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Just a heads up: At 9:10, you mention that there is an ~30 PSI difference between Sea Level and space, but that is not correct. At sea level the atmosphere is 14 PSIA (absolute), but in space its -14 PSIG (Gauge). These are different methods of measuring pressure, so you cant just add them together like that unfortunately. absolute pressure is pressure compared to a vacuum, while gauge pressure is compared to sea level. Therefore, a pressure sensor that reads in absolute would read sea level pressure as 14PSIA, while a pressure sensor that reads gauge pressure would show zero PSIG. Basically, this means there is even less of a pressure difference that these habitats need to worry about, merely 14 PSI rather than 28 PSI
Yeah essentially if earth is 1 bar or 14.xx psi, then space is 0 bar/0 psi. A guage that read 0 psi on earth would read -14 psi in space only because it's zero point is set at a baseline of normal atmospheric pressure at earth sea level. 30 psi would such ass
I always envisioned a 3D-printed enclosure with an inflatable filling the inside. The natural regolith would give better radioactivity resistance and a hard exterior against weather and such, then the inflatable would provide serious control of the internal atmosphere. The best of both worlds.
TBH you need super thick walls/live underground to protect from radiation, particularly the galactic cosmetic rays. You need around ~5inches of al eq shielding to block a 1000MeV Fe Ion for example.
They could pile martian sand on top to protect it. The habitat surface could have pockets/segments on top to contain the sand and stop it from sliding off
Another issue would have to worry about is all your equipment and your domes would have to be heavy enough. It’s dirty enough and strong enough to withstand super strong winds and sandstorms..
The "above ground cave" you showed was part of a plan that included inflatable habitats. The "cave" was only intended to help shield the habitats and inhabitants from radiation and the weather. You even showed some of the inflatable habitats meant to go underneath it. Yeah, the 3D printing part will probably be harder than they make it out to be, but if the soil can be used how they imagine, even if it's toxic, it wouldn't matter for the "cave" plan you showed.
Or drill a tunnel, insert a pod at the entrance which contains an airlock and all the hardware. You then inflate/expand into the tunnel and move in. Provides all the protection you need plus you dont need heavy structure to support the habitat
@@CountryLifestyle2023 I suspect that at the end of the day there is going to be a combination of all of the above. There is going to be the need for overwatch/Gateway-type balloon-type facilities, while on the ground, underground habitations will be created for living, working, agriculture and the like. Not everyone will relish the prospect of living underground long-term, though, so there will also be above-ground facilities, as well, that will be created in various ways, including 3-D printing and, eventually, there will be domes over towns and cities.
Air locks won't work. You will need to use a shower lock to keep the dust and regulith from making it into the habitat and cause issues with the human body.
drill a tunnel on mars? do you have an idea of the size of a similar drill? a bit better a cave/tunnel where inflat bigger size of that staff. not a huge pressure, say 0.8 atm. some nuclear generator and as many moxie as possible to produce oxygen from Co2. One problem is to get hydrogen to make whater and the next is food. of course you plant vegetables but it's not easy. Mars regolite is almost poisoned, ostile to organic presence. must be treated for long. may be better to take some ground from the earth. Do you know making a 1000 m^3 of surface? plus you need an infrastructure to run a whater reciclyng system etc. Not one mission. it's years of work of in place workers. robots? let's see
What about if we look for caves on Mars which we can adapt to live in, during the early period? (the bootstrapping phase) Ideally, we could find a large cave to place our inflatable habitat inside of, for further protection from meteorites, etc. Later on, we can graduate to locally making more permanent facilities from concrete, metal, glass, etc.
Love the new editing, but why are you mixing units of measurement? Like you said the jumbo life hab was 60 ft in length and 40-50 meters in diameter. It whould be nice if we could have both, not half and half.
Great video. I've been wondering about just how big a LIFE module that took full advantage of the Starship payload capacity could get so that's pretty amazing. It's pretty much a Bigelow B2200 size. One of the things that Bigelow did before its demise was a press event where it had mocked-up the interior of a B2200 and there are videos on TH-cam of people walking around inside that mock-up. It was mostly a big empty space rather than being split up into separate levels but the sense of scale was impressive. The jumbo LIFE module is exciting for orbital space stations but for a surface habitat I see one big issue that would need to be resolved. If it's carried to the surface of Mars by a Starship landing vertically then how do you get a hab that size down from the payload bay to the surface of Mars? You couldn't just inflate it in place because it would be incredibly top-heavy and at a 40-50 metre diameter wouldn't be at all stable and if the module is making use of the whole payload space then there wouldn't be space for a crane to lower it down. I'm sure some clever engineers can come up with a variety of clever solutions. Maybe land a crane in a separate Starship that once assembled on the ground could unload the hab module? That might actually be useful beyond the habs so that future cargo-only Starships wouldn't need to allocate any payload space and mass to a crane to unload their cargo because they would know that there was a crane on the surface that could do that unloading for them. Whatever the solution it's definitely an issue that would need to be addressed.
The 3D printing will still be very important. Sure the inflatable habitations is practical to start with. However for bulk storage for vehicles and other large equipment, 3D printed buildings should be good for protection from dust storms, etc. Infrastructure will needs to be built - 3D print it. Later a combination of printed walls, with inflated inners could be a good option more long term pressurized buildings. High wall to protect the settlement from the large spider-like bug attacks - 3D print it.
Another interesting concept I saw for mars habitats was cement mix embedded in the lining of the inflatable habitat, so you inflate it, then soak it down in water. Once it's hardened, you don't need to worry about it collapsing if pressure is lost.
@@catprog Well the same way you get the habitat at first, you bring it with you. There are ways to harvest water from mars, but you need the habitats before you could set up something like that.
I would be less worried about meteorites piercing the fabric than meteorites piercing the occupants. I would feel after underground. (Perhaps tunneled into Olympus Mons?) Underground also solves the radiation problem. Still, it is interesting to see other options.
It wouldn't come to that. The inflatable habitats will be even safer from meteorites than the traditional ones. Besides, creating underground habitats would have too many unknown variables and requires too much engineering. Taking cost and mission complexity into account, I think that shipping the habitats whole cloth will be the only viable option.
