His girlfriend should not be forced to make the exact cake he desires but do you know who is forced to make sweet goods against their will. The Oompa Loompas. What about the Oompa Loompas big Joel.
You didn't hear this from me, but I'm working on a plan to break into Wonka's Factory and get all the Oompa Loompas out. Uh, I mean I am totally not planning to destroy a major capitalist's source of revenue to free his slave-captive work-force... that would be like some sort of felony. :P
But what if the roles were switched, and we had a chocolate cake that asked for a man for their birthday. And the vanilla cake spent hours crafting a man, but left his hair a little long and feminine. And then the chocolate cake brow beat the vanilla vake in front of their cupcakes for this one minor detail. Who's the asshole now? Hmmm?
Gonna be honest, knowing how Reddit feels about women, I feel like if the genders were swapped people would get more pissed. Like beyond unreasonably mad
I agree. I also think the simple fact that women are just more likely and more expected to bake a cake for their partner would make us more mad at the woman. I mean this guy made her a cake! that's more than most do
I have seen multiple posts like this with a women, and you are exactly correct on how reddit reacted. They were "unreasonably mad" to the point that mods had to lock the post because of the level of vitriol 😦
If this was a Reddit post where a man baked a cake for a woman and her reaction was "If I wanted vanilla frosting, I would have asked for it," there would be men trying to dox her so they can send her threats of sexual violence
What if the center layer had been dog shit? The possibilities are endless. Do people have carte blanche to add anything to cakes now? And we just have to smile and say it's good?
I think that if the genders where reversed people would be more mean and misogynistic than they already were. They'd be like "how dare she ask for a different cake, men rarely bake. She should be greatful she has a boyfriend that even does anything for her birthday!"
I can practically hear the shithead men who would say "in [x country they only refer to as a monolith] a woman would be beaten for talking like this" like it makes their point more sound
@@grayk3803 For real. The real issue people have is someone else’s bodily autonomy to not eat something they did not want to. Which is wild when being pro-consent is usually a big deal for channels like this and its followers. But I guess a _birthday cake_ is too far? Even though she chose to bake it and then intentionally ignored what he wanted. I guess anyone is anti-consent if you make the situation small enough, which is terrifying.
Talk about cake girl Joel. The woman that had a bad history of cake smashing with her family, and who specifically told her fiancé to not do that at their wedding. Years later, as the big day arrives, she’s feeling the happiest she has ever been, only to have it come crashing down when her husband smashed cake on her face and embarrassed her in front of everyone she knows. She fucking left that wedding, Joel. She left that wedding and left that man. ( I read that story on AITA I’m pretty sure, and it THREW ME )
Good for her! I saw a video of a bride trying to avoid her new husband smashing cake into her face. He decided to follow her around, pin her to a corner, and shove her so she fell down. Then he smashed cake in her face. At their *wedding* !! I wished she'd had the courage to leave.
If someone specifically says they don't want you to do it, then obviously you shouldn't do it, and I guess I can theoretically see how someone could have traumatic assocation with the practice if that's what you're implying by "bad history", but describing having a bit of cake on your face as "being embarrassed in front of everyone you know" kinda makes me think you're taking yourself too seriously.
@@liampoulton-king7479 "having a bit of cake on your face" = having your partner ruin your attempts at looking the best you've ever looked on your wedding after you've explicitly told them you don't like it and don't want it. You get your face shoved in food in front of everyone you've ever known while a spotlight is on you and you're wearing the most expensive garment you'll EVER own. You wouldn't be embarrassed? Grow up.
wait, what? smashing a cake in her face at the wedding? I don't get it, is this a bit? is this some weird internet humor here? people don't do this irl ,right? please tell me people don't do it.
Good for her. I would physically fight anyone that smashed cake in my face. I wouldn't hang out with anyone who laughed either. Those aren't morally good people.
I think past the 3rd in person debate there can be no more compromise. They must engage in brutal fisticuffs to determine wethor or not if he really is the asshole
@@sharlene3819 People who say, “It’s just a cake, why are they physically fighting for a cake?” don’t understand that the cake is more than a cake. It’s a metaphor.
Not gonna lie me and little Joel and everyone else in this fucking discourse are gonna have to throw hands if y’all don’t understand what a devil’s food cake is and that that’s what he asked for and that yes it fucking has vanilla in it. Maybe I am so irate because that was my favorite cake growing up and I had many a birthday cake of it but like bro words fucking mean things you asked for a specific type of cake and got the type of cake and are upset like that’s even more egregious I don’t like why are we calling it chocolate cake now that is not what he asked for this is like top tier gaslighting LMFAO
@@KalCounty Exactly. Emotional maturity is seeing how it is, and deciding A) does this need to be said and B) is there a way to say this that minimizes harm. Just blurting out the first thing you feel without processing it first is incredibly immature, idk why so many people are forgiving it.
I saw the "what if the genders were reversed" thing so much on Twitter and it made me nuts because like...what universe do those people live in? Because in the one I'm from, if the genders were swapped, everyone would lose their minds about what an entitled brat the birthday girl was and then half of Twitter would try to frame it as being indicative of all women's behavior and Matt Walsh would tweet about how it's feminism's fault or some shit.
Yesterday was my birthday, I asked for a carrot cake. My step mom personally made a carrot cake and it was very touching. I don’t really like too much frosting, and there was a ton of frosting. I didn’t say that of course, because she made this cake I really wanted. Because she did this kind act for me, I don’t have the right to complain because that’s awful. She made the cake I wanted on my special day and I was super happy :)
Glad you got a carrot cake man! I’m someone who probably lives in a different country but if I was there I would have eaten the extra frosting for you if you wanted
carrot cake is dope i relate to this a lot lmao, i hate cakes with too much stuff on them, i like when when a cake has as little as possible besides just the cake, but i'd never complain if someone made me a carrot cake with a bunch of extra stuff for me lmao
It’s true that people are more “lenient” to women when it’s a cis woman who sexually assaults a man. But in this case people would definitely be worse and take the chance to say misogynistic shit
@@thebuilder5271in this case the people being more lenient are men who refuse to take women’s crimes against (usually young boys) seriously. Not the mean feminists like people act
The part about him speaking like she owes him servitude really hit the nail on the head for me. She wasn't doing it because he's her superior or something, she was doing it out of love and care. That he reacted without a modicum of consideration for that is extremely telling and I'd honestly also consider ending a relationship over it.
100%, I would end the relationship if the person chastised me like that in front of my children. Even if she were in the wrong, which she isn't, chewing her out in front of her kids is unacceptable. Original OP needed to wait to have his little Nero tantrum
I wouldn't consider it. I'd end it. Imagine being treated like a fucking waiter in your own home in front of your children. And if this is how he treats his LOVED ONE, IN FRONT OF HER CHILDREN, imagine what this guy is like in other similar scenarios where he doesn't have to be nice? This is a guy who screams at waiters.
@@tater3982 oh ABSOLUTELY, it's just golden that he left out that key detail until the end as if it was an afterthought. Imagine being those kids and seeing your mum's boyfriend acting in ways you've been taught are rude. Imagine being this man and feeling not embarrassed, but somehow wronged and self righteous.
@@coldravioli7839 exactly!! He says next time he'll just order a cake and if it's not what he wants he'll return it, but it seems to me that he'd probably be even nastier in that situation because he wouldn't have any sort of relationship with whoever's making him the cake.
@@irisxiv444 I mean, at least he thought to double-check his actions on an internet forum? Granted, a LOT of the people on AITA are actually just looking for validation and will argue to-the-death that they in fact weren't the asshole, no matter how many people say otherwise. I haven't seen the comments on this thread so idk where he lies.
I hate it when people say "everyone is entitled to their opinion" as if to say all opinions are equally valid and worthy of consideration. They are not. Bad opinions do exist.
I have soooo many opinions and some of them would be incredibly hurtful if I said them out loud but I also have some contradictory opinions that people might think are very random but nice and I have opinions that would completely ruin every single one of my relationships because I think I might secretly be kind of an a**shole. However, because I like people and I value and love my friends and family and because my guiding core principles are generally love, kindness and don't be a dick, I keep all my stupid opinions for comments sections. Time and a place. Time and a place.
@Happytravellerkimmy I felt the need to comment this because of that “secretly an asshole” thing you mentioned. You’re not secretly an asshole, assholes don’t think like that. They don’t take the time to be considerate about how their words and actions might affect people, they’re unapologetic about their behavior. I think there’s this misconception that good people are just good and don’t think really hurtful shit or have dark thoughts. But, no. People aren’t just “good” and they aren’t all “evil”. Even the worst person you know probably loves their pet and cares deeply about something good (still doesn’t make them a good person). Being good is not simply a state of being, it’s an action. People choose to do good and be kind even through all the shit they go through or might think about. I’m in a similar boat and it’s tiring because I deal with an oblivious asshole on a daily basis. It would be so easy to choose the nuclear option, to ruin everything and bask in the satisfaction and euphoria of watching it all burn. But, that would have collateral. Other people, good people, would get hurt and I would lose them. I would hate that so I swallow my pride and deal with my anger. It’s a little bit selfish, I know that, but I don’t care. I don’t see anything wrong with doing the right thing for not 100% good reasons.
literally i had a relationship fall apart because my ex was incapable of not telling me what he was thinking, even when it was hurtful towards me and the relationship
ok like this situation could’ve been fine so easily and i know that because it’s happened to me. for me and my girlfriend’s one year anniversary i decided to surprise her with something nice: a dessert picnic after taking her out to dinner with homemade strawberry cheesecake and chocolate strawberries. she was really happy. she ate just one slice of the cheesecake, told me i did well and praised my baking skills. she brought some of it home to her parents and brother the next day and made a point to text me about it when they complimented it. but when we got to the chocolate strawberries, she told me she was sorry but she really didn’t like strawberries. of course i felt like an idiot for not learning this in the year we’d been together and going with an all strawberry dessert spread, but i didn’t resent her at all for this because she was really sweet about it. i think she handled the situation perfectly. for the cheesecake, which was just vaguely strawberry flavored and she didn’t have too much of an aversion to, she spared my feelings and made me feel good about the gesture. for the chocolate strawberries, which she specifically really dislikes, she kindly declined and apologized. tldr everyone should be more like my girlfriend because i love her and i think she’s a good person
While I agree the comparison works and is relevant, there’s an important difference to consider: he likes vanilla. He wasn’t mad because he doesn’t like it, he was made because it wasn’t exactly specifically what he asked for down to the letter. Which makes his reaction even worse than if your girlfriend had reacted more rudely. I had a similar situation. My dad makes this really good cherry brownie cheesecake. I hate cherries while he loves them, so for normal occasions I eat the cherry with the rest because it’s good enough that I don’t care. Once, for my graduation, I asked him to bake it with something other than cherries. He forgot I didn’t want the cherries, but I still ate that cake like a madwoman at the celebration. He’s a busy guy and doesn’t have to remember every little detail, it’s the thought that counts. It’s been said before, but the guy in the AITA post is acting like a genuine toddler.
@@melaniewilson1742 Hell, I think he could even be ok without eating the vanilla part if he is someone who genuinely just cannot handle surprises well. He could compliment her job making the cake. Later, he could let her know that he has a knee-jerk reaction to food being different from what he expected even if it is a good different and that he hoped it didn't hurt her feelings that he didn't eat the vanilla part. But instead he acted entitled and insulted her lol
not to mention how he was automatically framing her as his request being "too simple for her", treating HER like she was the snooty one when it was the opposite. she never intended to "impress him" with the cake and its obvious, hes just looking for excuses to be upset with the cake not being exactly how he imagined it in his head. someone made the analogy that hes acting like a kid whos refusing to eat their meal because broccoli is in it, and i find that very fitting. thank you, whoever that is, youre spitting the truest facts here edit: it makes it even more obvious how ridiculously unfair hes being when you think about how he ALSO LIKES VANILLA ICING. he ate around it not because he has a personal food ick, hes doing it purely out of spite. thats the real nail in the coffin here. this was never about the cake. it was about belittling her and making a mountain out of a molehill just to feed into his own victim complex.
Especially because like, if you want to up the sophistication level of a cake, putting the exact same icing, except possibly less flavourful, into it is.... why. Why would a good baker who wants to "improve" the recipe decide to change *that?* If she'd wanted to a broader flavour palette, she could have added raspberry or orange, or changed the central element to custard or jam. If she wanted to be fancy, she could have done something easy like making ganache in the microwave or dropping chocolate chips or chunks into the batter. Like. *Bro your girlfriend didn't pull out a second tub of Betty Crocker to flex on you, bro.*
Seriously. I actually hate vanilla, but I wouldn't take it as a personal affront that somebody put a small amount of it in a cake. Especially considering almost every recipe for cake includes vanilla extract already, anyway.
my favourite part was how OP waited until near the end of his post to sneak in the reveal that he did all this nonsense in front of her kids, and only in the context of how his girlfriend brought that up, like it hadn't occurred to him that might make things much worse
@@Nortarachanges Adding a juicy bit of "oh no he didn't!" at the end of a post you've already gotten people invested in also seems like a thing people farming reddit would do too lol
> He did this nonsene in front of her kids He wasn't even going to bring it up. He wasn't going to say anything. SHE FORCED THE CONVERSATION in front of her kids and yall are even blaming that on this mans its fucking unreal.
The "I would have ordered a cake from a store and returned it if it was wrong" or however it was worded comment would have been IT for me, I don't blame the girl at all
Yeah that's the Asshole Rubicon for sure - up until about that point, there are arguments to be had about all this, but that's the point of no return for me
@@DeathnoteBB She didn't "make it into an argument." She asked why her partner was obviously upset. That's not an argument. It's an attempt at love and empathy actually. It was *escalated* into something it never needed to be by an exceptionally rude and uncaring response. You can express disappointment in a very minor, insignificant thing without insulting and demeaning your partner's attempt at a loving, thoughtful act in front of their kids. If you're incapable of seeing how homie's respone was wildly disproportionate to the situation at hand then you may also be the type to get broken up with over something as insignificant as a cake having an ingredient you have no problems with outside of this childish "you didn't give me what I wanted ya dumb bitch" routine.
What gets me about this story is that at no point the guy says he didn't *like* the cake. He likes vanilla, so presumably his opposition to the cake wasn't flavor at ALL, it was entirely a petty tantrum over not getting what he wanted. He even ate around the vanilla bit, despite liking vanilla!! If he didn't like the cake, and then expressed that he didn't like the cake, I might take his side, depending on how he does so. But this obsession with getting exactly what he wishes is so toddler-brained it actually hurts me
Yeah, like, if my hypothetical girlfriend made me a cake with surprise coffee frosting or something, I'd probably eat a slice out of politeness and tell her "I'm sorry, I realise you put a lot of work into this, but I really don't like coffee". If the guy had a similar revulsion regarding vanilla, that's fair enough. But he liked the cake lol.
