I remember watching one of Dood's videos where he said, "You know what other game everyone called a stupid easy baby game for stupid babies when it released? Marvel 2."
There is a button just for assists, such a dumbed down game. Only 4 attack buttons. You can do super moves by just pressing two buttons, or a fireball and two buttons. Such a baby game. Characters die even when blocking because chip damage is insane. /s but you see how easy it is to cherry pick stuff to make a game sound easy or dumbed down.
thats the problem with the FGC, DBFZ was another exaple of this, the game recive a lot of hate because autocombos and how easy the imputs are, man not every game needs to be complicade like the arcades
People *HATED* Marvel 2 when it was released and literally only played it to ruin other people's fun. They wanted to make everyone hate Marvel 2 because it was a terrible game. So they learned the most busted crap, the most broken combos, the most absurd glitches. But then one MvC2 Hater mistook another MvC2 Hater for an MvC2 Fan and the two tried to ruin eachother's fun...and accidentally started having fun trying to ruin the game for eachother. And that's how the MvC2 Fandom was born.
I have seen this discourse actively keep my friends from picking up fighting games. The last time this occurred was for GGS. I got my friend to buy the game. It is his first fighting game since MVC3. He was only floor 4 and struggling in floor 5. He was really enjoying it. He is the type of guy that REALLY gets into a game. So he started looking up influencers discussing the game…bet you know where this is goin. He kept hearing that GGS is a baby game and if you sucked at GGS you suck at fighting games and will never get better. It got to him and he stopped playing it after a month, and actually felt bad because he wasn’t good at it. He refuses to play with me now. I love the FGC but this type of discourse actively keeps this community small rather than embracing newcomers.
That's awful, I feel for him and you both. Homie shoulda kept at it if he was enjoying himself, he would have definitely seen improvement by keeping at it. Folks really gotta stop being elitists about video games of all things. Normalize being a reasonable human being. Also, in the event that your friend somehow happens to see this; I believe in you buddy. I only started taking 2D fighters seriously last year (have lots of experience in Soulcalibur but that doesn't translate over very well at all) so I've been learning myself and there are definitely times where it can feel disheartening or even impossible to get better, I'm still not even mid level but I have managed to make progress and trust me - if I can do it, he sure as hell can too.
This sucks. Everyone sucks when they're new. It's part of the process of learning and enjoying the journey. It sucks that people took that away by negatively talking like that. Hope that changes in the future and your friend gives it another shot.
It's also not helping that a HUGE portion of the FGC supports the position that if you're not literally in the top 5-10% of players(depending on the game), you are a trash scrub and should feel bad.
We all know Kyanta is the greatest fighting game of all time, past and future, so what's the point of splitting hairs about which ones are less worse than Kyanta?
I love hearing about all these weird views people have online about fighting games because I have basically 0 interaction with the greater online FGC, and just live in my isolated bubble where everyone is reasonable and respects games they dont like.
The prior two games were actually bad, and roster decisions and character designs only amplified people's ire. And Third Strike isn't really celebrated outside of the FGC. That's a word reserved for something like SF2.
@@RicochetForce And SF2 is janky as hell, even at its newest iteration. In short: EVERY GAMES HAS FLAWS. It applies to 3rd Strike, CvS2, MvC2, KI, etc. No exceptions.
In their defense though, it's often true. Some games get dumbed down or changed so drastically they barely resemble the series people loved in the first place. Sorry I'm a little defensive about that one because people use "LOL OLD GAME GOOD NEW GAME BAD" to belittle my opinions a lot. And yes I try the new games and I get frustrated because they don't deliver on what the old games that were only released in Japan had and I've been supporting the Tales franchise for 20 years preordering every new game in the desperate hope that we'd FINALLY get one of the good 2D ones and instead we get Berseria and Arise which completely abandon everything I loved about the series and deliver competent but generic gameplay and everyone loves it and I realize I'll never get an RPG with a 4-player co-op 2D fighting game for a battle system ever because all of the games that fit that description were only ever released in Japan and as such pretty much the entire Western fanbase is completely oblivious to what Tales is SUPPOSED to be as they applaud it turning into a Star Ocean clone and losing its entire identity as a unique franchise! ...erm...what were we talking about?
@@GELTONZ I love this tangent. Like I really enjoyed Berseria but that was 100% because I thought the characters were sick and really enjoyed the plot, I turned the difficulty down to Easy even though I could play the game just fine because I hated the combat so much I didn't want to bother with it
@@GELTONZ No, it often ISN'T true. It is The Bitter Man's Creed. If new shit was bad as often as these people suggest, the world would've made 0 progress. The reality is that most new shit is just okay, just like most old shit was okay. What their viewpoint does is taint their view of the future and self-impose a type of cage to their range of experiences.
@@RicochetForce this. It wasn't true for Blazblue Centralfiction, it wasn't true for Guilty Gear Xrd, SF4, Killer Instinct 2013, MvC 2 or 3, and a lot of others, and it certainly won't be true 10 years from now where we would look fondly on games like Strive as the pinnacle of their craft before things turned to shit.
@@GELTONZ Y'know, even though I really adore Bersaria and plan on getting Arise at some point, I gotta admit, I sorta vibe with the feeling of "the old thing that appealed to me is just never coming back because the new way of doing it appeals to more people, and having to accept that reality really, really, really, really sucks". Lord knows I've been there. Not with Tales Of or fighting games, but I've been there.
thanks for saying this Sajam, there's still a lot of silly mindsets in the FGC community (r/fighters, jfc) and this kind of mentality just makes the genre less enjoyable for anyone who has a less terminally online outlook on their game consumption and don't want to pick a side in these made up conflicts. In the same way people misunderstand "rights" as a tug-of-war between groups, online FGC people misunderstand enjoyment as a pie where other people's slice affects the size of your own. It preys on less socially intelligent people and opens a gateway to becoming really toxic because they incorporate this elitism, which is more of a taught insecurity, kneejerk reaction to extra-tribal opinions and ironic disattachement, into everything. I dislike interacting with most of the online FGC because this elitist underbelly bleeds into so many interactions and you feel like not participating because somebody just always have to take the wind of out of your sails for no reason. Most things people like are good, not to your taste at worst but very few things people actively seek have no merit. People finding enjoyment in things is good, because enjoyment can be a scarce commodity for people whose lives aren't as good as yours. Standing against other people's enjoyment is just adopted sociopathy by people who'd rather side with a bully because they're too insecure to stand for their right to enjoy things just because they do. I dislike this person-archetype, they bring down themselves and everyone around them.
You really undersold your comment with that lowercase t in the beginning Clicking Read More was like finding my partner for the night is a grower, not a shower
Not only applies to Fighting games, i had someone trying to convince me of switching to another game(think it was a mmo) by shitting on mine instead of telling me what's cool about his. I obviously stuck to my game
It's in every genre of video games and it's sad. People in general like shitting on other peoples happiness. Like Sajam said "What's the point of making other people sad?"
@@mchlup My guess is it's really simple: It makes them feel good on two levels. It attacks the person for liking something they dislike, and it's an indirect attack on the thing they dislike. Not only do they dislike [THING} they dislike anyone that likes [THING]. It's part of the reason why discussions about games can be so annoying, because as Sajam said, they'll throw out bad faith arguments and seem reasonable, but they're afraid of being ignored if they outright state "I think this game is shit". Because the latter makes people ignore you outright.
Watch the Xrd players roll back their shit when you bring up Danger Time. Every fighting game's got some nonsense to it, your Best Fighting Game is gonna be the one who's nonsense you tolerate or even enjoy.
I remember I was chatting with a guy and he mentioned how he thinks the biggest mistake Strive did was add gold burst because he felt that it make it too easy for “scrubs” to get full meter without trying and he felt that the addition of this new mechanic was insulting to the “true guilty gear fans” who used to work for their meter in previous games. He championed Plus R and Xrd without knowing that this so called “scrub mechanic” has been in both games and watching him try and run his sentence back was embarrassing. Elitists will just make shit up, it’s ridiculous.
I saw this like crazy when the original BlazBlue came out cuz I fell in love with it but everyone was calling it Guilty Gear for babies at first. Now people are calling Strive the baby game compared to BlazBlue. The cycle never ends boys!
That's what it seemed like at BBCT's arcade launch, because they probably watched a-cho / joybox or whatever jp arcade footage on youtube, and at week 1 most players were Ragna and their combos were just 5BC[D],214A214D all week.
i had a friend who was super like this. Key word being had here, bc they just extended this mentality to EVERYTHING in their life. Cutting out the toxicity is good, and i try to be as positive as I can
While I haven't played them myself yet even Missing Link and Isuka seem like they'd be a lot of potential fun, ML with how absurdly crazy and unhinged it is and Isuka being a goofy Drunk/Party game for laughing at nonsense.