We had an Arctic blast hit us this past winter and the temperature got so ridiculously low I like -20 like they say it is on Mars in those caves and I'm thinking no I'm good I really don't want this to be the weather I live in at all times so y'all have fun on Mars I'll watch from here
Definitely would like to see more about Bigelow. He's a crazy character who owned Skinwalker Ranch and did lot's of other fringe science with his group. The inflatables are a great idea they saw through to maturation but then he shuttered the company right when the module went live on the ISS just seemed odd to me.
Think about this, he spent all of that time studying Skinwalker Ranch for the government, and now he chooses to focus on life after death. You’ve got to ask yourself what has he found out that leads him in that direction? It’s interesting that’s for sure.
There were several misconceptions commonly published in that time period. Bigelow was not interested in running space hotels. He corrected reporters constantly but lazy writers chose to instead stick with their conclusion jumping that because he owned hotels on Earth he wanted to run space hotels. What he wanted to do was BUILD space HABITATS, buy launches, and sell the facilities to the operators. The target market was countries that wanted their own SCIENCE and manufacturing capability; Brazil, Canada, Japan, Oceania, African coalitions, and of course individual European countries. Multinational mega corps were also obvious potential customers but that made everyone nervous so he stopped talking about them as customers. The idea was to be ready when launch services finally became available. That didn't happen, he ran out of time and money. He always wore a lapel pin depicting an ET. In fact the corporate logo was an ET. He had a "profound encounter experience" in his youth. He was super secretive in all his activities.
It looks like the rewards he's posting are for evidence for the survival of consciousness after death, likely due to his own health challenges and the death of his son but it looks like he's gearing for paranormal evidence. I believe he should focus on just recording journals and videos of his life electronically, have his brain sliced at 20 micron wafers and digitally photographed in high resolution after his death so that his neural network could be digitally preserved for research and leave a foundation to fund research into brain simulation on computers and to fund the server farms needed. With cryogenics, you have one chance of being revived and there will be many irreversible failed attempts to develop the knowledge needed to repair the damage from both the freezing and damage but a digital record of your neural synapses and neural network can be backed up and preserved forever allowing for multiple attempts of revival as you can always revert back to a basis. Of course just being able to simulate your neural networks does not mean the neural network would be as aware of your memories as you are so journals and videos and functional MRI scan records would be needed to try to bring the simulation of you as close to you as possible. It's basically the only real hard science approach that we currently have to try and have our consciousness survive after death. Note, if living only as a simulation in a virtual environment is not what you want, remember there is also the possibility of the simulation remotely operating an android avatar or of being bioprinted into a new biologic individual as science progresses, it's more about our digital records, backups and archives being the only way to preserve as much information as possible till science has progressed.
An inflatable habitat covered with regolith seems like the simplest approach. An automated rover can drive around the area and scrape the surface to accumulate regolith. Whether or not it’s sintered with a polymer and it can simply be piled or pushed on top of an inflatable module. This would proved radiation and micrometeorite protection.
I think this is a great idea for an intial settlement. But long term, underground might be better. Even with the required work in it. Can create massive caverns and in time provide breathable air underground and use the soil dug for buildings. Maybe have a controlled day and night
@@CountryLifestyle2023 You Mean with Thin, Sturdy, Strechy and Inflatable Baloons? Yeah I guess you Could do that. But why DO you think that Inflatable Habs in Caves are Better than Just Inflatable Habs?
Recently, Sierra Space did a full scale burst test where they pressurized their test article to more than 70 PSI before it burst. This is higher than any rigid structure would be designed for. The test article also had rigid ports for installing windows or connecting different modules.
You can live off my fecal matter produced from eating nothing but blueberries and filet mignon. It'll be a mess but also nutritious for you and on mars... food is probably hard to come by so you should take what you can get son.
I had read that the woven polymer was as effective at blocking radiation as typical spacecraft material. The greatest advantage is its compacted volume on lift-off compared to the huge gain in living area upon deployment. If the Moon mission is successful, it could be a testing ground for this system.
love your videos like usual but the switching between metric and imperial is a little bit confusing for me at times, aside from that very informative and entertaining video buddy appreciate it
Lots of high winds and flying dust and rocks during storms on Mars. Angle the walls to deflect rocks and wind up. Underground bunkers would be smart for emergencies and for supply storage. Machine O2 and h2o generation is a must.
The Martian was awesome. Both the book and the movie. But with the low atmospheric density at the nominal surface of Mars, the most fierce winds would have trouble making a wind sock move. And yeah - plan to make O2, and methane from the trace H20 and plentiful CO2 in the atmosphere.
For planetary habitats, it seems like the best thing to do is *both* . Use 3D printing to build a shell designed to hold the inflatable habitat inside. They were already talking about putting an internal bulkhead or barrier between the living space and the 3D printed shell, for exactly the same reasons discussed. Integrate the solutions.
The best thing to do is NEITHER!!! The notion of trusting your life to a 3D printed mud hut full of POROSITY is a great way to die. An anal sphincter can hold air in better than that. I don't know if you have ever owned a 3D printer, but there are 1001 things that constantly go wrong. All it takes is one rock to get past screen, one electrical malfunction, one failed part and that entire idea is down the toilet; because you have no one there to fix it. I don't feel that I have to go into great detail of how stupid a balloon in space is, but yes you will die when it pops. Titan Aerodynamic Engineering has developed the only solution to any kind of ground based habitat and they have in their R&D a far superior space station. THINK PEOPLE!
Pretty sure the option that makes most sense is to use the starships. There will be dozens just sitting there from delivering cargo before we arrive. Link them all together.
I’m sorry to hear that the Bigelow industry collapsed. I wish somebody would turn around by the company. I know this won’t be the last aerospace company to collapse.
Problem is you need a product that makes money while developing the future products. SpaceX exemplifies this with its space transportation side (Falcon 9) and future (Starship).
Sierra has bought all Bigelows intellectual property and is carrying on his commitment. I was enthusiastic for his approach going way back. Very happy to see it continue. Also, Sierra's Tenacity Spaceplane will be a huge leap in space possibilities.
You could store the colonies water supply in the walls of the habitat, so using them as both storage container and radiation protection. In space the walls could grow to be quite thick (like a metre or more) thus offering a good degree of micro-meteorite protection to the crew inside. The space habitats could source their water from carbonaceous chondrite meteors, there would be no need to launch hundreds of tons of water from the planetary surfaces just harvest it from the rocks that litter the solar system...