@@klop4228 Exactly. If someone has an extreme distaste for a specific food, they politely say no when asked if they want it, and they apologize if the other person put a lot of effort into it, that's fine. But the cake guy doesn't even hate vanilla, he says no in a mean spirited way, and he doesn't apologize for being a jackass to his wife
this whole discourse has been blowing my goddamn mind because THIS HAPPENED TO ME and it literally never would have occurred to me to be upset about it. at my work we usually order a cake or some kind of treat for people's birthdays, so my coworkers and i were browsing a bakery's website for someone's upcoming birthday. i pointed out a lemon layer cake that looked really good and said lemon was my favorite, and my coworker said "haha i'm writing that down so we can surprise you with one on your birthday." then on my birthday they got me a lemon bundt cake which isn't really the same thing. and i was very happy about it!! it was a good cake!!! imagine what kind of antisocial nut case i would have looked like if i had sulked about it and told my coworkers "if i wanted a bundt cake i would have asked for a bundt cake"!?
I think the justification that bothered me most for this guy's behavior were the people that categorized her putting vanilla in between the layers as abuse; like she did it just to play mind games, instead of what it probably was. She probably just realized she wasn't going to have enough chocolate frosting to coat the cake *and* do between the layers, and substituted vanilla in a spot most rational people wouldn't notice nor care about.
@@fatpenguin0089 He noticed the thin layer of vanilla frosting, per his own words because THAT is the singular thing he becomes upset about. That there was vanilla frosting between the layers of chocolate cake.
As someone unreasonably invested in this discourse, thank you for addressing all possible points against cake lady. I can't think of any other argument within the bounds of the information we have available that can even attempt to defend him. Also Dumptruck W.
Even as a man who is a very picky eater I have no sympathy for him. If I want something specific my responsibility is to give very specific information so that my wishes can be fulfilled accurately. Instead he gave the most wishy-washy information possible and her cake was within his specifications, so he's completely at fault.
@@otto_jk It's also worth remembering that he doesn't generally have a problem with vanilla frosting. I think that comes up in the original AITA and Joel references it with on-screen text at 3:47. This is all just a bizarre matter of principal.
I think the best advice i remember growing up, is don't be disappointed if someone doesn't get you what you wanted for your birthday, because then you would be treating them like a store. The fact that she did just what he asked and he still threw a fit shows how entitled he is. I hope she did leave him because she already has children and doesn't need one more.
I think the lesson is "have some gratefulness and tact when others go out of their way for you" not "don't be disappointed." I wouldn't roast my family over it but I would not consider a new bible a considerate gift that I could simply "not be disappointed with." It would demonstrate a clear disregard for my beliefs and opinions, even if unintentional.
It reminds me of a Fry & Laurie sketch where two snooty restaurant diners ask a waiter for some mineral water, and when she brings them a bottle, they insist it wasn't what they asked for. "We asked for some mineral water. What you have brought us, as I think we can plainly see, is a BOTTLE of mineral water." In the end she takes the bottle away and carries some water over in her cupped hands, dripping it onto the tablecloth in front of them lol
@@debraolearyart if you Google image search devil's food cake there's tons of pics with vanilla frosting, though lots of pics without. seems like different people have different preferences
When I was 18 I thought that open and honest communication meant communicating every little problem and trying to work through it. Wasn't until getting broken up with that I realized that "open and honest" doesn't mean expressing your feelings every single time. Really was over-compensating for most of my life NEVER expressing my feelings and emotions, and since I've done my best to find a healthy balance. I was 18. This man is in his thirties. He's lost
But also, when she asked, he could have admitted he was somewhat disspointed about it, without being so harsh and ungrateful about it. Like Joel points out, he came off as snooty and condescending, and did not acknowledge that she probably put in a fair amount of care and effort into it.
Tell me you are unwilling to accept that other people have different taste buds than you without telling me that you are unwilling to accept that other people have different taste buds than you
Vanilla icing is disgusting. It was kind of him to pretend to like it on previous occasions. This time he was honest when asked. And he expressed himself immaturely
What if she added turnips, huh?? What if she added a thick layer of fully-loaded handguns?? What if she slathered a rusted-out 1978 Buick convertible in vanilla icing?? That would have been awful. No one thinks of these things like I do!
@@SigFigNewton this is about the exact type of childish overreaction i would expect an overemotional male with a perpetual sense of victimhood to express lol
The guy makes it sound like that because he only eats half the slice. It seems like he doesn't only eat around the vanilla but just stops eating as soon as he gets to the vanilla? Wild behavior if so.
I think another crucial bit of subtext that’s typically glossed over is that the conversation started with the girlfriend asking: “Are you disappointed?” which would be a really strange question to ask unless the boyfriend was already exhibiting disappointed behavior. Like it was clearly obvious that he wasn’t pleased or she wouldn’t have asked. Also, while not explicit, I think “nothing fancy” carries at least a heavy connotation that you don’t have highly specific preferences about the cake. Lastly, we’re talking about this situation as if it’s a one-off because that’s all the context we have. Obviously this is speculation, but for the dude to be this oblivious and demanding, and for it to be a dealbreaker rather than a just a big fight, tells me that this is probably a pattern of behavior.
@@SigFigNewtonHIGHLY disappointing? it is a layer of frosting in a flavor that he LIKES, on a cake that he ALSO likes. if that’s highly disappointing then burning my mac n cheese today was the fucking titanic.
I would rather eat any food than a food with icing that isn’t chocolate. With chocolate icing, chocolate cake is one of my favorite foods. I would still eat the burned Mac and cheese, and I don’t particularly like Mac n cheese. Not everyone has the same taste buds. It’s possible to be disgusted by icing.
There are foods that I would rather eat rotten than having to eat icing, unless it’s chocolate, which I love. Turns out not everyone is exactly the same.
Wh- He literally gave her explicit instructions. It’s more like him going “Hey can we get italian?” and then she pulls up to a Greek place because “It has olives and tomatoes!“ And then he quietly just eats his meal until she forces him to explain why he seems dejected, then she blows up at him for her own actions, and the entire internet complains he should have just eaten at the Greek restaurant *when he did*
he didn't need to give her explicit instructions because his wife is not his maid. he could have specified he wanted it to be all one flavour instead of reacting like a dejected child over a thin layer of vanilla frosting in an overwhelmingly chocolate cake. the fact that a collective group of overgrown male toddlers came out in his defense doesn't make this indignant reaction over a woman who put time and effort into something for her husband any less disgusting. but then again this is nothing more than a predictable and typical male overreaction moment at things not being exactly the way they demand it to be. path,etic.
@@SigFigNewton i said this is the type of guy to do that. not thats what he is doin in this video. since you barely have a grasp on the english language let me spell it out for ur toddler brain: he is fundamentally on a molecular level the type of person to act like a little kid when he doesnt get what he wants grow up and quit defending this dude
I agree that I don’t think the fundamentals of the situation, or the way people reacted to it, would be much different if the genders were swapped. People would just be using different gender stereotypes and narratives to characterize who was in the right/wrong and why. Whether it’s a man acting like an asshole or a woman, there are always people capable of cramming situations into tidy, prewritten gender-war scripts.
Hello JJ I watch your channel and like your videos on the history of stuff. I was pleasantly surprised to see your comment when looking through these comments.
I honestly don't think this guy has ever cooked for someone and be invested in if it's well-received or not. You can come at this with "on principle", Technically" and "hypothetically" all you want but on one side was a kind gesture in the shape of work and care and on the other side there was a slap in the face as a response.
When I cook and bake for people I truly truly absolutely want honest feedback. I'd feel way worse if they lied to "spare my feelings" and I went on thinking they liked what I made for them
@@InaneBlatherPodcast How is this about honest feedback? He likes the cake(confirmed 100%) like, objectively good cake! He just wanted to be rude to his gf because he deserves perfect *service*.
@@InaneBlatherPodcast Yeah but that's not what this is. If someone makes me food I'll be grateful even if it's not the best or what I wanted exactly. I'm gonna assume you've never lived alone
@@InaneBlatherPodcast You do realize that you can give honest feedback and legitimate criticism without insulting someone... right? "It's delicious, but maybe next time add more frosting." "The pasta is more stringy than I am used to, but I appreciate the effort." "I'm sorry, but I don't like ranch dressing. That's on me for not saying something beforehand."
@@onijester56 exactly! He could have said something like "thank you so much for baking this delicious cake! To be completely honest I was a little thrown off that there was vanilla inside, I should have been more specific that I just wanted chocolate on chocolate, but I really appreciate you making me a birthday cake"
I think the part that got me was that the whole issue was the cake not matching a very specific idea in his head. Not because she did anything too weird, like add pickles, and not even because he disliked the frosting. If it was a random day and she made a random cake, he would have liked it. He let his mental image of a cake get unreasonably locked in without expressing that to his gf in advance. Instead, he frames it as him being disappointed in her and her actions to externalize a 100% internal issue.
I feel like no matter what cake she made he would have found something to be disappointed about on his special birthday. I obviously don't have proof but...I dislike his vibe
I agree. It's really, REALLY not even remotely hard to just say "oh hey actually i would have prefered without vanilla so i was a little dissapointed but it's okay", but man legit ATE AROUND THE FROSTING while saying that he doesn't dislike vanilla. He externalized the responsability for his own feelings to her, essentially forcing his partner into a subservient role in which she's responsible for making sure nothing upsets him. And yeah i don't believe it is a one time issue when dude is very clearly incapable of seeing how condescending and entitled he came accross
the direct 1:1 comparison would be like saying "I want a burger with lettuce and tomatoes." In most places, pickles are included in burgers by default. I absolutely have to specify that I don't want pickles, every time, to reasonably expect not to get pickles. But this would be like getting a burger with pickles as well as lettuce and tomatoes and being indignant about it. And in this scenario, he even likes these hypothetical pickles! I just do not understand the pettiness.
@@xiniks literally! I’m glad someone is finally saying it it’s driving me insane how are Joel and all of the comments and I’m not sure about Twitter because I don’t fuck with Elon but no one is talking about the fact that it’s a devil’s food cake and majority of those that I have ever seen and that’s a lot since they’re one of my favorite have had vanilla filling. It makes the second disagreement point in this video completely moot, and really does just mean he wanted a mind reader.
yuuup. This Cake -guy- boy is basically doing the classic "NUH UH! I DON'T WANT THIS COOKIE, I WANT A NONBROKEN COOKIE! IT DOESN'T TASTE THE SAME, WAAAHHHH!" temper tantrum
Next year's revenge cake: After he eats the entire thing and says he loves it, she stands up, points at him, and says, "HA! I put fake chocolate frosting in the middle of the cake and you didn't notice! It was vanilla the entire time! Take that!" (yes I am the type of petty yet calculating person who would do that)
I saw many people arguing that she didn't care about what he wanted and only thought about what she wanted, which is why she added the vanilla. But that argument misses that she made the rest of the cake out of chocolate, so she clearly did care about what he wanted.
I've seen plenty of posts on reddit about adult women being divas about their birthday, and everyone is like "get over yourself, this is really childish behaviour". Which is generally the correct response to adults being all extra about their birthday. Then this guy does THE EXACT SAME THING (even pettier, honestly) and somehow everyone has his back. Hmmm...
idk if "everyone has his back" - it seems to me like it's a small and distinct minority who have his back, and Joel the Small handily dealt with them. Normal and healthy people (and those of us who do our best to emulate them) agree that this guy is definitely the asshole. [ETA: I guess _some_ people do have his back, seeing the response just below mine here - but then again, this appears to be dealt with in my qualifying clause.]
Ok but how is it a petty tantrum. He was asked his feelings. He didn't complain at all before he was asked. I'm autistic. If I was expecting a cake to not have vanilla and it turned out it did I too would be unreasonably upset. I might cut around the vanilla parts. I wouldnt complain. I struggle to tell even white lies so when asked I would freeze or be honest. I don't know why people have to take sides. Not every situation has a victor. Sometimes its just two people with completely understandable emotions and reactions.
@@donov25You can express your feelings, just consider your words more than this guy did. It's all in the delivery. "Sorry, I know you put a lot of work into this but I'm really not feeling vanilla right now" would be at least decent, I think. "If I wanted vanilla I would have asked for vanilla" comes across immature and kinda rude, I wouldn't even speak to a stranger with this kinda attitude, not a way you should talk to a loved one who just made you a cake.
In answer to the "what about his feelings" - there is a way to express this if he absolutely has to. Something like "I'm sorry, I don't really like the vanilla frosting, but the rest of the cake is delicious and I love that you made a cake for me."
Scrolled down looking for this. Hell if the cake guy took home some workplace politics skills, he could even compliment sandwich it or go "This cake is amazing. I love it so much. I bet next time it could be made even better if we explore what it would be like without the vanilla but we would need to compare to know for sure. Still, since this cake is really good its a high bar to overcome." Im surprised i had to scroll this far down to see the correct take. The guy is valid to be able to express the vanilla as not his favorite but the way he said it can turn a negative experience to a positive one.
Devil's food cake traditionally has a layer of vanilla icing in the middle. It's like asking for cheese crust pizza w extra cheese then flipping out there's marinara sauce in between the layers of cheese.
Even if OP bought the cake from a store and they got it wrong, it still wouldn’t be ok if he got all snippy about it like he did in the post. “If I wanted x, then I would’ve asked for x!” is not a mature response to someone getting your food wrong, period.
Seriously dude. A big part of my own path to growing up is that I’ve learned to not be disappointed or lash out when I don’t get exactly what I want like I’m a fuckin grown ass adult why am I gonna whine and complain if the burger place adds a sauce I don’t like. I have no issue sending smth back but also I’m not gonna make a big deal abt it. Having worked in food service for like 8 years I always appreciate people who calmly told us we got it wrong and don’t act like children. There’s a way to have this cake convo and not make it a major relationship issue. Sounds like these two have more going on than just cake lmao
Yeah I've always been fairly apologetic and sheepish when pointing out someone got my order wrong. Like "Hey, sorry but I wanted no tomatoes...". Just making sure the service worker knows I'm not mad at them.
Couple months ago a guy asked for no walnuts and no raisins in his salad. Proceeds to get mad at me because it has paramesan and croutons. These people are playing mind games with people they see as beneath them.
not wanting to make him another cake next year is about as far from "going nuclear" as possible. That's a perfectly rational response to someone being an ingrate about the food you made them.
My wife who loves to bake asked what kind of cake I'd like for my birthday this year, and I said cheesecake. She got the idea to make butter pecan cupcakes with frosting, caramel sauce, and peanut butter chips. They were delicious. I love my wife.
The only way weaponized incompetence would play into this is if everything about the story was swapped out for another famous reddit cake post about the pineapple upside-down cake. A gf/wife asked her partner multiple times to get her a pineapple upside-down cake for her bday from a specific bakery. She told him explicitly and kept bringing it up gently/subtly over the course of a month (or more) because she was REALLY EXCITED for this cake and all he had to do was order it. He also, to my recollection, indicated he would get it for her. Come her birthday, and he gave her a cheap vanilla sheet cake you can find at any grocery store. So why is that different? As Joel said, dude did not explicitly forbid vanilla icing (and said he likes it), and almost all of the cake she MADE HIM was per his wants. The pineapple cake story has the dude not even putting in the effort to do the one thing his partner asked. She gave him months of prep and didn’t want ANY GIFTS besides that cake. Instead he didn’t even put in the minimum effort to get her the type of cake he’d indicated he was getting and been told about, and instead picked up something easily available (and if I recall, got her an extra gift of an ipad that seemed more for himself than her). Chocolate cake story had this girl putting in every bit of effort that she promised in making this dude a cake (making the cake with chocolate icing), and the only issue that he was reacting to was the addition of vanilla that he didn’t communicate was something he absolutely did not want. If you want to bring up weaponized incompetence, you have to go by it’s definition. Weaponized incompetence is something deliberate that means a task doesn’t get done (overall, if someone does something and does it badly to the point of needing a do-over or fixing, it means its not done) so that the other person will never ask them to do it again. This gf put in hours of effort and made him a chocolate cake with chocolate icing - she just also added in a bit of vanilla (that he likes) in the middle. She did not ruin the cake, she put in the effort, she got it done right - and the vanilla was added on a good faith assumption that be liked it (he did) and its presence did not affect anything at all (which is true). Dude just TREATED it like weaponized incompetence and put her down in front of her kids like she was an employee or servant. The reaction and everything else was on him, not her. PS: with the bakery remark the BF made? Bakeries usually put something specific in the centre of a cake unless you ask them not to. An Ice Cream cake looks the same inside for every single one, and my local grocery store bakery puts custard in the middle for every single cake. If you want something different in those centres, you need to TELL THEM, and if you don’t and pull at fit later the bakery will say “all our cakes are made like this, you needed to specify/ask” and it would be YOUR FAULT for not giving proper info while ordering and you’d be seen as an ass. So no matter what this dude was arguing it was misguided and entitled as hell.
