I had a 2500 that had a 10k GVWR....wasnt towing so didnt really care but was well aware and it even states it on sticker....my 10k truck felt softer empty but dont know if it actually was are the torsion bars and springs different on the std versions....I know they have different torsion bars for GMs....not sure if the add an overload spring or not for 10850 or 11350 versions....they have a max tow version for 3/4 which essentially makes them a 3500, for diesel only i believe
You bought a de-rated truck. Most states if the GCWR is 10,001lbs you need DOT numbers. On my ‘24 3/4 ton with the L8T my GVWR is 10,950 and GCWR is 26,000lbs. Which I believe is the sweet spot. The derate robs you of a 1/2 ton of legal payload. This used to be a non-issue with 3/4 ton trucks but now they have so much capability they have to be derated to stay within limits. You are completely right on the normal vs derated. You have the same parts as my 3/4 ton. My sticker says 16k from the hitch, 18.1k gooseneck. So 1810lbs gooseneck pin weight, 1600lbs tongue weight on the hitch. My rear axle GAWR is 6600lbs, which is where you’ll hit the limit first on a 3/4 ton.
FYI Sure-Trac makes an aluminum 14k equipment trailer. I think it weights just over 2k for the 18 or 20' version. I'm sure its not cheap, but if you are trying to squeeze out max capacity from "lighter" trailers it may be an option.
If I am thinking correctly the gvwr for the trailer is how the trailer is built. the manufacturer does not know what you will be using for a tow vehicle so the GCWR will be different across the board but the more weight you put over the GVWR of the trailer the more it will affect the structural integrity of the trailer. The whole "axle weight bridge law" formula which is what a lot of states use to figure out the ratings has always been a little confusing to me because you can be under GVWR (80,000 for semi's for example) but way over if you axle it out. Thats just my thoughts on the issue. I've always been a "If you can fit it on the trailer and move it.....load it and go" type of guy!
Great insight. I’m definitely trying to be on the mindful side and not get things overloaded. At this point I’m going to struggle with tongue weight long before I start maxing out the capacities on this trailer.
So lets say you had required a heavier weight rating, you went with a 1 ton dually for examples sake and a trailer of equal or greater capacity to what you bought. That obviously would put you over this mystical 26000 GCWR that your government pulled out of their you know where ... what would your costs be then for insurance, licensing for the vehicle, trailer etc. And of course you would have to get your CDL which is the other aspect. I'd just be curious what additional yearly costs would be associated with the jump into the commercial picture.
Its been said that some short box pickups ( I suppose they call them standard box with the HD line of the big three pickup trucks ) , I haven't specifically looked by eye to see how each ( GM/Ram/Ford ) lines up their fifth wheel/gooseneck ball socket relative to the centre line of the rear axle. So being that you have the Gm product, what do your eyes tell you as to how that goose-ball lines up with the axle, is it behind the axle a few inches by any chance ?.
To my eyes, it is lined up 5-6" behind the centerline of the rear axle. I'm not sure if my insurance costs would rise substantially for the kind of business I have, but having to hold a CDL, and all the things that would have to come with that (log book, DOT inspections, etc, etc), are enough for me to want to stay out of that for now.
@@JamesonsTractorThat confirms what I had been hearing as per the point of weight contact being behind the axle, while not exactly idea physically for proper weight balance and handling, its trying to make the short box dimensions work with a fifth wheel holiday trailer or equipment trailer in your case where as a full 8 foot box places the king pin over the axle I believe. Typically with a highway tractor one is either running the fifth wheel plate on centre or ahead of the drive axle group centre line for proper handling and to not take any weight off of the steer axle. Of course a bumper pull is far worse in geometry and why a weight distribution hitch is required at some point to get that weight back onto the steer axle. I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with DOT and whatever expenses would be associated with it and why some states from what understand have rules that allow farmers to run some types of truck/trailer configurations without the CDL or the log book and so forth with distance restrictions etc in order for the farmer to move his own product to market and with extra weight carry ability. I farm in Alberta and we are forced to have a Class 1 ( CDL ) and abide by all the same weight laws as the commercial ventures ( my heaviest current truck/trailer grosses out at 105000 lb winter weights for example ) but don't have to run a log book or pay the insane price per year for the truck license like the commercial hauler, however we can NOT be for hire so its only our own grown goods or equipment that can be hauled. As far as I know ( unless rules have changed ), here in Alberta companies can run hot shot truck/trailer setups that will use a one ton or even a 5500 etc and whatever size goose neck and only require the basic passenger vehicle drivers license to legally drive it, as long as the truck does NOT have air brakes and the trailer does NOT have air brakes and that the truck can have no more than two axles. So as far as I know that just under 10000 lb GVW pickup theme is not a thing here, I imagine it can be ordered but would be pointless.
