Ed, thank you for noticing Finnish aircrafts, us Finns sure love them. There were plenty of earlier designs as well. On our channel, we have interviews of several Finnish WW2 Airforce veterans. Amongst them, Fighter Ace Antti Tani! Welcome to check it out.
The Myrsky II restoration project is getting on well. At the moment they are, among other things, working on putting the skin on the airplane (aluminium on the front part of the fuselage and plywood on the rear and the wings, which are still not attached), so it's really starting to look like an airplane. Considering the starting point was a mangled steel frame, it really is a huge undertaking of manual craft and skill, as basically every single structural part has to be hand made.
D.XXI was a stable gun platform & had excellent diving characteristics, the FiAF tactics developed in the last half of 1930s focused on attacking from above & opening fire only when the pilot was sure he could hit the target, so a good diver that isn't affected by the recoil of its guns was exactly what the FiAF needed, D.XXI's greatest shortcoming was its speed, but everything else about the plane (perhaps most importantly the fact that the plane had been designed specifically for operations in rough conditions-) was good enough that it remained in service with FiAF far longer than it should have in an ideal world, that and the fact that Fokker sold Finland the plans and tooling to build the aircraft domestically, if only Finland could have bought the tooling to build Thunderbolts (I know, I know, The Jug didn't exist at the time when FiAF went shopping for the next frontline fighter in late 30s...), that would have been epic.
- Ideal for use against Soviet ground troops and lightly armored vehicles. The American engines would have been difficult to get, Wright R-1820, If I'm not mistaken.
@@gingernutpreacher There were actually plans to copy the Mosquito and fit it with DB 605-engines for Finnish air force, but the war ended before the design work was finished.
The Finns were quite underrated in the air combat department. Ilmari Juutilainen is prolly one of my favourite fighter aces during the conflicts, him and loads of other Finnish aces were just cool
@@mikepxg6406 It's a phonetic truncation and is common in some English dialects. It's an alternate spelling and pronunciation of "probably." Language has always evolved, and with the internet dialects, changes, additions, and adaptations spread faster than ever.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Some extra hints: 'y' in Finnish sounds more like 'ou' as in 'you' or 'through' and is the same for both the first and second y in Myrsky. Finnish spelling is phonetic and consistent, so you speak every letter in a word with a slight stress at the beginning of every word, so now you know how to say 'Valtion lentokonetehdas'. An English word that no Finnish person can say is 'squirrel'. Great video.
I was once involved with a Finnish woman. I seem to recall that the Pyörremyrsky is pronounced along the lines of Pir-ror-mursk. The Myrsky is Mursk, I understand. No 'ee' sound. I recall from my teens (the mid-70's), a very good article on this aircraft in the Air International magazine. This led to a fascination with the Soviet attempts to invade this country and the Finn's fight back. Incredible David and Goliath stuff on an epic scale. Apparently the Finnish execution of the battle of Suomussalmi (I think pron Sue-oor-sal-mi) is taught in the US West Point military academy to this day. Finland was the only one of the states that gained independence from Czarist Russia that remained independent post WW2. Fascinating history. Sheer bloody minded determination not to give in. Worthy of a programme all in its own right.
VL also developed an improved fighter called the "Pyorremyresky". Unfortunately, it was powered by the Daimler-Benz DB-605 engine which, after Finland "changed sides", was no longer available. However, the prototype "Pyorremyrsky" was said to have been better than the Me 109 and would have been a formidable fighter if it had been available sooner.
There were reported no glue issues when we are talking about The VL Pyörremyrsky. It seems that glue, plywood and lacquer were all better quality than before. This video is good, but It does not tell about The aeroelastic vibration that VL Myrsky suffered above 3000 meters when diving. This vibration with a poor glue quality could easily broke wings and elevators when speed exceeded 630 km/h. This problem was mostly solved after wings and rudder were strenghened. Test pilot Leutnant Hamalainen could dive with a one Myrsky around 750 km/ h without any problems. This did not solve the poor guality glue and lacquer issues. Sorry my poor English skills.
These videos about the lesser-known fighters of WW2 are fantastic. Have you considered doing one on the PZL P.11? Not only was it used by Poland at the start of the war and put up a brave fight, but it was exported to quite a number of other European countries.
Those resourceful Finns. Kinda looks like an early LaGG design. But yeah, one can imagine the pilot's horror when the plywood panels start coming off under moderate G loads.
Lesson: when you use the Tibetan "good fortune" form of the swastika in baby blue instead of the twisted form in black, you have a better chance of surviving bad times as an intact nation.
I believe that it's originally Indian 2500 BC. Symbol for goodluck and it is a symbol of a sun. But it came in Finland from Sweden when 6.3.1918 Count Eric von Rosen donated Finlands first airplane and Blue Swastika was his familys lucky symbol and to honour Count Rosen FAF adopted this symbol.
Interestingly, the crash of MY-3 on the 19th of November 1943, was one of the first, if not the first time the cause of a crash was solved utilizing a black box. MY-3 had been equipped with the Finnish "Mata-Hari" black box, developed by Veijo Hietola in 1942. Data from the black box was crucial in solving the cause of the crash. Only around 10 or so Mata-Hari units were made before the end of the war and at least one still survives in the Vapriikki Museum in Tampere, Finland.
about the Twin Wasp engines: Finland had a state-owned engine factory, but from what I hear it mostly spent the war(s) rebuilding existing engines (i.e. salvaging reusable parts from worn-out/damaged/outright destroyed engines in order to refurbish other worn-out/damaged/outright destroyed engines), I don't know what kind of machinery the factory had for making new parts, but I suspect there was a lot of working with hand-held tools.