A gender swap wouldn't affect the analysis? Are you kidding me? If it were a guy making a cake for his girlfriend and she whined about it, everyone would be shocked she didn't throw a freaking parade in his honor for even attempting baking a cake. Duh!
The argument he was responding to was about anti-cake-guy people switching to pro-cake-girl if the roles were reversed (ie people are biased against the man). Your comment is about the opposite (ie people are biased against the woman), which isn't brought up in the video because it's just not what he's responding to.
there's also always just the fact that different ppl grow up with different ideas of what a "chocolate cake" means. ever since I was a baby my dad has always baked a two-layer chocolate cake with mashed bananas between the layers and then chocolate icing over the whole thing for every birthday (usually with decorations of candy, maybe spelling out my initials or my age). when I hear "chocolate cake" I think of that, and if I were asked to make a "chocolate cake, nothing fancy" that's exactly what I would make. I'm sure that this woman is in the same boat, simply always thinking that chocolate cakes have vanilla stuff in the middle because that's what she's always known. if you want something specific, you need to be specific in your request.
That's interesting I've never encountered a cake like that, with the banana. Did your dad use a recipe or did he make that up? I've had lots of banana cake and chocolate cake but not that kind of cake. Sounds good though
Also I think the main thing the sort of Reddit style arguments people have been having about this miss the main point of gift giving. When you receive a gift the main joy of it comes from receiving a gift from someone else, knowing they took the effort to get something they thought you’d like. It’s a different feeling than buying something for yourself. So I think if your main evaluation of a gift is whether it’s perfectly what you wanted, you’re not interested in the other person and just want something like a spoiled kid on Christmas. It seems like an extension of this new movement to sterilize relationships by observing them through very clinical and professional definitions so that you never have to confront the fact that you’re dealing with another imperfect person or form a meaningful bond that overcomes very surface level problems like having the wrong frosting on a cake.
@@TheSamuel12777I think the guy may be someone who resents the expectation that he act like something he isn’t and hide his true feelings. Like.. there’s a decent chance he’s autistic and that’s how he perceives the behavior of going out of your way to protect the feelings of others
My sister made me a pastry with blueberries in it (which I'm sadly allergic to) and I'm so glad i wasn't an entitled ass about it because it turns out most women aren't conniving duplicitous gremlins trying to ruin your birthday. She felt terrible for her mistake and made it up to me by insisting on making another pastry, which i bet of he'd been nice to her about it she would have wanted to make up the very small "mistake" to him somehow.
i watched this video with my mom and when little joel said he would kill his girlfriend and then himself, my mom said "then there would be kids with no parents" as if little joel was being serious and she found the hole in his argument.
You're on the correct side Little Joel. Cake Guy was looking a gift horse in the mouth. For me, gratitude is an important thing. Regardless of whether you get me the correct flavor for my birthday cake, I was raised to believe that "it's the thought that counts". As a single man, I don't expect anyone to do anything nice for me, so the fact that this guy was getting a cake baked for him at all is what he should have appreciated. Instead, he was picky and ungrateful when he didn't even make the cake.
My favorite take was that it was ableist to criticize cake guy because some people have food sensitivities and you should always respect that. As though that were the SITUATION AT ALL.
it isn't ableist to think this guy is an asshole. but henry, and many others, are reproducing the idea that when someone asks 'are you disappointed', that people expect us to *know* that they want a figurative answer, not a literal one. this guy is throwing a patriarchal tantrum, but 'ableism' remarks also refer to a valid frustration
@@Djsokdkfjdkdhe immediately became the asshole when he said "if i wanted vanilla in the cake i would have asked for vanilla in the cake" like she was his servant failing to satisfy his order
@@thomasallister3446”if I wanted vanilla I would have asked for it” could just be a neurodivergent person explaining their communication style. Being autistic is extremely difficult
@@Djsokdkfjdkd god forbid someone go out of their way to do something nice for someone they love and not get it exactly how the other person would have liked but never specified, especially when that didn't end up harming anyone anyway. ableism discourse inherently revolves around people acting like entitled d*cks and expecting others to give them a pass for it. it's really telling that every single person defending this man keeps talking about the wife like she were an incompetent maid rather than his wife. all you're doing is telling women that they should never do nice things for men lest they risk getting it wrong and being attacked by entitled misogynistic man children shielding themselves behind a veil of righteousness. gross behaviour.
I don't really get why, but some people truly have a hard time separating "emotion I felt" with "action I took", and act like they're one and the same. So when questioned on their actions, they act like their feelings are being attacked. Cake guy is valid for being disappointed with getting vanilla frosting he didn't want, that's just taste preference. But there are sooooo many better ways to express mild disappointment than what he did lmao. Bring back 17th century etiquette classes for this guy
One thing that people aren't bringing up enough: What if the kids liked vanilla? He's a grown ass 34 year old man, and there are kids present. We're only hearing this from his perspective, so we don't actually know why his girlfriend put vanilla icing on it. But maybe she thought she could make exactly what he wanted, and also make it more tasty for the kids? She could have put a lot of thought into it and tried to make a cake that appealed to everyone. This man needs to face the reality that when you're a grown adult and have a family with kids, your birthday isn't going to be 100% your own.
Two thoughts about the cake guy. 1) Comes across like a taker, not a giver, so perhaps isn't familiar with putting a lot of heart and passion into something that then gets rejected. He should probably do that a lot more to build empathy. 2) If you have a negative opinion to give but the other person is in a raw emotional place, just be nice for now, and say thanks! You can bring up the negative opinions a day or two later. I learned 2) when someone mentioned their friend gave a horrible talk, and right after, when they asked how it went, they just focused on congratulating them. They gave them honest, detailed notes on what could be better but only the next day after things had settled down, and it was well received.
@@Jechti307 "It was really kind of you to make this cake for me! Thank you so much for being so thoughtful." So, did you read what I wrote? Where the guy's friend asked them how their talk went. And they were smart -- they detected the timing wasn't right and avoided a direct answer while things were still emotionally raw. What the woman was looking for was not honest criticism but gratitude and confirmation. She was obviously feeling insecure when she saw he wasn't eating his cake that she had spent hours on. He had a chance to handle it gracefully and he did not, I'm not sure what to tell you.
@@coder13 " She asked me if I was disappointed" Your solution to this situation is for him to straight up lie to her about how he's feeling and lied to her about why he's upset. For some freaking reason you think that would be a healthy response to this situation? Read it again she had already noticed he was disappointed and she asked him directly why. She push the conversation and he was just honest with her. Why is everyone continuously trying to twist the story.
@@Jechti307 Hey, you do you. If you want to grow personally or not for the sake of others around you, that's a choice you'll have to make on your own. Maybe everyone around you is super direct and blunt with each other and you're all happy, and that's fine. I never lied in my response. I said thanks and called out how appreciative I was. I would probably still feel disappointed in the moment but discussing it would be better saved for a later time. My appreciation would have been genuine. I bet the conversation would have stopped there. If she pushed again, I'd say something like, "It's really delicious, but I like the chocolate part a lot more" And if she pushed again, I'd say, "You seem to be really worried about something, but I'm having a great time with you and really appreciate what you've done for me. Let's just enjoy the party and we can talk more about the cake tomorrow, I promise." Maybe you, like me, are on the spectrum, and would like to live in a world where everyone talks about things at face value. But in reality, people are contradictory, insecure, and unconfident, and navigating this mess at a high level involves really understanding the person and context behind the words. This can seem frustrating, but to me, realizing this was an opportunity to step up and work at becoming a better person.
@@coder13 You are projecting so much on to this it is simply unreal. You are completely changing the dynamic of the situation and trying to change the conversation that happened to justify your perception of the man's actions. You are asking him to lie to her. You're asking him to treat her like a child and cancel her and act like she doesn't have the emotional stability to handle the fact that he was disappointed there was vanilla in the cake. He's allowed to be disappointed he did not bring it up. He wasn't going to bring it up. She asked him directly if he was disappointed and he told her why no amount of " well hunny i enjoyed the cake in the Chocolat part was really good and vanilla but I specifically asked for just. Chocolate" and even more so he went on to say he liked the cake and he ain't around the vanilla which he didn't want telling her it was still good it's just not what he asked for and was slightly disappointed. So just because he did not express that position in flowerily soft-coated talk Downey language enough for you he's in the wrong here. And yes I don't want everyone to sugarcoat and lie to me and try to protect my feelings instead of just telling me if I did something that disappointed them are upset of them even if I was trying to do something nice. I am not going to change how I react to my emotions and the emotions of others just a cuddle allistic people cuz I don't want to be coddled. The way you talk about treating the lady in your response and your 3 steps of " I'm fine are you sure your okay, don't worry about it" is exactly the kind of baby talk infestation I feel every time someone realizes I'm autistic and starts talking slower to me.
I’m a strictly chocolate dessert kind of guy and a fairly picky eater, but even I would have no issue with vanilla frosting. You gotta be insane to agree with cake guy.
ay I'm fairly neutral but I agree that cake guy did do an oppsie. don't think it's "insane" to agree with him though like come on its just a silly cake debate for us, it's not a serious debacle to strangers on the internet.
@@gotmilkbutt a lot of people on Twitter and in the comments on the first Joel cake guy video are team birthday boy. Lots of people saying it's not fair to expect people to eat something they hate just to spare someone's feelings. Which you might notice has nothing to do with this situation because he admitted the cake was good
i agree with cake guy that it factually wasn’t what he asked for but whether it’s important/worth fighting about is another thing. i kinda vaguely remember a birthday where my parents made me a cake i didn’t expect or it wasn’t my favorite but… it’s cake. delicious either way
What gets me the most is the way this guy experienced and described things is exactly my mindset as a child. He's personally invested in this cake and is hinging his happiness on it, when...its just cake? I love cake, i love food and even have occasional weight problems, but its not that hard to find a really good German or Vietnamese bakery and have all the cake you want. It feels like there's some neurodivergeance happening here because it's obvious this guy doesn't care about the cake and simply can't process and express what's actually going on.
I think it's fine that he didn't like the cake and expressed it, it's more the "how" of his expression. I know that if I made a cake for my partner, and they didn't like it, I'd want feedback on how to make it more to their preference next time around. The problem, as the video mentions, was both the setting of his expression and his wording of said problem.
He didn't even finish the slice of cake, he doesn't dislike vanilla icing but he was so caught up on this quite frankly minor error that he sat there picking at the cake she made like a child
Its funny to me how so many peopIe talking about this think that the desire for a cake to be to yourexact specifications on yourbirthday somehow trumps the desire for appreciation and vaIidation byyour partner in a reIationship Him not getting a cake he wanted is not a big deaI, her feeIing shamed and chastised for making a minor mistake when working hard to do a kind thing for her loved one is a much bigger deaI. I know there has been a Iot of talk lately about how peopIe are entering reIationships much Iess than 10 or 20 years ago, but I've never reaIIy reckoned with what that means untiI now because there is a zero percent chance that someone in a happy reIationship couldnt see that emotionaI support is more important than a cake Imao
I wonder what's the bigger difference: A) eating devil's food cake and chocolate frosting with or without added vanilla frosting B) eating devil's food cake with chocolate and vanilla frosting, with or without a girlfriend which is the bigger change from what he wanted for his birthday?
It is the THOUGHT THAT COUNTS. my mom drilled!!! That into my head. Since I was a BABY. Its not the gift that matters, it's that someone cared enough about you to try.
The thing that bothers me about Cake Guy is that it doesn’t seem he’s mad about the cake flavors - it sounds like he’s upset she didn’t follow his exact instructions. He doesn’t care about the outcome, only that he couldn’t perfectly control her
I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I even feel like there are totally valid potential reasons for her decision that haven’t been explored. Like what if she didn’t have enough cocoa powder to make all of the icing chocolate, so she made as much chocolate frosting as possible with the ingredients she had, used that on the outside, then used vanilla in the middle? Or if she was using premade ingredients, maybe she had leftover vanilla frosting from something else, and she wanted to use it up. Regardless, there’s no way this dude should’ve felt slighted and I’m so grateful that none of the men in my family would ever be so disturbed by my baking that they’d post on Reddit about it.
Also, probably never seen a more hilarious use of the role reversal argument. If my husband baked me a cake, it would almost certainly be bad, but I’d be moved to tears and eat it with enthusiasm.
Me, a morally superior person if I got chocolate cake with vanilla frosting despite me not specifically asking for vanilla frosting: "Oh wow, vanilla frosting too, I didn't even think of that! This is great thank you for baking me a cake, this is so good! Yum yum!"
Watching this is the first time in a long time that I've felt completely in agreement with someone else. This toddler of a man would have said something like ' ooh vanilla, I wasn't expecting that, it gives a great color contrast. Cut me a big slice!' if he actually appreciated her.
@@lolababs206 He wants complete and perfect consideration and in return offers zero of that. The only redemption arc out of this is for him to bake her a cake and document it online to be mocked
@@SigFigNewton if he had social skills that progressed beyond toddlerhood, he could figure out a way to express his wishes without a tantrum that only made his problem worse. I have no idea how such a person could even function in a job with his complete lack of diplomacy or rapport.
ive made an unbearably chocolatey cake by request before. i love chocolate. people dont realize that an entirely chocolate flavored cake can be so overwhelming until they're eating it. its just too rich to actually enjoy. she did nothing wrong, if anything she made the cake more edible
Idk my grandma always made me layered chocolate cake on my bday when I was a lil kid, and it was never like way too rich or sugary, cuz it wasn't 100% pure cocoa and sugar with flour, it was a reasonable amount of chocolate flavoring in both the icing and cake part, and a dusting of almonds on top. I certainly don't think breaking up the chocolate flavor with some vanilla icing or having chocolate frosting on a vanilla/yellow cake would be bad, but it is actually completely normal and doable to make a chocolate cake out of all chocolatey layers.
Why are so many of the people who disagreed with the initial assessment acting like this is some scenario where he didn't get what he wanted from a restaurant? It's like they're approaching it from an angle of her not correctly providing the requested service, not taking into account that these people are supposed to be partners. Do her feelings just completely not matter here? He's so focused on the fact that he didn't get exactly what he wanted, that the fact that she thought to make him a cake and then exerted time and effort to make that cake, all for him, for his birthday, is overshadowed. That must be crushing for the gf. At the very least, I'd never make him another cake again in the future.