@@charlesb4267 That's great info and it definitely makes sense to me. It'd be nice if we had the same restriction where a CDLs required once you get into vehicles with air brakes.
@@JamesonsTractor Yes, and meanwhile you see 40 some foot long triple axle RV toyhauler fifth wheel trailers drive along past you without a care in the world as they give the DOT guy the finger !.
Va if if trailer is 10001 lbs you have you are class a cdl. I can drive a class b truck but if it's over 10001lbs then I'm illegal. Regardless empty or not.
I grew up in VA. Transportation is much more regulated there than it is in TN. Most of those regulations I don't care for, although, you don't see nearly as many broke down cars on the side of the road in VA due to the annual inspections. So maybe some of the regulations are good?
So I’m guessing you are trying to stay out of needing a class A CDL for what you’re doing? If so here’s the class A CDL requirements: 1) 26,001 pounds and up GCWR AND the trailer has a 10,000 GVWR or higher rating. So for example, a 26,000 GVWR truck could tow a 9,999 GVWR trailer without a class A CDL. Now since you’re doing this for a business having a standard GVWR gas Chevy would require you to have a medical examiner’s card (a CDL physical or some say DOT physical). That requirement comes into play when the trucks GVWR exceeds 10,000 pounds. So this is one of the reasons the 10,000 GVWR derated trucks like yours exist. So companies can have drivers drive the trucks without needing a medical card. If you would have went with the standard GVWR you would have had to have gotten a medical card at the least unless you say you’re not for hire. Then it would be up to the state you live in and their specific requirements for GVWRs above 10,000. Some have none, some make you register differently and so on. Now about your truck, you’re technically right in there’s no real difference in your derated truck compared to a standard GVWR truck. However, your rear axle is derated also to 6,390 pounds as compared to 6,600 pounds for a standard GVWR truck. I think it’s all just pencil whipping, but it is derated and once you start hitting upper 2,000 pound tongue weights you will almost certainly exceed the 6,390 axle rating. And another thing about your truck is the GCWR is probably also derated, so I’m not even sure you would ever be able to hit that near 26,000 number. The standard GVWR trucks have a 26,000 GCWR cap. That was increased for the 2024 trucks by 2,000 pounds as compared to the 2020-2023s. Your towing sticker will list your ratings.
That’s all great info! You have great insight on this stuff. My GCWR as listed on the sticker on the truck is also 26,000lbs. I’m surprised they didn’t lower it with the GAWR and GVWR.
@@JamesonsTractor that’s good then. That’s what they rate the diesels that have a 10,000 GVWR too (26,000 GCWR) and that’s down from a standard GVWR diesel but I can’t remember exactly what the number is. Ultimately I think to keep from needing a CDL and medical card a long with the DOT numbers and commercial insurance and registration you got the correct setup as is. Now it’s debatable if you should get commercial insurance and such but legally you could just blow by scales because you don’t meet the requirements per federal law. That of course is assuming that you are telling the DOT you’re not for hire and you’re doing this for private use. If you do end up going full blown commercial usage, non CDL I’m pretty sure the DOT just measures axle weights and they make sure you’re not exceeding any of those along with what your tags are good for (big rig trucks are tagged for 80,000 pounds). I don’t think they really pay much attention to what the truck is rated for other than the axle ratings. Admittedly I’m not sure about that though. I have a class A cdl for work but I’m not a ”real truck driver”. I work in the rail industry so all of our trucks exceed the 26,000 GVWR and the 26,000 GCWR along with the 10,000 GVWR trailer. I can confidently say that CDL laws are purely a money racket and being a commercial operator cost you a lot more money than a private/not for hire operator does.
@@danthompson1467 that’s not true. His current setup does not require a CDL because it doesn’t meet the requirements. The law is very simple: if your GCWR exceeds 26,000 pounds (he doesn’t) AND the trailer being towed exceeds 10,000 GVWR (his does but his combined weight doesn’t exceed 26,000).
OH MY GOSH, is this all for TH-cam points or what. Before you get on here do Ur friggin homework and maybe know what you are talking about. I'm just saying. From over 54 years of specialized trucking. Go learn something first.
I had a 2500 that had a 10k GVWR....wasnt towing so didnt really care but was well aware and it even states it on sticker....my 10k truck felt softer empty but dont know if it actually was
are the torsion bars and springs different on the std versions....I know they have different torsion bars for GMs....not sure if the add an overload spring or not for 10850 or 11350 versions....they have a max tow version for 3/4 which essentially makes them a 3500, for diesel only i believe
That's good to know! Thanks for the info.
