Thank you so much for this. I think I finally have a measure of peace about death in this life. I've been up for night after night, months now, worried. The concept of "soul sleep" terrified me to be quite honest. It seemed no one could really reconcile the viewpoints as you put it. I wanted to know concretely what actually happens at the crossing over, where am I spending my conscious time until the second coming and resurrection. I'm about to turn 38, so its a period of deep anxiety for me. I feel like my life is half over already, like I dont have much time left. I mean, I know I have many years ahead of me, but watching my loved ones pass makes me anxious and also deeply sad. All of this is to say, I am supremely grateful for this teaching. God bless you. God bless you in the highest in Jesus name. ❤🙏
Live every day as if it might be your last. Glad you have found some peace in understanding. Just be vigilant for His return and also that you might leave at any moment. Either in rapture or death, neither matters as to how. The faithful will be with the Lord. Shalom Aleichem
Paul lived with sickness and ill health, not to mention the lingering effects of his beatings, stoning, near drownings, and imprisonments. He had reason to be excited about the redemption of his body.
Thank you. I finally understood how it works. No one could explain it to me before in such understandable way. Thank you again very much! God bless you! Jesus resurrection is an example how resurrection works, but he died in his 33's and was dead only for 3 days. How it will work for a child who died or for an old man... what body they will have? Body of a child? Body of an old man? Would you recognise your father in his younger body? :-) Does that kind of body grow? So many unanswered questions...
The fossilization of a dinosaur bone is perhaps a good example. In one way it is the same bone, in another way it is not - the old bone has “passed away” into non-existence to make way for the much more durable (“incorruptible”) form. Another example may be the frame-off restoration of a badly broken down and rusted-out vintage automobile. If one replaces nearly every part, is it still the same car? the answer may lie in the mind of the restorer, especially if the reason He is undertaking such an i’ll-advised project is that the old car was well loved by Him, i.e. the value is not inherent but subjectively attributed. In the case of our bodies- ourselves- the value is attributed by an infinite Being who is the ground of all value, so our infinite worth is thus objective bc of the Subject by Whom we are loved.
Great explaination. But what about the unbelievers? do they sleep and not wake up until after Christ's 1000 year reign on earth and then get thrown into hell forever?
It's my understanding hell as a place isnt open yet. Those that don't believe go to a temporary place of torment, some call it "hades" in the bible. Its the opposite of our concept of heaven or "Abraham's bosom". I would look at the example of Lazarus looking at the man who died across the chasm. This is found in Luke chapter 16 verses 19-31. I would also look at the later revelation for what happens after the tribulation to those who sided with the enemy and what happens to the 'army of evil' (as I call it) during the last battle of Armageddon :) hope this helps! God bless you, my friend in Jesus name 🙏
What about the rest of humanity that don't believe in Jesus?! What will happen to them? And how long do we have to wait for Christ second coming? This sounds like a cult.
John 3:13 says only the Son ascends to Heaven, where the Father resides. So the intermediate state “ to be present w the Lord” doesn’t necessarily mean Heaven. OT speaks a lot concerning Sheol. The place of the Dead. Abraham’s bosom is an interesting revelation by Yeshua. Is this possibly be the intermediate state? I am trying to parse carefully our Hebrew influenced faith. And weed out Platonic/Greek concepts that have oozed into the Church in the first centuries, and reinforced by Augustine, and 16th century reformed theology (Augustinian). I am open to criticism, but desire continuity with Biblical theology. Any scholarly material on my leanings pro or con is most appreciated. Thank you, and God bless!
I agree with you that we don’t go to live “in heaven” at the point of death. Jesus refers to a place called Paradise. Jesus is happy to describe the separate places, one being Paradise, in Luke 16. The problem is that there is more clarity to be obtained from the original Greek, but in our English translations, these places are referred only as heaven or hell. I believe we wait in Paradise (as you suggest) until the first resurrection. Those who are in the “other part” which we might call Hades if we are ok to accept terms that the disciples used, will wait there until the second resurrection. In my understanding Sheol was the OT understanding (they had little doctrine around an afterlife)... but from the NT onwards, I believe Sheol = Paradise+Hades. That is, Abraham’s bosom is describing those two parts of Sheol. Further, I agree that no one, except Christ, is currently in heaven with the Father, but in the same way, the NT teals us that no one is In hell yet either. That comes later, after the second resurrection.