Frozen water as a building material and radiation shielding has been proposed in a NASA competition and was the winning tender but remember water ice sublimates in the low pressures of the Martian atmosphere which is why we only find Martian water underground and not on the surface. It isn't as simple as you're thinking. Keep in mind that hydrogen rich shielding material such as water are only considered good radiation shielding for their unit mass. If you are to use in-situ materials as radiation shielding, packed regolith (dirt) is still a much better radiation shield than water or water ice for a stationary structure. Now lining the interior walls of a lunar rover with bags of human excrement has been proposed for radiation shielding but again that's only because hydrogen rich compounds have good shielding to weight, not just better shielding over other materials. Having to launch water into space is what makes water a good radiation shielding material for a spaceship, for a stationary planetary structure, packed dirt or just being underground is still much better. Water is also now believed to be both plentiful and rather shallowly buried on Mars, there's no need to bring water from chondrite asteroids and as Mars has had volcanism as recently as two million years ago, water could be extracted from a Martian volcanoes more easily than bringing it from distant asteroids. Note that both water from asteroids and volcanoes are ammonia water mixtures and the ammonia is where Earth got it's nitrogen atmosphere from by photolysis of the ammonia by sunlight over millions of years, we can't quite wait for solar photolysis by the Sun but electrolysis via say an electric arc can be scaled up to extract nitrogen for our habitats but the ground water cycle of Mars has already lost it's ammonia to the atmosphere of which the hydrogen and nitrogen have already been dispersed by the solar winds and the lack of geomagnetic shielding against the solar wind. Besides, we still don't know if the Martian ground water couldn't be flowed to you through a well so strip mining may not be necessary, we do know that there are some Rick features that are the result of temporarily flowing water so Martian ground water can be a lot easier than you are suggesting and really, gathering water from a lot of disparate and widely spread out asteroids and bringing them safely to the surface of Mars is also no easy task.
I was going to comment on the Error about the pressure differential between standard atmospheric pressure (1 bar) and the vacuum of space until i noticed that is was already covered by a very nicely written comment!!!..
What would keep a inflatable habitat from blowing around like a big beach ball in the high martian wind storm. Or cut to shreds in those high wind and bits of rock . No to mention micro meteors.
Air pressure on Mars is so low that typhoon speed winds feel like just a gentle breeze. That's why rovers can trundle around for years powered just by flimsy solar panels.
I totally agree with you. I guess they would need to be anchored firmly underground. Drilling down through rock; however, the attachment to the actual bubble is the problem. How d'you stop it tearing, as you say ??.🧐☕
Quick answer...no they are not! Cosmic radiation, micrometeorites, dust, as inside pressure, are some of the issues. The best and safer way to have a base to Humans in Mars, it's underground bunkers.
Presumably, the inflatable structures would be buried by packed regolith to provide the micro-meteorite and radiation shielding preferably by tele-operated drone bulldozers before any occupant arrives. About two to three feet of packed regolith should reduce radiation by a factor of a thousand though it would take 40 feet to provide the same shielding as Earth's atmosphere. Remember the first habitats are about building them remotely before occupants arrive and need to be safely shielded. Later, more complex and larger habitats are possible as the work force would have a safe shielded refuge when needed. The inflatable structures are just as a form and a seal against the toxic chemicals and perhaps biology of the in-situ materials which would likely be regolith but could also be plastics as carbon monoxide could be processed from the atmosphere and hydrogen could be processed from the water we've found in the ground near the surface and a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas can synthesize any linear hydrocarbon in Fischer tropsch synthesis (which is how we make plastic grocery bags, milk and soda bottles). Indeed, I would expect that eventually the structures would be regolith binded by synthetic plastics as such could be extruded out in a 3d printing process but a plastic internal liner exported from Earth would still be needed to ensure a safe shield from the chemicals in the regolith and any indigenous biology that we do not know of. However, the first habitats would likely just be buried by bull dozed regolith that's been packed down (perhaps with a plastic outer liner or binder to prevent erosion by winds). We even create concrete dome structures on Earth by inflating a structure and spraying it with concrete. The inflatable habitats on Mars would be similar, it wouldn't just be the inflatable structures by themselves. Even if we were to build underground habitats as you propose, which would likely require workers to do so, we would have to line the interior surfaces to hold the pressures and prevent intrusion by harmful chemicals. Remember that Biosphere 2's initial problems were partially traced to the exposed concrete reacting with the atmosphere in the habitat. Even the underground facilities you are proposing would likely require an Earth exported inflatable structure to line the habitat at least till infrastructure is established on Mars to form a safe sealing barrier.
The nouveau Nephlilim pharisee Pharoahs aren't going to mars. They are getting off the planet before eclipsing the nucleus of our Sun's Oort cloud magnetosphere for the next millennium RESETS the planet as in the he days of Noah.
2 ways to move your center gravity : 1 is vortex right hand rule 2 use pressure and vacuum to change center if gravity then universe attraction follow our center if gravity and attraction increase if closer or decrease if further
The problem with inflatable domes for habitats is a very risky means of life support because they’re in highly known to tear rip puncture, etc. so you would have to come up with the material that’s much more stronger and reliable so it would be tear proof and puncture proof, it will also have to be well insulated Because of the temperatures on Mars.
Before Bigelow, there was me. I designed inflatable space habitats in college AutoCAD, c1997. Before me, there was NASA and their precursor in the '50s. 😂😂 You can always 3D print a structure around the inflatables later.
Cool video. I always thought they needed to put a colony on the moon to learn the basics before going as far as Mars. Inflatable habitats opens up many opportunities to make such a space station possible.
Could also erect some snow fences type structures around it so wind blown particles are deposited around and over the dome. Let the wind do the work for you lol.
Mr Bigelow should have improved his habitats since then; Perhaps he could have constructed a revolving module for centrifugal gravity, which the ISS never had (which would also be better for plant growth etc). Both would be essential for manned Mars missions.
Build some test habitats out by death valley, have people live in them like on mars, growing food, recycling, living on vary little resupplys, after 2 years, we can get an idea of how it's going to work out..
I was completely sceptical, but this..gives me a very different view on the subject. --A thought..once inflated, they could be coated with the local sand, as added protection from the sun and other radiation sources. Solidified..protection, even from the local weather.