The performance of the Finnish fliers is truly inspiring and definitely proved that quality of pilots is more important than quality of aircraft. One realizes just how experienced they were, top to bottom, when you see that guys with the seniority of a squadron commander in larger airforces were element leaders for their entire career. This also meant that new pilots were surrounded by experts. It's a pity the Western allies weren't closer with the Finns because they sure could have taught us a bunch about exploiting the strengths, while avoiding the weaknesses, of our planes.
Awesome video. That's a really great source you used from Plane's Encyclopaedia... That chap must know his stuff... Certainly not self promoting or anything. Just came across your channel, will be binging the videos.
@@XtreeM_FaiL I'm not sure if you can read but I'm pretty sure I wrote 'German', which is a language he is more likely to be familiar with than Finnish.
Finnish airplane projects usually started by student practice project and sometimes air force began supported them. Lack of materials and skilled workers caused that like half way results.
There is probably a British sitcom sketch in this story somewhere. Brit Pilot - Sorry to bother you wingman? But my left wing seems to have - um - well, vacated my aircraft. Brit Wingman - Really? Bad show. Brit Pilot - Rather. Oh bloody hell. There goes the other one. It just decided to bugger off. Any suggestions old chap? Wingman - How much of your wings are left? Pilot - Ummm...well....sort of...on the lesser side of zero I'm afraid. Wingman - That's a spot of bad luck, what? Pilot - Yeeess. Oh damn...I seem to be about to hit the ground in a rather accelerated manner. Wingman - Oh I ammm sorry. Well...remember to roll when you hit. Maybe everything will be fine. Pilot - Right oh...good advice. I'll give it a whirl. Thank you Ed. ☮
One of the ongoing issues with various marks of Messerschmidt was vibration when the nose guns fired. Later marks had two heavy machine guns plus the 20 mm cannon. There is an enormous difference between 30 cal/8 mm and 50 cal . Having 4 of them going off at the same time would I think define the word vibration. Not saying you are wrong,no indeed,but I think this was the only fighter with such a configuration over top of an engine. Probably for good reason.
@@paulmanson253 nose guns have 3 other disadvantages: complicated sinc gear, size limitations (of the gun and ammo load) and a very tight patern of shots. Fighters with all the guns in the wings can expect more hits, by firing a wider cone of shot, even with gun harmonization. _Otoh_ , wing guns require a strong wing, and the Fins limitation of building materials might have constrained this. Nose guns are also easier to aim and don't require range harmonization.
@@jlvfr Lack of engine power was the main issue as the Twin Wasp was only radial engine available at the time. Prototype was originally armed two 12,7mm guns in fuselage and four 7,7mm guns in wings, but it was changed to at first to three and later to four fuselage mounted 12,7mm guns as one of the attempts to make aircraft lighter and aerodynamically cleaner.
@@jlvfr Yes. Look up the term, Dowding spread. More hits on an airplane, but not in a critical area,do not knock down that airplane. Successful fighter pilots harmonized their guns to suit their abilities.
That part about license-built copies of the Twin Wasp from Sweden. Not possible, because there was no licensed building of Twin Wasps in Sweden. They were all reverse-engineered, and pirated. But the US was building reverse-engineered and pirated Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft guns as fast as they could, so I guess it all evens out! 🙂
i dunno about that if the US reverse engineered all those Bofors then thats literally 10's of thousands of Bofors on various mounts made during WW2. I'm certain there must have been some post war compensation to Borfors because there was a whole lot of them made.
This video proves, if nothing else, how hard it can get pronouncing certain languages XD But this whole Myrsky development makes me think of the phrase "when you try to finnish a plane".
I can't agree with you more mate if the Fins had the proper materials to build this fighter aircraft it would have pretty decently maybe making it in the top 20 maybe mid 30s category but if I was designing it it would be 2 20mm cannon and 4 machine guns+ can you please do a video on the boomerang fighter it's an Australian icon and I would love to see a video on it and your opinion of it also I wouldn't mind seeing some videos on more Swedish aircraft as well..
Regarding the engine supply problem: The USA showed a curiously ambivlent attitude towards its allies once it was forced into the war. They wouldn't supply Finland, which was allied with Germany, but they continued to do business with the German puppet government in Vichy, while either ignoring or obstructing the Free French forces. They had a blackout on the east coast in 1942, but didn't enforce it, much appreciated by U-Boat crews.....
i think you dont grasp each thing you describe was for different reasons under different circumstances.. they are not related and are not indicative of a pattern contrast that comment with the fact that 42% of everything russia used with wheels or tracks on it after 1942 came from the USA so the implication youre hinting at is both incorrect and misleading.. Finland was NEVER an ALLY of the USA during ww2. there was no treaty no lend lease.
Another excellent addition! It was the Myrsky II that saw active combat service, right? I was never sure if it ever was used; Now I know for sure. Knowing that I have the option to build a model of it in Continuation War or Lapland War markings is a nice touch too! ;)
Unfortunately for modelers, There does not seem to be plastic model kit of it available , However , AZ models seem have issued a VL Pyry PY-1 trainer that looks like a two seater Myrsky.
There is the relatively recent (2008) 1:72 scale Special Hobby kit of Myrsky II, # SH72161. Seemingly discontinued by now unfortunately, but very well might pop up on the 2nd hand market every now and then.
