Another cool in depth video! I’m sure I speak for most people that we appreciate the time you take to explain every step your doing, great gains once again! Good job guys👍🏻
I bought the 2024 Ninja ZX10R a few weeks ago and put an Akrapovic exhaust on it. Thank you for sharing this video! Learned some very interesting things about this bike!
Great video! Question for you. Is it smart to do a DIY Bread box removal at home and just ride your bike as if you didn’t change anything? Or would you suggets going to a shop and make more modifications? Keep up the good work!
It depends on what you want out of your bike. If you want more/smoother power band, more efficient running bike, then I'd say at least do a bench flash. If you want to take it to the next level, then I'd suggest removing cat and getting it all dialed in on a dyno for best results 👌
Evidence base excellent content ! Truly informative and confidence inspiring in your expertise ! I have Ackrapovic dual slip ons (with cats) waiting to be installed on a 2022 ZX14R, however a dealership advised ECU flash and tune is not worth the cost v gain. Your content proves otherwise, however if my only further concern is reliability & additional wear Questions : For example would one expect any maintenence, reliability or wear impact due to ignition advance changes ? Can I leave the O2 sensor in on a tune up such a you illustrated for ZX14r ?
Thanks for the good words. The flash still helps even though you are retaining the cat. You can alter: IAP Fuel Maps TPS Fuel Maps Ignition Timing Maps Secondary Throttle Plate (STP) Opening Maps Fuel Trim Map/s Idle RPM RPM Limiter Fan Temperature Quickshifter - (Requires Race Tools) Launch Control - (Requires Race Tools) Disable Stock O2 Sensor Disable Deceleration Fuel Cut Disable Top Speed Limiter All through the ecu. So even if you don't get a tune, you can still utilize other aspects of an ecu flash
I have a video request i have always wondered how the graphs look with 1. A mail in tune, cat delete and the o2 sensor still connected versus same as 1. But with the o2 sensor disconnected. I know the sensor should be disconnected but I have always wondered the power curve difference between the two.
The factory O2 sensor only controls low throttle positions and from roughly 6k RPM and lower, above 1/4 throttle the factory O2 has no effect on almost all new bikes, the BMW 1000RR is one exception to this.
What Quickkurt said... the o2 sensor doesn't mess with the heavy throttle settings. The o2 sensors on newer bikes are getting more and more control and it's getting harder and harder to get around these built in settings for emissions control. So to answer your question, it wouldn't change at all in the full throttle dyno graph. Now if we tested a partial throttle (say 20% range or so) it would most likely be a massive difference.
Just a question I was wondering how do you tune a bike that has ram air on a dyno? It would seem the faster you went the more air the intake gets and the afr would lean out correct? I was just curious because it seems like a bike standing still on dyno and a bike going down the road have much different air box pressure. Thanks for your time!
@@SKEEZOTHEREALSKEEZO The tune may be done the same way, but the tune on a dyno does not account for velocity of ram air at 100+ mph where the AFR will certainly change. Maybe not by much, but it will change. A good tuner knows this and adjusts accordingly at the higher spectrum of throttle position and RPMs. Most I see is an AFR of 'about' 12.8 at WOT. But this may vary due to regional location, altitude, and temperatures. And in all my time riding, I've only seen one dyno that had some built in ram air effect where the faster you spun the rear wheel, the more air was forced into the snout of the bike. Would this make a difference than a floor fan spinning at a constant rate? I would think yes. How much of a difference, I cannot say.
This dyno doesn't account for ram air. I have a pretty decent squirrel fan that pushes out a decent velocity but no where near 100+ mph air. With that being said there are compensation tables built into the ecu (on some bikes) where it calculates fuel changes based on the amount of ram air at any given rpm. The proper way to fully tune a bike is to get it close on dyno then go take it and datalog on street/track and make small changes accordingly. 🤙 Hope that helped answer your question.