Accent core plus R has FBs and strive gave me vertical alpha blade the teleports are cool but I like the changes to RC that make using Chipp’s movement fun. Xrd is fun
My first Guilty Gear was Strive, until Strive I had no eyes for GG, because it always seemed like Tekken where it's a lot of legacy players (shows what I knew) I heard Strive was going to be completely new was I decided to pick it up. Love it. Started to get interested in others, but now with all this hate for Strive from Xrd players, I'm at a point where I don't want to play other GGs because the only "great" things I see about it are "Strive bad Xrd good". Just can't jive with a game that's built up like that.
That sucks that you've had that experience and had the negative opinions of some people poison the well like that. But I don't blame you for feeling that way, but I'll just say Xrd and plus r are truly incredible experiences that I think every fighting game player should experience! I love strive, but I also really like that each GG is so different from one another that I have a reason to go back to them. I get why people that love previous GG entries aren't keen on change, but I'd highly recommend giving them a shot! Both Xrd and plus r keep that element of really strong meter management, powerful gameplans, and unique character and gameplay design. But all of these work in different ways since your base systems affect things differently! I don't feel experienced enough to say, "oh the combos are great cuz of this and that, and the neutral's immaculate because of..." So I won't even try to (plus that stuff is so subjective to begin with). I'll just say that they are incredibly fun games that I greatly love playing in addition to strive! Guilty gear is just so SICK!
I learned it the hard way because my group of friends started playing fortnite yet again and I felt betrayed. I got mad because they all have games like Guilty Gear yet they chose the "uncultured" game. In return I received hatred because I was criticizing my closest people for enjoying themselves.
Fate/Unlimited Codes and Hokuto No Ken are my favorite fighting games I don't play beyond a casual level. Instant death and ginormous combos and incredible conversions that you break your hands to do are amazing and I absolutely love watching them even if I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end and dont have the capability to do them myself
We got SFV, Strive, and Type Lumina, now all we need is another Blazblue so we can start calling people Blazbabies again and perpetuate the cycle of shitting on other people's games for no discernible reason.
On SF is almost a tradition to hate the new one and years later love it just to hate the next one. Happen to 3, 4 and V. People will love V once 6 come out.
@@seokkyunhong8812 Honestly, I'm not a SF fan, but V was legit messed up from the inconsistent graphics to the terrible monetization to sacrificing offline to make online look slightly more tolerable to the freaking rootkit. Capcom has dropped the ball hard on that generation of their fighters, no new/old bias here.
@@seokkyunhong8812 it'll happen. even if 6 has a stellar launch with no bugs and a huge roster and all the features people want, there will be a VERY LOUD crowd of people talking about how all the system differences, whatever they are, make the game suck ass and why 5 is so much better.
People are totally entitled to their opinions but some people act like whatever game they don’t like killed their dog or something, it’s so odd to me. Why not put that time and energy being toxic towards a game you actually like?
I said this on stream, but I was the guy back in the day who ragged on Blazblue because it wasn't GG. My attitude was wack then, it's wack now, and I've never been happier just dicking around with weird old games or sick games that didn't get their proper recognition.
People should realize that it's just a game and not a place to display their insecurities. It's okay not to like a game, it's not okay to attack other people and ruin their fun
Yeah theres a difference between critique and just vitriol. people forget the difference. I fucking love 3rd strike and play it all the time, but that game is janky as hell. I remember Bafael talking about the development of Online edition, devs were asking if people wanted a balanced ver of it or just the same game, people said the game is perfect. Hell nah, i wish we had a 4th strike with a playable twelve and tweaks. This "putting-your-game-on-a-pedestal that-can-do-no-wrong narrative is not it, chief. Just enjoy your game for what it is and dont shit on other people and their games
It's not that they put their game on a pedestal and think it's perfect, it's that like. Why change a game that you already like? I think Xrd is fine where it is now, even if there are some things I would personally adjust, and that if they ported it over or whatever, it would suck if they changed it into a version I liked less. MvC2 fans LIKE how broken the game is, changing that would be changing the entire core audience of the game.
The weirdest thing that most people outside of the SNK scene probably didn't experience is not only did people do this with KOFXIII when KOFXIV came out, but most of those same people did it for XIII when XIII was new. Shit didn't make any damn sense. Tons of people talking about how great KoFXIII is and how it's the best FG out right now, but then you ask them for games and they're like "Oh I don't play this game." These dudes would be like "Man SF4/SFxT are so wack, KoFXIII is the best game" and then you'd try to get games in and they'd be like "Nah I won't play this game offline at locals or majors because the netcode is bad" during a time when all netcode across the board was bad. It was so god damn goofy.
I swear to god people pretend to play a game because it looks pretty then never bother giving it an actual try. Like there's nothing stopping you from messing around with a game when it goes on sale
Honestly though KOFXIII was one of the only games of the PS360 generation that made me want to keep playing fighting games. Almost everything else just felt painful, spent most my time just playing old games on GGPO. My less acceptable take, the second best game of that generation was SFxT after the 2013 patch. Seriously like on the same level as CvS2 to me. I doubt it'll ever get to that same level of SF3 where everyone hated it back in the day but love it now just because fighting games are released so rapid fire these days, but I seriously feel it's on that level. Still hoping for any game this generation to feel the same to me as KOF13, SFxT 2013 or Vanilla MvC3 did back then. Nothing in the PS4 gen even came close.
I absolutely honestly loved XIII from day 1 and played for years until XIV came out and I hated XIV with passion, I even bought a PS4 thinking of later playing KOF XIV but I simply couldn't, so I kept playing XIII until I moved to Guilty Gear Xrd (I had played XX in the past) and never again looked back. I honestly found so much horrible stuff in XIV that I couldn't play it even since beta... BUT I now tested KOF XV and it looks and feels great to me so I already bought it on XSX and PC... Some times there is a sequel we really hate or dislike but not all of them coming out later, so I understand people not liking a newer game that changes a lot, the issue is when those persons do as you and Sajam explained, praising a game they previously bashed at heart
I enjoyed Kof XIII on Xbox 360 and got all the achievements in the game doing HD combos with an Xbox 360 pad's analog stick was hard af but rewarding it's my favourite fighting game for the X360 generation and I can't wait for Kof XV
I thought of some reasons how attacking other games are "beneficial" for the people who do it (or they think it is): 1. Players' time is limited - "killing" another game will (probably? haha) increase the chance people will pick up the player's favorite game, especially if they insult the same game in the series 2. Tournament slots are limited - "killing" another game will free up a slot in majors, increasing the chance (probably? haha) that the player's favorite game will get featured
Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it. You get entitled, thinking that another game is 'taking players away' from your own, even though there's no guarantee that those folks would play your game at all (funny enough, Strive's success ABSOLUTELY encouraged people to try previous versions they never would have touched in the past). Also, they think if they can 'make' the new game flop with bad word of mouth, then the next one will be more like what they want...ignoring the fact that if the game does flop, you hurt the chances of EVER getting another one. To be fair, active players ARE a finite resource, and essential to a community. 'Just keep playing your old game' is less comforting when you're running out of people to play with. And people leaving an older game you love for a new one you think isn't worthwhile can be frustrating...but thinking you get to control that is where folks start to get unreasonable.
a lot of the time it is less of a player issue and more of a "we won't get another game like this" thing. its the anger of seeing people vote with their wallets towards something you don't like knowing that it'll only influence more games to not be to your tastes
@@hefdef9961 That's a fair point. As a Thousand-Year Door fan, part of me is resentful any time a new Paper Mario game does well. I'm probably never gonna see another edition of the franchise that I would actually enjoy. Which sucks! But the thing about voting with your wallet is that sometimes, you lose, and eventually you have to accept the results. You can talk up your game and try to convince people to come around, sure, but when you start trying to ruin other people's good time to help your own cause, you've lost the moral high ground.
@@hefdef9961 This is how I feel a good amount. There are times where I wish games like Samurai Showdown and Killer Instinct got more attention and generally succeed more, but they don't because other games I'm less interested in like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat and Tekken are getting far more attention. I don't want them to Die or some bad shit, but man, give some of that damn attention to those games please 😆! It's like seeing a fat man having a feast not willing to give a crumb to a guy whose bones you can see. Really this is a symptom of a bigger problem, they're not getting enough attention because the FGC community is a small one, one that's at war with itself, with companies having inconsistent quality with the games they're releasing (no Rollback, no advertising, bad tutorials, bad matchmaking, etc) Though hey! Fighting Games are getting a lot more attention now than they were 10 years ago. Hopefully these issues will all be sorted out one day.
All these old games getting rollback really exposed the posers, not that there was ever any doubt. Like, if even half of the dudes posting why a game they don't play is bad, and why this game that they _also_ don't play is Real Fighting Games, those games would be topping the charts.
