Quick question regarding your pot odds calculation: I think the reason I am confused is because of your use of the word "odds." I understand an odds calculation to be calculated in the following formula: b/(1+a) where the relationship is: a to b ... e.g. 2 to 1 = 1/(1+2) = 33.3% By comparison, your pot odds calculation should be stated as 2 to 1, and then calculated in the above formula. But you included your own bet in the pot odds calculation for simplicity's sake. Although it may be simpler, it can be confusing to those who understand pot odds well enough. Thanks for the videos. I look forward to learning more.
Thanks for the question. The video is meant to isolate the Turn Decision. On the turn, we consider our explicit pot odds at drawing a good river card and winning only the turn-sized pot. We also consider the implied odds of drawing a good river card and getting some more money out of our opponent. We make the flop call for multiple reasons. You are correct that one of them is NOT explicit pot odds to complete a flush on the turn. If you consider an 8 or 9 giving us the best hand, we do have...
Thank you for the glowing review. Please spread the word about our videos with any or you poker (or non poker!) playing friends. We could use more views and fans as we build an audience.
Implied odds matter more with deep stacks, ie. how many chips are left behind. When you're in a hand it's good practice to understand the effective stack(s).
You do have to be careful not to over optimistically expect your opponent to put more chips in the pot when you hit. Very tight players don't give implied odds. Also, it's hard to get implied odds with obvious draws like a flopped nut flush draw or broadway draw.
explicit odds. 33% equity vs about 28% pot odds. We don't just make the call for explicit odds, implied odds help make the call more valuable, as does stealing the pot on scary turns and rivers (straightening cards, paired turns).
i have phil gordon's little green book with me here and is says that pot odds= total pot / (amount im asked to call) to 1 so I'm having a hard time understanding why you are dividing 1750 by 3x1750...Please explain what the difference is in these two formulas if any.
Greetings. We have a video entitled Counting Outs as well as some practice videos on calculating equities and comparing to your pot odds that will help you. For a limited time $10 will get you access to these videos and more on our website. The course you want is called "Pot Odds". Counting Outs was once indeed on youtube. We don't have any current plans to switch which videos are free on youtube.
You called 500 into a 750 pot. Don't you also need future value to make up for this particular incorrect call or do we disregard this and only perform the calculations at the point in time where we are faced with the 1750 call? This bit confuses me. P.s you have the most awesome teaching style. Very clear. a reply to this particular question would mean the world to me
If you calculate T: 2/3 P you will see that you need the opponent to bet 3/7 on the river for you to make profit. NOT 1/2. And if you calculate T: 1/2 P you will see that you need the opponent to bet 1/4 on the river for you to make a profit. NOT 1/5. If you go through the calculations yourself you will see that I am right. The right figures are: T: P = R: 2/3 P T: 2/3 P = R 3/7 P T: 1/2 P = R 1/4 P
There may be different schools of thought regarding implied odds, but this I thought they were about the amount of chips your opponent will pay off, not the total pot on the river. You don't figure your own chips in this total, only your opponents' (there may be more than 1). You may need to go back and check because I think you may need 7000 in this situation.
Do you think you could still be a winning player if you played mathematically correct when seeing each card and never factoring in implied odds? Like just making fold bet or call decisions based solely on explicit odds at all times?
Ok, I think you got the pot odds part wrong. You should not add your chips to the total pot. It's like this: if you have a flush draw on the river, you have 9 outs, which brings about 19% chance of hitting it. If the the Villain bet 100 chips into a 100 chips pot it would not be profitable to call on the long run (excluding implied odds). That is because you would lose 100 chips 81% of the time and win 200 (not 300) 19% of the time.
Hello Mr Greenbean!I found this video very informative, however, are there any 'benchmarks' of how much should be bet on Turn and River for other scenarios other than flush draw? Like you said for a straight draw or a fullhouse. Do you still use the same 'benchmarks' or do they have to change? I applied it for a straight and found that the villain/ myself has to be at least 1/4 on the turn in order for a 1/6 river. Is this correct or am I wrong? Please help on this bit!