Thank you for your passion and dedication to your job! It's inspiring! wish we had people like you everywhere! Keep it up! I am looking tuning my little 450sr now, not something crazy just balance and smooth everything.What questions should I ask a tuner at the shop? Also, what signs indicate a good job by the tuner? Thank you for your time
@mrshazam. I would say listen to the questions they ask you primarily. They should be getting to know your bike, the mods done, what kind of rider you are, mileage, etc. Questions you could ask the tuner are, how long they have been doing it, how long do their tuning sessions take, what is their process exactly? Do they tune partial throttle or only full throttle/heavy throttle settings?
@viewingjoint1 if it has no tune or flash on it then I would say leave it in. The afr should be closer this way and the bike should ride a little bit better with it in vs out. Confirm this on a dyno or datalogger though. Every bike is different and some will react differently
Can you cut the length of the db killer much shorter so that you can get some db reduction? My ninja 1000sx with a full exhaust and no silencer is damn loud
@@provenpowercycles I would really appreciate that and I think others might also. I do like the added noise and power sometimes, but honestly, if I want a leisurely ride “90% of the time” truth be told, I like a less noisy bike. I’m sure you might agree with that. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Is there a company/product that produces some sort of real time tuner for the bike that you know of? Because I assume the issue with a flash and even dyno is that it’s for those exact conditions (temperature, humidity, etc).
They make auto tuners for bikes but most of them don't work very well from what I've learned. If you shell out a few thousand dollars you can run a standalone ecu system (such as motec, maxx, haltech, holley, fuel tech, etc) and auto tune through those. They work great compared to the lower end/ cheaper setups.
Definitely insane how much it is held back. The 500 won't have restrictions like this but a flash / dyno tune should still help it out provided you have modified it 💪
My wife has a ninja h2 sx se plus with brocks mail in tune, brocks full exhaust and runs good but the quick shifter seems rough down low. Cold start is rich because I see black smoke when rev up until it warms up and then it goes away. Is there anything she can gain by having you put it on the dyno to verify af ratio and hp? We bought the bike with 2,700 miles as it was too much for the previous owner. owner said it was making 240hp but we never say a dyno to prove his claims.
Absolutely there is much to be gained from a dyno tune vs a mail in tune for a bike such as that. Does it have an intercooler on it? 240 is believable depending on supporting mods. 🤙
Is there any way to correct the speedometer on a 2022 GSXR1000? Speedohealer doesn't make anything to correct it due to the front wheel sensor and it's driving me CRAZY! Lol. Thank you.
It seems that this 2024 zx10 is making less power compared to the 2023 ones. I saw like 3-5 videos about 2023 zx10 krt making 192-191-189-194 like that with full exhaust and tune.
Not knowing what point of the video you are referencing, QS issues 'could be' the mechanical operation of the quick-shifter itself being a standard Kawasaki quick-shifter as compared to high end motorcycles like Ducati; or, the quick-shifter needs adjustment in electrical timing such as the milliseconds need to be dialed in (down) to achieve a faster shift response. Take a look at any Dragy slip and you will see the speed line correlates to the acceleration line. If you see a dip in that line, it is most likely where the shift is happening. The larger the drop in that line, the longer the shift is taking to actuate. (Higher milliseconds). The lower the milliseconds that can SAFELY actuate the shift, the faster (less interruption) of speed and acceleration. My bike is shifting at 45 milliseconds. To give a greater perspective, one (1) second is 1000 milliseconds (ms). Half a second is 500 ms. 1/4 of a second is 250ms. The human eye can blink on average, 100 milliseconds. My shift actuation is safely set at 45 milliseconds. In stock form, most bikes are about 100ms to 120ms. So, for every gear you are shifting in a race, you may be losing an extra 55-75ms. May not seem like much, but it 100% makes a difference. And that loss in time equates to a slower Dragy pull from 60-130 for each gear you are shifting through. Lower ms, lower times.