Your description statement is incorrect they already analyze the regular for Mars That's the reason why they have test samples inside a civility and then they construct inside this facility. That's how they made the idea of using regular to print material. They simulated the soil or ground of that planet inside of control location.
Shining glass domes? They can be mesh. Using the Ion engine concept where atmosphere is pulled from the outside to the inside using a 20KV potential between two mesh layers. Mars atmosphere at earth atmospheric pressures inside the mesh dome.
I'm still wondering about Solar Flares and the Storms on Mars. Having a inflateable habitat in the orbit is one thing, but on Mars Surface? Not to mention the extrem fine radioactive dust. Or the lack of power generation with solar panels. I think many people still don't know how incredible deadly the Mars really is. Hiding underground would be probably the best option. But then you lack of sunlight, maybe causing depressions and other problems over long term.
I've worked with Vectran in electrical cable manufacturing. It is extremely strong! However in this application the question is how radiation shielding will be achieved. 🤷♂
Do we know the long-term effects of living in an atmosphere without nitrogen? Providing a nitrogen-bearing atmosphere poses major practical difficulties, whether on Mars or in free space. No nitrogen in the air, no nitrogen in the blood. Does that change anything?
The first habs on Mars will be dug by Prufrock 2. The tunnels may be lined with linked, inflatable habs and the ends capped with airlocks. Radiation shielding is within the realm of possibility, but for living on Mars? Day to day, growing food and sleeping and exercising? The bulk of time spent will have to be underground. Prufrock can develop rover tunnels to different locations for pop-up exploration, and it can be delivered on one of the first Starships. /2cents. I could be wrong.
13:19 So, module that is 60 Feet in length and 40-50 Meters in diameter .. how many usable cubic hand-spans it gives? Mixing measurement units (esp. in space related stuff) has already produced interesting results ..
I thought I noticed some vague hand waving at the whole 'radiation' point. I'd really like to see some realistic numbers there before I sign up to live in a Mars tent.
For a science fiction story I'm thinking about, I like the idea of a spacecraft that essentially has a water reservoir surrounding the crew area that provides potable water and a radiation shield.
Well good news that's like an actual proposal for these things, some of the ideas use heavy water so it would only be potable if diluted and used sparingly (if it's less than like 10% of your water it works the same as water effectively but more than that and it slows things down too much) but others use normal water or even a premixed water that's more d2o than standard but still safe levels
how bout an inflatable hab that comes with an injectable liquid foam that once mixed with a catalyst expands an hardens so that way the inflatable part acts as a mold/outer shell.
The answer, as always, will be a mix or a hybrid of all system. Probably the 3D printing for the "hard exterior shell" and an inflatable system for "internal living space". We will also leverage cave whenever we encounter one. The "real" issue is the complexity of having to shield the "habitat" from Radiation + external "hazards" and having an efficient internal system for pressurization & climate control. So my guess is the final system will have a combination of all concept.
Awesome video, very informative. Good job guys 👍. Would love to see an extended video on Bigelow. Who knew twenty years ago that we would be grateful for crazy billionaires who dare to dream.
Space in space can and will be spacious. You’ll find me in the galley or holodeck most of the time. I was saddened / disappointed when Bigelow disappeared from the scene. Encouraging to see Sierra pick up the inflatable concept and run with it. The long trip to mars needn’t be cramped quarters. A rigid truss with a bunch of inflatables.
We're testing out a new editing style for the videos today! Let us know what you think of the intro and if you would like to see more videos in this style.
We appreciate your feedback as we try and make the most entertaining and informative videos we can for you.
I love it!
I would like to see more videos in that style with higher production values.
Pleeeeease
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Just a heads up: At 9:10, you mention that there is an ~30 PSI difference between Sea Level and space, but that is not correct. At sea level the atmosphere is 14 PSIA (absolute), but in space its -14 PSIG (Gauge). These are different methods of measuring pressure, so you cant just add them together like that unfortunately. absolute pressure is pressure compared to a vacuum, while gauge pressure is compared to sea level. Therefore, a pressure sensor that reads in absolute would read sea level pressure as 14PSIA, while a pressure sensor that reads gauge pressure would show zero PSIG.
Basically, this means there is even less of a pressure difference that these habitats need to worry about, merely 14 PSI rather than 28 PSI
Thank you, I noticed that too and was hoping someone would explain it further.
Yes, indeed.
What the hell is minus pressure? No pressure is zero. I don’t get it.
Yeah essentially if earth is 1 bar or 14.xx psi, then space is 0 bar/0 psi. A guage that read 0 psi on earth would read -14 psi in space only because it's zero point is set at a baseline of normal atmospheric pressure at earth sea level. 30 psi would such ass
LOL just goes to show you the actual knowledge of TH-cam talking heads. 28 psi lmao. Capable literally of nothing except regurgitating
I always envisioned a 3D-printed enclosure with an inflatable filling the inside. The natural regolith would give better radioactivity resistance and a hard exterior against weather and such, then the inflatable would provide serious control of the internal atmosphere. The best of both worlds.
Smart idea
We want a doc about bigelow.
This was really well done. The pacing and content of the B-roll was excellent. And you sold me. You solved a lot of problems.
Agree
Great video. I thought the graphics were really good and great content as always. I always love to see your new video. Sending my appreciation x
TBH you need super thick walls/live underground to protect from radiation, particularly the galactic cosmetic rays. You need around ~5inches of al eq shielding to block a 1000MeV Fe Ion for example.
Correct. Roughly 1 meter of rock, or 8 meters of water I believe. Inflatable habitats won't do outside of low Earth orbit.
They could pile martian sand on top to protect it. The habitat surface could have pockets/segments on top to contain the sand and stop it from sliding off
Another issue would have to worry about is all your equipment and your domes would have to be heavy enough. It’s dirty enough and strong enough to withstand super strong winds and sandstorms..
The "above ground cave" you showed was part of a plan that included inflatable habitats. The "cave" was only intended to help shield the habitats and inhabitants from radiation and the weather. You even showed some of the inflatable habitats meant to go underneath it. Yeah, the 3D printing part will probably be harder than they make it out to be, but if the soil can be used how they imagine, even if it's toxic, it wouldn't matter for the "cave" plan you showed.