You bought a de-rated truck. Most states if the GCWR is 10,001lbs you need DOT numbers. On my ‘24 3/4 ton with the L8T my GVWR is 10,950 and GCWR is 26,000lbs. Which I believe is the sweet spot. The derate robs you of a 1/2 ton of legal payload. This used to be a non-issue with 3/4 ton trucks but now they have so much capability they have to be derated to stay within limits.
You are completely right on the normal vs derated. You have the same parts as my 3/4 ton. My sticker says 16k from the hitch, 18.1k gooseneck. So 1810lbs gooseneck pin weight, 1600lbs tongue weight on the hitch. My rear axle GAWR is 6600lbs, which is where you’ll hit the limit first on a 3/4 ton.
That’s good info on the DOT numbers for the 10,001 and over. I think you have the sweet spot with yours as well!
FYI Sure-Trac makes an aluminum 14k equipment trailer. I think it weights just over 2k for the 18 or 20' version. I'm sure its not cheap, but if you are trying to squeeze out max capacity from "lighter" trailers it may be an option.
I’ll have to check that out! I’m sure it’s expensive but may be worth it in the future!
If I am thinking correctly the gvwr for the trailer is how the trailer is built. the manufacturer does not know what you will be using for a tow vehicle so the GCWR will be different across the board but the more weight you put over the GVWR of the trailer the more it will affect the structural integrity of the trailer. The whole "axle weight bridge law" formula which is what a lot of states use to figure out the ratings has always been a little confusing to me because you can be under GVWR (80,000 for semi's for example) but way over if you axle it out. Thats just my thoughts on the issue. I've always been a "If you can fit it on the trailer and move it.....load it and go" type of guy!
Great insight. I’m definitely trying to be on the mindful side and not get things overloaded. At this point I’m going to struggle with tongue weight long before I start maxing out the capacities on this trailer.
So lets say you had required a heavier weight rating, you went with a 1 ton dually for examples sake and a trailer of equal or greater capacity to what you bought. That obviously would put you over this mystical 26000 GCWR that your government pulled out of their you know where ... what would your costs be then for insurance, licensing for the vehicle, trailer etc. And of course you would have to get your CDL which is the other aspect. I'd just be curious what additional yearly costs would be associated with the jump into the commercial picture.
Its been said that some short box pickups ( I suppose they call them standard box with the HD line of the big three pickup trucks ) , I haven't specifically looked by eye to see how each ( GM/Ram/Ford ) lines up their fifth wheel/gooseneck ball socket relative to the centre line of the rear axle. So being that you have the Gm product, what do your eyes tell you as to how that goose-ball lines up with the axle, is it behind the axle a few inches by any chance ?.
To my eyes, it is lined up 5-6" behind the centerline of the rear axle. I'm not sure if my insurance costs would rise substantially for the kind of business I have, but having to hold a CDL, and all the things that would have to come with that (log book, DOT inspections, etc, etc), are enough for me to want to stay out of that for now.
@@JamesonsTractorThat confirms what I had been hearing as per the point of weight contact being behind the axle, while not exactly idea physically for proper weight balance and handling, its trying to make the short box dimensions work with a fifth wheel holiday trailer or equipment trailer in your case where as a full 8 foot box places the king pin over the axle I believe. Typically with a highway tractor one is either running the fifth wheel plate on centre or ahead of the drive axle group centre line for proper handling and to not take any weight off of the steer axle. Of course a bumper pull is far worse in geometry and why a weight distribution hitch is required at some point to get that weight back onto the steer axle. I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with DOT and whatever expenses would be associated with it and why some states from what understand have rules that allow farmers to run some types of truck/trailer configurations without the CDL or the log book and so forth with distance restrictions etc in order for the farmer to move his own product to market and with extra weight carry ability. I farm in Alberta and we are forced to have a Class 1 ( CDL ) and abide by all the same weight laws as the commercial ventures ( my heaviest current truck/trailer grosses out at 105000 lb winter weights for example ) but don't have to run a log book or pay the insane price per year for the truck license like the commercial hauler, however we can NOT be for hire so its only our own grown goods or equipment that can be hauled. As far as I know ( unless rules have changed ), here in Alberta companies can run hot shot truck/trailer setups that will use a one ton or even a 5500 etc and whatever size goose neck and only require the basic passenger vehicle drivers license to legally drive it, as long as the truck does NOT have air brakes and the trailer does NOT have air brakes and that the truck can have no more than two axles. So as far as I know that just under 10000 lb GVW pickup theme is not a thing here, I imagine it can be ordered but would be pointless.