These new Gen 6 ZX10Rs have a very large quickshifter at high rpm and heavy throttle settings. In the program, they show we can alter sensitivity and kill time settings. However, when we make adjustments to those settings, they aren't really changing. We've tried quiet a few variations all yielding same results at higher rpm and heavy throttle.
Smaller motors need more backpressure than larger, higher compression ones. The less ho the more backpressure it will need to produce power. On a Ninja 400 we actually lost ho when we pulled silencer out.
It might be a bit disingenuous to give your baseline numbers on a de-cat bike with stock tune. I guarantee it would have made a bit more hp with the stock exhaust. Sounds weird but that’s what I’ve seen with my R1 and some other modern Superbikes. Not to mention with an Akrapovic full system on a 2020 Gixer 1k, the db killer only resulted in a .06 hp loss up top and a 3 hp loss in the midrange. That was Superbike world champion Sylvain Guintoli’s personal bike. It’s all subjective.
@franklinwilkerson2061 with a stock tune, yes. We have seen both. Slight gains and alight losses. We just did a 636 with a modified header that in times past, we didn't really see any gains on stock tune, but yesterday we picked up 4-5whp doing the same thing! 🤷🏾♂️ However, not a lot of people are rolling around without at least a flash now a days to deresteict the bike. 🤙
What bike do you have? And, what do you mean by stutter? It could be a section of TPS/RPMs that need to be smoothed out if the surrounding cells are not aligned to a certain extend (smooth) so the AFRs may be going up and down. Try and slowly roll on the throttle; slowly, and see where the stutter begins and at what RPMs it ends. Note your throttle position; guesstimate. My hunch is it is low, around 4,000-6,000 RPMs around 10-15% throttle. If it is higher than that, ask yourself "What changed since this started happening?" Changed the exhaust, got a tune, difference gas, major service (spark plugs, etc).
@@Kenevoslcomp777 try unplugging o2 sensor if you haven't already. Could also be a few other things as well. Some tuners don't mess with partial throttle mapping as well. Not all of them go through the whole map.
"I highly doubt it." Then please post your own video and prove his video to be correct or to be bullshit. A db killer will restrict airflow; as do most stock exhaust systems because they must meet rigid emissions. That's why there are aftermarket companies making aftermarket exhausts to open up exhaust scavenging for greater power and almost all say "Not Street Legal." However, there must be a balance between fully open exhaust and correct backpressure; otherwise, you lose horsepower or torque or it just shifts elsewhere. But people like myself who are trying to learn gain a great deal out of his talking. And if you didn't know, you can always Fast Forward the video. BTW, Chris Moore is a "talker" too. So is Brock Davidson. And I've learned a great deal from all three tuners. That is a fact.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Another cool in depth video! I’m sure I speak for most people that we appreciate the time you take to explain every step your doing, great gains once again! Good job guys👍🏻
Thanks bro! It goes a long way seeing comments like this! 🙌
Great video, as always!! I sincerely appreciate all the detail you share to reach the end-state in all your tunes; PROVEN POWER!!
Thanks bro! I appreciate the good words! 🙌 we really love the support and it goes a long way with us 💪💪
I bought the 2024 Ninja ZX10R a few weeks ago and put an Akrapovic exhaust on it. Thank you for sharing this video! Learned some very interesting things about this bike!
No worries! Glad you gained some knowledge from it all!
Videos always solid can't wait to get my stuff together and get down there 👊💯
Yessir absolutely! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Great video! Question for you. Is it smart to do a DIY Bread box removal at home and just ride your bike as if you didn’t change anything? Or would you suggets going to a shop and make more modifications?
Keep up the good work!
It depends on what you want out of your bike. If you want more/smoother power band, more efficient running bike, then I'd say at least do a bench flash. If you want to take it to the next level, then I'd suggest removing cat and getting it all dialed in on a dyno for best results 👌
I just subscribed this morning 3/28/24 buying a 2023 ZX10R KRT brand new. ! Videos are great
Thank you! We are trying for you guys! 💪💪
Yes sir good shit!! Eric Lmk if you need another electrician for the bikes I’ll quit tomorrow brother ☝️
Evidence base excellent content ! Truly informative and confidence inspiring in your expertise !
