says something along the lines of "Ashnard, I'm going to kill you!" and Ashnard is just like "You kill me? If you are capable of that good! That is the principle on which my ideal world is built!" or something along those lines.
I disagree on Zelgius. He may be a dick for killing Greil and forcing Ike to become the succesor of Greil, but he was also the driving force behind Ike becoming the man he is at the end of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. I also think that he actually cared a lot about Ike because he knew what happened to his mom and Greil's madness. This is important because he could have easily told him about it to have Ike tip over the edge, but instead he decided to taunt him in other ways and guide him by his mere looming presenece. It should also be considered that without Zelgius returning in RD, Ike had a reason to become stronger again which in turn led to him literally killing god. I still don't think that he should be placed any higher than "Somewhat Sympathetic" but I do believe that he is the best "Rival" character they ever made.
Iirc, sombron was exiled and brought over an Emblem Ring, he lost that Emblem Ring after supposedly connecting with some in Elyos, gone emo, built an army and trusted nobody to get emblem ring powers, then travel to other worlds to find said ring. Doesnt change his rating tho lol.
Edlegard is really dumb villain when you think about it. Her ire towards the church is based off a false telling of historical events. Her entire basis for hating the church is completely debunked by the revelations in Verdant Wind. It also makes no sense for her to target the church, while she cooperates with the people who were actually behind her suffering. It's not even like she doesn't know the Agarthans did it. She just chooses to look past it, and attack the church instead.
The church actively enables the classism by telling their false history of the crests. And again, the Agarthans were useful to her. She had to play along with them until she could backstab them. We see clearly in 3 Hopes what happens when she doesn't.
Villains that have greater motivations than evil for sake of evil are great, but they're also really hard to do, which is how Edelgard falls flat when she is a self-made hipocrite by doing awful, basically iredeemable crimes to justify her means, which instead of seeing sympathetic, just looks pathetic.
@@4wheal All of the students you fight challenge her on her stance. Dimitri challenges her. Dimitri even has a private meeting with her during his route. Claude also challenges her.
@@goroadachi9489 No, they dont they become yes men who go along with whatever she says the few that might raise a concern either give up or have to alter their beliefs to fit what Edelgard wants. That's because the writers know Edelgard can't stand as a character if people point out the joles in her logic. The Dimitri one in AM is one i will give you, and it's probably the best writer Edelgard is as a character in the game.
@@4wheal Dimitri literally has a private meeting with Edelgard herself, and challenges her on her ideals. Even the students who join you do it for a specific reason, not tied to Edelgard’s beliefs.
Lyon is an interesting case. in one route. he is completely taken over by the demon king. in the other. he let the demon king corrupt him but stayed in control. Making him a bit harder to judge. Also. it was not just him losing his dad but he also found out most of Grado would be destroyed by natural disaster if he didn't do anything. Berkut... he truly was tossed under the bus by his uncle and pretty much just lost his mind in the end when he thought Rinea turned against him. Does not excuse him killing Rinea but still. As for Nergal. He left his kids behind and instructed them to use the dragons gate if he did not come back in time from saving his wife. Needless to say. he failed to save his wife and came back too late for his kids. Later. after meeting Athos and learning how to steal quintessence from knowledge in Arcadia to save him kids. He just went too far and was struck down and banished. Soon after. dark magic completely corrupted him. One can argue how much was his own doing and how much was the dark magic. Especially his actions in Arcadia. maybe Eremiya from FE12 and Raydrik from FE5 should have been on the list too..
Eremiya is kinda unratable for all intends and purposes. Like, do we rate the original Eremiya or the one we fight in the story? One is the sweetest woman ever but got overwritten by brainwashing only to be briefly restored later to be taunted and the other may as well be an AI programmed to only know to be horrible because she is a brainwashing-induced rewrite by Gharnef. There is really no meaningful conversation to be had, one version of her is in very sympathetic by default and the other in irredeemably unsympathetic by default, and neither is anyone's fault except the evil wizard who is so unsympathetic that he needs a new tier at this point.
Was he really in control though? It's very possible that he was being manipulated in Ephram's route, in other words he was basically a puppet to the Demon King and doing his bidding while believing that he wasn't. Imagine not truly being in control of your own actions while thinking that you are, the thought of that is horrifying.
@@pandabanaan9208 That would be cool. If they didn't pull a "nuh uh, he is not in control actually" at the 11th hour. Ephraim mode straught up does not know what to say, so it says muddied gibberish. Eirika's story is pretty stereotypical, but playing it straight allowed for them to craft something of quality. Being "unique" does not mean being good, it's like the plottwist idea of "You thought I was good? Nah, trolled" that is getting deployed way too much in recent years.
@@pandabanaan9208 One could also pitch for why stuff like Fates isn't bad in this exact way. "It doesn't go along with established writing, so it's fresh and therefore good." And well, Morva and even the Demon King himself very much claim that Lyon was never in control. Lyon's actions also make no sense for anyone who isn't either completely out of free will, unless they are completely mad. "I want to become the demon king so I have the power to fix the world. But I won't fix the world, because that means I will turn evil. I want you to kill me when I turn, which means that I won't have time to do anything of value, so the entire thing is a bad idea". Like, that is an actual task he gives Ephraim, to stop him before he can do anything, even to it logically does not track in the slightest.
Man, after I've met Edelgard for the first time, she was destined to fit the dictator role. One that will do anything to achieve their goal, even teaming up with people who fucked you up. She 100% make go "But whyyyyy?!?!"
Sombron doesn't care about the world. He just wants to find his friend. Still an irredeemable scumbag but he is specifically not on a world ending plot. He would've been happy to ditch the main character's world after he fucked it up in order to leave.
I'm pretty sure it's not the case, but the Three Houses part feels like made by someone who either only played AM and read the other stories online or played them but ignored most of it. I feel like this because there's a clear lack of information about the things we learn in VW and SS. Also it's missing an important part from CF. -Nemesis: So, he killed an entire race to steal their power and reign over the world. Unless you're the kind of person who just betrays and backstabs people to climb in power, there's no way you can sympathise with him. He is 100% irredimably unsimpathetic. -Rhea: Killed the guy that killed her entire race (you said her mother, but, even though it is true, it's not the full picture). Then controlled the world to try to find a way to revive her mother. She is not a perfect ruler or anything and sure did experiments to revive her mother, but in her route you realise the only reason she implanted Rhea's heart in Byleth was because it was the only way to save her, and that the info you got was partially distorted to make her look worse. Regardless, she goes in either of the mid tiers, but the reasoning clearly lacked the full info, so maybe the placement would have gone 1 tier up. -Edelgard: I'm not gonna say edelgard is not evil, she is. Even in CF, in which she redeems herself a bit by reducing her relations with TWSITD and eventually eliminating them. Either way, CF story is of no consecuence as we're talking about antagonist Edelgard. What I can't understand is how Arvis who did the exact same as her are a tier above and she isn't. They both fith the exact same "the end justifies the means" model. Arvis redeems himself after everything he achieved breaks down. Edelgard is suposed to be a good ruler when she wins the war. They're basically the same villain in slightly different circumstance and they are judged completely different. In case of "Edelgard killed Dimitri's parent's" argument, feel free to check what Arvis does at the end of chapter 5. -Dimitri: He is one of the the main antagonists of CF, and should appear in the video. In any case, he would be in the very sympathetic category, he's not exactly perfectly nice, but he's not done any real evil beside wanting revenge for his parents' deaths.
I agree with Arvis' placement. Some people are more sympathetic to him because later in life he learned the terrible mistakes he made, somewhat redeeming himself. But he was very much unsympathetic in his goals when he became Emperor where he was just a glorious bastard. Because we got to see him learn from his mistakes it makes him more sympathetic and frankly pulls him out of irredeemably sympathetical. His bsckstory isn't enough to make him more sympathetic, its actually his development after the fact. Zephiel is somewhat the opposite. He never redeems himself, we can just understand how he got to that point.
Lol @ Edelgard. I don't like her, I think her plan is absolutely terrible and her means of doing so are even worse. That said even I would put her in "Somewhat Unsympathetic" lol. I can at least understand she became completely broken and is being manipulated by the true villains. Nemesis I think does fall into Irredeemable. What little we know of him proves he is.
I'm surprised Raydrik didn't make the cut. I know there's a lot I'm missing since I only brushed on a playthrough of Thracia, but being the twofold traitor would easily make him an unsympathetic character, being an opportunist with little regard for consequences.
16:14 i think he is somewhat sympathetic. He was branded and was alone as a person. He probably defines himself in his ability to fight because he trusts nothing else. It happens to men who lost faith and trust in all others and thus substitute and cope by placing that trust and faith in non-human things... Things like culture (fandoms, groups, basically shared values based on an abstract principle or idea). His culture is that of battle and he devotes himself completely in it.
I think Jedah should go in the somewhat unsympathetic tier; his motivation is his misguided belief that if Duma goes mad, Rigel is completely screwed (very similar to how celica views the disappearance of Mila).
And how is Medeus more sympathetic than Rhea, for that matter?? Rhea's not trying to start a war to subjugate or wipe out humanity, she's trying to prevent a war if anything. And she's a LOT more open to seeing reason than Medeus is.
@@hanzou1238 She killed people who made at least three attempts on her life and thought their position as priests would protect them from retribution. Sending Christophe (1), Lord Lonato's militia (2), Holy Mausoleum raid (3). To her it's not just to behead Kostas, a low-level thug, but spare someone who raised an army to kill her people. She sees no value in arbitrary titles when it comes to murder and banditry.