For context, the reconnaissance squadrons were flying for example Gloster Gladiators, Westland Lysanders and Fokker CX’s all through the wars and getting attacked by planes like Tomahawks
I would love if you could cover the B-17 Reed Project. During that project they did some pretty crazy modifications to a B-17, and it's a great story! Another suggestion is the YB-40, or the attempt to make a B-17 into an escort gunship. Keep up the good work!
"...An aircraft well past its sell-by-date, which in typical Finnish fashion was still being used effectively." Is somehow an extremely hilarious line to me. It's a bit like... "This aircraft is essentially a piece of jetsam, piece of flying junk... BUT LET'S FLY IT ANYWAY AND SEE WHERE IT TAKES US!!"
Just when you think, that finally now Ed is out of his unknown WWII planes... Ed: "Here is another one..." :) Please, do more Soviet one, and thanks for these hidden gems. You've made my own knowledge miserable.😃
I second that. Somewhat ironically, the Soviets got their wooden fighters right, although the Finns where the pioneers in manufacturing and using weather-resistant plywood. It's just that the crucial ingredient, phenolic resin, couldn't be had during the war.
brilliant vid could we see a video on the Leyland armored car, the only military vehicle built in Ireland for Ireland and used from the 30s right to the 80s
Finnish airforce motto is Qualitas Potentia Nostra - "quality is our strength". We have today 61 F/A 18 Hornet combat aircraft. We have lost 2 in accidents and 1 is already retired and dismantled. We will get 64 F-35 Lightning II fighterbombers that will eventually replace our legacy Hornets. As a small country we have no resources to produce modern military aircraft programs on our own. Even the Swedes plan to partner together with other countries in the next fighter program (after Gripen E). But back in the WW2 times planes were not yet as sophisticated.
I hope they are not so obsessed with being faithful to the original Myrsky production specifications that they are willing to use modern wood glue for the restoration.
With only one left in the world,a related issue is,should it ever be flown? Even with oh,aviation grade resorcinal glue,if anything at all goes wrong,that is a pretty big oops. Restore the thing by all means. Document each step for posterity. But fly it ? Not sure about that. The guys who took them up knowing of possible structural failure were unbelievably brave.
Fascinating plane Ed! But got to ask? The photo at 2:51 ....... WTF? I'm trying to think of a logical reason for it? (whilst also imagining the before and after) 🤔
The buffalo was a decent aircraft when used in any cold conditions as it's only real problem was overheating.... As for the fins... the factory should have requested the construction of a small aluminium plant exclusively for aviation and also a supply of at least 50 engines every 2 years to give national security of production... the outlay would have been quite minimal for the return.... as for glue problems.. they most likely over relied on glue and not stitching... as we found in scotland even with high quality glues exposure will soon defeat tem without a secondary securment method if prolonged winter conditions are encountered .. also I suspect that aircraft shelters and maintenance were neglected and could have been easily provided for with no strategic penalty simply having wooden shelters and heated areas etc.... all easily predicted... a pity given the incredible efforts by the brave pilots..
Finnish Tampella metalworking company was already producing Bristol Mercury -engines before the war, but they failed to acquire licence for newer more powerful designs, forcing the VL to design planes around imported engines. As for VL Myrsky, the war-time glue was clearly the issue as the earlier structurally similar VL Pyry trainer built from pre-war materials had no structural issues and flew until 1962.
Just shows what can be achieved if you have the will to succeed. As for speaking Finnish, I understand even other Nord struggle with the language. Anywhere damp or humid is never good for wooden aircraft. Even the otherwise excellent Mosquito had to be withdrawn from the Far East because of the effects of damp.
Thank you for the video. Interesting and I thought of how the Finns were in a somewhat similar situation that the North Vietnamese vs the United States. The NVAF had obsolete aircraft against top-of-the-line US Fighter and Fighter Bombers until they got MiG-21 fighters..
Given the amount of military support going to Finland during the Winter war (1/3 of the airforce, 40% of the anti tank cannons and only leaving a week's supply of small arms ammunition) in spite of being severely behind in their rearmaments program, I don't find it unlikely some engines could been spared the Finns.
@@johanmetreus1268 that's possible, but Sweden were forced to use captured french engines before the copied engines went in to production, I'd say that the engines that Finland would have used was from the same source...
What is considerd obsolete might be better than modern equipment. The chesna for example is a verry old design concept . even in ww2 many recon planes where of this design. sturdy , reliable safe . easy to fly.
The Finnish Swastika has of course nothing, at all, to do with the German, unreasonable use of the symbol as a Nazi symbol, but is an old Nordic symbol.
Parece-me estranho que um Pais Moderno, cuja base econômica e pesadamente focada em produtos derivados de madeira, não tivesse uma indústria química que complementasse com competência a indústria principal, e isso inclui tintas, primers surfaces, vernizes e COLAS. Mesmo quando ficou patente que não poderia depender de compras externas para defesa, e que teria de fazer seus aviões em madeira, ninguém pensou em pelo menos licenciar uma ''formula de cola'' boa para uso aeronáutico e produzi-la localmente para seu próprio uso, a Inglaterra tinha boas colas, como atesta o D.H. Mosquito, e a indústria alemã também (Um bombardeio inglês destruiu a única fábrica dessa cola na Alemanha, prejudicando a produção futura de aeronaves de madeira quando a Alemanha precisava poupar Al.)
the 13.2 was the "upgrade to the 12.7 use by USA and Finns chambered the 12.7mm version of the upgrade of this -i guess 1000 rounds per minute ara a upgrade compared to 600-850 us brownings and the upgrade could fire exploding ammo
@@ja37d-34 Except it's you whose a bit incorrect. The Wikipedia article clearly states that because Finland was already producing the 12.7mm Browning ammunition, it was decided that the new heavy machine gun would be produced with the smaller 12.7mm cartridge instead of the larger Swedish cartridge of 13.2mm.