I have Ackrapovic dual slip ons (with cats) waiting to be installed on a 2022 ZX14R, however a dealership advised ECU flash and tune is not worth the cost v gain.
Your content proves otherwise, however if my only further concern is reliability & additional wear
Questions : For example would one expect any maintenence, reliability or wear impact due to ignition advance changes ? Can I leave the O2 sensor in on a tune up such a you illustrated for ZX14r ?
Thanks for the good words. The flash still helps even though you are retaining the cat. You can alter:
IAP Fuel Maps
TPS Fuel Maps
Ignition Timing Maps
Secondary Throttle Plate (STP) Opening Maps
Fuel Trim Map/s
Idle RPM
RPM Limiter
Fan Temperature
Quickshifter - (Requires Race Tools)
Launch Control - (Requires Race Tools)
Disable Stock O2 Sensor
Disable Deceleration Fuel Cut
Disable Top Speed Limiter
All through the ecu. So even if you don't get a tune, you can still utilize other aspects of an ecu flash
I have a video request i have always wondered how the graphs look with 1. A mail in tune, cat delete and the o2 sensor still connected versus same as 1. But with the o2 sensor disconnected. I know the sensor should be disconnected but I have always wondered the power curve difference between the two.
The factory O2 sensor only controls low throttle positions and from roughly 6k RPM and lower, above 1/4 throttle the factory O2 has no effect on almost all new bikes, the BMW 1000RR is one exception to this.
What Quickkurt said... the o2 sensor doesn't mess with the heavy throttle settings. The o2 sensors on newer bikes are getting more and more control and it's getting harder and harder to get around these built in settings for emissions control.
So to answer your question, it wouldn't change at all in the full throttle dyno graph.
Now if we tested a partial throttle (say 20% range or so) it would most likely be a massive difference.
Just a question I was wondering how do you tune a bike that has ram air on a dyno? It would seem the faster you went the more air the intake gets and the afr would lean out correct? I was just curious because it seems like a bike standing still on dyno and a bike going down the road have much different air box pressure. Thanks for your time!
It's done the same way.
@@SKEEZOTHEREALSKEEZO The tune may be done the same way, but the tune on a dyno does not account for velocity of ram air at 100+ mph where the AFR will certainly change. Maybe not by much, but it will change. A good tuner knows this and adjusts accordingly at the higher spectrum of throttle position and RPMs. Most I see is an AFR of 'about' 12.8 at WOT. But this may vary due to regional location, altitude, and temperatures. And in all my time riding, I've only seen one dyno that had some built in ram air effect where the faster you spun the rear wheel, the more air was forced into the snout of the bike. Would this make a difference than a floor fan spinning at a constant rate? I would think yes. How much of a difference, I cannot say.
This dyno doesn't account for ram air. I have a pretty decent squirrel fan that pushes out a decent velocity but no where near 100+ mph air.
With that being said there are compensation tables built into the ecu (on some bikes) where it calculates fuel changes based on the amount of ram air at any given rpm.
The proper way to fully tune a bike is to get it close on dyno then go take it and datalog on street/track and make small changes accordingly. 🤙
Hope that helped answer your question.
193hp is insane. Awesome 👌
Thank you! 🙌
Thank you for your passion and dedication to your job! It's inspiring! wish we had people like you everywhere! Keep it up!
I am looking tuning my little 450sr now, not something crazy just balance and smooth everything.What questions should I ask a tuner at the shop? Also, what signs indicate a good job by the tuner? Thank you for your time
@mrshazam. I would say listen to the questions they ask you primarily. They should be getting to know your bike, the mods done, what kind of rider you are, mileage, etc.
Questions you could ask the tuner are, how long they have been doing it, how long do their tuning sessions take, what is their process exactly? Do they tune partial throttle or only full throttle/heavy throttle settings?