Yha, though idk a lot of them could actually be more like how I got into GG. Got hype for stive, Picked up Xrd, picked up AC when it got rollback, then got disappointed with what was missing when Strive did come out. I won't say those games are the best ever made, but I think there are still a lot of people that got disappointed that actually did play these games and enjoy them. Obviously you shouldn't call Strive a baby game or that anyone that plays it isn't playing a 'real game', but I think it's okay to think, 'I don't think Strive is a good GG because they removed these things I liked when they simplified the mechanics, which I think was unnecessary and a bad gameplay decision.'
@@deddrz2549 That last statement is so fucking rare, I had to reread it because of how strange it is to see outside of potshots, insults, and attacks on the skills of the developer. In general video games have a problem where the consumer has been conditioned that more mechanics, more complexity, more MORE is good. When being a glutton is considered ideal, subtraction of anything (for any reason) is seen as wrong. I still remember the intense knee-jerk negativity ICO and Shadow of the Colossus got upon release. A game having less does not make it worse.
@@deddrz2549 it’s not a good mindset to ever say “x isn’t good.” Just say it isn’t for you. Design/artistic choices (and whether we like it or not, fighting games are just as much of art as art games) aren’t good or bad, and I’m tired of saying they are. If deadly premonition and clay fighter can be beloved, then simplifying mechanics doesn’t need to be “a bad gameplay decision.” It can just be one you don’t vibe with.
This is such a good point, but I feel like it's a point that will have to be made again... and again... and again... I think it'd be funny if Sajam just released this video every couple years and overdubbed with whatever "NEW GAME BAD" is happening. Personally, I've never met a Guilty Gear I didn't like. Though I've only played the original, XX, Xrd Rev2, and Strive. Maybe I missed a bad one. Of the Guilty Gear games I've played, there's good and bad in all of them. I am very much digging Strive and its approach to characters within its new/altered systems but I completely understand how some of these changes would upset some players. I just don't care. Like, the very first thing I tried to do when Baiken was released today, was to see if I could do the same dustloops from Xrd, because those were fun. I found an approximation, but it isn't exactly the same. That sort of encapsulates these experiences for me. Different, but still fun and recognizable. If you're not down for that, the other games still exist. It isn't as if installing Strive uninstalls Xrd or +R. "Play what you like and STFU" is the best advice. No one ever convinced me to play a game being an asshole.
Agreed. Though I will say you've missed A LOT of bad GG games. Strive is like the 8th or 9th entry in the franchise. I'd say other than X1 and the ones you mentioned, the series has had more misses than hits. And that's okay because the devs from ArcSys learned from each mistake.
And here I am, where even though I play Strive the most by far, I still can't decide which Guilty Gear game I actually like the most because I just love the whole series.
I appreciate pretty much every fighting game I don't get how people have such strong negative opinions about games they could just not play and forget about
that elphelt situation was fake. there was zero proof that people werent playing that guy because he played elphelt. the person said it happened to 'his friend' and showed absolutely zero proof despite other elphelt players showing vids of themselves using discord to get matches just fine they then used the situation to guilt trip people for sharing character hate memes and do a bunch of concern trolling about how its mean to make fun of characters in general the day after BlazBlue rollback launched, when rev 2 had completely empty lobbies isn't a great time to get rando matches having a hard time getting lobby matches in a dead game is normal, not a conspiracy against waifu guys
I still remember defecating on Xrd from on high with almost the exact same babygame shit. And I heard the same thing for SCVI, the same shit for MvC3, even MvC2 got this from MvC1 fans back in the day. "Simplification" is just an excuse, they reject any change at all.
7:56 No disrespect to your contemporaries but I really miss hearing you on the comms for SFV but I also really respect you being honest about the game. It's a shame Capcom did what they did.
One thing I really enjoy in my experiences with the English Kof community is how... not self hating they are. While I know it probably was worse in the past, and I’ve only somewhat recently joined the snk community so I might not have experienced it yet, nowadays I don’t really see things like 98 players ganging up on 13 players and calling their game a “baby game that’s not real Kof”, and I don’t see 14 fans calling 2002 enthusiasts “boomers who can’t handle change”(remember people, it’s a double sided coin). We all just kinda agree to dunk on 12 and 2001. Rightfully so. Now of course I haven’t seen everything, and I do know that nothing is perfect, but from my experience, I just wanted to commend the Kof fans , cause I really respect their “play what you want” attitude.
I agree with you hell I also do this. If I want to play a game with fast paced and execution heavy combos I play Kof XIII if I want to play a game with stylish tag and assist combos I play Kof XI and Kof 2000
Enjoy as much as you can, the KOF Latinoamerican community, shits on every fucking game that is not 2k2 vanilla and '98, not only that sometimes they get mad at characters getting and upgrade, literally I see a guy getting pissed of about XV Ryo now being able to do Daigo parries, Not to talk about boomers calling every post 2k2 vanilla game a Mugen, so to summarize there's a civil war in the Latinoamerican community.
I find myself not wanting to interact with the FGC at large because of this. With 3d fighters, I prefer DOA to Tekken. It's simply more fun to me. If one were to go to a FG subreddit however, this opinion would be anathema and seen as heretical. So, I tend to just stick to myself and play the games I like.
@@smithmichael8144 One part is that I feel like DOA is a more accessible game, especially with movement. I also really prefer the grab system in DOA. If you land a command grab, it can't be teched. The only techable grabs are neutral grabs and chains. I tend to play grapplers, so this is a little more appealing to me. I also like the aesthetics and characters more. No one in Tekken really grabbed me. That said, I can also understand why others prefer Tekken. I always like seeing it, just playing it isn't for me.
@@smithmichael8144 As someone that likes to put on a fighting game for guests or family members to play, DOA has been the easiest one to get into. They intuit the movement far easier because "it's like real life" and the attacks are straightfoward and don't really require motion inputs to make cool things happen. Soul Calibur is a close second here because non-gamers really love big fantasy weapons. SCVI's one-button super moves are a crowd favorite, try it next time you have guests.
@@RicochetForce Yup. People forget casual players make up over half the playerbase of ANY modern fighting game. There's even data to support this claim. If you count the players at each rank in a ranked ladder for ANY game, you will ALWAYS find that the _bottom third_ of the rank alone has more players than the rest _combined._ It's true for Street Fighter, Tekken, Brawlhalla, League of Legends, Call of Duty, etc. Dunno why the FGC at large likes to shit on casuals so much when they are the ones making up the sales and the reason developers continue working on the genre.
@BrokenMoonStudios I totally agree. People should take a moment to recognize that most games live and die because of casual sales. I see this in the seemingly unanimous hate of Danger Time in Xrd. I get why competively it would bother most people, but every casual friend I've gotten to play Xrd with me absolutely loses their mind whenever Danger Time happens. It's amazing. I wish they'd at least keep it as something you could toggle on and off.
And you will hear it 10 years from now as well. We're already getting the warmups with folks stating Project L will be the shittiest fighting game because it has simplified inputs.
4:50 I love watching Skullgirls and VSAV to the point that they're extremely high up on what i consider to be the fighting games i think are really good, yet while I have played them, i barely put enough time in to even fully remember the base mechanics of the games. Doesn't stop me from thinking skullgirls is one of the most aesthetically great fighting games ever and VSAV is the coolest shit and needs a new installment.
I guess the sad reality is that the GG title I think is the best doesn't really exist. I've played Strive more than the others by now, yet the shadow of all those great features and fun I had with gameplay mechanics loom over as my mind toils, not thinking those games being better in every way, but with the idea that GGST could have been a much better version of itself if it retained more things from previous games, or rather didn't go out of it's way to remove things that oldheads like and newheads are impartial to anyways.
I think if Xrd gets rollback all the "xrd mains" will probably just leave the toxicity aside and just stay to their game or just shut up. It happened with +R and BBCF since there was all this bravado and shit before the games got rollback and once they did, those people who actually missed and liked this games just stayed to their lanes and let people enjoy Strive.
At least Baiken is in Strive. I started playing GG (Accent Core and Xrd) recently and my favorite weirdos - A.B.A., Zappa and Bedman are nowhere to be seen.
As a person who can’t seem to get into the fighting game community and fighting games as a whole, I love watching every fighting game. They may not be my thing but I’ll watch old, new, unbalanced, weird. I just love the way the look. They’re all so cool but I suck. I feel like you have to put so much into them and I don’t even have a healthy enough mental for them. But every single one looks cool
@@Bladieblah This a perfect time to remind people that SF2 had random damage and stun values on attacks (within certain ranges of course, not completely actually random, but still...)