@@ja37d-34 At no point did you make any differentiation between the M2 Browning and the newer FN Browning heavy machine gun. You only referred to the original Browning heavy machine gun as "12.7" which about as ambiguous as you can get.
The pronunciation everyone always apologizes for is fine. And you don't need to gargle bleach to get it perfect! Vodka will do in a pinch to substitute for viina :)
Gargling with bleach? Bit harsh 😳 🤣 worked with a Finnish lady years ago and she sounded like she was talking the elfin language. It helped that she looked like miss world 🌎 but you know.
Nice one, did an immediate search and discovered that the Finnish Air Force was created on the 6th March 1918, thus beating the Royal Air Force by as close as matters a month.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters I happen to be Finnish as well. The restoration project is nearly done covering the left side of the fuselage in plywood and seems to be almost done with seperate demostration wing as well. This wing when finished, will be a separate exhibition showcasing the inner mechanics of the wing and will not have the other side of the cover to let you see in. The project also has english site in case you are interested in following it firsthand, though i did not check if it has all the news as the finnish side does.
Ed, thank you for noticing Finnish aircrafts, us Finns sure love them. There were plenty of earlier designs as well. On our channel, we have interviews of several Finnish WW2 Airforce veterans. Amongst them, Fighter Ace Antti Tani! Welcome to check it out.
The Myrsky II restoration project is getting on well. At the moment they are, among other things, working on putting the skin on the airplane (aluminium on the front part of the fuselage and plywood on the rear and the wings, which are still not attached), so it's really starting to look like an airplane. Considering the starting point was a mangled steel frame, it really is a huge undertaking of manual craft and skill, as basically every single structural part has to be hand made.
I hope they are using modern glues!
@@stay_at_home_astronaut Liberal amounts of Eri keeper.
Is the correct pronounciation of VL 'Lil-dedkow'?
(Well, you know, veal ............ I'll be quiet, I promise.)
Can't wait to watch the first test flights.
Great to see that at least one is still around.
"Overweight and suffering from stability issues."
Welcome to my world my Finnish friend.
Hahaha
That was funny.
Heh heh…
I appreciate this joke.
Finland really punches above it's weight in the world.
They seem experts in taking what's available and making the best of it.
D.XXI was a stable gun platform & had excellent diving characteristics, the FiAF tactics developed in the last half of 1930s focused on attacking from above & opening fire only when the pilot was sure he could hit the target, so a good diver that isn't affected by the recoil of its guns was exactly what the FiAF needed, D.XXI's greatest shortcoming was its speed, but everything else about the plane (perhaps most importantly the fact that the plane had been designed specifically for operations in rough conditions-) was good enough that it remained in service with FiAF far longer than it should have in an ideal world, that and the fact that Fokker sold Finland the plans and tooling to build the aircraft domestically, if only Finland could have bought the tooling to build Thunderbolts (I know, I know, The Jug didn't exist at the time when FiAF went shopping for the next frontline fighter in late 30s...), that would have been epic.
Wonder what the Fins could have done with the CAC Boomerang. This rough, tough and pugnacious little fighter would have been right up their alley.
- Ideal for use against Soviet ground troops and lightly armored vehicles. The American engines would have been difficult to get, Wright R-1820, If I'm not mistaken.
@@scootergeorge9576 Actually Boomerangs were fitted with a Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp.
Alternate timeline: when the finns in the air starts speakin' aussie on a strafing run from a soviet soldier's point of view.
Or the mosquito ( with good wood glue )
@@gingernutpreacher There were actually plans to copy the Mosquito and fit it with DB 605-engines for Finnish air force, but the war ended before the design work was finished.
The Finns were quite underrated in the air combat department. Ilmari Juutilainen is prolly one of my favourite fighter aces during the conflicts, him and loads of other Finnish aces were just cool
"prolly" what sort of word is that ?
@@mikepxg6406 Mix of Parasol and Brolly, possibly 🤔😄
@@jonathansteadman7935 You *probably* got it...
Ilmari had a brother Aarne "Terror of Morocco" Juutilainen.
@@mikepxg6406 It's a phonetic truncation and is common in some English dialects. It's an alternate spelling and pronunciation of "probably."
Language has always evolved, and with the internet dialects, changes, additions, and adaptations spread faster than ever.
Thanks for this! And your "Myrsky" pronunciation is is just fine and understandable;)
Lol, that makes a change then! Many thanks :)
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Some extra hints: 'y' in Finnish sounds more like 'ou' as in 'you' or 'through' and is the same for both the first and second y in Myrsky. Finnish spelling is phonetic and consistent, so you speak every letter in a word with a slight stress at the beginning of every word, so now you know how to say 'Valtion lentokonetehdas'. An English word that no Finnish person can say is 'squirrel'. Great video.
Great stuff! Can't wait to hear your pronounciation of the DB 605 engined successor to this plane, the Pyörremyrsky. Only one ever built.
Lol I've been practicing...it ain't good ;D
I was once involved with a Finnish woman. I seem to recall that the Pyörremyrsky is pronounced along the lines of Pir-ror-mursk. The Myrsky is Mursk, I understand. No 'ee' sound.
I recall from my teens (the mid-70's), a very good article on this aircraft in the Air International magazine. This led to a fascination with the Soviet attempts to invade this country and the Finn's fight back. Incredible David and Goliath stuff on an epic scale. Apparently the Finnish execution of the battle of Suomussalmi (I think pron Sue-oor-sal-mi) is taught in the US West Point military academy to this day.