If you're being realistic some of those 9outs you have had already been dealt and folded by other players so you're real equity is probably even less than 20%. I'd go for 15% equity which changes a lot
hi greenbean, if im playing on full tilt or poker stars and i re- raise my pocket kings all in for 20x the pot, what are the odds of a straight hitting the 5-2 off that the villain insta calls with after my shove? i have worked it out to be approx 99.9 per cent can you confirm
you made this super complicated , all you need to do is firgure out the pot odds being offered now, and firgure out the pot odds you need to break even and subtract what your offered from what you being need and multiply that result by the bet, the answer to that is the amount of money you need to get at the river to make the call.
Your opponent would have to make a lot of mistakes for that style to be profitable. It is so passive, you'll only ever make money when you are dealt a better hand than your opponent AND he has a hand good enough to bet. That is a bleak situation. Our Fold Equity video would hit that home. You can also think about what would happen if both people played the strategy you mention perfectly against each other.
I'm sorry but your videos are a confusing learning experience. Your presentation skills are lacking, your writing in particular and the way you display the information all over the slide is very frustrating to keep track of, I find myself having to skip back constantly. Also, your voice is slightly irritating but I think that's already been said. On a positive note the idea this channel represents I believe is well intentioned and should the right steps be taken, it has the potential to evolve into a useful learning tool for the amateur poker player.
Quick question regarding your pot odds calculation: I think the reason I am confused is because of your use of the word "odds." I understand an odds calculation to be calculated in the following formula: b/(1+a) where the relationship is: a to b ... e.g. 2 to 1 = 1/(1+2) = 33.3%
By comparison, your pot odds calculation should be stated as 2 to 1, and then calculated in the above formula. But you included your own bet in the pot odds calculation for simplicity's sake. Although it may be simpler, it can be confusing to those who understand pot odds well enough. Thanks for the videos. I look forward to learning more.
Thanks for the question. The video is meant to isolate the Turn Decision. On the turn, we consider our explicit pot odds at drawing a good river card and winning only the turn-sized pot. We also consider the implied odds of drawing a good river card and getting some more money out of our opponent.
We make the flop call for multiple reasons. You are correct that one of them is NOT explicit pot odds to complete a flush on the turn. If you consider an 8 or 9 giving us the best hand, we do have...
Thank you for the glowing review. Please spread the word about our videos with any or you poker (or non poker!) playing friends. We could use more views and fans as we build an audience.
Implied odds matter more with deep stacks, ie. how many chips are left behind. When you're in a hand it's good practice to understand the effective stack(s).
You do have to be careful not to over optimistically expect your opponent to put more chips in the pot when you hit. Very tight players don't give implied odds. Also, it's hard to get implied odds with obvious draws like a flopped nut flush draw or broadway draw.
is this example just for cash games ? would this example fit for tournament play. ?
explicit odds. 33% equity vs about 28% pot odds. We don't just make the call for explicit odds, implied odds help make the call more valuable, as does stealing the pot on scary turns and rivers (straightening cards, paired turns).
i have phil gordon's little green book with me here and is says that pot odds= total pot / (amount im asked to call) to 1 so I'm having a hard time understanding why you are dividing 1750 by 3x1750...Please explain what the difference is in these two formulas if any.
Nice...I use the pot odds ratio gap method. The results are the same.
shouldnt it be 9/43 or as per ur previous videos 9*4 ... im a bit confused !
Greetings. We have a video entitled Counting Outs as well as some practice videos on calculating equities and comparing to your pot odds that will help you. For a limited time $10 will get you access to these videos and more on our website. The course you want is called "Pot Odds". Counting Outs was once indeed on youtube. We don't have any current plans to switch which videos are free on youtube.
You called 500 into a 750 pot. Don't you also need future value to make up for this particular incorrect call or do we disregard this and only perform the calculations at the point in time where we are faced with the 1750 call? This bit confuses me. P.s you have the most awesome teaching style. Very clear. a reply to this particular question would mean the world to me
If you calculate T: 2/3 P you will see that you need the opponent to bet 3/7 on the river for you to make profit. NOT 1/2.
And if you calculate T: 1/2 P you will see that you need the opponent to bet 1/4 on the river for you to make a profit. NOT 1/5.
If you go through the calculations yourself you will see that I am right.