Honestly, this perspective is one of the big reasons I subscribed to your channel and watch your videos. I hate this type of person in the FGC, the type who can't see a character or game on the screen without reacting like "THIS GAME/CHARACTER FUCKING SUCKS, WHY DO YOU PLAY THIS WTF"
4:33 Haven't even finished the video yet but I just KNOW the game you were thinking of but forgot was KOF XIII. People treat that game like it was made by Jesus Himself. EDIT: Okay he never brought it up again. Still confident it was KOF XIII.
Only time I've ever been able to really embrace that was when Sol was the guy to hate. Like yeah his damage is gross but he's so damn cool. Seriously his command grab is so cool.
I get your point, but i think context is very important, if i was making a joke about a friend's favorite fighting game (with the intention of making them laugh) for example i think it's totally fine or even on social media if i meant it as a joke, but if i was straight up ruining the vibe by just listing every negative things about my friend's fav fighting game i think that's shitty.
I often look at the MvC3U community and the fact that its having a bit of a mild resurgeance due to new mods and continued tourney presence. It's such a beloved game, happens to be one of my favorites. That was NOT how a lot of vocal people felt about it when it released, lemme tell ya. It's always sorta amusing looking at it now.
I love xrd. Its probably my favorite fighting game. It was my first anime fighter and my first guilty gear. I do like it over strive, but I still love strive. They both do things differently and have pros and cons comparatively.
I think there is also another reason why people lambaste new games. It's because they're popular, and they don't like that because they think it's stealing players who could be playing their preferred game instead. Who doesn't want their game to get more players (especially if it's niche)?
I wish we could Jiyuna, i wish we could. Joke aside, this cycle never breaks. You had people that has been doing this since the dawn of time, people used to talk like this about MvC 2 compared to MvC 1. It's like people preferences can't never be opinions, they have to be accepted as facts and the sooner you realize that, the more you can keep your sanity because those people don't change, they never do.
This is the part of the FGC I absolutely hate. While I'm not that good of a fighting game player and don't play them all that frequently anymore, I do still like fighting games and often look up tournaments and even scant JP arcade recordings for them. But I tend to like the more niche fighters. "Nitroplus Blasterz", "Daemon Bride", "Spectral vs Generation", "Chaos Code", and yes..."Arcana Heart", and much more. I really like these fighters and often return to them one way or another, even above the more popular fighters. That's just how my fighting game interests have developed...and I almost regret that now.
The issue I constantly run into is that the FGC simply will not let these fighters exist peacefully. If they are brought up in any capacity, the good ol' expert fighting game players will dunk and decry all of them for any possible reason. I've heard it all. From the simple dismissive kusoge/poverty fighters claim, to "ew, aaannniimmmeeee", to as bad as accusing them and the players that play them of actual heinous crimes. It's just so tiring and demotivating. I jokingly say that fighting games worst enemy is the FGC itself, but in recent times, I'm actually starting to believe that. There is just so much bigoted segregation and toxicity going on in nearly every corner.
This is why, at age 31 and way past my peak, I still play fighting games and not give a crap about what people say about the game. I wanna learn HnK because of Will It Kill, played and enjoyed Kyanta for a bit (learning curve is too steep for someone who wants to play casually + not much players in SEA)... When people said Marvel is dead after UMVC3, I felt lost. Tournaments here reverted to MvC2 or replaced MVC3 for DBFZ that I had no place in the community because the game I truly enjoyed playing was "dead".
I dont really care about the simplification of GGS (even if i dont personally like it) my big problem with the GGS is a lot of the legacy characters felt like they have lost their identity as a character. Which saddens me because I love watching GGS content even if i dont play the game that much but everytime i see Sol wild throw or his heavy mob cemetery i just think somethings missing and get disappointed but hey some people might love that about him now which is awesome because i can always go back to x2 and see awesome sidewinder combos while players that like new sol get what they want too. this discussion is so weird, I feel like everyone apart of it should get a lesson on what is fact and a opinion is seems they missed that class in elementary school
One of the Sols in the thumbnail is a Sol with Orders. ;| But in all seriousness whenever Sajam makes specific vods like this one, I can't help but think the dumb endless war of not just "Melee vs. Ultimate" but "Melee vs. any smash game (or any platform brawler) not named melee" while also looking at melee deeply myself and be like "ok this smash game has some issues, but so does Melee even tho it also has some clean jazz" but i feel for Sajam at 8:15 where you can rightfully jab at a game you're in love with or find stuff you're not really a fan of your game having without deterring anyone else to play it. Like i love Ultimate, but its Online and buffer system is actual unresponsive hell, I love watching Strive and siked to finally play it, but its lobby system is an unnecessary minigame and its movement (especially forward airdashing) looks rough. I love +R, but the person who designed Zappa and Testament was on pure drugs. I like watching melee, but it was a 1-2 character game itself at one point (thank you Fox n' Falco in 2016-2018) and melee also has some campy af Timeout-potential MUs itself like the other smash games. All in all, no fighter is perfect, and they just all have stuff that feels like needles to the heart to at least one person playing them, and they just have to live it cuz there's at least stuff peeps love about a fighter anyways that gives them incentive to still play it despite its flaws.
I know I’m late but you can replace xrd and +r with melee and strive with ultimate and it would be the exact same thing that melee players do to the newer games
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Sajam doesn't even teach people about fighting games anymore, he just teaches them how to be a normal person
That's doing God's work when you look at FGC twitter
God's strongest soldier, God's toughest challenge
The next step is teaching fighting gamers how to be normal people using frame data
I remember watching one of Dood's videos where he said, "You know what other game everyone called a stupid easy baby game for stupid babies when it released? Marvel 2."
There is a button just for assists, such a dumbed down game. Only 4 attack buttons. You can do super moves by just pressing two buttons, or a fireball and two buttons. Such a baby game. Characters die even when blocking because chip damage is insane.
/s but you see how easy it is to cherry pick stuff to make a game sound easy or dumbed down.
thats the problem with the FGC, DBFZ was another exaple of this, the game recive a lot of hate because autocombos and how easy the imputs are, man not every game needs to be complicade like the arcades
@@FrdDrmurr a third example of this is BlazeBlue: Cross Tag Battle
People *HATED* Marvel 2 when it was released and literally only played it to ruin other people's fun. They wanted to make everyone hate Marvel 2 because it was a terrible game. So they learned the most busted crap, the most broken combos, the most absurd glitches. But then one MvC2 Hater mistook another MvC2 Hater for an MvC2 Fan and the two tried to ruin eachother's fun...and accidentally started having fun trying to ruin the game for eachother.
And that's how the MvC2 Fandom was born.
Also every SF games since ST.
I have seen this discourse actively keep my friends from picking up fighting games.
The last time this occurred was for GGS. I got my friend to buy the game. It is his first fighting game since MVC3. He was only floor 4 and struggling in floor 5. He was really enjoying it. He is the type of guy that REALLY gets into a game. So he started looking up influencers discussing the game…bet you know where this is goin. He kept hearing that GGS is a baby game and if you sucked at GGS you suck at fighting games and will never get better. It got to him and he stopped playing it after a month, and actually felt bad because he wasn’t good at it. He refuses to play with me now.
I love the FGC but this type of discourse actively keeps this community small rather than embracing newcomers.
That's awful, I feel for him and you both. Homie shoulda kept at it if he was enjoying himself, he would have definitely seen improvement by keeping at it. Folks really gotta stop being elitists about video games of all things. Normalize being a reasonable human being. Also, in the event that your friend somehow happens to see this; I believe in you buddy. I only started taking 2D fighters seriously last year (have lots of experience in Soulcalibur but that doesn't translate over very well at all) so I've been learning myself and there are definitely times where it can feel disheartening or even impossible to get better, I'm still not even mid level but I have managed to make progress and trust me - if I can do it, he sure as hell can too.
This sucks. Everyone sucks when they're new. It's part of the process of learning and enjoying the journey. It sucks that people took that away by negatively talking like that. Hope that changes in the future and your friend gives it another shot.
sounds like your friend needs to man up
It's also not helping that a HUGE portion of the FGC supports the position that if you're not literally in the top 5-10% of players(depending on the game), you are a trash scrub and should feel bad.
@@antonsimmons8519 And a good chunk of the streamers in the FGC act as relay stations for that message.
I like when he talks. Very calming.
spits facts and asmr opinions.
Damn He gives me tingles.
You and I should talk
Same. I just turn on his talks to listen to in the background when I'm working sometimes
He should commentate some tournaments fr
We all know Kyanta is the greatest fighting game of all time, past and future, so what's the point of splitting hairs about which ones are less worse than Kyanta?
I love hearing about all these weird views people have online about fighting games because I have basically 0 interaction with the greater online FGC, and just live in my isolated bubble where everyone is reasonable and respects games they dont like.
its just twitter that brings the worst in people. People have generally better attitudes in local communities
@@colelegante Twitter is a net negative in life tbh
@@kaleidoslug7777 so is prison, we don't want to go there but it has to exist for bad people to stay there
@@xidjav1836 LMAO
@@colelegante Have you checked facebook or Reddit?