@@hanzou1238 Because you sided with the person who started a war of conquest against her and the rest of the continent in that route- and note that that's at the endgame, after 5 years of war, I believe. Marth isn't trying to conquer the world for the "greater good". Also, that's only for the CF. In the other routes, Rhea's way less bloodthirsty and far more willing to own up to her failings and give up power. Medeus never does that.
for nergal i'd say very sympathetic because its got to be the dark magic's fault, he doesn't even remember his children, only his original goal of opening the gate, though the reason is forgotten and the why's, only Athos's friend at the game seemed to have mastered dark magic but became a mirror to any who are in front of him, he remained good and even helped revive Ninian saying he'll probably be dead soon too, reviving Ninian with no negative side effects probably took everything out of him, when people love too much and mess with the dark arts ya kinda can lose your mind as if possessed
I remember listening to a video exploring Nergal's backstory and it was pointed out that Nergal and Brammimond are very good foils of each other. Both dark magic users, both lost themselves in that pursue. But Nergal kept his ego while everything else around him deteriorated, while Brammimond lost most of himself but kept somehow kept his sense of right and wrong. To put the nail int he coffin, Nergal never achieved his goal of reviving someone while Brammimond seemingly did at the cost of the rest of his life. It seems that truly mastering Dark magic means losing yourself, but Brammimond was the only one you could call a true master in the end.
@@Raharu95 I say playing FE7 makes you feel much more out of playing FE6, though not canon i didn't know at the time I got FE8 first then 7 then 6 on Emu so felt more from Hector passing and raising Lilina to wreck Bern and for Sue as well since I assumed she was Lyn's daughter and getting Athos's and Brammimond's tomes too
@@Raharu95 IMO, the primary difference between the two is that Nergal didn't accomplish his goal. While we don't know a ton about Bramimond, he's one of the Eight legends, so his goal in mastering the Arts may have been to defend humanity against the dragons. Having accomplished that, he turned to simply defending his legendary tome, and the Seals on the other's tombs. Nergal doesn't strike me as being particularly driven by ego, or even possessing much ego. He doesn't really ever act particularly evil; he kills quickly for the purpose of gathering quintessence, and he doesn't ever get particularly nasty, just cold and driven. He is almost single-mindedly driven to resurrect/recreate his wife. I think the reason he tries to open the gate is his old connection to the dragons, and his hunt for quintessence, of which he would need a massive quantity in order to create and sustain a draconic morph. Also, I think Aenir was like, hella dead by the time he found her (assuming he did), whereas Ninian was more of in-the-process of dying when Bramimond revives her. So I'm not sure actual resurrection is a possibility in Elibe (which is also typical for fantasy settings, usually necromancy is the closest it gets). Basically, I think Nergal wasn't quite entirely soulless due to his extremely powerful grip on his goal, while Bramimond was which results in him literally mirroring whomever he is interacting with. To summarize, neither really exhibited much moral agency, which could be attributed to their mastery of the dark arts.
@@avaliantsoul5408 nergal has never been shown to want to resurrect aenir. he gathered quintessence to open the dragons gate, not the other way around. specifically, he wanted to gather quintessence and open the dragons gate in order to reunite with his kids, but too much dabbling in dark magic made him forget why he wanted to open the dragons gate in the first place. so his insane, addled mind wants to do it to release the dragons and control them to conquer elibe
I would also say that Thales and Nemesis are irredeemably unsympathetic because Thales sends Nemesis with the 10 Elites to slaughter the Nabateans in the canyon of Zanado. Nemesis and the 10 Elites then drank the blood of the Nabateans they killed, and the Agarthans fashioned their bones into weapons. They drove Rhea to madness and to commit the horrific acts that she does. It's also Thales that forced Edelgard into becoming what she is. As much as Edelgard chose to do a lot of horrible things in 3H, Thales was the puppetmaster. I realized this whenever Edelgard talks about Rhea and the Nabateans in Crimson Flower - I can't tell if it's her talking or some form of Agarthan mental conditioning.
It’s moreso that Edelgard only knows so much, and has a harder time getting access to the information that Claude was able to get his hands on. Even Hubert was barely able to get part of the puzzle. That combined with the fact that she had to keep the support of the soldiers, puts her in a bad spot.
Here's the thing. Some speculate that the emblem Sombron lost is Sommie, since Sommie appears on an emblem pedestal. If true, then all of his actions are understandable and 100% justifiable. Who wouldn't wage war against the world if that little guy left your side without notice.
Nergal is by far one of the best Antagonists they ever made. His backstory being locked behind multiple playthroughs, secrets, and gaidens was a great choice.
One of the biggest problems Modern Fire emblem has with it's villains is that they are either completely irredeemably evil. Or they are supposed to be sympathetic and they inform us of why they are evil...but we simply don't see enough of it. We never get a frame of reference. I want to see more villains like Duma, Nergal and Arvis. And less villains like Sombron and TWSD.
The weird part is that they try to give Thales a frame of reference, like 10 seconds before Azure Gleam is over. The idea they went with could have even gone somewhere, if it didn't come 2 whole games too late(and there wasn't dialogue saying even other members of TWSD are iffy about him), because it actually fits prior lore.
I think for me, one of the most “compelling” parts of Nergal is how hard you, the player, need to work to unearth his story. The conditions on finding his plot are so finite…so almost impossible to uncover without a guide…that it makes me more sympathetic. For some reason. Regardless, I think he’s well placed here.
Mostly agree, but for Three Houses I would say Nemesis should Iredeemable unsymphatetic. Sure we don't know much about his background but he did butchered Sothis and probably Nabateans too. I think we know barely enough. In other hand I would put Rhea higher. Regardless whether you believe she's wrong and had to go or not, her trying resuscitate Sothis in Byleth is only thing (outside of going nuts on the end of CF) that she did straightforwardly evil (and even there is a bit of wiggle room) and she didn't even succeed there. I think she did too much of good both in story and in across the hundreds years of her life to be considered unsymphatic.
I’m sorry but placing black knight, who spends his entire life as a tool of those taking advantage of his desire to belong, who is a fundamentally broken man who has been chewed up and spit out by society, who literally fought for 3 masters at the same time and still did not see himself as worthy of his success because he was not able to best his teacher (and he was right, Gawain would’ve dogwalked him if he hadn’t crippled himself) is SO much more sympathetic than Sephiran, and saying “I get it, humans kinda suck” is a lame answer. Zelgius is no dipherent in morality than zephiel, but almost all of his actions are at the whim of others
to be fair on rudolf's seemingly insane plan of start a war that'll make everyone hate him but love his hero son, his goal was to kill duma and mila, who while mentally unstable, were still beloved by their people, and killing mila specifically would've caused a war no matter what. plus for the most part it was the duma faithful and chansolar desaix who were doing most of the evil stuff. rudolf still enabled that by starting the war, but with how he acted throughout that war, it's clear he didn't want a war, he just couldn't find an alternative.
Tbh, that is kind of an issue with Echoes imo, it does not really give a compelling reason why Rudolf just got rid of Mila first. While both went mad, it always seemed like it hit Duma much worse and he should have been the priority.
@@lpfan4491 that is not true at all, there's a pretty simple reason why: duma only gave rudolf the falchion so he could kill mila, so it was either kill mila first or not kill either of them at all. but even without considering that, there's still a pretty obvious reason why he didn't go straight for duma's head, as his own country would immediately turn against him, likely meaning he wouldn't even have an army to go kill duma at all. considering like half of all the enemies in the game are duma faithful i wouldn't be surprised if they made up a lot of rudolf's army, but even the ones who hadn't literally sold him their souls would still consider him their god, and they wouldn't want him dead, especially since it'd make their already baren land even worse. and this is all assuming he could've killed duma at all. duma was described as war god, having a might makes right philosophy, and it took the combined efforts of two lords and their armies to finally take him down. on the other hand, mila was a god of indulgence, and like her country, likely got too comfortable with that lifestyle, and her strength easily could've atrophied enough that rudolf could defeat her (and even then, he couldn't even kill her as she simply sealed herself and falchion away)
@@lpfan4491 "hey, soldiers! let us go kill our god!" i doubt that plan would be possible any time. unless he was able to kill duma singlehandedly, he had to get creative
It may not be cannon from the games but the fe4 manga by osawa shines so much more light on the villains and makes them all much better characters especialy Travant. If anyone has time to spare I highly recommend it since it recently finnished translating
Honestly I agree with a lot of this list with most things being pretty minor, but the main differences for me are that I would put Sephiran up a tier as watching the genocide of your people is something that I could easily see why you’d want the world to end and while it isn’t excusable, especially since he can join you kind of, I think he at least deserves some sympathy. Then for Nemesis, I don’t know if I made this up or what, but I always assumed that he did what he did in response to oppression from the children of the goddess and the depiction we see is really just the church doing it’s thing, but I could be wrong. Then the big one for me is Edelgard. Not because what she did was right or made even a bit of sense siding with those who slither, but because you need to keep in mind she did this all when she was a child. She saw pretty much all of her family wiped out and was tortured herself and, being that she’s a child, only saw one way out which was to side with the smaller force that she thought she could take out afterwards. Well thought out? No. But I think she deserves at least some sympathy considering her situation.
⏰Timestamps⏰
00:00 Intro
00:45 Medeus
02:29 Gharnef
03:26 Duma
04:25 Rudolf
05:14 Jedah
05:25 Hardin
06:10 Arvis
07:37 Manfroy
08:05 Julius
08:26 Veld
08:46 Zephiel
09:57 Idunn
10:37 Nergal
12:58 Lyon
13:58 Ike
15:03 Zelgius
16:19 Sephiran
17:07 Validar
17:31 Grima
17:45 Gangrel
18:07 Walhart
18:36 Anankos
19:12 Berkut
20:33 Nemesis
21:07 Rhea
21:37 Thales
21:43 Edelgard
22:33 Sombron
23:12 Outro
you accidentally replaced ashnard with ike in the timestamp
Ike the villain D:
@@nessdbest8708 I hope Mangs will do one for that game too.
Nemesis not being in the Irredeemably Unsympathetic Tier is surprising. You know, because of committing genocide and using the victims bones as weapons. ..
where's raydrik
I would've personally just split "Very Sympathetic" into "Victim" and "Dragon Dementia Sucks"
I think Rhea would fit into both category: victim of having her race genocided, and eventually goubg mad
Anankos did nothing wrong and is easily the most sympathetic of them all, i too would go insane if i was forced to hear azuras singing for all of eternity.