@@provenpowercycles Thank you mate!
Do you think it’s as restrictive with the baffle in but with no tune?
@viewingjoint1 if it has no tune or flash on it then I would say leave it in. The afr should be closer this way and the bike should ride a little bit better with it in vs out. Confirm this on a dyno or datalogger though. Every bike is different and some will react differently
Can you cut the length of the db killer much shorter so that you can get some db reduction? My ninja 1000sx with a full exhaust and no silencer is damn loud
That's a good idea. Testing the length of a dB killer to see if it won't be as restrictive but still quiet it down some. I like it. I'll test that 💪
@@provenpowercycles I would really appreciate that and I think others might also. I do like the added noise and power sometimes, but honestly, if I want a leisurely ride “90% of the time” truth be told, I like a less noisy bike. I’m sure you might agree with that. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Is there a company/product that produces some sort of real time tuner for the bike that you know of? Because I assume the issue with a flash and even dyno is that it’s for those exact conditions (temperature, humidity, etc).
Yes. It's BMW and their wideband 02 sensors on the S1K's and M1Ks
They make auto tuners for bikes but most of them don't work very well from what I've learned. If you shell out a few thousand dollars you can run a standalone ecu system (such as motec, maxx, haltech, holley, fuel tech, etc) and auto tune through those. They work great compared to the lower end/ cheaper setups.
does removing DB killer on a slip on muffler affect the fuel efficiency of the bike?
45 hp is crazy. I have a 2024 ninja 500 and want to flash it soooooo bad
Definitely insane how much it is held back. The 500 won't have restrictions like this but a flash / dyno tune should still help it out provided you have modified it 💪
My wife has a ninja h2 sx se plus with brocks mail in tune, brocks full exhaust and runs good but the quick shifter seems rough down low. Cold start is rich because I see black smoke when rev up until it warms up and then it goes away. Is there anything she can gain by having you put it on the dyno to verify af ratio and hp? We bought the bike with 2,700 miles as it was too much for the previous owner. owner said it was making 240hp but we never say a dyno to prove his claims.
Absolutely there is much to be gained from a dyno tune vs a mail in tune for a bike such as that. Does it have an intercooler on it? 240 is believable depending on supporting mods. 🤙
Is there any way to correct the speedometer on a 2022 GSXR1000? Speedohealer doesn't make anything to correct it due to the front wheel sensor and it's driving me CRAZY! Lol. Thank you.
Not that I know of. We GPS our speed now a days 👍
It seems that this 2024 zx10 is making less power compared to the 2023 ones. I saw like 3-5 videos about 2023 zx10 krt making 192-191-189-194 like that with full exhaust and tune.
They do vary from motor to motor. But for the most part, they all are in the 190s on pump gas after a tune now, depending on mods. 🤙
I don't understand what you mean by QS issues. Can you elaborate? What exactly is it. I'm thinking of getting mine tuned
Not knowing what point of the video you are referencing, QS issues 'could be' the mechanical operation of the quick-shifter itself being a standard Kawasaki quick-shifter as compared to high end motorcycles like Ducati; or, the quick-shifter needs adjustment in electrical timing such as the milliseconds need to be dialed in (down) to achieve a faster shift response. Take a look at any Dragy slip and you will see the speed line correlates to the acceleration line. If you see a dip in that line, it is most likely where the shift is happening. The larger the drop in that line, the longer the shift is taking to actuate. (Higher milliseconds). The lower the milliseconds that can SAFELY actuate the shift, the faster (less interruption) of speed and acceleration. My bike is shifting at 45 milliseconds. To give a greater perspective, one (1) second is 1000 milliseconds (ms). Half a second is 500 ms. 1/4 of a second is 250ms. The human eye can blink on average, 100 milliseconds. My shift actuation is safely set at 45 milliseconds. In stock form, most bikes are about 100ms to 120ms. So, for every gear you are shifting in a race, you may be losing an extra 55-75ms. May not seem like much, but it 100% makes a difference. And that loss in time equates to a slower Dragy pull from 60-130 for each gear you are shifting through. Lower ms, lower times.