3rd Strike was considered bad and is now one of the most celebrated games in history
New Generation was always bad, though. 3S had some carryover stigma from that.
3s is a great example of FGC contradictions and selective memory. "Celebrated"
Well tbh new generations and second impact was considered bad, 3S just got the stigma carried over from there.
The prior two games were actually bad, and roster decisions and character designs only amplified people's ire. And Third Strike isn't really celebrated outside of the FGC. That's a word reserved for something like SF2.
@@RicochetForce And SF2 is janky as hell, even at its newest iteration.
In short: EVERY GAMES HAS FLAWS.
It applies to 3rd Strike, CvS2, MvC2, KI, etc. No exceptions.
Old game good, new game bad. A tale of salt as old as time.
In their defense though, it's often true. Some games get dumbed down or changed so drastically they barely resemble the series people loved in the first place.
Sorry I'm a little defensive about that one because people use "LOL OLD GAME GOOD NEW GAME BAD" to belittle my opinions a lot. And yes I try the new games and I get frustrated because they don't deliver on what the old games that were only released in Japan had and I've been supporting the Tales franchise for 20 years preordering every new game in the desperate hope that we'd FINALLY get one of the good 2D ones and instead we get Berseria and Arise which completely abandon everything I loved about the series and deliver competent but generic gameplay and everyone loves it and I realize I'll never get an RPG with a 4-player co-op 2D fighting game for a battle system ever because all of the games that fit that description were only ever released in Japan and as such pretty much the entire Western fanbase is completely oblivious to what Tales is SUPPOSED to be as they applaud it turning into a Star Ocean clone and losing its entire identity as a unique franchise!
...erm...what were we talking about?
@@GELTONZ I love this tangent. Like I really enjoyed Berseria but that was 100% because I thought the characters were sick and really enjoyed the plot, I turned the difficulty down to Easy even though I could play the game just fine because I hated the combat so much I didn't want to bother with it
@@GELTONZ No, it often ISN'T true. It is The Bitter Man's Creed.
If new shit was bad as often as these people suggest, the world would've made 0 progress. The reality is that most new shit is just okay, just like most old shit was okay. What their viewpoint does is taint their view of the future and self-impose a type of cage to their range of experiences.
@@RicochetForce this. It wasn't true for Blazblue Centralfiction, it wasn't true for Guilty Gear Xrd, SF4, Killer Instinct 2013, MvC 2 or 3, and a lot of others, and it certainly won't be true 10 years from now where we would look fondly on games like Strive as the pinnacle of their craft before things turned to shit.
@@GELTONZ Y'know, even though I really adore Bersaria and plan on getting Arise at some point, I gotta admit, I sorta vibe with the feeling of "the old thing that appealed to me is just never coming back because the new way of doing it appeals to more people, and having to accept that reality really, really, really, really sucks".
Lord knows I've been there. Not with Tales Of or fighting games, but I've been there.
thanks for saying this Sajam, there's still a lot of silly mindsets in the FGC community (r/fighters, jfc) and this kind of mentality just makes the genre less enjoyable for anyone who has a less terminally online outlook on their game consumption and don't want to pick a side in these made up conflicts.
In the same way people misunderstand "rights" as a tug-of-war between groups, online FGC people misunderstand enjoyment as a pie where other people's slice affects the size of your own. It preys on less socially intelligent people and opens a gateway to becoming really toxic because they incorporate this elitism, which is more of a taught insecurity, kneejerk reaction to extra-tribal opinions and ironic disattachement, into everything. I dislike interacting with most of the online FGC because this elitist underbelly bleeds into so many interactions and you feel like not participating because somebody just always have to take the wind of out of your sails for no reason.
Most things people like are good, not to your taste at worst but very few things people actively seek have no merit. People finding enjoyment in things is good, because enjoyment can be a scarce commodity for people whose lives aren't as good as yours. Standing against other people's enjoyment is just adopted sociopathy by people who'd rather side with a bully because they're too insecure to stand for their right to enjoy things just because they do. I dislike this person-archetype, they bring down themselves and everyone around them.
You really undersold your comment with that lowercase t in the beginning
Clicking Read More was like finding my partner for the night is a grower, not a shower
Finally someone said it.
@@Sorrelhas thanks :)
Incredible comment.
goddamn this is like everything else that could be said about this. amazing comment
real guilty gear is eating a 5k into 50%
Nago is real guilty gear confirmed
Sol bad guy is a real guilty gear
Not only applies to Fighting games, i had someone trying to convince me of switching to another game(think it was a mmo) by shitting on mine instead of telling me what's cool about his. I obviously stuck to my game
It's in every genre of video games and it's sad. People in general like shitting on other peoples happiness. Like Sajam said "What's the point of making other people sad?"
@@mchlup My guess is it's really simple: It makes them feel good on two levels. It attacks the person for liking something they dislike, and it's an indirect attack on the thing they dislike. Not only do they dislike [THING} they dislike anyone that likes [THING]. It's part of the reason why discussions about games can be so annoying, because as Sajam said, they'll throw out bad faith arguments and seem reasonable, but they're afraid of being ignored if they outright state "I think this game is shit". Because the latter makes people ignore you outright.
Watch the Xrd players roll back their shit when you bring up Danger Time. Every fighting game's got some nonsense to it, your Best Fighting Game is gonna be the one who's nonsense you tolerate or even enjoy.
I remember I was chatting with a guy and he mentioned how he thinks the biggest mistake Strive did was add gold burst because he felt that it make it too easy for “scrubs” to get full meter without trying and he felt that the addition of this new mechanic was insulting to the “true guilty gear fans” who used to work for their meter in previous games.
He championed Plus R and Xrd without knowing that this so called “scrub mechanic” has been in both games and watching him try and run his sentence back was embarrassing. Elitists will just make shit up, it’s ridiculous.
I saw this like crazy when the original BlazBlue came out cuz I fell in love with it but everyone was calling it Guilty Gear for babies at first. Now people are calling Strive the baby game compared to BlazBlue. The cycle never ends boys!
That's what it seemed like at BBCT's arcade launch, because they probably watched a-cho / joybox or whatever jp arcade footage on youtube, and at week 1 most players were Ragna and their combos were just 5BC[D],214A214D all week.
i had a friend who was super like this. Key word being had here, bc they just extended this mentality to EVERYTHING in their life. Cutting out the toxicity is good, and i try to be as positive as I can
Hot take: all Guilty Gear games are fun on their own way
While I haven't played them myself yet even Missing Link and Isuka seem like they'd be a lot of potential fun, ML with how absurdly crazy and unhinged it is and Isuka being a goofy Drunk/Party game for laughing at nonsense.
Accent core plus R has FBs and strive gave me vertical alpha blade the teleports are cool but I like the changes to RC that make using Chipp’s movement fun.
Xrd is fun
Yeah they each have different flavors.
@ yeah overture for life
Best take, actually.
That's exactly why Akatsuki Blitzkampf is the only real fighting game, everything else is filler
Hello, fellow 3 hit combo enjoyer
My first Guilty Gear was Strive, until Strive I had no eyes for GG, because it always seemed like Tekken where it's a lot of legacy players (shows what I knew) I heard Strive was going to be completely new was I decided to pick it up.
Love it. Started to get interested in others, but now with all this hate for Strive from Xrd players, I'm at a point where I don't want to play other GGs because the only "great" things I see about it are "Strive bad Xrd good". Just can't jive with a game that's built up like that.
That sucks that you've had that experience and had the negative opinions of some people poison the well like that. But I don't blame you for feeling that way, but I'll just say Xrd and plus r are truly incredible experiences that I think every fighting game player should experience! I love strive, but I also really like that each GG is so different from one another that I have a reason to go back to them. I get why people that love previous GG entries aren't keen on change, but I'd highly recommend giving them a shot!
Both Xrd and plus r keep that element of really strong meter management, powerful gameplans, and unique character and gameplay design. But all of these work in different ways since your base systems affect things differently!
I don't feel experienced enough to say, "oh the combos are great cuz of this and that, and the neutral's immaculate because of..." So I won't even try to (plus that stuff is so subjective to begin with). I'll just say that they are incredibly fun games that I greatly love playing in addition to strive! Guilty gear is just so SICK!
Melee to other smash games is probably even worse and going since Brawl to Ultimate to this dat
I learned it the hard way because my group of friends started playing fortnite yet again and I felt betrayed. I got mad because they all have games like Guilty Gear yet they chose the "uncultured" game. In return I received hatred because I was criticizing my closest people for enjoying themselves.
Fate/Unlimited Codes and Hokuto No Ken are my favorite fighting games I don't play beyond a casual level.
Instant death and ginormous combos and incredible conversions that you break your hands to do are amazing and I absolutely love watching them even if I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end and dont have the capability to do them myself
Does FUC have netplay yet?