This is all spot on. I'm especially annoyed by that first idea, the "everyone's allowed to express their emotions". I'm not convinced that not wanting vanilla icing is...an emotion? I've definitely had a massive, disproportionate emotional response to something minor that my husband did. I'm sure a lot of people have? There are ways to be honest without letting the emotion turn into judgement or blame. Things like "yeah, I do feel kinda disappointed and angry even? But it's not your fault, and I know I'm overreacting. I'm really sorry, and I'm going to try my best to enjoy this
Being successful in a relationship means knowing how to express things in a way so that they will not hurt your partner. That's called maturity because you are thinking about someone other than yourself, and we, as a society, value egotism less and consider it to be juvenile. Being able to relate a thought out loud without crushing others is a sign that you have done some work and looked at yourself critically. I've often been told by people that I am too blunt--that I have no chill. While people often praise that shit on the internet because it seems to speak to their primal urges, it's actually been a very big hindrance to me and my development of social relationships, so I am working on how I say things to others. This guy spoke in a flippant manner and it hurt his girlfriend, then he doubled down on it and has to ask strangers on the internet to confirm what he already knows.
Yes! My whole stance is that, the disappointment isn't wrong but his behavior is. He should care about her feelings with his delivery and she should be open to disappointment if she asks. It's not the content of the discussion, it's the manner in which it happens. I'm also too blunt. It's either that or doormat mode for me. Finding the balance isn't easy but to just not try? I can't wrap my head around it because I still care about the effect I have on others.
Dudes who think she's in the wrong are the ones that are constantly thinking about the Roman Empire. I don't understand why, but that sounds right to me
You know that the people saying "what if the roles were reversed?" if the roles were truly reversed, they would %100 call the woman an ungrateful b***h and side with the guy that walked away. 100%
I feel like the more honest communication would have been "Yeah I didn't really like the vanilla frosting on the cake, I should have been more specific" not "I didn't like that you added vanilla frosting, I was pretty clear about asking for a chocolate cake". As a cake baker I would actually like it if someone told me if they didn't like my cake. Not to this degree, but I'd still want to hear.
@@DeathnoteBB well yeah, but if you ask for an all meat dinner you'd also expect there to be seasoning, wouldn't you? Vanilla-chocolate frosting is just a little bit of flair that you'd assume would improve the cake. Also, what this guy is at fault for is saying that a specific part of a cake wasn't to his liking in a pretty childish and rude way, not because he didn't like that part of the cake.
I keep thinking about how cake guy used “nothing fancy”. Normally, I feel like nothing fancy implies that since someone is doing something nice for you you say “nothing fancy” to indicate that you are not expecting them to put a lot of effort in and are not invested in getting a perfect result. But then he is completely miffed that she deviated from his very nonchalant instructions…
@@DeathnoteBB Vanilla frosting layer is FANCY ? you have very low standards for fancy. I believe vanilla frosting layers is absolutely normal part of any cake.
I'd be so overjoyed if I had someone in my life that cared enough to take their time and make something for me, anything at all, especially going through all the work to bake and ice a cake. I just can't imagine having someone go through all that effort and show how much they care, only to be told the end result was somehow lacking or not what I wanted. How utterly selfish, self absorbed, and heedless someone would have to be to respond to such an act of kindness and love in such a manner. I think the individual upset about the cake could really use a perspective change so they might better value what they do have rather than piss, moan, and cause fights about getting pretty much exactly what they wanted with a bonus layer of vanilla.
I'm gonna miss hearing you talk about this. grateful this is stored in the digital archives. you best believe I'm sharing this saga with a friend so we can both talk about it.
Equating vanilla frosting on a cake with pickles is so disingenuous it boggles the mind. Just pretending that vanilla is not a completely appropriate addition to make a cake more interesting
A big thing I noticed in this discourse on Twitter is that people think she "grilled him" about it, but like, no? She asked "are you disappointed", an emotionally vulnerable question, and he responded with effectively "You didn't do as I asked", an incredibly selfish and callous response. What was the positive outcome of his statement? She could have either been upset silently or an argument starts, there's no good way it's going after what he said. There's also the argument where people say he's autistic, which is not stated at any point, nor is it an excuse. As a neurodivergent adult myself, I know that it's still my responsibility not to be a dick. If you hurt someone because of your neurodivergence, that's the reason it happened, not an excuse that makes it okay. It sucks, but you don't get to treat it as a get-out-of-jail-free card to treat others poorly. It's harder for us, but we still have to develop the emotional maturity to not harm others.
Being autistic is not an excuse - he was the asshole and should be condemned, so that he knows this behaviour is unacceptable and does not repeat it. But it is an explanation. People attribute all sorts of nasty motives to him - that he's entitled, that he sees himself as superior, whatever have you - when it might just be an obsessive fixation on technical details and trouble regulating emotions. As for why it was never mentioned in the post, it might be undiagnosed. I had shown signs of autism since I was a toddler, but got diagnosed only recently, at the age of 21. When the symptoms are less severe, they can be overlooked for a long time. My point is; this is obviously bad behaviour that he should avoid, but the possibility that he's autistic is a good reason not to demonize him or jump to conclusions about his motives.
@@Halucygeno Right, that's what I was saying. Whether he's autistic or not is immaterial, he was still an asshole in that scenario. My larger point is that people are projecting, which is natural, but also something to be mindful of in yourself.
I was hoping you were gonna address one of the points I saw brought up that did have me thinking for more than a second. Some people brought up the idea that the guy might be on the autism spectrum without knowing it because of what seems like an overreaction to an unexpected thing (the frosting) and his noticeable lack of social awareness of what he did wrong and why she reacted that way. The thing is, assuming that was true, that still wouldn't be a complete exoneration for the guy. Even autistic people would be perfectly capable of handling that situation in a way that didn't mean telling your wife that you see her as being on the same level as some sort of maid.
The issue is he was talking about an autistic trait in an ableist way. He wasnt going in on how the guy handled it poorly, he was making fun of the fact that it not being right mattered to him at all, and called eating around the part he didn't want childlike. Even if that guy is an asshole for his later comments, it is still ableist to make fun of these things, and normalizes makiing fun of those things in autistic people who are not being an asshole.
To use a legal analogy, she satisfied the substantial compliance rule. "The substantial-compliance rule, also known as the substantial-performance doctrine, is a legal principle that states that if someone makes a good-faith attempt to fulfill an agreement or legal requirement, but falls short in some way, their performance may still be considered complete if the essential purpose is accomplished." He is a monster.
What annoys me about point 1 is that no one in their right mind is criticizing Cake Guy for having preferences, or even expressing his disappointment that his preferences weren't followed as closely as he wanted. The entire issue stems from his inability to communicate th at disappointment fairly, maturely, or (and here's the really important part) effectively. Here's the finale for any of you "super logical alpha males" out there. In this situation, your goal is to establish your preference clearly to your partner IN A WAY THAT MAKES THEM INCLINED TO REMEMBER AND HONOR THAT PREFERENCE. Not to sulkelly debate-bro then into submission. So I'm going to give you a cheat sheet: Step one: Don't embarrass her in front of her kids. When she asks if its good, with the kids there, just say it's good. Save everything else for later. Trying to be picky about it in front of the kids just makes you look whiny. Step two: Assure her it was a good cake and that you appreciate the work she put into it to try and do something nice for your birthday. Step three: Once you are away from the kids, and have assured her the cake was tasty and you appreciate her efforts, say this verbatim; "Look, I know what I'm about to say is stupid, but it's my birthday so I am legally allowed to be a whiny little bitch-baby for the day. Next time I'd like it if you did more chocolate frosting between the layers instead of vanilla. I know it's petty, but you need to understand- I'm a chocoholic with the taste buds of a spoiled 6 year old. When I say I want chocolate cake, what I mean is I want you to waterboard me with chocolate icing." Acknowledge you're being petty and dumb, but that in t he future you'd appreciate her accommodating your stupid tastes.
I mean, overall your point is correct, but you can do this sort of thing without undermining your own feelings. In step 3, just say that you'd really prefer to have the whole thing be chocolate in the future. People are allowed to ask for what they actually want.
The pickle argument is top notch. I would love spending my free time around that person. "What if the genders were reversed" is such a tired counterpoint from the "I'm just playing devil's advocate" crowd as they tilt at windmills.
i got a fit bit :-)
Im glad :)
(:
me when my bits are fit
Be sure to adjust your stride length since you're so little
Please don't kill your girlfriend over cake though, Joel. That's not legal lmao
His girlfriend should not be forced to make the exact cake he desires but do you know who is forced to make sweet goods against their will. The Oompa Loompas. What about the Oompa Loompas big Joel.
I was looking for this comment. Thank you.
exactly
I love this channel so much 😭🤣
You didn't hear this from me, but I'm working on a plan to break into Wonka's Factory and get all the Oompa Loompas out. Uh, I mean I am totally not planning to destroy a major capitalist's source of revenue to free his slave-captive work-force... that would be like some sort of felony. :P
against all reason you made the joke work
But what if the roles were switched, and we had a chocolate cake that asked for a man for their birthday. And the vanilla cake spent hours crafting a man, but left his hair a little long and feminine. And then the chocolate cake brow beat the vanilla vake in front of their cupcakes for this one minor detail.
Who's the asshole now? Hmmm?
It doesn't matter since I ate both cakes and the cupcakes. 😊
NOT IN FRONT THE CUPCAKES 😭
Seriously underrated comment
holy shit i m ginna die
lmaoooo
Dumptruck wants that CAKE
Joel inspires me.. My parents said if i get 50K followers They'd buy me a professional camera for recording..begging u guys , literally
Begging...
I love Little Joel's dog Dumptruck ❤
Report the guy asking for subs unwanted spam. This is a comment thread for dump truck not you bud.
@@TheFrostyboiz I'm pretty sure his comment is a copypaste, but he changes the first word to the channels name
I’m so high
Gonna be honest, knowing how Reddit feels about women, I feel like if the genders were swapped people would get more pissed. Like beyond unreasonably mad
I agree. I also think the simple fact that women are just more likely and more expected to bake a cake for their partner would make us more mad at the woman. I mean this guy made her a cake! that's more than most do
Agreed, she'd be called a Karen for sure
@@littlestjoel I didn’t even think of that, but yeah
I have seen multiple posts like this with a women, and you are exactly correct on how reddit reacted. They were "unreasonably mad" to the point that mods had to lock the post because of the level of vitriol 😦
If this was a Reddit post where a man baked a cake for a woman and her reaction was "If I wanted vanilla frosting, I would have asked for it," there would be men trying to dox her so they can send her threats of sexual violence
But what if instead of vanilla, she coated the cake in poison? Didn’t think about that, did you?
What if instead of chocolate it was shit? Checkmate liberals!
😀
God forbid women do anything
What if the center layer had been dog shit? The possibilities are endless. Do people have carte blanche to add anything to cakes now? And we just have to smile and say it's good?
Adding some radioactive waste only enhances the flavour, you're overreacting sweatie.
I think that if the genders where reversed people would be more mean and misogynistic than they already were. They'd be like "how dare she ask for a different cake, men rarely bake. She should be greatful she has a boyfriend that even does anything for her birthday!"
I can practically hear the shithead men who would say "in [x country they only refer to as a monolith] a woman would be beaten for talking like this" like it makes their point more sound
YES YES YES
People will ruthlessly defend a man who does the bare fucking minimum like they're a national treasure
The woman would be absolutely REAMED online if she behaved this way like what world are these people living in??
@@grayk3803 For real. The real issue people have is someone else’s bodily autonomy to not eat something they did not want to. Which is wild when being pro-consent is usually a big deal for channels like this and its followers. But I guess a _birthday cake_ is too far? Even though she chose to bake it and then intentionally ignored what he wanted. I guess anyone is anti-consent if you make the situation small enough, which is terrifying.
Talk about cake girl Joel. The woman that had a bad history of cake smashing with her family, and who specifically told her fiancé to not do that at their wedding. Years later, as the big day arrives, she’s feeling the happiest she has ever been, only to have it come crashing down when her husband smashed cake on her face and embarrassed her in front of everyone she knows. She fucking left that wedding, Joel. She left that wedding and left that man. ( I read that story on AITA I’m pretty sure, and it THREW ME )
Good for her! I saw a video of a bride trying to avoid her new husband smashing cake into her face. He decided to follow her around, pin her to a corner, and shove her so she fell down. Then he smashed cake in her face. At their *wedding* !! I wished she'd had the courage to leave.
If someone specifically says they don't want you to do it, then obviously you shouldn't do it, and I guess I can theoretically see how someone could have traumatic assocation with the practice if that's what you're implying by "bad history", but describing having a bit of cake on your face as "being embarrassed in front of everyone you know" kinda makes me think you're taking yourself too seriously.
@@liampoulton-king7479 "having a bit of cake on your face" = having your partner ruin your attempts at looking the best you've ever looked on your wedding after you've explicitly told them you don't like it and don't want it. You get your face shoved in food in front of everyone you've ever known while a spotlight is on you and you're wearing the most expensive garment you'll EVER own. You wouldn't be embarrassed? Grow up.
wait, what? smashing a cake in her face at the wedding? I don't get it, is this a bit? is this some weird internet humor here? people don't do this irl ,right? please tell me people don't do it.
Good for her. I would physically fight anyone that smashed cake in my face. I wouldn't hang out with anyone who laughed either. Those aren't morally good people.
This is what little joel is about now, can't wait for the 60th video about this topic, debating cake guy himself for the 4th time
I think past the 3rd in person debate there can be no more compromise. They must engage in brutal fisticuffs to determine wethor or not if he really is the asshole
I'm so in for the 2.5h livestream cake guy debate
@@sharlene3819 People who say, “It’s just a cake, why are they physically fighting for a cake?” don’t understand that the cake is more than a cake. It’s a metaphor.
@@MarcosElMalo2 yeah, exactly! It’s about the message, the principal of the thing.
Not gonna lie me and little Joel and everyone else in this fucking discourse are gonna have to throw hands if y’all don’t understand what a devil’s food cake is and that that’s what he asked for and that yes it fucking has vanilla in it. Maybe I am so irate because that was my favorite cake growing up and I had many a birthday cake of it but like bro words fucking mean things you asked for a specific type of cake and got the type of cake and are upset like that’s even more egregious I don’t like why are we calling it chocolate cake now that is not what he asked for this is like top tier gaslighting LMFAO
"It's a dangerous thing to mistake speaking without thought, for speaking the truth." -Benoit Blanc
Idk man fuck the French
I fucking love that line
Dangerous, and extreeeeeemely common.
That's what I think of everytime I hear the phrase "he tells it like it is"
@@KalCounty Exactly. Emotional maturity is seeing how it is, and deciding A) does this need to be said and B) is there a way to say this that minimizes harm. Just blurting out the first thing you feel without processing it first is incredibly immature, idk why so many people are forgiving it.
I saw the "what if the genders were reversed" thing so much on Twitter and it made me nuts because like...what universe do those people live in? Because in the one I'm from, if the genders were swapped, everyone would lose their minds about what an entitled brat the birthday girl was and then half of Twitter would try to frame it as being indicative of all women's behavior and Matt Walsh would tweet about how it's feminism's fault or some shit.