@@charlesb4267 That's great info and it definitely makes sense to me. It'd be nice if we had the same restriction where a CDLs required once you get into vehicles with air brakes.
@@JamesonsTractor Yes, and meanwhile you see 40 some foot long triple axle RV toyhauler fifth wheel trailers drive along past you without a care in the world as they give the DOT guy the finger !.
@@charlesb4267😂
Va if if trailer is 10001 lbs you have you are class a cdl. I can drive a class b truck but if it's over 10001lbs then I'm illegal. Regardless empty or not.
I grew up in VA. Transportation is much more regulated there than it is in TN. Most of those regulations I don't care for, although, you don't see nearly as many broke down cars on the side of the road in VA due to the annual inspections. So maybe some of the regulations are good?
So I’m guessing you are trying to stay out of needing a class A CDL for what you’re doing? If so here’s the class A CDL requirements:
1) 26,001 pounds and up GCWR AND the trailer has a 10,000 GVWR or higher rating. So for example, a 26,000 GVWR truck could tow a 9,999 GVWR trailer without a class A CDL.
Now since you’re doing this for a business having a standard GVWR gas Chevy would require you to have a medical examiner’s card (a CDL physical or some say DOT physical). That requirement comes into play when the trucks GVWR exceeds 10,000 pounds. So this is one of the reasons the 10,000 GVWR derated trucks like yours exist. So companies can have drivers drive the trucks without needing a medical card.
If you would have went with the standard GVWR you would have had to have gotten a medical card at the least unless you say you’re not for hire. Then it would be up to the state you live in and their specific requirements for GVWRs above 10,000. Some have none, some make you register differently and so on.
Now about your truck, you’re technically right in there’s no real difference in your derated truck compared to a standard GVWR truck. However, your rear axle is derated also to 6,390 pounds as compared to 6,600 pounds for a standard GVWR truck. I think it’s all just pencil whipping, but it is derated and once you start hitting upper 2,000 pound tongue weights you will almost certainly exceed the 6,390 axle rating.
And another thing about your truck is the GCWR is probably also derated, so I’m not even sure you would ever be able to hit that near 26,000 number. The standard GVWR trucks have a 26,000 GCWR cap. That was increased for the 2024 trucks by 2,000 pounds as compared to the 2020-2023s. Your towing sticker will list your ratings.
That’s all great info! You have great insight on this stuff. My GCWR as listed on the sticker on the truck is also 26,000lbs. I’m surprised they didn’t lower it with the GAWR and GVWR.
@@JamesonsTractor that’s good then. That’s what they rate the diesels that have a 10,000 GVWR too (26,000 GCWR) and that’s down from a standard GVWR diesel but I can’t remember exactly what the number is.
Ultimately I think to keep from needing a CDL and medical card a long with the DOT numbers and commercial insurance and registration you got the correct setup as is. Now it’s debatable if you should get commercial insurance and such but legally you could just blow by scales because you don’t meet the requirements per federal law. That of course is assuming that you are telling the DOT you’re not for hire and you’re doing this for private use.
If you do end up going full blown commercial usage, non CDL I’m pretty sure the DOT just measures axle weights and they make sure you’re not exceeding any of those along with what your tags are good for (big rig trucks are tagged for 80,000 pounds). I don’t think they really pay much attention to what the truck is rated for other than the axle ratings.
Admittedly I’m not sure about that though. I have a class A cdl for work but I’m not a ”real truck driver”. I work in the rail industry so all of our trucks exceed the 26,000 GVWR and the 26,000 GCWR along with the 10,000 GVWR trailer.
I can confidently say that CDL laws are purely a money racket and being a commercial operator cost you a lot more money than a private/not for hire operator does.
With out a CDL you can not pull over 10000 lbs
If your trailer has a gvwr of 10001 lbs you need a CDL
@@danthompson1467 that’s not true. His current setup does not require a CDL because it doesn’t meet the requirements.
The law is very simple: if your GCWR exceeds 26,000 pounds (he doesn’t) AND the trailer being towed exceeds 10,000 GVWR (his does but his combined weight doesn’t exceed 26,000).
😊I'm going to make this short, what? The intro is to long, get to the points.
Him talking how he’s going make short was already too long 😂
OH MY GOSH, is this all for TH-cam points or what. Before you get on here do Ur friggin homework and maybe know what you are talking about.
I'm just saying. From over 54 years of specialized trucking. Go learn something first.
Thanks for your input.