@@Pacemaker_fgc I know the PSP version does because the emulator does, dunno about the PS2 version, I think the community probably uses parsec
"...boy do I have a lot of negative things to say... and same thing with Street Fighter V, which is why I no longer have a f%&king job." lol
We got SFV, Strive, and Type Lumina, now all we need is another Blazblue so we can start calling people Blazbabies again and perpetuate the cycle of shitting on other people's games for no discernible reason.
On SF is almost a tradition to hate the new one and years later love it just to hate the next one. Happen to 3, 4 and V.
People will love V once 6 come out.
I'm ready to bust a gut if anyone sings 5's praises after 6's release. Only way I won't is if Capcom somehow launches SF6 with worse debut than 5.
@@seokkyunhong8812
Honestly, I'm not a SF fan, but V was legit messed up from the inconsistent graphics to the terrible monetization to sacrificing offline to make online look slightly more tolerable to the freaking rootkit.
Capcom has dropped the ball hard on that generation of their fighters, no new/old bias here.
@@_-Lx-_
All the first versions of every new SF (2,Alpha,3,4) were trash.
And monetization, the SF2 series was sold as 5 full priced console games.
@@seokkyunhong8812 it'll happen. even if 6 has a stellar launch with no bugs and a huge roster and all the features people want, there will be a VERY LOUD crowd of people talking about how all the system differences, whatever they are, make the game suck ass and why 5 is so much better.
and they won't shut up until 7 comes out!
Guilty Gear Strive is lame, I much prefer Guilty Gear Strive
People are totally entitled to their opinions but some people act like whatever game they don’t like killed their dog or something, it’s so odd to me. Why not put that time and energy being toxic towards a game you actually like?
Exactly!
I said this on stream, but I was the guy back in the day who ragged on Blazblue because it wasn't GG. My attitude was wack then, it's wack now, and I've never been happier just dicking around with weird old games or sick games that didn't get their proper recognition.
People should realize that it's just a game and not a place to display their insecurities. It's okay not to like a game, it's not okay to attack other people and ruin their fun
I do infact use Sajam vids while I eat dinner.
Yeah theres a difference between critique and just vitriol. people forget the difference. I fucking love 3rd strike and play it all the time, but that game is janky as hell. I remember Bafael talking about the development of Online edition, devs were asking if people wanted a balanced ver of it or just the same game, people said the game is perfect. Hell nah, i wish we had a 4th strike with a playable twelve and tweaks. This "putting-your-game-on-a-pedestal that-can-do-no-wrong narrative is not it, chief. Just enjoy your game for what it is and dont shit on other people and their games
Preach
It's not that they put their game on a pedestal and think it's perfect, it's that like. Why change a game that you already like? I think Xrd is fine where it is now, even if there are some things I would personally adjust, and that if they ported it over or whatever, it would suck if they changed it into a version I liked less. MvC2 fans LIKE how broken the game is, changing that would be changing the entire core audience of the game.
People hate change even when that change makes things better.
I'd absolutely be down with a version of 3rd Strike with a viable Twelve.
@@kevl0rneswath This is the crux of the matter. People are inherently conservative, risk-averse, and short-sighted.
The weirdest thing that most people outside of the SNK scene probably didn't experience is not only did people do this with KOFXIII when KOFXIV came out, but most of those same people did it for XIII when XIII was new. Shit didn't make any damn sense. Tons of people talking about how great KoFXIII is and how it's the best FG out right now, but then you ask them for games and they're like "Oh I don't play this game." These dudes would be like "Man SF4/SFxT are so wack, KoFXIII is the best game" and then you'd try to get games in and they'd be like "Nah I won't play this game offline at locals or majors because the netcode is bad" during a time when all netcode across the board was bad. It was so god damn goofy.
I swear to god people pretend to play a game because it looks pretty then never bother giving it an actual try. Like there's nothing stopping you from messing around with a game when it goes on sale
Honestly though KOFXIII was one of the only games of the PS360 generation that made me want to keep playing fighting games. Almost everything else just felt painful, spent most my time just playing old games on GGPO.
My less acceptable take, the second best game of that generation was SFxT after the 2013 patch. Seriously like on the same level as CvS2 to me. I doubt it'll ever get to that same level of SF3 where everyone hated it back in the day but love it now just because fighting games are released so rapid fire these days, but I seriously feel it's on that level.
Still hoping for any game this generation to feel the same to me as KOF13, SFxT 2013 or Vanilla MvC3 did back then. Nothing in the PS4 gen even came close.
they're all talk
I absolutely honestly loved XIII from day 1 and played for years until XIV came out and I hated XIV with passion, I even bought a PS4 thinking of later playing KOF XIV but I simply couldn't, so I kept playing XIII until I moved to Guilty Gear Xrd (I had played XX in the past) and never again looked back. I honestly found so much horrible stuff in XIV that I couldn't play it even since beta... BUT I now tested KOF XV and it looks and feels great to me so I already bought it on XSX and PC...
Some times there is a sequel we really hate or dislike but not all of them coming out later, so I understand people not liking a newer game that changes a lot, the issue is when those persons do as you and Sajam explained, praising a game they previously bashed at heart
I enjoyed Kof XIII on Xbox 360 and got all the achievements in the game doing HD combos with an Xbox 360 pad's analog stick was hard af but rewarding it's my favourite fighting game for the X360 generation and I can't wait for Kof XV
I thought of some reasons how attacking other games are "beneficial" for the people who do it (or they think it is):
1. Players' time is limited - "killing" another game will (probably? haha) increase the chance people will pick up the player's favorite game, especially if they insult the same game in the series
2. Tournament slots are limited - "killing" another game will free up a slot in majors, increasing the chance (probably? haha) that the player's favorite game will get featured
Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it. You get entitled, thinking that another game is 'taking players away' from your own, even though there's no guarantee that those folks would play your game at all (funny enough, Strive's success ABSOLUTELY encouraged people to try previous versions they never would have touched in the past). Also, they think if they can 'make' the new game flop with bad word of mouth, then the next one will be more like what they want...ignoring the fact that if the game does flop, you hurt the chances of EVER getting another one.
To be fair, active players ARE a finite resource, and essential to a community. 'Just keep playing your old game' is less comforting when you're running out of people to play with. And people leaving an older game you love for a new one you think isn't worthwhile can be frustrating...but thinking you get to control that is where folks start to get unreasonable.
This sounds quite sinister.
a lot of the time it is less of a player issue and more of a "we won't get another game like this" thing. its the anger of seeing people vote with their wallets towards something you don't like knowing that it'll only influence more games to not be to your tastes
@@hefdef9961 That's a fair point. As a Thousand-Year Door fan, part of me is resentful any time a new Paper Mario game does well. I'm probably never gonna see another edition of the franchise that I would actually enjoy. Which sucks! But the thing about voting with your wallet is that sometimes, you lose, and eventually you have to accept the results. You can talk up your game and try to convince people to come around, sure, but when you start trying to ruin other people's good time to help your own cause, you've lost the moral high ground.
@@hefdef9961 This is how I feel a good amount. There are times where I wish games like Samurai Showdown and Killer Instinct got more attention and generally succeed more, but they don't because other games I'm less interested in like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat and Tekken are getting far more attention. I don't want them to Die or some bad shit, but man, give some of that damn attention to those games please 😆! It's like seeing a fat man having a feast not willing to give a crumb to a guy whose bones you can see.
Really this is a symptom of a bigger problem, they're not getting enough attention because the FGC community is a small one, one that's at war with itself, with companies having inconsistent quality with the games they're releasing (no Rollback, no advertising, bad tutorials, bad matchmaking, etc)
Though hey! Fighting Games are getting a lot more attention now than they were 10 years ago. Hopefully these issues will all be sorted out one day.
Transcending history and the world, a tale of old game and new game bad, eternally retold.
Perfection. I can hear the narrator saying it clear as day.
That's why I can't wait until KOF15 comes out. To hear the complaints
No need to wait, you can already find some people saying kof died after [insert their favorite title] and that XV is trash.
I mean, I don't see Kim's pants so yeah.
Seriously, it's really weird not seeing Kim.
@@seokkyunhong8812 It's weird, but if Kim etc being out means more characters like CYS and Chizuru coming back I'm good.
@@seokkyunhong8812 honestly speaking Kim needs a break
I've been enjoying Kof since 94 and can't wait for Kof XV to come out
Regardless of what we're playing, I'm still gonna find a character to run full screen and command grab you then cackle while down 2 games to 10.
All these old games getting rollback really exposed the posers, not that there was ever any doubt. Like, if even half of the dudes posting why a game they don't play is bad, and why this game that they _also_ don't play is Real Fighting Games, those games would be topping the charts.