Yesterday was my birthday, I asked for a carrot cake. My step mom personally made a carrot cake and it was very touching. I don’t really like too much frosting, and there was a ton of frosting. I didn’t say that of course, because she made this cake I really wanted. Because she did this kind act for me, I don’t have the right to complain because that’s awful. She made the cake I wanted on my special day and I was super happy :)
Glad you got a carrot cake man! I’m someone who probably lives in a different country but if I was there I would have eaten the extra frosting for you if you wanted
carrot cake is dope i relate to this a lot lmao, i hate cakes with too much stuff on them, i like when when a cake has as little as possible besides just the cake, but i'd never complain if someone made me a carrot cake with a bunch of extra stuff for me lmao
Happy birthday, sensible person on the internet!!🎉
You're allowed to tell people how much frosting you like
@@TwoForFlinchin1 yes but they didn't, if you didn't specify how much frosting you want you don't have any right to complain lmao
"What if the genders were reversed!" Ah yes, people on the internet are famously gentler and more lenient to women
It’s true that people are more “lenient” to women when it’s a cis woman who sexually assaults a man. But in this case people would definitely be worse and take the chance to say misogynistic shit
This is a very weird take to hear from a children's show icon @@thebuilder5271
@@thebuilder5271in this case the people being more lenient are men who refuse to take women’s crimes against (usually young boys) seriously. Not the mean feminists like people act
yeah, patriarchy is why that is the case @@thebuilder5271
@@omgitskittyandjaja women absolutely do that shit too, you don't know what you're talking about
The part about him speaking like she owes him servitude really hit the nail on the head for me. She wasn't doing it because he's her superior or something, she was doing it out of love and care. That he reacted without a modicum of consideration for that is extremely telling and I'd honestly also consider ending a relationship over it.
100%, I would end the relationship if the person chastised me like that in front of my children. Even if she were in the wrong, which she isn't, chewing her out in front of her kids is unacceptable. Original OP needed to wait to have his little Nero tantrum
I wouldn't consider it. I'd end it. Imagine being treated like a fucking waiter in your own home in front of your children. And if this is how he treats his LOVED ONE, IN FRONT OF HER CHILDREN, imagine what this guy is like in other similar scenarios where he doesn't have to be nice? This is a guy who screams at waiters.
@@tater3982 oh ABSOLUTELY, it's just golden that he left out that key detail until the end as if it was an afterthought. Imagine being those kids and seeing your mum's boyfriend acting in ways you've been taught are rude. Imagine being this man and feeling not embarrassed, but somehow wronged and self righteous.
@@coldravioli7839 exactly!! He says next time he'll just order a cake and if it's not what he wants he'll return it, but it seems to me that he'd probably be even nastier in that situation because he wouldn't have any sort of relationship with whoever's making him the cake.
@@irisxiv444 I mean, at least he thought to double-check his actions on an internet forum? Granted, a LOT of the people on AITA are actually just looking for validation and will argue to-the-death that they in fact weren't the asshole, no matter how many people say otherwise. I haven't seen the comments on this thread so idk where he lies.
I appreciate how honest Little Joel is being about his homicidal tendencies when loved ones reject his cake.
To be fair, they rejected his cake in front of his CHILD (Totoro the doggie) 😭
To be fair, vanilla icing does absolutely ruin chocolate cake for a lot of people
I hate it when people say "everyone is entitled to their opinion" as if to say all opinions are equally valid and worthy of consideration. They are not. Bad opinions do exist.
opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one but an unfortunate amount don't know how to wipe properly.
I have soooo many opinions and some of them would be incredibly hurtful if I said them out loud but I also have some contradictory opinions that people might think are very random but nice and I have opinions that would completely ruin every single one of my relationships because I think I might secretly be kind of an a**shole. However, because I like people and I value and love my friends and family and because my guiding core principles are generally love, kindness and don't be a dick, I keep all my stupid opinions for comments sections. Time and a place. Time and a place.
@Happytravellerkimmy I felt the need to comment this because of that “secretly an asshole” thing you mentioned. You’re not secretly an asshole, assholes don’t think like that. They don’t take the time to be considerate about how their words and actions might affect people, they’re unapologetic about their behavior. I think there’s this misconception that good people are just good and don’t think really hurtful shit or have dark thoughts. But, no. People aren’t just “good” and they aren’t all “evil”. Even the worst person you know probably loves their pet and cares deeply about something good (still doesn’t make them a good person). Being good is not simply a state of being, it’s an action. People choose to do good and be kind even through all the shit they go through or might think about.
I’m in a similar boat and it’s tiring because I deal with an oblivious asshole on a daily basis. It would be so easy to choose the nuclear option, to ruin everything and bask in the satisfaction and euphoria of watching it all burn. But, that would have collateral. Other people, good people, would get hurt and I would lose them. I would hate that so I swallow my pride and deal with my anger. It’s a little bit selfish, I know that, but I don’t care. I don’t see anything wrong with doing the right thing for not 100% good reasons.
literally i had a relationship fall apart because my ex was incapable of not telling me what he was thinking, even when it was hurtful towards me and the relationship
Along with ugly truths and beautiful lies
ok like this situation could’ve been fine so easily and i know that because it’s happened to me. for me and my girlfriend’s one year anniversary i decided to surprise her with something nice: a dessert picnic after taking her out to dinner with homemade strawberry cheesecake and chocolate strawberries. she was really happy. she ate just one slice of the cheesecake, told me i did well and praised my baking skills. she brought some of it home to her parents and brother the next day and made a point to text me about it when they complimented it. but when we got to the chocolate strawberries, she told me she was sorry but she really didn’t like strawberries. of course i felt like an idiot for not learning this in the year we’d been together and going with an all strawberry dessert spread, but i didn’t resent her at all for this because she was really sweet about it. i think she handled the situation perfectly. for the cheesecake, which was just vaguely strawberry flavored and she didn’t have too much of an aversion to, she spared my feelings and made me feel good about the gesture. for the chocolate strawberries, which she specifically really dislikes, she kindly declined and apologized. tldr everyone should be more like my girlfriend because i love her and i think she’s a good person
exactly. it's not really what he did that's the problem, it's how he did it.
While I agree the comparison works and is relevant, there’s an important difference to consider: he likes vanilla. He wasn’t mad because he doesn’t like it, he was made because it wasn’t exactly specifically what he asked for down to the letter. Which makes his reaction even worse than if your girlfriend had reacted more rudely.
I had a similar situation. My dad makes this really good cherry brownie cheesecake. I hate cherries while he loves them, so for normal occasions I eat the cherry with the rest because it’s good enough that I don’t care. Once, for my graduation, I asked him to bake it with something other than cherries. He forgot I didn’t want the cherries, but I still ate that cake like a madwoman at the celebration. He’s a busy guy and doesn’t have to remember every little detail, it’s the thought that counts.
It’s been said before, but the guy in the AITA post is acting like a genuine toddler.
@@crediblesalamander8056He didn’t do shit tho
@@melaniewilson1742He literally just wanted chocolate. You’re infantilizing a man for disappointment
@@melaniewilson1742
Hell, I think he could even be ok without eating the vanilla part if he is someone who genuinely just cannot handle surprises well. He could compliment her job making the cake. Later, he could let her know that he has a knee-jerk reaction to food being different from what he expected even if it is a good different and that he hoped it didn't hurt her feelings that he didn't eat the vanilla part. But instead he acted entitled and insulted her lol
not to mention how he was automatically framing her as his request being "too simple for her", treating HER like she was the snooty one when it was the opposite. she never intended to "impress him" with the cake and its obvious, hes just looking for excuses to be upset with the cake not being exactly how he imagined it in his head. someone made the analogy that hes acting like a kid whos refusing to eat their meal because broccoli is in it, and i find that very fitting. thank you, whoever that is, youre spitting the truest facts here
edit: it makes it even more obvious how ridiculously unfair hes being when you think about how he ALSO LIKES VANILLA ICING. he ate around it not because he has a personal food ick, hes doing it purely out of spite. thats the real nail in the coffin here. this was never about the cake. it was about belittling her and making a mountain out of a molehill just to feed into his own victim complex.
Gd you fucking nailed it
Especially because like, if you want to up the sophistication level of a cake, putting the exact same icing, except possibly less flavourful, into it is.... why. Why would a good baker who wants to "improve" the recipe decide to change *that?* If she'd wanted to a broader flavour palette, she could have added raspberry or orange, or changed the central element to custard or jam. If she wanted to be fancy, she could have done something easy like making ganache in the microwave or dropping chocolate chips or chunks into the batter. Like. *Bro your girlfriend didn't pull out a second tub of Betty Crocker to flex on you, bro.*
Seriously. I actually hate vanilla, but I wouldn't take it as a personal affront that somebody put a small amount of it in a cake. Especially considering almost every recipe for cake includes vanilla extract already, anyway.
reading this was very cathartic. straight facts. holy shit
Yeah when I think "fancy cake" I think of vanilla icing. So much more extravagant than simple chocolate icing.
my favourite part was how OP waited until near the end of his post to sneak in the reveal that he did all this nonsense in front of her kids, and only in the context of how his girlfriend brought that up, like it hadn't occurred to him that might make things much worse
Every AITA post got a plottwist like that that comes up later. Its like Perry Rodan over there.
That's part of why I think this story is fake. The plot twists.
@@LimeyLassen, burying the part that makes them look bad seems like a thing people
@@Nortarachanges Adding a juicy bit of "oh no he didn't!" at the end of a post you've already gotten people invested in also seems like a thing people farming reddit would do too lol
> He did this nonsene in front of her kids
He wasn't even going to bring it up. He wasn't going to say anything.
SHE FORCED THE CONVERSATION in front of her kids and yall are even blaming that on this mans its fucking unreal.
The "I would have ordered a cake from a store and returned it if it was wrong" or however it was worded comment would have been IT for me, I don't blame the girl at all
Yeah that's the Asshole Rubicon for sure - up until about that point, there are arguments to be had about all this, but that's the point of no return for me
@@Inkinhart Man drove by every possible exit until he was on a one-way road to bachelorhood and stepped on the gas.
Bruh he’s RIGHT THOUGH. She made it into an argument and THEN he said that
@@DeathnoteBB She didn't "make it into an argument." She asked why her partner was obviously upset. That's not an argument. It's an attempt at love and empathy actually. It was *escalated* into something it never needed to be by an exceptionally rude and uncaring response. You can express disappointment in a very minor, insignificant thing without insulting and demeaning your partner's attempt at a loving, thoughtful act in front of their kids. If you're incapable of seeing how homie's respone was wildly disproportionate to the situation at hand then you may also be the type to get broken up with over something as insignificant as a cake having an ingredient you have no problems with outside of this childish "you didn't give me what I wanted ya dumb bitch" routine.
@@kylegonewild “exceptionally rude and uncaring response” Mate he said he was disappointed 💀
What gets me about this story is that at no point the guy says he didn't *like* the cake. He likes vanilla, so presumably his opposition to the cake wasn't flavor at ALL, it was entirely a petty tantrum over not getting what he wanted. He even ate around the vanilla bit, despite liking vanilla!! If he didn't like the cake, and then expressed that he didn't like the cake, I might take his side, depending on how he does so. But this obsession with getting exactly what he wishes is so toddler-brained it actually hurts me
Yeah the point about only eating the chocolate parts is what makes this so clearly petty to me.
Yeah, like, if my hypothetical girlfriend made me a cake with surprise coffee frosting or something, I'd probably eat a slice out of politeness and tell her "I'm sorry, I realise you put a lot of work into this, but I really don't like coffee". If the guy had a similar revulsion regarding vanilla, that's fair enough. But he liked the cake lol.
@@klop4228yep. he’s a man baby.
I feel like this guy probably has very little control in most other areas of his life. Doesn’t make it right but makes it make sense
@@klop4228 Exactly. If someone has an extreme distaste for a specific food, they politely say no when asked if they want it, and they apologize if the other person put a lot of effort into it, that's fine. But the cake guy doesn't even hate vanilla, he says no in a mean spirited way, and he doesn't apologize for being a jackass to his wife
this whole discourse has been blowing my goddamn mind because THIS HAPPENED TO ME and it literally never would have occurred to me to be upset about it. at my work we usually order a cake or some kind of treat for people's birthdays, so my coworkers and i were browsing a bakery's website for someone's upcoming birthday. i pointed out a lemon layer cake that looked really good and said lemon was my favorite, and my coworker said "haha i'm writing that down so we can surprise you with one on your birthday." then on my birthday they got me a lemon bundt cake which isn't really the same thing. and i was very happy about it!! it was a good cake!!! imagine what kind of antisocial nut case i would have looked like if i had sulked about it and told my coworkers "if i wanted a bundt cake i would have asked for a bundt cake"!?
CO worker is not a partner though. They get more grace ...
that would have been funny i think you should have done that
You had every right to not force yourself to eat that cake if you didn’t like it.
@@seguaye he disliked the cake. He didn’t eat the cake. The reason he said he liked the cake is he was initially still trying to preserve feelings
@@seguaye was kind of him to pretend not to be disgusted by vanilla icing on previous occasions.
I certainly avoid vanilla icing
I think the justification that bothered me most for this guy's behavior were the people that categorized her putting vanilla in between the layers as abuse; like she did it just to play mind games, instead of what it probably was. She probably just realized she wasn't going to have enough chocolate frosting to coat the cake *and* do between the layers, and substituted vanilla in a spot most rational people wouldn't notice nor care about.
he did? can you link the original post
@@fatpenguin0089What?
@@fatpenguin0089 He noticed the thin layer of vanilla frosting, per his own words because THAT is the singular thing he becomes upset about. That there was vanilla frosting between the layers of chocolate cake.
its because people on reddit are psychotic
@@Erinskihe categorised it as abuse? I mean
As someone unreasonably invested in this discourse, thank you for addressing all possible points against cake lady. I can't think of any other argument within the bounds of the information we have available that can even attempt to defend him. Also Dumptruck W.
Even as a man who is a very picky eater I have no sympathy for him. If I want something specific my responsibility is to give very specific information so that my wishes can be fulfilled accurately.
Instead he gave the most wishy-washy information possible and her cake was within his specifications, so he's completely at fault.
@@otto_jk It's also worth remembering that he doesn't generally have a problem with vanilla frosting. I think that comes up in the original AITA and Joel references it with on-screen text at 3:47. This is all just a bizarre matter of principal.
@@otto_jkHe literally said exactly what he wanted. People can’t be expected to list everything they DON’T want
@@DeathnoteBB no he didn't, his request left room for interpretation. "Nothing fancy" isn't a specific instruction.
@@jamielockdown honestly he's a very weird guy.
I think the best advice i remember growing up, is don't be disappointed if someone doesn't get you what you wanted for your birthday, because then you would be treating them like a store. The fact that she did just what he asked and he still threw a fit shows how entitled he is. I hope she did leave him because she already has children and doesn't need one more.
Exactly!!!
I think the lesson is "have some gratefulness and tact when others go out of their way for you" not "don't be disappointed." I wouldn't roast my family over it but I would not consider a new bible a considerate gift that I could simply "not be disappointed with." It would demonstrate a clear disregard for my beliefs and opinions, even if unintentional.
Don’t be disappointed when given food you dislike?
He should have been more kind. Nobody could ever make me consume vanilla icing.