Is Paul even speaking of a disembodiment? He doeant say that. He is speaking of his present flesh and his new tent. He speaks of his next moment which is when he is resurrected. A question I have is there a necessity in the translation of those verses when it speaks of "body". Can it be the or a body? When Jesus spoke of Lazarus he says he goes to wake him from sleep while he is dead.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have a question: how would you call the resurrected body of Christ, was it a perfect body or not? The bible says His resurrected body still had the nail marks on Hid hands and the wound on His side. My reading of 1 Cor 15 is that our resurrected body is more a spiritual one than a physical one.
Jesus is no longer in the flesh, and no longer in the body He was raised in. He is a spirit, as He was before He came to earth. That is His eternal state. So the analysis is necessarily wrong. Commensurately, there will be no male or female in heaven, which precludes any bodily resurrection. Finally, to suggest that being with Christ while one is not in the body is good but not good enough, is to demean the person of the Lord. The analysis provided in the clip, is carnal.
Yes and some intelligent people believe that nothing created everything! And that there is purpose and morality in a Godless world of survival of the fittest and the heat death of the Universe. So believe the nightmare if you prefer, but you're not more rational than those who believe the existence of the universe actually has a rational explanation.
It's crazy, sure. But as long as people feel happy and do good with their spiritual truths, I think is fine if they believe in this evidence-lacking superstitions
Thank you so much for this. I think I finally have a measure of peace about death in this life. I've been up for night after night, months now, worried. The concept of "soul sleep" terrified me to be quite honest. It seemed no one could really reconcile the viewpoints as you put it. I wanted to know concretely what actually happens at the crossing over, where am I spending my conscious time until the second coming and resurrection. I'm about to turn 38, so its a period of deep anxiety for me. I feel like my life is half over already, like I dont have much time left. I mean, I know I have many years ahead of me, but watching my loved ones pass makes me anxious and also deeply sad. All of this is to say, I am supremely grateful for this teaching. God bless you. God bless you in the highest in Jesus name. ❤🙏
Live every day as if it might be your last. Glad you have found some peace in understanding. Just be vigilant for His return and also that you might leave at any moment. Either in rapture or death, neither matters as to how. The faithful will be with the Lord. Shalom Aleichem
Paul lived with sickness and ill health, not to mention the lingering effects of his beatings, stoning, near drownings, and imprisonments. He had reason to be excited about the redemption of his body.
Thank you. I finally understood how it works. No one could explain it to me before in such understandable way. Thank you again very much! God bless you!
Jesus resurrection is an example how resurrection works, but he died in his 33's and was dead only for 3 days. How it will work for a child who died or for an old man... what body they will have? Body of a child? Body of an old man? Would you recognise your father in his younger body? :-) Does that kind of body grow? So many unanswered questions...
The fossilization of a dinosaur bone is perhaps a good example. In one way it is the same bone, in another way it is not - the old bone has “passed away” into non-existence to make way for the much more durable (“incorruptible”) form. Another example may be the frame-off restoration of a badly broken down and rusted-out vintage automobile. If one replaces nearly every part, is it still the same car? the answer may lie in the mind of the restorer, especially if the reason He is undertaking such an i’ll-advised project is that the old car was well loved by Him, i.e. the value is not inherent but subjectively attributed. In the case of our bodies- ourselves- the value is attributed by an infinite Being who is the ground of all value, so our infinite worth is thus objective bc of the Subject by Whom we are loved.
I believe the question is concerning the O.T. biblical origins of life after death.
Great explaination. But what about the unbelievers? do they sleep and not wake up until after Christ's 1000 year reign on earth and then get thrown into hell forever?