Finland was the only one of the states that gained independence from Czarist Russia that remained independent post WW2. Fascinating history. Sheer bloody minded determination not to give in. Worthy of a programme all in its own right.
ö and y are the same sound, just one is voiced further forward than the other. One of the most difficult things about spoken finnish imo. :)
Oh, pyörremyrsky has a double r also. Nice.
I am guessing Pyörremyrsky means fire storm?
VL also developed an improved fighter called the "Pyorremyresky". Unfortunately, it was powered by the Daimler-Benz DB-605 engine which, after Finland "changed sides", was no longer available. However, the prototype "Pyorremyrsky" was said to have been better than the Me 109 and would have been a formidable fighter if it had been available sooner.
Lol spoilers!
@Friendship 7 Pyorremyrsky looks like an evolved He 100 or 112. Beautiful.
The Pyörremyrsky would've just as easily fallen apart because of the poor glue.
There were reported no glue issues when we are talking about The VL Pyörremyrsky. It seems that glue, plywood and lacquer were all better quality than before. This video is good, but It does not tell about The aeroelastic vibration that VL Myrsky suffered above 3000 meters when diving. This vibration with a poor glue quality could easily broke wings and elevators when speed exceeded 630 km/h. This problem was mostly solved after wings and rudder were strenghened. Test pilot Leutnant Hamalainen could dive with a one Myrsky around 750 km/ h without any problems. This did not solve the poor guality glue and lacquer issues. Sorry my poor English skills.
@@jounipenttila9908 your english was good enough..
sadly too many of my contrymen cant speak it as well as you..
These videos about the lesser-known fighters of WW2 are fantastic. Have you considered doing one on the PZL P.11? Not only was it used by Poland at the start of the war and put up a brave fight, but it was exported to quite a number of other European countries.
Oh yes! I'll get around to it one day.
Just like your video on the P-66, another excellent one, never seen so many pics of the Myrsky in one article before, well done mate.
"Gargling blech" oof good burn. That made my day 👍
Those resourceful Finns. Kinda looks like an early LaGG design. But yeah, one can imagine the pilot's horror when the plywood panels start coming off under moderate G loads.
I was thinking at first glance the front half was like the LA-5
Lesson: when you use the Tibetan "good fortune" form of the swastika in baby blue instead of the twisted form in black, you have a better chance of surviving bad times as an intact nation.
I believe that it's originally Indian 2500 BC. Symbol for goodluck and it is a symbol of a sun. But it came in Finland from Sweden when 6.3.1918 Count Eric von Rosen donated Finlands first airplane and Blue Swastika was his familys lucky symbol and to honour Count Rosen FAF adopted this symbol.
@@FyodorUshakovSuka Thank you for that ...always wondered
The Sun cross has been invented independently all across the world, with it found in the North Germanic region since the Vendel era.
Interestingly, the crash of MY-3 on the 19th of November 1943, was one of the first, if not the first time the cause of a crash was solved utilizing a black box.
MY-3 had been equipped with the Finnish "Mata-Hari" black box, developed by Veijo Hietola in 1942. Data from the black box was crucial in solving the cause of the crash.
Only around 10 or so Mata-Hari units were made before the end of the war and at least one still survives in the Vapriikki Museum in Tampere, Finland.
If ever I'm in Finland I will have to check that out!
about the Twin Wasp engines: Finland had a state-owned engine factory, but from what I hear it mostly spent the war(s) rebuilding existing engines (i.e. salvaging reusable parts from worn-out/damaged/outright destroyed engines in order to refurbish other worn-out/damaged/outright destroyed engines), I don't know what kind of machinery the factory had for making new parts, but I suspect there was a lot of working with hand-held tools.
I very much appreciate your explanation of the interesting and different aircraft.
The performance of the Finnish fliers is truly inspiring and definitely proved that quality of pilots is more important than quality of aircraft. One realizes just how experienced they were, top to bottom, when you see that guys with the seniority of a squadron commander in larger airforces were element leaders for their entire career. This also meant that new pilots were surrounded by experts.
It's a pity the Western allies weren't closer with the Finns because they sure could have taught us a bunch about exploiting the strengths, while avoiding the weaknesses, of our planes.
I LOVE Finland !!!!
Awesome video.
That's a really great source you used from Plane's Encyclopaedia... That chap must know his stuff... Certainly not self promoting or anything.
Just came across your channel, will be binging the videos.
Another hit! Thank you Ed
Not bad!
This Storm even looks pretty good! 🙂
In Finnish, y is pronounced quite similarly to ü in German. So mürskü. From someone born in Leeds, living in Finland.
English alphabets don't the ü, so that is not very helpful.
@@XtreeM_FaiL I'm not sure if you can read but I'm pretty sure I wrote 'German', which is a language he is more likely to be familiar with than Finnish.
Finnish airplane projects usually started by student practice project and sometimes air force began supported them. Lack of materials and skilled workers caused that like half way results.
There is probably a British sitcom sketch in this story somewhere.
Brit Pilot - Sorry to bother you wingman? But my left wing seems to have - um - well, vacated my aircraft.
Brit Wingman - Really? Bad show.
Brit Pilot - Rather. Oh bloody hell. There goes the other one. It just decided to bugger off. Any suggestions old chap?
Wingman - How much of your wings are left?
Pilot - Ummm...well....sort of...on the lesser side of zero I'm afraid.
Wingman - That's a spot of bad luck, what?
Pilot - Yeeess. Oh damn...I seem to be about to hit the ground in a rather accelerated manner.