These new Gen 6 ZX10Rs have a very large quickshifter at high rpm and heavy throttle settings. In the program, they show we can alter sensitivity and kill time settings. However, when we make adjustments to those settings, they aren't really changing. We've tried quiet a few variations all yielding same results at higher rpm and heavy throttle.
Weird because I just watched a similar video with a mt07 and they only lost 1 hp
Smaller motors need more backpressure than larger, higher compression ones. The less ho the more backpressure it will need to produce power. On a Ninja 400 we actually lost ho when we pulled silencer out.
@@provenpowercycles Even after flashing, it still loses?
A decent exhaust brocks(ct megs) or akra(Evo) will do a 200 probably... 😁
I have an Akra Evo for sale!
It might be a bit disingenuous to give your baseline numbers on a de-cat bike with stock tune. I guarantee it would have made a bit more hp with the stock exhaust. Sounds weird but that’s what I’ve seen with my R1 and some other modern Superbikes.
Not to mention with an Akrapovic full system on a 2020 Gixer 1k, the db killer only resulted in a .06 hp loss up top and a 3 hp loss in the midrange. That was Superbike world champion Sylvain Guintoli’s personal bike. It’s all subjective.
@franklinwilkerson2061 with a stock tune, yes. We have seen both. Slight gains and alight losses. We just did a 636 with a modified header that in times past, we didn't really see any gains on stock tune, but yesterday we picked up 4-5whp doing the same thing! 🤷🏾♂️
However, not a lot of people are rolling around without at least a flash now a days to deresteict the bike. 🤙
12hp
I don't feel like decat and dbkiller are worth my money and the fuss police can put you through for the sake of horsepower.
And for years, they said wearing a mask does not affect breathing.
I can’t get a fucken low rpm stutter out of my bike so annoying
What bike do you have? And, what do you mean by stutter? It could be a section of TPS/RPMs that need to be smoothed out if the surrounding cells are not aligned to a certain extend (smooth) so the AFRs may be going up and down. Try and slowly roll on the throttle; slowly, and see where the stutter begins and at what RPMs it ends. Note your throttle position; guesstimate. My hunch is it is low, around 4,000-6,000 RPMs around 10-15% throttle. If it is higher than that, ask yourself "What changed since this started happening?" Changed the exhaust, got a tune, difference gas, major service (spark plugs, etc).
@@johnnyappleseedz422 2023 zx10r as soon as i put a arrow slip on it has the stutter in low throttle input 5k-6k pm first gear
That's common after you remove cat and install midpipe/slip on. It needs a tune 👍
@@provenpowercycles it’s tunes been Dynoed flashed with bt tuner and woolich everything separately freshly tuned didn’t work
@@Kenevoslcomp777 try unplugging o2 sensor if you haven't already. Could also be a few other things as well. Some tuners don't mess with partial throttle mapping as well. Not all of them go through the whole map.
5whp loss
Another video of you talking, shocker,, next
Chris Moore is much much better
I call bullshit on the db killer, highly doubt it
What'd he ever do to you? 😮😂
I took my silencer out of my 2020 gsxr 1000's full system (it's flashed) and it gained so much more power from me just taking the baffle out
"I highly doubt it." Then please post your own video and prove his video to be correct or to be bullshit. A db killer will restrict airflow; as do most stock exhaust systems because they must meet rigid emissions. That's why there are aftermarket companies making aftermarket exhausts to open up exhaust scavenging for greater power and almost all say "Not Street Legal." However, there must be a balance between fully open exhaust and correct backpressure; otherwise, you lose horsepower or torque or it just shifts elsewhere. But people like myself who are trying to learn gain a great deal out of his talking. And if you didn't know, you can always Fast Forward the video. BTW, Chris Moore is a "talker" too. So is Brock Davidson. And I've learned a great deal from all three tuners. That is a fact.