Anankos not only he bacame Mad but split his Spirit apart and recruit Heroes from another time to help Corrin finish him. Also he killed his best friend. "Why I am the One to surfer, why I am the One left to die?"
Definitely, although Anankos made a big 🤡 mistake with not taking off with his buddies when they left, but I don't remember what the reason was for Anankos staying
I think he got killed but I can't entirely remember either@@The_B_Button
Ah yes my favorite FE antagonist, Ike
Nah, biggest antagonist in FE is definitely RNG
I still love making (almost but not really) jokes about how Ike is just an anti-human racist who blames humans for being racist but is nice to Soren and Laguz when they're racist. I guess it's okay to be racist when they're your friends/you wish you had claws like them????
Also the fact that at the end of FE10 he just leaves everyone and everything, including his own sister, who begged him not to leave her like their father did when he was killed. Absolute scumbag who only cares about the people he wants to make out with, and I'd definitely put him in an antagonist spot just to make people REEEEEEE.
I thought I was stumbling into some DEEP lore about Ashnard being an alternate-timeline Ike or something when I saw that in the chapter list 😅
@@lsrrr3857 Stupid RNG always screwing our tactics, our plans, always there to watch over and to troll us, curse you bad RNG.
@@charlettmoon2693 To be fair, the Laguz kinda had a point, so Ike siding with them makes sense. And from my knowledge, they were racist to the scumbags that led Begnion. The thing about him leaving though...... Yeah that was an oversight by the writers for sure.
Calling Walhart “Walmart” will never not be funny.
Agreed
My favorite antagonist is the pirate captain guy in FE7 that escorts you to the dread isle, because i spent a long fucking time trying to beat him only to find out it gives you a game over if you do.
In my defense, he stated he likes a good fight. He's just a sore loser who dies when he's killed.
Fargus.
"He's just a sore loser who dies when he's killed" should not have cracked me up as much as it did
@@calzone7961 same here🤣
Shirou Emiya:People DIE when they are killed!!!!
Found the mooncalf
The most unsympathetic antagonist in the FE franchise is the fan base. God forbid for you to say anything good, or bad, about any game in the series
The Megaten Fandom:You poor baby.
It's more of a madness than an antagonist, IMO -it has no real goals or objectives, just a mass of heads reeling
@@ZX-Gearthose guys are literally split into two factions: Persona Fans and Everything Else. And the latter has its own subdivisions.
The only reason Lyon lost his soul is because he was envious and horny. 100% most relatable antagonist in the series
Erika simps will definitely relate
Dude also had huge shoes to fill with his dad dying and his empire left to him added with him and his low self-esteem issues. So yeah. Can relate.
so basically, if grado had a therapist then the plot of sacred stones would never have happened
@@Underworlder5 or if lyon didnt try to revive his own dad with dark stone lol
I’m convinced that therapists can’t even help people irl so FE antagonists are doomed
Self proclaimed #1 Jugdral enjoyer doesn't even mention Raydrik and Travant smh
the scence when travant give his son the gungir bc he knew a new ruler could chose a new path and he is going to face leif and die is pure cinema
They stank
But at least someone remembered them right Veld???
I’m actually one of the few people who has a soft spot for Rhea. Sure, her hoping Byleth would become the key in getting her mother back is questionable, but regarding her placing Sothis’s crest stone in Byleth as a baby, what other option did she have? Had she not done that, Byleth would’ve died right then and there. Really, her bigger blunder there was simply not being more upfront with Jeralt about what happened. Obviously telling him the full truth would involve divulging knowledge tying to the Nabateans, which she naturally doesn’t wanna risk. But even simply telling him she had to use a forgotten ritual or something like that at Sitri’s behest, or something along those lines, that would’ve likely been the wiser course of action than just dismissing any notion something happened altogether.
This and the fact that she survived the genocide of her own people
And let’s not also gloss over the face she’s basically Jesus to Sothis’ God. Like Sothis was a LITERAL GOD on earth. She’s not just trying to bring back mommy, she’s trying to resurrect an actual creation diety who shapes their world.
This isn’t an Ulrick brothers situation this is a god is dead, we have killed him, how do we get him back situation.
so fire emblem is about defeating old people with dementia
Old people are scary when they go off their meds.
how many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man the series
My favorite comment thread in this video, yes this is the essense of fire emblem. Senile boomer with all their accumulated wealth takes arms against the youngins.
call back to calling nemesis a boomer. This still cracks me up.
Marth hits the griddy, causing Medeus to die of cringe
Sombron: His ring! His precious power ring! Gone forever!!!
RHEEEEE!!!
MYYYYY PRRRREEEEECIOUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
well evil doofenshmirtz lost his toy train
@@cladius3216played for comedy not tragedy
That's why engage sucked and never do so well, it's forgotten compared to 3H. I'm an Engage hater and stand by it proudly
Until we got his motivation I thought he was a good villain 😅
Mangs when talking about Edelgard: Oh my, I feel like I could probably do an entire video on her
EDELGARD SPOTLIGHT WHEN???
IIRC she was supposed to be the first TH character to get one…
It's been a lot of time since one. I think livestreams are just more profitable right now.
Honestly Idk if I want an Edelgard video from the TH-camr who placed her into the entirely unsympathetic category LMAO
@@CritAlps fair enough lol, I thought she was gonna be next tier up because he put the genocidal Zephiel up there
Why did Ashnard do it?
Because why not
And he is super buff
Truly compelling villain i love him
Ashnard is the evil version of the Gigachad.
Not to mention he had a child with a manakete to potentially create a strong human-dragon hybrid, then instead uses the child as blackmail to force another manakete to be his mount.
Truly hardcore!
@@grandarkfang_1482All gigachads are evil
@@grandarkfang_1482 Negachad
sometimes I just mix Ashnard and Senator Armstrong. I dunno why, but they have a similar vibe in my head.
Zephiel may be evil, but you've got to appreciate his commitment. When he wants so wipe out humanity, he is included. When he is defeated, he stalls so that Idunn can continue the genocide.
Zephiel is just great. A hack playing as Zephiel would be also glorious.
Fire emblem 7 isn't perfect story wise by any means, but one of the things I feel they got right was Nergal. He was such an interesting villain.
Agree!
all of the budget for FE7's story went to nergal and the black fang's backstory and as a result the rest was the tragedy we got XD
I always liked the story of Berkut because it's like a Shakespearian-style tragedy of a prince who gradually loses his grandeur and turns self-destructive trying to claw it back. Very edgy, very interesting.
Berkut was how I got to know of Ian Sinclair.
Berkut is so gloriously beautiful! He was born with everything, but he lost everything to who he thought he was a mere peasant... but resulted to be a king instead xD. Fernand is also a great one ^^.
Sombron is the most sympathetic villain ever guys!!!! He brainwashed his children and use them as soldier in a war to conquer the world because when he was a childeren some guy has stolen his candy and I don't really know actually but come on he gave us a 1 our monologue about his backstory out of nowere how can I don't sympathise with him. I was crying when I learn that he lost his best friend because somthing and then some other thing and then Kaga emblem. Truly the moment of my life
Brainwashing children to meet with Kaga seems fitting, truly the best villain in all of FE.
underrated comment lol.
What peak fiction does to an mf:
Sombrom indeed is a villain from a Fire Emblem game
Sombron reminds me of fire emblem new mystery emblem where that dark wizard brainwashes that female bishop therefore brainwash clarrise
On the topic of bosses, I would say King Garon of Nohr. If I recall, he was originally a kind man and when it was revealed that an evil dragon was attempting to destroy Nohr and Hoshido, he tried to make an alliance with Hoshido but he ended up getting controlled and starting a war with Hoshido anyways.
Yeah like if that was something we got to see or was properly explained like have people talk about what he was like in the past it would make Norh a lot less obviously evil since then we would actually have to wonder if Garon is doing what he does for a good reason as a kind man who knows when to harden his heart for the good of his people would look like a monster to Hosido but to Norh a tragic king who is only doing what he has to
@@TrueBladeSoulAgreed. It was sadly only touched upon, based on memories of a few others, but only that, because Fates’s writers said F it... If it was properly explained/delved into, I can see him being much higher on the list.
@@mihaimercenarul7467 something like that could have worked when he was dying but remember he was basically dead at this point only being animated and controlled by Anankos
I mean, we never see that side of him, we just see Garon commiting war crimes and trying to kill everything that breathes
well u cant really blame the dragon when humans are the one who attacked him just because he couldnt control his powers lmao
For Rhea she also witnessed the genocide of her people too and in all honesty fodlan was doing pretty okay in the1k years she was in power
I'd call Conquest Garon, Hans and Iago very sympathetic because they constantly make me crack up while reading Fates story which is a lot more than I can say about almost any other villain.
Hans is Buggi if Buggi had 0 charm and was 100% Based
Hans is so based he kills Lillith twice and commits war crimes on a daily basis
I'd argue Hans is irredeemably unsympathetic for me, since we flat out know he was a criminal in his past who was incarcerated for his crimes, and even after being given a second chance in joining the military, he never quit being a criminal and upgraded to war crimes instead, as well as disobeying his superiors on the regular. He really only gets away with it because Garon was already gone by then, replaced by the puppet Anankos put in his place, but the old Garon we hear about would've definitely put a stop to him very fast.
Iago, on the other hand, comes across as somewhat unsympathetic to me. He really seems like someone who was super loyal to Garon and let that loyalty blind him to the point that, once Garon was replaced by Anankos' puppet, he had no problems continuing to do what Garon asked, even as those demands became cruel and evil. So naturally, he'd plan to ruin Corrin's day if Garon asked, and was correct (from his viewpoint of Garon still being there even though we know Garon was gone) to lash out against the siblings for their apparent betrayal.