Wingman - Oh I ammm sorry. Well...remember to roll when you hit. Maybe everything will be fine.
Pilot - Right oh...good advice. I'll give it a whirl.
Thank you Ed.
☮
Personally, i find it an attractive aircraft, it has a certain ap- peel....
There are some very interesting photos of the resto project online, seems to be coming on well!
4x .50" focused on a narrow cone? That's gonna hurt, badly.
One of the ongoing issues with various marks of Messerschmidt was vibration when the nose guns fired. Later marks had two heavy machine guns plus the 20 mm cannon. There is an enormous difference between 30 cal/8 mm and 50 cal . Having 4 of them going off at the same time would I think define the word vibration. Not saying you are wrong,no indeed,but I think this was the only fighter with such a configuration over top of an engine. Probably for good reason.
@@paulmanson253 nose guns have 3 other disadvantages: complicated sinc gear, size limitations (of the gun and ammo load) and a very tight patern of shots. Fighters with all the guns in the wings can expect more hits, by firing a wider cone of shot, even with gun harmonization. _Otoh_ , wing guns require a strong wing, and the Fins limitation of building materials might have constrained this. Nose guns are also easier to aim and don't require range harmonization.
@@jlvfr Lack of engine power was the main issue as the Twin Wasp was only radial engine available at the time. Prototype was originally armed two 12,7mm guns in fuselage and four 7,7mm guns in wings, but it was changed to at first to three and later to four fuselage mounted 12,7mm guns as one of the attempts to make aircraft lighter and aerodynamically cleaner.
@@jlvfr Yes. Look up the term, Dowding spread. More hits on an airplane, but not in a critical area,do not knock down that airplane. Successful fighter pilots harmonized their guns to suit their abilities.
That part about license-built copies of the Twin Wasp from Sweden. Not possible, because there was no licensed building of Twin Wasps in Sweden. They were all reverse-engineered, and pirated. But the US was building reverse-engineered and pirated Bofors 40mm anti-aircraft guns as fast as they could, so I guess it all evens out! 🙂
i dunno about that if the US reverse engineered all those Bofors then thats literally 10's of thousands of Bofors on various mounts made during WW2. I'm certain there must have been some post war compensation to Borfors because there was a whole lot of them made.
The US made the Bofors 40mm under license...
This video proves, if nothing else, how hard it can get pronouncing certain languages XD
But this whole Myrsky development makes me think of the phrase "when you try to finnish a plane".
I can't agree with you more mate if the Fins had the proper materials to build this fighter aircraft it would have pretty decently maybe making it in the top 20 maybe mid 30s category but if I was designing it it would be 2 20mm cannon and 4 machine guns+ can you please do a video on the boomerang fighter it's an Australian icon and I would love to see a video on it and your opinion of it also I wouldn't mind seeing some videos on more Swedish aircraft as well..
This VL Myrsky sure looks like an Lavochkin La-5. I wonder if there were identification issues?
does it though ? I don't see it other than they are both radial engined machines in my eyes the LA-5 is sleeker and more stubby at the same time
The Germans also had problems with glue in wood construction, unlike allied aircraft.
Regarding the engine supply problem: The USA showed a curiously ambivlent attitude towards its allies once it was forced into the war. They wouldn't supply Finland, which was allied with Germany, but they continued to do business with the German puppet government in Vichy, while either ignoring or obstructing the Free French forces. They had a blackout on the east coast in 1942, but didn't enforce it, much appreciated by U-Boat crews.....
i think you dont grasp each thing you describe was for different reasons under different circumstances..
they are not related and are not indicative of a pattern
contrast that comment with the fact that 42% of everything russia used with wheels or tracks on it after 1942 came from the USA
so the implication youre hinting at is both incorrect and misleading..
Finland was NEVER an ALLY of the USA during ww2. there was no treaty no lend lease.
What a cool looking plane! Looks like a slightly slimmed down P-47; or a Buffalo on steroids!!
Great vid! Love Finnish planes
Another excellent addition! It was the Myrsky II that saw active combat service, right? I was never sure if it ever was used; Now I know for sure. Knowing that I have the option to build a model of it in Continuation War or Lapland War markings is a nice touch too! ;)
Correct. All Myrsky I' aircraft had been destroyed or salvaged for parts before the type saw combat.
Pyörremyrsky was what was really called for however.
Unfortunately for modelers, There does not seem to be plastic model kit of it available , However , AZ models seem have issued a VL Pyry PY-1 trainer that looks like a two seater Myrsky.
There is the relatively recent (2008) 1:72 scale Special Hobby kit of Myrsky II, # SH72161. Seemingly discontinued by now unfortunately, but very well might pop up on the 2nd hand market every now and then.
For context, the reconnaissance squadrons were flying for example Gloster Gladiators, Westland Lysanders and Fokker CX’s all through the wars and getting attacked by planes like Tomahawks
I would love if you could cover the B-17 Reed Project. During that project they did some pretty crazy modifications to a B-17, and it's a great story! Another suggestion is the YB-40, or the attempt to make a B-17 into an escort gunship. Keep up the good work!
"...An aircraft well past its sell-by-date, which in typical Finnish fashion was still being used effectively."
Is somehow an extremely hilarious line to me.
It's a bit like...
"This aircraft is essentially a piece of jetsam, piece of flying junk... BUT LET'S FLY IT ANYWAY AND SEE WHERE IT TAKES US!!"
Just when you think, that finally now Ed is out of his unknown WWII planes... Ed: "Here is another one..." :) Please, do more Soviet one, and thanks for these hidden gems. You've made my own knowledge miserable.😃
Oh yes, want to do more Soviets, never fear :D
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters I can hardly wait!!