@@SigFigNewton ... lmao are you cake guy? It's not relevant whether you like vanilla icing or not 😂
@@celisewillis I love chocolate cake and I hate vanilla icing
It reminds me of a Fry & Laurie sketch where two snooty restaurant diners ask a waiter for some mineral water, and when she brings them a bottle, they insist it wasn't what they asked for. "We asked for some mineral water. What you have brought us, as I think we can plainly see, is a BOTTLE of mineral water."
In the end she takes the bottle away and carries some water over in her cupped hands, dripping it onto the tablecloth in front of them lol
A devil's food cake also commonly does contain vanilla frosting, she literally followed his instructions
That’s the funny thing lmao
I don't think he realized that "Devils Food" is a distinctly specific thing from "chocolate cake".
that's not true? devil's food cake is ONLY chocolate.
@@debraolearyart if you Google image search devil's food cake there's tons of pics with vanilla frosting, though lots of pics without. seems like different people have different preferences
@@debraolearyartthe Wikipedia article for it literally shows a Devil's food cake with vanilla icing as the example image of one.
When I was 18 I thought that open and honest communication meant communicating every little problem and trying to work through it. Wasn't until getting broken up with that I realized that "open and honest" doesn't mean expressing your feelings every single time. Really was over-compensating for most of my life NEVER expressing my feelings and emotions, and since I've done my best to find a healthy balance.
I was 18. This man is in his thirties. He's lost
Life isn't over in thirties. He could learn from it.
@@Nopperabounah, he’s got deep issues that he’s likely incapable of recognising, let alone addressing
But also, when she asked, he could have admitted he was somewhat disspointed about it, without being so harsh and ungrateful about it. Like Joel points out, he came off as snooty and condescending, and did not acknowledge that she probably put in a fair amount of care and effort into it.
Are you not supposed to give the honest answer when your partner asks you a direct question?
@@TwoForFlinchin1 you're supposed to treat your partner with care and consideration. Do you think it's impossible to be honest without being a prick?
"what if she added pickles" has gotta be the most intentionally obtuse reading of the situation I have heard
Tell me you are unwilling to accept that other people have different taste buds than you without telling me that you are unwilling to accept that other people have different taste buds than you
Vanilla icing is disgusting.
It was kind of him to pretend to like it on previous occasions.
This time he was honest when asked.
And he expressed himself immaturely
What if she added turnips, huh?? What if she added a thick layer of fully-loaded handguns?? What if she slathered a rusted-out 1978 Buick convertible in vanilla icing?? That would have been awful. No one thinks of these things like I do!
@@SigFigNewton this is about the exact type of childish overreaction i would expect an overemotional male with a perpetual sense of victimhood to express lol
@@SigFigNewton "me me me me me" is all you keep saying as if you were involved in the situation. typical.
This feels viscerally like an argument that would be the plot of a Seinfeld episode and I'm here for it.
I was just thinking to myself, if it’s something that george costanza would do, yes YTA lol!
The gender swap argument is the worst. If that were the case, she’d be called a Karen and hated on more.
Okay, but what if the cake guy was in a wheelchair and the woman was his mother instead of wife? What then?
Oh my god I fully thought it was a two layered cake and half of it was vanilla. Yeah wild he cares that much.
The guy makes it sound like that because he only eats half the slice. It seems like he doesn't only eat around the vanilla but just stops eating as soon as he gets to the vanilla? Wild behavior if so.
@@narutardednerdyeah as someone who doesn't like icing... It isn't hard to eat around
Ngl that sounds so good.
@@narutardednerdY’all are really going IN on a man eating his cake “wrong” 💀
ITS CAKE
@@DeathnoteBBHe's not wrong, he's just petty. If he did it cause he hated vanilla no one would judge that, he did it out of sheer pettiness.
I think another crucial bit of subtext that’s typically glossed over is that the conversation started with the girlfriend asking: “Are you disappointed?” which would be a really strange question to ask unless the boyfriend was already exhibiting disappointed behavior. Like it was clearly obvious that he wasn’t pleased or she wouldn’t have asked.
Also, while not explicit, I think “nothing fancy” carries at least a heavy connotation that you don’t have highly specific preferences about the cake.
Lastly, we’re talking about this situation as if it’s a one-off because that’s all the context we have. Obviously this is speculation, but for the dude to be this oblivious and demanding, and for it to be a dealbreaker rather than a just a big fight, tells me that this is probably a pattern of behavior.
THIS THANK YOU. I was wondering if anyone else noticed. Like obviously he WAS pouting otherwise she wouldn't have noticed anything was wrong.
Yeah, he’s bad at pretending to like highly disappointing things
@@SigFigNewtonHIGHLY disappointing? it is a layer of frosting in a flavor that he LIKES, on a cake that he ALSO likes. if that’s highly disappointing then burning my mac n cheese today was the fucking titanic.
I would rather eat any food than a food with icing that isn’t chocolate.
With chocolate icing, chocolate cake is one of my favorite foods.
I would still eat the burned Mac and cheese, and I don’t particularly like Mac n cheese. Not everyone has the same taste buds. It’s possible to be disgusted by icing.
There are foods that I would rather eat rotten than having to eat icing, unless it’s chocolate, which I love.
Turns out not everyone is exactly the same.
This cake guy is the type of person to say “oh I don’t care let’s jus go wherever” and then get mad at the restaurant you pick
Wh- He literally gave her explicit instructions.
It’s more like him going “Hey can we get italian?” and then she pulls up to a Greek place because “It has olives and tomatoes!“
And then he quietly just eats his meal until she forces him to explain why he seems dejected, then she blows up at him for her own actions, and the entire internet complains he should have just eaten at the Greek restaurant *when he did*
It’s more like “let’s get burgers” and then being disappointed when they drive to McDonald’s
he didn't need to give her explicit instructions because his wife is not his maid. he could have specified he wanted it to be all one flavour instead of reacting like a dejected child over a thin layer of vanilla frosting in an overwhelmingly chocolate cake. the fact that a collective group of overgrown male toddlers came out in his defense doesn't make this indignant reaction over a woman who put time and effort into something for her husband any less disgusting. but then again this is nothing more than a predictable and typical male overreaction moment at things not being exactly the way they demand it to be. path,etic.
@@SigFigNewton i said this is the type of guy to do that. not thats what he is doin in this video. since you barely have a grasp on the english language let me spell it out for ur toddler brain: he is fundamentally on a molecular level the type of person to act like a little kid when he doesnt get what he wants grow up and quit defending this dude
@@avelynn5976 amazing words you hit the nail on the head and it amazes me how many other men dont see anything wrong with his behavoir
I agree that I don’t think the fundamentals of the situation, or the way people reacted to it, would be much different if the genders were swapped. People would just be using different gender stereotypes and narratives to characterize who was in the right/wrong and why. Whether it’s a man acting like an asshole or a woman, there are always people capable of cramming situations into tidy, prewritten gender-war scripts.
Yeah this is the kind of statement that feels obvious in hindsight
I wonder how the reactions would be if he ended his post with “also she is Canadian”.
"AITA for being honest with my Quebecois girlfriend when she asked a question about the birthday cake she made me?"
@@airl10 My Quebecois girlfriend always bakes my cakes EXACTLY to my specifications!!
Hello JJ I watch your channel and like your videos on the history of stuff. I was pleasantly surprised to see your comment when looking through these comments.
I honestly don't think this guy has ever cooked for someone and be invested in if it's well-received or not. You can come at this with "on principle", Technically" and "hypothetically" all you want but on one side was a kind gesture in the shape of work and care and on the other side there was a slap in the face as a response.
When I cook and bake for people I truly truly absolutely want honest feedback. I'd feel way worse if they lied to "spare my feelings" and I went on thinking they liked what I made for them
@@InaneBlatherPodcast How is this about honest feedback? He likes the cake(confirmed 100%) like, objectively good cake! He just wanted to be rude to his gf because he deserves perfect *service*.
@@InaneBlatherPodcast Yeah but that's not what this is. If someone makes me food I'll be grateful even if it's not the best or what I wanted exactly. I'm gonna assume you've never lived alone
@@InaneBlatherPodcast You do realize that you can give honest feedback and legitimate criticism without insulting someone... right?
"It's delicious, but maybe next time add more frosting." "The pasta is more stringy than I am used to, but I appreciate the effort." "I'm sorry, but I don't like ranch dressing. That's on me for not saying something beforehand."
@@onijester56 exactly! He could have said something like "thank you so much for baking this delicious cake! To be completely honest I was a little thrown off that there was vanilla inside, I should have been more specific that I just wanted chocolate on chocolate, but I really appreciate you making me a birthday cake"
"Also dog is here, so you're just going to have to cope"
*dog disappears*
I think the part that got me was that the whole issue was the cake not matching a very specific idea in his head. Not because she did anything too weird, like add pickles, and not even because he disliked the frosting. If it was a random day and she made a random cake, he would have liked it. He let his mental image of a cake get unreasonably locked in without expressing that to his gf in advance. Instead, he frames it as him being disappointed in her and her actions to externalize a 100% internal issue.
I feel like no matter what cake she made he would have found something to be disappointed about on his special birthday. I obviously don't have proof but...I dislike his vibe
I agree. It's really, REALLY not even remotely hard to just say "oh hey actually i would have prefered without vanilla so i was a little dissapointed but it's okay", but man legit ATE AROUND THE FROSTING while saying that he doesn't dislike vanilla. He externalized the responsability for his own feelings to her, essentially forcing his partner into a subservient role in which she's responsible for making sure nothing upsets him. And yeah i don't believe it is a one time issue when dude is very clearly incapable of seeing how condescending and entitled he came accross
the direct 1:1 comparison would be like saying "I want a burger with lettuce and tomatoes." In most places, pickles are included in burgers by default. I absolutely have to specify that I don't want pickles, every time, to reasonably expect not to get pickles. But this would be like getting a burger with pickles as well as lettuce and tomatoes and being indignant about it. And in this scenario, he even likes these hypothetical pickles! I just do not understand the pettiness.
Yeah I had this argument also.
He basically blames her for not reading his mind.
@@xiniks literally! I’m glad someone is finally saying it it’s driving me insane how are Joel and all of the comments and I’m not sure about Twitter because I don’t fuck with Elon but no one is talking about the fact that it’s a devil’s food cake and majority of those that I have ever seen and that’s a lot since they’re one of my favorite have had vanilla filling. It makes the second disagreement point in this video completely moot, and really does just mean he wanted a mind reader.
Chocolate frosting typically has vanilla flavoring in it. Had she dyed the vanilla frosting brown then he wouldnt have noticed.
yuuup. This Cake -guy- boy is basically doing the classic "NUH UH! I DON'T WANT THIS COOKIE, I WANT A NONBROKEN COOKIE! IT DOESN'T TASTE THE SAME, WAAAHHHH!" temper tantrum
The guy is definitely wrong but this is just dumb. They do not taste the same at all
Next year's revenge cake: After he eats the entire thing and says he loves it, she stands up, points at him, and says, "HA! I put fake chocolate frosting in the middle of the cake and you didn't notice! It was vanilla the entire time! Take that!"
(yes I am the type of petty yet calculating person who would do that)
@@randallhudson6231 They're saying you wouldn't noticed if vanilla was mixed into the chocolate. Of course vanilla tastes different on its own.
@@LimeyLassen I guess we're just making up shit in our heads now because reality isn't interesting enough to roast this guy
I hope cake guy doesn't find a genie lamp, any wish he makes will either leave him extremely angry or six feet under.
I saw many people arguing that she didn't care about what he wanted and only thought about what she wanted, which is why she added the vanilla. But that argument misses that she made the rest of the cake out of chocolate, so she clearly did care about what he wanted.
Yeah. Was unfortunate that she made a cake he didn’t like and he handled it poorly
When I heard about the duality of humanity I didn't think it would show over a reddit AITA post where a guy gets a cake from his gf, but here we are
A disgusting cake that had vanilla icing
He learned to be more specific and hopefully he learned to be careful of others feelings
0:18 NO! WHERE DID TOTORO GO?! I WANNA COPE WITH IT MORE!
I've seen plenty of posts on reddit about adult women being divas about their birthday, and everyone is like "get over yourself, this is really childish behaviour". Which is generally the correct response to adults being all extra about their birthday.
Then this guy does THE EXACT SAME THING (even pettier, honestly) and somehow everyone has his back. Hmmm...
idk if "everyone has his back" - it seems to me like it's a small and distinct minority who have his back, and Joel the Small handily dealt with them. Normal and healthy people (and those of us who do our best to emulate them) agree that this guy is definitely the asshole.
[ETA: I guess _some_ people do have his back, seeing the response just below mine here - but then again, this appears to be dealt with in my qualifying clause.]
Ok but how is it a petty tantrum. He was asked his feelings. He didn't complain at all before he was asked.
I'm autistic. If I was expecting a cake to not have vanilla and it turned out it did I too would be unreasonably upset. I might cut around the vanilla parts. I wouldnt complain.
I struggle to tell even white lies so when asked I would freeze or be honest. I don't know why people have to take sides. Not every situation has a victor. Sometimes its just two people with completely understandable emotions and reactions.
@donov25 im austistic too and i agree this guy should just grow up.
@@donov25Issue is, he went beyond that by far. Chewing out his partner over it is shitty, autism or no.
@@donov25You can express your feelings, just consider your words more than this guy did. It's all in the delivery.
"Sorry, I know you put a lot of work into this but I'm really not feeling vanilla right now" would be at least decent, I think.
"If I wanted vanilla I would have asked for vanilla" comes across immature and kinda rude, I wouldn't even speak to a stranger with this kinda attitude, not a way you should talk to a loved one who just made you a cake.
In answer to the "what about his feelings" - there is a way to express this if he absolutely has to. Something like "I'm sorry, I don't really like the vanilla frosting, but the rest of the cake is delicious and I love that you made a cake for me."
Scrolled down looking for this.
Hell if the cake guy took home some workplace politics skills, he could even compliment sandwich it or go "This cake is amazing. I love it so much. I bet next time it could be made even better if we explore what it would be like without the vanilla but we would need to compare to know for sure. Still, since this cake is really good its a high bar to overcome."
Im surprised i had to scroll this far down to see the correct take. The guy is valid to be able to express the vanilla as not his favorite but the way he said it can turn a negative experience to a positive one.
@@Bababoey3333
I feel like the workplace politics example is a bit passive aggressive.
@@Bababoey3333that's nz how normal people talk
@@Bababoey3333 I would simply respond by telling her that our season of friendship has ended.
Devil's food cake traditionally has a layer of vanilla icing in the middle.
It's like asking for cheese crust pizza w extra cheese then flipping out there's marinara sauce in between the layers of cheese.
no it doesn't wtf
@@ulture i have a recipe from a cookbook from the 80s that would disagree lol
@@ThrottleKitty “from the 80’s” Is it the 80’s now????
@@DeathnoteBBWas there some consensus had in 2020 that decided devils food cake doesn't have vanilla frosting between the layers? 🤔
@@DeathnoteBB do u kno the word "traditionally"
Even if OP bought the cake from a store and they got it wrong, it still wouldn’t be ok if he got all snippy about it like he did in the post.
“If I wanted x, then I would’ve asked for x!” is not a mature response to someone getting your food wrong, period.