Or drill a tunnel, insert a pod at the entrance which contains an airlock and all the hardware. You then inflate/expand into the tunnel and move in. Provides all the protection you need plus you dont need heavy structure to support the habitat
100% agree. I see underground as a more viable option
@@CountryLifestyle2023 I suspect that at the end of the day there is going to be a combination of all of the above. There is going to be the need for overwatch/Gateway-type balloon-type facilities, while on the ground, underground habitations will be created for living, working, agriculture and the like. Not everyone will relish the prospect of living underground long-term, though, so there will also be above-ground facilities, as well, that will be created in various ways, including 3-D printing and, eventually, there will be domes over towns and cities.
@Norman Munroe agreed! First gotta land, than everything else comes
Air locks won't work. You will need to use a shower lock to keep the dust and regulith from making it into the habitat and cause issues with the human body.
drill a tunnel on mars? do you have an idea of the size of a similar drill? a bit better a cave/tunnel where inflat bigger size of that staff. not a huge pressure, say 0.8 atm. some nuclear generator and as many moxie as possible to produce oxygen from Co2. One problem is to get hydrogen to make whater and the next is food. of course you plant vegetables but it's not easy. Mars regolite is almost poisoned, ostile to organic presence. must be treated for long. may be better to take some ground from the earth. Do you know making a 1000 m^3 of surface? plus you need an infrastructure to run a whater reciclyng system etc. Not one mission. it's years of work of in place workers. robots? let's see
What about if we look for caves on Mars which we can adapt to live in, during the early period? (the bootstrapping phase)
Ideally, we could find a large cave to place our inflatable habitat inside of, for further protection from meteorites, etc.
Later on, we can graduate to locally making more permanent facilities from concrete, metal, glass, etc.
I like that idea. But think underground overall is a good idea..can create own ecosystems, light control, maybe fill with air
How are you going to Mars when you can't get past the firmament?
@@jmar665 Do you think that will be a perpetually unsolvable problem?
@@jmar665 You don't know what a firmament is.
@@jmar665 we have been to the moon buddy....
Love the new editing, but why are you mixing units of measurement? Like you said the jumbo life hab was 60 ft in length and 40-50 meters in diameter. It whould be nice if we could have both, not half and half.
I'd definitely watch a Robert Bigelow video. Make one please!
Heaven yeah
Bump
Do it
Isn't Robert Bigelow on one of those "sex offender" lists though son?
@jennyanydots2389 I wouldn't doubt it, rich people get away with most everything.
I love this channel. There's always something to watch and videos posted very regularly.
great video! i’m extremely excited for a mars colony!
Why? What is exciting about it?
Very good presentation, and engineering
I've been wondering what happened to Bigelow Space. Thanks. Glad the balloon concept really works.
That was one of the best presentations I've seen. Totally agree that inflatables are the way to go.
Going to subscribe. Thanks.
Interesting comments.
Great video. I've been wondering about just how big a LIFE module that took full advantage of the Starship payload capacity could get so that's pretty amazing. It's pretty much a Bigelow B2200 size. One of the things that Bigelow did before its demise was a press event where it had mocked-up the interior of a B2200 and there are videos on TH-cam of people walking around inside that mock-up. It was mostly a big empty space rather than being split up into separate levels but the sense of scale was impressive.
The jumbo LIFE module is exciting for orbital space stations but for a surface habitat I see one big issue that would need to be resolved. If it's carried to the surface of Mars by a Starship landing vertically then how do you get a hab that size down from the payload bay to the surface of Mars? You couldn't just inflate it in place because it would be incredibly top-heavy and at a 40-50 metre diameter wouldn't be at all stable and if the module is making use of the whole payload space then there wouldn't be space for a crane to lower it down. I'm sure some clever engineers can come up with a variety of clever solutions. Maybe land a crane in a separate Starship that once assembled on the ground could unload the hab module? That might actually be useful beyond the habs so that future cargo-only Starships wouldn't need to allocate any payload space and mass to a crane to unload their cargo because they would know that there was a crane on the surface that could do that unloading for them.
Whatever the solution it's definitely an issue that would need to be addressed.
was it not the intension to fill the inflatables with metallic foam, hence structurally self supporting.
Well put together information 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
The 3D printing will still be very important. Sure the inflatable habitations is practical to start with. However for bulk storage for vehicles and other large equipment, 3D printed buildings should be good for protection from dust storms, etc. Infrastructure will needs to be built - 3D print it. Later a combination of printed walls, with inflated inners could be a good option more long term pressurized buildings. High wall to protect the settlement from the large spider-like bug attacks - 3D print it.
Watching your videos makes me glad people are interested in space travel again.
Another interesting concept I saw for mars habitats was cement mix embedded in the lining of the inflatable habitat, so you inflate it, then soak it down in water. Once it's hardened, you don't need to worry about it collapsing if pressure is lost.
How do you get the water though.
@@catprog There is water underneath mars' surface.
@@JR-nv4td I am more talking about transporting the water.
@@catprog Well the same way you get the habitat at first, you bring it with you. There are ways to harvest water from mars, but you need the habitats before you could set up something like that.
@@BeastofBourdon Exactly taking water to build a strcture is a lot more mass.
Build in the Valley of the mariner as well, good spot to set up a colony.
I would be less worried about meteorites piercing the fabric than meteorites piercing the occupants. I would feel after underground. (Perhaps tunneled into Olympus Mons?) Underground also solves the radiation problem. Still, it is interesting to see other options.
It wouldn't come to that. The inflatable habitats will be even safer from meteorites than the traditional ones. Besides, creating underground habitats would have too many unknown variables and requires too much engineering. Taking cost and mission complexity into account, I think that shipping the habitats whole cloth will be the only viable option.
We had an Arctic blast hit us this past winter and the temperature got so ridiculously low I like -20 like they say it is on Mars in those caves and I'm thinking no I'm good I really don't want this to be the weather I live in at all times so y'all have fun on Mars I'll watch from here
Definitely would like to see more about Bigelow. He's a crazy character who owned Skinwalker Ranch and did lot's of other fringe science with his group. The inflatables are a great idea they saw through to maturation but then he shuttered the company right when the module went live on the ISS just seemed odd to me.
Think about this, he spent all of that time studying Skinwalker Ranch for the government, and now he chooses to focus on life after death. You’ve got to ask yourself what has he found out that leads him in that direction? It’s interesting that’s for sure.