I second that. Somewhat ironically, the Soviets got their wooden fighters right, although the Finns where the pioneers in manufacturing and using weather-resistant plywood. It's just that the crucial ingredient, phenolic resin, couldn't be had during the war.
@@peabase I'm surprised that they couldn't source it from Sweden.
@@ivancho5854 Finland couldn't even source it from Germany. And Sweden was just as cut off trade-wise.
brilliant vid
could we see a video on the Leyland armored car, the only military vehicle built in Ireland for Ireland and used from the 30s right to the 80s
Oooo.... yeah that would be cool.
Have you tried the Chieftain? Thatd be right up his street I'd think.
Is it this vehicle? th-cam.com/video/M4d5-Q6vbQM/w-d-xo.html
Finnish airforce motto is Qualitas Potentia Nostra - "quality is our strength". We have today 61 F/A 18 Hornet combat aircraft. We have lost 2 in accidents and 1 is already retired and dismantled. We will get 64 F-35 Lightning II fighterbombers that will eventually replace our legacy Hornets. As a small country we have no resources to produce modern military aircraft programs on our own. Even the Swedes plan to partner together with other countries in the next fighter program (after Gripen E). But back in the WW2 times planes were not yet as sophisticated.
Please do a video on any FW 190!
I’m sure there’s plenty of strange prototypes to look at :)
When are you going to do a video on the Finnish built Humu wooden clone of the Brewster Buffalo, that was powered by the Soviet M-103 radial engine??
Ooooo...one day ;)
I hope they are not so obsessed with being faithful to the original Myrsky production specifications that they are willing to use modern wood glue for the restoration.
With only one left in the world,a related issue is,should it ever be flown? Even with oh,aviation grade resorcinal glue,if anything at all goes wrong,that is a pretty big oops. Restore the thing by all means. Document each step for posterity. But fly it ? Not sure about that. The guys who took them up knowing of possible structural failure were unbelievably brave.
OK, off topic but the Drachinifel statement about soviet aircraft carriers and the Finns,seems appropriate, during this
Never underestimate the Finnish 'Sisu'...
The aircraft at 5.51 looks like it's being flown by a border collie!
What, you didn't know Lassie could pilot an aircraft. He's not just there to bark when someone falls down the well. 😁
5:51
Yeah, brother! Finland time!
Fascinating plane Ed! But got to ask? The photo at 2:51 ....... WTF? I'm trying to think of a logical reason for it? (whilst also imagining the before and after) 🤔
i guess in this way they can shoot at a target a certain distance in front of the plane and adjust the gunsight.
maybe testing the guns. Seen a few pictures of planes with their tails propped up to horizontally fire the guns at a ground target to foresight them.
I would guess adjusting the guns and propellers, as all was synchronized through center of prop nose
Yes, just testing The machine Guns at Mensuvaara airfield. Now this airfield situates in Russia near Lake Ladoga.
The buffalo was a decent aircraft when used in any cold conditions as it's only real problem was overheating....
As for the fins... the factory should have requested the construction of a small aluminium plant exclusively for aviation and also a supply of at least 50 engines every 2 years to give national security of production... the outlay would have been quite minimal for the return.... as for glue problems.. they most likely over relied on glue and not stitching... as we found in scotland even with high quality glues exposure will soon defeat tem without a secondary securment method if prolonged winter conditions are encountered .. also I suspect that aircraft shelters and maintenance were neglected and could have been easily provided for with no strategic penalty simply having wooden shelters and heated areas etc.... all easily predicted... a pity given the incredible efforts by the brave pilots..
Finnish Tampella metalworking company was already producing Bristol Mercury -engines before the war, but they failed to acquire licence for newer more powerful designs, forcing the VL to design planes around imported engines. As for VL Myrsky, the war-time glue was clearly the issue as the earlier structurally similar VL Pyry trainer built from pre-war materials had no structural issues and flew until 1962.
Perhaps the stability issues could be the result of too small a tail Finn? Ok, ill see myself out....
A aircraft that was never really finished
"Finnished" lol
Is it just me or does this aircraft look like La-5? Any chance the Soviets saw this aircraft prior to developing the La-5?
The La-5 is a re-engined Lagg-3
Glue only works in favorable temps. We were talking about Finland , right?
Just shows what can be achieved if you have the will to succeed. As for speaking Finnish, I understand even other Nord struggle with the language.
Anywhere damp or humid is never good for wooden aircraft. Even the otherwise excellent Mosquito had to be withdrawn from the Far East because of the effects of damp.
The British sent their D.H. "Hornets" to the Far East, where they duly rotted.
Indeed. They had to keep the Beaufighter flying there.
a nice looking plane...............
Bravo ! :-)
Thank you for the video. Interesting and I thought of how the Finns were in a somewhat similar situation that the North Vietnamese vs the United States. The NVAF had obsolete aircraft against top-of-the-line US Fighter and Fighter Bombers until they got MiG-21 fighters..
Very similar to the CAC Boomerang story.
Alas even the Mona Lisa had a crooked smile.
Surprised that the Finns did not obtain several of the aircraft types being built in Sweden during the war.
The glue issue the Finns had, sounds like a corollary of the 'for want of a nail... issue.
Extremely tough troops with a pension for sauna. I enjoyed working with them in the Balkans.
damn ed! how do you find this stuff?