We never got to see the real King Garon. From what we know of him through supports and other such things, it seems that he would perhaps be a more sympathetic figure. A gentle father who just could not bring himself to leave all the women he loved, inadvertently, causing the death of a lot of them. I wonder when he died exactly? That would be interesting to figure out, since he is clearly a puppet by the time we first meet him in Fates.
I would put Rhea and Edelgard in the "Somewhat Sympathetic" tier, simply because both of them have the capacity for both love and compassion, but they take extreme actions they feel they must in order to preserve the world.
Depending on the path and ending, both Rhea and Edelgard are perfectly willing to step down and leave the future of the world in someone elses hands. Rhea leaves the church to Byleth, and Edelgard honors her own system, and actually steps down as emperor for someone more "worthy" in some cases. It's of course very dependent on what path you look at, but even at their worst, i would say that Rhea would be the one who should be lowest on the list.
So the fact that they can both show remorse, loyalty, honor and even love towards Byleth and others, make it seem unfair to paint them as irredeemable or unsympathetic...
Yes, someone who know what they are saying.
I would like to add some context for Rudolph and Rhea.
Rudolph rules a nation that is lacking in arable land. Rigel was suffering famine so he went to the sister kingdom of Zofia. King Zofia said " Ha! No" and continued to party and have unprotected sex with random women. Celica and her brother are his only surviving bastard children. Rudolph responded by finding the Falchion, killing Mila, then killing Zofia and his entire family. Rigel is raiding Zofia for resources.
Rhea is very much like Medeus in that her people were massacred by Nemesis and his Elite. A lot of her more troubling actions make more sense with the understanding that her entire culture and race were destroyed, and she now has to live with the descendants of her oppressors. The same descendants that swing around the mutilated corpses of her kin and kill each other in droves. Edelgard additionally forces her out of her ancestral land in every route of Three houses.
To be fair Rhea got consent before she put Sothis into Byleth.
@pandabanaan9208 They were homunculi they were never human to begin with. Rhea created artificial humans/Nabateans and then adopted and raised as her own children. There wasn't any human experimentation.
@@pandabanaan9208 You mean the hominculi she created for one specific purpose? Something like that isn’t exactly immoral considering that she makes them herself.
You consent.
She consents.
Isn't there someone you forgot to ask?
Sothis.jpg
@pandabanaan9208 When you get down to it Rhea creates artificial to revive her mother, but the life she creates is a new life, yeah she's disappointed but he reaction to that new life is to adopt it as far as her child and have it live out it's natural lifespan in such a way that people can't even tell the difference between her humunculous children and a regular human. That's why she's only made 12 in 1000 years. Is it messed up that she creates artificial life? Yes, but that's where it ends.
It also needs to be considered what she does during the game. She kills anyone who doesn't agree with her and is willing to harm innocent civilians to stop her enemies as seen in the endgame of CF.
Wow a tier list that actually managed to hold my attention throughout the whole thing, congrats. For me personally I like Ashnard a lot. I think if they had fleshed him out a little more to show a man who longed to set things right and slowly became what we see in the games from all his bloodshed he could have been one of the greatest villains in the series. Anankos is peak, his reasonings and machinations will be revealed when he returns in Rev 2
Ashnard is Underrated and the Blood Contract ruined him. If the Blood contract did not exist, he would have been a much better villain
@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast if the blood contract did not exist tellius might actually have the good story everyone claims it has
@@Speedwinghere Most people generally do not claim FE10 to have a good story, even with localization or extended script-changes.
It was always about FE9 and the Blood Pact is very much something backwards-extended into the prior plot by the sequel.
@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast dude if blood contract didnt exist. silver hair maiden we wouldnt fight her. think of without brain chips for clones. it would ahd changed very different
I just wanna say the headcanon of Sombron being an Elitist and the emblem he was trying to find was Kaga makes him S tier (?)
I would argue Anankos does get some credit for taking steps to try and prepare the world to kill him after he goes mad, so that's a step above someone like Duma. Of course, there are no steps to go above, so he's in the right spot on the tier list, but just wanted to point that up.
I think you put nemesis a bit too high. He and a group of his buddies wiped out all but a handful of people by raiding them in the night while they slept. That and they yoinked the bodies literally turning them into weapons and drinking their blood to roid up. Plus if im remembering right three houses implies that the sacred weapons are kind of alive? (Pls correct me if im wrong on that)
They kinda are
Grima has some lore explored in post game shadows of valentia...and yes, fire emblem heroes. He basically hates humans because his creator betrayed him because forneus feared grimas power and sealed him away. Nothing spectacular but its something.
Bro really just had to prove him right didn't he.
who plays Heroes
@@AzumarillConGafasBv masochists and people who like reading.
Quick thing to note about Nemesis, Edelgard and Seiros.
Nemesis is given a backstory. He is a thief who killed Rhea's mother Sothis due to the prodding of TWSITD, and then committed genocide on all the Nabateans (rhea's people), feeding their blood to his elite commanders and using their bones as weapons. So yes, he is entirely unsympathetic. Fun villain, though.
Rhea's backstory is that her whole race, who just wanted to help humans, was wiped out thanks to Nemesis, with the exceptions of Seteth and Flayn. In addition to this, the reason why she put Sothis's heart in Byleth is because Byleth's mother Sitri was on the verge of death and this was the only way of saving his/her life. Still does some messed up things, mainly in the last chapter of crimson flower, and it is kind of messed up that she never explained this to Jerald, but I would still bump her up a tier, maybe even two if you really want to push it.
I don't have much to disagree with on Edelgard, just wanted to add that all she really had to do if she wanted to change the system was talk to Dimitri and Claude, both of whom she got along with, and the gaslighting done in Crimson flower significantly hurt my love for the game. She has one of the most sympathetic backstories, but due to her actions, yeah, she still goes in the bottom tier.
So to summarize, Rhea should have been in somewhat sympathetic while Nemesis and Edelgard move to/stay in Entirely Unsympathetic.
Calling irredimable to Rhea or Edelgard while simpathysing with other villais on the franchise is ridiculous
Oh yeah because I’m sure if Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude talked then the church, which is the most powerful faction on the continent, would just roll over. Also what makes you think Claude and Dimitri would agree with her, chances are if she reveals who she is it ends the same way for Dimitri since he still thinks that somehow Edelgard killed his family, so at best she has the leister alliance on her side but even then I reckon Claude would be way more likely to side with the church as he does before.
Also are you really saying that Crimson Flower is trying to “gaslight” you into finding Edelgard sympathetic, where does it gaslight you exactly?
@@sonofpears4691 First of all Church is NOWHERE near being "most powerfull faction". They don't even have conscripts nor it's united. Second when Empire dunked on their local branch Church, it did just rolled over. Rhea has zero influence in Empire ever since. Third I do agree that CF did not try gaslight anyone into finding Edelgard symphatetic. She is straighforwardly villain even in her own route and I think game was quite honest honest about it (well maybe except changing characterisation of such characters as Ferdinand, Caspar or Dorothea... I guess that counts?).
Nemesis I think is possibly a bit sympathetic because if I remember correctly, he was manipulated by TWSITD, and while it is unclear how good of rulers the Nabateans were, we know that they used to govern each part of Fodlan, and he genuinely was just trying to free humanity from them. Still irredeemable though since the Nabateans probably weren’t bad beings and he still committed genocide.
I agree with everything you said about Rhea, and I’d also add to that because as if Nemesis killing her kind wasn’t enough, she then had to paint the man who killed, and stole the bones of her family as a hero for the sake of not causing conflict with humanity since since Nemesis was thought to be freeing humanity from draconic creatures, and despite all that humanity has done to her, she still wants the world to be a better place for them as well (probably another reason she wants to bring Sothis back since Sothis would be able to lead the world better than she can, and not needing the corrupt crests system to keep things stable).
For Edelgard, I kind of disagree with that. We’ve seen what happens when Edelgard tried to trust Claude. He potentially betrays her, comes off as sneaky and as someone whose smile doesn’t match his eyes as Byleth puts it, and it isn’t until Claude’s been at the officers academy for a while hanging with the students, and Byleth that he becomes a better person (not that he wasn’t good before, but he wasn’t completely innocent and to be trusted fully). Also, there is the fact that Edelgard would want everything to be ruled by her as she feels she needs to maintain order, while Claude would also want to rule over all for similar reasons. Also, Edelgard couldn’t trust Dimitri either because while he doesn’t seem to like everything the church does, he’s too loyal to the church and it would be hard for Edelgard to pursue him especially since Dimitri couldn’t be kind yet at the time, and Edelgard already having to work with TWSITD before the game starts. Also, there is no telling how much surveillance TWSITD have over Edelgard because we know that Thales can just show up and either brainwash Edelgard, or turn her into her Hegemon form. I think she deserves at least somewhat sympathetic.
I hope my boy lyon is rated highly
21:10 nemesis, I believe, was established either in the DLC or the GW route, was supposedly just some bandit guy that happened to work well as a figurehead for the Agarthans to prop up as their pawn of revenge against the Nabataeans. So he’s probably just a pawn doing it for power, but idk.
Thales speaks of his people having been driven underground by Rhea's people in the past, but then he also just attacks everyone in sight and became a 'I shall conquer the surface world!' villain, even abducting children to replace them with shapeshifters.
I believe it's also implied that it was his people that murdered Sothis and most of her children, then made their bones into The Heroes' Relics. Hell, the Sword of the Creator is Sothis' own spine and the Crest Stone is her actual heart, which he then gave to a powerful Thief King called Nemesis to go kill her daughter Rhea with!
I understand his motivation but his evil is way past redemption.
Nemesis then also had the nickname King of Thieves besides King of Liberation, so he was already evil before he became the warlord killed by Seiros/Rhea, also irredeemable.
In the DLC a Slither book reveals that the reason for his beef with the Nabateans is because the Slithers want to perform genocide in all surface dwellers (they had already wiped out several civilizations by them) and Sothis (being a goddess of life) took offense to that.
@@brightlight8852 Daaaaaayum. Okay, mega-deserved to be driven underground.