Yha, though idk a lot of them could actually be more like how I got into GG. Got hype for stive, Picked up Xrd, picked up AC when it got rollback, then got disappointed with what was missing when Strive did come out. I won't say those games are the best ever made, but I think there are still a lot of people that got disappointed that actually did play these games and enjoy them. Obviously you shouldn't call Strive a baby game or that anyone that plays it isn't playing a 'real game', but I think it's okay to think, 'I don't think Strive is a good GG because they removed these things I liked when they simplified the mechanics, which I think was unnecessary and a bad gameplay decision.'
@@deddrz2549 That last statement is so fucking rare, I had to reread it because of how strange it is to see outside of potshots, insults, and attacks on the skills of the developer.
In general video games have a problem where the consumer has been conditioned that more mechanics, more complexity, more MORE is good. When being a glutton is considered ideal, subtraction of anything (for any reason) is seen as wrong. I still remember the intense knee-jerk negativity ICO and Shadow of the Colossus got upon release. A game having less does not make it worse.
@@deddrz2549 it’s not a good mindset to ever say “x isn’t good.” Just say it isn’t for you. Design/artistic choices (and whether we like it or not, fighting games are just as much of art as art games) aren’t good or bad, and I’m tired of saying they are.
If deadly premonition and clay fighter can be beloved, then simplifying mechanics doesn’t need to be “a bad gameplay decision.” It can just be one you don’t vibe with.
This is such a good point, but I feel like it's a point that will have to be made again... and again... and again... I think it'd be funny if Sajam just released this video every couple years and overdubbed with whatever "NEW GAME BAD" is happening.
Personally, I've never met a Guilty Gear I didn't like. Though I've only played the original, XX, Xrd Rev2, and Strive. Maybe I missed a bad one. Of the Guilty Gear games I've played, there's good and bad in all of them. I am very much digging Strive and its approach to characters within its new/altered systems but I completely understand how some of these changes would upset some players. I just don't care. Like, the very first thing I tried to do when Baiken was released today, was to see if I could do the same dustloops from Xrd, because those were fun. I found an approximation, but it isn't exactly the same. That sort of encapsulates these experiences for me. Different, but still fun and recognizable. If you're not down for that, the other games still exist. It isn't as if installing Strive uninstalls Xrd or +R. "Play what you like and STFU" is the best advice. No one ever convinced me to play a game being an asshole.
Agreed.
Though I will say you've missed A LOT of bad GG games. Strive is like the 8th or 9th entry in the franchise.
I'd say other than X1 and the ones you mentioned, the series has had more misses than hits.
And that's okay because the devs from ArcSys learned from each mistake.
When are people going learn all great fighting games have their own flavor of BS.
and they should be shat on respectively for it
And here I am, where even though I play Strive the most by far, I still can't decide which Guilty Gear game I actually like the most because I just love the whole series.
I agree with the thumbnail. Sidewinders (and Sols voice acting in general, Daisuke Ishiwatari is God) give me the biggest dopamine rush.
I appreciate pretty much every fighting game I don't get how people have such strong negative opinions about games they could just not play and forget about
that elphelt situation was fake.
there was zero proof that people werent playing that guy because he played elphelt. the person said it happened to 'his friend' and showed absolutely zero proof despite other elphelt players showing vids of themselves using discord to get matches just fine
they then used the situation to guilt trip people for sharing character hate memes and do a bunch of concern trolling about how its mean to make fun of characters in general
the day after BlazBlue rollback launched, when rev 2 had completely empty lobbies isn't a great time to get rando matches
having a hard time getting lobby matches in a dead game is normal, not a conspiracy against waifu guys
Fuckin elphelt players /j
That Elphelt player’s name? Hotashi.
The Xrd revisionism is real. My wounds from fighting pre-patch Raven have never healed
I still remember defecating on Xrd from on high with almost the exact same babygame shit. And I heard the same thing for SCVI, the same shit for MvC3, even MvC2 got this from MvC1 fans back in the day. "Simplification" is just an excuse, they reject any change at all.
Reasonable people are a rare breed on the net.
7:56 No disrespect to your contemporaries but I really miss hearing you on the comms for SFV but I also really respect you being honest about the game. It's a shame Capcom did what they did.
One thing I really enjoy in my experiences with the English Kof community is how... not self hating they are. While I know it probably was worse in the past, and I’ve only somewhat recently joined the snk community so I might not have experienced it yet, nowadays I don’t really see things like 98 players ganging up on 13 players and calling their game a “baby game that’s not real Kof”, and I don’t see 14 fans calling 2002 enthusiasts “boomers who can’t handle change”(remember people, it’s a double sided coin). We all just kinda agree to dunk on 12 and 2001. Rightfully so. Now of course I haven’t seen everything, and I do know that nothing is perfect, but from my experience, I just wanted to commend the Kof fans , cause I really respect their “play what you want” attitude.
I agree with you hell I also do this.
If I want to play a game with fast paced and execution heavy combos I play Kof XIII if I want to play a game with stylish tag and assist combos I play Kof XI and Kof 2000
Enjoy as much as you can, the KOF Latinoamerican community, shits on every fucking game that is not 2k2 vanilla and '98, not only that sometimes they get mad at characters getting and upgrade, literally I see a guy getting pissed of about XV Ryo now being able to do Daigo parries, Not to talk about boomers calling every post 2k2 vanilla game a Mugen, so to summarize there's a civil war in the Latinoamerican community.
I find myself not wanting to interact with the FGC at large because of this. With 3d fighters, I prefer DOA to Tekken. It's simply more fun to me. If one were to go to a FG subreddit however, this opinion would be anathema and seen as heretical. So, I tend to just stick to myself and play the games I like.
I prefer Tekken but I never really delved into DOA outside of a few free to play games. What's the selling point of DoA over Tekken for you?
@@smithmichael8144 One part is that I feel like DOA is a more accessible game, especially with movement. I also really prefer the grab system in DOA. If you land a command grab, it can't be teched. The only techable grabs are neutral grabs and chains. I tend to play grapplers, so this is a little more appealing to me. I also like the aesthetics and characters more. No one in Tekken really grabbed me. That said, I can also understand why others prefer Tekken. I always like seeing it, just playing it isn't for me.
@@smithmichael8144 As someone that likes to put on a fighting game for guests or family members to play, DOA has been the easiest one to get into. They intuit the movement far easier because "it's like real life" and the attacks are straightfoward and don't really require motion inputs to make cool things happen. Soul Calibur is a close second here because non-gamers really love big fantasy weapons. SCVI's one-button super moves are a crowd favorite, try it next time you have guests.
@@RicochetForce Yup.
People forget casual players make up over half the playerbase of ANY modern fighting game.
There's even data to support this claim.
If you count the players at each rank in a ranked ladder for ANY game, you will ALWAYS find that the _bottom third_ of the rank alone has more players than the rest _combined._ It's true for Street Fighter, Tekken, Brawlhalla, League of Legends, Call of Duty, etc.
Dunno why the FGC at large likes to shit on casuals so much when they are the ones making up the sales and the reason developers continue working on the genre.
@BrokenMoonStudios I totally agree. People should take a moment to recognize that most games live and die because of casual sales. I see this in the seemingly unanimous hate of Danger Time in Xrd. I get why competively it would bother most people, but every casual friend I've gotten to play Xrd with me absolutely loses their mind whenever Danger Time happens. It's amazing. I wish they'd at least keep it as something you could toggle on and off.
You know, I’m starting to think people don’t actually like any fighting games they play
Sajam sayimg stuff we should all collective say out loud, but dont.
Another good video.
Time is a flat circle and the Xrd players of today will rise for Strive when GG5 releases in 10 years
Crazy to think that I remember hearing this same "Old game good, new game bad" discussion some 10 years ago.
And you will hear it 10 years from now as well. We're already getting the warmups with folks stating Project L will be the shittiest fighting game because it has simplified inputs.
Reasons I hate GG Strive:
It run like ass on my computer
Reasons I like GGACR:
It run ok on my computer
I really appreciate you sajam fr fr
That Zidane tweet is godlike
PSO2:NGS (or any MMO) and FFXIV
God this video is so validating for a lot of frustrations I have with gamers nowadays...
4:50
I love watching Skullgirls and VSAV to the point that they're extremely high up on what i consider to be the fighting games i think are really good, yet while I have played them, i barely put enough time in to even fully remember the base mechanics of the games. Doesn't stop me from thinking skullgirls is one of the most aesthetically great fighting games ever and VSAV is the coolest shit and needs a new installment.
I guess the sad reality is that the GG title I think is the best doesn't really exist. I've played Strive more than the others by now, yet the shadow of all those great features and fun I had with gameplay mechanics loom over as my mind toils, not thinking those games being better in every way, but with the idea that GGST could have been a much better version of itself if it retained more things from previous games, or rather didn't go out of it's way to remove things that oldheads like and newheads are impartial to anyways.