Sweden didn't have the capacity to fill it's own needs of Twin Wasp's, so it is unlikely that Sweden would have sold engines to Finland
Given the amount of military support going to Finland during the Winter war (1/3 of the airforce, 40% of the anti tank cannons and only leaving a week's supply of small arms ammunition) in spite of being severely behind in their rearmaments program, I don't find it unlikely some engines could been spared the Finns.
@@johanmetreus1268 that's possible, but Sweden were forced to use captured french engines before the copied engines went in to production, I'd say that the engines that Finland would have used was from the same source...
@@hfl7393 , I need to find some better sources, none of those I encountered goes into detail with this :(
All engines for Myrsky came from Germany
Can you do a video on the Swedish j22 and j21
One day...:)
make video about mroko-morane
It's on the agenda, never fear.
What is considerd obsolete might be better than modern equipment. The chesna for example is a verry old design concept . even in ww2 many recon planes where of this design. sturdy , reliable safe . easy to fly.
I think original name is "TUISKU" WHICH IS high wind snowflakes or ice towards faces.
Top channel . Want to stop big mouth , know it all's , in their tracks ? Well , this channel is like garlic to a vampire on a full moon .
Time for a coffee break!!
Glue, so who knew? How did the British get it right with the Mosquito while the Finns and Germans had planes literally flying apart?
They were able to import the ingredients of epoxy glue, I presume.
Probably just not enough resources?
The Finnish Swastika has of course nothing, at all, to do with the German, unreasonable use of the symbol as a Nazi symbol, but is an old Nordic symbol.
I swear to my mighty socks i just heard "and the Nazi trend of the aircraft to come apart under pressure"
(9:05) ......if it was meant, it was mint!
Attempting Finnish pronunciation is very doable, just take it easy on the sauce
1:12. Yes my Finn friends won't think that is funny, I think it's great. AZ.USA
Parece-me estranho que um Pais Moderno, cuja base econômica e pesadamente focada em produtos derivados de madeira, não tivesse uma indústria química que complementasse com competência a indústria principal, e isso inclui tintas, primers surfaces, vernizes e COLAS. Mesmo quando ficou patente que não poderia depender de compras externas para defesa, e que teria de fazer seus aviões em madeira, ninguém pensou em pelo menos licenciar uma ''formula de cola'' boa para uso aeronáutico e produzi-la localmente para seu próprio uso, a Inglaterra tinha boas colas, como atesta o D.H. Mosquito, e a indústria alemã também (Um bombardeio inglês destruiu a única fábrica dessa cola na Alemanha, prejudicando a produção futura de aeronaves de madeira quando a Alemanha precisava poupar Al.)
It looks pretty handsome and a sound project...too bad it had those structural issues.
...for wooden planes the glue is most critical...
...mosquito...
4:35, I think the wife shares the same airframe
If you needed help pronouncing some of the Finnish names, I could have volunteered to help you :D
Wood you believe it ! The construction problems finnished it off ! .....sorry Ed !
Considering arent the best planes the modified and upgraded. Mostly all new designs suffers.
Those MGs are not the 12.7s but the 13.2s that Sweden used and gacve the blueprints for to the Finns. Who rechambreed them.
the 13.2 was the "upgrade to the 12.7 use by USA and Finns chambered the 12.7mm version of the upgrade of this -i guess 1000 rounds per minute ara a upgrade compared to 600-850 us brownings and the upgrade could fire exploding ammo
@@jari2018 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse_d%27Avion_Browning_-_F.N._Calibre_13,2_mm
That one. So you are a bit incorrect there.
@@ja37d-34 Except it's you whose a bit incorrect. The Wikipedia article clearly states that because Finland was already producing the 12.7mm Browning ammunition, it was decided that the new heavy machine gun would be produced with the smaller 12.7mm cartridge instead of the larger Swedish cartridge of 13.2mm.
@@MrFinnishFury That´s not the point. And I mentioned that in the first post. It is NOT an M2 Browning, it is a different MG.
@@ja37d-34 At no point did you make any differentiation between the M2 Browning and the newer FN Browning heavy machine gun. You only referred to the original Browning heavy machine gun as "12.7" which about as ambiguous as you can get.
All you need to do to learn to pronounce Finnish words and names properly is watch every episode of the Moomins 20 times in a row.
The pronunciation everyone always apologizes for is fine. And you don't need to gargle bleach to get it perfect! Vodka will do in a pinch to substitute for viina :)
The Finns were good, but claims should never be taken at face value - not even Finnish claims.
The fin was too small...
Gargling with bleach? Bit harsh 😳 🤣 worked with a Finnish lady years ago and she sounded like she was talking the elfin language. It helped that she looked like miss world 🌎 but you know.
The Finns had the first independent Airforce in the world.
Nice one, did an immediate search and discovered that the Finnish Air Force was created on the 6th March 1918, thus beating the Royal Air Force by as close as matters a month.
2 views, damn i'm early.
Yep, just gone live :)
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters I happen to be Finnish as well.
The restoration project is nearly done covering the left side of the fuselage in plywood and seems to be almost done with seperate demostration wing as well. This wing when finished, will be a separate exhibition showcasing the inner mechanics of the wing and will not have the other side of the cover to let you see in.
The project also has english site in case you are interested in following it firsthand, though i did not check if it has all the news as the finnish side does.
Sanoisin että, torille.
Just for safety I feel forced to tell you as a Finn that myrsky = storm :)
“Gargling bleach” is that a mistranslation of gargling vodka because that seems to be the Finnish pastime if My Summer Car is any indication
🛫🚀✈
*SAKKIJARVEN POLKKA INTENSIFIES!*
And then it got worse (Finish Edition)
Myrsky; pronounce the y like the o in Moose.
Wtf?