@@Waauugh This is incorrect, the book bright is referring to only states that the Agarthans began to fight with each other and attempted to overthrow Sothis resulting in the genocide of most of the civilization, thus implying that Agartha was the global power at that point. The desire to destroy all surface dwellers came afterwards as a result of them worshiping Sothis. I am not saying they didn't deserve what happened to them though, said book also references their "carnal nature" and proclivity towards violence.
@@Aleph3575 Ooyyy, so there's no good true good sides then. OR, this is just speculation on my part, we can look at the Agarthan technology. Maybe it was damaging the world and Sothis came down and went "Bro, stop."
Isn't it implied that Nemesis was the one to kill Sothis? Or was it just Zanado?
As a mental health professional, I would say that the trauma experienced by Zephiel and Edelgard are vastly underrated in their placements on the list. Yes, trauma doesn’t excuse their actions but the tiers are measured in degrees of sympathy, not justification.
First, with Zephiel, his father tried to have him killed on multiple occasions. With the last attempt, there is a detail that you don’t mention that makes Zephiel’s descent to madness a bit ironic. Despite his father being absolutely terrible as a father and the man himself implies he’s nothing special to look up to, Zephiel does because he is his father. In the moment where he is poisoned, Zephiel goes into it extremely hopeful that he has finally gained the respect of his father despite having no reason to believe as such. That is why his father’s betrayal is so hurtful. Zephiel had so much hope that the betrayal of said hope had such the extreme effect it had on him. On top of this he had to kill his father or risk yet another attempt on his own life which just further compounds his trauma.
Next, with Edelgard, she literally witnesses her 10 siblings all die horrific deaths in front of her on top of the cruel experimentation done on her. She was taken as a political prisoner by the other nobles in the insurrection of the seven as well, which is what allowed the experimentation to take place. This is on top of everything else that is just messed up in Fodlan, take Hannemann as a good example of the horrors of the Crest system.
You’re sympathetic towards characters like Lyon and Julius because they had no control over being possessed. Zephiel and Edelgard had no control over their circumstances either. Lyon and Julius were released from their pain since they lost themselves. Zephyrs and Edelgard had to live with their pain up until their respective deaths. Yes, these are all just video game characters at the end of the day, however, I was compelled to write this because of the very real issue mental health can be and how this is something we can all benefit from being more mindful of.
While tier lists are obviously based on opinion (literally the whole point), I also got frustrated a bit with how much Egg switched between sympathy and justification villain by villain.
That's wrong they did have control over their circumstances and they chose to do bad things.
@@brightlight8852 By that argument, Lyon should also be viewed as unsympathetic because he choose to try and bring his father back to life rather than embrace ruling Grado himself when Vigarde died which is what led to his possession.
@Aleph3575 Well yeah, ultimately Leon had a choice and he made the wrong one it's not wrong to hold it against someone for making the wrong choice when they weren't forced to do it.
real
Edelgards whole shtick seems to allign with Rudolf and Walhart. Despite being a pretty intelligent character, her plan is kind of dumb and demands lots of unnecessary sacrifice and she is undoubtetly the main instigator of the war that plaques Fodlan for over 5 years. Its really hard to say if Edelgard deserves to hang with the Rigel boys up in Somewhat symphathetic tier but remaining stuck with guys like the Gharnefs and Ashnard is maybe a bit disingenuous. Maybe being in Somewhat Unsympathetic tier suits her best, surrounded by similar warmongers with sad pasts like Gangrel, Zephiel and Arvis.
And speaking of moving up, though Rhea did, in her own words, questionable things, she did suffer similar tragedy as Medeus, seeing almost her entire kin slaughtered and turned into makeshift weapons by humans but did not go to drastic genocide solutions like Medeus, Zephiel or Sephiran and instead ruled Fodlan for over thousand years in relative peace. That is to say, she should most likely sit next to Medeus in the tier.
Of course, these things, especially the 3H cast, are highly subjective. Oh, but Nemesis definetly goes to evil tier. This guy slaughtered dozens of innocents and made weapons out of their bones. It does not get any nastier than this. Honestly, I am baffled that Rhea allowed the reveration of Nemesis and the Ten Elites in the history books, hell, making most of their descendants even into nobles, after what they did to her family.
To add to medeus' hatred, the founder of the kingdom of archanea, ardrah, removed the star spheres from the binding shield to sell for money, weakening the seal and making the earth dragons go crazy. He then used the money to sweep across the continent and start his kingdom, and used the gemless shield as his nation's crest, the fire emblem. This was mentioned in fe3 book 2, not the remakes.
Really, if someone caused the insanity of my people to make money (even if indirectly), I would be pissed.
I think you oversimplified rheas motivation significantly. It's not just the loss of her mother that she mourns. Humans, including the 10 heroes, murdered her entire species in a fully unprovoked war. She still had the compassion and farsight to establish the church, change history so that the murderers of her kind became known as the 10 heroes and tried her darndest to get humans to at least use the legacy of her kin, the crests, for a better future. Instead she had to babysit them for centuries while they use the crests to do horrible research on each other, kill each other, create crest beasts and have nothing better to do than murder each other just as senselessly as they murdered the nabatheans.
Rhea is exhausted. She feels her sanity and her compassion slipping. She holds no love for humans after centuries of this nonsense and wants to revive her mother not only because of personal attachment, but also so that sothis can become the new archbishop and rhea can abdicate a position that has been slowy, but surely driving her insane.
Imho she should at least be in the somewhat sympathetic tier
Sounds honestly a bit similar to Medeus so it makes sense to tier them next to eachother.
I don't think building a church in the middle of the continent to raise children in order to kill any opposition for possibly centuries is "babysitting" the world and trying to make a better future. I don't think it had anything to do with compassion. It's just my opinion, but considering how it was shown she didn't give a fuck about any of the past children and men she had children with in order to resurrect her mother, and that she started caring about Byleth ONLY when he became the first one to be THIS close to be the successful attempt she wanted, makes me think she's entirely selfish, and that she wouldn't have hesitated a SECOND to kill of Byleth and co. If they didn't awaken like the others, and if everything wasn't going to change anyways (depending on your route). She probably would have started all over again having other children with other dudes for that reason, and continue to assert her dominance on Fodlàn for generations like she did up to this point.
Imo it really feels like she didn't lose any compassion or anything, but that she ALWAYS was self absorbed. Remember that the Rhea that INSTANTLY wanted to kill us and tear out our entrails when we side with edelgard is still the BASE Rhea we've seen up until this point in the first chapters, NOT the visibly religious maniac post timeskip in Edelgard's route. She did NOT hesitate a single second to want to kill us, while at this point of the story we were just siding with Edelgard to protect our pupil, not side with her for a war or anything.
@@Alector12 Except Rhea didn't do half the evil shit Medeus tried to do
@@GoldenRose116 Pretty much. Makes one wonder why Mangs put her below Medeus.
Zephiel and Ashnard are my favourite villains because they’re evil, they know they are and yet they are certain that they are doing the right thing.
Well said. They both are just pure bad ass
The best villains are the ones who believe they're right
Tbh, Zephiel is very selfconfirming. Roy goes to him saying "You are no better, you Hypocrite" and Zephiel just goes... "Yeah actually, that's true and kinda part of the whole idea. I am human, which is why I specifically do not want to rule, I only collect reign to pass it over later".
@@lpfan4491makes him all the more based
@@lpfan4491based af
FE7 dragon was chilling with his dragon friends when suddenly a portal opened and they were transported and another place. 😢
I mean if we are going to be real the FE7 dragon would fall under sympathetic, from it's perspective, it's just chillin, a portal opens, some guy is like "Hey come over here it's cool" so it does and they he is immediately attacked and killed after coming through the portal. Even if the player didn't do it, Nergal still planned on draining it.
Bruh. How are you gonna do Rhea dirty like that?
Are we just going to ignore her people were massacred?
Are we just going to ignore her people and her mom's remains were turned into WMDs?
Are we just going to ignore the fact Nemesis worked with the people who had her people massacred with HER MOM'S REMAINS?!
Are we just going to ignore that Rhea and Edelgard are perfect foils to one another?
Are we going to ignore the fact that Rhea only put up the crest system and the 10 elites because politics forced her to?
AND SHE GETS HIT WITH THE DRAGON DEMENTIA DEPENDING ON THE ROUTES YOU TAKE.
This Rhea slander is wild. Literally every other villain that had a backstory got it told in detail. Rhea? "Her mom died, sucks to be her."
Meanwhile, they're all but too happy to side with Edelgard, who actively assists her family's murderers.
There is a bit more to Lyon. He also saw the destruction of his country in a vision, and that is why he turned to the dark stone.
Personally, I would move Nemesis down a tier because just like the Gharnef archetypes, not knowing their motives does not excuse them.
I would also move Edelgard and Zelgius up a tier. Zelgius because aside of his interactions with Greil and his family, he has conducted himself honorably on multiple occasions.
An honorable person with an inexcusable motive goes into 'somewhat unsympathetic' for me. As for Edelgard, she falls into the 'relatable motive, bad methods' category, which would also be a case of 'somewhat unsympathetic'.
Edelgard also had very little choice. She has a couple years at most left to live thanks to her dual crests and would have been a powerless puppet emperor like her father helplessly watching her kids torment like he did had she not purged her court which would have already grabbed the church’s attention.
your scripted videos are some of your best content.
Thanks!
@@Mangs1337 be honest this whole vid came from the wah wah (insert trivial problem here)
Something I do not agree with you is the fact that you state that Rudolph sent Berkut to fight Alm, HOWEVER, Rudolph was always against the idea of letting him enter the battlefield in the first place, and every time Berkut ass got handed by Alm's army, Rudolph always told him to not fight Alm, other than that, the video is fine
Honestly you should have put the Begnion Senators on the list. They are basically responsible for everything bad that happens in Tellius. Thankfully that makes them easy to rank irredemably unsympathetic.