I like the way you think
There were several misconceptions commonly published in that time period.
Bigelow was not interested in running space hotels. He corrected reporters constantly but lazy writers chose to instead stick with their conclusion jumping that because he owned hotels on Earth he wanted to run space hotels.
What he wanted to do was BUILD space HABITATS, buy launches, and sell the facilities to the operators. The target market was countries that wanted their own SCIENCE and manufacturing capability; Brazil, Canada, Japan, Oceania, African coalitions, and of course individual European countries. Multinational mega corps were also obvious potential customers but that made everyone nervous so he stopped talking about them as customers.
The idea was to be ready when launch services finally became available. That didn't happen, he ran out of time and money.
He always wore a lapel pin depicting an ET. In fact the corporate logo was an ET. He had a "profound encounter experience" in his youth. He was super secretive in all his activities.
It looks like the rewards he's posting are for evidence for the survival of consciousness after death, likely due to his own health challenges and the death of his son but it looks like he's gearing for paranormal evidence. I believe he should focus on just recording journals and videos of his life electronically, have his brain sliced at 20 micron wafers and digitally photographed in high resolution after his death so that his neural network could be digitally preserved for research and leave a foundation to fund research into brain simulation on computers and to fund the server farms needed. With cryogenics, you have one chance of being revived and there will be many irreversible failed attempts to develop the knowledge needed to repair the damage from both the freezing and damage but a digital record of your neural synapses and neural network can be backed up and preserved forever allowing for multiple attempts of revival as you can always revert back to a basis. Of course just being able to simulate your neural networks does not mean the neural network would be as aware of your memories as you are so journals and videos and functional MRI scan records would be needed to try to bring the simulation of you as close to you as possible. It's basically the only real hard science approach that we currently have to try and have our consciousness survive after death.
Note, if living only as a simulation in a virtual environment is not what you want, remember there is also the possibility of the simulation remotely operating an android avatar or of being bioprinted into a new biologic individual as science progresses, it's more about our digital records, backups and archives being the only way to preserve as much information as possible till science has progressed.
great video, sure sign me up I want to go to mars 😊🎉🎉❤❤
An inflatable habitat covered with regolith seems like the simplest approach. An automated rover can drive around the area and scrape the surface to accumulate regolith. Whether or not it’s sintered with a polymer and it can simply be piled or pushed on top of an inflatable module. This would proved radiation and micrometeorite protection.
I think this is a great idea for an intial settlement.
But long term, underground might be better. Even with the required work in it.
Can create massive caverns and in time provide breathable air underground and use the soil dug for buildings. Maybe have a controlled day and night
@@CountryLifestyle2023But didn't he Say that Martian Regolith is Toxic to Humans?
@@nukl3argam3r38 We don't know, we have never examined it.
Plus you can always cover it, or something along those lines
@@CountryLifestyle2023 You Mean with Thin, Sturdy, Strechy and Inflatable Baloons? Yeah I guess you Could do that.
But why DO you think that Inflatable Habs in Caves are Better than Just Inflatable Habs?
@@nukl3argam3r38 Nope that's not what I meant, but what ever works to reinforce the cave walls and protect vs toxins
Recently, Sierra Space did a full scale burst test where they pressurized their test article to more than 70 PSI before it burst. This is higher than any rigid structure would be designed for. The test article also had rigid ports for installing windows or connecting different modules.
How about all three. Most of the habitat underground. Above ground bits have 3d printed shells. Both with inflated interiors.
You can live off my fecal matter produced from eating nothing but blueberries and filet mignon. It'll be a mess but also nutritious for you and on mars... food is probably hard to come by so you should take what you can get son.
I had read that the woven polymer was as effective at blocking radiation as typical spacecraft material. The greatest advantage is its compacted volume on lift-off compared to the huge gain in living area upon deployment. If the Moon mission is successful, it could be a testing ground for this system.
love your videos like usual but the switching between metric and imperial is a little bit confusing for me at times, aside from that very informative and entertaining video buddy appreciate it
Totally agree. One suggestion- show one on screen and the other in audio.
I agree, metric sucks.
1 meter = 3 feet
Lots of high winds and flying dust and rocks during storms on Mars. Angle the walls to deflect rocks and wind up. Underground bunkers would be smart for emergencies and for supply storage. Machine O2 and h2o generation is a must.
The Martian was awesome. Both the book and the movie.
But with the low atmospheric density at the nominal surface of Mars, the most fierce winds would have trouble making a wind sock move.
And yeah - plan to make O2, and methane from the trace H20 and plentiful CO2 in the atmosphere.
For planetary habitats, it seems like the best thing to do is *both* .
Use 3D printing to build a shell designed to hold the inflatable habitat inside.
They were already talking about putting an internal bulkhead or barrier between the living space and the 3D printed shell, for exactly the same reasons discussed.
Integrate the solutions.
Yup
The best thing to do is NEITHER!!! The notion of trusting your life to a 3D printed mud hut full of POROSITY is a great way to die. An anal sphincter can hold air in better than that. I don't know if you have ever owned a 3D printer, but there are 1001 things that constantly go wrong. All it takes is one rock to get past screen, one electrical malfunction, one failed part and that entire idea is down the toilet; because you have no one there to fix it. I don't feel that I have to go into great detail of how stupid a balloon in space is, but yes you will die when it pops. Titan Aerodynamic Engineering has developed the only solution to any kind of ground based habitat and they have in their R&D a far superior space station. THINK PEOPLE!
Pretty sure the option that makes most sense is to use the starships. There will be dozens just sitting there from delivering cargo before we arrive. Link them all together.
I’m sorry to hear that the Bigelow industry collapsed. I wish somebody would turn around by the company. I know this won’t be the last aerospace company to collapse.
Problem is you need a product that makes money while developing the future products. SpaceX exemplifies this with its space transportation side (Falcon 9) and future (Starship).
Sierra has bought all Bigelows intellectual property and is carrying on his commitment. I was enthusiastic for his approach going way back. Very happy to see it continue. Also, Sierra's Tenacity Spaceplane will be a huge leap in space possibilities.
I Agree With You. Interesting To Note, merci.