The right figures are:
T: P = R: 2/3 P
T: 2/3 P = R 3/7 P
T: 1/2 P = R 1/4 P
There may be different schools of thought regarding implied odds, but this I thought they were about the amount of chips your opponent will pay off, not the total pot on the river. You don't figure your own chips in this total, only your opponents' (there may be more than 1). You may need to go back and check because I think you may need 7000 in this situation.
I read somewhere that implied odds is just a reason for a donk to suckout. I don't know. I think there might be something to this.
So Implied Odds is the money that we need to make in future streets so we can make a profit call right?
Correct Joao!
Do you think you could still be a winning player if you played mathematically correct when seeing each card and never factoring in implied odds? Like just making fold bet or call decisions based solely on explicit odds at all times?
The problem with counting on implied odds with flushes is that everyone sees the flush possibility. This makes it hard to get payed off with a flush.
obviously didn't watch the whole thang ma man
Ok, I think you got the pot odds part wrong. You should not add your chips to the total pot. It's like this: if you have a flush draw on the river, you have 9 outs, which brings about 19% chance of hitting it. If the the Villain bet 100 chips into a 100 chips pot it would not be profitable to call on the long run (excluding implied odds). That is because you would lose 100 chips 81% of the time and win 200 (not 300) 19% of the time.
jozan9 No, he's right because he converted it to a percentage of 1/3rd which is what a full pot bet is
Good vid, as always, but how much did it cost to get Harold Ramis to do the voice over?
Hello Mr Greenbean!I found this video very informative, however, are there any 'benchmarks' of how much should be bet on Turn and River for other scenarios other than flush draw? Like you said for a straight draw or a fullhouse. Do you still use the same 'benchmarks' or do they have to change? I applied it for a straight and found that the villain/ myself has to be at least 1/4 on the turn in order for a 1/6 river. Is this correct or am I wrong? Please help on this bit!
dude, it may be because im tripping, but you sound JUST like Jason Somerville!
If you're being realistic some of those 9outs you have had already been dealt and folded by other players so you're real equity is probably even less than 20%. I'd go for 15% equity which changes a lot
wrong, you arent suppose to take the cards of the other players into consideration, i think. They could just as easily not have any of the 9 outs.
implied odds matter more with deep stacks!
hi greenbean,
if im playing on full tilt or poker stars and i re- raise my pocket kings all in for 20x the pot, what are the odds of a straight hitting the 5-2 off that the villain insta calls with after my shove? i have worked it out to be approx 99.9 per cent can you confirm
championay hahaha i know this is 5 years ago but it made me lol
Did a field study on this topic and can confirm your approximation
you have 2 of the same video...gonna comment again so i win the contest. wow. easily one of the best poker videos I've seen period.
Yeah, I think you're right. I picked it up wrong.
These have been great vids- thanks!
you made this super complicated , all you need to do is firgure out the pot odds being offered now, and firgure out the pot odds you need to break even and subtract what your offered from what you being need and multiply that result by the bet, the answer to that is the amount of money you need to get at the river to make the call.
Wonderful Vid! Thanks a lot. Cleared a few things up. Well done.
Thank you!
People really do all this math in they heads just to figure out if theyre gonna call? Seems like a lot to memorize this off the top
Nope, this is off the table stuff. Once you are at the table, you have it pretty figured out because of all the off the table homework.
This really is a fantastic video
Isn't that flop call wrong???
no not at all
Your opponent would have to make a lot of mistakes for that style to be profitable. It is so passive, you'll only ever make money when you are dealt a better hand than your opponent AND he has a hand good enough to bet. That is a bleak situation. Our Fold Equity video would hit that home. You can also think about what would happen if both people played the strategy you mention perfectly against each other.
Sounds like gus Hansen
I believet his could be explained FAR better than this.
Good info but dude take some some voice lessons. you are talking below your natural range and it is very irratating - gravely, raspy.
john j lmfao
I'm sorry but your videos are a confusing learning experience. Your presentation skills are lacking, your writing in particular and the way you display the information all over the slide is very frustrating to keep track of, I find myself having to skip back constantly. Also, your voice is slightly irritating but I think that's already been said. On a positive note the idea this channel represents I believe is well intentioned and should the right steps be taken, it has the potential to evolve into a useful learning tool for the amateur poker player.