I think if Xrd gets rollback all the "xrd mains" will probably just leave the toxicity aside and just stay to their game or just shut up. It happened with +R and BBCF since there was all this bravado and shit before the games got rollback and once they did, those people who actually missed and liked this games just stayed to their lanes and let people enjoy Strive.
Guess what just happened? Let’s hope you’re right
@@bageltoo He wasn't right
The third game to say you love without playing it to sound like you know what you're talking about is KoFXIII
At least Baiken is in Strive. I started playing GG (Accent Core and Xrd) recently and my favorite weirdos - A.B.A., Zappa and Bedman are nowhere to be seen.
2 years later you got 2 outta 3
I don't think you should ever tear down a game to prop one up.
But you should definitely point out that bad games are still bad.
Facts, you seem to be a voice of reason at often times.
As a person who can’t seem to get into the fighting game community and fighting games as a whole, I love watching every fighting game. They may not be my thing but I’ll watch old, new, unbalanced, weird. I just love the way the look. They’re all so cool but I suck. I feel like you have to put so much into them and I don’t even have a healthy enough mental for them. But every single one looks cool
so anyway, Sol's Xrd hair > sajam's closet
“Bu Bu Bu Bu Bu But New game bad, old game good Sajam!!” 😡
Can we all just agree that the only good fighting game is Street Fighter 1. All other games are just hollow derivatives of that game.
Make it Street Fighter 2 and it wouldn't be too far from the truth (excluding 3D fighters and smash style games)
@@Bladieblah This a perfect time to remind people that SF2 had random damage and stun values on attacks (within certain ranges of course, not completely actually random, but still...)
I have only played a little bit of strive, but whenever I see any guilty gear gameplay, whatever game it is I go "whoa that looks cool"
Find one video your boi Sajam doesn't touch his hair 17 times. You can't unsee it once you know.
I would love to hear you talk about games you don't like/think are bad and break down why you think that tbh
I don't have any unfunny jokes or bad takes this time, so I'll just leave this comment here for the algorithm
Damn bro, that's sad.
@@Setteri_ Opa
@@Sorrelhas Salve
Can’t wait for guilty gear xth to come out and people start saying that strive was actually straight up Jesus of Nazareth in video game form
I mean... strive....
strIVe...
@@deadgunslinger8489 I meant xth as in fifth i can’t think of anything better tbh
@@THENEPTUNEGAMER oh, i thought It was fourth, sorry
@@deadgunslinger8489 na it’s fine it’s not exactly easy to tell tbf
You're no longer a Commentator... You've ascended to God-Hood with this. Preach On 💪🏾💪🏾
Honestly, this perspective is one of the big reasons I subscribed to your channel and watch your videos. I hate this type of person in the FGC, the type who can't see a character or game on the screen without reacting like "THIS GAME/CHARACTER FUCKING SUCKS, WHY DO YOU PLAY THIS WTF"
“Which is why I no longer get have a fucking job”💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
4:33
Haven't even finished the video yet but I just KNOW the game you were thinking of but forgot was KOF XIII.
People treat that game like it was made by Jesus Himself.
EDIT: Okay he never brought it up again. Still confident it was KOF XIII.
Only time I've ever been able to really embrace that was when Sol was the guy to hate. Like yeah his damage is gross but he's so damn cool.
Seriously his command grab is so cool.
I love Sol lol he's just so fun
XX is so good if only for going in training and getting ooga booga tingles from sidewinders
I get your point, but i think context is very important, if i was making a joke about a friend's favorite fighting game (with the intention of making them laugh) for example i think it's totally fine or even on social media if i meant it as a joke, but if i was straight up ruining the vibe by just listing every negative things about my friend's fav fighting game i think that's shitty.
Yes, Sidewinder gives me dopamine rush. What about it?
I didn't know DEB was Ramlethal :0
Good video, good insights. Keep up the good work.
I often look at the MvC3U community and the fact that its having a bit of a mild resurgeance due to new mods and continued tourney presence. It's such a beloved game, happens to be one of my favorites.
That was NOT how a lot of vocal people felt about it when it released, lemme tell ya. It's always sorta amusing looking at it now.
I love xrd. Its probably my favorite fighting game. It was my first anime fighter and my first guilty gear. I do like it over strive, but I still love strive. They both do things differently and have pros and cons comparatively.
That moment when Johnny flashes on the screen tho. Fucking lmao
It's easier to tear down than to build up.
I think there is also another reason why people lambaste new games. It's because they're popular, and they don't like that because they think it's stealing players who could be playing their preferred game instead. Who doesn't want their game to get more players (especially if it's niche)?
This is the /r kappa callout vid
The energy of this vídeo is amazing, really, spread good energy, talk about good stuff and ignore the Aholes, life is for sure more fun :)
is DEB eating a cheeseburger some sort of weird cannibalism?
I wish we could Jiyuna, i wish we could.
Joke aside, this cycle never breaks. You had people that has been doing this since the dawn of time, people used to talk like this about MvC 2 compared to MvC 1. It's like people preferences can't never be opinions, they have to be accepted as facts and the sooner you realize that, the more you can keep your sanity because those people don't change, they never do.
Can’t we all just get along
Hokuto no ken is sick, but I would never play it.
This is the part of the FGC I absolutely hate.
While I'm not that good of a fighting game player and don't play them all that frequently anymore, I do still like fighting games and often look up tournaments and even scant JP arcade recordings for them. But I tend to like the more niche fighters. "Nitroplus Blasterz", "Daemon Bride", "Spectral vs Generation", "Chaos Code", and yes..."Arcana Heart", and much more. I really like these fighters and often return to them one way or another, even above the more popular fighters. That's just how my fighting game interests have developed...and I almost regret that now.
The issue I constantly run into is that the FGC simply will not let these fighters exist peacefully. If they are brought up in any capacity, the good ol' expert fighting game players will dunk and decry all of them for any possible reason. I've heard it all. From the simple dismissive kusoge/poverty fighters claim, to "ew, aaannniimmmeeee", to as bad as accusing them and the players that play them of actual heinous crimes. It's just so tiring and demotivating.
I jokingly say that fighting games worst enemy is the FGC itself, but in recent times, I'm actually starting to believe that. There is just so much bigoted segregation and toxicity going on in nearly every corner.
This is why, at age 31 and way past my peak, I still play fighting games and not give a crap about what people say about the game. I wanna learn HnK because of Will It Kill, played and enjoyed Kyanta for a bit (learning curve is too steep for someone who wants to play casually + not much players in SEA)...
When people said Marvel is dead after UMVC3, I felt lost. Tournaments here reverted to MvC2 or replaced MVC3 for DBFZ that I had no place in the community because the game I truly enjoyed playing was "dead".
I dont really care about the simplification of GGS (even if i dont personally like it) my big problem with the GGS is a lot of the legacy characters felt like they have lost their identity as a character. Which saddens me because I love watching GGS content even if i dont play the game that much but everytime i see Sol wild throw or his heavy mob cemetery i just think somethings missing and get disappointed but hey some people might love that about him now which is awesome because i can always go back to x2 and see awesome sidewinder combos while players that like new sol get what they want too. this discussion is so weird, I feel like everyone apart of it should get a lesson on what is fact and a opinion is seems they missed that class in elementary school
Imo GGST plays a lot better than strive
One of the Sols in the thumbnail is a Sol with Orders. ;|
But in all seriousness whenever Sajam makes specific vods like this one, I can't help but think the dumb endless war of not just "Melee vs. Ultimate" but "Melee vs. any smash game (or any platform brawler) not named melee" while also looking at melee deeply myself and be like "ok this smash game has some issues, but so does Melee even tho it also has some clean jazz" but i feel for Sajam at 8:15 where you can rightfully jab at a game you're in love with or find stuff you're not really a fan of your game having without deterring anyone else to play it. Like i love Ultimate, but its Online and buffer system is actual unresponsive hell, I love watching Strive and siked to finally play it, but its lobby system is an unnecessary minigame and its movement (especially forward airdashing) looks rough. I love +R, but the person who designed Zappa and Testament was on pure drugs. I like watching melee, but it was a 1-2 character game itself at one point (thank you Fox n' Falco in 2016-2018) and melee also has some campy af Timeout-potential MUs itself like the other smash games. All in all, no fighter is perfect, and they just all have stuff that feels like needles to the heart to at least one person playing them, and they just have to live it cuz there's at least stuff peeps love about a fighter anyways that gives them incentive to still play it despite its flaws.
I know I’m late but you can replace xrd and +r with melee and strive with ultimate and it would be the exact same thing that melee players do to the newer games
sajam is the wise guru of fighting games
"cyclical discussion" while games keep on getting simplified
Considering most of my favorite fighters are ones that people like to dump on, I strongly second this