You could store the colonies water supply in the walls of the habitat, so using them as both storage container and radiation protection. In space the walls could grow to be quite thick (like a metre or more) thus offering a good degree of micro-meteorite protection to the crew inside. The space habitats could source their water from carbonaceous chondrite meteors, there would be no need to launch hundreds of tons of water from the planetary surfaces just harvest it from the rocks that litter the solar system...
Frozen water as a building material and radiation shielding has been proposed in a NASA competition and was the winning tender but remember water ice sublimates in the low pressures of the Martian atmosphere which is why we only find Martian water underground and not on the surface. It isn't as simple as you're thinking.
Keep in mind that hydrogen rich shielding material such as water are only considered good radiation shielding for their unit mass. If you are to use in-situ materials as radiation shielding, packed regolith (dirt) is still a much better radiation shield than water or water ice for a stationary structure. Now lining the interior walls of a lunar rover with bags of human excrement has been proposed for radiation shielding but again that's only because hydrogen rich compounds have good shielding to weight, not just better shielding over other materials. Having to launch water into space is what makes water a good radiation shielding material for a spaceship, for a stationary planetary structure, packed dirt or just being underground is still much better.
Water is also now believed to be both plentiful and rather shallowly buried on Mars, there's no need to bring water from chondrite asteroids and as Mars has had volcanism as recently as two million years ago, water could be extracted from a Martian volcanoes more easily than bringing it from distant asteroids. Note that both water from asteroids and volcanoes are ammonia water mixtures and the ammonia is where Earth got it's nitrogen atmosphere from by photolysis of the ammonia by sunlight over millions of years, we can't quite wait for solar photolysis by the Sun but electrolysis via say an electric arc can be scaled up to extract nitrogen for our habitats but the ground water cycle of Mars has already lost it's ammonia to the atmosphere of which the hydrogen and nitrogen have already been dispersed by the solar winds and the lack of geomagnetic shielding against the solar wind.
Besides, we still don't know if the Martian ground water couldn't be flowed to you through a well so strip mining may not be necessary, we do know that there are some Rick features that are the result of temporarily flowing water so Martian ground water can be a lot easier than you are suggesting and really, gathering water from a lot of disparate and widely spread out asteroids and bringing them safely to the surface of Mars is also no easy task.
Yes, please make a documentary about Bigelow.
I think inflatable habs initially, and then using 3D printing once a base is established makes the most sense.
I was going to comment on the Error about the pressure differential between standard atmospheric pressure (1 bar) and the vacuum of space until i noticed that is was already covered by a very nicely written comment!!!..
What would keep a inflatable habitat from blowing around like a big beach ball in the high martian wind storm. Or cut to shreds in those high wind and bits of rock . No to mention micro meteors.
Air pressure on Mars is so low that typhoon speed winds feel like just a gentle breeze. That's why rovers can trundle around for years powered just by flimsy solar panels.
I totally agree with you. I guess they would need to be anchored firmly underground. Drilling down through rock; however, the attachment to the actual bubble is the problem. How d'you stop it tearing, as you say ??.🧐☕
Thank you video brilliant compliment
Quick answer...no they are not! Cosmic radiation, micrometeorites, dust, as inside pressure, are some of the issues. The best and safer way to have a base to Humans in Mars, it's underground bunkers.
I.e. The Boring Company.
Bunkers? How do you figure on pressurizing a bunker?
Did you even listen to the whole video? Or watch it at all?
Like you will know😂😂😂
Presumably, the inflatable structures would be buried by packed regolith to provide the micro-meteorite and radiation shielding preferably by tele-operated drone bulldozers before any occupant arrives. About two to three feet of packed regolith should reduce radiation by a factor of a thousand though it would take 40 feet to provide the same shielding as Earth's atmosphere. Remember the first habitats are about building them remotely before occupants arrive and need to be safely shielded. Later, more complex and larger habitats are possible as the work force would have a safe shielded refuge when needed.
The inflatable structures are just as a form and a seal against the toxic chemicals and perhaps biology of the in-situ materials which would likely be regolith but could also be plastics as carbon monoxide could be processed from the atmosphere and hydrogen could be processed from the water we've found in the ground near the surface and a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas can synthesize any linear hydrocarbon in Fischer tropsch synthesis (which is how we make plastic grocery bags, milk and soda bottles). Indeed, I would expect that eventually the structures would be regolith binded by synthetic plastics as such could be extruded out in a 3d printing process but a plastic internal liner exported from Earth would still be needed to ensure a safe shield from the chemicals in the regolith and any indigenous biology that we do not know of. However, the first habitats would likely just be buried by bull dozed regolith that's been packed down (perhaps with a plastic outer liner or binder to prevent erosion by winds).
We even create concrete dome structures on Earth by inflating a structure and spraying it with concrete. The inflatable habitats on Mars would be similar, it wouldn't just be the inflatable structures by themselves.
Even if we were to build underground habitats as you propose, which would likely require workers to do so, we would have to line the interior surfaces to hold the pressures and prevent intrusion by harmful chemicals. Remember that Biosphere 2's initial problems were partially traced to the exposed concrete reacting with the atmosphere in the habitat. Even the underground facilities you are proposing would likely require an Earth exported inflatable structure to line the habitat at least till infrastructure is established on Mars to form a safe sealing barrier.
Very interesting. Thank you for examining this very important topic. Mars habitats aren't being covered thoroughly on other channels
I’ll let other people go to mars for me
Very dumb
The nouveau Nephlilim pharisee Pharoahs aren't going to mars. They are getting off the planet before eclipsing the nucleus of our Sun's Oort cloud magnetosphere for the next millennium RESETS the planet as in the he days of Noah.
😂 Me too.
How are the modules inflated and maintain the inflation ?
The radiation environment would now allow this BS.
2 ways to move your center gravity : 1 is vortex right hand rule 2 use pressure and vacuum to change center if gravity then universe attraction follow our center if gravity and attraction increase if closer or decrease if further
Great report. Thank you!
Consider how this even a rarified air one would be there. Sure you would still need a pressure suit. But it would be easier
How about designing "fairings" and/or spent Fuel tanks as habitats?
Dig a hole it's easier and the walls be structured by you and can easily by insulated from any contaminants.
The problem with inflatable domes for habitats is a very risky means of life support because they’re in highly known to tear rip puncture, etc. so you would have to come up with the material that’s much more stronger and reliable so it would be tear proof and puncture proof, it will also have to be well insulated Because of the temperatures on Mars.