It's my understanding hell as a place isnt open yet. Those that don't believe go to a temporary place of torment, some call it "hades" in the bible. Its the opposite of our concept of heaven or "Abraham's bosom". I would look at the example of Lazarus looking at the man who died across the chasm. This is found in Luke chapter 16 verses 19-31. I would also look at the later revelation for what happens after the tribulation to those who sided with the enemy and what happens to the 'army of evil' (as I call it) during the last battle of Armageddon :) hope this helps! God bless you, my friend in Jesus name 🙏
Read also NT Wright's book, The Resurrection of the Son of God.
What about the rest of humanity that don't believe in Jesus?! What will happen to them? And how long do we have to wait for Christ second coming? This sounds like a cult.
John 3:13 says only the Son ascends to Heaven, where the Father resides. So the intermediate state “ to be present w the Lord” doesn’t necessarily mean Heaven.
OT speaks a lot concerning Sheol. The place of the Dead.
Abraham’s bosom is an interesting revelation by Yeshua. Is this possibly be the intermediate state?
I am trying to parse carefully our Hebrew influenced faith.
And weed out Platonic/Greek concepts that have oozed into the Church in the first centuries, and reinforced by Augustine, and 16th century reformed theology (Augustinian). I am open to criticism, but desire continuity with Biblical theology. Any scholarly material on my leanings pro or con is most appreciated. Thank you, and God bless!
I agree with you that we don’t go to live “in heaven” at the point of death. Jesus refers to a place called Paradise. Jesus is happy to describe the separate places, one being Paradise, in Luke 16. The problem is that there is more clarity to be obtained from the original Greek, but in our English translations, these places are referred only as heaven or hell. I believe we wait in Paradise (as you suggest) until the first resurrection. Those who are in the “other part” which we might call Hades if we are ok to accept terms that the disciples used, will wait there until the second resurrection. In my understanding Sheol was the OT understanding (they had little doctrine around an afterlife)... but from the NT onwards, I believe Sheol = Paradise+Hades. That is, Abraham’s bosom is describing those two parts of Sheol. Further, I agree that no one, except Christ, is currently in heaven with the Father, but in the same way, the NT teals us that no one is In hell yet either. That comes later, after the second resurrection.
Is Paul even speaking of a disembodiment? He doeant say that. He is speaking of his present flesh and his new tent. He speaks of his next moment which is when he is resurrected.
A question I have is there a necessity in the translation of those verses when it speaks of "body". Can it be the or a body?
When Jesus spoke of Lazarus he says he goes to wake him from sleep while he is dead.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have a question: how would you call the resurrected body of Christ, was it a perfect body or not? The bible says His resurrected body still had the nail marks on Hid hands and the wound on His side. My reading of 1 Cor 15 is that our resurrected body is more a spiritual one than a physical one.
The ancient church knew of this. Paradise is not heaven. Sheol, the grave, is what the rich man saw when he died, in Luke's gospel.
Read NT Wright, "Surprised by Hope".
Why, may I ask?
Jesus is no longer in the flesh, and no longer in the body He was raised in. He is a spirit, as He was before He came to earth. That is His eternal state.
So the analysis is necessarily wrong.
Commensurately, there will be no male or female in heaven, which precludes any bodily resurrection.
Finally, to suggest that being with Christ while one is not in the body is good but not good enough, is to demean the person of the Lord.
The analysis provided in the clip, is carnal.
Intelligent people really believe this fairy tale !!
billdrumming thats because you is not a fairy tale and you are wrong
It is no fairy-tale it is the truth. Any other view makes a mockery of the resurrection of Jesus.
Yes and some intelligent people believe that nothing created everything! And that there is purpose and morality in a Godless world of survival of the fittest and the heat death of the Universe. So believe the nightmare if you prefer, but you're not more rational than those who believe the existence of the universe actually has a rational explanation.
Do you have hope in some day being able to transfer the brain into a new body? If science exists in this world then the Creator could surely do it.
It's crazy, sure. But as long as people feel happy and do good with their spiritual truths, I think is fine if they believe in this evidence-lacking superstitions