Yeah. They were the reason why Sephiran planned an all put genocide of the entire continent of Tellius by evoking Ashera's Wrath all cause nearly his entire people of Heron Lagus were wiped out over a misunderstanding THEY caused. Yeah. I would understand why Sephiran skipped the Magneto Stage and went full Apocalypse.
I actually disagree on Jedah's placement, even through he's clearly a villain, his motivations aren't simply "haha I'm evil because yes", his devotion to Duma is more out of fear, as you can see from the convo he and Alm & Celica have before the final fight, Jedah would rather keep Duma alive even through he's gone fully mad because he can't imagine a world where mankind can live without the aid of gods, so even through he goes absolutely the wrong way about it, he's just a man that's too scared to live without a higher being watching over him, or at least, that was always my analysis of him.
Yeah he is meant to be the foil to Celica who believes everything will be fine as long as they have Mila's blessing. She eventually accepts that the time of the two gods' is over while Jedah never did.
There are a few more important details that need to be noted about Sombron
1. His world had all of the Fell Dragons attempt to rebel against the Divine Dragons of their time, resulting in his race being wiped out with the exception of Sombron, who was a child at the time. So instead they banished him to the Engage world, where they expected the Divine Dragons there to keep him in check
2. Sombron lived for years with only his Emblem to keep him company. The Emblem spirit abandons Sombron the moment he finds someone willing to talk with him, which Sombron seems to interpret as the Emblem abandoning him for needing to rely on others. Alear theorizes that the Emblem left because they knew Sombron would be fine now that he had a companion.
Sombron was not fine.
3. Sombron’s goal is to search for his original Emblem so that his only parental figure could be proud of how strong Sombron had become since he started working on his own, and is completely apathetic towards the Engage world and any others he might end up going through. He essentially tells Alear to buzz off since Sombron wasn’t going to do anything further to Alear’s world anyways
So what you are saying is that Sombron is Toxic Masculinity personified. "Love and Kindness? Ew!! Thats for women and beta males. Nah, it's all about them gains!"
He's still a shitty character, even surpassing Anankos
@@AzumarillConGafasBv for sure yeah, committed like every war crime. Its just annoying to see him get dismissed like the Gharnefs when he’s not a “literally exists to be evil” character
Mangs, there are several important villains you skimped out on:
Where would you place Gheb, Glass, Batta the Beast, and Oliver? :p
And Kyza
Batta the Beast, the most evil of all evildoers. He's not called the Beast for nothing xD.
I'm glad to see my boy Lyon up in that tier. I played sacred stones for the first time when I was in 7th grade, I think. His story always made me feel so sad. I revisited recently as a 30 year old man and still feel the same way. And the way they do that flashback at the end of the game? I cry, dude.
Unsympathetic for Nemesis? The guy literally committed genocide against a pretty peaceful civilization, leaving almost no one left.
I actually have a theory as to why dragons degenerate over time. I think what's happening is that dragons are SO powerful that a physical body is actually incapable of containing all that power so then their physical bodies deteriorate over time. However when dragons become spirits or find some way to supress or contain their power such as through the use of a conduit like a dragon stone they seem to be fine. Just a theory though.
Nice one! Naga and Tiki are the perfect examples of overcoming that problem by becoming spirits or going to sleep so they can't deteriorate
Edelgard lost my sympathy when she sided with the people who ruined her life and brainwashed her in order to destroy the Church.
Yeah it definitely feels like she went after the wrong target,if anything the church would have helped her destroy the agartgans,the church has issues but there’s a lot of way of going about fixing them ,also she tried to have the other 2 lords killed for no reason
@@pedroribeirodesousa9152She wanted them killed so they wouldn't get in her way.
My thoughts exactly
I understand why they wrote it that way but at the same time its the dumbest thing ever
The thing is, she didn’t exactly have the full picture so she got easily put in that situation. Claude was really the only one who pieced the entire puzzle together mostly because he had the most time and incentive to do so.
i never knew how many gharnefs were in this game's history lmao this makes me appreciate the twist of idunn being a victim and zephiel being the main villain even more because without the context that you get at the end of the game she is basically set up to be another gharnef like character
FE6 is very much a creative mirror of the Archanea games.
Stuff like how the first chapter is a 90 degrees-turned version of FE1 chapter 1, but ends up playing a lot diffrently in practice. Or how both humans and dragons were major douchebags in both games' backstories, but Archanea focusses more on "The evil dragons! We must stahp them!", while FE6 parodies that direction at first, but ends up being more critical of the human side of the conflict in the end.
@@lpfan4491 imagine if they make a awakening like game but for elibe in FE 19 then
Jahn was FE6's Gharnef tbh.
As a content creator who has done a vid on this topic before this was a great watch to see a different opinion!!! Fantastic job, love this type of content!
Edit: about Gharnef, they actually touch upon the darksphere and him and how it’s darkness took a hold in such a manner that he was even capable of surviving without corporeal form due to the influence of it. Now WHY he always bad is a mystery, but the amplification was proveniente from the sphere, which I think is cool little tidbit of lore.
Personally I would move Nergal down a tier because his means to accomplishing his goals (Dark/Elder Magic) were already known as a corrupting force and he had people trying help him stop. As for Sephiran, I'm fine with where he is but am tempted to move him up a tier, since on top of the Serenes Massacre, he was also witness to the fall of Beorc and Laguz relationships, including species infighting, and the rise of trafficking. Like that's a lot of atrocities to witness in real time.
Nergal and Lyon are like Darth Vader, what makes them the same is they try to accumulate power even if the source of that power is questionable in order to save what they value and love the most but accumulating so much power corrupted them as that what always happens for seeking to be more powerful, they always fall to the dark side, as cliche as it sounds "Absolute power corrupts" just like what Batman said.
Such tragic characters makes interesting villains. You know they've fallen evil but you also understand why they did what they have done.
Edit: I saw one of the comments suggesting that Valter should also be here too since he too is also a Victim that turned him into look like an irredeemable prick.
Rating the main villains from FEH (till book 7):
Very sympathetic : Veronica, Fafnir
Somewhat sympathetic : Gullveig, Freyja
Somewhat unsympathetic : Embla
Irredeemably unsympathetic : Surtr, Hel, Eitri
yea I say veronica is very sympathetic because she couldnt control her blood until way later. gullveig because well she was controlled and well... for embla... embla became evil due to jealously... freyja I do feel bad for her because she has loyal followers like plumeria. I dont know whats freyja reason why she attacks humans. I think Surtr probally ties in evil when compare to ashnard, the dark wizard new mystery emblem, and begion senator
5:25
In defence of Judah, there is a line in Echoes where Judah gives the impression that they believe it is impossible for humans to not live under a Dragon’s authority.
An insane dragon is bad but if you believe no dragon means humans go bye-bye, I can see the logic of sticking with the insane dragon.
I may be making a very far-fetched statement but.. I think there was a reason why Zelgius killed Greil.
We know that Zelgius isn't the type of man to unnecessarily kill people and he is also very calculating. If he killed for the sake of competition then he might have killed Skirmir, a Powerful lion laguz and proved his strength. But killing Skirmir would demolish his original intents of peace talk. Like I said very calculating. He also took many abuses from Begnion Senators without retaliating. He even accepted execution for upholding his honour.
I am pretty sure when he met Ike he must have realised his potential. In fact, Ike could be the only one to thwart Ashnard's and Sephiran's mad plans. Maybe, in all his disguise, he planned to have Sephiran's plan thwarted.
I'm saying this because it would've been impossible for Ike to become this strong if his father wasn't slaughtered..He gave Ike this motivation. I do not deny that he wanted to groom him into his father's equal but he may have done this because he already calculated the possibility that Ike may be the only one who can save world from destruction. Even if Zelgius didn't assist Sephiran, he would've still succeeded into awakening Ashera. But because of how loyal Zelgius is to Sephiran he found an indirect path to foil his plans without actually confronting his master.
This could be possible because of how much Zelgius looked up to Greil. And he believed that Ike is the only one who can surpass Greil and be the one to save the world.
Lyon being very sympathetic is not right. Lyon literally goes Sicko mode just because he lost his Father and grado suffers earthquakes all the time(Which is very sad) does not justify throwing a nation's worth of army to their death just to try to resurrect a Dark God that easily 1v1 him. Also playing against Eirika's/Ephraim's psyche instead of trying to talk to them directly is also not OK. Lyon literally started a war over nothing because he wanted all the power and not wanted to win favors with diplomacy. I'll say that Somewhat unsympathetic is the most fitting because Lyon is a sympathetic villain, but his means are pure insanity, especially in the Ephraim Route.
Eirika story > Ephraim story. Making Lyon into something that isn't sympathetic was a mistake.
Thales wanted to commit mass genocide upon the children of the goddess as revenge for being forced underground, but considering what the dlc has shown me the underground is kinda neat so hes a dumbass. 2/10 killed by boulder
I have always given Veld bonus points for being the only final boss that isn't a dragon, god, or possessed/blessed with god powers.
I missed this a few months back... Top notch Video Mango!
Evil characters that are evil because they're evil are built differently
This post was approved by Ashnard enjoyers.
IZUKA MENTIONED 🗣🗣
I hope Engage is the last "let me tell you about my tragic childhood for the next 27 minutes" villain we get for a while
GARON MENTIONED 🗣️🔥🔥 WHAT THE FUCK IS GOOD WRITING 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
@@grandarkfang_1482 Ashnard's battle convo with Ike also shows he is not just a badass, but also that he is dedicated to his beliefs. The one where says something along the lines of "Ashnard, I'm going to kill you!" and Ashnard is just like "You kill me? If you are capable of that good! That is the principle on which my ideal world is built!" or something along those lines.
I disagree on Zelgius. He may be a dick for killing Greil and forcing Ike to become the succesor of Greil, but he was also the driving force behind Ike becoming the man he is at the end of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. I also think that he actually cared a lot about Ike because he knew what happened to his mom and Greil's madness. This is important because he could have easily told him about it to have Ike tip over the edge, but instead he decided to taunt him in other ways and guide him by his mere looming presenece. It should also be considered that without Zelgius returning in RD, Ike had a reason to become stronger again which in turn led to him literally killing god. I still don't think that he should be placed any higher than "Somewhat Sympathetic" but I do believe that he is the best "Rival" character they ever made.