Seriously dude. A big part of my own path to growing up is that I’ve learned to not be disappointed or lash out when I don’t get exactly what I want like I’m a fuckin grown ass adult why am I gonna whine and complain if the burger place adds a sauce I don’t like. I have no issue sending smth back but also I’m not gonna make a big deal abt it. Having worked in food service for like 8 years I always appreciate people who calmly told us we got it wrong and don’t act like children. There’s a way to have this cake convo and not make it a major relationship issue. Sounds like these two have more going on than just cake lmao
Yeah I've always been fairly apologetic and sheepish when pointing out someone got my order wrong. Like "Hey, sorry but I wanted no tomatoes...". Just making sure the service worker knows I'm not mad at them.
Couple months ago a guy asked for no walnuts and no raisins in his salad. Proceeds to get mad at me because it has paramesan and croutons. These people are playing mind games with people they see as beneath them.
not wanting to make him another cake next year is about as far from "going nuclear" as possible. That's a perfectly rational response to someone being an ingrate about the food you made them.
My wife who loves to bake asked what kind of cake I'd like for my birthday this year, and I said cheesecake. She got the idea to make butter pecan cupcakes with frosting, caramel sauce, and peanut butter chips. They were delicious. I love my wife.
Lucky that you liked it despite it not being what you expected
The only way weaponized incompetence would play into this is if everything about the story was swapped out for another famous reddit cake post about the pineapple upside-down cake.
A gf/wife asked her partner multiple times to get her a pineapple upside-down cake for her bday from a specific bakery. She told him explicitly and kept bringing it up gently/subtly over the course of a month (or more) because she was REALLY EXCITED for this cake and all he had to do was order it. He also, to my recollection, indicated he would get it for her.
Come her birthday, and he gave her a cheap vanilla sheet cake you can find at any grocery store. So why is that different?
As Joel said, dude did not explicitly forbid vanilla icing (and said he likes it), and almost all of the cake she MADE HIM was per his wants.
The pineapple cake story has the dude not even putting in the effort to do the one thing his partner asked. She gave him months of prep and didn’t want ANY GIFTS besides that cake. Instead he didn’t even put in the minimum effort to get her the type of cake he’d indicated he was getting and been told about, and instead picked up something easily available (and if I recall, got her an extra gift of an ipad that seemed more for himself than her). Chocolate cake story had this girl putting in every bit of effort that she promised in making this dude a cake (making the cake with chocolate icing), and the only issue that he was reacting to was the addition of vanilla that he didn’t communicate was something he absolutely did not want.
If you want to bring up weaponized incompetence, you have to go by it’s definition. Weaponized incompetence is something deliberate that means a task doesn’t get done (overall, if someone does something and does it badly to the point of needing a do-over or fixing, it means its not done) so that the other person will never ask them to do it again. This gf put in hours of effort and made him a chocolate cake with chocolate icing - she just also added in a bit of vanilla (that he likes) in the middle. She did not ruin the cake, she put in the effort, she got it done right - and the vanilla was added on a good faith assumption that be liked it (he did) and its presence did not affect anything at all (which is true). Dude just TREATED it like weaponized incompetence and put her down in front of her kids like she was an employee or servant. The reaction and everything else was on him, not her.
PS: with the bakery remark the BF made? Bakeries usually put something specific in the centre of a cake unless you ask them not to. An Ice Cream cake looks the same inside for every single one, and my local grocery store bakery puts custard in the middle for every single cake. If you want something different in those centres, you need to TELL THEM, and if you don’t and pull at fit later the bakery will say “all our cakes are made like this, you needed to specify/ask” and it would be YOUR FAULT for not giving proper info while ordering and you’d be seen as an ass. So no matter what this dude was arguing it was misguided and entitled as hell.
Exactly.
Thank you for pointing out that a bakery wouldn't even put up with the guy's behavior.
@@Aelffwynn in what universe? If you order a chocolate cake and they give you it with vanilla, that’s their problem
Bro, Bakery do not put random filing in every Sheet Cake for no fucking reasonwith out proper labeling. what are you literally on about.
@@Jechti307 Seriously why are so many comments saying the most nonsensical bs
Kudos to Joel's dog, the real owner of the channel for allowing Joel out of basement
Its name is dump truck.
It's always good to see Dumptruck in the videos
@@thefearhawk8805 YESSSSSSS
48th time I've seen you since I've started counting.
There are normal ways to express his disappointment with the cake. He deliberately made a show of it. In front of her kids.
It's actually crazy to talk about/to your partner like the grocery store bakery
A gender swap wouldn't affect the analysis? Are you kidding me? If it were a guy making a cake for his girlfriend and she whined about it, everyone would be shocked she didn't throw a freaking parade in his honor for even attempting baking a cake. Duh!
The argument he was responding to was about anti-cake-guy people switching to pro-cake-girl if the roles were reversed (ie people are biased against the man). Your comment is about the opposite (ie people are biased against the woman), which isn't brought up in the video because it's just not what he's responding to.
That would be common.
There are online spaces though where there would be people calling the guy a terrible listener
the way people would wish ACTUAL PHYSICAL HARM on such a woman...
there's also always just the fact that different ppl grow up with different ideas of what a "chocolate cake" means. ever since I was a baby my dad has always baked a two-layer chocolate cake with mashed bananas between the layers and then chocolate icing over the whole thing for every birthday (usually with decorations of candy, maybe spelling out my initials or my age). when I hear "chocolate cake" I think of that, and if I were asked to make a "chocolate cake, nothing fancy" that's exactly what I would make. I'm sure that this woman is in the same boat, simply always thinking that chocolate cakes have vanilla stuff in the middle because that's what she's always known. if you want something specific, you need to be specific in your request.
That's interesting I've never encountered a cake like that, with the banana. Did your dad use a recipe or did he make that up? I've had lots of banana cake and chocolate cake but not that kind of cake. Sounds good though
idk it's just what he's always made lmao. it's the platonic ideal of cake, the default. as far as I know it has existed since the state of nature
Initially I thought that the dog was Little Joel’s hairy chest and that I’d wandered into a ‘70s porno.
*_HOT_*
@@idontwantahandlethough Ikr? I was so disappointed when the cake turned out to be literal…
I’ve got a pretty simple ethic for this. When someone gives you a gift, say thank you and move on even if you don’t like it.
Also I think the main thing the sort of Reddit style arguments people have been having about this miss the main point of gift giving. When you receive a gift the main joy of it comes from receiving a gift from someone else, knowing they took the effort to get something they thought you’d like. It’s a different feeling than buying something for yourself. So I think if your main evaluation of a gift is whether it’s perfectly what you wanted, you’re not interested in the other person and just want something like a spoiled kid on Christmas. It seems like an extension of this new movement to sterilize relationships by observing them through very clinical and professional definitions so that you never have to confront the fact that you’re dealing with another imperfect person or form a meaningful bond that overcomes very surface level problems like having the wrong frosting on a cake.
You're not an honest person. When your partner asks you if you like something you OWE THEM an honest answer. That's my opinion anyway.
@@ezralegum6236you also owe them kindness. He failed there.
@@TheSamuel12777I think the guy may be someone who resents the expectation that he act like something he isn’t and hide his true feelings.
Like.. there’s a decent chance he’s autistic and that’s how he perceives the behavior of going out of your way to protect the feelings of others
My sister made me a pastry with blueberries in it (which I'm sadly allergic to) and I'm so glad i wasn't an entitled ass about it because it turns out most women aren't conniving duplicitous gremlins trying to ruin your birthday. She felt terrible for her mistake and made it up to me by insisting on making another pastry, which i bet of he'd been nice to her about it she would have wanted to make up the very small "mistake" to him somehow.
i watched this video with my mom and when little joel said he would kill his girlfriend and then himself, my mom said "then there would be kids with no parents" as if little joel was being serious and she found the hole in his argument.
im sorry but your mom's comment for me is so grandma-coded i can *hear* both my grandmas saying it. thank you i love my grandmas i miss them
You're on the correct side Little Joel. Cake Guy was looking a gift horse in the mouth. For me, gratitude is an important thing. Regardless of whether you get me the correct flavor for my birthday cake, I was raised to believe that "it's the thought that counts". As a single man, I don't expect anyone to do anything nice for me, so the fact that this guy was getting a cake baked for him at all is what he should have appreciated. Instead, he was picky and ungrateful when he didn't even make the cake.
You deserve a cake for sure.
My favorite take was that it was ableist to criticize cake guy because some people have food sensitivities and you should always respect that. As though that were the SITUATION AT ALL.
it isn't ableist to think this guy is an asshole. but henry, and many others, are reproducing the idea that when someone asks 'are you disappointed', that people expect us to *know* that they want a figurative answer, not a literal one. this guy is throwing a patriarchal tantrum, but 'ableism' remarks also refer to a valid frustration
@@Djsokdkfjdkdhe immediately became the asshole when he said "if i wanted vanilla in the cake i would have asked for vanilla in the cake" like she was his servant failing to satisfy his order
@@thomasallister3446”if I wanted vanilla I would have asked for it” could just be a neurodivergent person explaining their communication style.
Being autistic is extremely difficult
@@Djsokdkfjdkd god forbid someone go out of their way to do something nice for someone they love and not get it exactly how the other person would have liked but never specified, especially when that didn't end up harming anyone anyway. ableism discourse inherently revolves around people acting like entitled d*cks and expecting others to give them a pass for it. it's really telling that every single person defending this man keeps talking about the wife like she were an incompetent maid rather than his wife. all you're doing is telling women that they should never do nice things for men lest they risk getting it wrong and being attacked by entitled misogynistic man children shielding themselves behind a veil of righteousness. gross behaviour.
A picture of this cake will solve everything
i couldn’t agree more
If it was surprise coconut, and he never said he hated coconut, he'd still be an asshole with his reaction.
I don't really get why, but some people truly have a hard time separating "emotion I felt" with "action I took", and act like they're one and the same. So when questioned on their actions, they act like their feelings are being attacked. Cake guy is valid for being disappointed with getting vanilla frosting he didn't want, that's just taste preference. But there are sooooo many better ways to express mild disappointment than what he did lmao. Bring back 17th century etiquette classes for this guy
One thing that people aren't bringing up enough: What if the kids liked vanilla? He's a grown ass 34 year old man, and there are kids present. We're only hearing this from his perspective, so we don't actually know why his girlfriend put vanilla icing on it. But maybe she thought she could make exactly what he wanted, and also make it more tasty for the kids? She could have put a lot of thought into it and tried to make a cake that appealed to everyone. This man needs to face the reality that when you're a grown adult and have a family with kids, your birthday isn't going to be 100% your own.
Tell that to cake guy defenders and they'll say his feelings are more important than the kids because iTs HiS BiRtHdAy.
No but literally it's literally a birthday cake... It should be to the birthday person's liking over the guests liking.
@@mickeewoop-woop9020 "The guests" You mean THE KIDS
Two thoughts about the cake guy. 1) Comes across like a taker, not a giver, so perhaps isn't familiar with putting a lot of heart and passion into something that then gets rejected. He should probably do that a lot more to build empathy. 2) If you have a negative opinion to give but the other person is in a raw emotional place, just be nice for now, and say thanks! You can bring up the negative opinions a day or two later.
I learned 2) when someone mentioned their friend gave a horrible talk, and right after, when they asked how it went, they just focused on congratulating them. They gave them honest, detailed notes on what could be better but only the next day after things had settled down, and it was well received.
> Bring it up in a day or two
Did you even listen. SHE brought it up. SHE forced the conversation. BRO was just going to let it GO
@@Jechti307 "It was really kind of you to make this cake for me! Thank you so much for being so thoughtful."
So, did you read what I wrote? Where the guy's friend asked them how their talk went. And they were smart -- they detected the timing wasn't right and avoided a direct answer while things were still emotionally raw.
What the woman was looking for was not honest criticism but gratitude and confirmation. She was obviously feeling insecure when she saw he wasn't eating his cake that she had spent hours on. He had a chance to handle it gracefully and he did not, I'm not sure what to tell you.
@@coder13
" She asked me if I was disappointed"
Your solution to this situation is for him to straight up lie to her about how he's feeling and lied to her about why he's upset. For some freaking reason you think that would be a healthy response to this situation?
Read it again she had already noticed he was disappointed and she asked him directly why.
She push the conversation and he was just honest with her.
Why is everyone continuously trying to twist the story.
@@Jechti307 Hey, you do you. If you want to grow personally or not for the sake of others around you, that's a choice you'll have to make on your own. Maybe everyone around you is super direct and blunt with each other and you're all happy, and that's fine.
I never lied in my response. I said thanks and called out how appreciative I was. I would probably still feel disappointed in the moment but discussing it would be better saved for a later time. My appreciation would have been genuine. I bet the conversation would have stopped there.
If she pushed again, I'd say something like, "It's really delicious, but I like the chocolate part a lot more" And if she pushed again, I'd say, "You seem to be really worried about something, but I'm having a great time with you and really appreciate what you've done for me. Let's just enjoy the party and we can talk more about the cake tomorrow, I promise."
Maybe you, like me, are on the spectrum, and would like to live in a world where everyone talks about things at face value. But in reality, people are contradictory, insecure, and unconfident, and navigating this mess at a high level involves really understanding the person and context behind the words. This can seem frustrating, but to me, realizing this was an opportunity to step up and work at becoming a better person.
@@coder13
You are projecting so much on to this it is simply unreal.
You are completely changing the dynamic of the situation and trying to change the conversation that happened to justify your perception of the man's actions.
You are asking him to lie to her. You're asking him to treat her like a child and cancel her and act like she doesn't have the emotional stability to handle the fact that he was disappointed there was vanilla in the cake. He's allowed to be disappointed he did not bring it up. He wasn't going to bring it up.
She asked him directly if he was disappointed and he told her why no amount of " well hunny i enjoyed the cake in the Chocolat part was really good and vanilla but I specifically asked for just. Chocolate" and even more so he went on to say he liked the cake and he ain't around the vanilla which he didn't want telling her it was still good it's just not what he asked for and was slightly disappointed.
So just because he did not express that position in flowerily soft-coated talk Downey language enough for you he's in the wrong here.
And yes I don't want everyone to sugarcoat and lie to me and try to protect my feelings instead of just telling me if I did something that disappointed them are upset of them even if I was trying to do something nice. I am not going to change how I react to my emotions and the emotions of others just a cuddle allistic people cuz I don't want to be coddled.
The way you talk about treating the lady in your response and your 3 steps of " I'm fine are you sure your okay, don't worry about it" is exactly the kind of baby talk infestation I feel every time someone realizes I'm autistic and starts talking slower to me.
I’m a strictly chocolate dessert kind of guy and a fairly picky eater, but even I would have no issue with vanilla frosting. You gotta be insane to agree with cake guy.
ay I'm fairly neutral but I agree that cake guy did do an oppsie. don't think it's "insane" to agree with him though like come on its just a silly cake debate for us, it's not a serious debacle to strangers on the internet.
@@gotmilkbutt who is everyone lol look at the first videos comments
@@arrowheaded We gotta Both Sides this cake debate.