Nice, but put it inside crevices or caves of valles marineris for radiation and weather shielding.
Before Bigelow, there was me. I designed inflatable space habitats in college AutoCAD, c1997. Before me, there was NASA and their precursor in the '50s. 😂😂 You can always 3D print a structure around the inflatables later.
Cool video. I always thought they needed to put a colony on the moon to learn the basics before going as far as Mars. Inflatable habitats opens up many opportunities to make such a space station possible.
Yo, the editing on this video is fuckin ace.
They could take expanding foam chemicals to fill inside the shell so it doesn’t collapse or at least fill ribs with it.
Could also erect some snow fences type structures around it so wind blown particles are deposited around and over the dome. Let the wind do the work for you lol.
🎉🎉😊😊foi macho , i am astrology from country brasil🎉🎉😊😊❤❤
YES, Devoted segment on R. B. Would love it.
Mr Bigelow should have improved his habitats since then; Perhaps he could have constructed a revolving module for centrifugal gravity, which the ISS never had (which would also be better for plant growth etc). Both would be essential for manned Mars missions.
Build some test habitats out by death valley, have people live in them like on mars, growing food, recycling, living on vary little resupplys, after 2 years, we can get an idea of how it's going to work out..
They tried that, it was called biosphere2. It didn’t go well.
Your videos are addictive!!
I was completely sceptical, but this..gives me a very different view on the subject.
--A thought..once inflated, they could be coated with the local sand, as added protection from the sun and other radiation sources. Solidified..protection, even from the local weather.
Your description statement is incorrect they already analyze the regular for Mars That's the reason why they have test samples inside a civility and then they construct inside this facility. That's how they made the idea of using regular to print material. They simulated the soil or ground of that planet inside of control location.
I'll go to Mars. No problem. Light the candle, lets roll!
Shining glass domes? They can be mesh. Using the Ion engine concept where atmosphere is pulled from the outside to the inside using a 20KV potential between two mesh layers. Mars atmosphere at earth atmospheric pressures inside the mesh dome.
Why mix metric and imperial? Either use one or both. 60' length x 42m dia (60'x 137' or 18m x 42m)
I'm still wondering about Solar Flares and the Storms on Mars. Having a inflateable habitat in the orbit is one thing, but on Mars Surface? Not to mention the extrem fine radioactive dust. Or the lack of power generation with solar panels. I think many people still don't know how incredible deadly the Mars really is.
Hiding underground would be probably the best option. But then you lack of sunlight, maybe causing depressions and other problems over long term.
I've worked with Vectran in electrical cable manufacturing. It is extremely strong! However in this application the question is how radiation shielding will be achieved. 🤷♂
Great video! Keep it up!
At the moment,.., Beam, could be use as a private room, when needs call...
I like the glass domes but are they strong enough
Do we know the long-term effects of living in an atmosphere without nitrogen? Providing a nitrogen-bearing atmosphere poses major practical difficulties, whether on Mars or in free space. No nitrogen in the air, no nitrogen in the blood. Does that change anything?
I definitely agree with you on the semi inflatable domes.
The first habs on Mars will be dug by Prufrock 2. The tunnels may be lined with linked, inflatable habs and the ends capped with airlocks. Radiation shielding is within the realm of possibility, but for living on Mars? Day to day, growing food and sleeping and exercising? The bulk of time spent will have to be underground. Prufrock can develop rover tunnels to different locations for pop-up exploration, and it can be delivered on one of the first Starships. /2cents. I could be wrong.
13:19
So, module that is 60 Feet in length and 40-50 Meters in diameter ..
how many usable cubic hand-spans it gives?
Mixing measurement units (esp. in space related stuff) has already produced interesting results ..
Excellent video with complete information for the average space nerd. 👌
I thought I noticed some vague hand waving at the whole 'radiation' point. I'd really like to see some realistic numbers there before I sign up to live in a Mars tent.
Keep on it! We seem to be on track!
Put a tube grow bulb in the middle, and spin the grow bed just fast enough to create gravity.
For a science fiction story I'm thinking about, I like the idea of a spacecraft that essentially has a water reservoir surrounding the crew area that provides potable water and a radiation shield.
Well good news that's like an actual proposal for these things, some of the ideas use heavy water so it would only be potable if diluted and used sparingly (if it's less than like 10% of your water it works the same as water effectively but more than that and it slows things down too much) but others use normal water or even a premixed water that's more d2o than standard but still safe levels
Make sure the airlock is extra strong. Mark Whatney will thank you
Bigallow put of North Las Vegas has a space station already in orbit.
how bout an inflatable hab that comes with an injectable liquid foam that once mixed with a catalyst expands an hardens so that way the inflatable part acts as a mold/outer shell.
The answer, as always, will be a mix or a hybrid of all system.
Probably the 3D printing for the "hard exterior shell" and an inflatable system for "internal living space".
We will also leverage cave whenever we encounter one.
The "real" issue is the complexity of having to shield the "habitat" from Radiation + external "hazards" and having an efficient internal system for pressurization & climate control.
So my guess is the final system will have a combination of all concept.
Can you do a video of what it would look like to stand on Io surface?
Options in material to work with
Could egg be best space fertilizer for indoor agricultural
Please do a video on monolithic domes for Mars habitats. They could use the same shell to make several domes and robots to mix and apply the concrete.
Awesome video, very informative. Good job guys 👍. Would love to see an extended video on Bigelow. Who knew twenty years ago that we would be grateful for crazy billionaires who dare to dream.
Great content! Thanks!
Using regoth will still be needed. It is preferred because it blocks radiation and because it uses insitue resources.
9:01 😂😂 ".....is not there's a Giant Dyson sucking up everything"
at :57 that looks like a Commodore Amiga 2000.... Commodore forever! Shout out to all us fans.
very interesting and informative video thank you very much
Façam um vídeo sobre Bigelow por favor !!!
Space in space can and will be spacious. You’ll find me in the galley or holodeck most of the time.
I was saddened / disappointed when Bigelow disappeared from the scene. Encouraging to see Sierra pick up the inflatable concept and run with it. The long trip to mars needn’t be cramped quarters. A rigid truss with a bunch of inflatables.