He was a good teacher. And a good friend.
Iirc, sombron was exiled and brought over an Emblem Ring, he lost that Emblem Ring after supposedly connecting with some in Elyos, gone emo, built an army and trusted nobody to get emblem ring powers, then travel to other worlds to find said ring.
Doesnt change his rating tho lol.
"Built and army and trusted nobody". Nice.
What happened to Dorcas
It just dawned on me, Sombron is just Gollum but a dragon...and he takes it out on others lmao.
Edlegard is really dumb villain when you think about it.
Her ire towards the church is based off a false telling of historical events. Her entire basis for hating the church is completely debunked by the revelations in Verdant Wind.
It also makes no sense for her to target the church, while she cooperates with the people who were actually behind her suffering. It's not even like she doesn't know the Agarthans did it. She just chooses to look past it, and attack the church instead.
The church actively enables the classism by telling their false history of the crests. And again, the Agarthans were useful to her. She had to play along with them until she could backstab them. We see clearly in 3 Hopes what happens when she doesn't.
Love when you make these analysis videos!!
Villains that have greater motivations than evil for sake of evil are great, but they're also really hard to do, which is how Edelgard falls flat when she is a self-made hipocrite by doing awful, basically iredeemable crimes to justify her means, which instead of seeing sympathetic, just looks pathetic.
Dimitri is the One True King of Fodlan. Claude is just a foreign invader
I also hate the fact that she is rarely ever challenged for her choices, definitely in her own route, unlike the other characters
@@4wheal All of the students you fight challenge her on her stance. Dimitri challenges her. Dimitri even has a private meeting with her during his route. Claude also challenges her.
@@goroadachi9489 No, they dont they become yes men who go along with whatever she says the few that might raise a concern either give up or have to alter their beliefs to fit what Edelgard wants. That's because the writers know Edelgard can't stand as a character if people point out the joles in her logic.
The Dimitri one in AM is one i will give you, and it's probably the best writer Edelgard is as a character in the game.
@@4wheal Dimitri literally has a private meeting with Edelgard herself, and challenges her on her ideals. Even the students who join you do it for a specific reason, not tied to Edelgard’s beliefs.
I thought this was an insightful, well thought out, and concise overview of every villain 🎉
Lyon is an interesting case. in one route. he is completely taken over by the demon king. in the other. he let the demon king corrupt him but stayed in control. Making him a bit harder to judge. Also. it was not just him losing his dad but he also found out most of Grado would be destroyed by natural disaster if he didn't do anything.
Berkut... he truly was tossed under the bus by his uncle and pretty much just lost his mind in the end when he thought Rinea turned against him. Does not excuse him killing Rinea but still.
As for Nergal. He left his kids behind and instructed them to use the dragons gate if he did not come back in time from saving his wife. Needless to say. he failed to save his wife and came back too late for his kids. Later. after meeting Athos and learning how to steal quintessence from knowledge in Arcadia to save him kids. He just went too far and was struck down and banished. Soon after. dark magic completely corrupted him. One can argue how much was his own doing and how much was the dark magic. Especially his actions in Arcadia.
maybe Eremiya from FE12 and Raydrik from FE5 should have been on the list too..
Eremiya is kinda unratable for all intends and purposes. Like, do we rate the original Eremiya or the one we fight in the story? One is the sweetest woman ever but got overwritten by brainwashing only to be briefly restored later to be taunted and the other may as well be an AI programmed to only know to be horrible because she is a brainwashing-induced rewrite by Gharnef.
There is really no meaningful conversation to be had, one version of her is in very sympathetic by default and the other in irredeemably unsympathetic by default, and neither is anyone's fault except the evil wizard who is so unsympathetic that he needs a new tier at this point.
Was he really in control though? It's very possible that he was being manipulated in Ephram's route, in other words he was basically a puppet to the Demon King and doing his bidding while believing that he wasn't.
Imagine not truly being in control of your own actions while thinking that you are, the thought of that is horrifying.
@@AceAviations2 Ephraim route definitly muddies the waters and tbh, that's not really a good thing.
@@pandabanaan9208 That would be cool. If they didn't pull a "nuh uh, he is not in control actually" at the 11th hour. Ephraim mode straught up does not know what to say, so it says muddied gibberish. Eirika's story is pretty stereotypical, but playing it straight allowed for them to craft something of quality.
Being "unique" does not mean being good, it's like the plottwist idea of "You thought I was good? Nah, trolled" that is getting deployed way too much in recent years.
@@pandabanaan9208 One could also pitch for why stuff like Fates isn't bad in this exact way. "It doesn't go along with established writing, so it's fresh and therefore good." And well, Morva and even the Demon King himself very much claim that Lyon was never in control.
Lyon's actions also make no sense for anyone who isn't either completely out of free will, unless they are completely mad. "I want to become the demon king so I have the power to fix the world. But I won't fix the world, because that means I will turn evil. I want you to kill me when I turn, which means that I won't have time to do anything of value, so the entire thing is a bad idea". Like, that is an actual task he gives Ephraim, to stop him before he can do anything, even to it logically does not track in the slightest.
Man, after I've met Edelgard for the first time, she was destined to fit the dictator role. One that will do anything to achieve their goal, even teaming up with people who fucked you up. She 100% make go "But whyyyyy?!?!"
Sombron doesn't care about the world. He just wants to find his friend. Still an irredeemable scumbag but he is specifically not on a world ending plot. He would've been happy to ditch the main character's world after he fucked it up in order to leave.
I'm pretty sure it's not the case, but the Three Houses part feels like made by someone who either only played AM and read the other stories online or played them but ignored most of it. I feel like this because there's a clear lack of information about the things we learn in VW and SS. Also it's missing an important part from CF.
-Nemesis: So, he killed an entire race to steal their power and reign over the world. Unless you're the kind of person who just betrays and backstabs people to climb in power, there's no way you can sympathise with him. He is 100% irredimably unsimpathetic.
-Rhea: Killed the guy that killed her entire race (you said her mother, but, even though it is true, it's not the full picture). Then controlled the world to try to find a way to revive her mother. She is not a perfect ruler or anything and sure did experiments to revive her mother, but in her route you realise the only reason she implanted Rhea's heart in Byleth was because it was the only way to save her, and that the info you got was partially distorted to make her look worse. Regardless, she goes in either of the mid tiers, but the reasoning clearly lacked the full info, so maybe the placement would have gone 1 tier up.
-Edelgard: I'm not gonna say edelgard is not evil, she is. Even in CF, in which she redeems herself a bit by reducing her relations with TWSITD and eventually eliminating them. Either way, CF story is of no consecuence as we're talking about antagonist Edelgard. What I can't understand is how Arvis who did the exact same as her are a tier above and she isn't. They both fith the exact same "the end justifies the means" model. Arvis redeems himself after everything he achieved breaks down. Edelgard is suposed to be a good ruler when she wins the war. They're basically the same villain in slightly different circumstance and they are judged completely different. In case of "Edelgard killed Dimitri's parent's" argument, feel free to check what Arvis does at the end of chapter 5.
-Dimitri: He is one of the the main antagonists of CF, and should appear in the video. In any case, he would be in the very sympathetic category, he's not exactly perfectly nice, but he's not done any real evil beside wanting revenge for his parents' deaths.
Lyon just got used by the demon king as a vessel, and that's the part that sucks
I agree with Arvis' placement. Some people are more sympathetic to him because later in life he learned the terrible mistakes he made, somewhat redeeming himself.
But he was very much unsympathetic in his goals when he became Emperor where he was just a glorious bastard.
Because we got to see him learn from his mistakes it makes him more sympathetic and frankly pulls him out of irredeemably sympathetical. His bsckstory isn't enough to make him more sympathetic, its actually his development after the fact.
Zephiel is somewhat the opposite. He never redeems himself, we can just understand how he got to that point.
Lol @ Edelgard.
I don't like her, I think her plan is absolutely terrible and her means of doing so are even worse. That said even I would put her in "Somewhat Unsympathetic" lol. I can at least understand she became completely broken and is being manipulated by the true villains.
Nemesis I think does fall into Irredeemable. What little we know of him proves he is.
I'm surprised Raydrik didn't make the cut. I know there's a lot I'm missing since I only brushed on a playthrough of Thracia, but being the twofold traitor would easily make him an unsympathetic character, being an opportunist with little regard for consequences.
16:14 i think he is somewhat sympathetic.
He was branded and was alone as a person.
He probably defines himself in his ability to fight because he trusts nothing else.
It happens to men who lost faith and trust in all others and thus substitute and cope by placing that trust and faith in non-human things... Things like culture (fandoms, groups, basically shared values based on an abstract principle or idea).
His culture is that of battle and he devotes himself completely in it.
I think Jedah should go in the somewhat unsympathetic tier; his motivation is his misguided belief that if Duma goes mad, Rigel is completely screwed (very similar to how celica views the disappearance of Mila).
2:22...I did not have Falchion for this fight, I used Capped Strength Barst with Devil Axe to kill Medeus.
How is zephiel higher than edelgard?
At least she isn’t trying to wipe out humanity and only has a few years to live
And how is Medeus more sympathetic than Rhea, for that matter?? Rhea's not trying to start a war to subjugate or wipe out humanity, she's trying to prevent a war if anything. And she's a LOT more open to seeing reason than Medeus is.
@@aloysiusokon3334 she and edelgard are literally mirrors to eachother. They should be the same rank wherever they are
@@aloysiusokon3334 She kills anyone who opposes her and burns people alive in CF endgame. How is that more sympathetic than Medeus?
@@hanzou1238 She killed people who made at least three attempts on her life and thought their position as priests would protect them from retribution. Sending Christophe (1), Lord Lonato's militia (2), Holy Mausoleum raid (3). To her it's not just to behead Kostas, a low-level thug, but spare someone who raised an army to kill her people. She sees no value in arbitrary titles when it comes to murder and banditry.