@@gotmilkbutt a lot of people on Twitter and in the comments on the first Joel cake guy video are team birthday boy. Lots of people saying it's not fair to expect people to eat something they hate just to spare someone's feelings. Which you might notice has nothing to do with this situation because he admitted the cake was good
i agree with cake guy that it factually wasn’t what he asked for but whether it’s important/worth fighting about is another thing. i kinda vaguely remember a birthday where my parents made me a cake i didn’t expect or it wasn’t my favorite but… it’s cake. delicious either way
i hope no one bakes him a cake ever again
I fear for the poor grocery store employee/bakery worker who would have to deal with his tantrums
One of the lesser curses in a witch's arsenal
What gets me the most is the way this guy experienced and described things is exactly my mindset as a child. He's personally invested in this cake and is hinging his happiness on it, when...its just cake? I love cake, i love food and even have occasional weight problems, but its not that hard to find a really good German or Vietnamese bakery and have all the cake you want.
It feels like there's some neurodivergeance happening here because it's obvious this guy doesn't care about the cake and simply can't process and express what's actually going on.
I think it's fine that he didn't like the cake and expressed it, it's more the "how" of his expression. I know that if I made a cake for my partner, and they didn't like it, I'd want feedback on how to make it more to their preference next time around. The problem, as the video mentions, was both the setting of his expression and his wording of said problem.
He didn't even finish the slice of cake, he doesn't dislike vanilla icing but he was so caught up on this quite frankly minor error that he sat there picking at the cake she made like a child
@@synthiandrakon why are you getting so worked up about someone who eats around the frosting?
@@synthiandrakon I agree, my comment was more to add nuance to the conversation surrounding this post than it was to defend him.
Wait: I was MARRIED to a CHEF and he never baked me a birthday cake. Huh.
Its funny to me how so many peopIe talking about this think that the desire for a cake to be to yourexact specifications on yourbirthday somehow trumps the desire for appreciation and vaIidation byyour partner in a reIationship
Him not getting a cake he wanted is not a big deaI, her feeIing shamed and chastised for making a minor mistake when working hard to do a kind thing for her loved one is a much bigger deaI.
I know there has been a Iot of talk lately about how peopIe are entering reIationships much Iess than 10 or 20 years ago, but I've never reaIIy reckoned with what that means untiI now because there is a zero percent chance that someone in a happy reIationship couldnt see that emotionaI support is more important than a cake Imao
I wonder what's the bigger difference:
A) eating devil's food cake and chocolate frosting with or without added vanilla frosting
B) eating devil's food cake with chocolate and vanilla frosting, with or without a girlfriend
which is the bigger change from what he wanted for his birthday?
We literally do not know.
I certainly consider vanilla icing disgusting
And was once in a relationship that I didn’t value
Every time you bring up this discorse I just more and more want cake.
Me to. As long as it doesn’t have vanilla icing.
😐
Please, Joel, for your safety, for the safety of your loved ones, never bake a cake, it is not worth the risk
It is the THOUGHT THAT COUNTS. my mom drilled!!! That into my head. Since I was a BABY. Its not the gift that matters, it's that someone cared enough about you to try.
The thing that bothers me about Cake Guy is that it doesn’t seem he’s mad about the cake flavors - it sounds like he’s upset she didn’t follow his exact instructions. He doesn’t care about the outcome, only that he couldn’t perfectly control her
That’s a lot of assuming you’re doing there
Vanilla icing absolutely ruins chocolate cake for me and I often eat it anyway
But if someone I trusted asked me directly…
I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I even feel like there are totally valid potential reasons for her decision that haven’t been explored. Like what if she didn’t have enough cocoa powder to make all of the icing chocolate, so she made as much chocolate frosting as possible with the ingredients she had, used that on the outside, then used vanilla in the middle? Or if she was using premade ingredients, maybe she had leftover vanilla frosting from something else, and she wanted to use it up. Regardless, there’s no way this dude should’ve felt slighted and I’m so grateful that none of the men in my family would ever be so disturbed by my baking that they’d post on Reddit about it.
Also, probably never seen a more hilarious use of the role reversal argument. If my husband baked me a cake, it would almost certainly be bad, but I’d be moved to tears and eat it with enthusiasm.
Me, a morally superior person if I got chocolate cake with vanilla frosting despite me not specifically asking for vanilla frosting:
"Oh wow, vanilla frosting too, I didn't even think of that! This is great thank you for baking me a cake, this is so good! Yum yum!"
Thanks little Joel for being a normal human
Watching this is the first time in a long time that I've felt completely in agreement with someone else. This toddler of a man would have said something like ' ooh vanilla, I wasn't expecting that, it gives a great color contrast. Cut me a big slice!' if he actually appreciated her.
@@lolababs206 He wants complete and perfect consideration and in return offers zero of that. The only redemption arc out of this is for him to bake her a cake and document it online to be mocked
If he appreciated her he would lie and never get what he wants?
Unhinged
@@SigFigNewton if he had social skills that progressed beyond toddlerhood, he could figure out a way to express his wishes without a tantrum that only made his problem worse. I have no idea how such a person could even function in a job with his complete lack of diplomacy or rapport.
@@Jones-pj2jk that last comment of yours I agree with
If I wanted another Little Joel video about the cake, I would have told you! /s
ive made an unbearably chocolatey cake by request before. i love chocolate. people dont realize that an entirely chocolate flavored cake can be so overwhelming until they're eating it. its just too rich to actually enjoy. she did nothing wrong, if anything she made the cake more edible
Idk my grandma always made me layered chocolate cake on my bday when I was a lil kid, and it was never like way too rich or sugary, cuz it wasn't 100% pure cocoa and sugar with flour, it was a reasonable amount of chocolate flavoring in both the icing and cake part, and a dusting of almonds on top. I certainly don't think breaking up the chocolate flavor with some vanilla icing or having chocolate frosting on a vanilla/yellow cake would be bad, but it is actually completely normal and doable to make a chocolate cake out of all chocolatey layers.
Unhinged take. People have to have the same taste buds as you?
Vanilla icing ruins chocolate cake for me. Plenty of people know for a fact that they want it to be entirely chocolate
Why are so many of the people who disagreed with the initial assessment acting like this is some scenario where he didn't get what he wanted from a restaurant? It's like they're approaching it from an angle of her not correctly providing the requested service, not taking into account that these people are supposed to be partners. Do her feelings just completely not matter here? He's so focused on the fact that he didn't get exactly what he wanted, that the fact that she thought to make him a cake and then exerted time and effort to make that cake, all for him, for his birthday, is overshadowed. That must be crushing for the gf. At the very least, I'd never make him another cake again in the future.
This is all spot on. I'm especially annoyed by that first idea, the "everyone's allowed to express their emotions". I'm not convinced that not wanting vanilla icing is...an emotion?
I've definitely had a massive, disproportionate emotional response to something minor that my husband did. I'm sure a lot of people have? There are ways to be honest without letting the emotion turn into judgement or blame. Things like "yeah, I do feel kinda disappointed and angry even? But it's not your fault, and I know I'm overreacting. I'm really sorry, and I'm going to try my best to enjoy this
A want is a feeling. Not wanting something is equally a feeling.
Being successful in a relationship means knowing how to express things in a way so that they will not hurt your partner. That's called maturity because you are thinking about someone other than yourself, and we, as a society, value egotism less and consider it to be juvenile. Being able to relate a thought out loud without crushing others is a sign that you have done some work and looked at yourself critically. I've often been told by people that I am too blunt--that I have no chill. While people often praise that shit on the internet because it seems to speak to their primal urges, it's actually been a very big hindrance to me and my development of social relationships, so I am working on how I say things to others.
This guy spoke in a flippant manner and it hurt his girlfriend, then he doubled down on it and has to ask strangers on the internet to confirm what he already knows.
Yes! My whole stance is that, the disappointment isn't wrong but his behavior is. He should care about her feelings with his delivery and she should be open to disappointment if she asks. It's not the content of the discussion, it's the manner in which it happens.
I'm also too blunt. It's either that or doormat mode for me. Finding the balance isn't easy but to just not try? I can't wrap my head around it because I still care about the effect I have on others.
Dudes who think she's in the wrong are the ones that are constantly thinking about the Roman Empire. I don't understand why, but that sounds right to me
Dudes that think he’s in the wrong are the ones constantly listening to Eminem
I wish little joel was there for my entire last relationship as i had been dating a Cake Guy
You know that the people saying "what if the roles were reversed?" if the roles were truly reversed, they would %100 call the woman an ungrateful b***h and side with the guy that walked away. 100%
No. I don’t know that. I highly suspect it’s incorrect about a lot of them.
I feel like the more honest communication would have been "Yeah I didn't really like the vanilla frosting on the cake, I should have been more specific" not "I didn't like that you added vanilla frosting, I was pretty clear about asking for a chocolate cake". As a cake baker I would actually like it if someone told me if they didn't like my cake. Not to this degree, but I'd still want to hear.
How more specific can you be than “all chocolate”. She just decided to add something extra. He was not at fault for her deciding to be fancy
@@DeathnoteBB well yeah, but if you ask for an all meat dinner you'd also expect there to be seasoning, wouldn't you? Vanilla-chocolate frosting is just a little bit of flair that you'd assume would improve the cake. Also, what this guy is at fault for is saying that a specific part of a cake wasn't to his liking in a pretty childish and rude way, not because he didn't like that part of the cake.
@@just-meesTo be fair, vanilla icing does ruin chocolate cake for many people
I keep thinking about how cake guy used “nothing fancy”. Normally, I feel like nothing fancy implies that since someone is doing something nice for you you say “nothing fancy” to indicate that you are not expecting them to put a lot of effort in and are not invested in getting a perfect result. But then he is completely miffed that she deviated from his very nonchalant instructions…
“Nothing fancy”
*does something fancy*
You: Why is he upset about this
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@@DeathnoteBB Vanilla frosting layer is FANCY ? you have very low standards for fancy. I believe vanilla frosting layers is absolutely normal part of any cake.
I'd be so overjoyed if I had someone in my life that cared enough to take their time and make something for me, anything at all, especially going through all the work to bake and ice a cake. I just can't imagine having someone go through all that effort and show how much they care, only to be told the end result was somehow lacking or not what I wanted. How utterly selfish, self absorbed, and heedless someone would have to be to respond to such an act of kindness and love in such a manner. I think the individual upset about the cake could really use a perspective change so they might better value what they do have rather than piss, moan, and cause fights about getting pretty much exactly what they wanted with a bonus layer of vanilla.
I’m done forcing myself to eat things that I dislike when they’re unhealthy.
Your comment makes it sound like he was obligated to pretend that he liked it
I'm gonna miss hearing you talk about this. grateful this is stored in the digital archives. you best believe I'm sharing this saga with a friend so we can both talk about it.
Equating vanilla frosting on a cake with pickles is so disingenuous it boggles the mind. Just pretending that vanilla is not a completely appropriate addition to make a cake more interesting
Everyone else’s taste buds are required to be the same as yours?
Vanilla icing absolutely ruins cake for me
Grow up. Not everyone is exactly like u
Can't wait for Joel's true crime style podcast about this cake incident.
A big thing I noticed in this discourse on Twitter is that people think she "grilled him" about it, but like, no? She asked "are you disappointed", an emotionally vulnerable question, and he responded with effectively "You didn't do as I asked", an incredibly selfish and callous response. What was the positive outcome of his statement? She could have either been upset silently or an argument starts, there's no good way it's going after what he said.
There's also the argument where people say he's autistic, which is not stated at any point, nor is it an excuse. As a neurodivergent adult myself, I know that it's still my responsibility not to be a dick. If you hurt someone because of your neurodivergence, that's the reason it happened, not an excuse that makes it okay. It sucks, but you don't get to treat it as a get-out-of-jail-free card to treat others poorly. It's harder for us, but we still have to develop the emotional maturity to not harm others.
Being autistic is not an excuse - he was the asshole and should be condemned, so that he knows this behaviour is unacceptable and does not repeat it. But it is an explanation. People attribute all sorts of nasty motives to him - that he's entitled, that he sees himself as superior, whatever have you - when it might just be an obsessive fixation on technical details and trouble regulating emotions. As for why it was never mentioned in the post, it might be undiagnosed. I had shown signs of autism since I was a toddler, but got diagnosed only recently, at the age of 21. When the symptoms are less severe, they can be overlooked for a long time.
My point is; this is obviously bad behaviour that he should avoid, but the possibility that he's autistic is a good reason not to demonize him or jump to conclusions about his motives.
@@Halucygeno Right, that's what I was saying. Whether he's autistic or not is immaterial, he was still an asshole in that scenario. My larger point is that people are projecting, which is natural, but also something to be mindful of in yourself.
I was hoping you were gonna address one of the points I saw brought up that did have me thinking for more than a second. Some people brought up the idea that the guy might be on the autism spectrum without knowing it because of what seems like an overreaction to an unexpected thing (the frosting) and his noticeable lack of social awareness of what he did wrong and why she reacted that way.
The thing is, assuming that was true, that still wouldn't be a complete exoneration for the guy. Even autistic people would be perfectly capable of handling that situation in a way that didn't mean telling your wife that you see her as being on the same level as some sort of maid.
The issue is he was talking about an autistic trait in an ableist way. He wasnt going in on how the guy handled it poorly, he was making fun of the fact that it not being right mattered to him at all, and called eating around the part he didn't want childlike. Even if that guy is an asshole for his later comments, it is still ableist to make fun of these things, and normalizes makiing fun of those things in autistic people who are not being an asshole.
To use a legal analogy, she satisfied the substantial compliance rule. "The substantial-compliance rule, also known as the substantial-performance doctrine, is a legal principle that states that if someone makes a good-faith attempt to fulfill an agreement or legal requirement, but falls short in some way, their performance may still be considered complete if the essential purpose is accomplished." He is a monster.
What annoys me about point 1 is that no one in their right mind is criticizing Cake Guy for having preferences, or even expressing his disappointment that his preferences weren't followed as closely as he wanted. The entire issue stems from his inability to communicate th at disappointment fairly, maturely, or (and here's the really important part) effectively.
Here's the finale for any of you "super logical alpha males" out there. In this situation, your goal is to establish your preference clearly to your partner IN A WAY THAT MAKES THEM INCLINED TO REMEMBER AND HONOR THAT PREFERENCE. Not to sulkelly debate-bro then into submission. So I'm going to give you a cheat sheet:
Step one: Don't embarrass her in front of her kids. When she asks if its good, with the kids there, just say it's good. Save everything else for later. Trying to be picky about it in front of the kids just makes you look whiny.
Step two: Assure her it was a good cake and that you appreciate the work she put into it to try and do something nice for your birthday.
Step three: Once you are away from the kids, and have assured her the cake was tasty and you appreciate her efforts, say this verbatim; "Look, I know what I'm about to say is stupid, but it's my birthday so I am legally allowed to be a whiny little bitch-baby for the day. Next time I'd like it if you did more chocolate frosting between the layers instead of vanilla. I know it's petty, but you need to understand- I'm a chocoholic with the taste buds of a spoiled 6 year old. When I say I want chocolate cake, what I mean is I want you to waterboard me with chocolate icing." Acknowledge you're being petty and dumb, but that in t he future you'd appreciate her accommodating your stupid tastes.
I mean, overall your point is correct, but you can do this sort of thing without undermining your own feelings. In step 3, just say that you'd really prefer to have the whole thing be chocolate in the future. People are allowed to ask for what they actually want.
The pickle argument is top notch. I would love spending my free time around that person.
"What if the genders were reversed" is such a tired counterpoint from the "I'm just playing devil's advocate" crowd as they tilt at windmills.
What’s wrong with the pickle argument?
Vanilla icing is disgusting and ruins my experience of cakes.