@@hanzou1238 Because you sided with the person who started a war of conquest against her and the rest of the continent in that route- and note that that's at the endgame, after 5 years of war, I believe. Marth isn't trying to conquer the world for the "greater good".
Also, that's only for the CF. In the other routes, Rhea's way less bloodthirsty and far more willing to own up to her failings and give up power. Medeus never does that.
for nergal i'd say very sympathetic because its got to be the dark magic's fault, he doesn't even remember his children, only his original goal of opening the gate, though the reason is forgotten and the why's, only Athos's friend at the game seemed to have mastered dark magic but became a mirror to any who are in front of him, he remained good and even helped revive Ninian saying he'll probably be dead soon too, reviving Ninian with no negative side effects probably took everything out of him, when people love too much and mess with the dark arts ya kinda can lose your mind as if possessed
I remember listening to a video exploring Nergal's backstory and it was pointed out that Nergal and Brammimond are very good foils of each other. Both dark magic users, both lost themselves in that pursue. But Nergal kept his ego while everything else around him deteriorated, while Brammimond lost most of himself but kept somehow kept his sense of right and wrong. To put the nail int he coffin, Nergal never achieved his goal of reviving someone while Brammimond seemingly did at the cost of the rest of his life. It seems that truly mastering Dark magic means losing yourself, but Brammimond was the only one you could call a true master in the end.
@@Raharu95 I say playing FE7 makes you feel much more out of playing FE6, though not canon i didn't know at the time I got FE8 first then 7 then 6 on Emu so felt more from Hector passing and raising Lilina to wreck Bern and for Sue as well since I assumed she was Lyn's daughter and getting Athos's and Brammimond's tomes too
@@Raharu95 IMO, the primary difference between the two is that Nergal didn't accomplish his goal. While we don't know a ton about Bramimond, he's one of the Eight legends, so his goal in mastering the Arts may have been to defend humanity against the dragons. Having accomplished that, he turned to simply defending his legendary tome, and the Seals on the other's tombs.
Nergal doesn't strike me as being particularly driven by ego, or even possessing much ego. He doesn't really ever act particularly evil; he kills quickly for the purpose of gathering quintessence, and he doesn't ever get particularly nasty, just cold and driven. He is almost single-mindedly driven to resurrect/recreate his wife. I think the reason he tries to open the gate is his old connection to the dragons, and his hunt for quintessence, of which he would need a massive quantity in order to create and sustain a draconic morph.
Also, I think Aenir was like, hella dead by the time he found her (assuming he did), whereas Ninian was more of in-the-process of dying when Bramimond revives her. So I'm not sure actual resurrection is a possibility in Elibe (which is also typical for fantasy settings, usually necromancy is the closest it gets).
Basically, I think Nergal wasn't quite entirely soulless due to his extremely powerful grip on his goal, while Bramimond was which results in him literally mirroring whomever he is interacting with. To summarize, neither really exhibited much moral agency, which could be attributed to their mastery of the dark arts.
@@avaliantsoul5408 nergal has never been shown to want to resurrect aenir. he gathered quintessence to open the dragons gate, not the other way around. specifically, he wanted to gather quintessence and open the dragons gate in order to reunite with his kids, but too much dabbling in dark magic made him forget why he wanted to open the dragons gate in the first place. so his insane, addled mind wants to do it to release the dragons and control them to conquer elibe
I would also say that Thales and Nemesis are irredeemably unsympathetic because Thales sends Nemesis with the 10 Elites to slaughter the Nabateans in the canyon of Zanado. Nemesis and the 10 Elites then drank the blood of the Nabateans they killed, and the Agarthans fashioned their bones into weapons. They drove Rhea to madness and to commit the horrific acts that she does.
It's also Thales that forced Edelgard into becoming what she is. As much as Edelgard chose to do a lot of horrible things in 3H, Thales was the puppetmaster. I realized this whenever Edelgard talks about Rhea and the Nabateans in Crimson Flower - I can't tell if it's her talking or some form of Agarthan mental conditioning.
It’s moreso that Edelgard only knows so much, and has a harder time getting access to the information that Claude was able to get his hands on. Even Hubert was barely able to get part of the puzzle. That combined with the fact that she had to keep the support of the soldiers, puts her in a bad spot.
Here's the thing. Some speculate that the emblem Sombron lost is Sommie, since Sommie appears on an emblem pedestal. If true, then all of his actions are understandable and 100% justifiable. Who wouldn't wage war against the world if that little guy left your side without notice.
Nergal is by far one of the best Antagonists they ever made. His backstory being locked behind multiple playthroughs, secrets, and gaidens was a great choice.
I love the lore videos Mangs! Some of my favorites you’ve ever done, happy to see another one
Although you did miss Raydrik from 776, dunno if there’s too much to say about him but I did find his absence somewhat strange
One of the biggest problems Modern Fire emblem has with it's villains is that they are either completely irredeemably evil. Or they are supposed to be sympathetic and they inform us of why they are evil...but we simply don't see enough of it. We never get a frame of reference.
I want to see more villains like Duma, Nergal and Arvis. And less villains like Sombron and TWSD.
The weird part is that they try to give Thales a frame of reference, like 10 seconds before Azure Gleam is over.
The idea they went with could have even gone somewhere, if it didn't come 2 whole games too late(and there wasn't dialogue saying even other members of TWSD are iffy about him), because it actually fits prior lore.
I think for me, one of the most “compelling” parts of Nergal is how hard you, the player, need to work to unearth his story. The conditions on finding his plot are so finite…so almost impossible to uncover without a guide…that it makes me more sympathetic. For some reason. Regardless, I think he’s well placed here.
I think that Jedah is more like a reflection of Celica and her overreliance in her godess.
Mostly agree, but for Three Houses
I would say Nemesis should Iredeemable unsymphatetic. Sure we don't know much about his background but he did butchered Sothis and probably Nabateans too. I think we know barely enough.
In other hand I would put Rhea higher. Regardless whether you believe she's wrong and had to go or not, her trying resuscitate Sothis in Byleth is only thing (outside of going nuts on the end of CF) that she did straightforwardly evil (and even there is a bit of wiggle room) and she didn't even succeed there. I think she did too much of good both in story and in across the hundreds years of her life to be considered unsymphatic.
I’m sorry but placing black knight, who spends his entire life as a tool of those taking advantage of his desire to belong, who is a fundamentally broken man who has been chewed up and spit out by society, who literally fought for 3 masters at the same time and still did not see himself as worthy of his success because he was not able to best his teacher (and he was right, Gawain would’ve dogwalked him if he hadn’t crippled himself) is SO much more sympathetic than Sephiran, and saying “I get it, humans kinda suck” is a lame answer. Zelgius is no dipherent in morality than zephiel, but almost all of his actions are at the whim of others
Happy egg talking about villains, made my day 😂
I thought this was a Heroes Video with that thumbnail. "They're Grand Hero Battles give them a break...except for Edelgard."
"Birthrates started plummeting and his fellow dragons went insane."
*modern day intensifies*
posting before someone gets upset that Dimitri isn't listed here at all.
No way Berkut is more sympathetic than Zelgius I need what ur smoking
to be fair on rudolf's seemingly insane plan of start a war that'll make everyone hate him but love his hero son, his goal was to kill duma and mila, who while mentally unstable, were still beloved by their people, and killing mila specifically would've caused a war no matter what.
plus for the most part it was the duma faithful and chansolar desaix who were doing most of the evil stuff.
rudolf still enabled that by starting the war, but with how he acted throughout that war, it's clear he didn't want a war, he just couldn't find an alternative.
Tbh, that is kind of an issue with Echoes imo, it does not really give a compelling reason why Rudolf just got rid of Mila first. While both went mad, it always seemed like it hit Duma much worse and he should have been the priority.
@@lpfan4491 that is not true at all, there's a pretty simple reason why: duma only gave rudolf the falchion so he could kill mila, so it was either kill mila first or not kill either of them at all.
but even without considering that, there's still a pretty obvious reason why he didn't go straight for duma's head, as his own country would immediately turn against him, likely meaning he wouldn't even have an army to go kill duma at all.
considering like half of all the enemies in the game are duma faithful i wouldn't be surprised if they made up a lot of rudolf's army, but even the ones who hadn't literally sold him their souls would still consider him their god, and they wouldn't want him dead, especially since it'd make their already baren land even worse.
and this is all assuming he could've killed duma at all. duma was described as war god, having a might makes right philosophy, and it took the combined efforts of two lords and their armies to finally take him down. on the other hand, mila was a god of indulgence, and like her country, likely got too comfortable with that lifestyle, and her strength easily could've atrophied enough that rudolf could defeat her (and even then, he couldn't even kill her as she simply sealed herself and falchion away)
@@lpfan4491 "hey, soldiers! let us go kill our god!"
i doubt that plan would be possible any time. unless he was able to kill duma singlehandedly, he had to get creative
It may not be cannon from the games but the fe4 manga by osawa shines so much more light on the villains and makes them all much better characters especialy Travant. If anyone has time to spare I highly recommend it since it recently finnished translating
Honestly I agree with a lot of this list with most things being pretty minor, but the main differences for me are that I would put Sephiran up a tier as watching the genocide of your people is something that I could easily see why you’d want the world to end and while it isn’t excusable, especially since he can join you kind of, I think he at least deserves some sympathy. Then for Nemesis, I don’t know if I made this up or what, but I always assumed that he did what he did in response to oppression from the children of the goddess and the depiction we see is really just the church doing it’s thing, but I could be wrong.
Then the big one for me is Edelgard. Not because what she did was right or made even a bit of sense siding with those who slither, but because you need to keep in mind she did this all when she was a child. She saw pretty much all of her family wiped out and was tortured herself and, being that she’s a child, only saw one way out which was to side with the smaller force that she thought she could take out afterwards. Well thought out? No. But I think she deserves at least some sympathy considering her situation.